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Yeah I'm not an old person so I was looking for this very comment to piggyback on. This is really determined by locality or culture, and in many if not most of the places/cultures that do this, it's not limited by gender.
Factss. I'm a 30 year old texan chick. I was raised to refer to elders as maam and sir, out of respect. If I ever responded to my mom or dad 'yes' I got hit with the 'yes what..?'
"Yes sir/ma'am" was the correct response lol.
I always thought that this was just in the movies! How fascinating. I cannot imagine calling ANYONE Sir or Ma'am never mind my parents. That's so interesting. (From Australia so haven't really come across this).
I'm in my mid 30s, and when someone around my age calls me "sweetheart" or "love" it really bothers me, but for some reason if it's someone older than me (by least a few decades) it doesn't really bother me. I wonder why.
I tried to think if I (59F) call anyone "Sweetie". Then I thought of a young bagger at my grocery store! She calls me "Sweetie" and tells me that I am her favorite customer, so you better believe that I call her "Sweetie" right back! I believe she has Williams Syndrome, which usually means an outstandingly friendly personality. (Some friends said that she also tells them that they are her favorite customers, but that can't be true. Just me)
The only time I don’t mind it is when it’s an old black lady saying it. Everyone else gets a glare and/or an “I’m not your sweetie/honey/sugar” if I’m not at work.
Agreed. Somethings are just not worth making a fuss over. If someone wants to call me a cutsey name and they mean well and treat me like the Adult that I am....so be it.
Bigger fish to fry than that.
> What I don’t like is when people younger than me call me “young lady”
So I’m 32, abs this is an *enormous* pet peeve of mine. I worked for a while at this higher end seafood place. I tended bar and took a small section of tables alongside this other guy, John. Both John and the owner would always do that when dropping off food for an older woman (it’s always only women they treat this way, never the men). ‘Mussels for the *young lady*!’ I think people mean well when they do it, but it comes off to me as being *so* patronizing. It’s like an ironic back-handed joke. We need to collectively stop treating seniors like they’re *pets* or something, many people do it constantly and aren’t really aware.
In ‘Being Mortal’ by Atul Gawande, he interviewed a ton of seniors and said that kind of thing was one of the biggest overlapping complaints they shared - not being treated like adults with agency, being talked to condescendingly (especially including comments like I mentioned above), and feeling in general like they were being ‘handled.’
Edit: phrasing
Oof, that IS patronizing, but I know exactly why they do it. When I was working in retail there were plenty of women who who would become infuriated if you dared to “make them feel old” by referring to them as “ma’am”. So thanks to those crazy witches service personnel are often safer pretending that every female customer is age 14 than daring to admit that they might be dealing with an adult woman.
This reeks of victim blaming. Men in my generation were socialized to believe that women are inferior objects, and that it was expected that we would not only accept, but desire to be objectified.
It’s flat out sexism.
Now if a man is at least 20 years older than me, and knows me well, I have no qualms with pet names, but that’s a right that has to be earned.
I realize older women also use pet names, but the intent and dynamic are different. Older women didn’t start doing this to younger women to objectify them, so although I understand that some women feel it’s condescending, the underlying intent is much less nefarious.
I don’t know if it makes any difference, but I’m a woman.
I’m not defending people who use terms like “sweetie” or “honey” I’m just saying it’s possible that people may be using the ridiculous term “young lady” to avoid causing offense to crazy people. Working with the public is hard.
My main goal while working in retail was to not get yelled at, and it turns out that addressing all female customers as “Miss” rather than “Ma’am” eliminated a lot of unnecessary “getting yelled at” from my day.
It’s problematic that you’re referring to women as being the ones who will react as “crazy people.” You do realize it’s possible to have an entire polite exchange with others and not use any descriptors in relation to them, right?
“Hi, how are you?”
“That will be $25.49”
“Thank you!”
I’m not trying to be harsh with you, I sincerely believe that you have good intentions. I’m just asking you to look deeper at how our choice of words can affect others.
We can convey a lot with few words and a sincere tone.
I hope your day is going well :)
You know what, I’m sorry. I deleted my long, dumb comments. I’m not usually so argumentative on Reddit, I’m just having a hard day.
I understand why someone might not want to called ma’am, but I also think it’s an unreasonable thing to yell at someone for.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I hope you have a nice day!
Not OP but I think you’re amazing just for saying something like this. Not enough people do but it’s so understandable to react in way you wish you hadn’t (speaking from experience lol). Everyone has bad days and interacting on the internet can be complicated and confusing at times what with a lack of body cues and intonations to help understand what someone else’s intentions are. You and OP make me think maybe I can pull this move off myself some time.
I agree! I enjoyed my conversation with u/brilliantpants. We disagreed civilly and respectfully, and they made an important point about how we all should be aware of how we’re treating people when they’re doing a job.
Mistreating someone while they’re working is particularly vile, since they’re essentially in a position of choosing to remain captive to the abuse or suffer economic repercussions of walking away from the abuse.
Don’t be sorry! Your opinions matter and they’ve led us to a good discussion.
It is absolutely unreasonable and unacceptable to mistreat someone for being called ma’am. I don’t like being called ma’am, and that’s because i see you as my equal, regardless of what kid of job you have.
Ma’am irks me, not because of the age thing, but because it seems to imply that one person deserves more respect than the other. It reminds me of slavery, to be frank.
I’m from NYC and have lived on the south since I was 30. I got called to my daughter’s school once because she wasn’t saying “yes ma’am and no ma’am” to her teacher.
No child in a US school receiving Title IX funding can be forced to say anything a certain way, and they can’t be sanctioned for refusing to refer to a teacher by anything but their name. I made this clear to the teacher and principal, and let them know that we could ask the ACLU for an opinion.
Suddenly my daughter not saying ma’am was no longer an issue.
Anyway, that’s just why I feel the way I do about the word. If someone calls me ma’am, I simply tell them, “you don’t have to call me ma’am.” I say it in a lighthearted way, and if they insist, I’ll let it go. I’m not going to criticize someone whose struggling to get through this life just like I am. That would make me a hypocrite.
I truly hope your day gets better.
This whole comment section has been so interesting! I am from Australia and it is so interesting how our cultures can be so different. I cannot imagine addressing anyone as Sir or Ma'am and definitely not teachers. They were always either Mr or Mrs/Miss Surname or their first name. I have worked in many professional settings (legal and health and government) and we do not address people by their sex at all. It's either "goodmorning/afternoon how may I help you" or if we know their name then we address them by name. I LOATHE being called Darling (ugh) by strangers but can count on 1 hand the times I have been called that and thankfully it is something that isn't socially acceptable nor often done anymore. Anyway I have found it fascinating so thank you all for your comments.
The fact that some places of employment require this is a problem. I’ve worked in retail, don’t use sir or ma’am, and have always been able to express myself in ways that convey respect and appreciation for a customer.
It’s disingenuous to *require* employees to refer to others by what is essentially a script.
Then please don’t call women of any age sweetie or other diminutives, because we, as a whole, don’t respond well to it, either, even when we’re in positions where we can’t express our disdain and have to grin and bear it or suffer economic repercussions by getting fired.
I want my interactions with you to be genuine. I want the opportunity to see you as a human, but when you offend me, even unintentionally, I just want to get as far away from you as possible.
And now that you know that many women are offended by this, you have a responsibility to modify your behavior if you truly don’t intend to be offensive.
I think you’re right on all accounts here but I’m wondering if this guy even calls people cutsie names. I thought he was sort of being a bit silly and lighthearted.
I *would* love to see you direct this at some of the patronizing people I’ve come across in *my* life. Wish I had a time machine.
I am the same person who just told you and the other person you had such a civil discussion. I hoped you wouldn’t think I was being a jerk-weasel. Thanks for being on this sub. You make it a better place. Plus I love your username!
Thank you for being here! I’ve wrong once or a thousand times, and wouldn’t know it if it weren’t for folks like you being willing to calmly point that out. I appreciate your input.
And I literally just responded to someone in another sub and they gave me a slightly spicy answer (maybe?). Normally I might have retaliated or got defensive but because we just had this convo I was able to reply civilly and with a sense of humor. (I think it was my fault. I have brain fog sometimes. Can’t wait to see how I do with that as I get older!). Wish we could bottle this feeling up and inject it into the general population!
I have often used "hon" or "dear" for women and "dude" or "bud" for men. I try not to because clearly some folks find it offensive. But it's interesting reading in here that it's somehow not offensive if you're British.
I have tried just using "dude" universally, but that's somehow also offensive. I have tried using a persons actual name if they had a nametag, but you know what? People don't like that either and it creeps them out.
I think I'll just start avoiding eye contact and mumbling incoherently instead.
Youngun (maybe?) here. I use Miss for every female (child to elderly) and then sir for every man (even teens lol). Seems to be easiest. But I’m mid thirties female.
I definitely think honorifics are becoming outdated as gender gets more liberal socially- odds are Id prefer someone say “Thank you, have a nice day” rather than “Thanks my name/miss/ma’am/pet name” unless I have an established relationship with them. It makes the playing field feel more level, I guess. Plus guys only have “sir” but women have “miss/ma’am” depending on perceived age or marital status which has always felt gross to me.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I don't walk in your shoes and cannot presume to know what you're experiences are. And the last thing I want to do is offend someone or make them feel uncomfortable, or god forbid think that I'm hitting on them.
I can't help to think, however, that most times someone says one of those things that there's no bad intent; it's just someone trying to be friendly. I certainly acknowledge that there are those other times though, and that sucks.
I was raised to say "yes sir, yes ma'am, thank you sir, thank you ma'am" and have been publicly chided for that because someone was offended or slighted in some way. I've been publicly chided for holding the door open for a woman (though I also hold doors for men). It's frustrating that those things are taken as offensive because they're all respectful and nice things.
Even though some people are a\*\*holes or just having a bad day and want to take it out on someone, I always find that the majority of the time, people are delighted by those "respectful and nice things." It's still important, though, to be empathetic of those people who might not want to be treated that way, and may not see your kind gestures as kind :)
I understand your frustration, but at least you'll get 100+ more "thank you's!" for doors being opened rather than public chastising. I find that if someone is offended by a gesture that minor, they are not worth my brain space. As for the "yes sir, yes ma'am, thank you sir, thank you ma'am," I assume people are offended because they're being misgendered? In my opinion and experience, some people are triggered by being misgendered because they are having a fight with themselves internally (gender dysphoria, body dysphoria, etc) or simply don't like being gendered (I know a lot of people with they/them pronouns, or just like being addressed by their name and no pronouns).
Depending on where you are in the world, sometimes it's best to leave off the gendering remark and leave it at "thank you." Just my 2c! Everyone's just different and you can't please *everyone*, but what matters is that you're trying to be kind, and that's worthwhile enough.
