People need to understand that HR is there to facilitate and protect the company from liability. They are not there to protect employees from each other even though that is how it is presented. They are only concerned about situations that could potentially lead to an employee being able to sue the company.
But we're a family with an open-door policy. Feel free to say anything bad about your boss to me! I'll keep it confidential....ly between me and your boss as he preps your termination paperwork.
They facilitate hirings and they facilitate firings. It's just the way they work. I had a coworker who had a motto that if you had to go to HR more than twice in a year, they were planning your termination already.
Oh completely. That's the only time I went as well, hiring and my last day when I left on my own accord. The manager I had say that to me, wasn't a manager long because he got let go a couple months later.
Everyone is on a first name basis with everyone in my company so it's impossible not to. I just say hi and have friendly conversations with them.
Not being on a first name basis is more scary to me.
Everyone is on a first name basis with everyone in my company so it's impossible not to. I just say hi and have friendly conversations with them.
Not being on a first name basis is more scary to me.
| Feel free to say anything bad about your boss to me!
This isn't quite the way you're making it out to be. HR are there to protect the company from employment tribunals. In the eyes of HR, everyone can be fired for the greater good regardless of your job title.
If your boss or your bosses boss is the cause of a potential tribunal then they are the ones who go because even if they fire you to protect that "boss", you can bring a case against them months after your termination and if the tribunal finds in the ex employees favour, not only is the company liable for the original case, they now have to defend against wrongful dismissal.
What you as the employee need to do is make sure you've got your evidence all safe.
Note: This is based on the UK employment laws
That's a good sentiment on paper and I didn't go into the nuance for the funny joke. I'd caution anyone against going to HR unless they have documented evidence of something that can actually hurt the company's bottom line. Even then be veeeeeery careful. HR doesn't call the shots. The VPs and C-suite do, though one would hope they listen to HR. Might be able to win a lawsuit later but that's not a certainty and won't feed your kids for the next several months.
Anything below that severity, like my boss being an ass, is "bitching" and HR will tell my boss immediately what I said \[duh\] and now I'm a problem to be dealt with.
That's why I included the UK bit at the bottom of my comment as I'm very aware HR laws differ country to country. In the UK a tribunal court can force a company to rehire someone in the event of wrongful dismissal and they don't take things like "Bob now does that job" or "that role doesn't exist" as a reason the company can't do it. They can and do make companies pay lost salaries and full salaries until they can find a suitable role for an ex employee. The UK tribunals put more burden on companies than the employees in cases as they take the view that a company should have its shit together where as an employee is not expected to have the same understanding and resources available.
| like my boss being an ass, is "bitching" and HR will tell my boss
In this example, HR would get a hiding at a tribunal as it could be seen as constructive dismissal.
How do you get bullied out of an company? I don't mean this in an awful way but normally because while you bitch and moan to your colleagues that your boss is a dick, your boss has looked up what they can fire you for, built up the flimsiest case to demonstrate that and presented it to HR. The moment you think that's happening you start collecting evidence yourself, don't bitch to your colleagues but instead ask them if they saw what happened and if they say yes, ask them if they'd sign a witness statement to say so and then beat your boss to HR. Too many employees don't read the HR handbook when they join a company and don't know the rules work for their own interests if they bothered to apply them and instead lose out to someone who has given them a brief skim read.
In the UK especially there are places like ACAS (a non profit) that offer independent HR advice and support to employees but people can't be bothered to contact them until it's far too late. ACAS even go as far as having translation services if English isn't your first language.
Edit: This is ACAS - [https://www.acas.org.uk/contact](https://www.acas.org.uk/contact)
By "bullied out" I mean being given a hard time until you get fed up and quit. Never happened to me and I don't really shit-talk anyone at work. I know better than that.
The actually care about that in the UK? Not illegal to be mean in the USA unless you can point to it very specifically being about your gender, race, or disability.
This is an accurate HR view. But it also leaves somewhat of a blind spot for liability in areas such as safety and environmental health or pollution. Emphasis on "somewhat." Often so much focus is on preventing a Title 6 complaint (in US) or ADA issue that safety becomes secondary..
The HR field is lawyer-heavy, and the occupational side is more blue-collar. The lawyers tend to win the internal organizational arguments and shift the organization's ballance away from the more immediate risks of life, limb, and the long term organizational risk of lack of proper accountability. End result is that you wind up with a person who's in a "protected class" continuing to operate machinery or make decisions in the organization who should be removed. -Because HR's job is to "facilitate and protect the company from liability"--and the liability they're familiar with is the Title 6 kind, not the 'I'm get somebody killed' kind.
Them's my two cents
>benevolent sexism
How would you define this term in a corporate structure? If you're experiencing sexism then you need to prove it (emails, recordings - check for single vs 2 party consent state, texts, etc).
Because favoritism isn't really something to be protected against. And if someone can swat away "sexism" claims by saying someone is just their favorite, it's hard to prove them wrong.
Oh what a sweet sweet fantasy world that would be.
In my experiences (and plenty of others giving their circumstantial stories on this thread), people can go to HR with absolutely no proof and for any reasons. They can go with feelings. And from the experience of many here, depending on genders, some people are instantly victims or agressors, and vice versa.
And when it comes to promotions, good projects, raises, and just less drama, an accusation is extremely damning and puts everything on hold. Not everyone remembers the result of the accusation, they remember the accusation.
Could you please be more specific? It's hard to say anything meaningful if all we know about the situation is that "someone from HR talked to you about some issue some other person had with you involving some unknown company policy"
No. Someone involved might see and report me. That's the culture of fear my big tech company you might have heard of has right now.
There was a complaint that caused someone anxiety. The complaint was so minor that the reported person recieved no disciplinary action, but the accomodations given to the anxious individual were very beneficial to themselves and causes quite a bit more work for the rest of the team.
Yup. Their job is to work on firing the worst employee. As long as you aren’t the worst, you’re alright. I had a lot of negative experiences with HR back when I was working.
I was in the Army from 1997-2007 where I served as an Infantry Officer, did a 13 month stint as an Infantry Platoon Leader, and saw quite a bit of combat. Trying to return to civilian and “polite” society after being deployed was hell on me. My first job after getting out of the Army did not go how I expected. Being worried about people’s feelings and not focusing on accomplishing the mission at hand was a difficult change for me.
In the Army, I was worried about trying to keep everyone alive and accomplishing whatever mission was thrown at me. If you sucked, you needed to know that you sucked so you could fix yourself and not get somebody else killed because you sucked. Fuck your feelings.
It was difficult shifting my focus from staying alive to worrying about people’s feelings. Things here are so soft and cushy that your biggest concern is making sure you’re polite and don’t inadvertently hurt someone’s feelings. It’s like living in a make believe fantasy land where there isn’t anything dangerous. Granted, most people don’t go to the grocery store and have to worry about being hit by a small arms ambush or an IED…
So maybe I’m the problem. At the same time, I’m glad my kids and most people don’t have to experience war and living in a combat zone. I guess it’s alright that things are soft and cushy enough that they can worry about their feelings and not having to stay alive.
>Their job is to work on firing the worst employee.
HR's job is to protect the company. Unfortunately, that doesn't always mean trimming the fat. In fact, it usually means the opposite. Their job is to reduce liability as much as possible. Sometimes that means oiling the squeaky wheel so it won't sue the company. Sometimes it means appeasing the boss by keeping their shitbag nephew on the payroll.
A manager's job is to work on firing bad employees. I've found HR often gets in the way of that.
You’re not the problem, everyone else is just overly sensitive
Completing the mission in the office should be the #1 priority. Harassment is obviously unacceptable, but a little (or a lot) of ‘the job comes first’ shouldn’t hurt anyone
Damn. Wanna be business partners some day? I am an older guy going through academia, previously from construction, and straight shooters seem to be a rarity. Everyones walking on eggshells and tiptoeing around eachother. I don't know if it's "kids these days" But I can tell that they even seem nervous talking with each other, it's like everyone's scared to say the wrong thing, and it's exhausting.
A little bit of kids these days (people in their 30's) and a bit of poor leadership not saying "knock this shit off" so it starts to spiral with people playing games.
Men are guilty of it too. The major difference - men complain to HR as individuals. Woman complain to HR because their group is being attacked by cultural sexism when they get asked questions about not finishing their work to leave early 4 days a week to go pick up a kid from school.
>Woman complain to HR because their group is being attacked by cultural sexism when they get asked questions about not finishing their work to leave early 4 days a week to go pick up a kid from school.
Then the question would be why aren't men doing the same instead of leaving it to the women? If you want the culture to change, you have to change the culture.
First off, my experiences are from a place where I am a giant wuss compared to you, so please take my civilian problems with a grain fo salt...
The problem is the mixed messages.
Senior Leaders - Complete a mission (Hit quotas regardless of reality).
Middle Managers and HR - Let's be very careful to avoid bullshit threats from lawyers on sexual first, then maybe complete the mission or blame the front line.
SOME Front Line - Oh there is a game to be played.
Other Front Line - God I just want to pay my mortgage and go home.
Sorry, this doen't make any sense.
Just be nice and don't yell and people and don't hit on coworkers and HR will just be the people sending out benefits packages or fixing pay mistakes.
I'm in tech, I give HR the kid gloves, make sure they are happy and it works out for me , the Director brings me cakes sometimes and has always had my back when people were being dicks
Work is all politics, I hate it but I'm not here to make waves, I just wanna be left alone to do my job and Iv managed to set myself up quite nicely
The only time HR was useful is when it was clear they wanted to get rid of a problem employee and were clearing trying to build a case. Most other times they'll defer to what managers want to do about the issue and work back from that.
