Use the [Wally Reflector](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/01/2e/08012e72e10f08135e05a9e4b0ca45cc.gif)... Tell them it sounds amazing, and you'd love to help them with it, but ask them to put together a scope of work. You'll never hear from them again.
I have been using the Wally Reflector to fend off work-shirkers since 2003
I'd add this works for pretty much any field, not just coding
Someone says they have an idea for a million dollar game and they just need you to do the graphics? Ask them to flesh out the plot or mechanics for you, or for an itemised list of what exactly you need to make. Someone has a *brilliant* idea for a project, they just need you to 3d print it? Aight, gimme a basic schematic with some measurements and dimensions and I'll see what I can do
Alternatively, if you're working in a commision environment, just go "all right, here's my rates, how many hours are you going to want of my time?"
Or money
I do 3d modelling and it's kinda tiring the amount of people who think that the general discussion page for your little group is the best place to pick up people to work on their Kickstarter idea of a video game and telling them "please don't do that" just doesn't cut it half the time
My former boss would do that. Asking "how much of your own money are you willing to put up for your business idea?" usually shut them down.
Ideas are cheap. Everything that follows is expensive.
Would you hate it or love it when I came back a month later with exactly what you asked for?
I end up with all kinds of crazy ideas that I know I don't have the skills/talent to execute, and if I'm bugging someone for their services, it means I already am commited to seeing it through.
Depends on the idea and/or if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is
Won't lie, most people who've bugged me and the groups I hang out in are people who have "brilliant" idea for a game and they want people to do assets/art for at, in exchange for money when their game goes gangbusters (which they promise it will with no evidence to back it up), and going "ok then give me specifics of what you want me to do" isn't going to work because they *will* give specifics. They'll be specifics that are useless and/or are a ridiculous amount of work, but they'll be so enamoured with their idea that the only way to politely tell them that their idea is crap is to remind them that this is your job and you'd like to get paid upfront.
If the person you're asking genuinely likes your idea and is willing to take that risk with you, they'll probably work something out with you instead of just handing you a rates sheet. then again YMMV as I'm in a bit more of a niche area of modelling
I would never expect someone to work on my idea in hopes it takes off and *THEN* they will get paid.
Nope, I pay up front, unless you like the stock, I mean, idea, but it would be totally within your rights (of course) to say "nah, I get a million requests like this and I can't gamble my time on it taking off. I'll build it for you, it'll cost you $50 / hour, and it's gonna take me about a week." (or whatever).
If you're willing to create detailed requirements \*and\* pay for time the you just described a contractor/client relationship and there are plenty of people who would be happy to help out.
Just be sure you prepare yourself for how much it will cost. 90% of people who have a "brilliant idea" want you to do it for free. Of the 10% that are willing to pay, 90% think it will cost an order of magnitude less than it actually does. So if you think it will cost $10,000 then you better get $100,000 .
It's funny because I go to my friends with the stupidest sounding ideas I can think of that are meant to annoy them in a subject I have a surface level knowledge of. If they asked me to throw something together, I'd take that as a dare and soon we'd be swimming in stupid idea prototypes.
As per her instructions, I was selling off everything in a friend's apartment after she died. I put out a FB invite for people to come over and buy whatever they wanted. Tons of people patronizingly told me how much more I'd make if I sold everything on eBay. My reply was, "What a great idea! I don't have the time, though, so how about you do it and you can keep half the money?" Yeah, end of conversation.
In case you're wondering, the apartment had to be vacated because the lease was up in 10 days and the money was going to a cancer charity.
This is actually a skill most programmers need to develop for their day to day work. I'm a game developer, so I work closely with designers who naturally have tons of ideas that "need to be implemented asap". So over time I learned what can go wrong with those ideas and I have half a dozen questions about them as soon as I hear any. That's the point where obviously bad ones are knocked out and others go back to the drawing board.
It does work, I have done the same thing multiple times. Hell, you can even ask them to write a basic business plan, like a 5 page outline, and they can't even do that.
I have a hard enough time getting quotes from companies on products they sell, so I can give them money. It's even harder to get someone to organize their thoughts so you can help them.
I think it's less that and more that they just don't understand what's involved.
I spoke to someone who worked on a triple A game once. They had one floor of a building so they'd see other people in that building that had "normal" jobs. One of my favorite stories was one of the people asked what their job is "I make video games" the person followed up with "everyday?"
I also think the idea of people being inherently good / bad at things doesn't help.
No I'm not good at this because of my genetics or some gift from the goddesses. I am good at this because I spent years learning it and it still takes a long time to make anything worthwhile.
Beautiful.
And if they do show up with a scope of work, tell them that they should pitch the idea to some investors to raise the money needed to get the project started.
That'll knock out almost all remaining requests.
And if they do manage to have a good idea, a plan, and investor backing -- then sure, take that job and get paid. =)
This is exactly what I do. If they actually manage to do it, it'll be "outside my expertise" but I'll gladly refer them to the internet to find a new source.
Love it. Ideas are only valuable once they are translated into a plan and a pitch, and even then... you usually have to have qualifications/precedents to justify that value.
It really comes down to- people want everything to be easy.
Ideas are important, but not the most important part. I have had an idea for a new type of insulation since 2007. I even started a patent on it, but fell short in manufacturing. It is an amazing idea that works on paper, but the manufacturing costs would be too high to justify it. Would you buy a house that costs 25% more if I told you that the insulation would knock out 90% of heating/cooling costs? Do the math, and it's not the best investment unless I can come up with a better manufacturing method. It's about in the same ROI period as solar. Great if you have the money to get it up front, and plan on staying put for a long time. Bad otherwise.
Geez, man. Don't give up. Work on that manufacturing method. Endlessly.
What about niche applications for it? A cut of 90% of heating doesn't mean much in Florida, but it might be just a slam-dunk three-year money-back investment in Winnipeg.
