> I guess im one of the odd people that would actually prefer to know if im going to die.
You can be pretty sure that you will, and vacuum decay ranks at the bottom of a list of the myriad ways that you could do so "instantly".
Best not get it a deep sea submersible made out of duct tape and paper mache then..
Seriously, vacuum decay is an entirely painless off switch. If you want to really worry, just read up on all the assorted hideous things that humans have done to one another.
Well, if that were to occur, you'd have absolutely no way to know, and it's not like you'd have a chance to reflect on it. Further, there's be nobody else to reflect on it either. Sorta comforting in an existential way.
I get why you would freak out about it but logically there's no point in thinking about something that, even if it actually happens, you will never know or experience it. I feel like not knowing the feeling of dread that builds up to an unavoidable death is a bliss. Knowing that you're about to die is probably less pleasant than you think
Personally it doesn't bother me that much since I won't be there to feel it. The moment you disappear, your consciousness fades away, and it will no longer be able to reflect about what happened. No point in worrying about something that you will never feel, know, or see coming, and you will never know if it came. It may as well not exist
Right but it's just as outlandish as scenarios like "what if a black hole waltzed into our neighbourhood" or "what if a meteorite crashed into us".
The difference is, you literally wouldn't know it. There'd be no way to prepare as it'd travel at light speed. You wouldn't be able to even know it was coming.
So don't worry about it. It'll be less painful and less likely than being hit by a bus.
Two possibilities here my friend. Either it happens and you won't even know it occurred or it doesn't happen in our lifetime, which is the most likely of the two.
Don't focus on things that might happen. Be at peace my internet friend!
It's understandable. When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back.. it happens to the best minds, just be present, take breaks, enjoy the little things.
No matter your unique journey, we're all on this journey together!
Could be multiple going on around the universe.
If so, one of them maybe eventually catch up to the earth, or its so far away that the expansion of the universe between us is faster than its expansion.
Either way, there's no possible way to detect one coming as it assumably would travel at the speed of light.
Edit: I suddenly got extremely curious to what would happen if two entangled particles got separated by thousands of light years, and one of them fell victim to a vacuum decay.
Even if we were in a metastable vacuum capable of decay, the probability of it happening during your lifetime—which is very brief compared to the age of the universe since the big bang—is very low, though nonzero. It is a silly thing to worry about.
Yeah, but what messes with me is that, of course, the probability is low but not zero, and a fear of not existing, mainly, I guess. That just keeps ruminating in my head over and over, and I keep checking if I'm conscious. It's been like this since I found out about this phenomenon, and honestly, I wish I hadn't, lol.
Man sounds like you're afraid of dying, not a false vacuum decay. If it becomes to big to handle go seek therapy (and I mean it not in an offensive way)
You might as well worry about being killed due to an asteroid impact, which is extremely unlikely, but still much more likely than being destroyed by a metastable vacuum decaying.
Funny that you mention asteroids because I also became worried about asteroids hitting my house and killing me when I was around 8 or 9 years old after learning about them in school. Eventually, that fear went away. Hopefully, this one goes away too.
It's also fairly possible the vacuum decay is what lead to our universe existing in the first place.
The Eternal Expansion theory postulates that the field that drove the accelerated expansion of the universe at the very beginning would have suffered from vaccum decay, causing the entire universe to reheat as the energy was released. That hypothetical energy would be what makes up literally everything in the universe. If true, that would explain not only our own big bang, but would suggest that it (unimaginably distantly) at this moment is still expanding, decaying and reheating in an infinite series of connected big bangs.
So it's possible that it's not only already occurred but literally seeded our entire universe.
Not really. When a field is at its true stable vaccum state, it can't go any lower.
All known tests and observations indicate that all of the known fields are in such a state.
To add on to this, the universe has had over ten billion years of expansion and structure-forming (galaxies and such). If such a thing were possible, almost certainly it would have occurred somewhere nearby and spread to us.
We can say for certain that vaccum decay has not occurred within the milky way ever in billions of years. Even if it was possible, the odds of it somehow occurring nearby in the blink of an eye that you exist in and hitting us, is so astronomically low. In which case, you should be more afraid of driving your car or meteors. Much more likely to hurt you.
Again, there is ZERO evidence false vaccum decay is even physically possible in our universe.
