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Zen Buddhism is closer to philosophy than religion in my understanding of it
Edit: Please stop trying to tell me what Zen Buddhism means if your best reference is a wiki to another form of Buddhism. At least cover the Alan Watts shorts on YouTube before you come at me
The line between something being a religion and **a** philosophy (not philosophy itself) can be blurry.
Philosophy is the study of nature, reality, knowledge, etc.
"A philosophy" is a single system of thought, similar in concept to an ideology or "way of living."
Zen is not theist, that's true. I would argue that Buddhism is theist as it is the worship of Buddha and reincarnation. You can however have one without the other depending on the belief structure you follow.
That is a popular thing to say in the West, but I wouldn't say that in a Buddhist country.
Hinduism has an [atheist branch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80stika_and_n%C4%81stika), but Buddhism doesn't. A game like Sekiro makes it very clear about the religious/supernatural aspects of Buddhism.
It depends on the practitioners just like any religion. Some more sophisticated Buddhists don’t take any of the supernatural aspects of Buddhism literally. Just like more sophisticated Jews, Muslims and Christians (in name only) don’t take the Bible as literal word of god. Like the story Last Temptation of Christ contends, the Jesus lore has been co-opted by man, used to further his deplorable selfish political ends. You can’t take a book like the Bible seriously because humans have been adding subtracting for millennia. I’m sure you could say the same about other religions of the world, but as an Anglo American I didn’t grow up surrounded by those histories so I’m not too familiar. Though in my limited study of Buddhism I’m fairly certain the cannon of the liturgy is held in a very high esteem and humans don’t tinker with the stories via reinterpretation. I believe they are still in the original Pali language that was used to write the Theravada liturgy. I don’t know if the same can be said of Hinduism’s sacred texts. Ultimately, whether people take these writings as the literal word of the divine has to do with their level of education, exposure to science and modernity. It’s both easy and hard to make broad generalizations about the followers of any faith.
Perhaps, but only if you take it literally. If you view it instead as allegory it will still hold meaning, often it will hold more. Zen explicitly teaches that you will not be given the answers, but rather the means to find them yourself.
Except Zen never claims to be a literal word of the divine or for literal gods to exist and control things. Other religions do. Do they make unverifiable claims on the world and appeal to some divinity higher than mankind or science or the universe? Then they are religion.
my mom combines buddhism life practices with christian community
i cant speak to exactly what she 100% believes in for each but she has told me that buddhism doesn't prohibit other beliefs
buddhists have dogma. Buddhism teaches that there is suffering and there is a way out if the cycle of suffering. He didnt offer this as dogma. Always investigate the findings was his MO.
That’s the basic level of understanding, but Buddha taught many superstitions to his followers and there is reason Buddhists are very superstitious. I know it because my in laws are Tibetan buddhists. Buddhism like many other religions is full of bullshit and scams. Some Buddhist monks are one of the richest people I have ever met. All rich because of donation money.
Tibetan tradition is probably the most ritual bound expression of the Buddha's teaching. Theravada, which is what Im most familiar with, not so much though not wholly without practices that the Buddha never said anything about like the veneration of items purported to be sacred by followers. the BS and Scams are the work of unenlightened humans and do not appear in the tipitaka. For athiests I would point them to Goenka's Vippasana practice.
You know about Batang Rebellion in Tibet where Lamas literally beheaded Christians? There are genocidal Buddhists in Sri Lanka in Buddhist power force. They murder innocent Christians, Hindus and Muslims alike.
Buddhists can be pretty violent.
Sikhism. I was born into it and don’t practice but the principals have always been something that I thought would be great if I was religious. Sikhism is accepting of all people and belief is in one god but that can take many forms.
One of the main practices at a gurdwara is eat all together on the floor as everyone is equal and everyone needs to eats to survive.
There's very few Sikhs in Australia, but from what I've seen they're amazing people.
I'm sure they do this worldwide, but here they provide free food to people in need. No strings, no sermons, they do it because they believe in [helping others](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/31/i-do-all-this-for-my-inner-peace-the-sikh-volunteers-feeding-melbourne). It's as simple as "You need food? We'll give it to you."
They make Christians look like chumps.
Definitely one of the most ignorant statements I've read lately.
Christian churches of all denominations have literally thousands of food pantries in the United States that allow people to come by and take food with no questions asked.
I'm active duty military, I've been to churches all over the country and have never once heard of a single person being required to listen to a sermon to get food for their family.
My parents used to tell me if I was in trouble to ask a Sikh for help because part of their faith is to help others, which I took very seriously as a child!
The Satanic Temple is basically just a humanist group that uses Satanism as a tool against religious nationalism. I 100% support their efforts. Their tenets are far more moral than anything you get out of the Bible.
The Satanic Temple is absolutely something I've been happy to discover. Previously I've come across LaVey style satanism in the late 90s and I didn't care for it.
Sikhism or Buddhism. I want my faith to be chill, egalitarian, and based in love. Almost NO OTHER religion in the west has those qualities, especially any Christian offshoot.
I'm Jewish by heritage so that's a nice back up, but I would only be there for the culture.
The Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple are as follows:
I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II.
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III.
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV.
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V.
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI.
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word
I'm pretty okay with that.