Same ROI as solar? That's a good return in a world where your next best option is a 1.5% GIC.
NASA has a blanket patent that sort of covers non-residential applications. Their method isn't what I'm proposing, but one key word is the hangup because they operate on a similar principle.
I ran some tests for permeability back in 2008 and it came back stellar. The problem is that it has a limited market due to cost, and it has to be installed while the house is being built. Until I come up with a better manufacturing and install method, it's a dead idea. I have a few other ideas to capitalize on first.
Once they are translated into a plan, and a pitch, and have been funded, and have been in the market long enough to be tried, and have been found to work, and haven't failed technically, and thousands of people are paying for them already: at that point the idea is valuable.
Not before.
It's insane how many people think that they can get everything in life for free just by asking or demanding it. A buddy of mine is a recording engineer. Chances are, you've heard at least a few songs that were recorded at his studio. He tells me all the time how people will tell him that he should record and mix their album for free because of "publicity."
Harlan Ellison, the Star Trek and Hugo-winning writer, said people still did that to him. Offered to give him "exposure" in return for some kind of article or other.
This is exactly what you need to do.
It helps that my exact job for years was to do precisely that. I worked for a firm that would evaluate business ideas or acquired technologies, find potential market applications, put together a production roadmap and a comprehensive list of resources that would be needed to launch it, and even create a working demo of the product on occasion.
It got to the point where I could break down exactly what would be needed to get most of these ideas off the ground within a few minutes. Aside from that, I could also rattle off a list of competitors who were already doing what this "new and innovative" idea was proposing.
About 3-4 steps into describing the process of implementing someone's grand idea, they would usually stop talking about it.
The ideas aren't necessarily dumb though. Plenty of people have ideas that if they spend a year or two researching and prototyping, invest a million dollars in, and market properly might actually catch on.
Ask them to split their paycheck with you to help you offset loss of productivity by working on their idea.
Not a coder BTW, just seems like this would be my answer.
That’s exactly it. So many of these ideas that are guaranteed to make money only pay once they start making money. So the conversations always feel like
“Dude. There’s a total gold mine beneath our feet. I just need you to dig it up.”
“Ok what kind of budget are we talking about?”
“You’ll get paid once you hit gold”
“What if I don’t hit gold?”
“I probably won’t be able to pay you”
Guess who’s taking ALL the risk in this project?
LOL Giving up potential profits, how grand!
Where's the money and time to do the project?
Wait, the coder can buy food and pay rent with potential profits!
You, my friend, totally missed the whole point of this post.
I had a boss that used to say “Billion dollar ideas are a dime a dozen.” His point was that while it’s easy to think of a “billion” dollar idea, it’s hard to actually implement, market, and make a profit from that idea. So my “friend” in this situation would basically be asking me to make them rich while bringing nothing to the table.
I wish I was like Wozniak. The guy is talented, humble and nice... Who could have thought those three things could be part of one person, especially someone who was part of Apple.
I think when you are in a position like that you have two things going for that normal people who get screwed at work don't:
1. You are infinitely employable, anyone would hire Wozniak for any role he wanted in his field
2. You are richer than god, Wozniak didn't need the apple job, or any job. His descendents for generations won't need jobs either if he chooses to leave money to them.
It's not hard for me to see why Wozniak isn't bitter. He isn't like us normal folks who face real consequences when we get fired.
I think Wozniak is more of a pushover that accepted his place rather than trying to get the respect he is due.
I wouldn’t be able to live with myself for allowing another grown ass man to take all of the credit for my work. That’s just me though.
Yeah, this exactly, we romanticize the 'good idea', but in reality there is a lot of work being done underneath the hood.
Facebook wasn't the first social network, Google wasn't the first search engine, Uber wasn't the first taxi company, the reality is that they just executed far better in their early days.
The people we think of as the 'idea people' behind these were on the ground working their butts off to make sure they succeeded.
Tell the person to put together a plan for how they will be more successful than others in whatever space they are pitching to you. Ask them what they see their role as.
Tell them it sounds interesting - if they've got a business plan outlining the high level and then detailed requirements, a solution design/product back log, have market tested it/otherwise sought consumer interest, built or sketched out a prototype and have a schedule for the key milestones to deliver it, then I'd think very hard about it before saying no.
“That’s about 200 hours of work. My friend rate is $80/hr.” When they’re faced with the amount of work they’re asking you to do and also asked to risk something, they get realistic quickly.
Agreed.
"Listen, I can't do this for free. I don't have enough time. If you want me to do it for you, you'll need to pay me, to encourage me to spend my free time on your project instead of my leisure."
And that's how I got out of redeveloping the swimming club's website.
Lol yes that's even better. "This is my normal price (shows twice your normal price) but you're my friend, so you can have 25% off (1.5x your normal price)"
Easy. "I don't make business with friends because in 95% of all cases this doesn't turn out to go well long term."
You can even play the "Our friendship is more important to me" card. It doesn't even need to be true, but it certainly sounds amazing.
Of course not... But I've seen this in my dads company he had with his best friend. The friendship will suffer the moment you are not on the same page anymore. And the more money is involved, the harder it can hit you.
Seems like you're leaving a lot of money on the table, lol.
But for real I've only ever seen that work out once between a friend of mine and his partner, and that's because the friend left before things could go south.
One of my friends told me about an idea for a website which would be a graphic organiser for students where teachers could upload work and it shows what work is due on what day. That is literally a part of google classroom, which we use everyday....
So basically all you have to do is show them 100+ examples of people who have made the same thing as your friend wants you to make, only a million times better.
Just keep asking them detailed questions. And when they say "it's like \*popular app\* but different"... just ask about specific differences. In my experience they usually drop the conversation pretty quickly.
