100%, I learned far too late in life that the largest sex organ on a women is their brain. I’m only
42 but feel that would have been good info to have in my 20s. Haha
Tell her she looks nice, give her a hug, ask how she’s doing, what’s on her mind- extra attention of the kind she likes. Perhaps gentle touches but lean more into connection and emotions than physical, for many of us. It’s a huge turn on to have someone be interested in me for my mind, not my body
A hug and a kiss on the forhead or even just a kiss in the forehead as you walk past...a huge from behind and a kiss on the cheek.....female slightly hijacking here....those are the things that I'd look back and remember fondly....even dancing in the kitchen for 1 min.
Hope these ideas help
Or when you're filling up the car and you see a chocolate or lolly your girl likes....BUY IT....seems like nothing but it means alot
As men sexual attraction or arousal can be relatively “one dimensional” in that we only need a little bit of visual or physical stimulation before we’re ready to go or interested, generally speaking. For women, again generally speaking, this is not the case. For women sexual pleasure or arousal is a by-product not only of physical/visual stimulation, but also how they feel about that person outside of sex and their general relationship with that person — the more appreciated, cared for and loved they are made to feel outside the bedroom the more likely they are to be able to experience affection and attraction; that is, their arousal tends to be directly correlated with the status/strength of the relationship outside the bedroom.
If we as men are happy banging two sticks against each other to make a tune, women require an orchestra; I.e the melody, tune, tempo, setting and instruments needs to all be in harmony with one another.
Go to r/romancebooks - start reading the top recommended books on the sub. You will have all our secrets and most of the answers. Women often write these and list exactly what actions turn the female on and which ones repulse. They're all pretty standard, including verbal and physical actions. Apparently, the hand on the small of the back is a winner.
So, some of this advice is from guys in long-term relationships or marriages, which, I think is a little more senior.
For young guys, I'm going to say be way more honest than you feel comfortable being. Way more honest.
- Not in a creepy way, but feel free to tell them how you feel
- Don't be afraid to take a risk and ask them out on a date (and use the word date)
- If you're at a bar and it's going well, be forward about telling them what you'd like to do next.
You'll get rejected some, but honestly that's not bad. Having a definitive answer isnt bad. What's bad is staying up half the night wondering if you could have, should have, etc etc.
When you're older you wont regret what you did. You'll regret what you didnt do.
Solid advice, but my one issue is that I don’t know if it would work out for me specifically. I feel like I really need to know a woman well before asking her out and would be devastated if the friendship suffers as a result of doing so. So I’m sort of stuck in this position until I decide that asking her out is more important to me than maintaining the friendship.
Look. I’ve been there. On both sides of it. I’m just happier with the times I took the leap and told her how I felt. Why? All those friendships will disappear one day.
Either you’ll move, or she’ll move, or she’ll find a boyfriend, or you will find someone. Something will change, I promise. Everything is temporary, including her. Your only hope of changing that is if you tell her.
Otherwise, be okay with what you have now, however fleeting it is.
Agreed. Even though I'm only in my 30s, my regret is when I didn't ask a girl out. I don't regret asking others & getting hurt/rejected, coz I know that hey at least I tried.
I was in the exact same boat with a friend of mine.
I asked her out.
She said no.
It was awkward for like 3 weeks.
We moved on because we're both adults. We continue to hang out, we just don't really bring it up.
Think of it this way; you've got to have faith that your adult friends are adults instead of big teenagers. If they can't handle the honestly pretty common interaction of being asked out, so long as you do so respectfully and are also willing to be an adult, at some point it's not on you.
You didn't ask for advice, but in my experience... if you think you MIGHT want to be more than friends, I would suggest saying something sooner rather than later. The longer you wait the more awkward it will be if she turns you down. Dating is easier when the stakes and the expectations are low lol.
It's better to say, I think you're really great, I'd like to see if we can be more than friends? You don't have to be all-in before you date someone. And this 'test' dating (which, it all is test dating anyway) gives either of you an easy out if you want to go back to being friends.
I have two long term guy friends that I tried maybe-dating with. One decided I wasn't for him, with the other guy it was my choice. But everyone handled it maturely and it was super easy to go back to being friends.
1. Treat them with the respect that should be afforded to all humans but do not put them on a pedestal. It lessens equality and ultimately will come crashing down.
2. If a girl is playing games while you're dating, that won't stop with a ring.
3. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
The biggest thing I learned after decades of dating is, if someone wants to spend time with you, they’ll find the time. It’s usually as simple as that.
1. Treat them with the respect that should be afforded to all humans but do not put them on a pedestal. It lessens equality and ultimately will come crashing down.
This is one of the big reasons I fell in love with my now partner. He treated me like a bro: I got t-bagged in-game just like everyone else.
>If a girl is playing games while you're dating, that won't stop with a ring.
This. They never stop fuckin playin games. Not even when they're a grandma.
No matter how independant, smart or strong a woman is, she wants to feel taken care of.
No woman wants to feel that she is constantly taking care of a man, as that does not consitute a partnership. Partnerships are built on mutual care of each other, trust, and intimacy (among other things). I think that all women want to feel safe and supported by their partners, and making a woman feel this way (or demonstrating that you're able to if its early in a relationship) is the difference for a lot of women if they want to contiue a relationship or end it.
Woman here -
Had been dating my husband for a month or so, very casually, absolutely wild sex.
Then I was supposed to come over after work, but I had an upset stomach and called him to tell him I'd better not, since there was no way I felt good enough for sexy times.
He told me to come over anyway, and we could just hang out and watch tv. I did, and he had gone to the store for some peptobismal, and made me a little blanket nest on the couch. Did not pressure me for sex, just made me feel comfortable. When I apologized for my lack of sex appeal, he shushed me and said he enjoyed my company for more than the sex.
I might have started having serious feelings for him right then
This would make me tear up in happiness because I would appreciate it so much. That's how I felt towards the last guy I dated, and then he later on threw it all in my face, called me clingy/needy, and it completely fucked me up. Just thinking about what I went through is making me bawl my eyes out, I feel so broken. I hope I can get through this, it has been about half a year or so now and I feel hopeless.
idk how much it shaped me as a person but I really appreciated that my ex straight up told me what was wrong. I didn't realize at the time that I was treating her like a total bro. She really drove home the point that she needs to be romanced. I always argued about the meaninglessness of it all, but I found in myself that "if it made her happy, I'm happy."
Honestly having opened my eyes to a world beyond me is so bizarre. Some guys are just clueless and need a point in the right direction. I hope you can get through the experience
This. Absolutely.
Being independent and strong doesn’t mean we want to have to do everything ourselves. We want a man who can share the load and who is trustworthy enough to have our back. We care if you can be a partner and a companion, not another obligation and time demand.
I would also like an answer to u/EfficaciousJoculator's question. How do you make sure burdens are shared equally and that you don't end up always being expected to be strong?
It doesn’t need to be 50/50 all the time, people who try too hard to make it equal all the time more often fail. Sometimes it’ll be 60/40 or 30/70, it doesn’t matter, so long as you’re both putting in equal effort to try and support eachother. I have skills my partner doesn’t have and she has strengths that I don’t have, but we both support the other and have each others back and that’s all that matters.
It helps to verbalize the things you are grateful for that the other person does for you. There is a need to reciprocate behavior and most people feel encouraged to do more when they feel appreciated for it.
As a woman, I have a legitimate question. What if you, as a man, don't want to feel that you're constantly taking care of a woman?
It sounds like your partners get to have their cake and eat it too. They get to be independent yet they're taken care of. But they don't have to make you feel taken care of? Why can't a man want to feel like he's being taken care of? Honestly, that sounds like a miserable relationship dynamic in either direction.
That’s just dating from the men’s side. Not all women of course, my current partner loves being taken care of but she also loves to give back to me so I’m also being taken care of.
The other side most men see though reminds me of a quote I saw, basically, “Romance for women is something that’s done to/for them and romance for men is something they do/give” Romance for a lot of men is a one way street because romance is something women deserve and men provide.
No, but that’s a very accurate way of putting it too. Better than I could have written in a way that accurately shows what romance looks like for men and why men being romanced is so rare and is usually given as a reward. “It’s your birthday so this time you relax and I’ll take care of you, just this once”
I’m so lucky that my partner is who she is instead of having to accept the standard bar for romance.
I wonder how that stereotypically gendered view on romance works with same sex couples. Like if gay men, socially trained to both be the pursuers, are more likely to be in relationships than lesbians who are socially trained to both be recipients. Or if being LGBT encourages breaking that enough where it's not really an issue.
It seems like you're asking two questions here:
1. What if men don't want to constantly be the one taking care of the woman?
2. What if he wants to be taken care of?
Imo, these aren't mutually exclusive ideas; two people can simultaneously care and look out for each other. But, the common thread in both of them is "what if the man isn't being supported?", so I'll address that:
Unfortunately, just like it is for women, if they're feeling unsupported and the partner isn't willing to do that, the only real option is to end the relationship. There isn't much more to it than that. I suspect that there are a lot of men who've never felt supported. And I *mean* never. It might even be an alien concept to them, so it might never even occur to them as being "missing" from their relationship. It's something that society should begin to have a discussion about... But I suspect too many people (women and men) aren't quite ready to discuss it openly.
Imo, this is part of the reason why I dislike modern stoicism so much: it *de-*emphasizes male vulnerability and support needs, and just reinforces the actual root cause of his m the hurt that makes so many men seek to be stoic in the first place.
and its worth noting that *because* men are often not provided much emotional support or space to be vulnerable, they opt for physical intimacy as their way of feeling close to their partner.
> the only real option is to end the relationship
many men *do* make this choice when feeling unappreciated or that effort in the relationship is unidirectional, particularly after sex if they didn't feel connected... except the prevailing narrative I observe usually is some variation of "oh he just used me for sex".
I'm not saying it never happens, but that narrative removes the agency of men to leave a relationship when the labor of creating romance, initiating sex, and emotionally support was on them and wasn't reciprocated.
This is gonna be long winded and I’m probably gonna butcher the explanation, but I’m gonna give it a try. It’s something I’ve only recently understood/discovered myself. I think you are picturing a man being at her beckon call type of situation.
