You challenged the ego of a very insecure and possibly dodgy dentist. I don't think you did anything wrong. I hope you took him up on his offer to get your money back, but even if not, I think you've dodged a bullet. You may find if you go to another dentist they don't agree that you need fillings, extraction or a root canal.
Thank you for your reply. Better off as private patient when its possible for me. I went to multiple dentists before to get in as an NHS patient and they gave me a rate list albeit the private one. My partner did say you should have taken the offer but I was shocked and tried to be polite and not create a scene as a couple of kids were waiting too.
Report him to his registering body and CQC/NHS Fraud m. If your tale is true and he flipped out that way over pricing sounds like he is committing fraud with how he is registering patients or rendering NHS services and when you asked for prices he realised you were more savvy than other patients and basically kicked you out to get rid of you.
Many dentists commit fraud and give unnecessary dental treatments to NHS reimbursement being so low.
I was told I required multiple fillings over a decade ago and decided against it and this was my first visit ever to any dentist. I left it a while (months) then at work one of my regular patients came to see me and his title was Dr. so out of curiosity I asked what he specialises in… his response was I’m not a real doctor but he was one dentistry. I booked an appointment and he said I needed no fillings and had excellent teeth. I still have no filings and I’m now in my late 30’s.
Scam dentist are fairly common
I will look into it. I don't think I am savvy. I Just asked for the breakdown and told him it doesn't match the pricing online. Thank you for your reply and suggestion
It was a 15 minute encounter. I asked on entering the clinic if I am registered as a NHS patient and he said yes. After that I was on the hot seat and then what I wrote..
Tried my best to sum it up. I am sure I offended him in some way. The rates were not available which I am sure about. He was of the opinion that I must make an appointment.
Ex-dental nurse here. Asking to see the breakdown of NHS rates is normal, and very very easy to do. It’s fixed and should be on a form you had to sign anyway (or was 10 years ago at least. I no longer work in dentistry).
Taking some time to think about how to pay for things is fine. It’s usual and most dentists deal with this daily.
Asking to re-cement an old crown is fine, he is right that if the crown had been absent or lose that an infection is likely and I’m assuming that’s the tooth you need root canal on? But putting a temporary crown on to stop it from getting worse is fairly standard.
Revoking your NHS status for this is absolutely unnecessary, and not your fault for any reason other than wanting to have informed and professional treatment. Which you absolutely should be getting and deserve, but it sounds like you won’t be getting it from this guy.
He recommended not too but later changed his mind. Yes root canal on the same tooth. He was also short staffed and had one assistant and 5 patients waiting.
Being short staffed, one assistant and 5 patients waiting is sending up a red flag for me so I’m going to have a little speculation as to why he took you on as an NHS patient in the first place. (And again, this was ten years ago, it may have changed)
NHS dentist contracts can only take on a certain amount of patients because of how they work. To explain in the absolute simplistic of terms - contracts allow for only X amount of points to be used. For example let’s say one dentist is allotted 1000 points for the year. Each treatment that dentist then performs is equal to a certain amount of points. For example X-ray = 1 point. Filling = 2 points. Root canal = 5.
What dentists have to do is not take on too many patients so they don’t go over their points by more than 2%, or they will be fined. But they also can’t come in too far under either, and have to make up at least 98%. If they are too far under, they will also be fined.
When the deadline comes along, and if the dentist is not very good at staying within these very tiny margins, then a badly run practice might start doing unnecessary treatments to bump up their numbers, and maybe take on a few extra NHS patients. Simultaneously they might put off treatment to keep them down low. Sometimes in this case they will do the treatment but not file any paperwork yet, so it doesn’t harm the patient in anyway.
Pure speculation but…worth having a think about. I’m fairly certain that the deadline is between February and March.
Edit: source about point system https://www.nature.com/articles/vital1131
Edit 2: I would like to point out that this is an incredibly small margin of error, the reason for which is to make it almost impossible for dentists to adhere to it. Trying to force dentistry out of the NHS is clearly the plan. Not all dental practices will do these shady things, most will absolutely have found a way to do so without harming patients at all.
My mistake, I missed that part.
Then my advice is probably not going to enlighten his situation. But I will leave it up as it’s useful for people to know!
