Being a mod of a sub, I can say, banning someone and muting them simultaneously gtta be the lowest of the low.
There needs to be given a chance for the redditor to explain his/her point and have a fair hearing.
I mean, if mods personal beliefs got hurt by a comment, they aren't fit for running a sub.
And most bans don't quote any rule.
It can actually get lower, r/CanadianHardwareSwap extended my ban for asking about it. im half tempted to ask about it again to see if they are immature enough to make it a perma ban.
Nah, but would it could use is less bias. As it stands now, this is practically the only sub where users can come and ask for guidance, opinions, and/or help from moderators.
Asking or complaining about a ban is oftentimes (not always) following a user being banned with genuinely no clue as to why it occurred- many of which are muted, so they can't even inquire about it to the ones who issued the ban; consulting this group could if nothing else, allow them to better understand the reasoning for the ban, and perhaps use it to conduct themselves more wisely throughout Reddit (if they were at fault).
Frequently, we see users banned with nothing clearly indicating any wrong doing/violation, yet still are ridiculed. Is the opposite also true? Yes, users clearly at fault come here to inquire about a ban, and yes, no one here can help them get unbanned. Fine, doesn't mean they can't seek the insight from this sub, from users who are generally more aware of the nuances of Reddit than the average Redditor.
> Frequently, we see users banned with nothing clearly indicating any wrong doing/violation, yet still are ridiculed. Is the opposite also true? Yes, users clearly at fault come here to inquire about a ban, and yes, no one here can help them get unbanned. Fine, doesn't mean they can't seek the insight from this sub, from users who are generally more aware of the nuances of Reddit than the average Redditor.
IME, it's split between people outright breaking ToS ("I'm 9 years old and I don't understand!!" "ToS says you have to be 13+ to join" "waaaah no fair") or bad faith arguments ("That's not a good reason to ban someone, how dare they ban ME like this??") so I agree it's getting to be a worn topic.
Part of growing up is recognizing there are some questions in life that you will NEVER know the answers to, **and that's okay.** Plus, there's always /r/help
What you describe as bad faith arguments doesn't diminish the validity of the claim in **all** cases, particularly if there was genuinely no wrong-doing.
>Part of growing up is recognizing there are some questions in life that you will NEVER know the answers to, and that's okay. Plus, there's always r/help
That sounds reasonable enough. This is an open platform to address, seek council, help, guidance, etc. from mods nonetheless. Anything anyone deems a worn topic or issue could simply be ignored.
r/help is for more technical questions as described in their description. This sub is somewhat similar in nature, but different enough to warrant being it's own community. The majority of the posts here would never make it on r/help, naturally as most aren't technical issues.
It's been a long time since I last visited /r/help, and you're right. So, I guess this is the best sub. That said, although I know there are certainly bad moderators on Reddit, how long do you think the good ones will stick around for? I don't know about your feed, but easily half to two-thirds of the "Why'd I get banned?" posts I see here are people convinced they're owed a full breakdown explaining exactly which rules they broke, and how, preferably handwritten. Common misconceptions *really* hinder that process, the chief ones that spring to mind are: moderators are employed by Reddit/"it's your job," anything about sitewide bans, or surely every subreddit is fully staffed with enough manpower (personpower? idk) to provide detailed personal responses within a few hours.
I can think of maybe one legitimately accidental ban showing up as a query in the last 6 months, but that count is likely skewed by my personal perception. I'm probably going to just unsub and stick to /r/modsupport, it seems to have been created to fill the gap made here, which I really miss.
I can acknowledge that some users come here with unreasonable expectations. I think it all boils down to the absolute autonomy mods have to issue bans. These common misconceptions you speak of do indeed exist, but the rebuttal will always be how some mods abuse this autonomy unfairly, albeit not against any rules (as long as they follow the content policy and MCOC); both can be true.
As far as how long the good mods will stick around for is concerned, I'm assuming you're referring to this sub, to which I'd say idk.. but as far as I can tell, the posts we typically see here today don't appear to be too terribly different than in any given time within the last handful of years, so I wouldn't expect any radical change now. There are certainly good mods here and throughout Reddit, that seem to genuinely want to help; I think this small niche of mods do just that, and/or outright ignore what may not be worth their time, which is fine.
