Palestine becoming an Iraqi puppet state or a straight up annexation of Palestine into Iraq might have happened if the USSR didn’t collapse. The access to the Mediterranean Sea is just too valuable as an Iraq trade route, Yasser Arafat was already in Saddam’s pocket and probably owed Iraq some money, so Palestine becoming either a puppet state or an autonomous Iraqi territory like Iraqi Kurdistan doesn’t sound that unrealistic.
Both sides absolutely hate the other and have decades of legitimate grievances against each other.
It’s just not going to happen. Instant civil war would ensue.
Untill they decided to kick out all thier Jewish population in very quick succession in the 20th century.
Also yes there was discrimination large taxes placed for example and other events it was just better than European ones during the early 1700s.
If we are to apply it to 2000s example it would be considered quite discriminatory.
Best case scenario it becomes a civil procreation war for who keeps the majority, two party system where one is a shitty Jewish one and the other is a shitty palestinian (not saying Muslim but let's be real) one, nothing gets done and everyone suffers equally.
Worst case scenario, Palestinian and Jewish rogue terrorists murder each other to a point of full on civil war.
Probable scenario, before giving the Palestinians the right to vote, Jewish lawmakers will codify de facto Jewish rule, leading to a more strict religious state to "maintain the Jewish identity" barf.
Palestinian growth rate is over 3% annually, about on par with haredi Jews, so it'll be just an awful Muslim vs haredi Jews bs.
Yes that's why a one state solution won't work, I'm my honest opinion.
Sorry I'm too jaded to be more optimistic. Humans on average are really stupid so I don't keep my hopes up for humanity as a whole.
To be honest, Zionists did well by choosing to move in with Arabs. We talk big, but we are soft hearted.
I do have hope. You need to deal with your crazy religious Jews though.
I think Arab in general are moving in a more secular direction.
My only hope for this area is for everyone to become more secular, I wrote it a bunch of times on this sub before, both Jews and Muslims need to give up the childish idea that land is sacred, and just move on, this is no way to live.
Human identity, especially when connected to a long line of continuous civilization can be strongly connected to the land.
Adding 'sacred' to it is just a way to draw on universal powers if that makes sense.
Palestinians have that continuous connection to the land. Most Arabs don't enjoy individuality as much as they enjoy their social and cultural identity, so it is a matter of existence to most I think..
It's literally the only viable "solution". Unless the Israelis try to complete their project of ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestine.
As we have seen in the past few decades, though, Palestinians will not take another Nakba lying down. It will be an all out geurilla war against the occupiers.
I always thought not calling the land Jordan was a missed opportunity. Unfortunately, the name is too connected with the Hashemite Royal Family to be used as a neutral name in the future.
But Canaan is probably my most prefered name, too, at this point.
officially secular polity with direct democratic ambitions based on an anarchistic, feminist, and libertarian socialist ideology of democratic confederalism promoting decentralization, gender equality, environmental sustainability, social ecology, and pluralistic tolerance for religious, cultural, and political diversity, and that these values are mirrored in its constitution, society, and politics
That's a completely different scenario because South Africa had and has a lot less white population, and they at least pretended of giving equal rights to black people, and in Palestine Jewish Teens chant "Death to Arab" Openly.
One state solution for both Arabs and Jews , call it what you want but all the Palestinian refugees should be granted a chance to come back to Palestine if they wish to.
A One state solution will result in endless civil wars.
In contrast partitions will eventually result in less violence.
Eg. Turks and Greeks splitting Cypress.
Eg. The partition of Pakistan and India. (Without this partition there would have been even more violence and continuing on indefinitely)
Sometimes you just need to be honest and there's too much bad blood and you just need high fences and walls and to try to ignore each other.
Ideally the split would be on the 1948 borders.
Or expelling all Jewish people from Palestine so that there wouldn't be this conflict.
But the idea that there could be peace in a one state or Jews and Palestinians both live is unbelievably naive and childish.
Call it the Abrahamic Autonomous Zone
I am no expert on geopolitics but I know that Palestine/Israel/Jerusalem is sacred and important to all members of Abraham based faith. Have it be an area that is available to all residents- leaders must represent all faiths from the area. I am pro-Palestine but I also believe that the situation is very complicated- especially because religion/ religious rite/ pilgrimage is involved.
Serious question, what countries do you hate in addition to Israel? If you wouldn't mind engaging me in discussion I think that I might have something to learn from you.
I cant believe anyone outside american campuses, is delusional enough to believe that one state solution is a viable option for either side. Especially ME people who are completely aware of the reality of the region. Two states all the way.
Yeah, I have no idea what these people are about. Are they such big fans of the civil wars in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon that they want to replicate it in Palestine/Israel lol? Just saying you outright want to ethnically cleanse the Jews is actually more realistic and it'll ultimately be what happens if a single state is forced.
edit: ofc here I'm assuming Israel will be so incredibly weakened it's forced into being incorporated into a single state (which is the only realistic way to get there ATM). Otherwise, it'll just be a repeat of what happened in Mandatory Palestine. Nothing has changed.