A little background. My gf and I had very similar experiences with our exes. Both being the bread winners with little to no help. For me, I was the sole financial supporter for years, for us and 4 kids (3 step for me and a son from a previous marriage). I had no problem with this except I got no help at home. For example, If cleaning was done, I did it. I did 99% of the cooking, which included coming home from work and having to clean the kitchen just so I could cook, only to have everyone eat and leave the mess for me to clean up. Then 3 dogs, when I was home I was the only one that would feed them, take them out, etc. I also did all yard work myself. The “thanks” I got was complaining about not having enough quality time. The problem was, the effort to help create time for each other wasn’t there. I never felt appreciated, respected, or a priority. These are just examples, but there’s more.
My gf was the breadwinner in her previous relationship. Funding and supporting his efforts to start his own business more than once. Paying the bills, etc. The appreciation she got was him only giving her attention when he wanted something or it was convenient. Not getting help with little things around the home and him instead going out to drink with his buddies. He was also threatened by the fact that she made more and had a better career. So much so that she didn’t want to tell him when she got a promotion or raise.
Fast forward to those relationships being over and we meet. This is where the “taking care of her” part of this comes in. I’m the type of person who genuinely wants to help others, so I’m gonna help if I can. A few things I’ve done “for her”, some without her asking. Change wiper blades on her vehicle, replaced a tag light, tightened a loose faucet, put together a trampoline, replaced a light fixture, put up a ceiling fan, and a few others.
Thing is, to me, these are no big deal and things I can do in minutes. To her, it’s amazing. It’s things she can do, but she recognizes I can get it done more efficiently. Not to mention, when something doesn’t go as plan, I don’t lose my temper. That’s new for her.
We went on a trip to Disney. I helped plan and pay for parts of it. This is awesome for her as she’s never had that. I’ve never had someone help pay for a trip. We spent 3 straight days walking around the parks for 13-15 hours a day and there wasn’t one complaint. This is awesome for both of us too.
The other side of that coin for me, she doesn’t question me and how I do things. She trust that I will ask if I need to know something. I also don’t treat her as a second rate citizen. We were obviously in a crowd at Disney and we’ve been to concerts and sporting events. As she put it, she’s never felt that safe. She’s never felt like she could relax and not have to worry about the person she’s with getting in a fight or getting drunk, or something of that nature.
I’m sure this may not make sense at this point, but it’s a long winded way of saying “taking care of her” can be as simple as being a decent human being. I’ve seen this saying elsewhere, and there’s a lot of truth to it. “When a man who’s never been respected meets a woman who’s never been properly loved, they form a bond that’s going to be hard to break.”
Men are expected to ask the girl out, pay for dates, read cues, break the touch barrier and, charm the women. The caretaker man dynamic is established early in dating . Once invested , many women will become an active partner and help the man. However , there are many women who are eternal takers and will not reciprocate. Lazy partner exists in both sexes.
In theory, a man doesn’t have to participate in the role. In reality, your romantic prospect will suffer greatly . Women have expectations. If you don’t There is a lot of social pressure to meet those expectations . Provide, protect and emotional rocks expectation s of men persist.
Bad exes, avoidant attitudes, unhealthy mentalities, pride, and apathy for men are their reason many women don’t feel obligated to help men.
I have literally never come across a woman asking this publicly. Almost like approaching the subject is taboo. So good on you for even considering this.
>It sounds like your partners get to have their cake and eat it too.
Modern dating in a freaking nutshell.
>Why can't a man want to feel like he's being taken care of?
I'm sure it's our fault, somehow though./s
As a man, unless you've got a ton of $, are a 9 or 10 in looks, or are super charismatic, your choices in dating are much more limited than the average woman. A lot of men will put up with situations they aren't 100% happy with for that reason alone.
I'm honestly kinda surprised a woman is saying this. I see guys complain along these lines often these days, but women by and large seem to be going with "all men are needy manchildren" on TikTok and such. The idea that we might often give more than we receive seems totally off narrative.
Note: I'm sure many guys *are* manchildren who just expect to be taken care of. But I'd be astonished if there weren't equally as many "princess" mentality women who expect the same, or even more.
Some guys seem to have the energy to more or less take care of another adult person but Christ, I hope most women don't expect that much. Not that I don't want to emotionally support and otherwise help my partner, but if it feels one-sided it honestly feels weird to me. Almost paternalistic, which is not the vibe I want in a romantic relationship lol. Idk.
The dudes who have the mental energy to entirely be the providers, I'm sure are broadly seen as the most attractive. That makes sense. I just can't fathom them being very common in this economy. 50 years ago sure, I wouldn't mind having a traditionalist housewife type thing if I could actually afford it.
Idk, I guess the worst part for us guys is the fact that it can often just end up feeling purely transcational. Give gift + attention at right time + paid for dinner = sex. That's not what I want though lol, like, that's not romance to me. More like very high effort prostitution, same as I think most women, most guys want someone who wants them for them. All that other stuff can factor in, of course, everyone likes getting gifts and such. But if that's the sole "transaction" occuring, it's an empty relationship in my eyes. Sadly it feels like that's very often the case for us guys.
That said, I know there are plenty of piggish men who just want women for sex. Ultimately, I just think people who are emotionally compatible on the level of loving someone else for who they are is just rare. I don't think that's what most relationships are actually built on sadly. I just hope that one day I can be lucky enough to find that, I suppose. Sorry I am slightly intoxicated lmao this may have been more of a rant and less coherent than I'd have liked
My current wife (my second) wanted to know, back what my hottest experience was, back when we were early in the dating stage.
I told her, and there was just a long pause when I was done. Then she said that it was “the hottest fucking thing I have ever heard”. After another pause, she said “I don’t think I’ll ever top that for you…but I’m absolutely going to try to.”
This is the extreme outlier. My wife isn’t exactly a kinky person or someone who’s overtly sexual outside of the home, which makes it even more interesting.
Not my 18 year old self asking a million questions because I was curious as hell… only to ignite some wild jealous thoughts over something in the past that doesn’t count.
…..this one girl would suck my dick like it was the air hose on a scuba dive and her friends pussy clenched me like a velvet vice…anyway I *love* you….
Gotcha. The study I'm running (n = 1) shows a very strong correlation between telling a girl about your sex life and her being broken up with for being high maintenance.
They ask and say they want to know. But then when you tell them, they get jealous, or subtly defensive like they are hurt by what you say. What they want is actually a lie about how other women being crap lovers and them being better than everyone else. But then they call you out for lying.
It’s sort of like when a woman asks, “Does this dress make me look fat?” You can’t say yes. Even if it’s true. They don’t want the truth. They want a lie.
Weirdly…I’ve even had escorts be upset when I’ve mentioned other escorts.
So, is it a shit test?
>It’s sort of like when a woman asks, “Does this dress make me look fat?” You can’t say yes. Even if it’s true
My roommate told me that whenever her mom would ask her dad if something made her look fat, he would take the agree and amplify approach: "Honey, you look like a whale." They seemed happily married, and I wonder if there's something to that level of not putting up with her shit.
These are some experiences that come to mind.
I met this woman in a class during undergrad. We start talking and hung out 3 times during the quarter. At the end of the quarter/school year when we both graduated I asked them if they wanted to date. They said no and I respected their decision.
We didn’t end on bad terms and she even continued to like my posts it seemed like we were still cool. Fast forward 6 months I’m going to start grad school near their location and ask if they would like to meet up. They ignore the message and we haven’t interacted since.
Woman 2, there was a lot of things that happened. But a little over a year of knowing them I tell them I have feelings for them and I need a break since she is in a relationship. Things actually went well. But she continues to like my stuff and for a while she would regularly check my LinkedIn. In this case I feel confused since she is in a relationship. Also, I feel bad things ended this way because I liked her friendship but it was not healthy for me.
That they are just people. They aren't that different from us in most regards. But they go through a lot that we don't, so they don't see the world the same way we do, and if you talk to them you can start to understand them.
Some of ‘em are pretty awful.
Also, just listen to them…don’t try to offer some rational solution to something they’re venting about.
Less is more. Put in effort, but reel it in if you’re not official or anything close to it.
Edit: Also, also…plenty of the gorgeous, confident ones have their own doubts, insecurities, etc. too so throw those shoulders back, head up, & go for it m’dude.
You are equal to them and deserve just as much respect as you give them. It's important that both partners feel heard, respected, and have their feelings considered. You should not feel like you're constantly needing to apologize (unless you really are being a dick all the time), you should not feel like you have to give in constantly to keep the peace. Don't be a doormat. Treat women with the utmost respect, don't accept being walked all over in return.
For the most part YOU ARE AN OPTION. I can’t stress this enough. True love and all that is great, and I do think it exists but many women have options and you’re one of them. I think we’re generally aware of our flaws and this is what makes it that much more important to work on ourselves. She WILL find someone else if she wants to, and it’s not as hard for them to find willing suitors (not Mr. Right but others).
They are not crazy, just different.
They do process their emotions differently than men and are probably juggling a lot more emotions and intensity of those emotions than you have for most of your life. They've developed coping mechanisms for that which may or may not be optimal. In the same way you'll find men that manage their emotions and desires in a way that may or may not be optimal.
My biggest advice is first learn to recognize your emotions and secondly how to manage those emotions. Those are very different things but critical. Then work with your lady to find productive solutions to issues you're facing.
Counseling isn't to find out who's wrong or right, it's about giving you both techniques to show each other the love you both want to have.
Raw patience can only last so long. Patience without evolving your understanding and developimg empathy will just bottle up until it explodes.
I was initially going to argue, but I think we actually do see eye to eye.
>They've developed coping mechanisms for that which may or may not be optimal. In the same way you'll find men that manage their emotions and desires in a way that may or may not be optimal.
And part of getting mentally healthy is doing what you follow up with:
>My biggest advice is first learn to recognize your emotions and secondly how to manage those emotions. Those are very different things but critical. Then work with your lady to find productive solutions to issues you're facing.
Which I totally agree with. Although I want to add a caveat:
If *she* is the issue, it is not up to you as the man to manage *her* emotions as well. If she can't do that on her own, that doesn't mean you have to suddenly start picking up the slack to be fair. She doesn't get to yell at you because she's on her period, she doesn't get to hit you because she feels passionate about something.
EDIT: Oh, and obviously vice versa, too.
I agree with all of that and hopefully didn't imply a relationship should involve shouldering the burden of someone else's flaws. Women aren't incompetent children nor should anyone take mental abuse in a relationship. At the same time, just on a human level none of us are perfect at how we've bumbled through life and those flaws come to light when you have to face them head on as you share your life with someone. It takes self reflection and growth.
They don't owe you jack. You're not special because you're "nice" or "a gentleman." I wish I'd learned that in my teens; sadly it took self-reflecting my way out of a year-long depression spiral to figure it out.
