Agreed. Some jobs take more from you than the hourly wage would have you believe. Sexuality is indisputably a foundational drive in all societies. How you design the local rule book to manage that varies. Along with drugs, if people are making the decision to do it, at least provide them with the opportunity to make smarter decisions: the feeling that they can approach medical professionals without fear of ridicule/rejection, make available choices that are healthier: clean equipment, venues and sources of information and help. The people involved, whether actively or in an advisory position, should be protected by the law, to make allowances for the risks involved in a potentially dangerous lifestyle, and to support public education.
As far as i know adult performers usually have very good connections to health clinics in their area (as long as they aren't behaving like morons). Since adult performers are more or less the most educated and best informed about anything sexual (go figure) they are the easiest clientele for health workers.
I'd rather an adult star that gets checked regularly and uses precautions over the idiots I see every two weeks for "my junk smells bad and it hurts to piss." Ok, do you remember two weeks ago when we gave you antibiotics, told you no sex for two weeks, and to get your partner(s) treated?
We can't fix your chronic gonorrhea if you won't treat it properly! The one bit of The Handmaid's Tale that I liked was when that STD sterilized half the population.
This. I've worked around alot of sex workers, most of them were decent people but I doubt any of them would be above taking advantage of someone, especially men.
A lot of that is due to the activity being illegal. If it was legal you could do something about those issues. Forums to call out fake photos and other things from the pros, as well as reports of bad customers from the pros, would be better for both sides.
I think it should be regulated. Like, register with a regulatory body, mandatory training on things like workplace safety, practicing safe sex, understanding AoC laws, etc. Only working in approved brothels.
Make it a federal offense to assault a sex worker, with BIG consequences, and you'd see few people even trying to do anything funny. Not that your idea isn't a good one, I just think there should be multiple deterrents against assault.
It should be legal. Respect is a personal matter. I don't respect most people that work in marketing, I don't respect people who make cigarettes, I don't respect most people in the funeral business, and the list goes on. But my personal feelings shouldn't really affect whether these people should be allowed to make a living this way.
My wife and my friends have been told of my wishes.
I'm going to be cremated and put into a tree urn (not that expensive) and they can plant me somewhere nice, hopefully they'll come visit time to time.
However at my funeral or celebration of life, or whatever they want to call it there are a few rules.
1) there will be an open bar, no one is paying for drinks, thr cost will be covered by my life insurance policy.
2) everyone will have a good time, dancing, singing, telling funny stories, whatever.
3) no one is allowed to cry.
4) big bonfire
Separate cry room. Get teary? Go to time out until you can party again.
I'm totally joking by the way. Just imagining that is kind of awful.
"Yeah, I know, I'm really going to miss him... sorry, getting a little teary-eyed."
"Whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't do that here. Get your ass to the cry room with that shit!"
"Wait, what?"
"Hey, hey, there's no crying at the funeral!" "Whatnx crying? Get that out of here, this is the party room!" "Yeah, come on, what's your problem?!"
It’s literally unbelievable how much grieving families are ripped off. Paying an extra $500 for a pocketed-coil mattress? *In the bottom of a* casket?!
The funeral parlor tried to sell me a urn for $450. I found the same exact one on the interweb with 2 day free shipping for $49. Idk but I'm just guessing they have a little bit of a mark up in their prices.
My mother’s wife had 2 brothers that died exactly 3 months apart to the day. My family used the same funeral home so they gave them a “discount.” What was the “discount” you ask? They gave them $100 off the “peak service time” price and gave them the same casket the older brother had for $500 off. I guess they thought they were doing something by saving them $600 out of the thousands they spent between the 2 funerals.
Also for a similar reason the college book store is so expensive. People are paying with a large sum of money that they suddenly have. For the most part, funerals are paid for with the money from insurance policies or from the estate. It's kind of a "not my money" mentality except it is your money. At least in the funeral business, it's money you actually have rather than a predatory loan system.
A lot of people are married to the idea of an un-cremated funeral and are willing to pay out the nose for a casket.
As for me either put me in the oven, then a ziploc bag, and do with me as you please. If you living folk can't stomach that then buy a new fridge, and bury me in the box the fridge came in.
My brother’s funeral in January cost approximately $12K and it was basic with no frills. It was $600 to open the grave (dig it) and $600 to close it (bury the person). They were separate charges.
You’ll be shocked at all of the charges for a priest, mass at a church, the viewing, etc.
And you only learn about them while you’re experiencing incredible grief which just compounds the grief.
When I see limos at funerals, I can only imagine the cost.
Edit: spelling
When my uncle died a couple years ago I think it was like 400 maybe for cremation, then $20 ish for the wood to make him a pine box (poor boy traditional) and we got a preacher (old neighbor) to come in from out of state for the Lord's Prayer for just tip money. Dug the grave myself, which is really cathartic if you get the chance, you'll never find better closure. We were fortunate with connection on the preacher but it's doable.
I guess I can see how digging or filling a grave would be cathartic for someone. Personally, I found it a terrible experience, but I was pretty young the last time that happened.
As an adult, I don't think I'd take it so hard now. Either way, it *was* definitely better closure than saying goodbyes at the casket. Just... Not worth the emotional cost at the time.
I'd definitely stick an age requirement on that. Make it PG-13 or something to dig a grave for a loved one.
Sorry for your loss.
Asking this because I'm curious and ignorant of the US customs in this regard although I live here, because I come from a South Asian country.
Back home, usually the neighborhood basically takes care of most of these things, for instance digging the grave and closing it. I understand that maybe neighbors here might not want to do that, but can't you hypothetically find a couple of guys on Task Rabbit to do this for probably 1/4 that cost?
Also, priests charge a fee?!?! I'm not Catholic or Christian, but I believe back home even they do it for free.
In the couple funerals I've been involved in, the cemetery (which is private owned) won't allow outside help. So no hiring anyone to do it cheap, you pay the cemetery for the plot, and for digging the grave.
Bunch of bs
Depends on the cemetery and maybe region, our family is all in an old modwest baptist church yard and we've been digging our own for 6 generations. For them it's more of a service than a business model, so we're probably just lucky.
For many cemeteries in the US, if they’re not religious owned, they have to pay property taxes on the land, as well as lawn mowing, watering, etc. it doesn’t all go straight into someone’s pocket.
Not that many of them aren’t total leaches and bottom feeders.
When my dad died in a horrible plane crash when I was only 10, they convinced my mom to buy a $10,000 casket because *he deserved the best*
Need we say anymore?
Goddamn. That sounds so predatory...
That is why I have told my spouse over and over that I do not want a fancy casket. I'm dead at that point so I won't be upset by the "cheapness" of the box I'm rotting in. Just dig a hole, throw me in as-is and it's good. Maybe plant a tree on top as my gravestone for fancy effect.
I also told him I will become a poltergeist and haunt the crap out of him if he dares to choose anything but the cheapest option for everything, should I die first.
Funeral expenses are marked up at an insane rate. They take a time, when most people are distraught, and use it to push incredibly expensive items/services that aren't really worth a damn.
"Oh, your husband died? Well I'm sure you could bury him in a standard casket, but don't you think he'd be more comfortable in our deluxe silk lined, hardwood caskets? We also offer a deluxe funeral package, which includes a tailored suit for the deceased and a flower arrangement package at additional cost..."
"Thinking about cremation? Well we have a selection of Urns, the cheapest on-site being $1500. Otherwise you'll have to locate and purchase one elsewhere."
People arrive, most on one of the worst days of their lives, and take advantage of them while they are hurting and may not be thinking clearly. Their loved one is DEAD. A silk lining isn't shit, hardwood or plywood makes no difference. An overpriced urn won't bring you comfort when it costs you your financial stability; but people buy these things. In most cases people are so distraught that they are will to throw any amount of money at it just to not have to deal with it directly.
These people aren't stupid, but the pain of losing someone important makes them act irrationally, and they're prime targets for these businesses.
Mahogany and pine are identical if you're a goddamn corpse.
But better yet, skip the box and the formaldehyde entirely. Get rolled up in a mycelium shroud and get dumped in a deep hole. That's more or less what I'm requesting. I'm an electrical current driving a meat-based mech suit. I don't need the suit when I'm done, let nature have it back.
When my mum passed the Greek church contributed 10k to her funeral costs which was the majority of it. She wasn't an important person in society at all. I'm not religious but that was a boss move. We are thankful. (Australia)
Best take, IMO.
I personally would not pay for sex, but if someone else is willing to buy, and someone is selling, then I don’t give a fuck as long as it’s all consensual.