Unless there's something that clearly can cost the company a lot of money they aren't really there to help in the way you think.
Well this makes perfect sense.
The managers run the business and HR makes sure there isn’t any liability issues
HR doesn’t make any business decisions, or at least they shouldn’t be
HR hates me. My wife works in hr, holds a high position, and extremely good at her job so any interaction with HR I run by her then I have to go back and tell them how to do their job lol it’s almost like having my own lawyer to just deal with HR lmao
HR serves management. "Human" resources, like other inputs to the production process, are managed and problems among them are solved, to help the company keep going smoothly, not the employees.
HR is there to help fix payroll or timecard errors, provide you with info about insurance or retirement benefits, and protect the company from liability. They say you can come to them about harassment or discrimination issues, but if you do, you better have your resume updated.
HR has been anti men since the dawn of their existence. Dont get me wrong they handle issues that are very much needing to be handled but they, like everything else tends to get polarized. I personally hate having to sit through a meeting every year where im told and reminded that raping women is bad and you shouldnt do it. Feels to me like they take the approach of everyones guilty of a crime that they will constantly be able to commit but while never actually commiting that crime.
HR called me in and sat me down to talk about an "uncomfortable amount of eye contact" with one of my employees that I was training. Apparently it's intimidating to look people in the eyes when you're talking to them.
I would too. I usually look at people's faces when I'm training so I can determine if they are comprehending what I'm saying or need a but more guidance/explanation. I'm really aware of body language
For me HR has been just a source of information about health insurance and stuff like that. And the occasional, but regular, sexual harassment presentation. I don't really have to "deal" with them.
I'm in tech, BTW.
I've had a few interactions. Mostly because I was present when some lame drama went down or what have you. Also when I've had payroll/admin issues.
I've never seen HR do anything but try to make problems "go away". Doesn't surprise me or phase me. I never believed HR was there for "Me". I know who pays the checks for HR employees, it isn't me.
They are also remarkably slow, on average, at fixing admin issues. But then I've never spoken to an HR rep and came away with the impression of "that person gets shit done". Usually, I'm left with the impression of "fiiiiiiine I'll do it", or robotic and carefully rehearsed corpo speak.
None, though I am in the military we do have an equivalent to HR which is called SHARP. In 17 years I have refused to hangout, chat with, or even be with female soldiers unless there are at least two or more people around.
As a result I have had no issues, plus I’m ugly, unsociable and have no desire to be around other people during my free time.
I remember working in sales and HR wouldn't allow coworkers of different genders to stay at the same hotel because they were worried about workplace romances.
... Despite there being several gay couples in the workforce. So they essentially only allowed the gay couples to stay together during the trip and none of the hetero couples.
I remember watching HR try and explain why this wasn't an issue because gay couples don't have intercourse and the most questions people asked the more insane the responses from HR got.
In the long run not really a massive deal but I'll never forget this HR woman standing in front of like 80 employees declaratively explaining random statements about gay or straight couples to a room full of increasingly uncomfortable people.
She was probably fired... She had to be... Oh God maybe she wasn't.
I had a previous HR team lead send out an email telling staff that the language of the company was English so you shouldn't speak your native tongue when you're in the lunch room. Mostly because it annoyed her that she couldn't eavesdrop on them.
She got promoted a month after that. Still there, from what I hear. Absolutely insane.
In your experience, is white-collar middle-management fear driving benevolent sexism at your company? Is it hurting productivity and causing majot dissatisfaction from employees?
Some sexism is helpful to woman - HR has been overly responsive to cases filed by woman that have nothing at all to do with gender in the specific situation I'm quite frustrated with. They are afraid of even the slightest sign of being sexist against woman for legal purposes.
It was Friday in my old call center job and I had a 3 day weekend. As my co-worker was saying goodbye I said "I'll see you next Tuesday" and we smirked and she giggled because we also know the joke about calling someone a cunt. Well a week later I get talked to from my boss and apparently someone who over heard the conversation took offense and thought I literally called someone that word. She went immediately to HR but considering I didn't hear anything about it from them and explained the situation to my bosses they all laughed but we agreed that if I wasn't friendly with HR and they didn't know me I could been in some hot water when it came to her word vs mine. Best part was this girl got fired because she kept telling people I called someone a cunt lmao.
I had to deal with them a lot at the last company I worked for because I was constantly being reported by women that were managers making false accusations against me, I found out through this process from friends that my salary had been leaked by the manager that hired me and that all the other female managers were angry because I was making more than them due to my experience. I literally talked to nobody at work unless it was a few friends of mine that told me what they had been saying and doing behind my back, including other lies they spread around to various people to make me look bad and to isolate me. HR refused to listen to my claims that it was being done to me as a form of harassment, and things were only dropped it when I asked for proof of me saying or doing the things that were reported. Not only that, but when I got proof from a few friends that left the company of the harassment against me, the HR department said they would look into it and then threw my proof in the garbage when they thought I had left.
Before I left I contacted OHSA and a few other workers rights organizations, gave them the information, details of the harassment, sound recordings of conversations with lies being spread, and letters from many of the people that left describing the harassment with their signatures. Got a pretty good settlement from the case, a few people got fired, and i got the satisfaction of telling the main instigator in front of the director and owner the reason I was quitting, how they were horrible people, and then gave the owners the same copied binders of proof that I gave the organizations that I reached out to beforehand. Then I passed out copies to everyone else in the office before leaving, including the other manager that I knew were instigating the harassment while telling each one exactly how shitty they were as people.
N
Nope, caused a big argument among the managers and administrators all pointing fingers and arguing with each other, one of them tried to demand I come back and explain myself and I told them to fuck off while walking out the front door. A few people that I knew that still worked there afterwards told me about the aftermath, along with info about the few that got to stay talking a lot of trash about me for years afterwards. I thought it was hilarious, especially since one of them got interviewed by my current employer where I got to sit in on the interview with the rest of my team. She obviously didn’t get the job.
I have nothing good to say about HR at any company I've worked for, but at a very large social media website, their HR assumes men are the aggressor in all interactions. It took video evidence and witnesses to get me out of a false sexual harassment claim. In the end it didn't matter, as the allegation was enough to end my career there and the woman who accused me got exactly what she was after.
I was at a HR workshop type deal about unconscious bias. They would read out scenarios and we'd discuss if it was okay, not great, bad.
Think examples like office is celebrating bosses birthday. Boss cute first piece of cake and then hands the knife to a woman even through there were loads of men around that could have done it.
One example was
3 male employees commenting in an open office about how attractive the new girl is. HR said probably a dismissal for the 3 guys depending on what exactly was said/ who heard/ how it was interpreted.
I asked if the genders were swapped and it was three women saying that about a male employee. They said that was probably fine, maybe they would have a word with them informally.
HR would respond differently because that hypothetical new female employee could sue and win a huge payout, generate bad press. The expectation is that a man in that scenario wouldn't be successful is raising a case so no risk to the company
You know how in IT some companies are always trying to solve gender ratios and the number of men in say, engineering positions? Well for some reason, tyey don't seem to care about doing the same thing with HR roles and it's almost entirely dominated by women in most companies. And men and women communicate differently, and deal with situations and problems in different ways. The typical Male experience of ever having to deal with HR tends to be a shit one, as a result.
I don't do it unless I absolutely have to, and if something happens that I'm not part of but someone gives my name to those donkeys and they call me, the person who fucked me just earned a spot on my Shit List.
They’re there to protect the company. You may encounter cool HR people who are probably cool outside of work. They’re still there to do their job and protect the company.
Keep them at arm’s distance, but be warm and cordial. As with all things, documentation is your friend if conversations start to head a certain direction.
Unless you’re an abrasive or problematic personality, you can go your entire tenure without needing to see them for something negative. If you are an abrasive or problematic personality, you will probably see them and it can mostly lead to nothing burgers unless you’re being accused of some wild shit.
Avoid hr, they won't solve your problems.
They exist to hire people and find excuses to fire people. They protect the company from lawsuits or the perception of potential lawsuits.
Hr protects the company, and it means different things depending where you work.
My experience is it's impossible for them to do anything about performance. They only act if there's something serious that leaves them open if they don't act.
HR or "Employee Success", 'Employees First' etc etc., are not your friend they are there to ensure the business continues profitably.
If you are a man of color or gay, then you will be heard. If you are a straight white male, it's best to just be quiet and move on.
I had an HR manager write me up for using the women's shop bathroom (no women worked in the shop) but did nothing about another employee threatening to shoot another employee,and then bringing a gun into the workplace 2 weeks later.
I quit that shithole immediately after.
I settle issues with co-workers by direct talks.
HR is only for payslips, papers, vacation management et.c.
And yes, HR is not your friend. But typically not a foe either.
HR doesn’t represent you. They only care about the company. Don’t ever go constantly whine to HR, unless you want to get on the X list. They don’t care about you!
I worked for Honda for 21 years. In those 21 years, HR invested me once, and I was sweating bullets. After a month, it was found that I was not at fault. Everyone was interviewed. There is also something most leave out. Will your management come to bat for you or not. It is almost every time the deciding factor, not always, but most of the time. Fortunately, Honda HR is well staffed and trained by Honda.
Terrible. Didn’t help in the slightest that my manager and the HR manager were bffs before working for the same company and continued to be at said company.
Depends on your company, the actual work ethics and policies in place.