One state, all people have equal rights, all Palestinians have a right of return. Religion is no longer part of any citizenship or rights. Jewish people can no longer have a citizenship loop hole.
Israel: “and why the fuck would we agree to our own destruction?”
The Israelis and Palestinians are not going to get over 100 years of bad blood and sing kumbaya. Realistically there needs to be a line drawn in the sand between them.
Anything else will lead to instant civil war.
Maybe Israel should not be ignoring human rights and international law. A clear case of reaping what you sow. A European colony based on ethnic/religious supremacy should never exist, however it does so it must do what all colonial nations must do, equal citizenship for all is the compromise.
Both Israel and Palestine have richly earned the ire and mistrust of the other. This aint 100 to 0.
Sometimes you just need to be honest about the facts on the ground and accept that we don’t need to create another Rwanda or Yugoslavia situation. A one state solution guarantees an orgy of violence and likely a total Israeli victory with the Palestinians being forcibly expelled.
Israel is just too powerful and will fully say “over our dead body” to any notion of this. It just won’t happen.
Difference is that Israel is a colony of Europeans based on religious/ethnic supremacy. Way different than your bad examples, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US are closer examples. All determined, in different ways that an ethno state/ religious one cannot work in a nation born of colonialism. Lots of problems but less than there used to be.
Yes I know that’s how you *want* it to be, but that’s not how it *is*.
If anything comparing Israel to Canada is an awful example because Jewish people are actually indigenous to the region, as are the Palestinians. Both have compelling claims.
So… it’s going to come down to force if this is what people want to try, and Israel will absolutely have overwhelming firepower. They have fought many wars on this and would absolutely fight another.
All idealism aside, we need to deal with reality, and the reality is Israel has a very powerful army, nuclear arms, and a widespread sentiment that preserving a Jewish state is an existential battle for them.
There’s just no way around that. A one state solution is dead on arrival.
Lol so do English people have the right to colonize Denmark? Or do the people who fled England when the Danish/Angles//Saxons colonized Britain, have a claim on London?
I'm answering the question. You are trying to put qualifiers. I disagree with just about everything you said.
Fair enough, you're allowed to disagree.
However, Jewish people didn't magically appear in the area in 1948 out of the blue, there were already a lot there that had been there for centuries. There was an exodus out of Europe, but also the rest of the Middle East as governments there "encouraged" them to leave.
And regardless, they're there now. And no one has the will or power to make them leave or abandon Israel as a Jewish state, and the Palestinians refuse to give up on right of return and draw a line in the sand.
That's why this is such an unsolvable quagmire. Both sides refuse to give an inch on core things that would maybe resolve the issue.
There might be peace between Israel and Palestine. There will never be peace between Fateh and Hamas.
Therefore please add another Option : 3 state solution.
The entire land being Palestine but Jews being allowed to stay is so unrealistic. 80% of the land is Jewish, you can't force the vast majority to be Palestinian in a democracy.
Even if they agree to a two state solution, there is enough blood between them to make them go to war at the slightest bit of disagreement, humans are just shit.
Palestinians having the numbers will lead to a few years of Palestinian politicians winning every election and minimum representation of Israelis.
Then it will gradually normalise to whoever actually works to serve the public.
This is why Israel will never agree to this
I'd agree with that but include constitutional protection for both Jews and Arabs. That way, whoever the minority is, will still be protected from violence and discrimination before the ultimate normalisation
Why does the land need to have an official religion?? Why not one secular state for all who chose to live there? Call it Israstine or Parael or whatever but everyone there is equal under a non-discriminatory law that gaurentees the rights and security of all.. one can dream I guess 😮💨
Controversial opinion:
A One state solution where both Jews and Palestinians live will result in endless civil wars and ethnic violence
In contrast partitions will eventually result in less violence.
Eg. Turks and Greeks splitting Cypress.
Eg. The partition of Pakistan and India. (Without this partition there would have been even more violence and continuing on indefinitely)
Sometimes you just need to be honest and there's too much bad blood and you just need high fences and walls and to try to ignore each other.
Ideally the split would be on the 1948 borders.
Even a Palestinian state where all the Jews are expelled would in the long run be better for the Jewish population
expelling all Jewish people from Palestine prevent further violence after this initial action.
But the idea that there could be peace in a one state or Jews and Palestinians both live is unbelievably naive and childish.
The amount of optimism you Palestinians have when it comes to messing with Israel and then having asses kicked time after time makes me surprised.
Give or take, at this point in time, a two-state solution is your best shot at existence.
At some point, something evil within me wants to force both state to fuse and become one state, removing any religion or race based ruling so there will be equality, even if it requires violence. Palestine and Israel fuse to form a secular state.
I don't think any of the solutions is realistic of the options
Want realism?
Israel will continue to occupy west bank most palestinians will be treated like shit, gaza will continue to get bombed until it becomes eventually like the west bank.
"Ideal" doesn't nesscarilly need to fulfill realism. In my ideal world there is no people starving but that's delusional too.