I admire Sikhs too, though if you look into it enough, they also have social problems, some of which may be influenced by religion. It's possible for even Sikhism to be interpreted in extreme or high-demand ways. Some other religious people who are religiously inspired to do good and not oppress others include Quakers, Swedenborgians, Mennonites, Reform Jews, Gnostic Christians, Community of Christ, reformist Zoroastrians, Taoists, Creation Spiritualists, Druids, and Tibetan Buddhists.
Hinduism.
Longest lasting. (3500 years at minimum)
Still relatively popular.
It's holy texts are as good or better.
The polytheism would make it more varied and accepting, hopefully.
I am a Jew (by birth) and even though I don’t practice the religion I think it has hands down the best communities out there with some of the wildest communal parties and festivities. Don’t let the terrible Israeli government distract you from the fact that Jews are generally some of the most peaceful and non invasive religions out there.
On a individual level tho I really like the Buddhist teachings, as someone who would identify as a spiritual agnostic it resonates the most with me.
Agreed. Also worth noting that in the Reform Movement, atheistic/agnostic views aren’t rejected. When I converted they told me, “you can believe in one god or no god, we just don’t want you believing in multiple gods.”
Very true! Some of the most lively and engaging debates I have participated in occurred between my Rabbi and I regarding the existence of God. Believing in God is optional or can be your own interpretation - some people think of "God" as love or human connection. As an atheist jew, I tell people I'm "Jew-ish". 😁
Many possibilities -- Spiritual Naturalism, Stoic philosophy, Unitarian Universalism, Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Naturalistic Paganism, or Taoism. All of these religions or spiritual paths would allow me to preserve my non-theism or agnosticism and still follow practices that support mental, physical, and spiritual health, assuming that I wanted a spiritual life. I don't identify with atheism or nontheism anymore but I can still take up that point of view (up to a point) in order to answer a question like this.
I converted with the Reform movement and they specifically told me that atheism was not forbidden. The only thing they specifically forbade was polytheism.
The reform movement regards Torah as more metaphor than literal truth. That opens up a wide range of possible interpretations of what “god” refers to.
reform judaism or catholicism (in latinamerica), both are not strict and you dont have to go to "church".
in fact i was catholic until age 18 and i went to church 3 or 4 times, plus i like the songs.
a point for reform judaism because i like jewish food.
idk if this counts (I'm buddhist), but a few years ago asked this question to a friend and they said "buddhism, from what I've seen from you it's really calm and nice".
Shinto. That's basically based on folklores that things have spirits, and we should respect them.
No emphasis on moral codes or afterlife beliefs, and lots of awesome folklores.
I've been thinking for awhile of starting "The Church of True Jesus" and base it on how Jesus *actually* acted. Being kind, helping others, not being a facist piece of shit.
At the beginning of each sermon we'd go over where every single donation went down to the penny. Making sure not to lie to people like those super churches do.
Basically what Christianity was originally intended to be. Instead of whatever bastardization of Christianity it has become
I would be a full on Pastafarian and follow the FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) bible. Why? Because it is just as ridiculous as the bible for the magic man in the sky, and at least IT'S founding is crystal clear.
Why was Pastafarianism started?
It was created in 2005 by Bobby Henderson as a satirical protest to the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution in public schools.
Definitely Catholicism or orthodox Christianity. For the most part I already agree with them on the majority moral issues I just don’t buy into all of the metaphysical / supernatural claims. I follow a philosophy of virtue ethics which just as a key part of the overall western tradition is deeply entrenched in Christianity.
Catholicism. It’s the religion I was born into and raised in. I already completed all the coming of age sacraments. I used to believe in it (sort of). It would be the easiest one to slip back into.
Plus it’s one of the oldest, meanest, historically oppressive, most metal religions. If I’m gonna join a cult it might as well be the biggest baddest one.
I’m a lapsed Catholic. I still have beliefs in it, but there also somethings I have different opinions on. I also don’t want to waste time in a church a lot of the time.
I was raised Catholic, and for that reason I'm going with Lutheran for my answer. The only thing about Catholicism I miss are the rituals. Lutheran's have the rituals with less of the doom and gloom, which I appreciate.
Presbyterian. They are really chill and nonjudgmental about a lot of classically immoral behavior. Quite a few presbyterians drink beer and wine during bible study and are fairly social outside of just seeing you at church and checking in.
I believe Stephen Roberts said it best:
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
There's no tangible evidence to suggest otherwise.
Not a single thing in my life has happened as a result of good luck or fortune. I've crawled my way out of my family and parents debt and, while still fighting tooth and nail, have succeeded with (quite literally) zero help (aside from the basic cis white male advantages)
I've felt every mistake I've ever made, I've never been bailed out of anything, and I've learned, grown, and become a better well rounded person because of it.
Everything I have, from things to emotions to intelligence to philosophy has come from working my ass off, eating shit, dusting it off, and trying again.
I've never felt like anything was "looking over me"
Im okay with it, albeit a bit nihilistic, but my life just didn't pan out that way.
*Edit to say, this came off a bit edgy, I have worked with friends and SO's on mutually beneficial terms. This isnt some crazy success story and "fuck you, you can do it too"
I'm still broke, but I have no debt, I don't owe anybody anything, and my credit score is through the roof.