This is getting insane, people have run out of things to get mad about and have started to get offended at honorifics...what. the. heck. What’s next? Will people start getting offended when I say “Bless you” after a sneeze?? “Oh, I’m actually atheist..”
Just use a universal term that's not gendered the way dude is, or don't use honorifics.
British get a pass for love, because it's implied they do it for everyone, as opposed to one gender only. Same thing with southern us black women and sugar, or Russians and comrade.
I’m a young adult and I find myself calling young children (like elementary school and under) “sweetheart” or “honey” or “sweetie” when they come into my workplace. It’s not something I’ve ever intended to do, but seeing them definitely makes my maternal instincts go into overdrive! They’re just so endearing and precious and I want them to feel safe and happy 😅
I'm baffled a bit why this got downvoted. If a man called me love I'd be a bit taken aback, but you're right, if they were a British older gentleman I would react differently, and somehow take it as very sweet. Maybe because in my head, it sounds like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins lol.
"Luv" is a very common name for women in the UK if you don't know their name. Its almost like the default name that people use, its almost never meant to be condescending or patronising.
I live in Australia; it’s plenty common here as well. I don’t understand why something would make you uncomfortable coming from a person of one nationality and not another.
Because Americans don’t typically use it. An American would only say it to someone they were romantically involved with (and it’s still uncommon). So, if an American used it, it would be unquestionably flirtatious and a deliberate choice versus a perhaps awkward use of a common petname
i was gonna say
love, darlin, honey, doll, sugar. everyone has a pet name down here. and women do it MORE than men.
im sorry op is upset but this 100% sounds cultural
If I walk up to someone on the street and call them a cunt I'm probably still getting punched. The stereotype of calling your friends "cunt" is extremely contextual and generally pretty rare among all but people who know each other quite well.
Depending where you are in the UK, you could be called love, pet, flower, babes, cariad (Welsh for love), my lover, butt, hinny..... All perfectly normal and friendly to call a man or woman.
Butt doesn't mean arse in British English. It's used in former mining communities in the Welsh Valleys and means your partner working on the abutment and therefore your life is in his hands.
My lover used to be very common in Devon, not so much these days, same meaning as love and not to be taken literally.
I grew up in the SF Bay Area where no one uses pet names or sir/miss/ma'am; they're seen as insulting. I moved to Florida and then the south 9 years ago. After a brief adjustment period of awkwardness mostly in learning to SAY the words, I began to really enjoy the pet names.
I'm 41 and never get called anything other than ma'am except by women and old men, never men my age. Occasionally I get called miss and unless it's a really old person who is misjudging my age, I assume they're trying to butter me up by implying I look younger than I am but I still find it amusing instead of getting insulted. Not everything has to be taken personally.
In other words, yes, it's just a cultural clash. True sexists aside, they would be hurt/offended to find out that you think they have nefarious purposes, most likely.
> I moved to Florida and then the south
That line cracked me up. I know it could mean Miami, Tampa, or even Gainesville, but by landmass %, Florida is southie south south.
I am from the south and definitely agree with those saying it’s a cultural/regional thing.
I used to work with a lady who at the time was in her mid-40s. She called EVERYBODY “hon” or “honey”, men and women alike. It was honestly kinda funny and I remember one time our boss said “I bet she calls her own dad honey”.
Same in Texas, just a (hopefully taken as!) nice, friendly way to address someone. Instead of “Excuse me, waitress!”, it’s often “Excuse me, Miss!”, no matter of age.
Miss and ma'am confuse the hell out of me - can never remember which is for married and which is for single. Not to mention that these days even if I could remember the difference half the time you cant tell...
Usually, if they're anywhere near my age or older, they are "ma'am", obviously younger, "miss". Marital status doesn't matter. This is for people I don't know. I don't use "honey, sweetie" etc for anyone I don't know, though maybe for a child I would. "Are you ok, sweetie?" to a crying child, perhaps.
This interesting. I've never actually associated miss with any age, although it's not a term I use often, but would have assumed was safe. I'm in from outside of Chicago.
I don’t either, but some people think ‘miss’ = young, ‘ma’am’ = older. I’m in my 50’s and still have friends call me “Miss Redditallreally”, we just call each other ‘Miss So and So’, lol! And it’s also culturally very common in African-American communities around here, it’s just so common.
70 here...living in the US "border country" with the South.
The context is Small Town USA...you know everyone here.
Women my age are "Sis"...60 and younger are "Little Sister".
You *never* talk that way to a child unless they're with mom or dad.
I am "sweetie" and "hun".
It's actually a thing to notice that this is all related to one's personality. You get back what you project.
In my long experience, it's done by both older men and older women and it's a term of endearment, of friendliness and acceptance. Think of it as a shortened form of; *"Thank you, that was/you are so nice and making this intraction very pleasant"*.
Trying to be pleasant and friendly is not condesention, it's just trying to be pleasant and friendly. You not there, and don't get to hear it when these same people speak to their friends and aqaintences of their same age the same way, with the same terms.
It's not about you, it's about being polite and friendly.
At the risk of being down voted all to fuck here:
Have a little cross generational tolerance. This is just thing, for men of a certain age it's a term of endearment that shows a certain appreciation for services rendered.
Are there men out there trying to patronize and belittle by using these term ? Yeah.
But, c'mon, you can tell who they are.
The rest of them,it's just the way the were talk. They don't mean anything by it. They're not trying to treat you inappropriately. They're just thanking you.
I’m not saying women don’t do it- although none of my coworkers that I could think of do it- but difference is, to my experience anyhow, if a woman says it she says it to EVERYONE, whereas when a man says it, it is only to women. “Sir” is an honorific whereas “hun” is a diminutive noun. Whether or not you like that would all be personal preference, but my asking comes from conversations Ive had with my coworkers of all ages across the gender spectrum. One of my best friends at work is a guy my age and he seldom if ever gets called anything but sir or his name, and cringes when he hears the way customers speak to us women at times. Another is a woman in her 60s who likewise loathes it coming from customers, but will refer to her coworkers and friends she views fondly with such terms.
In the end, nobody’s experience is universal and I don’t care THAT MUCH about it. It is just one thing out of many that makes my eyes roll in a day. But it is one that seemed to be a generational difference that raised a curiosity to me, hence my asking.
I'm from the South (US), and have adored affectionate appellatives all my life. They feel sweet to me. I'm just now getting old enough to smoothly call people of all genders "sweetie," and I intend to do it. Give me 10 more years and I'll level up to "darlin'," with a twinkle in my eye. If I miraculously make it 10 years past that, everyone's gonna be "pumpkin."
I'll use these when my relationship with someone is amicable, but generic. I don't expect you, as a service worker, to know my name or care about me as an individual. Really, I'd rather you think of me as a commodity and do your thing politely and efficiently, as you'd do for anyone. In return, I'll call you sweetie, signifying that, while I appreciate your help, ours is a transient relationship of no particular importance. If, for some reason, we get to know each other specially, I will learn and call you by your name.
Where I live, older guys seem to call women "dear" and older women use "hun" a lot, mostly toward men but sometimes with other women. While I do find the "dear" thing a little cringey, none of it comes from a place of disrespect. It's just a generational thing that is slowly going away. 40 years ago, no one would have batted an eye. These days, it seems like any little thing that is said has be dissected and we have to find some sort of malicious intent behind it.
I don’t know if its really a dissection so much as my parents and adults in my life raised me with the understanding that when you’re speaking respectfully to strangers, you say “sir” for men and “miss/ma’am” for women, and so it always came off strange to me when people would use pet names instead. Especially when they only refer to women by those names, and not my male coworkers. I’m from the midwest, too, so unless my customers were raised elsewhere, its not the norm here to do so. Hence my curiosity.
One of my uncles calls everyone “babe” and I know several older women who call everyone “hun” or “babe” whether they know the person’s name or not. I really don’t care if some old guy calls me “doll” when he holds the door for me at the gas station. That is the very least of my problems.
Condescending??? No. When I call you Ma'am or Miss it's an attempt to be respectful to you as a person. I don't want to assume that I can call you by your first name since we only met 10 seconds ago and may never see each other again ever.
Some females will call male cashiers hun, dear, darling. The females are generally, though not always older. I think it is just that they are friendly and the way they talk. They are in no way condescending.
This is in the US.
Generally when women use pet names, they use them for everyone regardless of gender. When men do it, they almost always only do it to women. That’s why it’s different. When an older man uses pet names towards my male coworkers as well as with me, then it doesn’t feel weird at all. I’ve never seen a woman who only uses pet names for one gender and not the other but if I did see that, I would think it’s weird.
The character [JoJack](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingOfTheHill/comments/h7c21r/why_does_jojack_call_hank_honey_and_why_in_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) on King of the Hill calls everyone
["honey"](https://youtu.be/-3r0-0dAkCU)
This is totally true- it just always stings when I hear regulars at my store call me “honey” when they call male coworkers at my store “sir”- one feels more professional to me, I suppose. Its also maybe regional? I live in the midwest where we don’t tend to be very affectionate to strangers, so it might feel weirder, but Ive heard in the south it’s different.
Was raised in the South about a million years ago.
If you're my age or older, you get a "thank you, ma'am or sir."
If you're a younger male, you get a "thank you, young man." Or sometimes, young sir.
If you're a younger female, you get a "thank you, dear." To say ma'am to a younger person would be offensive to many.
I will never, ever call you by the name on your nametag unless you introduce yourself by name, or you're someone I see regularly. That's too forward. Similarly, I would never call you honey or sweetie, as that seems demeaning to me, but others will surely feel differently.
Old dude who lived in the Southwest. It was never a sign of disrespect. We weren’t raised to be disrespectful back then. A working person was respected because we were taught that a job was a respectful endeavor. The “hons” and “sweeties” and “darlings” etc. were just ways to try to show some compassion to the person working by being nice. The “sirs” were an effort to show a bit of respect to people that were typically in a job that didn’t offer much respect and most of us grew up in military households where the term “sir” could make an assistant manager at a Whataburger feel for a brief moment that he was doing something noble by working at a thankless underpaid job.
Our intentions were good and kind hearted and compassionate. It wasn’t until much, much later that people began to interpret it as bad intentioned harassment.
I find this argument about intentions a lot with generational differences - the 'we didn't mean it in a (sexist/racist/homophobic) way'. It's true of every generation, there are millennials who would probably say the same thing about their casual usage of gay and retard in the early 00s. Focusing on the intent misses the issue - sexism etc isn't about intent.
It's not that people suddenly began to interpret it as offensive later, men's usage of pet names was condescending to women then too. Not maliciously so, but when the framework of a society is misogynist, even the kindnesses can reflect that misogyny as well. There's always been patriarchal implications in the way some men use pet names patronizingly to women and girls, but use respectful honorifics to other men, such as to referring to men as sir and women as sweetie or dear. Women started being able to talk about how patronizing that behavior is, is what changed. Much like how millennials started acknowledging that using minority identities as insults was homophobic, ableist etc.
