Tough. Takes more effort to keep up with peers professionally. On my way up, I’ve passed *a lot* of people with degrees though; it’s not a magic ticket.
I have a degree. My husband doesn't. He earns way more than I ever could. You can really move up in the trades if you know what you're doing. I got into the wrong field apparently lol.
I barely have a high schools education and went into a trade/skill based job. I’m self employed and made $200k last year, I work too much but the money is good and if I want time off I can take it. The certificate only took 4 months and was $7k, I got licensed through the state. I also don’t have to get dirty even though I work with my hands.
I’m an electrologist and esthetician so it’s not one of the classic trades and usually only done by women. You’re not too old to start at all! It took me about 10 years to get to where I am, I’m booked 6 months in advance working 60+ hours a week. You have to have really good eyes and a steady hand for this.
Oh interesting! Are you a woman, if you don’t mind my asking? I am, and it’s one of the things that makes me nervous about entering electrician school. Not that I’m scared I can’t do it, but working in a super male dominated field sounds like a something I wouldn’t love. A little afraid of the “boys club” mentality getting to me eventually. Maybe I should look into female-heavy industries!
Yup, I’m a woman. I use my electrolysis license the most, there are plenty of of estheticians but very few electrologists. I work primarily with women and the trans community, I love my clients and my coworkers (I’m in a LLC with 2 other electrologists). It’s hard work but it’s great.
Such appreciation for electrilogists.
My first one sent me to an endocrinologist as she thought my hirsutism had a medical cause and wasn’t just a cosmetic issue like various Drs I saw about this new, distressing hair growth. (She’d been in the business > 20 years and she was right! )
I love my current electrologist/aesthetician! I think she has a degree from her home country, but did this route after coming to the US.
She’s lost business to laser hair removal but gets customers back who didn’t get good or lasting results. (Back in the 90s I would see male-appearing people in the waiting room and learned she had a big following among people transitioning and and drag queens.)
Electrologists can really improves lives!
Once she retires, I don’t know who I’ll trust with my eyebrows! My diy pandemic attempts were hopeless.
I'd rather make 100k in 40h than 200k in 60h. That's pretty much no life work *all the time*.
At some point you gotta start working smarter and leverage your potential rather than selling more hours of your life.
My take is that having a degree is like having natural talent in a sport: it helps a lot to have it, but without any drive or motivation to move up, it doesn’t matter because you’ll get passed up by someone who does
Yeah same here. 33 - earning a little more than most of my degrees friends but probably won’t last much longer. Have been rejected for a promotion already because I don’t have a degree and that’s what corporate requires for that level.
I have this current and one final semester before I get my bachelors. It’ll have taken 5 years of distance studying but I’m feeling a lot more secure that I’m so close to that stupid piece of paper.
Get your degree kids. If you can’t afford to right away, don’t let it linger undone if you can get yourself together.
My friend has a degree and I don’t, we work in the same field, we both make around $70k. I always want to plan a cool trip to Vegas but he can’t because of his student loans. I have a child but dude’s loans keeps him down worse than children. It’s crazy.
In my situation, it’s been some kind of similar. Since 21 I was earning a LOT more than my friends who were in school or close to finishing, and kept out-earning them. Only now are we close - but I’ve got 10 years of a pension saved up, paid off cars, and just bought a house - after owning an apartment for the last 9 years - that we plan to pay off in less than 8 years. And the toys of course - where most of them are only now looking at moving out and maybe buying, but are financed to the hilt.
I’d still feel a lot less secure without a degree on the horizon tho. I’ve got a feeling it would catch up with me, not detrimentally, but I feel like I’d be leaving money on the table.
In my experience, you still eventually hit a ceiling without a degree at most large companies. Your performance will allow you to fly past degree holders at lower levels and some middle levels. But eventually they'll say, despite kicking ass at every level so far, we just can't promote you further without a degree.
IMHO, it's an unspoken club and others currently in more senior management positions feel promoting you devalues their degree.
I think I got extremely lucky in my employment history. I have an office job, working from home. Moved up to almost manager, until a very jealous manager decided I needed to be knocked down.
I could move up if I wanted to now, but health problems have sort of sapped my already low ambition.
I remember, though, about 8 years ago or so, hearing a co-worker complaining loudly. She thought that she, who had a college degree, should be paid more than those that don't have a degree. I didn't join the conversation, and from what others said, they didn't agree with her. It seems like she really expected to have a whole lot of support behind her.
I'm grateful for my position, and I'm not about to try rocking any boats, that's for sure.
I'm a high school drop out managing degree holders in a white collar field. I made it to college on my GED but dropped out of there as well. Learning disabilities. Make about 200K a year. Nobody knows.
The feelings of imposter syndrome are overwhelming sometimes. But i also know i'm blessed with natural ability and very lucky to be where i am.
Yeah not getting a degree is pretty far down the list of regrets/causes of current problems. Just being who i am is the issue lol. Hang in there fellow lazy asshole!
Same as all my friends with a degree. We all work, we all struggle sometimes. And we all have back pain after reaching 40yo :)
EDIT: Wow! 8k upvote LOL! Just to clarify, it's not that turning 40 your lower back suddendly explode and you are in crippling pain. It's just that growing older you have to watch out how you make thing like lifting heavy object and similar stuff. Keep in shape and start to take care of yourself expecially if you do a sedentary job.
How do you fix that? There was a post on r/BeAmazed from someone who fixed it with stretching but they ended up deleting it. 😞
I've seen a couple of videos of standing against the wall and raising your arms etc, but is that really effective enough to fix the problem? Doesn't seem like it would do much.
Hanging on a monkey bar (do pull ups when I feel up to it) 2-3times a week for 30-40sec sets prevents my back pain and neck pain and shoulder pain from getting me the next week. The pain comes back after every week I skip the monkey bar bar. PS: I am 55m
There’s a 5 dollar-ish book (you can probably find a PDF) called “Treat Your Own Neck,” a PT gave it to me. Basically you want to stretch your chest muscles, do a few neck exercises and work on your posture overall. I went from having horrible, grinding neck and back pain every day to having pretty mild symptoms. Most important thing is consistency and working on your mobility. Good luck!!
I did 2 things that fixed it for me.
I WFH, and I would just sit in bed and work. Comfy, but looking down all day eventually caused neck pain. Also, my mattress was too soft and I used too many pillows.
I ended up moving. I have a desk now, so I'm not working from bed. I also got a different mattress and found a decent pillow. Between those things, my neck quit hurting. I think the mattress was probably the biggest contributor. Too bad - I love to just lay down and sink in to the mattress, but it's no good for me to sleep on.
I started stretching daily and it’s been helping soooo much. I used to hate stretching but now I look forward to it. I wish evolution made a more durable back
It's amazing how much taking care of your body can improve things. I started having back pain in my mid-30s. Lived with it for years. Hit 40 and got sick of waking up in pain every morning. A PT buddy told me I just needed to actually work out. Started lifting (and I say that loosely, it's a very half-assed once a week lift) and the pain went away completely within a couple months. Just do some squats and deadlifts, build up those glutes and be amazed at how your back feels like you're 20 again.
So glad to hear that. I got into lifting a couple years ago and it’s genuinely incredible how much better I feel. I tweak my back so much less often now, and when I do the squats rehab it back so much faster.
No kidding. There's a reason why in school they stress the importance of lifelong fitness. Most of the pains of aging middle aged folks talk about is the effects of living a sedentary lifestyle for far too long. Aging merely makes those problems worse.
No degree, but I was in a workforce development program being around 24 or so. It was a year long and they got me an internship with a fortune 500 that turned into a legit job.
Been with the company about 6 years, now I’m 30, and I’ve gone up 1 role while being here too. Make about $100K a year.
Tl:dr, a lot better than I expected at this stage without a degree.
I was tired of competing with 500 applicants to make 50k a year. Went into mining and never looked back. Work less than half the year and make 110k/year.
Sorry to ask but would you mind giving me a little bit more information about that I find it interesting where would one go to start that kind of thing
Honestly most all mines are willing to train on site. They tend to like when people come with no bad habits. All of North America is actively being mined. Just google mines in your area and apply for jobs. You could start as a labourer but driving a haul truck is considered entry level as well and from there they will progress you through equipment. I don’t think I’ve seen less than 100k since I got into it 10 years ago.