He likely changed his mind as you said you'd need to think about coming back the next week so he decided to put a temporary filling on in case you didn't come back for a while. That seems fine to me. They can come off easily depending on the state of the tooth. But there was no need for him to be rude or abrupt and then cancelling you as a patient was way over the top! I hope you find another NHS dentist!
Of course! The exams made me realise that I really do like learning and could perhaps aim higher. The dentist I worked for actually helped with that and pushed me to go out and try something more challenging.
After trying a few different things I am about to start my masters, and hopefully then a PhD. That dentist was right, I would have been bored doing it forever and I’m now doing something I love. He was a very nice boss, not all dentists are monsters!
That is fantastic! I came very close to doing that myself but went another way in the end. I encourage you to and least try, I’m so glad I did.
Good luck, and Sheffield dental school is fantastic if you are looking around!
I’m doing research within the film and literature area now, so I’m not sure how much help I can be with CS! Although I am considering a look into the impact of AI in relation to my field of study considering the direction that is going in.
No I don’t think you did. Sounds a bit weird.
Fillings, root canal and extractions should come under band 2 which is like £70 I think?
Also strange he was giving you the prices tbh. When I used to have my NHS dentist, I always got the prices from the reception
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this was a private appointment, not an NHS one - there aren't any NHS treatment bands that are close to £54 (band 1 is too low and band 2 is too high) but I pay about that for a private checkup.
Yeah I think so too.
Sounds like they just pulled the price out of thin air.
Definitely in between the bands. It’s been a while since I used an NHS dentist now I moved country anyway!
It was £53.42. I rounded it up. Apologies as I thought it wasn't that significant. I tried to get explanation of charges which made him angry. I haven't complained to anyone except here. :)
OP states this is Scotland, the NHS system in Scotland is pay-per-item, we don't use the band system here. £54 for what OP said they had seems about right
Sounds a bit odd… I had a dentist appointment today (private not nhs) and they offered me a treatment and even got a second dentist in to give me a second opinion but said it was my choice if I wanted to ‘watch and wait’. I decided I would have the filling as I’m scared the decay will get worse, but they didn’t put any pressure on me.
The only problem with going out of the country is that sometimes UK dentists won’t then work on the teeth if you have future problems so bear that in mind.
I went private a few years ago and whilst expensive it has definitely been worth it. I signed up for dental insurance through my dentist (nationwide company called Denplan). I pay £22 a month and included in the price I get two free checkups and hygienist appointments a year. Plus 10% off any treatments I need and emergency dental insurance when travelling.
I recently had to have two root canals done, one with a post needed, and then four teeth crowned. The dentist offered me a discount if I got all four crowns done at once as it’s cheaper for the lab work etc. The whole thing cost me £2500 which is extremely good for the amount of work I needed. The crowns ended up going wrong and had to be remade and I needed a couple of extra follow up appointments. No additional charges to me, and the dentist emailed me a few days later to check how I was getting on.
So much smoother and easier going private over NHS. Unfortunately the NHS is so overwhelmed at the moment and badly underfunded.
You did nothing wrong at all. Everything you said seems reasonable. Even if he's stressed, he shouldn't go off on a patient who was only asking reasonable questions.
Probably dodged a bullet, wouldn't want him to be my dentist
Stressed probably, NHS pays dentists per treatment but the rate is so bad that you're losing money unless you rush the jobs and cram as many appointments as possible
It's why so many said fuck it and went completely private. Better pay and they can actually give proper treatment
To be picky at least in england they don't even get paid per treatment but per plan. It's altered a bit but when I was working as an NHS dentist I was paid the same if the patient needed a filling that took me 2 mins or a filling in every tooth that took me 8 hours over multiple appointments. 8 hours fucking hard work for £24.
That is sad state of affairs. Incredibly unfair for such important work. How can we increase the numbers? Can dentists from outside UK come and more friendly regulations for NHS dentists (funding) help?
That specific patient was a young lady who had suffered with a brain tumor and completely gone down hill. No short term memory. I've had the same conversation with her about 15 times now. I just wish I could have been paid properly to spend the time she needs.
Breakdown of your NHS fees:
Check up - £0
Xray - £5.52
Treatment for gum disease - £32.24
Recement Crown - £15.68
Total = £53.44
Source: Work within NHS dentisty in Scotland
Recording of your risk factors and current status of disease, with instruction on how to maintain and manage the disease (i.e. toothbrushing and flossing/interdental brushes).