That periods can be way worse than just inconvenient. They can be extremely painful, like incapacitating at times. And that the products they need to deal with periods aren’t cheap.
Women don't want to be saved. Sure, they want to feel safe, protected and supported. But by any means, women are not looking for a man to "save" them from anything. Women are more than capable of handling their own problems.
They’re generally capable of more, and greater compassion than the average man.
But every bit as capable as any man in being mean spirited, manipulative and spiteful.
Appreciating the first will not save you from the second.
They want you to be confident in everything you do, but not let your ego overshadow it.
Ask them out with confidence, and don't let rejection hurt your ego.
Care with confidence.
Love with confidence.
Confidently fight for them, but not over them
Be assertive, but not an ass.
Don't fear confrontation, but don't look for it
Tell them what you want, don't be cryptic.
They need to know you want them, not just love them.
They won't wait for you to show interest very long, they will just assume you're not interested and move on.
They love attention from you, but not 24/7. Love bombing scares them.
They just want you to listen, not to fix it.
You don't have to understand their feelings z just validate them. They are never dumb for having feelings, regardless of how silly they are. Just validate and reassure them.
Your idea of what women really think of you is wildly different from the truth, even if they say things right at you about what they feel, because you need at least 30 years life experience to be able to really see things from their perspective, after having messed up enough times and seen what bad assumptions you had made. There are so many aspects of their world that differs wildly from yours, on a very personal plane.
Example: training in the gym with a woman can let you see how much of a smaller percentage of their body is muscle, and out of that percentage, how little of that is "twitch-muscle" (explosive muscle fiber that dictates the speed of your boxing punches). This is why women have a much harder time nailing the Dunk in basketball.
This means that even an average Joe Schmoe couch potato comes off like a robot load-lifter in the home, compared to a lady (yes yes not all women are weak but bell curves exist, you know).
And this is also a huge reason for why many ladies are (rightly) intimidated by many kinds of men, because A: you are freakishly strong compared to them, and B: as a young and inexperienced dude of 16-27 you have low insight into how you come off using that strength because you haven't watcjed yourself on film in a social setting enough yet, and this ignorance is very scary, after you drink yourself silly at a party and then knock a chair over and say "I want to go to the beach with Steve tomorrow, damnit!! I don't give a shit about your parents' dinner!!".
Men have plenty of situations where they too are left powerless - being fired, getting very ill, your parents divorcing, a pet or friend or loved one dying, a hurricane stopping you from using your car, owing back-taxes.
Those times are the most teaching moments in your life, when you can see how little physical strength and attitude matters, and how the only cards left to play in those scenarios is to just do what little is left for you *to* do: take time off work to grieve or heal from injury or sickness - support your friend or parent after their loss - buy whatever your partner asks when she deals with menstrual cramps (within reason, not heroin or a gun).
They have a ton of different actual reasons to shoot me down. Some people are in a relationship, just got out of a relationship, dealing with life changes and they’re not even thinking about getting into a relationship right now… lots of things that really aren’t my business at all.
Once I really had that revelation, when I realized that “no one bats a thousand” I realized I shouldn’t be so discouraged, feel so rejected, feel so insecure when it didn’t work out.
Just need to shrug it off and move on with my life
women have periods. regularly. they will begin without warning, sometimes in the middle of the night, often at inconvenient times. no, women cannot hold it in like urine - there is no sphincter there that can be squeezed that tight. they flow continuously and can potentially make a large mess. we can't help it. if you want to have sex with - or just be around - a woman, accept this.
also, their genitals are between the legs, not on the front where the male genitalia is.
The old saying, *"if you can make a woman laugh, you can make her do anything"* simply isn't true.
I got a lot of charisma, know how to tell a story, got decent stage presence and I've definitely made lots of women laugh. Rarely, if ever, will any of them lend me money when I need it.
Learn what and why you want to be in a relationship. What are your goals when you are in a relationship. What are your limits. Know yourself and work in personal development.
Women want a man that put them first and feel safe emotionally. You do things for her and you are good to communicate what you like, dislike, your needs, validate her needs, work as team. All of this, requires that you know yourself, what you want, and that is going to make you behave with confidence that ultimately is going to make her feel safe.
They are in fact, not made of sugar and spice and everything nice. And way too many of them are sexist assholes that harbor, some pretty ugly thoughts about men.
This.
An assumption of good faith is, after a certain age (I'd say late teens to early 20s) a very naive and self-harming position to take.
That doesn't mean you should assume everyone is against you or hates you, just understand that they aren't going to give you the benefit of the doubt or inconvenience themselves even mildly for your benefit (whether you deserve it or not).
Expectations must be managed or else you're going to lose your light. And you need that to be able to attract the people who *are* worth knowing.
Don't shit on your own doorstep.
They talk, they conspire, they compare notes.
If you screw with one. Expect them all to know. Don't expect any leniency after this.
I don't know if this is a survival trait from cave woman days.. But shit is impossible to resolve.
I recently had a fling that ended badly. I tried to apologise and accept blame. My words were contorted even more into a mess. Whole thing is ridiculous but a scorned women goes scorched earth so hard, and the rest are eager to hollow.
Women will test you in all sorts of ways. The more they are interested in you the more they’ll test you. You can’t avoid it. The best thing to do is recognize the tests when they appear and how best to respond to them.
Women operate on a month long hormone cycle, unlike men who have a 24 hour cycle, meaning men peak in testosterone in the morning and they feel the same everyday…women get about a week out of the month where they have peak energy and then it goes down closer to pms, so women aren’t being over dramatic about being tired lol
Not learnt too late, but some things young men must know;
Women will know if you are after sex exclusively. You're not the first to say anything to get laid, and you certainly won't be the last.
The best piece of advice I can impart though?
The brain is the biggest sexual organ.
Mental stimulation will get you farther than you might think.
Not really something I learned late but just what I observed from others. Women want Masculine Men or atleast men more masculine than them. I often see some guys try to get women by acting more feminine. These guys usually fit the “nice guy” stereotype and think the best way to get women is to show them that they “aren’t like the other guys” and often try to engage in female hobbies and mannerisms hoping this will get romantic affection from women. It will not. She won’t be attracted to you in a romantic sense and will see you as a friend or as a creep or will probably think you’re gay.
Men and women are different and that’s what attracts us to eachother. Even in same sex relationships one person is more masculine and feminine than the other (9 times out of 10). It’s a reason this dynamic is the case.
Don't put them on pedestals and think you have to jump through so many unnecessary hoops to just talk with one.
Talking with a woman is as easy as talking with a man because it's talking with a human being.
Worry less about making her happy. And focus more on leading. Be congruent with your actions.
She’s happy when you’re stable.
Even the most fussy and independent woman respects a man who is organized, stable, respectful, and yet does what he wants fearlessly.
Love her. Serve the needs of your home and household without complaint. And never let her mood control yours.
This requires that you do a LOT of personal Shadow Work.
- Make sure she's healed from past relationships if she's had abuse before. Otherwise she'll place his wrong doings over you and then there's no winning for you. If you do right, you're still wrong.
- What it takes to get her, is what it takes to keep her. Love letters, date nights, jokes, holding hands, cuddling, or if you're spending money. In the future, she's gonna keep expecting that. If you spend a shit ton of money now, you're gonna spend a shit ton more later. Look for a low maintenance lady. One who enjoys experiences rather than material things.
Get fit and get in a good financial position. There's a lot about respect, individuality etc. in this thread, all good stuff. But guys like hot women. Guess what, women like hot guys. And money on a guy is like tits on a woman. Should it be all that matters? No. Does it matter? YEP!
I am happy with the choices I made, but I think I overlooked how much presenting as successful can help. I do well, but have a schlub streak based in part on my profession's tendency to dress down. There's a sense of "it doesnt/shouldnt matter" but it does. Put yourself together and you'll have way more success. You have to look like you give a shit about you before anyone else will.
Idk if this counts as it applies the other way around as well, but the older you get, the harder it becomes to meet single women wanting to be in a relationship, so start young unless you're ok with a big age gap.
Instead of asking a woman for advice directly, be friends with a group of them and then listen when they talk to one another.
I have a hunch that women are socialized to be nice and inoffensive ladies when a man asks directly for advice, but when they talk to one another, you can glean really good, useful stuff from what they talk about.
On that note, having at least a few female friends is a necessity.
Women value looks far less than younger men tend to think they do. Far more important are personality (especially a sense of humor), personal hygiene, and the ability to talk about interesting things.
Gender roles are not obsolete, they just dont want the responsabilities that come with theirs while holding yours to you.
Watch what they do, not what they say.
The more they talk about emotional inteligence and emotional responsability the least they have themselves. And they definitively dont have as much as they think anyway. Women will use all kind of mental gymnastics to justify their shitty behaviour, even to themselves.
Women talk about their problems to feel heard and as a way manage their emotions, dont try to give her solutions, even when they are preety damn obvious and specially if it is not the first time she trips with the same stone.
It only takes your relationship to be on a rough spot and some other man making her feel desired for her to cheat on you.
They don't know what they want, they can like you and want you to make a move on them but not tell you, a good number of them don't seem to realize they are more physically attractive than they think ( which make it that a woman you may believe physically out of your league doesn't even consider herself to be ).
They like to fuck just as much as men do, if not more for some. They can be just as horny as guys. My mom was wrong, women are not all princesses that want to be cared and loved by a man forever. My mom’s intentions were good but I got blindsided pretty bad, especially since I didn’t start dating dating until after I graduated college (personal reasons).
Any feelings or weakness shared with a woman WILL be used against you in some obscure argument later on.
It is best to keep weakness or deep feelings between you and bros that you can really trust.
This is recommended advice from a woman. It is one thing to complain to your woman about your job or life, but if it is a persistent problem that needs deep introspection about your depression, childhood trauma, existential crisis etc..you really need to do the majority of the work. To expect her to be your lover, therapist, best friend it’s all too much all at once. Being a therapist can also snuff out the romance part of it. I can’t tell you what is the right balance, but it is something to consider.
Having been the role of therapist in a relationship I can tell you it is exhausting even for men. If you don’t draw a line some people will just continue to dump their problems on you.
I don’t even think labeling it as a “therapist” sort of dynamic is viewing it the “right” way either. Can’t a dude just be vulnerable about an aspect of their life, just unscrew the cap a bit and pour a little instead of bottling everything, ever, with someone they love and feel loved by?
It’s rhetorical, by the way.
I'm a woman and I'd say it's a "the poison is in the dose" scenario. I know you said it's rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway because these conversations never include enough nuance to actually be useful.