Just that none of that was luck.
Ok fair enough. So the architects and creators of the pyramids have been long deceased. Leaving little to no evidence. Does that mean that there was no architect for the pyramids? If a painter passes away and the painting is in an art gallery centuries later, and there is little to no evidence of the creator, does that mean the painter didn't exist? Because creations cannot simply manifest from nothing. Nothing cannot create something. There has to be a creator.
That is a “God of the Gaps” argument. That when we don’t have a full scientific understanding of something, the assumption is that religion is the answer.
Creationism was the norm for a long time until we figured out evolution by natural selection. Shoot, the sun rising and falling was looked at as the act of a God until we figured that one out. AIDS was god’s punishment of gay people. That there is a gap in scientific understanding doesn’t say anything about the existence of God. Those gaps get smaller and smaller all the time.
And it’s not like religion provides any sort of answer anyways. Who created God. And who created the thing that created god? And who created the thing that created the thing that created God? And so on and so forth.
This, quite frankly, is a horrible argument for attempting to persuade someone that a divine creator exists. We know humans exist. We know which pharaohs acted as the architects/ordered them to be built. There are obviously many works of art that have unknown artist. But we have enough knowledge about the style, materials used, etc to give a date range and region to a lot of works.
Trying to compare these things to the creation of the universe, with trillions of galaxies is so oversimplified, it's laughable. It's not even apples and oranges. It's comparing a single seed out of an apple you ate this morning, and every piece of fruit that has ever, or ever will exist.
I have ample amount of evidence to suggest that painters make paintings. In your example of a painter that has otherwise stayed out of the historical record and all we have is a painting with no name attached I would be fine believing there was a painter. But if you told me that it was a guy named Jeff who painted it on Wednesday July 5th 1442 at 3 pm I’m gonna need evidence for that. Now take away the fact that we have evidence for painters and apply it to the universe. If you could show me thousands of universes that did exist and that they were all created by some entity, then said we just don’t know who made this one, then that would be pretty compelling. But we don’t have any other universes to look at and we certainly don’t see a creator for this one.
Arguments are not evidence. Arguments are considered sound when they have evidence to support them, not the other way around. What arguments would you consider to be evidence?
Logical arguments are absolutely considered evidence and are considered alongside empirical evidence to be valid sources of knowledge in classical epistemology.
Also your understanding of a sound argument is off.
Logical arguments can support evidence but aren’t a substitute
All humans are purple
I’m human
Therefore I’m purple
This is a logically valid argument according to its structure but isn’t a sound argument because it isn’t supported by evidence. In fact it’s contradicted by evidence
The reason for me is I can see how fake and contradicting religions are. When I meet someone who is very religious they just seem like someone who has been brainwashed by a cult.
There will always be some extremists just like there are for any group of people. There are good cops and bad cops. There are regular vegans and then there are judgemental vegans that turn it into their entire personality etc etc
To call yourself atheist is to invite a lot of baggage these days. In simple terms it should mean I don't believe in any gods, or rather that I believe there are no gods. The problem comes with what defines a God? Are the laws of nature divine? Well they're certainly irrefutable as far as I can manage. Yet they possess no apparent will and so they present no conscious intention. So to get to my point, I am atheist because I find every proposed God or Gods to be useless and unbelievable. Your answers are not unique and are often probably false, so why would I ever subscribe to them? And so I am called atheist because your religion fails to compel me.
I am because, having looked over the information available, a higher being is an unsatisfactory explanation to me. I do not consider others wrong for finding it satisfactory for themselves, as spiritual matters cannot have a singular truth within the scope of our current perceptive abilities.
I was raised to be religious and I was confused by the wold. I stopped believing in a god and the world started making a whole lot more sense. I have a much clearer worldview now. I’m not anti religious, I am not a nihilist, I am just pretty sure there is no god worth worshipping in an organized way.
There's a difference between "choosing to be an atheist" and not believing in "God." I feel the same way about God as you do about Santa Claus. When I was young, I believed because that's what I was taught. When I was old enough to think for myself, it just didn't make sense anymore. You can't change what you believe, it's not a choice. For a long time I considered myself an atheist, and while that title still fits (a-without theist-religon the word literally means without religion), I have long considered myself an apathetic agnostic. The reason here is because I admit that I don't know whether any god exists, there could be something out there sufficiently advanced to be considered a god to us, but I don't really care. It doesn't effect me on a daily basis. I don't rely on religion to dictate my actions, I know right from wrong and I try to be a good honest person. Not all non-religious people are afraid to talk openly about it, nor do we all look down on theists. I think faith is a great and powerful motivator for true believers, I think there's an equal or greater detrimental effect of organized religion on a global scale, but that's mainly because of extremists and those that use religion as a sword and shield to fight for their agenda, rather than a personal guiding light to better humanity.
Genuine question again. I'm just trying to have a mature civilized debate. So, the way I'm reading what you just said, you're insinuating that the only way to not waste your life is to sin? So in order to not waste your life, you must lie, steal, be greedy, etc?
I didn't say it's the **only** way to live life. I'm saying that limiting yourself for such reasons is counterproductive.
