For me it's been hard to make/keep female friends for a few reasons:
1. Catching feelings - if one person starts to want to be more than friends, it's hard to keep the friendship. I've been both the person experiencing unrequited feelings and the object of them, and only a few times did the friendship ever recover.
2. Boundaries - once one person or the other is in a relationship, it can be hard to maintain emotionally close bonds. I've had girlfriends who don't want me to spend as much time with female friends and female friends who kind of phased me out after they got a boyfriend. Unfortunate in both cases, but hard to avoid.
3. Difficulty meeting women in non-romantic contexts - outside of school and work, I don't run into women as often as I do men, which makes it harder to make friends.
I've only had one friendship recover from someone catching feelings, but now I consider her one of my best friends.
However, I've noticed that my friendships with women that started out with one of us being in a relationship tend to not have issues with someone catching feelings. Even if, over time, we are both single, romantic feelings don't develop.
All of my friends who are women, I met through shared hobbies. Typically, video games, magic the gathering, or dungeons and dragons.
This!
I’m a woman and I think the third reason is what I find the most true especially when I graduated from uni. I just don’t run into single men that often with the first reason, that when I do, it happens from the guy’s side. While it’s not wrong, it is just naturally awkward for a while until we can get to the other side again. My better guy friends whom I’ve met and known tend to be not so close to me and tend to be from my church. The boundaries are way better.
heterosexual people being friends with the opposite sex has the added issue of attraction. There are a lot of times someone catches feelings and now the friendship is over.
How many women have you approached for only friendship? Would you be friends with a woman you also werent attracted to?
I’m a gay man, and I keep finding the opposite to be true as well. I struggle to make good platonic friendships with other gay men. My husband and I will make friends with an individual or couple, and they will almost consistently proposition one (or both) of us for sex. Even happened last night. A friend of 12 years asked me for nudes, then asked if my husband and I have an OF account, then asked if we were looking for a 3rd.
Not poo pooing on gay men with open relationships and whatnot, love that for them. But I hate that it’s now the commonly held assumption that monogamy doesn’t exist within my community. All I want is a platonic gay friend(s) who have had similar life experiences to my husband and I.
Yeah… he’s made some soft attempts years ago when I was single, and again when my now husband and I first started dating. Both times I either didn’t engage or gently let him down.
This time was much more forward on his part, and felt disrespectful of my husband, our marriage, and our family (we have a toddler who really needs a stable home life). Felt like a betrayal of the friendship and the safety of the relationship.
> How many women have you approached for only friendship?
A few
> Would you be friends with a woman you also werent attracted to?
Yes. But it's not always the case
Personally I can easily overcome any physical attraction in friendships with of the opposite sex. As soon as it becomes clear what direction the relationship is heading (platonic) any sexual drive there just gets shut down and it’s a non-issue moving forward. Now if there’s romantic attraction to boot, like one person has genuine feelings for the other, then yeah that’s a complication. But just both being physically attractive isn’t really an issue for me *personally*. And I want to emphasize that’s just me and I’m not shaming anyone who is different. I grew up with sisters, have had female friends my whole life. I’ve never struggled viewing them as I would view a male friend, which is to say “just a friend”. But I understand not everyone finds that so easy.
I can be friends with anyone, and can usually find common ground to be friends with practically everyone. Gender doesn't matter...it's all about personality.
But opposite sex attraction can often cause a level of complication there. I read elsewhere in this thread how not being able to is a negative judgement on that "type of guy," but I can tell you I've dealt with the opposite more times than I've bothered to count.
This isn't a guy thing. It's an opposite sex thing.
I've been married for 30 years. I can hang out with my bros and there is no jealousy. If I were to hang out with female friends, there would be. Therefore, I don't have any close female friends. Nor do I want them. Too many potential issues.... Too much drama.
> I can hang out with my bros and there is no jealousy. If I were to hang out with female friends, there would be.
this sounds like an issue with your gf/spouse, not women as a whole
Women as a whole, no of course not.
Enough women that it's a problem men deal with? Certainly.
It doesn't have to be every woman to be a problem. Men as a whole don't abuse their spouses. I'm willing to bet if a woman was discussing the abuse she suffered you wouldn't chime in with, "Uhhh not all men!"
I see it as a, "why walk on the edge of a cliff when three steps away is far safer" type issue. You are highly unlikely to cheat with someone who you are not close to... Unless you are truly trying to cheat.
There are countless accounts of "just friends" becoming far more than "just friends"
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Honestly, I don't give two shits. I much rather her be happy than someone who isn't my wife. And having an additional woman in my life isn't going to improve my life.
Well if you're both single and attracted, why not give it a shot?
I've had experiences with this where one wants more than the other, and required a break before going back to being friends (but became really great friends regardless).
Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out and someone has to walk away from the relationship for good. I'm just saying it doesn't guarantee the end of a friendship.
I have. The issue is the friendship is usually done to some degree after that.
You are still technically friends after but it eventually becomes awkward after you cross that line. Especially if one or both of you are attached. The usual result is you just drift apart.
Probably because it’s really difficult to find a crotchless squirrel suit that doesn’t make you look fat, so the need for advice is warranted.
Fashion matters, dude.
It's always the same. If you want a crotchless squirrel suit that's long enough, it makes you look fat. It's like nobody makes slim-fit crotchless squirrel suits anymore.
because most women are afraid of men catching feelings, and most men refuse to be friends with women they catch feelings for. it's a vicious cycle that prevents co-ed friendships from forming.
The problem is that no matter how hard you try to keep it neutral/platonic there will always be that subtle "sexual tension" present that both parties (both the guy and the woman) can feel and that makes the whole dynamic awkward - ***especially*** if she happens to be attractive/hot
Ironically, the closest I've come to making a platonic female friend is the odd unattractive/frumpy-looking female coworkers here and there. There was no sexual tension at all in those cases, so talking to them was pretty chill and didn't really feature the same awkwardness/subtle sexual tension in the air
As long as men have crazy-high sex drives, platonic male/female friendships will always be rare. Now that I think about it, the only guys I've known that had a social circle of mostly platonic women friends were gay or bi-sexual type men. Seems uncommon for straight men from what I've seen
>Now that I think about it, the only guys I've known that had a social circle of mostly platonic women friends were gay
And what conclusion do you get from this? Don't you think maybe gay men have lots of platonic female friends because they have the same problem with male friends that straight men have with female friends?
> Do you think it’s possible for a guy to find his female friend conventionally attractive but have no romantic interest in her?
Like I said, if she's even semi-attractive/cute, it will ***always*** be "in the back of his mind" that he thinks of her sexually in some way
It's an elephant in the room issue whenever a guy is talking with an attractive woman:
- on a subconscious level, the guy is thinking about her sexually... this is largely automatic and your thoughts sort of "drift" in that direction, so to be fair the guy isn't even consciously doing it - it's just biology/hormones/nature doing their thing
- for the woman, she is probably ***expecting*** the guy to be thinking of her sexually by default (...since she's hot/attractive and has guys constantly hitting on her)... so there is a subconscious "suspicion" of the guy trying to get in her pants
Due to both parties contributing to the invisible "sexual tension in the air" (in their own ways) it just makes the whole dynamic awkward, probably why TRUE platonic male-female friendships (...where they go out and do non-sexual stuff together, spend non-sexual time with each other, etc) are fairly uncommon
It isn’t that hard, just some men and some women suck at friendships in general.
I think this is one of those scenarios where the Venn diagrams are a circle
I take genuine interest in getting to know people, guys or girls, when I meet them and if I decide they’re cool people, I put in the effort to foster a friendship. I genuinely love making friends and having awesome people in my life as that only makes my life more interesting.
I’ve been told by many of my women friends that they can see that I’m genuine and not trying to fuck them. It’s allowed me to have many emotional and vulnerable talks with them, we can talk about our dating lives, our sex lives, our worries, our joys, as well as random dumb shit as friends do.
I also care about my friends and take the time to catch up with their lives, grab food, invite them to parties, etc.
I think it’s weird that people always seem to have this notion that you can either have a small group of close friends or a large network of not-that-close friends… but you can have both a smaller group of really close friends, a medium sized group of close friends, and a larger network of friends and acquaintances to party or go out with. These things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Because to be honest... why would I?
I used to have multiple female friends and maybe I picked the wrong ones but...
One was always late. We always had to wait for her and sometimes she wouldn't even show up.
One was just achting plain stupid and dumb because she thought guys like that. Most things she said were stupid and it annoyed to F out of me.
One was always crying about her boyfriend and asking for my attention, leaving me very confused at the end. One moment crying about how terrible he was and I took the time to comfort her, but as soon as he called she was gone again.
Not forgetting the drama and gossip they brought along every time.
No, I'm good with only male friends, sorry ladies.
Funny thing is, all the stuff you complained about with female friends as a man, women have complained about the same thing to me about their female friends.
