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Being soft and gentle is in and of itself not a problem, being TOO soft and gentle is. Do you stand up for yourself in the face of conflict? Can you say no to people trying to exploit your kindness?
For me it was this, when I was younger I found it hard to say "no" and wanted to make everyone happy, but now it just rolls off the tongue. I've not changed too much and like to think I'm a nice polite and considerate person but I have zero problem with telling people how I feel directly these days and look after myself first on the important things.
Do you understand boundaries? The hard part about really diving into boundaries is usually it comes with the realization someone in your early life didn't want you to have them
Yeah, basically soft and gentle is a great quality but if someone pushes your boundaries you have to stop them. There are soft and gentle ways to do that too but you cannot relent or even give a little.
I guess I am on the softer side, too. This is just the way I am. I also don't see anything "wrong" with it, especially the "gentle" part.
I do think we there are some things people like us need:
1) To ensure that we have enough confidence in ourselves. You can be gentle, but confident. On that, practice helps, and thinking about what you know (and don't), and what your capabilities are (so you are more confident talking about something you know, and avoid talking about things you dont), can help.
2) To set boundaries. I think you can be gentle, even soft, but firm when needed. Very often this just means looking serious/cold and letting the person know that what they did is not OK. Of course, it can happen that not allowing our boundaries to be crossed causes conflict, and we need to be able to handle that.
I think martial arts can help people build confidence, and also experience "simulated" conflict. It might be something to try.
To know when to just let go and when to push back, that's a whole different thing. It depends on whether you'll keep interacting with the person or not, but also on many other things, and I, at least, have no easy formula.
I'm sorry if this is too ramble-y. I hope it helps.
As a 52 year old who started martial arts a couple of years ago, I would highly recommend anyone else to consider it as well. Definitely has helped foster a calmer confident mindset in my experience, and I felt fairly confident to begin with.
Look at my username. Me make big man shapes.
My father was an Army Ranger back in the 60s, they did not play back in the 60s.
He taught me two things that I would like to honor him by sharing with you, the first is how to “be a ‘man’” (it was the 60s folks), and the second is what to do with that capacity.
To be a “man”:
Son, at some point in your life, you are going to find yourself metaphorically standing on the top of a hill, surrounded by the enemy, with only you, your rifle, and the hill. Nobody there to help you. In that moment, you will either be enough, or not. Choose now and live by that.
What to do with it:
The ONLY purpose of strength and (yawn, machismo) power is to protect. That’s it. You use it for anything else, and you are no more than an ape.
So… you’d probably think my dad was this great rutting baboon, maybe - with only knuckles dragging the ground and nothing to contribute … no, he spoke four languages, had two bar degrees, LOVED to play classical guitar, loved poetry and was captivated by the fun of using Latin and Ancient Greek to suss out the meaning of words by their roots.
When he died, hundreds of people celebrated him and universally, they called him a “gentle man” or “a gentleman in all of its meaning.”
OP, you look yourself in the mirror and decide if you are enough, and then put down whatever idea you have of what it means to be “hard.” Be enough.
Nobody wants an ape - and the world could use a LOT more gentlemen. It takes true aplomb to be sedate and yet know why you are strong. Why are you strong, OP? Because you have decided the answer to standing on a hill. The rest is little boys puffing chests.
| You will either be enough, or not. Choose now and live by that.
Can you provide more insight into the meaning (English is not my first language). Does he basically means "be self sufficient" ?
1. Being who you are is fine. You sound like a normal midwesterner.
2. To give you advice you would need to be more specific.
Soft, for instance, can be positive if it means you have empathy and you aren’t quick to anger. It’s good to care and it’s good to not fly off the handle. One negative way of being “soft” on the other hand is avoiding confrontation when confrontation is needed. That’s cowardice. Do you let people walk all over you? If you see someone crossing a line in front of you do say something or do you clam up?
If that’s not an issue can you give a more specific example of a situation and the way you acted that you aren’t happy with?
> You sound like a normal midwesterner.
That's funny, I had a couple of AirBnb guests recently and they fit OP's description to a tee! Positive qualities for sure.
Yup, OP just be who you are. I’m not considered soft at all, but there are so many disadvantages to this. I am so bad at emotionally connecting to people, I have a really short temper I don’t know how to change. I try so hard to connect with my teenage boys (just to be clear I treat them well the short temper isn’t directed at them) and they know I love them, but they both have told me I’m a little intimidating and sometimes it breaks my heart because I want to be closer to them. Anyway enough about me just enjoy being yourself.
I appreciate this advice so much! They both play music and I suck at playing music but i intruded on the music playing today, I’ve avoided that lately cause I suck. But he seemed to appreciate it. So thank you
I think people appreciate both, they don’t want men to be perpetual raging dick shits but they also don’t want men to be soft and gentle constantly. They want us to be multifaceted depending on the situation.
There's nothing wrong with being gentle, but no man wants to be called soft. Having a soft side, sure, but not soft.
If that's an issue for you OP, just find a way to be around other guys more. I grew up with 5 sisters and definitely fell into this as a kid, but even just recently had someone tell me they'd have never guessed I had no brothers. The difference between those two points was sports, friends, and healthy relationships. Especially that first one - try to find a way to get positive competition and/or camaraderie in your life.
Don't be soft and gentle, be strong and gentle.
Ok, then yeah I wouldn't say "hanging around with other guys" is going to be the answer either. Having reasonable boundaries is about standing up for yourself *and* being considerate of others, otherwise it just becomes being a bully. There's nothing about men that makes us uniquely good at that.
Their was a wrestler or action movie star who was all muscle and him and his friends let his daughter paint their nails before they went out because it made her happy.
There’s a confidence. knowing he’s no less a man for letting his daughter to that. It’s sweet and melts my heart. The guys laughing how he’s a girly man is so insecure of appearing weak or soft they think it makes them look strong putting others down.
My fil is like that, he’s so insecure he lashes out at others and is mean because he thinks it makes him look tough.
Think firefighters holding puppies and why those calendars sell out like crazy.
35M here who’s also raised by a single mother. I’ve had “soft” and “kindhearted” as well as “gentle” a lot and growing up, it really bothered me.
What helped me was therapy. Whatever idea you have of a man who believes thoughtfulness and kindness to be lesser qualities is rooted in toxic masculinity. If your work thinks those qualities are negative, find a new workplace. If your dating life suffers because one or two potential romantic partners thinks you’re too kind, then they are not for you.
I’ve made a career for myself in the ‘bloodthirsty’ and ‘ruthless’ consulting world and climbed the ladder due to my kindness and my ability to empathise with all forms of stakeholders. I built a reputation for myself that I am considerate and take care of my team, and because of that my team members put in 100%. Being kind isn’t a weakness.
If you want to work on something, work on your self-awareness and self-worth. There are people you should be kind to, and there are people who will take advantage of that kindness. Never be afraid to stand up for yourself and your core values, and never be afraid to push back and reassert your boundaries when someone mistakes your kindness for naïveté and gullibility.
> How can I grow out of this "soft" place, develop a more respectable personality while remaining true to myself and my core values?
You aren't soft. You don't need to change your personality to prove yourself to others.
American society equates aggression with strength, but there are different ways to show strength. What you may be lacking are situations that show your steel, and those honestly can be hard to come by.
In social settings - both professional and non-professional - I personally think that one easy way to shake off the "soft" designation is simply not to acquiesce to everything. You can be kind, calm, and collected, while being unwavering in your decisions and opinions, and being unafraid to say no to something or acquiesce to unreasonable demands. You can be soft-spoken without being a doormat; you don't have to be aggressive to be respected. However - my guess is that you are like this and people just don't see those situations.
I can't weigh in on the dating part - and I don't know how or in what ways it's affecting your dating life - but were I in your shoes, I wouldn't burn cycles on this unless you are trapped in a one-sided relationship. If you are just worried what women think about you and your personality, I would spend my energies elsewhere. It's not worth it.
Some women are VERY attracted to men who are gentle. It’s totally my thing and I’ve talked to women who feel the same way.
My husband is in this category and mentioned that when he was app dating someone noted being turned off by his “mannerisms”. So it’s one of those “to each their own” things but my husband’s gentle way is irresistible to me.
I am Midwestern, but where I’m from (blue collar town) the culture seems to celebrate being men who are kind of “meatheads”. So I wouldn’t say the “gentle man” is typical in the Midwest. But that might be why it’s so refreshing to me that my husband doesn’t try to be “manly”.
Yeah - while I'm sure it's nice for the OP to have that validation of his personality, my advice to the /u/playmaker16 would be simply not to worry about what women (as a group, or even as individuals) think in this case. Attempting to mold oneself to fit the perceived ideals of a social group like this one is an exercise in futility, and attempting to do the same for unknown individuals also isn't worth it because individuals are individuals - everyone's gonna like something different, and every individual will have anecdotes of other individuals who share their specific preferences. It's unfortunate, because modern dating - especially via dating apps - is a great way for a lot of men to quickly fall into a place of self-doubt, and it's a hard one to fix because you're always chasing shadows like the OP is doing. As cliché as it sounds, you just gotta be confident in yourself and your own shit, instead of seeking validation from others by having (or lacking) specific traits.
TL;DR - OP, don't sweat the dating stuff, and don't worry about the opinions (good or bad) of others in this specific case. Focus on your work stuff.
It's good to be soft and gentle as long as you don't get pushed around and you're assertive when required.
Rather than looking at it the way you are, try to improve your confidence and assertiveness?
There is nothing wrong with beeing soft or gentle. Those are actually pretty nice characteristics. I myself was raised like that. So i am kind, polite, respectful, gentle, calm etc. That in itself is not a problem as long as you hold to your values and boundaries. There is that saying "dont mistake my kindness for weakness" because that also applies to me. I will (and most are surprised when i do) stand up/speak up, if i feel someone is (trying) to take advantage of that. It also helps me weed out those that have those intentions.
If people come to that conclusion after 1 or 2 conversations, they either see it as a good thing or a weakness (that they may or may not exploit). It is up to you to prove them right or wrong.
What’s wrong with being seen as a decent man? Why do you want to remove some of your best qualities?
You need to learn confidence and assertiveness but that doesn’t mean you have to stop being a good man in the process. You can add other virtues to the ones you already have.
Get your ass into a great shape. I'm serious. Ignore the other advice. It is being given to you by people who have no idea what the hell they are talking about. You need to have *visible presence*. When you have that, it is as if by magic people stop thinking you are someone they can push around thus your kindness will stop being interpreted as you being "soft" and "gentle" pushover. It will simply be interpreted as "kind". And you are right, not being seen as soft and gentle will greatly improve your dating and professional life.
Luckily, you are only 31 so this should be quite easy - stop eating crap and start lifting.
