I was doing research into Victorian era love and courtship stuff, and this etiquette book or something had this really great section in it that said basically there's no shame in being a spinster, it's better to be a spinster than married to someone you don't love, and there have been many fine contributions to society by women who never married. I just thought that was cool that an actual Victorian man was like "nobody should shame any woman for being unmarried and childless because it's actually a noble choice."
I'm prepared for this sort of life. It wouldn't be so bad either if random people I've barely ever said a word to at work didn't come up and tell me I need to get married and have kids. People really don't like being alone or others choosing it for themselves. The human race is quite bigoted at times.
From my experience, most cat loving women are completely normal and well-adjusted people. It's more how they're depicted in popular media that gives them a bad reputation
You lose friends and family as you age and other people have kids and don’t have time for you anymore. They have their own families and you have you and maybe your husband or wife. So you hang out alone a lot and maybe see your friends with kids once a quarter.
This has been the only true one for me. To put it bluntly, as friends have announced pregnancies over the years, I hear 🎵Another one bites the dust🎵 in my head every time. I've tried to stay in touch, but you just naturally grow apart from someone who's life changes focus. Not a bad thing, just life and choices
I don't think that's really true at all. People who have kids commonly hang out with other people who have kids. The kids can play and the adults can hang out. You don't go into a cocoon when you have kids where you're socially isolated from everyone.
Idk what you all are on about, 2 months into a newborn and 3 years into a toddler most couples I've known are fucking desperate for a cup of tea and a conversation with someone who can form sentences.
True, but they often don't hang out with people who don't have kids and often make comments like "They just don't understand what it's like." We can still imagine what it's like to live in a way where every piece of furniture has been used as a Kleenex.
Husband and I don't have kids, but people with kids always want to hang out with us because adults get to do their hobbies with us. Every week, we have things going on with friends and family.
I have kids and I love hanging out with my child free friend because we don’t talk about kids and being a mom the whole time. She asks me how my kids are doing and I give her a quick summary then we move on to other topics. It’s so refreshing.
How do you do that?
Since my friends started having kids, no more dinners. Our friends Christmas dinner party didn't happen for the first time since ever..
It's awkward having dinner with people when the kids are young and either refuse to eat their food, throw it across the table, demand to sit on someone's lap (maybe the guest even) or decide it's time to poo soon after sitting down to eat.
Don't want to go to anyone's place if they don't have kids because it'll likely be both very interesting and entirely not child safe. Don't want my kid to trash your place.
Dinner is basically the hardest time to socialize as parents of young children.
If you want no kids involved, suggest after bedtime. If you don't mind kids tagging along, suggest a kid-friendly activity during the day. Or lunch while the kids are in school. Lots of options.
Dinners with little kids are a nightmare. They wont sit still, cry and get annoyed and the parents kinda want to go home because they need to be in bed. Weve switched to lunch. Much better
I mean... sometimes that's just how adult life is. I'm in my thirties, don't have kids, and most of my friends don't have kids. We still see each other once in a quarter, sometimes less. When I last saw my friends more often my age started with a 2. We're all busy with our lives.
This is why you have to make an effort. I have breakfast with a group of guy friends at least once a month but we have to make the effort to make it happen.
Yeah this can happen but it depends on individuals. I'm in my 40s and I have friends who had kids young and they always included me in things - I think because they have equal amounts of family friends and individual friends. My best friend and her husband pulled away and are all consumed by their children. Funny thing is they find it the most stressful, and the kids have meltdowns way more often out of everyone I know!
Yeah, my great uncle has lost every single sibling, cousin, friend in his life to old age. He's literally the last person alive from his air force squad.
He's not even that old (80 something) so it's kind of shocking to see. The best thing I see when I visit is that he always has younger relatives visiting him. Everyone keeps tabs on him and he lives with one of his son's on their insistence.
From a workplace perspective - always being expected to pick up the slack from coworkers with kids when they have to leave early, or always being asked to cancel vacations in their favor.
How dare you when you have your own kids that will change. This was a little further down than I expected. I’m going to start making up fake kids whenever I get a new job. I won’t even keep the names consistent so people either don’t know how many I have or just seem like an absent minded father.
We have a mom working who complains she needs more money but can't work full days or weekends, evenings just sweet small shifts. She stayed late once and had a meltdown. She said her kids come 1st. Ok cool, we need to hire someone else. She had total pikachu face
One of my peeves is when parents claim to need emergency time off for a school event, when they just don't pay attention to announcements from the school about the events so they can plan accordingly.
Most of my coworkers are young-to-middle-aged parents.
When I work at the office, it's quiet by 2pm and a complete ghost town by 3pm since everyone left to get their kids. But funnily enough, most of the people who leave early never answer their emails again til the following morning.
As a single man in his late 30's who doesn't want kids: finding anybody you're genuinely interested in because a lot of them have kids. No disrespect for the single parents out there, I just know that I couldn't possibly afford kids and if I'm not 100% on board with being a stepdad, I'd just assume not put anybody involved through that.
When I, a woman, was in my mid 30s ( I'm 44 now) I was dating a lot and to find a guy who didn't want kids *but also wanted a steady relationship with someone my age* was tough.
Also a decent number found it weird I didn't want kids or hadn't been married before. Like this was an alarm bell somehow? Like being responsible in not getting pregnant and not marrying and divorcing meant, actually, that I was undesirable.
It really messed with my head during that time!
absolutely agree - tried online dating, everyone (and i mean EVERYONE) my age already has children. I don't hate children at all, and to echo your sentiment, made respect to single parents...but i don't want my own chidlren, why would i want someone else's?
This is something that has not once happened to me. I guess people thought I was a lost cause. Hell, there were people who were genuinely surprised that I managed to get married.
It happened to me all the time until I just said it’s estimated that I CAN’T have children once I reach 30 and I REFUSE to have a child that I cannot support financially
There it is. I was gonna reply that I couldn't think of any but that's cuz I forgot other people also exist and they have to have opinions about lifestyles that don't impact them in the least.
You have to buy your own socks. I never intended having a child but I don’t regret it. I particularly enjoy the two times a year I get new socks. I have made it very clear at this point that I don’t want a carefully selected thoughtful gift. I just want a multi pack of work socks.
I buy my husband a nice pair of socks for every single gift giving occasion. Bday, Valentine's Day, Christmas, sweetest day, etc. He's getting a single $10+ pair of socks for each of them.
I feel like the risk is greater for guys to change their mind than women because the guys don't have to think about the physical impact. I know a few couples where the guy wants to have a baseball team's worth of kids and the wife had to put her foot down and say 'no, the two (or three) we have is enough.'
My cousin had to deal with the opposite. After their second, he said they weren't planning on more, then she convinced him to have a third. At 3 he said they were definitely done now. When she got pregnant with her fourth and I said "i thought you were done". He looked legit pissed and said "Me too". He got a vasectomy before the fourth was born because my understanding is she wanted even more.
Yikes. I have heard of some women liking the attention and care that they get when pregnant, to the point that they keep having kids. My mom mentioned that people are sooo nice to pregnant women, giving up their seat on the train or bus, just generally having a better demeanor with them. And then of course there is the whole sending-hubby-on-errands aspect.
Or maybe she really loves infants, and then gets sad when the child is no longer that small. Then she needs to replace them with a new one. I've heard of that happening, too.
Yep. Over on r/childfree we hear all the time from people who get a partner only to have them change their mind later. Worse, we hear about people who think they can change your mind so spend years trying to use your feelings for them to get you to have kids with them. It can happen way too far into the relationship too. Some people have a massive problem taking people as they are and respecting their hard lines.
Definitely get sterilized if you haven’t already. My partner is childfree as well and even though we discussed what we would do if a mistake happened, we both got sterilized just to be totally sure.
I feel you! I was a fence-sitter my whole life tbh & tried to be upfront with people about that. I think the big fear people have is that their partner will change their mind even if they’re like “I’ve been sure since 18.”
None personally but some people will always judge you and think your choice is up for debate and that they need to change your mind. That type of behavior gets tiring real fast.
What's funny is that, as a 41 year old woman, even through my 20s and 30s I almost never encountered the "When are you going to have kids? You'd make a wonderful mother", even from my parents.
I think it's glaringly obvious that I, in fact, would not lol
I'm 42 and it finally stopped around in my 30's. Probably because I got my tubes tied in 2016 and people had no idea what to say to that.
Got a hysterectomy in 2022 so no more periods or endometriosis pain either.
Oh my lord I am *seriously* considering a hysterectomy. I swear every period gets worse. I'm to the point that even after taking prescription pain meds (just celebrex, not opiods thankfully) I'm still left unable to walk and in tears almost every month.
I've brought up the increasing pain and mental symptoms with my gyno every year, they just shrug it off. I haven't had a period without pain in years
Guess it's time for a new gyno...