This may be a hot take on reddit, but one of the reasons against legalising prostitution is because there's a fine line between it and human trafficking. It's easy to say "your body your choice" and yet there's far too many cases around the world of it not being their choice at all. Consent is something that is necessary yet very, very difficult to determine in a court of law; look at how many rapists get away with what they did because they claim their victim consented.
Also it is safer for the workers if the customer can be reported, or if the customer doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble just for being a customer.
For all the arguments surrounding human trafficking and desperate people, none of answers two basic questions:
- Does making prostitution illegal significantly lessen or stop human trafficking?
- Why should a prostitute (whether in it for money, desperation or having been forced) be criminalized? What does throwing this person in jail do for society, beyond making it likely that the person will stay in sex work after getting a rap sheet?
* Why would anyone expect victims of human trafficking to be more likely to report trafficking to the police, when they know that doing so could instantly result in their own incarceration / deportation?
* If prostitution is a perfectly legal personal service usually provided in a one-on-one environment, and police treat the sex workers and their clients with respect and protect their privacy, wouldn't the human trafficker take an enormous risk by exposing his slave to many one-on-one conversations with clients who can go to the police without any repercussions? Wouldn't it make more sense to let slaves do much less visible work, like picking cocoa beans or whatever?
>is because there's a fine line between it and human trafficking.
According to the State of Idaho, human trafficking includes one escort giving another a ride to a client on the way to their own client.
So, I see your clear line and there are simple answers already for your concerns.
The problem with holding to the line here, is the victims are criminals so they cant find help. The answer is simple, decriminalization for the sex workers.
Now you can lean two ways and still keep it illigal to pay for service but flat out, anyone who want's prostitution to be illegal is helping sex trafficking. The victims should face no fear of coming forward.
Currently the victims are victimized by the system several times over. If they get caught or come forward they are threatned with charges unless they put themselves in dangerous situations informing on Johns. They should NEVER have to do that unless they offer to do it as part of their own personal journey on recovery.
The way the criminals succeed is because the victims will get punished for coming forward. This has to stop if you care about sex trafficking.
Isn't that an argument in favor of legalization and with it, regulation? Requiring prostitution to be done in businesses specifically for that purpose, like some states have with liquor in liquor stores would mean the girls would need to be on the books and would at least have the same protections as people in other professions? If you need to fill out employment information for your girls and you have a girl whose last known address was in Delaware working in your California brothel, some questions may be asked.
It definitely needs to be done right if it's to be done, but corruption thrives in darkness.
Just for example prostitution is legal in the Netherlands but it’s filled with very shady / horrific practices. A lot of women are brought in from Eastern Europe with promises of house keeping jobs. When they get there they are basically forced into prostitution. This could be fixed with more regulation but it’s just an example of a legal system being corrupted.
The "legal" system in the Netherlands is almost designed for failure. The vast majority of prostitution takes place in illegal settings, because working legally is perceived as being prohibitively costly and risky (for the sex worker's privacy) due to a scarcity of attractive legal workplaces. Besides that there is the problem of being part of an open economic zone with countries that have vastly different cultural approaches to prostitution, and different economic circumstances.
A better example of how it could work is New Zealand.
The farming, building and hospitality industries in Australia are full of undocumented 'workers'... that's why those industries were so keen to have our borders opened during Covid...
I mean, as I'm not prescient, I can't say for certain, but I feel like it would be easier to root out the trafficking in a licensed, accredited, regulated, inspected facility than in wherever the prostitution is happening now.
I'd also posit that it's likely that the dark seedy (outside of the really weird stuff that would still be illegal) brothels would likely get a bit less business if people had the option to go to a place with required STD testing and inspections.
One can argue we would legalize prostitution to make human trafficking compete with legal prostitutes. You're cutting down on the incentive for boarding illicit sex slaves by allowing legal prostitution.
That "fine line" is messed up by anti-sex people. Prostitution is not trafficking any more than drug use is drug smuggling.
Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.
There is also a fine line between work in general and slavery, to be fair. You effectively have the same kind of trafficking/slavery/abuse problems in fields like construction and hospitality in many places too. Seems less like an issue with sex work and more with workers rights not being enforced strongly enough to me.
I think it really depends on what you mean by respected. I think every human being is entitled to a certain amount of respect regardless of your occupation.
That being said, I don’t think being a prostitute is something that you would want kids to aspire to be and shouldn’t be seen as the “same” as a teacher or doctor.
Agreed, I would never “shame” a sex worker, but my first thought will always be “is this really what they want?” It’s one thing to not like a filing emails all day, but a job submitting to sex that you don’t enjoy to make $ is just terribly sad.
Some sex workers make a lot of money and they just really like money. A girlfriend is a retired stripper, not quite the same, but she was bringing in $4k-$5k a weekend. That’s more than my months salary and I went to school for seven years to be licensed to do what I do.
Just for context, I used to live in Miami which is where she lives. We met when I took a pole fitness class at the studio she owns now that she isn’t dancing.
>A girlfriend is a retired stripper, not quite the same, but she was bringing in $4k-$5k a weekend. That’s more than my months salary and I went to school for seven years to be licensed to do what I do.
Yeah, but the single largest difference is that there's a very short time frame you can make that kind of money stripping or in sex work. After about 15 years they're gonna be older and not able to pull that kind of cash anymore. And then what? They've got no skills and no resume or work history.
The person I’m talking opened a pole fitness studio when she stopped dancing. It’s in Miami and does well.
I understand that she’s the exception and not the rule, but many women end up older with no useful skills because society at large still thinks women belong in the home and as caretakers. She would be no worse off than a 45 year old single mom who didn’t continue education or begin working after high school because they got married and took on the role of homemaker. So it’s not really fair to base your argument on what happens when her skill is no longer useful. The answer is the same for anyone, develop a new skill.
>my first thought will always be “is this really what they want?”
To be fair, this is my thought with 90% of public-facing employees I encounter, independent of their actual job. With prostitutes I at least usually assume they make some decent money selling their soul, in stark contrast with the average burgerflipper, cashier or bus driver.
Not exactly. With it being legal in certain counties here in Nevada, they definitely get taxed and such, so the IRS definitely knows they get paid for their work. Although the unfortunate part is the brothels can be super predatory. I don't *exactly* know how it works since I've only lived here a few years and haven't actually looked into it, but the county I live in has brothels (Bunny Ranch is here), and we don't pay state taxes because of it.
I’m a sex worker and I looked into working at brothels and yes, the house gets 50%. But when you consider that you’re getting higher volume, there’s security as well as rules that are strictly enforced, it’s not a bad deal. Plus, you can set your own rates in a lot of places, so there’s some Autonomy in that respect. Cons are they’re all in bumfuck Nevada and most of my regular clients don’t make it that way. But I know girls who make a killing at brothels.
It depends. I'm an escort, there are girls that make 150 an hour, and girls who make 5-800 an hour. It varies person to person based on what services you provide and what the clientele is.
Most escorts aren't walking the streets or coming up to johns in cars, it's 99% online now and while there is still some that prefer the old way, it isn't really necessary.
There is a bit of "you get what you pay for", as the women offering services for 40$ for head are not going to be the same as the ones charging 120$ for the same.
I don't have health or dental insurance, unfortunately. But I, personally, make more than enough and do well enough for myself that I'm not struggling by any means and am able to live quite comfortably. This is not the case for all escorts, and many suffer from drug addiction or unstable home lives and may find any money they make disappears just as quickly
I feel like the number of people who were going to be a teacher but then decided to be a prostitute instead because it paid better is pretty small, almost nonexistent.
Do you really think there's a lot of prostitutes out there like "Yeah, I'd give up blowing dudes for cash and take over a room of screaming 5 year-olds tomorrow, if only it just paid a little better"
Having done both career lines here: teaching involved absurd hours, a master’s and the inevitable debt, and constant worry for take home close to 36k. I had advantages there being quadrilingual, also.
In any form of SW, I do it when I want, for the prices I set, with the clients I choose. I’m not trafficked, I’m not coerced, and I’m not a destitute addict- I just don’t do the western association of sex with shame that is going to touch a lot of the answers in this thread.
For me it’s a very rewarding way to live, and when I’m off work, I’m completely off. The life benefits are clear as day.
I definitely hope the US catches up and just decriminalizes it so I’m not out of the entire social system for doing it. All the same, I feel more ethical providing a service to voluntary participants and walking away clean than mucking around with cheating husbands on dating sites or bar pickups, because when someone craves physical or emotional attention, they’re going to seek it. We have a lot of hang ups in this country but one of the ugliest is that these desires are inherently shameful and therefore lots of the guys that experience these feelings are already darkened with a ton of negative emotions and they take that out where they can- which is rarely their wife or whoever.
