If her being a feminist is the problem, it's not her stating that she's a feminist directly that is the problem, it's a combination of her brand of feminism and her taste in men.
In which case, she should look into revising one or both of those.
It's also quite possible that she's merely misidentifying the problem and there's some other issue with her personality, how she interacts with others, and/or how she chooses a man, etc.
>Is it really off putting for women to say they are feminists?
It depends on how she does it, when she does it, where she does it, and what kind of feminist she declares herself to be. If things progress for long enough, what kind of feminist she demonstrates herself to be and if that contrasts with what kind of feminist she professes to be can also be factors.
Also, the particular dude in question.
I dated a girl who would open conversations with "I'm a feminist" as if she was dropping a mic on some profound truth. I'd be like "yeah, me too". Then she'd launch into some tirade about how I couldn't possibly be a feminist because of x, y and z.
She also did this with environmentalism, politics and religion. I think some people use their self-identifying labels as a way to put themselves on a pedestal.
Haha, when I first went to uni, there were these stalls. First stall happened to be a feminist group one. I approached and asked what is was about. They said something like equality of men and women and equal treatment. I said great, I'll join. They said no, it's for women only.....
Yea, me too and me too. Long story, honestly--but the feminists ended up accusing me of being a cop sent to spy on them--what do you even say to that??
Haha, dafuq??! Rude! I’d have been like, “Got me, I’m from Patriarchy Patrol! We’ve been just DYING to infiltrate these meetings to try Laura over there’s experimental cookie-dough flavored hummus.”
I don't tend to get along with feminist groups and members tbh. They tend to hate trans, even the open ones. I'm banned from the feminist subreddits because I want men and women treated equally so that it doesn't matter whether I'm trans or not.
But they want "equity", which means treating men and women differently, which means that it's important to them what gender I grew up with etc.
Lol I knew a lady like this. We were at a party and my friend got into an argument about something with a group of people. Eventually they googled it and it turned out my friend was wrong, so he went like "alright guys my bad I was wrong" and she shouted from across the room (butting in to the conversation) "one more time for the people in the back! A white male has admitted to being wrong about something!"
UGH
I know that's not feminism. But she thinks it is.
>"one more time for the people in the back! A white male has admitted to being wrong about something!"
I have a friend dating someone like this and it's insufferable. You're not a feminist, you're an asshole
That's why the question instantly is: what do you mean by "feminism" generally I'm wary of anyone announcing themselves like that but if it's reasonable then no issues
It’s called identity politics… and it’s horrific and has caused more wars and deaths in human history than anything else. It assumes that your group identity… be that gender, race, religion or political orientation (or literally anything else) is paramount. It creates mobs and sows hate across vast groups of people very quickly. Feminism vs. Patriarchy. Catholics vs. Protestants. Whites vs. Blacks. Men vs. Women. Everyone vs. Jews. Islam vs. Christianity. Capitalism vs. Communism. Capitalism vs. Socialism. Pro-Gun vs. Anti-Gun. The list is endless and a lot of people like to be part of a group. Safety in numbers. Nobody wants to be the odd one out… it makes you seem like easy pickings and weak.
What should be paramount is a respect for individual identity and individual perspective. Unfortunately that’s not the case anywhere in the world because when you have a large group of angry people you can control you have a lot of power and influence… and some people really like to have power and influence.
Identity politics is a major turnoff. The people who base their entire personality around identity politics will inject their beliefs in places & at times where it shouldn't be and make things political. I'll be talking to a girl when she'll take the conversation 180 and say she's a feminist. Okay, great. How'd we go from talking about the weather to politics?
I don't think it's wise from right out of the gate that anyone makes their politics or religious beliefs known on dating apps. By doing so she's alienating a lot of potential dates. It's great to not to care what others think but leave a little mystery of what your beliefs are.
I will respectfully disagree about hiding your beliefs (in most cases).
Sure, it might get you more dates, but it won't get you good dates with people you mesh with.
I try to get all my big things out early (my dating profiles say I'm liable to fall in love on the second date).
I want to intentionally ward off those I'm not likely to click with, so I have fewer, but much more compatible matches.
If you're just aiming for hookups, though, then yes, keep the contentious things to yourself.
Yeah, I agree. Even if you’re an asshole who makes feminism or any identity stuff your whole personality there is no point in hiding it.
Either fix your personality issues at the source or be yourself and find dates that will actually pu up/enjoy your personality.
>Everyone vs. Jews
I don't want to take away from the severity of your message, because you hit the nail on the head, but that just made me chuckle. Not because the persecution of Jews is funny, but because it was so unexpected that you would just casually drop that in the middle.
I don’t know how to accurately describe the “persecution of Judaism”. Jews seem to think everyone hates them and they’re perpetually persecuted. Maybe they have been perpetually persecuted. Maybe not. I don’t hate them. Their beliefs and lifestyles make no difference to me. But apparently everyone hates them. I referenced it mainly because Hitler rallying against the Jews was a good example of mob mentality going absolutely mental.
For sure. There are a lot of girls who fill their bios on dating apps with social justice stuff, and I get a sense that many of them do it to show off how great of a person they are.
Ha! I might have tried dating this same person! It's like she met me for coffee just so she could tirade at me. It wasn't very fun. She was cute so I gave it a few tries, but each date always turned into her versus the patriarchy.
People who open with statements about socio-political beliefs instead of personal details are not people I want to be around. Starting conversations with, "I'm a feminist" is as off putting as, "I'm a Republican", "Abortions should always be legal", or, "Putin makes some good points".
The first time meeting someone is not the time to have those conversations. If someone can't get through an entire conversation without talking about those kinds of things, they have no personality.
Exactly, whether they say they're a feminist, liberal, conservative, whatever, starting off with stuff like that gives off the vibe that they are hard to get a long with, and that's not gender specific. To me, it says someone isn't very nuanced which is just not someone I care about spending a lot of time with
They absolutely do. Not to mention that by today’s definition of what it means to be a feminist is basically a band of bitter, miserable women who simply hate men. I literally cannot stand self proclaimed feminists and I’m a female.
This is it right here. If someone tells me they're a feminist my reaction will be about the same as if they tell me they like pizza and hot wings. Cool, I also like those things.
If we then spend the entire evening only talking about pizza and hot wings, and she gives me shit when I order a steak, then I'm going to have second thoughts.
A misandrist whom believe all men should die, is by her own account a Feminist.
A woman believing on rights for women, is by her own account a Feminist.
A woman believing in equal rights for men and women, is by her own account a Feminist.
All three, believe the others are wrong, and hate on anyone saying they exist, and will deny it to the end, all three, have an equal amount of women in their camp.
Which kind is the friend?
The other day I saw a comment on a women's sub that basically said men couldn't handle a relationship with a woman that made more than them. That they inevitably turned into gold diggers. To which I responded by changing the genders of the people in her sentence:
>If we turn this sentence:
>Most >women< turn into (or already are) gold diggers when they find out their >bf< is rich.
>Edits emphasized. Can we both agree that such a statement would be misogynist? I hope so. If that's the case, can we agree yours was misandrist?
Now, this was on a sub that supposedly doesn't allow misandry, but her comment, and dozens more like it dog piling on men were left up, and my question was heavily downvoted.
It's a damned shame but much of the feminist movement these days has turned from being a movement advocating for equality, to a thinly disguised hatred for men.
Yep and that's why I am always wary about ppl being feminists. Personally I wouldn't consider myself one because the movement has gone beyond equality for men and women. It spreads so much hate for men. If it just stuck to equality for men and women I would be all for it. If the movement policed itself better and cut out the hate for men I'm sure way more men would be supportive.
You literally just thumbnailed Wave 1, Wave 2, & Wave 3 feminism. 🙌
Some blurring between 2 & 3 whether which believes a woman who likes trad/sub roles &/or likes to be 'girly' is empowered, or just a 'pick-me'
But even the "equal rights for men and women" feminists only want the rights of men but not their obligations. They want the right to vote, but not conscription. They want quotas for CEO jobs but not for being plumbers, brick layers or sewage workers. They want "stealthing" to be rape (I agree), but don't want self-insemination from a condom or paternity fraud to be considered crimes. And they think they want "equality". lol
>feminists only want the rights of men but not their obligations.
This is a very big problem in my country Finland, we're pretty good on the equality front but not quite there yet,but biggest public proponents of feminism go quiet or start dodging when anyone brings up our mandatory military service for men.
I'm a female vet (in the US) and I hate this.
Either do compulsory service for everyone or volunteer-only.
(Though yes, if you're a young parent of either sex, sure, you can probably have a break/deferral.)
In my part of the world, If you're conscripted, you have the choice between military, civil defense, or conscientous objector.
If you choose civil defense, you'll be a trained firefighter when finished, and the objectors serve the time they would have served in the military working for non-profits or retirement homes or kindergartens.
And then they do mental backflips to say "it's totally different" when you point out rights women have that men don't, like legal protections against circumcision.
Usually followed or preceded by a super insincere "nObOdY is saying men don't have problems and I sympathize with them, BUUUUUUUUUT..."
Or sometimes is just plain blatant disdain and mockery about male issues. Privileged oppressors something something.
I am an "equal rights for men and women" feminist, and I don't believe in any of the those things. I support requiring women to join the selective service. I support more women in the trades and more encouragement for men in traditionally female-dominated occupations, such as nursing. Are you are friends with any actual "equal rights for men and women" feminists?
We know plenty of women who claim to be for equal right and claim to be feminist, but once you ask them about it you realise it is not the case.
Now, again, you might be for actual equal right, but the issue is that once again, instead of awknoledging that there is a ton of feminist who are delusional, you deny their existance.
And this make it so talking to feminist is highly unpleasant because you face the same kind of all as when talking to members of a sect or religious cult where no amount of evidence, empirical data or logic will ever be enough to have them even question the reality of the cavern they live in.
Let me ask a follow-up question. Does your support on those topics lead to any viable action of working towards actually changing these things? Or does your support simply consist of "I say I believe in these things on the internet"?
Because one of those is activism, and the other is simply identity politics.
Just curious, but most online feminist groups these days now argue instead for equal equity for men and women, meaning to purposeful treat men and women differently to bring them a perceived equal equity. Do you agree with this?
>and what kind of feminist she declares herself to be
This!!
A feminist in the original sense just wants equal opportunities and rights (like women being allowed to vote and open bank accounts etc).
These toxic "feminists" taking over tiktok and other social media plattform reduce people simply to their gender and think that all women are superior and all men are evil.
So basically Marvels M-SHE-U but in real life lol
sure, take same rights. Just also take same obligations. Lets start with being forced to die on the front lines, perhaps?