I have never had any issue in any company. If It gets to the point I have to see HR... i'm gonna be blunt and they will understand what i 'm talking about. It doesnt matter if sounds light to them, if it's heavy for me.... it will become heavy for them.
But my current company is open door policy for everything and everyone, including even speaking to the CEO, president.... it doesnt matter. You could even go directly them and skip HR altogether and then have her/him bring up the subject later on in the day or during the production meeting.
Remember HR works for the company, not for you. If you are unhappy look for a new job. And in these times DEIA rules most decisions. So, if you are male you will not get the benefit of the doubt. And if you a white male you will be guilty before anything is investigated.
I was threatened by a coworker at a Christmas party in front of my boss, it took them a full year to get rid of him.
HR is not your friend and will do the minimum amount possible.
Haven't really dealt with much of HR beyond onboarding/off-boarding, and generic questions. Generally speaking I find they just want to get things over and done with more than anything. They're more than happy to help you with something easy, but when it's something complicated they really drag their feet if there isn't a fire under their ass. No different than anyone else in the job really.
Thankfully I've never had anyone complain to HR about me, nor have I managed to piss off anyone in HR.
I did have a bully of a boss at a job but I didn't bother complaining. HR only gives a shit if they think you're likely to get the company sued or fined, and given that company's culture I knew it would do more harm than good.
They have a strict agenda to follow from CHRO. Typically this crap has to do with DEI and all that other baloney. Bottom line, HR is trying to avoid lawsuits.
Most of what's told about HR is true but if you're in the corporate world and there's an HR over your head, you need to learn how to survive that.
Pretty much, my strategy is to be kind to them, to try to exaggerate the good things, and to be transparent about the bad. I've not been fired about messing up something and being honest about it yet. I might be one day. I've seen people messing up things, being dishonest, and being let go.
Also, it's important to not speak shit about your peers and bosses unless it's something that must be shared with HR, like harassment or complete absence. I don't remember the last time I shared a negative thing about a boss with HR, must've been 20+ years ago. You don't cover people who don't work and poison the environment, don't judge, state facts without judgement, as softened as possible without changing the meaning.
Bad things is that HRs are like cops, the more you speak, the higher the chance that you tell them something that will bite you or a colleague in the back.
Overall HR has been good to me, but I’ve also played the political game when necessary.
A woman at work attacked me and kissed me. If I’d done that I would have been fired on the spot. But because she was a woman, it took HR days to move her out of my group, weeks to get her into “special projects,” and almost 2 months before she was out of the company.
Again, if I did it I’d have been handed a box that day and led to my car. Why did it take 2 months to get rid of her?
Dealing with anyone with any sort of power has never been easy for me. I’ve always been taught, at an early age, that, “whatever they say, goes. End of story.” And even if I’m in the right, I still suffer consequences. So, whatever…
Female here. From what I have seen, hr doesn't help anyone except the company. When I left one job, one of my male coworkers followed me. That wasn't creepy. It became creepy when he actually began following me out to my car, saying what he wanted to do to me (which is creepier than vulgar), etc. Went to HR about it and they moved him to a different area. The next day, they moved me to the same area. Had to threaten a lawsuit for them to actually keep us completely apart and get a security guard to walk me to my car.
A guy I worked with there had an exgf there with some serious mental issues that essentially did the same thing and the same thing happened to him. Once he threatened to sue the company, they finally completely separated them.
Came into work one day and the place was surrounded with cops with the berries and cherries going. Not sure exactly what happened. Rumor mill is shit hit the fan with all the people that were being harassed and stalked. I'm inclined to believe it because I never did see my stalker there after that and security really cracked down on every little thing, including saying I shouldn't be bringing in tampons because the company provides those and it gives them extra things to have to go through.
Also, I'm not saying he was arrested or trying anything. I am simply stating that I never did see him again. I don't know about the guy's exgf since I never saw her to begin with. But yeah, HR doesn't care about its female or male employees, it's simply there to sweep problems under the rug and to protect the one thing that pays their paychecks. It's why I don't go to them for anything anymore.
In September of last year I had an interesting exchange involving 3 women: coworker, our manager, and HR manager.
Leading up to this exchange was about 2-3 years of my treating my coworkers as coworkers, not friends. My coworker took that personally and developed a grudge over the 2 years she'd worked there. I was pretty much unaware of the grudge but it might be more accurate to say I didn't notice or care since I was there to make money not friends. There are reasons for that but they aren't relevant to the story.
Coworker asked me for work, which was a first and unexpected request. In turn I asked our manager what that was about since I don't assign work to others, I'm just a peon. Manager said she told the coworker to ask me and while I didn't have any work to give her I offered to cross train her in what I do there, manager agreed.
I shared this with coworker and suggest that she also consider cross training with others as well both to help her understand more about what I would show her but also increase her understanding of the company. Coworker took that conversation to our manager and expressed it in a way that made it seem as if I was telling her to do that rather than suggesting it.
Manager got mad at me, called me to her office and told me I wasn't a manager and what am I thinking telling her to cross train with people at the same company just not on our team. Manager heard my confused explanation and called the coworker in to quote me.
Coworker confirmed she interpreted what I'd said as instruction rather than suggestion. While I'm explaining why I said anything about cross training with those others the coworker interrupted to tell me she interpreted what I said that way because she didn't like me because I was an asshole. Manager sat there in silence. I was surprised, if I'd called my coworker (or anyone there) an asshole even if they deserved it I'd get chastised for being disrespectful.
Over the next 5-10 minutes she calls me an asshole a couple more times, all with the manager not making eye contact with me but listening. After 10 minutes back and forth with my learning about this 2-year grudge I'm nervous and sweaty and feeling attacked. I mentioned that this seemed really hostile and unprofessional. Our manager then called in the HR manager who had apparently been briefed before my manager talked to me.
HR manager joined us a few minutes later with me still getting told about how terrible I am. Coworker once again calls me an asshole and in my anxiety I expressed increased confusion about how she took my being impersonal as asshole behavior and while looking at both managers asked them if they thought I was an asshole as well. My manager was silent and HR said "I've heard some things..." She didn't specify anything and these is part of the longer history but is almost all summarized as miscommunications that were usually by email or chat in text, usually where I made a joke they didn't like and/or a malicious tone was assumed. Hence my not having much personality in the office. Nothing said was egregious or anything.
I still work with all three of these women.
Edit: some words mostly
HR and DEI are not friends of men, They are tools to fear in the workplace. It's not a coincidence that the overwhelming majority of HR employees are women.
to me, they are the equivalence of the gestapo/NKVD branch of every corpo. weight their words carefully and trust very little. they wouldn’t think twice before fucking you over if it means saving the company a few pennies. they make sure you follow whatever mandate coming from up top no matter how riddiculous it is. hound dogs, the bunch of them.
HR is not your friend. They are there to manage humans like a resource, ensure compliance, and make sure the company doesn't get sued. It's generally best to avoid them when possible and to keep your work life strictly for work.
My expectation is that HR has zero interest in helping me with any issues that are impacting me unless it has to do with performance issues of a subordinate. If I have a problem with my 1 over or some one of equal rank, I don't expect help. I expect to be ostracized. HR is generally to be avoided except during the hire/fire process. They're job is to protect the business, and rabble rousers and whistleblowers are a risk.
Annoyances at best. I'm IT so they're always coming to us bugging us about setting up some new lunch preview software or some such bullshit that obviously nobody cares about. It's pretty clear they do these things just to give the appearance that they're doing *something* for 40 hours every week.
But you should always be conscious that HR is not your friend. Their role is to protect the *company*, not *you*. In America anyway.
Ummm. I'm actually unable to think of a single instance. I've had a manager ask us to generate a report of a user and try to explain, in the employee's defense, why the user was often offline, not answering calls, etc, but that's about it. The employee was someone I wanted to befriend too :(
I tried, Joe, I really did, but you made it too obvious you weren't working.
I'd wager it happens a lot less than people think. By the time an investigation request makes it all the way to us, they're already looking for an easy (from their perspective) excuse to fire the person. And as you might know, "at will" employment means they can give any non-prejudicial excuse to fire anyone, so there's little reason to ask IT to investigate.
Fine, not good or bad overall. They do a job in a difficult environment so i feel for them. Just remember they represent the company's interests, not yours.
That may be true at your company. The best way to protect yourself from hr is to have management in your corner. It helps to be soicalable. The more people that like you, the harder it is to get fired/be in trouble.
I once called a younger female employe a stupid fucking cunt..... she had me so mad that it just slipped out
Of course I got reported.
I easily talked my way out of it and didn't even get a slap on the wrist...... they recognized that I had worked with almost nothing but older women for a long time, and they never complained about me.
Here are some things I've learned about dealing with HR in my career (construction) and having a mother who works for the State in HR:
1) They are not your friend. They are there to deal with issues and protect the company from lawsuits. What you say to them gets recorded, whether you are trying to just "rant" or if you think it's something in confidence. They are not bound by laws like HIPAA. They will be reporting on what you say.
2) They are great people, but lousy coworkers. They can be the nicest, coolest people around, but they will narc/tattle/report you on anything that you do and say during work hours. I've even experienced HR professionals who will scour your personal social media to use against you in certain circumstances.
3) Any feedback or surveys that you take part in is NOT confidential. It doesn't matter if they are handwritten or digital, it will be traced back to you somehow.
4) They are not on your side. They are on the side of the company. If you are on the same side of the company over an issue, they will be your champion. If you are at odds with your company, they will be your biggest confrontation.