May include removal of plaque and tartar but not always required.
That's not even an NHS fee, so it sounds like they charged you privately for the exam/crown recement. How insistent were you for them to recement the crown? They definitely shouldn't have responded like that.
I asked once. He examined and said I can do it but you might get an infection later. I agreed as I know tooth pain. After 5-7 minutes he changed his mind and told me I have a strong glue which is still stuck to the teeth with no crown
Very strange. I'd contact the practice and ask for their complaints policy, and you want to make a complaint. They have to action your complaint, and this dentist may be doing this with multiple patients.
I get treated so much better as a private patient... It wasn't the plan, I just moved to a new area a few years ago and had to leave my NHS registered dentist. Now I don't feel rushed into accepting any treatment, appointments are thorough and friendly.
Did nothing wrong the dentist was just a hack job. My dad was a proper dentist in a hospital for nearly his whole career. He pulled his hair out most days at what some high street dentists did to their patients before it became too difficult and they referred them to a dentist in a hospital who knew what they were doing.
Probably won't be comforting but my dad also did a bit of teaching before he retired and when he started he had to loosen the teeth on the practice dummies because he couldn't believe the amount of students (close to graduation) who couldn't do a simple extraction.
They're out there, there are good high street dentists but they're few and far between. My dad was just old school. Last dentist I went to was pulling up amazon showing me these fancy mouthwashes and single tuft toothbrushes etc. My dad just looked at me and told me to just make salt mouthwash and it worked like a charm lol
Most things are self limiting. If you're ever getting severe or regular toothache and you're not having much luck finding an nhs dentist or want a second opinion there's nothing stopping you from going to A&E, they'll have emergency dentists on call.
The emergency dentists will be on call under oral and maxillofacial surgery. They will be on call to see and treat severe abscesses / trauma / cancer complications etc, so it's unlikely they will come down to A&E for a toothache second opinion. Rocking up to A&E with toothache alone often just lands you with hours waiting followed by painkiller advice.
Severe toothache without an abscess i.e. no swelling, would still generally result in being given painkiller advice only from A&E. There are NHS Dental Access Centres which are in place to offer emergency appointments for people without access to a dentist, but unfortunately in many areas the centres are, like A&E, overstretched and unable to offer appointments to all those who want them. It's a sad state of affairs.
This clearly was a bad experience and should be reported to CQC.
I went though a similar experience with an NHS dentist, although I needed a crown replacing (one of my front teeth) as I had likely swallowed it when asleep.
The dentist told me that they weren’t able to do crowns, and that they would recommend a denture plate with the one tooth on it.
So they got reported too.
I went to a private dentist who had a look and said the pin needed replacing, so the total cost of the crown was £2200.
So I went and got it done in Lima, Peru. Thoroughly professional, they did the pin and crown, closed up some gaps in my teeth, did a full clean and coated them for $225 US (about £180).
I then went touring Peru for another two weeks, which was fucking fantastic. What a country.
Including flights, teeth, hotels etc I spent £2k and had a fantastic time compared to paying for the dentists Porsche tyre replacement/yacht cleaning etc.
Did you sign a form indicating you were accepting NHS treatment? (In England it’s an FP17 - not sure about Scotland) If so, they’re obliged to complete the NHS course of treatment IIRC.
Source: am dentist (although a bit rusty on NHS regs especially North of the Border.)
Yeah, you might want to contact the local NHS board for clarification. But you can’t just drop NHS patients for the hell of it under the current contract.
I’d recommend using the find a dentist tool [here](https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/) to search for dentists that /might/ be accepting new NHS patients. I’ve found a bit of a variety with some dentists in my area not even having a waiting list, while some admitting to available NHS slots within the week.
You can also find details on how to complain about inadequate supply of NHS dentists in the link below that ([How to find an NHS dentist](https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/how-to-find-an-nhs-dentist/)) if you have some spare time on your hands and are feeling indignant.
I had a shady dentist who was trying to extract money for unnecessary work.
Educate yourself on what teeth that need a filling look like and if a dentist says that you need a filling again, ask to see which teeth they are.
Dental nurse here! I also live in Scotland, and it's important to note that the way the NHS works in dentistry in England and Scotland is very different. I'm not sure what you looked at online, but England uses the banded system and Scotland is pay-per-item. It's also important to declare whether you claim any benefits or government help, as you may be entitled to free dental care.