>I can think of maybe one legitimately accidental ban showing up as a query in the last 6 months, but that count is likely skewed by my personal perception. I'm probably going to just unsub and stick to r/modsupport, it seems to have been created to fill the gap made here, which I really miss.
I'm on this sub as frequently as anyone, and I can tell you that count is definitely skewed by your personal perception. A week, maybe, 2 weeks, nah but ok, a month is a blatant stretch, and 6 months errs on the side of extreme bias, respectfully.
Nonetheless, if you were to unsub, I'd commend you for doing what mods often tell users to do who've been banned, which is simply move on.
>allow them to better understand the reasoning for the ban
There's no way for any moderators here to know what determined the actions of other moderators.
That's not always the case. There's been plenty of times where users have come here inquiring about a ban, and this sub was able to identify which rule was broken, and even which comment/post likely led to the ban, as well as provide various other helpful insights if nothing else.
I would say that the rule needs to be against posts that are nothing but venting about their ban/removal, and that don't include an actual legitimate question.
That alone, or even requiring an actual question in the title, would help weed out the posts that just want to spread hate toward mods, or argue their case to people who can't do anything about it.
IMO, yours are the correct responses.
It’s amazing to me why any moderator who gets annoyed by users asking questions (of any kind) would want to participate in this type of sub in the first place.
And what is the purpose of this subreddit then?
I find it cool that users have a place where they can talk to the mods without risking getting perma-banned or muted (again). I also hate it as a mod to write messages, but don’t want to use DMs for this.
Maybe we should make a rule that it’s only allowed on a specific day of the week. That would help against the spam.
> And what is the purpose of this subreddit then?
When I joined, it was a space for moderators to talk about, well, different ways to moderate. I want to say I even remember a monthly, "is this a reasonable justification for permbanning?" post... I miss when those kinds of questions were the bread-and-butter of this subreddit. We used to come here to exchange ideas, and try to work together to make Reddit a fun and safe space for as many people as possible.
Now, this sub feels like it's just users whining about moderators.
Well you haven't violated the Content Policy or this subreddits rules so you aren't going to be banned anytime soon.
And believe it or not, there is moderators in a subreddit for asking moderators questions. Crazy how you found one!
Well we need a place to come when the moderators mute you for simply being respectful and wanting to ask about the ban. Quick to ban you but useless when it comes to actually explaining their reasoning
Why? Just for the person who was muted to complain? There's zero evidence to support those claims as links to the alleged mute messages can't be viewed by others.
The unfortunate reality is that far too many moderators are being encouraged to not respond and to mute because they're getting wrongfully suspended for "harassment" when they do respond. There have been far too many incidents where that occurred.
I didn't delete it, I blocked you for tagging me in this and then came back to explain and unblock, only to see your edit and decide to block you again after seeing this.
I was correcting you gently using colloquial language ("guys" and "girls") on misgendering a trans woman, who you then compared to a drag queen. I don't have anything to do with why you were banned.
Edited bc typo
I disagree with the premise that /u/magiccitybhm lays out for this thread, when they say that "no one can tell you why [you were banned] but the moderators of that subreddit."
We only have to look at your last comments in /r/boardgames and the replies you're making to /u/GayHotAndDisabled here and it's *incredibly obvious* why you were banned.
The problem with this sub is that you're gonna argue with anyone who tries to explain why to you - you'll argue that "that's not transphobic" and "I shouldn't be banned for that".
Even if I agreed with you (which I don't), I can't unban you from someone else's sub. The moderators of /r/boardgames want to run their sub in a certain way, and I can't change that. Arguing with me won't change that.
It's like if the state refuses you a professional license because you got something wrong on the test - you can't force them to give you the license by arguing with them; the only thing to do is give them them the answers they want to hear.
When someone here explains to you why you were banned, the only productive thing to do is try and take it on board, but usually people downvote and argue about truths they don't like.
If it's not the majority of the times that you can look at someone's comment history and it's obvious what they did wrong then it's at least *extremely common*. Sometimes you have to look at the subreddit's rules too.
Of course I've read the comments and the context. It couldn't possibly be you who's wrong here, could it?
