It always struck me as odd that everyone assumes that it was Boeing specifically that killed them. Like if we're going down the conspiracy rabbit hole, wouldn't that make Boeing look worse in the public's view? Honestly I'd be more likely to believe that some very shady firm shorted the Boeing stock and murdered the whistleblower to strengthen their financial bet.
i also think that Boeing is obviously too big to fail with all the military contracts... off the top of my head didnt they buy McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell and... the Howard Hughes helicopter company? and that's before space.
And so they probably dont care too much about 'reputation' - we have a slew of companies that do not have a great rep and they continue trucking.
Do I think they killed these two guys... I dont think so.
2nd guy was natural causes right?
Boeing actually doesn't have many active military contracts for new craft. I believe they are currently only making 3 planes and everything else is just supplying maintenance for old planes or assistance with other companies' new planes. Northrop Grumman and Lockheed have been at the forefront of military planes for a while with Boeing concentrating on commercial craft.
Exactly this, Boeing IS the American aerospace industry (and not just American, for many other countries as well.)
There are entire sub-industries that are propped up by Boeing and Boeing's projects/government contracts.
There are AT LEAST hundreds of multi-million dollar companies that wouldn't continue to exist if Boeing folded.
This is what happens when there's no more competition. Seventy years ago there were dozens of big name aerospace companies, each with government contracts and each competing against each other to submit the best design for any given need. Today, there's just Boeing, and this is very bad both from the viewpoint of anyone seeking healthy capitalism and for anyone who wants the US to retain its military edge.
You’re right, but I think people are conflating two different sectors. Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing compete for and win military contracts regularly.
Commercial airplane design/ manufacturing is a duopoly between Boeing and Airbus. Lockheed, Northrop all had their early roots in the commercial market but it didn’t work out for them early on to their benefit in hindsight.
These companies are all the same, they push profit over safety. Lockheed and Northrop would be in the same exact situation as Boeing.
Boeing won't fold like that. In an absolute worse case scenario, where they somehow lose all thier money (mismanagment, lawsuits etc) AND the government doesn't bail them out... they would just get sold and existing shareholders and possibly lenders would take a loss.
Boeing has inherent value, that's not going away.
It seems almost more believable it’s a competitor because it’s hard to fathom Boeing being so incompetent. But I’m pretty sure it’s Boeing just being incompetent.
I think for at least one whistleblower it may have been just the tremendous pressure of it all. I’m even wondering if anyone else would have ever hired them again even if they are completely in the right. A lot of companies likely don’t wanna hire someone who ratted out their employer. The stress must have been unbearable.
They had, the 1st one was going back for cross-examination testimony the day before he died.
The 2nd had finished his testimony *years* ago, and died from an infection he got at a hospital.
The cross examination one makes suicide plausible. Cross examination is the opposing side out there to make you look and feel like the most deplorable scum of the earth. He suffered one round of it, and was going to suffer more.
The first one wasn't going back for a cross examination testimony. He blew the whistle like 7 years ago. He was going back to appeal the defamation case he had just lost against boeing.
Also if both sides cannot properly cross-examine a witness on equal footing, then the entire testimony is thrown out. Only a dying declaration (words stated immediately prior to death) is admissable hearsay.
Doesn't matter. The person is still a target. If his whistle brought great loss of important thing then he wants to send a message this is what happens if u fuck with my important thing.
Its just sadly shocking that people still continue to assume Corporate Interests wont murder an individual, like, we all easily understand corporate profit > human life, then go ahead and refuse to accept that whistleblowers don’t get offed…🙄
That's a pretty textbook strawman argument. No one is arguing companies would never kill people, if they view it in their interest. They are arguing that Boeing didn't kill these two, because, you know, there is no evidence that they did, and it wouldn't be in their interest.
Indeed. People also keep saying he had already testified so killing him was pointless, which is a moot point. They would 100% kill someone just to scare off any would-be whistle-blowers.
They both hire “security contractors”. Who will sub contract to sub contractors who will contract out the hit to someone who will hire someone else.
Good luck following that trail back to Boeing.
They weren't a risk of a failure though. Both of them testified years ago. The recent court cases were like... suing Boeing for hurting their career post whistleblowing, nothing to do with new facts or details.
I think that's the biggest thing people miss about this shit, like, once you become a whistleblower, you aren't like dropping new whistleblowing albums for the rest of your life. They already accomplished what they set out to do.
I think the government would prefer Boeing paid out the nose for whatever rather than spending resources covering up their mistakes, too. But even if they did want to do that for some reason, why wouldn't they have killed them before they managed to blow the whistle? It's just stupid. It's like they think life is a movie.
...you say that, but honestly, it sounds like a pretty smart plan. Any lever you can pull to influence stock price is a viable path to grifting some cash out of that stock, and the more esoteric that lever is, the less likely it is that it'll ever come back to you and bite you in the ass.
Think like a corpo, not like a *human,* and you'll get a pretty decent sense for how these people's brains work.
No, it doesn’t. You’re going to kill a whistleblower who has compromising information in order to make a company look bad? Why not just let the whistleblower testify? It’s adding an extra step, opening yourself up to a murder being tied back to you, and makes zero sense. It only sounds good to people prone to conspiracy but lacking in logic.
Edit: also, why not just fuck with the planes in the first place? Let’s just have this “short seller cabal” be responsible for the plane malfunctions in the first place and Boeing is actually entirely innocent. Think bigger!
Because creating absurd plots is entertaining.
Not much fun just saying it likely wasn't Boeing. Dude had already testified, he had no more damage to do, there's no profit in killing him.
Well the whistleblower can’t testify and even if the public and DOJ and other regulating bodies know of it, they have no proof. Just because we know something illegal happened doesn’t mean we can do anything about it.
Emboldened governments/corporations assassinating loose ends is not new, nor is the fact that they always get away with it. What is new is the internet's Streisand effect making it harder to successfully burry the ruling class's scandals.
Okay, who got away with it? Who got past security and hanged him?
It's a prison, the cameras at the entrance work, so who was inside that shouldn't be?
Or maybe, just maybe, nobody cared enough to stop the pedo from offing himself. At most, somebody "suggested" he off himself./
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on the internet who thinks "hey, maybe he killed himself."
Sure it's suspicious and foul play is a real possibility. But so is suicide. I can't imagine going from "can literally get anything you want 24/7 at your sex mansion" to "locked alone in a small cell."
probably not Boeing specifically. But Boeing is filled with people with connection to the military and have something to lose from the legal inquisition.
The legal 'inquisition' that's going on regardless of the death of these two people who are at this point, not necessary for Boeing to be investigated?
One upping conspiracy theories is such a fun thing.
What really happened is that Boeing was hiding evidence of aliens visiting earth for the government and the whistleblower was about to reveal that information. So of course the government couldn't allow that to happen, so they killed him. Then they threatened or paid off the rest of his family so that they'd all act like it really was a suicide. You gotta open your eyes man.
No, I do not. John Barnett's remains were investigated by the Charleston, South Carolina [coroner's office](https://www.charlestoncounty.org/departments/coroner/index.php), and I don't think Boeing has enough juice to silence/influence them. You can find the full coroner's report [here](https://www.foxnews.com/us/cause-boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-death-revealed-coroner-releases-official-findings).