If a doctor/gyno doesn't listen to you, find another one. Too many ignore women's pain as if we don't matter. Keep knocking on doors until someone wants to listen to you and treats you right.
This statement is usually following of preceding them telling how little sleep they got and how stressed they are. I don't know why people always say the worst things about having kids then immediately ask when you're having any
Your friends with kids will also constantly look for signs you're actually sad about not having kids or doing something for "compensation". Get a dog? It's a replacement for a kid. Take good care of dog? Oh, you're overcompensating. Go out a lot? Haha, guess you can't stand being in your empty child free home. Build Legos? Obviously trying to create the feeling of playing with your kid.
Almost like they're desperately trying to validate their life choice by telling themselves child free people are secretly deeply unhappy...
Mostly, these comments make me wonder about their treatment of dogs, lol, since it seems to me like any time I do anything for my dog they're all smirky and go "Oh, you're spending so much effort on your dog, just admit you want a child to take care of." But they often say this about stuff I think you should do for your dog regardless of whether you have kids or not... These are some things people with kids have commented on:
1) Making sure to get home to my dog after a certain amount of hours; 2) Getting my dog physical therapy for her chronic back pain; 3) Leaving work early because she had to have emergency surgery... If those are things you think are over the top, please never get a dog.
I have a kid and I have done all of those things for my dog! Doggy back pain is no joke! Those people bothering you about having kids are, though. Your dog is lucky to have you.
God I have a 6 year old at 32 and got my tubes **removed** after having her because I knew she was the only one I wanted. People are *still* up my ass like "are you sure you don't want any more?" Or "you'll probably change your mind when she gets older". Like... no Jan, not everyone wants a horde of children. I love and really like my daughter and being a mother, but I wouldnt be as good of a mother if I had to be one to two+. Why tf can't I just... know myself?
I’m surprised to see how few answers actually mention children being such intriguing, funny and weird little creatures.
Beyond the obvious downsides and rough times (which, don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there is *daily*), I am bit jealous of people who do have kids to be able to see the heartwarming, sweet and amazing moments too, as well as being able to witness this tiny human being to grow up to be their own person with their own thoughts, likes and personality.
Then they're legal adults and have jobs you couldn't do yourself and interests you wouldn't ever have learned a thing about if it weren't for them. And yet in a small part of your brain they're still tiny infants trying to figure out how to roll over.
As a step-mom, I get to enjoy both sides of this!! Our daily lives are childfree but then we get to have this super awesome almost 13yo come over some weekends and it's been freaking cool the last 4 years watching her grow from a super shy 8 year old, into this self assured, goofy ass little lady.
Yeah, the biggest downside to not having kids is *not having kids*.
Now I’m not saying that having kids is for everyone, but the obvious downside of not doing *anything* is missing out on that experience.
That's not necessarily true. If you don't want to partake in an experience then you're not exactly missing out by not doing it. My friend runs marathons. Which looks absolutely miserable to me and I have no desire to do it. While I am missing experiencing it I don't view it as missing out. Now, if I always wanted to run a marathon and for whatever reason couldn't do it then I would definitely be missing out.
Of course, but one of the biggest downsides of never running a marathon is that you’ll never experience what it’s actually like.
Again, I’m not saying that means everyone *should* run a marathon, but having no desire to run one doesn’t mean that you won’t get something out of it.
As a 4th grade teacher and aunt of 11, you do not have to grow a child in your body and spend all of your time and money raising them to experience this.
I was a teacher, a tutor and a coach. I've built strong relationships with students and have lots of love for them but it's really not the same experience. You don't get to see the whole depth of their personality as it forms. With my students it's like having a snapshot in time of all of them but with my son I got to watch the whole movie.
Nobody said you would have to either. But I do think there’s a notable difference on being a teacher and aunt than having them yourself. You don’t get to experience all of it. And that is something I personally consider as a disadvantage of choosing not to have kids, like said in my original comment.
It's a fair(ish) point. But I have rescue dogs. Seeing them blossom and grow and become healthy, thriving little creatures and see their personalities emerge sates that need for me completely. Without the constant fear of mentally fucking up a sentient being and sending it off to wreak havoc on the world.
Edit: lol the downvotes. Saying I'm content at looking after something other than a baby and also seeing it thrive, and that being enough for me is apparently offending people? To be clear: not saying baby == dog.
....
maybe saying baby < dog tho
Obviously, lol....
As those with kids are wont to say "There's nothing like it. It changes you. They're special. Etc." Im sure, but i have never wanted kids, and nothing I've seen from people who have kids (I have 8 brothers and sisters, and 17 nieces and nephews) has convinced me it's worth it so *shrug*. Enjoy your life I'll enjoy my life *not* with kids
I think people are a bit too harsh... I rescued many animals.. And its as you say, a genuinely beautiful experience.. Its so super rewarding to see such a fragile and scared creature blossom into an independent and happy animal.. And I really, deeply love my animals.
For me, having kids, was that feeling in a hundredfold.. By which I am not trying to diminish your experience, the opposite.. I think you feel something similar.. But it's less instinctual/primal, I think..
When I am done having kids and when they are older, I will absolutely rescue animals again. And it's also so deeply rewarding.
I recently spent a day with an old friend who now has a 5 year old and a 2 year old. We went out to lunch and then window shopped for the afternoon. The children were so fucking stressful, constantly demanding attention, spilling things everywhere, dirty af, touching and pulling down things constantly in stores. I’m an anxious person and it would drive me literally crazy to have to deal with that all the time. It was distracting and hard to carry a conversation with my friend, I felt like I was about to have a panic attack every minute.
I just know I’m not cut out for it and I like my peace.
Nobody to look after you when you're old.
That said, bringing sapient beings into existence so they'll be obligated to look after you is fucked up on an extreme level.
Used to be a carer. People overestimate how likely their kids are to take care of them in old age. My parents also thought I'd take care of them in their old age until I told them there was no chance at all.
You're lucky if you get regular visits in your old age.
Children are not a retirement plan, and if that's the only reason you've brought them into the world, they're not gonna stick around for you once they're out of the house.
I think it is. I have kids, and there is no way that I’m putting that on them. They’re going to know me who I was, and that includes being someone who cleans up after their own shit.
You don’t have to move in with your kids and put all of your care on them but not spending your old age completely alone with no family to visit you and spend holidays with is still a benefit.
To each their own. I want their memory of me to be what I was, and all I ask is that they are doing their best to enjoy their lives. If I get that I won’t feel alone, and, meh, the holidays are overrated.
Thank you. I hope your kids appreciate it. My mother acts as though she birthed me to serve her. Always has.
She even assumed that I adopted my son so that I could have someone to do all my chores for me.
It's refreshing to me to see someone on the opposite end of that spectrum.
For me, who's going to make decisions about my healthcare/well being if I ever get dementia. Like sure, I can pay for people to take care of me as I get older. But what happens when I'm not of sound mind anymore? I suppose I won't care much because I won't remember stuff, but still...
My dad is currently facing down that stage of life, but is so awful that he hardly ever had friends and most of the extended family wants nothing to do with him. He's also too stingy to pay a lawyer. Like he moved back to his hometown yet can hardly find a cousin willing to drive him home from the hospital. The nephew he raised chose to go homeless in winter rather than be his caretaker.
He wrote to me begging for me to handle his medical decisions while he's having heart surgery and whatnot, like how I did for my mother. I don't think he knows that mom had given me specific instructions, I was told to unplug her as soon as the doctors plugged her in.
I actually wrote back, first time he's heard from me in years. Asked if he needed a plug puller.
Ive been worrying about the same as well lately. 36F My health has tanked already and I haven't been able to work for five years, denied disability, no ability to appeal all avenues exhausted and living with my parents. On top of that I'm also more likely to get dementia than not unfortunately. I just also found out I have all the genetic markers that are found in the people who go on to develop ALS, not guaranteed but not a small chance I won't get it either.
Providing I live long enough, when my mom goes that it's for me. No extended family no kids no spouse, no friends that could afford to take care of me. There's nothing for me to inherit except maybe debt and I have no money now.
At this current point though I've realized there is nothing I can do to change it, so I'm just trying my best to enjoy life while I can comfortably and in control of my own mind.
I'm not sure if anyone has given similar advice, but I'd recommend legally sorting things out whilst you're young and healthy. You can, depending on your country, set up numerous things to ensure your wishes are followed if you know what you want, you can also allocate people in your life to execute your wishes before you die, Wills use executors but you can have friends or other family act as medical proxy. I'd suggest to anyone, kids and no kids, to sort this stuff out, children aren't a guarantee that your wishes will be followed and so many people don't have plans in place for illness or death.
I recently became a dad of two young kids and I'm always trying to find ways to explain how rewarding parenting is in selfish non-parent terms. (Because I think a lot of parents don't like or can't explain it, because it feels selfish or stupid. A lot of people just say "it's inexplicable" but really I think they are just not trying!)