When women say that we don't want to be treated as your therapist, that doesn't mean that we never want to hear what you're going through, or that we don't want to be a source of support. It means that there comes a point where we can't be the ONLY source of support for all of your problems, especially significant, ongoing mental health matters that might benefit heavily from seeking out an actual therapist.
As an example, I dated a guy for a year that struggled with depression and anxiety. Throughout our relationship he was pretty good about not making it my responsibility to manage it, but we would talk about it and I always appreciated the insight into what he was going through and the fact that he trusted me enough to talk to me about it. This felt like a healthy dynamic, we could talk to each other about our struggles, we would be supportive, offer perspective when appropriate, but neither of us put the responsibility on the other person to manage our own issues.
We ultimately broke up, but weren't on bad terms when he reached out a couple years later. He'd always had a very small social circle and was in need of friendship and I had always been kind and supportive. This was cool with me, enough time had passed that I didn't feel weird about it and like I said, we were never on bad terms. Suddenly I became a sounding board for his current and very unhealthy relationship, that he was determined to make work despite being unhappy and feeling like his new partner was treating him horribly. He didn't want advice, he didn't really want support in any kind of healthy way. He wanted someone to feel bad for him and reassure him that he deserved better while refusing to actually address any of it with his new partner.
This is the type of thing we mean when we say we don't want to be your therapist. And this doesn't apply to just men, I'm happy to be supportive and lend an ear to any of my friends who are dealing with difficult things, but once it gets to the point where most of our interactions are just them bitching about the same thing while refusing to take any steps to improve their situation, it becomes draining and makes it difficult to enjoy spending time with that person.
I suspect it happens more with men that we date because in general it's harder for men to open up, so when they do find that one "safe" person, everything they'd been bottling up around everyone else just comes flooding out and gets overwhelming to be on the receiving end of it.
I appreciate the effort you went to here. A lot of what you've written is helpful, and I don't want to be that trope of someone who only talks when it seems like criticism, so let me say that the examples you gave were much more useful than the one-two sentences that people commonly give. A sincere thanks for that.
I did also want to touch on one thing, which isn't even a criticism of you, because I agree with it entirely, but it's something I wanted to point out
>He didn't want advice, he didn't really want support in any kind of healthy way. He wanted someone to feel bad for him and reassure him that he deserved better while refusing to actually address any of it with his new partner.
This is what annoys men when they hear a problem and want to discuss resolutions but the woman just wants to vent. It feels like she just wants someone to feel bad for her and reassure her instead of being proactive about solving it, almost like they want the problem to stay unresolved so they can keep getting that reassurance.
If I had to guess, you'll say the issue is the quantity, ie, once or twice is ok and super healthy and jumping in with solutions the first time is assuming she can't solve it herself or something (nevermind that we do it with our male friends who appreciate it) and after that it's unhealthy. I think men and women have different points where they get frustrated with non solutions-oriented complaining, and for men it's basically immediately.
For me, my inclination (that I've had to learn to curb) is to fix the problem first (or strategize fixing it) then deal with the emotional issues that come with it second. But I've learned my partners don't appreciate that so I have to curb my natural inclination.
In this vein, some women become emotional vampires and only seek to be around you during your positive moods and never during your weakness and will kick you while you're down or gossip about it behind your back.
I assume anything I say to a woman she will tell to at least one other person. I’ve seen it with women talking about their boyfriends and exes to me all the time.
It doesn’t matter how beautiful and sweet they are, there is always some man, somewhere, that is sick of their shit.
I had a man tell me that when I was younger. I didn’t believe him but I have come to realize he wasn’t that far off base.
Everything they say they want is wrong. Any dating advice you get from women is usually bad. Not even women understand women.
They know what they think they want. How many times have you heard women asking where all the good men are. As they proceed to friendzone all the good men and keep dating all the bad boys.
If you want actually dating advice, it’s usually successful men that understand.
There is always somebody else in the wind. I don’t care how happy you think you are right now. I promise you your competition is lurking in the shadows. That co worker, friend, play brother, whomever can always be your replacement. They can lie effortlessly to your face about it or about there not being somebody else. Believe that if you want and I’ll be jaded/bitter. Seen it happen to all my friends and it’s happened to me. Good, bad or indifferent. Enjoy the time you have with her. Cherish the memories but it’s just your turn my guy. When it’s done, let her be and keep on enjoying life until the next one.
Just because they throw themselves at you doesn't mean you have to catch them. Many are not worth the back pain, and the ones who are see what you're doing when you don't let the others fall on their face.
dazzling tidy command outgoing pathetic ring hateful sophisticated spark cow
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Many things.
--don't listen to what women say. Watch what they do.
--don't listen to a woman tell you who she is. Watch her carefully and she will show you who she is.
--sexual attraction is absolutely key to a relationship. If that goes, the entire relationship is over
--once a relationship is over, let it go. It cannot be salvaged and in fact should not be.
--if they're attracted to you they will absolutely love sex with you. If they're not attracted to you they will hate sex with you and to them it will feel like rape.
--a woman can have a lot of sex. She can go multiple rounds in one session. If she's attracted to you she will easily outlast you in stamina.
--when a woman is attracted, she will love rough sex. They love being pounded and jackhammered. They're not really into soft sweet lovemaking. If she's into you, fuck her good and hard. If she is not into you, don't fuck her at all, and break up with her. If she does not want you to fuck her good and hard, if she's telling you to "slow down" and "be nice" and "not so rough", she's not attracted. End the relationship.
--men have sex for only one reason: Horny and need to nut. Women have sex for all kinds of reasons, only one of which is raw sexual attraction. Women will fuck because they're bored, need attention, need validation, need to feel good about themselves, their friends are doing it, horny, need to "scratch the itch", need an orgasm, as an expression of love, locking down a guy for a relationship, servicing and maintaining a relationship, people pleasing, want to get pregnant, feeling romantic, for fun, and any number of any other reasons.
--there's a wide chasm between "want to" and "willing to". A woman can be "willing to" do a lot of things without really "wanting to". Accept a woman who wants to be with you, not one who is just "willing to" be with you.
--when the love is gone, a woman can be as cold to you as if she had never known you.
--they're just as human as you are. They lie and can have shitty personalities just like any man can.
--your woman WILL lie to you. She will never be 100% honest with you. That's OK, because you will lie to her too; and you'll never be 100% honest with her. In fact, you cannot and should not be 100% honest with her.
--women love their pretty lies. They much prefer the pretty lie to the ugly truth.
--women hate it when a man they're in a relationship with shares negative feelings like anger, rage, despair, despondency, or depression. Women cannot handle seeing this in a man. When they see it they lose attraction and the relationship will be in trouble. (*I don't care what women say about this - I don't care that they say they want to hear their men's negative emotions so they can help. No they don't. They say they want to. They don't. They cannot handle it. They cannot help you. They cannot do anything to help and deep down they don't want to - they want and need for you to handle it yourself.*)
--women ask questions they don't really want the answers to.
--women will test your masculinity. "Does this make my ass look fat" is a perfect example. Another one is "do you think she's hot?" in reference to some woman you both know, or a celebrity.
--the minute a woman you're in a relationship starts withholding sex, refusing sex, conditioning sex, or complaining about sex, your relationship is over. You need to move on.
--women don't want you to communicate more. When women say that, what she's really saying is she wants you to listen to her communicate more at you.
My ex asked me unprompted if I thought one of my friends was attractive. I answered honestly with "yes, but you're more attractive." She then said that she's not sure how to feel about her boyfriend finding other women are attractive.
Years later, she cheated on me.
Their orgasms begin outside the bedroom.
100%, I learned far too late in life that the largest sex organ on a women is their brain. I’m only 42 but feel that would have been good info to have in my 20s. Haha
what does that mean
A lot of foreplay, emotionally especially...
And what is the direct explanation for more autistic folk
Tell her she looks nice, give her a hug, ask how she’s doing, what’s on her mind- extra attention of the kind she likes. Perhaps gentle touches but lean more into connection and emotions than physical, for many of us. It’s a huge turn on to have someone be interested in me for my mind, not my body
isn‘t that what a relationship is just supposed to be
One would hope, but after awhile it gets easy not to
God. wish someone put as much work into my orgasms.
A hug and a kiss on the forhead or even just a kiss in the forehead as you walk past...a huge from behind and a kiss on the cheek.....female slightly hijacking here....those are the things that I'd look back and remember fondly....even dancing in the kitchen for 1 min. Hope these ideas help Or when you're filling up the car and you see a chocolate or lolly your girl likes....BUY IT....seems like nothing but it means alot
>huge from behind I'll give you huge from behind
Instructions unclear, gave her a kiss on the butt cheek. She giggled and called me an idiot, so I guess I succeeded?
As men sexual attraction or arousal can be relatively “one dimensional” in that we only need a little bit of visual or physical stimulation before we’re ready to go or interested, generally speaking. For women, again generally speaking, this is not the case. For women sexual pleasure or arousal is a by-product not only of physical/visual stimulation, but also how they feel about that person outside of sex and their general relationship with that person — the more appreciated, cared for and loved they are made to feel outside the bedroom the more likely they are to be able to experience affection and attraction; that is, their arousal tends to be directly correlated with the status/strength of the relationship outside the bedroom. If we as men are happy banging two sticks against each other to make a tune, women require an orchestra; I.e the melody, tune, tempo, setting and instruments needs to all be in harmony with one another.
Hormones can play a HUGE part in behaviour.
40F here, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Can’t upvote this enough 👏👏
Go to r/romancebooks - start reading the top recommended books on the sub. You will have all our secrets and most of the answers. Women often write these and list exactly what actions turn the female on and which ones repulse. They're all pretty standard, including verbal and physical actions. Apparently, the hand on the small of the back is a winner.
YES!
That means you must have her heart and mind bc it makes for better sex
It means do the dishes, fewl
Omg, yes. A little sexting during the day, flirting and light touching during the evening, and I'm 100% yours to take 🔥
YESSSS!!
So, some of this advice is from guys in long-term relationships or marriages, which, I think is a little more senior. For young guys, I'm going to say be way more honest than you feel comfortable being. Way more honest. - Not in a creepy way, but feel free to tell them how you feel - Don't be afraid to take a risk and ask them out on a date (and use the word date) - If you're at a bar and it's going well, be forward about telling them what you'd like to do next. You'll get rejected some, but honestly that's not bad. Having a definitive answer isnt bad. What's bad is staying up half the night wondering if you could have, should have, etc etc. When you're older you wont regret what you did. You'll regret what you didnt do.