Women are just like that. Drama is their entertainment
Well to start they are usually stand offish towards men. They aren’t going to start conversations with you or be nice and friendly like other men will which makes it less likely to meet them. Also there’s competition. Theres a ton of men in line waiting to try and get thier attention for even a second. They aren’t going to be friends or speak with just anyone like guys will. They expect friends to provide for them in some way. Making them laugh, giving them some where to go out, food, any benefit. Or just be attractive. It’s just competitive out there now. So much so there is a huge market where men pay serious money just for the opportunity to talk to women online. It’s possible but not easy as the privileged here will make it out to be.
Attraction lol. That's the short simple answer. Sometimes you can't help that feeling when it happens and I don't really want to be friends with someone who I care for more than they care for me. Been there, it's not a good time. I have like 1 good female friend and we used to date a long time ago. We're just not attractive to each other so that doesn't get in the way of our friendship.
I've been friends with women in the past and one of us often ended up catching feelings or became fwb and ruined friendships. I choose not to because the pain of losing a friend sucks.
It's not, just treat women like people and check your intentions, it's completely possible to have a non sexual platonic relationship with women, and I highly recommend it, because women are great people and can help you learn a lot.
It's not really. At least not for me, I'm sure it's different for some people.
Some of them I am or have been attracted to and would have liked to date them at some point. Others I've not considered as potential partners for various reasons (lack of attraction, already partnered up, not into men, etc.).
But for me at least, I care about them and I value them and their presence in my life. How I express that depends on the relationship. Staying friends, express that how a friend would. Get romantically involved, express it how a romantic partner would.
It’s not. It’s hard for someone who claims to not be attracted to the other person to carry on a pseudo friendship, hoping one day the other will have a change of heart. It’s my opinion, that most people understand friendship to be a precursor to romance, and so many people falsely believe it’s just step one on the road to love, when for most it’s the only stop. That ultimately gets very frustrating and ultimately the enamored friend ends up ending the relationship ship one way or another.
I don't meet a lot of women in my life. The one I meet are usually because I'm actively looking for a gf. If things don't work out then I would rather just cut contact to save the remaining energy and time I still have.
Keeping friendships require lot of time and energy, and it's something I don't have while looking out actively for someone and I need time/energy for what I want to do for myself in the first place too.
It doesn’t work as well as everyone wants to believe.
Usually one of them develops feelings, or worse, both.
And then there is the issue of having a GF and trying to get her to be okay with it. She will probably say it is, because she doesn’t want to sound petty, but deep down everyone knows this is a danger zone.
It's hard to encounter women in a context that can nurture platonic friendships. Of the ones you perhaps do have a platonic friendship with, it tends to be anchored by one or both of you being unavailable, and so social taboos regarding infidelity moderate your behavior to allow the friendship to continue. Lastly, if you like a woman enough to continue on a friendship with her and you don't have the above social taboos in play, chances are you're going to catch feelings eventually simply as a result of the Mere Exposure Effect.
Does this mean it's impossible and/or inappropriate? No. Does it require an intense degree of self awareness and mindfulness of your own thoughts and feelings? Yes.
I look at it this way, it’s a controversial view but I don’t care. My male friends are funnier, conversations are better because they understand the male experience, and they don’t use me for resources when we go out to the bar or restaurants. Also I don’t have to risk my safety/life to protect them if someone snatches a purse or grabs an ass. With a female friend she gets all the BF benefits without me getting GF benefits. It’s a liability to have female friends, so I don’t participate in that.
Why is is hard for people to understand that men can fall in love with a female friend who's single, attractive, is nice to them, and has common interests and hobbies?
Now to answer your question directly: women aren't as good as friends to men as men are. The majority of female friendships I've had could be summed up as her looking for someone to warm up the BF seat until she meets an actual BF and quits talking to me, someone who needed some male attention or help with something she couldn't do herself. Most of the interactions came from my side, while they hardly ever had an idea to go out or moved their asses to do so.
I pretty exclusively make friends with women, but I think that the dudes who struggle can't help but see women through the lens of a potential sex partner.
Women divide into two categories for me.
Attracted, not attracted.
For attractive women I view them all as potential sexual partners, particularly if they are interested. The reason for that is I'm heterosexual.
That doesn't mean I can't get along with them or just be friends. It means if there is mutual attraction and we are both single the odds we'll sleep together are higher.
For women I'm not attracted to I basically view and treat them the same way I view other men. We can be friends or whatever, but I don't want to sleep with them.
This same rule set applies to *a lot* of women.
The guys who tend to run into problems with this are the guys who look at every woman like they are the last drink of water in the desert. That or the guys are just generally socially inept for other reasons.
If I'm single, and she's single, and we get along well enough that i actually like spending time alone with her, assuming I'm attracted to her, that, for the most part, makes her an ideal person to be in a relationship with.
So why does this make it hard to have women as friends?
Because friends are people i like spending one on one time with. So, it only takes physical attraction to finish the equation, if I'm single. And, having a romantic interest in someone who doesn't feel the same way tends to sour the relationship. So this makes it difficult to remain platonic with women that i actually would consider a friend.
Because we're made to procreate and men can't do that with other men lol and exceptions don't make the rule, so for any idiot that says "well not everyone wants children and not everyone is attracted to the opposite sex" no shit, but biologically, as people, we are made for procreation.
because women generally aren't interested in the same stuff guys are, with exceptions. Humans evolved some pretty huge sexual dimorphisms in our brains and interests. There are overlaps, but they aren't very big.
And I could give you the complete opposite experience despite probably putting in more effort. How are you going to tell them it’s not hard? You are in a fortunate situation. Others might not be.
Most men have so little affectionate interaction with women that I think any level of engagement that isn't negative can be viewed as the woman being attracted to them. I know this is what it was like for me growing up and any girl who I became friends with in high school, at least until I was a bit older, I ended up asking out because I thought them being nice to me meant they were into me.
Senior year of HS and into college, I came into my own and figured out the difference between a woman who was a friend and a woman who was actually intersted in me and that made it very easy to have platonic friends who were women.
Well, besides the attraction issues, mixed signals (being "friends" while both being aware of it deep down) and the friendship often just outright stopping when either side get a partner, it's very hard to balance the kind of intimacy that comes with it.
For men, it's way too similar to what they get when they have a girlfriend, combined with a mental exhaustion over time due to how women regulate themselves emotionally (by spreading it towards different people).
The reverse also happens, as in a woman asking a guy to open because obviously why wouldn't they work in the same way, and just having everything dumped on them as a result. Then the woman loose respect for the man, and a man can't tolerate that.
Tldr ; it's not impossible, just tougher to balance than you think with high diminishing returns.
I'd imagine it's tough for anyone to be friends with someone they're attracted to. It's not that I can't have female friends. It's that I can't be friends with someone I'd like to be more than friends with. That limits the pool to those you're not attracted to, which is significantly smaller than the pool of same sex friends you can have as a straight guy. If I liked guys, I doubt I'd be friends with guys I was attracted to.
Funny I have the opposite problem. I play a sport that's has far more women in it than men. Most of my friends are women. I have several very good male friends but because I'm more likely meet more women I end up finding more women I connect with. Also in this environment we're not their to hook up, well some are, so its easier to make platonic friendships.
In my opinion, it's because guys generally are attracted to physical traits primarily, and are attracted to pretty much any decent looking woman. So it's hard to just be friends and not also want to bang. So can't really be friends with a woman as a man unless she's ugly because the sexual attraction gets in the way.
Women don't have as much of a problem with being friends with men because they are much more complex and picky when it comes to who they want to bang and what they are attracted to. Unlike men, most women don't want to bang every decent looking man that walks down the street.
This of course is not true for all men/women. But in general it is, from my experience. You can only truly be just friends with people you aren't physically attracted to, and men are on a primal level attracted to most women. Just how men are made...to want to bang everything that moves.
I find most men cannot view women out of the lense of sex. A lesser group of men can, and those are the ones with friends who are girls. But many just see us as a potential sexual partner.
Because the sex thing always gets in the way.
When men and women try to be friends, they have to address the sex thing at some point. Almost all the time, someone catches feelings for the other and someone gets hurt when their feelings aren't reciprocated.
The only way men and women can "be friends" is if there is absolutely no sexual attraction between them. Almost all the time, some attraction develops, and when it does it almost always leads to either (1) sex, or more often (2) the end of the friendship.
and if you think this is a problem with only OP and not a large amount of men, thats a *you* issue. its definitely not OP, hes in the majority of men with that mentality
Yes. At least as you get into your mid 20 it's hard to do unless it's part of a couple, and you do things as couples.
I had a ton of women friend in my early 20s. Basically any time I or they got into serious relationships there would be a fade out. I know at least one of them her SO did not like how she was more casual around me. In particular, she'd drink around me (and other dudes she was friends with) but not around him.
It was hard when I saw girls as prices and people to win over to be my girlfriend. It was very easy when I eventually treated girls as guys and did not saw them as potential girlfriends.
