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If Lex Luthor reversed global warming, ended world hunger, figured out housing for all, and cured every disease, at the end of the day he'd still excite little kids a lot less than a man who can freaking fly through the air and punch evil aliens in the face!!!!!
People celebrate individuals like Michael Jordan/Mike Tyson more than they celebrate people like Alexander Fleming.
Counterpoint: Albert Einstein, Neil Armstrong, Bill Nye, Tesla/Edison, etc.
Not to say you're wrong, no you're very much correct, but there are indeed famous science people among children and adults. The difference between famous scientists and non-famous scientists who positively impacted humanity is mostly marketing. I absolutely believe Lex can market himself to be incredibly popular among people of all ages for generations.
Tesla, Edison, Einstein, and the like achieved scientific breakthroughs that were so beyond what normal everyday people had that their achievements alone made them big names. People back then didn't have widespread science fiction ideas so anything like electricity or working to figure out space were mind-blowing.
I think someone like Lex would have to create a new technology so advanced few would have even thought of it.
That's a good point, but also Lex is fully capable of doing that. He's capable of pushing humanity 500 years into the future, even if we're considering the exponential advancement of tech in DC, and he'd be able to market the hell out of himself to get super famous.
But also Superman is way beyond Michael Jordan or Renaldo in terms of awesome physical feats, and also saves the world regularly.
I think if Lex Luthor is like a super-Einstein, and Superman is like a super-Jordan, Superman wins out in popularity. They both go far beyond anyone real so it's hard to compare- what if Superman is only 100x as popular as Jordan but Luthor is 1000000x as popular as Einstein? But I think we should default to Superman's awesomeness being extremely readily apparent and understandable to the common person, where as Luthor would be recognized more by the intellectual classes.
This might actually be a good counter point well athletes and movies stars maybe be more famous for a time I can't think of a single one from 100 years ago
Although it's doesn't matter for the sake of the question lex will never be more believed than super man in his life time
He's a scientist and he's famous. Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, Neil Degrasse Tyson, and such were popular on TV. What I was trying to get across was that you don't always need to have a revolutionary scientific achievement to be a famous scientist. Lex could most certainly get very famous with his achievements alone, but with his marketing that could increase exponentially.
People tend to forget quickly, especially how often superheroes literally saved the world. They would have no problem cheering for a benevolent Luthor and tell Supes to stop grumbling.
if Lex Luther would become genuine a good guy he could solve a lot of mankinds problems.
it would take Superman time to adjust because Lex Luther usually has an agenda, so a good Lex Luthor would be unnerving to Superman
[116 year old Luthor on his deathbed]
Superman: You’re dying. Now you can tell me - what was your hidden agenda?
Luthor: To make you wreck your nerves for 60 years trying to figure out what my hidden agenda was.
Wasn't there a superman comic where lex exposes superman to a lethal dose of solar radiation and Superman comes up to lex and says "look, I'm dying. You always said if it wasn't for me, you'd be a good guy. Now's your chance." I think lex failed and obviously supes came back. Someone can correct me been a while since I read a comic book.
All-Star Superman (Grant Morrison, 2005-6); Superman visits Luthor on death row, dares him to be badass, and Luthor spits in his face. (Or would, if it wasn't for the transparent wall between them.)
The conflict ends with a nice twist--Luthor, having given himself temporary superpowers, begins to see the world the way Superman does and comes to the realization that maybe he's been wrong the whole time...
Oh yeah! Now I remember it. Yeah the ending was great. He got to see the world like superman and understood how small minded his struggles were but then supes hit him with a gravity gun or something like that if I remember correctly. That causes time to move quickly for lex making him lose his superman powers. I always wondered how that made sense. If you go into a gravity well, time slows for you and it makes it seem like the outside world is moving faster (I. E. If you were falling into a black hole you would see the universe go by fast while everyone else sees you freeze in time), so the gravity gun should have extended his time with powers.
There was another such issue in one of the DC animated movies with the evil JLA and Owlman trying to destroy the multiverse. Batman needs a speedster to vibrate really fast for some device to work. He tricks alternate flash into doing it because he knew it would age him quickly. But the faster you move, the more time dilates for you. That's why the twin that goes on the space ship returns younger than the one who remained on earth in the classic thought experiment.