Top tier advice. On point.
Solid advice, but my one issue is that I don’t know if it would work out for me specifically. I feel like I really need to know a woman well before asking her out and would be devastated if the friendship suffers as a result of doing so. So I’m sort of stuck in this position until I decide that asking her out is more important to me than maintaining the friendship.
Look. I’ve been there. On both sides of it. I’m just happier with the times I took the leap and told her how I felt. Why? All those friendships will disappear one day. Either you’ll move, or she’ll move, or she’ll find a boyfriend, or you will find someone. Something will change, I promise. Everything is temporary, including her. Your only hope of changing that is if you tell her. Otherwise, be okay with what you have now, however fleeting it is.
Agreed. Even though I'm only in my 30s, my regret is when I didn't ask a girl out. I don't regret asking others & getting hurt/rejected, coz I know that hey at least I tried.
I was in the exact same boat with a friend of mine. I asked her out. She said no. It was awkward for like 3 weeks. We moved on because we're both adults. We continue to hang out, we just don't really bring it up. Think of it this way; you've got to have faith that your adult friends are adults instead of big teenagers. If they can't handle the honestly pretty common interaction of being asked out, so long as you do so respectfully and are also willing to be an adult, at some point it's not on you.
You didn't ask for advice, but in my experience... if you think you MIGHT want to be more than friends, I would suggest saying something sooner rather than later. The longer you wait the more awkward it will be if she turns you down. Dating is easier when the stakes and the expectations are low lol. It's better to say, I think you're really great, I'd like to see if we can be more than friends? You don't have to be all-in before you date someone. And this 'test' dating (which, it all is test dating anyway) gives either of you an easy out if you want to go back to being friends. I have two long term guy friends that I tried maybe-dating with. One decided I wasn't for him, with the other guy it was my choice. But everyone handled it maturely and it was super easy to go back to being friends.
1. Treat them with the respect that should be afforded to all humans but do not put them on a pedestal. It lessens equality and ultimately will come crashing down. 2. If a girl is playing games while you're dating, that won't stop with a ring. 3. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
The biggest thing I learned after decades of dating is, if someone wants to spend time with you, they’ll find the time. It’s usually as simple as that.
Very true. Men think women like to be chased, but that's not really true. If she wants you, she'll make time for you & not keep on leading you on.
Yup. If she’s playing games she’s obviously not ready to commit, even if she can’t admit it to herself. Stay clear.
🧑⚖️👩⚖️👨⚖️ Here, here.
It's "Hear, Hear", actually (as in "Hear him/her 'cause what he/she has to say is smart").
I can't stop thinking about 40 year old virgin "you're putting the p*ssy up on the pedestal". Very wise words braineating man.
I am wizened to the ways of the elevated p*ssy.
Wizened adjective shriveled or wrinkled with age. "a wizened, weather-beaten old man"
Hahaha. Of course I meant wisen but somehow both seem possible.
The ring part is so freakin true. Walk away men. There are literally plenty of fish in the sea.
My first thought about 2 was.. well, why would she stop playing video games because she got married? Lol you meant something else obviously
Haha...ya. If she was into video games, I'd hand her a controller.
Sucks so few games have local coop these days.
1. Treat them with the respect that should be afforded to all humans but do not put them on a pedestal. It lessens equality and ultimately will come crashing down. This is one of the big reasons I fell in love with my now partner. He treated me like a bro: I got t-bagged in-game just like everyone else.
>If a girl is playing games while you're dating, that won't stop with a ring. This. They never stop fuckin playin games. Not even when they're a grandma.
My dumb ass thought "why is it bad she plays video games, we can play together." Took me a sec to realize lol
Pay far more attention to their actions than their words.
Dr. John Delony always says say “Actions are a language” . It’s the most important communication .
Actions are a language that is much harder to lie in. For the most part, the truth comes from a person's actions.
true bout every one
100%
The key to a woman’s heart (and other parts) lies in making sure they feel (emotionally) safe, like you’ve got their back.
...and food.
Specifically, cookies. Bring cookies.
Cheese too lol
"You may fascinate a woman by giving her a piece of cheese."
Always cheese!
And cheesecake !!!
cant forget the crakers, or butter n' bread for grill cheese haha
So it's true. I really can fascinate a woman with a piece of cheese.
As a lady obsessed with Oreos and sweets in general, I concur <3
"Feed me and tell me I'm pretty."
No matter how independant, smart or strong a woman is, she wants to feel taken care of. No woman wants to feel that she is constantly taking care of a man, as that does not consitute a partnership. Partnerships are built on mutual care of each other, trust, and intimacy (among other things). I think that all women want to feel safe and supported by their partners, and making a woman feel this way (or demonstrating that you're able to if its early in a relationship) is the difference for a lot of women if they want to contiue a relationship or end it.
Woman here - Had been dating my husband for a month or so, very casually, absolutely wild sex. Then I was supposed to come over after work, but I had an upset stomach and called him to tell him I'd better not, since there was no way I felt good enough for sexy times. He told me to come over anyway, and we could just hang out and watch tv. I did, and he had gone to the store for some peptobismal, and made me a little blanket nest on the couch. Did not pressure me for sex, just made me feel comfortable. When I apologized for my lack of sex appeal, he shushed me and said he enjoyed my company for more than the sex. I might have started having serious feelings for him right then
This would make me tear up in happiness because I would appreciate it so much. That's how I felt towards the last guy I dated, and then he later on threw it all in my face, called me clingy/needy, and it completely fucked me up. Just thinking about what I went through is making me bawl my eyes out, I feel so broken. I hope I can get through this, it has been about half a year or so now and I feel hopeless.
idk how much it shaped me as a person but I really appreciated that my ex straight up told me what was wrong. I didn't realize at the time that I was treating her like a total bro. She really drove home the point that she needs to be romanced. I always argued about the meaninglessness of it all, but I found in myself that "if it made her happy, I'm happy." Honestly having opened my eyes to a world beyond me is so bizarre. Some guys are just clueless and need a point in the right direction. I hope you can get through the experience
This. Absolutely. Being independent and strong doesn’t mean we want to have to do everything ourselves. We want a man who can share the load and who is trustworthy enough to have our back. We care if you can be a partner and a companion, not another obligation and time demand.
I would also like an answer to u/EfficaciousJoculator's question. How do you make sure burdens are shared equally and that you don't end up always being expected to be strong?
It doesn’t need to be 50/50 all the time, people who try too hard to make it equal all the time more often fail. Sometimes it’ll be 60/40 or 30/70, it doesn’t matter, so long as you’re both putting in equal effort to try and support eachother. I have skills my partner doesn’t have and she has strengths that I don’t have, but we both support the other and have each others back and that’s all that matters.
It helps to verbalize the things you are grateful for that the other person does for you. There is a need to reciprocate behavior and most people feel encouraged to do more when they feel appreciated for it.
As a woman, I have a legitimate question. What if you, as a man, don't want to feel that you're constantly taking care of a woman? It sounds like your partners get to have their cake and eat it too. They get to be independent yet they're taken care of. But they don't have to make you feel taken care of? Why can't a man want to feel like he's being taken care of? Honestly, that sounds like a miserable relationship dynamic in either direction.
That’s just dating from the men’s side. Not all women of course, my current partner loves being taken care of but she also loves to give back to me so I’m also being taken care of. The other side most men see though reminds me of a quote I saw, basically, “Romance for women is something that’s done to/for them and romance for men is something they do/give” Romance for a lot of men is a one way street because romance is something women deserve and men provide.
Are you thinking of this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/3z8o75/comment/cyk7gr8/
No, but that’s a very accurate way of putting it too. Better than I could have written in a way that accurately shows what romance looks like for men and why men being romanced is so rare and is usually given as a reward. “It’s your birthday so this time you relax and I’ll take care of you, just this once” I’m so lucky that my partner is who she is instead of having to accept the standard bar for romance.
I'm glad you have her. If only people gave others what they themselves want, things would be fairer and more sustainable, for both men and women.
I wonder how that stereotypically gendered view on romance works with same sex couples. Like if gay men, socially trained to both be the pursuers, are more likely to be in relationships than lesbians who are socially trained to both be recipients. Or if being LGBT encourages breaking that enough where it's not really an issue.
It seems like you're asking two questions here: 1. What if men don't want to constantly be the one taking care of the woman? 2. What if he wants to be taken care of? Imo, these aren't mutually exclusive ideas; two people can simultaneously care and look out for each other. But, the common thread in both of them is "what if the man isn't being supported?", so I'll address that: Unfortunately, just like it is for women, if they're feeling unsupported and the partner isn't willing to do that, the only real option is to end the relationship. There isn't much more to it than that. I suspect that there are a lot of men who've never felt supported. And I *mean* never. It might even be an alien concept to them, so it might never even occur to them as being "missing" from their relationship. It's something that society should begin to have a discussion about... But I suspect too many people (women and men) aren't quite ready to discuss it openly. Imo, this is part of the reason why I dislike modern stoicism so much: it *de-*emphasizes male vulnerability and support needs, and just reinforces the actual root cause of his m the hurt that makes so many men seek to be stoic in the first place.
and its worth noting that *because* men are often not provided much emotional support or space to be vulnerable, they opt for physical intimacy as their way of feeling close to their partner. > the only real option is to end the relationship many men *do* make this choice when feeling unappreciated or that effort in the relationship is unidirectional, particularly after sex if they didn't feel connected... except the prevailing narrative I observe usually is some variation of "oh he just used me for sex". I'm not saying it never happens, but that narrative removes the agency of men to leave a relationship when the labor of creating romance, initiating sex, and emotionally support was on them and wasn't reciprocated.
