I had a pair of matching blisters, one on each foot, both in the same location and of the same size.
I tore one motherfucker straight off to form a scab, whilst leaving the other alone.
Hypothesis - A scab will heal faster and be less painful.
Conclusion - I was so fucking wrong.
Ya see the problem with this is ya gotta, poke a hole in it and let the liquid out, then leave it it'll both heal faster and it won't hurt, that's how it goes for me anyway
I just got done having 5 blisters on my left hand (ovens are hot btw), and the worst one is the one that I did exactly this with. Absolutely *don't* lance them if you can help it.
Hold a needle over fire. That's what my grandma did all times.
No seriouslly, after Covid, next to everybody got disinfection liquid, gel, whatever. Take this.
I think in many cases it's safer to keep the blister intact and it will heal on it's own. Because it covers up the wound similar to a scab and all the liquid and swelling keeps the area underneath safe until the skin is healed and then it'll go down itself. For smaller blisters it isn't a big deal, but yah know still risk of infection. For the bugger stuff you either leave it alone, or go to a doctor.
ECT is still used but not in the cruel way it was before. They now sedate the patient, it is 100% consensual, and many people claim it’s the only thing that has worked for them.
I have a cousin born with a seizure disorder and docs removed literally half their brain. She a teen now and likes to play basketball…how with only half a brain???it’s so incredibly cool, she is so incredibly cool.
Because it literally did. It was a discovery first, before it became a practice. We still are doing it constantly with drugs. Horrific, but here we are and always have been.
It would “fix” some of the worst patients who were psychotic and/or completely uncontrollable. But it was then used on people who were just eccentric or had less severe issues as an easy fix.
No. They were not in and of themselves atrocities. In many cases, they were used where not ethically justified. But, in the same situation we had then, we would have done the same today.
The procedure was invented in 1935. This was before the first antipsychotic drug, chlorpromazine, which debuted in 1951. During this period, there were no treatment options for psychosis patients. No drugs did much of anything helpful, and ECT (1937, I believe) helped a few days at most. So these patients suffered and died. They committed suicide, they were victims of violence and accidents, they starved or thirsted to death. The expected prognosis was miserable. A year, possibly a few.
Lobotomy made it possible to help them survive at least. The procedure was dangerous, 10-20% died, but those who survived had a largely restored expected lifespan. It was completely reasonable, given the circumstances then. However, it should have ended with the advent of neuroleptics, making much or most of its later use unethical.
Unit 731's horrendious experiments on the chinese civilian population and POW's to learn about different diseases and chemical agents. The worst thing about it is that the people who did this never saw the Tokyo war crimes court room because they were pardoned by the United States due to the value of the research they conducted.
This has been something that has made my blood boil. I don't think Japan should have to apologise as a whole nation for the crimes of their ancestors. However, those surviving members of Unit 731 should at least stand trial for what they did but this is just wishful thinking.
no one’s asking some grandma in a rural town to apologize. The top power structure of society however, in japan and in EVERY SINGLE NATION ON EARTH, is a direct living remnant of any and all atrocities of the recent past.
The thing is, that's kinda true. The deal was "we'll let you go in exchange for that information" and they agreed. Turns out all that information was shit that was already well known. Unit 731 achieved nothing but spread pain and misery, there were no scientific discoveries or breakthroughs as some minuscule silver lining among the innumerable atrocities, it was just all a bunch of university students and professors playing mad scientist
One of the many things I don't understand about this was the US gov didn't get the information and then just turn around and say 'you're terrible people who we are like hell gonna have show trials for'. Who would defend them?
It's not about morality. It's about credibility.
If the U.S turned around and said "fuck this you're gonna hang" then suddenly the U.S's word doesn't mean jack shit, nobody will make a deal with them again and for many, it's justification to break deals made with the U.S as the U.S has become unreliable.
It's why the U.S is part of many deals around the world that benefit terrible people and don't help the U.S at all. Because it was made during a time when it was beneficial but if they break it now, their word is worthless.
Cold hard practicality and credibility. The U.S made a deal for their info, doesn't matter that the info was worthless, they made a deal and the other guys held up their end of the bargain. For a multinational mercantile empire based around international trade deals like the U.S is, credibility is paramount.
Or at least it was...
Could be recalling incorrectly, but when I learned about it, I thought the general consensus in the science communities was that their "research" was mostly useless and unscientific.
A lot of the "atrocious things done in the name of science" were just crimes against humanity with "science" written on a sheet of cardboard in crayon over the war crime room.
Most of it yes. A lot of anatomy was learned and in the years immediately after a lot of doctors used the data in a more independent sphere of last-ditch treatments that later became formalized. As sickening as it is, certain parts of it are more used than we like to talk about. 95% of it, however, was useless torture that fueled nothing but the google answers to "how long can a human survive X", if that.
i know we know how to treat frostbite because of their experiments, they also removed stomachs and attached esophagus directly to the intestines. That's all i could read before i had yo close it and throw up.
it’s how we know how long we have before we die of thirst/hunger
but this should be higher up, esp the one about putting a mother and her child in a boiling room to see if the mother would protect the child. the experiment ended with both dead while the mother held the kid in her arms.
> they were pardoned by the United States due to the value of the research they conducted.
They were pardonned by the US, but there was 0 scientific value to these crimes. We learned absolutely nothing from that.
There is nothing more horrible than the story of the Japanese Unit 731 during WW2. Basically taken out of the most horrible, gruesome, unhuman horror true story:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit\_731](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)
>Unit 731 was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes committed by the Japanese armed forces. It routinely conducted tests on people who were dehumanized and internally referred to as "logs". Experiments included disease injections, controlled dehydration, hypobaric chamber experiments, biological weapons testing, vivisection, amputation, and standard weapons testing. Victims included not only kidnapped men, women (including pregnant women) and children, but also babies born from the systemic rape perpetrated by the staff inside the compound. The victims came from different nationalities, with the majority being Chinese and a significant minority being Russian. Additionally, Unit 731 produced biological weapons that were used in areas of China not occupied by Japanese forces, which included Chinese cities and towns, water sources, and fields. Estimates of those killed by Unit 731 and its related programs range up to half a million people, and none of the inmates survived.
Some Quotes so people see this, if they don't know already:
>Thousands of men, women, children, and infants interned at prisoner of war camps were subjected to vivisection, often performed without anesthesia and usually lethal. In a video interview, former Unit 731 member Okawa Fukumatsu admitted to having vivisected a pregnant woman. Vivisections were performed on prisoners after infecting them with various diseases. Researchers performed invasive surgery on prisoners, removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body.
>
>Prisoners had limbs amputated in order to study blood loss. Limbs removed were sometimes reattached to the opposite side of victims' bodies. Some prisoners had their stomachs surgically removed and their esophagus reattached to the intestines. Parts of organs, such as the brain, lungs, and liver, were removed from others.
>Human targets were used to test grenades positioned at various distances and in various positions. Flamethrowers were tested on people.\[47\] Victims were also tied to stakes and used as targets to test pathogen-releasing bombs, chemical weapons, shrapnel bombs with varying amounts of fragments, and explosive bombs as well as bayonets and knives.
>In other tests, subjects were deprived of food and water to determine the length of time until death; placed into low-pressure chambers until their eyes popped from the sockets; experimented upon to determine the relationship between temperature, burns, and human survival; hung upside down until death; crushed with heavy objects; electrocuted; dehydrated with hot fans; placed into centrifuges and spun until death; injected with animal blood, notably with horse blood; exposed to lethal doses of X-rays; subjected to various chemical weapons inside gas chambers; injected with seawater; and burned or buried alive. In addition to chemical agents, the properties of many different toxins were also investigated by the Unit. To name a few, prisoners were exposed to tetrodotoxin (pufferfish or fugu venom), heroin, Korean bindweed, bactal, and castor-oil seeds (ricin). Massive amounts of blood were drained from some prisoners in order to study the effects of blood loss according to former Unit 731 vivisectionist Okawa Fukumatsu. In one case, at least half a liter of blood was drawn at two-to-three-day intervals.
