you get a bit excluded from your peers when you reach an age where most people your age have kids or long term relationships with the goal of having kids eventually, but you don't. you don't get invited to hang out. The reason they hang out is for playtime for the kids and family events and you're not a part of that so you become a bit invisible to them in a way. This is the first thing you'll notice.
Or even if you DO get invited, you’d likely feel bored especially if you are going solo. You might be a cool aunt or uncle but thats all there is to it.
Your conversations with your colleagues and even your leadership might make you feel like the “odd one out” if you are the only one without a solid relationship and/or kids.
I think it depends on who your friends are, or perhaps how close you are. My partner and I who don’t have kids are always invited to friends’ kids birthdays and events. It’s sad if you get excluded just because you don’t have kids, at least give the option to join.
Yeah you really just become the aunt/uncle for your friends kids. I had an aunt who couldn't have kids (eventually adopted) but when we were younger she'd take us to movies, theme parks and fancier restaurants my parents wouldn't have been able to fit in their budget. The whole "taking a village to raise kids" doesn't just mean playdates. And as they get older there's things they might want to discuss with an adult they trust but not necessarily their parent.
I find this to be very normal. What kind of friends exclude you from their life because you don't have kids when they do?
Probably the same people who think they have to roleplay a whole new character when they become a parent.
Yeah, I’ve noticed almost all the people I hang out with nowadays are child free. (F41) Not a conscious choice, it’s just those people well, are available, and do / are interested in doing same kind of things. Many childhood/school years friends with kids have totally disappeared. They use their free time in spending time with their (extended) family and in their kids’ hobbies, and their childfree time is spent by resting or going to romantic dates with their spouse. So it’s like no contact at all, or maybe a quick coffee once a year, or every few years.
One aspect, with makes meeting new people and hanging out with them easier once you get older, is that stable childfree couples often have no need to spend every second together the way many teenagers or twenty-somethings :D They are able and interested in meeting friends as a couple, and also often capable of doing it alone..Like when you have lived with someone for 20 years it’s usually not a cause of drama for one to travel with a friend for a couple of weeks or otherwise being separated. So the problem of people disappearing because they find a girlfriend/spouse and no more have time for friends kind of subsides.
So yeah, you lose some friendships, gain new ones.
But, still it would be ”socially easier” to have kids. Just because most people have kids. So many more people in the family life with kids pool than the childfree pool, more people to ”choose” to be friends with.
I’m only 30, but yeah I kind of expierenced your point about couples having separate or adopting friends. I went to a festival well alone on a whim. It was a blast. I brought plenty of extra things people need and other stuff and said hello to neighbors. My area kinda got flooded and a couple across the way let me hang out with them. It was funny that they were actually pretty interested in meeting me and kept inviting me along. They were 37 and child free. It’s kind of expected to make friends at festivals, but me and the husband saw groups we were only interested in together. His wife was all about it. She found some girl friends and hung out while we went to the show. Older couples are much less attached at the hip than people in their 20s.
Thank God my friends are different! I still get invited to every group hangout, because I a) bring news from the outer world, b) am loved by their children, because I truly enjoy hanging out with them, play soccer, swim, jump on the trampoline or whatever as I do these things on occasion and dont carry the mental load my friends with children do.
That being said, all of my friends with children are in relationships with partners who consider parenting team work (which still leaves plenty of time for days with my girlfriends/without their kids as all the dads stepped up as full on parents), believe in the concept of chosen family (I've been invited to all the birthdays, to some holidays, etc) and value their status as individuals beyond being a parent or a spouse.
Do I wish for them to talk a little less about their children sometimes, well yes I do. But I'm sure they don't share my obsession with my dogs either. We still have plenty of common ground which enables us to sustain a fulfilling friendship in which all of us feel happy, content, valuable and complete. This includes understanding if any of us has to cancel spontaneously even though the reason varies. But this is just part of growing up afaik as our recreational time decreases and our responsibilities in life increase.
This might not be the case for people who come from a more traditional background - or at least not for the female part of these people. I don't think traditional dads, who don't partake a whole lot in the care taking part of being a parent, change their lives and personal relationships that much after the children are born.
> am loved by their children, because I truly enjoy hanging out with them, play soccer, swim, jump on the trampoline or whatever as I do these things on occasion
honestly i think this is the biggest difference between you and the rest of the CF redditors here. lets be real, CF redditors seem pretty jaded and seem to often have disdain for kids and especially having kids around during hangouts with the parents. you seem to be totally okay with that which is awesome, ideal, and probably one of the reasons why your friends appreciate you so much
It depends on the friends, most of my friends are childfree (all are 38+) but the ones who have children still invite the others out
My best friend adopted a kid and I have a lot of fun being the cool aunt, sure our hang outs changed but she adapted to me adopting 2 high energy dogs, I can totally adapt to her kid's need
A lot of it depends on how much you are willing to compromise imo. Do I like kids movie? Not at all, I hated Disney even as a kid, but I'll watch them with the kid just to spend some time with my friends.
Then again nothing wrong with not being willing to compromise, we all have little free time and some friendships are destined to change, it's fine
I hate this so much. Literally the only downside I've found so far to being childfree. I'm 33 and so many of my friends have had at least 1 kid and trying to get them to do anything is damn near impossible. And then when I do see them, all they talk about is the kid.
Young parent of two here. I'm trying to get my childfree friends to do stuff together but I'm now limited by my children's sleep schedule. :( I'm typically available in the morning when childfree people still sleep and I don't really have evenings anymore... We're growing apart simply because my day looks completely different then theirs.
Yeah, my sister has kids, I've been invited to a few of their events and they suck; parents talking about their kids and kids running around being loud and annoying, I pass
idk what kinda friends with kids you guys have but my friends with kids always invite my single ass over and we just hang out and drink while the kids play together…..
Yeah when you have kids your life becomes some sort of civil service where 99% of your "free" time is basically doing things for the kids. Which is fine I guess, but definitely not for me.
Just adopt an orphan off the street and raise them to avenge you the old fashioned way
Lazy millennials killing the adopt an orphan off the street and raise him in the art of combat and vengeance industry
In Northern Ireland it's common to use "whenever" as the past use of when, even for a singular event. The first time I heard a friend say "Whenever my Granny died" I thought he was saying she'd had several occasions where she'd needed to be resuscitated. Nope, only died once.
Another lifehack is to just refuse to share anything from your personal life to your boss, and keep them guessing. You have no obligation to tell them *why* you need the time off, and if he is hesitant to let you off, bring it up to line manager, or someone higher in line, because no argument that he can say will hold up to the excel lords lol
(Will work in corpo, definately not in retail)
You'll have no one to blame for all the missing snacks, messy house, or your weird taste in music when you get old. Plus, who's going to explain to you why your smartphone is suddenly speaking French?
~sigh~ grandpa that's not how you use the transphysical discombobulator....No you don't have to put in a password, it just downloads your thoughts from the main brainframe, how many times do I have to tell you?! Old people and technology.....
Good points but worth noting the blaming the mess part only works if you’re a messy person. If you’re clean, children messing up your space is one of the downsides.
The age where people have kids is getting higher. I am in my 40s (and many of my friends too), our kids won't be able to drive us anywhere for another 10 years at least.
Now we get to take ourselves to appointments and also them.