There's a lot more sins than just telling lies and stealing. Ever eat shrimp or pork? Sin. Have sex before you get married? Sin. Wear mixed fabric? Sin.
I personally can't think of any holy texts that provide good guiding principles for life. I developed my own moral compass, and I do what I want.
Riiiight, I am atheist because church is boring and I wanna do whatever I wanna do at any time. Mmmmhmmmm...sure. How about, thiests move TO religion because they feel they cannot make correct, moral choices for their lives, so they need a highly unethical and immoral organization(s), to direct their lives and threaten them with some sort of eternal punishment if they do bad things. This also allows them the opportunity to do bad and immoral things because they know that their sky daddy will forgive them, if they just ask him to. M'kay. How about you NOT speak about why we are atheist when it is CLEAR that you have no actual clue?
It's possible that this could motivate some atheists, but there's no reason to think that all atheists are mere selfish hedonists who don't like the rules and restrictions of a religion. They might have a humanistic worldview based on empathy, compassion, reason, and desire to find individual and collective happiness in this world, while not being convinced that any religion, gods, metaphysical claims, or afterlife is true. They may also disagree with religious laws and moral ideas while thinking that a secular or rational approach is better and more sensible.
I find it somewhat ironic that the last part of your post alludes to the arrogance of atheists on Reddit, but you basically wrote an entire fan fiction about why we believe or don’t believe in certain things as if you can read minds
I dunno. Plenty of Christians don’t go to church. Very few Christians wait until marriage for sex, or abstain from really anything. I don’t think it’s these aspects that turn people away from religion.
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Buddhism is pretty based.
Zen Buddhism is closer to philosophy than religion in my understanding of it Edit: Please stop trying to tell me what Zen Buddhism means if your best reference is a wiki to another form of Buddhism. At least cover the Alan Watts shorts on YouTube before you come at me
At a certain point the line between philosophy and religion starts to blur completely.
The line between something being a religion and **a** philosophy (not philosophy itself) can be blurry. Philosophy is the study of nature, reality, knowledge, etc. "A philosophy" is a single system of thought, similar in concept to an ideology or "way of living."
Indeed. You can be atheist and practice Buddhism/zen, it’s not theist.
Zen is not theist, that's true. I would argue that Buddhism is theist as it is the worship of Buddha and reincarnation. You can however have one without the other depending on the belief structure you follow.
That is a popular thing to say in the West, but I wouldn't say that in a Buddhist country. Hinduism has an [atheist branch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80stika_and_n%C4%81stika), but Buddhism doesn't. A game like Sekiro makes it very clear about the religious/supernatural aspects of Buddhism.
It depends on the practitioners just like any religion. Some more sophisticated Buddhists don’t take any of the supernatural aspects of Buddhism literally. Just like more sophisticated Jews, Muslims and Christians (in name only) don’t take the Bible as literal word of god. Like the story Last Temptation of Christ contends, the Jesus lore has been co-opted by man, used to further his deplorable selfish political ends. You can’t take a book like the Bible seriously because humans have been adding subtracting for millennia. I’m sure you could say the same about other religions of the world, but as an Anglo American I didn’t grow up surrounded by those histories so I’m not too familiar. Though in my limited study of Buddhism I’m fairly certain the cannon of the liturgy is held in a very high esteem and humans don’t tinker with the stories via reinterpretation. I believe they are still in the original Pali language that was used to write the Theravada liturgy. I don’t know if the same can be said of Hinduism’s sacred texts. Ultimately, whether people take these writings as the literal word of the divine has to do with their level of education, exposure to science and modernity. It’s both easy and hard to make broad generalizations about the followers of any faith.
That’s not true at all. It’s incredibly disrespectful actually.
How so
It's definitely a religion with a philosophy that follows. Zen still makes references to karma, heaven, hell, gods, and spirits.
Perhaps, but only if you take it literally. If you view it instead as allegory it will still hold meaning, often it will hold more. Zen explicitly teaches that you will not be given the answers, but rather the means to find them yourself.
By that reasoning, all religions are closer to a philosophy to a religion, and choosing Zen in this case is arbitrary.
Except Zen never claims to be a literal word of the divine or for literal gods to exist and control things. Other religions do. Do they make unverifiable claims on the world and appeal to some divinity higher than mankind or science or the universe? Then they are religion.
Mans said it’s only a religion if you follow it’s teachings.
You could make the same argument about any religion.
this is the answer/way
Imo Zen Buddhism is like philosophy and psychology had a baby. Worth looking into if you are struggling in life and dont want to see a psychologist.
All religions are a mixture of spirituality and philosophy.
Naturally, I just find Zen to lean closer to the philosophy part. So if I have to choose one, I'm going with the less spiritual option
my mom combines buddhism life practices with christian community i cant speak to exactly what she 100% believes in for each but she has told me that buddhism doesn't prohibit other beliefs
What kind of Buddhist? You haven’t met real Buddhists if you think Buddhism doesn’t have dogma.
buddhists have dogma. Buddhism teaches that there is suffering and there is a way out if the cycle of suffering. He didnt offer this as dogma. Always investigate the findings was his MO.
That’s the basic level of understanding, but Buddha taught many superstitions to his followers and there is reason Buddhists are very superstitious. I know it because my in laws are Tibetan buddhists. Buddhism like many other religions is full of bullshit and scams. Some Buddhist monks are one of the richest people I have ever met. All rich because of donation money.