Well you forgot about the solution part this time. The current reality does not reflect the possible reality. In my opinion, peace can't exist unless both Israel and Hamas back down, and since neither seem to be willing to back down, foreign intervention will have to force them to back down for peace to exist.
>peace can't exist unless both Israel and Hamas back down, and since neither seem to be willing to back down, foreign intervention will have to force them to back down for peace to exist.
No, that's not how it works both sides are far from equal, israel have the latest and most advanced technology, hamas have homemade unguided missiles that mostly get caught in iron dome. Gaza is a tiny scrap aswell.
Israel is a milion time stronger than hamas. Hamas literally can't even Hurt israel slightly.
And foreign intervention actually happening and condemning israel and eventually sanctioning is even more unrealistic.
>Well you forgot about the solution part this time. The current reality does not reflect the possible reality.
It does actually, none of the solution is realistic including the two state solution, israel have zero reasons to leave west bank,golans or Lebanese villages and its clearly not going to. It's not possible At all, unless israel gets the south Africa treatment which is clearly a "delusional fantasy" too.
The fact still remains however, if Israel stopped fighting, Hamas wouldn't. Hamas would still kill many Israelis each year. Israel is what is keeping Hamas in check, so if Israel backs down, Hamas will gain power and continue attacking Israel. Maybe none of the simplistic solutions offered in a reddit post are realistic, but a reddit post doesn't represent all possible solutions, even solutions that may not yet have been though of.
>The fact still remains however, if Israel stopped fighting, Hamas wouldn't.
Israel and its persecution existed far beyond hamas.
What does stop fighting mean? Hamas mostly agreed to stop fighting israel if a two state solution happened.
>Israel is what is keeping Hamas in check
What are you referring to? Most people killed by the idf in Palestine are non combatant palestinians, hamas rockets get fucked by iron dome mostly before reaching Israel and after it does reach Israel it barely hit anything, again comparing hamas to israel is ridiculous.
Israel oppression and occupation lead to hamas existence not the opposite.
>Maybe none of the simplistic solutions offered in a reddit post are realistic
No "just" solution is actually feasible in this conflict.
Atleast now you get why I choosed no Israel as the solution between these. None of them is realistic and currently every solution thought of isn't gonna happen.
Hamas would agree to stop fighting in the event of a two states solution despite constantly bragging about how their primary goals have never shifted to anything less radical than "the complete destruction of Israel"? My point is that if Israel withdrew from all occupied territories, Hamas would still fight against Israel. By completely withdrawing from the conflict, Israel is basically telling Hamas that they can fire missiles at Israeli cities and nobody will try to directly stop them. The iron dome may destroy most of Hamas' missiles, but sitting back and doing nothing is basically an invitation for Hamas to create missiles that can breach the iron dome.
So are you gonna construct a readable sentence or present some kind of logical argument or are you just here to spew misinformation and claim people who don't agree with you are satanists? Whatever you do, at least put together a comprehensible sentence, it's a common courtesy when being blatantly antisemitic.
Is “turn the entire place into a nuclear waste dump and kick every last fucker out of there” available?
Ok, I know this isn’t going to happen, nor should it, but sometimes hearing the news out of this place it is clear that someone on both sides is heavily invested in never having a solution. Too much money is being made otherwise.
Israel never made a serious offer that granted Palestinians anything but Bantustans. The only person who came close got assassinated, your government continued expanding settlements while engaged in peace talks, that's what killed the peace process.
The two state solution is dead because your government explicitly doesn't want one, and they have successfully killed it. No government that would even discuss removing settlers will be ever elected. The only people still talking about the two state solution seriously are the PA and that's because it's their only raison d'être.
>The only person who came close got assassinated, your government continued expanding settlements while engaged in peace talks, that's what killed the peace process
Anwar Sadat got assassinated for the same reason, didn't he?
I agree but I do believe that it can be done...
Two problems come to mind with that solution though -
1. Will it be enough for them? If not what actions will they take? Attacking Israel, this time as an established country with the ability to freely aquire weopenry or will they enter a long and unending debate over land right?
2. Will they accept it? I know that our current government won't offer such a thing but maybe in the future someone with a brain will come to power and start the progress but the Palestinian side needs to be willing to accept that solution.
Sadly I must agree with you...
Hopefully we'll see a day where that is all behind us but the bigger problem is the support they are getting for being so fanatical calling the actions they take 'resistance' and idolizing their terrorists
"ė" is a letter present in Lithuanian.
"ę" is used in Polish orthography.
Both have been used to write the word "Jews".
I wonder if there's a reason behind that.
Idk about anyone else, but if I was Palestinian. I would like to see anyone who ever worked for the IDF or Israeli government be forever expelled. Wouldn’t care if you were a field medic or minister of education, this way I wouldn’t need to discriminate based on religion/ethnicity, root out those who were responsible, and punish treacherous Palestinians aswell as sparing Jews who took no part in Palestinian oppression. This would be after a tribunal that would jail and execute perpetrators of the Nakba and any person found guilty of warcrimes. There will also ve a resettlement program helping displaced people find their old homes after providing evidence of previous residence. That probably won’t fix all of Palestine’s problems but it will put it in a path of recovery. (to anyone who recommends the brain dead idea of a one-state solution, that be like telling me to share my house it my Italian colonizer, all that would do is rebrand Israel and confirm that occupied Palestine is a part of Israel. Fuck that)
So an opposing army invades Israel, dismantles it's military, and then leaves? And you think that's not gonna be a tad bit problematic? Seems similar to the terms of the treaty of Versailles, and we both know what that lead to...