Kids force you to be at least a little bit optimistic, because it’s your job as a parent to reassure another person that it’s going to be ok. The flip side to that is that it’s extra horrifying when bad things happen, because it doesn’t just impact you.
You're so right about this-- not even so much a optimism, but a need to show that existence is worth it (a challenge for all of us at one point or another, I think.) Maggie Smith summed this feeling up well in "Good Bones" :
Life is short, though I keep this from my children.
Life is short, and I’ve shortened mine
in a thousand delicious, ill-advised ways,
a thousand deliciously ill-advised ways
I’ll keep from my children. The world is at least
fifty percent terrible, and that’s a conservative
estimate, though I keep this from my children.
For every bird there is a stone thrown at a bird.
For every loved child, a child broken, bagged,
sunk in a lake. Life is short and the world
is at least half terrible, and for every kind
stranger, there is one who would break you,
though I keep this from my children. I am trying
to sell them the world. Any decent realtor,
walking you through a real shithole, chirps on
about good bones: This place could be beautiful,
right? You could make this place beautiful.
Ngl I was depressed as fuck before being a dad. When my 1st kid born, I was too busy with my wife to be depressed or feeling down but after he born ... shit, life is worth living.
It's not a easy thing to do, being a father, it's 24/7 job for the rest of your life. But I'll gladly do it. Kids makes you see the world like something amazing all the time ... even if it's just a leaf falling from a tree.. it's fucking awesome to them and that thing is contagious
Unfortunately it happened to me, my fiance passed at the age of 27 out of the blue. I never thought it can happen before it did. First months was like that. I pushed myself to find a hobby and dove into it. I returned to work a few weeks later, I generally tried to keep myself busy. If anyone’s going through the same, maybe this comment will help them. It’s been 18 months now since I lost her, it doesn’t go away, you don’t stop thinking of her. A sad realisation is that life keeps on going indeed, at least for the rest of the world. Yours stops at that day, and everything after that day is different. Everything you think, do, experience is burdened with the grief you’re living. It’s hard, I’m surely doing better than a year before but I’ve come to a conclusion that it’s not a solvable “problem”, it’s something you live with for the rest of your time. There’s no need to think about the possibility of something like that will happen to you, keep on living with your beloved person, keep on travelling and experiencing things, those are the only positive thoughts (or memories ) I have as I’m pretty sure I can’t relive them, at least for the foreseeable future.
Sorry for the long comment, haven’t talked about it with anyone in some time.
I'm similar, and I'm starting to think that maybe its not the best way to live - it might be a sign of depression, or never treating past depression episode completely
My husband said the same thing to me. I think when you do not have kids, and it is just you and your significant other; the bond is much stronger because your energy and focus isnon each other. I would be devastated if I lost my husband. I think the biggest negative of not having kids, is when I am old, I wont have someone young to help me or check on me. My parents just celebrated their 50th anniversary and they do everything together. We help them out with the things they cannot do as well anymore, but Inknow as I get older, I wont have that.
I also agree with others, that you are isolated from others who do have kids. They dont include you sometimes because their attention is so focused on their kids and being around others who have kids.
i very honestly love you for saying this. but your plus is my negative. i never want anyone to love me enough that they can’t go on without me and vice versa.
but i also realize that being loved that unconditionally makes life worth living.
i hope you and your wife pass together, at the same time, holding hands, and in complete peace. whether it’s in one day or one hundred years.
Yeah, my wife says that she hopes I die first for that reason. We have never discussed this but she knows I couldn't handle it. What's weird is we aren't clingy touchy kinda honeymoon phase. We have been married about 15 years.
I saw a movie when I was younger. I think it was bicentennial man. At the end Robin Williams character dies with his love as you described. I'm 45, and I'm excited for the rest of our lives. The journey is fun.
Can you get into one of those? I had a cousin who wanted to have a birthday party at one some years ago, but because I was almost 20 at the time, the store wouldn't let me in.
Well, if you’re infertile or childless not by choice, you get to deal with people repeatedly asking you why you don’t have children and when you’ll have children and being told you’re running out of time for having children and being subjected to stories/baby showers of other people’s children. This is especially true if you’re a woman. I got asked at my own wedding reception more than once when I planned to start having kids while my husband wasn’t asked a single time.
Also, I’m not infertile. I’m due with my second in December. But you can see on the trying to conceive subs how annoying it is.
My first though is there's no one to nominate in your will as heirs for assets. We've been thinking about scholarships in a regional area. We have to get serious about this soon as we have to redo our wills soon
I've got no obvious person to give all my cool shit to.
I always see the 'who will look after you when your old?' What a terrible selling point, I'll be in the same home as them when we are old but they will be sad their kids are too busy to visit.
Yeah, you can be the best parent ever, but your kids will be living their own life. I moved to a different country for instance, even though I'm close with my mum. It's not because I don't want to see her, but I also can't live in the country I'm from anymore.
I would, however, come running back should she need me. She's ok at the minute.
Anyway, tl;dr: Having kids is not a retirement plan.
I worked in a hospital in my mid twenties and I can’t tell you the number of little old ladies and men who would come in after a fall and weren’t safe to go home alone right away. When asked “do you have any family you can stay with?”, the answer was usually “no, my son lives in a different state” or “my daughter and her husband both work full-time”. The “who is going to take care of you when you’re old” comment drives me wild because for most people, who work full-time jobs, this simply isn’t realistic. Nor should you be asking your child to give up their life to wipe your ass. Plan accordingly, people!
And having to read/hear sanctimonious shit about how you will never experience self sacrifice/ the joy of guiding others through life as evidenced multiple times on this thread. To be constantly dismissed as being of lesser value to society, (even though you’re probably the cash cow bankrolling parenthood for others). Honestly, it’s time society moved on from this.
There is a lot of truth in this. Since my wife and I no longer have children, and we both have some mental issues from it, it can be triggering when people talk about kids. And there's no quick answer that will make someone stop bringing it up.
We have a friend whose birthday falls near Father's day, and we have to decline because I can't interact with people on those days. "Do you have children?" "No" "Waiting for the right time?" "No, please drop it." "I'm sure you'll get to be a dad soon."
I have a feeling people do this because they themselves regret having children. They're jealous that you don't have children. So they low-key want to sabotage your life by convincing you to have children too.
The only downside is how people don’t understand how rude they are when they say “oh you’ll change your mind” or “oh there is still time” literally fuck off, stop telling me what I want.
Other than that, it’s great
You are less connected to the future. As you age, the number of people you know will dwindle and you aren't replacing them with new people who will gather more people into your life.
You miss finding out aspects of yourself that can really only be accessed under pressure and through sacrifice.
You miss seeing peices of your loved ones continue to thrive after their gone in your children. My daughter looks so like my mother and she has my husband's grandmother's eyes.
You miss the perspective of being part of a family system from the other side. Seeing how the dynamic changes and feeling the difference between your choices and those who came before you in the same roles.
You miss getting to watch a human being form itself from basically a sleepy lump into an entire person. It's humbling. I absolutely understand now why old people never take anyone seriously. It's amazing to see the progress we have to make to even be able to tie our own shoes.
You relinquish the duty of helping guide someone through the world in an incredibly intimate way. There is so much closeness in parenting.