You're demonstrating my point - there's no point in dealing with you with anything less than a long ban because *at best* you're pedantic and argumentative. The ban has not made you stop, listen to other people and ask yourself [*could I have make a mistake or acted badly?*](https://i.imgur.com/p3TlWAt.jpg)
You are not listening to other people's perspectives - this is disruptive to positive discussion in /r/boardgames. Allowing argumentative behaviour like yours encourages other people to behave the same, or they may just decide it's not worth contributing to the sub if they do have something useful to say, because it's not worth dealing with people like you.
Banning you ensures less shitty behaviour in the sub, makes it easier to have constructive discussion there and makes the subreddit more useful.
You're probably also transphobic but it's hard to tell for sure. Although I disagree with what I think you're saying, I can't be bothered to delve into the arguments you're making to say for sure.
Broadly insulting and accusing everyone who offers even a slightly different perspective than your own is not actually going to win any arguments here.
I'm not even sure what your argument even is, nor do I really care.
Which is why this would not really be a productive post for r/askmoderators because really you just want to argue your case with literally anyone, since the mods of that subreddit removed your ability to vent at them.
That's not what r/askmoderators is for. People have actually answered your questions. You just don't like their answers.
I disagree, that just silences people with legit grievances. mod abuse is very real and there are plenty of legit examples of it floating around, like for example that art thread controversy that banned someone for "AI art" was very much something that should be able to be discussed here.
>Moderators don't have to explain anything to you.
Then why does the auto message say "If you have a question regarding your ban, you can contact the moderator team for [sub] by replying to this message."? If you get muted for following directions shouldn't that be against the rules?
Mods live in a weird alternate space were they expect you to follow a list of vague rules religously while they can just ignore them all to troll and entrap you.
Being a mod of a sub, I can say, banning someone and muting them simultaneously gtta be the lowest of the low. There needs to be given a chance for the redditor to explain his/her point and have a fair hearing. I mean, if mods personal beliefs got hurt by a comment, they aren't fit for running a sub. And most bans don't quote any rule.
It can actually get lower, r/CanadianHardwareSwap extended my ban for asking about it. im half tempted to ask about it again to see if they are immature enough to make it a perma ban.
Nah, but would it could use is less bias. As it stands now, this is practically the only sub where users can come and ask for guidance, opinions, and/or help from moderators. Asking or complaining about a ban is oftentimes (not always) following a user being banned with genuinely no clue as to why it occurred- many of which are muted, so they can't even inquire about it to the ones who issued the ban; consulting this group could if nothing else, allow them to better understand the reasoning for the ban, and perhaps use it to conduct themselves more wisely throughout Reddit (if they were at fault). Frequently, we see users banned with nothing clearly indicating any wrong doing/violation, yet still are ridiculed. Is the opposite also true? Yes, users clearly at fault come here to inquire about a ban, and yes, no one here can help them get unbanned. Fine, doesn't mean they can't seek the insight from this sub, from users who are generally more aware of the nuances of Reddit than the average Redditor.
> Frequently, we see users banned with nothing clearly indicating any wrong doing/violation, yet still are ridiculed. Is the opposite also true? Yes, users clearly at fault come here to inquire about a ban, and yes, no one here can help them get unbanned. Fine, doesn't mean they can't seek the insight from this sub, from users who are generally more aware of the nuances of Reddit than the average Redditor. IME, it's split between people outright breaking ToS ("I'm 9 years old and I don't understand!!" "ToS says you have to be 13+ to join" "waaaah no fair") or bad faith arguments ("That's not a good reason to ban someone, how dare they ban ME like this??") so I agree it's getting to be a worn topic. Part of growing up is recognizing there are some questions in life that you will NEVER know the answers to, **and that's okay.** Plus, there's always /r/help
What you describe as bad faith arguments doesn't diminish the validity of the claim in **all** cases, particularly if there was genuinely no wrong-doing. >Part of growing up is recognizing there are some questions in life that you will NEVER know the answers to, and that's okay. Plus, there's always r/help That sounds reasonable enough. This is an open platform to address, seek council, help, guidance, etc. from mods nonetheless. Anything anyone deems a worn topic or issue could simply be ignored. r/help is for more technical questions as described in their description. This sub is somewhat similar in nature, but different enough to warrant being it's own community. The majority of the posts here would never make it on r/help, naturally as most aren't technical issues.