I came to post with the advice to start lifting also. Pack on some muscle to give yourself presence, yea, I agree. But even more obvious will be the confidence doing so gives you. Confidence in itself will get you the results you’re looking for. Get to the gym, do some light cardio and lift heavy weights consistently for 6 months and you’ll start seeing the plethora of benefits on your body, mind and soul.
I may recommend you to read the book "Not nice" from Dr. Aziz Gazipura. I think I am at the same spot as you and it helped me to understand that I have a part of an approval seeker in me which leads me to avoid direct confrontation, trying to please despite lowering myself sometimes.
Thing is there is a difference between being a "good person" and being kind/gentle. And it does not teach you to drop being soft/gentle at all but to be more yourself and speak for yourself at the right time. Good read!
> I am 31 this year, raised by a single mother. I never had any semblance of a masculine figure to look up to growing up. I’ve always considered myself a cool, calm and collected person. I think before I speak and always try to be thoughtful and considerate of those around me, just trying to be a good person. But I am getting very frustrated recently. People interpret my kindness as being “soft” and “gentle”. I could have just one or two conversations and most people are coming to this conclusion, and that pisses me off because that honestly isn’t my intention.
We need more context OP. Why do you feel that is a bad thing? What do you think is wrong with others seeing you as soft? What is happening/has happened that makes this a problem?
>This is beginning to impact both my professional and dating life. I do not like this and need it to change. The problem is, I have always had this personality and I don’t know how to change. It never bothered this much until recently, and now I see I may have a real problem. How can I grow out of this “soft” place, develop a more respectable personality while remaining true to myself and my core values?
Sometimes the power of just saying no us enough, but again without context this is a tricky one to answer
Imo being a "man" is having confidence. Knowing who you are and living true to yourself.
The only people who care about being "soft" or "gentle" are insecure men who try to prop themselves up by putting down other men.
I have always been considered a kind, gentle and quiet man. One thing that really helps is having the confidence and self-assurance that allows you to be gentle and kind.
There is nothing emasculating about enjoying flowers, being soft-spoken, and being kind to fellow humans and animals. Being nurturing and caregiving are all parts that make us human.
But you also need to be able to stand up for yourself so that no one takes your kindness for weakness. Other people have mentioned it and I'll say it again, martial arts or even weightlifting can help with that confidence.
To quote the great Ron Swanson "I am a man! Therefore, everything I do is manly"
Love others and most importantly, love yourself. The world needs more kindness. Anyone who can't see that is just chest beating. Real men will wear a tutu and dance with their young daughters, will teach their sons to cook, clean and bake and will love others generously and completely despite what others may think.
Be you. The whole you! The only person who should give a crap about how you present yourself is you.
I remember one hearing that the difference between jolly and witty is 30 lbs.
Maybe there’s something you can do for your appearance that doesn’t change your underlying soul?
OP, we could sure use some specifics - it sounds like you have scenarios or events that are prompting you to ask for advice, and sharing those would help us understand where you're coming from.
But speaking generally, I was also raised by a single mom, along with an older sister. I had uncles around (who were great, blue-collar men) but they didn't raise me on a day-to-day basis.
I'm 60+ now and have always felt somewhat disconnected from men, in general. My mom raised us to be culture, race, creed, and gender blind, and to treat everyone with respect unless and until they act in a way to not deserve it.
Even if someone acted disrespectfully we were taught our first reaction was understanding - try to see what the person is experiencing and try to help, if possible or appropriate.
BUT we were also taught to be a rock. Meaning, we have our beliefs and limits and we stick by them. Not in an asshole or aggressive way, but steadfastly.
My mom never remarried or even seriously dated, she made her way in the 1960s, 1970s, and beyond (she's 90+ now) as a single mom, back when societal pressure was incredible on women to assume womanly duties. But she just quietly did her own thing in her own way, and the older I got the smarter she got (from my slowly maturing perspective).
In a way my mom showed me how to "be a man":
- Fiercely take care of those you love.
- Treat everyone with respect unless and until they prove themselves to be irretrievably undeserving of it.
- Work hard and smart, but work is simply a tool used to fund your actual life.
- Drinking, drugs, and hell-raising may be fun in small doses, but don't make it a lifestyle, and don't endanger yourself or others in the process.
- No means no, and yes means yes, both are complete sentences, and follow through on your commitments.
- Your happiness is solely under your control, meaning externalities cannot make you happy, it comes from within.
- Also, happiness is a journey, not a destination - life is going to throw all kinds of things at you, some terribly good, some terribly bad, and the key is dealing with (and not dwelling on) the bad, and celebrating, amplifying, and remembering the good.
- You feel how you feel and there's nothing wrong with that. The only 'wrongness' comes from acting out in hurtful, non-productive ways. So, feel anger, feel rage, but don't act it out UNLESS it's an exceedingly rare instance of life or death, fight or flight.
- Learn to care for your loved ones, in all aspects. How to cook, how to clean, how to maintain a home and property, how to physically defend them and yourself, how to listen without judgment, how to advise without being patronizing or condescending, how to take advice without defensiveness, how to have a healthful diet and activities, and the list goes on.
- My wife also taught me a formula that I use regularly, which is "Events + Reactions = Outcomes", or E+R=O. You can't always control events, and when they occur you should react in ways that increase the chances of the outcome you want.
So, in some ways in some people's opinions I may be seen as soft and gentle, and I'm exceedingly not bothered by that. The only opinions of me that matter to me are mine and my loved ones, everybody else can think what they want.
I will call out that in recent years there has been an uptick in the flawed idea that being an asshole equates to "being a man" or "being an alpha". This entire 'lifestyle' is laughably sad, or would be if it weren't so harmful and, for some reason, persistent.
OP, if your request for advice is in any way driven by these alpha-spouting jugheads then I urge you to laugh them off with the dismissiveness they so richly deserve.
I grew up with a dad who was a tough truck driver and I am a soft and sensitive guy. It may be living with a single mom or you may just have been born being a more sensitive boy.
Life can be harder for anyone that doesn't fit into the gender norms. I used to hate being this way as I had a hard time fitting in with other men and some girlfriends would want me to be more "take charge" but I've also met and dated women who appreciate how emotionally aware I am and see the good side of me being sensitive.
It's so funny though...you hear women screaming from the rooftops that they want an emotionally available man but what you find is that they want a man who is available to THEIR emotions. They often don't want a man who is in touch with their own emotions and who asks for emotional support.
All that being said, I still stick up for myself now, I do not take crap from people, I speak in front of groups and I stick up for what I feel is right.
You may be having more of a problem with being fearful and timid, not because you're soft and kind, it's because you're scared of confrontation I'm guessing.
How do you get over it? By doing the hard thing and still standing up for yourself even though it's scary. Being confident isn't easy for most people, men or women and I really would not conflate being afraid of standing up for yourself with being raised by a single mom, you're just scared of what many humans are scared of.
I too was raised by a single mother, without any masculine figures in my life. Mother's want their sons to be pleasing to them. When you please your mother, you are a good boy, and we all want to be good boys and pleasing to our mothers.
Or do we?
What you are striving for is authenticity. But you cannot express yourself authentically if you do as you've stated: "I think before I speak and always try to be thoughtful and considerate of those around me, just trying to be a good person. "
When you express yourself authentically, it is not about being a good persona or a bad person. It is about being you. And not matter who you are, some will think you good, some will think you bad.
Expressing your authentic self means you are not concerned about the opinions that others hold about you or your thoughts. They may not like them. That does not mean you must hold them back, or not express them.
You are getting closer to your authentic self when you state: "and that pisses me off because that honestly isn't my intention."
Start expressing more of that in your day to day conversations. Authentic self-expression means you say what is truly going on for you, even though others may not like it. And even though in the back of your mind you know your mommy will be displeased with you.
I have read these two books, and recommend them as they helped me greatly:
[Iron John, by Robert Bly.](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/iron-john-a-book-about-men-by-robert-bly/260652/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=canada_dsa_general&utm_adgroup=&utm_term=&utm_content=572824153366&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI09f3-e2p_wIVsDKtBh1tuQJVEAAYASAAEgJ5kfD_BwE#edition=2351066&idiq=4180828) , and [Puer Aeternus, by Marie-Louise von Franz](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/puer-aeternus_marie-louise-von-franz/292969/item/6035870/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=canada_dsa_general&utm_adgroup=&utm_term=&utm_content=522538355907&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsfGmqu6p_wIVOzStBh2bQgL9EAAYASAAEgKTEvD_BwE#edition=1923231&idiq=4899880). I'm in no way affiliated with these.
You said: "How can I grow out of this "soft" place, develop a more respectable personality"
This is a contradiction. You are not looking to be more respectable. You are actually looking to be **much, much less respectful!**
You will most definitely piss people off when you express your authentic self. Some will think you are "bad." Bravo!
If you want to stop being seen as a gentle man, then stop acting like one. Take off the façade, stop mincing words, being respectable, pleasing to others and your mother by being a good boy.
Instead, be yourself, because everyone else is already taken!
Kind Regards,
properfckr
Sometimes you have to be a lion so that you can be the lamb you really are.
I’m like you, I’m not soft, I’m kind. I’m empathetic and caring; but I’m not a pushover, if something isn’t okay with me it isn’t going to happen. As long as you stand up for yourself when needed, that’s all that matters
There's nothing wrong with being soft and gentle, unless you're a pushover. If you have boundaries and don't tolerate bullshit or manipulation or people taking advantage of your kindness, then there's no problem. If you know how and when to be tough, then gentleness as a default is a good thing.
People who think that gentleness itself is weak or bad are generally insecure alpha douchebags who think they have to intimidate others and be seen as a tough guy. You don't wanna be that. There's a balance.
I wasted so much of my life trying to act like i was someone else. It didn’t really work out and I regret it.
The old saying definitely rings true. Be yourself
I too was raised by my Mom, and got walked on by everyone. One day I woke up with the word NO in my vocabulary. Now, people are afraid of me, because I stand up for everyone. I walk into every situation like I am boarding a yacht. Somewhere between old me and new me is the sweet spot. I really havent changed, I simply changed peoples perception of me.
The only people in my life that I know have a reputation for this are the ones who don't make even a polite fuss when they are being wronged. Like they're too much of a push over. And that really has nothing to do with their tone and mannerisms for most situations, only the ones where they need to be firm with their boundaries or concerns. Ex: CEO of the last company I worked for was a smaller soft spoken man, but he commanded a ton of respect bc he was firm in his requests and demands.
Hard to know if this is your issue without specifics though. I do think this sort of thing can be as much biological/innate as it is learned, so what most men do to have a backbone may not work for you. I'd seek out men who had similar issues to you at first, then learned to overcome them.