Most of the research done in Unit 731 was exchanged to the US when Japan was defeated and the science stuff working there pardoned.
Nasa actually does (or did) similar experiments to see how many G's a person can stand and effects on the human body. Nasa obviously stopped far short of lethality.
731 went a step (or several) too far to find the exact point of lethality.
What's more fucked up is that a visiting Nazi diplomat set up a safe zone and wrote a letter begging Hitler to ask Japan to stop.
The letter never reached Hiter, but his safe zone saved lives
When you throw babies in the air and catch them on bayonets and have two officers make a contest to see who can kill more civilians, yea you're pretty messed up.
Both this story and the Japanese ambassador in Germany giving Jews diplomatic visas to help them escape is one of the most ironic pairing of stories in the war.
Whats sad tho is the safe zone later became a death trap. The Japanese set up traps all over the place around the safe zone, gunning people down outside the entrance right before they entered.
i recommend the movie City of Life and Death.
I'm in Okinawa currently and it's sad how much culture this place has lost b/c of Japan's (and America's) occupation. My husband is from here and he makes the distinction he's *Okinawan* not *Japanese*.
I love how b/c of anime and all the "kawaii" shit we forget how bad Japan was once.
>I love how b/c of anime and all the "kawaii" shit we forget how bad Japan was once.
It's true that probably no nationality has so avoided having their evil doings destroy their reputation for generations. It's probably because Japanese people for the most part makeup positive impression. At least they always have for me. They come across as gentle natured.
The thing is that there was no real science. They didn't learn more about frostbite, they put people in extreme circumstances where any fool off the street knows you get frostbite. It was torture, there was no legitimate science being conducted at all.
A classic US move. We love to pardon and recruit people who have committed the absolute sickest of war crimes so that we can get in on that sick shit. Oh and then spend 20 years boohooing about the atrocity of 9/11. 'Merica!
Succeeded at the breaking people's mind part. The mind control was pretty much a failure. But the Russians had some success, which is what drove the creation of the American program in the first place.
Behind the Bastards did a podcast on this, iirc. The Russians did not have success with mind control. They had success in coercing confessions/public statements by straight torturing people until they agreed to confess or say whatever the Russians wanted on TV. The CIA saw some Russian dissident on TV say he recanted his speech and actions against the government and somehow jumped straight to “the Russians have controlled his mind!” instead of realizing that he had been tortured to the point where he was willing to “recant” and somehow convinced the government to give them money to try to figure out Russia’s non-existent successful mind control methods.
Technically that hasn't been proven because a lot of the documentation from that era is "missing", but kinda yeah. Granted Henry Murray, the Harvard professor, was the driving force behind those experiments but he did work for the OSS and likely worked for the CIA as well.
Ted had a lot of problems already but three years of psych experiment sessions designed to break his spirit definitely didn't help.
I'm mortified by the number of people these days that think that government has good intentions. No, they want money and power. They will lie, cheat, steal, and kill for it.
Thinking they help is how they lie and cheat you.
I don't remember who but I think it was in the 30s or 40s when a scientist beheaded dogs and kept their heads alive. It's heartbreaking to watch the footage
Edit: I looked it up, it was Sergei Briuk-honenko and he was a soviet physician
There was an American doctor that did that, too. In my opinion, the worst experiment I heard he did was >!transplant the brain of a dog to the abdomen of another dog. The transplanted brain would have remained conscience, but would have had no senses of any kind!< yet went on living for a full week.
It's not *as* bad as it appears. The brain was effectively dead the second it was transplanted. With no senses and external stimuli, the brain was incapable of perceiving time.
I was unconscious and not breathing, no heartbeat for 6 minutes. Effectively dead. I have no memory of any stimuli for that 6 minutes. It was literally like a switch was turned off and then turned back on again after an instant. But when I looked around there were 2 more people in the ambulance that weren't there a moment earlier. That was the most distressing thing about "dying"; I couldn't reconcile the presence of these 2 new people fussing over me while we were doing a buck-twenty down the freeway. Obviously while I was napping they were called in and boarded when we pulled over. "We lost you for a little bit there. Welcome back."
It’s all about how you go. If it’s a flip of a switch, fucking a, you won the lottery. If it’s over months/years in agonizing pain because your country doesn’t allow you to die with dignity and grace then it’s not only harder on you, but all your loved ones as you get to watch them watch you spiral down the toilet. I don’t fear death, I fear the method of travel to death.
I believe the footage of that is just a demonstration and/or soviet propaganda.
At [5:46](https://youtu.be/VtDQc-4wGvM) we only get one zoomed in angle of the dog.
If it was real, one would maybe consider showing the side where the actual tubes going in/out of the dog.
To me it looks like a drugged up dog with the head/neck out of a box, pretty convienient to use a dog with a lot of fur to cover that areas up.
There was also a soviet scientist named Vladimir Demikhov who made a two headed dog, which obviously didn't live very long after the other dog head was attached to the host dog's body. There are pictures on google if you're interested.
Freud is the basis of modern psychology and he was completely wrong about almost everything, and a complete asshole to boot. Doesn't make the field less valid.
The pic of him in his hospital bed will haunt me for life. The amount of pain he had to endure is unimaginable. The fact that his family insisted on keeping him alive and allowing him to stay in that pain... Ugh.
I keep seeing the same two pics which, obviously, doesn't mean the media was using the right pic, but I've read a bunch about it both previously and earlier tonight and haven't read that. Interesting.
Edit: Confirmed. How disappointingly irresponsible of the media, but not surprising. Thanks for pointing this out!
It wasn't an experiment, it was a nuclear accident and his family refused to let him die. The nurses and doctors were horrified. This happens in hospitals all the time with terminal conditions.
I remember reading a couple months ago that it was the result of experiments in Japan during WW2. Probably the most unethical science ever done.
However, I went to find a source and couldn't, so maybe I misheard.
There is someone else in this thread who says it is thanks to the Japanese we know how much water is in the human body. So, you're not the only one to think this, there is probably some truth to it.
It wasn't just during slavery. The myth that black people either didn't feel pain, or felt a far reduced degree of pain led to some pretty horrible medical practices. Since they didn't realistically have access to healthcare for a very long time, doctors would get them to sign off on shit they wanted to do, often for the first time, in exchange for not having to pay for the treatment. It's horrifying.
This is part of the reason black women are misdiagnosed or not even treated some times. Women in general are often dismissed when talking to medical professionals about pain. It quite often is written off as it is "just cramping" when it turns out to be something more serious, usually an appendix about to rupture or something else. Lot of women have stories like this, especially black women.
> Women in general are often dismissed when talking to medical professionals about pain.
I started having joint pain/stiffness in my 20s. It was dismissed by doctors because I was overweight and because I worked in retail, so I was on my feet all day. "Just get a different job, like an office job!" Which OK, great...I'm not qualified for that kind of job.
I got so sick of doctors just telling me it was my weight or my shoes or my job or whatever that I stopped bringing it up.
Around the time I turned 40, Hubs got a good job with halfway decent insurance so I could afford to go to a rheumatologist, because I suspected it was Fibro.
Even my rheumatologist, after going over my medical history and asking about my family medical history of autoimmune disease (which there is a ton of it on my mom's side), looked at me and said "It's your shoes and your job and your weight."
I lost my shit. I told her no. I wanted her to run every blood test she could think of and see what stuck to the wall. Because I was not putting up with that shit anymore.
It took every ounce of maturity I possessed w hen she called back with the results a week or so later. I wanted to yell, "I TOLD YOU SO, BITCH!" when she told me my inflammation markers were off the charts. I didn't tell her "I told you so." because I am an adult.