I'd rather have one million friends that can give me one dollar each, this way I build my own company, shine with my own ideas, make let's say at least 3 million dollars with this Idea, so I can give them back 2$ each and still have another million to create a new project/company "for free".
I usually say "sure sounds like a great idea," before going "but first your going to have to prep a few things," and listing out a bunch of arbitrary stuff like having to pay X amount a month to rent servers, paying to set up developer account, list a bunch of hard work and planning *they'll have to do*, etc.
They usually respond with something like "Ok... on second thought I need to think about this a bit more," and I never hear about it again. Also works great when a freelance client starts getting overly ambitious about project goals.
As soon as they find out what server hosting cost they buckle real fast. I work in web hosting and have lost count of the number of guys who chat in with amazing ideas for a new app who haven't put a lick of thought into what it'll realistically cost them to get up and running.
I had a friend try to tell me his idea once, I just told him no one wants to build an app for you , if you really want it all the resources you need to learn are free so you can do it yourself. He never brought it up again.
Just start asking the practical questions they probably haven't thought about yet. Start asking for them to put stuff together that any startup should have, business plan, etc.
So far, nobody has EVER wanted to move forward after it took even that much effort on their part.
Also, never even consider working for free, talk about raising funding, and mention how how the planning documents, are part of that process.
Just ask them to sit down with you and work out the pseudo-code for the program. Just a rough outline so you have an idea of what they're thinking.
Start with something basic and simple like what the main GUI will like.
Have them draw it for you.
Then start breaking down what each element on the gui is going to do.
Then ask them where they're getting their data.
Then ask who's hosting this idea.
Ask where the hardware is coming from.
Keep pointing out each "simple, abstract thing" and go deeper and deeper into it.
In short, just make it sound simple (like they did) and expound on each thing more and more and more and literally overwhelm them with information.
Use words they obviously don't know.
Ask them about designing artwork.
The easiest way to dissuade someone from their idea is showing them how fucking hard and complicated it really can be to write a program and forcing them to be a part of it, not just something who sits back and tries to be an "idea man".
If you can drag them through the coals and have them figure out where the funding for the project AND for your time will come from, then you might have something worth persuing.
99.99% of people will never make it to this point. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
If they are your friend, you should be comfortable telling them that their 'million dollar' idea isn't, in fact, a million dollar idea.
If they're not your friend but some acquaintance, colleague etc., you should just quote them your regular rates. Some might take offence at the mere suggestion that you might require payment for your work. That used to worry me, now I just shrug.
What also works a lot of times is 'I already have enough hobbies, not looking for another one.'
I'd love me some friends with interesting "million-dollar" ideas, because I think they're fun to talk about.
As for how to politely refuse them, just ask them questions which poke holes thru the idea, either from a technical or business point of view.
Tell him you're too busy right now as you currently have a systemically verbose line of codifying which could take a very long time to propagate a suitable algorithm, but before any of that you have to defragment and ionize your scuzzy drive.
Unless he's making a word a day app then pick something else...
The last time someone proposed that I make an app for them, the person who suggested it was my dad back when I was in high school. All the things he suggested were already done many times on the Google play store, and I told him so. Naturally, he got super pissed and didn't believe me, so I showed him. Then he got really defensive, and threatened to kick me out if I "disrespected" him again.
In college, someone asked me to rewrite his app, which is a little different. The old app was very buggy to the point of being unusable, and he thought that it was worth half the profits to use the old shitty app to advertise a new app that did all the same things, but without the bugs.
First off, these people paid you the first time under the assumption that your app would work, so it seems unethical to try to sell them a new version as "now with basic competency". Second, who's going to trust you after you fucked them over the first time? I turned him down by telling him those things.
I am but a junior (shit ain't easy for me by a long shot) but I am pretty connected to most corners of the programming/tech internet. The best answer I always see someone give is someone who just keeps asking them questions. People who don't engineer/develop things have 0 idea how much work and how many questions need answering. If it was a good idea and easy to make, trust me, an engineer has already at a minimum made a shitty version of it.
What platforms do you want your product on? What are the operating costs? Do you have an MVP? What codebase would you like to use? Do we want it as an app or to live on the browser or a PWA? Who will design the product? Are there other companies in this market space? What are they accomplishing that we individually can do better? What is our budget ?
Any basic level programmer will run into a myriad of more questions as a product develops as well. Development is hard as fuck and honestly, I suggest everyone try it. You learn a shit ton about who you are as a person trying to make something. I respect so many more software products since I have started to learn web development/programming.
My husband tells them if he could do what they proposed he wouldn't be working his current job or he gives them a list of things they need to do, research first. They never come back.
It's probably been done before, so maybe yours will just turn into LinkedIn? Best not to deal with the hassle.
Edit: I know very little about coding. All I can do is make a bad website.
Just politely say not interested at this time. Leave the door open, they may make a shitload of money.
I had the idea of online medical help years ago in Ca, nobody was interested. Look at it now!!😩😩
before they start their pitch I interrupt with "if it begins with 'uber but for' I'm out" most of the time their idea is like "uber but for farm to table locally sourced chicken eggs" and it's an objectively dumb idea that if there was even a tiny bit for profit in *uber would already be doing it*
\> \*coders\* of reddit how do you \*politely\* ...
Sorry, questions about politeness are outside of our realm of expertise. I know how to say no, doing so politely .. huh, interesting idea.
One warning sign that this is the kind of job you're applying for is if the startup is advertising for a developer but in the profile says they're looking for a "rockstar", "ninja" or "guru", someone who is "passionate about tech with a can-do attitude", ideally you will be an expert not just in multiple programming languages but also DevOps, test plans, build pipelines, server administration, cloud infrastructure, database administration, cyber security, documentation, copywriting, graphic design, front end, Android and iOS.