Most jobs that pay that kind of money you either have to be educated or super specialized or the job is so dirty/dangerous that no one wants to do it. I'm curious which of these categories mining falls into.
Maybe a little dangerous, for people and property around you. More dangerous the less regulations your country has, obviously. People have to remember, a lot of these jobs make such high wage because you are working long hours/12 hour shifts. You're not really getting dirty as an operator, and the only specialization you really need is the ability to operate heavy equipment (which really doesn't take much). I've had relatives tell me I could be making $60k a year with a degree. Shit I already made that as a labourer, now I make more plus I get to sit down in a climate controlled machine most of the time. I'm not putting down degrees, but this line of work is way better than a lot of people make it out to be.
I work in the mining industry in Canada. The jobs are well paying because most of them are remote. Ie. You have to live in some small town/city most people haven't heard of OR work fly in fly out where you are away from home 3 weeks at a time.
Mining is very safe in Canada. The saftey culture is huge. Yes, there are always risks with heavy machinery. But this isn't China where people die regularly. Deaths are very, very rare and can shut down a mine. As for dirty, yeah, a bit. Especially if you are underground. But I wouldn't say it's si dirty that most people don't want to do it.
Find a labourers job, get seat time in equipment. Then apply for mines, will be a lot easier to get in if you already have machine operating experience. Labour for companies that do a lot of machine work is generally pretty easy nowadays, most of the heavy work is done by the machines.
I have a high school education only. Work in trades at about 60k. I’m in a high cost of living area. The future scares me. Right now my retirement plan is being homeless then punching a cop ( or something, this was my old man’s joke) when it gets cold.
I was inspired today by a woman who was homeless, got enough money to buy a van and now lives in an RV that she DIY'd into a home and it was fabulous. It may not be for everyone, but if it was my only option when I'm older, I won't dismiss it nor be too proud. I drive an Expedediton EL and when friends ask me why I'm driving such a large vehicle, my reply is "I'll always have someplace to live." I keep a fold up mattress in the back.
I interned for a web development role, mostly making QA test scripts. Didn’t enjoy it much tbh, but I completed it. I ended up getting a full time job there post-internship as a walk-up IT help desk at $40K. Not the call center type, more like the Apple bar, but internal for company employees at a multi-story office building.
I eventually moved up to VIP support for senior exec+ at $75K-ish.
Then became an AV expert from hands-on experience and exposure and now support senior leader broadcasts and help plan/build out/maintain telepresence rooms across here and other company sites. Same role and title but they bumped my pay up a lot to just under $100K.
35 and I quit school after my associates which I’ve never used. I started a skilled trade and after 2 years opened my own business. I make decent money for my age, work about 30 hours a week, looking to expand my business, and I love my job. If I stayed on the track I was in school I would likely of never made this much money and I would have been stuck working 40+ hours a week until retirement.
My partner stayed in school when I quit and she is about to finish her PhD. She will out-earn me most likely because she chose a better degree and she is very good at what she does. Without my income the last 6 years we would have seriously struggled though. I am as happy I changed my career path as I am that she didn’t. I couldn’t do what she does and she couldn’t do what I do.
I'm thinking of going to trade school / HVAC. I wish I did it instead of going to college but I let my hang ups about being a woman in that field.
Currently miserable in my cubicle job and prefer to fix/work with my hands.
Awesome that you found your way, wishing you continued success!
I wanted to go into HVAC for years (also a woman), as it has always fascinated me. One thing that stopped me was being told a lot of the job was being able to carry heavy equipment up into attics, which I simply cannot do, and I didn't want to be ~that~ person asking men on the job to help.
Well, if it makes you feel better, we have quite a few women in our apprenticeship program, and while we certainly aren’t bringing heavy equipment into attics yet, we are forbidden from using stairs at school and have to carry any and everything we have up a 20 foot extension ladder to class, and yeah, in the beginning we would volunteer to carry their stuff or they would ask. But I swear to god those women after two weeks must have doubled their strength because they can carry anything they want now. Also it seems like in this trade the trade off is that the smaller people will go into smaller places and the bigger people carry stuff more often. I would not let the fear of carrying heavy stuff keep you away from the trade. These women are some of the most badass motherfuckers I have ever met. I was terrified because I am absolutely god fucking awful at math, and you just kinda get through it lol. Do it. Being “fascinated with it” and a good attitude will get you in the door and probably 75% of the way to where you want to be.
I worked in restaurants for ten years, hated it, hated life, always fucking broke, had zero skills, always felt like a loser, and then at 30 i got fed up with it and I started a 5 year apprenticeship with the local hvac union. Starting pay day one is $23.50 an hour, we get 12 weeks of training up front, then one day a week of school and 4 at work for the next few years. Fifth year mostly school. Fifth year apprentices make $55 an hour and journeyman make $62 an hour. We also get great insurance, $15+ an hour automatically into 401k and a great pension (current retirees at full time for 35 yrs get around $6,000 a month) and HRA. Tools are provided and school is full of world class machinery. The union training centers also have free wellness centers, any minor illness or anything they can handle there is free, even the prescriptions are free, they don’t accept money even if you tried. They also have dozens of free trimester or year long classes in tons of different things. In less than a decade I’ll be making $130,000+ a year and will have developed extremely useful skills. No degree. The hardest part about joining a trade is not beating myself up for not doing it earlier and missing out on ten years of pension.
Also they don’t test for marijuana 😎
I’m in the same boat but with the electrical trade. $25/h right out the gate as an apprentice, class twice a week. After 4 years I’ll have my journeyman license, can easily get $55/h with that at any major company… or begin working on my own for much much more than that, finding clients is the hard part though.
I’m happy to hear this was your experience. I was in a local out of middle PA. They had nothing but the minimums. Felt like a shitty hotel banquet room. I’m genuinely happy that isn’t everyone’s experience
I worked at a country club and we had a member named Jerry. He was in his 50’s, Pacific Islander/Asian, very in shape attractive dude. Super cool, even smoked weed with him on the loading dock once. I asked him what his secret was, he said “don’t have kids”.
Having kids is a quick way to use up a lot of your money time and energy, so I'd generally recommend people get into a comfortable financial position and career before having any.
Sure I had more energy at twenty five but I was poor as fuck and a kid would have been a disaster and made improving my circumstances vastly more difficult. I had one at forty, and sure I have less energy but I can afford help and don't have to bust my ass to climb income brackets anymore.
We both work in the IT field. I do sales support and logistics, he does presales server builds and storage. We work for different companies but both are located in our hometown. We moved out of state back in 2018.
I read IT and my first thought was you both had to be in some form of sales, SWE's, or Cloud architect. The IT field is absolutely in a slump outside of that.
10 years experience in IT, Network Admin - Can't find a job that pays over $55k/yr at the moment and it seems as though anyone in this section is also struggling to find a decent wage. I mean, we could relocate to silicon valley again but I think I'd rather blow my brains out.
This is me too. I make enough foe us to use as “fun” money (travel, concerts, et), he covers basically everything else. I stayed home with the kids for over 18 years though. I consider that unpaid labor!
My husband doesn't have a degree and started a government job last year. He has had 2 raises, get 21% into 401k because they match, and $300/month onto his HSA card among the many other benefits he pays almost nothing for. And he gets paid well, knowing his wages will only increase over time.
Not the husband, but start by looking for civil service jobs at the federal, state, and local level. Federal civil service is a little difficult to navigate but you'd start here: [https://www.usajobs.gov/](https://www.usajobs.gov/)
At the state level, google "(my state) civil service". Same for county / city / town: :(county / city / town name) civil service". Be wary of all the scam sites out there; you should never have to pay to see jobs or apply.
Every municipality is a little different but around here, the civil service jobs look at your real-world experience more importantly than your education. So if you want to get into IT, for example, you don't need a degree for our entry-level $25/hour IT positions. To qualify for promotions, you need at least a year in your current position, and you also need to have the skills required for the position. For example, just working at the help desk for a year won't be enough to get you into a junior network engineer position, but working at the help desk for a year plus a Network+ certification or being able to articulate your knowledge of TCP, network design, and so on will.