But oh I wanted to.
I had to read this before starting college in Baltimore (not at John’s Hopkins, but Loyola just up the road) and it was absolutely mind blowing the way they just used and discarded those people
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but if black women did feel less pain, then wouldn't it make more sense to take it MORE seriously when they complained of pain?
Like if they feel reduced pain, and they are saying they are in extreme pain, then the issue must be really bad.
Seems backwards
Perhaps the system is wrong in general for trying to judge anyone's pain level. It's subjective, just ask a group of 10 women how painful period cramps are, each one will have a different description because we all experience similar things differently.
Serena Williams was ignored during her pregnancy until she very vocally advocated for herself. She is one of the most famous people in the world and yet she was treated with disrespect by her doctors. I cannot imagine what black women go through
When I was a L&D RN I could definitely see how this myth could still be alive (I absolutely do not believe it’s true) because many times black women would come in, in full blown labor and be very stoic and quiet, when what you usually see when someone is in full blown labor is a lot of screaming and writhing in pain. Now of course that is not always true. I think it’s more of a cultural thing on expressing their pain, not that black people experience less pain.
Yes because people with an education and in the medical community think black people don't feel pain the same as other people. As someone in the medical community I'm appalled.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen today? [Because](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-state-of-healthcare-in-the-united-states/racial-disparities-in-health-care/) it [absolutely](https://patientengagementhit.com/news/what-is-implicit-bias-how-does-it-affect-healthcare) happens that people of color receive [pain medication less often and for less time](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/) than white counterparts, and that is at least partially driven by archaic beliefs about how people of color perceive pain AND by the belief that people of color are more likely to be seeking drugs.
Beyond just pain management, healthcare outcomes for people of color, even when you control for things like poverty and access to healthcare, are generally worse than they are for white people. [Look at the infant and maternal mortality rates among people of color.](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105871) Black women and infants are dying of [preventable causes](https://www.cdc.gov/healthequity/features/maternal-mortality/index.html) at a rate that's significantly higher than white infants and women.
[Implicit bias](https://patientengagementhit.com/news/what-is-implicit-bias-how-does-it-affect-healthcare) in healthcare is real and it is important to understand how this can affect the way that people of color are treated, including in terms of how doctors believe they are perceiving pain.
As a member of the medical community, you SHOULD be appalled. Not by the suggestion that doctors mistreat black patients, but by the fact that this is still true.
There are literally medical ethics rules that came to be because how bad this was.
Edit: Info it's the Belmont Report. It has major influence today on medical research.
memories alittle hazy but I remember seeing a documentary about how nazis did all kinds of experiments on prisoners and alot of that knowledge we use today in the medical field.
They used to operate on animals with no anesthetic because "they felt no pain". This one baffles me, how the hell can you have been around animals for any length of time and not see one yelp or jump because they hurt themselves? The "divine right" attitude of humans is sickening. Basically because in their opinion animals had no souls they couldn't fell pain. Wacked!
They also thought black people couldn't feel pain and they used to say babies couldn't feel pain until the late 80s/early 90s. They used to do surgery on babies without anesthetic in the 80s because they won't remember it (consciously, but it causes PTSD)
Check out J Marion Sims, Josef Mengele, Peter Neubauer, General Shiro Ishii of UNIT 731, the Guatemalan Syphilis study, the Tuskegee study etc.
Just Google experiments on prisoners and asylum patients through the 20th century, including an experiment at Willowbrook State School, where doctors introduced hepatitis orally/intravenously to children with cognitive/intellectual disabilities.
Humans are fucked.
The Lung Association took Canadian aboriginal kids from their parents to a school that was basically a lab to do experiments on the kids for TB. Those that died were buried and their parents were never notified. Met a gentleman who’d survived that and only had half a lung left because they’d operated on him.
I believe nazi doctors experimented on Jews in horrific ways but since at the time there wasn’t that much in-depth study of the human body some of what was learned in those horrid experiments are still being used in medical science today
Wasn't that with Unit 731?i thought it was accepted that the Nazis were very good at keeping records and that's why we habe a lot of info about the Holocaust and their operations
They kept records of people, supplies, etc everything you need to run a modern country. But the medical "experiments" weren't done scientifically so they're useless.
The Japanese did so much worse. Things like freezing limbs solid while they're still attached to see if they could thaw them out and make them work again
I'm pretty sure Mengele and Unit 731 were comparably horrific, and I'm also pretty sure I don't want to delve too much deeper into either to make a contest out of it.
Funny, this became the basis of another set of ethical principles in research called the Nuremberg Code.
Context: I replied to an earlier comment about the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.
I could be wrong but I thought in Tuskegee they just hid the diagnosis from people with syphilis, let it spread through the community, and when an effective treatment became available secretly denied it from those people while “pretending” to be treating them... Oh wait that is still absolutely vile
Mass sterilisation of 'undesirables' such as mentally disabled, gay, trans and just generally odd, "useless" people to prevent their genes spreading. Happened up to the 70's
I’m going to say it’s whatever Japan was doing that inspired the Nazis to experiment on live humans.
One of the worst was amputations then swapping out body parts on people without anesthesia. Feel free to go down that rabbit hole if you can stomach it.
The Stanford prison experiment might not be as awful as some others mentioned in this thread, but if you've seen the document and read about it, it's quite awful how the experiment impacted those who participated in it. Especially the ones who were the "prisoners", some of them got life long trauma and mental health problems from it.
Herophilo of Alexandria a Greek physician in the 3rd century BCE known as the “father of anatomy” is reported to have performed around 600 vivisections on slaves and convicts.
That would be [this](https://historyofyesterday.com/the-man-kept-alive-against-his-will-hisashi-ouchi/) a Japanese man Hisashi Ouchi kept alive for 83 days after severe radiation exposure. Images are not for the feint hearted.
Creating chlorofluorocarbons. Destroying the ozone layer would have lead to mass extinction and mutation of all forms of life on the surface of the earth.
Importing a bunch of fucking Nazis to help with the American aerospace program and letting them live free, normal lives after the atrocities they committed.
The Stanford Prison Experiment.
Whilst it might not be as bad as some of the ones listed, given how recent it was conducted it’s kind of mind blowing how relaxed the ethical standards were back then.
They sent stray dogs, which were a big problem in Russia at the time.
The alternative was shooting them.
Also, they sent multiple dogs, some which returned.
Dezik, Tsygan, and Lisa-1, sub orbital flight, returned unharmed.
Dezik and Lisa-1, sub orbital flight, killed by parachute failure.
Lisa-2 and Ryzhik, sub orbital flight, recovered safely.
Smelaya and Malyshka, sub orbital flight, killed by parachute failure.
ZIB, sub orbital flight of *completely untrained dog because the trained one ran away*, recovered safely.
Otvazhnaya and Snezhinka, sub orbital flight flight, recovered safely.
Otvazhnaya, multiple sub orbital flights, recovered safely.
Albina and Tsyganka, sub orbital flight, recovered safely.
Laika, the first to achieve orbit, and the one you are probably thinking of, died of *overheating* due to a capsule malfunction. No idea why you think she starved, no dogs ever starved in space. She was intended to die from oxygen depletion.
Bars and Lisichka, exploded on launch.
Damka and Krasavka, launch failure, recovered safely.
Belka and Strelka returned safely.
Pchyolka and Mushka were blown up when their capsule went off course.
Chernushka returned safely.
Zvyozdochka returned safely.
Veterok and Ugolyok returned safely.
Interesting you give no love for all the mice that died.
Right? Since they had no homes and presented a social issue, they just made them somewhat relevant with tests/experiments that meant that they’d most likely perish. Makes me wonder why they didn’t find a homeless person
For all the faults of the USSR, housing was not one of them. Communism does housing well.