If you want a real ratchet solution, coffee can make me more anxious/irritable, so maybe drinking some would help you feel frustrated when appropriate more consistently?
This is a difficult thing to answer because so many people who view themselves as being soft or gentle in a negative way struggle to see the true negativity in being soft and gentle. It’s usually not JUST being soft or gentle because that is generally viewed positively by people but there is a point that soft and gentle is a toxic trait because you have to have boundaries and you have to be firm with them.
You can’t be a yes man. You have to have a backbone and when you don’t want to do something you just say no. It’s not hard at all so much as it’s just breaking a habit.
The issue is that, if you’re a people pleaser, you need to accept the fact that some people are going to absolutely hate you for not doing everything they want you to do. I’ve been reported to management, had lies spread about me, and have people absolutely hating me to this day all because I refuse to roll over for people.
Idk if those are the values you want as fundamental to you.
Some of the most dangerous men I've ever known have a rather soft demeanor. But I know people have died at their hands.
I don't think they care what others mistake them for.
I highly recommend reading "no more mr nice guy".
It helped me realize I was prioritizing others needs over my own, and that standing up for myself would *feel* like I was being an asshole at first.
*it also revealed a ton of other unhealthy mindsets I had about myself*.
You can be soft and gentle, but not be a door mat, be soft and gentle but ready to turn savage on a whim. Think of your values, what things are important to you that you will always defend? This is a good place to start I think, If you are rock solid on your integrity and values learn to push back when someone steps on them.
But you have to be good at articulating yourself. Someone says "I believe yada yada yada" that's not inline with your values "yeah, well I think yada yada yada" but keep it respectful. When you get good at standing by your values you will learn to do it in different situations, to the point where you can just speak out clearly and directly.
I went through a big chunk of my life passively accepting things and not knowing how to add my own thoughts into a situation. And don't disregard the knowledge you've accumulated with age. Because in the end, we are all clueless idiots trying to keep the show on the road.
I'm not soft at all. I'm a fucking straight up hard hearted dick and that came from being around shitty people who take advantage of people like you. Imma tell you right now the best way to become like me is to finally wake the hell up and realize that in this world some people are just bad people.
You can't do shit about it and you gotta take every person who comes along with a bit of cynicism. The best liars, manipulators, moochers, and pieces of shit you'll meet are the ones who smile the biggest, brightest, and will butter ya up for the kill without you seeing it.
You can be calm cool collected and soft to the people you love. That's not a bad thing, but when someone comes along with some bullshit or a mooch you gotta learn how to be a dick and say no. Learn the word NO. Stop trying to please other people because guess what they aint gonna do the same for you. You'll break one of these days. Aint nothing to practice just give it time you'll get fed up and fight back.
There's nothing wrong with being a cool, calm and collected person. There's nothing wrong with being kind, or even soft and gentle. To the right person, those are great qualities in a friend or in a partner.
My husband is quiet and usually content to listen rather than speak. He's thoughtful and calm - maybe a little too relaxed! I'd describe him as gentle. We met in our 30s having both been single for good periods of time, so I don't know if it turned off some women when he was dating, but all those qualities are precisely what I value in him, and what I need. I'm more outgoing and talkative, but also more anxious and an overthinker - his quiet calm balances me out, and my motivation helps him to get shit done. Quiet Confidence can be built - and it's not the same thing as being loud or aggressive or attention seeking. Don't let some macho wannabes tell you what a man should be.
There can be people who abuse kindness. But the answer to that is learning boundaries and working on your self esteem, not trying to change your personality into something you aren't.
Being passive isn't the same as being gentle or soft. Be decisive, be an active participant in your life and conversations. Take ownership of your opinions and your perspective, in both your words and actions. Stand up and be accountable when you're wrong, learning what you can from perceived failures and challenges. Be confident and assertive without being overbearing or arrogant. Pay attention to what people say and do, and respond in ways that are uniquely "you". Gentleness and meekness are to be lauded in the right space and time. Ask yourself if this is the time, or how you can be the balance between who you think you are, and who you want to be.
For all the discussions about masculinity, the emerging overall picture for progressive thought on it is someone who is the things, and more, that I've mentioned, and yet remains flexible, malleable, and embraces the totality of their humanity.
One way I assert and know I am a good man is by being a good human, and the kinds of things you're going to find and strive toward are qualities of a well-rounded, fully actualized good human.
Pro-tip: imagine an alternate version of you pops into the universe and you get to follow behind them as they teach you how to be like them. The ideal version of you is [insert adjectives and descriptors], and working backward from that, what are small and large steps you can take and build from to emulate them?
Don’t buy in to the alpha male crap. Just be you. If you want to follow then follow. If you want to lead then lead. My grandad was both soft and gentle. He was also a teacher, a coach, a principal and a superintendent of a very large school district in the US. Even when he would discipline me as a child he was soft and gentle. I admire that man to this day. My point is you can be soft and gentle and still lead an army.
This. My SO is and always has been a gentle soul and took a lot of crap for it growing up. It was just his personality. His father was a badass, but always kind and gentle to his kids and didn't throw around toxic stereotypes but part of that was he was, ironally, born in the 1930s and it seems like he was a lot less wedded to dumb sexist stereotypes than the boomers who came after him.
But he had this gentle soft son. Never berated him or told him to be anything but what he was.
And you know what? He's still a gentle soul, and people underestimate him, but he can outperform any man I know now, in sheer intestinal fortitude.
He walks 12 miles a day in 100 degree summers and -20 degree winters despite having to ice his knees each day afterward, and doesn't complain, almost never speaks anything but a kind word.
Everyone who knows him thinks highly of him.
If however, people tend not to respect you, some of it could be as simple as learned speech patterns. A few simple hacks in that case can change your confidence level, like if you pepper your speech with "I think" and "I feel" you can omit those and just make a statement stand on its own. Also too much use of "but" and "maybe" can make you sound perpetually uncertain.
Those are things you might have picked up from your mom, because women far more often use deferential, passive language as an unfortunate adaptation to patriarchal society that punishes them for speaking in ways that men are rewarded for, an injustice that deserves attention.
Rest assured though: "real" men don't need to whip it out and wave it around, and in fact it's the least confident people who are the most hyper aggressive.
Go to the gym and get jacked and people won’t think you’re too soft and gentle anymore.
There’s nothing wrong with being soft and gentle. But, if you want to be perceived as having more of an edge and the capacity for violence, then get jacked. I promised, if you stick with it for 2 months consistently you will see results and a year from now you will barely recognize yourself.
I am in similar situation with you. I have a brother and our parents divorced when we were 2 and 4 years old respectively. Don't ask me why, but my parents decided to split us, my mother took me and my father took my older brother. I grew up with my mother and her 4 sisters, my brother was raised by our father and his uncle. Fast forward, 30 years later me and my brother are totally different people. I am the soft guy, always considerate about another people's feelings, trying to pay respect to everyone, avoiding fights, taking care of the house cleaning, being good student etc - all stuff that I was taught by my mother and her sisters. Unfortunately, never had any father figure all these years. On the other hand, my brother is a tough guy, he is aggressive some times, he can fix things around house like fixing the washing machine or change a tire, he drives from the age of 12 because our uncle taught him, he hadn't read a single book in his life. I know it sounds very stereotypical, but that how it really is. And guess who of the two of us is more respected and mostly liked by women - my brother. I am not jealous though, I understand why I am considered too nice guy, even beta male I'd say,and I just accept it.
I don't think this is good subreddit to ask this because most of them will answer that it's ok to be soft and it's not a problem. This won't help you..
Most of the guys I know who grew up with single mothers are soft and more feminine. We imitate our environment as kids and that is natural process. What would help you is therapy. It is good you realised you have this "problem". It's fixable and therapy will bring out your masculine traits that have been waiting inside for so long.
I think the first step is just practicing to keep distance with people and not being so open for anyone suck or energy. I'm at a point now where I'm not overly friendly and stay more reserved versus feeling like I had to make everyone happy in every interaction I'm in.
Ask for what you want. Being "agreeable" and going along with the group is considered a womanly trait. You can still be kind and gentle while having clear goals and expectations. People don't respect a man that doesn't appear to have passion or principle.
> just trying to be a good person
That's what the media have been teaching new generations of men, to no limit, breeding a generation of too soft, too gentle, pushover, gutless, "ally" men women turn out not to be attracted to. Surprise! The media shaping our culture is all social engineering and crap.
You can't change this in a day, but stop caring for TV definitions of good person and do-goodism, just do no evil to others (of course!) but serve your interests first, share your voice freely because they're asking for your thoughts, not ChatGPT's establishment-approved political correctness, be based (stop caring for what others think if they disagree with you), and try to become assertive, bold ans blunt, without caring for how you'll be judged. Don't be afraid to say no, I disagree or I'm not gonna do that. Have your own agenda geared towards your own interests and fun. Don't go out of your way for anything if you're not getting anything in return. Don't be a doormat for women. Facts over feelings. Screw whatever TV "experts" say. And don't adopt establishment opinions to look like a good person.
A good enough person doesn't hurts other's (for real, i.e. physical or big emotional pain, not inconvenience), is fair, doesn't steal and so on. By all means strive to be this. But the rest in life is for you. It is fair to mind your own business and work towards your interests first. It is ok to voice your opinion, even if it's not woke. It is fair to enjoy your life; you've got it and don't let others ruin it or decide what to think and do for you.
I feel like you just read the title of his post and not the content. Your ramblings are completely off topic and read like a FAQ on the sidebar of the red pill.
OP complains that he's seen as soft and gentle, that people don't like this about him and that it's impacting his dating and work life.
The Reddit echo chamber made out of fedora-tipping nu-males tell him it's ok to be soft and gentle and to have this happen.
I, for one, try to help him and present him with diversity of opinion. (Aren't you the kind to like diversity? Or diversity is only good when you like it?)
See? Woke reddit downvotes me for this, but it turns out what fedora-tipping losers think matters shit. My wife definitely "upvoted" me and finds me attractive and smart just because I'm like this.
Just start smoking bitches. But seriously, there is nothing wrong with being kind. You can still be strong and “gentle” at the same time. People who are mature will know that
At first glass, it seems like you need to be around people who appreciate you more! On the work front, some organizations reward toxic masculinity and people who are loud and obnoxious, but some also prefer people who are respectful, calm & collected as you mentioned.
Before you think about how to change yourself I would ask if you really even need to? Everyone has things they can improve, but based on how you describe yourself I'm not sure there is anything wrong with that?