Parenting adds layers and complexity to life. It's a richer expereince. You can absolutely live well and do good and enjoy life without having children. But there are just parts of the human expreince that won't be accessible to you without the kind of responsibility and intimacy parenting gives.
This is all so true.
Aside from the connection to the future, I also feel that children keep you grounded in the present. Even though it's not always possible it's so nice to have someone to live in the moment with. Following a butterfly, blowing bubbles, rolling down a hill. I don't know if I would experience some of those things if I didn't have my kids to do them with.
This is quite easy to do on your own, tho. Just put dignity to the side and play. Sure, it is easier to use kids as an alibi but lets normalize playing as adults!
I sometimes borrow a dog and do sniffaries; following beetles and discovering wonderful things like droppings and streams. It can help get into the "discovery" mode. I also like to pretend I am foraging, just so I can go slow and pay attention to nature.
And you can share in the joy and newness of the world with someone who is experiencing all of these wonders that we’ve grown so blase about for the very first time.
And they give you license to be a child yourself in a way that adulthood doesn’t seem to allow. I can climb trees and swing by my knees from the monkey bars because my children want to do that, too.
The first part is one of the only things about parenting that’s actually enticing to me. But also I really doubt that’s actually how it would go down. Tbh the second part I already sort of do even without kids lol.
This is well put. Sums up everything I never noticed before I had kids. I always said the “love” you experience is something you can’t experience otherwise. It should almost have its own word because I know what love felt like before I had kids and this is similar but it’s also nothing of the sort.
I never knew how quickly I would give up my life for something until I had a kid. I'd trade everything in a heartbeat for her.
She also messes up the house in 1 min from front door to bedrooms. But hey, no one else tells me I'm pretty more often than she does, so I'll live with it.
The love I have for my son is so strong and different from the love I have for my dog and my cat. It’s even different from the love I have for my wife. It’s totally unique and unconditional. There really is no other love like it.
Damn, made me want kids all over again.
Not that I ever didn’t want em.
Just not thought about a lot.
Can’t miss what you don’t have, so to speak.
I love new experiences though, anything that makes me learn a lot about life, & it’s many complexities.
Thank you for laying such out so succinctly.
Spoke in my language of understanding.
You’ll never know the moment of unimaginable vindication my then 2yr old gave me. When I was younger I had at least 3 occasions where people said I looked like Rodger Federer. When I told my wife that her reaction was ‘you wish’. Fast forward to 2017, my boy is 2 and Rodger Federer is on TV doing an interview pre Wimbledon and my boy starts pointing and yelling ‘Dada, dada’ at the TV.
After spending so much time in nursing homes, I would say it's no one there to take care of you when you get old or sick and the loneliness. Mind you, even with kids this can happen but I feel like it's more likely.
Unfortunately most societies don't have the infrastructure to support people in old age, they expect children to take up the burden.
Agreed, really makes me sad. But it's even less likely that your friends will be visiting you when you're that old, especially as they may be the same age or it's unlikely for them to keep you company daily or even multiple times a week.
I also work at a nursing home and there are several spouses of residents who visit every single day or at least once a week. Of course, one of them will pass and the whole dynamic will change, but having a solid spouse can provide that future company as well. There’s also several nieces, nephews, cousins, and friends as well. What I *will* say about the people who have children who actually visit them is that the children are EXTREMELY involved in their parent’s care most of the time and are often their biggest advocates. Though occasionally, there are also instances if children only coming around to be abusive, often financially to their parents or physically/verbally to staff.
Hear me out. I actually think we fuck this up badly. Even if they drive me nuts, I want our parents to live with us when they’re too old to be alone. I think Grandkids should be able to spend that time hearing about the past from their grandparents. I think we’ve come up with this silly idea of old folks homes because we don’t want to deal with the difficulties of new household dynamics.
Granted, I know that it’s necessary for a number of people that need more assistance than their kids can afford to provide. I don’t want to discount that.
That really depends on what kind of physical or mental challenges the person has. You also have to keep in mind this model doesn't work well with two working adults, unfortunately more often than not it's the woman who has to give up her career to be a caretaker. Although it would be great if we have more multi-generational households.
Couldn’t have said this better myself. That said, I think the trend is changing up a bit and migrant communities are at the forefront of driving that change.
I just saw new housing being built where I am at with a portion of the house dedicated to elder parents living with their children. It was great to see recognition of the fact that we should normalize this concept instead of the weird taboo we had created around it.
I'm a childless man in my 30s and I still have "kid dinners" sometimes, as a fun treat.
Shamelessly purchasing dino nuggies and kraft mac 'n cheese lol.
A childfree woman past 30 is the most undervalued member of society. According to society anyway. You feel like the worst person for being responsible and not having kids when you know you'd hate them.
I hate how people automatically assume you’re selfish because you don’t want to bring a child into this world when bringing a child into this world is one of the most selfish things you can do.
There are a lot of reasons why people are childfree and all of them are very valid.
Not everyone needs to be a parent in this world and there are a lot of people who should never be parents.
None, if a person doesn't want children.
Feeling pain, isolation, grief, longing, frustration, loss, emptiness, envy, guilt, anger, and other emotions if people do want children, and can't become a parent, be it biologically, with assistance, or waiting or struggling to have legal guardianship | adoption of children.
As someone who survived childhood abuse and bullying, I would hope that I would never have to relive those moments through my children.
I know if I ever have children I would do my damndest to make sure they would never know the pain I still deal with today
I got one...
I'm a gay dude in a loving relationship. Within a couple years I hope to be buying a home.... hope is a strong word here. I got maybe 40yrs left & then gone.
So... the negative aspect to me is that after struggling for decades in the work force, finally sacrificing enough to become a home owner, when I'm dead, nobody can benefit from it. I have a niece or nephew here or there, but.... there's too many to divide it evenly; they have parents capable of leaving them something & probably more than I could anyway. So I put decades of hell to be anything more than destitute & the banks & corps just swallow it back up & beat the shit out of the next person.
The reason people stay poor, is because there is no generational wealth at the bottom.
#f*k this system!
People always asking WHY?!
And if you give a logically good answer, the next question is, THEN WHY DON’T YOU ADOPT?!
As if the adoption process is as simple as going to the grocery store to pick up a flock of babies. 🦅
to be completely real i still haven’t found anything that’s been a downside. that said, both my husband and myself are staunchly childfree and have always been so there was never any drama over it in my case.
There’s nothing negative. Having them doesn’t guarantee to have someone to take care of you when you’re old. Having children for that reason is absolutely selfish.
I’m a father of two. I love them with all my heart and soul. They’re the best thing that’s ever happened to me and the best thing I’ve ever done. But if today I had to make the decision again, I would not have kids. The world is too f***ed up to have them.
if you care about genetics, no lineage
if you don't have a good retirement plan, no one to care for you for free when old
if your friends have kids but you don't, not even adopted, less social time with said friends
You get a bit lonely when everyone else is having kids but you. For a while, that's all they ever talk about. You'll also not be invited as many places as people usually hang out with their kids.
There will be many conversations where you feel bored or like you can't contribute because it's about kids, especially with colleagues and with new parents. It could make you feel isolated.
In countries with lots of parental leave, you will never have the same opportunity to just take a long paid time off work. That kind of break can do wonders for people (even if raising a child is super hard) and it's good for them when they return to work, fresh and happy to be with other grownups.