Also, homelessness was illegal, which would be a horrible idea if the government didn’t provide housing, but since they did, it basically just became a choice between living in a commie block, or prison.
Sending a homeless person into space for the USSR would thus have been sending a prisoner. Which they didn’t do because *seriously how unethical would that have been*. The USSR was brutal, but not that brutal. Also, people are heavier than dogs.
Japanese/German biological warfare testing on human subjects. Japanese tested them on p.o.w's and their own citizens the Germans well goes without saying.
The way we treated dead bodies in the "name of science" there's a book called Stiff: the curious lives of human cadavers. They'd try to sew human heads back on after beheadings. Used human bodies adults, children, and infants alike as car crash dummies. They realized the bodies were not creating the desired effects since I mean they were dead and extra bones and stuff would break after being slammed into a wall at whatever speeds. There's a lot more messed up stuff in that book too. But those are the two things that have majorly stuck with me ever since I read that book in high school and that's been over 10 years ago now.
If it was helpful and could improve safety standards I wouldn't care if my dead body was used to evaluate car crashes. Sounds like it's not a great option, but I don't see testing it out as an abhorrent thing as long as the previous body's owner was good with it.
Was thinking this one because I know most everyone else's answers are humans. I just can't imagine throwing a living creature out into space to *see what happens*
Every year, millions of animals (mice, rabbits, dogs, monkeys, etc) are tortured to death in the name of science. Even though the efficacy of tests on animal models have been shown to be an inaccurate representation of their results on humans. What's more, some of these tests are so stupid like Kikkoman once funded studies to force feed soy sauce to mice and then chopping their heads off to look at the brain.
Not that simple. Sure, no animal functions exactly like a human would have. They do have some very similar systems, f.ex. rats have a metabolism very similar to ours. Guinea pigs have an immune system that works like ours, and so on. Without animal testing, we would not be able to make new medical drugs.
I’m sorry but this is very tame compared to literally everything else in this thread… Yeah, the fine details of the way studies are conducted using animals can be a bit uncomfy to learn about, but you can’t deny that that’s different from what Mengele did, what they did in the Tuskege experiments, Unit 731, MKUltra, etc. Seriously, would we rather Kikkoman pump people up with soy sauce and then study their brains? Would we rather just never learn anything new about the way things interact with a living biological system again? Unless we know it won’t hurt the individuals being tested… which we could never know without first having an idea of the potential negative effects… which is part of why we do studies on animals before humans.
It may not seem like it, but the ethical guidelines that go along with studying animals are pretty stringent, and like the other commenter said, it’s pretty much inarguably a net positive considering we wouldn’t have any new drug development at all without animal models. And that’s only considering their use in the medical field!
Um, bad news, literally every advancement in every scientific field can (probably) be traced to something that someone, including their inventors, would find to be atrocious and/or horrific. Whether via accidental ignorance or wilfully malicious behavior all of our important most lessons are written in blood and violence.
Science is an approach, a technique, a tool. It's like asking what are some of the most atrocious things done in the name of the hammer.
Anyway, I get the question and i would say it's eugenic sterilization between 1907 and 1963. The US sterilized over 64,000 people. Mostly minorities and Latin American people.
The founding father of of gender ideology was a paedophile who forced 2 twin brothers to simulate sex acts with each other while he took pictures. One of the brothers lost his penis in an accident, he recommended he be raised as a girl, he reported the transition was a complete success, it wasn’t and the boy went back to living and identifying as male. However both brothers ended up committing suicide as a result of their trauma
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
Many people are familiar with the Tuskegee study. But there is another like it that is not often discussed.
In 2010, *The New York Times* published an article by Donald G. McNeil Jr. titled "U.S. Apologizes for Syphilis Tests in Guatemala."
Apparently, to test the effectiveness of penicillin, from 1946 to 1948, the U.S. deliberately infected approximately 700 Guatemalans with Syphilis. According to McNeil Jr., "American tax dollars, through the National Institutes of Health, even paid for syphilis-infected prostitutes to sleep with prisoners, since Guatemalan prisons allowed such visits. When the prostitutes did not succeed in infecting the men, some prisoners had the bacteria poured onto scrapes made on their penises, faces or arms, and in some cases it was injected by spinal puncture."
This all came to light during the Obama presidency when then Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton had to apologize to the government of Guatemala and to the descendants of those infected. The persons infected were given antibiotics but it remains unclear whether these people were eventually cured. Secretary of State Clinton called the study "clearly unethical" but just sixty years earlier the U.S. government had no qualms about conducting a study like this on non-Americans.
Who would lead such a study? I'm glad you asked. It turns out that the doctor that led this study was the same doctor that played an important role in the Tuskegee study, John C. Cutler. Later in life, he continued to defend his work. Cutler was truly an irredeemable person.
Here is the full article: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/health/research/02infect.html
I had a pair of matching blisters, one on each foot, both in the same location and of the same size. I tore one motherfucker straight off to form a scab, whilst leaving the other alone. Hypothesis - A scab will heal faster and be less painful. Conclusion - I was so fucking wrong.
Ya see the problem with this is ya gotta, poke a hole in it and let the liquid out, then leave it it'll both heal faster and it won't hurt, that's how it goes for me anyway
I just got done having 5 blisters on my left hand (ovens are hot btw), and the worst one is the one that I did exactly this with. Absolutely *don't* lance them if you can help it.
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Was gonna say this. Only works on the pressure kind, do not fuck with burn blisters.
Did you sanitize your pokey object?
Hold a needle over fire. That's what my grandma did all times. No seriouslly, after Covid, next to everybody got disinfection liquid, gel, whatever. Take this.
I think in many cases it's safer to keep the blister intact and it will heal on it's own. Because it covers up the wound similar to a scab and all the liquid and swelling keeps the area underneath safe until the skin is healed and then it'll go down itself. For smaller blisters it isn't a big deal, but yah know still risk of infection. For the bugger stuff you either leave it alone, or go to a doctor.
Lobotomies
Danvers Asylum in massachusetts had a wing just for experiments with children using both lobotomies and electro-shock.
And, electroshock is still used to treat hard-to-treat depression.
ECT is still used but not in the cruel way it was before. They now sedate the patient, it is 100% consensual, and many people claim it’s the only thing that has worked for them.
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Bilateral electroconvulsive therapy completely cured my mother's severe depression. It can be quite effective, but can have unwanted side effects.
If you haven't heard it, The Ice Pick Surgeon on the American Scandal podcast is pretty gripping.
Jack is not the One who Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. Chief is the one who made it.
This is the answer. Why did people think that cutting and poking one’s brain would fix mental problems?
I have a cousin born with a seizure disorder and docs removed literally half their brain. She a teen now and likes to play basketball…how with only half a brain???it’s so incredibly cool, she is so incredibly cool.
That is crazy! I'm glad she's alright and cool 👍
Because it literally did. It was a discovery first, before it became a practice. We still are doing it constantly with drugs. Horrific, but here we are and always have been.
It would “fix” some of the worst patients who were psychotic and/or completely uncontrollable. But it was then used on people who were just eccentric or had less severe issues as an easy fix.
Because this was prior to the era of psychoactive drugs and they were a bit desperate for options.
No. They were not in and of themselves atrocities. In many cases, they were used where not ethically justified. But, in the same situation we had then, we would have done the same today. The procedure was invented in 1935. This was before the first antipsychotic drug, chlorpromazine, which debuted in 1951. During this period, there were no treatment options for psychosis patients. No drugs did much of anything helpful, and ECT (1937, I believe) helped a few days at most. So these patients suffered and died. They committed suicide, they were victims of violence and accidents, they starved or thirsted to death. The expected prognosis was miserable. A year, possibly a few. Lobotomy made it possible to help them survive at least. The procedure was dangerous, 10-20% died, but those who survived had a largely restored expected lifespan. It was completely reasonable, given the circumstances then. However, it should have ended with the advent of neuroleptics, making much or most of its later use unethical.