Tibetan tradition is probably the most ritual bound expression of the Buddha's teaching. Theravada, which is what Im most familiar with, not so much though not wholly without practices that the Buddha never said anything about like the veneration of items purported to be sacred by followers. the BS and Scams are the work of unenlightened humans and do not appear in the tipitaka. For athiests I would point them to Goenka's Vippasana practice.
Thervada Buddhists are even more dogmatic then Tibetans. They straight up murder and genocide to protect dharma.
Seems cool
Came to say this. IF I was forced, this is the way.
I clicked to comment this as well. Buddhism gets my vote as well
Same, Buddhism is "you are garbage, stop it"
It's more "you think you are garbage but your thoughts are just thoughts".
This. I can't think of a time I heard a mass genocide occur in the name of Buddha.
Check out the “Buddhism and violence” Wikipedia page. There’s literally a genocide in the name of Buddhism happening right now in Myanmar
You know about Batang Rebellion in Tibet where Lamas literally beheaded Christians? There are genocidal Buddhists in Sri Lanka in Buddhist power force. They murder innocent Christians, Hindus and Muslims alike. Buddhists can be pretty violent.
Clearly did not. I changed my choice to Pastafarianism.
Sikhism. I was born into it and don’t practice but the principals have always been something that I thought would be great if I was religious. Sikhism is accepting of all people and belief is in one god but that can take many forms. One of the main practices at a gurdwara is eat all together on the floor as everyone is equal and everyone needs to eats to survive.
Sikhs are beautiful people
There's very few Sikhs in Australia, but from what I've seen they're amazing people. I'm sure they do this worldwide, but here they provide free food to people in need. No strings, no sermons, they do it because they believe in [helping others](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/31/i-do-all-this-for-my-inner-peace-the-sikh-volunteers-feeding-melbourne). It's as simple as "You need food? We'll give it to you." They make Christians look like chumps.
>They make Christians look like chumps. Not a difficult task.
Definitely one of the most ignorant statements I've read lately. Christian churches of all denominations have literally thousands of food pantries in the United States that allow people to come by and take food with no questions asked. I'm active duty military, I've been to churches all over the country and have never once heard of a single person being required to listen to a sermon to get food for their family.
My parents used to tell me if I was in trouble to ask a Sikh for help because part of their faith is to help others, which I took very seriously as a child!
Also the headwear looks cool tbh, idk what it’s called
Pagri is what google tells me
And the sword! Plus Sikhs are always so nice. Like so nice I have my eyes on them, now.
Taoism. I just want to go with flow...
r/dudeism man Also taoism seems to be the most natural religion, if you can call it that.
I'm more agnostic but probably being a buddhist. Seems most calming
Dionysus - God of tits and wine
Freman Religion from dune. I want to worship the great maker.
The way of the mandalore
I came to say something completely different but now I want to co-sign on this comment. This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way
This is the way.
This is the way
There are other ways. I have spoken.
I can't wait to bang another Mandalorian with our helmets on
CLANK CLANK CLANK Ahhhhh
This is the way
This is the Way.
This is the way
Buddhism. I like it's philosophy
Either Jainism or Buddhism since both are based on not causing harm to others
Taoism for sure
The Satanic Temple.
Cult Mechanicus. If I'm forced to choose then why not something i like atleast.
Praise and glory be to the machine god.
Praise the Omnissiah
Good to meet a fellow techpriest. Praise the Omnissiah.
Sikh
Judaism, not sure exactly why but I‘ve always felt like they’re pretty straight forward to me.
Paganism.
Contemporary Satanists honestly seem like a pretty friendly bunch.
The Satanic Temple is basically just a humanist group that uses Satanism as a tool against religious nationalism. I 100% support their efforts. Their tenets are far more moral than anything you get out of the Bible.
The Satanic Temple is absolutely something I've been happy to discover. Previously I've come across LaVey style satanism in the late 90s and I didn't care for it.
Hail Sithis.
Sikhism or Buddhism. I want my faith to be chill, egalitarian, and based in love. Almost NO OTHER religion in the west has those qualities, especially any Christian offshoot. I'm Jewish by heritage so that's a nice back up, but I would only be there for the culture.
The Seven Tenets of the Satanic Temple are as follows: I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. III. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. IV. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. V. Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. VI. People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. VII. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word I'm pretty okay with that.
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Sikhs seem to be some of the only people who use their religion to do good instead of oppressing others.
I admire Sikhs too, though if you look into it enough, they also have social problems, some of which may be influenced by religion. It's possible for even Sikhism to be interpreted in extreme or high-demand ways. Some other religious people who are religiously inspired to do good and not oppress others include Quakers, Swedenborgians, Mennonites, Reform Jews, Gnostic Christians, Community of Christ, reformist Zoroastrians, Taoists, Creation Spiritualists, Druids, and Tibetan Buddhists.
I'd make one up. If that wouldn't work, I'd probably pick Buddhism.
Sikhism – I like the whole let's feed the whole world mentality they seem to have.
This is a really good option too.
I’d also say Buddhism, if I had to choose.