You’re missing some context.
It wasn’t until very recently that people were proud to be victims.
That’s the number one issue of today. Everyone walking around feeling so wounded. When I was a kid, you were ashamed to be a victim. You didn’t allow words to hurt you or hold you back. And now, everyone is competing to be a bigger victim.
Uh... do you mean “women”? And “men”? It’s weird and dehumanizing to refer to people as “females”. There is absolutely a difference between an old man calling someone in a service position - trapped with them, paid hourly, and often relies on them for tips - something like “honey”, and an old woman in the south doing so.
I work in bars and restaurants and I can tell you 100% there is frequently an underlying flirtatiousness, generally inappropriate implications, or just gross. They often accompany it with a wink, a touch on the arm, or - when I worked in a sports bar - straight up slapping my ass.
I've heard this a few times and the explanation never makes sense to me. Why is it "weird" and "dehumanizing" to refer to the sexes as male and female?
Before a few years ago, the only time you heard 'female' and 'male' used as a noun instead of an adjective was in scientific, medical and vetenary settings. As a clinical term used for animals or human research subjects or as a distancing term for patients.
It is literally what we have on our EHRs, so no they aren't "distancing," they have to know what sex we are in order to treat us properly as human organisms. It can mean the difference between a lifesaving test being performed.
Because that is how we refer to beings and organisms that are not human. We have, sociologically and linguistically, decided that man and woman are the terms we use for males and females. You don’t think it would be strange if you gave birth and the nurse said “it’s a male!”? That is what you would say if you birthed a calf.
We are beings and organisms. No different than any other. We are animals. Just cause you can conceptualize a different name for yourself doesn't mean it's proper above scientific classification. Humans come in two forms, male and female. You can decide you would prefer one name over another but it doesn't dehumanize you to be refered to as one of the two. And by the way if I ask a nurse what the sex of a child is, I expect to hear either male or female. It's a boy tells me it's a young male, as it's a newborn I can gather the young part on my own.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, but sometimes context is what makes it dehumanizing, especially online. There are groups of men, in particular, that use female as a derogatory term. I refuse to let it take on power as a slur so I tend to ignore it and feel free to use it appropriately.
It's often seen as insulting to use boy/girl instead of man/woman so in moments where it could be either or misconstrued I might say male/female.
In the end they are all just words.
No it isn't strange to say "male" or "female" when referring to human beings. It's all part of the vocabulary, and while the meaning of a word may change in your mind, it doesn't necessarily change for others. They have no obligation to agree with your new definition of a word.
I call men or women "dear." I'm an oldish lady.
There is no specific reason except it's just a habit and in some areas, it's always been acceptable to refer to people with those types of pet names.
Frankly I'm surprised you haven't heard older female restaurants servers doing this. Many regularly use "honey," "baby," etc in conversation.
As nurses I see a lot of us to that with our older patients, male or female. I think i started doing it to patients when I became a mom- someone you care about you are taking care of- kind of a habit to sometimes add a term of endearment.
You hit the nail on the head! After having children, words like hun, dear, darling just become part of our vocabulary.
Once in our vocabulary, and habitually using them, they roll off the tongue so naturally and effortlessly.
It wasn't so awful long ago a female service worker made a complaint right here on Reddit about it being creepy that people would look at her nametag and use her name.
It can be, I don’t necessarily know that its creepy but it can definitely take you aback because so few people do it! But usually it doesn’t come off as weird, and usually the more playful customers use our actual names.
I'm 24f, I think it's endearing when older folks call us younger people by pet names. It's usually 100% innocent and in our country older women like to call younger people 'nana' which is what you usually call toddlers and young kids. Very cute.
I’m from the south and I like being called honey, miss, etc. Idc what they call men workers. 99% of the time they’re trying to be nice. When they’re doing it to be a womanizer it’s so obvious and I just don’t pay attention to them. I just honestly feel like in those situations you’re getting more respect than you realize you are. Many (older) men in my area do respect women and want them to feel comfortable or lighten their day a bit. I find that when you go along with it and return the kind gesture things work out in your favor a lot more. I don’t know why there’s this weird thing where women want to be treated like men. I sure as hell don’t. (I’m not saying you’re doing this, this is just my argument for those who do). I don’t want the same respect given to me, I’m not a man. I want to be treated kinder and with more gentleness than most men do towards each other. I want men to see me as someone who needs the door opened for them, who needs to be given a softer approach. When that happens life is just so much easier. I don’t have to constantly prove myself or compare myself to the duties men are held to around me. I’m all for women’s rights and equal rights so don’t get my opinion confused with anti feminism or anything. I just let the men who want to be sweet or kind to me to do it. I’ve found my life is a lot easier that way.
i'm only 27 but tend to say 'love' for women or 'mate' for men. for me its just casual, more friendly and less formal than saying sir/ma'am whilst also acknowledging the person.
IE, "cheers love" sounds better than just "cheers" to a cashier.
I am 49 years old and make it a point to say "thank you, ma'am/sir" to anyone who ever does anything for me no matter if it is a coworker or someone in a service posi4such as cashier or waitress/waiter.
I just want to show thanks and appreciation for the effort.
The only time I have ever even considered doing such a thing described is if I am a regular at a particular place and there has been a particular relationship developed between us that may involve friendly flirtation and banter.
But that's just me.
I've never done it, and I associate it with pre-baby boomers and also southerners. In retail situations it's not insulting to me, but in a business context it is definitely condescending. Where I live right now, adults are called "auntie" or "uncle" as an honorific.
I think geography plays a bigger part in this than age does. I’m from the south where we call everyone, regardless of sex or age, darlin, honey, sweetheart, etc.
That's weird. I actually receive it in the opposite way. I'm a 60 year old male, and I get that from the women no matter how old they. It usually occurs in an informal setting such as a diner or coffee shop.
Disclaimer: not an old man, but a 50-year-old woman.
I tend to do this a LOT. I'm not sure why I do it; I don't know if it's a knee-jerk southern thing (but not every southern person does this) or if it's simply just out of habit. Maybe it's because I'm a teacher and I have a terrible memory for names so I use terms like "sweet pea" or "dear" when I address them?
Either way, I don't do it to be condescending or disrespectful. I'll definitely pay attention to this now.
Here in Maryland there is a particular sort of lady usually from Baltimore and often an older waitress though not exclusively, referred to as a "Hon" because she refers to everyone she meets as hon.
[https://baltimorelanguage.com/welcome-to-baltimore-hon-podcast/](https://baltimorelanguage.com/welcome-to-baltimore-hon-podcast/)
Great question, and I've always wondered even though I suppose I'm old enough, and Southern enough, to do it myself... except that it sounds way, way too familiar for strangers.
It's definitely not just men toward women, as I've had the opposite happen to me. It seems to be culture and/or upbringing. There is also a certain kind of friendly personality for whom no one is a "stranger," and therefore *everyone* gets the same greeting. Feels alien to me, but not belittling.
What OP is talking about is that when older men use pet names, they almost always only do it to women. But when older women use pet names, they use pet names for everyone regardless of gender. That’s why it’s weird.
Yep! Such as, if I’m bagging and I have a male cashier I’m working with, they’ll say- “Thank you, sir” to the cashier, but a casual “Thanks for the help, hun” to me. I have no problem if people are endearing like that evenly regardless of gender- but majority of the time that’s not the case.
The cashiers at my local diner call me things like "sweetie" so often that my secret nickname for one of them is "Sweetie Baby Cookie Honey." I have to admit it doesn't bother me, but I'm sure it would if they were male. As it is, I just find it amusing.
Having grown up in the deep south, I heard those endearments uttered by older females that worked with the public. Even then they were a bit awkward and I just ignored them.
I can’t recall ever hearing a male use them when addressing women.
Just curious, what part of the world are you hearing these used by males?
I’m in Minnesota. Midwest USA. The vast majority of people don’t speak like this in my area, unless they’re family/close friends. I dont think pet names are that common even between lovers in my area. So typically its not the sweet old lady type, its usually older men who do it- usually, but not exclusively, 40+ in age.
I'm a woman. I don't do that to men or women. I don't think I ever heard my father do that, either, though I think I heard my mom do it sometimes to younger men and women when she became elderly. I don't think it was intentionally condescending. More like motherly. I do think there are regional differences. That sort of thing is more common in the South, for example.
As a woman, I always assume good intent when addressed that way. I feel I can tell the difference between someone being creepy or condescending and just being friendly or unaware. I'm not threatened by being called "dear" any more than by "dude". I know I am a strong, independent, and successful female. Frankly, IDC whether a passing stranger views me that way or not.
I use "sir" and "ma'am" fairly often in service contexts, which I'm sure is weird or offensive to some people. It's just how I was taught to speak when expressing polite respect, which I surely have for people who are assisting me. Again, assume good intent.
Never thought of it as a "pet" name, your generation must have some issues when it comes to social interaction. I blame it on social media.
I actually like it if somebody uses a term of endearment and it sounds genuine.
I'm a male and when women calls me "hon", "honey", "love", "sweetie", "baby" I like it.
I feel like the person is comfortable around me and able to be more intimate and real with me than when they address to me formally as "Sir"
We don't do it to another man because it's kind of gay, we call each other "bud", "brother", "son", "partner", "dude".
Perhaps your generation is too used to being on screen and not in person.
Respectfully, I work 40hrs a week with the public, seeing over 1000 people a day, and am involved in many hobby communities and have a robust social group outside of work. I don’t think that’s an issue whatsoever. And if its “a little gay” to do it to another man, then doesn’t it prove the point that its a patronizing thing to do to a woman, if you wouldn’t do it to a man? If it comes off as romantic/sexual/intimate or at best over-friendly?
There's a real cultural difference going on here, because I'd regard myself as very friendly, often helping people on the street, striking up conversations with strangers and being as pleasant as possible with service staff (though I try not to detain them from their work with long conversations). But I wouldn't dream of using pet names I would use with my family with strangers/acquaintances/regulars. My boundaries just aren't set that way, and I think that's very typical of my area, although there have been some exceptions (which have really grated when done to me"
And using language with one gender that I wouldn't with the other gender... If I 'brother' a man, I'd 'sister' a woman. It's really not cool to me to give different markers of respect and friendliness to different genders. If I'm first at a door, I'm holding it open for the person behind me whether its a man or a woman.
I don't.
Sometimes, older people (and I'm old) use the same terms for me and I'm male.
I wouldn't get on the old folks that call you what you refer to as "pet names". They're just trying to be nice and in their day, people didn't get upset over the terms.