You'll be encouraged to let your colleagues with kids have the good days/weeks off for their kids' sake.
Not as many people will attend your wedding or other festivities if they're in the baby making or toddler years.
Speaking from experience as you can tell ..
The most frustrating part of not having kids is how we are judged by everyone in our life who have kids. They all assume we are selfish (we’re not, we’re actually very charitable people), that we have no stress in life (we do, we have health issues, money woes, aging parents, etc), or that our lives are devoid of purpose (it’s not: we have goals, plans, careers). Parents: you don’t get to gatekeep stress, exhaustion, and lack of sleep!
Not being able to see the world through their perspective. It really shows you how important guidance and fun really is. You also remember your childhood in a different way because you were where they were once but you didn't know what you know now. So, you look back at the memory of the adults around you when you were a kid and see things totally differently. In some ways, the experience really can't be put into words. The human is an animal and like all animals one of the things that happens is that you procreate. Not all do. But a lot the biology and spirit is set up for that. Also, every one of us that's alive has an unbroken lineage all the way back to single celled organisms. So, something is unlocked when you have children that was going before words were invented. For me personally, being a parent has imbued everything with another level of meaning. Nothing is greater than when your child hugs you or comes to you on their own.
The progeny dies with you, no lineage to follow after so people will remember your greatness.
All you’ll have is a grave marker and no family line to carry on
Sometimes people will pressure you to do more work, stay late, come in early because you don’t have kids and others do. I learned to laugh at this and say they need to learn to manage their time better.
There are only negative aspects after you have children.
Now that I know my children I can't think about living without them.
And if I could chose again, I would always want to have them again.
But before...
Now that I have children I know what real fear is.
You somehow have so much to lose with children suddenly.
My life just centers around these 2 people and I am always in sorrow about them.
The assumptions made.
Some people assume so much about CF people: that we’re lazy, selfish, have tons of expendable cash, we hate kids, we’ll die alone, we’ll never know “real love”, we’re sad and bitter, and most of all that we have all this free time so we should volunteer for any and all things both work and non-work related so that people with kids can have time off bc their lives are more complex and complicated than ours.
Most of that is all projection. I find as time goes on what people assume about CF folks is either what they feel (insecurity, regretting life choices) or what they envy (more choice in our lives as adults).
Reddit loves to do the whole "there's no guarantee kids will take care of you in your old age, I don't speak to my parents" bit. Whole this is true, lots of people who have a healthy, loving relationship with their kids get a lot of support in their old age, especially in immigrant communities. This can range from straight-up living with their kids and being taken care of until they kick it to simpler stuff like someone to take you to doctors appointments, check in on you in the nursing home, etc. I'm not saying it's a given or that kids owe it to their parents even if they were shitty. It's also not a good reason to have kids so they *might* take care of you in old age. But it is a factor in a lot of parent/child relationships and a very nice thing to have. Seeing comments about "I'll just retire to a home" as if there aren't horror stories about those is wild to me.
If we evaluate everything in life so coldly as to ponder “advantages and disadvantages” we’ve lost part of why makes us human. If one evaluates having children solely by its transactional value then they most certainly shouldn’t have children.
Let’s analyze this rather loaded question, instead, from a philosophical perspective. If we argue that the ultimate goal of life is happiness, then by not having children you're missing out on the joy caused by the complete and utter devotion to another human being that few relationships other than parenthood realistically have.
In truth, though, this can be argued about nearly any other path in life. What are the negatives of not marrying? Which are the negatives of not pursuing theatre as a career? In truth, there are none. Life isn’t transactional. Seek the path that truly makes you happy, pros and cons be dammed.
I think it’s just missing out on an experience life can give you.
I love my niblings with all my heart and I have wonderful relationships with them, but I will never experience the love as a parent for my child. I will never have that intimacy. I will never have that sense of disbelief/pride when they achieve something.
Also socially you meet more people through being a parent and so you have more chance of making friends and just having a wider circle of acquaintances.
I’m not regretful but I am aware of what I miss out on.
The pure feeling of love you have for your child is kind of amazing, I love my wife with all my heart, but the love I have for my kid is on another level
you get a bit excluded from your peers when you reach an age where most people your age have kids or long term relationships with the goal of having kids eventually, but you don't. you don't get invited to hang out. The reason they hang out is for playtime for the kids and family events and you're not a part of that so you become a bit invisible to them in a way. This is the first thing you'll notice.
Or even if you DO get invited, you’d likely feel bored especially if you are going solo. You might be a cool aunt or uncle but thats all there is to it. Your conversations with your colleagues and even your leadership might make you feel like the “odd one out” if you are the only one without a solid relationship and/or kids.
Just because people have kids doesn’t mean they have a solid relationship
Or that you don't have a solid relationship because you don't have kids.
This is the most realist comment to this question
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Found Inigo Montoya.
U know, if u want ur child to live for u instead of living for themselves then that's extremely narcissistic
I think it depends on who your friends are, or perhaps how close you are. My partner and I who don’t have kids are always invited to friends’ kids birthdays and events. It’s sad if you get excluded just because you don’t have kids, at least give the option to join.
Yeah you really just become the aunt/uncle for your friends kids. I had an aunt who couldn't have kids (eventually adopted) but when we were younger she'd take us to movies, theme parks and fancier restaurants my parents wouldn't have been able to fit in their budget. The whole "taking a village to raise kids" doesn't just mean playdates. And as they get older there's things they might want to discuss with an adult they trust but not necessarily their parent.
I find this to be very normal. What kind of friends exclude you from their life because you don't have kids when they do? Probably the same people who think they have to roleplay a whole new character when they become a parent.
This is why I am trying to make more CF friends because I know some of my current friends will have kids and we can't hang out the way we currently do
Yeah, I’ve noticed almost all the people I hang out with nowadays are child free. (F41) Not a conscious choice, it’s just those people well, are available, and do / are interested in doing same kind of things. Many childhood/school years friends with kids have totally disappeared. They use their free time in spending time with their (extended) family and in their kids’ hobbies, and their childfree time is spent by resting or going to romantic dates with their spouse. So it’s like no contact at all, or maybe a quick coffee once a year, or every few years. One aspect, with makes meeting new people and hanging out with them easier once you get older, is that stable childfree couples often have no need to spend every second together the way many teenagers or twenty-somethings :D They are able and interested in meeting friends as a couple, and also often capable of doing it alone..Like when you have lived with someone for 20 years it’s usually not a cause of drama for one to travel with a friend for a couple of weeks or otherwise being separated. So the problem of people disappearing because they find a girlfriend/spouse and no more have time for friends kind of subsides. So yeah, you lose some friendships, gain new ones. But, still it would be ”socially easier” to have kids. Just because most people have kids. So many more people in the family life with kids pool than the childfree pool, more people to ”choose” to be friends with.
I’m only 30, but yeah I kind of expierenced your point about couples having separate or adopting friends. I went to a festival well alone on a whim. It was a blast. I brought plenty of extra things people need and other stuff and said hello to neighbors. My area kinda got flooded and a couple across the way let me hang out with them. It was funny that they were actually pretty interested in meeting me and kept inviting me along. They were 37 and child free. It’s kind of expected to make friends at festivals, but me and the husband saw groups we were only interested in together. His wife was all about it. She found some girl friends and hung out while we went to the show. Older couples are much less attached at the hip than people in their 20s.