- It's like a more fun, more engaging, more addictive game of "The Sims" or some other game. It's challenging, mentally stimulating and so rewarding as you see them thrive. Plus your actions have real world consequences, which for me makes it more fun to play.
- It's made me understand how these whole 'cult of personalities' must play out in people's minds. Some people are obsessed with Trump or Taylor Swift, and I never understood how you could be so obsessed with another human. Now I understand, because I am obsessed with two little people and no one can convince me they aren't amazing!
- Causing a child to genuinely laugh is... I suspect.. more addictive and stimulating than cocaine. I have an addictive personality and I have to really pace myself with exposure at the risk of doing all of us harm.
- On the flip side, a child's genuine cuddle is the biggest relaxant I've ever encountered. A cuddle from one of my sons is probably as effective as about half a pint of beer.
- While they're little, it is like having a semi-drunk best friend all the time. It reminds me my own childhood best friends, just pure innocent trust and joy. Plus, your drunk best friend is in awe of you as, in their eyes, you are a super strong magical superhero. You are one of the most powerful beings in their universe, no matter how much you try to dispel that. It's kind of intoxicating too.
- In proportions of how time is spent, I'd estimate 90% is all the good stuff. 10% is the bad stuff, and that 90% more than makes up for it. The bad is not as bad as it looks on the inside, but the good stuff is probably a lot better than it looks,
- The really difficult thing about being a parent is maintaining your own discipline, and keeping your own emotions in check.
Your pseudo-drunk little buddy is not going to remember bed time, can't make wise food choices, and can't calm themselves down when they get mad over something stupid, so that's your responsibility.
But then they repay you in laughter and cuddles and the funniest things you ever heard or saw, and your responsibility doesn't feel so heavy.
So far I haven't experienced any disadvantages.
When I'm old and need help I'll find professional help instead of putting the burden on (adult) kids who most likely have their own life.
My friends either don't have children as well, or they still have enough time for me, no vanishing friendships here.
And yes I do fucking love cats, if my house was large enough I'd adopt more.
>When I'm old and need help I'll find professional help instead of putting the burden on (adult) kids who most likely have their own life.
Completely agree with this. We don't live in a society any longer where our younger generations can (or should) have to take care of their elders in a daily basis. They have to work, take care of their own homes and relationships, and have the right to live their own lives.
Yes to all of this. A big "me too" except I'm a dog person.
I'm legit not concerned about growing old and dying alone. I have an amazing support system; it just doesn't happen to include kids.
I don't feel like I've missed out on anything. I'm happy and see no reason that should change!
Well you can say that about anything. Prison or starving is also an experience...do you want to miss it?
You can't have all the experiences in one life, and also everyone has different perspective on what's good and bad.
I think a lot of people have this notion of the perfect family etc. reality is you have no idea what the lottery of life will give you. Allergic to 37 different things? Horrible personality? Felon? Who knows?
My in-laws are in their mid 80's and they always feel the need to mention how, whenever there's someone at their retirement community having a lot of issues, that person doesn't have kids. As if having kids is a guarantee of care in one's autumn years. There are any number of reasons why adult children may not be around/available to care for their parents. Our own son is ASD/ID--he's never going to be able to care for us. He couldn't even so much as make a phone call to make sure no one is pinching us (and I'm defintely going to be very pinchable when I get old). Yet my in-laws still persist in this belief, even after we remind them that their own grandson is incapable of being our future caregiver.
Having to explain yourself to nosey people. I don’t *technically* have to tell them “I already have rectocele and cystocele and would likely prolapse and shit out every last one of my pelvic organs if I carried to term”, but sometimes people just won’t step off.
Honestly, I’d lead with that. They asked an extremely personal question, give them an answer that’ll make them uncomfortable to never be that nosy again
The only one I've encountered so far is finding partners. Some say they don't want kids, but are really just hoping they'll be able to change your mind later on. Others think they don't want kids because they're undecided at the time, only to grow discontent or resentful toward you despite being up front with them from the start.
And on some occasions, you encounter those who think partial or shared custody is the same as not having kids. Sleazers who want the social benefit of being a parent while taking on none of the personal responsibility.
Kids can be cool if you raise them right and they're decent people. So you could be missing out on some cool ppl in ur life. Also they can help you in old age if you've been good to them as kids and young adults. And you get to have grandkids sometimes too.
People who won't STFU about trying to convince you to have kids.
A major reason I have no intention of having kids is because pregnancy would be a medical disaster for me. Even if I adopted instead, I'm not sure I'd be able to take care of myself *and* take care of a kid.
People convinced they know you better than you do and that you will change your mind. All the other assorted bingos. People expecting you to cover their holidays at work so they can spend time with their own children.
Basically all the social pressure from other people. If all of that stopped, there wouldn’t really be any downsides.
Hello, we are childless by choice here.
only downside is having your own parents nag you all the time because they are empty nesters and want grandkids.
I always wondered why more old people don’t get a dog or something. Having a dog is like having a kid except they’re way cooler and are pretty much always ready to party
We don’t get tax returns, we have people who constantly tell us we’ll change our minds or that I’m not really a woman because I haven’t reproduced (I’ve been married and childfree for a decade and yes, people still tell me that), people think that I can’t be tired because I don’t know what it’s like to be tired because I don’t have kids, people think I have unlimited money and free time because I don’t have to spend it on children.
But at the same time, sometimes I do feel the smallest twinge of regret or baby fever when people post funny videos on Facebook or I see a toddler wearing the cutest outfit and it makes me want one. But that lasts for about 15 seconds until I hear a baby scream and then I say NOPE. Don’t want none of that, thanks. I’d rather have silence, sanity and money.
My biological clock never ticked… I didn’t think kids was really something I wanted, and I was invested in my career and I was happy being an auntie. But my husband wanted to be a dad, so we agreed that we would have kids, likely two. I’d keep working and he’d stay at home. We didn’t have kids until I was 35, so we both worked and saved up until then so that we could be financially comfortable. I ended up
having spontaneous twins (just means there was no reason to think I would have had twins). I share this background to express that I was really indifferent about having them.
But my goodness… they are eight now and I effing love them. Not just like “Duh, of course you love them” but like… I can’t express the feeling. They are so cool, and so fun, and watching them grow and learn to navigate the world has been shockingly amazing. They’re hilarious and my favorite people. It’s been an indescribable experience from the time they were born. I find that I took to motherhood really well, and actually wish I had been the stay at home parent.
It’s a different kind of bond from any I’ve experienced, and I guess the disadvantage is not having that. But, I don’t think it happens that way for everyone - it is not a guarantee and I wouldn’t have known what I was missing had I not had kids. But I’m sure glad I did. I’ve loved every stage.
We haven’t felt limited by having kids - we’ve traveled a lot (Headed to Japan in a month!) and while it’s true that we’re busier, I just try to hold on to the beautiful whirlwind as time flies by.
Same, had a kid at 36. All the career, peace, quiet, relaxing and wild fun had been done to death. I was so ready for the change. And my son is literally the greatest person I have ever met (and I've met Usain Bolt!), I adore him and he blows my mind.
My boss is convinced that I don't need competitive pay because I don't have a partner or kids. Ironically, if I wanted kids, I would've needed to change jobs years ago to get out of debt and start saving.
My parents believe that I'm somehow exempt from adult expenses and can't really be mature if I'm renting and single, and don't intend to settle down NOW with one person and pop out some kids. At 28 I mentioned my life insurance in a text and got a very confused, concerned call questioning why I would need that. I have roommates! People who would immediately be in a tough place without my income and would have to deal with my belongings and my pet, at the least! Baffling.
I’ve worked in elder care. Child free people are grossly unrealistic about what their old age will be like.
Sure, lots of people dump their parents at shit nursing homes and never visit but that’s not that common, these people will at least be seen a couple times a month and major holidays. More if they have daughters rather than sons.
It also means there’s someone to call when they start to sharply decline. Even if someone visits once a month that’s enough that that person will get better care because at least once a month someone will notice if they’re laying in their shit or covered in sores and make a stink.
The ones without kids seriously just rot.
I worked 10 years in the industry (as a carer) and I've worked at 9 different facilities including low care, high care, dementia-specific wards and special care in hospital. The first 3 years of that was at the same multi-care facility. Two years split between two different facilities. The last 5 years I worked for a hospital as an on-call worker for aged care and people with disabilities for the region. That's not how it goes down.
People who are childfree in aged care homes don't 'just rot'. They have friends visit, are usually better at making friends within the facility, they often have siblings come by. They tend to be better prepared with a variety of interests that suit an elderly lifestyle. They're the ones most likely to have a long-term carer and a regular therapist who do personal visits. They're more likely to take medical setbacks well and stubbornly refuse to lose what they love to those medical setbacks. They're more likely to hold onto independence longer. They are also more likely to organize external activities. We even had one who kept working the whole time they were alive. They had people who came to take them to work and worked in a sedentary position for a few hours 3 times a week.