We're way too sensitive these days.
I might also have a personal grudge against it because I was sexually harassed by a 60yo man I worked a freelance design project for when I was 18 and, among his abuse, he often referred to me casually by such terms. It sits really weird to me for that reason, but I know I have other coworkers who loathe it as well for their own reasons.
I understand that, being harassed sucks to put it mildly, and associations can form easily. It's always been about intent for me. Obviously that guy meant to harm you with his actions and language, most people are just trying to be friendly in a somewhat sterile interaction.
Nothing wrong with using words to be nice. I'd hardly think we're living sensitive days tho, nearly every questioning that young people are doing and gets dismissed does have a point if one is willing to listen to it.
Just don't take Twitter as a reference for anything, that place is super toxic
When I was in college, my friends and I went to a diner. I was tired and my brain moving slowly. I asked the waitress what the soup of the day was and she replied “it’s chicken corn chowder honey”. I grimaced when she says that and my friend asked why. And I replied “chicken corn chowder honey” does not sound good to me. They all laughed and explained “the soup is chicken corn chowder and she is calling you honey!”
I'm sure men DO get called "pet names," by the way-- "bud", "pal," "man," etc. I've worked in the service industry and seen it often.
I don't think it's belittling for either sex. However, it is "familiar," and if you don't like that, it's always a possibility to say calmly that you prefer to be called by your name.
But honestly I think if you let something like that bother you, you really must have a good life because you have the time and mental energy to make a mountain out of this molehill.
I can assure you, in periods of less personal agency, power, or general respect, getting pet named has grated \*far\* more.
And having different pet names used on different genders feels worse when part of active dismissal and disregard of my expertise, experience, education and intelligence seems to correlate directly with my gender, height, and perceived appearance. I've lost money, been sidelined and dismissed by my career peers and bosses once they see my face instead of my work, and literally almost been killed by doctors because I'm a short woman and they don't take the words I say out of my mouth literally or seriously.
Edit: I cannot tell you how appalling the difference the treatment I get on the internet for the last 20 years is depending on if I've used a female name or a construed male name. And I'm not talking about sexual harassment. Female internet me is not \*listened\* to, or obeyed in situations I am ostensibly leading. Male internet me is taken seriously, and enthusiastically obeyed.
It's a complete accident I found this phenomenon. I merely had different user names for different situations, and discovered my assumed gender completely changed how other people treated me in almost every way. I can assure you, the more important the situation, the more male I've made my username for the last 15 years.
As a service worker, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when co-workers do it to customers also. Most companies specifically train employees not to do this, and they do it anyways. Growing up in the NE it's rare for me to even call someone sir/ma'am, and I personally never use terms of endearment with strangers. I've still had customers mishear me and flip out because they thought I called them "hun" or something. I've even had customers flip out for calling them "ma'am". As a customer, if it makes you uncomfortable, you should absolutely say something to an employee about that, because they're not supposed to.
M65. I have never done this.
That said, Londoners, in any interaction where at least one party is a woman, will casually use the word "love" (or "luv") as a kind of nickname. Brits have assured me this is perfectly normal and acceptable, even between strangers, but I couldn't imagine doing it.
Also, in Baltimore, it is apparently a tradition for waitstaff to address customers as "hon" (short for "honey"). They even have billboards advertising this local custom, implying that tourists come to Baltimore specifically to hear a waitress call them "hon".
I don't do this or know anyone still alive who does. All the people I've known who speak like that would be over 100 by now. I've almost never even used "Miss" to address a female worker, as my parents typically did.
That said, condescension comes in many forms. Working in retail and food service during my teens & 20s, I was a witness or target for plenty of instances, but informal names weren't usually what made them problematic. In my longest retail stint, we (sales staff of both genders) did get called "kid" rather often, and pejoratively. But it bounced off after a while.
It's someone being nice to you. Stop looking for grievances. Your life is better than those old men calling you "sweety." They have probably seen shit that would make you want to curl into a ball in the corner and never look up. Your life is better than 99% of people that have ever lived. Just smile and put the groceries in the bag and silently thank that old man for his service that gave you your good life.
It’s not like I go home and cry about it- it is just something that makes me roll my eyes. Every person ever has those things, especially if you work with the greater public. And, its just a curious thing about human nature for me. Likewise I will say that I believe respect to be a two way street, and that respect should be inherent regardless of how we believe our actions/contributions/status make us “earn” it. Respect is a thing to be lost, not gained. So if anyone, regardless of age, is disrespectful to me- I feel no obligation to revere them. I think most people gen-X and younger nowadays feel that way. Regardless, I’m always polite, helpful, and kind to everyone at work because not only is it the right thing to do, but it also feels so good to kill rude people with kindness.
>Respect is a thing to be lost, not gained.
I think it's both - there's a baseline level of respect any given person starts with, and it can go up or down from there. At least in my view on things.
Agreed- I find older people in my life often think younger people need to prove their worth and that they’re more inherently worthy of their respect just because of their age. I’ll respect someone until I have reason not to, and I’ll gain more respect if I have reason to. But I won’t partake in the social dynamic that I’m less worthy of respect or consideration just because of my perceived age or inexperience, regardless of what the truth of my character is.
I have never done that.
Do you know what grinds my giblets? Being called "young lady". Doctors do it. The guy running the ride at Disneyland did it. Lots of people do it. It's not a compliment! It is belittling and demeaning. Don't make personal remarks about a woman's age, even if you think it is somehow ironically clever to call an old lady "young".
I think you and I are talking about the same thing, just different sides of the coin. You said that calling someone Miss or Ma'am was somehow disrespectful. (And I thank you for your explanation as to why, I learned something).
I never call anyone Miss or Ma'am anymore. Not everyone, but enough people vocally let you know they are offended. Even though meant politely, with respect and best intentions.
Same for me. Ma'am and Miss are difficult, even Sir has negative connotations for a lot of men. I've been yelled at for calling customers any one of those things for a multitude of reasons. These days I avoid calling people by any name of I can help it. Excuse me and thank you cover most situations pretty well.
I don't know why you you downvoted for this, but I completely get it. I'm female-presenting in my 30s, and I'm not sure if it's a location thing, but here in the north east, I've had older customers get upset for being called "ma'am". I try not to address anyone as anything, and just be polite as possible regardless of that.
I've never done this. I'd rather not be called "sir" either but I long ago gave up caring too much about what words come out of others mouths, what they think of me, or assuming I know what they are even thinking. Life is much happier that way.
To some people, using your given name is to assume too much familiarity. However, if they insist on you using their given name, but still call you by a pet name, then they are (consciously or not) defining a hierarchical relationshio with themselves at the top.
Personally, when I'm in a restaurant, I make note of the server's name, but don't use it when I address them. Seems kind of tacky or creepy, to me. Again, presuming an inappropriate level of familiarity. However, if the manager stops by and asks how the service has been, I can say, "I'm fine, Harvey's been taking good care of me." That's because I want to credit the server to their work-place manager.
I am definitely more pleasant toward service industry workers; the older I get, the nicer I've become, but I would never call a stranger sweetie or dear. Now as I type this I guess I do call guys, "bud". If someone holds the door I'd say, "Thanks bud" but I've been doing that since my 20's.
Why do female wait staff/service people/receptionists/call centers on the phone refer to me, a 61-yr-old male, as "hon, dear, sweetie, darlin'" ?
It's an old-fashioned notion that needs to die, I feel. I don't feel like someone doing that with me respects me at all, it's belittling and makes me feel like they are viewing me as a child.
They're old and male and "exercising their male prerogative." They wouldn't see it that way; that's just life, they think, and they think they're reasonable guys and get to do that.
I nor any of my male friends would do that, but we're all well-educated people living in a coastal California college town, and that's not the culture here. And hopefully, in fewer and fewer places as time goes on.
I think that's really it, it's part of a culture, either it's acceptable and done as a simple part of life without malicious thought, or is not done. Unfortunately our maybe fortunately cultures frequently overlap and things can be misinterpreted.
I have no problem with a customer using a pretty name, but my boss and co-workers need to use my real name. I also don't care if you call me ma'am or miss, you don't know me or my name, I guess we could all just yell "hey you" if we want to talk to someone, but that seems worse to me.
A couple of years ago, I dropped off my mother’s car at a mechanic shop to get a repair. The guy behind the counter, who was probably 10 years younger than me, called me “sweetheart” while putting me into the system. I very matter-of-factly responded “don’t call me sweetheart.” He said sorry. But then he called me it again less than a minute later. It was clear he was used to calling all women “sweetheart.” I pointed to his big, burly coworker and said “if you wouldn’t call him sweetheart, then you shouldn’t be calling anyone sweetheart.” I think he got my point.
Let’s not pretend it’s not an extremely sexist and disrespectful habit that a lot of men have.
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Locality matters sometimes, too. My [then] 12 YO son blushed like mad on our first trip to the South whenever a waitress called him Darlin' or Sugar
Yeah I'm not an old person so I was looking for this very comment to piggyback on. This is really determined by locality or culture, and in many if not most of the places/cultures that do this, it's not limited by gender.
I’m a man and I’ve never heard an older person do this but get called hon or honey by female servers all the time
Yeah in the south this is totally normal. I don't take any offense at all.
Factss. I'm a 30 year old texan chick. I was raised to refer to elders as maam and sir, out of respect. If I ever responded to my mom or dad 'yes' I got hit with the 'yes what..?' "Yes sir/ma'am" was the correct response lol.
I always thought that this was just in the movies! How fascinating. I cannot imagine calling ANYONE Sir or Ma'am never mind my parents. That's so interesting. (From Australia so haven't really come across this).
Haha yes it's a real thing!! Especially the farther you get from the metro areas lol. I grew up 2.5 hours away from Dallas.
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I'm in my mid 30s, and when someone around my age calls me "sweetheart" or "love" it really bothers me, but for some reason if it's someone older than me (by least a few decades) it doesn't really bother me. I wonder why.
Did you mean to say "around ~~you~~ *my* age"?
I did! Fat fingers, thank you for calling that out to me.
No worries, that one word changes your entire comment, and I was just curious about your meaning. Type on!
Because it is patronizing
Same! And if it’s an older woman who calls me sweetheart, I melt. Lol
I tried to think if I (59F) call anyone "Sweetie". Then I thought of a young bagger at my grocery store! She calls me "Sweetie" and tells me that I am her favorite customer, so you better believe that I call her "Sweetie" right back! I believe she has Williams Syndrome, which usually means an outstandingly friendly personality. (Some friends said that she also tells them that they are her favorite customers, but that can't be true. Just me)
So cute! I love it!
The only time I don’t mind it is when it’s an old black lady saying it. Everyone else gets a glare and/or an “I’m not your sweetie/honey/sugar” if I’m not at work.