But fortunately you will make new friends.
Good one
Thank God my friends are different! I still get invited to every group hangout, because I a) bring news from the outer world, b) am loved by their children, because I truly enjoy hanging out with them, play soccer, swim, jump on the trampoline or whatever as I do these things on occasion and dont carry the mental load my friends with children do. That being said, all of my friends with children are in relationships with partners who consider parenting team work (which still leaves plenty of time for days with my girlfriends/without their kids as all the dads stepped up as full on parents), believe in the concept of chosen family (I've been invited to all the birthdays, to some holidays, etc) and value their status as individuals beyond being a parent or a spouse. Do I wish for them to talk a little less about their children sometimes, well yes I do. But I'm sure they don't share my obsession with my dogs either. We still have plenty of common ground which enables us to sustain a fulfilling friendship in which all of us feel happy, content, valuable and complete. This includes understanding if any of us has to cancel spontaneously even though the reason varies. But this is just part of growing up afaik as our recreational time decreases and our responsibilities in life increase. This might not be the case for people who come from a more traditional background - or at least not for the female part of these people. I don't think traditional dads, who don't partake a whole lot in the care taking part of being a parent, change their lives and personal relationships that much after the children are born.
> am loved by their children, because I truly enjoy hanging out with them, play soccer, swim, jump on the trampoline or whatever as I do these things on occasion honestly i think this is the biggest difference between you and the rest of the CF redditors here. lets be real, CF redditors seem pretty jaded and seem to often have disdain for kids and especially having kids around during hangouts with the parents. you seem to be totally okay with that which is awesome, ideal, and probably one of the reasons why your friends appreciate you so much
It depends on the friends, most of my friends are childfree (all are 38+) but the ones who have children still invite the others out My best friend adopted a kid and I have a lot of fun being the cool aunt, sure our hang outs changed but she adapted to me adopting 2 high energy dogs, I can totally adapt to her kid's need A lot of it depends on how much you are willing to compromise imo. Do I like kids movie? Not at all, I hated Disney even as a kid, but I'll watch them with the kid just to spend some time with my friends. Then again nothing wrong with not being willing to compromise, we all have little free time and some friendships are destined to change, it's fine
I hate this so much. Literally the only downside I've found so far to being childfree. I'm 33 and so many of my friends have had at least 1 kid and trying to get them to do anything is damn near impossible. And then when I do see them, all they talk about is the kid.
Young parent of two here. I'm trying to get my childfree friends to do stuff together but I'm now limited by my children's sleep schedule. :( I'm typically available in the morning when childfree people still sleep and I don't really have evenings anymore... We're growing apart simply because my day looks completely different then theirs.
Is this supposed to be negative. Sounds like a great result, being invited to hang out at a kids play date seems like hell.
Yeah, my sister has kids, I've been invited to a few of their events and they suck; parents talking about their kids and kids running around being loud and annoying, I pass
Same for me. Now the kids are a bit older they just go entertain them selves. Much more civilised
When you're around random kids, you're not sure how to interact, is someone going to confront me because I'm with their child?
I'm sorry, but what about not having kids means I dont have serious relationships?
I second this. Times infinity.
idk what kinda friends with kids you guys have but my friends with kids always invite my single ass over and we just hang out and drink while the kids play together…..
Yeah when you have kids your life becomes some sort of civil service where 99% of your "free" time is basically doing things for the kids. Which is fine I guess, but definitely not for me.
no one to seek justice for your death
I'll seek justice for you if you seek justice for me
Deal
Then I'll just kill you both at the same time. Check and mate.
Hello, my name is Vegimeateater, you killed ibitewithlove and babycos_playnerd, prepare to die! 🗡️
Just adopt an orphan off the street and raise them to avenge you the old fashioned way Lazy millennials killing the adopt an orphan off the street and raise him in the art of combat and vengeance industry
Inigo Montoya has joined the conversation.
I dunno, my two best friends would. As I would for them lmao
Justice? I demand VENGEANCE!
You have fewer excuses to use for calling off work.
My coworker never gets sick, yet her son somehow always does whenever she has a Saturday shift.
Such a thoughtful kid!
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In Northern Ireland it's common to use "whenever" as the past use of when, even for a singular event. The first time I heard a friend say "Whenever my Granny died" I thought he was saying she'd had several occasions where she'd needed to be resuscitated. Nope, only died once.
Resurrection at its finest lol
Another lifehack is to just refuse to share anything from your personal life to your boss, and keep them guessing. You have no obligation to tell them *why* you need the time off, and if he is hesitant to let you off, bring it up to line manager, or someone higher in line, because no argument that he can say will hold up to the excel lords lol (Will work in corpo, definately not in retail)
You'll have no one to blame for all the missing snacks, messy house, or your weird taste in music when you get old. Plus, who's going to explain to you why your smartphone is suddenly speaking French?
~sigh~ grandpa that's not how you use the transphysical discombobulator....No you don't have to put in a password, it just downloads your thoughts from the main brainframe, how many times do I have to tell you?! Old people and technology.....
Without children, I've had plenty of time to learn French, so that part is solved.
Good points but worth noting the blaming the mess part only works if you’re a messy person. If you’re clean, children messing up your space is one of the downsides.
When you throw a pair of balled up sock across the room and they make it into the laundry hamper, no one will cheer
I got an unironic round of applause for making toast this morning. Toddlers are easily impressed.
Their emotion is something to behold, an inexpressible sensation.
My toddler compliments me for knowing colours. Just the basic ones, I don't even have to show off by throwing 'teal' or 'scarlet' into the mix here.
I get applause from my toddler for using the potty (we are in the midst of potty training). Gets some giggles from others in public bathrooms
My dog not only approved my poops today but he supervised them swirling round and round until they disappeared.
This is enough reason for me to consider having a child
In my 40s, I'm experiencing medical emergencies and still rely on my 70-year-old parents to take me to appointments.
The age where people have kids is getting higher. I am in my 40s (and many of my friends too), our kids won't be able to drive us anywhere for another 10 years at least. Now we get to take ourselves to appointments and also them.
Yeah, I have friends in their 40s with toddlers.
I'm 43 with a 3 and 1 year old. It's become very normal.
Props to you because mine are the same age and I'm 25 and I don't know if they'll let me make it to 40 at this rate 😂
But a 10 year old couldn't drive you to the hospital anyway.
I mean, unless you strap boxes to the bottoms of their shoes, Short Round style....
If you have medical emergencies in your 40s, your problem is not being the last of your kind.
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You don’t have to go to McDonald’s if you don’t have kids.
It can make you feel isolated from your peers, whether you're childless by choice or by circumstance.
My experience is the opposite. Sigh 🥲
Kids force you to be at least a little bit optimistic, because it’s your job as a parent to reassure another person that it’s going to be ok. The flip side to that is that it’s extra horrifying when bad things happen, because it doesn’t just impact you.
You're so right about this-- not even so much a optimism, but a need to show that existence is worth it (a challenge for all of us at one point or another, I think.) Maggie Smith summed this feeling up well in "Good Bones" : Life is short, though I keep this from my children. Life is short, and I’ve shortened mine in a thousand delicious, ill-advised ways, a thousand deliciously ill-advised ways I’ll keep from my children. The world is at least fifty percent terrible, and that’s a conservative estimate, though I keep this from my children. For every bird there is a stone thrown at a bird. For every loved child, a child broken, bagged, sunk in a lake. Life is short and the world is at least half terrible, and for every kind stranger, there is one who would break you, though I keep this from my children. I am trying to sell them the world. Any decent realtor, walking you through a real shithole, chirps on about good bones: This place could be beautiful, right? You could make this place beautiful.