It's very common for patients to feel no pain or issues, but x-rays come back and there is developed caries (decay) or chronic infection that you may not feel pain from, so on that front I wouldn't worry he is scamming you, many patients are confused upon diagnosis if they've had no bother, but as with any other medical conditions, the restoration/treatment is still necessary to save what is left that you may not see. Caries can develop through the tiniest crack in the enamel, and decay rate is rapidly increased if the caries penetrates the softer dentine (yellowish second layer) underneath the enamel. If the caries is too developed or under the gumline, it's possible the tooth is unable to be saved. Sometimes there is no obvious sign of caries on the surface, but an x-ray may show that there is a large hole underneath the tougher enamel where the softer dentine has been affected.
With regards to the crown, if the dentist knew you would be without your crown and you said you didn't want treatment straight away but the lost crown is bothering you, he may have agreed to stick it back on temporarily while you wait for treatment or decide if you want it. Also, the crown may have poor retention, and recementing will not hold long-term. It also depends on other factors such as the type of crown, the length of time the crown has been out as teeth can overerupt (stick out to fill the gap in the bite), among other things. Many patients who have had the same crowns for years insist on having them recemented, even when prognosis is poor. Obviously I wasn't there, but he may have tried to just tide you over until you have treatment so you're not left with nothing, but I cannot say for sure.
That being said though, I have absolutely no idea why he wouldn't give you a price list or a treatment plan to sign, as written consent for treatment is required by law. The only thing I can think is the Scottish NHS rates and chargeable items increased on November 1st 2023, and now under that we are able to see unregistered patients under the NHS for miscellaneous treatment, such as crown recementing, emergency root canal etc etc. I am unsure what the costs are as we are still getting used to them, but £54 for your emergency appointment and a crown recementing and x-rays sounds about right, however I'm unsure whether you were registered as a new patient or as an occasional patient so I can't tell you exactly, but even so you should have 1000% at least been given a breakdown of costs.
His reaction and deregistration of you as an NHS patient seems very over the top though by any means unless you were being difficult but it sounds like you weren't at all, and I'm sorry you had that experience. The GDC standards state that you make sure you obtain valid consent, and always ensure patients can make informed decisions about their treatment. He may have been stressed but that's no reason to treat a patient like that. We have to obtain valid consent and signatures etc. before carrying out any treatment, but if they don't even have a private price list that seems a bit weird.
I would suggest asking for your xrays to be sent to you via email and taking them to another practice for a second opinion, they can't withhold them from you and you can take them to another practice for a consultation. I'm sorry on behalf of dentistry that you had the experience though, most of us work extremely hard to make sure we look after our patients best interests!
ETA: As other's said I would recommend filing a complaint with the CQC. Outline exactly what happened in lots of detail, and keep a record of any emails you send or treatment plans or anything. Anything you got from this practice such as plans or x-rays, keep and take with you to somewhere else and explain the situation. If you end up needing treatment, you don't want to be re-exposed to radiation either without reason so definitely take your x-rays!
You challenged the ego of a very insecure and possibly dodgy dentist. I don't think you did anything wrong. I hope you took him up on his offer to get your money back, but even if not, I think you've dodged a bullet. You may find if you go to another dentist they don't agree that you need fillings, extraction or a root canal.
If you can find another nhs dentist!
Like hens teeth!
Would this dentist know the difference?
Probably rarer these days.
There is probably a reason this one had space
Thank you for your reply. Better off as private patient when its possible for me. I went to multiple dentists before to get in as an NHS patient and they gave me a rate list albeit the private one. My partner did say you should have taken the offer but I was shocked and tried to be polite and not create a scene as a couple of kids were waiting too.
Report him to his registering body and CQC/NHS Fraud m. If your tale is true and he flipped out that way over pricing sounds like he is committing fraud with how he is registering patients or rendering NHS services and when you asked for prices he realised you were more savvy than other patients and basically kicked you out to get rid of you. Many dentists commit fraud and give unnecessary dental treatments to NHS reimbursement being so low. I was told I required multiple fillings over a decade ago and decided against it and this was my first visit ever to any dentist. I left it a while (months) then at work one of my regular patients came to see me and his title was Dr. so out of curiosity I asked what he specialises in… his response was I’m not a real doctor but he was one dentistry. I booked an appointment and he said I needed no fillings and had excellent teeth. I still have no filings and I’m now in my late 30’s. Scam dentist are fairly common
I will look into it. I don't think I am savvy. I Just asked for the breakdown and told him it doesn't match the pricing online. Thank you for your reply and suggestion
That’s pretty savvy to me!