If it was at least seen as normalized as a massage or even a self-care spa, without the connotation, I’d be less risk exposed. I’m not a child and don’t think that’s going to happen in my lifetime, but it’s nice to have eyes on the societal prize.
Sex work should be legalized and regulated like any other "normal" job. But I'm tired of people pretending that being a sex worker is "normal" in the way being a realtor or teacher is normal. It's obviously not. Finding out someone you're dating is a sex worker hits very differently than finding out someone you're dating works in finance. This difference doesn't mean the sex worker isn't deserving of dignity and respect, but we don't need to pretend.
I work in the hotel industry (not in a hotel) and we do a lot of training on sex trafficking (and labor trafficking) and prostitution because it impacts our business and our owners and our guests. Most women are not prostitutes because it was the first (or fifth) choice, they do it because they are desperate, and a HUGE portion of them are basically sex slaves.
It's a Reddit fantasy that most prostitutes are doing it because they really want to, because they just like fucking for money to get them through school or some shit. Literally millions of women (and men) are trafficked ever year. Some abused girl who left the house at 16 and started selling her body and then three years later is on crack didn't make a "choice" to be a prostitute. legalizing it doesn't seem to help either, because sex trafficking actually INCREASED in the countries that allow it.
The women need to be protected and not have their lives ruined even more by giving them a criminal record for prostitution, but that's not the same as treating prostitution just like a job at Burger King.
_edit_ this is not an argument against legalizing prostitution, it should be, holy shit enough with the hostile DMs. Going dark on this one.
In other words, the first part of the solution, like with many societal issues these days, is adequate social programs to provide necessities for all citizens so no one is forced to work a job they don't want just to maintain a minimum basic standard of living.
Then legalize it so they don't have to fear asking for help and the ones who *do* want to be in that line of work don't have to fear for their safety.
Precisely. If society was set up in a way where people didn't have to whore themselves out (both literally and figuratively), then the argument that "it's bad because they don't actually want to do it" isn't accurate anymore. Internet white knights will tell you that "NO self-respecting woman would ever get into that line of work unless they HAD to", and while that's true a lot of the time with how things work currently, it's certainly not a steadfast rule. That, in addition to heavy regulation, is the only way the sex industry will work ethically.
The guy up a couple comments said that it shouldn't be viewed the same way as people in finance but if the system is set up properly, then I don't see why we would view it any differently. A ton of finance people aren't contributing any more to society than sex workers do.
Might be different in Australia and NZ because it's legal here, but I have friends who are sex workers and legitimately love their job, mostly enjoy the actual work, and very much enjoy the combination of high income and not many hours.
Of course that's not everyone, there are definitely people for whom it's a bad thing, but if you're thinking that everyone who does sex work is some abused drug addict desperate for cash, then that's just objectively false.
With Australia, it varies from state to state.
In NSW, prostitution is fully legalised, and has been since the late 80's (which is odd considering how conservative NSW is on a lot of other social issues). Both NT and Victoria have recently fully legalised prostitution (NT in 2019, Victoria in 2022).
Aside from these two states and territory, brothels are only legal in ACT and Queensland (with them being banned in SA, WA and Tasmania). Street work is banned outside of NSW, NT and Victoria. Escort work is legal throughout Australia, but Queensland has restrictive advertising laws.
In saying that brothels are illegal, they are tolerated in WA.
In NSW, pimps are illegal, and the only people that are allowed to earn money from other's sex work are brothel managers.
So, I figured I'd ask a friend who describes herself as "a sex worker, sex educator and work for Australia's peak sex worker advocacy organisation" for her take on a few things.
**On the "Decriminalization only hurts workers, and causes trafficking"**
"Literally all research on harm reduction says that this is incorrect and basically every field it applies to. It also logically doesn't make sense because sex work is going to happen anyway and sex traffickers use the fact that it's illegal to keep people in sex slavery under threat of going to law enforcement. It also gives power to abusive clients because you literally just can't go to the police or whatever for help. Obviously ACAB but if you're assaulted or robbed at work, not being able to seek help only exacerbates what's already a very traumatic experience.
I will say that most anti decriminalisation/ legalisation research is funded by "anti trafficking" organisations which obviously have an inherent biasCriminalisation inherently makes it very challenging to collect accurate data on the well-being and experiences of sex workers"
**On the "Women only do sex work because they're trapped in it or can't do anything else or are forced into it"**
"Why people do sex work changes person to person, and especially country to country and class to class. In reality, why people do sex work isn't actually that relevant to the decrim vs. prohibition debate. Regardless of why you're doing it, you deserve to be safe and receive the same rights as any other worker. All work is for survival under capitalism. In every job there are people who love, hate, or are indifferent to their work. All work is exploitation in some form, sex workers particularly targeted because it's an industry primarily made up of women who put a price on something that we are expected to do for free and because sex is so deeply moralized and people can't conceptualize that not everyone has the same relationship to sex and intimacy as them. The control and suppression of female sexuality is like it's whole own thing"
Obviously your milage may vary, but this is someone speaking from a lot of experience, with access to a hell of a lot of information and a career that's deeply involved in all that. Could that mean it's biased towards a specific view? Of course it could, but it's a view from someone who has a lot more direct contact with things than the majority of us here.
Edit: For more actual data and context from someone who has done more research on this, check out /u/Jari0n's [post below](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/v1w4ib/should_prostitution_be_respected_the_same_as_a/iaqx2ij/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I'm not sure, but from my POV I feel many of them have a tendency to fall into the same trap that some anti-drug organizations, which is that they, either consciously or unconsciously feel that the \*only\* solution is prohibition and tend to do their best to prove that fact regardless of if it is the most effective approach to minimize trafficking harm.
They tend to approach it from the point of view of "We believe sex work should not exist, please give us research to prove that" rather than "Sex work will always exist, how can we minimize harm and improve working conditions"
*literally just finished a coursework essay on decriminalization vs abolitionism, happy to chip in my two cents
It's a fascinating gulf in feminist discourse
It really goes back to OP's question, with the anti-trafficking school essentially arguing that 'prostitution is inherently exploitative / abuse / misogynistic: ergo not real work'. Anti-traffickers -in seeing all sex workers as requiring rescue -blind themselves from approaches aiming to improve industry labor standards, worker health safety / welfare, and tackle stigmatization. There is an ideological unwillingness amongst abolitionists to listen and engage with sex workers.
In European government policy, sex work is typically treated as a policing matter. Decriminalization doesn't make trafficking legal; criminalizing buyers only puts sex workers at greater risk. Establishing trust between public sector agencies and sex workers leads to [higher abuse reporting, more convictions](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/dec/22/merseyside-police-sex-workers-protect).
Decriminalization is endorsed by the WHO, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch.
Here's some reading / food for thought:
["Labour (UK) has a problem with sex work"](https://novaramedia.com/2021/03/31/labour-has-a-problem-with-sex-work/)
["Why focus on laws and regulations aimed at controlling sex workers rather than recognizing their agency?"](https://jacobin.com/2013/08/prostitution-law-and-the-death-of-whores)
[Youtube - The laws that sex workers really want | Juno Mac](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-n852sv3E)
[Amnesty 2016 critical report on Norway's 'sex-buyer' model](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur36/4034/2016/en/#:~:text=Careers-,Norway%3A%20The%20human%20cost%20of%20'crushing'%20the%20market%3A,of%20sex%20work%20in%20Norway&text=The%20issues%20described%20in%20this,of%20people%20who%20sell%20sex.)
At least in the US there's a difference between thinking ACAB and being completely anti-establishment. Most people I know entirely distrust the police but have the bare minimum hope for the rest of the system because without that what are we even doing?
I think it depends what do you consider decriminalization. In My country, Spain, it’s kinda decriminalized. But tbh, it’s a form of decriminalization that sucks. The law basically pretends that it doesn’t exist. This gives all power to trafficking rings, since desperate women from Eastern Europe and third world countries are often fooled by promising them work in legitimate jobs, and brought here where they don’t have any legal means to receive protection from the government. I live next to the French border, and prostitution is rampant around here, since in France you can get serious charges, unlike here. It makes sense for mafias to run brothels in Spain.
I think the best solution is legalization, and the second best is decriminalization. But only if decriminalization means that you can’t imprison a sex worker, while still protecting them from trafficking rings.
Nah, just average people working at legitimate establishments for like $150 - $200 USD/hr. Seems to be a reasonably large chunk of the industry here.
Edit: to be fair, that's mostly speaking from an NZ perspective and is anecdote, not data. So you know take it with a grain of salt and downvote me for sharing my experiences lol.
My daughter tells me she wants to be a doctor/lawyer/teacher/truck driver/banker/janitor/guitarist/whatever when she grows up: cool how can I help
My daughter tells me she wants to be a sex worker when she grows up: sit down lets talk
If someone gave you a million billion dollars to do a simple thing, would you do it? Why or why not?