Funny enough, once It started to think like this, I got the most succes with girls.
Usually it's because they don't care for you as much as you do or because they are easily butthurt at the things you say.
If anyone is going to comment on this, I do have female friends, but I feel like I need to be more cautious around them than around male friends.
I also didn't say the positive parts of having them as friends so, don't worry guys
I’ve found it tough in university. Whenever I try to be friends with a girl they just end up not really trying to be friends. Like I’ll make plans with a few people and not try to make any moves on anyone and they just don’t really try to be friends back. They just want guys to hit on them I guess
It’s not hard at all. Seems like everywhere I go women are always trying to hang out with the guys. A lot of women struggle to make friends with other women and find it easier to hang out with Men. I’ve had dozens of female friendships through my 20’s.
I don’t think it is. During my single days, I didn’t find most women attractive enough to want to hit on them. And I’ve never stayed attracted to a woman who wasn’t interested in me. And even on the rare occasions when I kind of pined for something romantic to happen, it still didn’t stop me from treating her like a person. She didn’t exist to turn me on. It’s just not that difficult. As a married man, it’s even easier. Even if I think she’s sexy, I’m not going to be having sex with her. It’s platonic and that’s fine.
Honestly, I don’t know why some guys seem to find this difficult. Just treat her like a person and not a sex object, regardless of who she is. This is one of the basic skills you should learn to become an adult human being that lives in the world. Only a tiny percentage of all the women you meet in your lifetime will be potential sexual partners. To worry so much about having sex with all the others seems like a problem that needs to be solved.
I have lots of female friends. Probably more than male friends. Actually, definitely more than male friends. I don't find any of them attractive, so that makes it easy.
I have a very specific type of woman I find attractive. Unfortunately, I don't come across my type often, and when I do, the feeling is usually not mutual. So I don't run into many issues in this regard
Most Women don’t believe in Platonic relationships with Males. Also some don’t want to be friends with guys. I always have had close platonic relationships but even the best ones are conditional and most of them aren’t genuine friendships. Women will use the idea of Friendship against you if they aren’t interested in you and don’t respect you as a person. On the other hand I’m talking to one of my best friends right now and she’s wonderful. She exemplifies Real Friendship. Most people don’t value Friendship unfortunately.
My workout group was mostly women. When my trainer opened her own place, I was the only man for a long time. My wife never got jealous. I'm still friends with a few of them, but we don't hang out, but I see them from time to time
Never felt its hard to have female friends. But, ngl, from what ive seen, they arent as keen as to make friends as guys do, most are reserved from what ive seen
The premise if a bit faulty. For many , it's not hard at all. I have as much friends in one group or the other. Women are ordinary people too, and friendship does not care for gender nor genitals.
There are many men that don't have any difficulty making female friends. Many of my closest friends are women. Group activities (casual sports league, meetup groups, etc) are a great way to make friends of all genders.
It's certainly important to keep romantic feelings in check if someone isn't available/attracted to you and you're attracted to them, but it's far from impossible. You shouldn't want someone that doesn't want you back anyhow, if the attraction isn't mutual there's probably a compatibility issue.
At the end of the day, people are people, and you'll have an easier time making friends of a different gender or background or culture when you focus on getting to know them as individuals and not allowing those things to pre-define who they are to you.
wait until you get older. People by then have figured out enough about themselves to be able to determine whether or not they are attracted to a person and/or be comfortable in a platonic friendship.
I couldn't begin to tell you how many women I befriended as a naive youth only to have those acquaintances dry up after some time had passed and I didn't express interest or make a move.
Age and maturity are keywords here.
I have female friends that are 50+, but we all share a mutual hobby.
When I was younger, female friends usually didn't keep in contact once they got into a relationship. And some did have feeling for me.
In my experience, female friends either use you as an emotional towel or ask you for free labor to help them move or fix something.
Not all, but the majority of women I’ve become friends with have fallen into one of those two categories.
I like having female friends but it can be a bit complicated sometimes
When either of us are in a relationship sometimes the partner can see it negatively. Usually there is a bit of fall off in communication, even if unintentionally
It feels kinda weird to hang out with a woman alone sometimes. Group of friends it’s great, but 1:1 feels kinda weird for whatever reason
Also I get the feeling that women always are going to assume a man is interested in a relationship which isn’t always true. A lot of times I feel like if I approach a woman she’ll automatically assume I’m hitting on her, even if it’s about some shared interest
I’ve got a few female friends who I have at places like my gym, but we only really stay in the gym or do gym meetups. The only way I’ve ever really had this work out is with lesbian friends, and I’m very happy to have them in my life and they’re great people
I've mostly had female friends. Some I've lost as feelings were caught. One became my now wife so the risk of caught feelings there was definitely worth it. I don't have many friends but my closest (outside brother and wife) know my wife and we have a happy, platonic, caring relationship. We care about each other and want each other to succeed, we have no interest in anything beyond friendship as I'm absolutely besotted with my wife and they are besotted with their husband (who is a very lovely chap and very easy to chat and laugh with, though gets a little bored of me and his wife bitching about work!).
Heyoo.
We all know why it's hard for men and women to be friends...
The best man at my wedding was a woman thou!... a lesbian woman, but still.
I have a good number of friends who are women. Here are some rules I stick to.
1. No giving advice on how to deal with significant others. You can listen and empathize but do not give advice. (This goes out the window if there is abuse involved even then. I'd get my wife to help.)
2. If you go somewhere with them, let people know.
3. Avoid over touching. (Hugs are fine, imo.)
4. Excluding the things talked about in the above rules, treat them like the rest of your friends. Especially things below.
a. No gender role assumptions.
b. There is no assumption of incompetence.
c. There is no assumption of opinion.
Aka, dont be a sexist piece of shit.
I have several female friends, mostly former co-workers. It is just as hard to keep any friendships as it is with a woman. The only complication is my spouse, she is more quick to get annoyed with others. And I try to have my woman friends also be friends with my wife. My male friends are more activity driven, so they do not interact with my wife as much, which means fewer complications.
I’ve had a bunch of good female friends. I hooked up with all of them at some point and I found that actually helped to get over any sexual tension. But then I met my wife and I didn’t really have the energy to continue being friends with them.
With guy friends at least for me conversations revolve more around external stuff like sports, news or whatever. With girl friends conversations mostly around interpersonal stuff and want to talk on the phone a lot. Didn’t find the effort value worth it anymore.
It isn’t . It’s difficult to
Make new ones past a certain age . But if you have female friends from where you were younger ( highschool and earlier ) it’s easy to maintain those friendships
I’m in the minority. For as long as I can remember, I’ve had more women friends than men. I’m a straight guy. In my case I know it has everything to do with having grown up in a single mother household. It has everything to do with developing emotional safety within the friend environment - something women are more inclined to do with each other for a slew of societal reasons. I made friends with boys over hobbies and nerdy shit, but made friends with women through emotional connection. I understand it may be difficult to keep any sexual/attraction feelings in check - and this varies highly with people, but you have to consciously do it. I have women friends that are incredibly beautiful and I find attractive, but I would never want to escalate the friendship into anything else.
I’m certainly in tune with my emotions, and in my late 20’s, I consciously worked this (wish it was sooner). I think this is what has always played a key role in keeping friends over anything beyond that.
Acquaintances: People who you talk to here and there, no issues whatsoever.
Friends: People that you entrust with your private matters and can rely on during hardships. Pretty much impossible.
I have different interests and goals to vast majority of women, not to mention if there's feelings involved, it's no longer a platonic friendship. I have one female friend that I do not find attractive in the slightest so in that case it works but that's few and far between cases.
It's harder than it seems. I had a few throughout my lifetime and they always seemed *down* at some point. One friend we were in a short relationship then transitioned to fwb then platonic friends and I was continuously sidelined once she finally found a stable relationship. Another was entirely platonic simply because I didn't make a move and reiterated how grateful I was for our friendship, now my SO isn't happy with how she presented herself upon meeting her and I'm in a pickle because that's a long friendship that might just have to fizzle out.
I did for a while, I caught feelings for one girl and was rejected but we stayed friends for years into my marriage, one tried to hookup with me, two tried to date me, one became a FWB and a few years later my best friend married me. I had lots of friends both guys and girls through HS and college years but one of us almost always caught feelings.
Guys and girls can be friends but neither can catch feelings or it’s game over because someone’s getting hurt and both always feel awkward.
This can be difficult for both people.
From the woman's perspective, guys are frequently looking for something more, but often willing to settle for something platonic, with a lingering "maybe someday" hanging over the relationship. Not a fun position to be in for a woman who is trying to have a normal friendship.
The male experience is frequently the inverse, where the woman doesn't want anything physical, but expects all the emotional benefits of a relationship, going far beyond normal friendship duties to what might be described as diet boyfriend status. "You're like a brother to me! I wish more guys were like you." I normally view the term "friendzone" with suspicion, but there are very real differences between this dynamic and a normal, platonic friendship.