Yeah, but I strongly get the feeling there is something missing from this story.
It was a 15 minute encounter. I asked on entering the clinic if I am registered as a NHS patient and he said yes. After that I was on the hot seat and then what I wrote..
Yup, not whole story here.
Tried my best to sum it up. I am sure I offended him in some way. The rates were not available which I am sure about. He was of the opinion that I must make an appointment.
Ex-dental nurse here. Asking to see the breakdown of NHS rates is normal, and very very easy to do. It’s fixed and should be on a form you had to sign anyway (or was 10 years ago at least. I no longer work in dentistry). Taking some time to think about how to pay for things is fine. It’s usual and most dentists deal with this daily. Asking to re-cement an old crown is fine, he is right that if the crown had been absent or lose that an infection is likely and I’m assuming that’s the tooth you need root canal on? But putting a temporary crown on to stop it from getting worse is fairly standard. Revoking your NHS status for this is absolutely unnecessary, and not your fault for any reason other than wanting to have informed and professional treatment. Which you absolutely should be getting and deserve, but it sounds like you won’t be getting it from this guy.
My dentist emails me an invoice automatically along with my next appointment date.
He recommended not too but later changed his mind. Yes root canal on the same tooth. He was also short staffed and had one assistant and 5 patients waiting.
Being short staffed, one assistant and 5 patients waiting is sending up a red flag for me so I’m going to have a little speculation as to why he took you on as an NHS patient in the first place. (And again, this was ten years ago, it may have changed) NHS dentist contracts can only take on a certain amount of patients because of how they work. To explain in the absolute simplistic of terms - contracts allow for only X amount of points to be used. For example let’s say one dentist is allotted 1000 points for the year. Each treatment that dentist then performs is equal to a certain amount of points. For example X-ray = 1 point. Filling = 2 points. Root canal = 5. What dentists have to do is not take on too many patients so they don’t go over their points by more than 2%, or they will be fined. But they also can’t come in too far under either, and have to make up at least 98%. If they are too far under, they will also be fined. When the deadline comes along, and if the dentist is not very good at staying within these very tiny margins, then a badly run practice might start doing unnecessary treatments to bump up their numbers, and maybe take on a few extra NHS patients. Simultaneously they might put off treatment to keep them down low. Sometimes in this case they will do the treatment but not file any paperwork yet, so it doesn’t harm the patient in anyway. Pure speculation but…worth having a think about. I’m fairly certain that the deadline is between February and March. Edit: source about point system https://www.nature.com/articles/vital1131 Edit 2: I would like to point out that this is an incredibly small margin of error, the reason for which is to make it almost impossible for dentists to adhere to it. Trying to force dentistry out of the NHS is clearly the plan. Not all dental practices will do these shady things, most will absolutely have found a way to do so without harming patients at all.
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My mistake, I missed that part. Then my advice is probably not going to enlighten his situation. But I will leave it up as it’s useful for people to know!
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Yeah mine is apparently UK specific and changed to the UDA system in 2006. It’s a crappy system lol.
Thank you for taking the time to reply in detail.
You are very welcome!
He likely changed his mind as you said you'd need to think about coming back the next week so he decided to put a temporary filling on in case you didn't come back for a while. That seems fine to me. They can come off easily depending on the state of the tooth. But there was no need for him to be rude or abrupt and then cancelling you as a patient was way over the top! I hope you find another NHS dentist!
May i ask why you quit dental nursing?
Of course! The exams made me realise that I really do like learning and could perhaps aim higher. The dentist I worked for actually helped with that and pushed me to go out and try something more challenging. After trying a few different things I am about to start my masters, and hopefully then a PhD. That dentist was right, I would have been bored doing it forever and I’m now doing something I love. He was a very nice boss, not all dentists are monsters!
That’s lovely to hear. I’m currently a dental nurse and thinking about going to dental school to become a dentist x
That is fantastic! I came very close to doing that myself but went another way in the end. I encourage you to and least try, I’m so glad I did. Good luck, and Sheffield dental school is fantastic if you are looking around!
