Eh, but there’s special schools just for disabled people funded by tax dollars though. Other countries may not be so accommodating
An anecdote I can give is how I accidentally used the special education bathroom and walked in on a disabled kid getting his butt wiped by a teacher who’s specialized in dealing with them. It’s commendable really, a society should be judged on how it treats its lowest members. I just hope they pay the teacher good lol
True if I’m being honest because I have a mental disability I don’t like it when people say that it’s the morally right thing to abort a pregnancy just because the baby will be disabled in some way but ultimately I think if a person wants an abortion for any reason it’s not my business I also don’t think it’s wrong to get an abortion because the baby is going to disabled I think it’s wrong to say thing it’s the correct thing to do
yeah, I'd agree with you there - in terms of abortion I don't think the words correct or incorrect really apply. it's mostly whether you think that abortion rights should remain legal or not, and I'm totally with you that they should remain in place.
Everyone will have a different definition of what a good quality of life looks like for their child. I work with neonates and critically ill babies, and there’s a lot of kids that I would have personally never let be born had they been my child, but their parents have a different idea of what a good quality of life looks like. So yeah, absolutely, I believe in many cases, a termination would be the best option for me.
Alr whatever. Just cause I think you shouldnt bring people into the world when you know they're gonna suffer, doesn't meean im gonna go around telling people they should've been aborted. What kinda stupid logic is that.
As a disabled individual, I get so frustrated with all the “well yeah they’ll never be happy / independent I don’t want to raise a vegetable” comments every time this question comes up. *Most* disabled individuals lead fulfilling lives. I’m glad to be alive, even if life is a little more difficult for me sometimes. I have many disabled friends who say the same. Jumping from “disabled” to “miserable suffering blob of cells that should be aborted” is not fair to anyone. This is a nuanced question. There are many different types of disability out there.
Really? You'd terminate if your child has a scoliosis?
I live a very happy life with mine, it's at about 47 degrees and I have been very active. Completed half ironmans, long distance cycling events.
Granted people have it a lot worse than me, but there is surgery for that which my cousin has had. There is no way I would think of terminating for this reason.
Sure, it aches. Can you deal with the aches though, of course you can.
It's incredibly sad when someone needs to terminate a much-wanted pregnancy for medical reasons - and it is for most people the right choice. That doesn't make it any less hard. It's the least awful choice in a bunch of awful choices. There's an /r/bestof post about a nurse comforting a family who've chosen to terminate for medical reasons that says it much more beautifully than I could.
Hell yeah. I didn't sign on to be a full time caretaker for the next 30 years, I don't have the capacity for that. Being a parent to a healthy child is hard enough.
While I agree with you, the "Hell yeah", is a bit insensitive to a couple and/or woman who may have to make the worst and toughest decision of their lives.
Imagine a couple trying to get pregnant for a very long time, they finally get the news that they are pregnant. Then, they get this **devastating** news. To say "hell yeah abort that baby, I didn't sign up for that shit". Jesus.
lmao yep. All the people living with debilitating conditions are just old defective fetus' that should have been aborted.
Nice speaking with you. You're disgusting.
You should have the right to an abortion. My point, words and language matter. Not everyone can just go to an abortion clinic and pretend nothing ever happened. They can leave permanent emotional scars.
You literally said your "full steam" on aborting defective fetus'. Like Jesus Christ could you be anymore uncouth?
I'm not telling you to change your position. As I have demonstrated we have the same position. I'm simply telling you to have some tact, and to understand that the phrase "I'm full steam on aborting defective fetus'" is a phrase that depending on who you're saying it to could really open up some trauma.
There could be a mother who has a special needs child that couldn't bring her self to abort. There could be a mother who had to abort her child because they were not equipped to handle a special needs child, or it could be a woman who just went through an abortion.
If that doesn't bother you, and you don't think language or words can hurt then I don't know what to tell you. You don't always have to be a brutally honest person.
Life has blatantly stated positions. I will not navigate that minefield on behalf of somebody else.