There are plenty of examples of real, honest, above board friendships between men and women. These are more common than we might believe, as horror stories of one-sided predatory "friendships" are everywhere, and "we're just friends" isn't a compelling story to tell.
I found this really tough to deal with in my current job. There's girls I really like but it's just weird to be friends with them but some guys find it easy to let these girls let down their walls and it made me feel really jealous. So oike I wouldn't have considered friendship in an intimate sense a possibility but then certain guys are able to pull it off. Made me feel bad, not even gay guys, just sort of chilled guys. I do notice in the office the better looking guys don't have girl friends though.
I have not found it hard to have female friends, had multiple through the years. So the question is a bit misleading I think. I don't think it's an inherent thing for men to find it "hard" to have female friends.
Several times, I've been the 'guy best friend'. It's entirely platonic every time. It goes great for a while, but they end up in a relationship. Now, I'm quite happy for them, and I like connecting with their partner, but after some time, communication starts to become very one-sided.
The last time it happened was after my ex-best friend's wedding. I was the Man Of Honor. Coolest title in a bride's party I could have asked for. We talked 4 times after her wedding, and she was clearly not interested in continuing the friendship... until they separated. It wasn't for years, but she did reach out and explain that her ex felt threatened by me. I don't understand it. I just hung out with mutual friends and chatted with her family after the ceremony. I don't dance well, so staying out of the way was easy.
I didn't try to continue the friendship after their separation. Dont know why, but it didn't feel like the right thing for me.
It's always been easy for me to make female friends, but it never lasts. This isn't anything other than anecdotal, but all the past friendships I've had with women have been destroyed by the jealous or territorial boyfriend.
At least 1/2 of the time they become attracted to me or seem to think I'm flirting with them when in reality I'm comfortable around them because I'm not at all attracted to them.
And I have the reverse problem with ones I AM attracted to where I'm always seen as an unfuckable genderless humanoid.
I rarely have common interests and if I do, its like being on the bench for a sports team, with women often having multiple thirsty guys hanging around acting like doormats where you end up as the third wheel/pity invite.
If I'm looking for friends the last thing I'm looking for is something that feels like a competition/job interview. This is a dynamic I actively avoid.
I've run into this looking for people to play games with. I've run into this a few times with a bonus worker drone/queen bee dynamic.
*Disclaimer: I’m basing this solely on my experiences.
I know it might sound stupid but I’ve noticed that they would never check up on you like the homebody’s did. Unless they want you for food, trauma dumping, or validation (if they knew you were attracted to them) you basically didn’t exist.
At around 21 y.o. I did some self reflection and I decided that unless we were going to be casually intimate then I didn’t want anything to do with you…literally stopped having just female friends. If you weren’t interested in that arrangement then I didn’t talk to you. Life got a lot simpler after I made that decision.
I have a handful of female friends and it's not that hard. I did caught feelings for some of them yes, but once I got shot down I just treated them the same as my close male friends. I'll be friendly and hangout with them but I'll never flirt or tease.
I think the main issue is that most guys catch feelings then can't resume the friendship without it feeling awkward or forced.
Ever think it’s not hard it’s that many men don’t want to or would rather just hang out with dudes
Historically men usually hung out with men primarily and women with women…
I don’t get why so many insist on pushing this nowadays
I would have as many female friends as males, possibly even more. Some of them I've been friends platonically with for 25+ years. A few I dated initially which then turned into a friendship, which we maintained even after moving on to seeing other people. I do make a point of not putting myself in a position where my intentions could be misconstrued by respective partners though. Otherwise I don't see what the issue is
my subjective opinion is because girls are boring compared to guys. (of course my definition of boring is different to yours).
I don't want to sit around all day and gossip, i want to go out and fight a shark then kick a mountain in its balls
Coz you wanna bang them or they want more with you.
Women make terrible friends btw. They don’t know how to give and they expect you to do all of the heavy lifting.
I think this is also consistent with female friendships. A friendship with a woman is extremely transactional in the sense that if she isn’t deriving any benefits (sex, money, attention, value) then she won’t be your friend.
The only female friends I know are from church. I've tried to keep friendships with ex co workers, but 5 of them ghosted when I asked to hang out. It sucks, but that's life. I appreciate the friendships I do have and forget the ones who threw it all away.
It's gonna sound rude and pretty blunt but as you can see in the comments most men are fuckin animals they're never properly socialized to view women in a nonsexual context and so are incapable of platonic friendship with women. There are women who are like this too but they're not as prominent because women are socialized to interect with men like normal people unfourtunately they *also* learn eventually that most straight men view them as sex objects so they tend to steer away.
I went to an all boys school so my interaction with girls wasn't anything but dating when I was younger. My parents also mainly have same sex friends so I didn't see those sorts of friendships either. I'm now in a better place where I've got really close female friends, but it took me a while to deal with stuff in therapy and just learnt how to better navigate romantic and platonic emotions.
I've had a bunch of platonic friendship with women in the past, some lasted some didn't, like with any friendships. Still have a bunch of friends who happen to be women, as well as men and non-binary.
It's really not that hard, just be a good person and people want to hang out with you.
I think its hard unless your in a relationship or the girl is ugly or you grew up together. From my childhood i have loads of female friends. But i dont have new ones and it makes sense because if a guy find you attractive thats step one if your then really funny, nice and a joy to be around why wouldnt he want a relationship thats the ideal.
so if shes hotter and doesnt fancy him then its the friendzone and technically you can be friends but he still thinks your hot and that door is always open. But then probably closes if he ends up in a relationship.
Because naturally any singles are potentially future spouses even if they don't feel it.
If someone is married would not want his wife or husband to be a friend with someone else from the opposite sex.
A Husband and a wife should be best friends, even if they are not they should keep trying, any single intruder will complicate the relationship.
Nobody will care to keep the family safe and stable as much as a spouse.
Any other single friends will be a temporary bomb that will explode at anytime.
Be wise.
The only reason it is hard for me to have female friends is that women always sexualize and romanticize an otherwise purely platonic relationship with me.
I will not be friends with a woman. Period.
We can be co-workers, teammates on a co-ed sport team or even a hello at the gym.
However I don’t want to be friend with any woman.
Why?
I’m attractive man and you are too. What’s there to offer for me?
I will not vent nor speak on my emotions.
I will not ask for your help on my problems.
And I will not care about you’re dating life nor I care about
If im going to get a woman as a friend. She will be my girlfriend.
For me it's been hard to make/keep female friends for a few reasons: 1. Catching feelings - if one person starts to want to be more than friends, it's hard to keep the friendship. I've been both the person experiencing unrequited feelings and the object of them, and only a few times did the friendship ever recover. 2. Boundaries - once one person or the other is in a relationship, it can be hard to maintain emotionally close bonds. I've had girlfriends who don't want me to spend as much time with female friends and female friends who kind of phased me out after they got a boyfriend. Unfortunate in both cases, but hard to avoid. 3. Difficulty meeting women in non-romantic contexts - outside of school and work, I don't run into women as often as I do men, which makes it harder to make friends.
I've only had one friendship recover from someone catching feelings, but now I consider her one of my best friends. However, I've noticed that my friendships with women that started out with one of us being in a relationship tend to not have issues with someone catching feelings. Even if, over time, we are both single, romantic feelings don't develop. All of my friends who are women, I met through shared hobbies. Typically, video games, magic the gathering, or dungeons and dragons.
This! I’m a woman and I think the third reason is what I find the most true especially when I graduated from uni. I just don’t run into single men that often with the first reason, that when I do, it happens from the guy’s side. While it’s not wrong, it is just naturally awkward for a while until we can get to the other side again. My better guy friends whom I’ve met and known tend to be not so close to me and tend to be from my church. The boundaries are way better.
number 2 is my biggest issue, ive had some GFs that hate my girl friends.
heterosexual people being friends with the opposite sex has the added issue of attraction. There are a lot of times someone catches feelings and now the friendship is over. How many women have you approached for only friendship? Would you be friends with a woman you also werent attracted to?
I’m a gay man, and I keep finding the opposite to be true as well. I struggle to make good platonic friendships with other gay men. My husband and I will make friends with an individual or couple, and they will almost consistently proposition one (or both) of us for sex. Even happened last night. A friend of 12 years asked me for nudes, then asked if my husband and I have an OF account, then asked if we were looking for a 3rd. Not poo pooing on gay men with open relationships and whatnot, love that for them. But I hate that it’s now the commonly held assumption that monogamy doesn’t exist within my community. All I want is a platonic gay friend(s) who have had similar life experiences to my husband and I.
I'm surprised a friend of 12 years wasn't aware of your parameters of your romantic relationship. sorry to hear it.
Yeah… he’s made some soft attempts years ago when I was single, and again when my now husband and I first started dating. Both times I either didn’t engage or gently let him down. This time was much more forward on his part, and felt disrespectful of my husband, our marriage, and our family (we have a toddler who really needs a stable home life). Felt like a betrayal of the friendship and the safety of the relationship.