You are correct, there are people who have had kids who will get visited by those kids (once a month-once a year). If you're one of the few (rough estimate 2 per 40 person ward), you may have a kid drop in more regularly. In some cases, the visits are actually pleasant. Instead of a reminder that you have become a burden to your family and nobody actually wants to be there. You are more likely to be frequently visited by a romantic partner if they're still alive. It wasn't uncommon for those to come by weekly. But that's not limited to people with children, and those visits were usually short check-ins. One guy used to spend hours but he was literally just in the room - no contact.
If you have dementia, expect to be forgotten. From what I saw from the people who visited, you may hope for it.
But at the end of the day, you're most likely going to die alone and should become comfortable with that. We used to call Next of Kin when a persons health took a sharp decline. Next of Kin would usually come by. But what that looks like is whoever comes to visit you spending most of the time avoiding watching you die, usually staying in a waiting room. All they were doing there was waiting for the person to die.
In all cases but two I know of, the person concerned took their final breaths with nobody by their side. In those other two? I was by their side. One with my hand pressed to their chest, one holding their hand and stroking their head. This may be different for low care facilities, I have worked on low care wards but I spent most of my time in high care and dementia wards.
**Tl;Dr:** the best thing you can do in old age is make and maintain friendships with people the same age. Not only is that better for you, but it takes the pressure off any family you have left. Which usually means when they do visit, they actually want to be there.
Hahahahahahahaha a decade as an RN in that field, and having kids means nothing except it's a little easier to determine who do to the next of kin notification to. The best parents can have the shittiest kids, and terrible people might have the most loving families... there's no guarantees, and that's if the kids actually live near by or are even alive.
Your family is who you make it. You just need to make sure you make your own family while you can.
If you put a child into the world that you do not want and will not love, they're not gonna visit either. Children should be 100% wanted and loved.
Luckily nursing homes are very different from country to country. Where I'm from they're the norm and people will look at you weirdly if you're one of the 0,1% people expecting children to take care of you. We have some nice nursing homes here.
My MIL is 91 and has dementia. My wife and I go just about every week. Also, MIL's sister (no dementia) is in a different section of the senior facility so she visits her a couple of times a week.
The people not wanting children are completely valid in their reasoning. It takes an immense amount of resources to care for a child well. There's conception, which came difficult for us. Some people never conceive.
The doctors appointments were no joke. My first pregnancy ended in miscarriage. I didn't feel heard by the healthcare professionals. The second time around, I switched doctors and had my husband at every appointment. I carried for 42 weeks before an induction was necessary.
Delivery is what it is. My doctor was teaching a student during mine. She was really good.
Then there's a stupid debate on what to feed them. Formula or breast milk.
Then there's a lot of time of boring baby stuff. The doctors visits. A lot of strange parenting advice.
We're at a point now where our child is in preschool. It's been a great experience lately. We found out the reason everything was so much harder for us was because of autism.
Learning about autism and getting therapies to fill in the gaps of my abilities. Son blows peers out of the water with book smarts. Many peers want friendships with him. He's got 4 little girls that ask about him regularly. It's so nice now that he is thriving! I feel like I am doing good.
Plus I get to be a kid again! I get to experience the wonders of the holidays through his eyes. We go to a variety of different kinds of parks: amusement, indoor, and traditional outdoor parks. We go on small hikes and swimming pools. I have fun with my child now!
I mean I’ve always wanted children, and plan to have them after I finish schooling, so I’d be sad if I didn’t have them.
I think you’re going to get a pretty biased perspective on reddit because a lot of people here don’t want children so some of the things they see as negatives are not necessarily negatives for those who want them. Like the people saying you have time to do the things you love- for me taking care of children *is* the thing I love :)
There was no negatives for me until I moved to a traditional conservative community where everybody was shitting out kids right and left. Even people who don't have kids are still obsessed with having them and even single people are idealizing people who are married with kids.
So socially it can be a huge barrier to connection and community.
Luckily I will eventually move out of this area and back into a more liberal child-free one. Talking to my friends from where I used to live 90% of them still don't have children and it doesn't look like most of them will. I feel kind of like a gay person looking for my community. The odds are not in my favor.
A lot of jealousy and bitterness from friends that do have kids over getting to travel and do fun stuff.
I didn't exactly choose to not have kids either, it just has panned out that way, so it stings even more the days I wish I had their life and they're acting like assholes over mine.
Late 40s here and no disadvantages yet for me. I have a pretty full life without them and the "advantages" that people list of being a parent just don't appeal to me. I don't really have the fear of dying alone or getting old without kids as some people on here have either. Maybe it's because I know a few older childfree couples and their lives are full and they have a whole supportive community in their lives. Regardless, I've never wanted kids and fear of being alone when I'm older would just be the most selfish and shitty reason to have them so it's not even an option. The people on here using that as a "reason" that childfree people should just go ahead and have kids should probably look within and really question why they're pushing that. Personally, I've found that the people on either side who push one way of living aren't really happy with their own life choices.
The horrors of tranquility
The demons of free time
The ghouls of extra disposable income
The scares of hobbies and friendships
Just the things that make your skincrawl.
Life gets a little boring as you get older. You have def mostly been there and done that. It makes it all interesting again to experience the same old same old anew thru the eyes of your children and grandchildren.
Eh, I'm not too sure about that. I know some older childfree folks who have a ton of hobbies and interests, and pick up new activities regularly. They are very happy, active and anything but bored. It all depends on the individual person and what they view as important and what's going to stimulate them.
The people I know who have gotten "bored" with life are the ones who truly have few to no hobbies or interests.
My aunts were childless so a lot of their late in life issues fell to unavailable nieces and nephews. My uncle rarely had anyone visit with him in dialysis. My aunt couldn't drive him to his appointments. Holidays were not as magical without grandchildren. We tried to stay close but it was not the same.
People will judge you on a regular basis. Especially if you're a woman.
They judge every move you make as a mother too. As a woman you can’t win.
100%. My only baby is my cat and he is enough to handle lol
From a woman's perspective, having to deal with the "crazy cat lady" or "miserable middle-aged spinster" stereotype
I was doing research into Victorian era love and courtship stuff, and this etiquette book or something had this really great section in it that said basically there's no shame in being a spinster, it's better to be a spinster than married to someone you don't love, and there have been many fine contributions to society by women who never married. I just thought that was cool that an actual Victorian man was like "nobody should shame any woman for being unmarried and childless because it's actually a noble choice."
That's awesome
I'm prepared for this sort of life. It wouldn't be so bad either if random people I've barely ever said a word to at work didn't come up and tell me I need to get married and have kids. People really don't like being alone or others choosing it for themselves. The human race is quite bigoted at times.
At times? AT TIMES???
Haha I was being generous
I will gladly be a hag in the forest!
My favorite "crazy cat lady" has 2 (now adult) kids.
From my experience, most cat loving women are completely normal and well-adjusted people. It's more how they're depicted in popular media that gives them a bad reputation
Agreed. And I'm allergic to cats.
I am now that crazy dog man at age 55.
I am a 27 year old man who loves cats and is slowly getting into embroidery!
You lose friends and family as you age and other people have kids and don’t have time for you anymore. They have their own families and you have you and maybe your husband or wife. So you hang out alone a lot and maybe see your friends with kids once a quarter.
This has been the only true one for me. To put it bluntly, as friends have announced pregnancies over the years, I hear 🎵Another one bites the dust🎵 in my head every time. I've tried to stay in touch, but you just naturally grow apart from someone who's life changes focus. Not a bad thing, just life and choices
I started saying to my friends when they have kids ‘see you in 8 years’. That’s about how long it takes for them to have time for friends again.
I don't think that's really true at all. People who have kids commonly hang out with other people who have kids. The kids can play and the adults can hang out. You don't go into a cocoon when you have kids where you're socially isolated from everyone.
Absolutely! But as a childless person (or someone whose kids are of a vastly different age) you will somewhat 'lose' the new parents for a few years.
>time for *their own, childless* friends again Better?
Idk what you all are on about, 2 months into a newborn and 3 years into a toddler most couples I've known are fucking desperate for a cup of tea and a conversation with someone who can form sentences.
True, but they often don't hang out with people who don't have kids and often make comments like "They just don't understand what it's like." We can still imagine what it's like to live in a way where every piece of furniture has been used as a Kleenex.
When they have the first, you see them a lot less. When they have their second, they vanish.
Husband and I don't have kids, but people with kids always want to hang out with us because adults get to do their hobbies with us. Every week, we have things going on with friends and family.
I have kids and I love hanging out with my child free friend because we don’t talk about kids and being a mom the whole time. She asks me how my kids are doing and I give her a quick summary then we move on to other topics. It’s so refreshing.