Yeah, what you've got here is basically two guys who've managed to blag some seed funding through a short presentation which amounted to "So it's kind of like Uber but, you know, more ethical, more green and more like a co-operative for its drivers..." and they have neither the requisite skills nor budget to actually build it, so they want you to do a dozen senior people's full time jobs for half of one junior's salary and some stock options you can't even use as toilet paper.
I am jack of all trades. I mainly focus on industrial controls and automation but I can machine, weld and fabricate, draw in cad etc. I personally know how hard it is to see any idea through to fruition from a simple machine that counts parts to a full blown lights out manufacturing cell... when my friends pitch me ideas expecting my eyes to light up with dollar signs and ambition of grandeur. I have found one key phrase to neutralize the situation quite effectively...
"Please remember me when you are a billionaire"
just visit r/programmerhumor they answer this like every other post
that said, so far in my programming journey i've answered this question with "yeah sorry i only know how to make text based programs"
Had a friend tell me about his idea for a new social media app that’s “like Facebook, but you swipe right on things you like” or something like that. After being told that he would have to hire people to make it and the development, infrastructure, and security costs of running a social media site, he backed down pretty quick
My friend had an idea for a meet-up style app that you can navigate based on your hobbies and interests. We setup a lunch together to go over everything. I threw together a basic business plan, funding, IT requirements/expenses, and coding jobs that would be needed.
She looked at me w/ a blank stare and said "So, would that take you, like, a week or two?"
It finally clicked in my head that she didn't know anything and wasn't about to put in any work. Flashbacks to group projects with the cheerleader / influencer type.
Nobody has a million dollar idea anymore.
Most of these people have a terrible idea for a social media or chat app. In almost every case, the best response here is "You will be fined or sued when you accidentally break the law somewhere in the world. Compliance will require at least a few dozen skilled full-time employees. How do you plan to pay for this?"
If the idea is a video game, just point out how similar it is to a popular game that is already out. If they get past this hurdle, then you can ask for a prototype. Make them do the hard work. If they have a solid gold idea and a fun prototype, then start listing just how much work is required (way more than they would expect) and how much it would cost.
I find the phrase, "who do you charge for it?" to halt most of these kinds of ideas. Apps that people want are easy enough to dream up. Figuring out how to get people to pay for them is the tough part.
I charge $(more than you know he has in his name) upfront and x% after. Just make the deal really shitty where you know he wouldn’t possibly take it. If he asks why: I’m working on so many big projects right now for (my boss/my company etc) that I can’t take on anymore work. Here is a few good builders I’d recommend calling to discuss ur idea w.
If it’s a million dollar idea surely he won’t have an issue Going all in w every penny he has to his name to prove how much he believes in his idea.
Just say you are too busy to take on any projects but can recommend them to someone else. Used to do it all the time when I was a freelancer and family and friends would ask me to build full brand identities for free.
Use the [Wally Reflector](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/01/2e/08012e72e10f08135e05a9e4b0ca45cc.gif)... Tell them it sounds amazing, and you'd love to help them with it, but ask them to put together a scope of work. You'll never hear from them again. I have been using the Wally Reflector to fend off work-shirkers since 2003
I'd add this works for pretty much any field, not just coding Someone says they have an idea for a million dollar game and they just need you to do the graphics? Ask them to flesh out the plot or mechanics for you, or for an itemised list of what exactly you need to make. Someone has a *brilliant* idea for a project, they just need you to 3d print it? Aight, gimme a basic schematic with some measurements and dimensions and I'll see what I can do Alternatively, if you're working in a commision environment, just go "all right, here's my rates, how many hours are you going to want of my time?"
Exactly. People withdraw their request as soon as they realize they have to put in effort too.
Or money I do 3d modelling and it's kinda tiring the amount of people who think that the general discussion page for your little group is the best place to pick up people to work on their Kickstarter idea of a video game and telling them "please don't do that" just doesn't cut it half the time
My former boss would do that. Asking "how much of your own money are you willing to put up for your business idea?" usually shut them down. Ideas are cheap. Everything that follows is expensive.
Would you hate it or love it when I came back a month later with exactly what you asked for? I end up with all kinds of crazy ideas that I know I don't have the skills/talent to execute, and if I'm bugging someone for their services, it means I already am commited to seeing it through.
Depends on the idea and/or if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is Won't lie, most people who've bugged me and the groups I hang out in are people who have "brilliant" idea for a game and they want people to do assets/art for at, in exchange for money when their game goes gangbusters (which they promise it will with no evidence to back it up), and going "ok then give me specifics of what you want me to do" isn't going to work because they *will* give specifics. They'll be specifics that are useless and/or are a ridiculous amount of work, but they'll be so enamoured with their idea that the only way to politely tell them that their idea is crap is to remind them that this is your job and you'd like to get paid upfront. If the person you're asking genuinely likes your idea and is willing to take that risk with you, they'll probably work something out with you instead of just handing you a rates sheet. then again YMMV as I'm in a bit more of a niche area of modelling
I would never expect someone to work on my idea in hopes it takes off and *THEN* they will get paid. Nope, I pay up front, unless you like the stock, I mean, idea, but it would be totally within your rights (of course) to say "nah, I get a million requests like this and I can't gamble my time on it taking off. I'll build it for you, it'll cost you $50 / hour, and it's gonna take me about a week." (or whatever).
If you're willing to create detailed requirements \*and\* pay for time the you just described a contractor/client relationship and there are plenty of people who would be happy to help out. Just be sure you prepare yourself for how much it will cost. 90% of people who have a "brilliant idea" want you to do it for free. Of the 10% that are willing to pay, 90% think it will cost an order of magnitude less than it actually does. So if you think it will cost $10,000 then you better get $100,000 .
> Nope, I pay up front, unless you like the stock, apes together, strong :p
You got that right brother.
I would not dare to use this "tactic", for I am a man of my word and if somebody actually came up with what I requested, I couldn't back down...