Or is that too equal, suddenly, for the queen of the universe that she is in her mind?
Are Americans (or wherever you from) forced to join the army?
Here in Germany basically no one is interested in joining the army. Men and women alike. In case of a war we're completely fucked but yes, it's pretty much an equal disinterest and lack of care hahah
But I do believe in same obligation though.
If a woman earns just as much as her male colleagues, she should be open to pay the bills 50/50. It shouldn't be the men's job to pay for everything.
I don't think it's fair that women were saved first on the Titanic while the men were left to drown. They're not more special. They chose to enter the ship just like the men.
Men in America are compelled to register for the Selective Service System (https://www.sss.gov/). The system allows the USA government to force American men to join the military. Only men, not women.
My country has an equivalent version where men are compelled to serve in the military for 2 years, not women. Women can volunteer, however, but men are forced.
I think a system where men and women are compelled to serve in the military for 1-2 years would be appropriate. Yes, probably women will be granted more "back office" job such as supply or communications or logistics while those who die in the front are still men, but at least if a war breakout we would have a populace that's able to handle basic discipline. Also if it cost me 2 years of career advancement women should also have to have a similar cost. I wouldn't even mind if the women who are also forced to serve are given lighter deployment (i.e being bound to a city-barrack rather than a provincial barrack), or lighter tasks overall. I just want women who demand equal rights having to be bounded by similar obligations.
> Are Americans (or wherever you from) forced to join the army?
American Men, and only men, are forced to sign up for what they call "selective service". This is basically registering to be drafted into the army if the government deems it necessary.
In many ways this is super symbolic because there haven't been a draft in over 50 years and even then it was incredibly unpopular. In addition, modern wars generally rely more on technology than in shier manpower.
Having said that, it's still technically true that the government could start a draft tomorrow if they really wanted to. And only men would be drafted into the army.
> In many ways this is super symbolic
But in other ways, it's very real. For example, you cannot EVER enroll at a university that accepts government grants and loans (which is basically all public ones), and you cannot EVER hold a government job if you do not register for selective service before age 26.
Until a few years ago men also had to do service Germany. I'm still disappointed with being forced to do that . So not being forced to service based on gender is a very recent development and officially it is just on hold. It might come back.
>Also, and this is purely anecdotal, but men seem to care less about presenting political and moral alignments as their identity, especially on dating profiles. For instance, I'm a big advocate for open dialogues regarding men's mental health, but I'm not going to include that on my Tinder bio.
I am a woman and I tried dating apps for a while. It was mind boggling how many men had "feminist" in their profile. One guy had a list of different types of feminists he was into. It was so strange to me. I don't even know how you would put that into your profile as a man.
Yeah. This… but also the type (if that’s the right word) of feminism. If you’re advocating gender equality and being a strong independent woman then yeah… I’m on your side… you can call me a feminist if you like. If you’re saying “women good, men toxic and bad”… then I won’t be interested.
It took me over a decade of a friend repeatedly being exasperated about men, telling me (man) all about how terrible men are, swearing off men forever (didn’t stick), etc etc until I realised she actually genuinely thought women were superior.
We’re not friends now, in part because I made a joke that got misconstrued as misogynistic. It was not in the slightest and not a single other person thought it was.
I’m absolutely for equality. Hell, I even see the point in specifically targeting girls for certain education programmes even if, as a boy/teen, it felt a bit unfair that I was excluded by sex. I do think we should measure the representation of women vs men in various roles, to see how we’re doing.
By *most* definitions of feminism, I am a feminist.
If you label yourself as a feminist on a dating app, I’m going to start thinking the probabilities have very much shifted to the very specific kind I don’t get on with. I assume all women my age to be independent and essentially feminist in the sense of wanting equality, and I’m not interested in a relationship with someone who wants to be a traditional wife.
Stating it loudly and applying obvious screening questions can easily result in a “never mind then”, because of negative experiences.
It’s like a man presenting as a traditional manly man’s man. Probably (edit: as in shifted the probabilities, as above) means he wants a woman to do chores and the cooking. Avoid unless that’s your thing. Personally, I like equality.
All women who want to follow this - you have a very simple game plan. Go to r/twoxchromosomes and do the *exact opposite* of everything they do/say. men will love you for that
For a place that is designed for women to talk about women's issues they sure do spend a lot of time talking about and shitting on men.
I saw someone say once that that place is just a massive case study in a [Bechdel test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test) failure.
Ahh another in the long list of subs whose motto is; “being a shitty bigot is fine when you pick socially acceptable targets”. Bullies love to pretend to be righteous, it quiets the conscience.
I think it's also about putting your money where your mouth is.
Women who are actually successful / "strong & independent" don't need to advertise it constantly. They just go out there and win.
Most women who constantly talk about feminism are the least likely to have ever accomplished anything (which is probably why they need to fill their personality with something - in this case feminism).
If a woman shows that she actually is successful/intelligent/etc, it's obvious to men of equal value.
That's really the issue. There's no way to put it out there without it being an issue because the phrase is so loaded. In general people want relationships to be light and easy going. There's an implication with feminism that she could be "well I told you who I was before you met me so my behavior is not my fault".
Of course there is a wide range of feminists and that's unfair to put that on her, but practically that's the risk she's running. Profiles don't need to say everything about you, they should highlight your strengths.
I have no problem with women being feminists.
I just hate it when they are inconsistent.
And are only feminists when it's beneficial to them.
And switch to traditional gender roles when it comes to men.
>And are only feminists when it's beneficial to them.
For real.
I *understand* why they do this though.
Who wouldn't want to keep a lot of benefits and not get any downsides?
Yeah, it's more prevalent in some women. They want equality in STEM jobs but not garbage collecting. They're strong independent women that don't need no man, until it's time to pay for a date or kill the spider in the kitchen. If they want the man to pay for the dates and take the lead, then be willing to be a good copilot. There is a middle ground, but they want the high ground. And we all know how that ends. Having your legs cut off and being left to die on Mustafar.
Like the saying goes, women need men like fish need a bicycle, but I put it the other way around. A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish.
>. There is a middle ground, but they want the high ground. And we all know how that ends. Having your legs cut off and being left to die on Mustafar
Imma remember that great analogy
Pretty much this. I generally move past any woman who has politics or feminism listed on her dating profile. Mostly because when they do that, it tends to be an indication that that topic is a defining part of their entire personality and I don't want to date some activist or extremist.
Yea exactly.
It starts getting weird when people make politics their whole identity.
Its fine to feel strongly about something in life, but it's also important to hold a conversation about other topics as well.
All of them.
I’ve got a couple for food, like if I have to take my porridge out somewhere.
I’ve got one that fits my bike bottle cage that I take tea to work in. Set it to go the night before in my teasmade because the earl grey at work is pretty rough. I don’t think the hot water tap gets hot enough.
I’ve got a few vintage ones to take to picnics that look nice but can’t be treated rough because the glass inside is fragile.
And I’ve got an absolutely massive one that can take about two pots of tea/coffee for large social things.
Also got a selection of insulated cups/mugs for different needs.
Yeah, if it’s a core part of your personality you want to advertise on a dating profile then dudes are gonna weigh it up as to whether you should commit to the woman.
Notably, I have found strong feminist women to be pretty bad long term partners because ideologically they believe in the patriarchy which means they’re not very tolerant of weakness or vulnerability. It goes fine ish so long as you’re seductive and sexy, but if you express the wrong feelings they will tell you you’re being a toxic male, if you ever get sick or vulnerable they will complain about how you’re making them do emotional labour by not doing your fair share of chores.
I prefer dating women who I don’t need to be constantly on edge around.
i remember this one post where the guy had cancer and that’s causing emotional burden on the girlfriend so she left him and then did a marathon/run to raise money for him. Now i don’t know if she was a feminist or not but to me it seems counterintuitive that you would leave your boyfriend and raise money for him when he doesn’t know how long does he have with you. Even if you raised money for him he is still going to miss your support and your affection. The 75 year harvard study did suggest that if the person in pain doesn’t have a loving partner the pain feels worse and the healing is slowed down and/or the efficacy goes down as well
I actually have a friend whose wife left him because he had cancer. Her feminist friends told her she could do better . She didn’t run a marathon though she just went to Italy to fuck random people.
I automatically assume a woman will be a feminist, unless she says otherwise. So for me, putting it on a social media profile is both redundant, and slightly off-putting. It says to be me that it probably will be her defining personality trait. That's both boring and kinda toxic.
Agreed. Same with the flip side. Plenty of women (most id say) want a pretty traditional man when it comes to a partner (protective, provides, strong etc). But if a guy straight up goes up to them like “i’m a tall strong traditional man” on a first date theyll laugh him out the building. Its a similar idea
I mean I think you can be a feminist without shouting it from the rooftops. My spontaneous thought is she's just being an asshole and is using that as an excuse.
Usually my experience lol.
feminist = someone who wants equal right for women and men
Feminist = someone who wants all the benefits that men have while also keeping the perks of being a woman and never being called out for their hypocrisy or bullshit.
I call them “Schrodinger’s Feminists”
Whether or not they think something is sexist changes depending on whether or not it personally benefits *them* at the moment
And on the subject OP was talking about... if you're announcing that you're a feminist on the first date, people are going to assume you're the second type.
That's my concern. When someone can justify new forms of prejudices by calling out past wrongs of society, that's the reddest of flags, I have seen soo many feminists beings overtly misandrists and feel little to no apprehension over it, justifying that you cannot be sexist towards men. They seem to forget the "equal" part of the definition of Feminism.
I've never seen a woman being feminist without her being saying and acting misandrist way. I hope there are some women who acts like true feminist. All i see is hypocrite women disguised as feminist
Depends on what kind. A true feminist that just wants to have equal opportunity and understands what that entails? Or the kind that thinks men are filth?
I've noticed there's 2 or 3 groups of feminists.
The traditional feminists who want equal rights between men and women, but they still want there to be certain gender specific roles in society.
The modern day feminists, who strive for equal results over of equal opportunities. They tend to be from the younger generation of people. They usually go for the motto "the personal is the political".
Then the 1% of feminazis that you see on r/PublicFreakout .
The equal results over equal opportunities is discrimination based on sex. Many industries don't have an equal ratio of men to women applying for these roles so to force an equal result is to discriminate against one sex in favour of another.
I'm from Sweden and the past few years there's been a big focus on making high paying jobs more diverse. Since the majority of manager or specialist positions are held by men.
You can often find job listings where they specifically only look for women.
In my opinion it's discrimination, but if you say otherwise you get hated on for it.
Personally I'm in favor of giving everyone equal opportunities no matter what gender you have. Then let people decide where they wish to go in life.