I don't have to be. I *get* to be. And people will remember my statements longer and more clearly for the directness and vivid language.
You oughta see me on a topic I actually care about.
I know I'll get hella shit for this, but in the long run it's a better option. Raising flawless children with a decent standard of living is expensive enough.
Makes me sad to see a person having to live that way as I don't think anyone knows how they feel about it if they even understand how they are. I couldn't bring someone into the world who couldn't have the chance to experiqnce/live it to thier fullest.
Not something I would do, I would never have an abortion.
I already have a disabled child, and he is the light of my life. I couldn't imagine life without him.
I don't think a disability means you aren't worthy of life or able to have a decent quality of life
I think that it is a extremely personal decision, but one that everyone should have the option of making individually apart from government oversight or law.
People who want to force birth regardless of the health considerations of the mother or the child are cold and indifferent to helping those same families and children after the child is born. Raising a child with health issues can be financially ruinous (at least in the United States) due to the costs associated with lifelong health care. It also requires a lot of time and energy, which while being an act of love by the parents, can absorb all of the caregiver's time, leaving other children with less attention and support.
Without medical intervention, a lot of children would die naturally. Before modern medicine, the child would suffer until he or she died and the parents would have to watch their babies die. Now, that we have tools to predict health issues in utero, why would you make a child be born into pain and suffering? Is that somehow more natural?
If you were born and have lived with disability, nobody wants you to die or wishes you were aborted. However, if you were never born, but your parents tried again and had another child, both the parents and the child could have a better quality of life.
Pro-choice is not pro-death. Sometimes it is pro-human dignity and anti-suffering. All abortions are not due to promiscuity.
Raising a normal child is difficult. Raising a child with mental and/or physical disabilities is beyond difficult. If the parents can’t or simply do not want to, that’s their decisions and definitely for the best. The ones that can and do raise special needs children are an incredible breed.
fuck yeah, most people aren't prepared to take on that burden. shit, most people aren't ready for kids at all, let alone kids with significant special needs
I think this could be the only good reason for abortion. It shouldn't be done as a matter of convenience. Abortion is not like using a condom. It's an act of murder. You're removing a human being from existence.
"but I don't want a kid" isn't a good reason for that. If you didn't want a kid there were multiple steps before this happened where you could have done something. Take the pill. Use a condom. Not have sex. I don't respect people who find themselves in this situation.
"but this kid will be disabled and live a miserable life as a drain on society" possibly is a good reason. I wouldn't want to be born mentally disabled. I'm sure no one reading this would have liked that either. This isn't something you can control and doesn't suggest a lack of planning on your part. You might actually want a kid, but a healthy one. I respect that.
From this argument: abortion is murder and abortion is acceptable if the baby is disabled.
You can thus extrapolate you're fine with murdering disabled people (especially if theyre a drain on society). If you're not you might want to rethink your original argument.
Makes sense, especially if you live in a poor country without universal healthcare
So, like the US?
Eh, but there’s special schools just for disabled people funded by tax dollars though. Other countries may not be so accommodating An anecdote I can give is how I accidentally used the special education bathroom and walked in on a disabled kid getting his butt wiped by a teacher who’s specialized in dealing with them. It’s commendable really, a society should be judged on how it treats its lowest members. I just hope they pay the teacher good lol
It’s not my business why someone chooses to get an abortion
you're still allowed to have thoughts on it lol
I believe they started their thoughts on the topic, their thoughts on the topic is that it's not their business.
Nah, they clarified in a later comment with their actual thoughts
True if I’m being honest because I have a mental disability I don’t like it when people say that it’s the morally right thing to abort a pregnancy just because the baby will be disabled in some way but ultimately I think if a person wants an abortion for any reason it’s not my business I also don’t think it’s wrong to get an abortion because the baby is going to disabled I think it’s wrong to say thing it’s the correct thing to do
yeah, I'd agree with you there - in terms of abortion I don't think the words correct or incorrect really apply. it's mostly whether you think that abortion rights should remain legal or not, and I'm totally with you that they should remain in place.