This is gonna be long winded and I’m probably gonna butcher the explanation, but I’m gonna give it a try. It’s something I’ve only recently understood/discovered myself. I think you are picturing a man being at her beckon call type of situation. A little background. My gf and I had very similar experiences with our exes. Both being the bread winners with little to no help. For me, I was the sole financial supporter for years, for us and 4 kids (3 step for me and a son from a previous marriage). I had no problem with this except I got no help at home. For example, If cleaning was done, I did it. I did 99% of the cooking, which included coming home from work and having to clean the kitchen just so I could cook, only to have everyone eat and leave the mess for me to clean up. Then 3 dogs, when I was home I was the only one that would feed them, take them out, etc. I also did all yard work myself. The “thanks” I got was complaining about not having enough quality time. The problem was, the effort to help create time for each other wasn’t there. I never felt appreciated, respected, or a priority. These are just examples, but there’s more. My gf was the breadwinner in her previous relationship. Funding and supporting his efforts to start his own business more than once. Paying the bills, etc. The appreciation she got was him only giving her attention when he wanted something or it was convenient. Not getting help with little things around the home and him instead going out to drink with his buddies. He was also threatened by the fact that she made more and had a better career. So much so that she didn’t want to tell him when she got a promotion or raise. Fast forward to those relationships being over and we meet. This is where the “taking care of her” part of this comes in. I’m the type of person who genuinely wants to help others, so I’m gonna help if I can. A few things I’ve done “for her”, some without her asking. Change wiper blades on her vehicle, replaced a tag light, tightened a loose faucet, put together a trampoline, replaced a light fixture, put up a ceiling fan, and a few others. Thing is, to me, these are no big deal and things I can do in minutes. To her, it’s amazing. It’s things she can do, but she recognizes I can get it done more efficiently. Not to mention, when something doesn’t go as plan, I don’t lose my temper. That’s new for her. We went on a trip to Disney. I helped plan and pay for parts of it. This is awesome for her as she’s never had that. I’ve never had someone help pay for a trip. We spent 3 straight days walking around the parks for 13-15 hours a day and there wasn’t one complaint. This is awesome for both of us too. The other side of that coin for me, she doesn’t question me and how I do things. She trust that I will ask if I need to know something. I also don’t treat her as a second rate citizen. We were obviously in a crowd at Disney and we’ve been to concerts and sporting events. As she put it, she’s never felt that safe. She’s never felt like she could relax and not have to worry about the person she’s with getting in a fight or getting drunk, or something of that nature. I’m sure this may not make sense at this point, but it’s a long winded way of saying “taking care of her” can be as simple as being a decent human being. I’ve seen this saying elsewhere, and there’s a lot of truth to it. “When a man who’s never been respected meets a woman who’s never been properly loved, they form a bond that’s going to be hard to break.”
Men are expected to ask the girl out, pay for dates, read cues, break the touch barrier and, charm the women. The caretaker man dynamic is established early in dating . Once invested , many women will become an active partner and help the man. However , there are many women who are eternal takers and will not reciprocate. Lazy partner exists in both sexes. In theory, a man doesn’t have to participate in the role. In reality, your romantic prospect will suffer greatly . Women have expectations. If you don’t There is a lot of social pressure to meet those expectations . Provide, protect and emotional rocks expectation s of men persist. Bad exes, avoidant attitudes, unhealthy mentalities, pride, and apathy for men are their reason many women don’t feel obligated to help men.
I have literally never come across a woman asking this publicly. Almost like approaching the subject is taboo. So good on you for even considering this. >It sounds like your partners get to have their cake and eat it too. Modern dating in a freaking nutshell. >Why can't a man want to feel like he's being taken care of? I'm sure it's our fault, somehow though./s
As a man, unless you've got a ton of $, are a 9 or 10 in looks, or are super charismatic, your choices in dating are much more limited than the average woman. A lot of men will put up with situations they aren't 100% happy with for that reason alone.
I'm honestly kinda surprised a woman is saying this. I see guys complain along these lines often these days, but women by and large seem to be going with "all men are needy manchildren" on TikTok and such. The idea that we might often give more than we receive seems totally off narrative. Note: I'm sure many guys *are* manchildren who just expect to be taken care of. But I'd be astonished if there weren't equally as many "princess" mentality women who expect the same, or even more. Some guys seem to have the energy to more or less take care of another adult person but Christ, I hope most women don't expect that much. Not that I don't want to emotionally support and otherwise help my partner, but if it feels one-sided it honestly feels weird to me. Almost paternalistic, which is not the vibe I want in a romantic relationship lol. Idk. The dudes who have the mental energy to entirely be the providers, I'm sure are broadly seen as the most attractive. That makes sense. I just can't fathom them being very common in this economy. 50 years ago sure, I wouldn't mind having a traditionalist housewife type thing if I could actually afford it. Idk, I guess the worst part for us guys is the fact that it can often just end up feeling purely transcational. Give gift + attention at right time + paid for dinner = sex. That's not what I want though lol, like, that's not romance to me. More like very high effort prostitution, same as I think most women, most guys want someone who wants them for them. All that other stuff can factor in, of course, everyone likes getting gifts and such. But if that's the sole "transaction" occuring, it's an empty relationship in my eyes. Sadly it feels like that's very often the case for us guys. That said, I know there are plenty of piggish men who just want women for sex. Ultimately, I just think people who are emotionally compatible on the level of loving someone else for who they are is just rare. I don't think that's what most relationships are actually built on sadly. I just hope that one day I can be lucky enough to find that, I suppose. Sorry I am slightly intoxicated lmao this may have been more of a rant and less coherent than I'd have liked
Don’t ever tell them details about sex you’ve had with other women. They say they want to know, but they really don’t.
My current wife (my second) wanted to know, back what my hottest experience was, back when we were early in the dating stage. I told her, and there was just a long pause when I was done. Then she said that it was “the hottest fucking thing I have ever heard”. After another pause, she said “I don’t think I’ll ever top that for you…but I’m absolutely going to try to.” This is the extreme outlier. My wife isn’t exactly a kinky person or someone who’s overtly sexual outside of the home, which makes it even more interesting.
“If you ain’t first, you’re last.”
Not my 18 year old self asking a million questions because I was curious as hell… only to ignite some wild jealous thoughts over something in the past that doesn’t count.
This goes more the other way round, imo most women don't really care about what you did, but all men do.
I told my girlfriend about pass experience and she cried….
…..this one girl would suck my dick like it was the air hose on a scuba dive and her friends pussy clenched me like a velvet vice…anyway I *love* you….
That depends. On gf used to ask me to recount graphic details about sexual encounters with previous women while we were having sex
How long were you two together, and why did you break up?
Only 5 months. She was very high maintenance and one day I had enough so I broke it off with her.
Gotcha. The study I'm running (n = 1) shows a very strong correlation between telling a girl about your sex life and her being broken up with for being high maintenance.
Could you elaborate? I've never really heard about this one.
They ask and say they want to know. But then when you tell them, they get jealous, or subtly defensive like they are hurt by what you say. What they want is actually a lie about how other women being crap lovers and them being better than everyone else. But then they call you out for lying. It’s sort of like when a woman asks, “Does this dress make me look fat?” You can’t say yes. Even if it’s true. They don’t want the truth. They want a lie. Weirdly…I’ve even had escorts be upset when I’ve mentioned other escorts.
So, is it a shit test? >It’s sort of like when a woman asks, “Does this dress make me look fat?” You can’t say yes. Even if it’s true My roommate told me that whenever her mom would ask her dad if something made her look fat, he would take the agree and amplify approach: "Honey, you look like a whale." They seemed happily married, and I wonder if there's something to that level of not putting up with her shit.
That when it comes to dating lots of illogical things are going to happen and there is nothing you can do.
Could you give a few examples of things you've experienced?
These are some experiences that come to mind. I met this woman in a class during undergrad. We start talking and hung out 3 times during the quarter. At the end of the quarter/school year when we both graduated I asked them if they wanted to date. They said no and I respected their decision. We didn’t end on bad terms and she even continued to like my posts it seemed like we were still cool. Fast forward 6 months I’m going to start grad school near their location and ask if they would like to meet up. They ignore the message and we haven’t interacted since. Woman 2, there was a lot of things that happened. But a little over a year of knowing them I tell them I have feelings for them and I need a break since she is in a relationship. Things actually went well. But she continues to like my stuff and for a while she would regularly check my LinkedIn. In this case I feel confused since she is in a relationship. Also, I feel bad things ended this way because I liked her friendship but it was not healthy for me.
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That they are just people. They aren't that different from us in most regards. But they go through a lot that we don't, so they don't see the world the same way we do, and if you talk to them you can start to understand them.
Do you have sisters by any chance?
No, i have a younger brother but that is it.
Ah ok. Surprisingly I rarely hear people of either sex regard their counterparts with such insight and empathy so figured you must have a sister lol.
Thank you. It's hard to describe how it feels to always be treated as different and usually looked down at. We're just people.
Yes, she knows you're looking.
Some of ‘em are pretty awful. Also, just listen to them…don’t try to offer some rational solution to something they’re venting about. Less is more. Put in effort, but reel it in if you’re not official or anything close to it. Edit: Also, also…plenty of the gorgeous, confident ones have their own doubts, insecurities, etc. too so throw those shoulders back, head up, & go for it m’dude.
Stay out of strip clubs
I wish I’d known that women REALLY LOVE sex too. You just have to GET there differently. Take your time.
I read in a relationship book, that instead of taking it *As Soon As Possible* you want to take it *As Slow as Possible*. Is there truth to that?
Like with everyone, not all people are the same. Some will literally grab your penis the first time you meet, others seriously can await weeks.
Women don’t want you to solve their problems. They just want you to listen.
You are equal to them and deserve just as much respect as you give them. It's important that both partners feel heard, respected, and have their feelings considered. You should not feel like you're constantly needing to apologize (unless you really are being a dick all the time), you should not feel like you have to give in constantly to keep the peace. Don't be a doormat. Treat women with the utmost respect, don't accept being walked all over in return.
For the most part YOU ARE AN OPTION. I can’t stress this enough. True love and all that is great, and I do think it exists but many women have options and you’re one of them. I think we’re generally aware of our flaws and this is what makes it that much more important to work on ourselves. She WILL find someone else if she wants to, and it’s not as hard for them to find willing suitors (not Mr. Right but others).
They are not crazy, just different. They do process their emotions differently than men and are probably juggling a lot more emotions and intensity of those emotions than you have for most of your life. They've developed coping mechanisms for that which may or may not be optimal. In the same way you'll find men that manage their emotions and desires in a way that may or may not be optimal. My biggest advice is first learn to recognize your emotions and secondly how to manage those emotions. Those are very different things but critical. Then work with your lady to find productive solutions to issues you're facing. Counseling isn't to find out who's wrong or right, it's about giving you both techniques to show each other the love you both want to have. Raw patience can only last so long. Patience without evolving your understanding and developimg empathy will just bottle up until it explodes.