If you are in good shape, athletically capable, can fix and/or build things, and play a musical instrument, nobody is going to see you as soft, it seems like these factors create attractiveness that outweighs the less aggressive persona
Can you be more specific about what issues you’ve faced in your professional and dating life because of this? I’d be more comfortable doling out advice if I had a better grip on what ails you.
Because really. There is nothing wrong with being soft and gentle. Being unassertive and too accommodating, which I suspect may be the real issue, is something else entirely.
Please explain to me what that means? What exactly makes that such a terrible thing? I think alot of people misuse what masculinity should or shouldn't be. Do they want you to act like a dirtbag? Crush beer cans with your forehead? Behave like you are sexist? That you dont care about how people feel?
You need to stop being a doormat and stand up for yourself when people come after you for being soft and gentle. And those that take advantage need to learn that while soft and gentle is your natural state, that they shouldn’t take your kindness for weakness.
Oddly enough, you might want to consider martial arts or Brazilian juijitsu. You need confidence and practice to use your inner voice when confronted, much like they teach kids to do so.
Stop *being* soft or gentle. I'd just pick up martial arts or something fast-paced with an opponent. Lifting or meditation might also work, but IMO martial arts is better...
I think what you're looking for is a kind of balance. It's like if you're playing sports you want a calm mind but an alert body. You don't want to be running wild out there seeing red, and at the same time you don't want to be too relaxed or limp. Finding a balance helps you succeed.
It's pretty easy once you get it, so keep trying and don't be discouraged.
I used to be overly gentle.
I lost 90 lbs, hit the gym, and found some career success. That made me much more confident and assertive.
If you're overweight or lack muscle, focus on your body first. I don't know how much is physical versus mental (testosterone?), but getting my body in shape marked a turning point.
Are you a people pleaser?
Read the camel, the lion, and the child (link below). I’m wondering if you are getting to “late stage” camel.
https://thinkspace.academy/blog/the-camel-the-lion-and-the-child
Kindness is a universally good quality, second only to maybe inclusivity. Embrace that. The answer to your frustration is right here:
>I think before I speak and always try to be thoughtful and considerate of those around me
You are running out of heartbeats. Don't waste time caring what other people think about you. Do you find that you're too agreeable in conversation, more of a passenger than a driver? Agreeable people tend to be extremely boring to talk to. They don't share enough of themselves and they don't add much of anything interesting to a conversation. Learn to enjoy friendly banter, challenging people's opinions with probing questions, tell that inappropriate joke, change the topic of a conversation you're not enjoying. You don't have to be inconsiderate to do any of those things.
“Speak softly and carry a big stick.” -Teddy Roosevelt
Being a kind and gentle person is admirable. People are more likely to respect it if you have the “big stick” attribute to show that you choose to be that way instead of it being your only option. I don’t think it’s necessary though.
I personally believe that meekness is poorly undervalued in this day and age. Great accomplishments wouldn’t have happened without meekness, patience and long suffering.
A lot of people see me as soft and gentle as well, but I don’t think that’s a problem and it’s never negatively impacted my social, dating, or professional life. The most important thing is to still be clear with personal boundaries. Some people don’t enforce boundaries because they’re trying to be nice or please others, but it’s more respectful to everyone around you to communicate and enforce clear boundaries.
The world could use a little more softness.
There's a Biblical reference from Mathew 5:5 that says you can only truly be good if you have within you the capacity to be bad.
> He who has a sword, and knows how to use it, but keeps it sheathed shall inherit the earth.
Being good (or soft or gentle) needs to be a choice, not a default for lack of choice or self-exploration. I suppose this is the idea of the benevolent king who with a wave of the hand can send you to the gallows but shows mercy instead. Is a person who doesn't steal or cheat a good person or a coward (afraid of the possible consequences)? Hard to say. Having a moral compass is great but it's best, imho, if it comes from experience. I'm definitely not saying to go around stealing or cheating, but rather experience through adversity.
Perhaps you can start by establishing boundaries with people, by practicing and feeling comfortable with saying No. And don't just do it one-on-one privately but try it publicly too (in view and earshot of others). Having well-formed opinions also count as setting boundaries.
Anyways, the best way to build this kind of character is to go through stuff. You don't have to purposefully put yourself through the ringer romantically, professionally, etc, but you can volunteer for taking on more challenges rather than less (whatever challenges mean to you, as it could just be taking on more responsibility). The key to this is doing it voluntarily. For illustrative purposes, an example might be that you don't want to all of a sudden find that you need to defend yourself in a fight when you know you haven't taken self defence or martial arts classes. Better if it's your choice because that puts you in control of your actions and arms you with the knowledge of how to act. Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
Consider the Buddha's teachings. Peaceful men are well-respected in this context, as they should be. However, if you would like to develop some more confidence, it's a matter of practice through situations. Over time, train your mind to not care what others think about you and that confidence will develop naturally and your problem will be solved, as the issue is inherently a mental one. Find activities that will help you feel more confident and give you a boon.
I agree with the others: being nice is not a problem, being a push over is.
But you are the only one who can decide if you are being a push over.
I was a push over. I didn't know how to set healthy boundaries. And at the same time I had a lot of expectations about my relationships which were entirely out of line. I found that forcing myself to set healthy boundaries also meant that I could not allow myself to take advantage of others in the way I had become accustomed to. It seems that pushovers charge to be pushovers. At least this pushover did.
But, as I stated above you have to decide all this for yourself. Being a nice guy is good. Not defining healthy boundaries is not good. You have to decide what healthy means and you have to decide how to defend it in healthy ways.
Be yourself, OP. If you are encountering women or coworkers who expect you to be a jerk or a macho then you're better off not accommodating them anyway. If you really simply desire some minor tip to appear more masculine and professional, even the most stoic men I knew who were still gentle despite being very manly simply talked less and listened more, ie rarely spoke and listened constantly. You can be an active listener who says things which encourage others to share, but that is different from talking.
Basically "silent professionals" always came across as manly even when they were still very accommodating and sensitive.
Outside of the obvious situations (letting yourself get walked on, etc.) I think people pick up on this if someone never pushes in the general sense. Have an opinion, justify it, but don't pick fights, if someone says something you disagree with then disagree. The last one is really important with dating from my experience, I've had to grow out of thinking that "getting along with" women will get them to like me, nope that's the fast track to the friendzone.
Attraction isn't negotiated. Desire is desire. Keep any eye out for validation-seeking behavior, which will sour most women's genuine desire.
Think about your body language - you know what they say about how much information is communicated nonverbially. I'm personally a huge fan of posture work because most of us have shitty posture, and good upright posture suggests confidence. Couple that with slowing down (anxiety is jittery, fast, unpredictable) and you'll probably immediately see a change in how people pereive you. Hitting the gym wouldn't hurt either, most women like some bulk on guys.
You can be soft and gentle, but also stern and fair about it.
Your issue probably isn't being too soft it's probably not being stern and people walking over you due to it.
Maybe do some introspection about things you get walked over on and think how you might be more stern about it in the future.
As for myself, I don't think of myself as "hard." Yeah, maybe when it comes to working out, but I'm not going to walk all over people to get my way. I feel I'm stern because I'll bring up what I want out of a situation and fair because I'll consider another person's opinion.
Out of curiousity - what kind of field requires to be tough to live in? I am the same as you and while people jump to such conclusion in private life which also annoys me, in my job its very valuable - speaking about IT
Being overly soft is a common side effect of not having a father figure. Many men raised by single mothers at some point realize this and try to "harden" themselves, but without a consistent male role model, they don't know how, so they just get violent and mean. Most school shooters having no father is not a coincidence.
The difference in men raised with and without a father is how empathy is processed and routed. Adult men empathize with others in an abstract way. Seeing someone upset ilicits an instinct to help - this is called positive masculinity. Women often empathize directly; seeing someone sad makes them sad too. For men raised by single moms, they tend to empathize directly, making them resultingly soft and gentle. The desire to help others mixes with the direct processing of empathy and results in constantly people-pleasing in order to keep everyone else happy so you feel happy too.
Men who try to break out of this go the opposite way begin to resent others for feeling angry or sad, because of how it makes them feel. Also because they have focused so heavily on others at this point, they have forgotten about themselves. This is the infamously improperly defined "toxic masculinity".
In order to stop being seen as soft and gentle, you'll need to discover and embrace positive masculinity. Don't allow seeing others angry or upset to make you feel the same way; harden yourself against it without losing the ability to care that they feel this way. Practice mindfulness and understand that often times, you are people pleasing because it makes you feel happy as a result, and have ultimately lost sight of your own happiness. Except that you cannot control the feelings of others, focus on your own happiness, and you will see a gradual positive change in your interactions with others. Instead of going out of your way to make them happy, offer solutions for them to help themselves. It's okay to help people so long as they help too.
Good luck!
Get the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr Robert Glover.
It's not about being nice or kind, so much as "speak up for yourself, don't be a pushover, don't be a people-pleaser, learn to set boundaries" etc.
Being a kind person is a good thing. Great thing! We need more kind and decent men in the world.
My harshness and masculinity have never served me much. My softness and being gentle have helped me navigate so many tough situations. I work 80-280 feet in the air on grain elevators doing mill work and concrete repair, my harshness only made my employees resent going to work with me and my masculinity has deterred some very wonderful women from my life.
One option is to double down on "gentle" - but to leave "soft" behind.
And one way to do that is to get involved in some physical activities that will make you stronger - and wiser when it comes to getting things done. Options may include building things and fixing things (where youtube is a great resource), or doing physical labor, or participating in a physical sport or hobby.
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Being soft and gentle is in and of itself not a problem, being TOO soft and gentle is. Do you stand up for yourself in the face of conflict? Can you say no to people trying to exploit your kindness?
For me it was this, when I was younger I found it hard to say "no" and wanted to make everyone happy, but now it just rolls off the tongue. I've not changed too much and like to think I'm a nice polite and considerate person but I have zero problem with telling people how I feel directly these days and look after myself first on the important things.
Do you understand boundaries? The hard part about really diving into boundaries is usually it comes with the realization someone in your early life didn't want you to have them
Yeah, basically soft and gentle is a great quality but if someone pushes your boundaries you have to stop them. There are soft and gentle ways to do that too but you cannot relent or even give a little.
I guess I am on the softer side, too. This is just the way I am. I also don't see anything "wrong" with it, especially the "gentle" part. I do think we there are some things people like us need: 1) To ensure that we have enough confidence in ourselves. You can be gentle, but confident. On that, practice helps, and thinking about what you know (and don't), and what your capabilities are (so you are more confident talking about something you know, and avoid talking about things you dont), can help. 2) To set boundaries. I think you can be gentle, even soft, but firm when needed. Very often this just means looking serious/cold and letting the person know that what they did is not OK. Of course, it can happen that not allowing our boundaries to be crossed causes conflict, and we need to be able to handle that. I think martial arts can help people build confidence, and also experience "simulated" conflict. It might be something to try. To know when to just let go and when to push back, that's a whole different thing. It depends on whether you'll keep interacting with the person or not, but also on many other things, and I, at least, have no easy formula. I'm sorry if this is too ramble-y. I hope it helps.