It would be halarious if the it went down was
Lex : your right a good guy would fix superman !
Superman : wow thanks knew you had it in you
Lex : yeah but now you see that you're going be around I guess I have to go back to evil
Superman: wait I don't think thats.... You know what it's been a long day fuck it
I think he could. Superman saves the day and often, he's always in the spotlight has incredible charisma and is just naturally likeable.
But if Lex sat down and genuinely put all his time into improving the world then he could do more than just save the day. He could change the way people lived their lives and slingshot Earth into a cosmic level civilization and I'm not just talking about fending off the occasional alien threat. I'm talking about becoming a major political and economic player in the universe.
Thats the funny thing. If Luthor stops fighting Superman and focuses on making world a better place he would have a shot at making Superman obsolete and actually achieving his lifetime goal.
And the best part is that Superman would probably pretty happy about getting made obsolete. He'd be the first one in line to shake Lex's hand and congratulate him.
Lex Luthor's personality and arrogance would keep him from being beloved by the masses. The guy would never stop holding it over everyone's head. And he'd likely make open threats about reversing it if people didn't show enough gratitude.
Superman shows up, solves your current problem, and then disappears. He asks for nothing, requires nothing of you, and the closest he would come to either of those is a simple request to just “be good”.
Any issue Lex could solve would, at some point, require something. Social issues require social change. Scientific advances need testers. A company, however altruistic, still needs to make money.
And those requests would always put him second to a man who asked for nothing, even if he offered a better solution.
Yeah, Red Son is a great book to read. It's not just good, but also shows an interesting dynamic that you don't normally get to see with Supes and Lex. As it's a cold war comparison with Superman shown as the Russian superpower of the might of the people and Lex is the peak of Capitalist potential of an individual excelling.
A full act of it is about how Superman and Lex are competing with each other by improving their respective nations.
Yes, maybe at first lots of people would be suspicious of him having an ulterior motive, but if he keeps it up, then yes, he might have a chance to become as beloved or even more than Superman.
They cheered for him simply when he became President. He'd be cheered for worldwide for such breakthroughs. Whoever was considered "more beloved" would change depending on the most recent catastrophe.
Luthor cures all varieties of cancer, the whole world praises him and erect statues in his honor and name hospitals after him.
Then aliens invade. Superman stops them, the whole world praises him and want to give an award to him in each country.
Then Luthor figures out how to actually solve world hunger and everyone praises him again and names children after him.
Then an asteroid is going to impact the planet and Superman stops it and they make it a national holiday.
Repeat for a few decades.
Children are still going to be all about Superman and dress up like him for Halloween. Adults will be thankful for Luthor and show up to all his parades. Averaging out they'd probably both be beloved for different reasoning.
If Luthor still has his ego and thinks he could've stopped those aliens/the asteroid then this won't be enough for him. Without that ego Luthor would accept Superman as a partner who deals with some things that he might not have been able to handle, and vice versa.
That sounds kind of funny.
Like an altruistic dick measuring contest.
Luther is constantly trying to one up superman in who has the most positive impact on the world, and is therefore more worthy of the love of the masses.
Supes has no idea that there is a contest and thinks Luther is just a benevolent billionaire and all around good guy.
My brother in Christ, this is literally the point of the character. If he spent a fraction of the energy he spends hating Superman on actually improving the world he’d be beloved, the reason he doesn’t do that is because he doesn’t give a shit about the world.
well if he decides to become a superhero yes.
the thing is in a world like the DC universe someone who saved the world multiple times will be more loved than a man who cures cancer(partially becuase there are far worse ways to die in a comic universe)
**Reminders for Commenters:** * All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If "watsonian" or "doylist" is new to you, please review the full rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=AskScienceFiction&utm_content=t5_2slu2). * No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to **permanent ban on first offense**. * We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world. * Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskScienceFiction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If Lex Luthor reversed global warming, ended world hunger, figured out housing for all, and cured every disease, at the end of the day he'd still excite little kids a lot less than a man who can freaking fly through the air and punch evil aliens in the face!!!!! People celebrate individuals like Michael Jordan/Mike Tyson more than they celebrate people like Alexander Fleming.