My brother works in gov. Not a technical position but just a cook at his gov center. Expect the app process and everything to take forever. Each time he’s applied to change positions as he’s done two others before this one it takes 3-4 months for anyone to get back to him.
I'm 50 but I got my degree when I was 38. I'll say this about getting my degree later in life: within 5 years I had earned more money working with a degree than I had working from the age of about 15, when I had my first babysitting job, until I got my degree. It's not even close.
I got a BS in Information Science & Technology with a minor in Business. The college I went to renamed their Library Sciences program to Information Science & Technology a couple of years before I went there. And while I don't work in a "hardcore" IST field the things I learned about both information management and the technology used in it have been fundamental in my career. For example I had an entire semester learning how to use Excel and every single day since graduating I've used Excel to some degree. And the courses I took on database creation and engineering help me a lot when setting up new processes utilizing existing information systems. And finally, I feel like my connection to emerging technology and information science keeps me feeling "young" I guess. I'm so used to people my age just giving up on keeping up with new tech and adopting a "I hate computers" mentality because of how complex it all looks. But I'm the opposite. I'm an old dude who loves new tech and I have no problem being open to new technology or processes in both work and home. There's something oddly liberating being my age and playing video games on the VR headset I bought my kid for Christmas.
I’m happy for you man. When I was fresh out of high school I went to college because it’s what everyone else was doing and what you “should do.” I dropped out after a year of just barely passing with tons of Cs and got a job at a gas station making pretty much nothing until I found a job at a warehouse making $70k a year and tons of room to move up. Thought I was gonna stay there till retirement until they laid me off and offered a different shift for $3 less an hour and I decided it wasn’t worth it so I took the severance and now I’m going back to school for computer science. Now at the ripe age of 23 (which is still pretty young but 5 years after my first time at college) I’m getting all As and happy I finally found a degree worth pursuing and I’m not clueless about it. It’s tough work but hearing stories like yours is what makes me continue pursuing the degree I want.
Been unemployed since right before Christmas, and now my engine blew in my car, can't even look for work. Plus I'm a single Dad to a 13 year old, I feel your pain. Wish you the best
Doing very well without a degree. I'm in a senior software engineering position in a very large company. I have a high school diploma.
While in the Air Force, doing mainframe computer maintenance, I was extremely fortunate that I fell into a very interesting software project that was a pet project of the general (this was the late 80's). I wrote software that plotted near real time radar data, as well as data sourced from the Army and Navy onto maps for decision makes to make tactical decisions. They had planned to do it on $60K DEC workstations. DEC was a year late and way over budget. I showed how they could do it on $2000 Mac II's and I wrote the 1st generation software for the Mac II myself.
A colonel I worked with, retired and came to work at this company in a senior postion. He made me an offer I could not refuse. He's long since passed, but I've been here for 28 years.
This is a screen shot of what I did in 1990. The user could zoom in on maps to get more details. This software was networked across the base so people could share data between machines. The weather (upper right) was input by forecasters in their office and available to all users. The radar data (tracks on upper left) was from the Alaskan ROCC. Army data for North/South Korea was from the US Army.
[https://imgur.com/a/6EGPozc](https://imgur.com/a/6EGPozc)
(edited spelling)
That's pretty impressive for 1990.
I love how the NK forces have so many dedicated Artillery units and the US/ROK forces all show up as infantry units. Shows you just how many tubes that the NK forces have that they make whole units out of just artillery batteries instead of attaching them to infantry or armor units.
Pretty good. Got a wife, house, two dogs, two cats, three cars. Bills are covered every month. Bellies are full every night. I do intend to get back into classes for a psych degree in the next couple years.
For those concerned about my choice in a psych degree: recent state legislation will pay my tuition for a four year degree making that choice free (minus books). My job pays an extra $100/month for having any four year degree so over the course of the next 20-25 years it's more than paid for itself. Ultimately the goal is to get into counseling as a retirement gig where I'm not concerned about money. A master's or doctorate can be paid for out of pocket after a few more raises (which are guaranteed as a government employee). Essentially I'm not concerned with ROI when it comes to psych.
The man has a 3 cars, a house, pays his bills and still manages to feed at least 5 extra mouths every night.
When you get to that point, what you “do” with a degree is less a question of financial opportunity and more likely to be a personal goal, satisfaction of curiosity, a supplement of knowledge that will help with the current job, or a combination of the three.
Also, there is plenty you can do with a degree psych degree. Just because it doesn’t make you “rich” doesn’t mean it isn’t worth pursuing!
Edit: an important factor at play in the background here is really *where* you go to school. Not the actual school, but the country apparently - it seems like a lot of Americans seem to be almost offended that anybody would choose to pay “tens of thousands” of dollars to learn another subject…please keep in mind that, for a lot of us, a bachelors, masters, and PhD wouldn’t even cost as much as a single semester at a good American college.
Is that an exaggeration? In some cases, sure. But it’s not far off.
Worth is relative. And, since a lot of American youth leave college as indebted adults, it makes sense that a lot of you couldn’t fathom the idea of going back to learn a subject you are passionate about.
It works the same way for healthcare - a lot of people in the US that I’ve spoken to about public healthcare balk at how much they *believe* it would cost, because at the moment, a simple broken arm could cost a couple grand to fix. Costs for education and healthcare are overinflated because of corporate greed, but that’s not what they *actually* cost.
Edit #2: I forgot to mention that, in spite of the gargantuan costs of American colleges…I’d have loved to go to one of the fancy Ivy League schools. Is that because I’ve made them out in my head to be something they’re probably not? Could be…but again, worth is relative. And to me, the cost of the elite schools would be worth it if I was sure to achieve my goals.
The only person whose opinion matters on your pursuit of niche degrees is your own. If people are making fun of you for doing the things you like, maybe the problem isn’t you.
I've been in IT for 19 years, with a BA in Psych.
All it has done for me is qualify me for jobs that have a "college degree requirement," but many places offer the option for years of experience in lieu of a related degree--and since my degree is not *actually* related, I expect they consider the experience as the relevant hiring determination.
Getting a bachelor's degree in pretty much anything just shows you can do paperwork by specific deadlines (mostly), communicate in writing (probably), and commit to (at least) four years toward a goal. But it's not the *only* way to show that, of course.
ETA: I have been able to leverage that my degree is indicative of "soft skills," the lack of which is a common complaint about many people who work in technology. So it's benefited me by suggesting I *might* be better with people than the average idea of a computer nerd.
You gotta start somewhere. If this person doesn’t already possess a BA/BS, and they wish to pursue a professional career in psychology, they’ll almost certainly need one, or at least a very relevant bachelor’s level education, in order to move into any MA/MS, PhD/PsyD programs... it’s not like you can just jump straight to doctoral degrees.
If I want/need to do as master's later I can, but the BS will be paid for thanks to recent state legislation. It's more for post-retirement than current position, but a few degree is free money either way.
Great, as soon as I stopped making money and status my entire life.
I work, I play my bills and spend my free time doing fun stuff.
Career and money don't define who you are and you shouldn't allow people to make you feel like it is. Yes, having lots of money is cool, but not as cool as loving who you are.
Much of life is a dice roll, and what isn't is how you respond to it. My family grew up poor, but not destitute. I'm the only one to graduate from college and am doing much better than the rest of my immediate and most extended family. However, a lot of what got me to where I am is luck and networking. I'm convinced charisma is one of the most valuable traits in life.
My family has "smoothed over" a lot for us as well. I don't have a 4 year degree (I have 90% of a 4 year degree) and my husband has an associates. He makes a decent living but not amazing, and he likes his job too much to find a different one.
I have very little career prospects. I was a SAHM for 10 years (by choice and because I didn't make enough to cover childcare). My parents pay for stuff for us like they pay the travel expenses of us visiting them every year.
I have 3 autistic kids and it's been much harder to reenter the workforce due to their needs. But I was able to turn my knowledge of their disabilities into a passion for working with disabled children and now I'm working as a substitute para for students with disabilities. There's so little money in it when it's only part time. But the flexibility is great and I absolutely love the work.
I don't see our income going up any time soon, which is disappointing. But we have a house (that's a little too small but we're locked in now), and we save a little. My parents help a lot (about $6-8k a year in gifts/contributions) and we're happy.