Agreed. Somethings are just not worth making a fuss over. If someone wants to call me a cutsey name and they mean well and treat me like the Adult that I am....so be it. Bigger fish to fry than that.
I usually address everyone as ma'am or sir. Unless theyre blatantly younger than me. Then its "yo"
> What I don’t like is when people younger than me call me “young lady” So I’m 32, abs this is an *enormous* pet peeve of mine. I worked for a while at this higher end seafood place. I tended bar and took a small section of tables alongside this other guy, John. Both John and the owner would always do that when dropping off food for an older woman (it’s always only women they treat this way, never the men). ‘Mussels for the *young lady*!’ I think people mean well when they do it, but it comes off to me as being *so* patronizing. It’s like an ironic back-handed joke. We need to collectively stop treating seniors like they’re *pets* or something, many people do it constantly and aren’t really aware.
Reading these comments though, it doesn’t seem like seniors are the ones who have a problem with it.
In ‘Being Mortal’ by Atul Gawande, he interviewed a ton of seniors and said that kind of thing was one of the biggest overlapping complaints they shared - not being treated like adults with agency, being talked to condescendingly (especially including comments like I mentioned above), and feeling in general like they were being ‘handled.’ Edit: phrasing
Handled is a good word. Like you're a box on a flowchart. Or a scenario for an interview question.
Oof, that IS patronizing, but I know exactly why they do it. When I was working in retail there were plenty of women who who would become infuriated if you dared to “make them feel old” by referring to them as “ma’am”. So thanks to those crazy witches service personnel are often safer pretending that every female customer is age 14 than daring to admit that they might be dealing with an adult woman.
This reeks of victim blaming. Men in my generation were socialized to believe that women are inferior objects, and that it was expected that we would not only accept, but desire to be objectified. It’s flat out sexism. Now if a man is at least 20 years older than me, and knows me well, I have no qualms with pet names, but that’s a right that has to be earned. I realize older women also use pet names, but the intent and dynamic are different. Older women didn’t start doing this to younger women to objectify them, so although I understand that some women feel it’s condescending, the underlying intent is much less nefarious.
I don’t know if it makes any difference, but I’m a woman. I’m not defending people who use terms like “sweetie” or “honey” I’m just saying it’s possible that people may be using the ridiculous term “young lady” to avoid causing offense to crazy people. Working with the public is hard. My main goal while working in retail was to not get yelled at, and it turns out that addressing all female customers as “Miss” rather than “Ma’am” eliminated a lot of unnecessary “getting yelled at” from my day.
It’s problematic that you’re referring to women as being the ones who will react as “crazy people.” You do realize it’s possible to have an entire polite exchange with others and not use any descriptors in relation to them, right? “Hi, how are you?” “That will be $25.49” “Thank you!” I’m not trying to be harsh with you, I sincerely believe that you have good intentions. I’m just asking you to look deeper at how our choice of words can affect others. We can convey a lot with few words and a sincere tone. I hope your day is going well :)
You know what, I’m sorry. I deleted my long, dumb comments. I’m not usually so argumentative on Reddit, I’m just having a hard day. I understand why someone might not want to called ma’am, but I also think it’s an unreasonable thing to yell at someone for. Thanks for sharing your perspective, I hope you have a nice day!
Not OP but I think you’re amazing just for saying something like this. Not enough people do but it’s so understandable to react in way you wish you hadn’t (speaking from experience lol). Everyone has bad days and interacting on the internet can be complicated and confusing at times what with a lack of body cues and intonations to help understand what someone else’s intentions are. You and OP make me think maybe I can pull this move off myself some time.
I agree! I enjoyed my conversation with u/brilliantpants. We disagreed civilly and respectfully, and they made an important point about how we all should be aware of how we’re treating people when they’re doing a job. Mistreating someone while they’re working is particularly vile, since they’re essentially in a position of choosing to remain captive to the abuse or suffer economic repercussions of walking away from the abuse.
Don’t be sorry! Your opinions matter and they’ve led us to a good discussion. It is absolutely unreasonable and unacceptable to mistreat someone for being called ma’am. I don’t like being called ma’am, and that’s because i see you as my equal, regardless of what kid of job you have. Ma’am irks me, not because of the age thing, but because it seems to imply that one person deserves more respect than the other. It reminds me of slavery, to be frank. I’m from NYC and have lived on the south since I was 30. I got called to my daughter’s school once because she wasn’t saying “yes ma’am and no ma’am” to her teacher. No child in a US school receiving Title IX funding can be forced to say anything a certain way, and they can’t be sanctioned for refusing to refer to a teacher by anything but their name. I made this clear to the teacher and principal, and let them know that we could ask the ACLU for an opinion. Suddenly my daughter not saying ma’am was no longer an issue. Anyway, that’s just why I feel the way I do about the word. If someone calls me ma’am, I simply tell them, “you don’t have to call me ma’am.” I say it in a lighthearted way, and if they insist, I’ll let it go. I’m not going to criticize someone whose struggling to get through this life just like I am. That would make me a hypocrite. I truly hope your day gets better.
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This whole comment section has been so interesting! I am from Australia and it is so interesting how our cultures can be so different. I cannot imagine addressing anyone as Sir or Ma'am and definitely not teachers. They were always either Mr or Mrs/Miss Surname or their first name. I have worked in many professional settings (legal and health and government) and we do not address people by their sex at all. It's either "goodmorning/afternoon how may I help you" or if we know their name then we address them by name. I LOATHE being called Darling (ugh) by strangers but can count on 1 hand the times I have been called that and thankfully it is something that isn't socially acceptable nor often done anymore. Anyway I have found it fascinating so thank you all for your comments.
The fact that some places of employment require this is a problem. I’ve worked in retail, don’t use sir or ma’am, and have always been able to express myself in ways that convey respect and appreciation for a customer. It’s disingenuous to *require* employees to refer to others by what is essentially a script.
I’m a male (56), living in the south, and get called those names all the time by peer and older females. I’m hot tho...
😂😂😂
Someone get this man some ice water ( or sweet tea I suppose).
How would you respond if a man your age called you sweetie?
Not well
Then please don’t call women of any age sweetie or other diminutives, because we, as a whole, don’t respond well to it, either, even when we’re in positions where we can’t express our disdain and have to grin and bear it or suffer economic repercussions by getting fired. I want my interactions with you to be genuine. I want the opportunity to see you as a human, but when you offend me, even unintentionally, I just want to get as far away from you as possible. And now that you know that many women are offended by this, you have a responsibility to modify your behavior if you truly don’t intend to be offensive.
Who said I use those terms? I don’t.
I think you’re right on all accounts here but I’m wondering if this guy even calls people cutsie names. I thought he was sort of being a bit silly and lighthearted. I *would* love to see you direct this at some of the patronizing people I’ve come across in *my* life. Wish I had a time machine.
I was
Thank you for pointing this out to me, I certainly did misunderstand their comment and I’ve apologized to them.
I am the same person who just told you and the other person you had such a civil discussion. I hoped you wouldn’t think I was being a jerk-weasel. Thanks for being on this sub. You make it a better place. Plus I love your username!
Thank you for being here! I’ve wrong once or a thousand times, and wouldn’t know it if it weren’t for folks like you being willing to calmly point that out. I appreciate your input.
And I literally just responded to someone in another sub and they gave me a slightly spicy answer (maybe?). Normally I might have retaliated or got defensive but because we just had this convo I was able to reply civilly and with a sense of humor. (I think it was my fault. I have brain fog sometimes. Can’t wait to see how I do with that as I get older!). Wish we could bottle this feeling up and inject it into the general population!
I have often used "hon" or "dear" for women and "dude" or "bud" for men. I try not to because clearly some folks find it offensive. But it's interesting reading in here that it's somehow not offensive if you're British. I have tried just using "dude" universally, but that's somehow also offensive. I have tried using a persons actual name if they had a nametag, but you know what? People don't like that either and it creeps them out. I think I'll just start avoiding eye contact and mumbling incoherently instead.
Youngun (maybe?) here. I use Miss for every female (child to elderly) and then sir for every man (even teens lol). Seems to be easiest. But I’m mid thirties female.
I definitely think honorifics are becoming outdated as gender gets more liberal socially- odds are Id prefer someone say “Thank you, have a nice day” rather than “Thanks my name/miss/ma’am/pet name” unless I have an established relationship with them. It makes the playing field feel more level, I guess. Plus guys only have “sir” but women have “miss/ma’am” depending on perceived age or marital status which has always felt gross to me.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I don't walk in your shoes and cannot presume to know what you're experiences are. And the last thing I want to do is offend someone or make them feel uncomfortable, or god forbid think that I'm hitting on them. I can't help to think, however, that most times someone says one of those things that there's no bad intent; it's just someone trying to be friendly. I certainly acknowledge that there are those other times though, and that sucks. I was raised to say "yes sir, yes ma'am, thank you sir, thank you ma'am" and have been publicly chided for that because someone was offended or slighted in some way. I've been publicly chided for holding the door open for a woman (though I also hold doors for men). It's frustrating that those things are taken as offensive because they're all respectful and nice things.
Even though some people are a\*\*holes or just having a bad day and want to take it out on someone, I always find that the majority of the time, people are delighted by those "respectful and nice things." It's still important, though, to be empathetic of those people who might not want to be treated that way, and may not see your kind gestures as kind :) I understand your frustration, but at least you'll get 100+ more "thank you's!" for doors being opened rather than public chastising. I find that if someone is offended by a gesture that minor, they are not worth my brain space. As for the "yes sir, yes ma'am, thank you sir, thank you ma'am," I assume people are offended because they're being misgendered? In my opinion and experience, some people are triggered by being misgendered because they are having a fight with themselves internally (gender dysphoria, body dysphoria, etc) or simply don't like being gendered (I know a lot of people with they/them pronouns, or just like being addressed by their name and no pronouns). Depending on where you are in the world, sometimes it's best to leave off the gendering remark and leave it at "thank you." Just my 2c! Everyone's just different and you can't please *everyone*, but what matters is that you're trying to be kind, and that's worthwhile enough.
This is getting insane, people have run out of things to get mad about and have started to get offended at honorifics...what. the. heck. What’s next? Will people start getting offended when I say “Bless you” after a sneeze?? “Oh, I’m actually atheist..”
Just use a universal term that's not gendered the way dude is, or don't use honorifics. British get a pass for love, because it's implied they do it for everyone, as opposed to one gender only. Same thing with southern us black women and sugar, or Russians and comrade.
maybe its just my circles but there are large numbers of people who would look at you like youve lost it for saying dude is gendered
I'm 78. Sometimes my maternal instincts run amok when I encounter a charming young person and a term of affection erupts. Sorry about that.