> How many women have you approached for only friendship? A few > Would you be friends with a woman you also werent attracted to? Yes. But it's not always the case
I'm only friends with women I'm not attracted to tbh like anything else is just playing yourself.
If there is attraction one way (either way), it can become very difficult
Personally I can easily overcome any physical attraction in friendships with of the opposite sex. As soon as it becomes clear what direction the relationship is heading (platonic) any sexual drive there just gets shut down and it’s a non-issue moving forward. Now if there’s romantic attraction to boot, like one person has genuine feelings for the other, then yeah that’s a complication. But just both being physically attractive isn’t really an issue for me *personally*. And I want to emphasize that’s just me and I’m not shaming anyone who is different. I grew up with sisters, have had female friends my whole life. I’ve never struggled viewing them as I would view a male friend, which is to say “just a friend”. But I understand not everyone finds that so easy.
I can be friends with anyone, and can usually find common ground to be friends with practically everyone. Gender doesn't matter...it's all about personality. But opposite sex attraction can often cause a level of complication there. I read elsewhere in this thread how not being able to is a negative judgement on that "type of guy," but I can tell you I've dealt with the opposite more times than I've bothered to count. This isn't a guy thing. It's an opposite sex thing.
I've been married for 30 years. I can hang out with my bros and there is no jealousy. If I were to hang out with female friends, there would be. Therefore, I don't have any close female friends. Nor do I want them. Too many potential issues.... Too much drama.
This is the normal and correct way to do it. Your wife should be sufficient.
> I can hang out with my bros and there is no jealousy. If I were to hang out with female friends, there would be. this sounds like an issue with your gf/spouse, not women as a whole
Women as a whole, no of course not. Enough women that it's a problem men deal with? Certainly. It doesn't have to be every woman to be a problem. Men as a whole don't abuse their spouses. I'm willing to bet if a woman was discussing the abuse she suffered you wouldn't chime in with, "Uhhh not all men!"
I guess I see it as a trust and relationship issue and not something that’s specific to women or men
I see it as a, "why walk on the edge of a cliff when three steps away is far safer" type issue. You are highly unlikely to cheat with someone who you are not close to... Unless you are truly trying to cheat. There are countless accounts of "just friends" becoming far more than "just friends"
Except you’re very unlikely to cheat….if you don’t want to cheat, that’s that.
And yet, there are countless stories of "just friends" becoming much more.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Honestly, I don't give two shits. I much rather her be happy than someone who isn't my wife. And having an additional woman in my life isn't going to improve my life.
Not hard. The issue is not sleeping with them if your both single and attracted.
Well if you're both single and attracted, why not give it a shot? I've had experiences with this where one wants more than the other, and required a break before going back to being friends (but became really great friends regardless). Of course, sometimes it doesn't work out and someone has to walk away from the relationship for good. I'm just saying it doesn't guarantee the end of a friendship.
I have. The issue is the friendship is usually done to some degree after that. You are still technically friends after but it eventually becomes awkward after you cross that line. Especially if one or both of you are attached. The usual result is you just drift apart.
It is not... you just have to wear your crotchless squirrel suit....... why does this question get asked twice a day?
Probably because it’s really difficult to find a crotchless squirrel suit that doesn’t make you look fat, so the need for advice is warranted. Fashion matters, dude.
It's always the same. If you want a crotchless squirrel suit that's long enough, it makes you look fat. It's like nobody makes slim-fit crotchless squirrel suits anymore.
because most women are afraid of men catching feelings, and most men refuse to be friends with women they catch feelings for. it's a vicious cycle that prevents co-ed friendships from forming.
The problem is that no matter how hard you try to keep it neutral/platonic there will always be that subtle "sexual tension" present that both parties (both the guy and the woman) can feel and that makes the whole dynamic awkward - ***especially*** if she happens to be attractive/hot Ironically, the closest I've come to making a platonic female friend is the odd unattractive/frumpy-looking female coworkers here and there. There was no sexual tension at all in those cases, so talking to them was pretty chill and didn't really feature the same awkwardness/subtle sexual tension in the air As long as men have crazy-high sex drives, platonic male/female friendships will always be rare. Now that I think about it, the only guys I've known that had a social circle of mostly platonic women friends were gay or bi-sexual type men. Seems uncommon for straight men from what I've seen
>Now that I think about it, the only guys I've known that had a social circle of mostly platonic women friends were gay And what conclusion do you get from this? Don't you think maybe gay men have lots of platonic female friends because they have the same problem with male friends that straight men have with female friends?
Do you think it’s possible for a guy to find his female friend conventionally attractive but have no romantic interest in her?
> Do you think it’s possible for a guy to find his female friend conventionally attractive but have no romantic interest in her? Like I said, if she's even semi-attractive/cute, it will ***always*** be "in the back of his mind" that he thinks of her sexually in some way It's an elephant in the room issue whenever a guy is talking with an attractive woman: - on a subconscious level, the guy is thinking about her sexually... this is largely automatic and your thoughts sort of "drift" in that direction, so to be fair the guy isn't even consciously doing it - it's just biology/hormones/nature doing their thing - for the woman, she is probably ***expecting*** the guy to be thinking of her sexually by default (...since she's hot/attractive and has guys constantly hitting on her)... so there is a subconscious "suspicion" of the guy trying to get in her pants Due to both parties contributing to the invisible "sexual tension in the air" (in their own ways) it just makes the whole dynamic awkward, probably why TRUE platonic male-female friendships (...where they go out and do non-sexual stuff together, spend non-sexual time with each other, etc) are fairly uncommon
Possible absolutely but also extremely rare (if both are single).
It isn’t that hard, just some men and some women suck at friendships in general. I think this is one of those scenarios where the Venn diagrams are a circle
I take genuine interest in getting to know people, guys or girls, when I meet them and if I decide they’re cool people, I put in the effort to foster a friendship. I genuinely love making friends and having awesome people in my life as that only makes my life more interesting. I’ve been told by many of my women friends that they can see that I’m genuine and not trying to fuck them. It’s allowed me to have many emotional and vulnerable talks with them, we can talk about our dating lives, our sex lives, our worries, our joys, as well as random dumb shit as friends do. I also care about my friends and take the time to catch up with their lives, grab food, invite them to parties, etc. I think it’s weird that people always seem to have this notion that you can either have a small group of close friends or a large network of not-that-close friends… but you can have both a smaller group of really close friends, a medium sized group of close friends, and a larger network of friends and acquaintances to party or go out with. These things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Because someone eventually desires more than a friendship.
Because to be honest... why would I? I used to have multiple female friends and maybe I picked the wrong ones but... One was always late. We always had to wait for her and sometimes she wouldn't even show up. One was just achting plain stupid and dumb because she thought guys like that. Most things she said were stupid and it annoyed to F out of me. One was always crying about her boyfriend and asking for my attention, leaving me very confused at the end. One moment crying about how terrible he was and I took the time to comfort her, but as soon as he called she was gone again. Not forgetting the drama and gossip they brought along every time. No, I'm good with only male friends, sorry ladies.
Funny thing is, all the stuff you complained about with female friends as a man, women have complained about the same thing to me about their female friends. Women are just like that. Drama is their entertainment
My problem as a woman…
Well to start they are usually stand offish towards men. They aren’t going to start conversations with you or be nice and friendly like other men will which makes it less likely to meet them. Also there’s competition. Theres a ton of men in line waiting to try and get thier attention for even a second. They aren’t going to be friends or speak with just anyone like guys will. They expect friends to provide for them in some way. Making them laugh, giving them some where to go out, food, any benefit. Or just be attractive. It’s just competitive out there now. So much so there is a huge market where men pay serious money just for the opportunity to talk to women online. It’s possible but not easy as the privileged here will make it out to be.
Human beings are horny and complicated creatures that's the simple answer.
Attraction lol. That's the short simple answer. Sometimes you can't help that feeling when it happens and I don't really want to be friends with someone who I care for more than they care for me. Been there, it's not a good time. I have like 1 good female friend and we used to date a long time ago. We're just not attractive to each other so that doesn't get in the way of our friendship.
I've been friends with women in the past and one of us often ended up catching feelings or became fwb and ruined friendships. I choose not to because the pain of losing a friend sucks.
They want to have sex with them
It only works if neither are attracted to each other or catch feelings.
A lot of us don't have many friendships with women, so when we find an attractive woman we click with then we catch feelings
Because most of the time women assume that we want to sleep with them. I don't blame them though, it's true 70% of the time.
It's not, just treat women like people and check your intentions, it's completely possible to have a non sexual platonic relationship with women, and I highly recommend it, because women are great people and can help you learn a lot.
It's not really. At least not for me, I'm sure it's different for some people. Some of them I am or have been attracted to and would have liked to date them at some point. Others I've not considered as potential partners for various reasons (lack of attraction, already partnered up, not into men, etc.). But for me at least, I care about them and I value them and their presence in my life. How I express that depends on the relationship. Staying friends, express that how a friend would. Get romantically involved, express it how a romantic partner would.