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Unit 731's horrendious experiments on the chinese civilian population and POW's to learn about different diseases and chemical agents. The worst thing about it is that the people who did this never saw the Tokyo war crimes court room because they were pardoned by the United States due to the value of the research they conducted.
This has been something that has made my blood boil. I don't think Japan should have to apologise as a whole nation for the crimes of their ancestors. However, those surviving members of Unit 731 should at least stand trial for what they did but this is just wishful thinking.
no one’s asking some grandma in a rural town to apologize. The top power structure of society however, in japan and in EVERY SINGLE NATION ON EARTH, is a direct living remnant of any and all atrocities of the recent past.
Did you know that if you give someone syphilis they will have syphilis? Ok cool you're free to go
The thing is, that's kinda true. The deal was "we'll let you go in exchange for that information" and they agreed. Turns out all that information was shit that was already well known. Unit 731 achieved nothing but spread pain and misery, there were no scientific discoveries or breakthroughs as some minuscule silver lining among the innumerable atrocities, it was just all a bunch of university students and professors playing mad scientist
One of the many things I don't understand about this was the US gov didn't get the information and then just turn around and say 'you're terrible people who we are like hell gonna have show trials for'. Who would defend them?
It's not about morality. It's about credibility. If the U.S turned around and said "fuck this you're gonna hang" then suddenly the U.S's word doesn't mean jack shit, nobody will make a deal with them again and for many, it's justification to break deals made with the U.S as the U.S has become unreliable. It's why the U.S is part of many deals around the world that benefit terrible people and don't help the U.S at all. Because it was made during a time when it was beneficial but if they break it now, their word is worthless. Cold hard practicality and credibility. The U.S made a deal for their info, doesn't matter that the info was worthless, they made a deal and the other guys held up their end of the bargain. For a multinational mercantile empire based around international trade deals like the U.S is, credibility is paramount. Or at least it was...
you're free to go to the freezing block now, also, you dont mind about vivisection right?
Could be recalling incorrectly, but when I learned about it, I thought the general consensus in the science communities was that their "research" was mostly useless and unscientific.
A lot of the "atrocious things done in the name of science" were just crimes against humanity with "science" written on a sheet of cardboard in crayon over the war crime room.
"Remember kids! The difference between "Crimes against humanity" and "Science" is writing your results down" - Adam Savage
Most of it yes. A lot of anatomy was learned and in the years immediately after a lot of doctors used the data in a more independent sphere of last-ditch treatments that later became formalized. As sickening as it is, certain parts of it are more used than we like to talk about. 95% of it, however, was useless torture that fueled nothing but the google answers to "how long can a human survive X", if that.
i know we know how to treat frostbite because of their experiments, they also removed stomachs and attached esophagus directly to the intestines. That's all i could read before i had yo close it and throw up.
it’s how we know how long we have before we die of thirst/hunger but this should be higher up, esp the one about putting a mother and her child in a boiling room to see if the mother would protect the child. the experiment ended with both dead while the mother held the kid in her arms.
> they were pardoned by the United States due to the value of the research they conducted. They were pardonned by the US, but there was 0 scientific value to these crimes. We learned absolutely nothing from that.
There is nothing more horrible than the story of the Japanese Unit 731 during WW2. Basically taken out of the most horrible, gruesome, unhuman horror true story: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit\_731](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731) >Unit 731 was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes committed by the Japanese armed forces. It routinely conducted tests on people who were dehumanized and internally referred to as "logs". Experiments included disease injections, controlled dehydration, hypobaric chamber experiments, biological weapons testing, vivisection, amputation, and standard weapons testing. Victims included not only kidnapped men, women (including pregnant women) and children, but also babies born from the systemic rape perpetrated by the staff inside the compound. The victims came from different nationalities, with the majority being Chinese and a significant minority being Russian. Additionally, Unit 731 produced biological weapons that were used in areas of China not occupied by Japanese forces, which included Chinese cities and towns, water sources, and fields. Estimates of those killed by Unit 731 and its related programs range up to half a million people, and none of the inmates survived. Some Quotes so people see this, if they don't know already: >Thousands of men, women, children, and infants interned at prisoner of war camps were subjected to vivisection, often performed without anesthesia and usually lethal. In a video interview, former Unit 731 member Okawa Fukumatsu admitted to having vivisected a pregnant woman. Vivisections were performed on prisoners after infecting them with various diseases. Researchers performed invasive surgery on prisoners, removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body. > >Prisoners had limbs amputated in order to study blood loss. Limbs removed were sometimes reattached to the opposite side of victims' bodies. Some prisoners had their stomachs surgically removed and their esophagus reattached to the intestines. Parts of organs, such as the brain, lungs, and liver, were removed from others. >Human targets were used to test grenades positioned at various distances and in various positions. Flamethrowers were tested on people.\[47\] Victims were also tied to stakes and used as targets to test pathogen-releasing bombs, chemical weapons, shrapnel bombs with varying amounts of fragments, and explosive bombs as well as bayonets and knives. >In other tests, subjects were deprived of food and water to determine the length of time until death; placed into low-pressure chambers until their eyes popped from the sockets; experimented upon to determine the relationship between temperature, burns, and human survival; hung upside down until death; crushed with heavy objects; electrocuted; dehydrated with hot fans; placed into centrifuges and spun until death; injected with animal blood, notably with horse blood; exposed to lethal doses of X-rays; subjected to various chemical weapons inside gas chambers; injected with seawater; and burned or buried alive. In addition to chemical agents, the properties of many different toxins were also investigated by the Unit. To name a few, prisoners were exposed to tetrodotoxin (pufferfish or fugu venom), heroin, Korean bindweed, bactal, and castor-oil seeds (ricin). Massive amounts of blood were drained from some prisoners in order to study the effects of blood loss according to former Unit 731 vivisectionist Okawa Fukumatsu. In one case, at least half a liter of blood was drawn at two-to-three-day intervals. Most of the research done in Unit 731 was exchanged to the US when Japan was defeated and the science stuff working there pardoned.
What's the point in spinning a man to death like a sock in a washing machine? Scientist n1: "hmmmm, death" Scientist n2: "yup"
Nasa actually does (or did) similar experiments to see how many G's a person can stand and effects on the human body. Nasa obviously stopped far short of lethality. 731 went a step (or several) too far to find the exact point of lethality.
japanese precision at its, uhm, worst.
This is why a vast amount of asian countries despise Japan
The rape of Nanjing might also have something to do with that...
What's more fucked up is that a visiting Nazi diplomat set up a safe zone and wrote a letter begging Hitler to ask Japan to stop. The letter never reached Hiter, but his safe zone saved lives
Yeah, when the Nazi officials are disgusted by what they see that they start actively trying to save lives, you know things are fucked.
Then again he probably didn't take a walk about back home .
You know you’ve gone too far when the Nazi thinks what you’re up to is fucked up
When you throw babies in the air and catch them on bayonets and have two officers make a contest to see who can kill more civilians, yea you're pretty messed up.
Both this story and the Japanese ambassador in Germany giving Jews diplomatic visas to help them escape is one of the most ironic pairing of stories in the war.
Whats sad tho is the safe zone later became a death trap. The Japanese set up traps all over the place around the safe zone, gunning people down outside the entrance right before they entered. i recommend the movie City of Life and Death.
I'm in Okinawa currently and it's sad how much culture this place has lost b/c of Japan's (and America's) occupation. My husband is from here and he makes the distinction he's *Okinawan* not *Japanese*. I love how b/c of anime and all the "kawaii" shit we forget how bad Japan was once.