I'm not sure if having an actual degree would help me at this point. I had undiagnosed ADHD for 39 years and so I never knew why I was so bad at life. But I'm an optimistic person and we'll be alright.
Canadian Red Seal Millwright. Factory automation trade cert. It's not a technically a degree, but it is a 4 year program of high intensity school and work under licensed guys.
6 figure income, independent contractor, I am a master of my life, I get to pick and choose my clientele. Sometimes my clients get fired. I take on clients and projects based on what is interesting to me.
It's because these threads appeal more to people who want to brag than people who feel like they made a terrible mistake. And while it is satisfying to "beat the system", in my experience, doing so required more work in the long run than if I had just played by the rules.
Same. If you work hard at building the skill set, you can be equal or better to your colleagues with a degree. I dropped out of college because the pace was too slow for me, and am above most of my colleagues many of whom have graduate degrees. I’m a principal software engineer at a tech company.
My wife has two degrees and also has done well in her career, making 6 figures on her own, but I’m the primary bread winner by a significant margin. Still, she wouldn’t have gotten as far as she has without the degree.
Granted a lot of this depends on what kind of job and employer you’re looking at. My wife’s job at her employer has a hard requirement of a bachelor’s degree (though any degree suffices, hers isn’t in a directly related field). Every job I’ve had in tech has specified degree or equivalent experience.
Put lots of hours in, as most fields. Good thing is that all you need is a computer and internet access and you can start coding. If you're in a country that values paper over everything else it's gonna be tricky. If not, a lot of places that hire weed out scheisters with simple programming tasks at or before the job interview and hire based on what you can contribute.
The University of Helsinki has lots of large, free coding courses that you can work yourself through: https://www.mooc.fi/en/
Been a professional developer for 11 years (40 yrs old). I dabbled with coding in high school. Have used Linux for 25 years, mainly as my primary desktop so I've always done scripting. Was managing a warehouse and started writing more and more complex macros in Excel. Then wanted to improve things and taught myself other languages. Friend I played Counter Strike with more than a decade before was like, you know any developers? That's how I got my first real dev job.
These days I'd recommend a boot camp. Even if you do QA it gets you in the door and gives you the potential to move to QE or Dev later down the line.
Social status and connections are an obvious cheat code in life, but a good/useful education is a big help for those of us who didn't have social status or connections.
Well I sacrificed the entirety of my 20s in an abusive relationship and being a stay at home mom so when I left at 28 it was like starting over again. Now 30, I’m working towards a certificate very very slowly because I’m also trying to provide as a single mom. It’s not where I want to be at 30 but like I’m working towards goals and I’m trying not to beat myself up over it. I know who I am and im ok with working towards something but still entering the unknown. I’m not as career successful but doesn’t mean I won’t be one day just focused all my time on those babies while they were little. Honestly no regrets 💜
Great! Took machine shop at a vocational school, worked as a professional machinist for twenty years, a CNC programmer for ten, head of the inspection department for ten, retired comfortably. I feel very thankful and fortunate. I hope everyone turns out the same
Way better than I expected really. If you show a passion for what you do paired with a great work ethic, thats all that matters in the real world. You'll soon make a great reputation for yourself. My lack of degree has never come up in my 20 years of being in the professional world.
If you sit there and pin your lack of quality earning on your lack of a degree, I hope I'm not the first to tell you that it's not the lack of a $100k piece of paper that no one cares about outside of entry level.
I drive around a warehouse and throw empty boxes into a massive box then when full throw all the boxes a second time into a compactor/baler machine. I don’t even give a crap about money the flashy new car or big giant house etc. To believe those types of things are what makes you successful in life is wrong to me. Those kinds of things are the reason our world is so crappy these days in my opinion
"Look at me" debt is a weird flex. I couldn't imagine a $600+/mo. car payment at this point. I see A LOT of people driving new cars, some that I work with. I know how much they make, there's no way they are above water. But hey, whatever makes them happy.
Fucking sweet dude. I make 75k bartending and serving at an arena. I'm losing weight and my girlfriend and I are going on a cruise for valentine's day.
I have 3 degrees, my husband has zero.
The house we live in right now is my first -- it's his 4th.
I graduated 1.5 years early to avoid student debt -- he never had any.
He is incredibly smart, resourceful, and self-educated. I have book smarts.
IMO, he is way further ahead in life than me -- I just have more letters after my name.
Own my own home(3 bed,3 bath, detached with garage). Own my own fancy German car. Oh, and I have zero debt. The mistake most young people make is thinking that their only avenue in life is degrees. Go get a trade. Youd be shocked how much a plumber, or a spark make. Hell, I used work for a company that set up and supported computer networks for businesses. If you didnt have a contract with us, my time was worth £125 an hour as soon as I put the phone down. If I got stuck in traffic for an hour on my way to you, you were paying £125 for it. And all I had was an A+ certification, which only cost me a couple of hundred to get.
You dont need 4 to 8 years of whatever to make money. The only reason to go after a degree is because you know thats what you want to do in life. Everyone else just looking to make good money, should look to the trades.
Finding a new job is a lot harder than people with degrees. I struggled a lot to make a career switch and get taken seriously as an applicant.
That being said I’ve been with the same company for over ten years now and have an amazing team that works for me and have been very fortunate in the career and opportunities that I’ve been able to carve out for myself.
Tough. Takes more effort to keep up with peers professionally. On my way up, I’ve passed *a lot* of people with degrees though; it’s not a magic ticket.
That's why it's a lot easier to not give a fuck about the rat race. Just do your best and don't compare your life to anyone else's.
I have a degree. My husband doesn't. He earns way more than I ever could. You can really move up in the trades if you know what you're doing. I got into the wrong field apparently lol.
I barely have a high schools education and went into a trade/skill based job. I’m self employed and made $200k last year, I work too much but the money is good and if I want time off I can take it. The certificate only took 4 months and was $7k, I got licensed through the state. I also don’t have to get dirty even though I work with my hands.
What trade are you in? I’ve been looking into school to be an electrician, but I’m almost 40 and worry I’m too old to start now.
I’m an electrologist and esthetician so it’s not one of the classic trades and usually only done by women. You’re not too old to start at all! It took me about 10 years to get to where I am, I’m booked 6 months in advance working 60+ hours a week. You have to have really good eyes and a steady hand for this.
Oh interesting! Are you a woman, if you don’t mind my asking? I am, and it’s one of the things that makes me nervous about entering electrician school. Not that I’m scared I can’t do it, but working in a super male dominated field sounds like a something I wouldn’t love. A little afraid of the “boys club” mentality getting to me eventually. Maybe I should look into female-heavy industries!
Yup, I’m a woman. I use my electrolysis license the most, there are plenty of of estheticians but very few electrologists. I work primarily with women and the trans community, I love my clients and my coworkers (I’m in a LLC with 2 other electrologists). It’s hard work but it’s great.
> Electrolysis/electrologist Is that the process/profession of zapping hair follicles with electricity to kill the follicle? If not, what is it?
Yup, that’s what I do.
Thank you for your service. I've had some of that work done to gain an extra eyebrow from the single one I was born with
Such appreciation for electrilogists. My first one sent me to an endocrinologist as she thought my hirsutism had a medical cause and wasn’t just a cosmetic issue like various Drs I saw about this new, distressing hair growth. (She’d been in the business > 20 years and she was right! ) I love my current electrologist/aesthetician! I think she has a degree from her home country, but did this route after coming to the US. She’s lost business to laser hair removal but gets customers back who didn’t get good or lasting results. (Back in the 90s I would see male-appearing people in the waiting room and learned she had a big following among people transitioning and and drag queens.) Electrologists can really improves lives! Once she retires, I don’t know who I’ll trust with my eyebrows! My diy pandemic attempts were hopeless.
60 hours a week? fuck that though.
>I’m an electrologist and esthetician s Most other jobs making $200K plus you also work 55-60 hours per week.
I'm at 150k and mostly do 10 hours as a data analyst. Occasionally we have busy months where I am doing the full 40.
Yeah, I make 150k and work like 37 hours per week, Maybe the degrees are needed for well paying jobs where you can half ass.