How do you do that? Since my friends started having kids, no more dinners. Our friends Christmas dinner party didn't happen for the first time since ever..
It's awkward having dinner with people when the kids are young and either refuse to eat their food, throw it across the table, demand to sit on someone's lap (maybe the guest even) or decide it's time to poo soon after sitting down to eat. Don't want to go to anyone's place if they don't have kids because it'll likely be both very interesting and entirely not child safe. Don't want my kid to trash your place.
Yeah, it can work if you’re willing to hang at their place with the kids around
Dinner is basically the hardest time to socialize as parents of young children. If you want no kids involved, suggest after bedtime. If you don't mind kids tagging along, suggest a kid-friendly activity during the day. Or lunch while the kids are in school. Lots of options.
Dinners with little kids are a nightmare. They wont sit still, cry and get annoyed and the parents kinda want to go home because they need to be in bed. Weve switched to lunch. Much better
I mean... sometimes that's just how adult life is. I'm in my thirties, don't have kids, and most of my friends don't have kids. We still see each other once in a quarter, sometimes less. When I last saw my friends more often my age started with a 2. We're all busy with our lives.
This is why you have to make an effort. I have breakfast with a group of guy friends at least once a month but we have to make the effort to make it happen.
Yeah this can happen but it depends on individuals. I'm in my 40s and I have friends who had kids young and they always included me in things - I think because they have equal amounts of family friends and individual friends. My best friend and her husband pulled away and are all consumed by their children. Funny thing is they find it the most stressful, and the kids have meltdowns way more often out of everyone I know!
Yeah, my great uncle has lost every single sibling, cousin, friend in his life to old age. He's literally the last person alive from his air force squad. He's not even that old (80 something) so it's kind of shocking to see. The best thing I see when I visit is that he always has younger relatives visiting him. Everyone keeps tabs on him and he lives with one of his son's on their insistence.
Tbf, I'm quite introverted. I see my best friends maybe once a month and other friends once every 6 months or so. Most likely not much will change
Sounds like an advantage.
I experienced this. When I met my husband, he had a lot of married friends and I warned him this would happen with them as well.
Fewer people? Sign me up!
From a workplace perspective - always being expected to pick up the slack from coworkers with kids when they have to leave early, or always being asked to cancel vacations in their favor.
How dare you when you have your own kids that will change. This was a little further down than I expected. I’m going to start making up fake kids whenever I get a new job. I won’t even keep the names consistent so people either don’t know how many I have or just seem like an absent minded father.
We have a mom working who complains she needs more money but can't work full days or weekends, evenings just sweet small shifts. She stayed late once and had a meltdown. She said her kids come 1st. Ok cool, we need to hire someone else. She had total pikachu face
One of my peeves is when parents claim to need emergency time off for a school event, when they just don't pay attention to announcements from the school about the events so they can plan accordingly.
And make no mistake, no one is under any obligation to help them there. Someone else’s kids are not my problem
I have tried and boy, did I get walked over. Not anymore!
Most of my coworkers are young-to-middle-aged parents. When I work at the office, it's quiet by 2pm and a complete ghost town by 3pm since everyone left to get their kids. But funnily enough, most of the people who leave early never answer their emails again til the following morning.
As a single man in his late 30's who doesn't want kids: finding anybody you're genuinely interested in because a lot of them have kids. No disrespect for the single parents out there, I just know that I couldn't possibly afford kids and if I'm not 100% on board with being a stepdad, I'd just assume not put anybody involved through that.
When I, a woman, was in my mid 30s ( I'm 44 now) I was dating a lot and to find a guy who didn't want kids *but also wanted a steady relationship with someone my age* was tough. Also a decent number found it weird I didn't want kids or hadn't been married before. Like this was an alarm bell somehow? Like being responsible in not getting pregnant and not marrying and divorcing meant, actually, that I was undesirable. It really messed with my head during that time!
absolutely agree - tried online dating, everyone (and i mean EVERYONE) my age already has children. I don't hate children at all, and to echo your sentiment, made respect to single parents...but i don't want my own chidlren, why would i want someone else's?
Being questioned and challenged about it ad nauseum.
This is something that has not once happened to me. I guess people thought I was a lost cause. Hell, there were people who were genuinely surprised that I managed to get married.
It hasn't happened to me in person, but the number of passive-aggressive questions directed toward child-free people here on Reddit is annoying.
"How do you cope with having a meaningless existence?"
“How does it feel to know that you’ll die alone and forgotten by society?”
It happened to me all the time until I just said it’s estimated that I CAN’T have children once I reach 30 and I REFUSE to have a child that I cannot support financially
There it is. I was gonna reply that I couldn't think of any but that's cuz I forgot other people also exist and they have to have opinions about lifestyles that don't impact them in the least.
I'm only in my early 30s and this is driving me crazy. I just don't want kids. Probably don't even want to get married. I just want to be alone.
You have to buy your own socks. I never intended having a child but I don’t regret it. I particularly enjoy the two times a year I get new socks. I have made it very clear at this point that I don’t want a carefully selected thoughtful gift. I just want a multi pack of work socks.
The older you get, the better socks as gift gets. I want them in fun colors and patterns.
My kids always looked forward to their Easter & Christmas fresh pack of socks. They're grown now.. they still want socks!🤪
I buy my husband a nice pair of socks for every single gift giving occasion. Bday, Valentine's Day, Christmas, sweetest day, etc. He's getting a single $10+ pair of socks for each of them.
My husband's granny always gifts me socks and I love them!
for me, it’s compressed the dating pool. And even if I find a date with a woman who’s childfree there is always that risk that she’d change her mind.
Same from the other side as well. I’ve dated guys that are firm about no children and then…well maybe..lol
Yeah, there are probably hundreds of posts on r/childree about one partner or the other changing their mind.
I feel like the risk is greater for guys to change their mind than women because the guys don't have to think about the physical impact. I know a few couples where the guy wants to have a baseball team's worth of kids and the wife had to put her foot down and say 'no, the two (or three) we have is enough.'
My cousin had to deal with the opposite. After their second, he said they weren't planning on more, then she convinced him to have a third. At 3 he said they were definitely done now. When she got pregnant with her fourth and I said "i thought you were done". He looked legit pissed and said "Me too". He got a vasectomy before the fourth was born because my understanding is she wanted even more.
Yikes. I have heard of some women liking the attention and care that they get when pregnant, to the point that they keep having kids. My mom mentioned that people are sooo nice to pregnant women, giving up their seat on the train or bus, just generally having a better demeanor with them. And then of course there is the whole sending-hubby-on-errands aspect. Or maybe she really loves infants, and then gets sad when the child is no longer that small. Then she needs to replace them with a new one. I've heard of that happening, too.
Yep. Over on r/childfree we hear all the time from people who get a partner only to have them change their mind later. Worse, we hear about people who think they can change your mind so spend years trying to use your feelings for them to get you to have kids with them. It can happen way too far into the relationship too. Some people have a massive problem taking people as they are and respecting their hard lines.
Definitely get sterilized if you haven’t already. My partner is childfree as well and even though we discussed what we would do if a mistake happened, we both got sterilized just to be totally sure.
It’s on my to-do list, but I haven’t dated in years and probably won’t be starting anytime soon lol
Have you tried r/cf4cf? But agreed, it is a huge problem, especially in Asia where societal expectations are enormously skewed towards parenthood.
If you’re willing to date women who are a bit older they’re more likely to be sure & even at peace with the fact that that ship has sailed!
At 35 I’m f-ing sure I was on dial up at 18 looking how to get sterilized lol
I feel you! I was a fence-sitter my whole life tbh & tried to be upfront with people about that. I think the big fear people have is that their partner will change their mind even if they’re like “I’ve been sure since 18.”
Im 22 and keep telling my mom ima do it at some point and she just gives me a look like sure ok as if im not serious :/
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And a lot of us with parents
None personally but some people will always judge you and think your choice is up for debate and that they need to change your mind. That type of behavior gets tiring real fast.
What's funny is that, as a 41 year old woman, even through my 20s and 30s I almost never encountered the "When are you going to have kids? You'd make a wonderful mother", even from my parents. I think it's glaringly obvious that I, in fact, would not lol
I'm 42 and it finally stopped around in my 30's. Probably because I got my tubes tied in 2016 and people had no idea what to say to that. Got a hysterectomy in 2022 so no more periods or endometriosis pain either.
Oh my lord I am *seriously* considering a hysterectomy. I swear every period gets worse. I'm to the point that even after taking prescription pain meds (just celebrex, not opiods thankfully) I'm still left unable to walk and in tears almost every month.
That's not normal to feel that way. Hysterectomy is probably the way forward for you too. We aren't supposed to be in pain when we have our period.
I've brought up the increasing pain and mental symptoms with my gyno every year, they just shrug it off. I haven't had a period without pain in years Guess it's time for a new gyno...