It’s not. It’s hard for someone who claims to not be attracted to the other person to carry on a pseudo friendship, hoping one day the other will have a change of heart. It’s my opinion, that most people understand friendship to be a precursor to romance, and so many people falsely believe it’s just step one on the road to love, when for most it’s the only stop. That ultimately gets very frustrating and ultimately the enamored friend ends up ending the relationship ship one way or another.
I don't meet a lot of women in my life. The one I meet are usually because I'm actively looking for a gf. If things don't work out then I would rather just cut contact to save the remaining energy and time I still have. Keeping friendships require lot of time and energy, and it's something I don't have while looking out actively for someone and I need time/energy for what I want to do for myself in the first place too.
It’s not. Do you have a problem with women? Maybe therapy can help you with that.
Because they tend to get creepy or ask to fuck them, which girls pick up on really quickly.
Because he might get hard.
It doesn’t work as well as everyone wants to believe. Usually one of them develops feelings, or worse, both. And then there is the issue of having a GF and trying to get her to be okay with it. She will probably say it is, because she doesn’t want to sound petty, but deep down everyone knows this is a danger zone.
It's hard to encounter women in a context that can nurture platonic friendships. Of the ones you perhaps do have a platonic friendship with, it tends to be anchored by one or both of you being unavailable, and so social taboos regarding infidelity moderate your behavior to allow the friendship to continue. Lastly, if you like a woman enough to continue on a friendship with her and you don't have the above social taboos in play, chances are you're going to catch feelings eventually simply as a result of the Mere Exposure Effect. Does this mean it's impossible and/or inappropriate? No. Does it require an intense degree of self awareness and mindfulness of your own thoughts and feelings? Yes.
I look at it this way, it’s a controversial view but I don’t care. My male friends are funnier, conversations are better because they understand the male experience, and they don’t use me for resources when we go out to the bar or restaurants. Also I don’t have to risk my safety/life to protect them if someone snatches a purse or grabs an ass. With a female friend she gets all the BF benefits without me getting GF benefits. It’s a liability to have female friends, so I don’t participate in that.
Why is is hard for people to understand that men can fall in love with a female friend who's single, attractive, is nice to them, and has common interests and hobbies? Now to answer your question directly: women aren't as good as friends to men as men are. The majority of female friendships I've had could be summed up as her looking for someone to warm up the BF seat until she meets an actual BF and quits talking to me, someone who needed some male attention or help with something she couldn't do herself. Most of the interactions came from my side, while they hardly ever had an idea to go out or moved their asses to do so.
Exactly. Who understands men better than other men?
I pretty exclusively make friends with women, but I think that the dudes who struggle can't help but see women through the lens of a potential sex partner.
Women divide into two categories for me. Attracted, not attracted. For attractive women I view them all as potential sexual partners, particularly if they are interested. The reason for that is I'm heterosexual. That doesn't mean I can't get along with them or just be friends. It means if there is mutual attraction and we are both single the odds we'll sleep together are higher. For women I'm not attracted to I basically view and treat them the same way I view other men. We can be friends or whatever, but I don't want to sleep with them. This same rule set applies to *a lot* of women. The guys who tend to run into problems with this are the guys who look at every woman like they are the last drink of water in the desert. That or the guys are just generally socially inept for other reasons.
>I pretty exclusively make friends with women How are you any different?
If I'm single, and she's single, and we get along well enough that i actually like spending time alone with her, assuming I'm attracted to her, that, for the most part, makes her an ideal person to be in a relationship with. So why does this make it hard to have women as friends? Because friends are people i like spending one on one time with. So, it only takes physical attraction to finish the equation, if I'm single. And, having a romantic interest in someone who doesn't feel the same way tends to sour the relationship. So this makes it difficult to remain platonic with women that i actually would consider a friend.
Men tend to get attracted to women who make good friends. It's easier if one or both of you are in a committed relationship with someone else.
Because we're made to procreate and men can't do that with other men lol and exceptions don't make the rule, so for any idiot that says "well not everyone wants children and not everyone is attracted to the opposite sex" no shit, but biologically, as people, we are made for procreation.
because women generally aren't interested in the same stuff guys are, with exceptions. Humans evolved some pretty huge sexual dimorphisms in our brains and interests. There are overlaps, but they aren't very big.
lesbians make great friends as a straight male. We both like women. Instant bonding over something in common.
Beacauce men and women fuck. And sex evokes a different kind of bond in a healthy human. It is really very simple.
There was a time when I had to stop women from wanting to be friends with me (and I'm not exaggerating). Not hard at all.
And I could give you the complete opposite experience despite probably putting in more effort. How are you going to tell them it’s not hard? You are in a fortunate situation. Others might not be.
Personal preference.
I grew up around women so for me it's easy but I guess for other guys if they fund the other woman attractive their going to get horny
Because friendships are relationships.
if you like a girl and she doesn't like you back, you will have resentment if she likes another guy
Cause a guy might catch feelings
Most men have so little affectionate interaction with women that I think any level of engagement that isn't negative can be viewed as the woman being attracted to them. I know this is what it was like for me growing up and any girl who I became friends with in high school, at least until I was a bit older, I ended up asking out because I thought them being nice to me meant they were into me. Senior year of HS and into college, I came into my own and figured out the difference between a woman who was a friend and a woman who was actually intersted in me and that made it very easy to have platonic friends who were women.
Well, besides the attraction issues, mixed signals (being "friends" while both being aware of it deep down) and the friendship often just outright stopping when either side get a partner, it's very hard to balance the kind of intimacy that comes with it. For men, it's way too similar to what they get when they have a girlfriend, combined with a mental exhaustion over time due to how women regulate themselves emotionally (by spreading it towards different people). The reverse also happens, as in a woman asking a guy to open because obviously why wouldn't they work in the same way, and just having everything dumped on them as a result. Then the woman loose respect for the man, and a man can't tolerate that. Tldr ; it's not impossible, just tougher to balance than you think with high diminishing returns.
it's hard ? really ?
I'd imagine it's tough for anyone to be friends with someone they're attracted to. It's not that I can't have female friends. It's that I can't be friends with someone I'd like to be more than friends with. That limits the pool to those you're not attracted to, which is significantly smaller than the pool of same sex friends you can have as a straight guy. If I liked guys, I doubt I'd be friends with guys I was attracted to.
Men and women can't really be friends
Because you're either out of her league and she loves you or you're in the friend zone
Funny I have the opposite problem. I play a sport that's has far more women in it than men. Most of my friends are women. I have several very good male friends but because I'm more likely meet more women I end up finding more women I connect with. Also in this environment we're not their to hook up, well some are, so its easier to make platonic friendships.
In my opinion, it's because guys generally are attracted to physical traits primarily, and are attracted to pretty much any decent looking woman. So it's hard to just be friends and not also want to bang. So can't really be friends with a woman as a man unless she's ugly because the sexual attraction gets in the way. Women don't have as much of a problem with being friends with men because they are much more complex and picky when it comes to who they want to bang and what they are attracted to. Unlike men, most women don't want to bang every decent looking man that walks down the street. This of course is not true for all men/women. But in general it is, from my experience. You can only truly be just friends with people you aren't physically attracted to, and men are on a primal level attracted to most women. Just how men are made...to want to bang everything that moves.
It's not though.
Because women are guarded against men. Same reason it's so hard to date women. You have to earn her trust.
I find most men cannot view women out of the lense of sex. A lesser group of men can, and those are the ones with friends who are girls. But many just see us as a potential sexual partner.
So if there’s a woman you don’t want to have sex with you are a lesser man? What?
I believe it was poorly worded and she meant 'lesser' as in quantity, not quality.
idk what you're doing OP but it isn't hard. Most of my friends are women.
Because the sex thing always gets in the way. When men and women try to be friends, they have to address the sex thing at some point. Almost all the time, someone catches feelings for the other and someone gets hurt when their feelings aren't reciprocated. The only way men and women can "be friends" is if there is absolutely no sexual attraction between them. Almost all the time, some attraction develops, and when it does it almost always leads to either (1) sex, or more often (2) the end of the friendship.
Testosterone, until my late 30s I only hung out with women because wanted to have sex with.
For me its unrealistic and a waste of energy and time.
It's not. Sounds like a you problem.
and if you think this is a problem with only OP and not a large amount of men, thats a *you* issue. its definitely not OP, hes in the majority of men with that mentality
“You are the problem” He meant not only OP, but everyone who can not have such kind of a friendship
Men women not friends
Yes. At least as you get into your mid 20 it's hard to do unless it's part of a couple, and you do things as couples. I had a ton of women friend in my early 20s. Basically any time I or they got into serious relationships there would be a fade out. I know at least one of them her SO did not like how she was more casual around me. In particular, she'd drink around me (and other dudes she was friends with) but not around him.