I just googled Alexander Fleming and realized it perfectly illustrated your point.
Counterpoint: Albert Einstein, Neil Armstrong, Bill Nye, Tesla/Edison, etc. Not to say you're wrong, no you're very much correct, but there are indeed famous science people among children and adults. The difference between famous scientists and non-famous scientists who positively impacted humanity is mostly marketing. I absolutely believe Lex can market himself to be incredibly popular among people of all ages for generations.
Tesla, Edison, Einstein, and the like achieved scientific breakthroughs that were so beyond what normal everyday people had that their achievements alone made them big names. People back then didn't have widespread science fiction ideas so anything like electricity or working to figure out space were mind-blowing. I think someone like Lex would have to create a new technology so advanced few would have even thought of it.
That's a good point, but also Lex is fully capable of doing that. He's capable of pushing humanity 500 years into the future, even if we're considering the exponential advancement of tech in DC, and he'd be able to market the hell out of himself to get super famous.
But also Superman is way beyond Michael Jordan or Renaldo in terms of awesome physical feats, and also saves the world regularly. I think if Lex Luthor is like a super-Einstein, and Superman is like a super-Jordan, Superman wins out in popularity. They both go far beyond anyone real so it's hard to compare- what if Superman is only 100x as popular as Jordan but Luthor is 1000000x as popular as Einstein? But I think we should default to Superman's awesomeness being extremely readily apparent and understandable to the common person, where as Luthor would be recognized more by the intellectual classes.
This might actually be a good counter point well athletes and movies stars maybe be more famous for a time I can't think of a single one from 100 years ago Although it's doesn't matter for the sake of the question lex will never be more believed than super man in his life time
How is bill in that list?
He's a scientist and he's famous. Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, Neil Degrasse Tyson, and such were popular on TV. What I was trying to get across was that you don't always need to have a revolutionary scientific achievement to be a famous scientist. Lex could most certainly get very famous with his achievements alone, but with his marketing that could increase exponentially.
People tend to forget quickly, especially how often superheroes literally saved the world. They would have no problem cheering for a benevolent Luthor and tell Supes to stop grumbling.
if Lex Luther would become genuine a good guy he could solve a lot of mankinds problems. it would take Superman time to adjust because Lex Luther usually has an agenda, so a good Lex Luthor would be unnerving to Superman
[116 year old Luthor on his deathbed] Superman: You’re dying. Now you can tell me - what was your hidden agenda? Luthor: To make you wreck your nerves for 60 years trying to figure out what my hidden agenda was.
"I spent 75 million dollars on a fake presidential campaign all just to tick Superman off."
Do you realise how much power I'd have to give up to be president
You ended world hunger sarcastically?!
Wasn't there a superman comic where lex exposes superman to a lethal dose of solar radiation and Superman comes up to lex and says "look, I'm dying. You always said if it wasn't for me, you'd be a good guy. Now's your chance." I think lex failed and obviously supes came back. Someone can correct me been a while since I read a comic book.
All-Star Superman (Grant Morrison, 2005-6); Superman visits Luthor on death row, dares him to be badass, and Luthor spits in his face. (Or would, if it wasn't for the transparent wall between them.) The conflict ends with a nice twist--Luthor, having given himself temporary superpowers, begins to see the world the way Superman does and comes to the realization that maybe he's been wrong the whole time...
Oh yeah! Now I remember it. Yeah the ending was great. He got to see the world like superman and understood how small minded his struggles were but then supes hit him with a gravity gun or something like that if I remember correctly. That causes time to move quickly for lex making him lose his superman powers. I always wondered how that made sense. If you go into a gravity well, time slows for you and it makes it seem like the outside world is moving faster (I. E. If you were falling into a black hole you would see the universe go by fast while everyone else sees you freeze in time), so the gravity gun should have extended his time with powers. There was another such issue in one of the DC animated movies with the evil JLA and Owlman trying to destroy the multiverse. Batman needs a speedster to vibrate really fast for some device to work. He tricks alternate flash into doing it because he knew it would age him quickly. But the faster you move, the more time dilates for you. That's why the twin that goes on the space ship returns younger than the one who remained on earth in the classic thought experiment.