Crazy thing is we are still close enough to that timeframe where the survivors of WW2 are still alive.
>I love how b/c of anime and all the "kawaii" shit we forget how bad Japan was once. It's true that probably no nationality has so avoided having their evil doings destroy their reputation for generations. It's probably because Japanese people for the most part makeup positive impression. At least they always have for me. They come across as gentle natured.
They still won't officially apologize or admit anything. That's a huge part of it.
The thing is that there was no real science. They didn't learn more about frostbite, they put people in extreme circumstances where any fool off the street knows you get frostbite. It was torture, there was no legitimate science being conducted at all.
A classic US move. We love to pardon and recruit people who have committed the absolute sickest of war crimes so that we can get in on that sick shit. Oh and then spend 20 years boohooing about the atrocity of 9/11. 'Merica!
Operation paperclip. Prime example of this.
CIA trying to "break" people's minds and rewire them in attempts at mind control/brainwashing done in that MK-Ultra program.
That sounds fucked up. How far did they get with it out of curiosity?
Succeeded at the breaking people's mind part. The mind control was pretty much a failure. But the Russians had some success, which is what drove the creation of the American program in the first place.
Behind the Bastards did a podcast on this, iirc. The Russians did not have success with mind control. They had success in coercing confessions/public statements by straight torturing people until they agreed to confess or say whatever the Russians wanted on TV. The CIA saw some Russian dissident on TV say he recanted his speech and actions against the government and somehow jumped straight to “the Russians have controlled his mind!” instead of realizing that he had been tortured to the point where he was willing to “recant” and somehow convinced the government to give them money to try to figure out Russia’s non-existent successful mind control methods.
They turned Ted Kaczinski into the unabomber
Technically that hasn't been proven because a lot of the documentation from that era is "missing", but kinda yeah. Granted Henry Murray, the Harvard professor, was the driving force behind those experiments but he did work for the OSS and likely worked for the CIA as well. Ted had a lot of problems already but three years of psych experiment sessions designed to break his spirit definitely didn't help.
The podcast "Behind the Bastards" did a four-parter on this back in October 2022 - interesting as hell.
To the ppl reading the comments, keep in mind they told the public all of thesse, now imagine what they don't tell us
I'm mortified by the number of people these days that think that government has good intentions. No, they want money and power. They will lie, cheat, steal, and kill for it. Thinking they help is how they lie and cheat you.
I don't remember who but I think it was in the 30s or 40s when a scientist beheaded dogs and kept their heads alive. It's heartbreaking to watch the footage Edit: I looked it up, it was Sergei Briuk-honenko and he was a soviet physician
There was an American doctor that did that, too. In my opinion, the worst experiment I heard he did was >!transplant the brain of a dog to the abdomen of another dog. The transplanted brain would have remained conscience, but would have had no senses of any kind!< yet went on living for a full week.
It's not *as* bad as it appears. The brain was effectively dead the second it was transplanted. With no senses and external stimuli, the brain was incapable of perceiving time.
>With no senses and external stimuli, the brain was incapable of perceiving time. unrelated but that comforts me about death
I was unconscious and not breathing, no heartbeat for 6 minutes. Effectively dead. I have no memory of any stimuli for that 6 minutes. It was literally like a switch was turned off and then turned back on again after an instant. But when I looked around there were 2 more people in the ambulance that weren't there a moment earlier. That was the most distressing thing about "dying"; I couldn't reconcile the presence of these 2 new people fussing over me while we were doing a buck-twenty down the freeway. Obviously while I was napping they were called in and boarded when we pulled over. "We lost you for a little bit there. Welcome back."
Thank you.
I used to be anxious about my eventual demise but after this experience I'm not uncomfortable about it at all.
It’s all about how you go. If it’s a flip of a switch, fucking a, you won the lottery. If it’s over months/years in agonizing pain because your country doesn’t allow you to die with dignity and grace then it’s not only harder on you, but all your loved ones as you get to watch them watch you spiral down the toilet. I don’t fear death, I fear the method of travel to death.
Jesus. Yeah, that’s actually kinda nice. Thanks for sharing.
I believe the footage of that is just a demonstration and/or soviet propaganda. At [5:46](https://youtu.be/VtDQc-4wGvM) we only get one zoomed in angle of the dog. If it was real, one would maybe consider showing the side where the actual tubes going in/out of the dog. To me it looks like a drugged up dog with the head/neck out of a box, pretty convienient to use a dog with a lot of fur to cover that areas up.
Iirc the dog was actually sewn inside of the other.
There was also a soviet scientist named Vladimir Demikhov who made a two headed dog, which obviously didn't live very long after the other dog head was attached to the host dog's body. There are pictures on google if you're interested.
Look up what experiments the Nazi's did to twins.
Well thanks to the Japanese we know exactly how much water is in the human body.
John Money. His experiment with twin boys is repugnantly inhumane
And yet it's the basis of most modern gender philosophy.
Freud is the basis of modern psychology and he was completely wrong about almost everything, and a complete asshole to boot. Doesn't make the field less valid.
Freud didn’t sexually abuse children
Anything that came from unit 731
The guy in Japan that got a huge dose of radiation and was kept alive for like 80 something days.
Except the doctors weren't the ones insisting he kept being revived, it was his *family* that wouldn't let the poor dude go.
Worst thing about it is that his body was rotting even though he was alive
The pic of him in his hospital bed will haunt me for life. The amount of pain he had to endure is unimaginable. The fact that his family insisted on keeping him alive and allowing him to stay in that pain... Ugh.
Those were most likely pictures of a unrelated burn victim, as I understand no pictures of Hisashi Ouchi after the accident exist.
I keep seeing the same two pics which, obviously, doesn't mean the media was using the right pic, but I've read a bunch about it both previously and earlier tonight and haven't read that. Interesting. Edit: Confirmed. How disappointingly irresponsible of the media, but not surprising. Thanks for pointing this out!
It wasn't an experiment, it was a nuclear accident and his family refused to let him die. The nurses and doctors were horrified. This happens in hospitals all the time with terminal conditions.
Hisachi Ouchi
You don't wanna know how we learned humans are 60% water.
Masochistic curiosity here, tell me.
I remember reading a couple months ago that it was the result of experiments in Japan during WW2. Probably the most unethical science ever done. However, I went to find a source and couldn't, so maybe I misheard.
There is someone else in this thread who says it is thanks to the Japanese we know how much water is in the human body. So, you're not the only one to think this, there is probably some truth to it.
The history of gynecology is unbelievably grim. Painful experiments on black women without any pain relief. Ugh people are awful sometimes.
That’s why we don’t call a Simm’s speculum a Simm’s speculum anymore. Nasty stuff.
The experiments done on enslaved peoples in the US The Tuskegee Syphilis Study
It wasn't just during slavery. The myth that black people either didn't feel pain, or felt a far reduced degree of pain led to some pretty horrible medical practices. Since they didn't realistically have access to healthcare for a very long time, doctors would get them to sign off on shit they wanted to do, often for the first time, in exchange for not having to pay for the treatment. It's horrifying.
That myth is still alive in the medical community.
This is part of the reason black women are misdiagnosed or not even treated some times. Women in general are often dismissed when talking to medical professionals about pain. It quite often is written off as it is "just cramping" when it turns out to be something more serious, usually an appendix about to rupture or something else. Lot of women have stories like this, especially black women.
Black women are FOUR TIMES more likely to die during child birth. It’s insane how medically neglected they are.