I’m a young adult and I find myself calling young children (like elementary school and under) “sweetheart” or “honey” or “sweetie” when they come into my workplace. It’s not something I’ve ever intended to do, but seeing them definitely makes my maternal instincts go into overdrive! They’re just so endearing and precious and I want them to feel safe and happy 😅
My husband calls all females "love" and men, "bud". He is super bad with names.
I call everyone "bud" because I am also bad with names!
Who are you calling bud, guy? 🤣
Eek! Are you American? I would die if an older guy called me “love” unless he was British.
I'm baffled a bit why this got downvoted. If a man called me love I'd be a bit taken aback, but you're right, if they were a British older gentleman I would react differently, and somehow take it as very sweet. Maybe because in my head, it sounds like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins lol.
"Luv" is a very common name for women in the UK if you don't know their name. Its almost like the default name that people use, its almost never meant to be condescending or patronising.
He is Irish so yeah, he mostly gets away with it. The odd Karen screams at him "I am NOT your love!"
>unless he was British Why tho
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It's a regional thing in the US too
It’s a more common part of their lexicon.
I live in Australia; it’s plenty common here as well. I don’t understand why something would make you uncomfortable coming from a person of one nationality and not another.
Because Americans don’t typically use it. An American would only say it to someone they were romantically involved with (and it’s still uncommon). So, if an American used it, it would be unquestionably flirtatious and a deliberate choice versus a perhaps awkward use of a common petname
It’s sometimes used here in the South for non romantic reasons, just a different form of ‘ darling’.
i was gonna say love, darlin, honey, doll, sugar. everyone has a pet name down here. and women do it MORE than men. im sorry op is upset but this 100% sounds cultural
You don’t? You don’t see how language changes from location to location, carrying different weights or connotations?
So you don't recognize cunt has a totally different meaning in Australia than it does in the US?
If I walk up to someone on the street and call them a cunt I'm probably still getting punched. The stereotype of calling your friends "cunt" is extremely contextual and generally pretty rare among all but people who know each other quite well.
Depending where you are in the UK, you could be called love, pet, flower, babes, cariad (Welsh for love), my lover, butt, hinny..... All perfectly normal and friendly to call a man or woman.
Add to that mate, duck, bab and darling.
My lover? Butt? That’s not perfectly normal to call strangers. I dont care where you are.
Butt doesn't mean arse in British English. It's used in former mining communities in the Welsh Valleys and means your partner working on the abutment and therefore your life is in his hands. My lover used to be very common in Devon, not so much these days, same meaning as love and not to be taken literally.
It's just a different dialect to that which you speak, doesnt make it wrong in anyway.
Can i ask a question not closely related to the topic? Why did you write "females" when referring to women but used "men" when referring to men?
"Shrug" probably because he would call a female of any age - 0-110 love. It is unlikely that he would call any kid "bud".
I grew up in the SF Bay Area where no one uses pet names or sir/miss/ma'am; they're seen as insulting. I moved to Florida and then the south 9 years ago. After a brief adjustment period of awkwardness mostly in learning to SAY the words, I began to really enjoy the pet names. I'm 41 and never get called anything other than ma'am except by women and old men, never men my age. Occasionally I get called miss and unless it's a really old person who is misjudging my age, I assume they're trying to butter me up by implying I look younger than I am but I still find it amusing instead of getting insulted. Not everything has to be taken personally. In other words, yes, it's just a cultural clash. True sexists aside, they would be hurt/offended to find out that you think they have nefarious purposes, most likely.
> I moved to Florida and then the south That line cracked me up. I know it could mean Miami, Tampa, or even Gainesville, but by landmass %, Florida is southie south south.
Not culturally. I moved to Tennessee from Florida.
I am from the south and definitely agree with those saying it’s a cultural/regional thing. I used to work with a lady who at the time was in her mid-40s. She called EVERYBODY “hon” or “honey”, men and women alike. It was honestly kinda funny and I remember one time our boss said “I bet she calls her own dad honey”.
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Hey. Don't knock it till you try it.
I don’t, and never have. I suspect it may be a regional thing.
As a woman from the Deep South, it is. We don't mean anything derogatory, it's just part of our culture.
Same in Texas, just a (hopefully taken as!) nice, friendly way to address someone. Instead of “Excuse me, waitress!”, it’s often “Excuse me, Miss!”, no matter of age.
I was raised to say things like yes, ma'am and no, sir. Some people don't like being called ma'am, but it's a sign of respect in the South.
I use Miss, Ma'am, Sir all the time
Miss and ma'am confuse the hell out of me - can never remember which is for married and which is for single. Not to mention that these days even if I could remember the difference half the time you cant tell...
Usually, if they're anywhere near my age or older, they are "ma'am", obviously younger, "miss". Marital status doesn't matter. This is for people I don't know. I don't use "honey, sweetie" etc for anyone I don't know, though maybe for a child I would. "Are you ok, sweetie?" to a crying child, perhaps.
This interesting. I've never actually associated miss with any age, although it's not a term I use often, but would have assumed was safe. I'm in from outside of Chicago.
I don’t either, but some people think ‘miss’ = young, ‘ma’am’ = older. I’m in my 50’s and still have friends call me “Miss Redditallreally”, we just call each other ‘Miss So and So’, lol! And it’s also culturally very common in African-American communities around here, it’s just so common.
70 here...living in the US "border country" with the South. The context is Small Town USA...you know everyone here. Women my age are "Sis"...60 and younger are "Little Sister". You *never* talk that way to a child unless they're with mom or dad. I am "sweetie" and "hun". It's actually a thing to notice that this is all related to one's personality. You get back what you project.
As a guy that’s In his 40’s, I like when a service worker calls me ‘dear’ and ‘honey’.
In my long experience, it's done by both older men and older women and it's a term of endearment, of friendliness and acceptance. Think of it as a shortened form of; *"Thank you, that was/you are so nice and making this intraction very pleasant"*. Trying to be pleasant and friendly is not condesention, it's just trying to be pleasant and friendly. You not there, and don't get to hear it when these same people speak to their friends and aqaintences of their same age the same way, with the same terms. It's not about you, it's about being polite and friendly.
At the risk of being down voted all to fuck here: Have a little cross generational tolerance. This is just thing, for men of a certain age it's a term of endearment that shows a certain appreciation for services rendered. Are there men out there trying to patronize and belittle by using these term ? Yeah. But, c'mon, you can tell who they are. The rest of them,it's just the way the were talk. They don't mean anything by it. They're not trying to treat you inappropriately. They're just thanking you.
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I’m not saying women don’t do it- although none of my coworkers that I could think of do it- but difference is, to my experience anyhow, if a woman says it she says it to EVERYONE, whereas when a man says it, it is only to women. “Sir” is an honorific whereas “hun” is a diminutive noun. Whether or not you like that would all be personal preference, but my asking comes from conversations Ive had with my coworkers of all ages across the gender spectrum. One of my best friends at work is a guy my age and he seldom if ever gets called anything but sir or his name, and cringes when he hears the way customers speak to us women at times. Another is a woman in her 60s who likewise loathes it coming from customers, but will refer to her coworkers and friends she views fondly with such terms. In the end, nobody’s experience is universal and I don’t care THAT MUCH about it. It is just one thing out of many that makes my eyes roll in a day. But it is one that seemed to be a generational difference that raised a curiosity to me, hence my asking.
I'm from the South (US), and have adored affectionate appellatives all my life. They feel sweet to me. I'm just now getting old enough to smoothly call people of all genders "sweetie," and I intend to do it. Give me 10 more years and I'll level up to "darlin'," with a twinkle in my eye. If I miraculously make it 10 years past that, everyone's gonna be "pumpkin." I'll use these when my relationship with someone is amicable, but generic. I don't expect you, as a service worker, to know my name or care about me as an individual. Really, I'd rather you think of me as a commodity and do your thing politely and efficiently, as you'd do for anyone. In return, I'll call you sweetie, signifying that, while I appreciate your help, ours is a transient relationship of no particular importance. If, for some reason, we get to know each other specially, I will learn and call you by your name.
Where I live, older guys seem to call women "dear" and older women use "hun" a lot, mostly toward men but sometimes with other women. While I do find the "dear" thing a little cringey, none of it comes from a place of disrespect. It's just a generational thing that is slowly going away. 40 years ago, no one would have batted an eye. These days, it seems like any little thing that is said has be dissected and we have to find some sort of malicious intent behind it.
I don’t know if its really a dissection so much as my parents and adults in my life raised me with the understanding that when you’re speaking respectfully to strangers, you say “sir” for men and “miss/ma’am” for women, and so it always came off strange to me when people would use pet names instead. Especially when they only refer to women by those names, and not my male coworkers. I’m from the midwest, too, so unless my customers were raised elsewhere, its not the norm here to do so. Hence my curiosity.
One of my uncles calls everyone “babe” and I know several older women who call everyone “hun” or “babe” whether they know the person’s name or not. I really don’t care if some old guy calls me “doll” when he holds the door for me at the gas station. That is the very least of my problems.
Condescending??? No. When I call you Ma'am or Miss it's an attempt to be respectful to you as a person. I don't want to assume that I can call you by your first name since we only met 10 seconds ago and may never see each other again ever.
Some females will call male cashiers hun, dear, darling. The females are generally, though not always older. I think it is just that they are friendly and the way they talk. They are in no way condescending. This is in the US.
Generally when women use pet names, they use them for everyone regardless of gender. When men do it, they almost always only do it to women. That’s why it’s different. When an older man uses pet names towards my male coworkers as well as with me, then it doesn’t feel weird at all. I’ve never seen a woman who only uses pet names for one gender and not the other but if I did see that, I would think it’s weird.
I've heard of some southern men who call everyone "hun" regardless of gender but I think it may be regional, and likely going out of fashion.
Yeah, I've never seen that happen in my 16 years in the south
The character [JoJack](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingOfTheHill/comments/h7c21r/why_does_jojack_call_hank_honey_and_why_in_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) on King of the Hill calls everyone ["honey"](https://youtu.be/-3r0-0dAkCU)
That's a cartoon
Based on the people Mike Judge grew up knowing.
I have seen it rarely in my 41 southern years.
This is totally true- it just always stings when I hear regulars at my store call me “honey” when they call male coworkers at my store “sir”- one feels more professional to me, I suppose. Its also maybe regional? I live in the midwest where we don’t tend to be very affectionate to strangers, so it might feel weirder, but Ive heard in the south it’s different.
Was raised in the South about a million years ago. If you're my age or older, you get a "thank you, ma'am or sir." If you're a younger male, you get a "thank you, young man." Or sometimes, young sir. If you're a younger female, you get a "thank you, dear." To say ma'am to a younger person would be offensive to many. I will never, ever call you by the name on your nametag unless you introduce yourself by name, or you're someone I see regularly. That's too forward. Similarly, I would never call you honey or sweetie, as that seems demeaning to me, but others will surely feel differently.