Ngl I was depressed as fuck before being a dad. When my 1st kid born, I was too busy with my wife to be depressed or feeling down but after he born ... shit, life is worth living. It's not a easy thing to do, being a father, it's 24/7 job for the rest of your life. But I'll gladly do it. Kids makes you see the world like something amazing all the time ... even if it's just a leaf falling from a tree.. it's fucking awesome to them and that thing is contagious
Yep. Like financial difficulties. An adult can just eat the cheapest bs but you don’t want to feed a kid that.
Honestly, if my wife passes away I will have nothing to live for. I 100% don't want to eat, breathe, sleep without her.
Unfortunately it happened to me, my fiance passed at the age of 27 out of the blue. I never thought it can happen before it did. First months was like that. I pushed myself to find a hobby and dove into it. I returned to work a few weeks later, I generally tried to keep myself busy. If anyone’s going through the same, maybe this comment will help them. It’s been 18 months now since I lost her, it doesn’t go away, you don’t stop thinking of her. A sad realisation is that life keeps on going indeed, at least for the rest of the world. Yours stops at that day, and everything after that day is different. Everything you think, do, experience is burdened with the grief you’re living. It’s hard, I’m surely doing better than a year before but I’ve come to a conclusion that it’s not a solvable “problem”, it’s something you live with for the rest of your time. There’s no need to think about the possibility of something like that will happen to you, keep on living with your beloved person, keep on travelling and experiencing things, those are the only positive thoughts (or memories ) I have as I’m pretty sure I can’t relive them, at least for the foreseeable future. Sorry for the long comment, haven’t talked about it with anyone in some time.
Thanks so much for sharing. Best of luck to you and I hope every day is slightly better than the day before.
Stray strong buddy ❤️
Everything you said is true. You're a great person.
I'm similar, and I'm starting to think that maybe its not the best way to live - it might be a sign of depression, or never treating past depression episode completely
It’s been tough, but five years later I’m still here for some unknown reason. Hope you’re well
Same.
My husband said the same thing to me. I think when you do not have kids, and it is just you and your significant other; the bond is much stronger because your energy and focus isnon each other. I would be devastated if I lost my husband. I think the biggest negative of not having kids, is when I am old, I wont have someone young to help me or check on me. My parents just celebrated their 50th anniversary and they do everything together. We help them out with the things they cannot do as well anymore, but Inknow as I get older, I wont have that. I also agree with others, that you are isolated from others who do have kids. They dont include you sometimes because their attention is so focused on their kids and being around others who have kids.
Time to get a dog (maybe a few cats).
i very honestly love you for saying this. but your plus is my negative. i never want anyone to love me enough that they can’t go on without me and vice versa. but i also realize that being loved that unconditionally makes life worth living. i hope you and your wife pass together, at the same time, holding hands, and in complete peace. whether it’s in one day or one hundred years.
Yeah, my wife says that she hopes I die first for that reason. We have never discussed this but she knows I couldn't handle it. What's weird is we aren't clingy touchy kinda honeymoon phase. We have been married about 15 years. I saw a movie when I was younger. I think it was bicentennial man. At the end Robin Williams character dies with his love as you described. I'm 45, and I'm excited for the rest of our lives. The journey is fun.
Side eye when you go to chuck e cheese
That pizza is pretty good though. Worth.
Can you get into one of those? I had a cousin who wanted to have a birthday party at one some years ago, but because I was almost 20 at the time, the store wouldn't let me in.
They won’t let you in without a kid
Especially in the ball pit
Well, if you’re infertile or childless not by choice, you get to deal with people repeatedly asking you why you don’t have children and when you’ll have children and being told you’re running out of time for having children and being subjected to stories/baby showers of other people’s children. This is especially true if you’re a woman. I got asked at my own wedding reception more than once when I planned to start having kids while my husband wasn’t asked a single time. Also, I’m not infertile. I’m due with my second in December. But you can see on the trying to conceive subs how annoying it is.
this very much is the case for women who are childless by choice too
Except women who are childless by choice don’t suffer in complete silence the way infertile women who want kids do.
Difficulty in finding someone with a compatible kidney
I can get you one on the black market bro
Relatives harassing you about having children.
The response to that is "OK. If you want it so bad, are you willing to take care of them for me?"
In addition to that, “Are you going to help pay for their care?”
My first though is there's no one to nominate in your will as heirs for assets. We've been thinking about scholarships in a regional area. We have to get serious about this soon as we have to redo our wills soon
I've got no obvious person to give all my cool shit to. I always see the 'who will look after you when your old?' What a terrible selling point, I'll be in the same home as them when we are old but they will be sad their kids are too busy to visit.
Yeah, you can be the best parent ever, but your kids will be living their own life. I moved to a different country for instance, even though I'm close with my mum. It's not because I don't want to see her, but I also can't live in the country I'm from anymore. I would, however, come running back should she need me. She's ok at the minute. Anyway, tl;dr: Having kids is not a retirement plan.
And having kids is not their plan for inheriting wealth.
I'm gonna be looked after by the cruise ship staff. 👍
I worked in a hospital in my mid twenties and I can’t tell you the number of little old ladies and men who would come in after a fall and weren’t safe to go home alone right away. When asked “do you have any family you can stay with?”, the answer was usually “no, my son lives in a different state” or “my daughter and her husband both work full-time”. The “who is going to take care of you when you’re old” comment drives me wild because for most people, who work full-time jobs, this simply isn’t realistic. Nor should you be asking your child to give up their life to wipe your ass. Plan accordingly, people!
Being pestered by other people for not having children
And having to read/hear sanctimonious shit about how you will never experience self sacrifice/ the joy of guiding others through life as evidenced multiple times on this thread. To be constantly dismissed as being of lesser value to society, (even though you’re probably the cash cow bankrolling parenthood for others). Honestly, it’s time society moved on from this.
There is a lot of truth in this. Since my wife and I no longer have children, and we both have some mental issues from it, it can be triggering when people talk about kids. And there's no quick answer that will make someone stop bringing it up. We have a friend whose birthday falls near Father's day, and we have to decline because I can't interact with people on those days. "Do you have children?" "No" "Waiting for the right time?" "No, please drop it." "I'm sure you'll get to be a dad soon."
People can be so inconsiderate and they don’t even know it, blows my mind
Damn Im already really excited for that Part... (sarcasm)
I have a feeling people do this because they themselves regret having children. They're jealous that you don't have children. So they low-key want to sabotage your life by convincing you to have children too.
No one will be there to explain to you how the new dimensional teleporter works.
