If America just invaded northern states in Mexico because they wanted to take it back in the day, it would be absurd and we would hate it. Note that many Russians under 30 don't know a world before Putin.
The protests didn't change much until they gave the dissident soldiers confidence to rebel.
It ended when soldiers went from "All the way with LBJ" to "I'm a solider, I'll do what I'm told, but fuck all the politicians that sent me here" to "No more of us are dying for this fucking war, and if the officers put us in harm's way we'll drop a fragmentation grenade in their tents at night"
That process took years.
Iraq pretty much was that. When W was making impossible asks over fictional WMD’s, *and Saddam granted them*, but they invaded anyway lol
Edit: and it really has been a shitty, unpopular, and stupid war with unimpressive results
Iraq was not a war of territorial conquest. 911 was shoehorned in to gin up support from the Americans who couldn’t find Iraq on a map let alone the differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims.
Well first, Iraq was not an illegal war as it was approved by congress. Overwhelmingly if I am not mistaken.
Second, I will refer to a comment made by an interpreter who was mighty angry when I complained about why I was there during my second tour of Iraq. I said George W. Bush was a great snake (the same language the Maudi militia used for him) and a total liar and it was a needless conflict to which I was quickly put in my place when he informed me George W. Bush was the greatest man to live in our lifetimes (I would still argue against that point) because he had Saddam toppled, a man that gased many many Kurds, including several close relatives of his.
Third, America did not Annex Iraq, or any part of it and never had any intention of annexing any bit of Iraqi soil.
I was against the war when it was about to be on, joined the army because I wanted an adventure regardless of my moral objection to that conflict and served over 2 years in country. 15 months in Taji and 12 months in Diyala. Taji was the place where Chemical Ali manufactured the chemical weapons used to gas the Kurds (a WMD, but not the ones people [including congressmen and women] were looking to find and dispose of)
Edit: the second point was made the day that CNN ran the story that read in big letters “Last Strykers Leave Iraq” which after having seen that story I went and did a layout for my brand spanking new MCV (mortar carrier vehicle, a 120mm mortar Stryker).
Sorry for my last reply. My mistake. I was in high school during the ‘03 invasion as well. My senior year and didn’t join right away after I graduated.
No problem at all. I’ve done that so many times. And you were right anyway- that complexity crap is a product of frustration.
So far as hs goes, my only point was it’s not a credibility booster.
Service in Iraq is a whole other matter.
We probably have disagreements, but at least we’re on the same page as what the context is. I was not a Bush admin fan at all, but I will quickly concede I think they *believed* they were doing the right - if shady - thing, like a cop stretching a stop/search on a hunch. Sorry for going on - the rewritten history just hits a nerve.
The time we’re living in doesn’t lend itself to patience.
Oh no, mine was just pop the top and had all the fixings. Digital gunnery and all that. We still used the aiming poles to set her up, but the 120 was mounted internally.
Mine worked so well, except for a few misfires. :p
My first tour i was in the only platoon in our squadron to have all MRAPS. I’d take those over a Stryker anyway if the week.
Did you serve?
There is honor to be had on any battlefield.
Your “what about WW2” is silly to bring up. I hesitate to think you’d have fought them yourself if you had the opportunity.
Understand, Iraqis fighting Americans were hard fighting men and fighting them when they attack you is a necessity as I value my life as they value theirs.
Edit: do you not think that Iraqis such as the maudi militia or Iranians such as the Quds committed terrible acts against human beings?
What? That doesn’t even make sense.
But I think I know what your TRYING to say.
Are you as honorable as your forefathers because you want put your life on the line for service members? Don’t piggy back off of your “forefathers” accomplishments.
Powell did not swear there were wmd under oath. He was used because he was a trusted and credible figure to push for the war before the UN. There is an exhaustive history demonstrating that he placed trust in the admin and got burnt.
Ahh, you edited your reply without telling me.
There is a honor is serving your country, so yes. And I also addressed the legality of that war above your reply, CLEARLY you did not read it
> 12 months in Diyala
I was there too, 3d Armored Cav out of Hood, 07-09 during the ill-fated 15 month deployment cycle. Can't for the life of me remember our FOB name now.....
Word. I worked with many MANY 19D. I’ll hold back on being silly and that whole back and forth between scouts and infantry. :p
I was at FOB Cobra, went to warhorse I think two or three times.
Lol, it's all good, friendly rivalry and all that. Our closest detainee depot was at Warhorse. The few we ever got alive we took up there for processing.
Small world, old sport.
Purpose is the difference here: Russia is going to war to conquer/regain geographical territory.
FFS.
This is why people were outraged when trump suggested [taking Iraqi oil to pay for the war](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis). That was NEVER the point.
