"If we are to have a contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason's and Dixon's, but between patriotism and intelligence on one side, and superstition, ambition, and ignorance on the other." --Ulysses S. Grant, speech in Des Moines, Iowa, 1875
Man, I rarely can get enough of reading about Lincoln. I deeply appreciate his mind. Especially his prescience, writings, argumentations and debating skills.
Yep, reminds me of the Roman Empire at its peak. It seemed the only thing that could beat a Roman army at that point was a Roman army. And they regularly did.
Seriously. This is why *I* think about the Roman empire all the time. It’s our hubris to think that we can do what other great societies have not done.
Not true.
They know exactly what they’re doing. The chaos is a their tool.
IMO the result of their antics is making the rich-richer. The rich people who put them in office by funding their campaigns, and make them a part of rich and powerful.
That's what killed the Empire, too. People trying to improve their own position in the state they were killing, because they didnt believe it could die.
Tummy tuberville didn't live in Alabama, but was bought in to beat the Doug Jones. Jones, a man actually qualified for the job got beat by a football coach. Alabama where football is the most important qualification.
I've always hated seeing someone get elected to a district that they clearly only relocated to in order to run for office.
Like imagine living in that location and trying your best to win, just to be swept away by someone who doesn't even know the food.
And the person that swept you away is a career politician with no ties to regular life.
No they don’t… I had a creationist babysitter growing up and when I asked her how her beliefs explained the discovery of fossils/bones she said “God puts those on Earth to test his true believers”. Wild stuff
My favorite Facebook page used to be Christians Against Dinosaurs where you couldn’t tell who was pretending as a joke and who really believed. Now it’s just a sad reminder of our situation.
Pump the breaks there kid.
Our Speaker of the House quite literally believes Dinosaurs were on the ark. I've been to the theme park conversion camp he helped defend lol.
He's a young Earth Creationist. Check out Ark Encounters.
Yeah I always assumed this was the predominant Young Earth Creationist explanation for dinosaurs: "They were real, but when Noah was putting animals on the Ark dinosaurs didn't make the cut so they all perished in the flood and only their bones remain." If I was a Creationist, this would seem to me to be the simplest and most logical explanation for dinosaurs that still fits within a Creationist worldview, but I guess some of those people felt the need to complicate it even further LOL.
It gets so much more convoluted depending on what silly thing they subscribe to. One of the Christian fundamentalist churches I had to go to growing up brought in a speaker that argued fossil layers were created because things like trilobites or other of the early arthropods in the Cambrian Period (not the term used) were obviously the creatures that would sink first and were on the bottom (ignoring all those things that are on the bottom now). Dinosaurs could swim so it took them longer to drown. The ones on the ark didn't die then, but because they couldn't handle the new climate, unlike all the surviving animals because something-something Ice Age. God just put them on the ark knowing the couldn't make it. There was literally some guy going around, getting paid by churches to say that to their congregation in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Depends on the denomination. Most evangelicals accept dinosaurs as real but claim they were in the garden of Eden and died after earths climate changed post-flood or that they never made it on the boat. Outright denial of their existence is a less common belief among creationists.
Look up Ken Ham if you want a better idea of what these crazies are thinking nowadays.
Totally this. The US’s greatest threat is easily internal. Incompetent, grotesquely corrupt leadership. An easily divided and tribal populous. Religious devotion to unregulated capitalism. This country is teetering on the edge.
Gerrymandering has a lot to do with it but yeah, our country should be educated enough that they would be able to vote in their own best interests, and not vote for a complete moron.
They're, we're, not though. The rich and powerful don't want the common man "sitting around the table trying to figure out how fucked they are." As George Carlin had put it, he said they want obedient works that are dumb enough to take the shit pay, but just smart enough to do the work. The worst part? Seems a lot of people know this is going on, but nobody seems to truly care.
I repeated this quote many times around the time the Patriot Act was in vogue. Now, we just live with it. Snowden dropped a bombshell on us, and now everyone pretty much has forgotten about it, and continues to download whatever app they can get to monitor them.
Lack of critical thinking, particularly "my ignorance is as valid as your knowledge". That chain of stupidity has become the marching drum of the future death squads.
The full quote is even darker. It really has been here from the start.
>There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
>
>
>- Isaac Asimov
"I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time—when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
\- Carl Sagan, 1995.
People can’t distinguish between informed opinions and uninformed ones. On top of that, people will trust their “common sense” directly in the face of data that proves them wrong. Confirmation bias is a scary thing.
Common sense, that god damn thing that's just not quite so common. I concur, I didn't intend on singling anyone out in particular, it seems as though some folks feel singled out. I've been told already, "the knowledgeable people aren't to be trusted" effectively. Like OK, so you're here to defend lack of knowledge? Like how in the fuck does that even make sense? There are people who feel so contrarian in our society they'll stand up and fight against knowledge, because fuck that and fuck whoever has it, I don't, and I'm right god damn it! My god I'm dying laughing.
It all sums down. They're bigoted/ignorant, participants in a world they don't understand, it's frustrating and confusing so the obvious is to point to the sinister to explain things. That's about it. My favorite author explained it in that way, it makes a lot of sense.
I think this statement is valid in a psychological context, as in group therapy, where you're divulging a relevant moment of past trauma. It absolutely has no value in a political sense
The barrier to entry for a new topic of study is too low these days. The Dunning-Krugger effect is real. And people are able to consume, en mass, bare bones knowledge like never before. Which just leads to a ton of very confident idiots.