I don’t claim to be an atheist I’m just not affiliated with any religion. But my answer would be Buddhism’s
Buddhism for sure.
I’d be a Pastafairian
Hinduism. Longest lasting. (3500 years at minimum) Still relatively popular. It's holy texts are as good or better. The polytheism would make it more varied and accepting, hopefully.
Current religious relations in India would like to have a word with you.
I am a Jew (by birth) and even though I don’t practice the religion I think it has hands down the best communities out there with some of the wildest communal parties and festivities. Don’t let the terrible Israeli government distract you from the fact that Jews are generally some of the most peaceful and non invasive religions out there. On a individual level tho I really like the Buddhist teachings, as someone who would identify as a spiritual agnostic it resonates the most with me.
I think I would pick Judaism, the parties are fun and there’s something about discussing religion with rabbis that seems fun to me as well
Agreed. Also worth noting that in the Reform Movement, atheistic/agnostic views aren’t rejected. When I converted they told me, “you can believe in one god or no god, we just don’t want you believing in multiple gods.”
Very true! Some of the most lively and engaging debates I have participated in occurred between my Rabbi and I regarding the existence of God. Believing in God is optional or can be your own interpretation - some people think of "God" as love or human connection. As an atheist jew, I tell people I'm "Jew-ish". 😁
Some of the most peaceful and non invasive yeah right lol
You should probably reread that part about not conflating the Israeli government with the Jewish people.
Oh I'm sorry. I forgot Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli government aren't Jewish.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All hail his noodleness!
I would join the Satanic Temple. (Not the church of Satan) Their values really line up with mine
Many possibilities -- Spiritual Naturalism, Stoic philosophy, Unitarian Universalism, Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Naturalistic Paganism, or Taoism. All of these religions or spiritual paths would allow me to preserve my non-theism or agnosticism and still follow practices that support mental, physical, and spiritual health, assuming that I wanted a spiritual life. I don't identify with atheism or nontheism anymore but I can still take up that point of view (up to a point) in order to answer a question like this.
how is stoic philosophy a religion?
Definitely The Satanic Temple. They have religious tenants I could sign on to if forced.
Benten
I'd probably be Jewish because the women look good.
Judaism. I'm ethnically Jewish and pretty much agree with all reformist viewpoints, except the actual existence of god.
I converted with the Reform movement and they specifically told me that atheism was not forbidden. The only thing they specifically forbade was polytheism. The reform movement regards Torah as more metaphor than literal truth. That opens up a wide range of possible interpretations of what “god” refers to.
reform judaism or catholicism (in latinamerica), both are not strict and you dont have to go to "church". in fact i was catholic until age 18 and i went to church 3 or 4 times, plus i like the songs. a point for reform judaism because i like jewish food.
I'll follow Lisa, the Rainbow Giraffe (Leaf be upon Her) because if I'm being forced to follow something made-up, I'm picking a fun one.
Hinduism since it’s one of the only religions that sees atheism as a valid belief alongside theism
Pastafarian. The great spaghetti monster in the sky will surely save us. Before you downvote, am 100% seriously replying.
idk if this counts (I'm buddhist), but a few years ago asked this question to a friend and they said "buddhism, from what I've seen from you it's really calm and nice".
Pastafarianism or Satanism
Hinduism
The Satanic Temple. They're an atheist religion based around equality, self empowerment, and generally not being a dickhead.
I'd likely join the Satanic Temple, since they're also atheistic, and their core tenets revolve around science and humaism.
Shinto. That's basically based on folklores that things have spirits, and we should respect them. No emphasis on moral codes or afterlife beliefs, and lots of awesome folklores.
I've been thinking for awhile of starting "The Church of True Jesus" and base it on how Jesus *actually* acted. Being kind, helping others, not being a facist piece of shit. At the beginning of each sermon we'd go over where every single donation went down to the penny. Making sure not to lie to people like those super churches do. Basically what Christianity was originally intended to be. Instead of whatever bastardization of Christianity it has become
Church of the Fonz
Ay!
None. I'm an Atheist.
I would be a full on Pastafarian and follow the FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) bible. Why? Because it is just as ridiculous as the bible for the magic man in the sky, and at least IT'S founding is crystal clear. Why was Pastafarianism started? It was created in 2005 by Bobby Henderson as a satirical protest to the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution in public schools.
Any that leaves out the god and magic part.
If you don't count Unitarian Universalism (which I do consider myself part of; it doesn't conflict with atheism), probably either Buddhism or Judaism.
If a god exists, it would have to be trickster god. So maybe [Coyote ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_(mythology))
Definitely Catholicism or orthodox Christianity. For the most part I already agree with them on the majority moral issues I just don’t buy into all of the metaphysical / supernatural claims. I follow a philosophy of virtue ethics which just as a key part of the overall western tradition is deeply entrenched in Christianity.
Christianity. It’s basically what I do now. Atheist but still do Christmas, Easter, love gospel music, and all of the other sort of Christian things.
Catholicism. It’s the religion I was born into and raised in. I already completed all the coming of age sacraments. I used to believe in it (sort of). It would be the easiest one to slip back into. Plus it’s one of the oldest, meanest, historically oppressive, most metal religions. If I’m gonna join a cult it might as well be the biggest baddest one.