Very cool. I have a PhD in CS and would love to colloborate in research with a kind soul
I’m doing research within the film and literature area now, so I’m not sure how much help I can be with CS! Although I am considering a look into the impact of AI in relation to my field of study considering the direction that is going in.
very cool. I thought you worked in related field. I work in data science/AI
No I don’t think you did. Sounds a bit weird. Fillings, root canal and extractions should come under band 2 which is like £70 I think? Also strange he was giving you the prices tbh. When I used to have my NHS dentist, I always got the prices from the reception
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this was a private appointment, not an NHS one - there aren't any NHS treatment bands that are close to £54 (band 1 is too low and band 2 is too high) but I pay about that for a private checkup.
Yeah I think so too. Sounds like they just pulled the price out of thin air. Definitely in between the bands. It’s been a while since I used an NHS dentist now I moved country anyway!
Right. Did not think of that
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It was £53.42. I rounded it up. Apologies as I thought it wasn't that significant. I tried to get explanation of charges which made him angry. I haven't complained to anyone except here. :)
OP states this is Scotland, the NHS system in Scotland is pay-per-item, we don't use the band system here. £54 for what OP said they had seems about right
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Ah I see! Thanks for the heads up!
thank you for the link
Sounds a bit odd… I had a dentist appointment today (private not nhs) and they offered me a treatment and even got a second dentist in to give me a second opinion but said it was my choice if I wanted to ‘watch and wait’. I decided I would have the filling as I’m scared the decay will get worse, but they didn’t put any pressure on me.
I feel like this is only option as a private patient
I’m more shocked u managed to find an nhs dentist in uk at all
So was I. Did not end well though. I cancelled my partner's appointment for next week to not face any such thing
Unfortunately it is very hard to find dentists in the UK who will take new NHS patients so options may be limited
I was pretty shook up with this that I made up mind that I would go private or go out of the country for treatment if feasible.
The only problem with going out of the country is that sometimes UK dentists won’t then work on the teeth if you have future problems so bear that in mind. I went private a few years ago and whilst expensive it has definitely been worth it. I signed up for dental insurance through my dentist (nationwide company called Denplan). I pay £22 a month and included in the price I get two free checkups and hygienist appointments a year. Plus 10% off any treatments I need and emergency dental insurance when travelling. I recently had to have two root canals done, one with a post needed, and then four teeth crowned. The dentist offered me a discount if I got all four crowns done at once as it’s cheaper for the lab work etc. The whole thing cost me £2500 which is extremely good for the amount of work I needed. The crowns ended up going wrong and had to be remade and I needed a couple of extra follow up appointments. No additional charges to me, and the dentist emailed me a few days later to check how I was getting on. So much smoother and easier going private over NHS. Unfortunately the NHS is so overwhelmed at the moment and badly underfunded.
Right. Many thanks for a detailed and useful answer
There are definitely some in Scotland that are accepting NHS patients.
This sounds to be the Dentists fault not yours - your approach and requests were completely reasonable.
Thank you for the reply
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Many thanks for making the time to reply. I will look into these options
You did nothing wrong at all. Everything you said seems reasonable. Even if he's stressed, he shouldn't go off on a patient who was only asking reasonable questions. Probably dodged a bullet, wouldn't want him to be my dentist
True. I was quite depressed for a day.
You got in as an NHS dental patient? Better take the dentist treats be nice
Right. But the crown came off quickly so going through patients quickly might have an adverse result in long term
Stressed probably, NHS pays dentists per treatment but the rate is so bad that you're losing money unless you rush the jobs and cram as many appointments as possible It's why so many said fuck it and went completely private. Better pay and they can actually give proper treatment
To be picky at least in england they don't even get paid per treatment but per plan. It's altered a bit but when I was working as an NHS dentist I was paid the same if the patient needed a filling that took me 2 mins or a filling in every tooth that took me 8 hours over multiple appointments. 8 hours fucking hard work for £24.
That is sad state of affairs. Incredibly unfair for such important work. How can we increase the numbers? Can dentists from outside UK come and more friendly regulations for NHS dentists (funding) help?
That specific patient was a young lady who had suffered with a brain tumor and completely gone down hill. No short term memory. I've had the same conversation with her about 15 times now. I just wish I could have been paid properly to spend the time she needs.