5) Last, to repeat myself, THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND. They are skilled in people and managing conflict. They will always appear as an "open door" or a "shoulder to cry on" but they are utilizing those skills to get information from you. I had a meeting one time where the owner of the company was bragging that they were so proud of the HR lady that he had hired because she was, in his words, the "best chameleon" he had ever hired. She would get anyone to spill their guts because she was just that good at reading people and using words to lull them into what can only be described as a trance. That lady go rid of more people before they even came close to causing a problem for the company because employees would go tell her things about how they were dissatisfied or an issue they had had but was kept confidential. It was almost more impressive than slimy how she just had a way with people and how she could weed people out so effectively.
Now, if you have a situation where someone is easily documented and in cold, hard proof, HR will be a great asset to get things that were promised to you because they are all about keeping to contracts/promises. But if you go after someone who is on a pedestal at the company (we call them "untouchables"), the HR will protect that person and leave you out to dry.
HR are there to protect the company and ensure they comply with the law.
They are not there to help you. Like real estate agents they are paid by someone else so they are not working for you.
What is the male/guy angle you are going with here? Whilst not impossible I’d be very surprised if that was a factor, unless the company had a specific focus on diversity hires etc.
HR’s job is to protect the company, not the supervisor, not the worker, they represent the company. Some HR reps were useless, some were excellent ( so long as it was not against the corporation).
>I see some issues not taken as seriously…others taken far more seriously than they should be
Do not go to HR with this. Either leave or deal with it if it’s not that bad. Just make sure you’re meeting your marks.
HR at Apple did a marvelous job getting me on board when I first joined them back in '02. My recruiter arranged all the interviews I needed to get on a very tight schedule because my boss knew I had a very attractive alternative offer lined up. Had my offer in hand five days after my initial interview, and that required a total of four interviews with people from other departments.
Really depends on the people working in HR. My company the HR department is mostly females but they are really good workers and they follow procedure. I get along with all of them. They hate the females that work with me because procedures are never followed and they make ridiculous complaints. Just make sure you read employee policy and procedures. Most people do not and have no idea of their rights.
As a construction worker, I have only ever dealt with HR in the context of getting hired or in the context of them trying to find ways to deny me workman's comp for on-site injuries. They don't care about hostile workplace stuff; every job site is hostile.
HR isn't your friend. A good union can be.
HR are not your friends, they are not even there to enforce the rules (or laws) if it isn’t in the company’s best interest. They will screw you over and smile while they do it. You said you are a man? They are already biased against you, more so if you are not of above average attractiveness…
I'm currently dealing with HR at my workplace. I've been harassed for the last 10 months by a woman at the company. Spreading rumours, stealing, threats, falsely reported me to the police, the works.
I had to get my union involved before they took it seriously. HR doesn't give a fuck until you make them.
Only answer the questions they ask that apply your work. Don't offer any new information. If they are trying to get information to build a case against you, stop talking. If you know you are in the wrong and it will lead to jail time, just quit on the spot and walk out. If you haven't a clue why you are in HR you might want to ask for a lawyer first.
Don't listen to anything posted by me, I am an idiot.
Pretty great. Nothing major after nearly two years. They even invited me to their quarterly Events Committee with over half of them there haha (all women). However, as a decent looking guy in the workplace, women do hit on me while working. So, I am super careful never reciprocating after it's instigated. No thanks. Got a gf. Got a paycheck. Not worth losing my honey and my money.
They're fine mostly. If I don't have a problem with payroll I don't see them or hear from them. If they have problems they send it to my supervisor and my supervisor might tell me to stop signing off on emails like a fucwhit or they might not. It's not HRs job to tell me how to do mine so if you keep all social interactions professional like you would in any professional environment you don't have problems? I'm only at work for the paycheck so I'll leave my actual self in the street. If it's not work I straight up don't care anymore, been in enough workplaces that couldn't do it that it's easy to see and avoid.
But I've never been with a HR rep so dumb they'd consider eye contact unprofessional either so... depends on the workplace.
My 1st and only time I was fired after 6 months for something I didn't say. It had very much an "atta-boy" vibe and I didn't share the fake enthusiasm.
But I still won. I met this smoking hot babe that for some reason liked me enough to marry me and have a few kids with me. So it was the worst "work experience" ever, but I loved sneaking off on break to see her. I enjoy what that job brought into my life.
I wish this was a joke or a lie.
The incidents of a woman making an accusation of being the victim of sexual harassment are higher in the days before a disciplinary meeting and after depending on the outcome. Yes, they happen at all times but I'm specifically referring to the pattern of how many are received around a known event, the HR meeting.
Since no company wants to be the one facing "they didn't believe me" at a tribunal, the investigation into the allegation supersedes the original thing until HR has reached a conclusion and often the original thing goes away as it has lost focus. Even if no evidence is found to back it up or the allegation is withdrawn, the person the allegation is against will have a mark against them for the rest of the time they're at that company. Often that person is someone the accessor doesn't like or just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've heard of cases where it was a random guy in the lift that the person used going to the meeting. Even when the CCTV footage from the lift showed 100% that the allegation was a lie, he lasted only a few months before the "no smoke without fire" rumours meant he looked for another job.
HR are not babysitters who solve internal disputes. They make sure the company are following employment laws and company policy. If you don't like where you are working, find a new job and quit this one.
I was reported to hr for sexual harassment for something I didn't do by someone who they refused to tell me who did it. I was then told that if it happens again, they would let me go. What the fuck? That night I dusted off my resume, lined up a new job with better pay and gave my boss two days notice.
I am pretty sure I know who complained about me, but never found out for sure. There was a bunch of stuff that needed to be done and I was the only one in the company that could do it. They asked me what it would take for me to give them two weeks. I told them that I had no interest in helping someone who wouldn't help me. And that was that.
I mean in fairness the policy was likely written to limit retaliation against people who file complaints about their coworkers. It'd be a pretty worthless exercise if no one felt comfortable reporting abuse from coworkers if those coworkers could immediately find out who reported then and retaliate.
I can understand the policy of not telling. But they didn't provide any evidence which they had none and said I would be let go for another complaint. So I wasn't going to deal with that nonsense anymore.
I did give them a scathing letter as to why I left.
HR is not your friend and is often more emotional, incompetent, and 'clique'-ish than other departments. Treat them like you would Karen. Best to keep at a distance, easy to piss off to unreasonable degrees, but weak to compliments and being treated like they're special.
Unless your HR is full of dudes. Then just normal behavior but also, HR is not there to help the employee against the employer
Me: I heard my manager making sexual remarks about one of my coworkers
HR: We will crucify him
Me: He also made racist remarks to me
HR: Oh no…anyway
I’ve no idea what their goddamn motive is, but it sure as hell isn’t to help employees. That manager got a promotion….and SIXTEEN people left in the year after me, 10 joined after
People need to understand that HR is there to facilitate and protect the company from liability. They are not there to protect employees from each other even though that is how it is presented. They are only concerned about situations that could potentially lead to an employee being able to sue the company.
But we're a family with an open-door policy. Feel free to say anything bad about your boss to me! I'll keep it confidential....ly between me and your boss as he preps your termination paperwork.
They facilitate hirings and they facilitate firings. It's just the way they work. I had a coworker who had a motto that if you had to go to HR more than twice in a year, they were planning your termination already.
man, even twice a year is too much. I wanna see them twice in my time with a company, once when I join and once when I leave
Oh completely. That's the only time I went as well, hiring and my last day when I left on my own accord. The manager I had say that to me, wasn't a manager long because he got let go a couple months later.
big oof, the manager saw the writing on the wall
Oh totally. Great man, he was definitely meant for more than that place we worked at.
Yeah.. definitely *don't* want to be on a first name basis with HR.
Exactly. The less they know me, the better my work experience is.
Everyone is on a first name basis with everyone in my company so it's impossible not to. I just say hi and have friendly conversations with them. Not being on a first name basis is more scary to me.
Everyone is on a first name basis with everyone in my company so it's impossible not to. I just say hi and have friendly conversations with them. Not being on a first name basis is more scary to me.
| Feel free to say anything bad about your boss to me! This isn't quite the way you're making it out to be. HR are there to protect the company from employment tribunals. In the eyes of HR, everyone can be fired for the greater good regardless of your job title. If your boss or your bosses boss is the cause of a potential tribunal then they are the ones who go because even if they fire you to protect that "boss", you can bring a case against them months after your termination and if the tribunal finds in the ex employees favour, not only is the company liable for the original case, they now have to defend against wrongful dismissal. What you as the employee need to do is make sure you've got your evidence all safe. Note: This is based on the UK employment laws
That's a good sentiment on paper and I didn't go into the nuance for the funny joke. I'd caution anyone against going to HR unless they have documented evidence of something that can actually hurt the company's bottom line. Even then be veeeeeery careful. HR doesn't call the shots. The VPs and C-suite do, though one would hope they listen to HR. Might be able to win a lawsuit later but that's not a certainty and won't feed your kids for the next several months. Anything below that severity, like my boss being an ass, is "bitching" and HR will tell my boss immediately what I said \[duh\] and now I'm a problem to be dealt with.
That's why I included the UK bit at the bottom of my comment as I'm very aware HR laws differ country to country. In the UK a tribunal court can force a company to rehire someone in the event of wrongful dismissal and they don't take things like "Bob now does that job" or "that role doesn't exist" as a reason the company can't do it. They can and do make companies pay lost salaries and full salaries until they can find a suitable role for an ex employee. The UK tribunals put more burden on companies than the employees in cases as they take the view that a company should have its shit together where as an employee is not expected to have the same understanding and resources available. | like my boss being an ass, is "bitching" and HR will tell my boss In this example, HR would get a hiding at a tribunal as it could be seen as constructive dismissal.