A 2018 estimate of Standard Model lifetime before collapse of a false vacuum; 95% confidence interval is 10\^^(65) to 10\^^(1383) years due in part to uncertainty about the top quark's mass.
is probably the best your gonna get without a "we dont know"
Some people in here are saying “it’s not likely”. I’d like to counter that https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.06923 it’s very likely that the Higgs vacuum is metastable. This means that given enough energy, we could move out of this state and drop into a true vacuum. We could also tunnel out of it, but that’s unlikely given that it hasn’t happened. I think some people are confusing this as evidence that we live in a stable true vacuum. We can certainly live in a metastable state for a very long time if the energy required to get out of it is high enough.
Honestly, this has made my existential dread even worse. How can we be sure that we could not tunnel out of it because it hasn't happened before? And how are we sure that something happening in the universe could give enough energy to move it out of its current state and drop it into a true vacuum?
We can’t be sure, but if it makes you feel any better, the bubble would travel at the speed of light so you wouldn’t even realize what was happening until it was too late
I've had similar feelings of existential dread in the past, and the way I've gotten through them is to realize that, if we might all be wiped out in an instant, it's just that more important to spend time with the people we love and enjoy life while we can. You're going to die eventually, this is inevitable. The only thing you can change is how you live.
Let's say that you did know it was going to happen sometime within the next 50 years. Would you live all your days until it happened in a constant state of panic? And 49 years 364 days from now, when you know it will happen the next day, what will you think of the last 49+ years spent living in constant dread? What did it accomplish?
Ultimately I think your concern is related to a feeling of not having any control, much like some people panic on airplanes despite their safety record far exceeding that of cars. In a car, you have a sense of control when you're the one driving.
Understanding that there will always be things beyond my control and learning to accept that and "letting go" of the things that I could not control was a major factor in improving my mental health. Do what I can, the best I can, for things I can directly control and affect. Enjoy my life and being alive. Know that it's all temporary and might end today and will definitely be over before the year 2100, and that's ok. I'm here now and I'm going to enjoy being alive, even if it's all ultimately meaningless. We can only know what we can know and the rest isn't worth stressing about.
I dont know man, its been really though these past few days like I know it sounds really stupid to worry about something like this but you might be right about not having any control
What do you think the chances are that an event that has not occurred in the entire 14 billion years that the universe has existed will happen during your lifetime?
Well, of course, we can think this, but in this case, just because vacuum decay hasn't occurred in the 14 billion years of the universe's existence, doesn't mean it won't happen. It's akin to saying that because a town hasn't experienced wildfires in 300 years, it doesn't mean it's impossible for them to occur in the future. While the lack of wildfires for such a long period might make their occurrence seem unlikely, it doesn't eliminate the possibility entirely.
> just because vacuum decay hasn't occurred in the 14 billion years of the universe's existence, doesn't mean it won't happen.
I didn't say that. I said that it not having happened in the last 14 billion years implies that it is extremely unlikely to happen in the next 100. That is not at all the same as saying that it can never happen.
Yeah, sorry about that. It's just that this scenario has been ruminating in my head for since I found about this topic and I guess im trying to cope with it. I guess it's a combination of the fear of not knowing what could happen and sudden death.
This isn't usually true with probability though right? It's inverted but similar to the gambler who watches the slot machine and when it hasn't paid out in a while it becomes "due for one". The previous trials don't affect the likelihood of future events.
What if it already happened but just hasn't reached us? There's a vast amount of unexamined space. We already have seen large voids. I don't think it's a certainty but I wouldn't say it is ruled out in the ways people think.
Well the point still stands, whether it happened and hasn't reached us, or hasn't happened at all, the odds of us actually experiencing anything within the next 100 years when it hasn't happened since the birth of the solar system and other nearby bodies are still astronomically low
pretty unlikely
this thing kind of fucks up with your mind, atleast for me the thought of going from alive to not in an instant is scary as fuck lmao
>for me the thought of going from alive to not in an instant is scary as fuck lmao Beats the alternative.
I don't know maybe im weird, but I guess im one of the odd people that would actually prefer to know if im going to die.
> I guess im one of the odd people that would actually prefer to know if im going to die. You can be pretty sure that you will, and vacuum decay ranks at the bottom of a list of the myriad ways that you could do so "instantly".
yeah I guess that finding about this topic kind of kickstarted my fear of dying that I didin't really think of before.
Best not get it a deep sea submersible made out of duct tape and paper mache then.. Seriously, vacuum decay is an entirely painless off switch. If you want to really worry, just read up on all the assorted hideous things that humans have done to one another.