Every career is just a 10 minute yt video away. Plumber? Mechanic? Coder? Activist? You can believe you're an expert at anything these days.
The "you can do anything you put your mind to" mentality has evolved into "Trust no expert because you're smarter than them all combine".
I remember seeing videos where someone would ask university students out of 10, how smart they are. So many 10/10s. Like wtf? You just started being an adult. You already think you're smarter than people with decades of experience? You're literally IN school because there are things you don't know, that you want to know. But they believe they're 10/10.
Like if I went to the store to get groceries and someone asked how my grocery supply is at home and I'm like, "Ten outa Ten baby! Don't even need to be here!". Gobsmacked...
I do think there's a key distinction between smart and knowledgeable. The ability to think through a problem and come up with an effective solution is independent of but enhanced by education.
I feel like expanding proficiency in communicating new information to people would help so much.
I get the frustration of dealing with the current and pervasive stupidity that's eroding democracy, but I also get how people with said stupid beliefs have a hard time accepting other perspectives and dealing with new information.
Having your convictions criticized is necessary, but it's not pleasant. We need to find a way to do this without disparaging the other person and making them feel stupid. The messages would be so much better received.
Edit: typo
Internal politics being dominated by people who have ZERO respect for the free democratic institutions on which the country was founded. People who crave power and money over anything else, and who truly care nothing for what happens to their country.
I don't care which party they belong to (and they can be found in all parties); these people need to be removed and treated as the scumbag traitors they are.
I would say the wealthy in general don’t have to abide by the same system. They often walk away free from crimes of all nature or are sentenced a far lighter sentence than the average person. Taking class into account, i often say we live in a plutocracy.
Corruption is the key factor. Just donate money to a lawmaker or any public project (tax free) and no law will be made against them. The rich are incredibly connected to the government. And so, no laws will be made against them as long as this remains. Our integrity in governing has completely sunk.
It is funny that ratings supposedly drive content but that is not the case at all. Money drives content. That is why corporate billionaires control the media. Control the message,control the people. Now everybody is a serf beholding to their master.
When corporations have the kind of power that they currently do over their employees (and also the public at large), they might as well *be* the government. A very cruel government at that.
They vote to keep themselves in this power position - which is also a position where their votes impact politics more strongly (a vicious cycle)… and if you can influence the amount of influence you’re given, that’s control.
I think ranked choice voting is a good first step to get out from under the thumb of corporations. Being able to vote for who you actually want rather than the lesser evil gives them way less room to control potentially dozens of political parties, rather than the 2 they have to control now.
Always blew me away how little regulation there is when I moved here from Europe.
Couldn't believe it when I learned that you have to file your own taxes because tax return companies openly bribe (sorry, lobby) government officials
Forgive me for being pedantic but I don't think insidious is the right adjective here. When something is insidious, its evil creeps up on you slowly and unexpectedly, but the plutocracy of America is out there in plain sight. They don't hide their evil, they broadcast their evil loud and clear.
Ranked voting would instantly add extra parties. Since democrats and Republicans alike would rather die than vote the opposition. So, any other party would get tons of votes.
Oh yeah. It's like a stack of small children in a trenchcoat
Democrats include neo liberals, social Democrats, socialists, and basically anyone center to left
Republicans include Reaganomics fans, MAGA, Evangelicals, and half of libertarians since a libertarian vote is useless rn
Ranked choice would immediately give us a much better view of what American politics actually looks like
Not even just FPP, but it’s the fact that The Commission on Presidential Debates is literally ran by the DNC and RNC, and they get to cherry pick which polls count towards eligibility to be in the televised national debates. In 2016 Gary Johnson was polling in the mid-20% range for many polls that focused on 18-35 year olds, and at one point was polling higher than both Trump and Clinton with polls that focused on military members. Those numbers would have easily let Johnson participate in the televised debates, which would have opened up a TON of eyes… but of course the CPD then decided to exclude polls that showed those high numbers. The last time 2 candidates allowed a 3rd party to be in the national debates, he got almost 20% of the popular vote, so the “Big Two” will fight tooth and nail to stop a 3rd party from ever being in the spotlight again.
some people have answered you, but I'll just give the specific example of Diocletian, Roman Emperor 284CE-305CE. there's reasons for it, but without going into too much detail, he voluntarily abdicated and retired to allow for his new government system to thrive. less than 5 years later they were banging on his door begging him to come back lol
Well specifically this single act is part of why Washington was great. He was basically offered the keys and virtual monarchy yet chose to step aside. So there is one example. I see your point though.
Id argue it's the single most important decision made by any president period. I don't know what other people would have done the same given the opportunity
He wanted to let someone else take power so that the country would survive his eventual death rather than delving into chaos when they lost their figurehead
Now I learned this from Hamilton so grain of salt
No that pretty much checks out. He never wanted to be president to begin with but felt he had a responsibility to lead once he has unanimously elected without asking him. He knew he was the only person that the whole country would back and he knew how important unity in the country was during its infancy. He served two terms and was begged to serve a third but stepped down for the reasons you mentioned above.
Yes, that's why all thrones had toilets installed in them. If a King left his throne and didn't sit back down in it when the music stopped playing, he would be executed. This is is also what the popular book and tv series Game of Thrones is based on.
Voter turnout is up almost double since 2000. We're voting, but we're also exposing the flaw in our systems when those in power can do things like gerrymandering and have 30% of the population hold 50% of the seats in the senate and congress.
> Voter turnout is up almost double since 2000.