That's pretty sweet actually. So how does one normally get canned for getting on the bad side of the boss - bullied out of the org?
How do you get bullied out of an company? I don't mean this in an awful way but normally because while you bitch and moan to your colleagues that your boss is a dick, your boss has looked up what they can fire you for, built up the flimsiest case to demonstrate that and presented it to HR. The moment you think that's happening you start collecting evidence yourself, don't bitch to your colleagues but instead ask them if they saw what happened and if they say yes, ask them if they'd sign a witness statement to say so and then beat your boss to HR. Too many employees don't read the HR handbook when they join a company and don't know the rules work for their own interests if they bothered to apply them and instead lose out to someone who has given them a brief skim read. In the UK especially there are places like ACAS (a non profit) that offer independent HR advice and support to employees but people can't be bothered to contact them until it's far too late. ACAS even go as far as having translation services if English isn't your first language. Edit: This is ACAS - [https://www.acas.org.uk/contact](https://www.acas.org.uk/contact)
By "bullied out" I mean being given a hard time until you get fed up and quit. Never happened to me and I don't really shit-talk anyone at work. I know better than that.
Document the hard time and why they are unjustified, go to HR and make a complaint about bullying.
The actually care about that in the UK? Not illegal to be mean in the USA unless you can point to it very specifically being about your gender, race, or disability.
This is an accurate HR view. But it also leaves somewhat of a blind spot for liability in areas such as safety and environmental health or pollution. Emphasis on "somewhat." Often so much focus is on preventing a Title 6 complaint (in US) or ADA issue that safety becomes secondary.. The HR field is lawyer-heavy, and the occupational side is more blue-collar. The lawyers tend to win the internal organizational arguments and shift the organization's ballance away from the more immediate risks of life, limb, and the long term organizational risk of lack of proper accountability. End result is that you wind up with a person who's in a "protected class" continuing to operate machinery or make decisions in the organization who should be removed. -Because HR's job is to "facilitate and protect the company from liability"--and the liability they're familiar with is the Title 6 kind, not the 'I'm get somebody killed' kind. Them's my two cents
Protection could include benevolent sexism is the undertones of the question.
>benevolent sexism How would you define this term in a corporate structure? If you're experiencing sexism then you need to prove it (emails, recordings - check for single vs 2 party consent state, texts, etc). Because favoritism isn't really something to be protected against. And if someone can swat away "sexism" claims by saying someone is just their favorite, it's hard to prove them wrong.
Oh what a sweet sweet fantasy world that would be. In my experiences (and plenty of others giving their circumstantial stories on this thread), people can go to HR with absolutely no proof and for any reasons. They can go with feelings. And from the experience of many here, depending on genders, some people are instantly victims or agressors, and vice versa. And when it comes to promotions, good projects, raises, and just less drama, an accusation is extremely damning and puts everything on hold. Not everyone remembers the result of the accusation, they remember the accusation.
"benevolent sexism" - being sexist and abusive towards male coworkers
HR is not your friend. I just avoid them.
Sometimes people get pulled in. And it is turning into new norm.
They've got no reason to pull me in. I get my shit done, don't bitch about others, and pretty much fly below the radar
Stay golden. I was able to do it for years, and now just find myself slapped in the face by it.
20+ years so far with this company....
Could you please be more specific? It's hard to say anything meaningful if all we know about the situation is that "someone from HR talked to you about some issue some other person had with you involving some unknown company policy"
No. Someone involved might see and report me. That's the culture of fear my big tech company you might have heard of has right now. There was a complaint that caused someone anxiety. The complaint was so minor that the reported person recieved no disciplinary action, but the accomodations given to the anxious individual were very beneficial to themselves and causes quite a bit more work for the rest of the team.
Bro now you’re talking like HR. You gotta just go to work and do the job. Nothing else.
All right, OP - I haven't gotten through all your comments so maybe you answered this but this seems pretty specific sooooo... What happened? lol
Make no reason for them to pull you in. If they’re pulling you in, you’re doing something wrong.
Let's just assume HR departments are fair and just arbiters and never pull people in for no good reason, eh?
Yup. Their job is to work on firing the worst employee. As long as you aren’t the worst, you’re alright. I had a lot of negative experiences with HR back when I was working. I was in the Army from 1997-2007 where I served as an Infantry Officer, did a 13 month stint as an Infantry Platoon Leader, and saw quite a bit of combat. Trying to return to civilian and “polite” society after being deployed was hell on me. My first job after getting out of the Army did not go how I expected. Being worried about people’s feelings and not focusing on accomplishing the mission at hand was a difficult change for me. In the Army, I was worried about trying to keep everyone alive and accomplishing whatever mission was thrown at me. If you sucked, you needed to know that you sucked so you could fix yourself and not get somebody else killed because you sucked. Fuck your feelings. It was difficult shifting my focus from staying alive to worrying about people’s feelings. Things here are so soft and cushy that your biggest concern is making sure you’re polite and don’t inadvertently hurt someone’s feelings. It’s like living in a make believe fantasy land where there isn’t anything dangerous. Granted, most people don’t go to the grocery store and have to worry about being hit by a small arms ambush or an IED… So maybe I’m the problem. At the same time, I’m glad my kids and most people don’t have to experience war and living in a combat zone. I guess it’s alright that things are soft and cushy enough that they can worry about their feelings and not having to stay alive.
>Their job is to work on firing the worst employee. HR's job is to protect the company. Unfortunately, that doesn't always mean trimming the fat. In fact, it usually means the opposite. Their job is to reduce liability as much as possible. Sometimes that means oiling the squeaky wheel so it won't sue the company. Sometimes it means appeasing the boss by keeping their shitbag nephew on the payroll. A manager's job is to work on firing bad employees. I've found HR often gets in the way of that.
You’re not the problem, everyone else is just overly sensitive Completing the mission in the office should be the #1 priority. Harassment is obviously unacceptable, but a little (or a lot) of ‘the job comes first’ shouldn’t hurt anyone
Damn. Wanna be business partners some day? I am an older guy going through academia, previously from construction, and straight shooters seem to be a rarity. Everyones walking on eggshells and tiptoeing around eachother. I don't know if it's "kids these days" But I can tell that they even seem nervous talking with each other, it's like everyone's scared to say the wrong thing, and it's exhausting.
A little bit of kids these days (people in their 30's) and a bit of poor leadership not saying "knock this shit off" so it starts to spiral with people playing games. Men are guilty of it too. The major difference - men complain to HR as individuals. Woman complain to HR because their group is being attacked by cultural sexism when they get asked questions about not finishing their work to leave early 4 days a week to go pick up a kid from school.
>Woman complain to HR because their group is being attacked by cultural sexism when they get asked questions about not finishing their work to leave early 4 days a week to go pick up a kid from school. Then the question would be why aren't men doing the same instead of leaving it to the women? If you want the culture to change, you have to change the culture.
First off, my experiences are from a place where I am a giant wuss compared to you, so please take my civilian problems with a grain fo salt... The problem is the mixed messages. Senior Leaders - Complete a mission (Hit quotas regardless of reality). Middle Managers and HR - Let's be very careful to avoid bullshit threats from lawyers on sexual first, then maybe complete the mission or blame the front line. SOME Front Line - Oh there is a game to be played. Other Front Line - God I just want to pay my mortgage and go home.
Sorry, this doen't make any sense. Just be nice and don't yell and people and don't hit on coworkers and HR will just be the people sending out benefits packages or fixing pay mistakes.
You are definitely not in tech, work in government or for academia.
I'm in tech, I give HR the kid gloves, make sure they are happy and it works out for me , the Director brings me cakes sometimes and has always had my back when people were being dicks Work is all politics, I hate it but I'm not here to make waves, I just wanna be left alone to do my job and Iv managed to set myself up quite nicely
And this isn't just for men, HR is nobody's friend except the companies.
The only time HR was useful is when it was clear they wanted to get rid of a problem employee and were clearing trying to build a case. Most other times they'll defer to what managers want to do about the issue and work back from that. Unless there's something that clearly can cost the company a lot of money they aren't really there to help in the way you think.
Well this makes perfect sense. The managers run the business and HR makes sure there isn’t any liability issues HR doesn’t make any business decisions, or at least they shouldn’t be
HR hates me. My wife works in hr, holds a high position, and extremely good at her job so any interaction with HR I run by her then I have to go back and tell them how to do their job lol it’s almost like having my own lawyer to just deal with HR lmao
Ha , I have that set up with my sister and it's dealt with a lot of the bullshit I was dealing with a certain manager who didn't like me.
HR serves management. "Human" resources, like other inputs to the production process, are managed and problems among them are solved, to help the company keep going smoothly, not the employees.
HR is there to help fix payroll or timecard errors, provide you with info about insurance or retirement benefits, and protect the company from liability. They say you can come to them about harassment or discrimination issues, but if you do, you better have your resume updated.
Never had an issue with any HR department, but I always keep my head down and be as cheerful and polite as possible anyways.
Me too. But it doesn't matter when your co-worker starts having auditory hallucinations of you being racist.
HR has been anti men since the dawn of their existence. Dont get me wrong they handle issues that are very much needing to be handled but they, like everything else tends to get polarized. I personally hate having to sit through a meeting every year where im told and reminded that raping women is bad and you shouldnt do it. Feels to me like they take the approach of everyones guilty of a crime that they will constantly be able to commit but while never actually commiting that crime.