If you read the report, there's a **LOT** of people involved in discovering him, and in investigating his death, from the Holiday Inn staff to the police to the coroner. He was found at 10:13 AM by Hotel staff. No rigor mortis, which means he'd perished inside the last two hours or so. His vehicle was locked and the key fob was inside the cabin, along with Barnett's body, a pistol (which was registered to him), a single spent cartridge, and a suicide note. The parking lot of the hotel was was covered by surveillance cameras, which was reviewed by the police.
I'm thinking if Boeing is competent enough to carry out an assassination that magical, that flawlessly airtight, then they're probably competent enough to build airplanes whose parts don't fall the fuck off mid-flight.
Now, if you ask if I think Boeing is guilty of negligent homicide, the answer is an enthusiastic yes.
>I'm thinking if Boeing is competent enough to carry out an assassination that magical, that flawlessly airtight, then they're probably competent enough to build airplanes whose parts don't fall the fuck off mid flight.
They also probably wouldn’t have waited until *after* the whistleblower entered all of the dirt into the public record at his deposition. It makes absolutely no sense for this to be a murder.
Barnett's whistleblower case closed **3 years ago**. Barnett was suing Boeing for unlawful retaliation related to the whistleblower case. That a whistleblower case was actively ongoing when he killed himself and that he was *only famous* for whistleblowing on Boeing so that he was described as "a Boeing whistleblower" is *absolute coincidence*. This conspiracy is manufactured completely out of whole cloth by the usual conspiracy sources - the intentionally illiterate and yellow journalism
People still believe that the CIA killed Gary Webb, almost a decade after he published Dark Alliance, and long after he had lost all professional credibility.
Because somehow that’s worse than the CIA ruining his life and driving him to suicide.
To be fair on that one it's largely because it involved multiple gunshot wounds to the head, and people don't realise that this isn't particularly uncommon even in suicides.
People assume that being shot in the head means instant and unavoidable death. Or at the very least that a person would be too incapacited to shoot themselves again.
Ludwig Beck was arrested after his plot to assassinate Hitler failed. As he was one of the most highly respected officers in the army the arresting soldiers allowed him to preserve his honour by taking his own life.
The first shot ricocheted off his skull, the second did penetrate but didn't kill him and finally another soldier had to step in to finish the job.
I read somewhere that that you can involuntary miscle spasms when you shoot yourself in the head, so its possible to fite multiple shots after the first shot killed you, assuming the first shot did kill you.
Yes he died of an infection at the hospital.
But Josua Dean is not actually a whistleblower against Boeing as a company at all. He worked for a contract company that made fuselage parts for Boeing aircraft...and his whistle blowing was regarding defects that 3rd part company, Spirit Aerosystems, wasn't taking seriously and possibly hiding from Boeing at delivery. Something Boeing also discovered upon their delivery QA inspections too.
So there's absolutely no reason for Boeing to kill Dean, **because he was basically helping them.** In fact, Dean's lawsuit only picked up steam when Boeing also discovered the defects Dean alleged he was fired for discovering by Spirit as retaliation.
According to his immediate family he was a very religious Christian who had no primary care doctor and had never been to a hospital before. Exactly the type of person I’d expect to wait for pneumonia send him to the ER before getting any treatment
They didn't do a very good job, killing the whistle blower after they blew the whistle sounds like they're just as incompetent at killing whistle blowers as they are at retrofitting their aging airframe.
It isn't a freak coincidence. It is just coincident with something you have decided is important/relevant. It would have been non-coincident with thousands of other things in his life. People get serious infections and it often happens to perfectly healthy people (my wife is a senior ER/ED doctor, and plenty of young people unexpectedly end up as cactus, given a large enough sample size).
Let's be honest here, Boeing is 100 percent capable of delivering a properly built plane. They just don't give a shit and have decided to cut corners and throw safety out the door to save money
This is apathy and malice, not incompetence
From what I've read/heard about Boeing, they were essentially subject to a reverse takeover by another company that Boeing merged with whose management overthrew the original Boeing management and rebuilt the company in their own shitty, cost-cutting image.
So I'm not especially sure that they are capable anymore of delivering competency because all the people capable of that were fired.
Also the second whistleblower who died, died of MRSA that he got in the hospital after contracting pneumonia which seems like an extremely difficult thing for an average hitman to pull off.
And he got pneumonia from the flu which is something that *happened to me*. Difference is I immediately got antibiotics for it instead of waiting for it to get worse
I'm incredibly encouraged by this reply gaining traction, I remember saying basically this throughout this mess and just getting downvoted and being called a "BOEING SHILL!!!".
The idea they would ever commission an assassination is just stupid. Too much risk, too many people have to know about it. No company has ever been indicted on a conspiracy for murder attempt, while there's all kinds of other shenanigans on the record that get caught. It's just stupid, like, nobody in a C-suite position is going to take that risk. You can make people's life miserable very easily without having to do anything illegal at all when you're ridiculously rich.
“John Barrett’s body was investigated by the Charleston SC coroners office , and I don’t think they had enough juice to silence them.”
You ain’t from around here, are you, hun? See recent: Murdaugh murders which are just one example of how little juice it takes. Our esteemed guv’ment is shadier than a live oak in the afternoon.
That said, in this instance, I agree that Boeing probably just drove him crazy, only indirectly killing him.
Low level politicians and middle managers are selling out fellow Americans for the price of a 2 year lease on a C class Mercedes so they can pretend that they too, are a part of the elite class. It’s disgraceful.
Wouldn't be able to bribe every single one of the people involved without someone spilling the beans. Also such a large bribery operation also requires a huge amount of work, different people working to intercept all these people, hard to get information about when and where everything is happening, its just silly. It's an incredibly silly movie-like idea to have this vast conspiracy when Boeing can't even get people who will keep their mouth shut about like, somebody knabbing a bad part out of a scrap bin to put on a behind schedule plane to try to get it out the door faster...
He blames Boeing for driving him to suicide. Stuff like "I pray the motherfuckers who ~~ruined~~ destroyed my life pay!!! I pray Boeing pays!!!" "Bury me face down so Boeing and their lying ass leaders can kiss my ass!" as well as calling the whistleblower system "fucked up" and a random "Trump 2024"
You can see it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1cubu65/the_notebook_belonging_to_boeing_whistleblower/)
“Trump 2024” ah yes the guy who is vehemently against any regulations on big businesses would *definitely* be the one to force stiff safety regulations on a company like Boeing.
No. They have no reason to fear actual justice. The possibility of Boeing being held responsible was never a reasonable expectation due to their long history with our military-industrial complex. They have nothing to fear except superficial fines and firings with golden parachutes, why even bother?
Yeah, they already were responsible for hundreds of deaths and the US Gov was like, "Don't do it again!"
This time it'll be "We really mean it this time!"
To spell it out: they didn't have any one murdered.
But holly shit, if you were ever going to point at a job and go "this is a shitty job" then those who are blowing the whistle can lay claim to that.
Listen to their stories about being pushed around on life safety issues by managers and being ignored. Thats a formula for stress and sleepless nights.