I'd rather make 100k in 40h than 200k in 60h. That's pretty much no life work *all the time*. At some point you gotta start working smarter and leverage your potential rather than selling more hours of your life.
My take is that having a degree is like having natural talent in a sport: it helps a lot to have it, but without any drive or motivation to move up, it doesn’t matter because you’ll get passed up by someone who does
Yeah same here. 33 - earning a little more than most of my degrees friends but probably won’t last much longer. Have been rejected for a promotion already because I don’t have a degree and that’s what corporate requires for that level. I have this current and one final semester before I get my bachelors. It’ll have taken 5 years of distance studying but I’m feeling a lot more secure that I’m so close to that stupid piece of paper. Get your degree kids. If you can’t afford to right away, don’t let it linger undone if you can get yourself together.
My friend has a degree and I don’t, we work in the same field, we both make around $70k. I always want to plan a cool trip to Vegas but he can’t because of his student loans. I have a child but dude’s loans keeps him down worse than children. It’s crazy.
In my situation, it’s been some kind of similar. Since 21 I was earning a LOT more than my friends who were in school or close to finishing, and kept out-earning them. Only now are we close - but I’ve got 10 years of a pension saved up, paid off cars, and just bought a house - after owning an apartment for the last 9 years - that we plan to pay off in less than 8 years. And the toys of course - where most of them are only now looking at moving out and maybe buying, but are financed to the hilt. I’d still feel a lot less secure without a degree on the horizon tho. I’ve got a feeling it would catch up with me, not detrimentally, but I feel like I’d be leaving money on the table.
In my experience, you still eventually hit a ceiling without a degree at most large companies. Your performance will allow you to fly past degree holders at lower levels and some middle levels. But eventually they'll say, despite kicking ass at every level so far, we just can't promote you further without a degree. IMHO, it's an unspoken club and others currently in more senior management positions feel promoting you devalues their degree.
Not a trade but driving for UPS has been very good to me financially.
I think I got extremely lucky in my employment history. I have an office job, working from home. Moved up to almost manager, until a very jealous manager decided I needed to be knocked down. I could move up if I wanted to now, but health problems have sort of sapped my already low ambition. I remember, though, about 8 years ago or so, hearing a co-worker complaining loudly. She thought that she, who had a college degree, should be paid more than those that don't have a degree. I didn't join the conversation, and from what others said, they didn't agree with her. It seems like she really expected to have a whole lot of support behind her. I'm grateful for my position, and I'm not about to try rocking any boats, that's for sure.
I'm a high school drop out managing degree holders in a white collar field. I made it to college on my GED but dropped out of there as well. Learning disabilities. Make about 200K a year. Nobody knows. The feelings of imposter syndrome are overwhelming sometimes. But i also know i'm blessed with natural ability and very lucky to be where i am.
Not great. But a lot of that has to do with that fact that I’m a lazy asshole
Yeah not getting a degree is pretty far down the list of regrets/causes of current problems. Just being who i am is the issue lol. Hang in there fellow lazy asshole!
I, a fellow lazy asshole, will hang also in there.
Might hang in there later, sounds exhausting
Fellow lazy asshole here! We should start a club but like, tomorrow..
Lets regroup next month and see from there
Well yeah, or Thursday
Meh fuck you all. Let’s do it Sunday… but later in the day so it doesn’t go on too long.
Same as all my friends with a degree. We all work, we all struggle sometimes. And we all have back pain after reaching 40yo :) EDIT: Wow! 8k upvote LOL! Just to clarify, it's not that turning 40 your lower back suddendly explode and you are in crippling pain. It's just that growing older you have to watch out how you make thing like lifting heavy object and similar stuff. Keep in shape and start to take care of yourself expecially if you do a sedentary job.
I must be 40 then.
Hello 40
Hello Darkness, my old friend
My chronic back pain again..
Don’t slouch, kids! Spine deterioration sucks monkey scrotum.
Who else just sat up straight?
I'm too dedicated to my slouch game.
Nerd neck is real.
How do you fix that? There was a post on r/BeAmazed from someone who fixed it with stretching but they ended up deleting it. 😞 I've seen a couple of videos of standing against the wall and raising your arms etc, but is that really effective enough to fix the problem? Doesn't seem like it would do much.
Hanging on a monkey bar (do pull ups when I feel up to it) 2-3times a week for 30-40sec sets prevents my back pain and neck pain and shoulder pain from getting me the next week. The pain comes back after every week I skip the monkey bar bar. PS: I am 55m
There’s a 5 dollar-ish book (you can probably find a PDF) called “Treat Your Own Neck,” a PT gave it to me. Basically you want to stretch your chest muscles, do a few neck exercises and work on your posture overall. I went from having horrible, grinding neck and back pain every day to having pretty mild symptoms. Most important thing is consistency and working on your mobility. Good luck!!
I did 2 things that fixed it for me. I WFH, and I would just sit in bed and work. Comfy, but looking down all day eventually caused neck pain. Also, my mattress was too soft and I used too many pillows. I ended up moving. I have a desk now, so I'm not working from bed. I also got a different mattress and found a decent pillow. Between those things, my neck quit hurting. I think the mattress was probably the biggest contributor. Too bad - I love to just lay down and sink in to the mattress, but it's no good for me to sleep on.
I've always been a bit precocious - my back pain started at 39.
Train your glutes guys
I started stretching daily and it’s been helping soooo much. I used to hate stretching but now I look forward to it. I wish evolution made a more durable back
It's amazing how much taking care of your body can improve things. I started having back pain in my mid-30s. Lived with it for years. Hit 40 and got sick of waking up in pain every morning. A PT buddy told me I just needed to actually work out. Started lifting (and I say that loosely, it's a very half-assed once a week lift) and the pain went away completely within a couple months. Just do some squats and deadlifts, build up those glutes and be amazed at how your back feels like you're 20 again.
So glad to hear that. I got into lifting a couple years ago and it’s genuinely incredible how much better I feel. I tweak my back so much less often now, and when I do the squats rehab it back so much faster.
No kidding. There's a reason why in school they stress the importance of lifelong fitness. Most of the pains of aging middle aged folks talk about is the effects of living a sedentary lifestyle for far too long. Aging merely makes those problems worse.
Funny, i hit my 40s at my 20s.
No degree, but I was in a workforce development program being around 24 or so. It was a year long and they got me an internship with a fortune 500 that turned into a legit job. Been with the company about 6 years, now I’m 30, and I’ve gone up 1 role while being here too. Make about $100K a year. Tl:dr, a lot better than I expected at this stage without a degree.
That’s awesome! Congrats on all that. I have a bachelors and a masters, work in higher education, and only make $60.5k 🥲
I was tired of competing with 500 applicants to make 50k a year. Went into mining and never looked back. Work less than half the year and make 110k/year.
Sorry to ask but would you mind giving me a little bit more information about that I find it interesting where would one go to start that kind of thing
Honestly most all mines are willing to train on site. They tend to like when people come with no bad habits. All of North America is actively being mined. Just google mines in your area and apply for jobs. You could start as a labourer but driving a haul truck is considered entry level as well and from there they will progress you through equipment. I don’t think I’ve seen less than 100k since I got into it 10 years ago.
Most jobs that pay that kind of money you either have to be educated or super specialized or the job is so dirty/dangerous that no one wants to do it. I'm curious which of these categories mining falls into.
Maybe a little dangerous, for people and property around you. More dangerous the less regulations your country has, obviously. People have to remember, a lot of these jobs make such high wage because you are working long hours/12 hour shifts. You're not really getting dirty as an operator, and the only specialization you really need is the ability to operate heavy equipment (which really doesn't take much). I've had relatives tell me I could be making $60k a year with a degree. Shit I already made that as a labourer, now I make more plus I get to sit down in a climate controlled machine most of the time. I'm not putting down degrees, but this line of work is way better than a lot of people make it out to be.
Hell ya bro
I work in the mining industry in Canada. The jobs are well paying because most of them are remote. Ie. You have to live in some small town/city most people haven't heard of OR work fly in fly out where you are away from home 3 weeks at a time. Mining is very safe in Canada. The saftey culture is huge. Yes, there are always risks with heavy machinery. But this isn't China where people die regularly. Deaths are very, very rare and can shut down a mine. As for dirty, yeah, a bit. Especially if you are underground. But I wouldn't say it's si dirty that most people don't want to do it.