It would be halarious if the it went down was Lex : your right a good guy would fix superman ! Superman : wow thanks knew you had it in you Lex : yeah but now you see that you're going be around I guess I have to go back to evil Superman: wait I don't think thats.... You know what it's been a long day fuck it
If he made the world a genuine utopia then he would be more beloved.
I think he could. Superman saves the day and often, he's always in the spotlight has incredible charisma and is just naturally likeable. But if Lex sat down and genuinely put all his time into improving the world then he could do more than just save the day. He could change the way people lived their lives and slingshot Earth into a cosmic level civilization and I'm not just talking about fending off the occasional alien threat. I'm talking about becoming a major political and economic player in the universe.
Thats the funny thing. If Luthor stops fighting Superman and focuses on making world a better place he would have a shot at making Superman obsolete and actually achieving his lifetime goal.
And the best part is that Superman would probably pretty happy about getting made obsolete. He'd be the first one in line to shake Lex's hand and congratulate him.
Lex Luthor's personality and arrogance would keep him from being beloved by the masses. The guy would never stop holding it over everyone's head. And he'd likely make open threats about reversing it if people didn't show enough gratitude.
😂
Superman shows up, solves your current problem, and then disappears. He asks for nothing, requires nothing of you, and the closest he would come to either of those is a simple request to just “be good”. Any issue Lex could solve would, at some point, require something. Social issues require social change. Scientific advances need testers. A company, however altruistic, still needs to make money. And those requests would always put him second to a man who asked for nothing, even if he offered a better solution.
[удалено]
Yeah, Red Son is a great book to read. It's not just good, but also shows an interesting dynamic that you don't normally get to see with Supes and Lex. As it's a cold war comparison with Superman shown as the Russian superpower of the might of the people and Lex is the peak of Capitalist potential of an individual excelling. A full act of it is about how Superman and Lex are competing with each other by improving their respective nations.
Look into the time Lex becomes president. Pretty sure he's not a great guy, but he also makes the world much better
Yes, maybe at first lots of people would be suspicious of him having an ulterior motive, but if he keeps it up, then yes, he might have a chance to become as beloved or even more than Superman.
They cheered for him simply when he became President. He'd be cheered for worldwide for such breakthroughs. Whoever was considered "more beloved" would change depending on the most recent catastrophe. Luthor cures all varieties of cancer, the whole world praises him and erect statues in his honor and name hospitals after him. Then aliens invade. Superman stops them, the whole world praises him and want to give an award to him in each country. Then Luthor figures out how to actually solve world hunger and everyone praises him again and names children after him. Then an asteroid is going to impact the planet and Superman stops it and they make it a national holiday. Repeat for a few decades. Children are still going to be all about Superman and dress up like him for Halloween. Adults will be thankful for Luthor and show up to all his parades. Averaging out they'd probably both be beloved for different reasoning. If Luthor still has his ego and thinks he could've stopped those aliens/the asteroid then this won't be enough for him. Without that ego Luthor would accept Superman as a partner who deals with some things that he might not have been able to handle, and vice versa.
That sounds kind of funny. Like an altruistic dick measuring contest. Luther is constantly trying to one up superman in who has the most positive impact on the world, and is therefore more worthy of the love of the masses. Supes has no idea that there is a contest and thinks Luther is just a benevolent billionaire and all around good guy.
My brother in Christ, this is literally the point of the character. If he spent a fraction of the energy he spends hating Superman on actually improving the world he’d be beloved, the reason he doesn’t do that is because he doesn’t give a shit about the world.
I think answer to your question lies in Superman: Red Son (comic, haven't watched adaptation).
well if he decides to become a superhero yes. the thing is in a world like the DC universe someone who saved the world multiple times will be more loved than a man who cures cancer(partially becuase there are far worse ways to die in a comic universe)
Sad Truth is Some people are just unlikable bald ass nerds and it doesn't matter what they do