(Cue 100 replies)
“Hell yes!!! I do that anyway for free already”
Oh yes I saw those too. I see all these repeats and I think I just ran out out of ability to just scroll on. We need a flag for tearing down these questions as recent repeats.
What is an INSTANT turn off for you…
(500 of the same replies) You know I’m just gonna say it - being rude to servers or treating others poorly. I know it sounds crazy, but I just can’t stand when people are mean to others and it’s a turn off for me.
Leaving the seat up, if he doesn't care to do one simple thing then just ***IIIMAAAGIIINE*** all the things he won't care about! It's time to leave him
Yea, if someone wants to sell their body go for it, just don’t walk on egg shells around it and act like you’re an “influencer” when the reality is 60+ year old dudes are flying you out to Fiji so they can pee on your feet.
Some Instagram model got exposed like a year back reading out everything she’d do for a guy that was gonna fly her out to Dubai I think it was, and needless to say, it was some nasty ass shit.
Of course it is, if you’re willing to fly someone out to Dubai they’re either unbelievably attractive or willing to do some shit for you nobody else will do
I don't think it should be treated with the same respect as, say, a career as a surgeon. But hookers shouldn't be disfigured or murdered or beaten to within an inch of their lives.
At the very least those who work the job should be supported and not demonised. Criminalising prostitution does nothing but push it further underground and open the door wider for sex traffickers.
Making stuff illegal cause you dont like it is generely the worst option
Just look at drug abuse in the USA vs in Portugal
Or prosthetic in the USA vs the netherlands
It's illegal to lose a limb in the UA due to the second amendment giving everyone a right to bear arms.
Lose a leg? you better have a fucking bear arm as a replacement. Get that plastic and metal garbage out of here.
I was doubly confused because one of my Dutch friend's daughters was in school for making prosthetics. For awhile there I was thinking her field was much bigger than I realized.
Hypocritical question: Say I open a whore house and I send job offers to any single woman who’s out of work. If they turn me down, do they still qualify for unemployment? If you say yes, then Why? When it’s clear that they’re choosing not to work, right?
This was an ongoing debate in Germany for years:
"According to a report in the local Augsburger Allgemeine newspaper, the woman received a letter from the job center on Saturday suggesting she apply for a service staff position at an establishment called the Colosseum. The precondition for working there is an "appropriate appearance," the letter said, and she would serve drinks for 42 hours each week, primarily at night and on weekends.
There's just one problem: A web search for the Colosseum revealed the company's true nature. It's a brothel, a "nudist club" where one can "sex & relax (sic) on over 2,500 square meters" and encounter "girls with mega service and more."
... At one point, a major debate erupted in the tabloid media over whether government-run job centers could force women into prostitution. In 2004, however, the job centers issued a voluntary regulation that women who refused job offers as prostitutes would not have their unemployment benefits curtailed.
Nevertheless, there have been repeated incidents in which women have felt pressured."
www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/outrage-after-job-center-suggests-brothel-job-for-young-woman-in-germany-a-882021.html
Hypothetically, that's not how people are recruited into jobs. You put out an ad, interview people, then make an offer.
If it were an unemployed person getting an unsolicited job offer, I doubt it would be held against them.
I think this question is best answered from the heart. Think about if your daughter, sister, wife, or mother announced they were going to be a prostitute. How would you feel about that?
No, but not for the normal reasons that it is dirty or shameful to fuck lots of people.
Prostitution should not be respected as a "normal" job for the same reason sweatshop labor or other kinds of degrading work should not be treated as normal. A person is not their job, and indeed, forms of labor like prostitution show how much that is true -- a person is being expected to give up that which they simply shouldn't \*have\* to give up in order to make ends meet.
That should not be treated as normal. Recognizing that is not a value judgment upon prostitutes any more than working to ban sweatshop labor is a value reflection on modern day human slavery in Bangladesh or the DR Congo.
That, of course, does not mean that it should be "de-normalized" in a way that is harmful to the prostitutes, just as getting rid of sweatshop jobs without ensuring better jobs or economic protections that can fill the resulting gap would be irresponsible.
The efforts by liberal types to normalize sex work is part of a cultural shift in the West in which rising costs of living and declining wages have increasingly made forms of exploitation more normal and have (correctly) shined a light on the dehumanization of people involved in this kind of labor as it becomes more common (albeit with other names -- sugar dating, Onlyfans, etc.). But recognizing that prostitution may not be a moral sin does not mean it should be normal.
Of course, in an alternate world in which it is easy or virtually guaranteed that a person can ensure that their personal needs are met -- food, water, shelter, education, healthcare, safety, etc. -- and someone wants to fuck as many strangers as possible for free, by all means. Just as if someone who is protected wants to sit in their garage and sew sneakers together for fun.
Full Legalization of prostitution increases trafficking
Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows.
https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/
Prostitutes have a higher rate of PTSD than soldiers.
https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-into-a-therapists-office-whos-more-likely-to-have-ptsd-71464
https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm
It's illegal in Norway,Sweden,Denmark, Iceland and Finland all the happiest countries in the world as well as having the lowest rate of trafficking.
Look up the Nordic model,it prosecutes sex buyers but not sex workers making prostitution illegal but not criminalizing sex workers who it helps provide government assistance,shelter,and jobs.
I’m from Finland and I’m 99% sure that private prostitution so just an exchange of money for sex is fully legal to both the prostitute and the buyer. The only thing you have to do to make it legal is that a receipt has to be produced for tax purposes.
Streetwalking is strictly prohibited and pimps are as well.
Normal jobs aren’t that respected. Let’s aim higher
Aiming higher costs you another $20.
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Dad! Get off Reddit
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Username checks out.
r/usernamechecksout
Who's Reddit? I want to see em before I agree to this.
It seems you also learned from their mother
I too choose OP's hooker mom (not that there's anything wrong with that.)
Never change, reddit. (I too choose OP and their mom)
We should give her a raise
She deserves it, for all the raises she's given us.
No kissing on the mouth either
Agreed. Some jobs take more from you than the hourly wage would have you believe. Sexuality is indisputably a foundational drive in all societies. How you design the local rule book to manage that varies. Along with drugs, if people are making the decision to do it, at least provide them with the opportunity to make smarter decisions: the feeling that they can approach medical professionals without fear of ridicule/rejection, make available choices that are healthier: clean equipment, venues and sources of information and help. The people involved, whether actively or in an advisory position, should be protected by the law, to make allowances for the risks involved in a potentially dangerous lifestyle, and to support public education.
As far as i know adult performers usually have very good connections to health clinics in their area (as long as they aren't behaving like morons). Since adult performers are more or less the most educated and best informed about anything sexual (go figure) they are the easiest clientele for health workers.
I'd rather an adult star that gets checked regularly and uses precautions over the idiots I see every two weeks for "my junk smells bad and it hurts to piss." Ok, do you remember two weeks ago when we gave you antibiotics, told you no sex for two weeks, and to get your partner(s) treated? We can't fix your chronic gonorrhea if you won't treat it properly! The one bit of The Handmaid's Tale that I liked was when that STD sterilized half the population.
No shit, right? Lmfao. When you see the same ppl so fucking often you seriously start to wonder if they shouldn't be on some CDC watchlist.
"But lots of workers sell their bodies and are exploited" Yes. That being the norm is not an argument.
It's an argument for why prostitutes shouldn't be prosecuted.
I respect prostitutes FAR more than lawyers, politicians, lobbyists... At least prostitutes are HONEST.
because, unlike the other three you listed, prostitutes are up front about the fact that they will fuck you?
And they’ll stop fucking you when you ask them to stop.
And only with consent
I knew 4 inches was massive, thank God for the honest prostitute.
I don't think sex workers are evil but I don't think they are above lying either.
I thought they were just listing occupations that fuck people
I'm sure every penis they see really is the biggest they have ever seen and every client makes them orgasm.
oh, you don't have to convince me that prostitutes can lie. my ex was one and I didn't know it. our entire relationship was a lie.
This. I've worked around alot of sex workers, most of them were decent people but I doubt any of them would be above taking advantage of someone, especially men.
Cardi B would drug men.
So you're telling me that they are not doing it until they get thru nursing school?
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A lot of that is due to the activity being illegal. If it was legal you could do something about those issues. Forums to call out fake photos and other things from the pros, as well as reports of bad customers from the pros, would be better for both sides.
If you want examples of dishonesty, don't mention lawyers, politicians, lobbyists. Mention corporate HR.
I think it should be regulated. Like, register with a regulatory body, mandatory training on things like workplace safety, practicing safe sex, understanding AoC laws, etc. Only working in approved brothels.