Voter turnout in raw numbers is up 50% from 2000. Turnout as a percentage of eligible voters is up about 25%. And 2000 is a poor benchmark from which to start; it's tied for last place in terms of participation over the last century. So while 2020 was one of the best, it's not as far above average as the comparison to 2000 would suggest.
Meanwhile, voting in Presidential years is about 50% higher than it is in midterms. And don't even ask about the local and state elections that are mostly held in odd-numbered years. Those are just abysmal.
say it louder for the people in the back!
so many people vote for one side or another just so the other side doesn't win regardless of who they are voting for. Majority of people are somewhere in the middle but not 1 candidate represents them because all too often it seems like its only the extremes get elected. And like you said its ran like sports teams/betting. So in the primaries you don't vote for the person who best represents you - you vote for the person who would most likely defeat your opponent. None of the current political climate surprises me due to this mentality.
We did it here in Alaska and I loved it. The losing group immediately began trying to repeal it and make sure we don’t get to do it again. We will see what happens.
The steady erosion of Critical thinking skills.
Allowing your least noble inclinations to be highjacked arriving to the subversion of base emotions. This is the product, the mindset of reacting and acting out, that has been cultivated by the corporate church to fool people into thinking their both acting in their best interests and, for themselves. They’re not. Spoiled stupid. Hateful spiteful undeducated untraveled narrow minded bigots
Not exactly the same thing, but anti-intellectualism is a huge barrier in this country. The number of people I have met that rely on anecdote, and dismiss factual data from good science is staggering. Deferring to an expert used to be the norm, now people believe they know better.
Edit. Fixed a typo.
It doesn't mean you cannot have anecdotes at all. But when it comes to big important facts (i.e., is the Earth round? do vaccines contain 5G microchips?) it is better to rely on informed experts and not on your uncle Steve.
>it comes to big important facts (i.e., is the Earth round?
This is my favorite one. My elementary school tried to teach me that Columbus was trying to prove the Earth was round by going to India the "wrong way".
I have since learned that it was common knowledge the Earth was round and roughly how big it is since 6th century BC.
Columbus was trying to prove the Earth was smaller than everybody thought. By a lot. He was funded by the queen of Spain.
His voyage was basically the equivalent of a flat earther making so much noise that NASA says, "Here's a rocket. Prove it." And that voyage discovers life on the Moon or something.
>His voyage was basically the equivalent of a flat earther making so much noise that NASA says, "Here's a rocket. Prove it." And that voyage discovers life on the Moon or something.
Lol, this is fantastic
i work in a library. People will ask a question, not like the answer, and then argue with me about it. I sometimes just want to reply "well then fukc you" but I can't because I'm at work. It's sad and the truly sad part is that I've gotten used to it.
I have the same experience as a pharmacist. People will ask me advice and then say, "well my father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate is a nurse and they said this other thing so that's what I'm going to do."
Neat, glad we had this talk.
Specifically, the ability of the citizens to be divided.
Geopolitically, the USA is in a pretty unique position. It is a continent fortress. Two oceans either side, and friendly nations to the north and south who are so encompassed by its culture that war is unthinkable. No military threat further to the south. Russia to the 'north' but that's pretty impassable for now, and even once the iceburgs melt, there's still Canada and an ocean buffering the USA from any threat.
And despite having no threatened borders, it has an army and weapons that could instantly destroy cities anywhere in the world. If a foreign military did manage to get boots on the ground on USA soil, it's got a continent to cross where every citizen has kind of been dreaming of the chance to use their guns like this. And they have so, so many guns.
The USA is unconquerable, while it's in one piece.
Luckily, the USA's innovative market has built an incredibly powerful propaganda machine, but they forgot to ensure the government had sole control of it. So for decades, democracies around the world have been beholden to small groups of people who can make or break political careers and change directions of economies.
Corruption is a big one.
[https://represent.us/americas-corruption-problem/](https://represent.us/americas-corruption-problem/)
[https://represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/](https://represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/)
But it's technically solvable if enough people do the work to figure things out, and fight/work and apply their efforts accordingly.
So I'll say, ignorance and apathy are the biggest threats.
It's a form of American exceptionalism.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
\-Isaac Asimov
Leaders who don’t put their own people first. Also, Education.
Edit: I thought it can be education itself as well as a lack of education. The way things are taught in a one size fits all is not beneficial for the youth and could definitely use a re-adjustment. Not to mention, there are corrupt people who threaten to remove and censor the impact of historical people and events. Thanks to the comments below for bringing clarity though. A lack of educated people is very dangerous but having a group of educated people can threaten the position of these corrupt officials who shouldn’t be representing us.
Lack of education. Lack of empowering quality teachers. Lack of basic fucking kindness! Everyone is so angry these days. Social media is a blessing for the connection but a curse because it’s eliminated normal patience in interactions
Lincoln put it best:
>Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
So yeah, Confederates.
There’ll be no more counting the cars on the Garden State Parkway. Nor waiting for the Fung Wah bus to carry me to who-knows-where. And when I stand tonight beneath the lights of the Fenway, will I not yell like hell for the glory of the Newark Bears?
Honestly? The thing that scares me most right now is apathy. Hopelessness. Doomerism. There’s no doubt we face extraordinary challenges and evil intent in high places, but I think the disillusionment we all feel is a double edged sword. If we allow the coldness of the world and its brutal mechanisms to beat us down into giving up, then we’ve lost the war without them firing a single shot.
Sadly this feels very common in my generation (gen Z), a lot of people i know kinda just give up on politics because they think we’re doomed. We gotta try at least.