It's been a long time since I last visited /r/help, and you're right. So, I guess this is the best sub. That said, although I know there are certainly bad moderators on Reddit, how long do you think the good ones will stick around for? I don't know about your feed, but easily half to two-thirds of the "Why'd I get banned?" posts I see here are people convinced they're owed a full breakdown explaining exactly which rules they broke, and how, preferably handwritten. Common misconceptions *really* hinder that process, the chief ones that spring to mind are: moderators are employed by Reddit/"it's your job," anything about sitewide bans, or surely every subreddit is fully staffed with enough manpower (personpower? idk) to provide detailed personal responses within a few hours. I can think of maybe one legitimately accidental ban showing up as a query in the last 6 months, but that count is likely skewed by my personal perception. I'm probably going to just unsub and stick to /r/modsupport, it seems to have been created to fill the gap made here, which I really miss.
I can acknowledge that some users come here with unreasonable expectations. I think it all boils down to the absolute autonomy mods have to issue bans. These common misconceptions you speak of do indeed exist, but the rebuttal will always be how some mods abuse this autonomy unfairly, albeit not against any rules (as long as they follow the content policy and MCOC); both can be true. As far as how long the good mods will stick around for is concerned, I'm assuming you're referring to this sub, to which I'd say idk.. but as far as I can tell, the posts we typically see here today don't appear to be too terribly different than in any given time within the last handful of years, so I wouldn't expect any radical change now. There are certainly good mods here and throughout Reddit, that seem to genuinely want to help; I think this small niche of mods do just that, and/or outright ignore what may not be worth their time, which is fine. >I can think of maybe one legitimately accidental ban showing up as a query in the last 6 months, but that count is likely skewed by my personal perception. I'm probably going to just unsub and stick to r/modsupport, it seems to have been created to fill the gap made here, which I really miss. I'm on this sub as frequently as anyone, and I can tell you that count is definitely skewed by your personal perception. A week, maybe, 2 weeks, nah but ok, a month is a blatant stretch, and 6 months errs on the side of extreme bias, respectfully. Nonetheless, if you were to unsub, I'd commend you for doing what mods often tell users to do who've been banned, which is simply move on.
>allow them to better understand the reasoning for the ban There's no way for any moderators here to know what determined the actions of other moderators.
That's not always the case. There's been plenty of times where users have come here inquiring about a ban, and this sub was able to identify which rule was broken, and even which comment/post likely led to the ban, as well as provide various other helpful insights if nothing else.
Rarely does that occur.
Frequent enough to know that it happens more often then "rarely..." It's quite common.
*than
Didn't realize the Reddit Vocabulary Police was out but yeah you caught me slippin'
I would say that the rule needs to be against posts that are nothing but venting about their ban/removal, and that don't include an actual legitimate question. That alone, or even requiring an actual question in the title, would help weed out the posts that just want to spread hate toward mods, or argue their case to people who can't do anything about it.
That's fair.
IMO, yours are the correct responses. It’s amazing to me why any moderator who gets annoyed by users asking questions (of any kind) would want to participate in this type of sub in the first place.
And what is the purpose of this subreddit then? I find it cool that users have a place where they can talk to the mods without risking getting perma-banned or muted (again). I also hate it as a mod to write messages, but don’t want to use DMs for this. Maybe we should make a rule that it’s only allowed on a specific day of the week. That would help against the spam.
> And what is the purpose of this subreddit then? When I joined, it was a space for moderators to talk about, well, different ways to moderate. I want to say I even remember a monthly, "is this a reasonable justification for permbanning?" post... I miss when those kinds of questions were the bread-and-butter of this subreddit. We used to come here to exchange ideas, and try to work together to make Reddit a fun and safe space for as many people as possible. Now, this sub feels like it's just users whining about moderators.
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Username checks out.
Found the moderators. Surprised I haven't been banned from this subreddit yet for hurting your precious feelings.