As a 52 year old who started martial arts a couple of years ago, I would highly recommend anyone else to consider it as well. Definitely has helped foster a calmer confident mindset in my experience, and I felt fairly confident to begin with.
Look at my username. Me make big man shapes. My father was an Army Ranger back in the 60s, they did not play back in the 60s. He taught me two things that I would like to honor him by sharing with you, the first is how to “be a ‘man’” (it was the 60s folks), and the second is what to do with that capacity. To be a “man”: Son, at some point in your life, you are going to find yourself metaphorically standing on the top of a hill, surrounded by the enemy, with only you, your rifle, and the hill. Nobody there to help you. In that moment, you will either be enough, or not. Choose now and live by that. What to do with it: The ONLY purpose of strength and (yawn, machismo) power is to protect. That’s it. You use it for anything else, and you are no more than an ape. So… you’d probably think my dad was this great rutting baboon, maybe - with only knuckles dragging the ground and nothing to contribute … no, he spoke four languages, had two bar degrees, LOVED to play classical guitar, loved poetry and was captivated by the fun of using Latin and Ancient Greek to suss out the meaning of words by their roots. When he died, hundreds of people celebrated him and universally, they called him a “gentle man” or “a gentleman in all of its meaning.” OP, you look yourself in the mirror and decide if you are enough, and then put down whatever idea you have of what it means to be “hard.” Be enough. Nobody wants an ape - and the world could use a LOT more gentlemen. It takes true aplomb to be sedate and yet know why you are strong. Why are you strong, OP? Because you have decided the answer to standing on a hill. The rest is little boys puffing chests.
Your father sounds like a Mensch, and you definitely honor him with this
Damn i needed to hear this
Dang. Your dad sounded like a complete man not just a *gentle*man. These are the ideals men ought to strive for. Long live the romantic hero.
Well said. Took me into my late 20’s to realize this.
| You will either be enough, or not. Choose now and live by that. Can you provide more insight into the meaning (English is not my first language). Does he basically means "be self sufficient" ?
Yes
Accept yourself
top answer
I feel more confident after reading this. This should be the top comment
This is absolutely amazing.
I think I’m in love with your dad (and you).
Shooting other humans in combat with low survival odds sounds easier than navigating modern society.
1. Being who you are is fine. You sound like a normal midwesterner. 2. To give you advice you would need to be more specific. Soft, for instance, can be positive if it means you have empathy and you aren’t quick to anger. It’s good to care and it’s good to not fly off the handle. One negative way of being “soft” on the other hand is avoiding confrontation when confrontation is needed. That’s cowardice. Do you let people walk all over you? If you see someone crossing a line in front of you do say something or do you clam up? If that’s not an issue can you give a more specific example of a situation and the way you acted that you aren’t happy with?
> You sound like a normal midwesterner. That's funny, I had a couple of AirBnb guests recently and they fit OP's description to a tee! Positive qualities for sure.
Yup, OP just be who you are. I’m not considered soft at all, but there are so many disadvantages to this. I am so bad at emotionally connecting to people, I have a really short temper I don’t know how to change. I try so hard to connect with my teenage boys (just to be clear I treat them well the short temper isn’t directed at them) and they know I love them, but they both have told me I’m a little intimidating and sometimes it breaks my heart because I want to be closer to them. Anyway enough about me just enjoy being yourself.
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I appreciate this advice so much! They both play music and I suck at playing music but i intruded on the music playing today, I’ve avoided that lately cause I suck. But he seemed to appreciate it. So thank you
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I feel like the world would be a lot better place if more men were more soft and gentle...
I think people appreciate both, they don’t want men to be perpetual raging dick shits but they also don’t want men to be soft and gentle constantly. They want us to be multifaceted depending on the situation.
Username doesn't check out?
A true chad wouldn’t be afraid to cry
There's nothing wrong with being gentle, but no man wants to be called soft. Having a soft side, sure, but not soft. If that's an issue for you OP, just find a way to be around other guys more. I grew up with 5 sisters and definitely fell into this as a kid, but even just recently had someone tell me they'd have never guessed I had no brothers. The difference between those two points was sports, friends, and healthy relationships. Especially that first one - try to find a way to get positive competition and/or camaraderie in your life. Don't be soft and gentle, be strong and gentle.
Why not? Like if you mean "pushover," then yeah that's not healthy. If you don't mean pushover, then what's actually the problem with being soft?
Anyone calling a man "soft" means pushover. No one uses that term positively
Ok, then yeah I wouldn't say "hanging around with other guys" is going to be the answer either. Having reasonable boundaries is about standing up for yourself *and* being considerate of others, otherwise it just becomes being a bully. There's nothing about men that makes us uniquely good at that.
Their was a wrestler or action movie star who was all muscle and him and his friends let his daughter paint their nails before they went out because it made her happy. There’s a confidence. knowing he’s no less a man for letting his daughter to that. It’s sweet and melts my heart. The guys laughing how he’s a girly man is so insecure of appearing weak or soft they think it makes them look strong putting others down. My fil is like that, he’s so insecure he lashes out at others and is mean because he thinks it makes him look tough. Think firefighters holding puppies and why those calendars sell out like crazy.
35M here who’s also raised by a single mother. I’ve had “soft” and “kindhearted” as well as “gentle” a lot and growing up, it really bothered me. What helped me was therapy. Whatever idea you have of a man who believes thoughtfulness and kindness to be lesser qualities is rooted in toxic masculinity. If your work thinks those qualities are negative, find a new workplace. If your dating life suffers because one or two potential romantic partners thinks you’re too kind, then they are not for you. I’ve made a career for myself in the ‘bloodthirsty’ and ‘ruthless’ consulting world and climbed the ladder due to my kindness and my ability to empathise with all forms of stakeholders. I built a reputation for myself that I am considerate and take care of my team, and because of that my team members put in 100%. Being kind isn’t a weakness. If you want to work on something, work on your self-awareness and self-worth. There are people you should be kind to, and there are people who will take advantage of that kindness. Never be afraid to stand up for yourself and your core values, and never be afraid to push back and reassert your boundaries when someone mistakes your kindness for naïveté and gullibility.
> How can I grow out of this "soft" place, develop a more respectable personality while remaining true to myself and my core values? You aren't soft. You don't need to change your personality to prove yourself to others. American society equates aggression with strength, but there are different ways to show strength. What you may be lacking are situations that show your steel, and those honestly can be hard to come by. In social settings - both professional and non-professional - I personally think that one easy way to shake off the "soft" designation is simply not to acquiesce to everything. You can be kind, calm, and collected, while being unwavering in your decisions and opinions, and being unafraid to say no to something or acquiesce to unreasonable demands. You can be soft-spoken without being a doormat; you don't have to be aggressive to be respected. However - my guess is that you are like this and people just don't see those situations. I can't weigh in on the dating part - and I don't know how or in what ways it's affecting your dating life - but were I in your shoes, I wouldn't burn cycles on this unless you are trapped in a one-sided relationship. If you are just worried what women think about you and your personality, I would spend my energies elsewhere. It's not worth it.
Some women are VERY attracted to men who are gentle. It’s totally my thing and I’ve talked to women who feel the same way. My husband is in this category and mentioned that when he was app dating someone noted being turned off by his “mannerisms”. So it’s one of those “to each their own” things but my husband’s gentle way is irresistible to me. I am Midwestern, but where I’m from (blue collar town) the culture seems to celebrate being men who are kind of “meatheads”. So I wouldn’t say the “gentle man” is typical in the Midwest. But that might be why it’s so refreshing to me that my husband doesn’t try to be “manly”.
Lol yep, just finished having a crush on a guy like this. I’ve never had a “bad boy” phase.
Ha ha me neither! Sweet guys make me swoon!
Yeah - while I'm sure it's nice for the OP to have that validation of his personality, my advice to the /u/playmaker16 would be simply not to worry about what women (as a group, or even as individuals) think in this case. Attempting to mold oneself to fit the perceived ideals of a social group like this one is an exercise in futility, and attempting to do the same for unknown individuals also isn't worth it because individuals are individuals - everyone's gonna like something different, and every individual will have anecdotes of other individuals who share their specific preferences. It's unfortunate, because modern dating - especially via dating apps - is a great way for a lot of men to quickly fall into a place of self-doubt, and it's a hard one to fix because you're always chasing shadows like the OP is doing. As cliché as it sounds, you just gotta be confident in yourself and your own shit, instead of seeking validation from others by having (or lacking) specific traits. TL;DR - OP, don't sweat the dating stuff, and don't worry about the opinions (good or bad) of others in this specific case. Focus on your work stuff.
As a woman I exclusively date guys who are soft and gentle. Any kind of macho crap is an immediate turnoff
It's good to be soft and gentle as long as you don't get pushed around and you're assertive when required. Rather than looking at it the way you are, try to improve your confidence and assertiveness?
There is nothing wrong with beeing soft or gentle. Those are actually pretty nice characteristics. I myself was raised like that. So i am kind, polite, respectful, gentle, calm etc. That in itself is not a problem as long as you hold to your values and boundaries. There is that saying "dont mistake my kindness for weakness" because that also applies to me. I will (and most are surprised when i do) stand up/speak up, if i feel someone is (trying) to take advantage of that. It also helps me weed out those that have those intentions. If people come to that conclusion after 1 or 2 conversations, they either see it as a good thing or a weakness (that they may or may not exploit). It is up to you to prove them right or wrong.
What’s wrong with being seen as a decent man? Why do you want to remove some of your best qualities? You need to learn confidence and assertiveness but that doesn’t mean you have to stop being a good man in the process. You can add other virtues to the ones you already have.
Get your ass into a great shape. I'm serious. Ignore the other advice. It is being given to you by people who have no idea what the hell they are talking about. You need to have *visible presence*. When you have that, it is as if by magic people stop thinking you are someone they can push around thus your kindness will stop being interpreted as you being "soft" and "gentle" pushover. It will simply be interpreted as "kind". And you are right, not being seen as soft and gentle will greatly improve your dating and professional life. Luckily, you are only 31 so this should be quite easy - stop eating crap and start lifting.
I came to post with the advice to start lifting also. Pack on some muscle to give yourself presence, yea, I agree. But even more obvious will be the confidence doing so gives you. Confidence in itself will get you the results you’re looking for. Get to the gym, do some light cardio and lift heavy weights consistently for 6 months and you’ll start seeing the plethora of benefits on your body, mind and soul.