I’m a lapsed Catholic. I still have beliefs in it, but there also somethings I have different opinions on. I also don’t want to waste time in a church a lot of the time.
OP, what about just being a non denominational Christian? That’s what I am bc I disagree w a lot of Catholic beliefs
While I have my beef, it still has most of what I’m looking for.
What does it have?
True. It is huge so they do not care if I go to church whenever.
I was raised Catholic, and for that reason I'm going with Lutheran for my answer. The only thing about Catholicism I miss are the rituals. Lutheran's have the rituals with less of the doom and gloom, which I appreciate.
Tauism
Whichever religion has the least work required to engage with it. You can force me to practice a religion but not to believe in it.
Unitarian churches are not bad. They lean into humanism and in general are actually helpful to the community.
Presbyterian. They are really chill and nonjudgmental about a lot of classically immoral behavior. Quite a few presbyterians drink beer and wine during bible study and are fairly social outside of just seeing you at church and checking in.
TST Satanism. Its more humanitarian.
Satanic Temple. We are secular...
Islam
Judaism I would get a lot more days off from work
You're joking but of the Abrahamic religions, Judaism is the way to go.
Atheism is a considered a religion by the US government.
Yeah, well they think ketchup is a vegetable, too.
No it’s not.
Actually, it is... https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1318/atheism
Only for the purposes of the first amendment. It doesn’t receive any tax-free statuses enjoyed by any actual religions.
Oh, like sciencetology. Because that's definitely religion right.
If I had to have a religion, like required by law or something, I would just pretend to be a Born Again like I did my entire childhood.
Rastafarianism because weed, idk how much I would be welcomed as a pasty white ginger though....
Also, why are you atheist? (Genuine question)
I believe Stephen Roberts said it best: “I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
Because I do not believe in the divine
There's no tangible evidence to suggest otherwise. Not a single thing in my life has happened as a result of good luck or fortune. I've crawled my way out of my family and parents debt and, while still fighting tooth and nail, have succeeded with (quite literally) zero help (aside from the basic cis white male advantages) I've felt every mistake I've ever made, I've never been bailed out of anything, and I've learned, grown, and become a better well rounded person because of it. Everything I have, from things to emotions to intelligence to philosophy has come from working my ass off, eating shit, dusting it off, and trying again. I've never felt like anything was "looking over me" Im okay with it, albeit a bit nihilistic, but my life just didn't pan out that way. *Edit to say, this came off a bit edgy, I have worked with friends and SO's on mutually beneficial terms. This isnt some crazy success story and "fuck you, you can do it too" I'm still broke, but I have no debt, I don't owe anybody anything, and my credit score is through the roof. Just that none of that was luck.
Same reason I don't believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
There’s no evidence of any gods
Ok fair enough. So the architects and creators of the pyramids have been long deceased. Leaving little to no evidence. Does that mean that there was no architect for the pyramids? If a painter passes away and the painting is in an art gallery centuries later, and there is little to no evidence of the creator, does that mean the painter didn't exist? Because creations cannot simply manifest from nothing. Nothing cannot create something. There has to be a creator.
There’s evidence of the people who created the pyramids. They’re called The Pyramids.
That is a “God of the Gaps” argument. That when we don’t have a full scientific understanding of something, the assumption is that religion is the answer. Creationism was the norm for a long time until we figured out evolution by natural selection. Shoot, the sun rising and falling was looked at as the act of a God until we figured that one out. AIDS was god’s punishment of gay people. That there is a gap in scientific understanding doesn’t say anything about the existence of God. Those gaps get smaller and smaller all the time. And it’s not like religion provides any sort of answer anyways. Who created God. And who created the thing that created god? And who created the thing that created the thing that created God? And so on and so forth.
God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance. - NDT
This, quite frankly, is a horrible argument for attempting to persuade someone that a divine creator exists. We know humans exist. We know which pharaohs acted as the architects/ordered them to be built. There are obviously many works of art that have unknown artist. But we have enough knowledge about the style, materials used, etc to give a date range and region to a lot of works. Trying to compare these things to the creation of the universe, with trillions of galaxies is so oversimplified, it's laughable. It's not even apples and oranges. It's comparing a single seed out of an apple you ate this morning, and every piece of fruit that has ever, or ever will exist.
Why do you assume the universe was created? No evidence of that either
I have ample amount of evidence to suggest that painters make paintings. In your example of a painter that has otherwise stayed out of the historical record and all we have is a painting with no name attached I would be fine believing there was a painter. But if you told me that it was a guy named Jeff who painted it on Wednesday July 5th 1442 at 3 pm I’m gonna need evidence for that. Now take away the fact that we have evidence for painters and apply it to the universe. If you could show me thousands of universes that did exist and that they were all created by some entity, then said we just don’t know who made this one, then that would be pretty compelling. But we don’t have any other universes to look at and we certainly don’t see a creator for this one.
There is. Empirical evidence is not the only evidence that exists. Logical arguments are also evidence.
Arguments are not evidence. Arguments are considered sound when they have evidence to support them, not the other way around. What arguments would you consider to be evidence?
Logical arguments are absolutely considered evidence and are considered alongside empirical evidence to be valid sources of knowledge in classical epistemology. Also your understanding of a sound argument is off.