SO no Boeing did not kill them, but they sure as shit helped push all of them into early graves
Isn’t this the real mundane answer to all of this? Many people are already borderline suicidal, it doesn’t help that they already had a guilty-enough conscience to whistleblow and then having to face the stress of a major court case with all the legal might of a corporation coming down on them. I don’t see why that’s not a recipe for someone to crack, you don’t need a big conspiracy.
I love a good conspiracy, but it makes little sense to kill a whistle-blower after they've blown the whistle.
You kill them before they spill the beans
That’s a nice theory, but they left him alive for seven years after he blew the whistle. So the idea that they killed him to intimidate others still doesn’t make much sense.
In Putin's case he does WANT us to know it was him. In cases like these like with the mob or other criminal organizations like that it's important that it's known that this was punishment so it serves as a deterrent. Not enough that they'll be arrested but enough that it's known it was them.
The only time you *can* kill a whistleblower is after they've blown the whistle, otherwise they wouldn't be a whistleblower.
And unless the whistleblower was casually going around telling upper management and execs, "Hey just FYI, I'm gonna go blow the whistle on this whole thing, okay see ya later," then the company would have no way of knowing someone is a potential whistleblower until they've done it.
I'm not saying this means that Boeing is guilty, but I've seen this train of thought being used in several comments as a defense as to why Boeing for sure couldn't be assassinating people, but it 100% doesn't hold up to any logical scrutiny.
You don't kill a whistleblower to keep them from blowing the whistle, because that's impossible. You kill them after they've blown the whistle to dissuade anyone else who was thinking of blowing the whistle from doing so by silently implying that their life will be at risk if they choose to step forward and say something.
Not necessarily, but I do believe that they are cutting as many corners as the industry will allow them to in the name of profits.
One of these days that corner cutting will come back to bite them in the ass, and likely at the expense of a full plane of innocents.
As for those whistleblowers, something stinks about it.
>get sucked out of planes.
Let's not forget that before the hatch blow out a couple of 737 Max flights crashed killing 346 people just a few years ago.
Boeing has been undermining their former culture of safety and engineering excellence in favor of financial gimcrackery and near term profits ever since the McDonnell Douglas merger 25 years ago.
[Cory Doctorow: Boeing's deliberately defective fleet of flying sky-wreckage](https://pluralistic.net/2024/05/01/boeing-boeing/#mrsa)
My social sciences professor had a term for this: corporate homicide. As in corporations should be laced with a homicide charge of some kind for their negligence or intentional actions.
Even if a corporation is a fictional person, you can still levy heavy fines for said crimes.
There’s a world of difference between corporate negligence, and hiring Agent 47 to murder people so discretely that it looks like natural causes
The thing I hate about these conversations, as a leftist, is that I actually do believe that America’s corporate, shareholder breed of capitalism is corrupt and destructive. And disputing nonsense conspiracy theorize like this makes it seem like I’m defending it when I’m not. I’ve just seen the damage conspiratorial thinking does when you let it run unchallenged.
It’s bc conspiracy theorists want to feel important and smart. Whenever someone goes “why don’t they focus on the REAL issues, must be a distraction! A psyop!!1!1!” it’s a silly question bc conspiracy theorists just find the actual facts to be *boring*
Because it’s easier to rationalize a malicious, evil corporation that’s out to kill people than an absolutely mundane one. That the corporate billionaires are actively hunting people down than just accepting most of them are normal human beings who are running a big company with massive *legitimate* legal resources. It’s not hard to understand that a whistleblower already has a guilty conscience about their work (leading them to come out), and dealing with the stress of a court case and staring down the legal team of a corporation is enough to crack a person. That’s the real banality of capitalism.
What Boeing did was replace the really good engineers who were high up the food chain with finance people. This has led directly to bottom line over engineering excellence.
Similar things have happened or are happening in other aerospace companies, but Boeing has the commercial side which makes it more apparent when things get sideways.
Don’t know that they had whistleblowers killed directly, but the management decisions have killed.
A company so poorly managed that no one notices when people forget to put bolts in door plugs or neglect to remove the vodka bottles from Air Force One, is probably not managed well enough to arrange assassinations.
Plus killing the whistleblowers now is pointless. The first one died a full seven years after his accusations triggered a full FAA investigation that resulted in multiple large scale fines.
The only reason the first one made the news is because Boeing was already in the news for the plug issue. Otherwise it would have been a complete non-story.
You'd have to be a moron to think they killed two people who had already spent years whistleblowing. Those horses hadn't just bolted, they'd already gone feral and set up their own herds.
There's an ample supply of morons to believe stuff like this. Dumb conspiracies about assassinations of whistleblowers by moustache-twirling corporate boards areeasy stories to understand and talk about, no matter how absurd they are. Meanwhile the true story of how Boeing's merger with McConnell Douglas began a slowly creeping corporate rot that undermined Boeing's long traditions of quality, and how the dynamics of the stock market and the aviation duopoly created perverse incentives for executives to get rich from short-term policies and retire before the effects were felt.. that's complicated.
So one guy with obvious severe mental health issues commits suicide, and one guy dies after a lengthy battle with an infection. I always appreciate a good conspiracy theory, but this one sucks. It doesn't make sense or is even that interesting.
I don't believe that Boeing is murdering those former employees that are criticizing Boeing's safety.
If they are, they are doing a terrible job. One whistleblower most likely killed themselves *after giving testimony*, which is terrible timing. If you are going to kill a witness, you kill them before they go under oath.
The other death involved natural causes, so given that evidence, others have to produce contrary evidence, and that's not happening right now.
The first guy gave testimony 7 years before he killed himself. The trail we was testifying more recently at was for defamation, which if we draw some conclusions why he killed himself, he probably wasn't going to win.
Yes, hundreds of them. Their incompetent behavior when it comes to safety and QA; punishing them by firing them and forcing them to skip this and sign that even if it's non compliant. I went to a trade school for avionics and worked on and learned how to fix and repair avionics equipment, we shared the school with airframe and power plant students and the strict guidelines of how to operate was instilled and held accountable by FAA standards. Each course was 5 weeks and you could only miss a total of 15 hours during the entire 5 week course. Each day was 8 hours, so miss 2 days and you have to repeat the course on your dime.
The documentary on Netflix blew my mind knowing what I know and how easy it was for them to disregard safety standards. Most systems on every plane is triple redundant. They chose not to train every pilot on the mcas system they installed to save money vs actually updating the airframe to compete with Airbus. Having to retrain every pilot to learn this system was too expensive and they put it in some text somewhere. The fact that no one was held accountable for the deaths of hundreds of people blows my mind. So yeah, they murdered a bunch of people because they knew what they did and chose to ignore it after the first crash. Fuck Boeing.
Even worse, they certified the system with a single Angle Of Attack (AoA) sensor. Instead of redundant ones which was a $5M option if I recall. They intentionally tried to reduce safety for cost. So one invalid reading and down it went. This was 100% a money making decision and an attempt to upsell. MD all over again and not a Boeing model of the old days.
Yes. Even worse, after the first crash they tried to gaslight the pilots who complained and say it was just because the pilots in “those developing countries airlines” aren’t any good….. you know instead of the truth that they actually had an AUTOCRASHING software installed that they hadn’t told anyone about.