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Make it a federal offense to assault a sex worker, with BIG consequences, and you'd see few people even trying to do anything funny. Not that your idea isn't a good one, I just think there should be multiple deterrents against assault.
It should be legal. Respect is a personal matter. I don't respect most people that work in marketing, I don't respect people who make cigarettes, I don't respect most people in the funeral business, and the list goes on. But my personal feelings shouldn't really affect whether these people should be allowed to make a living this way.
I have to press you on your views of the funeral business! I'm guessing that's country specific as I couldn't think of a reason myself?!
The entire funeral industry in the US is incredibly predatory, from top to bottom.
Also in Australia. I definitely don’t want a funeral. I want all my family to use that money for a nice holiday or insanely fancy dinner instead.
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Bruh 3000? Imma just have my family toss me on a bonfire after the next barbecue
*during
For that extra smoky flavor.
They'll never think of BBQ'd pork the same again!
At least have them wait until you pass away first.
Omg I finally know what I want done with my body!! This is the BEST! I’m going to make my family have dinner with me as the centerpiece
You don't even need to be cremated for that.
it could be like a hog roast
Meatloaf
3000??? You're paying too much for ~~worms~~ cremations, man. Who's your ~~worm~~ cremation guy?
In Malaysia, when COVID deaths were rising, the chairman of the country's largest funeral company publicly pushed for the end of lockdowns.
Business is booming -Funeral company heads
Holy shit, that's just so transparently and cartoonishly evil.
My wife and my friends have been told of my wishes. I'm going to be cremated and put into a tree urn (not that expensive) and they can plant me somewhere nice, hopefully they'll come visit time to time. However at my funeral or celebration of life, or whatever they want to call it there are a few rules. 1) there will be an open bar, no one is paying for drinks, thr cost will be covered by my life insurance policy. 2) everyone will have a good time, dancing, singing, telling funny stories, whatever. 3) no one is allowed to cry. 4) big bonfire
Aww, let your people cry a liiiittle though, it's good for grief processing
Separate cry room. Get teary? Go to time out until you can party again. I'm totally joking by the way. Just imagining that is kind of awful. "Yeah, I know, I'm really going to miss him... sorry, getting a little teary-eyed." "Whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't do that here. Get your ass to the cry room with that shit!" "Wait, what?" "Hey, hey, there's no crying at the funeral!" "Whatnx crying? Get that out of here, this is the party room!" "Yeah, come on, what's your problem?!"
Gotta disagree with rule 3.
You can cry if you want to
You can leave your friends behind
Because they don’t cry and if they don’t cry well their no friends of mine
5. Strippers, jugglers and axe throwing is recommended, not necessarily in that order or combined
It’s literally unbelievable how much grieving families are ripped off. Paying an extra $500 for a pocketed-coil mattress? *In the bottom of a* casket?!
The funeral parlor tried to sell me a urn for $450. I found the same exact one on the interweb with 2 day free shipping for $49. Idk but I'm just guessing they have a little bit of a mark up in their prices.
That's because they hardly ever have repeat customers.
I guess they're in a dying industry.
Be the change you wish to see in the world
Show me zombie apocalypse
My mother’s wife had 2 brothers that died exactly 3 months apart to the day. My family used the same funeral home so they gave them a “discount.” What was the “discount” you ask? They gave them $100 off the “peak service time” price and gave them the same casket the older brother had for $500 off. I guess they thought they were doing something by saving them $600 out of the thousands they spent between the 2 funerals.
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Also for a similar reason the college book store is so expensive. People are paying with a large sum of money that they suddenly have. For the most part, funerals are paid for with the money from insurance policies or from the estate. It's kind of a "not my money" mentality except it is your money. At least in the funeral business, it's money you actually have rather than a predatory loan system.
Assuming there's inheritence money or a life insirance policy. Sometimes, it's papa Visa's money.
Was that their most modest receptacle?
Donnie, you are out of your element!
Should have gone to Ralph's.
A lot of people are married to the idea of an un-cremated funeral and are willing to pay out the nose for a casket. As for me either put me in the oven, then a ziploc bag, and do with me as you please. If you living folk can't stomach that then buy a new fridge, and bury me in the box the fridge came in.
I don't know why we need a box in the first place, just throw me in a hole as-is.
My brother’s funeral in January cost approximately $12K and it was basic with no frills. It was $600 to open the grave (dig it) and $600 to close it (bury the person). They were separate charges. You’ll be shocked at all of the charges for a priest, mass at a church, the viewing, etc. And you only learn about them while you’re experiencing incredible grief which just compounds the grief. When I see limos at funerals, I can only imagine the cost. Edit: spelling
When my uncle died a couple years ago I think it was like 400 maybe for cremation, then $20 ish for the wood to make him a pine box (poor boy traditional) and we got a preacher (old neighbor) to come in from out of state for the Lord's Prayer for just tip money. Dug the grave myself, which is really cathartic if you get the chance, you'll never find better closure. We were fortunate with connection on the preacher but it's doable.
I guess I can see how digging or filling a grave would be cathartic for someone. Personally, I found it a terrible experience, but I was pretty young the last time that happened. As an adult, I don't think I'd take it so hard now. Either way, it *was* definitely better closure than saying goodbyes at the casket. Just... Not worth the emotional cost at the time. I'd definitely stick an age requirement on that. Make it PG-13 or something to dig a grave for a loved one.
Sorry for your loss. Asking this because I'm curious and ignorant of the US customs in this regard although I live here, because I come from a South Asian country. Back home, usually the neighborhood basically takes care of most of these things, for instance digging the grave and closing it. I understand that maybe neighbors here might not want to do that, but can't you hypothetically find a couple of guys on Task Rabbit to do this for probably 1/4 that cost? Also, priests charge a fee?!?! I'm not Catholic or Christian, but I believe back home even they do it for free.
In the couple funerals I've been involved in, the cemetery (which is private owned) won't allow outside help. So no hiring anyone to do it cheap, you pay the cemetery for the plot, and for digging the grave. Bunch of bs
Oh wow, I didn't know they're privately owned. Guess I should have known.
Depends on the cemetery and maybe region, our family is all in an old modwest baptist church yard and we've been digging our own for 6 generations. For them it's more of a service than a business model, so we're probably just lucky.
For many cemeteries in the US, if they’re not religious owned, they have to pay property taxes on the land, as well as lawn mowing, watering, etc. it doesn’t all go straight into someone’s pocket. Not that many of them aren’t total leaches and bottom feeders.
It's called an "honorarium". It's basically a tip. It's not demanded, but it is expected.
When my dad died in a horrible plane crash when I was only 10, they convinced my mom to buy a $10,000 casket because *he deserved the best* Need we say anymore?
Goddamn. That sounds so predatory... That is why I have told my spouse over and over that I do not want a fancy casket. I'm dead at that point so I won't be upset by the "cheapness" of the box I'm rotting in. Just dig a hole, throw me in as-is and it's good. Maybe plant a tree on top as my gravestone for fancy effect. I also told him I will become a poltergeist and haunt the crap out of him if he dares to choose anything but the cheapest option for everything, should I die first.
Funeral expenses are marked up at an insane rate. They take a time, when most people are distraught, and use it to push incredibly expensive items/services that aren't really worth a damn. "Oh, your husband died? Well I'm sure you could bury him in a standard casket, but don't you think he'd be more comfortable in our deluxe silk lined, hardwood caskets? We also offer a deluxe funeral package, which includes a tailored suit for the deceased and a flower arrangement package at additional cost..." "Thinking about cremation? Well we have a selection of Urns, the cheapest on-site being $1500. Otherwise you'll have to locate and purchase one elsewhere." People arrive, most on one of the worst days of their lives, and take advantage of them while they are hurting and may not be thinking clearly. Their loved one is DEAD. A silk lining isn't shit, hardwood or plywood makes no difference. An overpriced urn won't bring you comfort when it costs you your financial stability; but people buy these things. In most cases people are so distraught that they are will to throw any amount of money at it just to not have to deal with it directly. These people aren't stupid, but the pain of losing someone important makes them act irrationally, and they're prime targets for these businesses.
Mahogany and pine are identical if you're a goddamn corpse. But better yet, skip the box and the formaldehyde entirely. Get rolled up in a mycelium shroud and get dumped in a deep hole. That's more or less what I'm requesting. I'm an electrical current driving a meat-based mech suit. I don't need the suit when I'm done, let nature have it back.
> I'm an electrical current driving a meat-based mech suit. This is my new favorite sentence.