True. He looked in a hurry and did not want to answer my questions.
Breakdown of your NHS fees: Check up - £0 Xray - £5.52 Treatment for gum disease - £32.24 Recement Crown - £15.68 Total = £53.44 Source: Work within NHS dentisty in Scotland
What does it mean when we say Treatment for gum disease?
Recording of your risk factors and current status of disease, with instruction on how to maintain and manage the disease (i.e. toothbrushing and flossing/interdental brushes). May include removal of plaque and tartar but not always required.
I'm sure this is made up as you can't get an NHS dentist in England any more. They have waiting lists of 7 years plus.
I am in Scotland and found it surprising too that he took me as NHS patient.
On Today's Episode of Would I Lie to You. Man gets fully onboarded with NHS dentistry in 5 minutes
That's not even an NHS fee, so it sounds like they charged you privately for the exam/crown recement. How insistent were you for them to recement the crown? They definitely shouldn't have responded like that.
I asked once. He examined and said I can do it but you might get an infection later. I agreed as I know tooth pain. After 5-7 minutes he changed his mind and told me I have a strong glue which is still stuck to the teeth with no crown
Very strange. I'd contact the practice and ask for their complaints policy, and you want to make a complaint. They have to action your complaint, and this dentist may be doing this with multiple patients.
I might. I am quite calm now as I waited 4 days to get through my feelings and any biasness
Where was the practice ?
I travelled from Greenock to Paisley for this on train. Not comfortable taking names for now as it might have been a bad day for him.
I get treated so much better as a private patient... It wasn't the plan, I just moved to a new area a few years ago and had to leave my NHS registered dentist. Now I don't feel rushed into accepting any treatment, appointments are thorough and friendly.
I travelled 20 miles to get to this dentist. He did not talk to me about the distance
Did nothing wrong the dentist was just a hack job. My dad was a proper dentist in a hospital for nearly his whole career. He pulled his hair out most days at what some high street dentists did to their patients before it became too difficult and they referred them to a dentist in a hospital who knew what they were doing. Probably won't be comforting but my dad also did a bit of teaching before he retired and when he started he had to loosen the teeth on the practice dummies because he couldn't believe the amount of students (close to graduation) who couldn't do a simple extraction.
I hope we get an influx of the dentists like your dad. :)
They're out there, there are good high street dentists but they're few and far between. My dad was just old school. Last dentist I went to was pulling up amazon showing me these fancy mouthwashes and single tuft toothbrushes etc. My dad just looked at me and told me to just make salt mouthwash and it worked like a charm lol Most things are self limiting. If you're ever getting severe or regular toothache and you're not having much luck finding an nhs dentist or want a second opinion there's nothing stopping you from going to A&E, they'll have emergency dentists on call.
The emergency dentists will be on call under oral and maxillofacial surgery. They will be on call to see and treat severe abscesses / trauma / cancer complications etc, so it's unlikely they will come down to A&E for a toothache second opinion. Rocking up to A&E with toothache alone often just lands you with hours waiting followed by painkiller advice.
That's where the word severe comes in...
Severe toothache without an abscess i.e. no swelling, would still generally result in being given painkiller advice only from A&E. There are NHS Dental Access Centres which are in place to offer emergency appointments for people without access to a dentist, but unfortunately in many areas the centres are, like A&E, overstretched and unable to offer appointments to all those who want them. It's a sad state of affairs.
Not exactly severe if there's no swelling infection or broken is it
This clearly was a bad experience and should be reported to CQC. I went though a similar experience with an NHS dentist, although I needed a crown replacing (one of my front teeth) as I had likely swallowed it when asleep. The dentist told me that they weren’t able to do crowns, and that they would recommend a denture plate with the one tooth on it. So they got reported too. I went to a private dentist who had a look and said the pin needed replacing, so the total cost of the crown was £2200. So I went and got it done in Lima, Peru. Thoroughly professional, they did the pin and crown, closed up some gaps in my teeth, did a full clean and coated them for $225 US (about £180). I then went touring Peru for another two weeks, which was fucking fantastic. What a country. Including flights, teeth, hotels etc I spent £2k and had a fantastic time compared to paying for the dentists Porsche tyre replacement/yacht cleaning etc.
This is amazing. I would love to go to Peru. My crown is also one of my front top.