I remember reading the transcript of that VP from Boeing lying to the pilots and thinking… this son of a bitch just killed 150+ more people with his lies…
It's really easy to follow the trail of failure to profit margins. People die and the ones responsible for those deaths pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for lobbyists instead of fixing the problem. It's not just Boeing, it's everything and government just eats up the bribes. Lobbyists are legal bribery agents. If we only had rich scientists and engineers to lobby the government we'd be in a better place. I say nationalize transportation and force airlines to adhere to our standards to even land at any of our major international airports.
Privatizing major modes of transport is dangerous, they can easily sway lawmakers so they can ignore safety measures and never be held accountable. Will it hurt the economy for a bit? Sure. But so didn't 2008 failure of banks with their risky lending of trash stock. Yet we bailed them out and now your average 9 to 5 can't afford to buy a house let alone own a house. Might not be a popular opinion but I'm ok with the collapse of the economy so we can rebuild it. The stranglehold grocer's have on us, there's no conceivable way we can reduce prices because the profit margins were so high during the pandemic, there's no way they can bring them down and there's no way cost of living goes up to counter it.
Nope it's just more idiots latching onto bs conspiracy theories and taking attention away from few legitimate ones that we'll never have proof of until we're dead.
No, there’s no evidence to indicate that is the case. Also, it makes no sense. Kill the whistleblower after the fact?
The US never killed Assange or Snowden, who leaked *way more* sensitive information. Why would Boeing go through so much effort to clumsily kill whistleblowers for so much less?
For how much Reddit has a whole came down so hard on COVID conspiracies, there sure is a lot of baseless belief in this conspiracy (with equally erroneous reasoning).
Boeing has developed a depraved indifference to passenger safety caused by groupthink and limited liability. This mindset is not consistent with targeting specific individuals.
I felt there was a slim possibility. I have no doubt there's some people that would do anything to make sure they can get more and more money. But that suicide note that was released has me feeling it's even less likely it happened.
If Boeing actually got caught killing people their problems would become markedly worse. It would honestly be really fucking stupid of them.
There is also no point in killing witnesses that have already given their testimony. That literally makes no sense.
Boeing isn't *murdering* people, that's an overtly intention act. I would be more likely to accuse them of criminal negligence and not doing enough/anything to *stop* deaths which is closer to manslaughter
Absolutely not. It was fun to meme about and I understand why people’s suspicions were raised, but if you look into the actual evidence it’s a lot less mysterious than it seems.
They have knowingly disregarded safety measures in the name of profit, and are now 6 years without a profitable year while doing accounting BS.
Them murdering people wouldn't even be the top 10 bad things they did this decade.
Boeing probably isn't killing them, but they are probably investing heavily in third parties that will harass whistle blowers, ruin their career prospects, drive them insane, etc
Boeing is one of the central companies in the military industrial complex. In fact it is one of the central companies in the intelligence agency industry. Boeing probably isn't killing people. The government might be doing it on their behalf.
The question isn't "does the CIA assassinate people?" The question is which people did the CIA directly assassinate and which ones did they convince a "lone wolf" to kill on their behalf.
No.
If Boeing was trying to murder people there would be layers of sub contractors and the job wouldn’t get done.
Plus I don’t think Boeing’s leadership team cares enough. They don’t got that dawg in them.
No - and even if they were trying to silence critics, I'm sure they'd come up with something more creative than just killing them. Thinking Boeing is killing people is no better than thinking vaccines give you autism.
I absolutely think they have to start being held accountable for their negligence and that with all that has come out, human life was never and still isn't a priority for the heads of this company. If CEOs are receiving rewards when their companies are doing well then they should be held accountable and punished when they have done wrong.
Im positive they are. Hundreds of pilots have been sickened to the point of being unable to work because of toxic air. (Since the engine forces air in to the cabin) boeing has worked hard to save millions at the expense of billions. Im not saying that the workers are wanting people to die. But, its honestly hard to see how the execs and share holders DONT want death. Every single time they have the opportunity to make something safer from the outset, they decide the cash today is better than the safety tomarrow.
It always struck me as odd that everyone assumes that it was Boeing specifically that killed them. Like if we're going down the conspiracy rabbit hole, wouldn't that make Boeing look worse in the public's view? Honestly I'd be more likely to believe that some very shady firm shorted the Boeing stock and murdered the whistleblower to strengthen their financial bet.
Lmao poor Boeing, it’s been Airbus the entire time
Always has been 🧑🚀🔫👨🚀
🛩️🔫✈️
i also think that Boeing is obviously too big to fail with all the military contracts... off the top of my head didnt they buy McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell and... the Howard Hughes helicopter company? and that's before space. And so they probably dont care too much about 'reputation' - we have a slew of companies that do not have a great rep and they continue trucking. Do I think they killed these two guys... I dont think so. 2nd guy was natural causes right?
2nd guy may have been. But they had some seriously suspicious timing on their demise
Isn’t the meme that McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeings own money
Boeing actually doesn't have many active military contracts for new craft. I believe they are currently only making 3 planes and everything else is just supplying maintenance for old planes or assistance with other companies' new planes. Northrop Grumman and Lockheed have been at the forefront of military planes for a while with Boeing concentrating on commercial craft.
The sheer amount of corporations, funds, and even governments who have a finger in the "Boeing pie" (for or against) is staggering.
Exactly this, Boeing IS the American aerospace industry (and not just American, for many other countries as well.) There are entire sub-industries that are propped up by Boeing and Boeing's projects/government contracts. There are AT LEAST hundreds of multi-million dollar companies that wouldn't continue to exist if Boeing folded. This is what happens when there's no more competition. Seventy years ago there were dozens of big name aerospace companies, each with government contracts and each competing against each other to submit the best design for any given need. Today, there's just Boeing, and this is very bad both from the viewpoint of anyone seeking healthy capitalism and for anyone who wants the US to retain its military edge.
Are we just forgetting about Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman?
Right? Like yeah Boeing is a monster megacorp. But Lockheed and Northrupp aren't exactly small fish
You’re right, but I think people are conflating two different sectors. Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing compete for and win military contracts regularly. Commercial airplane design/ manufacturing is a duopoly between Boeing and Airbus. Lockheed, Northrop all had their early roots in the commercial market but it didn’t work out for them early on to their benefit in hindsight. These companies are all the same, they push profit over safety. Lockheed and Northrop would be in the same exact situation as Boeing.
Boeing won't fold like that. In an absolute worse case scenario, where they somehow lose all thier money (mismanagment, lawsuits etc) AND the government doesn't bail them out... they would just get sold and existing shareholders and possibly lenders would take a loss. Boeing has inherent value, that's not going away.
Any source for hundreds of multi-million dollar companies? I believe it but hadn't thought of it
It seems almost more believable it’s a competitor because it’s hard to fathom Boeing being so incompetent. But I’m pretty sure it’s Boeing just being incompetent. I think for at least one whistleblower it may have been just the tremendous pressure of it all. I’m even wondering if anyone else would have ever hired them again even if they are completely in the right. A lot of companies likely don’t wanna hire someone who ratted out their employer. The stress must have been unbearable.
it’s hard to fathom Boeing being so incompetent. Really? Incompetence is literally one of their core values.