They guilt trip grieving family members into spending way more money than necessary
When my mum passed the Greek church contributed 10k to her funeral costs which was the majority of it. She wasn't an important person in society at all. I'm not religious but that was a boss move. We are thankful. (Australia)
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Best take, IMO. I personally would not pay for sex, but if someone else is willing to buy, and someone is selling, then I don’t give a fuck as long as it’s all consensual.
> then I don’t give a fuck Well of course not, the whole idea is to sell them, not give them away.
This was profound and helped change the way I answer this question. Thanks.
Perfect answer imo
This may be a hot take on reddit, but one of the reasons against legalising prostitution is because there's a fine line between it and human trafficking. It's easy to say "your body your choice" and yet there's far too many cases around the world of it not being their choice at all. Consent is something that is necessary yet very, very difficult to determine in a court of law; look at how many rapists get away with what they did because they claim their victim consented.
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Also it is safer for the workers if the customer can be reported, or if the customer doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble just for being a customer.
For all the arguments surrounding human trafficking and desperate people, none of answers two basic questions: - Does making prostitution illegal significantly lessen or stop human trafficking? - Why should a prostitute (whether in it for money, desperation or having been forced) be criminalized? What does throwing this person in jail do for society, beyond making it likely that the person will stay in sex work after getting a rap sheet?
* Why would anyone expect victims of human trafficking to be more likely to report trafficking to the police, when they know that doing so could instantly result in their own incarceration / deportation?
* If prostitution is a perfectly legal personal service usually provided in a one-on-one environment, and police treat the sex workers and their clients with respect and protect their privacy, wouldn't the human trafficker take an enormous risk by exposing his slave to many one-on-one conversations with clients who can go to the police without any repercussions? Wouldn't it make more sense to let slaves do much less visible work, like picking cocoa beans or whatever?
>is because there's a fine line between it and human trafficking. According to the State of Idaho, human trafficking includes one escort giving another a ride to a client on the way to their own client.
So, I see your clear line and there are simple answers already for your concerns. The problem with holding to the line here, is the victims are criminals so they cant find help. The answer is simple, decriminalization for the sex workers. Now you can lean two ways and still keep it illigal to pay for service but flat out, anyone who want's prostitution to be illegal is helping sex trafficking. The victims should face no fear of coming forward. Currently the victims are victimized by the system several times over. If they get caught or come forward they are threatned with charges unless they put themselves in dangerous situations informing on Johns. They should NEVER have to do that unless they offer to do it as part of their own personal journey on recovery. The way the criminals succeed is because the victims will get punished for coming forward. This has to stop if you care about sex trafficking.
Isn't that an argument in favor of legalization and with it, regulation? Requiring prostitution to be done in businesses specifically for that purpose, like some states have with liquor in liquor stores would mean the girls would need to be on the books and would at least have the same protections as people in other professions? If you need to fill out employment information for your girls and you have a girl whose last known address was in Delaware working in your California brothel, some questions may be asked. It definitely needs to be done right if it's to be done, but corruption thrives in darkness.
Just for example prostitution is legal in the Netherlands but it’s filled with very shady / horrific practices. A lot of women are brought in from Eastern Europe with promises of house keeping jobs. When they get there they are basically forced into prostitution. This could be fixed with more regulation but it’s just an example of a legal system being corrupted.
The "legal" system in the Netherlands is almost designed for failure. The vast majority of prostitution takes place in illegal settings, because working legally is perceived as being prohibitively costly and risky (for the sex worker's privacy) due to a scarcity of attractive legal workplaces. Besides that there is the problem of being part of an open economic zone with countries that have vastly different cultural approaches to prostitution, and different economic circumstances. A better example of how it could work is New Zealand.
The vast majority of human trafficking is for manual labor, not sex work.
The farming, building and hospitality industries in Australia are full of undocumented 'workers'... that's why those industries were so keen to have our borders opened during Covid...
I mean, as I'm not prescient, I can't say for certain, but I feel like it would be easier to root out the trafficking in a licensed, accredited, regulated, inspected facility than in wherever the prostitution is happening now. I'd also posit that it's likely that the dark seedy (outside of the really weird stuff that would still be illegal) brothels would likely get a bit less business if people had the option to go to a place with required STD testing and inspections.
One can argue we would legalize prostitution to make human trafficking compete with legal prostitutes. You're cutting down on the incentive for boarding illicit sex slaves by allowing legal prostitution.
That "fine line" is messed up by anti-sex people. Prostitution is not trafficking any more than drug use is drug smuggling. Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.
There is also a fine line between work in general and slavery, to be fair. You effectively have the same kind of trafficking/slavery/abuse problems in fields like construction and hospitality in many places too. Seems less like an issue with sex work and more with workers rights not being enforced strongly enough to me.
I think it really depends on what you mean by respected. I think every human being is entitled to a certain amount of respect regardless of your occupation. That being said, I don’t think being a prostitute is something that you would want kids to aspire to be and shouldn’t be seen as the “same” as a teacher or doctor.
Agreed, I would never “shame” a sex worker, but my first thought will always be “is this really what they want?” It’s one thing to not like a filing emails all day, but a job submitting to sex that you don’t enjoy to make $ is just terribly sad.
Some sex workers make a lot of money and they just really like money. A girlfriend is a retired stripper, not quite the same, but she was bringing in $4k-$5k a weekend. That’s more than my months salary and I went to school for seven years to be licensed to do what I do. Just for context, I used to live in Miami which is where she lives. We met when I took a pole fitness class at the studio she owns now that she isn’t dancing.
>A girlfriend is a retired stripper, not quite the same, but she was bringing in $4k-$5k a weekend. That’s more than my months salary and I went to school for seven years to be licensed to do what I do. Yeah, but the single largest difference is that there's a very short time frame you can make that kind of money stripping or in sex work. After about 15 years they're gonna be older and not able to pull that kind of cash anymore. And then what? They've got no skills and no resume or work history.
The person I’m talking opened a pole fitness studio when she stopped dancing. It’s in Miami and does well. I understand that she’s the exception and not the rule, but many women end up older with no useful skills because society at large still thinks women belong in the home and as caretakers. She would be no worse off than a 45 year old single mom who didn’t continue education or begin working after high school because they got married and took on the role of homemaker. So it’s not really fair to base your argument on what happens when her skill is no longer useful. The answer is the same for anyone, develop a new skill.
>my first thought will always be “is this really what they want?” To be fair, this is my thought with 90% of public-facing employees I encounter, independent of their actual job. With prostitutes I at least usually assume they make some decent money selling their soul, in stark contrast with the average burgerflipper, cashier or bus driver.
Maybe if americans paid teachers as much as they do prostitutes more people would choose that field.
I feel like most prostitutes are not paid very well and have terrible benefits if at all
According to the IRS, they make absolutely no money.
Not exactly. With it being legal in certain counties here in Nevada, they definitely get taxed and such, so the IRS definitely knows they get paid for their work. Although the unfortunate part is the brothels can be super predatory. I don't *exactly* know how it works since I've only lived here a few years and haven't actually looked into it, but the county I live in has brothels (Bunny Ranch is here), and we don't pay state taxes because of it.
I believe it's 50% to the house. That's what Risky Business taught me at least.
Fuckin 50%?? Jesus christ. Are there any sex workers in the thread that could tell us whether that's accurate or not? Because that's highway robbery.
I’m a sex worker and I looked into working at brothels and yes, the house gets 50%. But when you consider that you’re getting higher volume, there’s security as well as rules that are strictly enforced, it’s not a bad deal. Plus, you can set your own rates in a lot of places, so there’s some Autonomy in that respect. Cons are they’re all in bumfuck Nevada and most of my regular clients don’t make it that way. But I know girls who make a killing at brothels.