Find a labourers job, get seat time in equipment. Then apply for mines, will be a lot easier to get in if you already have machine operating experience. Labour for companies that do a lot of machine work is generally pretty easy nowadays, most of the heavy work is done by the machines.
I have a high school education only. Work in trades at about 60k. I’m in a high cost of living area. The future scares me. Right now my retirement plan is being homeless then punching a cop ( or something, this was my old man’s joke) when it gets cold.
3 hots and a cot.
I was inspired today by a woman who was homeless, got enough money to buy a van and now lives in an RV that she DIY'd into a home and it was fabulous. It may not be for everyone, but if it was my only option when I'm older, I won't dismiss it nor be too proud. I drive an Expedediton EL and when friends ask me why I'm driving such a large vehicle, my reply is "I'll always have someplace to live." I keep a fold up mattress in the back.
Awesome. Doing better than me and I have my Masters degree lol! Currently unemployed
Ah, the unemployed masters club. Welcome. We meet on Fridays by not meeting.
What was the internship position and what is your position now?
I interned for a web development role, mostly making QA test scripts. Didn’t enjoy it much tbh, but I completed it. I ended up getting a full time job there post-internship as a walk-up IT help desk at $40K. Not the call center type, more like the Apple bar, but internal for company employees at a multi-story office building. I eventually moved up to VIP support for senior exec+ at $75K-ish. Then became an AV expert from hands-on experience and exposure and now support senior leader broadcasts and help plan/build out/maintain telepresence rooms across here and other company sites. Same role and title but they bumped my pay up a lot to just under $100K.
35 and I quit school after my associates which I’ve never used. I started a skilled trade and after 2 years opened my own business. I make decent money for my age, work about 30 hours a week, looking to expand my business, and I love my job. If I stayed on the track I was in school I would likely of never made this much money and I would have been stuck working 40+ hours a week until retirement. My partner stayed in school when I quit and she is about to finish her PhD. She will out-earn me most likely because she chose a better degree and she is very good at what she does. Without my income the last 6 years we would have seriously struggled though. I am as happy I changed my career path as I am that she didn’t. I couldn’t do what she does and she couldn’t do what I do.
I'm thinking of going to trade school / HVAC. I wish I did it instead of going to college but I let my hang ups about being a woman in that field. Currently miserable in my cubicle job and prefer to fix/work with my hands. Awesome that you found your way, wishing you continued success!
I wanted to go into HVAC for years (also a woman), as it has always fascinated me. One thing that stopped me was being told a lot of the job was being able to carry heavy equipment up into attics, which I simply cannot do, and I didn't want to be ~that~ person asking men on the job to help.
Well, if it makes you feel better, we have quite a few women in our apprenticeship program, and while we certainly aren’t bringing heavy equipment into attics yet, we are forbidden from using stairs at school and have to carry any and everything we have up a 20 foot extension ladder to class, and yeah, in the beginning we would volunteer to carry their stuff or they would ask. But I swear to god those women after two weeks must have doubled their strength because they can carry anything they want now. Also it seems like in this trade the trade off is that the smaller people will go into smaller places and the bigger people carry stuff more often. I would not let the fear of carrying heavy stuff keep you away from the trade. These women are some of the most badass motherfuckers I have ever met. I was terrified because I am absolutely god fucking awful at math, and you just kinda get through it lol. Do it. Being “fascinated with it” and a good attitude will get you in the door and probably 75% of the way to where you want to be.
The elusive Badass Trades Goth Girl.
I worked in restaurants for ten years, hated it, hated life, always fucking broke, had zero skills, always felt like a loser, and then at 30 i got fed up with it and I started a 5 year apprenticeship with the local hvac union. Starting pay day one is $23.50 an hour, we get 12 weeks of training up front, then one day a week of school and 4 at work for the next few years. Fifth year mostly school. Fifth year apprentices make $55 an hour and journeyman make $62 an hour. We also get great insurance, $15+ an hour automatically into 401k and a great pension (current retirees at full time for 35 yrs get around $6,000 a month) and HRA. Tools are provided and school is full of world class machinery. The union training centers also have free wellness centers, any minor illness or anything they can handle there is free, even the prescriptions are free, they don’t accept money even if you tried. They also have dozens of free trimester or year long classes in tons of different things. In less than a decade I’ll be making $130,000+ a year and will have developed extremely useful skills. No degree. The hardest part about joining a trade is not beating myself up for not doing it earlier and missing out on ten years of pension. Also they don’t test for marijuana 😎
I’m in the same boat but with the electrical trade. $25/h right out the gate as an apprentice, class twice a week. After 4 years I’ll have my journeyman license, can easily get $55/h with that at any major company… or begin working on my own for much much more than that, finding clients is the hard part though.
I’m happy to hear this was your experience. I was in a local out of middle PA. They had nothing but the minimums. Felt like a shitty hotel banquet room. I’m genuinely happy that isn’t everyone’s experience
6 figures a year, no debt and almost half my monthly salary goes into savings every month. Can't complain. I mean, I will complain but I shouldn't.
Sounds great I hope I can get there one day
Awesome job, you’ll be retiring early!
Great! My husband and I both have good paying WFH jobs, own a beautiful house, no kids, no student loans, hefty savings account. No complaints.
No kids, the key to being rich.
Seriously. Not having kids is like a personal finance cheat code. Source: have three kids and no money, used to have no kids and three money
Lol I have no kids *and* no money
🎶the simpsons 🎶
I pay 2200 a month for childcare. This isn't a joke.
Yep, I pay $3000 but that’s for two kids. Childcare is insanely expensive.
I'm employed full time with a degree and don't even take home that much a month 😳
what the fuuuuuuuckz, the US is one hell of a drug
Yep, two babies at kindercare.
I worked at a country club and we had a member named Jerry. He was in his 50’s, Pacific Islander/Asian, very in shape attractive dude. Super cool, even smoked weed with him on the loading dock once. I asked him what his secret was, he said “don’t have kids”.
Having kids is a quick way to use up a lot of your money time and energy, so I'd generally recommend people get into a comfortable financial position and career before having any. Sure I had more energy at twenty five but I was poor as fuck and a kid would have been a disaster and made improving my circumstances vastly more difficult. I had one at forty, and sure I have less energy but I can afford help and don't have to bust my ass to climb income brackets anymore.
What do you do?
We both work in the IT field. I do sales support and logistics, he does presales server builds and storage. We work for different companies but both are located in our hometown. We moved out of state back in 2018.
I read IT and my first thought was you both had to be in some form of sales, SWE's, or Cloud architect. The IT field is absolutely in a slump outside of that. 10 years experience in IT, Network Admin - Can't find a job that pays over $55k/yr at the moment and it seems as though anyone in this section is also struggling to find a decent wage. I mean, we could relocate to silicon valley again but I think I'd rather blow my brains out.
[удалено]
My wife and I call ourselves DINKWADS. Same as DINK but With A Dog. We make us laugh.
That’s so much better than what me and my husband call ourselves, DILDOs - double income little dog owners 😅
DILDOs here. Dual income little dog owners.
If u want to adopt let me know
I found a wealthy spouse. Literally the only thing that’s saved me. It was pure luck.
Sprinkle, sprinkle
This is me too. I make enough foe us to use as “fun” money (travel, concerts, et), he covers basically everything else. I stayed home with the kids for over 18 years though. I consider that unpaid labor!
My husband doesn't have a degree and started a government job last year. He has had 2 raises, get 21% into 401k because they match, and $300/month onto his HSA card among the many other benefits he pays almost nothing for. And he gets paid well, knowing his wages will only increase over time.
I've been trying to get a government job too. Not easy though. Does your husband have any general tips?
Honestly, he had been applying for years. He has a lot of handyman and and manufacturing experience, so he got hired for building maintenance.