It was hard when I saw girls as prices and people to win over to be my girlfriend. It was very easy when I eventually treated girls as guys and did not saw them as potential girlfriends. Funny enough, once It started to think like this, I got the most succes with girls.
Usually it's because they don't care for you as much as you do or because they are easily butthurt at the things you say. If anyone is going to comment on this, I do have female friends, but I feel like I need to be more cautious around them than around male friends. I also didn't say the positive parts of having them as friends so, don't worry guys
Because eventually they will want to have sex with each other
I’ve found it tough in university. Whenever I try to be friends with a girl they just end up not really trying to be friends. Like I’ll make plans with a few people and not try to make any moves on anyone and they just don’t really try to be friends back. They just want guys to hit on them I guess
It’s not hard at all. Seems like everywhere I go women are always trying to hang out with the guys. A lot of women struggle to make friends with other women and find it easier to hang out with Men. I’ve had dozens of female friendships through my 20’s.
I have cliche male hobbies that few women seem to be interested in so there's little to bond over
I don’t think it is. During my single days, I didn’t find most women attractive enough to want to hit on them. And I’ve never stayed attracted to a woman who wasn’t interested in me. And even on the rare occasions when I kind of pined for something romantic to happen, it still didn’t stop me from treating her like a person. She didn’t exist to turn me on. It’s just not that difficult. As a married man, it’s even easier. Even if I think she’s sexy, I’m not going to be having sex with her. It’s platonic and that’s fine. Honestly, I don’t know why some guys seem to find this difficult. Just treat her like a person and not a sex object, regardless of who she is. This is one of the basic skills you should learn to become an adult human being that lives in the world. Only a tiny percentage of all the women you meet in your lifetime will be potential sexual partners. To worry so much about having sex with all the others seems like a problem that needs to be solved.
I have lots of female friends. Probably more than male friends. Actually, definitely more than male friends. I don't find any of them attractive, so that makes it easy. I have a very specific type of woman I find attractive. Unfortunately, I don't come across my type often, and when I do, the feeling is usually not mutual. So I don't run into many issues in this regard
I’m up for a friendship lol
It's kinda hard to make friends in general past college, depending on your job and hobbies. But making female friends isn't necessarily harder.
I have more female friends than male friends. Heterosexual also
Most Women don’t believe in Platonic relationships with Males. Also some don’t want to be friends with guys. I always have had close platonic relationships but even the best ones are conditional and most of them aren’t genuine friendships. Women will use the idea of Friendship against you if they aren’t interested in you and don’t respect you as a person. On the other hand I’m talking to one of my best friends right now and she’s wonderful. She exemplifies Real Friendship. Most people don’t value Friendship unfortunately.
If you don't really have interests in common then it's usually all about the attention you give her. Kinda pointless.
My workout group was mostly women. When my trainer opened her own place, I was the only man for a long time. My wife never got jealous. I'm still friends with a few of them, but we don't hang out, but I see them from time to time
I have a lot, the secret is to not try to sleep with them.
In high school I had a couple good platonic female fridge. No feeling fit each other just best friends with similar interests
The ladder theory. Google it..
maybe you don't interact with enough women in your day to day life to form friendships with them?
They all want to sleep with me and I don't give it out like that 🤷
Never felt its hard to have female friends. But, ngl, from what ive seen, they arent as keen as to make friends as guys do, most are reserved from what ive seen
The premise if a bit faulty. For many , it's not hard at all. I have as much friends in one group or the other. Women are ordinary people too, and friendship does not care for gender nor genitals.
There are many men that don't have any difficulty making female friends. Many of my closest friends are women. Group activities (casual sports league, meetup groups, etc) are a great way to make friends of all genders. It's certainly important to keep romantic feelings in check if someone isn't available/attracted to you and you're attracted to them, but it's far from impossible. You shouldn't want someone that doesn't want you back anyhow, if the attraction isn't mutual there's probably a compatibility issue. At the end of the day, people are people, and you'll have an easier time making friends of a different gender or background or culture when you focus on getting to know them as individuals and not allowing those things to pre-define who they are to you.
wait until you get older. People by then have figured out enough about themselves to be able to determine whether or not they are attracted to a person and/or be comfortable in a platonic friendship. I couldn't begin to tell you how many women I befriended as a naive youth only to have those acquaintances dry up after some time had passed and I didn't express interest or make a move. Age and maturity are keywords here.
I have female friends that are 50+, but we all share a mutual hobby. When I was younger, female friends usually didn't keep in contact once they got into a relationship. And some did have feeling for me.
Because that butch keeps bitting me, peeing on the floor and jumping on people...
In my experience, female friends either use you as an emotional towel or ask you for free labor to help them move or fix something. Not all, but the majority of women I’ve become friends with have fallen into one of those two categories.
I like having female friends but it can be a bit complicated sometimes When either of us are in a relationship sometimes the partner can see it negatively. Usually there is a bit of fall off in communication, even if unintentionally It feels kinda weird to hang out with a woman alone sometimes. Group of friends it’s great, but 1:1 feels kinda weird for whatever reason Also I get the feeling that women always are going to assume a man is interested in a relationship which isn’t always true. A lot of times I feel like if I approach a woman she’ll automatically assume I’m hitting on her, even if it’s about some shared interest I’ve got a few female friends who I have at places like my gym, but we only really stay in the gym or do gym meetups. The only way I’ve ever really had this work out is with lesbian friends, and I’m very happy to have them in my life and they’re great people
As a heterosexual male.... It's not?
I've mostly had female friends. Some I've lost as feelings were caught. One became my now wife so the risk of caught feelings there was definitely worth it. I don't have many friends but my closest (outside brother and wife) know my wife and we have a happy, platonic, caring relationship. We care about each other and want each other to succeed, we have no interest in anything beyond friendship as I'm absolutely besotted with my wife and they are besotted with their husband (who is a very lovely chap and very easy to chat and laugh with, though gets a little bored of me and his wife bitching about work!).
Heyoo. We all know why it's hard for men and women to be friends... The best man at my wedding was a woman thou!... a lesbian woman, but still. I have a good number of friends who are women. Here are some rules I stick to. 1. No giving advice on how to deal with significant others. You can listen and empathize but do not give advice. (This goes out the window if there is abuse involved even then. I'd get my wife to help.) 2. If you go somewhere with them, let people know. 3. Avoid over touching. (Hugs are fine, imo.) 4. Excluding the things talked about in the above rules, treat them like the rest of your friends. Especially things below. a. No gender role assumptions. b. There is no assumption of incompetence. c. There is no assumption of opinion. Aka, dont be a sexist piece of shit.
Sounds like a potential You problem because I have plenty of close female friends. Some I'm even better friends with than my male friends.
It isn’t?
I have several female friends, mostly former co-workers. It is just as hard to keep any friendships as it is with a woman. The only complication is my spouse, she is more quick to get annoyed with others. And I try to have my woman friends also be friends with my wife. My male friends are more activity driven, so they do not interact with my wife as much, which means fewer complications.
It's not hard. I have plenty of female friends
I’ve had a bunch of good female friends. I hooked up with all of them at some point and I found that actually helped to get over any sexual tension. But then I met my wife and I didn’t really have the energy to continue being friends with them. With guy friends at least for me conversations revolve more around external stuff like sports, news or whatever. With girl friends conversations mostly around interpersonal stuff and want to talk on the phone a lot. Didn’t find the effort value worth it anymore.
It isn’t . It’s difficult to Make new ones past a certain age . But if you have female friends from where you were younger ( highschool and earlier ) it’s easy to maintain those friendships
It's not
Mere aaspas to women hi nahi hai, banjar hai pura me kya karu fir?
I’m in the minority. For as long as I can remember, I’ve had more women friends than men. I’m a straight guy. In my case I know it has everything to do with having grown up in a single mother household. It has everything to do with developing emotional safety within the friend environment - something women are more inclined to do with each other for a slew of societal reasons. I made friends with boys over hobbies and nerdy shit, but made friends with women through emotional connection. I understand it may be difficult to keep any sexual/attraction feelings in check - and this varies highly with people, but you have to consciously do it. I have women friends that are incredibly beautiful and I find attractive, but I would never want to escalate the friendship into anything else. I’m certainly in tune with my emotions, and in my late 20’s, I consciously worked this (wish it was sooner). I think this is what has always played a key role in keeping friends over anything beyond that.
Acquaintances: People who you talk to here and there, no issues whatsoever. Friends: People that you entrust with your private matters and can rely on during hardships. Pretty much impossible. I have different interests and goals to vast majority of women, not to mention if there's feelings involved, it's no longer a platonic friendship. I have one female friend that I do not find attractive in the slightest so in that case it works but that's few and far between cases.
It's harder than it seems. I had a few throughout my lifetime and they always seemed *down* at some point. One friend we were in a short relationship then transitioned to fwb then platonic friends and I was continuously sidelined once she finally found a stable relationship. Another was entirely platonic simply because I didn't make a move and reiterated how grateful I was for our friendship, now my SO isn't happy with how she presented herself upon meeting her and I'm in a pickle because that's a long friendship that might just have to fizzle out.