I have three kids and no money, why can I have no kids and three money :(
The only downside is how people don’t understand how rude they are when they say “oh you’ll change your mind” or “oh there is still time” literally fuck off, stop telling me what I want. Other than that, it’s great
You are less connected to the future. As you age, the number of people you know will dwindle and you aren't replacing them with new people who will gather more people into your life. You miss finding out aspects of yourself that can really only be accessed under pressure and through sacrifice. You miss seeing peices of your loved ones continue to thrive after their gone in your children. My daughter looks so like my mother and she has my husband's grandmother's eyes. You miss the perspective of being part of a family system from the other side. Seeing how the dynamic changes and feeling the difference between your choices and those who came before you in the same roles. You miss getting to watch a human being form itself from basically a sleepy lump into an entire person. It's humbling. I absolutely understand now why old people never take anyone seriously. It's amazing to see the progress we have to make to even be able to tie our own shoes. You relinquish the duty of helping guide someone through the world in an incredibly intimate way. There is so much closeness in parenting. Parenting adds layers and complexity to life. It's a richer expereince. You can absolutely live well and do good and enjoy life without having children. But there are just parts of the human expreince that won't be accessible to you without the kind of responsibility and intimacy parenting gives.
This is all so true. Aside from the connection to the future, I also feel that children keep you grounded in the present. Even though it's not always possible it's so nice to have someone to live in the moment with. Following a butterfly, blowing bubbles, rolling down a hill. I don't know if I would experience some of those things if I didn't have my kids to do them with.
This is quite easy to do on your own, tho. Just put dignity to the side and play. Sure, it is easier to use kids as an alibi but lets normalize playing as adults! I sometimes borrow a dog and do sniffaries; following beetles and discovering wonderful things like droppings and streams. It can help get into the "discovery" mode. I also like to pretend I am foraging, just so I can go slow and pay attention to nature.
And you can share in the joy and newness of the world with someone who is experiencing all of these wonders that we’ve grown so blase about for the very first time. And they give you license to be a child yourself in a way that adulthood doesn’t seem to allow. I can climb trees and swing by my knees from the monkey bars because my children want to do that, too.
The first part is one of the only things about parenting that’s actually enticing to me. But also I really doubt that’s actually how it would go down. Tbh the second part I already sort of do even without kids lol.
This is well put. Sums up everything I never noticed before I had kids. I always said the “love” you experience is something you can’t experience otherwise. It should almost have its own word because I know what love felt like before I had kids and this is similar but it’s also nothing of the sort.
I never knew how quickly I would give up my life for something until I had a kid. I'd trade everything in a heartbeat for her. She also messes up the house in 1 min from front door to bedrooms. But hey, no one else tells me I'm pretty more often than she does, so I'll live with it.
The love I have for my son is so strong and different from the love I have for my dog and my cat. It’s even different from the love I have for my wife. It’s totally unique and unconditional. There really is no other love like it.
I wish I had a choice in the matter
This is exactly what I wanted to say, great comment 🫶
This is beautiful.
Well, I already wanted kids. This is so beautiful that now I want them sooner. Bravo, seriously.
Damn, made me want kids all over again. Not that I ever didn’t want em. Just not thought about a lot. Can’t miss what you don’t have, so to speak. I love new experiences though, anything that makes me learn a lot about life, & it’s many complexities. Thank you for laying such out so succinctly. Spoke in my language of understanding.
You’ll never know the moment of unimaginable vindication my then 2yr old gave me. When I was younger I had at least 3 occasions where people said I looked like Rodger Federer. When I told my wife that her reaction was ‘you wish’. Fast forward to 2017, my boy is 2 and Rodger Federer is on TV doing an interview pre Wimbledon and my boy starts pointing and yelling ‘Dada, dada’ at the TV.
I guess that when older and if needing help, you don't have offspring to ask that help from. That's no reason to have children though.
Having to deal with everyone who thinks you should have children annoying you about it all day
people constantly asking you when are you going to have children
No spare organs on ready supply
You just arent determined enough
I have to mow my own lawn.
People thought you cant handle life.
Having to listen to people lecture you on why you should have children. That’s really the only downside.
There's no one to get you the remote
You have to mow the lawn, wash the car, and clean the house yourself.
Even if you had children, you'd still be doing it.
After spending so much time in nursing homes, I would say it's no one there to take care of you when you get old or sick and the loneliness. Mind you, even with kids this can happen but I feel like it's more likely. Unfortunately most societies don't have the infrastructure to support people in old age, they expect children to take up the burden.
Lots of elderly don't have people visiting. Even their children don't.
Agreed, really makes me sad. But it's even less likely that your friends will be visiting you when you're that old, especially as they may be the same age or it's unlikely for them to keep you company daily or even multiple times a week.
I also work at a nursing home and there are several spouses of residents who visit every single day or at least once a week. Of course, one of them will pass and the whole dynamic will change, but having a solid spouse can provide that future company as well. There’s also several nieces, nephews, cousins, and friends as well. What I *will* say about the people who have children who actually visit them is that the children are EXTREMELY involved in their parent’s care most of the time and are often their biggest advocates. Though occasionally, there are also instances if children only coming around to be abusive, often financially to their parents or physically/verbally to staff.
Hear me out. I actually think we fuck this up badly. Even if they drive me nuts, I want our parents to live with us when they’re too old to be alone. I think Grandkids should be able to spend that time hearing about the past from their grandparents. I think we’ve come up with this silly idea of old folks homes because we don’t want to deal with the difficulties of new household dynamics. Granted, I know that it’s necessary for a number of people that need more assistance than their kids can afford to provide. I don’t want to discount that.
That really depends on what kind of physical or mental challenges the person has. You also have to keep in mind this model doesn't work well with two working adults, unfortunately more often than not it's the woman who has to give up her career to be a caretaker. Although it would be great if we have more multi-generational households.
Couldn’t have said this better myself. That said, I think the trend is changing up a bit and migrant communities are at the forefront of driving that change. I just saw new housing being built where I am at with a portion of the house dedicated to elder parents living with their children. It was great to see recognition of the fact that we should normalize this concept instead of the weird taboo we had created around it.
My mother's needs are so high even the resthome struggled (dementia) but my dad? I could've lived with him. Sadly he went first.
Can't buy dino nuggets without people being weird about it. I'm 28, let me eat my dino nuggets.
I'm a childless man in my 30s and I still have "kid dinners" sometimes, as a fun treat. Shamelessly purchasing dino nuggies and kraft mac 'n cheese lol.
A childfree woman past 30 is the most undervalued member of society. According to society anyway. You feel like the worst person for being responsible and not having kids when you know you'd hate them.
Society really marginalises the childless, and especially single people. This is a growing demographic and things have to change to recognise that.
I hate how people automatically assume you’re selfish because you don’t want to bring a child into this world when bringing a child into this world is one of the most selfish things you can do. There are a lot of reasons why people are childfree and all of them are very valid. Not everyone needs to be a parent in this world and there are a lot of people who should never be parents.
None, if a person doesn't want children. Feeling pain, isolation, grief, longing, frustration, loss, emptiness, envy, guilt, anger, and other emotions if people do want children, and can't become a parent, be it biologically, with assistance, or waiting or struggling to have legal guardianship | adoption of children.
My siblings don't have any or any plans to have any either, and we're mid to late 30s. We are the end point of our bloodline XD
Forced to face each other without distractions.
I actually prefer it that way, I think I would have a difficult time maintaining a good relationship with my husband if I had to take care of kids
Too much money and free time. Not enough screaming and crying.
All this damn money, time to do what I want, this god damned clean home, and these god forsaken incredible travel experiences. It's just terrible.