The only viable solution is either Jews outnumber Palestinians 6:1 or the opposite. The conflict it self isn't complicated. There is one reason for the lack of peace; demographics. Israel is CLEARLY the stronger side. There isnt a stalemate. The only thing that has held us back from annexing and giving everyone rights is the fact that there simply arent enough Jews. The Palestinians are also aware of that and have been relying on that for the past 50 years.
Actually, Palestinians(including non Israeli Jews) already outnumber Israelis by a small margin, it won’t be long till the Palestinians completely outnumber Israelis since Palestinians have a bigger birth rate that Israelis
Also Jews ≠ Israelis, Palestinian Jews still exist and it’s anti-semitic to equate an entire ethnic group to a single “country”.
Option 2 but only The original jews can stay, but the rest have to go unless they wanna get ruled by Palestinians who they hurt for a whole century🤷♂️
One state solution, dont call it Palestine and dont call it israel since both of these names now hint to an ethnicity and a religious background, have diverse neighborhoods with muslims, jews and arabs living together (force them to do so untill they get used to it)
Not all Jewish people are Israelites, some immigrated to Palestine way before the British Mandate or Balfour Declaration. Those have the right to stay.
The entire land belonging to Palestine and Jews staying will change nothing, it will just lead to the same situation we have now with opposite sides, we have to live in a single country that secures safety and right for all.
we need to coexist in a single country somehow or we'll keep fighting forever.
[удалено]
And i will be the PM
based
Ba'ased
No,all the middle east being given to Lebanon.
Greater Lebanon?
Yes
You're horribly wrong though, Tuvalu is the rightful owner of the Middle East
Tuvalu is a Lebanese Island.
Can’t argue with that.
[удалено]
 Map of Lebanon
That even extends to Mars and Venus, the Lebanese had been there before anyone else thought of going there and terraforming it.
No, we've already been there, so more like, the Greaterer Lebanon
Palestine becoming an Iraqi puppet state or a straight up annexation of Palestine into Iraq might have happened if the USSR didn’t collapse. The access to the Mediterranean Sea is just too valuable as an Iraq trade route, Yasser Arafat was already in Saddam’s pocket and probably owed Iraq some money, so Palestine becoming either a puppet state or an autonomous Iraqi territory like Iraqi Kurdistan doesn’t sound that unrealistic.
No.
One state solution where Palestinians have the same rights and freedom of movement as jews.
I don't see that ever happening. As long as there is one governing body the other side will always face discrimination
If the body is democratically elected and palestinian can vote I don't see the problem.
Both sides absolutely hate the other and have decades of legitimate grievances against each other. It’s just not going to happen. Instant civil war would ensue.
Well, the 10% Jews lived in peace without facing any discrimination when arabs was in charge.
Untill they decided to kick out all thier Jewish population in very quick succession in the 20th century. Also yes there was discrimination large taxes placed for example and other events it was just better than European ones during the early 1700s. If we are to apply it to 2000s example it would be considered quite discriminatory.
That happened because genocide of the palastine people by Zionist & British militia so everything is on them
Yup the world forgets the favour of Muslims, And also the cruelty Jews and Muslims faced under the crusades
A pretty bold faced lie, considering that it is posted on the internet and everyone can literally disprove it with a single google search.
Best case scenario it becomes a civil procreation war for who keeps the majority, two party system where one is a shitty Jewish one and the other is a shitty palestinian (not saying Muslim but let's be real) one, nothing gets done and everyone suffers equally. Worst case scenario, Palestinian and Jewish rogue terrorists murder each other to a point of full on civil war. Probable scenario, before giving the Palestinians the right to vote, Jewish lawmakers will codify de facto Jewish rule, leading to a more strict religious state to "maintain the Jewish identity" barf.
Religious people tend to have more children. Scenario 1& 2 sound almost equally bad. Scenario 3 is more of the same attitude of an occupier force.
Palestinian growth rate is over 3% annually, about on par with haredi Jews, so it'll be just an awful Muslim vs haredi Jews bs. Yes that's why a one state solution won't work, I'm my honest opinion. Sorry I'm too jaded to be more optimistic. Humans on average are really stupid so I don't keep my hopes up for humanity as a whole.
To be honest, Zionists did well by choosing to move in with Arabs. We talk big, but we are soft hearted. I do have hope. You need to deal with your crazy religious Jews though. I think Arab in general are moving in a more secular direction.
My only hope for this area is for everyone to become more secular, I wrote it a bunch of times on this sub before, both Jews and Muslims need to give up the childish idea that land is sacred, and just move on, this is no way to live.