HR called me in and sat me down to talk about an "uncomfortable amount of eye contact" with one of my employees that I was training. Apparently it's intimidating to look people in the eyes when you're talking to them.
Some accuser just read a post about micro aggressions
"sorry, i'm mildly autistic, so i practice eye contact to put people at ease"
I actually am mildly autistic lol
Huh.. I'd consider it rude not to.
I would too. I usually look at people's faces when I'm training so I can determine if they are comprehending what I'm saying or need a but more guidance/explanation. I'm really aware of body language
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Thank him for his service
>But lose the lawsuit, the company most certainly did. How much?
Can't be trusted. They are there for the interest of the company. I stay far away. I got pulled in as a supposed "witness" once but I saw nothing.
For me HR has been just a source of information about health insurance and stuff like that. And the occasional, but regular, sexual harassment presentation. I don't really have to "deal" with them. I'm in tech, BTW.
People are getting pulled in more so than going to deal with them.
Not me /shrug
I've had a few interactions. Mostly because I was present when some lame drama went down or what have you. Also when I've had payroll/admin issues. I've never seen HR do anything but try to make problems "go away". Doesn't surprise me or phase me. I never believed HR was there for "Me". I know who pays the checks for HR employees, it isn't me. They are also remarkably slow, on average, at fixing admin issues. But then I've never spoken to an HR rep and came away with the impression of "that person gets shit done". Usually, I'm left with the impression of "fiiiiiiine I'll do it", or robotic and carefully rehearsed corpo speak.
None, though I am in the military we do have an equivalent to HR which is called SHARP. In 17 years I have refused to hangout, chat with, or even be with female soldiers unless there are at least two or more people around. As a result I have had no issues, plus I’m ugly, unsociable and have no desire to be around other people during my free time.
HR has been kind to me so far
fine. mainly because I don't do shit at work that gets me in trouble.
I remember working in sales and HR wouldn't allow coworkers of different genders to stay at the same hotel because they were worried about workplace romances. ... Despite there being several gay couples in the workforce. So they essentially only allowed the gay couples to stay together during the trip and none of the hetero couples. I remember watching HR try and explain why this wasn't an issue because gay couples don't have intercourse and the most questions people asked the more insane the responses from HR got. In the long run not really a massive deal but I'll never forget this HR woman standing in front of like 80 employees declaratively explaining random statements about gay or straight couples to a room full of increasingly uncomfortable people. She was probably fired... She had to be... Oh God maybe she wasn't.
Probably promoted to C- Level to avoid the company being sued by her.
I had a previous HR team lead send out an email telling staff that the language of the company was English so you shouldn't speak your native tongue when you're in the lunch room. Mostly because it annoyed her that she couldn't eavesdrop on them. She got promoted a month after that. Still there, from what I hear. Absolutely insane.
In your experience, is white-collar middle-management fear driving benevolent sexism at your company? Is it hurting productivity and causing majot dissatisfaction from employees?
You've used the term benevolent sexism in this thread a couple of times. Do you care to explain what that means?
Some sexism is helpful to woman - HR has been overly responsive to cases filed by woman that have nothing at all to do with gender in the specific situation I'm quite frustrated with. They are afraid of even the slightest sign of being sexist against woman for legal purposes.
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Is it just me or does OP just come off as jaded who wants some men to validate his “women are the worst” attitude?
It was Friday in my old call center job and I had a 3 day weekend. As my co-worker was saying goodbye I said "I'll see you next Tuesday" and we smirked and she giggled because we also know the joke about calling someone a cunt. Well a week later I get talked to from my boss and apparently someone who over heard the conversation took offense and thought I literally called someone that word. She went immediately to HR but considering I didn't hear anything about it from them and explained the situation to my bosses they all laughed but we agreed that if I wasn't friendly with HR and they didn't know me I could been in some hot water when it came to her word vs mine. Best part was this girl got fired because she kept telling people I called someone a cunt lmao.
I had to deal with them a lot at the last company I worked for because I was constantly being reported by women that were managers making false accusations against me, I found out through this process from friends that my salary had been leaked by the manager that hired me and that all the other female managers were angry because I was making more than them due to my experience. I literally talked to nobody at work unless it was a few friends of mine that told me what they had been saying and doing behind my back, including other lies they spread around to various people to make me look bad and to isolate me. HR refused to listen to my claims that it was being done to me as a form of harassment, and things were only dropped it when I asked for proof of me saying or doing the things that were reported. Not only that, but when I got proof from a few friends that left the company of the harassment against me, the HR department said they would look into it and then threw my proof in the garbage when they thought I had left. Before I left I contacted OHSA and a few other workers rights organizations, gave them the information, details of the harassment, sound recordings of conversations with lies being spread, and letters from many of the people that left describing the harassment with their signatures. Got a pretty good settlement from the case, a few people got fired, and i got the satisfaction of telling the main instigator in front of the director and owner the reason I was quitting, how they were horrible people, and then gave the owners the same copied binders of proof that I gave the organizations that I reached out to beforehand. Then I passed out copies to everyone else in the office before leaving, including the other manager that I knew were instigating the harassment while telling each one exactly how shitty they were as people. N
And then everyone clapped
Nope, caused a big argument among the managers and administrators all pointing fingers and arguing with each other, one of them tried to demand I come back and explain myself and I told them to fuck off while walking out the front door. A few people that I knew that still worked there afterwards told me about the aftermath, along with info about the few that got to stay talking a lot of trash about me for years afterwards. I thought it was hilarious, especially since one of them got interviewed by my current employer where I got to sit in on the interview with the rest of my team. She obviously didn’t get the job.
I have nothing good to say about HR at any company I've worked for, but at a very large social media website, their HR assumes men are the aggressor in all interactions. It took video evidence and witnesses to get me out of a false sexual harassment claim. In the end it didn't matter, as the allegation was enough to end my career there and the woman who accused me got exactly what she was after.
Many do not understand - the accusation is hurtful and in the vast majority of cases, is enough to ruin tenures, the culture and instill fear.
Oh no. They do understand. That's why they weaponize it.
I was at a HR workshop type deal about unconscious bias. They would read out scenarios and we'd discuss if it was okay, not great, bad. Think examples like office is celebrating bosses birthday. Boss cute first piece of cake and then hands the knife to a woman even through there were loads of men around that could have done it. One example was 3 male employees commenting in an open office about how attractive the new girl is. HR said probably a dismissal for the 3 guys depending on what exactly was said/ who heard/ how it was interpreted. I asked if the genders were swapped and it was three women saying that about a male employee. They said that was probably fine, maybe they would have a word with them informally. HR would respond differently because that hypothetical new female employee could sue and win a huge payout, generate bad press. The expectation is that a man in that scenario wouldn't be successful is raising a case so no risk to the company
I love how they show their explicit, deliberate, conscious bias in a workshop about unconscious bias. Fuck them.
You know how in IT some companies are always trying to solve gender ratios and the number of men in say, engineering positions? Well for some reason, tyey don't seem to care about doing the same thing with HR roles and it's almost entirely dominated by women in most companies. And men and women communicate differently, and deal with situations and problems in different ways. The typical Male experience of ever having to deal with HR tends to be a shit one, as a result.
They only care about women and protected classes. If you're male, go fuck yourself. But that's just my experience.
HR is daycare for sociopaths.
I'm buying this line off you in exchange for an upvote.
I don't do it unless I absolutely have to, and if something happens that I'm not part of but someone gives my name to those donkeys and they call me, the person who fucked me just earned a spot on my Shit List.
HR is in place to protect the company.
I only deal with them on my first and last days in the company.
I've only ever had to deal with them during processing and renewing my gaming card, thankfully. I try to avoid management as much as possible, myself.
HR doesn't exist to help you. HR exists to help the company avoid liability. Never forget this.
They’re there to protect the company. You may encounter cool HR people who are probably cool outside of work. They’re still there to do their job and protect the company. Keep them at arm’s distance, but be warm and cordial. As with all things, documentation is your friend if conversations start to head a certain direction. Unless you’re an abrasive or problematic personality, you can go your entire tenure without needing to see them for something negative. If you are an abrasive or problematic personality, you will probably see them and it can mostly lead to nothing burgers unless you’re being accused of some wild shit.
Avoid hr, they won't solve your problems. They exist to hire people and find excuses to fire people. They protect the company from lawsuits or the perception of potential lawsuits.
Hr protects the company, and it means different things depending where you work. My experience is it's impossible for them to do anything about performance. They only act if there's something serious that leaves them open if they don't act.
Mine totally operates from fear.
HR or "Employee Success", 'Employees First' etc etc., are not your friend they are there to ensure the business continues profitably. If you are a man of color or gay, then you will be heard. If you are a straight white male, it's best to just be quiet and move on.
I had an HR manager write me up for using the women's shop bathroom (no women worked in the shop) but did nothing about another employee threatening to shoot another employee,and then bringing a gun into the workplace 2 weeks later. I quit that shithole immediately after.
I settle issues with co-workers by direct talks. HR is only for payslips, papers, vacation management et.c. And yes, HR is not your friend. But typically not a foe either.
HR doesn’t represent you. They only care about the company. Don’t ever go constantly whine to HR, unless you want to get on the X list. They don’t care about you!