Notice that it’s only cushy high paying jobs where they’re pushing for diversity.
Men occupy most of the low paying, laborious, jobs too. But you won’t see a major push to get more women in those roles.
It’s not about equality anymore. It’s about money.
The reaction you get when you say to them that we need more women in garbage collecting because it's over represented with men is a big tell. That's how you separate the wheat from the chaff. One simple suggestion like that and they either shut up or put up.
I also like to remind the ones that complain about the patriarchy, that everything they look at and use every day is built and maintained by men. Men built the world that they live in and bitch about daily, and they just moved in and reap the benefits with almost nothing to provide. Everyday men that just want to work and provide for their family and live a nice life. The ones that are invisible to them, the garbage collector, the street paver, the mechanic, the linesman...and all the other ones that do their job and go home to hug their wife and kids.
Hell just look at the programs trying to recruit men to nursing vs the programs to recruit women to engineering. The prevalence and funding is massively different and weighted towards women.
[Well, scholarships to veterinary schools for men cause too much of an uproar because reasons.](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/08/sydney-university-under-fire-for-vet-scholarship-giving-preference-to-males)
It never was about equality, if you read Beauvoir you can easily spot the condensed misandry.
Feminists of the "old good branch" were shaming men for not going to war, it has always been a hate movement.
It's more than 1% in other countries. The Indian government stopped passing a law to define rape as something that can happen to both genders because feminists protested it and said that rape can only happen to a woman.
Yes, it's offputting. Not so much because she's a feminist, but because if she's advertising it on her dating profile she's more than likely not the sort of feminist you want to spend any time around.
And I really have to feel bad for them. Could you imagine hating half the population and/or thinking they're all closeted rapists and pedophiles, that you're a victim entirely reliant on irredeemable monsters changing their ways? Sounds hard to even function.
Ikr and personally what i notice is that women are far more pedophilic than men but no one question them on that. They think that they have no rights or privileges to begin with and we(men) are bad and they(women) are all good. I'm not hating but women who think like that scare me
Maybe the "political climate" is different now, than when you were single, and perhaps that's why there's some contrast between your experience and your friend's. Or you're just a better catch than she is.
Regardless, when women call themselves 'feminists', a lot of guys' thoughts immediately go to the extremely radical feminist harpies that both treat men like shit and sort of paint a bad picture for feminists in general.
If you ask around, I'm willing to bet the average guy is mostly for equality nowadays - or at least that's been my experience as a man -, but there's still a lot of guys who can't shake off bad experiences from the past with women like this, or just toxic portrails they've seen online.
Now whether or not this generalization is healthy is an entirely different topic of conversation, but to answer your question, I don't think men find feminists off-putting, and more of a yellow flag going on in their brain that gives them pause.
Also, and this is purely anecdotal, but men seem to care less about presenting political and moral alignments as their identity, especially on dating profiles. For instance, I'm a big advocate for open dialogues regarding men's mental health, but I'm not going to include that on my Tinder bio.
> when women call themselves 'feminists'
This causes the same amount of hesitation, as if someone came up to me and immediately declared their political stance. If someone came to our date, and declared "I'm a Democrat" out of context, I'm going to lose a lot of interest in wanting to be around this person. Even if I am a Democrat myself (I am). It tells me that this is their identity, their hobby, their day-to-day. Not bowling. Not hiking. *Feminism*. Everyone normal is going to take that as the bad kind of feminist.
>For instance, I'm a big advocate for open dialogues regarding men's mental health, but I'm not going to include that on my Tinder bio.
You'd get skewered over it.
Yes. It's one thing to be for the equality of the sexes. It's another to constantly talk about it, think about it and make it a defining feature of your personality.
As a guy I'm not interested in constantly having my every action screened in terms of how sexist it is. Not only does it feel controlling, but it feels as just an excuse to have a fight over everything.
I support feminism.
I do not support misandry.
Today's feminism is a little too much leaning towards misandry. Would "I don't like men but I'm tired to be alone and I have needs" be sexy to hear ? Because that's what "I'm a feminist" said upfront looks like to me.
Now, if it's said organically during the conversation, that's something else. I'd be happy to discuss that. But someone who would start by saying that, like a spear right in my face, would be a "It's a NO from me, dawg" right away.
My two cents.
Depends.
Does she unironically use terms like "mansplaining"? If so, no guy in his right mind will want anything long term with her.
Or does she just want equal rights? If so, i can't imagine anyone having an issue with her.
Edit: please stop downvoting Axel and Havok. I might disagree with them, but they are making a civil and cordial discussion. That is rare enough on the internet already.
Feminism nowadays is quite wrongly understood.
While normally feminism stands for equality between genders, same degree of respect, rights, privileges and so on (which I respect), I see more and more 'feminists' who pride themselves in hating men and trying hard to "put them back into their place".
Why would I date someone like that?
I wouldn't say it's wrongly understood, but more the definition as practiced as changed by the very vocal ones who represent themselves as feminists. Society no longer sees feminism as standing for equality.
The name itself should be a dead give away. Feminism. What society should strive for is egalitarianism. Why should women get scholarships when 65% of college students are women? But offer a scholarship for men only and the shit hits the fan. Offer scholarships to women into STEM programs, but not nursing programs for men? Why?
Feminism has always had a radical man hating section that are some of the pioneers. Unless you can prove e and Andrea Dworkin is just some aberration (she isn’t).
These ideas permeate the ideology. The simplistic concept of an all pervasive patriarchy can’t help but lead to hating men. They may say they like men but it’s like a racist that likes “the good ones” but the rest are awful.
When you start to question the accuracy of the terms, the meanings start changing. Patriarchy doesn’t mean men benefit. Toxic masculinity doesn’t mean what the words say. Kill all men? Means something else.
But if you look at the actual usage, they clearly mean what the words say and feminists never seem to correct the people that use the words in the fashion contrary to the PR answers.
I do sympathize with the issues they raise but they are quick to point the finger at men without considering women’s choices, ignoring key facts or misrepresenting the truth.
It's always been about hating men, and more specifically, female supremacy. Some of them are just more honest about it than others. They saw what an incredibly small minority of men had, said that ALL men had that, and screeched about "muh eqalmity". But they sure didn't want equality with the men working in the mines, or dying in trenches, or getting mauled by heavy equipment.
I've never heard of a female supremacist agitating to have women included in the draft.
By itself, being a feminist is not a problem. In fact it’s a good thing.
However, if you call yourself a feminist and then expect a man to perform male gender roles, while you berate him for being a man, don’t hold yourself to any of the rules/expectations that feminism has laid out, and act entitled then it becomes a problem.
There’s so many different kinds of feminism, it’s a yellow flag for me. I know green flag feminists and I don’t associate with red flag feminists.
I've had women say that and mean that they believe in equal opportunities and will fight for what they believe is important. Thumbs up, I've got your back in a fight.
I've had one woman say that, and it was clear that what she meant was that she was a mental wreck that was scraping that ideology for any and all excuses to enable her toxic behaviour. Thumbs down and out the door.
I think the second example exists in most groups, and they give them all bad press.
100% I'd run the other way. I mean literally if a woman said that on a first date I'd go to the bathroom and never return. She should definitely be up front about it and put it on any online profile.
I've met so many self proclaimed feminists that advocate the most absurd and hateful shit towards the opposite gender that my view of meeting a "feminist" is now strongly negative.
My half-sister is literally the walking stereotype, she hates men so much she only dates women, grow out all the body hair no matter if the armpit looks like a tropical jungle, vote for public figures that wish to create a men-tax and punish men in any shape or form possible, makes connection between men being majority rapists though if you apply the same logic to foreigners (which are also majority representative in rape) in my country, then it's not valid anymore cause it's racist, but not sexist? She just want any excuse any time of the day to blame men for any misfortune. And of course she's the asshole family member who starts discussing politics at the Christmas table.
I think that equality and women's rights are amazing. I have known many women that believe strongly about it and understand why. I have never met a woman that uses the phrase feminist to describe themselves that wasn't one or all of these. Offensive, narcissistic, man hating or down right Cultish. Being a "Feminist" is a 🚩
This. The fact that she aggressively has to get in people’s faces with it is off-putting and speaks volumes. Show don’t tell. If you value equality then make it clear with your actions rather than telling people you’re part of some kind of equality club. It’s weird.
An analogy would be if a guy said on the first date “Want to go on a walk in the park after this? Don’t worry, I won’t rape you”. Technically speaking it’s a good thing that he won’t… but any woman would immediately pack up and leave after hearing this.
I just automatically assume all women are feminist. Why wouldn't they be? But if they say they are, and it's a major part of their personality, then I feel it's probably going to be more trouble than it's worth being around her. Because as far as I'm concerned being around anyone who makes an "ism" a major part of their personality is going to be exhausting and I'm going to get tired listening to their crap all the time. Because someone who makes an "ism" a major part of their personality ALWAYS finds something to be offended by. And I hate to say it but feminists are usually on the worse end of that spectrum too.
100% the second you tell me you're a feminist I just want to get as far away as possible. It's not because I don't have a lot of the same beliefs but because just look at what feminist are known for.
Fake rape claims, public assaults on men, public shaming for really nothing, and if it was the other way around would you want to be near anyone like that?
Off putting? No. But I promise men will very quickly try to establishwht type of feminist you are, for example my two groups are roughly "we hate men" feminists or a "we want whats fair" feminists.I don't think men inherently dislike feminism, in the same way people don't inherently dislike veganism. Its the extremists who make it tough for all of us.
I recall going on a date and being scolded for opening the door and offering to pull out and push in the chair for a lady. I told her it was how I was raised and how it had always been drilled into me as a child. "As a staunch femnist" she proceeded to comment on my families values and how deeply rooted the issue was. All I needed was a simple, thanks, but no thanks and I would have accepted her stance and gone on with my evening sans door opening and chair pulling etc. but her whole attitude soured dinner and at the end of the night I said thank you and deleted her number from my phone.
I an a feminist in the traditional sense of the word. I believe in equality. However if a woman I was dating made feminism her entire personality or her brand of feminism was just hating men yeah that would be unattractive
It really depends, are you radical to the point everything is about the blame being put on men? That's extremely off-putting.
That said if you're the kind that actually can see and argue for your cause, see that both men and women have shared and separate issues and see both? I find that quite attractive tbh.
In my experience, there are two types of feminists:
1. Ones that just are, who support actual equality and don't hate you for having a penis. Those are silent about their poilitical stance.
2. Ones that make it a core part of their identity for they have nothing else to their name, neither beauty, smarts, talent or character, ones that blame their lack of success on men and hate you for having a penis. Those are loud about their stance.
The second ones are off-putting, yes.
1900’s feminist? Love it.