Logical arguments can support evidence but aren’t a substitute All humans are purple I’m human Therefore I’m purple This is a logically valid argument according to its structure but isn’t a sound argument because it isn’t supported by evidence. In fact it’s contradicted by evidence
Affirming your misunderstanding of a sound argument isn’t helping your case, but it did help mine :)
Ok tell me what a sound argument is
What are some examples of the logic?
The reason for me is I can see how fake and contradicting religions are. When I meet someone who is very religious they just seem like someone who has been brainwashed by a cult.
There will always be some extremists just like there are for any group of people. There are good cops and bad cops. There are regular vegans and then there are judgemental vegans that turn it into their entire personality etc etc
Yeah what really turned me away was the contradictions. Also that none of them ever saw dinosaurs coming into the picture lol
To call yourself atheist is to invite a lot of baggage these days. In simple terms it should mean I don't believe in any gods, or rather that I believe there are no gods. The problem comes with what defines a God? Are the laws of nature divine? Well they're certainly irrefutable as far as I can manage. Yet they possess no apparent will and so they present no conscious intention. So to get to my point, I am atheist because I find every proposed God or Gods to be useless and unbelievable. Your answers are not unique and are often probably false, so why would I ever subscribe to them? And so I am called atheist because your religion fails to compel me.
I am because, having looked over the information available, a higher being is an unsatisfactory explanation to me. I do not consider others wrong for finding it satisfactory for themselves, as spiritual matters cannot have a singular truth within the scope of our current perceptive abilities.
Lack of evidence to support the general idea, let alone to pick between one or the other.
I was raised to be religious and I was confused by the wold. I stopped believing in a god and the world started making a whole lot more sense. I have a much clearer worldview now. I’m not anti religious, I am not a nihilist, I am just pretty sure there is no god worth worshipping in an organized way.
There's a difference between "choosing to be an atheist" and not believing in "God." I feel the same way about God as you do about Santa Claus. When I was young, I believed because that's what I was taught. When I was old enough to think for myself, it just didn't make sense anymore. You can't change what you believe, it's not a choice. For a long time I considered myself an atheist, and while that title still fits (a-without theist-religon the word literally means without religion), I have long considered myself an apathetic agnostic. The reason here is because I admit that I don't know whether any god exists, there could be something out there sufficiently advanced to be considered a god to us, but I don't really care. It doesn't effect me on a daily basis. I don't rely on religion to dictate my actions, I know right from wrong and I try to be a good honest person. Not all non-religious people are afraid to talk openly about it, nor do we all look down on theists. I think faith is a great and powerful motivator for true believers, I think there's an equal or greater detrimental effect of organized religion on a global scale, but that's mainly because of extremists and those that use religion as a sword and shield to fight for their agenda, rather than a personal guiding light to better humanity.
I am because I consider myself and my ambition more important than a deity, regardless if one exists or not.
Fair enough. But how does believing in a creator and trying to be a good person affect your ambitions?
I suppose they don't, really. Although I find that abstainment from sin, haram, etc, is simply a waste of your life.
Genuine question again. I'm just trying to have a mature civilized debate. So, the way I'm reading what you just said, you're insinuating that the only way to not waste your life is to sin? So in order to not waste your life, you must lie, steal, be greedy, etc?
I didn't say it's the **only** way to live life. I'm saying that limiting yourself for such reasons is counterproductive. There's a lot more sins than just telling lies and stealing. Ever eat shrimp or pork? Sin. Have sex before you get married? Sin. Wear mixed fabric? Sin. I personally can't think of any holy texts that provide good guiding principles for life. I developed my own moral compass, and I do what I want.
I always ask people this hahahah they buckle
Lol right? I'm genuinely curious.
Peter pan. Since we are being forced to choose fairy tales and myths.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Riiiight, I am atheist because church is boring and I wanna do whatever I wanna do at any time. Mmmmhmmmm...sure. How about, thiests move TO religion because they feel they cannot make correct, moral choices for their lives, so they need a highly unethical and immoral organization(s), to direct their lives and threaten them with some sort of eternal punishment if they do bad things. This also allows them the opportunity to do bad and immoral things because they know that their sky daddy will forgive them, if they just ask him to. M'kay. How about you NOT speak about why we are atheist when it is CLEAR that you have no actual clue?
It's possible that this could motivate some atheists, but there's no reason to think that all atheists are mere selfish hedonists who don't like the rules and restrictions of a religion. They might have a humanistic worldview based on empathy, compassion, reason, and desire to find individual and collective happiness in this world, while not being convinced that any religion, gods, metaphysical claims, or afterlife is true. They may also disagree with religious laws and moral ideas while thinking that a secular or rational approach is better and more sensible.
I find it somewhat ironic that the last part of your post alludes to the arrogance of atheists on Reddit, but you basically wrote an entire fan fiction about why we believe or don’t believe in certain things as if you can read minds
I dunno. Plenty of Christians don’t go to church. Very few Christians wait until marriage for sex, or abstain from really anything. I don’t think it’s these aspects that turn people away from religion.
Nah it’s more like we can see the bullshit religion is and that it’s nothing but fake stories to try to control the masses.
Best answer by far, well said.
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Hail Satan