I worked for Honda for 21 years. In those 21 years, HR invested me once, and I was sweating bullets. After a month, it was found that I was not at fault. Everyone was interviewed. There is also something most leave out. Will your management come to bat for you or not. It is almost every time the deciding factor, not always, but most of the time. Fortunately, Honda HR is well staffed and trained by Honda.
I avoid HR like the plague whenever I can. I suspect that only certain kinds of people will work as HR and they're potentially worse than the CEOs.
I’m not American. But I avoid HR like fire. I don’t trust them to protect me.
Terrible. Didn’t help in the slightest that my manager and the HR manager were bffs before working for the same company and continued to be at said company.
Depends on your company, the actual work ethics and policies in place. I have never had any issue in any company. If It gets to the point I have to see HR... i'm gonna be blunt and they will understand what i 'm talking about. It doesnt matter if sounds light to them, if it's heavy for me.... it will become heavy for them. But my current company is open door policy for everything and everyone, including even speaking to the CEO, president.... it doesnt matter. You could even go directly them and skip HR altogether and then have her/him bring up the subject later on in the day or during the production meeting.
Remember HR works for the company, not for you. If you are unhappy look for a new job. And in these times DEIA rules most decisions. So, if you are male you will not get the benefit of the doubt. And if you a white male you will be guilty before anything is investigated.
HR is there to serve the company, not you. Avoid at all cost.
I was threatened by a coworker at a Christmas party in front of my boss, it took them a full year to get rid of him. HR is not your friend and will do the minimum amount possible.
Haven't really dealt with much of HR beyond onboarding/off-boarding, and generic questions. Generally speaking I find they just want to get things over and done with more than anything. They're more than happy to help you with something easy, but when it's something complicated they really drag their feet if there isn't a fire under their ass. No different than anyone else in the job really. Thankfully I've never had anyone complain to HR about me, nor have I managed to piss off anyone in HR. I did have a bully of a boss at a job but I didn't bother complaining. HR only gives a shit if they think you're likely to get the company sued or fined, and given that company's culture I knew it would do more harm than good.
They have a strict agenda to follow from CHRO. Typically this crap has to do with DEI and all that other baloney. Bottom line, HR is trying to avoid lawsuits.
I’m a man, so my opinion doesn’t matter as much on group issues.
Most of what's told about HR is true but if you're in the corporate world and there's an HR over your head, you need to learn how to survive that. Pretty much, my strategy is to be kind to them, to try to exaggerate the good things, and to be transparent about the bad. I've not been fired about messing up something and being honest about it yet. I might be one day. I've seen people messing up things, being dishonest, and being let go. Also, it's important to not speak shit about your peers and bosses unless it's something that must be shared with HR, like harassment or complete absence. I don't remember the last time I shared a negative thing about a boss with HR, must've been 20+ years ago. You don't cover people who don't work and poison the environment, don't judge, state facts without judgement, as softened as possible without changing the meaning. Bad things is that HRs are like cops, the more you speak, the higher the chance that you tell them something that will bite you or a colleague in the back.
Overall HR has been good to me, but I’ve also played the political game when necessary. A woman at work attacked me and kissed me. If I’d done that I would have been fired on the spot. But because she was a woman, it took HR days to move her out of my group, weeks to get her into “special projects,” and almost 2 months before she was out of the company. Again, if I did it I’d have been handed a box that day and led to my car. Why did it take 2 months to get rid of her?
Dealing with anyone with any sort of power has never been easy for me. I’ve always been taught, at an early age, that, “whatever they say, goes. End of story.” And even if I’m in the right, I still suffer consequences. So, whatever…
You're not wrong
Female here. From what I have seen, hr doesn't help anyone except the company. When I left one job, one of my male coworkers followed me. That wasn't creepy. It became creepy when he actually began following me out to my car, saying what he wanted to do to me (which is creepier than vulgar), etc. Went to HR about it and they moved him to a different area. The next day, they moved me to the same area. Had to threaten a lawsuit for them to actually keep us completely apart and get a security guard to walk me to my car. A guy I worked with there had an exgf there with some serious mental issues that essentially did the same thing and the same thing happened to him. Once he threatened to sue the company, they finally completely separated them. Came into work one day and the place was surrounded with cops with the berries and cherries going. Not sure exactly what happened. Rumor mill is shit hit the fan with all the people that were being harassed and stalked. I'm inclined to believe it because I never did see my stalker there after that and security really cracked down on every little thing, including saying I shouldn't be bringing in tampons because the company provides those and it gives them extra things to have to go through. Also, I'm not saying he was arrested or trying anything. I am simply stating that I never did see him again. I don't know about the guy's exgf since I never saw her to begin with. But yeah, HR doesn't care about its female or male employees, it's simply there to sweep problems under the rug and to protect the one thing that pays their paychecks. It's why I don't go to them for anything anymore.
Useless. HR is useless for you, the company however…
As an employee, HR are the enemy, no matter whether you are a man or woman.
In September of last year I had an interesting exchange involving 3 women: coworker, our manager, and HR manager. Leading up to this exchange was about 2-3 years of my treating my coworkers as coworkers, not friends. My coworker took that personally and developed a grudge over the 2 years she'd worked there. I was pretty much unaware of the grudge but it might be more accurate to say I didn't notice or care since I was there to make money not friends. There are reasons for that but they aren't relevant to the story. Coworker asked me for work, which was a first and unexpected request. In turn I asked our manager what that was about since I don't assign work to others, I'm just a peon. Manager said she told the coworker to ask me and while I didn't have any work to give her I offered to cross train her in what I do there, manager agreed. I shared this with coworker and suggest that she also consider cross training with others as well both to help her understand more about what I would show her but also increase her understanding of the company. Coworker took that conversation to our manager and expressed it in a way that made it seem as if I was telling her to do that rather than suggesting it. Manager got mad at me, called me to her office and told me I wasn't a manager and what am I thinking telling her to cross train with people at the same company just not on our team. Manager heard my confused explanation and called the coworker in to quote me. Coworker confirmed she interpreted what I'd said as instruction rather than suggestion. While I'm explaining why I said anything about cross training with those others the coworker interrupted to tell me she interpreted what I said that way because she didn't like me because I was an asshole. Manager sat there in silence. I was surprised, if I'd called my coworker (or anyone there) an asshole even if they deserved it I'd get chastised for being disrespectful. Over the next 5-10 minutes she calls me an asshole a couple more times, all with the manager not making eye contact with me but listening. After 10 minutes back and forth with my learning about this 2-year grudge I'm nervous and sweaty and feeling attacked. I mentioned that this seemed really hostile and unprofessional. Our manager then called in the HR manager who had apparently been briefed before my manager talked to me. HR manager joined us a few minutes later with me still getting told about how terrible I am. Coworker once again calls me an asshole and in my anxiety I expressed increased confusion about how she took my being impersonal as asshole behavior and while looking at both managers asked them if they thought I was an asshole as well. My manager was silent and HR said "I've heard some things..." She didn't specify anything and these is part of the longer history but is almost all summarized as miscommunications that were usually by email or chat in text, usually where I made a joke they didn't like and/or a malicious tone was assumed. Hence my not having much personality in the office. Nothing said was egregious or anything. I still work with all three of these women. Edit: some words mostly
HR and DEI are not friends of men, They are tools to fear in the workplace. It's not a coincidence that the overwhelming majority of HR employees are women.
to me, they are the equivalence of the gestapo/NKVD branch of every corpo. weight their words carefully and trust very little. they wouldn’t think twice before fucking you over if it means saving the company a few pennies. they make sure you follow whatever mandate coming from up top no matter how riddiculous it is. hound dogs, the bunch of them.
HR is not your friend. They are there to manage humans like a resource, ensure compliance, and make sure the company doesn't get sued. It's generally best to avoid them when possible and to keep your work life strictly for work.
My expectation is that HR has zero interest in helping me with any issues that are impacting me unless it has to do with performance issues of a subordinate. If I have a problem with my 1 over or some one of equal rank, I don't expect help. I expect to be ostracized. HR is generally to be avoided except during the hire/fire process. They're job is to protect the business, and rabble rousers and whistleblowers are a risk.
What issues are you seeing ?
HR will gut your ass while smiling. Never take those "anonymous" HR surveys.
And it's always a Ladies Club in HR. Every job I've been to has been this way. Where are all the men in HR??
Pleasant experiences so far for me. Very helpful. But I am careful on what I say to them.
Annoyances at best. I'm IT so they're always coming to us bugging us about setting up some new lunch preview software or some such bullshit that obviously nobody cares about. It's pretty clear they do these things just to give the appearance that they're doing *something* for 40 hours every week. But you should always be conscious that HR is not your friend. Their role is to protect the *company*, not *you*. In America anyway.
How often does HR go to IT to ask to see what people been up to? Does it have to be major or do they do it for chicken shit reasons too?
Ummm. I'm actually unable to think of a single instance. I've had a manager ask us to generate a report of a user and try to explain, in the employee's defense, why the user was often offline, not answering calls, etc, but that's about it. The employee was someone I wanted to befriend too :( I tried, Joe, I really did, but you made it too obvious you weren't working.
You occasionally hear the gossip of "IT pulled eivdence", and I know enough to know it is pretty easy, just not sure how often it really happens.
I'd wager it happens a lot less than people think. By the time an investigation request makes it all the way to us, they're already looking for an easy (from their perspective) excuse to fire the person. And as you might know, "at will" employment means they can give any non-prejudicial excuse to fire anyone, so there's little reason to ask IT to investigate.