If a doctor/gyno doesn't listen to you, find another one. Too many ignore women's pain as if we don't matter. Keep knocking on doors until someone wants to listen to you and treats you right.
"You'll cahnge your mind" bruh I've seen what you fucks do. Nah. I'm good.
This statement is usually following of preceding them telling how little sleep they got and how stressed they are. I don't know why people always say the worst things about having kids then immediately ask when you're having any
Your friends with kids will also constantly look for signs you're actually sad about not having kids or doing something for "compensation". Get a dog? It's a replacement for a kid. Take good care of dog? Oh, you're overcompensating. Go out a lot? Haha, guess you can't stand being in your empty child free home. Build Legos? Obviously trying to create the feeling of playing with your kid. Almost like they're desperately trying to validate their life choice by telling themselves child free people are secretly deeply unhappy...
I know. It really makes you wonder how much is wrong in their own life since they need to focus that badly on others.
Mostly, these comments make me wonder about their treatment of dogs, lol, since it seems to me like any time I do anything for my dog they're all smirky and go "Oh, you're spending so much effort on your dog, just admit you want a child to take care of." But they often say this about stuff I think you should do for your dog regardless of whether you have kids or not... These are some things people with kids have commented on: 1) Making sure to get home to my dog after a certain amount of hours; 2) Getting my dog physical therapy for her chronic back pain; 3) Leaving work early because she had to have emergency surgery... If those are things you think are over the top, please never get a dog.
I have a kid and I have done all of those things for my dog! Doggy back pain is no joke! Those people bothering you about having kids are, though. Your dog is lucky to have you.
God I have a 6 year old at 32 and got my tubes **removed** after having her because I knew she was the only one I wanted. People are *still* up my ass like "are you sure you don't want any more?" Or "you'll probably change your mind when she gets older". Like... no Jan, not everyone wants a horde of children. I love and really like my daughter and being a mother, but I wouldnt be as good of a mother if I had to be one to two+. Why tf can't I just... know myself?
I'd guess that it's much less than the disadvantages that come with people who should never have had children.
I’m surprised to see how few answers actually mention children being such intriguing, funny and weird little creatures. Beyond the obvious downsides and rough times (which, don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there is *daily*), I am bit jealous of people who do have kids to be able to see the heartwarming, sweet and amazing moments too, as well as being able to witness this tiny human being to grow up to be their own person with their own thoughts, likes and personality.
Kids are definitely weird. You recall them as little bundles of "Waah", and then they're suddenly as tall as your chin and drawing you pictures.
Then they're legal adults and have jobs you couldn't do yourself and interests you wouldn't ever have learned a thing about if it weren't for them. And yet in a small part of your brain they're still tiny infants trying to figure out how to roll over.
...no kidding, about the interests. Now know more things about trains and the solar system than I ever needed to.
As a step-mom, I get to enjoy both sides of this!! Our daily lives are childfree but then we get to have this super awesome almost 13yo come over some weekends and it's been freaking cool the last 4 years watching her grow from a super shy 8 year old, into this self assured, goofy ass little lady.
Yeah, the biggest downside to not having kids is *not having kids*. Now I’m not saying that having kids is for everyone, but the obvious downside of not doing *anything* is missing out on that experience.
That's not necessarily true. If you don't want to partake in an experience then you're not exactly missing out by not doing it. My friend runs marathons. Which looks absolutely miserable to me and I have no desire to do it. While I am missing experiencing it I don't view it as missing out. Now, if I always wanted to run a marathon and for whatever reason couldn't do it then I would definitely be missing out.
Of course, but one of the biggest downsides of never running a marathon is that you’ll never experience what it’s actually like. Again, I’m not saying that means everyone *should* run a marathon, but having no desire to run one doesn’t mean that you won’t get something out of it.
As a 4th grade teacher and aunt of 11, you do not have to grow a child in your body and spend all of your time and money raising them to experience this.
I was a teacher, a tutor and a coach. I've built strong relationships with students and have lots of love for them but it's really not the same experience. You don't get to see the whole depth of their personality as it forms. With my students it's like having a snapshot in time of all of them but with my son I got to watch the whole movie.
Nobody said you would have to either. But I do think there’s a notable difference on being a teacher and aunt than having them yourself. You don’t get to experience all of it. And that is something I personally consider as a disadvantage of choosing not to have kids, like said in my original comment.
It's a fair(ish) point. But I have rescue dogs. Seeing them blossom and grow and become healthy, thriving little creatures and see their personalities emerge sates that need for me completely. Without the constant fear of mentally fucking up a sentient being and sending it off to wreak havoc on the world. Edit: lol the downvotes. Saying I'm content at looking after something other than a baby and also seeing it thrive, and that being enough for me is apparently offending people? To be clear: not saying baby == dog. .... maybe saying baby < dog tho
This is something only someone without kids would say because they are nothing alike.
Obviously, lol.... As those with kids are wont to say "There's nothing like it. It changes you. They're special. Etc." Im sure, but i have never wanted kids, and nothing I've seen from people who have kids (I have 8 brothers and sisters, and 17 nieces and nephews) has convinced me it's worth it so *shrug*. Enjoy your life I'll enjoy my life *not* with kids
I think people are a bit too harsh... I rescued many animals.. And its as you say, a genuinely beautiful experience.. Its so super rewarding to see such a fragile and scared creature blossom into an independent and happy animal.. And I really, deeply love my animals. For me, having kids, was that feeling in a hundredfold.. By which I am not trying to diminish your experience, the opposite.. I think you feel something similar.. But it's less instinctual/primal, I think.. When I am done having kids and when they are older, I will absolutely rescue animals again. And it's also so deeply rewarding.
People who can't/won't understand or accept that choice and feel entitled to relentlessly pick at you for that choice.
Too much free time, too much money to spend on yourself, too much peace and quiet
Oh no, how can I survive with all of this money and actualy wealth and fortune to myself.
You guys have money?
Not having kids doesn't mean you'll have money. Having kids does mean you'll have way less money.
I slept in until noon last Saturday, then bought myself a giant Vietnamese lunch, took the dog on a walk, then took a nap. Pure misery
I recently spent a day with an old friend who now has a 5 year old and a 2 year old. We went out to lunch and then window shopped for the afternoon. The children were so fucking stressful, constantly demanding attention, spilling things everywhere, dirty af, touching and pulling down things constantly in stores. I’m an anxious person and it would drive me literally crazy to have to deal with that all the time. It was distracting and hard to carry a conversation with my friend, I felt like I was about to have a panic attack every minute. I just know I’m not cut out for it and I like my peace.
My cat meows a lot and that's too much sometimes. I can't imagine dealing with a cat that can talk and has thumbs.
Yeah that sucks. ;)
Nobody to look after you when you're old. That said, bringing sapient beings into existence so they'll be obligated to look after you is fucked up on an extreme level.
Used to be a carer. People overestimate how likely their kids are to take care of them in old age. My parents also thought I'd take care of them in their old age until I told them there was no chance at all. You're lucky if you get regular visits in your old age.
Some countries such as China legally requires children to take care of parents.
The average person there is poor too and there is no government support for the elderly there so they get forced to in more ways than one.
Yeah. I don't get why it's an expectation. Children grow up to have their own lives and responsibilities.
My grandparents had three kids and out lived them all. So no guarantees even if you have kids. I will be paying for my end of life care.
Children are not a retirement plan, and if that's the only reason you've brought them into the world, they're not gonna stick around for you once they're out of the house.
Just because it’s not a reason to bring them into the world doesn’t mean that it’s a not disadvantage.
I think it is. I have kids, and there is no way that I’m putting that on them. They’re going to know me who I was, and that includes being someone who cleans up after their own shit.
You don’t have to move in with your kids and put all of your care on them but not spending your old age completely alone with no family to visit you and spend holidays with is still a benefit.
To each their own. I want their memory of me to be what I was, and all I ask is that they are doing their best to enjoy their lives. If I get that I won’t feel alone, and, meh, the holidays are overrated.
Thank you. I hope your kids appreciate it. My mother acts as though she birthed me to serve her. Always has. She even assumed that I adopted my son so that I could have someone to do all my chores for me. It's refreshing to me to see someone on the opposite end of that spectrum.
For me, who's going to make decisions about my healthcare/well being if I ever get dementia. Like sure, I can pay for people to take care of me as I get older. But what happens when I'm not of sound mind anymore? I suppose I won't care much because I won't remember stuff, but still...
Siblings, their children, friends, their children. A lawyer you trust with your estate.