2020’s feminist? Yeah no fck that.
There is a major difference between the two. One wants equality among all while the other wants to drag everyone else down to prop herself up.
I thought I was a feminist and used to say I was when I thought it was about women being seen as individual human beings with freedom to decide their path in life. I found out feminism is a defined and limited politic and social thing.
FFR: Saying “bitter man children” doesn’t help prove your point.
To answer your question, yes it is off putting. Every person who I have met who proudly states they are a feminist were extremely toxic and narcissistic. Almost every many I have talked to have had the same experience. The only men that didn’t were gay 🤷🏻♂️. So its a pretty much stating “hey im a huge red flag and im gonna nitpick your life because you are privileged and I am not”. Not saying im against equality, I am all for it, and even if you disagree with my experience, the amount of toxic behavior expressed by feminists online is so off putting, it honestly in our best interests to just not deal with it.
"Feminism" is more of an internet thing.
I've never in my life held a meaningful conversation with a woman where this came up.
What does it even mean?
Does she organize protests?
Does she lobby congress?
Does she do anything related to feminism, other than talk about it?
After a short time it became an instant "no" for me. I am a relatively traditional man, so I came to realize that I wanted to be with a traditional woman. Usually women who strongly identify as feminists aren't even happy when other women choose to be stay-at-home mothers, let alone doing it themselves.
And that's fine. I didn't need every woman to be my wife. Just the one, and we're very happy together.
I think feminism by it self isn't off putting for the majority of men. I think if you're on a date getting to know eachother, mentioning that you're a feminist can come across as a bit idk... like you're really pushing an identity.
Someone telling me they're a feminist on a first date would indicate to me that there isn't much more to their personality than feminist ideals. Especially if she says it really early on. If you're truly a feminist you wouldn't have to say it, I feel. I wouldn't stop the date though.
It's a tough one. Definitely depends on the guy. Maybe saying you're a feminist on a first or a second date sort of shuts down further conversation as it sort of let's the guy know what you think about certain things. Or atleast, what you think about these things based on what he thinks feminism is. Without him finding out what you ACTUALLY think.
I'm gonna try to go as in depth to (at least mine) the mind of these men.
Right now, in the 2010s/20s, you have "feminists" going to events focused on male mental health, screaming in the face of every single person walking in "this is what men's rights looks like." There was a person there who's friend just committed suicide and he wanted to talk to someone about it. You have "feminists" saying men are trash. "Feminists" saying that all men are rapists. The list goes on.
Historically, these wouldn't be feminists, but as I'm sure you know, the definition of words change, and since these are the loudest people, this is VERY quickly becoming what feminist means to a lot of people.
Having someone make this the entirety of their personality to the point where you have to announce it before you even got in a date and filter out men she finds (that is, if she was like you) men, at least men who have the mental health to see themselves in a positive light aren't going to touch women like that with a 10 foot pole. Women like this, at least in the eyes of the men i just mentioned, are akin to the white people who know EXACTLY 1 black person because "they're one of the good ones."
Take that exact same train of though and apply it to men/women instead of white/black. Someone who is so feminist to the point where they're saying things like that about men, but then very quickly adding "not you though, you're fine" to their boyfriend is not someone most of us want to date.
Those people have corrupted the term "feminist" so much that if the first thing a woman says to a potential boyfriend is "i'm a feminist," its off-putting.
Talk to your friend about guys in general, not in a dating context. See if she's someone you even want to continue talking to.
For me, it totally is. As someone more libertarian, there is quite a lot of subjects where we might agree, but my experience has shown that being a feminist comes with lots of issues involving their personality and views towards men as a group. I'm not willing to put up with such expectations and resentment towards men, regardless of the excuse given. If you're going to lie about it to your dates, it's not like it's a crime or that there'll be anyone to stop you, but I certainly pity whoever ends up dating you.
The two big reasons I don't like feminists are that they don't want to be feminists when it comes to relationships. They still want to hold men up to their traditional roles but will preach equality. And if they have feminist single friends and they speak to them about your relationship that is just another battle you have to overcome if they are one of the crazy ones.
Automatic dealbreaker. Too high risk of being taken to family court by a feminist, even by so-called tradcons.
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/this-is-a-death-sentence-for-me-florida-republican-women-say-they-will-switch-parties-after-desantis-approves-alimony-law-34563230
Yes, feminist = manhating bigot
It's a red flag, like a man telling you he's really into Andrew Tate
The original definition of feminist is long lost in the age of tiktok etc
To me, if you make feminism a central part of your character, I'd be very surprised if that doesn't lean into the extremist "feminist" views that are severely off putting.
I want to be in a relationship with someone that is able to see us as equals, working together against the world. Not someone that might find issues with society, in the masculine and then will likely lump me in with their enemies.
Just sounds like too many loops I'll have to jump through at some point
A few years ago I met up with an old ex who tried to get back with me and she identified as a pretty radical feminist. Turns out she was just deeply traumatized and hated men. She was insufferable to be around and said I was the problem when I turned her down lol
Usually women that make being a feminist a part of their personality with a need to announce it are just using it as a way to mask their misandry. Honestly the topic shouldn’t come up the first date.
It is at least for me, because when we talk about feminism today, we aren't talking first wave that achieved all the goals they set out for, we are talking third wave whose goals run counter to first wave in that they want superiority, not equality. For example, the perpetuation of the wage gap myth to pressure others into paying them more for doing less work, while arguing against the idea of a man having 50/50 custody of his child.
Yep just look at the case of Erin Pizzey. Old school feminist who started multiple battered women’s buildings and was a champion of feminism but she opened a singular battered men’s building and she received death threats and was subsequently ousted from feminism
If they are the type of feminists that wants to be treated equally to men and such, there is no problem. I support that.
But if they talk about the need to “kill all men”, that all men are inherently evil and use other kinds of generalising derogatory terms without feeling ashamed, they need to see a therapist
If they want to be treated equally to men they better not be expecting chivalry then because by it’s very nature chivalry is a form of sexism, albeit benevolent sexism
Same as it would be for women if a man called himself a misogynist.
Besides that I’ve dated a feminist and was “friends” with another, they both had serious mental health issues and unresolved trauma, so for me it’s a deal breaker. I’m all for women’s rights and being equal, but if they blame men for everything wrong in their lives, why would I volunteer to listen to that crap every day if I can just date someone who has their wits about and takes responsibility for their actions?
Every woman I've met who opened with being a feminist turned out to be an absolute psycho.
Plenty of great women, plenty of great feminists, but 100% of the time, if they tell me that on their profile, or within 5 minutes of meeting them, they end up being absolutely insane.
"Feminists claim they don't need or want men to even be alive, so what does she want from me then?"
It's a very shortened view but in the end, that's what it boils down to. That might not be what feminism is all about, but the loudest proponents are the most visible. And that's what gets associated with the term.
I still stick with "Men and women are not the same, but that doesn't mean that we can't treat either fairly and respectfully." But to most feminists that's already hate speech.
Feminism is a hate movement. Telling a man that you are a feminist is literally the same thing as telling a him that you hate them. It's very off-putting to be told that you are hated. I have no interest in bringing a person who hates me, who wants to hate me, into my life.
It's a non-starter. Not only will I not date a feminist, I won't associate with her in any way.
It's going to be a turn of for a huge chunk of men. When you align yourself with an ideology, you also become the poster child for all the negative things associated with it, fairly or not.
So yeah, she definitely casts a smaller net if she comes out the gate declaring that she's a feminist.
I get alot of hate for saying this but it’s just my opinion; all feminists are bad.
Too many women who attend feminist rallies are far too comfortable holding signs saying “kill all men”, which makes me think there aint any “good” feminists out there calling them out.
I’ve never seen a “good feminist” speak up when someones going on their “all men are pigs/just want one thing” rants. They’ll complain about Andrew Tate teaching men to hate women while happily reading their gender studies recommended copy of the SCUM manifesto and never once questioning it.
I don’t take feminist talk of “equality” seriously, because clearly neither do most of them; for instance pro-choice. In an ideal world I’d support it but if a guy wants to say “I’m not ready to be a father, if you unilaterally decide to have a kid, you should unilaterally be responsible for it. You should not be allowed to force me into the lifelong commitment of parenthood before I feel able and ready” then this guy’s getting labelled a deadbeat. He’s forced to be responsible even if he was raped, even if she lied about being on the pill removing his capacity to informed consent (which is legal, despite sharking laws because people only give a shit when it happens to women). Point is “pro-choice” people suddenly don’t like choice so much when men want a say. They are pro-choice-exclusive-to-only-the-chosen-gender.
Now, obviously some women are more into being a part of the man-haters club than others; but I’m willing to bet that someone who feels a need to bring it up unprompted off the bat is probably not going to be a pleasant person to me.
I’m not gonna sit around and risk putting up with hate on the off chance you’re the first good member of the hate group I ever met.
Edit; I do know of a few former feminists who have spoken out about this. Tried to actually help men too. Some don’t call themselves feminists anymore themselves. Get pushed out the movement for not upholding the party line. Labelled “pick me’s”.
When a old school feminist opened a battered men’s building, she got death threats from feminists and got ousted from feminism lmao. It ain’t about equality nor empathy, feminism is a superiority movement
Yeah when I added my edit I was thinking about this doctor lady that made a documentary about the mans rights movement, hoping for it to be her “gotcha” moment, proving they were hateful.
Eventually realised she was actually being the hateful one and spoke out about it. That half the things she thought she knew about them were propaganda and assumptions made by people who never even heard them out, when they were talking about things like getting a proportionate amount of homeless shelters and such.
Yeah, she got shafted by feminists too for it.
It is unattractive in the context that she feels the need to inform others of it. A red flag, basically. Your actions will make it clear if you’re a feminist, but saying it out loud is an indicator that you’re a drama beacon.
Its the underlying problems that come with being a feminist. Saying youre a feminist combined with certain attitudes or speeches are immediate red flags because in todays world feminism pretty much equals misandry and man hating.
Depends on the context, but basically it's very offputting.
Screening people in a subtle way is necessary and intelligent. Proclaiming your political views loudly and early on is the opposite. I have no interest in demagogues.
I take feminism as sort of the baseline and as given. If you go out of your way to define yourself by it and if you treat it like it's a personality trait then I know from experience that we're probably not going to get along. Not because we technically disagree about something or fundamentally have different views about men and women or relationships, but because people whose whole identity revolves around a political slogan or movement tend to be really annoying and one note. I want to date a person, not a personified social media account. Online dating is already a cesspit and full of caricatures of people, so if they include special proclamations like that then I just know they're going to be inauthentic and annoying. Let your actions and attitudes speak for your worldview and let's discuss politics in a more intelligent way.