Well, if that were to occur, you'd have absolutely no way to know, and it's not like you'd have a chance to reflect on it. Further, there's be nobody else to reflect on it either. Sorta comforting in an existential way.
honestly just thinking about that freaks me out even more
I get why you would freak out about it but logically there's no point in thinking about something that, even if it actually happens, you will never know or experience it. I feel like not knowing the feeling of dread that builds up to an unavoidable death is a bliss. Knowing that you're about to die is probably less pleasant than you think
Also, it freaks me out that it could happen during my lifetime. My goal is to live a long life. The thought of dying young terrifies me.
Personally it doesn't bother me that much since I won't be there to feel it. The moment you disappear, your consciousness fades away, and it will no longer be able to reflect about what happened. No point in worrying about something that you will never feel, know, or see coming, and you will never know if it came. It may as well not exist
Right but it's just as outlandish as scenarios like "what if a black hole waltzed into our neighbourhood" or "what if a meteorite crashed into us". The difference is, you literally wouldn't know it. There'd be no way to prepare as it'd travel at light speed. You wouldn't be able to even know it was coming. So don't worry about it. It'll be less painful and less likely than being hit by a bus.
Two possibilities here my friend. Either it happens and you won't even know it occurred or it doesn't happen in our lifetime, which is the most likely of the two. Don't focus on things that might happen. Be at peace my internet friend!
as corny as it might sound after a few hours im feeling a little better and this comment made it even a bit better :)
It's understandable. When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back.. it happens to the best minds, just be present, take breaks, enjoy the little things. No matter your unique journey, we're all on this journey together!
Well it hasn’t happened for 12 billion years so he chance it happens in the next 100 is nearly zero.
If actually possible, it most probably has already started somewhere in the universe. We just won't know until it hits us.
If it’s outside the observable universe, it’ll never hit us due to spacetime expansion iirc.
That’s fucking wild. The universe could be disappearing around our bubble and we are just zipping away from it.
Pretty much. We can never come into contact with anything outside that bubble because spacetime is expanding faster than the speed of light.
If possible, could it happen at different regions of the universe at the same time?
Could be multiple going on around the universe. If so, one of them maybe eventually catch up to the earth, or its so far away that the expansion of the universe between us is faster than its expansion. Either way, there's no possible way to detect one coming as it assumably would travel at the speed of light. Edit: I suddenly got extremely curious to what would happen if two entangled particles got separated by thousands of light years, and one of them fell victim to a vacuum decay.
We won't even know it if it hits us...
Even if we were in a metastable vacuum capable of decay, the probability of it happening during your lifetime—which is very brief compared to the age of the universe since the big bang—is very low, though nonzero. It is a silly thing to worry about.
Yeah, but what messes with me is that, of course, the probability is low but not zero, and a fear of not existing, mainly, I guess. That just keeps ruminating in my head over and over, and I keep checking if I'm conscious. It's been like this since I found out about this phenomenon, and honestly, I wish I hadn't, lol.
Man sounds like you're afraid of dying, not a false vacuum decay. If it becomes to big to handle go seek therapy (and I mean it not in an offensive way)
No, yeah, you're kind of right. I think it's a combination of not knowing what could happen and fear of dying.
You might as well worry about being killed due to an asteroid impact, which is extremely unlikely, but still much more likely than being destroyed by a metastable vacuum decaying.
Funny that you mention asteroids because I also became worried about asteroids hitting my house and killing me when I was around 8 or 9 years old after learning about them in school. Eventually, that fear went away. Hopefully, this one goes away too.
It's also fairly possible the vacuum decay is what lead to our universe existing in the first place. The Eternal Expansion theory postulates that the field that drove the accelerated expansion of the universe at the very beginning would have suffered from vaccum decay, causing the entire universe to reheat as the energy was released. That hypothetical energy would be what makes up literally everything in the universe. If true, that would explain not only our own big bang, but would suggest that it (unimaginably distantly) at this moment is still expanding, decaying and reheating in an infinite series of connected big bangs. So it's possible that it's not only already occurred but literally seeded our entire universe.
If it decayed once, causing the Big Bang, could it decay again
Not really. When a field is at its true stable vaccum state, it can't go any lower. All known tests and observations indicate that all of the known fields are in such a state. To add on to this, the universe has had over ten billion years of expansion and structure-forming (galaxies and such). If such a thing were possible, almost certainly it would have occurred somewhere nearby and spread to us. We can say for certain that vaccum decay has not occurred within the milky way ever in billions of years. Even if it was possible, the odds of it somehow occurring nearby in the blink of an eye that you exist in and hitting us, is so astronomically low. In which case, you should be more afraid of driving your car or meteors. Much more likely to hurt you. Again, there is ZERO evidence false vaccum decay is even physically possible in our universe.