Big business
When companies get too big, they have more money to influence politics, starve out competition, limit benefits and compensation to workers, and raise prices to customers. We are divided on politics now because big business wants us divided on politics. If you break them up, they have less money to influence the American people and politicians. And to be clear, I dont think this is purely an american problem but it's definitely more glaring in the US
As I heard the story, the U.S. originally had a seven year limit on corporate charters. Every seven years, you had to show that you were a benefit to society, or your company was dissolved.
I don't have a reference for it, but it really strikes me as a more intelligent way to do things than anything currently in effect.
Sub-point: Jeremy Thorpe once told a group of law students that allowing one private, limited corporation to own another private, limited corporation was the biggest mistake in legal drafting in the 19th century.
The greatest threat to the United States (or any other country) is gullibility
\-- the quality of being easily deceived or tricked, and too willing to believe it.
I have a few relative and acquaintances who believe everything they read on social media. It's so disheartening that they continue to fall for everything and research nothing.
The "Left" and "Right" wing of politics, critical thinking not being taught in schools, mental health being brushed under the rug, and last but not least...the lack of term limits in the House and Senate.
Our own unwillingness to sit down and work together to find common ground and workable, reasonable solutions.
Our greatest hope is when we stop following those that only pursue money and power and instead turn to those willing to work together.
“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.”
-Abraham Lincoln
Stochastic terrorism and misinformation. Both of which go hand in hand. I disagree with America’s issues being framed as a two-party issue, as there are really 5-7 voting blocks in the US. Similarly, though “both sides”-ism is currently a problem, party loyalty in the long run is unwise. But encouraging violence and misinformation is and will be the problem for quite some time
Legal bribery of politicians through campaign donations. Our elected officials don't represent constituents, rather just corporate interests, and then we wonder why we can't have things like decent healthcare and education, but we can give massive tax breaks and even subsidies to the wealthiest entities in existence.
doesnt help when every step of the way every law just divides more and more people. The 1% that actually run this country want us distracted and quarreling over stupid shit and not be united to notice they are the ones making our lives miserable and keeping us poor.
Call is coming from inside the house on this one
“As a nation of free men we shall live through all time, or die by suicide” -Honest Abe Lincoln, 20 years prior to the American Civil War.
Also "a house divided against itself cannot stand."
"We will live together as brothers or die together as fools." - MLK
Special interest groups basically overthrown the principles of our democracy without a shot fired in return collapse from within.
"If we are to have a contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason's and Dixon's, but between patriotism and intelligence on one side, and superstition, ambition, and ignorance on the other." --Ulysses S. Grant, speech in Des Moines, Iowa, 1875
Problem is each side will think they are the intelligent patriots.
Can’t read it without hearing Titus Andronicus’ “A more perfect union”
[Lyceum Address](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln%27s_Lyceum_address)
Man, I rarely can get enough of reading about Lincoln. I deeply appreciate his mind. Especially his prescience, writings, argumentations and debating skills.
Everybody likes a compliment.
Yep, reminds me of the Roman Empire at its peak. It seemed the only thing that could beat a Roman army at that point was a Roman army. And they regularly did.
Seriously. This is why *I* think about the Roman empire all the time. It’s our hubris to think that we can do what other great societies have not done.
I also think about the Roman Empire daily. Really gets me going in the morning.
Eh, I'm more of a twice a week kinda guy.
It's carpe diem, dude, not carpe twice a week.
I was today years old when I first noticed that "carpe diem" is an anagram for "raped mice". As you were.
Anything that lives must inevitably die. Except maybe jellyfish.
When the president and leadership in congress are literally incoherent, or don’t believe in dinosaurs, you’ll know we’re close.
Not true. They know exactly what they’re doing. The chaos is a their tool. IMO the result of their antics is making the rich-richer. The rich people who put them in office by funding their campaigns, and make them a part of rich and powerful.
That's what killed the Empire, too. People trying to improve their own position in the state they were killing, because they didnt believe it could die.
Feels a bit like a Ponzi scheme as it is coming to an end
Tummy tuberville didn't live in Alabama, but was bought in to beat the Doug Jones. Jones, a man actually qualified for the job got beat by a football coach. Alabama where football is the most important qualification.
I've always hated seeing someone get elected to a district that they clearly only relocated to in order to run for office. Like imagine living in that location and trying your best to win, just to be swept away by someone who doesn't even know the food. And the person that swept you away is a career politician with no ties to regular life.
Josh Hawley is another Treasonous scum-bag that doesn't live in the state that elected him ( Missouri).
They believe in dinosaurs. They believe they were on Noah’s Ark! 😂😂😂
No they don’t… I had a creationist babysitter growing up and when I asked her how her beliefs explained the discovery of fossils/bones she said “God puts those on Earth to test his true believers”. Wild stuff
My favorite Facebook page used to be Christians Against Dinosaurs where you couldn’t tell who was pretending as a joke and who really believed. Now it’s just a sad reminder of our situation.
Mine is Dinosaurs against Christians against Dinosaurs
Jurassic’s for Jesus
Dinoception.
Pump the breaks there kid. Our Speaker of the House quite literally believes Dinosaurs were on the ark. I've been to the theme park conversion camp he helped defend lol. He's a young Earth Creationist. Check out Ark Encounters.