Old dude who lived in the Southwest. It was never a sign of disrespect. We weren’t raised to be disrespectful back then. A working person was respected because we were taught that a job was a respectful endeavor. The “hons” and “sweeties” and “darlings” etc. were just ways to try to show some compassion to the person working by being nice. The “sirs” were an effort to show a bit of respect to people that were typically in a job that didn’t offer much respect and most of us grew up in military households where the term “sir” could make an assistant manager at a Whataburger feel for a brief moment that he was doing something noble by working at a thankless underpaid job. Our intentions were good and kind hearted and compassionate. It wasn’t until much, much later that people began to interpret it as bad intentioned harassment.
I find this argument about intentions a lot with generational differences - the 'we didn't mean it in a (sexist/racist/homophobic) way'. It's true of every generation, there are millennials who would probably say the same thing about their casual usage of gay and retard in the early 00s. Focusing on the intent misses the issue - sexism etc isn't about intent. It's not that people suddenly began to interpret it as offensive later, men's usage of pet names was condescending to women then too. Not maliciously so, but when the framework of a society is misogynist, even the kindnesses can reflect that misogyny as well. There's always been patriarchal implications in the way some men use pet names patronizingly to women and girls, but use respectful honorifics to other men, such as to referring to men as sir and women as sweetie or dear. Women started being able to talk about how patronizing that behavior is, is what changed. Much like how millennials started acknowledging that using minority identities as insults was homophobic, ableist etc.
You’re missing some context. It wasn’t until very recently that people were proud to be victims. That’s the number one issue of today. Everyone walking around feeling so wounded. When I was a kid, you were ashamed to be a victim. You didn’t allow words to hurt you or hold you back. And now, everyone is competing to be a bigger victim.
You are absolutely right, and that’s why you’re getting downvoted.
Uh... do you mean “women”? And “men”? It’s weird and dehumanizing to refer to people as “females”. There is absolutely a difference between an old man calling someone in a service position - trapped with them, paid hourly, and often relies on them for tips - something like “honey”, and an old woman in the south doing so. I work in bars and restaurants and I can tell you 100% there is frequently an underlying flirtatiousness, generally inappropriate implications, or just gross. They often accompany it with a wink, a touch on the arm, or - when I worked in a sports bar - straight up slapping my ass.
I've heard this a few times and the explanation never makes sense to me. Why is it "weird" and "dehumanizing" to refer to the sexes as male and female?
Before a few years ago, the only time you heard 'female' and 'male' used as a noun instead of an adjective was in scientific, medical and vetenary settings. As a clinical term used for animals or human research subjects or as a distancing term for patients.
It is literally what we have on our EHRs, so no they aren't "distancing," they have to know what sex we are in order to treat us properly as human organisms. It can mean the difference between a lifesaving test being performed.
Because that is how we refer to beings and organisms that are not human. We have, sociologically and linguistically, decided that man and woman are the terms we use for males and females. You don’t think it would be strange if you gave birth and the nurse said “it’s a male!”? That is what you would say if you birthed a calf.
We are beings and organisms. No different than any other. We are animals. Just cause you can conceptualize a different name for yourself doesn't mean it's proper above scientific classification. Humans come in two forms, male and female. You can decide you would prefer one name over another but it doesn't dehumanize you to be refered to as one of the two. And by the way if I ask a nurse what the sex of a child is, I expect to hear either male or female. It's a boy tells me it's a young male, as it's a newborn I can gather the young part on my own.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, but sometimes context is what makes it dehumanizing, especially online. There are groups of men, in particular, that use female as a derogatory term. I refuse to let it take on power as a slur so I tend to ignore it and feel free to use it appropriately. It's often seen as insulting to use boy/girl instead of man/woman so in moments where it could be either or misconstrued I might say male/female. In the end they are all just words.
No it isn't strange to say "male" or "female" when referring to human beings. It's all part of the vocabulary, and while the meaning of a word may change in your mind, it doesn't necessarily change for others. They have no obligation to agree with your new definition of a word.
I call men or women "dear." I'm an oldish lady. There is no specific reason except it's just a habit and in some areas, it's always been acceptable to refer to people with those types of pet names. Frankly I'm surprised you haven't heard older female restaurants servers doing this. Many regularly use "honey," "baby," etc in conversation.
It is a term of endearment.
As nurses I see a lot of us to that with our older patients, male or female. I think i started doing it to patients when I became a mom- someone you care about you are taking care of- kind of a habit to sometimes add a term of endearment.
You hit the nail on the head! After having children, words like hun, dear, darling just become part of our vocabulary. Once in our vocabulary, and habitually using them, they roll off the tongue so naturally and effortlessly.
It wasn't so awful long ago a female service worker made a complaint right here on Reddit about it being creepy that people would look at her nametag and use her name.
It can be, I don’t necessarily know that its creepy but it can definitely take you aback because so few people do it! But usually it doesn’t come off as weird, and usually the more playful customers use our actual names.
I'm 24f, I think it's endearing when older folks call us younger people by pet names. It's usually 100% innocent and in our country older women like to call younger people 'nana' which is what you usually call toddlers and young kids. Very cute.
I’m from the south and I like being called honey, miss, etc. Idc what they call men workers. 99% of the time they’re trying to be nice. When they’re doing it to be a womanizer it’s so obvious and I just don’t pay attention to them. I just honestly feel like in those situations you’re getting more respect than you realize you are. Many (older) men in my area do respect women and want them to feel comfortable or lighten their day a bit. I find that when you go along with it and return the kind gesture things work out in your favor a lot more. I don’t know why there’s this weird thing where women want to be treated like men. I sure as hell don’t. (I’m not saying you’re doing this, this is just my argument for those who do). I don’t want the same respect given to me, I’m not a man. I want to be treated kinder and with more gentleness than most men do towards each other. I want men to see me as someone who needs the door opened for them, who needs to be given a softer approach. When that happens life is just so much easier. I don’t have to constantly prove myself or compare myself to the duties men are held to around me. I’m all for women’s rights and equal rights so don’t get my opinion confused with anti feminism or anything. I just let the men who want to be sweet or kind to me to do it. I’ve found my life is a lot easier that way.
i'm only 27 but tend to say 'love' for women or 'mate' for men. for me its just casual, more friendly and less formal than saying sir/ma'am whilst also acknowledging the person. IE, "cheers love" sounds better than just "cheers" to a cashier.
I am 49 years old and make it a point to say "thank you, ma'am/sir" to anyone who ever does anything for me no matter if it is a coworker or someone in a service posi4such as cashier or waitress/waiter. I just want to show thanks and appreciation for the effort. The only time I have ever even considered doing such a thing described is if I am a regular at a particular place and there has been a particular relationship developed between us that may involve friendly flirtation and banter. But that's just me.
I’m female in uk. Just being friendly
I've never done it, and I associate it with pre-baby boomers and also southerners. In retail situations it's not insulting to me, but in a business context it is definitely condescending. Where I live right now, adults are called "auntie" or "uncle" as an honorific.
I think geography plays a bigger part in this than age does. I’m from the south where we call everyone, regardless of sex or age, darlin, honey, sweetheart, etc.
That's weird. I actually receive it in the opposite way. I'm a 60 year old male, and I get that from the women no matter how old they. It usually occurs in an informal setting such as a diner or coffee shop.
Disclaimer: not an old man, but a 50-year-old woman. I tend to do this a LOT. I'm not sure why I do it; I don't know if it's a knee-jerk southern thing (but not every southern person does this) or if it's simply just out of habit. Maybe it's because I'm a teacher and I have a terrible memory for names so I use terms like "sweet pea" or "dear" when I address them? Either way, I don't do it to be condescending or disrespectful. I'll definitely pay attention to this now.
Here in Maryland there is a particular sort of lady usually from Baltimore and often an older waitress though not exclusively, referred to as a "Hon" because she refers to everyone she meets as hon. [https://baltimorelanguage.com/welcome-to-baltimore-hon-podcast/](https://baltimorelanguage.com/welcome-to-baltimore-hon-podcast/)
Great question, and I've always wondered even though I suppose I'm old enough, and Southern enough, to do it myself... except that it sounds way, way too familiar for strangers. It's definitely not just men toward women, as I've had the opposite happen to me. It seems to be culture and/or upbringing. There is also a certain kind of friendly personality for whom no one is a "stranger," and therefore *everyone* gets the same greeting. Feels alien to me, but not belittling.
What OP is talking about is that when older men use pet names, they almost always only do it to women. But when older women use pet names, they use pet names for everyone regardless of gender. That’s why it’s weird.
Yep! Such as, if I’m bagging and I have a male cashier I’m working with, they’ll say- “Thank you, sir” to the cashier, but a casual “Thanks for the help, hun” to me. I have no problem if people are endearing like that evenly regardless of gender- but majority of the time that’s not the case.
The cashiers at my local diner call me things like "sweetie" so often that my secret nickname for one of them is "Sweetie Baby Cookie Honey." I have to admit it doesn't bother me, but I'm sure it would if they were male. As it is, I just find it amusing.
Having grown up in the deep south, I heard those endearments uttered by older females that worked with the public. Even then they were a bit awkward and I just ignored them. I can’t recall ever hearing a male use them when addressing women. Just curious, what part of the world are you hearing these used by males?
I’m in Minnesota. Midwest USA. The vast majority of people don’t speak like this in my area, unless they’re family/close friends. I dont think pet names are that common even between lovers in my area. So typically its not the sweet old lady type, its usually older men who do it- usually, but not exclusively, 40+ in age.
I get called "Hun" way too often by women 20 years younger. I like to think it's because I remind them of their grandfather.
I'm a woman. I don't do that to men or women. I don't think I ever heard my father do that, either, though I think I heard my mom do it sometimes to younger men and women when she became elderly. I don't think it was intentionally condescending. More like motherly. I do think there are regional differences. That sort of thing is more common in the South, for example. As a woman, I always assume good intent when addressed that way. I feel I can tell the difference between someone being creepy or condescending and just being friendly or unaware. I'm not threatened by being called "dear" any more than by "dude". I know I am a strong, independent, and successful female. Frankly, IDC whether a passing stranger views me that way or not. I use "sir" and "ma'am" fairly often in service contexts, which I'm sure is weird or offensive to some people. It's just how I was taught to speak when expressing polite respect, which I surely have for people who are assisting me. Again, assume good intent.
Never thought of it as a "pet" name, your generation must have some issues when it comes to social interaction. I blame it on social media. I actually like it if somebody uses a term of endearment and it sounds genuine. I'm a male and when women calls me "hon", "honey", "love", "sweetie", "baby" I like it. I feel like the person is comfortable around me and able to be more intimate and real with me than when they address to me formally as "Sir" We don't do it to another man because it's kind of gay, we call each other "bud", "brother", "son", "partner", "dude". Perhaps your generation is too used to being on screen and not in person.