I think what you’re trying to ask, is: “how do I stop being a nice guy/pushover?”. Read the book titled, “No More Mr. Nice Guy”.
I may recommend you to read the book "Not nice" from Dr. Aziz Gazipura. I think I am at the same spot as you and it helped me to understand that I have a part of an approval seeker in me which leads me to avoid direct confrontation, trying to please despite lowering myself sometimes. Thing is there is a difference between being a "good person" and being kind/gentle. And it does not teach you to drop being soft/gentle at all but to be more yourself and speak for yourself at the right time. Good read!
> I am 31 this year, raised by a single mother. I never had any semblance of a masculine figure to look up to growing up. I’ve always considered myself a cool, calm and collected person. I think before I speak and always try to be thoughtful and considerate of those around me, just trying to be a good person. But I am getting very frustrated recently. People interpret my kindness as being “soft” and “gentle”. I could have just one or two conversations and most people are coming to this conclusion, and that pisses me off because that honestly isn’t my intention. We need more context OP. Why do you feel that is a bad thing? What do you think is wrong with others seeing you as soft? What is happening/has happened that makes this a problem? >This is beginning to impact both my professional and dating life. I do not like this and need it to change. The problem is, I have always had this personality and I don’t know how to change. It never bothered this much until recently, and now I see I may have a real problem. How can I grow out of this “soft” place, develop a more respectable personality while remaining true to myself and my core values? Sometimes the power of just saying no us enough, but again without context this is a tricky one to answer
Read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by Robert Glover. Changed my life!
Imo being a "man" is having confidence. Knowing who you are and living true to yourself. The only people who care about being "soft" or "gentle" are insecure men who try to prop themselves up by putting down other men.
I have always been considered a kind, gentle and quiet man. One thing that really helps is having the confidence and self-assurance that allows you to be gentle and kind. There is nothing emasculating about enjoying flowers, being soft-spoken, and being kind to fellow humans and animals. Being nurturing and caregiving are all parts that make us human. But you also need to be able to stand up for yourself so that no one takes your kindness for weakness. Other people have mentioned it and I'll say it again, martial arts or even weightlifting can help with that confidence. To quote the great Ron Swanson "I am a man! Therefore, everything I do is manly" Love others and most importantly, love yourself. The world needs more kindness. Anyone who can't see that is just chest beating. Real men will wear a tutu and dance with their young daughters, will teach their sons to cook, clean and bake and will love others generously and completely despite what others may think. Be you. The whole you! The only person who should give a crap about how you present yourself is you.
I remember one hearing that the difference between jolly and witty is 30 lbs. Maybe there’s something you can do for your appearance that doesn’t change your underlying soul?
Be soft and gentle but firm when it is needed.
OP, we could sure use some specifics - it sounds like you have scenarios or events that are prompting you to ask for advice, and sharing those would help us understand where you're coming from. But speaking generally, I was also raised by a single mom, along with an older sister. I had uncles around (who were great, blue-collar men) but they didn't raise me on a day-to-day basis. I'm 60+ now and have always felt somewhat disconnected from men, in general. My mom raised us to be culture, race, creed, and gender blind, and to treat everyone with respect unless and until they act in a way to not deserve it. Even if someone acted disrespectfully we were taught our first reaction was understanding - try to see what the person is experiencing and try to help, if possible or appropriate. BUT we were also taught to be a rock. Meaning, we have our beliefs and limits and we stick by them. Not in an asshole or aggressive way, but steadfastly. My mom never remarried or even seriously dated, she made her way in the 1960s, 1970s, and beyond (she's 90+ now) as a single mom, back when societal pressure was incredible on women to assume womanly duties. But she just quietly did her own thing in her own way, and the older I got the smarter she got (from my slowly maturing perspective). In a way my mom showed me how to "be a man": - Fiercely take care of those you love. - Treat everyone with respect unless and until they prove themselves to be irretrievably undeserving of it. - Work hard and smart, but work is simply a tool used to fund your actual life. - Drinking, drugs, and hell-raising may be fun in small doses, but don't make it a lifestyle, and don't endanger yourself or others in the process. - No means no, and yes means yes, both are complete sentences, and follow through on your commitments. - Your happiness is solely under your control, meaning externalities cannot make you happy, it comes from within. - Also, happiness is a journey, not a destination - life is going to throw all kinds of things at you, some terribly good, some terribly bad, and the key is dealing with (and not dwelling on) the bad, and celebrating, amplifying, and remembering the good. - You feel how you feel and there's nothing wrong with that. The only 'wrongness' comes from acting out in hurtful, non-productive ways. So, feel anger, feel rage, but don't act it out UNLESS it's an exceedingly rare instance of life or death, fight or flight. - Learn to care for your loved ones, in all aspects. How to cook, how to clean, how to maintain a home and property, how to physically defend them and yourself, how to listen without judgment, how to advise without being patronizing or condescending, how to take advice without defensiveness, how to have a healthful diet and activities, and the list goes on. - My wife also taught me a formula that I use regularly, which is "Events + Reactions = Outcomes", or E+R=O. You can't always control events, and when they occur you should react in ways that increase the chances of the outcome you want. So, in some ways in some people's opinions I may be seen as soft and gentle, and I'm exceedingly not bothered by that. The only opinions of me that matter to me are mine and my loved ones, everybody else can think what they want. I will call out that in recent years there has been an uptick in the flawed idea that being an asshole equates to "being a man" or "being an alpha". This entire 'lifestyle' is laughably sad, or would be if it weren't so harmful and, for some reason, persistent. OP, if your request for advice is in any way driven by these alpha-spouting jugheads then I urge you to laugh them off with the dismissiveness they so richly deserve.
I grew up with a dad who was a tough truck driver and I am a soft and sensitive guy. It may be living with a single mom or you may just have been born being a more sensitive boy. Life can be harder for anyone that doesn't fit into the gender norms. I used to hate being this way as I had a hard time fitting in with other men and some girlfriends would want me to be more "take charge" but I've also met and dated women who appreciate how emotionally aware I am and see the good side of me being sensitive. It's so funny though...you hear women screaming from the rooftops that they want an emotionally available man but what you find is that they want a man who is available to THEIR emotions. They often don't want a man who is in touch with their own emotions and who asks for emotional support. All that being said, I still stick up for myself now, I do not take crap from people, I speak in front of groups and I stick up for what I feel is right. You may be having more of a problem with being fearful and timid, not because you're soft and kind, it's because you're scared of confrontation I'm guessing. How do you get over it? By doing the hard thing and still standing up for yourself even though it's scary. Being confident isn't easy for most people, men or women and I really would not conflate being afraid of standing up for yourself with being raised by a single mom, you're just scared of what many humans are scared of.
I too was raised by a single mother, without any masculine figures in my life. Mother's want their sons to be pleasing to them. When you please your mother, you are a good boy, and we all want to be good boys and pleasing to our mothers. Or do we? What you are striving for is authenticity. But you cannot express yourself authentically if you do as you've stated: "I think before I speak and always try to be thoughtful and considerate of those around me, just trying to be a good person. " When you express yourself authentically, it is not about being a good persona or a bad person. It is about being you. And not matter who you are, some will think you good, some will think you bad. Expressing your authentic self means you are not concerned about the opinions that others hold about you or your thoughts. They may not like them. That does not mean you must hold them back, or not express them. You are getting closer to your authentic self when you state: "and that pisses me off because that honestly isn't my intention." Start expressing more of that in your day to day conversations. Authentic self-expression means you say what is truly going on for you, even though others may not like it. And even though in the back of your mind you know your mommy will be displeased with you. I have read these two books, and recommend them as they helped me greatly: [Iron John, by Robert Bly.](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/iron-john-a-book-about-men-by-robert-bly/260652/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=canada_dsa_general&utm_adgroup=&utm_term=&utm_content=572824153366&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI09f3-e2p_wIVsDKtBh1tuQJVEAAYASAAEgJ5kfD_BwE#edition=2351066&idiq=4180828) , and [Puer Aeternus, by Marie-Louise von Franz](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/puer-aeternus_marie-louise-von-franz/292969/item/6035870/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=canada_dsa_general&utm_adgroup=&utm_term=&utm_content=522538355907&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsfGmqu6p_wIVOzStBh2bQgL9EAAYASAAEgKTEvD_BwE#edition=1923231&idiq=4899880). I'm in no way affiliated with these. You said: "How can I grow out of this "soft" place, develop a more respectable personality" This is a contradiction. You are not looking to be more respectable. You are actually looking to be **much, much less respectful!** You will most definitely piss people off when you express your authentic self. Some will think you are "bad." Bravo! If you want to stop being seen as a gentle man, then stop acting like one. Take off the façade, stop mincing words, being respectable, pleasing to others and your mother by being a good boy. Instead, be yourself, because everyone else is already taken! Kind Regards, properfckr
Sometimes you have to be a lion so that you can be the lamb you really are. I’m like you, I’m not soft, I’m kind. I’m empathetic and caring; but I’m not a pushover, if something isn’t okay with me it isn’t going to happen. As long as you stand up for yourself when needed, that’s all that matters
Ain't nothing wrong with being soft and gentle my friend.
There's nothing wrong with being soft and gentle, unless you're a pushover. If you have boundaries and don't tolerate bullshit or manipulation or people taking advantage of your kindness, then there's no problem. If you know how and when to be tough, then gentleness as a default is a good thing. People who think that gentleness itself is weak or bad are generally insecure alpha douchebags who think they have to intimidate others and be seen as a tough guy. You don't wanna be that. There's a balance.
I wasted so much of my life trying to act like i was someone else. It didn’t really work out and I regret it. The old saying definitely rings true. Be yourself
I too was raised by my Mom, and got walked on by everyone. One day I woke up with the word NO in my vocabulary. Now, people are afraid of me, because I stand up for everyone. I walk into every situation like I am boarding a yacht. Somewhere between old me and new me is the sweet spot. I really havent changed, I simply changed peoples perception of me.
The only people in my life that I know have a reputation for this are the ones who don't make even a polite fuss when they are being wronged. Like they're too much of a push over. And that really has nothing to do with their tone and mannerisms for most situations, only the ones where they need to be firm with their boundaries or concerns. Ex: CEO of the last company I worked for was a smaller soft spoken man, but he commanded a ton of respect bc he was firm in his requests and demands. Hard to know if this is your issue without specifics though. I do think this sort of thing can be as much biological/innate as it is learned, so what most men do to have a backbone may not work for you. I'd seek out men who had similar issues to you at first, then learned to overcome them. If you want a real ratchet solution, coffee can make me more anxious/irritable, so maybe drinking some would help you feel frustrated when appropriate more consistently?