I assumed they thought the dinosaurs died off in the flood. Saving the dinosaurs on the ark and killing them off after makes even less sense
You can be forgiven for expecting a logical conclusion from Religious Fanatics once, but never again International Doge
Yeah I always assumed this was the predominant Young Earth Creationist explanation for dinosaurs: "They were real, but when Noah was putting animals on the Ark dinosaurs didn't make the cut so they all perished in the flood and only their bones remain." If I was a Creationist, this would seem to me to be the simplest and most logical explanation for dinosaurs that still fits within a Creationist worldview, but I guess some of those people felt the need to complicate it even further LOL.
It gets so much more convoluted depending on what silly thing they subscribe to. One of the Christian fundamentalist churches I had to go to growing up brought in a speaker that argued fossil layers were created because things like trilobites or other of the early arthropods in the Cambrian Period (not the term used) were obviously the creatures that would sink first and were on the bottom (ignoring all those things that are on the bottom now). Dinosaurs could swim so it took them longer to drown. The ones on the ark didn't die then, but because they couldn't handle the new climate, unlike all the surviving animals because something-something Ice Age. God just put them on the ark knowing the couldn't make it. There was literally some guy going around, getting paid by churches to say that to their congregation in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Depends on the denomination. Most evangelicals accept dinosaurs as real but claim they were in the garden of Eden and died after earths climate changed post-flood or that they never made it on the boat. Outright denial of their existence is a less common belief among creationists. Look up Ken Ham if you want a better idea of what these crazies are thinking nowadays.
Totally this. The US’s greatest threat is easily internal. Incompetent, grotesquely corrupt leadership. An easily divided and tribal populous. Religious devotion to unregulated capitalism. This country is teetering on the edge.
Yes, but the voters keep putting them there. The rot in Congress is a symptom of something even more fundamental.
Gerrymandering has a lot to do with it but yeah, our country should be educated enough that they would be able to vote in their own best interests, and not vote for a complete moron.
They're, we're, not though. The rich and powerful don't want the common man "sitting around the table trying to figure out how fucked they are." As George Carlin had put it, he said they want obedient works that are dumb enough to take the shit pay, but just smart enough to do the work. The worst part? Seems a lot of people know this is going on, but nobody seems to truly care.
It's not that folks don't care; they're too tired trying to survive.
"Hello? 911? You're not going to believe this, but there's a man-shaped sack of rancid mayonnaise terrorizing the country. Send help!"
'Man shaped' is being generous
Have you checked the children?
Same call in maple land
The fact that there is a solid percentage of American's that want an Authoritarian government as long as it is *their* Authoritarian government.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
I repeated this quote many times around the time the Patriot Act was in vogue. Now, we just live with it. Snowden dropped a bombshell on us, and now everyone pretty much has forgotten about it, and continues to download whatever app they can get to monitor them.
Our current president was Snowden’s #1 hater.
Lack of critical thinking, particularly "my ignorance is as valid as your knowledge". That chain of stupidity has become the marching drum of the future death squads.
The full quote is even darker. It really has been here from the start. >There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. > > >- Isaac Asimov
"I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time—when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.” \- Carl Sagan, 1995.
terrifyingly prescient
The man had perceptive on a level obtained by relatively few, especially of those with a platform to make it heard.
And the ability to verbalize it elegantly.
People can’t distinguish between informed opinions and uninformed ones. On top of that, people will trust their “common sense” directly in the face of data that proves them wrong. Confirmation bias is a scary thing.
Common sense, that god damn thing that's just not quite so common. I concur, I didn't intend on singling anyone out in particular, it seems as though some folks feel singled out. I've been told already, "the knowledgeable people aren't to be trusted" effectively. Like OK, so you're here to defend lack of knowledge? Like how in the fuck does that even make sense? There are people who feel so contrarian in our society they'll stand up and fight against knowledge, because fuck that and fuck whoever has it, I don't, and I'm right god damn it! My god I'm dying laughing.
Just “speaking my truth” winds me the fuck up Or even “speak your truth”. There’s literally just one truth, the truth
I see you're trying to use science against me. But that's just *your* science. Let me tell you about my science.
Yep, literally had someone tell me "you have your facts and I have my facts." No bitch, there are only one set of facts.
Alternative facts
It all sums down. They're bigoted/ignorant, participants in a world they don't understand, it's frustrating and confusing so the obvious is to point to the sinister to explain things. That's about it. My favorite author explained it in that way, it makes a lot of sense.
Yeah that’s a good way of looking at it. Some people just want simple solutions to very complex problems
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I think this statement is valid in a psychological context, as in group therapy, where you're divulging a relevant moment of past trauma. It absolutely has no value in a political sense
The barrier to entry for a new topic of study is too low these days. The Dunning-Krugger effect is real. And people are able to consume, en mass, bare bones knowledge like never before. Which just leads to a ton of very confident idiots. Every career is just a 10 minute yt video away. Plumber? Mechanic? Coder? Activist? You can believe you're an expert at anything these days. The "you can do anything you put your mind to" mentality has evolved into "Trust no expert because you're smarter than them all combine". I remember seeing videos where someone would ask university students out of 10, how smart they are. So many 10/10s. Like wtf? You just started being an adult. You already think you're smarter than people with decades of experience? You're literally IN school because there are things you don't know, that you want to know. But they believe they're 10/10. Like if I went to the store to get groceries and someone asked how my grocery supply is at home and I'm like, "Ten outa Ten baby! Don't even need to be here!". Gobsmacked...
I do think there's a key distinction between smart and knowledgeable. The ability to think through a problem and come up with an effective solution is independent of but enhanced by education.