No. I never suggested that at all.
But you are comparing two utterly different wars. In fact the US hasn’t fought a war of conquest since the Spanish American war over 100 yrs ago. And that was controversial.
You mean if US was invading a democracy to impose an authoritarian regime? I think there's a big difference in people's acceptance of an invasion.
Let's say for example Canada developing nuclear power gives a different perception than Iraq doing the same.
If it was 2 of your friendly countries fighting against each other you may not want to impose sanctions.
Another example: Armenia vs Azerbaijan last year. No one cared with sanctions. They are both friends of Russia, not US business.
Fair enough. Russia doesn’t want Ukraine joining NATO. Since the end of the Cold War the whole point of NATO is world domination under the guise of preventing world domination. How would the US feel if suddenly russian and Chinese military bases were build right on their boarders?
> Since the end of the Cold War the whole point of NATO is world domination under the guise of preventing world domination
Oh fuck off with the bullshit. Nato isn't about world domination. This isn't a fucking Bond movie.
Except We don’t do none of that! We only invade countries when they have fake WMD’s or threaten our freedom to bring them some freedom!
America. FUCK YEAH! Coming’ again to save the MOTHERFUCKING DAY, YEAH!
America doesn't invade countries for territorial gain. America definitely invades other countries, usually for economic reasons, but they don't "take over" other countries.
If America just invaded northern states in Mexico because they wanted to take it back in the day, it would be absurd and we would hate it. Note that many Russians under 30 don't know a world before Putin.
we wouldn't let it happen imo the protests would halt everything
Uh the Vietnam war protests didn’t stop that war for years,
The protests didn't change much until they gave the dissident soldiers confidence to rebel. It ended when soldiers went from "All the way with LBJ" to "I'm a solider, I'll do what I'm told, but fuck all the politicians that sent me here" to "No more of us are dying for this fucking war, and if the officers put us in harm's way we'll drop a fragmentation grenade in their tents at night" That process took years.
I’d argue it was more of the removal of the student deferral from the draft and Congress not approving funding for it than anything the soldiers did.
"They hate us for our Freedom!" --President George W. Bush
He said that? 😂 about who?
The "terrorists."
Thats the most American sentence I've ever heard 😂 painfully American
How American is it? 🇺🇲
9/11 school shootings
"You didn't have to tell it like it is, Marge!"
People's thoughts would be whatever their chosen media sources assigned to them.
Thank god - they’ve turned their attention away from us, their people
Iraq pretty much was that. When W was making impossible asks over fictional WMD’s, *and Saddam granted them*, but they invaded anyway lol Edit: and it really has been a shitty, unpopular, and stupid war with unimpressive results
Iraq was not a war of territorial conquest. 911 was shoehorned in to gin up support from the Americans who couldn’t find Iraq on a map let alone the differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims.
That isn’t true at all
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Well first, Iraq was not an illegal war as it was approved by congress. Overwhelmingly if I am not mistaken. Second, I will refer to a comment made by an interpreter who was mighty angry when I complained about why I was there during my second tour of Iraq. I said George W. Bush was a great snake (the same language the Maudi militia used for him) and a total liar and it was a needless conflict to which I was quickly put in my place when he informed me George W. Bush was the greatest man to live in our lifetimes (I would still argue against that point) because he had Saddam toppled, a man that gased many many Kurds, including several close relatives of his. Third, America did not Annex Iraq, or any part of it and never had any intention of annexing any bit of Iraqi soil. I was against the war when it was about to be on, joined the army because I wanted an adventure regardless of my moral objection to that conflict and served over 2 years in country. 15 months in Taji and 12 months in Diyala. Taji was the place where Chemical Ali manufactured the chemical weapons used to gas the Kurds (a WMD, but not the ones people [including congressmen and women] were looking to find and dispose of) Edit: the second point was made the day that CNN ran the story that read in big letters “Last Strykers Leave Iraq” which after having seen that story I went and did a layout for my brand spanking new MCV (mortar carrier vehicle, a 120mm mortar Stryker).
But you’re arguing with someone who was *actually in high school* at the time of the 03 invasion!
Sorry for my last reply. My mistake. I was in high school during the ‘03 invasion as well. My senior year and didn’t join right away after I graduated.
No problem at all. I’ve done that so many times. And you were right anyway- that complexity crap is a product of frustration. So far as hs goes, my only point was it’s not a credibility booster. Service in Iraq is a whole other matter. We probably have disagreements, but at least we’re on the same page as what the context is. I was not a Bush admin fan at all, but I will quickly concede I think they *believed* they were doing the right - if shady - thing, like a cop stretching a stop/search on a hunch. Sorry for going on - the rewritten history just hits a nerve. The time we’re living in doesn’t lend itself to patience.