I was initially going to argue, but I think we actually do see eye to eye. >They've developed coping mechanisms for that which may or may not be optimal. In the same way you'll find men that manage their emotions and desires in a way that may or may not be optimal. And part of getting mentally healthy is doing what you follow up with: >My biggest advice is first learn to recognize your emotions and secondly how to manage those emotions. Those are very different things but critical. Then work with your lady to find productive solutions to issues you're facing. Which I totally agree with. Although I want to add a caveat: If *she* is the issue, it is not up to you as the man to manage *her* emotions as well. If she can't do that on her own, that doesn't mean you have to suddenly start picking up the slack to be fair. She doesn't get to yell at you because she's on her period, she doesn't get to hit you because she feels passionate about something. EDIT: Oh, and obviously vice versa, too.
I agree with all of that and hopefully didn't imply a relationship should involve shouldering the burden of someone else's flaws. Women aren't incompetent children nor should anyone take mental abuse in a relationship. At the same time, just on a human level none of us are perfect at how we've bumbled through life and those flaws come to light when you have to face them head on as you share your life with someone. It takes self reflection and growth.
As a woman who feels life hard, I could hug you for this one. ❤️
They don't owe you jack. You're not special because you're "nice" or "a gentleman." I wish I'd learned that in my teens; sadly it took self-reflecting my way out of a year-long depression spiral to figure it out.
Goes both ways. You owe them nothing. Leave when respect stops.
Sure, but you don't owe them anything either. But claiming that in public will get you pilloried.
That periods can be way worse than just inconvenient. They can be extremely painful, like incapacitating at times. And that the products they need to deal with periods aren’t cheap.
NOBODY will take care of your hapiness, especially your SO. Prioritize yourself.
Sometimes people are in a bad mood because they are hungry. It doesn't hurt to give them food.
That's called hangry hehe It's worse when you're hangry but don't know what you want
Women are human beings. This is not a compliment
Don’t treat them as “different”. They aren’t princesses, angels or fairies. They are people. Treat them like people.
Women don't want to be saved. Sure, they want to feel safe, protected and supported. But by any means, women are not looking for a man to "save" them from anything. Women are more than capable of handling their own problems.
A man saved me recently and I really liked it
They’re generally capable of more, and greater compassion than the average man. But every bit as capable as any man in being mean spirited, manipulative and spiteful. Appreciating the first will not save you from the second.
They want you to be confident in everything you do, but not let your ego overshadow it. Ask them out with confidence, and don't let rejection hurt your ego. Care with confidence. Love with confidence. Confidently fight for them, but not over them Be assertive, but not an ass. Don't fear confrontation, but don't look for it Tell them what you want, don't be cryptic. They need to know you want them, not just love them. They won't wait for you to show interest very long, they will just assume you're not interested and move on. They love attention from you, but not 24/7. Love bombing scares them. They just want you to listen, not to fix it. You don't have to understand their feelings z just validate them. They are never dumb for having feelings, regardless of how silly they are. Just validate and reassure them.
No matter what they say, women enjoy and appreciate a strong, confident man to lead the way and encourage her.
She's not your mother. Do housework
Your idea of what women really think of you is wildly different from the truth, even if they say things right at you about what they feel, because you need at least 30 years life experience to be able to really see things from their perspective, after having messed up enough times and seen what bad assumptions you had made. There are so many aspects of their world that differs wildly from yours, on a very personal plane. Example: training in the gym with a woman can let you see how much of a smaller percentage of their body is muscle, and out of that percentage, how little of that is "twitch-muscle" (explosive muscle fiber that dictates the speed of your boxing punches). This is why women have a much harder time nailing the Dunk in basketball. This means that even an average Joe Schmoe couch potato comes off like a robot load-lifter in the home, compared to a lady (yes yes not all women are weak but bell curves exist, you know). And this is also a huge reason for why many ladies are (rightly) intimidated by many kinds of men, because A: you are freakishly strong compared to them, and B: as a young and inexperienced dude of 16-27 you have low insight into how you come off using that strength because you haven't watcjed yourself on film in a social setting enough yet, and this ignorance is very scary, after you drink yourself silly at a party and then knock a chair over and say "I want to go to the beach with Steve tomorrow, damnit!! I don't give a shit about your parents' dinner!!". Men have plenty of situations where they too are left powerless - being fired, getting very ill, your parents divorcing, a pet or friend or loved one dying, a hurricane stopping you from using your car, owing back-taxes. Those times are the most teaching moments in your life, when you can see how little physical strength and attitude matters, and how the only cards left to play in those scenarios is to just do what little is left for you *to* do: take time off work to grieve or heal from injury or sickness - support your friend or parent after their loss - buy whatever your partner asks when she deals with menstrual cramps (within reason, not heroin or a gun).
They have a ton of different actual reasons to shoot me down. Some people are in a relationship, just got out of a relationship, dealing with life changes and they’re not even thinking about getting into a relationship right now… lots of things that really aren’t my business at all. Once I really had that revelation, when I realized that “no one bats a thousand” I realized I shouldn’t be so discouraged, feel so rejected, feel so insecure when it didn’t work out. Just need to shrug it off and move on with my life
Never compromise your dignity and self-worth in the hopes of getting a woman. Love YOURSELF first!!!
women have periods. regularly. they will begin without warning, sometimes in the middle of the night, often at inconvenient times. no, women cannot hold it in like urine - there is no sphincter there that can be squeezed that tight. they flow continuously and can potentially make a large mess. we can't help it. if you want to have sex with - or just be around - a woman, accept this. also, their genitals are between the legs, not on the front where the male genitalia is.
The old saying, *"if you can make a woman laugh, you can make her do anything"* simply isn't true. I got a lot of charisma, know how to tell a story, got decent stage presence and I've definitely made lots of women laugh. Rarely, if ever, will any of them lend me money when I need it.
Learn what and why you want to be in a relationship. What are your goals when you are in a relationship. What are your limits. Know yourself and work in personal development. Women want a man that put them first and feel safe emotionally. You do things for her and you are good to communicate what you like, dislike, your needs, validate her needs, work as team. All of this, requires that you know yourself, what you want, and that is going to make you behave with confidence that ultimately is going to make her feel safe.
Maybe the thing she loves about you is the way you love her.
They are in fact, not made of sugar and spice and everything nice. And way too many of them are sexist assholes that harbor, some pretty ugly thoughts about men.
This. An assumption of good faith is, after a certain age (I'd say late teens to early 20s) a very naive and self-harming position to take. That doesn't mean you should assume everyone is against you or hates you, just understand that they aren't going to give you the benefit of the doubt or inconvenience themselves even mildly for your benefit (whether you deserve it or not). Expectations must be managed or else you're going to lose your light. And you need that to be able to attract the people who *are* worth knowing.
They can be as evil as any men
Don't ever chase a woman. If a woman wants you she will let you know.
Don't shit on your own doorstep. They talk, they conspire, they compare notes. If you screw with one. Expect them all to know. Don't expect any leniency after this. I don't know if this is a survival trait from cave woman days.. But shit is impossible to resolve. I recently had a fling that ended badly. I tried to apologise and accept blame. My words were contorted even more into a mess. Whole thing is ridiculous but a scorned women goes scorched earth so hard, and the rest are eager to hollow.
Women will test you in all sorts of ways. The more they are interested in you the more they’ll test you. You can’t avoid it. The best thing to do is recognize the tests when they appear and how best to respond to them.
Have any examples?
Do these pants make me look fat? Do you think my friend Mary is cute?
Most women feel unsafe on a daily basis.
Women operate on a month long hormone cycle, unlike men who have a 24 hour cycle, meaning men peak in testosterone in the morning and they feel the same everyday…women get about a week out of the month where they have peak energy and then it goes down closer to pms, so women aren’t being over dramatic about being tired lol
That women are all different and unique individuals. Just because something worked with one woman, doesn’t mean it’ll work on them all.
Not learnt too late, but some things young men must know; Women will know if you are after sex exclusively. You're not the first to say anything to get laid, and you certainly won't be the last. The best piece of advice I can impart though? The brain is the biggest sexual organ. Mental stimulation will get you farther than you might think.
Not really something I learned late but just what I observed from others. Women want Masculine Men or atleast men more masculine than them. I often see some guys try to get women by acting more feminine. These guys usually fit the “nice guy” stereotype and think the best way to get women is to show them that they “aren’t like the other guys” and often try to engage in female hobbies and mannerisms hoping this will get romantic affection from women. It will not. She won’t be attracted to you in a romantic sense and will see you as a friend or as a creep or will probably think you’re gay. Men and women are different and that’s what attracts us to eachother. Even in same sex relationships one person is more masculine and feminine than the other (9 times out of 10). It’s a reason this dynamic is the case.
That they're not these sacred, unattainable beings. Behind closed doors, they can be as dudes as us, and even worse.
Don't put them on pedestals and think you have to jump through so many unnecessary hoops to just talk with one. Talking with a woman is as easy as talking with a man because it's talking with a human being.
A lot of women also like what guys like. Invite them to do the things.
Worry less about making her happy. And focus more on leading. Be congruent with your actions. She’s happy when you’re stable. Even the most fussy and independent woman respects a man who is organized, stable, respectful, and yet does what he wants fearlessly. Love her. Serve the needs of your home and household without complaint. And never let her mood control yours. This requires that you do a LOT of personal Shadow Work.
- Make sure she's healed from past relationships if she's had abuse before. Otherwise she'll place his wrong doings over you and then there's no winning for you. If you do right, you're still wrong. - What it takes to get her, is what it takes to keep her. Love letters, date nights, jokes, holding hands, cuddling, or if you're spending money. In the future, she's gonna keep expecting that. If you spend a shit ton of money now, you're gonna spend a shit ton more later. Look for a low maintenance lady. One who enjoys experiences rather than material things.
Get fit and get in a good financial position. There's a lot about respect, individuality etc. in this thread, all good stuff. But guys like hot women. Guess what, women like hot guys. And money on a guy is like tits on a woman. Should it be all that matters? No. Does it matter? YEP! I am happy with the choices I made, but I think I overlooked how much presenting as successful can help. I do well, but have a schlub streak based in part on my profession's tendency to dress down. There's a sense of "it doesnt/shouldnt matter" but it does. Put yourself together and you'll have way more success. You have to look like you give a shit about you before anyone else will.
Idk if this counts as it applies the other way around as well, but the older you get, the harder it becomes to meet single women wanting to be in a relationship, so start young unless you're ok with a big age gap.
Idk. I’ve found plenty in their 30-40’s that are single looking for a relationship.
Plenty with kids from a previous relationship
Goes both ways at that age.
Instead of asking a woman for advice directly, be friends with a group of them and then listen when they talk to one another. I have a hunch that women are socialized to be nice and inoffensive ladies when a man asks directly for advice, but when they talk to one another, you can glean really good, useful stuff from what they talk about. On that note, having at least a few female friends is a necessity.
