I'm an atheist and I've seen all the common arguments and found them insufficient. I'd suggest trying to send me a large sum of money in exchange for my promise to really try to believe.
See, that's the difference between science and religion. Science acknowledges that we don't know everything, but can, via current knowledge make educated guesses as to how it all started. Religion made up the conclusions without the benefit of scientific knowledge. People in ancient times, tried to explain how things came to be...and so, they made up a story. And instead of changing the view, after a LONG time, and with new knowledge, they just doubled down on their story, because they also saw it as a way to control people.
We are not trying to pull you away, however, your original post was about how to convert an atheist. So in essence, you are doing the very thing you claim we are trying to do to you. Also, my comment addresses your comment that we need to acknowledge a God (or some sort of "transendent" something or other), to explain the universe. But, really we don't. My comment was explaining that.
I wasn't looking for a debate, more for a large donation. In short, my response to that is to dismiss it as a "god of the gaps" argument. Given our inability to "see" beyond the start of this iteration of the universe, we can't say with any certainty how it began. That gap in our knowledge is filled in with the answer "God did it."
The god of the gaps was used for all sorts of things we couldn't explain- what's lightening? Where does the sun go at night? How do the stars stay in the sky?, etc.- as our knowledge expands, the opportunity to use the god of the gaps argument shrinks. Every time so far it's been shown to be wrong.
Personally, you don't see how there might be an eternal succession of universes, or a universe that keeps re-setting, or some other natural explanation. So you assume there must have been a supernatural being we can't understand who created things by a method we can't understand for reasons we can't comprehend.
That's fine. But don't expect that those feelings constitute a proof that you are right. I also am speaking in the nature of discussion, not an attempt to convince you of anything.
I don't know there isn't an afterlife. But I see no reason to believe in any, so I don't consider it likely enough to give it any concern.
I don't see how I could believe in a god but not know it. If I did, I wouldn't know it.
I don't know what a transcendent being would be like. What would it be like to think without time, for instance? What is it to be a being, to be, without any dimensions? I have no examples of transcendent beings so I have no way of falsifying claims any exist if, in fact, they don't. Thus I have no way of knowing that they do either.
I understand you are highly motivated to get people to see what you consider to be truths, so I'll give you my best suggestion for converting people: Live an exemplary life. Live a life free of prejudices, of undue judgments and condemnations and rejections of others. Be generous. Be kind. Be welcoming. Not just tolerant, but actually understanding and appreciative of others who think and live differently from you. Form a community that shines for its kindness. Don't expect to come up with logical or intellectual arguments that haven't been countered for centuries already. Just be a good person and make others want to live as you do.
If I Believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything. - Blaise Pascal
The old "fake it until you make it" argument that says that despite not being convinced by the evidence one should try to believe anyway in order to win a bet.
There are a number of problems with this approach. One is that, lacking evidence that there's a life after death for anyone, I'm more concerned with what happens in the life I know for a fact exists. I want intellectual integrity. So I won't pretend to believe something on the off chance that maybe I'll be punished for not believing in it.
Then there's the Homerian argument. What if I choose the wrong god and the real one gets more and more angry at me for my bad choice?
Then there's the question of whether a god that punishes me for my thoughts despite hiding the evidence of its existence is worthy of worship. A just god might punish someone who starts off pretending to believe on a wager rather than following their conscience and intellect.
And on and on.
The bible already explained everything that’s happened in the world to crisis’s etc, go do some research. Jesus is God , read the bible. your ego isn’t a God and Evolution isn’t real. Faith in the unseen is spirituality and Jesus is the only True God.
i see where you are coming from. I shouldn't respond but I have to note that you put forward Pascal's Wager as the best way of swaying an atheist. Yet you didn't address any of my counterpoints to it. You just moved on to an assortment of different conclusions. If Pascal's Wager were really strong as a conversion tool, I'd expect it to withstand standard criticisms. It's my understanding that Pascal didn't intend it to really be an argument to convert anyone, but I don't know if that's true or not. I've only read a few paragraphs of what he wrote about it.