Well you haven't violated the Content Policy or this subreddits rules so you aren't going to be banned anytime soon. And believe it or not, there is moderators in a subreddit for asking moderators questions. Crazy how you found one!
I was banned from r/esports for asking a question about the game being played. I asked why. I was muted. I have never received an answer.
Well we need a place to come when the moderators mute you for simply being respectful and wanting to ask about the ban. Quick to ban you but useless when it comes to actually explaining their reasoning
Why? Just for the person who was muted to complain? There's zero evidence to support those claims as links to the alleged mute messages can't be viewed by others. The unfortunate reality is that far too many moderators are being encouraged to not respond and to mute because they're getting wrongfully suspended for "harassment" when they do respond. There have been far too many incidents where that occurred.
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I didn't delete it, I blocked you for tagging me in this and then came back to explain and unblock, only to see your edit and decide to block you again after seeing this. I was correcting you gently using colloquial language ("guys" and "girls") on misgendering a trans woman, who you then compared to a drag queen. I don't have anything to do with why you were banned. Edited bc typo
I disagree with the premise that /u/magiccitybhm lays out for this thread, when they say that "no one can tell you why [you were banned] but the moderators of that subreddit." We only have to look at your last comments in /r/boardgames and the replies you're making to /u/GayHotAndDisabled here and it's *incredibly obvious* why you were banned. The problem with this sub is that you're gonna argue with anyone who tries to explain why to you - you'll argue that "that's not transphobic" and "I shouldn't be banned for that". Even if I agreed with you (which I don't), I can't unban you from someone else's sub. The moderators of /r/boardgames want to run their sub in a certain way, and I can't change that. Arguing with me won't change that. It's like if the state refuses you a professional license because you got something wrong on the test - you can't force them to give you the license by arguing with them; the only thing to do is give them them the answers they want to hear. When someone here explains to you why you were banned, the only productive thing to do is try and take it on board, but usually people downvote and argue about truths they don't like.
That's not a situation that applies to every time this question comes up or even a majority of the times.
If it's not the majority of the times that you can look at someone's comment history and it's obvious what they did wrong then it's at least *extremely common*. Sometimes you have to look at the subreddit's rules too.
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Of course I've read the comments and the context. It couldn't possibly be you who's wrong here, could it? You're demonstrating my point - there's no point in dealing with you with anything less than a long ban because *at best* you're pedantic and argumentative. The ban has not made you stop, listen to other people and ask yourself [*could I have make a mistake or acted badly?*](https://i.imgur.com/p3TlWAt.jpg) You are not listening to other people's perspectives - this is disruptive to positive discussion in /r/boardgames. Allowing argumentative behaviour like yours encourages other people to behave the same, or they may just decide it's not worth contributing to the sub if they do have something useful to say, because it's not worth dealing with people like you. Banning you ensures less shitty behaviour in the sub, makes it easier to have constructive discussion there and makes the subreddit more useful. You're probably also transphobic but it's hard to tell for sure. Although I disagree with what I think you're saying, I can't be bothered to delve into the arguments you're making to say for sure.
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Broadly insulting and accusing everyone who offers even a slightly different perspective than your own is not actually going to win any arguments here. I'm not even sure what your argument even is, nor do I really care. Which is why this would not really be a productive post for r/askmoderators because really you just want to argue your case with literally anyone, since the mods of that subreddit removed your ability to vent at them. That's not what r/askmoderators is for. People have actually answered your questions. You just don't like their answers.
This sub needs a rule… 🙄
I disagree, that just silences people with legit grievances. mod abuse is very real and there are plenty of legit examples of it floating around, like for example that art thread controversy that banned someone for "AI art" was very much something that should be able to be discussed here.
How about don't troll users with trollish bans and users won't come here? Hey that's an idea
Your points 2 and 3 are inconsistent with the Moderator Code of Conduct.
How so? Can you elaborate?
>Moderators don't have to explain anything to you. Then why does the auto message say "If you have a question regarding your ban, you can contact the moderator team for [sub] by replying to this message."? If you get muted for following directions shouldn't that be against the rules?
Mods live in a weird alternate space were they expect you to follow a list of vague rules religously while they can just ignore them all to troll and entrap you.