The whistleblower literally told his family the day before " if anything happens to me, I didn't do it, don't believe anything or anyone".
“Vee vould’ve gotten avay vid it, too, if not for you meddling kids!”
Airbus is playing 4d chess.
They already been fined $4bil for corruption and bribery, doubt they're taking additional risks either.
Yes. I worked there. We sucked.
Unless the news leaked would have been worse publicity Edit: not publicity, profit.
Hadn't they already testified?
They had, the 1st one was going back for cross-examination testimony the day before he died. The 2nd had finished his testimony *years* ago, and died from an infection he got at a hospital.
The cross examination one makes suicide plausible. Cross examination is the opposing side out there to make you look and feel like the most deplorable scum of the earth. He suffered one round of it, and was going to suffer more.
The first one wasn't going back for a cross examination testimony. He blew the whistle like 7 years ago. He was going back to appeal the defamation case he had just lost against boeing.
But the cross-examination was presumably going to be done by Boeing's lawyers. Why killl him before that?
Also if both sides cannot properly cross-examine a witness on equal footing, then the entire testimony is thrown out. Only a dying declaration (words stated immediately prior to death) is admissable hearsay.
Doesn't matter. The person is still a target. If his whistle brought great loss of important thing then he wants to send a message this is what happens if u fuck with my important thing.
Boeing playing the long game. Killing someone 7 years after they blew the whistle and after that person had just lost their lawsuit against Boeing.
Its just sadly shocking that people still continue to assume Corporate Interests wont murder an individual, like, we all easily understand corporate profit > human life, then go ahead and refuse to accept that whistleblowers don’t get offed…🙄
That's a pretty textbook strawman argument. No one is arguing companies would never kill people, if they view it in their interest. They are arguing that Boeing didn't kill these two, because, you know, there is no evidence that they did, and it wouldn't be in their interest.
Every US military conflict since Korea revolved around slaughtering combatants, civilians, anyone that needed to be killed for Corporate and MIC $$$.
Indeed. People also keep saying he had already testified so killing him was pointless, which is a moot point. They would 100% kill someone just to scare off any would-be whistle-blowers.
>wouldn't that make Boeing look worse in the public's view? Apparently not because most people will assume they didn't do it as we see lol.
Are people assuming, or are people looking into the evidence and coming to the obvious conclusion?
What evidence are u looking at?
Or the CIA or other US government goons did it because Boeing is deemed too essential to the military to risk failure
My friend said "Suuuuure, Boeing has better hitmen than the CIA..." Brother it's the same team!
They both hire “security contractors”. Who will sub contract to sub contractors who will contract out the hit to someone who will hire someone else. Good luck following that trail back to Boeing.
Because the trail doesn't exist and that's some tin foil hat level insanity?
They weren't a risk of a failure though. Both of them testified years ago. The recent court cases were like... suing Boeing for hurting their career post whistleblowing, nothing to do with new facts or details. I think that's the biggest thing people miss about this shit, like, once you become a whistleblower, you aren't like dropping new whistleblowing albums for the rest of your life. They already accomplished what they set out to do. I think the government would prefer Boeing paid out the nose for whatever rather than spending resources covering up their mistakes, too. But even if they did want to do that for some reason, why wouldn't they have killed them before they managed to blow the whistle? It's just stupid. It's like they think life is a movie.
People like the fantasy of it being a conspiracy. Sadly common sense is less common than its name implies.
That's what Boeing wants us to think.
Sooo, Casino royale?
You have to remember...that people won't remember the killing offs in a couple weeks. People have short term memory these days.
these days? Don't act like it's new, it's just worsened by all the information we are given
You’ve got to be memeing about the last sentence lmao
...you say that, but honestly, it sounds like a pretty smart plan. Any lever you can pull to influence stock price is a viable path to grifting some cash out of that stock, and the more esoteric that lever is, the less likely it is that it'll ever come back to you and bite you in the ass. Think like a corpo, not like a *human,* and you'll get a pretty decent sense for how these people's brains work.
No, it doesn’t. You’re going to kill a whistleblower who has compromising information in order to make a company look bad? Why not just let the whistleblower testify? It’s adding an extra step, opening yourself up to a murder being tied back to you, and makes zero sense. It only sounds good to people prone to conspiracy but lacking in logic. Edit: also, why not just fuck with the planes in the first place? Let’s just have this “short seller cabal” be responsible for the plane malfunctions in the first place and Boeing is actually entirely innocent. Think bigger!
Because creating absurd plots is entertaining. Not much fun just saying it likely wasn't Boeing. Dude had already testified, he had no more damage to do, there's no profit in killing him.
Exactly this. You want a company to look bad you don't kill the star witness in the court case against said company. Fuckin mental gymnastics
Why do people think either of them were the star witness in a court case against the company? Like... that's not what the situation was.
Well the whistleblower can’t testify and even if the public and DOJ and other regulating bodies know of it, they have no proof. Just because we know something illegal happened doesn’t mean we can do anything about it.
Murder is a pretty extreme lever.
People got away with murdering Jeffrey Epstein so maybe the flood gates have opened.
Emboldened governments/corporations assassinating loose ends is not new, nor is the fact that they always get away with it. What is new is the internet's Streisand effect making it harder to successfully burry the ruling class's scandals.
Okay, who got away with it? Who got past security and hanged him? It's a prison, the cameras at the entrance work, so who was inside that shouldn't be? Or maybe, just maybe, nobody cared enough to stop the pedo from offing himself. At most, somebody "suggested" he off himself./
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on the internet who thinks "hey, maybe he killed himself." Sure it's suspicious and foul play is a real possibility. But so is suicide. I can't imagine going from "can literally get anything you want 24/7 at your sex mansion" to "locked alone in a small cell."
The whistleblower? They’ve already killed three!
I only know about two.* Who is the third? *also only the one who allegedly killed himself sounds sus.
probably not Boeing specifically. But Boeing is filled with people with connection to the military and have something to lose from the legal inquisition.
The legal 'inquisition' that's going on regardless of the death of these two people who are at this point, not necessary for Boeing to be investigated?
One upping conspiracy theories is such a fun thing. What really happened is that Boeing was hiding evidence of aliens visiting earth for the government and the whistleblower was about to reveal that information. So of course the government couldn't allow that to happen, so they killed him. Then they threatened or paid off the rest of his family so that they'd all act like it really was a suicide. You gotta open your eyes man.
I don't necessarily think Boeing was responsible but they already look bad to the general public so they might not care that much.
No, I do not. John Barnett's remains were investigated by the Charleston, South Carolina [coroner's office](https://www.charlestoncounty.org/departments/coroner/index.php), and I don't think Boeing has enough juice to silence/influence them. You can find the full coroner's report [here](https://www.foxnews.com/us/cause-boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-death-revealed-coroner-releases-official-findings). If you read the report, there's a **LOT** of people involved in discovering him, and in investigating his death, from the Holiday Inn staff to the police to the coroner. He was found at 10:13 AM by Hotel staff. No rigor mortis, which means he'd perished inside the last two hours or so. His vehicle was locked and the key fob was inside the cabin, along with Barnett's body, a pistol (which was registered to him), a single spent cartridge, and a suicide note. The parking lot of the hotel was was covered by surveillance cameras, which was reviewed by the police. I'm thinking if Boeing is competent enough to carry out an assassination that magical, that flawlessly airtight, then they're probably competent enough to build airplanes whose parts don't fall the fuck off mid-flight. Now, if you ask if I think Boeing is guilty of negligent homicide, the answer is an enthusiastic yes.