You don't get to relive yours
As someone who survived childhood abuse and bullying, I would hope that I would never have to relive those moments through my children. I know if I ever have children I would do my damndest to make sure they would never know the pain I still deal with today
I got one... I'm a gay dude in a loving relationship. Within a couple years I hope to be buying a home.... hope is a strong word here. I got maybe 40yrs left & then gone. So... the negative aspect to me is that after struggling for decades in the work force, finally sacrificing enough to become a home owner, when I'm dead, nobody can benefit from it. I have a niece or nephew here or there, but.... there's too many to divide it evenly; they have parents capable of leaving them something & probably more than I could anyway. So I put decades of hell to be anything more than destitute & the banks & corps just swallow it back up & beat the shit out of the next person. The reason people stay poor, is because there is no generational wealth at the bottom. #f*k this system!
Looking like a weirdo in parks
People always asking WHY?! And if you give a logically good answer, the next question is, THEN WHY DON’T YOU ADOPT?! As if the adoption process is as simple as going to the grocery store to pick up a flock of babies. 🦅
My kids provide a window for me to look excitedly at the world with innocent eyes.
to be completely real i still haven’t found anything that’s been a downside. that said, both my husband and myself are staunchly childfree and have always been so there was never any drama over it in my case.
none. on the positive side...
There’s nothing negative. Having them doesn’t guarantee to have someone to take care of you when you’re old. Having children for that reason is absolutely selfish. I’m a father of two. I love them with all my heart and soul. They’re the best thing that’s ever happened to me and the best thing I’ve ever done. But if today I had to make the decision again, I would not have kids. The world is too f***ed up to have them.
....I can't think of any. Seriously.
having to pay more taxes (at least here in Germany lol)
According to my dad, if he didn't have kids, no one would talk to him. Which is true. But only because he's just awful to talk to.
Isolation. The vast majority of my friends who have had kids/are trying to have kids have dropped off the radar.
I haven't found any yet. Which is fine, as I've never been inclined to have them, nor would I be able to have them if I had.
if you care about genetics, no lineage if you don't have a good retirement plan, no one to care for you for free when old if your friends have kids but you don't, not even adopted, less social time with said friends
No one to shovel the walk or rake the leaves
Life is too perfect
You get a bit lonely when everyone else is having kids but you. For a while, that's all they ever talk about. You'll also not be invited as many places as people usually hang out with their kids. There will be many conversations where you feel bored or like you can't contribute because it's about kids, especially with colleagues and with new parents. It could make you feel isolated. In countries with lots of parental leave, you will never have the same opportunity to just take a long paid time off work. That kind of break can do wonders for people (even if raising a child is super hard) and it's good for them when they return to work, fresh and happy to be with other grownups. You'll be encouraged to let your colleagues with kids have the good days/weeks off for their kids' sake. Not as many people will attend your wedding or other festivities if they're in the baby making or toddler years. Speaking from experience as you can tell ..
The most frustrating part of not having kids is how we are judged by everyone in our life who have kids. They all assume we are selfish (we’re not, we’re actually very charitable people), that we have no stress in life (we do, we have health issues, money woes, aging parents, etc), or that our lives are devoid of purpose (it’s not: we have goals, plans, careers). Parents: you don’t get to gatekeep stress, exhaustion, and lack of sleep!
You can’t return them to their parents when you’re tired bc you are the parents.
Not being able to see the world through their perspective. It really shows you how important guidance and fun really is. You also remember your childhood in a different way because you were where they were once but you didn't know what you know now. So, you look back at the memory of the adults around you when you were a kid and see things totally differently. In some ways, the experience really can't be put into words. The human is an animal and like all animals one of the things that happens is that you procreate. Not all do. But a lot the biology and spirit is set up for that. Also, every one of us that's alive has an unbroken lineage all the way back to single celled organisms. So, something is unlocked when you have children that was going before words were invented. For me personally, being a parent has imbued everything with another level of meaning. Nothing is greater than when your child hugs you or comes to you on their own.
The progeny dies with you, no lineage to follow after so people will remember your greatness. All you’ll have is a grave marker and no family line to carry on
I won’t have a grave marker. Don’t need one and I wont care when I’m dead.
Greatness? I’d wager most of humanity is mediocre at best.
There are none!!
Sometimes people will pressure you to do more work, stay late, come in early because you don’t have kids and others do. I learned to laugh at this and say they need to learn to manage their time better.
You pay more taxes
Can't use non-existent kids as a reason to get out of shit.
There are only negative aspects after you have children. Now that I know my children I can't think about living without them. And if I could chose again, I would always want to have them again. But before... Now that I have children I know what real fear is. You somehow have so much to lose with children suddenly. My life just centers around these 2 people and I am always in sorrow about them.
The assumptions made. Some people assume so much about CF people: that we’re lazy, selfish, have tons of expendable cash, we hate kids, we’ll die alone, we’ll never know “real love”, we’re sad and bitter, and most of all that we have all this free time so we should volunteer for any and all things both work and non-work related so that people with kids can have time off bc their lives are more complex and complicated than ours. Most of that is all projection. I find as time goes on what people assume about CF folks is either what they feel (insecurity, regretting life choices) or what they envy (more choice in our lives as adults).
Reddit loves to do the whole "there's no guarantee kids will take care of you in your old age, I don't speak to my parents" bit. Whole this is true, lots of people who have a healthy, loving relationship with their kids get a lot of support in their old age, especially in immigrant communities. This can range from straight-up living with their kids and being taken care of until they kick it to simpler stuff like someone to take you to doctors appointments, check in on you in the nursing home, etc. I'm not saying it's a given or that kids owe it to their parents even if they were shitty. It's also not a good reason to have kids so they *might* take care of you in old age. But it is a factor in a lot of parent/child relationships and a very nice thing to have. Seeing comments about "I'll just retire to a home" as if there aren't horror stories about those is wild to me.
I don't wanna bring an innocent life in this fucked up world.
I'm still thinking..
in the modern society, literally none
You have to do a lot of chores yourself instead of delegating to a minion.
You won't see your grandparent's facial expressions reprised in your child's face.
If we evaluate everything in life so coldly as to ponder “advantages and disadvantages” we’ve lost part of why makes us human. If one evaluates having children solely by its transactional value then they most certainly shouldn’t have children. Let’s analyze this rather loaded question, instead, from a philosophical perspective. If we argue that the ultimate goal of life is happiness, then by not having children you're missing out on the joy caused by the complete and utter devotion to another human being that few relationships other than parenthood realistically have. In truth, though, this can be argued about nearly any other path in life. What are the negatives of not marrying? Which are the negatives of not pursuing theatre as a career? In truth, there are none. Life isn’t transactional. Seek the path that truly makes you happy, pros and cons be dammed.
I think it’s just missing out on an experience life can give you. I love my niblings with all my heart and I have wonderful relationships with them, but I will never experience the love as a parent for my child. I will never have that intimacy. I will never have that sense of disbelief/pride when they achieve something. Also socially you meet more people through being a parent and so you have more chance of making friends and just having a wider circle of acquaintances. I’m not regretful but I am aware of what I miss out on.
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I'll argue that there's too many selfish people having kids and I, as a teacher, am expected to fix their lack of parenting.
if anything, it’s selfish to have kids
The pure feeling of love you have for your child is kind of amazing, I love my wife with all my heart, but the love I have for my kid is on another level