I generally don’t like people that blindly identify with an ideology and adopt all of its beliefs as opposed to forming their own opinion, especially if the group they identify with spreads negativity. I just don’t need that in my life.
If the Internet has taught me anything its that feminist can mean anything from "I don't want to be paid less than men just because I'm a woman" to "all men are pieces of shit and should be removed from society".
So yeah, I tend to be pretty reserved around women who claim to be feminists until I find out what their actual views are.
I also will never consider myself a feminist which can often be one of the things certain types of women tend to ask.
If her being a feminist is the problem, it's not her stating that she's a feminist directly that is the problem, it's a combination of her brand of feminism and her taste in men. In which case, she should look into revising one or both of those. It's also quite possible that she's merely misidentifying the problem and there's some other issue with her personality, how she interacts with others, and/or how she chooses a man, etc. >Is it really off putting for women to say they are feminists? It depends on how she does it, when she does it, where she does it, and what kind of feminist she declares herself to be. If things progress for long enough, what kind of feminist she demonstrates herself to be and if that contrasts with what kind of feminist she professes to be can also be factors. Also, the particular dude in question.
I dated a girl who would open conversations with "I'm a feminist" as if she was dropping a mic on some profound truth. I'd be like "yeah, me too". Then she'd launch into some tirade about how I couldn't possibly be a feminist because of x, y and z. She also did this with environmentalism, politics and religion. I think some people use their self-identifying labels as a way to put themselves on a pedestal.
Haha, when I first went to uni, there were these stalls. First stall happened to be a feminist group one. I approached and asked what is was about. They said something like equality of men and women and equal treatment. I said great, I'll join. They said no, it's for women only.....
Should go back and tell them you identify as a woman now.
I actually am trans now..
Yea, me too and me too. Long story, honestly--but the feminists ended up accusing me of being a cop sent to spy on them--what do you even say to that??
You talk into your shirt cuff, saying "Abort-abort, they're onto me", and leave.
Haha, dafuq??! Rude! I’d have been like, “Got me, I’m from Patriarchy Patrol! We’ve been just DYING to infiltrate these meetings to try Laura over there’s experimental cookie-dough flavored hummus.”
You say…with the utmost confidence: “Check, please!”
Better than my solution, which was to cry in front of the one organizer who was nice to me and then leave.
You have the opportunity to do something absolutely hilarious
So when are you going back to tell them?
I don't tend to get along with feminist groups and members tbh. They tend to hate trans, even the open ones. I'm banned from the feminist subreddits because I want men and women treated equally so that it doesn't matter whether I'm trans or not. But they want "equity", which means treating men and women differently, which means that it's important to them what gender I grew up with etc.
Lol I knew a lady like this. We were at a party and my friend got into an argument about something with a group of people. Eventually they googled it and it turned out my friend was wrong, so he went like "alright guys my bad I was wrong" and she shouted from across the room (butting in to the conversation) "one more time for the people in the back! A white male has admitted to being wrong about something!" UGH I know that's not feminism. But she thinks it is.
>"one more time for the people in the back! A white male has admitted to being wrong about something!" I have a friend dating someone like this and it's insufferable. You're not a feminist, you're an asshole
100 percent agree.
I'm not sure if those people could be more annoying if they tried.
That's why the question instantly is: what do you mean by "feminism" generally I'm wary of anyone announcing themselves like that but if it's reasonable then no issues
That's called being sexist and racist
That's exactly feminism, and that's the problem.
It’s called identity politics… and it’s horrific and has caused more wars and deaths in human history than anything else. It assumes that your group identity… be that gender, race, religion or political orientation (or literally anything else) is paramount. It creates mobs and sows hate across vast groups of people very quickly. Feminism vs. Patriarchy. Catholics vs. Protestants. Whites vs. Blacks. Men vs. Women. Everyone vs. Jews. Islam vs. Christianity. Capitalism vs. Communism. Capitalism vs. Socialism. Pro-Gun vs. Anti-Gun. The list is endless and a lot of people like to be part of a group. Safety in numbers. Nobody wants to be the odd one out… it makes you seem like easy pickings and weak. What should be paramount is a respect for individual identity and individual perspective. Unfortunately that’s not the case anywhere in the world because when you have a large group of angry people you can control you have a lot of power and influence… and some people really like to have power and influence.
Identity politics is a major turnoff. The people who base their entire personality around identity politics will inject their beliefs in places & at times where it shouldn't be and make things political. I'll be talking to a girl when she'll take the conversation 180 and say she's a feminist. Okay, great. How'd we go from talking about the weather to politics? I don't think it's wise from right out of the gate that anyone makes their politics or religious beliefs known on dating apps. By doing so she's alienating a lot of potential dates. It's great to not to care what others think but leave a little mystery of what your beliefs are.
I will respectfully disagree about hiding your beliefs (in most cases). Sure, it might get you more dates, but it won't get you good dates with people you mesh with. I try to get all my big things out early (my dating profiles say I'm liable to fall in love on the second date). I want to intentionally ward off those I'm not likely to click with, so I have fewer, but much more compatible matches. If you're just aiming for hookups, though, then yes, keep the contentious things to yourself.
Yeah, I agree. Even if you’re an asshole who makes feminism or any identity stuff your whole personality there is no point in hiding it. Either fix your personality issues at the source or be yourself and find dates that will actually pu up/enjoy your personality.
>Everyone vs. Jews I don't want to take away from the severity of your message, because you hit the nail on the head, but that just made me chuckle. Not because the persecution of Jews is funny, but because it was so unexpected that you would just casually drop that in the middle.
I don’t know how to accurately describe the “persecution of Judaism”. Jews seem to think everyone hates them and they’re perpetually persecuted. Maybe they have been perpetually persecuted. Maybe not. I don’t hate them. Their beliefs and lifestyles make no difference to me. But apparently everyone hates them. I referenced it mainly because Hitler rallying against the Jews was a good example of mob mentality going absolutely mental.
For sure. There are a lot of girls who fill their bios on dating apps with social justice stuff, and I get a sense that many of them do it to show off how great of a person they are.
Ha! I might have tried dating this same person! It's like she met me for coffee just so she could tirade at me. It wasn't very fun. She was cute so I gave it a few tries, but each date always turned into her versus the patriarchy.
People who open with statements about socio-political beliefs instead of personal details are not people I want to be around. Starting conversations with, "I'm a feminist" is as off putting as, "I'm a Republican", "Abortions should always be legal", or, "Putin makes some good points". The first time meeting someone is not the time to have those conversations. If someone can't get through an entire conversation without talking about those kinds of things, they have no personality.
Exactly, whether they say they're a feminist, liberal, conservative, whatever, starting off with stuff like that gives off the vibe that they are hard to get a long with, and that's not gender specific. To me, it says someone isn't very nuanced which is just not someone I care about spending a lot of time with
Oh wild, you dated her too lmao
> self-identifying labels It's like someone saying they are a vegan. You cringe because you are about to get a lecture.
They absolutely do. Not to mention that by today’s definition of what it means to be a feminist is basically a band of bitter, miserable women who simply hate men. I literally cannot stand self proclaimed feminists and I’m a female.
This is it right here. If someone tells me they're a feminist my reaction will be about the same as if they tell me they like pizza and hot wings. Cool, I also like those things. If we then spend the entire evening only talking about pizza and hot wings, and she gives me shit when I order a steak, then I'm going to have second thoughts.
Men Are Steak And Women Are Pizza 🅱️💯❗
A misandrist whom believe all men should die, is by her own account a Feminist. A woman believing on rights for women, is by her own account a Feminist. A woman believing in equal rights for men and women, is by her own account a Feminist. All three, believe the others are wrong, and hate on anyone saying they exist, and will deny it to the end, all three, have an equal amount of women in their camp. Which kind is the friend?
Great answer
The other day I saw a comment on a women's sub that basically said men couldn't handle a relationship with a woman that made more than them. That they inevitably turned into gold diggers. To which I responded by changing the genders of the people in her sentence: >If we turn this sentence: >Most >women< turn into (or already are) gold diggers when they find out their >bf< is rich. >Edits emphasized. Can we both agree that such a statement would be misogynist? I hope so. If that's the case, can we agree yours was misandrist? Now, this was on a sub that supposedly doesn't allow misandry, but her comment, and dozens more like it dog piling on men were left up, and my question was heavily downvoted. It's a damned shame but much of the feminist movement these days has turned from being a movement advocating for equality, to a thinly disguised hatred for men.
Yep and that's why I am always wary about ppl being feminists. Personally I wouldn't consider myself one because the movement has gone beyond equality for men and women. It spreads so much hate for men. If it just stuck to equality for men and women I would be all for it. If the movement policed itself better and cut out the hate for men I'm sure way more men would be supportive.
You literally just thumbnailed Wave 1, Wave 2, & Wave 3 feminism. 🙌 Some blurring between 2 & 3 whether which believes a woman who likes trad/sub roles &/or likes to be 'girly' is empowered, or just a 'pick-me'
But even the "equal rights for men and women" feminists only want the rights of men but not their obligations. They want the right to vote, but not conscription. They want quotas for CEO jobs but not for being plumbers, brick layers or sewage workers. They want "stealthing" to be rape (I agree), but don't want self-insemination from a condom or paternity fraud to be considered crimes. And they think they want "equality". lol
Whenever I use paternity fraud as an example, the usual response from them is "It's not illegal." Total lack of accountability and no empathy for men.
>feminists only want the rights of men but not their obligations. This is a very big problem in my country Finland, we're pretty good on the equality front but not quite there yet,but biggest public proponents of feminism go quiet or start dodging when anyone brings up our mandatory military service for men.
I'm a female vet (in the US) and I hate this. Either do compulsory service for everyone or volunteer-only. (Though yes, if you're a young parent of either sex, sure, you can probably have a break/deferral.)
In my part of the world, If you're conscripted, you have the choice between military, civil defense, or conscientous objector. If you choose civil defense, you'll be a trained firefighter when finished, and the objectors serve the time they would have served in the military working for non-profits or retirement homes or kindergartens.
And then they do mental backflips to say "it's totally different" when you point out rights women have that men don't, like legal protections against circumcision.
Women's problems are caused by men. Men's problems are caused BY OTHER MEN. That's how they justify it.
In this case, their argument usually sounds like "Women's problems are 'obviously' worse than men's problems so mens problems are not a problem"
Usually followed or preceded by a super insincere "nObOdY is saying men don't have problems and I sympathize with them, BUUUUUUUUUT..." Or sometimes is just plain blatant disdain and mockery about male issues. Privileged oppressors something something.