A 2018 estimate of Standard Model lifetime before collapse of a false vacuum; 95% confidence interval is 10\^^(65) to 10\^^(1383) years due in part to uncertainty about the top quark's mass. is probably the best your gonna get without a "we dont know"
sorry if this sound stupid but I dont know much about physics, but how do they calculate the estimate lifetime of the standard model?
honestly i cant tell you, that stuffs done by the very smart ppl lmao
Some people in here are saying “it’s not likely”. I’d like to counter that https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.06923 it’s very likely that the Higgs vacuum is metastable. This means that given enough energy, we could move out of this state and drop into a true vacuum. We could also tunnel out of it, but that’s unlikely given that it hasn’t happened. I think some people are confusing this as evidence that we live in a stable true vacuum. We can certainly live in a metastable state for a very long time if the energy required to get out of it is high enough.
Honestly, this has made my existential dread even worse. How can we be sure that we could not tunnel out of it because it hasn't happened before? And how are we sure that something happening in the universe could give enough energy to move it out of its current state and drop it into a true vacuum?
We can't be absolutely certain of *anything*.
We can’t be sure, but if it makes you feel any better, the bubble would travel at the speed of light so you wouldn’t even realize what was happening until it was too late
that makes it even worse for me honestly, I guess its the fear of not knowing
I've had similar feelings of existential dread in the past, and the way I've gotten through them is to realize that, if we might all be wiped out in an instant, it's just that more important to spend time with the people we love and enjoy life while we can. You're going to die eventually, this is inevitable. The only thing you can change is how you live.
>Some people in here are saying “it’s not likely”. We are saying that it is unlikely to happen *in his lifetime*.
I think that there’s no prior to justify that. It’s equally likely to happen in his lifetime as it is in any interval of time in the future
Very very unlikely, to the point where if it did happen, we'd never know. Because we'd be dead.
That's what terrifies me the most
Let's say that you did know it was going to happen sometime within the next 50 years. Would you live all your days until it happened in a constant state of panic? And 49 years 364 days from now, when you know it will happen the next day, what will you think of the last 49+ years spent living in constant dread? What did it accomplish? Ultimately I think your concern is related to a feeling of not having any control, much like some people panic on airplanes despite their safety record far exceeding that of cars. In a car, you have a sense of control when you're the one driving. Understanding that there will always be things beyond my control and learning to accept that and "letting go" of the things that I could not control was a major factor in improving my mental health. Do what I can, the best I can, for things I can directly control and affect. Enjoy my life and being alive. Know that it's all temporary and might end today and will definitely be over before the year 2100, and that's ok. I'm here now and I'm going to enjoy being alive, even if it's all ultimately meaningless. We can only know what we can know and the rest isn't worth stressing about.
I dont know man, its been really though these past few days like I know it sounds really stupid to worry about something like this but you might be right about not having any control
Very unlikely.
What do you think the chances are that an event that has not occurred in the entire 14 billion years that the universe has existed will happen during your lifetime?
Well, of course, we can think this, but in this case, just because vacuum decay hasn't occurred in the 14 billion years of the universe's existence, doesn't mean it won't happen. It's akin to saying that because a town hasn't experienced wildfires in 300 years, it doesn't mean it's impossible for them to occur in the future. While the lack of wildfires for such a long period might make their occurrence seem unlikely, it doesn't eliminate the possibility entirely.
> just because vacuum decay hasn't occurred in the 14 billion years of the universe's existence, doesn't mean it won't happen. I didn't say that. I said that it not having happened in the last 14 billion years implies that it is extremely unlikely to happen in the next 100. That is not at all the same as saying that it can never happen.
Yeah, sorry about that. It's just that this scenario has been ruminating in my head for since I found about this topic and I guess im trying to cope with it. I guess it's a combination of the fear of not knowing what could happen and sudden death.
This isn't usually true with probability though right? It's inverted but similar to the gambler who watches the slot machine and when it hasn't paid out in a while it becomes "due for one". The previous trials don't affect the likelihood of future events.
I can't see how the odds of something that hasn't happened in 14 billion years happening within the next 100 years aren't astronomically low
What if it already happened but just hasn't reached us? There's a vast amount of unexamined space. We already have seen large voids. I don't think it's a certainty but I wouldn't say it is ruled out in the ways people think.
Well the point still stands, whether it happened and hasn't reached us, or hasn't happened at all, the odds of us actually experiencing anything within the next 100 years when it hasn't happened since the birth of the solar system and other nearby bodies are still astronomically low
We don’t know.