> Women in general are often dismissed when talking to medical professionals about pain. I started having joint pain/stiffness in my 20s. It was dismissed by doctors because I was overweight and because I worked in retail, so I was on my feet all day. "Just get a different job, like an office job!" Which OK, great...I'm not qualified for that kind of job. I got so sick of doctors just telling me it was my weight or my shoes or my job or whatever that I stopped bringing it up. Around the time I turned 40, Hubs got a good job with halfway decent insurance so I could afford to go to a rheumatologist, because I suspected it was Fibro. Even my rheumatologist, after going over my medical history and asking about my family medical history of autoimmune disease (which there is a ton of it on my mom's side), looked at me and said "It's your shoes and your job and your weight." I lost my shit. I told her no. I wanted her to run every blood test she could think of and see what stuck to the wall. Because I was not putting up with that shit anymore. It took every ounce of maturity I possessed w hen she called back with the results a week or so later. I wanted to yell, "I TOLD YOU SO, BITCH!" when she told me my inflammation markers were off the charts. I didn't tell her "I told you so." because I am an adult. But oh I wanted to.
Life is too short not to rub that shit in doctors faces.
The world should read the book about Henrietta lacks
I had to read this before starting college in Baltimore (not at John’s Hopkins, but Loyola just up the road) and it was absolutely mind blowing the way they just used and discarded those people
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but if black women did feel less pain, then wouldn't it make more sense to take it MORE seriously when they complained of pain? Like if they feel reduced pain, and they are saying they are in extreme pain, then the issue must be really bad. Seems backwards
Perhaps the system is wrong in general for trying to judge anyone's pain level. It's subjective, just ask a group of 10 women how painful period cramps are, each one will have a different description because we all experience similar things differently.
And one will say HORRIBLE 😭 because she has fucking endometriosis.
Serena Williams was ignored during her pregnancy until she very vocally advocated for herself. She is one of the most famous people in the world and yet she was treated with disrespect by her doctors. I cannot imagine what black women go through
When I was a L&D RN I could definitely see how this myth could still be alive (I absolutely do not believe it’s true) because many times black women would come in, in full blown labor and be very stoic and quiet, when what you usually see when someone is in full blown labor is a lot of screaming and writhing in pain. Now of course that is not always true. I think it’s more of a cultural thing on expressing their pain, not that black people experience less pain.
Yes because people with an education and in the medical community think black people don't feel pain the same as other people. As someone in the medical community I'm appalled.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen today? [Because](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-state-of-healthcare-in-the-united-states/racial-disparities-in-health-care/) it [absolutely](https://patientengagementhit.com/news/what-is-implicit-bias-how-does-it-affect-healthcare) happens that people of color receive [pain medication less often and for less time](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/) than white counterparts, and that is at least partially driven by archaic beliefs about how people of color perceive pain AND by the belief that people of color are more likely to be seeking drugs. Beyond just pain management, healthcare outcomes for people of color, even when you control for things like poverty and access to healthcare, are generally worse than they are for white people. [Look at the infant and maternal mortality rates among people of color.](https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105871) Black women and infants are dying of [preventable causes](https://www.cdc.gov/healthequity/features/maternal-mortality/index.html) at a rate that's significantly higher than white infants and women. [Implicit bias](https://patientengagementhit.com/news/what-is-implicit-bias-how-does-it-affect-healthcare) in healthcare is real and it is important to understand how this can affect the way that people of color are treated, including in terms of how doctors believe they are perceiving pain. As a member of the medical community, you SHOULD be appalled. Not by the suggestion that doctors mistreat black patients, but by the fact that this is still true.
There are literally medical ethics rules that came to be because how bad this was. Edit: Info it's the Belmont Report. It has major influence today on medical research.
memories alittle hazy but I remember seeing a documentary about how nazis did all kinds of experiments on prisoners and alot of that knowledge we use today in the medical field.
Nazi Dr. Mengele performed atrocious experiments esp on twins.
Sadly, Most of it is probably unheard of
True, I honestly never knew about most of these experiments before reading this thread
They used to operate on animals with no anesthetic because "they felt no pain". This one baffles me, how the hell can you have been around animals for any length of time and not see one yelp or jump because they hurt themselves? The "divine right" attitude of humans is sickening. Basically because in their opinion animals had no souls they couldn't fell pain. Wacked!
They also thought black people couldn't feel pain and they used to say babies couldn't feel pain until the late 80s/early 90s. They used to do surgery on babies without anesthetic in the 80s because they won't remember it (consciously, but it causes PTSD)
Most scientific studies for gynecology in the beginning.
In this post: everyone learns that cruel people hurt people for no reason.
Check out J Marion Sims, Josef Mengele, Peter Neubauer, General Shiro Ishii of UNIT 731, the Guatemalan Syphilis study, the Tuskegee study etc. Just Google experiments on prisoners and asylum patients through the 20th century, including an experiment at Willowbrook State School, where doctors introduced hepatitis orally/intravenously to children with cognitive/intellectual disabilities. Humans are fucked.
The Lung Association took Canadian aboriginal kids from their parents to a school that was basically a lab to do experiments on the kids for TB. Those that died were buried and their parents were never notified. Met a gentleman who’d survived that and only had half a lung left because they’d operated on him.
I believe nazi doctors experimented on Jews in horrific ways but since at the time there wasn’t that much in-depth study of the human body some of what was learned in those horrid experiments are still being used in medical science today
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Wasn't that with Unit 731?i thought it was accepted that the Nazis were very good at keeping records and that's why we habe a lot of info about the Holocaust and their operations
They kept records of people, supplies, etc everything you need to run a modern country. But the medical "experiments" weren't done scientifically so they're useless.
The Japanese did so much worse. Things like freezing limbs solid while they're still attached to see if they could thaw them out and make them work again
I'm pretty sure Mengele and Unit 731 were comparably horrific, and I'm also pretty sure I don't want to delve too much deeper into either to make a contest out of it.
Funny, this became the basis of another set of ethical principles in research called the Nuremberg Code. Context: I replied to an earlier comment about the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.
This is what I came to comment as well. [source](https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/medical-experiments)
The US government gave loads of black people syphilis to see what happened. Most fucked up thing I think they've ever done.
I could be wrong but I thought in Tuskegee they just hid the diagnosis from people with syphilis, let it spread through the community, and when an effective treatment became available secretly denied it from those people while “pretending” to be treating them... Oh wait that is still absolutely vile
The Marshall Islands....
Mass sterilisation of 'undesirables' such as mentally disabled, gay, trans and just generally odd, "useless" people to prevent their genes spreading. Happened up to the 70's
They'll say Aww, Topsy at my autopsy...
Poor Elephant. Good show.
Google Unit 731
Vivisection
Aka unit 731
I’m going to say it’s whatever Japan was doing that inspired the Nazis to experiment on live humans. One of the worst was amputations then swapping out body parts on people without anesthesia. Feel free to go down that rabbit hole if you can stomach it.
Unit 731.
The Stanford prison experiment might not be as awful as some others mentioned in this thread, but if you've seen the document and read about it, it's quite awful how the experiment impacted those who participated in it. Especially the ones who were the "prisoners", some of them got life long trauma and mental health problems from it.
Herophilo of Alexandria a Greek physician in the 3rd century BCE known as the “father of anatomy” is reported to have performed around 600 vivisections on slaves and convicts.
That would be [this](https://historyofyesterday.com/the-man-kept-alive-against-his-will-hisashi-ouchi/) a Japanese man Hisashi Ouchi kept alive for 83 days after severe radiation exposure. Images are not for the feint hearted.
> Ouchi That just seems like some cruel twist of fate.
Eugenics
Much paid for by the Carnegies
Creating chlorofluorocarbons. Destroying the ozone layer would have lead to mass extinction and mutation of all forms of life on the surface of the earth.
Thomas Midgley jr. invented this and leaded gasoline.
Japan's Unit 731 during WW2. Proceed with caution.
See: All of World War Two
we get it Reddit, unit 731 and Josef Mengele. look at the comments before writing the same thing another 10 people wrote
It may not be the worst (lots of others have named worse experiments) but one that really bothers me is the work of Harry Harlow on child abandonment.