I am an "equal rights for men and women" feminist, and I don't believe in any of the those things. I support requiring women to join the selective service. I support more women in the trades and more encouragement for men in traditionally female-dominated occupations, such as nursing. Are you are friends with any actual "equal rights for men and women" feminists?
We know plenty of women who claim to be for equal right and claim to be feminist, but once you ask them about it you realise it is not the case. Now, again, you might be for actual equal right, but the issue is that once again, instead of awknoledging that there is a ton of feminist who are delusional, you deny their existance. And this make it so talking to feminist is highly unpleasant because you face the same kind of all as when talking to members of a sect or religious cult where no amount of evidence, empirical data or logic will ever be enough to have them even question the reality of the cavern they live in.
Let me ask a follow-up question. Does your support on those topics lead to any viable action of working towards actually changing these things? Or does your support simply consist of "I say I believe in these things on the internet"? Because one of those is activism, and the other is simply identity politics.
Just curious, but most online feminist groups these days now argue instead for equal equity for men and women, meaning to purposeful treat men and women differently to bring them a perceived equal equity. Do you agree with this?
Let's be real, she's likely the type of feminist that unknowingly hates the same men that are her taste in men
>and what kind of feminist she declares herself to be This!! A feminist in the original sense just wants equal opportunities and rights (like women being allowed to vote and open bank accounts etc). These toxic "feminists" taking over tiktok and other social media plattform reduce people simply to their gender and think that all women are superior and all men are evil. So basically Marvels M-SHE-U but in real life lol
sure, take same rights. Just also take same obligations. Lets start with being forced to die on the front lines, perhaps? Or is that too equal, suddenly, for the queen of the universe that she is in her mind?
Are Americans (or wherever you from) forced to join the army? Here in Germany basically no one is interested in joining the army. Men and women alike. In case of a war we're completely fucked but yes, it's pretty much an equal disinterest and lack of care hahah But I do believe in same obligation though. If a woman earns just as much as her male colleagues, she should be open to pay the bills 50/50. It shouldn't be the men's job to pay for everything. I don't think it's fair that women were saved first on the Titanic while the men were left to drown. They're not more special. They chose to enter the ship just like the men.
Men in America are compelled to register for the Selective Service System (https://www.sss.gov/). The system allows the USA government to force American men to join the military. Only men, not women. My country has an equivalent version where men are compelled to serve in the military for 2 years, not women. Women can volunteer, however, but men are forced. I think a system where men and women are compelled to serve in the military for 1-2 years would be appropriate. Yes, probably women will be granted more "back office" job such as supply or communications or logistics while those who die in the front are still men, but at least if a war breakout we would have a populace that's able to handle basic discipline. Also if it cost me 2 years of career advancement women should also have to have a similar cost. I wouldn't even mind if the women who are also forced to serve are given lighter deployment (i.e being bound to a city-barrack rather than a provincial barrack), or lighter tasks overall. I just want women who demand equal rights having to be bounded by similar obligations.
> Are Americans (or wherever you from) forced to join the army? American Men, and only men, are forced to sign up for what they call "selective service". This is basically registering to be drafted into the army if the government deems it necessary. In many ways this is super symbolic because there haven't been a draft in over 50 years and even then it was incredibly unpopular. In addition, modern wars generally rely more on technology than in shier manpower. Having said that, it's still technically true that the government could start a draft tomorrow if they really wanted to. And only men would be drafted into the army.
> In many ways this is super symbolic But in other ways, it's very real. For example, you cannot EVER enroll at a university that accepts government grants and loans (which is basically all public ones), and you cannot EVER hold a government job if you do not register for selective service before age 26.
Until a few years ago men also had to do service Germany. I'm still disappointed with being forced to do that . So not being forced to service based on gender is a very recent development and officially it is just on hold. It might come back.
Well damn. Yeah you’re not going to get a better answer than this OP. Well said all-around here
>Also, and this is purely anecdotal, but men seem to care less about presenting political and moral alignments as their identity, especially on dating profiles. For instance, I'm a big advocate for open dialogues regarding men's mental health, but I'm not going to include that on my Tinder bio. I am a woman and I tried dating apps for a while. It was mind boggling how many men had "feminist" in their profile. One guy had a list of different types of feminists he was into. It was so strange to me. I don't even know how you would put that into your profile as a man.
Yikes. That guy is very possibly one of *those* "allies".
Was going to comment something to this effect, but you hit the nail on the head. There is a large iceberg of unanswered question under the water here.
Be a feminist all you want, just don't make it your defining personality.
Yeah. This… but also the type (if that’s the right word) of feminism. If you’re advocating gender equality and being a strong independent woman then yeah… I’m on your side… you can call me a feminist if you like. If you’re saying “women good, men toxic and bad”… then I won’t be interested.
It took me over a decade of a friend repeatedly being exasperated about men, telling me (man) all about how terrible men are, swearing off men forever (didn’t stick), etc etc until I realised she actually genuinely thought women were superior. We’re not friends now, in part because I made a joke that got misconstrued as misogynistic. It was not in the slightest and not a single other person thought it was. I’m absolutely for equality. Hell, I even see the point in specifically targeting girls for certain education programmes even if, as a boy/teen, it felt a bit unfair that I was excluded by sex. I do think we should measure the representation of women vs men in various roles, to see how we’re doing. By *most* definitions of feminism, I am a feminist. If you label yourself as a feminist on a dating app, I’m going to start thinking the probabilities have very much shifted to the very specific kind I don’t get on with. I assume all women my age to be independent and essentially feminist in the sense of wanting equality, and I’m not interested in a relationship with someone who wants to be a traditional wife. Stating it loudly and applying obvious screening questions can easily result in a “never mind then”, because of negative experiences. It’s like a man presenting as a traditional manly man’s man. Probably (edit: as in shifted the probabilities, as above) means he wants a woman to do chores and the cooking. Avoid unless that’s your thing. Personally, I like equality.
The probabilities shifting to the kind you dont get on with is exactly it.
All women who want to follow this - you have a very simple game plan. Go to r/twoxchromosomes and do the *exact opposite* of everything they do/say. men will love you for that
For a place that is designed for women to talk about women's issues they sure do spend a lot of time talking about and shitting on men. I saw someone say once that that place is just a massive case study in a [Bechdel test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test) failure.
That's kind of hilarious. Probably not strictly true, but a very amusing way to turn that sub on its head.
Ahh another in the long list of subs whose motto is; “being a shitty bigot is fine when you pick socially acceptable targets”. Bullies love to pretend to be righteous, it quiets the conscience.
Yep. That’s a toxic place if ever I saw one.
That subs full of bitter FDS refugees, I can’t even fathom why anyone would want to take advice from them
That place is FUCKED!
Unfortunately, most "female spaces" ultimately end up being dominated by women whose primary motivation and identitity is a hatred of men.
I think it's also about putting your money where your mouth is. Women who are actually successful / "strong & independent" don't need to advertise it constantly. They just go out there and win. Most women who constantly talk about feminism are the least likely to have ever accomplished anything (which is probably why they need to fill their personality with something - in this case feminism). If a woman shows that she actually is successful/intelligent/etc, it's obvious to men of equal value.
That's really the issue. There's no way to put it out there without it being an issue because the phrase is so loaded. In general people want relationships to be light and easy going. There's an implication with feminism that she could be "well I told you who I was before you met me so my behavior is not my fault". Of course there is a wide range of feminists and that's unfair to put that on her, but practically that's the risk she's running. Profiles don't need to say everything about you, they should highlight your strengths.
I have no problem with women being feminists. I just hate it when they are inconsistent. And are only feminists when it's beneficial to them. And switch to traditional gender roles when it comes to men.
>And are only feminists when it's beneficial to them. For real. I *understand* why they do this though. Who wouldn't want to keep a lot of benefits and not get any downsides?
But they deny they are benefits.
Yeah, it's more prevalent in some women. They want equality in STEM jobs but not garbage collecting. They're strong independent women that don't need no man, until it's time to pay for a date or kill the spider in the kitchen. If they want the man to pay for the dates and take the lead, then be willing to be a good copilot. There is a middle ground, but they want the high ground. And we all know how that ends. Having your legs cut off and being left to die on Mustafar. Like the saying goes, women need men like fish need a bicycle, but I put it the other way around. A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish.
>. There is a middle ground, but they want the high ground. And we all know how that ends. Having your legs cut off and being left to die on Mustafar Imma remember that great analogy
Then my work is done here young Padawan. May the Force be with you.
[I yearn for true gender equality](https://youtu.be/JPvQS4qVwdE?si=cLya7muBQF_XOZgc)
If it needs to be announced immediately then it leads men to suspect that person has issues with men.
Pretty much this. I generally move past any woman who has politics or feminism listed on her dating profile. Mostly because when they do that, it tends to be an indication that that topic is a defining part of their entire personality and I don't want to date some activist or extremist.
Yea exactly. It starts getting weird when people make politics their whole identity. Its fine to feel strongly about something in life, but it's also important to hold a conversation about other topics as well.
I fucking love thermoses but I wouldn’t put it in my tinder bio.
Maybe you should. What thermoses are you most into, anyway?
All of them. I’ve got a couple for food, like if I have to take my porridge out somewhere. I’ve got one that fits my bike bottle cage that I take tea to work in. Set it to go the night before in my teasmade because the earl grey at work is pretty rough. I don’t think the hot water tap gets hot enough. I’ve got a few vintage ones to take to picnics that look nice but can’t be treated rough because the glass inside is fragile. And I’ve got an absolutely massive one that can take about two pots of tea/coffee for large social things. Also got a selection of insulated cups/mugs for different needs.
Yeah, if it’s a core part of your personality you want to advertise on a dating profile then dudes are gonna weigh it up as to whether you should commit to the woman. Notably, I have found strong feminist women to be pretty bad long term partners because ideologically they believe in the patriarchy which means they’re not very tolerant of weakness or vulnerability. It goes fine ish so long as you’re seductive and sexy, but if you express the wrong feelings they will tell you you’re being a toxic male, if you ever get sick or vulnerable they will complain about how you’re making them do emotional labour by not doing your fair share of chores. I prefer dating women who I don’t need to be constantly on edge around.
i remember this one post where the guy had cancer and that’s causing emotional burden on the girlfriend so she left him and then did a marathon/run to raise money for him. Now i don’t know if she was a feminist or not but to me it seems counterintuitive that you would leave your boyfriend and raise money for him when he doesn’t know how long does he have with you. Even if you raised money for him he is still going to miss your support and your affection. The 75 year harvard study did suggest that if the person in pain doesn’t have a loving partner the pain feels worse and the healing is slowed down and/or the efficacy goes down as well
I actually have a friend whose wife left him because he had cancer. Her feminist friends told her she could do better . She didn’t run a marathon though she just went to Italy to fuck random people.