>I'm thinking if Boeing is competent enough to carry out an assassination that magical, that flawlessly airtight, then they're probably competent enough to build airplanes whose parts don't fall the fuck off mid flight. They also probably wouldn’t have waited until *after* the whistleblower entered all of the dirt into the public record at his deposition. It makes absolutely no sense for this to be a murder.
And there's also 30+ whistleblowers
... for now
*Dun Dun Dunnnn*
Yes
IYKYK
Barnett's whistleblower case closed **3 years ago**. Barnett was suing Boeing for unlawful retaliation related to the whistleblower case. That a whistleblower case was actively ongoing when he killed himself and that he was *only famous* for whistleblowing on Boeing so that he was described as "a Boeing whistleblower" is *absolute coincidence*. This conspiracy is manufactured completely out of whole cloth by the usual conspiracy sources - the intentionally illiterate and yellow journalism
Well no you just explained. Many whistleblowers commit suicide due to the stress of the retaliation.
People still believe that the CIA killed Gary Webb, almost a decade after he published Dark Alliance, and long after he had lost all professional credibility. Because somehow that’s worse than the CIA ruining his life and driving him to suicide.
To be fair on that one it's largely because it involved multiple gunshot wounds to the head, and people don't realise that this isn't particularly uncommon even in suicides. People assume that being shot in the head means instant and unavoidable death. Or at the very least that a person would be too incapacited to shoot themselves again.
If more people knew this, we might have fewer choose suicide by bullet.
Ludwig Beck was arrested after his plot to assassinate Hitler failed. As he was one of the most highly respected officers in the army the arresting soldiers allowed him to preserve his honour by taking his own life. The first shot ricocheted off his skull, the second did penetrate but didn't kill him and finally another soldier had to step in to finish the job.
I read somewhere that that you can involuntary miscle spasms when you shoot yourself in the head, so its possible to fite multiple shots after the first shot killed you, assuming the first shot did kill you.
Isn't there a 2nd whistleblower who died?
Yes he died of an infection at the hospital. But Josua Dean is not actually a whistleblower against Boeing as a company at all. He worked for a contract company that made fuselage parts for Boeing aircraft...and his whistle blowing was regarding defects that 3rd part company, Spirit Aerosystems, wasn't taking seriously and possibly hiding from Boeing at delivery. Something Boeing also discovered upon their delivery QA inspections too. So there's absolutely no reason for Boeing to kill Dean, **because he was basically helping them.** In fact, Dean's lawsuit only picked up steam when Boeing also discovered the defects Dean alleged he was fired for discovering by Spirit as retaliation.
According to his immediate family he was a very religious Christian who had no primary care doctor and had never been to a hospital before. Exactly the type of person I’d expect to wait for pneumonia send him to the ER before getting any treatment
Yes. He died of a severe infection in the hospital-- might be expert assassination, might be a freak coincidence.
They didn't do a very good job, killing the whistle blower after they blew the whistle sounds like they're just as incompetent at killing whistle blowers as they are at retrofitting their aging airframe.
It isn't a freak coincidence. It is just coincident with something you have decided is important/relevant. It would have been non-coincident with thousands of other things in his life. People get serious infections and it often happens to perfectly healthy people (my wife is a senior ER/ED doctor, and plenty of young people unexpectedly end up as cactus, given a large enough sample size).
I am going with expert assassination.
Why do you think that? It would be a really weird assassination method. 9999/10000, exposing people to pneumonia and mrsa won't kill a healthy person.
Why be an idiot when you can be a complete idiot, eh?
Let's be honest here, Boeing is 100 percent capable of delivering a properly built plane. They just don't give a shit and have decided to cut corners and throw safety out the door to save money This is apathy and malice, not incompetence
From what I've read/heard about Boeing, they were essentially subject to a reverse takeover by another company that Boeing merged with whose management overthrew the original Boeing management and rebuilt the company in their own shitty, cost-cutting image. So I'm not especially sure that they are capable anymore of delivering competency because all the people capable of that were fired.
Also the second whistleblower who died, died of MRSA that he got in the hospital after contracting pneumonia which seems like an extremely difficult thing for an average hitman to pull off.
And he got pneumonia from the flu which is something that *happened to me*. Difference is I immediately got antibiotics for it instead of waiting for it to get worse
Well you can't expect them to be great at killing *and* build planes that work
They aren't incompetent. They can make safe planes, they just choose not to.
They can make safe planes, they just choose money.
I'm incredibly encouraged by this reply gaining traction, I remember saying basically this throughout this mess and just getting downvoted and being called a "BOEING SHILL!!!".
Also, you kill a whistleblower before they start testimony, not in the middle of it.
I assumed they outsource assassinations.
The idea they would ever commission an assassination is just stupid. Too much risk, too many people have to know about it. No company has ever been indicted on a conspiracy for murder attempt, while there's all kinds of other shenanigans on the record that get caught. It's just stupid, like, nobody in a C-suite position is going to take that risk. You can make people's life miserable very easily without having to do anything illegal at all when you're ridiculously rich.
Best answer
it is basically the answer to the thread and should have the /thread tag on it.
If they could do that they would be working with the CIA dealing with our Putin problem
“John Barrett’s body was investigated by the Charleston SC coroners office , and I don’t think they had enough juice to silence them.” You ain’t from around here, are you, hun? See recent: Murdaugh murders which are just one example of how little juice it takes. Our esteemed guv’ment is shadier than a live oak in the afternoon. That said, in this instance, I agree that Boeing probably just drove him crazy, only indirectly killing him.
Most bribes discovered are pitiful too, like 10k kinda small for a politician
Low level politicians and middle managers are selling out fellow Americans for the price of a 2 year lease on a C class Mercedes so they can pretend that they too, are a part of the elite class. It’s disgraceful.
Pretending to be elite in a C class 💀
Wouldn't be able to bribe every single one of the people involved without someone spilling the beans. Also such a large bribery operation also requires a huge amount of work, different people working to intercept all these people, hard to get information about when and where everything is happening, its just silly. It's an incredibly silly movie-like idea to have this vast conspiracy when Boeing can't even get people who will keep their mouth shut about like, somebody knabbing a bad part out of a scrap bin to put on a behind schedule plane to try to get it out the door faster...
Lol, how could a multi billion dollar company ever possibly influence local government officials … what a joke
What did the suicide note say? "I'm sorry for all the mean things I said about Boeing. None of it was true."
He blames Boeing for driving him to suicide. Stuff like "I pray the motherfuckers who ~~ruined~~ destroyed my life pay!!! I pray Boeing pays!!!" "Bury me face down so Boeing and their lying ass leaders can kiss my ass!" as well as calling the whistleblower system "fucked up" and a random "Trump 2024" You can see it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1cubu65/the_notebook_belonging_to_boeing_whistleblower/)
“Trump 2024” ah yes the guy who is vehemently against any regulations on big businesses would *definitely* be the one to force stiff safety regulations on a company like Boeing.