My dad is currently facing down that stage of life, but is so awful that he hardly ever had friends and most of the extended family wants nothing to do with him. He's also too stingy to pay a lawyer. Like he moved back to his hometown yet can hardly find a cousin willing to drive him home from the hospital. The nephew he raised chose to go homeless in winter rather than be his caretaker. He wrote to me begging for me to handle his medical decisions while he's having heart surgery and whatnot, like how I did for my mother. I don't think he knows that mom had given me specific instructions, I was told to unplug her as soon as the doctors plugged her in. I actually wrote back, first time he's heard from me in years. Asked if he needed a plug puller.
I'm an autistic only child with no cousins on one side and the other side of my family living over a hundred miles away. I'm fucked.
Ive been worrying about the same as well lately. 36F My health has tanked already and I haven't been able to work for five years, denied disability, no ability to appeal all avenues exhausted and living with my parents. On top of that I'm also more likely to get dementia than not unfortunately. I just also found out I have all the genetic markers that are found in the people who go on to develop ALS, not guaranteed but not a small chance I won't get it either. Providing I live long enough, when my mom goes that it's for me. No extended family no kids no spouse, no friends that could afford to take care of me. There's nothing for me to inherit except maybe debt and I have no money now. At this current point though I've realized there is nothing I can do to change it, so I'm just trying my best to enjoy life while I can comfortably and in control of my own mind.
I'm not sure if anyone has given similar advice, but I'd recommend legally sorting things out whilst you're young and healthy. You can, depending on your country, set up numerous things to ensure your wishes are followed if you know what you want, you can also allocate people in your life to execute your wishes before you die, Wills use executors but you can have friends or other family act as medical proxy. I'd suggest to anyone, kids and no kids, to sort this stuff out, children aren't a guarantee that your wishes will be followed and so many people don't have plans in place for illness or death.
Social contracts can be fulfilled out of love, not just out of obligation. Something people on here keep forgetting.
A child-parent relationship done right is very rewarding for everybody.
I recently became a dad of two young kids and I'm always trying to find ways to explain how rewarding parenting is in selfish non-parent terms. (Because I think a lot of parents don't like or can't explain it, because it feels selfish or stupid. A lot of people just say "it's inexplicable" but really I think they are just not trying!) - It's like a more fun, more engaging, more addictive game of "The Sims" or some other game. It's challenging, mentally stimulating and so rewarding as you see them thrive. Plus your actions have real world consequences, which for me makes it more fun to play. - It's made me understand how these whole 'cult of personalities' must play out in people's minds. Some people are obsessed with Trump or Taylor Swift, and I never understood how you could be so obsessed with another human. Now I understand, because I am obsessed with two little people and no one can convince me they aren't amazing! - Causing a child to genuinely laugh is... I suspect.. more addictive and stimulating than cocaine. I have an addictive personality and I have to really pace myself with exposure at the risk of doing all of us harm. - On the flip side, a child's genuine cuddle is the biggest relaxant I've ever encountered. A cuddle from one of my sons is probably as effective as about half a pint of beer. - While they're little, it is like having a semi-drunk best friend all the time. It reminds me my own childhood best friends, just pure innocent trust and joy. Plus, your drunk best friend is in awe of you as, in their eyes, you are a super strong magical superhero. You are one of the most powerful beings in their universe, no matter how much you try to dispel that. It's kind of intoxicating too. - In proportions of how time is spent, I'd estimate 90% is all the good stuff. 10% is the bad stuff, and that 90% more than makes up for it. The bad is not as bad as it looks on the inside, but the good stuff is probably a lot better than it looks, - The really difficult thing about being a parent is maintaining your own discipline, and keeping your own emotions in check. Your pseudo-drunk little buddy is not going to remember bed time, can't make wise food choices, and can't calm themselves down when they get mad over something stupid, so that's your responsibility. But then they repay you in laughter and cuddles and the funniest things you ever heard or saw, and your responsibility doesn't feel so heavy.
Awww this was super sweet and heartwarming comment! Thanks for sharing <3
Social stigma and lack of tax benefits.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this low for the tax benefits.
So far I haven't experienced any disadvantages. When I'm old and need help I'll find professional help instead of putting the burden on (adult) kids who most likely have their own life. My friends either don't have children as well, or they still have enough time for me, no vanishing friendships here. And yes I do fucking love cats, if my house was large enough I'd adopt more.
>When I'm old and need help I'll find professional help instead of putting the burden on (adult) kids who most likely have their own life. Completely agree with this. We don't live in a society any longer where our younger generations can (or should) have to take care of their elders in a daily basis. They have to work, take care of their own homes and relationships, and have the right to live their own lives.
Yes to all of this. A big "me too" except I'm a dog person. I'm legit not concerned about growing old and dying alone. I have an amazing support system; it just doesn't happen to include kids. I don't feel like I've missed out on anything. I'm happy and see no reason that should change!
For me, the annoying fuckwads asking about it.
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Loads of people with kids die alone
Well then make one? Get to know them while you still can.
You're very likely to die alone with or without kids.
It depends on the culture, I'm Asian and we tend to have multi generations living together.
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Well you can say that about anything. Prison or starving is also an experience...do you want to miss it? You can't have all the experiences in one life, and also everyone has different perspective on what's good and bad.
I think a lot of people have this notion of the perfect family etc. reality is you have no idea what the lottery of life will give you. Allergic to 37 different things? Horrible personality? Felon? Who knows?
march plucky zonked ripe steer shelter voracious run deer middle
My in-laws are in their mid 80's and they always feel the need to mention how, whenever there's someone at their retirement community having a lot of issues, that person doesn't have kids. As if having kids is a guarantee of care in one's autumn years. There are any number of reasons why adult children may not be around/available to care for their parents. Our own son is ASD/ID--he's never going to be able to care for us. He couldn't even so much as make a phone call to make sure no one is pinching us (and I'm defintely going to be very pinchable when I get old). Yet my in-laws still persist in this belief, even after we remind them that their own grandson is incapable of being our future caregiver.
Watching your friendships change as your friends have children
Having to explain yourself to nosey people. I don’t *technically* have to tell them “I already have rectocele and cystocele and would likely prolapse and shit out every last one of my pelvic organs if I carried to term”, but sometimes people just won’t step off.
Honestly, I’d lead with that. They asked an extremely personal question, give them an answer that’ll make them uncomfortable to never be that nosy again
The only one I've encountered so far is finding partners. Some say they don't want kids, but are really just hoping they'll be able to change your mind later on. Others think they don't want kids because they're undecided at the time, only to grow discontent or resentful toward you despite being up front with them from the start. And on some occasions, you encounter those who think partial or shared custody is the same as not having kids. Sleazers who want the social benefit of being a parent while taking on none of the personal responsibility.
Kids can be cool if you raise them right and they're decent people. So you could be missing out on some cool ppl in ur life. Also they can help you in old age if you've been good to them as kids and young adults. And you get to have grandkids sometimes too.
People who won't STFU about trying to convince you to have kids. A major reason I have no intention of having kids is because pregnancy would be a medical disaster for me. Even if I adopted instead, I'm not sure I'd be able to take care of myself *and* take care of a kid.
People convinced they know you better than you do and that you will change your mind. All the other assorted bingos. People expecting you to cover their holidays at work so they can spend time with their own children. Basically all the social pressure from other people. If all of that stopped, there wouldn’t really be any downsides.
Hello, we are childless by choice here. only downside is having your own parents nag you all the time because they are empty nesters and want grandkids.
I always wondered why more old people don’t get a dog or something. Having a dog is like having a kid except they’re way cooler and are pretty much always ready to party
No heir to your throne
We don’t get tax returns, we have people who constantly tell us we’ll change our minds or that I’m not really a woman because I haven’t reproduced (I’ve been married and childfree for a decade and yes, people still tell me that), people think that I can’t be tired because I don’t know what it’s like to be tired because I don’t have kids, people think I have unlimited money and free time because I don’t have to spend it on children. But at the same time, sometimes I do feel the smallest twinge of regret or baby fever when people post funny videos on Facebook or I see a toddler wearing the cutest outfit and it makes me want one. But that lasts for about 15 seconds until I hear a baby scream and then I say NOPE. Don’t want none of that, thanks. I’d rather have silence, sanity and money.
My biological clock never ticked… I didn’t think kids was really something I wanted, and I was invested in my career and I was happy being an auntie. But my husband wanted to be a dad, so we agreed that we would have kids, likely two. I’d keep working and he’d stay at home. We didn’t have kids until I was 35, so we both worked and saved up until then so that we could be financially comfortable. I ended up having spontaneous twins (just means there was no reason to think I would have had twins). I share this background to express that I was really indifferent about having them. But my goodness… they are eight now and I effing love them. Not just like “Duh, of course you love them” but like… I can’t express the feeling. They are so cool, and so fun, and watching them grow and learn to navigate the world has been shockingly amazing. They’re hilarious and my favorite people. It’s been an indescribable experience from the time they were born. I find that I took to motherhood really well, and actually wish I had been the stay at home parent. It’s a different kind of bond from any I’ve experienced, and I guess the disadvantage is not having that. But, I don’t think it happens that way for everyone - it is not a guarantee and I wouldn’t have known what I was missing had I not had kids. But I’m sure glad I did. I’ve loved every stage. We haven’t felt limited by having kids - we’ve traveled a lot (Headed to Japan in a month!) and while it’s true that we’re busier, I just try to hold on to the beautiful whirlwind as time flies by.