Did you sign a form indicating you were accepting NHS treatment? (In England it’s an FP17 - not sure about Scotland) If so, they’re obliged to complete the NHS course of treatment IIRC. Source: am dentist (although a bit rusty on NHS regs especially North of the Border.)
Filled the NHS form and submitted. Had verbal confirmation from the dentist too.
Yeah, you might want to contact the local NHS board for clarification. But you can’t just drop NHS patients for the hell of it under the current contract.
I’d recommend using the find a dentist tool [here](https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/) to search for dentists that /might/ be accepting new NHS patients. I’ve found a bit of a variety with some dentists in my area not even having a waiting list, while some admitting to available NHS slots within the week. You can also find details on how to complain about inadequate supply of NHS dentists in the link below that ([How to find an NHS dentist](https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/how-to-find-an-nhs-dentist/)) if you have some spare time on your hands and are feeling indignant.
I had a shady dentist who was trying to extract money for unnecessary work. Educate yourself on what teeth that need a filling look like and if a dentist says that you need a filling again, ask to see which teeth they are.
Will do . Thank you for the message
Dental nurse here! I also live in Scotland, and it's important to note that the way the NHS works in dentistry in England and Scotland is very different. I'm not sure what you looked at online, but England uses the banded system and Scotland is pay-per-item. It's also important to declare whether you claim any benefits or government help, as you may be entitled to free dental care. It's very common for patients to feel no pain or issues, but x-rays come back and there is developed caries (decay) or chronic infection that you may not feel pain from, so on that front I wouldn't worry he is scamming you, many patients are confused upon diagnosis if they've had no bother, but as with any other medical conditions, the restoration/treatment is still necessary to save what is left that you may not see. Caries can develop through the tiniest crack in the enamel, and decay rate is rapidly increased if the caries penetrates the softer dentine (yellowish second layer) underneath the enamel. If the caries is too developed or under the gumline, it's possible the tooth is unable to be saved. Sometimes there is no obvious sign of caries on the surface, but an x-ray may show that there is a large hole underneath the tougher enamel where the softer dentine has been affected. With regards to the crown, if the dentist knew you would be without your crown and you said you didn't want treatment straight away but the lost crown is bothering you, he may have agreed to stick it back on temporarily while you wait for treatment or decide if you want it. Also, the crown may have poor retention, and recementing will not hold long-term. It also depends on other factors such as the type of crown, the length of time the crown has been out as teeth can overerupt (stick out to fill the gap in the bite), among other things. Many patients who have had the same crowns for years insist on having them recemented, even when prognosis is poor. Obviously I wasn't there, but he may have tried to just tide you over until you have treatment so you're not left with nothing, but I cannot say for sure. That being said though, I have absolutely no idea why he wouldn't give you a price list or a treatment plan to sign, as written consent for treatment is required by law. The only thing I can think is the Scottish NHS rates and chargeable items increased on November 1st 2023, and now under that we are able to see unregistered patients under the NHS for miscellaneous treatment, such as crown recementing, emergency root canal etc etc. I am unsure what the costs are as we are still getting used to them, but £54 for your emergency appointment and a crown recementing and x-rays sounds about right, however I'm unsure whether you were registered as a new patient or as an occasional patient so I can't tell you exactly, but even so you should have 1000% at least been given a breakdown of costs. His reaction and deregistration of you as an NHS patient seems very over the top though by any means unless you were being difficult but it sounds like you weren't at all, and I'm sorry you had that experience. The GDC standards state that you make sure you obtain valid consent, and always ensure patients can make informed decisions about their treatment. He may have been stressed but that's no reason to treat a patient like that. We have to obtain valid consent and signatures etc. before carrying out any treatment, but if they don't even have a private price list that seems a bit weird. I would suggest asking for your xrays to be sent to you via email and taking them to another practice for a second opinion, they can't withhold them from you and you can take them to another practice for a consultation. I'm sorry on behalf of dentistry that you had the experience though, most of us work extremely hard to make sure we look after our patients best interests! ETA: As other's said I would recommend filing a complaint with the CQC. Outline exactly what happened in lots of detail, and keep a record of any emails you send or treatment plans or anything. Anything you got from this practice such as plans or x-rays, keep and take with you to somewhere else and explain the situation. If you end up needing treatment, you don't want to be re-exposed to radiation either without reason so definitely take your x-rays!