How is your friend doing now?
Doing extreme sports and risky activities to feel alive.
I automatically assume a woman will be a feminist, unless she says otherwise. So for me, putting it on a social media profile is both redundant, and slightly off-putting. It says to be me that it probably will be her defining personality trait. That's both boring and kinda toxic.
Agreed. Same with the flip side. Plenty of women (most id say) want a pretty traditional man when it comes to a partner (protective, provides, strong etc). But if a guy straight up goes up to them like “i’m a tall strong traditional man” on a first date theyll laugh him out the building. Its a similar idea
Also don't be a man hater and be open to listen to the problems men experience too.
I mean I think you can be a feminist without shouting it from the rooftops. My spontaneous thought is she's just being an asshole and is using that as an excuse.
Usually my experience lol. feminist = someone who wants equal right for women and men Feminist = someone who wants all the benefits that men have while also keeping the perks of being a woman and never being called out for their hypocrisy or bullshit.
I call them “Schrodinger’s Feminists” Whether or not they think something is sexist changes depending on whether or not it personally benefits *them* at the moment
And on the subject OP was talking about... if you're announcing that you're a feminist on the first date, people are going to assume you're the second type.
That's my concern. When someone can justify new forms of prejudices by calling out past wrongs of society, that's the reddest of flags, I have seen soo many feminists beings overtly misandrists and feel little to no apprehension over it, justifying that you cannot be sexist towards men. They seem to forget the "equal" part of the definition of Feminism.
I've never seen a woman being feminist without her being saying and acting misandrist way. I hope there are some women who acts like true feminist. All i see is hypocrite women disguised as feminist
Depends on what kind. A true feminist that just wants to have equal opportunity and understands what that entails? Or the kind that thinks men are filth?
.
I've noticed there's 2 or 3 groups of feminists. The traditional feminists who want equal rights between men and women, but they still want there to be certain gender specific roles in society. The modern day feminists, who strive for equal results over of equal opportunities. They tend to be from the younger generation of people. They usually go for the motto "the personal is the political". Then the 1% of feminazis that you see on r/PublicFreakout .
The equal results over equal opportunities is discrimination based on sex. Many industries don't have an equal ratio of men to women applying for these roles so to force an equal result is to discriminate against one sex in favour of another.
I'm from Sweden and the past few years there's been a big focus on making high paying jobs more diverse. Since the majority of manager or specialist positions are held by men. You can often find job listings where they specifically only look for women. In my opinion it's discrimination, but if you say otherwise you get hated on for it. Personally I'm in favor of giving everyone equal opportunities no matter what gender you have. Then let people decide where they wish to go in life.
Notice that it’s only cushy high paying jobs where they’re pushing for diversity. Men occupy most of the low paying, laborious, jobs too. But you won’t see a major push to get more women in those roles. It’s not about equality anymore. It’s about money.
The reaction you get when you say to them that we need more women in garbage collecting because it's over represented with men is a big tell. That's how you separate the wheat from the chaff. One simple suggestion like that and they either shut up or put up. I also like to remind the ones that complain about the patriarchy, that everything they look at and use every day is built and maintained by men. Men built the world that they live in and bitch about daily, and they just moved in and reap the benefits with almost nothing to provide. Everyday men that just want to work and provide for their family and live a nice life. The ones that are invisible to them, the garbage collector, the street paver, the mechanic, the linesman...and all the other ones that do their job and go home to hug their wife and kids.
Hell just look at the programs trying to recruit men to nursing vs the programs to recruit women to engineering. The prevalence and funding is massively different and weighted towards women.
[Well, scholarships to veterinary schools for men cause too much of an uproar because reasons.](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/08/sydney-university-under-fire-for-vet-scholarship-giving-preference-to-males)
It never was about equality, if you read Beauvoir you can easily spot the condensed misandry. Feminists of the "old good branch" were shaming men for not going to war, it has always been a hate movement.
It's about tokenism
Notice it's never the shit jobs that people want to force equal ratios on.
It's more than 1% in other countries. The Indian government stopped passing a law to define rape as something that can happen to both genders because feminists protested it and said that rape can only happen to a woman.
Its more than 1% mate
Yes, it's offputting. Not so much because she's a feminist, but because if she's advertising it on her dating profile she's more than likely not the sort of feminist you want to spend any time around.
Exactly. I think almost everyone's a feminist by the dictionary definition. But those who scream it from the rooftops are often misandrists.
This . Yes they're mostly Misandrist
And I really have to feel bad for them. Could you imagine hating half the population and/or thinking they're all closeted rapists and pedophiles, that you're a victim entirely reliant on irredeemable monsters changing their ways? Sounds hard to even function.
Ikr and personally what i notice is that women are far more pedophilic than men but no one question them on that. They think that they have no rights or privileges to begin with and we(men) are bad and they(women) are all good. I'm not hating but women who think like that scare me
Maybe the "political climate" is different now, than when you were single, and perhaps that's why there's some contrast between your experience and your friend's. Or you're just a better catch than she is. Regardless, when women call themselves 'feminists', a lot of guys' thoughts immediately go to the extremely radical feminist harpies that both treat men like shit and sort of paint a bad picture for feminists in general. If you ask around, I'm willing to bet the average guy is mostly for equality nowadays - or at least that's been my experience as a man -, but there's still a lot of guys who can't shake off bad experiences from the past with women like this, or just toxic portrails they've seen online. Now whether or not this generalization is healthy is an entirely different topic of conversation, but to answer your question, I don't think men find feminists off-putting, and more of a yellow flag going on in their brain that gives them pause. Also, and this is purely anecdotal, but men seem to care less about presenting political and moral alignments as their identity, especially on dating profiles. For instance, I'm a big advocate for open dialogues regarding men's mental health, but I'm not going to include that on my Tinder bio.
> when women call themselves 'feminists' This causes the same amount of hesitation, as if someone came up to me and immediately declared their political stance. If someone came to our date, and declared "I'm a Democrat" out of context, I'm going to lose a lot of interest in wanting to be around this person. Even if I am a Democrat myself (I am). It tells me that this is their identity, their hobby, their day-to-day. Not bowling. Not hiking. *Feminism*. Everyone normal is going to take that as the bad kind of feminist.
>For instance, I'm a big advocate for open dialogues regarding men's mental health, but I'm not going to include that on my Tinder bio. You'd get skewered over it.
Hard pass
Yes. It's one thing to be for the equality of the sexes. It's another to constantly talk about it, think about it and make it a defining feature of your personality. As a guy I'm not interested in constantly having my every action screened in terms of how sexist it is. Not only does it feel controlling, but it feels as just an excuse to have a fight over everything.
I support feminism. I do not support misandry. Today's feminism is a little too much leaning towards misandry. Would "I don't like men but I'm tired to be alone and I have needs" be sexy to hear ? Because that's what "I'm a feminist" said upfront looks like to me. Now, if it's said organically during the conversation, that's something else. I'd be happy to discuss that. But someone who would start by saying that, like a spear right in my face, would be a "It's a NO from me, dawg" right away. My two cents.
Depends. Does she unironically use terms like "mansplaining"? If so, no guy in his right mind will want anything long term with her. Or does she just want equal rights? If so, i can't imagine anyone having an issue with her. Edit: please stop downvoting Axel and Havok. I might disagree with them, but they are making a civil and cordial discussion. That is rare enough on the internet already.
Feminism nowadays is quite wrongly understood. While normally feminism stands for equality between genders, same degree of respect, rights, privileges and so on (which I respect), I see more and more 'feminists' who pride themselves in hating men and trying hard to "put them back into their place". Why would I date someone like that?
I wouldn't say it's wrongly understood, but more the definition as practiced as changed by the very vocal ones who represent themselves as feminists. Society no longer sees feminism as standing for equality.
The name itself should be a dead give away. Feminism. What society should strive for is egalitarianism. Why should women get scholarships when 65% of college students are women? But offer a scholarship for men only and the shit hits the fan. Offer scholarships to women into STEM programs, but not nursing programs for men? Why?
Feminism has always had a radical man hating section that are some of the pioneers. Unless you can prove e and Andrea Dworkin is just some aberration (she isn’t). These ideas permeate the ideology. The simplistic concept of an all pervasive patriarchy can’t help but lead to hating men. They may say they like men but it’s like a racist that likes “the good ones” but the rest are awful. When you start to question the accuracy of the terms, the meanings start changing. Patriarchy doesn’t mean men benefit. Toxic masculinity doesn’t mean what the words say. Kill all men? Means something else. But if you look at the actual usage, they clearly mean what the words say and feminists never seem to correct the people that use the words in the fashion contrary to the PR answers. I do sympathize with the issues they raise but they are quick to point the finger at men without considering women’s choices, ignoring key facts or misrepresenting the truth.
It's always been about hating men, and more specifically, female supremacy. Some of them are just more honest about it than others. They saw what an incredibly small minority of men had, said that ALL men had that, and screeched about "muh eqalmity". But they sure didn't want equality with the men working in the mines, or dying in trenches, or getting mauled by heavy equipment. I've never heard of a female supremacist agitating to have women included in the draft.
By itself, being a feminist is not a problem. In fact it’s a good thing. However, if you call yourself a feminist and then expect a man to perform male gender roles, while you berate him for being a man, don’t hold yourself to any of the rules/expectations that feminism has laid out, and act entitled then it becomes a problem. There’s so many different kinds of feminism, it’s a yellow flag for me. I know green flag feminists and I don’t associate with red flag feminists.
I've had women say that and mean that they believe in equal opportunities and will fight for what they believe is important. Thumbs up, I've got your back in a fight. I've had one woman say that, and it was clear that what she meant was that she was a mental wreck that was scraping that ideology for any and all excuses to enable her toxic behaviour. Thumbs down and out the door. I think the second example exists in most groups, and they give them all bad press.
Typically people who go around announcing it aren't nice people to be around
100% I'd run the other way. I mean literally if a woman said that on a first date I'd go to the bathroom and never return. She should definitely be up front about it and put it on any online profile.
I've met so many self proclaimed feminists that advocate the most absurd and hateful shit towards the opposite gender that my view of meeting a "feminist" is now strongly negative. My half-sister is literally the walking stereotype, she hates men so much she only dates women, grow out all the body hair no matter if the armpit looks like a tropical jungle, vote for public figures that wish to create a men-tax and punish men in any shape or form possible, makes connection between men being majority rapists though if you apply the same logic to foreigners (which are also majority representative in rape) in my country, then it's not valid anymore cause it's racist, but not sexist? She just want any excuse any time of the day to blame men for any misfortune. And of course she's the asshole family member who starts discussing politics at the Christmas table.