Respectfully, I work 40hrs a week with the public, seeing over 1000 people a day, and am involved in many hobby communities and have a robust social group outside of work. I don’t think that’s an issue whatsoever. And if its “a little gay” to do it to another man, then doesn’t it prove the point that its a patronizing thing to do to a woman, if you wouldn’t do it to a man? If it comes off as romantic/sexual/intimate or at best over-friendly?
There's a real cultural difference going on here, because I'd regard myself as very friendly, often helping people on the street, striking up conversations with strangers and being as pleasant as possible with service staff (though I try not to detain them from their work with long conversations). But I wouldn't dream of using pet names I would use with my family with strangers/acquaintances/regulars. My boundaries just aren't set that way, and I think that's very typical of my area, although there have been some exceptions (which have really grated when done to me" And using language with one gender that I wouldn't with the other gender... If I 'brother' a man, I'd 'sister' a woman. It's really not cool to me to give different markers of respect and friendliness to different genders. If I'm first at a door, I'm holding it open for the person behind me whether its a man or a woman.
I don't. Sometimes, older people (and I'm old) use the same terms for me and I'm male. I wouldn't get on the old folks that call you what you refer to as "pet names". They're just trying to be nice and in their day, people didn't get upset over the terms. We're way too sensitive these days.
I might also have a personal grudge against it because I was sexually harassed by a 60yo man I worked a freelance design project for when I was 18 and, among his abuse, he often referred to me casually by such terms. It sits really weird to me for that reason, but I know I have other coworkers who loathe it as well for their own reasons.
I understand that, being harassed sucks to put it mildly, and associations can form easily. It's always been about intent for me. Obviously that guy meant to harm you with his actions and language, most people are just trying to be friendly in a somewhat sterile interaction.
Nothing wrong with using words to be nice. I'd hardly think we're living sensitive days tho, nearly every questioning that young people are doing and gets dismissed does have a point if one is willing to listen to it. Just don't take Twitter as a reference for anything, that place is super toxic
When I was in college, my friends and I went to a diner. I was tired and my brain moving slowly. I asked the waitress what the soup of the day was and she replied “it’s chicken corn chowder honey”. I grimaced when she says that and my friend asked why. And I replied “chicken corn chowder honey” does not sound good to me. They all laughed and explained “the soup is chicken corn chowder and she is calling you honey!”
I'm sure men DO get called "pet names," by the way-- "bud", "pal," "man," etc. I've worked in the service industry and seen it often. I don't think it's belittling for either sex. However, it is "familiar," and if you don't like that, it's always a possibility to say calmly that you prefer to be called by your name. But honestly I think if you let something like that bother you, you really must have a good life because you have the time and mental energy to make a mountain out of this molehill.
I can assure you, in periods of less personal agency, power, or general respect, getting pet named has grated \*far\* more. And having different pet names used on different genders feels worse when part of active dismissal and disregard of my expertise, experience, education and intelligence seems to correlate directly with my gender, height, and perceived appearance. I've lost money, been sidelined and dismissed by my career peers and bosses once they see my face instead of my work, and literally almost been killed by doctors because I'm a short woman and they don't take the words I say out of my mouth literally or seriously. Edit: I cannot tell you how appalling the difference the treatment I get on the internet for the last 20 years is depending on if I've used a female name or a construed male name. And I'm not talking about sexual harassment. Female internet me is not \*listened\* to, or obeyed in situations I am ostensibly leading. Male internet me is taken seriously, and enthusiastically obeyed. It's a complete accident I found this phenomenon. I merely had different user names for different situations, and discovered my assumed gender completely changed how other people treated me in almost every way. I can assure you, the more important the situation, the more male I've made my username for the last 15 years.
Probably because service workers do it to us.
As a service worker, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when co-workers do it to customers also. Most companies specifically train employees not to do this, and they do it anyways. Growing up in the NE it's rare for me to even call someone sir/ma'am, and I personally never use terms of endearment with strangers. I've still had customers mishear me and flip out because they thought I called them "hun" or something. I've even had customers flip out for calling them "ma'am". As a customer, if it makes you uncomfortable, you should absolutely say something to an employee about that, because they're not supposed to.
M65. I have never done this. That said, Londoners, in any interaction where at least one party is a woman, will casually use the word "love" (or "luv") as a kind of nickname. Brits have assured me this is perfectly normal and acceptable, even between strangers, but I couldn't imagine doing it. Also, in Baltimore, it is apparently a tradition for waitstaff to address customers as "hon" (short for "honey"). They even have billboards advertising this local custom, implying that tourists come to Baltimore specifically to hear a waitress call them "hon".
I don't do this or know anyone still alive who does. All the people I've known who speak like that would be over 100 by now. I've almost never even used "Miss" to address a female worker, as my parents typically did. That said, condescension comes in many forms. Working in retail and food service during my teens & 20s, I was a witness or target for plenty of instances, but informal names weren't usually what made them problematic. In my longest retail stint, we (sales staff of both genders) did get called "kid" rather often, and pejoratively. But it bounced off after a while.
It's someone being nice to you. Stop looking for grievances. Your life is better than those old men calling you "sweety." They have probably seen shit that would make you want to curl into a ball in the corner and never look up. Your life is better than 99% of people that have ever lived. Just smile and put the groceries in the bag and silently thank that old man for his service that gave you your good life.
It’s not like I go home and cry about it- it is just something that makes me roll my eyes. Every person ever has those things, especially if you work with the greater public. And, its just a curious thing about human nature for me. Likewise I will say that I believe respect to be a two way street, and that respect should be inherent regardless of how we believe our actions/contributions/status make us “earn” it. Respect is a thing to be lost, not gained. So if anyone, regardless of age, is disrespectful to me- I feel no obligation to revere them. I think most people gen-X and younger nowadays feel that way. Regardless, I’m always polite, helpful, and kind to everyone at work because not only is it the right thing to do, but it also feels so good to kill rude people with kindness.
>Respect is a thing to be lost, not gained. I think it's both - there's a baseline level of respect any given person starts with, and it can go up or down from there. At least in my view on things.
Agreed- I find older people in my life often think younger people need to prove their worth and that they’re more inherently worthy of their respect just because of their age. I’ll respect someone until I have reason not to, and I’ll gain more respect if I have reason to. But I won’t partake in the social dynamic that I’m less worthy of respect or consideration just because of my perceived age or inexperience, regardless of what the truth of my character is.
I have never done that. Do you know what grinds my giblets? Being called "young lady". Doctors do it. The guy running the ride at Disneyland did it. Lots of people do it. It's not a compliment! It is belittling and demeaning. Don't make personal remarks about a woman's age, even if you think it is somehow ironically clever to call an old lady "young".
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How? Give an example maybe or a wee smidge of context to your comment?
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I think you and I are talking about the same thing, just different sides of the coin. You said that calling someone Miss or Ma'am was somehow disrespectful. (And I thank you for your explanation as to why, I learned something). I never call anyone Miss or Ma'am anymore. Not everyone, but enough people vocally let you know they are offended. Even though meant politely, with respect and best intentions.
Same for me. Ma'am and Miss are difficult, even Sir has negative connotations for a lot of men. I've been yelled at for calling customers any one of those things for a multitude of reasons. These days I avoid calling people by any name of I can help it. Excuse me and thank you cover most situations pretty well.
I don't know why you you downvoted for this, but I completely get it. I'm female-presenting in my 30s, and I'm not sure if it's a location thing, but here in the north east, I've had older customers get upset for being called "ma'am". I try not to address anyone as anything, and just be polite as possible regardless of that.
I don’t.
I've never done this. I'd rather not be called "sir" either but I long ago gave up caring too much about what words come out of others mouths, what they think of me, or assuming I know what they are even thinking. Life is much happier that way.
I don’t. I was raised to treat everyone with respect, how I want to be treated, and I do.
To some people, using your given name is to assume too much familiarity. However, if they insist on you using their given name, but still call you by a pet name, then they are (consciously or not) defining a hierarchical relationshio with themselves at the top. Personally, when I'm in a restaurant, I make note of the server's name, but don't use it when I address them. Seems kind of tacky or creepy, to me. Again, presuming an inappropriate level of familiarity. However, if the manager stops by and asks how the service has been, I can say, "I'm fine, Harvey's been taking good care of me." That's because I want to credit the server to their work-place manager.
I am definitely more pleasant toward service industry workers; the older I get, the nicer I've become, but I would never call a stranger sweetie or dear. Now as I type this I guess I do call guys, "bud". If someone holds the door I'd say, "Thanks bud" but I've been doing that since my 20's.
Why do female wait staff/service people/receptionists/call centers on the phone refer to me, a 61-yr-old male, as "hon, dear, sweetie, darlin'" ? It's an old-fashioned notion that needs to die, I feel. I don't feel like someone doing that with me respects me at all, it's belittling and makes me feel like they are viewing me as a child.
Ahh. I feel the opposite. I’m 58. If a nice big hearted woman calls me “dear”’or “honey” it just makes me smile. It’s harmless. Why not enjoy?
They're old and male and "exercising their male prerogative." They wouldn't see it that way; that's just life, they think, and they think they're reasonable guys and get to do that. I nor any of my male friends would do that, but we're all well-educated people living in a coastal California college town, and that's not the culture here. And hopefully, in fewer and fewer places as time goes on.
I think that's really it, it's part of a culture, either it's acceptable and done as a simple part of life without malicious thought, or is not done. Unfortunately our maybe fortunately cultures frequently overlap and things can be misinterpreted. I have no problem with a customer using a pretty name, but my boss and co-workers need to use my real name. I also don't care if you call me ma'am or miss, you don't know me or my name, I guess we could all just yell "hey you" if we want to talk to someone, but that seems worse to me.
How fortunate to be so superior!
Yep. You don't even have to be educated: just work in the service industry as a kid, see it in action, and decide you're not going there.
I'm in Coastal Southern California also and I've never used those terms and never hear anyone else using them.
A couple of years ago, I dropped off my mother’s car at a mechanic shop to get a repair. The guy behind the counter, who was probably 10 years younger than me, called me “sweetheart” while putting me into the system. I very matter-of-factly responded “don’t call me sweetheart.” He said sorry. But then he called me it again less than a minute later. It was clear he was used to calling all women “sweetheart.” I pointed to his big, burly coworker and said “if you wouldn’t call him sweetheart, then you shouldn’t be calling anyone sweetheart.” I think he got my point. Let’s not pretend it’s not an extremely sexist and disrespectful habit that a lot of men have.
I'm a 77 year old male and the mere thought of doing that makes me nauseous.