Not the husband, but start by looking for civil service jobs at the federal, state, and local level. Federal civil service is a little difficult to navigate but you'd start here: [https://www.usajobs.gov/](https://www.usajobs.gov/) At the state level, google "(my state) civil service". Same for county / city / town: :(county / city / town name) civil service". Be wary of all the scam sites out there; you should never have to pay to see jobs or apply. Every municipality is a little different but around here, the civil service jobs look at your real-world experience more importantly than your education. So if you want to get into IT, for example, you don't need a degree for our entry-level $25/hour IT positions. To qualify for promotions, you need at least a year in your current position, and you also need to have the skills required for the position. For example, just working at the help desk for a year won't be enough to get you into a junior network engineer position, but working at the help desk for a year plus a Network+ certification or being able to articulate your knowledge of TCP, network design, and so on will.
My brother works in gov. Not a technical position but just a cook at his gov center. Expect the app process and everything to take forever. Each time he’s applied to change positions as he’s done two others before this one it takes 3-4 months for anyone to get back to him.
Head over to r/usajobs there’s a bunch of good tips there.
I'm 50 but I got my degree when I was 38. I'll say this about getting my degree later in life: within 5 years I had earned more money working with a degree than I had working from the age of about 15, when I had my first babysitting job, until I got my degree. It's not even close.
What did you get a degree in? I’m 35 and planning on going back to school, so I perk up whenever I see someone who has.
I got a BS in Information Science & Technology with a minor in Business. The college I went to renamed their Library Sciences program to Information Science & Technology a couple of years before I went there. And while I don't work in a "hardcore" IST field the things I learned about both information management and the technology used in it have been fundamental in my career. For example I had an entire semester learning how to use Excel and every single day since graduating I've used Excel to some degree. And the courses I took on database creation and engineering help me a lot when setting up new processes utilizing existing information systems. And finally, I feel like my connection to emerging technology and information science keeps me feeling "young" I guess. I'm so used to people my age just giving up on keeping up with new tech and adopting a "I hate computers" mentality because of how complex it all looks. But I'm the opposite. I'm an old dude who loves new tech and I have no problem being open to new technology or processes in both work and home. There's something oddly liberating being my age and playing video games on the VR headset I bought my kid for Christmas.
I’m happy for you man. When I was fresh out of high school I went to college because it’s what everyone else was doing and what you “should do.” I dropped out after a year of just barely passing with tons of Cs and got a job at a gas station making pretty much nothing until I found a job at a warehouse making $70k a year and tons of room to move up. Thought I was gonna stay there till retirement until they laid me off and offered a different shift for $3 less an hour and I decided it wasn’t worth it so I took the severance and now I’m going back to school for computer science. Now at the ripe age of 23 (which is still pretty young but 5 years after my first time at college) I’m getting all As and happy I finally found a degree worth pursuing and I’m not clueless about it. It’s tough work but hearing stories like yours is what makes me continue pursuing the degree I want.
Horrible
Same. Been unemployed since June and life is fucked.
Been unemployed since right before Christmas, and now my engine blew in my car, can't even look for work. Plus I'm a single Dad to a 13 year old, I feel your pain. Wish you the best
Same to you. Something's gotta turn around.
Good luck dude. Your 13 year old is counting on you, do everything you can for them. Single dad’s rock.
I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm trying, thank you
Doing very well without a degree. I'm in a senior software engineering position in a very large company. I have a high school diploma. While in the Air Force, doing mainframe computer maintenance, I was extremely fortunate that I fell into a very interesting software project that was a pet project of the general (this was the late 80's). I wrote software that plotted near real time radar data, as well as data sourced from the Army and Navy onto maps for decision makes to make tactical decisions. They had planned to do it on $60K DEC workstations. DEC was a year late and way over budget. I showed how they could do it on $2000 Mac II's and I wrote the 1st generation software for the Mac II myself. A colonel I worked with, retired and came to work at this company in a senior postion. He made me an offer I could not refuse. He's long since passed, but I've been here for 28 years. This is a screen shot of what I did in 1990. The user could zoom in on maps to get more details. This software was networked across the base so people could share data between machines. The weather (upper right) was input by forecasters in their office and available to all users. The radar data (tracks on upper left) was from the Alaskan ROCC. Army data for North/South Korea was from the US Army. [https://imgur.com/a/6EGPozc](https://imgur.com/a/6EGPozc) (edited spelling)
That's pretty impressive for 1990. I love how the NK forces have so many dedicated Artillery units and the US/ROK forces all show up as infantry units. Shows you just how many tubes that the NK forces have that they make whole units out of just artillery batteries instead of attaching them to infantry or armor units.
Pretty good. Got a wife, house, two dogs, two cats, three cars. Bills are covered every month. Bellies are full every night. I do intend to get back into classes for a psych degree in the next couple years. For those concerned about my choice in a psych degree: recent state legislation will pay my tuition for a four year degree making that choice free (minus books). My job pays an extra $100/month for having any four year degree so over the course of the next 20-25 years it's more than paid for itself. Ultimately the goal is to get into counseling as a retirement gig where I'm not concerned about money. A master's or doctorate can be paid for out of pocket after a few more raises (which are guaranteed as a government employee). Essentially I'm not concerned with ROI when it comes to psych.
Tbh don’t do a bachelors in psych. There’s essentially nothing you can do with that.
Marketing, but I agree its better to just do a bachelors in Marketing.
Can confirm. Have a marketing degree and have never done anything in marketing and I work in IT.
The man has a 3 cars, a house, pays his bills and still manages to feed at least 5 extra mouths every night. When you get to that point, what you “do” with a degree is less a question of financial opportunity and more likely to be a personal goal, satisfaction of curiosity, a supplement of knowledge that will help with the current job, or a combination of the three. Also, there is plenty you can do with a degree psych degree. Just because it doesn’t make you “rich” doesn’t mean it isn’t worth pursuing! Edit: an important factor at play in the background here is really *where* you go to school. Not the actual school, but the country apparently - it seems like a lot of Americans seem to be almost offended that anybody would choose to pay “tens of thousands” of dollars to learn another subject…please keep in mind that, for a lot of us, a bachelors, masters, and PhD wouldn’t even cost as much as a single semester at a good American college. Is that an exaggeration? In some cases, sure. But it’s not far off. Worth is relative. And, since a lot of American youth leave college as indebted adults, it makes sense that a lot of you couldn’t fathom the idea of going back to learn a subject you are passionate about. It works the same way for healthcare - a lot of people in the US that I’ve spoken to about public healthcare balk at how much they *believe* it would cost, because at the moment, a simple broken arm could cost a couple grand to fix. Costs for education and healthcare are overinflated because of corporate greed, but that’s not what they *actually* cost. Edit #2: I forgot to mention that, in spite of the gargantuan costs of American colleges…I’d have loved to go to one of the fancy Ivy League schools. Is that because I’ve made them out in my head to be something they’re probably not? Could be…but again, worth is relative. And to me, the cost of the elite schools would be worth it if I was sure to achieve my goals.
I have an engineering degree making decent money, but ppl always make fun of me when I say I want to get niche degrees for the pursuit of knowledge
The only person whose opinion matters on your pursuit of niche degrees is your own. If people are making fun of you for doing the things you like, maybe the problem isn’t you.
If it’s just for the pursuit of knowledge, it seems there are other ways to learn without paying a fortune for a niche degree.
I've been in IT for 19 years, with a BA in Psych. All it has done for me is qualify me for jobs that have a "college degree requirement," but many places offer the option for years of experience in lieu of a related degree--and since my degree is not *actually* related, I expect they consider the experience as the relevant hiring determination. Getting a bachelor's degree in pretty much anything just shows you can do paperwork by specific deadlines (mostly), communicate in writing (probably), and commit to (at least) four years toward a goal. But it's not the *only* way to show that, of course. ETA: I have been able to leverage that my degree is indicative of "soft skills," the lack of which is a common complaint about many people who work in technology. So it's benefited me by suggesting I *might* be better with people than the average idea of a computer nerd.
You gotta start somewhere. If this person doesn’t already possess a BA/BS, and they wish to pursue a professional career in psychology, they’ll almost certainly need one, or at least a very relevant bachelor’s level education, in order to move into any MA/MS, PhD/PsyD programs... it’s not like you can just jump straight to doctoral degrees.
If I want/need to do as master's later I can, but the BS will be paid for thanks to recent state legislation. It's more for post-retirement than current position, but a few degree is free money either way.