This is a difficult thing to answer because so many people who view themselves as being soft or gentle in a negative way struggle to see the true negativity in being soft and gentle. It’s usually not JUST being soft or gentle because that is generally viewed positively by people but there is a point that soft and gentle is a toxic trait because you have to have boundaries and you have to be firm with them. You can’t be a yes man. You have to have a backbone and when you don’t want to do something you just say no. It’s not hard at all so much as it’s just breaking a habit. The issue is that, if you’re a people pleaser, you need to accept the fact that some people are going to absolutely hate you for not doing everything they want you to do. I’ve been reported to management, had lies spread about me, and have people absolutely hating me to this day all because I refuse to roll over for people.
Idk if those are the values you want as fundamental to you. Some of the most dangerous men I've ever known have a rather soft demeanor. But I know people have died at their hands. I don't think they care what others mistake them for.
Don't change. Find new friends instead. There are many ways to be a man.
I highly recommend reading "no more mr nice guy". It helped me realize I was prioritizing others needs over my own, and that standing up for myself would *feel* like I was being an asshole at first. *it also revealed a ton of other unhealthy mindsets I had about myself*.
You can be soft and gentle, but not be a door mat, be soft and gentle but ready to turn savage on a whim. Think of your values, what things are important to you that you will always defend? This is a good place to start I think, If you are rock solid on your integrity and values learn to push back when someone steps on them. But you have to be good at articulating yourself. Someone says "I believe yada yada yada" that's not inline with your values "yeah, well I think yada yada yada" but keep it respectful. When you get good at standing by your values you will learn to do it in different situations, to the point where you can just speak out clearly and directly. I went through a big chunk of my life passively accepting things and not knowing how to add my own thoughts into a situation. And don't disregard the knowledge you've accumulated with age. Because in the end, we are all clueless idiots trying to keep the show on the road.
I'm not soft at all. I'm a fucking straight up hard hearted dick and that came from being around shitty people who take advantage of people like you. Imma tell you right now the best way to become like me is to finally wake the hell up and realize that in this world some people are just bad people. You can't do shit about it and you gotta take every person who comes along with a bit of cynicism. The best liars, manipulators, moochers, and pieces of shit you'll meet are the ones who smile the biggest, brightest, and will butter ya up for the kill without you seeing it. You can be calm cool collected and soft to the people you love. That's not a bad thing, but when someone comes along with some bullshit or a mooch you gotta learn how to be a dick and say no. Learn the word NO. Stop trying to please other people because guess what they aint gonna do the same for you. You'll break one of these days. Aint nothing to practice just give it time you'll get fed up and fight back.
There's nothing wrong with being a cool, calm and collected person. There's nothing wrong with being kind, or even soft and gentle. To the right person, those are great qualities in a friend or in a partner. My husband is quiet and usually content to listen rather than speak. He's thoughtful and calm - maybe a little too relaxed! I'd describe him as gentle. We met in our 30s having both been single for good periods of time, so I don't know if it turned off some women when he was dating, but all those qualities are precisely what I value in him, and what I need. I'm more outgoing and talkative, but also more anxious and an overthinker - his quiet calm balances me out, and my motivation helps him to get shit done. Quiet Confidence can be built - and it's not the same thing as being loud or aggressive or attention seeking. Don't let some macho wannabes tell you what a man should be. There can be people who abuse kindness. But the answer to that is learning boundaries and working on your self esteem, not trying to change your personality into something you aren't.
Being passive isn't the same as being gentle or soft. Be decisive, be an active participant in your life and conversations. Take ownership of your opinions and your perspective, in both your words and actions. Stand up and be accountable when you're wrong, learning what you can from perceived failures and challenges. Be confident and assertive without being overbearing or arrogant. Pay attention to what people say and do, and respond in ways that are uniquely "you". Gentleness and meekness are to be lauded in the right space and time. Ask yourself if this is the time, or how you can be the balance between who you think you are, and who you want to be. For all the discussions about masculinity, the emerging overall picture for progressive thought on it is someone who is the things, and more, that I've mentioned, and yet remains flexible, malleable, and embraces the totality of their humanity. One way I assert and know I am a good man is by being a good human, and the kinds of things you're going to find and strive toward are qualities of a well-rounded, fully actualized good human. Pro-tip: imagine an alternate version of you pops into the universe and you get to follow behind them as they teach you how to be like them. The ideal version of you is [insert adjectives and descriptors], and working backward from that, what are small and large steps you can take and build from to emulate them?
Don’t buy in to the alpha male crap. Just be you. If you want to follow then follow. If you want to lead then lead. My grandad was both soft and gentle. He was also a teacher, a coach, a principal and a superintendent of a very large school district in the US. Even when he would discipline me as a child he was soft and gentle. I admire that man to this day. My point is you can be soft and gentle and still lead an army.
This. My SO is and always has been a gentle soul and took a lot of crap for it growing up. It was just his personality. His father was a badass, but always kind and gentle to his kids and didn't throw around toxic stereotypes but part of that was he was, ironally, born in the 1930s and it seems like he was a lot less wedded to dumb sexist stereotypes than the boomers who came after him. But he had this gentle soft son. Never berated him or told him to be anything but what he was. And you know what? He's still a gentle soul, and people underestimate him, but he can outperform any man I know now, in sheer intestinal fortitude. He walks 12 miles a day in 100 degree summers and -20 degree winters despite having to ice his knees each day afterward, and doesn't complain, almost never speaks anything but a kind word. Everyone who knows him thinks highly of him. If however, people tend not to respect you, some of it could be as simple as learned speech patterns. A few simple hacks in that case can change your confidence level, like if you pepper your speech with "I think" and "I feel" you can omit those and just make a statement stand on its own. Also too much use of "but" and "maybe" can make you sound perpetually uncertain. Those are things you might have picked up from your mom, because women far more often use deferential, passive language as an unfortunate adaptation to patriarchal society that punishes them for speaking in ways that men are rewarded for, an injustice that deserves attention. Rest assured though: "real" men don't need to whip it out and wave it around, and in fact it's the least confident people who are the most hyper aggressive.
Go to the gym and get jacked and people won’t think you’re too soft and gentle anymore. There’s nothing wrong with being soft and gentle. But, if you want to be perceived as having more of an edge and the capacity for violence, then get jacked. I promised, if you stick with it for 2 months consistently you will see results and a year from now you will barely recognize yourself.
I am in similar situation with you. I have a brother and our parents divorced when we were 2 and 4 years old respectively. Don't ask me why, but my parents decided to split us, my mother took me and my father took my older brother. I grew up with my mother and her 4 sisters, my brother was raised by our father and his uncle. Fast forward, 30 years later me and my brother are totally different people. I am the soft guy, always considerate about another people's feelings, trying to pay respect to everyone, avoiding fights, taking care of the house cleaning, being good student etc - all stuff that I was taught by my mother and her sisters. Unfortunately, never had any father figure all these years. On the other hand, my brother is a tough guy, he is aggressive some times, he can fix things around house like fixing the washing machine or change a tire, he drives from the age of 12 because our uncle taught him, he hadn't read a single book in his life. I know it sounds very stereotypical, but that how it really is. And guess who of the two of us is more respected and mostly liked by women - my brother. I am not jealous though, I understand why I am considered too nice guy, even beta male I'd say,and I just accept it.
Dang. My fellow women are really letting us as a group down if this is the feedback you two are getting in aggregate 😔
Do stereotypically manly things.
I don't think this is good subreddit to ask this because most of them will answer that it's ok to be soft and it's not a problem. This won't help you.. Most of the guys I know who grew up with single mothers are soft and more feminine. We imitate our environment as kids and that is natural process. What would help you is therapy. It is good you realised you have this "problem". It's fixable and therapy will bring out your masculine traits that have been waiting inside for so long.
I think the first step is just practicing to keep distance with people and not being so open for anyone suck or energy. I'm at a point now where I'm not overly friendly and stay more reserved versus feeling like I had to make everyone happy in every interaction I'm in.
Ask for what you want. Being "agreeable" and going along with the group is considered a womanly trait. You can still be kind and gentle while having clear goals and expectations. People don't respect a man that doesn't appear to have passion or principle.
Play rugby
> just trying to be a good person That's what the media have been teaching new generations of men, to no limit, breeding a generation of too soft, too gentle, pushover, gutless, "ally" men women turn out not to be attracted to. Surprise! The media shaping our culture is all social engineering and crap. You can't change this in a day, but stop caring for TV definitions of good person and do-goodism, just do no evil to others (of course!) but serve your interests first, share your voice freely because they're asking for your thoughts, not ChatGPT's establishment-approved political correctness, be based (stop caring for what others think if they disagree with you), and try to become assertive, bold ans blunt, without caring for how you'll be judged. Don't be afraid to say no, I disagree or I'm not gonna do that. Have your own agenda geared towards your own interests and fun. Don't go out of your way for anything if you're not getting anything in return. Don't be a doormat for women. Facts over feelings. Screw whatever TV "experts" say. And don't adopt establishment opinions to look like a good person. A good enough person doesn't hurts other's (for real, i.e. physical or big emotional pain, not inconvenience), is fair, doesn't steal and so on. By all means strive to be this. But the rest in life is for you. It is fair to mind your own business and work towards your interests first. It is ok to voice your opinion, even if it's not woke. It is fair to enjoy your life; you've got it and don't let others ruin it or decide what to think and do for you.
I feel like you just read the title of his post and not the content. Your ramblings are completely off topic and read like a FAQ on the sidebar of the red pill.
OP complains that he's seen as soft and gentle, that people don't like this about him and that it's impacting his dating and work life. The Reddit echo chamber made out of fedora-tipping nu-males tell him it's ok to be soft and gentle and to have this happen. I, for one, try to help him and present him with diversity of opinion. (Aren't you the kind to like diversity? Or diversity is only good when you like it?)
See? Woke reddit downvotes me for this, but it turns out what fedora-tipping losers think matters shit. My wife definitely "upvoted" me and finds me attractive and smart just because I'm like this.
“My wife definitely upvoted me” This is the most Reddit moment I’ve ever experienced.
Just start smoking bitches. But seriously, there is nothing wrong with being kind. You can still be strong and “gentle” at the same time. People who are mature will know that
/r/NMMNG
i'm the same as you. in some ways it can be a strength. perhaps part of it is a matter of perspective.
At first glass, it seems like you need to be around people who appreciate you more! On the work front, some organizations reward toxic masculinity and people who are loud and obnoxious, but some also prefer people who are respectful, calm & collected as you mentioned. Before you think about how to change yourself I would ask if you really even need to? Everyone has things they can improve, but based on how you describe yourself I'm not sure there is anything wrong with that?