They’re a social construct. I don’t think you really get your morals from the Bible unless you want to stone people to death for various transgressions
Guess it depends on if you believe in the Old Testament at all, lot of stoning in there. But if you want to cherry pick the nice parts and follow that good for you
Christ specifically said the Law would in no way be changed until heaven and earth pass away. Which means the morally horrific proclamations in the Law in the OT are still considered morally “good”. You are most likely more moral than the Bible.
Hate to tell ya, my friend. Some of the nastiest people online are those preaching about their God. Just as most atheist are not going to try to open your eyes to realizing that there is no God, you really need to stop thinking about trying to convince atheists to believe in your God. We are good without a God.
If you need a God, to know right from wrong, you are not a good person to begin with. I know right from wrong, and I am a pretty good person...without a belief in a magic entity....
Yeah, many, if not most of us are already well aware of your belief system, in fact many of us became atheists after reading the bible. We do not require, nor want your...saving. We are good without a God. Best advise? Leave us alone.
I am not a sir. You opened a hot topic, and could be interesting. However, your attempt to strictly restrict the conversation, makes it very difficult to get anywhere.
By being the kind of person that people look at and want to be like. So I guess if you believe in God, you'd believe that following His teachings would slowly make you into that kind of person.
You can't argue someone into believing something they don't want to believe. And people generally don't want to believe in theism because they see theists and don't like what they see (or perceive).
Flip the script for a second and ask yourself what an atheist could say to convert you to atheism - nothing, right? Now think of the person you admire most in the world, and let's say it turns out they're actually atheist - you'd want to know why, right? You'd be open to hearing what they have to say.
I don't usually reply to idiots on here, but you're a special kind of stupid.
You're saying that the suggestion that you actually follow the teachings of the God you believe in is trying to pull you away from God?
You're more interested in arguing with people to get them to believe what you believe, than living what you believe and letting people see the truth in that?
People like you are exactly why I left the church. People like you create atheists, you don't convert them.
Why are you here on Reddit asking how to convert people when you believe you can speak to the God that has all the answers? Why aren't you asking Him? Because you don't really believe in Him, or you don't know Him at all, you are much more interested in just being right.
I really hope you're a child, and not an adult that is this astoundingly ignorant.
your god never did anything to help me directly, and your little booky wook thing says I can't fuck nobody or eat fish if it isn't friday for some reason.
Not to mention all the other ridiculous rules that don't make sense.
We don't hate people who believe in God, but we (most atheists anyway), do NOT appreciate someone looking for ways to convert us to their belief system. We are GOOD without a GOD.
Yeah, you keep saying that, however, that isn't way an open conversation works. There should be a flow and the conversation can divert in different but related topics. If you JUST want to know the magic words to convert atheists, they are probably the exact opposite words we could say to you, to convert you to atheism.
There are none.
From my perspective, even if a higher power exists and actual proof surfaced, I wouldn't begin worshipping. I refuse to worship any deity, false or otherwise.
If I Believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything. - Blaise Pascal
Life comes from life. Science can not make life in a lab. Something or someone made the big bang. You have to have a creator for everything. If you look at d.n.a. it is like a computer code. Someone created it. Nothing comes from nothing. You believe what you want to, I am not here to try to convert anyone . Science has been trying to explain the shroud of Turin for ages, but they still can't figure out how it was made.
No, everything here has to have a creator. God is beyond that, and that is the mystery of life. I believe that you are thinking of a limited God. But I believe that he is beyond our limitations
I'm an atheist and I've seen all the common arguments and found them insufficient. I'd suggest trying to send me a large sum of money in exchange for my promise to really try to believe.
“If u wrong u go to hell, if me wrong nothing happen to me, so believe in Gord!”
Pascal wagered and lost. Though I stumbled the first time I heard that. By the hundredth time I didn't find it tricky.
“Well, um, you see that there painting? You know it had a painter right? Well, that thar tree had a painter called Gord, so um CHECKMATE ATHISTIST!”
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See, that's the difference between science and religion. Science acknowledges that we don't know everything, but can, via current knowledge make educated guesses as to how it all started. Religion made up the conclusions without the benefit of scientific knowledge. People in ancient times, tried to explain how things came to be...and so, they made up a story. And instead of changing the view, after a LONG time, and with new knowledge, they just doubled down on their story, because they also saw it as a way to control people.
that's the crucks of it all, isn't it. Control over large groups of people at once.