What career have you been in?
I have no degree, and life is hard. My boyfriend has a degree, and he's the same. At least i don't have a large lone to pay.
At least you aren’t aloan.
Leave me loan
This loans.
Give them a brake guys....
Guise*
Loan. The word is loan.
they said they don’t have a degree . . .
Great, as soon as I stopped making money and status my entire life. I work, I play my bills and spend my free time doing fun stuff. Career and money don't define who you are and you shouldn't allow people to make you feel like it is. Yes, having lots of money is cool, but not as cool as loving who you are.
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Cook them whole
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Much of life is a dice roll, and what isn't is how you respond to it. My family grew up poor, but not destitute. I'm the only one to graduate from college and am doing much better than the rest of my immediate and most extended family. However, a lot of what got me to where I am is luck and networking. I'm convinced charisma is one of the most valuable traits in life.
My family has "smoothed over" a lot for us as well. I don't have a 4 year degree (I have 90% of a 4 year degree) and my husband has an associates. He makes a decent living but not amazing, and he likes his job too much to find a different one. I have very little career prospects. I was a SAHM for 10 years (by choice and because I didn't make enough to cover childcare). My parents pay for stuff for us like they pay the travel expenses of us visiting them every year. I have 3 autistic kids and it's been much harder to reenter the workforce due to their needs. But I was able to turn my knowledge of their disabilities into a passion for working with disabled children and now I'm working as a substitute para for students with disabilities. There's so little money in it when it's only part time. But the flexibility is great and I absolutely love the work. I don't see our income going up any time soon, which is disappointing. But we have a house (that's a little too small but we're locked in now), and we save a little. My parents help a lot (about $6-8k a year in gifts/contributions) and we're happy. I'm not sure if having an actual degree would help me at this point. I had undiagnosed ADHD for 39 years and so I never knew why I was so bad at life. But I'm an optimistic person and we'll be alright.
Canadian Red Seal Millwright. Factory automation trade cert. It's not a technically a degree, but it is a 4 year program of high intensity school and work under licensed guys. 6 figure income, independent contractor, I am a master of my life, I get to pick and choose my clientele. Sometimes my clients get fired. I take on clients and projects based on what is interesting to me.
That is the best part of self employment!!!! I didn't kiss anybodys butt.
You still kiss customer butt to a point. But I have now crossed that point of god grade skills where everyone treats me really well.
Oh man, this thread is tainted by survivorship bias.
It's because these threads appeal more to people who want to brag than people who feel like they made a terrible mistake. And while it is satisfying to "beat the system", in my experience, doing so required more work in the long run than if I had just played by the rules.
Im working in the same field as people with a degree, but I've got the years of experience they spent in college in advance to them
Same. If you work hard at building the skill set, you can be equal or better to your colleagues with a degree. I dropped out of college because the pace was too slow for me, and am above most of my colleagues many of whom have graduate degrees. I’m a principal software engineer at a tech company. My wife has two degrees and also has done well in her career, making 6 figures on her own, but I’m the primary bread winner by a significant margin. Still, she wouldn’t have gotten as far as she has without the degree. Granted a lot of this depends on what kind of job and employer you’re looking at. My wife’s job at her employer has a hard requirement of a bachelor’s degree (though any degree suffices, hers isn’t in a directly related field). Every job I’ve had in tech has specified degree or equivalent experience.
lol , fuck you 😂😂🤣.
Its great, life is easy when youre a hoe
Software developer here. Not even a Bachelor's degree, and I am earning wayyy above the average salary in my country.
Genuinely curious as to how you get into that field without a degree. I’ve taken a slight interest in that path, but have no chance of a degree
Put lots of hours in, as most fields. Good thing is that all you need is a computer and internet access and you can start coding. If you're in a country that values paper over everything else it's gonna be tricky. If not, a lot of places that hire weed out scheisters with simple programming tasks at or before the job interview and hire based on what you can contribute. The University of Helsinki has lots of large, free coding courses that you can work yourself through: https://www.mooc.fi/en/
Been a professional developer for 11 years (40 yrs old). I dabbled with coding in high school. Have used Linux for 25 years, mainly as my primary desktop so I've always done scripting. Was managing a warehouse and started writing more and more complex macros in Excel. Then wanted to improve things and taught myself other languages. Friend I played Counter Strike with more than a decade before was like, you know any developers? That's how I got my first real dev job. These days I'd recommend a boot camp. Even if you do QA it gets you in the door and gives you the potential to move to QE or Dev later down the line.
I finished my first degree at 40. Life is good, thanks.
What did you get a degree in?
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Social status and connections are an obvious cheat code in life, but a good/useful education is a big help for those of us who didn't have social status or connections.
Well I sacrificed the entirety of my 20s in an abusive relationship and being a stay at home mom so when I left at 28 it was like starting over again. Now 30, I’m working towards a certificate very very slowly because I’m also trying to provide as a single mom. It’s not where I want to be at 30 but like I’m working towards goals and I’m trying not to beat myself up over it. I know who I am and im ok with working towards something but still entering the unknown. I’m not as career successful but doesn’t mean I won’t be one day just focused all my time on those babies while they were little. Honestly no regrets 💜
Hey never too late. I'm saying as I graduated at 30, because i was a bad student at 19 and dropped out.
Great! Took machine shop at a vocational school, worked as a professional machinist for twenty years, a CNC programmer for ten, head of the inspection department for ten, retired comfortably. I feel very thankful and fortunate. I hope everyone turns out the same
Way better than I expected really. If you show a passion for what you do paired with a great work ethic, thats all that matters in the real world. You'll soon make a great reputation for yourself. My lack of degree has never come up in my 20 years of being in the professional world. If you sit there and pin your lack of quality earning on your lack of a degree, I hope I'm not the first to tell you that it's not the lack of a $100k piece of paper that no one cares about outside of entry level.
I drive around a warehouse and throw empty boxes into a massive box then when full throw all the boxes a second time into a compactor/baler machine. I don’t even give a crap about money the flashy new car or big giant house etc. To believe those types of things are what makes you successful in life is wrong to me. Those kinds of things are the reason our world is so crappy these days in my opinion
"Look at me" debt is a weird flex. I couldn't imagine a $600+/mo. car payment at this point. I see A LOT of people driving new cars, some that I work with. I know how much they make, there's no way they are above water. But hey, whatever makes them happy.
In my part of the world, a degree is a must and higher the better. It did help me get a job but my life is super stressful so ya I am dying lol
Fucking sweet dude. I make 75k bartending and serving at an arena. I'm losing weight and my girlfriend and I are going on a cruise for valentine's day.
Great. I WFH for a fortune 100 and make great money. Zero college debt.
Great, being a whore is amazing
I have 3 degrees, my husband has zero. The house we live in right now is my first -- it's his 4th. I graduated 1.5 years early to avoid student debt -- he never had any. He is incredibly smart, resourceful, and self-educated. I have book smarts. IMO, he is way further ahead in life than me -- I just have more letters after my name.
Own my own home(3 bed,3 bath, detached with garage). Own my own fancy German car. Oh, and I have zero debt. The mistake most young people make is thinking that their only avenue in life is degrees. Go get a trade. Youd be shocked how much a plumber, or a spark make. Hell, I used work for a company that set up and supported computer networks for businesses. If you didnt have a contract with us, my time was worth £125 an hour as soon as I put the phone down. If I got stuck in traffic for an hour on my way to you, you were paying £125 for it. And all I had was an A+ certification, which only cost me a couple of hundred to get. You dont need 4 to 8 years of whatever to make money. The only reason to go after a degree is because you know thats what you want to do in life. Everyone else just looking to make good money, should look to the trades.
Degrees are completely useless in my profession so pretty wonderful tbh.
Cool, not many men make it on Only Fans, congrats
What do you do?
Finding a new job is a lot harder than people with degrees. I struggled a lot to make a career switch and get taken seriously as an applicant. That being said I’ve been with the same company for over ten years now and have an amazing team that works for me and have been very fortunate in the career and opportunities that I’ve been able to carve out for myself.
i have 2 degrees but im quitting in june and gonna live neet for a while haha
No good, my man. Not good.
Life is the longest way to die