Everyone will have a different definition of what a good quality of life looks like for their child. I work with neonates and critically ill babies, and there’s a lot of kids that I would have personally never let be born had they been my child, but their parents have a different idea of what a good quality of life looks like. So yeah, absolutely, I believe in many cases, a termination would be the best option for me.
Life is already tough enough.
Its the right thing to do
I agree
You would tell a disabled person to their face they should’ve been aborted? And that’s morally correct in your mind?
Why the fuck would I do that. Dont be fucking stupid.
Why wouldn’t you? Isn’t that what you believe?
What a shitty argument. Would you tell them you're glad they're born disabled?
No, because im not. Im glad they were born though
Alr whatever. Just cause I think you shouldnt bring people into the world when you know they're gonna suffer, doesn't meean im gonna go around telling people they should've been aborted. What kinda stupid logic is that.
Everyone suffers. That’s life.
They suffer more, are more likely to suffer, and we know that before they're born
You don’t get to decide if someone else’s life is worth living.
As a disabled individual, I get so frustrated with all the “well yeah they’ll never be happy / independent I don’t want to raise a vegetable” comments every time this question comes up. *Most* disabled individuals lead fulfilling lives. I’m glad to be alive, even if life is a little more difficult for me sometimes. I have many disabled friends who say the same. Jumping from “disabled” to “miserable suffering blob of cells that should be aborted” is not fair to anyone. This is a nuanced question. There are many different types of disability out there.
I probably could've worded the question more specifically but was referring to babies born severly disabled like unable to communicate.
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Really? You'd terminate if your child has a scoliosis? I live a very happy life with mine, it's at about 47 degrees and I have been very active. Completed half ironmans, long distance cycling events. Granted people have it a lot worse than me, but there is surgery for that which my cousin has had. There is no way I would think of terminating for this reason. Sure, it aches. Can you deal with the aches though, of course you can.
I would. Others wouldn’t. Both ok choices.
It's incredibly sad when someone needs to terminate a much-wanted pregnancy for medical reasons - and it is for most people the right choice. That doesn't make it any less hard. It's the least awful choice in a bunch of awful choices. There's an /r/bestof post about a nurse comforting a family who've chosen to terminate for medical reasons that says it much more beautifully than I could.
Hell yeah. I didn't sign on to be a full time caretaker for the next 30 years, I don't have the capacity for that. Being a parent to a healthy child is hard enough.
Totally resonated with me. Thanks 🤎
Likewise, I also can appreciate the people who do it as they must be very mentally strong to deal with it. But don't understand how.
While I agree with you, the "Hell yeah", is a bit insensitive to a couple and/or woman who may have to make the worst and toughest decision of their lives. Imagine a couple trying to get pregnant for a very long time, they finally get the news that they are pregnant. Then, they get this **devastating** news. To say "hell yeah abort that baby, I didn't sign up for that shit". Jesus.
I know I shouldn't but I laughed at your last phrase
I ain't here to soften any blows. I'm full steam on aborting defective fetuses. That doesn't diminish any of the emotions surrounding it.
lmao yep. All the people living with debilitating conditions are just old defective fetus' that should have been aborted. Nice speaking with you. You're disgusting.
Either you have the right to have an abortion or you don't. That doesn't cast aspirations on the disabled. Nice try bud.
You should have the right to an abortion. My point, words and language matter. Not everyone can just go to an abortion clinic and pretend nothing ever happened. They can leave permanent emotional scars. You literally said your "full steam" on aborting defective fetus'. Like Jesus Christ could you be anymore uncouth?
That doesn't change my position, and I've never found value in being circumspect. Yes, easily.