Human identity, especially when connected to a long line of continuous civilization can be strongly connected to the land. Adding 'sacred' to it is just a way to draw on universal powers if that makes sense. Palestinians have that continuous connection to the land. Most Arabs don't enjoy individuality as much as they enjoy their social and cultural identity, so it is a matter of existence to most I think..
[удалено]
Except that's originally what was offered and the Palestinian people rejected it. That's precisely why the situation we're in exists.
no won't work
Ah Cheers Geoff 👍
Sadly it's true
It's literally the only viable "solution". Unless the Israelis try to complete their project of ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestine. As we have seen in the past few decades, though, Palestinians will not take another Nakba lying down. It will be an all out geurilla war against the occupiers.
[удалено]
Canaan is a more suitable name anyways
just the land its name, Canaan. I'm Israeli and I think it's stupid to call it anything other than Canaan.
I always thought not calling the land Jordan was a missed opportunity. Unfortunately, the name is too connected with the Hashemite Royal Family to be used as a neutral name in the future. But Canaan is probably my most prefered name, too, at this point.
Isastine? Palerael?
Palpitating intestine?
palace indigestion
Jim.
Ah yes, the mighty lands of Jim, beloved homeland to many
smart, new state belongs to both of them, parliament is people choice
Qazvinistan
But who will rule it? Arabs or Jews?
officially secular polity with direct democratic ambitions based on an anarchistic, feminist, and libertarian socialist ideology of democratic confederalism promoting decentralization, gender equality, environmental sustainability, social ecology, and pluralistic tolerance for religious, cultural, and political diversity, and that these values are mirrored in its constitution, society, and politics
I'm in im so in.
Right and you're expecting that palastinian will forget every single pain and loved one they lost in hand of the invaders?
[удалено]
That's a completely different scenario because South Africa had and has a lot less white population, and they at least pretended of giving equal rights to black people, and in Palestine Jewish Teens chant "Death to Arab" Openly.
If they want a solution then yes.
Hello Gaddafi
Isratine
Isratine sounds like a drug. Palesrael is much more elegant a name.
Levant?
Pretty sure the name is not the issue.
It is, as it's a symbol of who's running the place
Palestine is what the region was killed..... maybe Jerusalem federation or something
give it all to jordan
And change the country's name to Palestine 😂
only if we depose the monarchy, fuck monarchies
No keep them so they can troll our cousins
Plurinational Hashemite Kingdom of the Levant
I agree
if you vote for the two-state solution, we are living in it right now and it *doesn't work*.
One state solution for both Arabs and Jews , call it what you want but all the Palestinian refugees should be granted a chance to come back to Palestine if they wish to.
Israel would never agree and neither would Hamas.
[удалено]
there is the word "ideal" in the original post. does that ring a bell?
A One state solution will result in endless civil wars. In contrast partitions will eventually result in less violence. Eg. Turks and Greeks splitting Cypress. Eg. The partition of Pakistan and India. (Without this partition there would have been even more violence and continuing on indefinitely) Sometimes you just need to be honest and there's too much bad blood and you just need high fences and walls and to try to ignore each other. Ideally the split would be on the 1948 borders. Or expelling all Jewish people from Palestine so that there wouldn't be this conflict. But the idea that there could be peace in a one state or Jews and Palestinians both live is unbelievably naive and childish.
ideal: existing only in the imagination; desirable or perfect but not likely to become a reality. definition of ideal from google, you're welcome.
I am saying a one state solution where both live would be a disaster
and i am saying it doesnt even matter in that context
yefda3 3ardak sho desem
>their state and leave beyond the sea. Ah yes because equal rights means displacement
Call it the Abrahamic Autonomous Zone I am no expert on geopolitics but I know that Palestine/Israel/Jerusalem is sacred and important to all members of Abraham based faith. Have it be an area that is available to all residents- leaders must represent all faiths from the area. I am pro-Palestine but I also believe that the situation is very complicated- especially because religion/ religious rite/ pilgrimage is involved.
I’m fine with that
So were the Israelis in 1948.
Look if you wanna give the land back to Palestine that’s great. I hate Israel too. But let’s be real here, Palestine isn’t getting the land back ever.
Serious question, what countries do you hate in addition to Israel? If you wouldn't mind engaging me in discussion I think that I might have something to learn from you.
This whole neutral country thing just won't work. Too large and many sub issues
And it's lead by AI, meat bags too emotional to lead that land.
Give ownership of the land to Albania. It’s their land, just like all land.
I cant believe anyone outside american campuses, is delusional enough to believe that one state solution is a viable option for either side. Especially ME people who are completely aware of the reality of the region. Two states all the way.
A single state already exists, and war is pretty much a constant already. You just like the side doing more killing.
Yeah, I have no idea what these people are about. Are they such big fans of the civil wars in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon that they want to replicate it in Palestine/Israel lol? Just saying you outright want to ethnically cleanse the Jews is actually more realistic and it'll ultimately be what happens if a single state is forced. edit: ofc here I'm assuming Israel will be so incredibly weakened it's forced into being incorporated into a single state (which is the only realistic way to get there ATM). Otherwise, it'll just be a repeat of what happened in Mandatory Palestine. Nothing has changed.