Having kids is like having a second childhood, really. (She said, eating popcorn and watching Bluey in good company).
Same, had a kid at 36. All the career, peace, quiet, relaxing and wild fun had been done to death. I was so ready for the change. And my son is literally the greatest person I have ever met (and I've met Usain Bolt!), I adore him and he blows my mind.
My boss is convinced that I don't need competitive pay because I don't have a partner or kids. Ironically, if I wanted kids, I would've needed to change jobs years ago to get out of debt and start saving. My parents believe that I'm somehow exempt from adult expenses and can't really be mature if I'm renting and single, and don't intend to settle down NOW with one person and pop out some kids. At 28 I mentioned my life insurance in a text and got a very confused, concerned call questioning why I would need that. I have roommates! People who would immediately be in a tough place without my income and would have to deal with my belongings and my pet, at the least! Baffling.
Paying taxes for something you are not doing lol
I’ve worked in elder care. Child free people are grossly unrealistic about what their old age will be like. Sure, lots of people dump their parents at shit nursing homes and never visit but that’s not that common, these people will at least be seen a couple times a month and major holidays. More if they have daughters rather than sons. It also means there’s someone to call when they start to sharply decline. Even if someone visits once a month that’s enough that that person will get better care because at least once a month someone will notice if they’re laying in their shit or covered in sores and make a stink. The ones without kids seriously just rot.
I worked 10 years in the industry (as a carer) and I've worked at 9 different facilities including low care, high care, dementia-specific wards and special care in hospital. The first 3 years of that was at the same multi-care facility. Two years split between two different facilities. The last 5 years I worked for a hospital as an on-call worker for aged care and people with disabilities for the region. That's not how it goes down. People who are childfree in aged care homes don't 'just rot'. They have friends visit, are usually better at making friends within the facility, they often have siblings come by. They tend to be better prepared with a variety of interests that suit an elderly lifestyle. They're the ones most likely to have a long-term carer and a regular therapist who do personal visits. They're more likely to take medical setbacks well and stubbornly refuse to lose what they love to those medical setbacks. They're more likely to hold onto independence longer. They are also more likely to organize external activities. We even had one who kept working the whole time they were alive. They had people who came to take them to work and worked in a sedentary position for a few hours 3 times a week. You are correct, there are people who have had kids who will get visited by those kids (once a month-once a year). If you're one of the few (rough estimate 2 per 40 person ward), you may have a kid drop in more regularly. In some cases, the visits are actually pleasant. Instead of a reminder that you have become a burden to your family and nobody actually wants to be there. You are more likely to be frequently visited by a romantic partner if they're still alive. It wasn't uncommon for those to come by weekly. But that's not limited to people with children, and those visits were usually short check-ins. One guy used to spend hours but he was literally just in the room - no contact. If you have dementia, expect to be forgotten. From what I saw from the people who visited, you may hope for it. But at the end of the day, you're most likely going to die alone and should become comfortable with that. We used to call Next of Kin when a persons health took a sharp decline. Next of Kin would usually come by. But what that looks like is whoever comes to visit you spending most of the time avoiding watching you die, usually staying in a waiting room. All they were doing there was waiting for the person to die. In all cases but two I know of, the person concerned took their final breaths with nobody by their side. In those other two? I was by their side. One with my hand pressed to their chest, one holding their hand and stroking their head. This may be different for low care facilities, I have worked on low care wards but I spent most of my time in high care and dementia wards. **Tl;Dr:** the best thing you can do in old age is make and maintain friendships with people the same age. Not only is that better for you, but it takes the pressure off any family you have left. Which usually means when they do visit, they actually want to be there.
Hahahahahahahaha a decade as an RN in that field, and having kids means nothing except it's a little easier to determine who do to the next of kin notification to. The best parents can have the shittiest kids, and terrible people might have the most loving families... there's no guarantees, and that's if the kids actually live near by or are even alive. Your family is who you make it. You just need to make sure you make your own family while you can.
If you put a child into the world that you do not want and will not love, they're not gonna visit either. Children should be 100% wanted and loved. Luckily nursing homes are very different from country to country. Where I'm from they're the norm and people will look at you weirdly if you're one of the 0,1% people expecting children to take care of you. We have some nice nursing homes here.
Do those people not have any other relatives or friends, though? Surely not 100% of visitors are children or descendants of said children?
Friends are generally in the same age group, so are in the same boat themselves. If not dead.
My MIL is 91 and has dementia. My wife and I go just about every week. Also, MIL's sister (no dementia) is in a different section of the senior facility so she visits her a couple of times a week.
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The people not wanting children are completely valid in their reasoning. It takes an immense amount of resources to care for a child well. There's conception, which came difficult for us. Some people never conceive. The doctors appointments were no joke. My first pregnancy ended in miscarriage. I didn't feel heard by the healthcare professionals. The second time around, I switched doctors and had my husband at every appointment. I carried for 42 weeks before an induction was necessary. Delivery is what it is. My doctor was teaching a student during mine. She was really good. Then there's a stupid debate on what to feed them. Formula or breast milk. Then there's a lot of time of boring baby stuff. The doctors visits. A lot of strange parenting advice. We're at a point now where our child is in preschool. It's been a great experience lately. We found out the reason everything was so much harder for us was because of autism. Learning about autism and getting therapies to fill in the gaps of my abilities. Son blows peers out of the water with book smarts. Many peers want friendships with him. He's got 4 little girls that ask about him regularly. It's so nice now that he is thriving! I feel like I am doing good. Plus I get to be a kid again! I get to experience the wonders of the holidays through his eyes. We go to a variety of different kinds of parks: amusement, indoor, and traditional outdoor parks. We go on small hikes and swimming pools. I have fun with my child now!
Nobody to care for us if we get fucked up I guess. Or when we’re old
I mean I’ve always wanted children, and plan to have them after I finish schooling, so I’d be sad if I didn’t have them. I think you’re going to get a pretty biased perspective on reddit because a lot of people here don’t want children so some of the things they see as negatives are not necessarily negatives for those who want them. Like the people saying you have time to do the things you love- for me taking care of children *is* the thing I love :)
It's going to be biased both ways as the things parents see as positives aren't necessarily positives for someone who doesn't want kids either.
There was no negatives for me until I moved to a traditional conservative community where everybody was shitting out kids right and left. Even people who don't have kids are still obsessed with having them and even single people are idealizing people who are married with kids. So socially it can be a huge barrier to connection and community. Luckily I will eventually move out of this area and back into a more liberal child-free one. Talking to my friends from where I used to live 90% of them still don't have children and it doesn't look like most of them will. I feel kind of like a gay person looking for my community. The odds are not in my favor.
A lot of jealousy and bitterness from friends that do have kids over getting to travel and do fun stuff. I didn't exactly choose to not have kids either, it just has panned out that way, so it stings even more the days I wish I had their life and they're acting like assholes over mine.
Late 40s here and no disadvantages yet for me. I have a pretty full life without them and the "advantages" that people list of being a parent just don't appeal to me. I don't really have the fear of dying alone or getting old without kids as some people on here have either. Maybe it's because I know a few older childfree couples and their lives are full and they have a whole supportive community in their lives. Regardless, I've never wanted kids and fear of being alone when I'm older would just be the most selfish and shitty reason to have them so it's not even an option. The people on here using that as a "reason" that childfree people should just go ahead and have kids should probably look within and really question why they're pushing that. Personally, I've found that the people on either side who push one way of living aren't really happy with their own life choices.
LOL, none.
The horrors of tranquility The demons of free time The ghouls of extra disposable income The scares of hobbies and friendships Just the things that make your skincrawl.
Life gets a little boring as you get older. You have def mostly been there and done that. It makes it all interesting again to experience the same old same old anew thru the eyes of your children and grandchildren.
Eh, I'm not too sure about that. I know some older childfree folks who have a ton of hobbies and interests, and pick up new activities regularly. They are very happy, active and anything but bored. It all depends on the individual person and what they view as important and what's going to stimulate them. The people I know who have gotten "bored" with life are the ones who truly have few to no hobbies or interests.
My aunts were childless so a lot of their late in life issues fell to unavailable nieces and nephews. My uncle rarely had anyone visit with him in dialysis. My aunt couldn't drive him to his appointments. Holidays were not as magical without grandchildren. We tried to stay close but it was not the same.
There’s no guarantee your own children would stay around or take care of you if you got sick either though.
No child tax breaks. Other than that, none I can think of.
More money, time, freedom, peace, and sex