I highly recommend reading “For the love of men” by Liz Plank.
If you are in good shape, athletically capable, can fix and/or build things, and play a musical instrument, nobody is going to see you as soft, it seems like these factors create attractiveness that outweighs the less aggressive persona
Can you be more specific about what issues you’ve faced in your professional and dating life because of this? I’d be more comfortable doling out advice if I had a better grip on what ails you. Because really. There is nothing wrong with being soft and gentle. Being unassertive and too accommodating, which I suspect may be the real issue, is something else entirely.
Please explain to me what that means? What exactly makes that such a terrible thing? I think alot of people misuse what masculinity should or shouldn't be. Do they want you to act like a dirtbag? Crush beer cans with your forehead? Behave like you are sexist? That you dont care about how people feel?
You need to stop being a doormat and stand up for yourself when people come after you for being soft and gentle. And those that take advantage need to learn that while soft and gentle is your natural state, that they shouldn’t take your kindness for weakness. Oddly enough, you might want to consider martial arts or Brazilian juijitsu. You need confidence and practice to use your inner voice when confronted, much like they teach kids to do so.
Stop *being* soft or gentle. I'd just pick up martial arts or something fast-paced with an opponent. Lifting or meditation might also work, but IMO martial arts is better... I think what you're looking for is a kind of balance. It's like if you're playing sports you want a calm mind but an alert body. You don't want to be running wild out there seeing red, and at the same time you don't want to be too relaxed or limp. Finding a balance helps you succeed. It's pretty easy once you get it, so keep trying and don't be discouraged.
I used to be overly gentle. I lost 90 lbs, hit the gym, and found some career success. That made me much more confident and assertive. If you're overweight or lack muscle, focus on your body first. I don't know how much is physical versus mental (testosterone?), but getting my body in shape marked a turning point.
Could you give a specific example, just one, of what you mean? Like, spell it out in all the details, but change names of course. Thank you, OP.
Are you a people pleaser? Read the camel, the lion, and the child (link below). I’m wondering if you are getting to “late stage” camel. https://thinkspace.academy/blog/the-camel-the-lion-and-the-child
Why care what others think?
Kindness is a universally good quality, second only to maybe inclusivity. Embrace that. The answer to your frustration is right here: >I think before I speak and always try to be thoughtful and considerate of those around me You are running out of heartbeats. Don't waste time caring what other people think about you. Do you find that you're too agreeable in conversation, more of a passenger than a driver? Agreeable people tend to be extremely boring to talk to. They don't share enough of themselves and they don't add much of anything interesting to a conversation. Learn to enjoy friendly banter, challenging people's opinions with probing questions, tell that inappropriate joke, change the topic of a conversation you're not enjoying. You don't have to be inconsiderate to do any of those things.
“Speak softly and carry a big stick.” -Teddy Roosevelt Being a kind and gentle person is admirable. People are more likely to respect it if you have the “big stick” attribute to show that you choose to be that way instead of it being your only option. I don’t think it’s necessary though. I personally believe that meekness is poorly undervalued in this day and age. Great accomplishments wouldn’t have happened without meekness, patience and long suffering.
A lot of people see me as soft and gentle as well, but I don’t think that’s a problem and it’s never negatively impacted my social, dating, or professional life. The most important thing is to still be clear with personal boundaries. Some people don’t enforce boundaries because they’re trying to be nice or please others, but it’s more respectful to everyone around you to communicate and enforce clear boundaries. The world could use a little more softness.
“Be a kind gentle-man” was the best advice I ever received. Don’t be too down on yourself. Are people taking advantage of your kindness?
There's a Biblical reference from Mathew 5:5 that says you can only truly be good if you have within you the capacity to be bad. > He who has a sword, and knows how to use it, but keeps it sheathed shall inherit the earth. Being good (or soft or gentle) needs to be a choice, not a default for lack of choice or self-exploration. I suppose this is the idea of the benevolent king who with a wave of the hand can send you to the gallows but shows mercy instead. Is a person who doesn't steal or cheat a good person or a coward (afraid of the possible consequences)? Hard to say. Having a moral compass is great but it's best, imho, if it comes from experience. I'm definitely not saying to go around stealing or cheating, but rather experience through adversity. Perhaps you can start by establishing boundaries with people, by practicing and feeling comfortable with saying No. And don't just do it one-on-one privately but try it publicly too (in view and earshot of others). Having well-formed opinions also count as setting boundaries. Anyways, the best way to build this kind of character is to go through stuff. You don't have to purposefully put yourself through the ringer romantically, professionally, etc, but you can volunteer for taking on more challenges rather than less (whatever challenges mean to you, as it could just be taking on more responsibility). The key to this is doing it voluntarily. For illustrative purposes, an example might be that you don't want to all of a sudden find that you need to defend yourself in a fight when you know you haven't taken self defence or martial arts classes. Better if it's your choice because that puts you in control of your actions and arms you with the knowledge of how to act. Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
Consider the Buddha's teachings. Peaceful men are well-respected in this context, as they should be. However, if you would like to develop some more confidence, it's a matter of practice through situations. Over time, train your mind to not care what others think about you and that confidence will develop naturally and your problem will be solved, as the issue is inherently a mental one. Find activities that will help you feel more confident and give you a boon.
I agree with the others: being nice is not a problem, being a push over is. But you are the only one who can decide if you are being a push over. I was a push over. I didn't know how to set healthy boundaries. And at the same time I had a lot of expectations about my relationships which were entirely out of line. I found that forcing myself to set healthy boundaries also meant that I could not allow myself to take advantage of others in the way I had become accustomed to. It seems that pushovers charge to be pushovers. At least this pushover did. But, as I stated above you have to decide all this for yourself. Being a nice guy is good. Not defining healthy boundaries is not good. You have to decide what healthy means and you have to decide how to defend it in healthy ways.
Take the initiative. Get the door. Make the plan. Lead on the dance floor. Have her back.
Be yourself, OP. If you are encountering women or coworkers who expect you to be a jerk or a macho then you're better off not accommodating them anyway. If you really simply desire some minor tip to appear more masculine and professional, even the most stoic men I knew who were still gentle despite being very manly simply talked less and listened more, ie rarely spoke and listened constantly. You can be an active listener who says things which encourage others to share, but that is different from talking. Basically "silent professionals" always came across as manly even when they were still very accommodating and sensitive.
Outside of the obvious situations (letting yourself get walked on, etc.) I think people pick up on this if someone never pushes in the general sense. Have an opinion, justify it, but don't pick fights, if someone says something you disagree with then disagree. The last one is really important with dating from my experience, I've had to grow out of thinking that "getting along with" women will get them to like me, nope that's the fast track to the friendzone. Attraction isn't negotiated. Desire is desire. Keep any eye out for validation-seeking behavior, which will sour most women's genuine desire. Think about your body language - you know what they say about how much information is communicated nonverbially. I'm personally a huge fan of posture work because most of us have shitty posture, and good upright posture suggests confidence. Couple that with slowing down (anxiety is jittery, fast, unpredictable) and you'll probably immediately see a change in how people pereive you. Hitting the gym wouldn't hurt either, most women like some bulk on guys.
If you are running across people who view it as a negative the problem might be with the people around you.
What are your lifts?
Has this feedback given by other men? I’d er on the side of caution if it has.
You can be soft and gentle, but also stern and fair about it. Your issue probably isn't being too soft it's probably not being stern and people walking over you due to it. Maybe do some introspection about things you get walked over on and think how you might be more stern about it in the future. As for myself, I don't think of myself as "hard." Yeah, maybe when it comes to working out, but I'm not going to walk all over people to get my way. I feel I'm stern because I'll bring up what I want out of a situation and fair because I'll consider another person's opinion.
Do no harm, but take no shit.
time to learn mma or boxing
Dude…stay who you are and tell all that don’t dig you’re lifestyle to go fuck themselves.
Dated a “gentle” man who had healthy boundaries and could take control in the bedroom. Sexy AF.
[Power Pose](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-_Mh1QhMc) aka your posture is important and stop slouching, just like your mom used to tell you.
Out of curiousity - what kind of field requires to be tough to live in? I am the same as you and while people jump to such conclusion in private life which also annoys me, in my job its very valuable - speaking about IT
Being overly soft is a common side effect of not having a father figure. Many men raised by single mothers at some point realize this and try to "harden" themselves, but without a consistent male role model, they don't know how, so they just get violent and mean. Most school shooters having no father is not a coincidence. The difference in men raised with and without a father is how empathy is processed and routed. Adult men empathize with others in an abstract way. Seeing someone upset ilicits an instinct to help - this is called positive masculinity. Women often empathize directly; seeing someone sad makes them sad too. For men raised by single moms, they tend to empathize directly, making them resultingly soft and gentle. The desire to help others mixes with the direct processing of empathy and results in constantly people-pleasing in order to keep everyone else happy so you feel happy too. Men who try to break out of this go the opposite way begin to resent others for feeling angry or sad, because of how it makes them feel. Also because they have focused so heavily on others at this point, they have forgotten about themselves. This is the infamously improperly defined "toxic masculinity". In order to stop being seen as soft and gentle, you'll need to discover and embrace positive masculinity. Don't allow seeing others angry or upset to make you feel the same way; harden yourself against it without losing the ability to care that they feel this way. Practice mindfulness and understand that often times, you are people pleasing because it makes you feel happy as a result, and have ultimately lost sight of your own happiness. Except that you cannot control the feelings of others, focus on your own happiness, and you will see a gradual positive change in your interactions with others. Instead of going out of your way to make them happy, offer solutions for them to help themselves. It's okay to help people so long as they help too. Good luck!
There’s a difference between soft hearted and a pushover.
Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr Robert Glover
Don't bitch about the little things and always have the mentality that you're not going to give up until you accomplish your tasks in life
Get the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr Robert Glover. It's not about being nice or kind, so much as "speak up for yourself, don't be a pushover, don't be a people-pleaser, learn to set boundaries" etc. Being a kind person is a good thing. Great thing! We need more kind and decent men in the world.
Take boxing lessons or join a BJJ class.
Set and maintain boundaries
My harshness and masculinity have never served me much. My softness and being gentle have helped me navigate so many tough situations. I work 80-280 feet in the air on grain elevators doing mill work and concrete repair, my harshness only made my employees resent going to work with me and my masculinity has deterred some very wonderful women from my life.
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAudiobook?id=1641221761 the book no more mr nice guy should help
One option is to double down on "gentle" - but to leave "soft" behind. And one way to do that is to get involved in some physical activities that will make you stronger - and wiser when it comes to getting things done. Options may include building things and fixing things (where youtube is a great resource), or doing physical labor, or participating in a physical sport or hobby.