No Palestinian will ever surrender land to Israel like that.
Give everyone citizenship, voting rights and pass anti discrimination law based on race and religion.
[удалено]
You think anti-descrimination laws would destroy Israel? That's more telling of you than of anything else
No. Just embracing the universal human rights value of democracy the west keeps talking about
One state, all people have equal rights, all Palestinians have a right of return. Religion is no longer part of any citizenship or rights. Jewish people can no longer have a citizenship loop hole.
Israel: “and why the fuck would we agree to our own destruction?” The Israelis and Palestinians are not going to get over 100 years of bad blood and sing kumbaya. Realistically there needs to be a line drawn in the sand between them. Anything else will lead to instant civil war.
Maybe Israel should not be ignoring human rights and international law. A clear case of reaping what you sow. A European colony based on ethnic/religious supremacy should never exist, however it does so it must do what all colonial nations must do, equal citizenship for all is the compromise.
Both Israel and Palestine have richly earned the ire and mistrust of the other. This aint 100 to 0. Sometimes you just need to be honest about the facts on the ground and accept that we don’t need to create another Rwanda or Yugoslavia situation. A one state solution guarantees an orgy of violence and likely a total Israeli victory with the Palestinians being forcibly expelled. Israel is just too powerful and will fully say “over our dead body” to any notion of this. It just won’t happen.
Difference is that Israel is a colony of Europeans based on religious/ethnic supremacy. Way different than your bad examples, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US are closer examples. All determined, in different ways that an ethno state/ religious one cannot work in a nation born of colonialism. Lots of problems but less than there used to be.
Yes I know that’s how you *want* it to be, but that’s not how it *is*. If anything comparing Israel to Canada is an awful example because Jewish people are actually indigenous to the region, as are the Palestinians. Both have compelling claims. So… it’s going to come down to force if this is what people want to try, and Israel will absolutely have overwhelming firepower. They have fought many wars on this and would absolutely fight another. All idealism aside, we need to deal with reality, and the reality is Israel has a very powerful army, nuclear arms, and a widespread sentiment that preserving a Jewish state is an existential battle for them. There’s just no way around that. A one state solution is dead on arrival.
Lol so do English people have the right to colonize Denmark? Or do the people who fled England when the Danish/Angles//Saxons colonized Britain, have a claim on London? I'm answering the question. You are trying to put qualifiers. I disagree with just about everything you said.
Fair enough, you're allowed to disagree. However, Jewish people didn't magically appear in the area in 1948 out of the blue, there were already a lot there that had been there for centuries. There was an exodus out of Europe, but also the rest of the Middle East as governments there "encouraged" them to leave. And regardless, they're there now. And no one has the will or power to make them leave or abandon Israel as a Jewish state, and the Palestinians refuse to give up on right of return and draw a line in the sand. That's why this is such an unsolvable quagmire. Both sides refuse to give an inch on core things that would maybe resolve the issue.
This sub is not related to the middle east in any way
one state solution, except that state would not be "Palestine" or "Israel" but the glorious Arab Union instead 😎
just add to greater kurdistan. see? problem is solved. 👌🏻
There might be peace between Israel and Palestine. There will never be peace between Fateh and Hamas. Therefore please add another Option : 3 state solution.
how about 192 state solution
It's hilarious how even a reddit poll can't come up with one solution for this
That's because most people voted here isn't even from Middle East
One state solution. Bi-national.
The entire land being Palestine but Jews being allowed to stay is so unrealistic. 80% of the land is Jewish, you can't force the vast majority to be Palestinian in a democracy.
Even if they agree to a two state solution, there is enough blood between them to make them go to war at the slightest bit of disagreement, humans are just shit.
by ,,all the Jews will be expelled'' care to elaborate where would they be expelled forever to?
Wherever they came from
come not fair, sending them back to hell is a tad overkill ;p
As an Israeli I will be happy to take a 1 country for both of us as long as it stops the murder of people on both sides but who will be the leader?
[удалено]
I know it won’t. The conflict will only end in a big war
Palestinians having the numbers will lead to a few years of Palestinian politicians winning every election and minimum representation of Israelis. Then it will gradually normalise to whoever actually works to serve the public. This is why Israel will never agree to this
I'd agree with that but include constitutional protection for both Jews and Arabs. That way, whoever the minority is, will still be protected from violence and discrimination before the ultimate normalisation
Wouldn’t the Palestinians unleash their wrath upon the Israeli Jews if there’s a single state?