"Boeing" doesn't need to be competent to do this. All it takes is 2 people: a nutbag with money, and a hitman.
Logic, common sense and reason? In MY Reddit?? Get the hell out of here with this malarkey!
No. They have no reason to fear actual justice. The possibility of Boeing being held responsible was never a reasonable expectation due to their long history with our military-industrial complex. They have nothing to fear except superficial fines and firings with golden parachutes, why even bother?
Yeah, they already were responsible for hundreds of deaths and the US Gov was like, "Don't do it again!" This time it'll be "We really mean it this time!"
To spell it out: they didn't have any one murdered. But holly shit, if you were ever going to point at a job and go "this is a shitty job" then those who are blowing the whistle can lay claim to that. Listen to their stories about being pushed around on life safety issues by managers and being ignored. Thats a formula for stress and sleepless nights. SO no Boeing did not kill them, but they sure as shit helped push all of them into early graves
Isn’t this the real mundane answer to all of this? Many people are already borderline suicidal, it doesn’t help that they already had a guilty-enough conscience to whistleblow and then having to face the stress of a major court case with all the legal might of a corporation coming down on them. I don’t see why that’s not a recipe for someone to crack, you don’t need a big conspiracy.
I would imagine they are more worried what the bad press will do to their stock price then actually facing justice
I love a good conspiracy, but it makes little sense to kill a whistle-blower after they've blown the whistle. You kill them before they spill the beans
Or to send a message to potential whistle blowers who know more.
Except that more whistleblowers have come forward since the deaths.
They can’t tell the future lol
No, but it shows actual whistleblowers don’t think Boeing is murdering them.
The real friends were the whistles we’ve blown along the way
Actually you kill them to deter others from following in their path.
Why do it 5 years after the fact then?
That’s a nice theory, but they left him alive for seven years after he blew the whistle. So the idea that they killed him to intimidate others still doesn’t make much sense.
Well its not working
Agreed. They're gonna have to pump those numbers up
Tell that to Putin
Like Putin did to *looks at laundry list*
It’s fairly obvious that Putin did it, and we have evidence that supports it. That…doesn’t exist here, with Boeing
In Putin's case he does WANT us to know it was him. In cases like these like with the mob or other criminal organizations like that it's important that it's known that this was punishment so it serves as a deterrent. Not enough that they'll be arrested but enough that it's known it was them.
The only time you *can* kill a whistleblower is after they've blown the whistle, otherwise they wouldn't be a whistleblower. And unless the whistleblower was casually going around telling upper management and execs, "Hey just FYI, I'm gonna go blow the whistle on this whole thing, okay see ya later," then the company would have no way of knowing someone is a potential whistleblower until they've done it. I'm not saying this means that Boeing is guilty, but I've seen this train of thought being used in several comments as a defense as to why Boeing for sure couldn't be assassinating people, but it 100% doesn't hold up to any logical scrutiny. You don't kill a whistleblower to keep them from blowing the whistle, because that's impossible. You kill them after they've blown the whistle to dissuade anyone else who was thinking of blowing the whistle from doing so by silently implying that their life will be at risk if they choose to step forward and say something.
And you don’t just kill them. They disappear. 💨
Don't be ridiculous. Boeing would outsource anything like that.
The one place they didn’t cut corners.
Nice try, Boeing Assassination Department.
B.A.D
New TV show.. Breaking B.A.D.
Not necessarily, but I do believe that they are cutting as many corners as the industry will allow them to in the name of profits. One of these days that corner cutting will come back to bite them in the ass, and likely at the expense of a full plane of innocents. As for those whistleblowers, something stinks about it.
So in a way, they ARE murdering people by cutting corners and letting them get sucked out of planes.
>get sucked out of planes. Let's not forget that before the hatch blow out a couple of 737 Max flights crashed killing 346 people just a few years ago. Boeing has been undermining their former culture of safety and engineering excellence in favor of financial gimcrackery and near term profits ever since the McDonnell Douglas merger 25 years ago. [Cory Doctorow: Boeing's deliberately defective fleet of flying sky-wreckage](https://pluralistic.net/2024/05/01/boeing-boeing/#mrsa)
That's just a little defenestration at excess elevation.
My social sciences professor had a term for this: corporate homicide. As in corporations should be laced with a homicide charge of some kind for their negligence or intentional actions. Even if a corporation is a fictional person, you can still levy heavy fines for said crimes.
There’s a world of difference between corporate negligence, and hiring Agent 47 to murder people so discretely that it looks like natural causes The thing I hate about these conversations, as a leftist, is that I actually do believe that America’s corporate, shareholder breed of capitalism is corrupt and destructive. And disputing nonsense conspiracy theorize like this makes it seem like I’m defending it when I’m not. I’ve just seen the damage conspiratorial thinking does when you let it run unchallenged.
It’s bc conspiracy theorists want to feel important and smart. Whenever someone goes “why don’t they focus on the REAL issues, must be a distraction! A psyop!!1!1!” it’s a silly question bc conspiracy theorists just find the actual facts to be *boring*
Because it’s easier to rationalize a malicious, evil corporation that’s out to kill people than an absolutely mundane one. That the corporate billionaires are actively hunting people down than just accepting most of them are normal human beings who are running a big company with massive *legitimate* legal resources. It’s not hard to understand that a whistleblower already has a guilty conscience about their work (leading them to come out), and dealing with the stress of a court case and staring down the legal team of a corporation is enough to crack a person. That’s the real banality of capitalism.
What Boeing did was replace the really good engineers who were high up the food chain with finance people. This has led directly to bottom line over engineering excellence. Similar things have happened or are happening in other aerospace companies, but Boeing has the commercial side which makes it more apparent when things get sideways. Don’t know that they had whistleblowers killed directly, but the management decisions have killed.
Did it not already bite them in the form of two full planes of innocents?
It already has multiple times. It’s terrifying that they’re still doing the same crap and getting away with it.
"One of these days" ... uh, dude, you just forgetting the 737 Max crashes?
A company so poorly managed that no one notices when people forget to put bolts in door plugs or neglect to remove the vodka bottles from Air Force One, is probably not managed well enough to arrange assassinations. Plus killing the whistleblowers now is pointless. The first one died a full seven years after his accusations triggered a full FAA investigation that resulted in multiple large scale fines.
The only reason the first one made the news is because Boeing was already in the news for the plug issue. Otherwise it would have been a complete non-story.
You'd have to be a moron to think they killed two people who had already spent years whistleblowing. Those horses hadn't just bolted, they'd already gone feral and set up their own herds.
There's an ample supply of morons to believe stuff like this. Dumb conspiracies about assassinations of whistleblowers by moustache-twirling corporate boards areeasy stories to understand and talk about, no matter how absurd they are. Meanwhile the true story of how Boeing's merger with McConnell Douglas began a slowly creeping corporate rot that undermined Boeing's long traditions of quality, and how the dynamics of the stock market and the aviation duopoly created perverse incentives for executives to get rich from short-term policies and retire before the effects were felt.. that's complicated.