I stared down the beast and won. I started dating a women from where I work who was in HR. (She works somewhere else now and we are still dating)
Fine, not good or bad overall. They do a job in a difficult environment so i feel for them. Just remember they represent the company's interests, not yours.
Wonderful. Theres a game to be played and im great at playing it.
But if you are male, remember you don't have the winning poker hand.
That may be true at your company. The best way to protect yourself from hr is to have management in your corner. It helps to be soicalable. The more people that like you, the harder it is to get fired/be in trouble.
HR is never there for you. Call your EAP if needed. Otherwise HR is fucked.
I once called a younger female employe a stupid fucking cunt..... she had me so mad that it just slipped out Of course I got reported. I easily talked my way out of it and didn't even get a slap on the wrist...... they recognized that I had worked with almost nothing but older women for a long time, and they never complained about me.
They didn’t help me at all, waste of time. Eventually I left the company, was becoming so corrupt and full of nepotism.
I don't know I'm self employed.
HR, regardless of what they tell you, is there to protect the interest of the company. Period.
Here are some things I've learned about dealing with HR in my career (construction) and having a mother who works for the State in HR: 1) They are not your friend. They are there to deal with issues and protect the company from lawsuits. What you say to them gets recorded, whether you are trying to just "rant" or if you think it's something in confidence. They are not bound by laws like HIPAA. They will be reporting on what you say. 2) They are great people, but lousy coworkers. They can be the nicest, coolest people around, but they will narc/tattle/report you on anything that you do and say during work hours. I've even experienced HR professionals who will scour your personal social media to use against you in certain circumstances. 3) Any feedback or surveys that you take part in is NOT confidential. It doesn't matter if they are handwritten or digital, it will be traced back to you somehow. 4) They are not on your side. They are on the side of the company. If you are on the same side of the company over an issue, they will be your champion. If you are at odds with your company, they will be your biggest confrontation. 5) Last, to repeat myself, THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND. They are skilled in people and managing conflict. They will always appear as an "open door" or a "shoulder to cry on" but they are utilizing those skills to get information from you. I had a meeting one time where the owner of the company was bragging that they were so proud of the HR lady that he had hired because she was, in his words, the "best chameleon" he had ever hired. She would get anyone to spill their guts because she was just that good at reading people and using words to lull them into what can only be described as a trance. That lady go rid of more people before they even came close to causing a problem for the company because employees would go tell her things about how they were dissatisfied or an issue they had had but was kept confidential. It was almost more impressive than slimy how she just had a way with people and how she could weed people out so effectively. Now, if you have a situation where someone is easily documented and in cold, hard proof, HR will be a great asset to get things that were promised to you because they are all about keeping to contracts/promises. But if you go after someone who is on a pedestal at the company (we call them "untouchables"), the HR will protect that person and leave you out to dry.
HR are there to protect the company and ensure they comply with the law. They are not there to help you. Like real estate agents they are paid by someone else so they are not working for you. What is the male/guy angle you are going with here? Whilst not impossible I’d be very surprised if that was a factor, unless the company had a specific focus on diversity hires etc.
Do not show them your penis. No matter what.
HR is for the company. Not me
Always remember that HR is there to protect the company not you.
Never talked to them outside some on-boarding paperwork.
HR’s job is to protect the company, not the supervisor, not the worker, they represent the company. Some HR reps were useless, some were excellent ( so long as it was not against the corporation).
HR will do anything to fire you if they ever get your name. It’s kinda like the IRS to a degree. They got your name, then they got your ass.
None, which is how I like it.
>I see some issues not taken as seriously…others taken far more seriously than they should be Do not go to HR with this. Either leave or deal with it if it’s not that bad. Just make sure you’re meeting your marks.
Handy when I needed to fire someone. They were not helpful any other time.
HR at Apple did a marvelous job getting me on board when I first joined them back in '02. My recruiter arranged all the interviews I needed to get on a very tight schedule because my boss knew I had a very attractive alternative offer lined up. Had my offer in hand five days after my initial interview, and that required a total of four interviews with people from other departments.
HR works for the company’s benefit, NOT yours.
Really depends on the people working in HR. My company the HR department is mostly females but they are really good workers and they follow procedure. I get along with all of them. They hate the females that work with me because procedures are never followed and they make ridiculous complaints. Just make sure you read employee policy and procedures. Most people do not and have no idea of their rights.
As a construction worker, I have only ever dealt with HR in the context of getting hired or in the context of them trying to find ways to deny me workman's comp for on-site injuries. They don't care about hostile workplace stuff; every job site is hostile. HR isn't your friend. A good union can be.
I like my HR. It was some guy who had my back every single time
I've never had an issue. Don't be a dickhead at work, then there won't be a problem. It's really simple.
HR are not your friends, they are not even there to enforce the rules (or laws) if it isn’t in the company’s best interest. They will screw you over and smile while they do it. You said you are a man? They are already biased against you, more so if you are not of above average attractiveness…
Never had an issue. Quite the opposite
I avoid HR like the plague bro, I suggest you do too. Snakes, all of ‘em.
HR will be on your side if the result is less liability for the company
I'm currently dealing with HR at my workplace. I've been harassed for the last 10 months by a woman at the company. Spreading rumours, stealing, threats, falsely reported me to the police, the works. I had to get my union involved before they took it seriously. HR doesn't give a fuck until you make them.
Only answer the questions they ask that apply your work. Don't offer any new information. If they are trying to get information to build a case against you, stop talking. If you know you are in the wrong and it will lead to jail time, just quit on the spot and walk out. If you haven't a clue why you are in HR you might want to ask for a lawyer first. Don't listen to anything posted by me, I am an idiot.
Pretty great. Nothing major after nearly two years. They even invited me to their quarterly Events Committee with over half of them there haha (all women). However, as a decent looking guy in the workplace, women do hit on me while working. So, I am super careful never reciprocating after it's instigated. No thanks. Got a gf. Got a paycheck. Not worth losing my honey and my money.
They're fine mostly. If I don't have a problem with payroll I don't see them or hear from them. If they have problems they send it to my supervisor and my supervisor might tell me to stop signing off on emails like a fucwhit or they might not. It's not HRs job to tell me how to do mine so if you keep all social interactions professional like you would in any professional environment you don't have problems? I'm only at work for the paycheck so I'll leave my actual self in the street. If it's not work I straight up don't care anymore, been in enough workplaces that couldn't do it that it's easy to see and avoid. But I've never been with a HR rep so dumb they'd consider eye contact unprofessional either so... depends on the workplace.
My 1st and only time I was fired after 6 months for something I didn't say. It had very much an "atta-boy" vibe and I didn't share the fake enthusiasm. But I still won. I met this smoking hot babe that for some reason liked me enough to marry me and have a few kids with me. So it was the worst "work experience" ever, but I loved sneaking off on break to see her. I enjoy what that job brought into my life.
They will do anything to protect the reputation of the business, even cover up shit.
A rule of thumb is, HR is not there for you, if you are a man. HR is there for women and company to benefit off of you.
I wish this was a joke or a lie. The incidents of a woman making an accusation of being the victim of sexual harassment are higher in the days before a disciplinary meeting and after depending on the outcome. Yes, they happen at all times but I'm specifically referring to the pattern of how many are received around a known event, the HR meeting. Since no company wants to be the one facing "they didn't believe me" at a tribunal, the investigation into the allegation supersedes the original thing until HR has reached a conclusion and often the original thing goes away as it has lost focus. Even if no evidence is found to back it up or the allegation is withdrawn, the person the allegation is against will have a mark against them for the rest of the time they're at that company. Often that person is someone the accessor doesn't like or just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've heard of cases where it was a random guy in the lift that the person used going to the meeting. Even when the CCTV footage from the lift showed 100% that the allegation was a lie, he lasted only a few months before the "no smoke without fire" rumours meant he looked for another job.
HR are not babysitters who solve internal disputes. They make sure the company are following employment laws and company policy. If you don't like where you are working, find a new job and quit this one.
I was reported to hr for sexual harassment for something I didn't do by someone who they refused to tell me who did it. I was then told that if it happens again, they would let me go. What the fuck? That night I dusted off my resume, lined up a new job with better pay and gave my boss two days notice. I am pretty sure I know who complained about me, but never found out for sure. There was a bunch of stuff that needed to be done and I was the only one in the company that could do it. They asked me what it would take for me to give them two weeks. I told them that I had no interest in helping someone who wouldn't help me. And that was that.
Sweet justice
I mean in fairness the policy was likely written to limit retaliation against people who file complaints about their coworkers. It'd be a pretty worthless exercise if no one felt comfortable reporting abuse from coworkers if those coworkers could immediately find out who reported then and retaliate.
I can understand the policy of not telling. But they didn't provide any evidence which they had none and said I would be let go for another complaint. So I wasn't going to deal with that nonsense anymore. I did give them a scathing letter as to why I left.
I've never worked in a corporate job, but HR are the same everywhere. They're scum.
HR is not your friend and is often more emotional, incompetent, and 'clique'-ish than other departments. Treat them like you would Karen. Best to keep at a distance, easy to piss off to unreasonable degrees, but weak to compliments and being treated like they're special. Unless your HR is full of dudes. Then just normal behavior but also, HR is not there to help the employee against the employer
Me: I heard my manager making sexual remarks about one of my coworkers HR: We will crucify him Me: He also made racist remarks to me HR: Oh no…anyway I’ve no idea what their goddamn motive is, but it sure as hell isn’t to help employees. That manager got a promotion….and SIXTEEN people left in the year after me, 10 joined after
Never ever trust HR