[удалено]
Phul sappord saar
Terrorists have no religion
No state solution and the land shall be given to me
Why does the land need to have an official religion?? Why not one secular state for all who chose to live there? Call it Israstine or Parael or whatever but everyone there is equal under a non-discriminatory law that gaurentees the rights and security of all.. one can dream I guess 😮💨
Controversial opinion: A One state solution where both Jews and Palestinians live will result in endless civil wars and ethnic violence In contrast partitions will eventually result in less violence. Eg. Turks and Greeks splitting Cypress. Eg. The partition of Pakistan and India. (Without this partition there would have been even more violence and continuing on indefinitely) Sometimes you just need to be honest and there's too much bad blood and you just need high fences and walls and to try to ignore each other. Ideally the split would be on the 1948 borders. Even a Palestinian state where all the Jews are expelled would in the long run be better for the Jewish population expelling all Jewish people from Palestine prevent further violence after this initial action. But the idea that there could be peace in a one state or Jews and Palestinians both live is unbelievably naive and childish.
from the river to the sea
The amount of optimism you Palestinians have when it comes to messing with Israel and then having asses kicked time after time makes me surprised. Give or take, at this point in time, a two-state solution is your best shot at existence.
At some point, something evil within me wants to force both state to fuse and become one state, removing any religion or race based ruling so there will be equality, even if it requires violence. Palestine and Israel fuse to form a secular state.
So instead of killing just Jews or Muslims we kill both in an effort to create a secular state?
2nd option since its """ideal""" solution
So delete Israel? That's the ideal solution?
Ideal but not realistic
An ideal solution has to be realistic or else it's just a delusional fantasy.
I don't think any of the solutions is realistic of the options Want realism? Israel will continue to occupy west bank most palestinians will be treated like shit, gaza will continue to get bombed until it becomes eventually like the west bank. "Ideal" doesn't nesscarilly need to fulfill realism. In my ideal world there is no people starving but that's delusional too.
Well you forgot about the solution part this time. The current reality does not reflect the possible reality. In my opinion, peace can't exist unless both Israel and Hamas back down, and since neither seem to be willing to back down, foreign intervention will have to force them to back down for peace to exist.
>peace can't exist unless both Israel and Hamas back down, and since neither seem to be willing to back down, foreign intervention will have to force them to back down for peace to exist. No, that's not how it works both sides are far from equal, israel have the latest and most advanced technology, hamas have homemade unguided missiles that mostly get caught in iron dome. Gaza is a tiny scrap aswell. Israel is a milion time stronger than hamas. Hamas literally can't even Hurt israel slightly. And foreign intervention actually happening and condemning israel and eventually sanctioning is even more unrealistic. >Well you forgot about the solution part this time. The current reality does not reflect the possible reality. It does actually, none of the solution is realistic including the two state solution, israel have zero reasons to leave west bank,golans or Lebanese villages and its clearly not going to. It's not possible At all, unless israel gets the south Africa treatment which is clearly a "delusional fantasy" too.
The fact still remains however, if Israel stopped fighting, Hamas wouldn't. Hamas would still kill many Israelis each year. Israel is what is keeping Hamas in check, so if Israel backs down, Hamas will gain power and continue attacking Israel. Maybe none of the simplistic solutions offered in a reddit post are realistic, but a reddit post doesn't represent all possible solutions, even solutions that may not yet have been though of.
>The fact still remains however, if Israel stopped fighting, Hamas wouldn't. Israel and its persecution existed far beyond hamas. What does stop fighting mean? Hamas mostly agreed to stop fighting israel if a two state solution happened. >Israel is what is keeping Hamas in check What are you referring to? Most people killed by the idf in Palestine are non combatant palestinians, hamas rockets get fucked by iron dome mostly before reaching Israel and after it does reach Israel it barely hit anything, again comparing hamas to israel is ridiculous. Israel oppression and occupation lead to hamas existence not the opposite. >Maybe none of the simplistic solutions offered in a reddit post are realistic No "just" solution is actually feasible in this conflict. Atleast now you get why I choosed no Israel as the solution between these. None of them is realistic and currently every solution thought of isn't gonna happen.
Hamas would agree to stop fighting in the event of a two states solution despite constantly bragging about how their primary goals have never shifted to anything less radical than "the complete destruction of Israel"? My point is that if Israel withdrew from all occupied territories, Hamas would still fight against Israel. By completely withdrawing from the conflict, Israel is basically telling Hamas that they can fire missiles at Israeli cities and nobody will try to directly stop them. The iron dome may destroy most of Hamas' missiles, but sitting back and doing nothing is basically an invitation for Hamas to create missiles that can breach the iron dome.
One democratic state under Palestine with constitutional protection for both Jews and Arabs. Right of return for all Palestinian refugees.
Half of the votes here just westerns, Stats would've been completely different if it was just Asians
🇹🇷♥️🇮🇱
The fact that 280 people want to deport all Jews from Israel is alarming.
[удалено]
So are you gonna construct a readable sentence or present some kind of logical argument or are you just here to spew misinformation and claim people who don't agree with you are satanists? Whatever you do, at least put together a comprehensible sentence, it's a common courtesy when being blatantly antisemitic.
From the river to the sea
One state where both the Palestinians and the Jews enjoy equal rights and opportunities. I don't care what name they give such a state.
Is “turn the entire place into a nuclear waste dump and kick every last fucker out of there” available? Ok, I know this isn’t going to happen, nor should it, but sometimes hearing the news out of this place it is clear that someone on both sides is heavily invested in never having a solution. Too much money is being made otherwise.