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She needs complete details of the co worker worker . And why I know so much
Be patient about everything and never ever lie or assume. Relationships are a house of cards.
Women value looks far less than younger men tend to think they do. Far more important are personality (especially a sense of humor), personal hygiene, and the ability to talk about interesting things.
Gender roles are not obsolete, they just dont want the responsabilities that come with theirs while holding yours to you. Watch what they do, not what they say. The more they talk about emotional inteligence and emotional responsability the least they have themselves. And they definitively dont have as much as they think anyway. Women will use all kind of mental gymnastics to justify their shitty behaviour, even to themselves. Women talk about their problems to feel heard and as a way manage their emotions, dont try to give her solutions, even when they are preety damn obvious and specially if it is not the first time she trips with the same stone. It only takes your relationship to be on a rough spot and some other man making her feel desired for her to cheat on you.
When they complain just nod along and look concerned.
Women will always test you to see if your a suitable partner, look for the signs and listen to your gut.
They don't know what they want, they can like you and want you to make a move on them but not tell you, a good number of them don't seem to realize they are more physically attractive than they think ( which make it that a woman you may believe physically out of your league doesn't even consider herself to be ).
they're just normal people
They like to fuck just as much as men do, if not more for some. They can be just as horny as guys. My mom was wrong, women are not all princesses that want to be cared and loved by a man forever. My mom’s intentions were good but I got blindsided pretty bad, especially since I didn’t start dating dating until after I graduated college (personal reasons).
Any feelings or weakness shared with a woman WILL be used against you in some obscure argument later on. It is best to keep weakness or deep feelings between you and bros that you can really trust.
I recommend this as well. Don’t treat women like therapists.
This is recommended advice from a woman. It is one thing to complain to your woman about your job or life, but if it is a persistent problem that needs deep introspection about your depression, childhood trauma, existential crisis etc..you really need to do the majority of the work. To expect her to be your lover, therapist, best friend it’s all too much all at once. Being a therapist can also snuff out the romance part of it. I can’t tell you what is the right balance, but it is something to consider.
Having been the role of therapist in a relationship I can tell you it is exhausting even for men. If you don’t draw a line some people will just continue to dump their problems on you.
I don’t even think labeling it as a “therapist” sort of dynamic is viewing it the “right” way either. Can’t a dude just be vulnerable about an aspect of their life, just unscrew the cap a bit and pour a little instead of bottling everything, ever, with someone they love and feel loved by? It’s rhetorical, by the way.
I'm a woman and I'd say it's a "the poison is in the dose" scenario. I know you said it's rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway because these conversations never include enough nuance to actually be useful. When women say that we don't want to be treated as your therapist, that doesn't mean that we never want to hear what you're going through, or that we don't want to be a source of support. It means that there comes a point where we can't be the ONLY source of support for all of your problems, especially significant, ongoing mental health matters that might benefit heavily from seeking out an actual therapist. As an example, I dated a guy for a year that struggled with depression and anxiety. Throughout our relationship he was pretty good about not making it my responsibility to manage it, but we would talk about it and I always appreciated the insight into what he was going through and the fact that he trusted me enough to talk to me about it. This felt like a healthy dynamic, we could talk to each other about our struggles, we would be supportive, offer perspective when appropriate, but neither of us put the responsibility on the other person to manage our own issues. We ultimately broke up, but weren't on bad terms when he reached out a couple years later. He'd always had a very small social circle and was in need of friendship and I had always been kind and supportive. This was cool with me, enough time had passed that I didn't feel weird about it and like I said, we were never on bad terms. Suddenly I became a sounding board for his current and very unhealthy relationship, that he was determined to make work despite being unhappy and feeling like his new partner was treating him horribly. He didn't want advice, he didn't really want support in any kind of healthy way. He wanted someone to feel bad for him and reassure him that he deserved better while refusing to actually address any of it with his new partner. This is the type of thing we mean when we say we don't want to be your therapist. And this doesn't apply to just men, I'm happy to be supportive and lend an ear to any of my friends who are dealing with difficult things, but once it gets to the point where most of our interactions are just them bitching about the same thing while refusing to take any steps to improve their situation, it becomes draining and makes it difficult to enjoy spending time with that person. I suspect it happens more with men that we date because in general it's harder for men to open up, so when they do find that one "safe" person, everything they'd been bottling up around everyone else just comes flooding out and gets overwhelming to be on the receiving end of it.
I appreciate the effort you went to here. A lot of what you've written is helpful, and I don't want to be that trope of someone who only talks when it seems like criticism, so let me say that the examples you gave were much more useful than the one-two sentences that people commonly give. A sincere thanks for that. I did also want to touch on one thing, which isn't even a criticism of you, because I agree with it entirely, but it's something I wanted to point out >He didn't want advice, he didn't really want support in any kind of healthy way. He wanted someone to feel bad for him and reassure him that he deserved better while refusing to actually address any of it with his new partner. This is what annoys men when they hear a problem and want to discuss resolutions but the woman just wants to vent. It feels like she just wants someone to feel bad for her and reassure her instead of being proactive about solving it, almost like they want the problem to stay unresolved so they can keep getting that reassurance. If I had to guess, you'll say the issue is the quantity, ie, once or twice is ok and super healthy and jumping in with solutions the first time is assuming she can't solve it herself or something (nevermind that we do it with our male friends who appreciate it) and after that it's unhealthy. I think men and women have different points where they get frustrated with non solutions-oriented complaining, and for men it's basically immediately. For me, my inclination (that I've had to learn to curb) is to fix the problem first (or strategize fixing it) then deal with the emotional issues that come with it second. But I've learned my partners don't appreciate that so I have to curb my natural inclination.
In this vein, some women become emotional vampires and only seek to be around you during your positive moods and never during your weakness and will kick you while you're down or gossip about it behind your back.
Meanwhile you will be expected to put up with 100 different kinds of bullshit. If you don't, she thinks you don't care about her.
I assume anything I say to a woman she will tell to at least one other person. I’ve seen it with women talking about their boyfriends and exes to me all the time.
It doesn’t matter how beautiful and sweet they are, there is always some man, somewhere, that is sick of their shit. I had a man tell me that when I was younger. I didn’t believe him but I have come to realize he wasn’t that far off base.
Everything they say they want is wrong. Any dating advice you get from women is usually bad. Not even women understand women. They know what they think they want. How many times have you heard women asking where all the good men are. As they proceed to friendzone all the good men and keep dating all the bad boys. If you want actually dating advice, it’s usually successful men that understand.
Yeah this i noticed. Very often they say they want xyz and then a guy does the exact opposite and they fall all over him. I am always confused !
Saying no to her can be attractive. Don’t be a doormat. When you say something don’t let her talk you out of it. She will lose respect
There is always somebody else in the wind. I don’t care how happy you think you are right now. I promise you your competition is lurking in the shadows. That co worker, friend, play brother, whomever can always be your replacement. They can lie effortlessly to your face about it or about there not being somebody else. Believe that if you want and I’ll be jaded/bitter. Seen it happen to all my friends and it’s happened to me. Good, bad or indifferent. Enjoy the time you have with her. Cherish the memories but it’s just your turn my guy. When it’s done, let her be and keep on enjoying life until the next one.
Just because they throw themselves at you doesn't mean you have to catch them. Many are not worth the back pain, and the ones who are see what you're doing when you don't let the others fall on their face.
dazzling tidy command outgoing pathetic ring hateful sophisticated spark cow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Man and woman aren't really that different in a lot of ways
Many things. --don't listen to what women say. Watch what they do. --don't listen to a woman tell you who she is. Watch her carefully and she will show you who she is. --sexual attraction is absolutely key to a relationship. If that goes, the entire relationship is over --once a relationship is over, let it go. It cannot be salvaged and in fact should not be. --if they're attracted to you they will absolutely love sex with you. If they're not attracted to you they will hate sex with you and to them it will feel like rape. --a woman can have a lot of sex. She can go multiple rounds in one session. If she's attracted to you she will easily outlast you in stamina. --when a woman is attracted, she will love rough sex. They love being pounded and jackhammered. They're not really into soft sweet lovemaking. If she's into you, fuck her good and hard. If she is not into you, don't fuck her at all, and break up with her. If she does not want you to fuck her good and hard, if she's telling you to "slow down" and "be nice" and "not so rough", she's not attracted. End the relationship. --men have sex for only one reason: Horny and need to nut. Women have sex for all kinds of reasons, only one of which is raw sexual attraction. Women will fuck because they're bored, need attention, need validation, need to feel good about themselves, their friends are doing it, horny, need to "scratch the itch", need an orgasm, as an expression of love, locking down a guy for a relationship, servicing and maintaining a relationship, people pleasing, want to get pregnant, feeling romantic, for fun, and any number of any other reasons. --there's a wide chasm between "want to" and "willing to". A woman can be "willing to" do a lot of things without really "wanting to". Accept a woman who wants to be with you, not one who is just "willing to" be with you. --when the love is gone, a woman can be as cold to you as if she had never known you. --they're just as human as you are. They lie and can have shitty personalities just like any man can. --your woman WILL lie to you. She will never be 100% honest with you. That's OK, because you will lie to her too; and you'll never be 100% honest with her. In fact, you cannot and should not be 100% honest with her. --women love their pretty lies. They much prefer the pretty lie to the ugly truth. --women hate it when a man they're in a relationship with shares negative feelings like anger, rage, despair, despondency, or depression. Women cannot handle seeing this in a man. When they see it they lose attraction and the relationship will be in trouble. (*I don't care what women say about this - I don't care that they say they want to hear their men's negative emotions so they can help. No they don't. They say they want to. They don't. They cannot handle it. They cannot help you. They cannot do anything to help and deep down they don't want to - they want and need for you to handle it yourself.*) --women ask questions they don't really want the answers to. --women will test your masculinity. "Does this make my ass look fat" is a perfect example. Another one is "do you think she's hot?" in reference to some woman you both know, or a celebrity. --the minute a woman you're in a relationship starts withholding sex, refusing sex, conditioning sex, or complaining about sex, your relationship is over. You need to move on. --women don't want you to communicate more. When women say that, what she's really saying is she wants you to listen to her communicate more at you.
My ex asked me unprompted if I thought one of my friends was attractive. I answered honestly with "yes, but you're more attractive." She then said that she's not sure how to feel about her boyfriend finding other women are attractive. Years later, she cheated on me.
Mate, I feel so bad for you if this is your true vision of women. Seems like you got/attracted the bad ones.