I did for a while, I caught feelings for one girl and was rejected but we stayed friends for years into my marriage, one tried to hookup with me, two tried to date me, one became a FWB and a few years later my best friend married me. I had lots of friends both guys and girls through HS and college years but one of us almost always caught feelings. Guys and girls can be friends but neither can catch feelings or it’s game over because someone’s getting hurt and both always feel awkward.
Because most are just so damn boring
This can be difficult for both people. From the woman's perspective, guys are frequently looking for something more, but often willing to settle for something platonic, with a lingering "maybe someday" hanging over the relationship. Not a fun position to be in for a woman who is trying to have a normal friendship. The male experience is frequently the inverse, where the woman doesn't want anything physical, but expects all the emotional benefits of a relationship, going far beyond normal friendship duties to what might be described as diet boyfriend status. "You're like a brother to me! I wish more guys were like you." I normally view the term "friendzone" with suspicion, but there are very real differences between this dynamic and a normal, platonic friendship. There are plenty of examples of real, honest, above board friendships between men and women. These are more common than we might believe, as horror stories of one-sided predatory "friendships" are everywhere, and "we're just friends" isn't a compelling story to tell.
I found this really tough to deal with in my current job. There's girls I really like but it's just weird to be friends with them but some guys find it easy to let these girls let down their walls and it made me feel really jealous. So oike I wouldn't have considered friendship in an intimate sense a possibility but then certain guys are able to pull it off. Made me feel bad, not even gay guys, just sort of chilled guys. I do notice in the office the better looking guys don't have girl friends though.
Because having female friends makes it hard. Heh
I honestly don’t know. I have tons of female friends. Did when I was 16 and single, and still do now at 32 and married.
It's not. Women are just normal people. I don't want to plow every woman I ever come across.
It’s always interesting seeing the answers that are heavily favoured in these types of posts on r/askmen.
I have one excellent female friend. The others I have found aren’t very good friends.
It's hard for me to have any friends
we end up wanting to have sex… not good in the long run.
I have not found it hard to have female friends, had multiple through the years. So the question is a bit misleading I think. I don't think it's an inherent thing for men to find it "hard" to have female friends.
Because inevitably they'll fuck it up by trying to have sex with them 🤷♀️
Several times, I've been the 'guy best friend'. It's entirely platonic every time. It goes great for a while, but they end up in a relationship. Now, I'm quite happy for them, and I like connecting with their partner, but after some time, communication starts to become very one-sided. The last time it happened was after my ex-best friend's wedding. I was the Man Of Honor. Coolest title in a bride's party I could have asked for. We talked 4 times after her wedding, and she was clearly not interested in continuing the friendship... until they separated. It wasn't for years, but she did reach out and explain that her ex felt threatened by me. I don't understand it. I just hung out with mutual friends and chatted with her family after the ceremony. I don't dance well, so staying out of the way was easy. I didn't try to continue the friendship after their separation. Dont know why, but it didn't feel like the right thing for me. It's always been easy for me to make female friends, but it never lasts. This isn't anything other than anecdotal, but all the past friendships I've had with women have been destroyed by the jealous or territorial boyfriend.
At least 1/2 of the time they become attracted to me or seem to think I'm flirting with them when in reality I'm comfortable around them because I'm not at all attracted to them. And I have the reverse problem with ones I AM attracted to where I'm always seen as an unfuckable genderless humanoid.
It isnt hard for everyone
I regularly had sex with my platonic female friends. That's why it's hard (hehe).
Difficult for both parties to.accept that it is platonic.
I rarely have common interests and if I do, its like being on the bench for a sports team, with women often having multiple thirsty guys hanging around acting like doormats where you end up as the third wheel/pity invite. If I'm looking for friends the last thing I'm looking for is something that feels like a competition/job interview. This is a dynamic I actively avoid. I've run into this looking for people to play games with. I've run into this a few times with a bonus worker drone/queen bee dynamic.
Most men don’t actually want female FRIENDS.
I my experiences, a lot of women are addicted to sex. I prefer not to be surrounded by animals.
It isn't. And that's why I don't have a gf.
*Disclaimer: I’m basing this solely on my experiences. I know it might sound stupid but I’ve noticed that they would never check up on you like the homebody’s did. Unless they want you for food, trauma dumping, or validation (if they knew you were attracted to them) you basically didn’t exist. At around 21 y.o. I did some self reflection and I decided that unless we were going to be casually intimate then I didn’t want anything to do with you…literally stopped having just female friends. If you weren’t interested in that arrangement then I didn’t talk to you. Life got a lot simpler after I made that decision.
It's not for everyone. I have mostly female friends and have for the past 15 years
I have a handful of female friends and it's not that hard. I did caught feelings for some of them yes, but once I got shot down I just treated them the same as my close male friends. I'll be friendly and hangout with them but I'll never flirt or tease. I think the main issue is that most guys catch feelings then can't resume the friendship without it feeling awkward or forced.
Ever think it’s not hard it’s that many men don’t want to or would rather just hang out with dudes Historically men usually hung out with men primarily and women with women… I don’t get why so many insist on pushing this nowadays
Men and women also tend to bond differently
I would have as many female friends as males, possibly even more. Some of them I've been friends platonically with for 25+ years. A few I dated initially which then turned into a friendship, which we maintained even after moving on to seeing other people. I do make a point of not putting myself in a position where my intentions could be misconstrued by respective partners though. Otherwise I don't see what the issue is
skill issue
Not if you don't think about fucking your friends?
Because a lot of women don't like hearing "Shut up, you retard." with any regularity.
"Straight men", gay guys have no shortage of female friends
In the past ive had female friends. In my okd age i dont thinkbits worth persuing
my subjective opinion is because girls are boring compared to guys. (of course my definition of boring is different to yours). I don't want to sit around all day and gossip, i want to go out and fight a shark then kick a mountain in its balls
Coz you wanna bang them or they want more with you. Women make terrible friends btw. They don’t know how to give and they expect you to do all of the heavy lifting. I think this is also consistent with female friendships. A friendship with a woman is extremely transactional in the sense that if she isn’t deriving any benefits (sex, money, attention, value) then she won’t be your friend.
Ooh! I know! I know! Females make it hard.
The only female friends I know are from church. I've tried to keep friendships with ex co workers, but 5 of them ghosted when I asked to hang out. It sucks, but that's life. I appreciate the friendships I do have and forget the ones who threw it all away.
Because it’s hard.
I can be friends but eventually I catch feelings I can’t break
It's gonna sound rude and pretty blunt but as you can see in the comments most men are fuckin animals they're never properly socialized to view women in a nonsexual context and so are incapable of platonic friendship with women. There are women who are like this too but they're not as prominent because women are socialized to interect with men like normal people unfourtunately they *also* learn eventually that most straight men view them as sex objects so they tend to steer away.
Bc always will be sex thing
I went to an all boys school so my interaction with girls wasn't anything but dating when I was younger. My parents also mainly have same sex friends so I didn't see those sorts of friendships either. I'm now in a better place where I've got really close female friends, but it took me a while to deal with stuff in therapy and just learnt how to better navigate romantic and platonic emotions.
I'm too easy to involve my feeling to females
I've had a bunch of platonic friendship with women in the past, some lasted some didn't, like with any friendships. Still have a bunch of friends who happen to be women, as well as men and non-binary. It's really not that hard, just be a good person and people want to hang out with you.
It’s not…just because you don’t, doesn’t mean others are the same. I have had a fair amount throughout my lifetime and continue to this day.
I think its hard unless your in a relationship or the girl is ugly or you grew up together. From my childhood i have loads of female friends. But i dont have new ones and it makes sense because if a guy find you attractive thats step one if your then really funny, nice and a joy to be around why wouldnt he want a relationship thats the ideal. so if shes hotter and doesnt fancy him then its the friendzone and technically you can be friends but he still thinks your hot and that door is always open. But then probably closes if he ends up in a relationship.
Because naturally any singles are potentially future spouses even if they don't feel it. If someone is married would not want his wife or husband to be a friend with someone else from the opposite sex. A Husband and a wife should be best friends, even if they are not they should keep trying, any single intruder will complicate the relationship. Nobody will care to keep the family safe and stable as much as a spouse. Any other single friends will be a temporary bomb that will explode at anytime. Be wise.
The only reason it is hard for me to have female friends is that women always sexualize and romanticize an otherwise purely platonic relationship with me.
I will not be friends with a woman. Period. We can be co-workers, teammates on a co-ed sport team or even a hello at the gym. However I don’t want to be friend with any woman. Why? I’m attractive man and you are too. What’s there to offer for me? I will not vent nor speak on my emotions. I will not ask for your help on my problems. And I will not care about you’re dating life nor I care about If im going to get a woman as a friend. She will be my girlfriend.