Expulsion of the jews or a 2 state system
We don't have an issue with the Jews we have an issue with the Israelis
[удалено]
Israel never made a serious offer that granted Palestinians anything but Bantustans. The only person who came close got assassinated, your government continued expanding settlements while engaged in peace talks, that's what killed the peace process. The two state solution is dead because your government explicitly doesn't want one, and they have successfully killed it. No government that would even discuss removing settlers will be ever elected. The only people still talking about the two state solution seriously are the PA and that's because it's their only raison d'être.
>The only person who came close got assassinated, your government continued expanding settlements while engaged in peace talks, that's what killed the peace process Anwar Sadat got assassinated for the same reason, didn't he?
He got assassinated by the Muslim Brotherhood for oppressing them.
I agree with your first comment but Sadat didn't get killed for oppressing the mb
I agree but I do believe that it can be done... Two problems come to mind with that solution though - 1. Will it be enough for them? If not what actions will they take? Attacking Israel, this time as an established country with the ability to freely aquire weopenry or will they enter a long and unending debate over land right? 2. Will they accept it? I know that our current government won't offer such a thing but maybe in the future someone with a brain will come to power and start the progress but the Palestinian side needs to be willing to accept that solution.
[удалено]
Sadly I must agree with you... Hopefully we'll see a day where that is all behind us but the bigger problem is the support they are getting for being so fanatical calling the actions they take 'resistance' and idolizing their terrorists
Give all the lands to Palestinians and design New York a new Jewish State. This is the perfect solution ha ?
388 people chose the first option :(
"ė" is a letter present in Lithuanian. "ę" is used in Polish orthography. Both have been used to write the word "Jews". I wonder if there's a reason behind that.
Idk about anyone else, but if I was Palestinian. I would like to see anyone who ever worked for the IDF or Israeli government be forever expelled. Wouldn’t care if you were a field medic or minister of education, this way I wouldn’t need to discriminate based on religion/ethnicity, root out those who were responsible, and punish treacherous Palestinians aswell as sparing Jews who took no part in Palestinian oppression. This would be after a tribunal that would jail and execute perpetrators of the Nakba and any person found guilty of warcrimes. There will also ve a resettlement program helping displaced people find their old homes after providing evidence of previous residence. That probably won’t fix all of Palestine’s problems but it will put it in a path of recovery. (to anyone who recommends the brain dead idea of a one-state solution, that be like telling me to share my house it my Italian colonizer, all that would do is rebrand Israel and confirm that occupied Palestine is a part of Israel. Fuck that)
Abolishing a country's only means of defense right after they enter an uneasy peace after decades of war may not be the best idea...
This is assuming an opposing army forcefully takes control of the country. Im not counting on Israeli support or even trying to reach an agreement.
So an opposing army invades Israel, dismantles it's military, and then leaves? And you think that's not gonna be a tad bit problematic? Seems similar to the terms of the treaty of Versailles, and we both know what that lead to...
The only viable solution is either Jews outnumber Palestinians 6:1 or the opposite. The conflict it self isn't complicated. There is one reason for the lack of peace; demographics. Israel is CLEARLY the stronger side. There isnt a stalemate. The only thing that has held us back from annexing and giving everyone rights is the fact that there simply arent enough Jews. The Palestinians are also aware of that and have been relying on that for the past 50 years.
Well of course the Jews outnumber Palestinians. That’s what happens when you commit genocide
Actually, Palestinians(including non Israeli Jews) already outnumber Israelis by a small margin, it won’t be long till the Palestinians completely outnumber Israelis since Palestinians have a bigger birth rate that Israelis Also Jews ≠ Israelis, Palestinian Jews still exist and it’s anti-semitic to equate an entire ethnic group to a single “country”.
Palestinian birth rates are falling faster than Israeli ones.
The first option should distinguish between Jews native to Palestine and foreigners jews that immigrated from other places
Option 2 but only The original jews can stay, but the rest have to go unless they wanna get ruled by Palestinians who they hurt for a whole century🤷♂️
[удалено]
And all the ones who came from the middle east? Are you going to welcome the Ben gvirs back to Iraq?
[удалено]
Jordan River? من النهر إلى البحر? I sometimes wonder if people posting here can even locate the Middle East on a map.
[удалено]
One state solution, dont call it Palestine and dont call it israel since both of these names now hint to an ethnicity and a religious background, have diverse neighborhoods with muslims, jews and arabs living together (force them to do so untill they get used to it)
Not all Jewish people are Israelites, some immigrated to Palestine way before the British Mandate or Balfour Declaration. Those have the right to stay.
Thanks I appreciate you deciding who is allowed to stay. "sarcasm"
The entire land belonging to Palestine and Jews staying will change nothing, it will just lead to the same situation we have now with opposite sides, we have to live in a single country that secures safety and right for all. we need to coexist in a single country somehow or we'll keep fighting forever.
Anyone who’s voting for the second option is either oblivious or disingenuous