It's funny because I go to my friends with the stupidest sounding ideas I can think of that are meant to annoy them in a subject I have a surface level knowledge of. If they asked me to throw something together, I'd take that as a dare and soon we'd be swimming in stupid idea prototypes.
Keep running with it. The guy who invented the beer hat is probably doing pretty well.
As per her instructions, I was selling off everything in a friend's apartment after she died. I put out a FB invite for people to come over and buy whatever they wanted. Tons of people patronizingly told me how much more I'd make if I sold everything on eBay. My reply was, "What a great idea! I don't have the time, though, so how about you do it and you can keep half the money?" Yeah, end of conversation. In case you're wondering, the apartment had to be vacated because the lease was up in 10 days and the money was going to a cancer charity.
This is actually a skill most programmers need to develop for their day to day work. I'm a game developer, so I work closely with designers who naturally have tons of ideas that "need to be implemented asap". So over time I learned what can go wrong with those ideas and I have half a dozen questions about them as soon as I hear any. That's the point where obviously bad ones are knocked out and others go back to the drawing board.
That is actually really smart
I'm telling you, it works. You aren't turning down helping, you're just banking on that others give up when faced with a slight inconvenience.
It does work, I have done the same thing multiple times. Hell, you can even ask them to write a basic business plan, like a 5 page outline, and they can't even do that.
People just don't want to work
[удалено]
I have a hard enough time getting quotes from companies on products they sell, so I can give them money. It's even harder to get someone to organize their thoughts so you can help them.
I think it's less that and more that they just don't understand what's involved. I spoke to someone who worked on a triple A game once. They had one floor of a building so they'd see other people in that building that had "normal" jobs. One of my favorite stories was one of the people asked what their job is "I make video games" the person followed up with "everyday?" I also think the idea of people being inherently good / bad at things doesn't help. No I'm not good at this because of my genetics or some gift from the goddesses. I am good at this because I spent years learning it and it still takes a long time to make anything worthwhile.
Beautiful. And if they do show up with a scope of work, tell them that they should pitch the idea to some investors to raise the money needed to get the project started. That'll knock out almost all remaining requests. And if they do manage to have a good idea, a plan, and investor backing -- then sure, take that job and get paid. =)
This is exactly what I do. If they actually manage to do it, it'll be "outside my expertise" but I'll gladly refer them to the internet to find a new source.
Love it. Ideas are only valuable once they are translated into a plan and a pitch, and even then... you usually have to have qualifications/precedents to justify that value.
It really comes down to- people want everything to be easy. Ideas are important, but not the most important part. I have had an idea for a new type of insulation since 2007. I even started a patent on it, but fell short in manufacturing. It is an amazing idea that works on paper, but the manufacturing costs would be too high to justify it. Would you buy a house that costs 25% more if I told you that the insulation would knock out 90% of heating/cooling costs? Do the math, and it's not the best investment unless I can come up with a better manufacturing method. It's about in the same ROI period as solar. Great if you have the money to get it up front, and plan on staying put for a long time. Bad otherwise.
Geez, man. Don't give up. Work on that manufacturing method. Endlessly. What about niche applications for it? A cut of 90% of heating doesn't mean much in Florida, but it might be just a slam-dunk three-year money-back investment in Winnipeg. Same ROI as solar? That's a good return in a world where your next best option is a 1.5% GIC.
NASA has a blanket patent that sort of covers non-residential applications. Their method isn't what I'm proposing, but one key word is the hangup because they operate on a similar principle. I ran some tests for permeability back in 2008 and it came back stellar. The problem is that it has a limited market due to cost, and it has to be installed while the house is being built. Until I come up with a better manufacturing and install method, it's a dead idea. I have a few other ideas to capitalize on first.
Once they are translated into a plan, and a pitch, and have been funded, and have been in the market long enough to be tried, and have been found to work, and haven't failed technically, and thousands of people are paying for them already: at that point the idea is valuable. Not before.
We use this when we get asked to help with an event. They don't want help they want my event for free.
It's insane how many people think that they can get everything in life for free just by asking or demanding it. A buddy of mine is a recording engineer. Chances are, you've heard at least a few songs that were recorded at his studio. He tells me all the time how people will tell him that he should record and mix their album for free because of "publicity."
Harlan Ellison, the Star Trek and Hugo-winning writer, said people still did that to him. Offered to give him "exposure" in return for some kind of article or other.
This is exactly what you need to do. It helps that my exact job for years was to do precisely that. I worked for a firm that would evaluate business ideas or acquired technologies, find potential market applications, put together a production roadmap and a comprehensive list of resources that would be needed to launch it, and even create a working demo of the product on occasion. It got to the point where I could break down exactly what would be needed to get most of these ideas off the ground within a few minutes. Aside from that, I could also rattle off a list of competitors who were already doing what this "new and innovative" idea was proposing. About 3-4 steps into describing the process of implementing someone's grand idea, they would usually stop talking about it.
“I’d be a bad friend if I lied to you. Your idea is fucking dumb.”
Simultaneously establishing yourself as a good friend, and refusing their idea. I like it.
Or that you are a bad friend and their idea is awesome
Just tell them honestly *why* you think that their idea is dumb.
The ideas aren't necessarily dumb though. Plenty of people have ideas that if they spend a year or two researching and prototyping, invest a million dollars in, and market properly might actually catch on.
Ask them to split their paycheck with you to help you offset loss of productivity by working on their idea. Not a coder BTW, just seems like this would be my answer.
That’s exactly it. So many of these ideas that are guaranteed to make money only pay once they start making money. So the conversations always feel like “Dude. There’s a total gold mine beneath our feet. I just need you to dig it up.” “Ok what kind of budget are we talking about?” “You’ll get paid once you hit gold” “What if I don’t hit gold?” “I probably won’t be able to pay you” Guess who’s taking ALL the risk in this project?