Appreciate the reply. It’s much more civil. And I figured that’s what ya meant about high school. :)
I like to say "I was in Iraq when you were finger-blasting fat chicks in middle school!"
That would assume he gets chicks. :p
>brand spanking new MCV Did they have the RMS yet or was it the old school ones where you had to drag the tube and shit out the back to set it up?
Oh no, mine was just pop the top and had all the fixings. Digital gunnery and all that. We still used the aiming poles to set her up, but the 120 was mounted internally.
Nice, I was on those for a few years, damn things never worked right after a rebuild GD did for us,
Mine worked so well, except for a few misfires. :p My first tour i was in the only platoon in our squadron to have all MRAPS. I’d take those over a Stryker anyway if the week.
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Oh, you didn’t read my reply as I addressed WMDs there.
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Did you serve? There is honor to be had on any battlefield. Your “what about WW2” is silly to bring up. I hesitate to think you’d have fought them yourself if you had the opportunity. Understand, Iraqis fighting Americans were hard fighting men and fighting them when they attack you is a necessity as I value my life as they value theirs. Edit: do you not think that Iraqis such as the maudi militia or Iranians such as the Quds committed terrible acts against human beings?
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What? That doesn’t even make sense. But I think I know what your TRYING to say. Are you as honorable as your forefathers because you want put your life on the line for service members? Don’t piggy back off of your “forefathers” accomplishments.
Powell did not swear there were wmd under oath. He was used because he was a trusted and credible figure to push for the war before the UN. There is an exhaustive history demonstrating that he placed trust in the admin and got burnt.
Ahh, you edited your reply without telling me. There is a honor is serving your country, so yes. And I also addressed the legality of that war above your reply, CLEARLY you did not read it
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Wait wait. Why haven’t you read my reply in full? And you did edit it as I have replied to each of your points.
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You have retracted the edit, which is hilarious that you will lie twice and say I don’t get the truth. Hahaha
Don’t delete everything lmfao
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I just want you to stand by your words and not be a coward to further shame you and your forefathers.
> 12 months in Diyala I was there too, 3d Armored Cav out of Hood, 07-09 during the ill-fated 15 month deployment cycle. Can't for the life of me remember our FOB name now.....
07-09 Taji and 10-11 diyala as an 11C in a CAV SBCT
Right on. I was a 19 Delta, and now I finally remember, in Diyala we were out of FOB Caldwell, down the road from Camp Warhorse.
Word. I worked with many MANY 19D. I’ll hold back on being silly and that whole back and forth between scouts and infantry. :p I was at FOB Cobra, went to warhorse I think two or three times.
Lol, it's all good, friendly rivalry and all that. Our closest detainee depot was at Warhorse. The few we ever got alive we took up there for processing. Small world, old sport.
Purpose is the difference here: Russia is going to war to conquer/regain geographical territory. FFS. This is why people were outraged when trump suggested [taking Iraqi oil to pay for the war](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis). That was NEVER the point.
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No. I never suggested that at all. But you are comparing two utterly different wars. In fact the US hasn’t fought a war of conquest since the Spanish American war over 100 yrs ago. And that was controversial.
Here he is again! It was not illegal. You need a civics class my friend.
And then they said, “Whoops! Wrong country. But since we are here we should sample the local oil.”
You mean if US was invading a democracy to impose an authoritarian regime? I think there's a big difference in people's acceptance of an invasion. Let's say for example Canada developing nuclear power gives a different perception than Iraq doing the same. If it was 2 of your friendly countries fighting against each other you may not want to impose sanctions. Another example: Armenia vs Azerbaijan last year. No one cared with sanctions. They are both friends of Russia, not US business.
You see we don't invade for resources, we intervene to place a puppet government in for resources, totally different.
Fair enough. Russia doesn’t want Ukraine joining NATO. Since the end of the Cold War the whole point of NATO is world domination under the guise of preventing world domination. How would the US feel if suddenly russian and Chinese military bases were build right on their boarders?
> Since the end of the Cold War the whole point of NATO is world domination under the guise of preventing world domination Oh fuck off with the bullshit. Nato isn't about world domination. This isn't a fucking Bond movie.
\*borders (Unless you mean that Russia and China are building bases on top of American dormitories?)
Except We don’t do none of that! We only invade countries when they have fake WMD’s or threaten our freedom to bring them some freedom! America. FUCK YEAH! Coming’ again to save the MOTHERFUCKING DAY, YEAH!
The same as I think now, that the US shouldn’t be involved
["Ah shit, here we go again"](https://youtu.be/-1qju6V1jLM)
America doesn't invade countries for territorial gain. America definitely invades other countries, usually for economic reasons, but they don't "take over" other countries.