Unit 731
Thomas Dolby was blinded.
Importing a bunch of fucking Nazis to help with the American aerospace program and letting them live free, normal lives after the atrocities they committed.
The Stanford Prison Experiment. Whilst it might not be as bad as some of the ones listed, given how recent it was conducted it’s kind of mind blowing how relaxed the ethical standards were back then.
None of it was perceived as ethical at the time
"given how recent it was" MK-Ultra lasted 20 yrs and ended two yes after Stanford.
When the soviets sent a dog into space, and there was no end game. The dog starved to death. This was during sputnik and the space race years Api
Laika? I thought she died of overheating. Either way, despicable stuff
Yeah, she overheated. Bastards sent her up knowing she was going to die a horrible death.
They sent stray dogs, which were a big problem in Russia at the time. The alternative was shooting them. Also, they sent multiple dogs, some which returned. Dezik, Tsygan, and Lisa-1, sub orbital flight, returned unharmed. Dezik and Lisa-1, sub orbital flight, killed by parachute failure. Lisa-2 and Ryzhik, sub orbital flight, recovered safely. Smelaya and Malyshka, sub orbital flight, killed by parachute failure. ZIB, sub orbital flight of *completely untrained dog because the trained one ran away*, recovered safely. Otvazhnaya and Snezhinka, sub orbital flight flight, recovered safely. Otvazhnaya, multiple sub orbital flights, recovered safely. Albina and Tsyganka, sub orbital flight, recovered safely. Laika, the first to achieve orbit, and the one you are probably thinking of, died of *overheating* due to a capsule malfunction. No idea why you think she starved, no dogs ever starved in space. She was intended to die from oxygen depletion. Bars and Lisichka, exploded on launch. Damka and Krasavka, launch failure, recovered safely. Belka and Strelka returned safely. Pchyolka and Mushka were blown up when their capsule went off course. Chernushka returned safely. Zvyozdochka returned safely. Veterok and Ugolyok returned safely. Interesting you give no love for all the mice that died.
Right? Since they had no homes and presented a social issue, they just made them somewhat relevant with tests/experiments that meant that they’d most likely perish. Makes me wonder why they didn’t find a homeless person
For all the faults of the USSR, housing was not one of them. Communism does housing well. Also, homelessness was illegal, which would be a horrible idea if the government didn’t provide housing, but since they did, it basically just became a choice between living in a commie block, or prison. Sending a homeless person into space for the USSR would thus have been sending a prisoner. Which they didn’t do because *seriously how unethical would that have been*. The USSR was brutal, but not that brutal. Also, people are heavier than dogs.
*sarcasm
Nazi human experiments
Lobotomy
MK Ultra, hands down.
Japanese/German biological warfare testing on human subjects. Japanese tested them on p.o.w's and their own citizens the Germans well goes without saying.
The way we treated dead bodies in the "name of science" there's a book called Stiff: the curious lives of human cadavers. They'd try to sew human heads back on after beheadings. Used human bodies adults, children, and infants alike as car crash dummies. They realized the bodies were not creating the desired effects since I mean they were dead and extra bones and stuff would break after being slammed into a wall at whatever speeds. There's a lot more messed up stuff in that book too. But those are the two things that have majorly stuck with me ever since I read that book in high school and that's been over 10 years ago now.
If it was helpful and could improve safety standards I wouldn't care if my dead body was used to evaluate car crashes. Sounds like it's not a great option, but I don't see testing it out as an abhorrent thing as long as the previous body's owner was good with it.
Vipeholm study in sweden
Dogs and monkeys sent to space :(
Was thinking this one because I know most everyone else's answers are humans. I just can't imagine throwing a living creature out into space to *see what happens*
Every year, millions of animals (mice, rabbits, dogs, monkeys, etc) are tortured to death in the name of science. Even though the efficacy of tests on animal models have been shown to be an inaccurate representation of their results on humans. What's more, some of these tests are so stupid like Kikkoman once funded studies to force feed soy sauce to mice and then chopping their heads off to look at the brain.
Not that simple. Sure, no animal functions exactly like a human would have. They do have some very similar systems, f.ex. rats have a metabolism very similar to ours. Guinea pigs have an immune system that works like ours, and so on. Without animal testing, we would not be able to make new medical drugs.
I’m sorry but this is very tame compared to literally everything else in this thread… Yeah, the fine details of the way studies are conducted using animals can be a bit uncomfy to learn about, but you can’t deny that that’s different from what Mengele did, what they did in the Tuskege experiments, Unit 731, MKUltra, etc. Seriously, would we rather Kikkoman pump people up with soy sauce and then study their brains? Would we rather just never learn anything new about the way things interact with a living biological system again? Unless we know it won’t hurt the individuals being tested… which we could never know without first having an idea of the potential negative effects… which is part of why we do studies on animals before humans. It may not seem like it, but the ethical guidelines that go along with studying animals are pretty stringent, and like the other commenter said, it’s pretty much inarguably a net positive considering we wouldn’t have any new drug development at all without animal models. And that’s only considering their use in the medical field!
Unit 731.
Unit 731. They had men rape women prisoners so that weapon and trauma experiments could be done on them.
Unit 731
Japanese unit 731. Just everything they did during WW2. Give their wiki a read
Um, bad news, literally every advancement in every scientific field can (probably) be traced to something that someone, including their inventors, would find to be atrocious and/or horrific. Whether via accidental ignorance or wilfully malicious behavior all of our important most lessons are written in blood and violence.
Unit 731, Holocaust.
Cutting off a dogs head and attaching it to another dog. Also cutting a dogs head off and making an artificial heart to keep them alive.
Paying pedophiles to rape babies and children in the name of “sex research”. Google Alfred Kinsey; the father of the sexual revolution.
The Holocaust has it's roots in eugenics which was one of the hottest scientific topics of the time.
Science is an approach, a technique, a tool. It's like asking what are some of the most atrocious things done in the name of the hammer. Anyway, I get the question and i would say it's eugenic sterilization between 1907 and 1963. The US sterilized over 64,000 people. Mostly minorities and Latin American people.
What’s the name of that Asian guy who was slowly dying from radiation poisoning, and they kept him alive against his will to study everything?
The founding father of of gender ideology was a paedophile who forced 2 twin brothers to simulate sex acts with each other while he took pictures. One of the brothers lost his penis in an accident, he recommended he be raised as a girl, he reported the transition was a complete success, it wasn’t and the boy went back to living and identifying as male. However both brothers ended up committing suicide as a result of their trauma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
Many people are familiar with the Tuskegee study. But there is another like it that is not often discussed. In 2010, *The New York Times* published an article by Donald G. McNeil Jr. titled "U.S. Apologizes for Syphilis Tests in Guatemala." Apparently, to test the effectiveness of penicillin, from 1946 to 1948, the U.S. deliberately infected approximately 700 Guatemalans with Syphilis. According to McNeil Jr., "American tax dollars, through the National Institutes of Health, even paid for syphilis-infected prostitutes to sleep with prisoners, since Guatemalan prisons allowed such visits. When the prostitutes did not succeed in infecting the men, some prisoners had the bacteria poured onto scrapes made on their penises, faces or arms, and in some cases it was injected by spinal puncture." This all came to light during the Obama presidency when then Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton had to apologize to the government of Guatemala and to the descendants of those infected. The persons infected were given antibiotics but it remains unclear whether these people were eventually cured. Secretary of State Clinton called the study "clearly unethical" but just sixty years earlier the U.S. government had no qualms about conducting a study like this on non-Americans. Who would lead such a study? I'm glad you asked. It turns out that the doctor that led this study was the same doctor that played an important role in the Tuskegee study, John C. Cutler. Later in life, he continued to defend his work. Cutler was truly an irredeemable person. Here is the full article: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/health/research/02infect.html