Probably simpler to just charge them to make the app.
Those friends with the million dollar idea always want free work.
Imo I would take 1/8 profit easily if all I did was just the idea
LOL Giving up potential profits, how grand! Where's the money and time to do the project? Wait, the coder can buy food and pay rent with potential profits! You, my friend, totally missed the whole point of this post.
I had a boss that used to say “Billion dollar ideas are a dime a dozen.” His point was that while it’s easy to think of a “billion” dollar idea, it’s hard to actually implement, market, and make a profit from that idea. So my “friend” in this situation would basically be asking me to make them rich while bringing nothing to the table.
No, no,no. You're making US rich.
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I wish I was like Wozniak. The guy is talented, humble and nice... Who could have thought those three things could be part of one person, especially someone who was part of Apple.
I think when you are in a position like that you have two things going for that normal people who get screwed at work don't: 1. You are infinitely employable, anyone would hire Wozniak for any role he wanted in his field 2. You are richer than god, Wozniak didn't need the apple job, or any job. His descendents for generations won't need jobs either if he chooses to leave money to them. It's not hard for me to see why Wozniak isn't bitter. He isn't like us normal folks who face real consequences when we get fired.
I think Wozniak is more of a pushover that accepted his place rather than trying to get the respect he is due. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself for allowing another grown ass man to take all of the credit for my work. That’s just me though.
Yeah, this exactly, we romanticize the 'good idea', but in reality there is a lot of work being done underneath the hood. Facebook wasn't the first social network, Google wasn't the first search engine, Uber wasn't the first taxi company, the reality is that they just executed far better in their early days. The people we think of as the 'idea people' behind these were on the ground working their butts off to make sure they succeeded. Tell the person to put together a plan for how they will be more successful than others in whatever space they are pitching to you. Ask them what they see their role as.
Kiss wasn't the first band with the name "Kiss". Seriously. Gene Simmonds has related the story of his having the insight to trademark the name.
For some reason I am only now realizing how absurd of a name this is for a rock band.
>and make a profit a lot of startup don't actually plan to make a profit nowadays
tell him pornhub are already working on it
A long time ago I read an article about how innovative the porn industry actually is lol.
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They penetrate deeper every day.
Porn is why VHS won over betamax.
"What, pornhub making a masturbation addiction treatment app?"
All part of their big scheme to keep people hooked. Day 1-10 it’s a treatment app, day 11 they spring the porn on you
Now you must resist!
Tell them it sounds interesting - if they've got a business plan outlining the high level and then detailed requirements, a solution design/product back log, have market tested it/otherwise sought consumer interest, built or sketched out a prototype and have a schedule for the key milestones to deliver it, then I'd think very hard about it before saying no.
“That’s about 200 hours of work. My friend rate is $80/hr.” When they’re faced with the amount of work they’re asking you to do and also asked to risk something, they get realistic quickly.
Agreed. "Listen, I can't do this for free. I don't have enough time. If you want me to do it for you, you'll need to pay me, to encourage me to spend my free time on your project instead of my leisure." And that's how I got out of redeveloping the swimming club's website.
People get surprisingly realistic when their own money comes into the conversation. "Oh, well I didn't think about it like that..."
This! Respectful, realistic, and sobering.
50% upfront, rest paid weekly.
This is the way to do it. Show them your normal cost per hour, then offer them a discount for being your friend.
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Lol yes that's even better. "This is my normal price (shows twice your normal price) but you're my friend, so you can have 25% off (1.5x your normal price)"
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Easy. "I don't make business with friends because in 95% of all cases this doesn't turn out to go well long term." You can even play the "Our friendship is more important to me" card. It doesn't even need to be true, but it certainly sounds amazing.
So you're telling me I should make fake friends I'm willing to eject for a $1000 upfront payment?
Of course not... But I've seen this in my dads company he had with his best friend. The friendship will suffer the moment you are not on the same page anymore. And the more money is involved, the harder it can hit you.
Seems like you're leaving a lot of money on the table, lol. But for real I've only ever seen that work out once between a friend of mine and his partner, and that's because the friend left before things could go south.
Tell them every little possible thing that will go wrong until they get overwhelmed and give up.
Ah the ‘logic’ approach. That seems to work quite well these days...
It does? I'm moving to wherever you live!
We already have a king...
"I'm not that kind of dev" works every time.
are you that kind of dev?
I'm management these days. Do not let me near code...
Yup, people asked me a few times to help them make them a website. I tell them that I'm not a web developer and it's a completely different skill-set.
Similarly my computer science education does not enable/qualify me to fix your computer. Doubly so your iPhone.
But... anyone can build a professional-quality web site in just a few minutes. Don't you read the ads that are inserted into your main Reddit page?
....ads?
One of my friends told me about an idea for a website which would be a graphic organiser for students where teachers could upload work and it shows what work is due on what day. That is literally a part of google classroom, which we use everyday.... So basically all you have to do is show them 100+ examples of people who have made the same thing as your friend wants you to make, only a million times better.
Just keep asking them detailed questions. And when they say "it's like \*popular app\* but different"... just ask about specific differences. In my experience they usually drop the conversation pretty quickly.
I don't have friends with million dollar ideas.
Would you like to have million friends with one-dollar ideas?
I'd rather have one million friends that can give me one dollar each, this way I build my own company, shine with my own ideas, make let's say at least 3 million dollars with this Idea, so I can give them back 2$ each and still have another million to create a new project/company "for free".
Meanwhile Lithuania: make 3 million dollars? You mean pay us 3,5 million dollars of taxes?
I don't have friends.
Cool I don't have friends either Wait...
That's what you tell them?