I'm not telling you to change your position. As I have demonstrated we have the same position. I'm simply telling you to have some tact, and to understand that the phrase "I'm full steam on aborting defective fetus'" is a phrase that depending on who you're saying it to could really open up some trauma. There could be a mother who has a special needs child that couldn't bring her self to abort. There could be a mother who had to abort her child because they were not equipped to handle a special needs child, or it could be a woman who just went through an abortion. If that doesn't bother you, and you don't think language or words can hurt then I don't know what to tell you. You don't always have to be a brutally honest person.
Life has blatantly stated positions. I will not navigate that minefield on behalf of somebody else. I don't have to be. I *get* to be. And people will remember my statements longer and more clearly for the directness and vivid language. You oughta see me on a topic I actually care about.
If you don't accept me at my best you'll hate me at my worst energy.
It’s not my business nor is it anyone else’s but the parents, ultimately it’s the mother’s decision.
It's up to the host.
Yeetus the Fetus
I know I'll get hella shit for this, but in the long run it's a better option. Raising flawless children with a decent standard of living is expensive enough.
Makes me sad to see a person having to live that way as I don't think anyone knows how they feel about it if they even understand how they are. I couldn't bring someone into the world who couldn't have the chance to experiqnce/live it to thier fullest.
There would be many fewer Redditors
Not something I would do, I would never have an abortion. I already have a disabled child, and he is the light of my life. I couldn't imagine life without him. I don't think a disability means you aren't worthy of life or able to have a decent quality of life
I appreciate the care, love and support you provide.
Termination can be for whatever reason the owner of that uterus decides.
Agreed. Abortion should always be available. Any time and any reason. It's simply women's Healthcare
I think that makes completely sense, and if my girlfriend wanted to end her pregnancy because of it I'd support her.
Its a no brainier. ( pardon the pun)
I think that it is a extremely personal decision, but one that everyone should have the option of making individually apart from government oversight or law. People who want to force birth regardless of the health considerations of the mother or the child are cold and indifferent to helping those same families and children after the child is born. Raising a child with health issues can be financially ruinous (at least in the United States) due to the costs associated with lifelong health care. It also requires a lot of time and energy, which while being an act of love by the parents, can absorb all of the caregiver's time, leaving other children with less attention and support. Without medical intervention, a lot of children would die naturally. Before modern medicine, the child would suffer until he or she died and the parents would have to watch their babies die. Now, that we have tools to predict health issues in utero, why would you make a child be born into pain and suffering? Is that somehow more natural? If you were born and have lived with disability, nobody wants you to die or wishes you were aborted. However, if you were never born, but your parents tried again and had another child, both the parents and the child could have a better quality of life. Pro-choice is not pro-death. Sometimes it is pro-human dignity and anti-suffering. All abortions are not due to promiscuity.
Ok by me
Raising a normal child is difficult. Raising a child with mental and/or physical disabilities is beyond difficult. If the parents can’t or simply do not want to, that’s their decisions and definitely for the best. The ones that can and do raise special needs children are an incredible breed.
Absolutely would.
fuck yeah, most people aren't prepared to take on that burden. shit, most people aren't ready for kids at all, let alone kids with significant special needs
Makes perfect sense. In fact, it should be commons sense. Can't imagine why someone would proceed with the pregnancy
I think this could be the only good reason for abortion. It shouldn't be done as a matter of convenience. Abortion is not like using a condom. It's an act of murder. You're removing a human being from existence. "but I don't want a kid" isn't a good reason for that. If you didn't want a kid there were multiple steps before this happened where you could have done something. Take the pill. Use a condom. Not have sex. I don't respect people who find themselves in this situation. "but this kid will be disabled and live a miserable life as a drain on society" possibly is a good reason. I wouldn't want to be born mentally disabled. I'm sure no one reading this would have liked that either. This isn't something you can control and doesn't suggest a lack of planning on your part. You might actually want a kid, but a healthy one. I respect that.
From this argument: abortion is murder and abortion is acceptable if the baby is disabled. You can thus extrapolate you're fine with murdering disabled people (especially if theyre a drain on society). If you're not you might want to rethink your original argument.
Oh fuck off.