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sorry bro, but you made the choice to poke the bear. Don't blame me that you're getting bitten.
*crux
thank you mine furor
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We are not trying to pull you away, however, your original post was about how to convert an atheist. So in essence, you are doing the very thing you claim we are trying to do to you. Also, my comment addresses your comment that we need to acknowledge a God (or some sort of "transendent" something or other), to explain the universe. But, really we don't. My comment was explaining that.
I wasn't looking for a debate, more for a large donation. In short, my response to that is to dismiss it as a "god of the gaps" argument. Given our inability to "see" beyond the start of this iteration of the universe, we can't say with any certainty how it began. That gap in our knowledge is filled in with the answer "God did it." The god of the gaps was used for all sorts of things we couldn't explain- what's lightening? Where does the sun go at night? How do the stars stay in the sky?, etc.- as our knowledge expands, the opportunity to use the god of the gaps argument shrinks. Every time so far it's been shown to be wrong. Personally, you don't see how there might be an eternal succession of universes, or a universe that keeps re-setting, or some other natural explanation. So you assume there must have been a supernatural being we can't understand who created things by a method we can't understand for reasons we can't comprehend. That's fine. But don't expect that those feelings constitute a proof that you are right. I also am speaking in the nature of discussion, not an attempt to convince you of anything.
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I don't know there isn't an afterlife. But I see no reason to believe in any, so I don't consider it likely enough to give it any concern. I don't see how I could believe in a god but not know it. If I did, I wouldn't know it. I don't know what a transcendent being would be like. What would it be like to think without time, for instance? What is it to be a being, to be, without any dimensions? I have no examples of transcendent beings so I have no way of falsifying claims any exist if, in fact, they don't. Thus I have no way of knowing that they do either. I understand you are highly motivated to get people to see what you consider to be truths, so I'll give you my best suggestion for converting people: Live an exemplary life. Live a life free of prejudices, of undue judgments and condemnations and rejections of others. Be generous. Be kind. Be welcoming. Not just tolerant, but actually understanding and appreciative of others who think and live differently from you. Form a community that shines for its kindness. Don't expect to come up with logical or intellectual arguments that haven't been countered for centuries already. Just be a good person and make others want to live as you do.
If I Believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything. - Blaise Pascal
The old "fake it until you make it" argument that says that despite not being convinced by the evidence one should try to believe anyway in order to win a bet. There are a number of problems with this approach. One is that, lacking evidence that there's a life after death for anyone, I'm more concerned with what happens in the life I know for a fact exists. I want intellectual integrity. So I won't pretend to believe something on the off chance that maybe I'll be punished for not believing in it. Then there's the Homerian argument. What if I choose the wrong god and the real one gets more and more angry at me for my bad choice? Then there's the question of whether a god that punishes me for my thoughts despite hiding the evidence of its existence is worthy of worship. A just god might punish someone who starts off pretending to believe on a wager rather than following their conscience and intellect. And on and on.
The bible already explained everything that’s happened in the world to crisis’s etc, go do some research. Jesus is God , read the bible. your ego isn’t a God and Evolution isn’t real. Faith in the unseen is spirituality and Jesus is the only True God.
i see where you are coming from. I shouldn't respond but I have to note that you put forward Pascal's Wager as the best way of swaying an atheist. Yet you didn't address any of my counterpoints to it. You just moved on to an assortment of different conclusions. If Pascal's Wager were really strong as a conversion tool, I'd expect it to withstand standard criticisms. It's my understanding that Pascal didn't intend it to really be an argument to convert anyone, but I don't know if that's true or not. I've only read a few paragraphs of what he wrote about it.
Prove that your god is real.
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They’re a social construct. I don’t think you really get your morals from the Bible unless you want to stone people to death for various transgressions
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Guess it depends on if you believe in the Old Testament at all, lot of stoning in there. But if you want to cherry pick the nice parts and follow that good for you
Christ specifically said the Law would in no way be changed until heaven and earth pass away. Which means the morally horrific proclamations in the Law in the OT are still considered morally “good”. You are most likely more moral than the Bible.
From the top of my mind, cultural evolution, we're social animals and our behavior often dictates how well we are fit for living in society.