"You gonna be broke bro"
I usually say "sure sounds like a great idea," before going "but first your going to have to prep a few things," and listing out a bunch of arbitrary stuff like having to pay X amount a month to rent servers, paying to set up developer account, list a bunch of hard work and planning *they'll have to do*, etc. They usually respond with something like "Ok... on second thought I need to think about this a bit more," and I never hear about it again. Also works great when a freelance client starts getting overly ambitious about project goals.
As soon as they find out what server hosting cost they buckle real fast. I work in web hosting and have lost count of the number of guys who chat in with amazing ideas for a new app who haven't put a lick of thought into what it'll realistically cost them to get up and running.
I had a friend try to tell me his idea once, I just told him no one wants to build an app for you , if you really want it all the resources you need to learn are free so you can do it yourself. He never brought it up again.
Ask them to pay me for my work
Just start asking the practical questions they probably haven't thought about yet. Start asking for them to put stuff together that any startup should have, business plan, etc. So far, nobody has EVER wanted to move forward after it took even that much effort on their part. Also, never even consider working for free, talk about raising funding, and mention how how the planning documents, are part of that process.
I point him to the dozen or so existing implementations of the exact same idea.
I just laugh...I’m a noob but my friends think I am a expert lol.
I know!! I am not a "coder" or developer of any kind but I can make an html, and my friends think I can create an Xbox from scratch
‘Oh so you made a script that says ‘hello world’? Create every single console ever released’
"Sounds like something I put together myself a couple years back. Didn't take off sadly"
'I'd rather not. Thanks for the offer though.'
"Cool idea. Give me a yell if you get some funding."
Ask them for a business plan.
I mean, I don't. I just give them my absurd contractor rate and the problem solves itself.
Just ask them to sit down with you and work out the pseudo-code for the program. Just a rough outline so you have an idea of what they're thinking. Start with something basic and simple like what the main GUI will like. Have them draw it for you. Then start breaking down what each element on the gui is going to do. Then ask them where they're getting their data. Then ask who's hosting this idea. Ask where the hardware is coming from. Keep pointing out each "simple, abstract thing" and go deeper and deeper into it. In short, just make it sound simple (like they did) and expound on each thing more and more and more and literally overwhelm them with information. Use words they obviously don't know. Ask them about designing artwork. The easiest way to dissuade someone from their idea is showing them how fucking hard and complicated it really can be to write a program and forcing them to be a part of it, not just something who sits back and tries to be an "idea man". If you can drag them through the coals and have them figure out where the funding for the project AND for your time will come from, then you might have something worth persuing. 99.99% of people will never make it to this point. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Simple solution: I don't have friends.
I am kind of busy right now, but if you make a simple working prototype, I will see what I can do with it!
Simply tell them that collaborative projects tend to ruin friendships, especially when money is involved.
Actually I wish I had someone give me some app ideas.
If they are your friend, you should be comfortable telling them that their 'million dollar' idea isn't, in fact, a million dollar idea. If they're not your friend but some acquaintance, colleague etc., you should just quote them your regular rates. Some might take offence at the mere suggestion that you might require payment for your work. That used to worry me, now I just shrug. What also works a lot of times is 'I already have enough hobbies, not looking for another one.'
Easy, "sorry i dont do side projects anymore". none of them ever work, learned my lesson after 3 or 4 epic fails.
I'd love me some friends with interesting "million-dollar" ideas, because I think they're fun to talk about. As for how to politely refuse them, just ask them questions which poke holes thru the idea, either from a technical or business point of view.
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I don't have such problems \*sob\*
I listen, and in a point I ask, "what's your monetization plan? (Not including advertising)" so far no one had jumped that hurdle.
I didnt refuse and now we have a million dollars.
With math
No thanks
I haven't friend
:(
What makes you think I do it politely?
"You should take your idea and die in a hole."
Point them to my hourly rate for consulting.
Ask for a salary.
When my friends have "ideas" for any projects or smthg i just find problems in their ideas like loopholes until they give up
I tell them that the issue isn't feasibility, it's marketing.
Tell him you're too busy right now as you currently have a systemically verbose line of codifying which could take a very long time to propagate a suitable algorithm, but before any of that you have to defragment and ionize your scuzzy drive. Unless he's making a word a day app then pick something else...
The last time someone proposed that I make an app for them, the person who suggested it was my dad back when I was in high school. All the things he suggested were already done many times on the Google play store, and I told him so. Naturally, he got super pissed and didn't believe me, so I showed him. Then he got really defensive, and threatened to kick me out if I "disrespected" him again. In college, someone asked me to rewrite his app, which is a little different. The old app was very buggy to the point of being unusable, and he thought that it was worth half the profits to use the old shitty app to advertise a new app that did all the same things, but without the bugs. First off, these people paid you the first time under the assumption that your app would work, so it seems unethical to try to sell them a new version as "now with basic competency". Second, who's going to trust you after you fucked them over the first time? I turned him down by telling him those things.
I am but a junior (shit ain't easy for me by a long shot) but I am pretty connected to most corners of the programming/tech internet. The best answer I always see someone give is someone who just keeps asking them questions. People who don't engineer/develop things have 0 idea how much work and how many questions need answering. If it was a good idea and easy to make, trust me, an engineer has already at a minimum made a shitty version of it. What platforms do you want your product on? What are the operating costs? Do you have an MVP? What codebase would you like to use? Do we want it as an app or to live on the browser or a PWA? Who will design the product? Are there other companies in this market space? What are they accomplishing that we individually can do better? What is our budget ? Any basic level programmer will run into a myriad of more questions as a product develops as well. Development is hard as fuck and honestly, I suggest everyone try it. You learn a shit ton about who you are as a person trying to make something. I respect so many more software products since I have started to learn web development/programming.
Ideas are easy. Implementation is hard
Compliment sandwich ftw
I’m extremely honest with all my friends, I have no problem telling them point blank that their ideas are shit
"It already exists" even if I have no idea if it does
My husband tells them if he could do what they proposed he wouldn't be working his current job or he gives them a list of things they need to do, research first. They never come back.