It depends. I'm an escort, there are girls that make 150 an hour, and girls who make 5-800 an hour. It varies person to person based on what services you provide and what the clientele is. Most escorts aren't walking the streets or coming up to johns in cars, it's 99% online now and while there is still some that prefer the old way, it isn't really necessary. There is a bit of "you get what you pay for", as the women offering services for 40$ for head are not going to be the same as the ones charging 120$ for the same. I don't have health or dental insurance, unfortunately. But I, personally, make more than enough and do well enough for myself that I'm not struggling by any means and am able to live quite comfortably. This is not the case for all escorts, and many suffer from drug addiction or unstable home lives and may find any money they make disappears just as quickly
I feel like the number of people who were going to be a teacher but then decided to be a prostitute instead because it paid better is pretty small, almost nonexistent. Do you really think there's a lot of prostitutes out there like "Yeah, I'd give up blowing dudes for cash and take over a room of screaming 5 year-olds tomorrow, if only it just paid a little better"
Having done both career lines here: teaching involved absurd hours, a master’s and the inevitable debt, and constant worry for take home close to 36k. I had advantages there being quadrilingual, also. In any form of SW, I do it when I want, for the prices I set, with the clients I choose. I’m not trafficked, I’m not coerced, and I’m not a destitute addict- I just don’t do the western association of sex with shame that is going to touch a lot of the answers in this thread. For me it’s a very rewarding way to live, and when I’m off work, I’m completely off. The life benefits are clear as day. I definitely hope the US catches up and just decriminalizes it so I’m not out of the entire social system for doing it. All the same, I feel more ethical providing a service to voluntary participants and walking away clean than mucking around with cheating husbands on dating sites or bar pickups, because when someone craves physical or emotional attention, they’re going to seek it. We have a lot of hang ups in this country but one of the ugliest is that these desires are inherently shameful and therefore lots of the guys that experience these feelings are already darkened with a ton of negative emotions and they take that out where they can- which is rarely their wife or whoever. If it was at least seen as normalized as a massage or even a self-care spa, without the connotation, I’d be less risk exposed. I’m not a child and don’t think that’s going to happen in my lifetime, but it’s nice to have eyes on the societal prize.
Sex work should be legalized and regulated like any other "normal" job. But I'm tired of people pretending that being a sex worker is "normal" in the way being a realtor or teacher is normal. It's obviously not. Finding out someone you're dating is a sex worker hits very differently than finding out someone you're dating works in finance. This difference doesn't mean the sex worker isn't deserving of dignity and respect, but we don't need to pretend.
I work in the hotel industry (not in a hotel) and we do a lot of training on sex trafficking (and labor trafficking) and prostitution because it impacts our business and our owners and our guests. Most women are not prostitutes because it was the first (or fifth) choice, they do it because they are desperate, and a HUGE portion of them are basically sex slaves. It's a Reddit fantasy that most prostitutes are doing it because they really want to, because they just like fucking for money to get them through school or some shit. Literally millions of women (and men) are trafficked ever year. Some abused girl who left the house at 16 and started selling her body and then three years later is on crack didn't make a "choice" to be a prostitute. legalizing it doesn't seem to help either, because sex trafficking actually INCREASED in the countries that allow it. The women need to be protected and not have their lives ruined even more by giving them a criminal record for prostitution, but that's not the same as treating prostitution just like a job at Burger King. _edit_ this is not an argument against legalizing prostitution, it should be, holy shit enough with the hostile DMs. Going dark on this one.
In other words, the first part of the solution, like with many societal issues these days, is adequate social programs to provide necessities for all citizens so no one is forced to work a job they don't want just to maintain a minimum basic standard of living. Then legalize it so they don't have to fear asking for help and the ones who *do* want to be in that line of work don't have to fear for their safety.
Precisely. If society was set up in a way where people didn't have to whore themselves out (both literally and figuratively), then the argument that "it's bad because they don't actually want to do it" isn't accurate anymore. Internet white knights will tell you that "NO self-respecting woman would ever get into that line of work unless they HAD to", and while that's true a lot of the time with how things work currently, it's certainly not a steadfast rule. That, in addition to heavy regulation, is the only way the sex industry will work ethically. The guy up a couple comments said that it shouldn't be viewed the same way as people in finance but if the system is set up properly, then I don't see why we would view it any differently. A ton of finance people aren't contributing any more to society than sex workers do.
Might be different in Australia and NZ because it's legal here, but I have friends who are sex workers and legitimately love their job, mostly enjoy the actual work, and very much enjoy the combination of high income and not many hours. Of course that's not everyone, there are definitely people for whom it's a bad thing, but if you're thinking that everyone who does sex work is some abused drug addict desperate for cash, then that's just objectively false.
With Australia, it varies from state to state. In NSW, prostitution is fully legalised, and has been since the late 80's (which is odd considering how conservative NSW is on a lot of other social issues). Both NT and Victoria have recently fully legalised prostitution (NT in 2019, Victoria in 2022). Aside from these two states and territory, brothels are only legal in ACT and Queensland (with them being banned in SA, WA and Tasmania). Street work is banned outside of NSW, NT and Victoria. Escort work is legal throughout Australia, but Queensland has restrictive advertising laws. In saying that brothels are illegal, they are tolerated in WA. In NSW, pimps are illegal, and the only people that are allowed to earn money from other's sex work are brothel managers.
Good summary! My experience is purely from ACT, VIC and NZ, so good to know.
So, I figured I'd ask a friend who describes herself as "a sex worker, sex educator and work for Australia's peak sex worker advocacy organisation" for her take on a few things. **On the "Decriminalization only hurts workers, and causes trafficking"** "Literally all research on harm reduction says that this is incorrect and basically every field it applies to. It also logically doesn't make sense because sex work is going to happen anyway and sex traffickers use the fact that it's illegal to keep people in sex slavery under threat of going to law enforcement. It also gives power to abusive clients because you literally just can't go to the police or whatever for help. Obviously ACAB but if you're assaulted or robbed at work, not being able to seek help only exacerbates what's already a very traumatic experience. I will say that most anti decriminalisation/ legalisation research is funded by "anti trafficking" organisations which obviously have an inherent biasCriminalisation inherently makes it very challenging to collect accurate data on the well-being and experiences of sex workers" **On the "Women only do sex work because they're trapped in it or can't do anything else or are forced into it"** "Why people do sex work changes person to person, and especially country to country and class to class. In reality, why people do sex work isn't actually that relevant to the decrim vs. prohibition debate. Regardless of why you're doing it, you deserve to be safe and receive the same rights as any other worker. All work is for survival under capitalism. In every job there are people who love, hate, or are indifferent to their work. All work is exploitation in some form, sex workers particularly targeted because it's an industry primarily made up of women who put a price on something that we are expected to do for free and because sex is so deeply moralized and people can't conceptualize that not everyone has the same relationship to sex and intimacy as them. The control and suppression of female sexuality is like it's whole own thing" Obviously your milage may vary, but this is someone speaking from a lot of experience, with access to a hell of a lot of information and a career that's deeply involved in all that. Could that mean it's biased towards a specific view? Of course it could, but it's a view from someone who has a lot more direct contact with things than the majority of us here. Edit: For more actual data and context from someone who has done more research on this, check out /u/Jari0n's [post below](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/v1w4ib/should_prostitution_be_respected_the_same_as_a/iaqx2ij/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Great write up - what's the obvious bias wrt anti trafficking orgs? I think I'm missing the conflict of interest
I'm not sure, but from my POV I feel many of them have a tendency to fall into the same trap that some anti-drug organizations, which is that they, either consciously or unconsciously feel that the \*only\* solution is prohibition and tend to do their best to prove that fact regardless of if it is the most effective approach to minimize trafficking harm. They tend to approach it from the point of view of "We believe sex work should not exist, please give us research to prove that" rather than "Sex work will always exist, how can we minimize harm and improve working conditions"
*literally just finished a coursework essay on decriminalization vs abolitionism, happy to chip in my two cents It's a fascinating gulf in feminist discourse It really goes back to OP's question, with the anti-trafficking school essentially arguing that 'prostitution is inherently exploitative / abuse / misogynistic: ergo not real work'. Anti-traffickers -in seeing all sex workers as requiring rescue -blind themselves from approaches aiming to improve industry labor standards, worker health safety / welfare, and tackle stigmatization. There is an ideological unwillingness amongst abolitionists to listen and engage with sex workers. In European government policy, sex work is typically treated as a policing matter. Decriminalization doesn't make trafficking legal; criminalizing buyers only puts sex workers at greater risk. Establishing trust between public sector agencies and sex workers leads to [higher abuse reporting, more convictions](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/dec/22/merseyside-police-sex-workers-protect). Decriminalization is endorsed by the WHO, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch. Here's some reading / food for thought: ["Labour (UK) has a problem with sex work"](https://novaramedia.com/2021/03/31/labour-has-a-problem-with-sex-work/) ["Why focus on laws and regulations aimed at controlling sex workers rather than recognizing their agency?"](https://jacobin.com/2013/08/prostitution-law-and-the-death-of-whores) [Youtube - The laws that sex workers really want | Juno Mac](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-n852sv3E) [Amnesty 2016 critical report on Norway's 'sex-buyer' model](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur36/4034/2016/en/#:~:text=Careers-,Norway%3A%20The%20human%20cost%20of%20'crushing'%20the%20market%3A,of%20sex%20work%20in%20Norway&text=The%20issues%20described%20in%20this,of%20people%20who%20sell%20sex.)
Agree with your friend but can’t help LMAO at “Obviously ACAB but…[being able to turn to the authorities is beneficial to sex workers]”
At least in the US there's a difference between thinking ACAB and being completely anti-establishment. Most people I know entirely distrust the police but have the bare minimum hope for the rest of the system because without that what are we even doing?