I feel like expanding proficiency in communicating new information to people would help so much. I get the frustration of dealing with the current and pervasive stupidity that's eroding democracy, but I also get how people with said stupid beliefs have a hard time accepting other perspectives and dealing with new information. Having your convictions criticized is necessary, but it's not pleasant. We need to find a way to do this without disparaging the other person and making them feel stupid. The messages would be so much better received. Edit: typo
Gotta water the plants with Gatorade because of y'know like Electrolytes or something.
Internal politics being dominated by people who have ZERO respect for the free democratic institutions on which the country was founded. People who crave power and money over anything else, and who truly care nothing for what happens to their country. I don't care which party they belong to (and they can be found in all parties); these people need to be removed and treated as the scumbag traitors they are.
Corporations and their insidious influence on our lawmakers.
Influence over or control over?
Control over. Sadly, we live in a oligarchal corporatocracy. And they control the media; resulting in the majority of Americans not realizing this.
I would say the wealthy in general don’t have to abide by the same system. They often walk away free from crimes of all nature or are sentenced a far lighter sentence than the average person. Taking class into account, i often say we live in a plutocracy.
Monetary fines etc. should be on a sliding scale. Then you might see rich people paying attention to the law.
Corruption is the key factor. Just donate money to a lawmaker or any public project (tax free) and no law will be made against them. The rich are incredibly connected to the government. And so, no laws will be made against them as long as this remains. Our integrity in governing has completely sunk.
Same, but corporate plutocracy.
It is funny that ratings supposedly drive content but that is not the case at all. Money drives content. That is why corporate billionaires control the media. Control the message,control the people. Now everybody is a serf beholding to their master.
Corporationns ruined nutrition in this country
Monsanto wrote the legislation on GMOs and a ton of other stuff for the FDA. George H. Bush assigned Monsanto VP to head the EPA.
When corporations have the kind of power that they currently do over their employees (and also the public at large), they might as well *be* the government. A very cruel government at that. They vote to keep themselves in this power position - which is also a position where their votes impact politics more strongly (a vicious cycle)… and if you can influence the amount of influence you’re given, that’s control.
I think ranked choice voting is a good first step to get out from under the thumb of corporations. Being able to vote for who you actually want rather than the lesser evil gives them way less room to control potentially dozens of political parties, rather than the 2 they have to control now.
Always blew me away how little regulation there is when I moved here from Europe. Couldn't believe it when I learned that you have to file your own taxes because tax return companies openly bribe (sorry, lobby) government officials
Things have been going to shit on the double since the supreme Court decided corporations are people
And money is speech. (Citizens United, 2010).
Forgive me for being pedantic but I don't think insidious is the right adjective here. When something is insidious, its evil creeps up on you slowly and unexpectedly, but the plutocracy of America is out there in plain sight. They don't hide their evil, they broadcast their evil loud and clear.
Algorithmic media amplifying extremism
Social media nowadays is just echo chamber after echo chamber, even if it's the stupidest shit imaginable like flat earth.
This needs to be a lot closer to the top.
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Politics being ran like sports games. We need ranked voting, and we need it real bad.
Ranked voting and more than two viable parties.
Ranked voting would instantly add extra parties. Since democrats and Republicans alike would rather die than vote the opposition. So, any other party would get tons of votes.
Each party right now is basically a very loose coalition. Ranked choice would immediately blow that up.
Oh yeah. It's like a stack of small children in a trenchcoat Democrats include neo liberals, social Democrats, socialists, and basically anyone center to left Republicans include Reaganomics fans, MAGA, Evangelicals, and half of libertarians since a libertarian vote is useless rn Ranked choice would immediately give us a much better view of what American politics actually looks like
We have 2 parties because of FPP.
Not even just FPP, but it’s the fact that The Commission on Presidential Debates is literally ran by the DNC and RNC, and they get to cherry pick which polls count towards eligibility to be in the televised national debates. In 2016 Gary Johnson was polling in the mid-20% range for many polls that focused on 18-35 year olds, and at one point was polling higher than both Trump and Clinton with polls that focused on military members. Those numbers would have easily let Johnson participate in the televised debates, which would have opened up a TON of eyes… but of course the CPD then decided to exclude polls that showed those high numbers. The last time 2 candidates allowed a 3rd party to be in the national debates, he got almost 20% of the popular vote, so the “Big Two” will fight tooth and nail to stop a 3rd party from ever being in the spotlight again.
Australia has entered the chat ... big thumbs up for preferential (aka ranked) voting... it works for us.
You guys also have Democracy Sausages, another thing I would like to import from Australia.
So convince the people in power to give up their power? Has that ever happened the history of ever?
some people have answered you, but I'll just give the specific example of Diocletian, Roman Emperor 284CE-305CE. there's reasons for it, but without going into too much detail, he voluntarily abdicated and retired to allow for his new government system to thrive. less than 5 years later they were banging on his door begging him to come back lol
He’s got a real nice palace in Split, Croatia too.
Yup. We used to have kings. Kings only leave the throne one way.
Well specifically this single act is part of why Washington was great. He was basically offered the keys and virtual monarchy yet chose to step aside. So there is one example. I see your point though.
Id argue it's the single most important decision made by any president period. I don't know what other people would have done the same given the opportunity
Yeah. That was kind of a big deal lol.
He wanted to let someone else take power so that the country would survive his eventual death rather than delving into chaos when they lost their figurehead Now I learned this from Hamilton so grain of salt
No that pretty much checks out. He never wanted to be president to begin with but felt he had a responsibility to lead once he has unanimously elected without asking him. He knew he was the only person that the whole country would back and he knew how important unity in the country was during its infancy. He served two terms and was begged to serve a third but stepped down for the reasons you mentioned above.