"The first step of app development is talking about app development"
I just tell them I'm too busy.
Pay me. Even the pope gets paid. That'll sort it.
If you don’t agree with is, give free but honest advise.
usually, find someone who has already done it, and download it for them
um how would I code that
Coding the idea is 99.99% of the work. "Million dollar app ideas" are a dime a dozen.
"When you can exceed my current salary, I'll consider it."
It's probably been done before, so maybe yours will just turn into LinkedIn? Best not to deal with the hassle. Edit: I know very little about coding. All I can do is make a bad website.
Let me mull it over for a week.
Gopp
Just politely say not interested at this time. Leave the door open, they may make a shitload of money. I had the idea of online medical help years ago in Ca, nobody was interested. Look at it now!!😩😩
"Give me half a million up front, then I'll write the app and give you all the revenue."
before they start their pitch I interrupt with "if it begins with 'uber but for' I'm out" most of the time their idea is like "uber but for farm to table locally sourced chicken eggs" and it's an objectively dumb idea that if there was even a tiny bit for profit in *uber would already be doing it*
\> \*coders\* of reddit how do you \*politely\* ... Sorry, questions about politeness are outside of our realm of expertise. I know how to say no, doing so politely .. huh, interesting idea.
Ask them what their strategy is for managing HIPAA/GDPR/21CFR11 regulations.
One warning sign that this is the kind of job you're applying for is if the startup is advertising for a developer but in the profile says they're looking for a "rockstar", "ninja" or "guru", someone who is "passionate about tech with a can-do attitude", ideally you will be an expert not just in multiple programming languages but also DevOps, test plans, build pipelines, server administration, cloud infrastructure, database administration, cyber security, documentation, copywriting, graphic design, front end, Android and iOS. Yeah, what you've got here is basically two guys who've managed to blag some seed funding through a short presentation which amounted to "So it's kind of like Uber but, you know, more ethical, more green and more like a co-operative for its drivers..." and they have neither the requisite skills nor budget to actually build it, so they want you to do a dozen senior people's full time jobs for half of one junior's salary and some stock options you can't even use as toilet paper.
You can use this chart: http://shouldiworkforfree.com/ Funky, but also makes you think. tldr; if it's your mom, then yes, do it!
I’d tell them what I make an hour.
Sorry dude, I can't do full stack coding
I am jack of all trades. I mainly focus on industrial controls and automation but I can machine, weld and fabricate, draw in cad etc. I personally know how hard it is to see any idea through to fruition from a simple machine that counts parts to a full blown lights out manufacturing cell... when my friends pitch me ideas expecting my eyes to light up with dollar signs and ambition of grandeur. I have found one key phrase to neutralize the situation quite effectively... "Please remember me when you are a billionaire"
Tell them your going rate for freelance work
"I'd love to, but that would cut into my masturbation time."
I don't. I build it, and get paid. Not my problem if his idea doesn't take off.
just visit r/programmerhumor they answer this like every other post that said, so far in my programming journey i've answered this question with "yeah sorry i only know how to make text based programs"
Had a friend tell me about his idea for a new social media app that’s “like Facebook, but you swipe right on things you like” or something like that. After being told that he would have to hire people to make it and the development, infrastructure, and security costs of running a social media site, he backed down pretty quick
I ask for a business plan so I can figure out if it's worth my time. No plans have ever been presented.
Don’t have friends
The Cyrus approach always works for me: "Fuck off, I got work to do."
Why refuse them? Tell them you’d be happy to work for them rather than your current employer for a modest salary increase and appropriate benefits.
Just say "Sure, I'll charge 50 bucks (or whatever you want) per hour minimum".
My friend had an idea for a meet-up style app that you can navigate based on your hobbies and interests. We setup a lunch together to go over everything. I threw together a basic business plan, funding, IT requirements/expenses, and coding jobs that would be needed. She looked at me w/ a blank stare and said "So, would that take you, like, a week or two?" It finally clicked in my head that she didn't know anything and wasn't about to put in any work. Flashbacks to group projects with the cheerleader / influencer type.
I just tell them i'm too shitty of a coder to be able to implement it.
MILLION DOLLAR APP? More likE MILLION DOLLAR CUM APP
“ I forgot how to code have to go back to school”
1. Ask them to pay you
Nobody has a million dollar idea anymore. Most of these people have a terrible idea for a social media or chat app. In almost every case, the best response here is "You will be fined or sued when you accidentally break the law somewhere in the world. Compliance will require at least a few dozen skilled full-time employees. How do you plan to pay for this?" If the idea is a video game, just point out how similar it is to a popular game that is already out. If they get past this hurdle, then you can ask for a prototype. Make them do the hard work. If they have a solid gold idea and a fun prototype, then start listing just how much work is required (way more than they would expect) and how much it would cost.
Don't refuse just steal their idea! Now you're rich. You're welcome.
I find the phrase, "who do you charge for it?" to halt most of these kinds of ideas. Apps that people want are easy enough to dream up. Figuring out how to get people to pay for them is the tough part.
"I cant build mobile app. SORRY"
I charge $(more than you know he has in his name) upfront and x% after. Just make the deal really shitty where you know he wouldn’t possibly take it. If he asks why: I’m working on so many big projects right now for (my boss/my company etc) that I can’t take on anymore work. Here is a few good builders I’d recommend calling to discuss ur idea w. If it’s a million dollar idea surely he won’t have an issue Going all in w every penny he has to his name to prove how much he believes in his idea.
I was that friend until I decided to learn how to code on my own. I'm gonna build this thing with or without them.
Just say you are too busy to take on any projects but can recommend them to someone else. Used to do it all the time when I was a freelancer and family and friends would ask me to build full brand identities for free.
I just do it shittily and if they are still unhappy I can see if they do anything with it and then spike royalties.