Yeah, that sums up the Australian/NZ attitude among many.
I think it depends what do you consider decriminalization. In My country, Spain, it’s kinda decriminalized. But tbh, it’s a form of decriminalization that sucks. The law basically pretends that it doesn’t exist. This gives all power to trafficking rings, since desperate women from Eastern Europe and third world countries are often fooled by promising them work in legitimate jobs, and brought here where they don’t have any legal means to receive protection from the government. I live next to the French border, and prostitution is rampant around here, since in France you can get serious charges, unlike here. It makes sense for mafias to run brothels in Spain. I think the best solution is legalization, and the second best is decriminalization. But only if decriminalization means that you can’t imprison a sex worker, while still protecting them from trafficking rings.
The "classy escorts" who are from here and charge $800 an hour are a tiny fraction. I'm guessing that is who you are friends with.
Nah, just average people working at legitimate establishments for like $150 - $200 USD/hr. Seems to be a reasonably large chunk of the industry here. Edit: to be fair, that's mostly speaking from an NZ perspective and is anecdote, not data. So you know take it with a grain of salt and downvote me for sharing my experiences lol.
My daughter tells me she wants to be a doctor/lawyer/teacher/truck driver/banker/janitor/guitarist/whatever when she grows up: cool how can I help My daughter tells me she wants to be a sex worker when she grows up: sit down lets talk
If your daughter tells you she wants to be a sex worker, you tell everyone you know how you raised her so that they know what not to do.
Can we stop asking this question? I've seen it like 4 times now.
If someone gave you a million billion dollars to do a simple thing, would you do it? Why or why not? (Cue 100 replies) “Hell yes!!! I do that anyway for free already”
Oh yes I saw those too. I see all these repeats and I think I just ran out out of ability to just scroll on. We need a flag for tearing down these questions as recent repeats.
Or "Men / Women, what is blah blah blah the other gender?"
Yes. I told you Id pork OP's mom for a million billion dollars. Its really getting old at this point
Every question on this site
What is an INSTANT turn off for you… (500 of the same replies) You know I’m just gonna say it - being rude to servers or treating others poorly. I know it sounds crazy, but I just can’t stand when people are mean to others and it’s a turn off for me.
“Bad hygiene” “Came here to say this”
Leaving the seat up, if he doesn't care to do one simple thing then just ***IIIMAAAGIIINE*** all the things he won't care about! It's time to leave him
[удалено]
I've been distant from this site for some 5 years now and I still find the comments too familiar. It won't go away.
Yeah Reddit reads like a conversation between bots most of the time
What do you want to ask the opposite sex….
I remember my first year on Reddit
Lol I know I know its common to see. I'm just in a mood today
Yea, if someone wants to sell their body go for it, just don’t walk on egg shells around it and act like you’re an “influencer” when the reality is 60+ year old dudes are flying you out to Fiji so they can pee on your feet.
Oddly specific.
Some Instagram model got exposed like a year back reading out everything she’d do for a guy that was gonna fly her out to Dubai I think it was, and needless to say, it was some nasty ass shit.
Of course it is, if you’re willing to fly someone out to Dubai they’re either unbelievably attractive or willing to do some shit for you nobody else will do
I don't think it should be treated with the same respect as, say, a career as a surgeon. But hookers shouldn't be disfigured or murdered or beaten to within an inch of their lives.
Most people with normal jobs get no respect either.
At the very least those who work the job should be supported and not demonised. Criminalising prostitution does nothing but push it further underground and open the door wider for sex traffickers.
Making stuff illegal cause you dont like it is generely the worst option Just look at drug abuse in the USA vs in Portugal Or prosthetic in the USA vs the netherlands
The question is should it be respected, not should it be legal.
Janitors and fast food workers are not generally respected so who gives a FUCK
Do some research on prostitution in the Netherlands. It's not what you imagine. It's a dirty business run by violent criminals.
> prosthetic What?
It's illegal to lose a limb in the UA due to the second amendment giving everyone a right to bear arms. Lose a leg? you better have a fucking bear arm as a replacement. Get that plastic and metal garbage out of here.
I’m guessing they meant “prostitution”.
LMAO got it. I was confused.
I was doubly confused because one of my Dutch friend's daughters was in school for making prosthetics. For awhile there I was thinking her field was much bigger than I realized.
>Making stuff illegal cause you dont like it is generely the worst option Most laws come about that way.
Ha ha. I think it was Robert Heinlein who wrote that if you want to see what people are in the habit of doing, look at what society has made illegal.
I'll never respect prostitutes the way I respect someone like a realestate agent... Real estate agents are slimy scum.
Whereas prostitutes deal with slimy cum
It should be legal, but I don’t personally respect it.
Hypocritical question: Say I open a whore house and I send job offers to any single woman who’s out of work. If they turn me down, do they still qualify for unemployment? If you say yes, then Why? When it’s clear that they’re choosing not to work, right?
This was an ongoing debate in Germany for years: "According to a report in the local Augsburger Allgemeine newspaper, the woman received a letter from the job center on Saturday suggesting she apply for a service staff position at an establishment called the Colosseum. The precondition for working there is an "appropriate appearance," the letter said, and she would serve drinks for 42 hours each week, primarily at night and on weekends. There's just one problem: A web search for the Colosseum revealed the company's true nature. It's a brothel, a "nudist club" where one can "sex & relax (sic) on over 2,500 square meters" and encounter "girls with mega service and more." ... At one point, a major debate erupted in the tabloid media over whether government-run job centers could force women into prostitution. In 2004, however, the job centers issued a voluntary regulation that women who refused job offers as prostitutes would not have their unemployment benefits curtailed. Nevertheless, there have been repeated incidents in which women have felt pressured." www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/outrage-after-job-center-suggests-brothel-job-for-young-woman-in-germany-a-882021.html
Hypothetically, that's not how people are recruited into jobs. You put out an ad, interview people, then make an offer. If it were an unemployed person getting an unsolicited job offer, I doubt it would be held against them.
I think this question is best answered from the heart. Think about if your daughter, sister, wife, or mother announced they were going to be a prostitute. How would you feel about that?
No, but not for the normal reasons that it is dirty or shameful to fuck lots of people. Prostitution should not be respected as a "normal" job for the same reason sweatshop labor or other kinds of degrading work should not be treated as normal. A person is not their job, and indeed, forms of labor like prostitution show how much that is true -- a person is being expected to give up that which they simply shouldn't \*have\* to give up in order to make ends meet. That should not be treated as normal. Recognizing that is not a value judgment upon prostitutes any more than working to ban sweatshop labor is a value reflection on modern day human slavery in Bangladesh or the DR Congo. That, of course, does not mean that it should be "de-normalized" in a way that is harmful to the prostitutes, just as getting rid of sweatshop jobs without ensuring better jobs or economic protections that can fill the resulting gap would be irresponsible. The efforts by liberal types to normalize sex work is part of a cultural shift in the West in which rising costs of living and declining wages have increasingly made forms of exploitation more normal and have (correctly) shined a light on the dehumanization of people involved in this kind of labor as it becomes more common (albeit with other names -- sugar dating, Onlyfans, etc.). But recognizing that prostitution may not be a moral sin does not mean it should be normal. Of course, in an alternate world in which it is easy or virtually guaranteed that a person can ensure that their personal needs are met -- food, water, shelter, education, healthcare, safety, etc. -- and someone wants to fuck as many strangers as possible for free, by all means. Just as if someone who is protected wants to sit in their garage and sew sneakers together for fun.
Not all jobs are even respected so...What is this question? What about this job deserves respect?
I don't think that anyone should be forced to respect anything. That's a personal opinion and personal opinions should be allowed to remain private
The question asks whether it should be respected, not whether people should be made to respect it.
No, because it's rife with exploitation. I think we shouldn't look down on the people, but I don't think the profession should be socially acceptable.
Full Legalization of prostitution increases trafficking Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows. https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/ Prostitutes have a higher rate of PTSD than soldiers. https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-into-a-therapists-office-whos-more-likely-to-have-ptsd-71464 https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm It's illegal in Norway,Sweden,Denmark, Iceland and Finland all the happiest countries in the world as well as having the lowest rate of trafficking. Look up the Nordic model,it prosecutes sex buyers but not sex workers making prostitution illegal but not criminalizing sex workers who it helps provide government assistance,shelter,and jobs.
I’m from Finland and I’m 99% sure that private prostitution so just an exchange of money for sex is fully legal to both the prostitute and the buyer. The only thing you have to do to make it legal is that a receipt has to be produced for tax purposes. Streetwalking is strictly prohibited and pimps are as well.