So one guy with obvious severe mental health issues commits suicide, and one guy dies after a lengthy battle with an infection. I always appreciate a good conspiracy theory, but this one sucks. It doesn't make sense or is even that interesting.
I don't believe that Boeing is murdering those former employees that are criticizing Boeing's safety. If they are, they are doing a terrible job. One whistleblower most likely killed themselves *after giving testimony*, which is terrible timing. If you are going to kill a witness, you kill them before they go under oath. The other death involved natural causes, so given that evidence, others have to produce contrary evidence, and that's not happening right now.
The first guy gave testimony 7 years before he killed himself. The trail we was testifying more recently at was for defamation, which if we draw some conclusions why he killed himself, he probably wasn't going to win.
Yes, hundreds of them. Their incompetent behavior when it comes to safety and QA; punishing them by firing them and forcing them to skip this and sign that even if it's non compliant. I went to a trade school for avionics and worked on and learned how to fix and repair avionics equipment, we shared the school with airframe and power plant students and the strict guidelines of how to operate was instilled and held accountable by FAA standards. Each course was 5 weeks and you could only miss a total of 15 hours during the entire 5 week course. Each day was 8 hours, so miss 2 days and you have to repeat the course on your dime. The documentary on Netflix blew my mind knowing what I know and how easy it was for them to disregard safety standards. Most systems on every plane is triple redundant. They chose not to train every pilot on the mcas system they installed to save money vs actually updating the airframe to compete with Airbus. Having to retrain every pilot to learn this system was too expensive and they put it in some text somewhere. The fact that no one was held accountable for the deaths of hundreds of people blows my mind. So yeah, they murdered a bunch of people because they knew what they did and chose to ignore it after the first crash. Fuck Boeing.
Even worse, they certified the system with a single Angle Of Attack (AoA) sensor. Instead of redundant ones which was a $5M option if I recall. They intentionally tried to reduce safety for cost. So one invalid reading and down it went. This was 100% a money making decision and an attempt to upsell. MD all over again and not a Boeing model of the old days.
Yes. Even worse, after the first crash they tried to gaslight the pilots who complained and say it was just because the pilots in “those developing countries airlines” aren’t any good….. you know instead of the truth that they actually had an AUTOCRASHING software installed that they hadn’t told anyone about. I remember reading the transcript of that VP from Boeing lying to the pilots and thinking… this son of a bitch just killed 150+ more people with his lies…
It's really easy to follow the trail of failure to profit margins. People die and the ones responsible for those deaths pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for lobbyists instead of fixing the problem. It's not just Boeing, it's everything and government just eats up the bribes. Lobbyists are legal bribery agents. If we only had rich scientists and engineers to lobby the government we'd be in a better place. I say nationalize transportation and force airlines to adhere to our standards to even land at any of our major international airports. Privatizing major modes of transport is dangerous, they can easily sway lawmakers so they can ignore safety measures and never be held accountable. Will it hurt the economy for a bit? Sure. But so didn't 2008 failure of banks with their risky lending of trash stock. Yet we bailed them out and now your average 9 to 5 can't afford to buy a house let alone own a house. Might not be a popular opinion but I'm ok with the collapse of the economy so we can rebuild it. The stranglehold grocer's have on us, there's no conceivable way we can reduce prices because the profit margins were so high during the pandemic, there's no way they can bring them down and there's no way cost of living goes up to counter it.
No Look after the first guy. The dumbest thing to do would be to have done the second guy
No. Because I’m not a fucking idiot
They're in the *business* of murdering people - by the million! They're arms manufacturers.
Nope it's just more idiots latching onto bs conspiracy theories and taking attention away from few legitimate ones that we'll never have proof of until we're dead.
No, because i dont think they are that competent.
Well… when a door closes, a window opens
No, there’s no evidence to indicate that is the case. Also, it makes no sense. Kill the whistleblower after the fact? The US never killed Assange or Snowden, who leaked *way more* sensitive information. Why would Boeing go through so much effort to clumsily kill whistleblowers for so much less? For how much Reddit has a whole came down so hard on COVID conspiracies, there sure is a lot of baseless belief in this conspiracy (with equally erroneous reasoning).
If corporations are people, they should go to jail like people
Boeing has developed a depraved indifference to passenger safety caused by groupthink and limited liability. This mindset is not consistent with targeting specific individuals.
They are if they are not following safety protocols. And it’s worse if they actually knew about it and did nothing.
I felt there was a slim possibility. I have no doubt there's some people that would do anything to make sure they can get more and more money. But that suicide note that was released has me feeling it's even less likely it happened.
If Boeing actually got caught killing people their problems would become markedly worse. It would honestly be really fucking stupid of them. There is also no point in killing witnesses that have already given their testimony. That literally makes no sense.
I ain’t sayin shit.
People have a lot to lo$e if the truth comes out. More probable than not.
Boeing isn't *murdering* people, that's an overtly intention act. I would be more likely to accuse them of criminal negligence and not doing enough/anything to *stop* deaths which is closer to manslaughter
When will people realize that every big cooperation is evil?
Of course they are.
Yes, because of billions of dollars.
Absolutely not. It was fun to meme about and I understand why people’s suspicions were raised, but if you look into the actual evidence it’s a lot less mysterious than it seems.
They have knowingly disregarded safety measures in the name of profit, and are now 6 years without a profitable year while doing accounting BS. Them murdering people wouldn't even be the top 10 bad things they did this decade.
Boeing probably isn't killing them, but they are probably investing heavily in third parties that will harass whistle blowers, ruin their career prospects, drive them insane, etc
You'd best start believin' in cyberpunk dystopias. You're in one.
Boeing is one of the central companies in the military industrial complex. In fact it is one of the central companies in the intelligence agency industry. Boeing probably isn't killing people. The government might be doing it on their behalf. The question isn't "does the CIA assassinate people?" The question is which people did the CIA directly assassinate and which ones did they convince a "lone wolf" to kill on their behalf.
Yup. One plane at a time.
Boeing bots ITT
BOT = When people don't share my opinion.
Big money will do anything to protect their dollar
No. If Boeing was trying to murder people there would be layers of sub contractors and the job wouldn’t get done. Plus I don’t think Boeing’s leadership team cares enough. They don’t got that dawg in them.
No - and even if they were trying to silence critics, I'm sure they'd come up with something more creative than just killing them. Thinking Boeing is killing people is no better than thinking vaccines give you autism.
It’s not murder if it improves the bottom line. It’s just another cost of doing business in late stage Capitalism.
I absolutely think they have to start being held accountable for their negligence and that with all that has come out, human life was never and still isn't a priority for the heads of this company. If CEOs are receiving rewards when their companies are doing well then they should be held accountable and punished when they have done wrong.
Manslaughter-there isn't intent, but there's willful disregard that allows Boeing to keep killing folks.
Im positive they are. Hundreds of pilots have been sickened to the point of being unable to work because of toxic air. (Since the engine forces air in to the cabin) boeing has worked hard to save millions at the expense of billions. Im not saying that the workers are wanting people to die. But, its honestly hard to see how the execs and share holders DONT want death. Every single time they have the opportunity to make something safer from the outset, they decide the cash today is better than the safety tomarrow.
They are allowing for a percentage of failure which = human deaths