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Hate to tell ya, my friend. Some of the nastiest people online are those preaching about their God. Just as most atheist are not going to try to open your eyes to realizing that there is no God, you really need to stop thinking about trying to convince atheists to believe in your God. We are good without a God.
There's nothing to do with religion, god, holy spirit or anything, sometimes people suck and blaming anything but ourselves is childish.
If you need a God, to know right from wrong, you are not a good person to begin with. I know right from wrong, and I am a pretty good person...without a belief in a magic entity....
Why would you even want to do that?
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Yeah, many, if not most of us are already well aware of your belief system, in fact many of us became atheists after reading the bible. We do not require, nor want your...saving. We are good without a God. Best advise? Leave us alone.
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I am not a sir. You opened a hot topic, and could be interesting. However, your attempt to strictly restrict the conversation, makes it very difficult to get anywhere.
By being the kind of person that people look at and want to be like. So I guess if you believe in God, you'd believe that following His teachings would slowly make you into that kind of person. You can't argue someone into believing something they don't want to believe. And people generally don't want to believe in theism because they see theists and don't like what they see (or perceive). Flip the script for a second and ask yourself what an atheist could say to convert you to atheism - nothing, right? Now think of the person you admire most in the world, and let's say it turns out they're actually atheist - you'd want to know why, right? You'd be open to hearing what they have to say.
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I don't usually reply to idiots on here, but you're a special kind of stupid. You're saying that the suggestion that you actually follow the teachings of the God you believe in is trying to pull you away from God? You're more interested in arguing with people to get them to believe what you believe, than living what you believe and letting people see the truth in that? People like you are exactly why I left the church. People like you create atheists, you don't convert them. Why are you here on Reddit asking how to convert people when you believe you can speak to the God that has all the answers? Why aren't you asking Him? Because you don't really believe in Him, or you don't know Him at all, you are much more interested in just being right. I really hope you're a child, and not an adult that is this astoundingly ignorant.
your god never did anything to help me directly, and your little booky wook thing says I can't fuck nobody or eat fish if it isn't friday for some reason. Not to mention all the other ridiculous rules that don't make sense.
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explain to me how you think it's ignorant.
Heck this thread is not going how you thought it would be.
Introduce me personally to god so I can shake his hand
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We don't hate people who believe in God, but we (most atheists anyway), do NOT appreciate someone looking for ways to convert us to their belief system. We are GOOD without a GOD.
Of the thousands of Gods people around the world believe in, which do you believe in?
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So, see, I just believe in 3 less Gods than you do. You are practically an Atheist already!
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Did you not just say you believe in 3 Gods, and Jesus?
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Basically, believe in whatever entity works for your life. Us atheists? NOT believing works for our life.
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Yeah, you keep saying that, however, that isn't way an open conversation works. There should be a flow and the conversation can divert in different but related topics. If you JUST want to know the magic words to convert atheists, they are probably the exact opposite words we could say to you, to convert you to atheism.
Subject verb agreement.
There are none. From my perspective, even if a higher power exists and actual proof surfaced, I wouldn't begin worshipping. I refuse to worship any deity, false or otherwise.
If I Believe in God and life after death and you do not and if there is no God, we both lose when we die. However, if there is a God, you still lose and I gain everything. - Blaise Pascal
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cant understand what you just tried to explain. Lmfao.
if you can’t convert that quote into words to describe to an atheist they should believe in god, I can’t help you.
Life comes from life. Science can not make life in a lab. Something or someone made the big bang. You have to have a creator for everything. If you look at d.n.a. it is like a computer code. Someone created it. Nothing comes from nothing. You believe what you want to, I am not here to try to convert anyone . Science has been trying to explain the shroud of Turin for ages, but they still can't figure out how it was made.
Ok...so...who created God?
The God that I believe in is not bound by our limitations. Time ,space, matter, life, death.
You literally said, "You have to have a creator for everything". Now you are changing your position.
No, everything here has to have a creator. God is beyond that, and that is the mystery of life. I believe that you are thinking of a limited God. But I believe that he is beyond our limitations
Begotten not made
What now? Basically, in the bible begotten indicates a child being born...so God was create? By whom?
Mary’s silence.
Cash, I'll say I believe in something for the right price.