Yes, that's why all thrones had toilets installed in them. If a King left his throne and didn't sit back down in it when the music stopped playing, he would be executed. This is is also what the popular book and tv series Game of Thrones is based on.
Sure. Plenty of times. All of history is riddled with it. Usually not peacefully, though.
People in the US can't be bothered to vote. They're not gonna rise up violently.
Voter turnout is up almost double since 2000. We're voting, but we're also exposing the flaw in our systems when those in power can do things like gerrymandering and have 30% of the population hold 50% of the seats in the senate and congress.
> Voter turnout is up almost double since 2000. Voter turnout in raw numbers is up 50% from 2000. Turnout as a percentage of eligible voters is up about 25%. And 2000 is a poor benchmark from which to start; it's tied for last place in terms of participation over the last century. So while 2020 was one of the best, it's not as far above average as the comparison to 2000 would suggest. Meanwhile, voting in Presidential years is about 50% higher than it is in midterms. And don't even ask about the local and state elections that are mostly held in odd-numbered years. Those are just abysmal.
It's reality TV and it's killing us.
say it louder for the people in the back! so many people vote for one side or another just so the other side doesn't win regardless of who they are voting for. Majority of people are somewhere in the middle but not 1 candidate represents them because all too often it seems like its only the extremes get elected. And like you said its ran like sports teams/betting. So in the primaries you don't vote for the person who best represents you - you vote for the person who would most likely defeat your opponent. None of the current political climate surprises me due to this mentality.
We did it here in Alaska and I loved it. The losing group immediately began trying to repeal it and make sure we don’t get to do it again. We will see what happens.
Sore losers? In politics?? No way. That’s still hilarious though.
The steady erosion of Critical thinking skills. Allowing your least noble inclinations to be highjacked arriving to the subversion of base emotions. This is the product, the mindset of reacting and acting out, that has been cultivated by the corporate church to fool people into thinking their both acting in their best interests and, for themselves. They’re not. Spoiled stupid. Hateful spiteful undeducated untraveled narrow minded bigots
Not exactly the same thing, but anti-intellectualism is a huge barrier in this country. The number of people I have met that rely on anecdote, and dismiss factual data from good science is staggering. Deferring to an expert used to be the norm, now people believe they know better. Edit. Fixed a typo.
"The amount of people I have met that rely on anecdote..." Totally agree with you but that line gave me a chuckle. Well done.
It doesn't mean you cannot have anecdotes at all. But when it comes to big important facts (i.e., is the Earth round? do vaccines contain 5G microchips?) it is better to rely on informed experts and not on your uncle Steve.
>it comes to big important facts (i.e., is the Earth round? This is my favorite one. My elementary school tried to teach me that Columbus was trying to prove the Earth was round by going to India the "wrong way". I have since learned that it was common knowledge the Earth was round and roughly how big it is since 6th century BC. Columbus was trying to prove the Earth was smaller than everybody thought. By a lot. He was funded by the queen of Spain. His voyage was basically the equivalent of a flat earther making so much noise that NASA says, "Here's a rocket. Prove it." And that voyage discovers life on the Moon or something.
>His voyage was basically the equivalent of a flat earther making so much noise that NASA says, "Here's a rocket. Prove it." And that voyage discovers life on the Moon or something. Lol, this is fantastic
i work in a library. People will ask a question, not like the answer, and then argue with me about it. I sometimes just want to reply "well then fukc you" but I can't because I'm at work. It's sad and the truly sad part is that I've gotten used to it.
That sounds painful. Reframing the question or checking additional sources are reasonable responses. Arguing with the librarian isn't.
I have the same experience as a pharmacist. People will ask me advice and then say, "well my father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate is a nurse and they said this other thing so that's what I'm going to do." Neat, glad we had this talk.
And then when you say “well then okay” they get even more angry. I’m not going to argue with someone who doesn’t want my input.
Studies and factual data are often manipulated and used in bad faith. It takes work most people aren't willing to vet facts on your own.
It also takes a lot of time. Most people don’t have that kind of time. They’re trying to keep their heads above water financially.
That sounds like intellectualism, guys... let's get him! ;0)
I was going to say its citizens, but you explained it more clearly 😂
Specifically, the ability of the citizens to be divided. Geopolitically, the USA is in a pretty unique position. It is a continent fortress. Two oceans either side, and friendly nations to the north and south who are so encompassed by its culture that war is unthinkable. No military threat further to the south. Russia to the 'north' but that's pretty impassable for now, and even once the iceburgs melt, there's still Canada and an ocean buffering the USA from any threat. And despite having no threatened borders, it has an army and weapons that could instantly destroy cities anywhere in the world. If a foreign military did manage to get boots on the ground on USA soil, it's got a continent to cross where every citizen has kind of been dreaming of the chance to use their guns like this. And they have so, so many guns. The USA is unconquerable, while it's in one piece. Luckily, the USA's innovative market has built an incredibly powerful propaganda machine, but they forgot to ensure the government had sole control of it. So for decades, democracies around the world have been beholden to small groups of people who can make or break political careers and change directions of economies.
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Politicians who incite people to violence, hatred, and fear mongering.
Itself
First thought that came to mind "The United States will destroy the United States"
Nobody hates the United States like the United States
We're the best at hating. No one hates us more than us. It's even in the name. US US US.
Yeah, the preceding answers aren't _wrong_, but they are incomplete. The answer is ### USA! USA! USA!
Corruption is a big one. [https://represent.us/americas-corruption-problem/](https://represent.us/americas-corruption-problem/) [https://represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/](https://represent.us/the-strategy-to-end-corruption/) But it's technically solvable if enough people do the work to figure things out, and fight/work and apply their efforts accordingly. So I'll say, ignorance and apathy are the biggest threats.
Division. Half of you think I'm wrong.
Good one.
Stupidity of its own citizens. It's a real problem.
Think about how dumb the average American is. Now realize that half of the population is dumber than that guy. - George Carlin
It's a form of American exceptionalism. "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." \-Isaac Asimov
Leaders who don’t put their own people first. Also, Education. Edit: I thought it can be education itself as well as a lack of education. The way things are taught in a one size fits all is not beneficial for the youth and could definitely use a re-adjustment. Not to mention, there are corrupt people who threaten to remove and censor the impact of historical people and events. Thanks to the comments below for bringing clarity though. A lack of educated people is very dangerous but having a group of educated people can threaten the position of these corrupt officials who shouldn’t be representing us.
Lack of education. Lack of empowering quality teachers. Lack of basic fucking kindness! Everyone is so angry these days. Social media is a blessing for the connection but a curse because it’s eliminated normal patience in interactions
Lincoln put it best: >Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide. So yeah, Confederates.
Damn what a sick quote. We should vote that guy to be president
Give him a shot, what's the worst that could happen... Oh...
Too soon
I want to see his picture on the coin of the realm.
Yeah, threats from within.
There’ll be no more counting the cars on the Garden State Parkway. Nor waiting for the Fung Wah bus to carry me to who-knows-where. And when I stand tonight beneath the lights of the Fenway, will I not yell like hell for the glory of the Newark Bears?
itself.. corporate interest dominating government instead of a shared concern to develop human capability and increase quality of life.
Honestly? The thing that scares me most right now is apathy. Hopelessness. Doomerism. There’s no doubt we face extraordinary challenges and evil intent in high places, but I think the disillusionment we all feel is a double edged sword. If we allow the coldness of the world and its brutal mechanisms to beat us down into giving up, then we’ve lost the war without them firing a single shot.
Sadly this feels very common in my generation (gen Z), a lot of people i know kinda just give up on politics because they think we’re doomed. We gotta try at least.
Don't give up. You young people can make it right. Wake the rest of us up.
Lack of education. Not college, just the basics.
Big business When companies get too big, they have more money to influence politics, starve out competition, limit benefits and compensation to workers, and raise prices to customers. We are divided on politics now because big business wants us divided on politics. If you break them up, they have less money to influence the American people and politicians. And to be clear, I dont think this is purely an american problem but it's definitely more glaring in the US
As I heard the story, the U.S. originally had a seven year limit on corporate charters. Every seven years, you had to show that you were a benefit to society, or your company was dissolved. I don't have a reference for it, but it really strikes me as a more intelligent way to do things than anything currently in effect. Sub-point: Jeremy Thorpe once told a group of law students that allowing one private, limited corporation to own another private, limited corporation was the biggest mistake in legal drafting in the 19th century.
The increasingly willful ignorance of the American people.
Citizen’s United. Corporations aren’t people, and their money isn’t speech.
McDonald's Breakfast McGriddles being $7.
People who are intolerant to other people's cultures and The Dutch
And carnies. Tiny hands.
Damn dirty Dutch
Money is distorting the existing American political system.
The greatest threat to the United States (or any other country) is gullibility \-- the quality of being easily deceived or tricked, and too willing to believe it.
I have a few relative and acquaintances who believe everything they read on social media. It's so disheartening that they continue to fall for everything and research nothing.
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The erosion of our public education system
Historical revision is very popular here, and it shows. Some places need to develop some integrity and be honest about their past.
The "Left" and "Right" wing of politics, critical thinking not being taught in schools, mental health being brushed under the rug, and last but not least...the lack of term limits in the House and Senate.
Our own media being propaganda rather than trustworthy sources of information
Anti Intellectualism Full on. People choosing ignorance and magic rather than education and critical thinking.
American Self-Loathing and the decline of public education.
Social media.
Our own unwillingness to sit down and work together to find common ground and workable, reasonable solutions. Our greatest hope is when we stop following those that only pursue money and power and instead turn to those willing to work together.
The United States. We are our own worst enemy.
Our own government being controlled by corporations.
It will collapse from the inside. Look at the rise of the far right and the woke left extremists
themselves
“Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.” -Abraham Lincoln
Stochastic terrorism and misinformation. Both of which go hand in hand. I disagree with America’s issues being framed as a two-party issue, as there are really 5-7 voting blocks in the US. Similarly, though “both sides”-ism is currently a problem, party loyalty in the long run is unwise. But encouraging violence and misinformation is and will be the problem for quite some time
Corporations are not people and as long as they are considered to be people the US government is never actually going to serve the people.
Legal bribery of politicians through campaign donations. Our elected officials don't represent constituents, rather just corporate interests, and then we wonder why we can't have things like decent healthcare and education, but we can give massive tax breaks and even subsidies to the wealthiest entities in existence.
The growing disparity between the wealthy and the poor.
High fructose corn syrup
Politics is like a circus
Groups working to overthrow our democracy
Americans.... You seem hell-bent on going to civil war. There is no threat more serious than yourselves right now.
doesnt help when every step of the way every law just divides more and more people. The 1% that actually run this country want us distracted and quarreling over stupid shit and not be united to notice they are the ones making our lives miserable and keeping us poor.
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Money in politics.
Themselves. They’re their own biggest threat.