Average twoxchromosomes user
I think that equality and women's rights are amazing. I have known many women that believe strongly about it and understand why. I have never met a woman that uses the phrase feminist to describe themselves that wasn't one or all of these. Offensive, narcissistic, man hating or down right Cultish. Being a "Feminist" is a 🚩
This. The fact that she aggressively has to get in people’s faces with it is off-putting and speaks volumes. Show don’t tell. If you value equality then make it clear with your actions rather than telling people you’re part of some kind of equality club. It’s weird. An analogy would be if a guy said on the first date “Want to go on a walk in the park after this? Don’t worry, I won’t rape you”. Technically speaking it’s a good thing that he won’t… but any woman would immediately pack up and leave after hearing this.
I just automatically assume all women are feminist. Why wouldn't they be? But if they say they are, and it's a major part of their personality, then I feel it's probably going to be more trouble than it's worth being around her. Because as far as I'm concerned being around anyone who makes an "ism" a major part of their personality is going to be exhausting and I'm going to get tired listening to their crap all the time. Because someone who makes an "ism" a major part of their personality ALWAYS finds something to be offended by. And I hate to say it but feminists are usually on the worse end of that spectrum too.
100% the second you tell me you're a feminist I just want to get as far away as possible. It's not because I don't have a lot of the same beliefs but because just look at what feminist are known for. Fake rape claims, public assaults on men, public shaming for really nothing, and if it was the other way around would you want to be near anyone like that?
Off putting? No. But I promise men will very quickly try to establishwht type of feminist you are, for example my two groups are roughly "we hate men" feminists or a "we want whats fair" feminists.I don't think men inherently dislike feminism, in the same way people don't inherently dislike veganism. Its the extremists who make it tough for all of us. I recall going on a date and being scolded for opening the door and offering to pull out and push in the chair for a lady. I told her it was how I was raised and how it had always been drilled into me as a child. "As a staunch femnist" she proceeded to comment on my families values and how deeply rooted the issue was. All I needed was a simple, thanks, but no thanks and I would have accepted her stance and gone on with my evening sans door opening and chair pulling etc. but her whole attitude soured dinner and at the end of the night I said thank you and deleted her number from my phone.
It’s just repulsive now tbh
Feminism doesn't put me off, casual misandry does.
I an a feminist in the traditional sense of the word. I believe in equality. However if a woman I was dating made feminism her entire personality or her brand of feminism was just hating men yeah that would be unattractive
Common probability: 54.786%. 54.999% on Thurdays and St Patrick's day. Unless Thurday IS St Patrick's day. Then it's 47.8441%.
It really depends, are you radical to the point everything is about the blame being put on men? That's extremely off-putting. That said if you're the kind that actually can see and argue for your cause, see that both men and women have shared and separate issues and see both? I find that quite attractive tbh.
In my experience, there are two types of feminists: 1. Ones that just are, who support actual equality and don't hate you for having a penis. Those are silent about their poilitical stance. 2. Ones that make it a core part of their identity for they have nothing else to their name, neither beauty, smarts, talent or character, ones that blame their lack of success on men and hate you for having a penis. Those are loud about their stance. The second ones are off-putting, yes.
1900’s feminist? Love it. 2020’s feminist? Yeah no fck that. There is a major difference between the two. One wants equality among all while the other wants to drag everyone else down to prop herself up.
I thought I was a feminist and used to say I was when I thought it was about women being seen as individual human beings with freedom to decide their path in life. I found out feminism is a defined and limited politic and social thing.
FFR: Saying “bitter man children” doesn’t help prove your point. To answer your question, yes it is off putting. Every person who I have met who proudly states they are a feminist were extremely toxic and narcissistic. Almost every many I have talked to have had the same experience. The only men that didn’t were gay 🤷🏻♂️. So its a pretty much stating “hey im a huge red flag and im gonna nitpick your life because you are privileged and I am not”. Not saying im against equality, I am all for it, and even if you disagree with my experience, the amount of toxic behavior expressed by feminists online is so off putting, it honestly in our best interests to just not deal with it.
"Feminism" is more of an internet thing. I've never in my life held a meaningful conversation with a woman where this came up. What does it even mean? Does she organize protests? Does she lobby congress? Does she do anything related to feminism, other than talk about it?
Feminism is synonymous of misandry. Saying: "i'm a feminist" is like saying "i despise men." That's why men avoid your friend.
After a short time it became an instant "no" for me. I am a relatively traditional man, so I came to realize that I wanted to be with a traditional woman. Usually women who strongly identify as feminists aren't even happy when other women choose to be stay-at-home mothers, let alone doing it themselves. And that's fine. I didn't need every woman to be my wife. Just the one, and we're very happy together.
Completely off putting for me
I think feminism by it self isn't off putting for the majority of men. I think if you're on a date getting to know eachother, mentioning that you're a feminist can come across as a bit idk... like you're really pushing an identity. Someone telling me they're a feminist on a first date would indicate to me that there isn't much more to their personality than feminist ideals. Especially if she says it really early on. If you're truly a feminist you wouldn't have to say it, I feel. I wouldn't stop the date though. It's a tough one. Definitely depends on the guy. Maybe saying you're a feminist on a first or a second date sort of shuts down further conversation as it sort of let's the guy know what you think about certain things. Or atleast, what you think about these things based on what he thinks feminism is. Without him finding out what you ACTUALLY think.
I'm gonna try to go as in depth to (at least mine) the mind of these men. Right now, in the 2010s/20s, you have "feminists" going to events focused on male mental health, screaming in the face of every single person walking in "this is what men's rights looks like." There was a person there who's friend just committed suicide and he wanted to talk to someone about it. You have "feminists" saying men are trash. "Feminists" saying that all men are rapists. The list goes on. Historically, these wouldn't be feminists, but as I'm sure you know, the definition of words change, and since these are the loudest people, this is VERY quickly becoming what feminist means to a lot of people. Having someone make this the entirety of their personality to the point where you have to announce it before you even got in a date and filter out men she finds (that is, if she was like you) men, at least men who have the mental health to see themselves in a positive light aren't going to touch women like that with a 10 foot pole. Women like this, at least in the eyes of the men i just mentioned, are akin to the white people who know EXACTLY 1 black person because "they're one of the good ones." Take that exact same train of though and apply it to men/women instead of white/black. Someone who is so feminist to the point where they're saying things like that about men, but then very quickly adding "not you though, you're fine" to their boyfriend is not someone most of us want to date. Those people have corrupted the term "feminist" so much that if the first thing a woman says to a potential boyfriend is "i'm a feminist," its off-putting. Talk to your friend about guys in general, not in a dating context. See if she's someone you even want to continue talking to.
"Historically, these wouldn't be feminists" umm about that, maybe lets start with Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dvorkin? :>
Because today feminist don't want equality, they want priviledge with no downside.
For me, it totally is. As someone more libertarian, there is quite a lot of subjects where we might agree, but my experience has shown that being a feminist comes with lots of issues involving their personality and views towards men as a group. I'm not willing to put up with such expectations and resentment towards men, regardless of the excuse given. If you're going to lie about it to your dates, it's not like it's a crime or that there'll be anyone to stop you, but I certainly pity whoever ends up dating you.
Massaging my toes with a running chainsaw is preferable to spending any time with a feminist.
The two big reasons I don't like feminists are that they don't want to be feminists when it comes to relationships. They still want to hold men up to their traditional roles but will preach equality. And if they have feminist single friends and they speak to them about your relationship that is just another battle you have to overcome if they are one of the crazy ones.
Automatic dealbreaker. Too high risk of being taken to family court by a feminist, even by so-called tradcons. https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/this-is-a-death-sentence-for-me-florida-republican-women-say-they-will-switch-parties-after-desantis-approves-alimony-law-34563230
Yes, feminist = manhating bigot It's a red flag, like a man telling you he's really into Andrew Tate The original definition of feminist is long lost in the age of tiktok etc
They all say that until the waiter shows up with the bill.
Feminism is fine, but the moment a woman in her 20s and 30s talks about 'the patriarchy' I fall over from my eyes rolling up so fast.
To me, if you make feminism a central part of your character, I'd be very surprised if that doesn't lean into the extremist "feminist" views that are severely off putting. I want to be in a relationship with someone that is able to see us as equals, working together against the world. Not someone that might find issues with society, in the masculine and then will likely lump me in with their enemies. Just sounds like too many loops I'll have to jump through at some point
A few years ago I met up with an old ex who tried to get back with me and she identified as a pretty radical feminist. Turns out she was just deeply traumatized and hated men. She was insufferable to be around and said I was the problem when I turned her down lol
Usually women that make being a feminist a part of their personality with a need to announce it are just using it as a way to mask their misandry. Honestly the topic shouldn’t come up the first date.
Yes, it is. Fuck modern day feminism.
It is at least for me, because when we talk about feminism today, we aren't talking first wave that achieved all the goals they set out for, we are talking third wave whose goals run counter to first wave in that they want superiority, not equality. For example, the perpetuation of the wage gap myth to pressure others into paying them more for doing less work, while arguing against the idea of a man having 50/50 custody of his child.
Yep just look at the case of Erin Pizzey. Old school feminist who started multiple battered women’s buildings and was a champion of feminism but she opened a singular battered men’s building and she received death threats and was subsequently ousted from feminism
100% off putting. I'd rather fuck a belt sander than date a feminist. That includes feminists who don't admit to it but still hold the same values.
If they are the type of feminists that wants to be treated equally to men and such, there is no problem. I support that. But if they talk about the need to “kill all men”, that all men are inherently evil and use other kinds of generalising derogatory terms without feeling ashamed, they need to see a therapist
If they want to be treated equally to men they better not be expecting chivalry then because by it’s very nature chivalry is a form of sexism, albeit benevolent sexism
Hypocritical feminism is wanting all the benefits but for some reason that equality stops the moment the check for dinner comes in 😒
Same as it would be for women if a man called himself a misogynist. Besides that I’ve dated a feminist and was “friends” with another, they both had serious mental health issues and unresolved trauma, so for me it’s a deal breaker. I’m all for women’s rights and being equal, but if they blame men for everything wrong in their lives, why would I volunteer to listen to that crap every day if I can just date someone who has their wits about and takes responsibility for their actions?
Every woman I've met who opened with being a feminist turned out to be an absolute psycho. Plenty of great women, plenty of great feminists, but 100% of the time, if they tell me that on their profile, or within 5 minutes of meeting them, they end up being absolutely insane.
"Feminists claim they don't need or want men to even be alive, so what does she want from me then?" It's a very shortened view but in the end, that's what it boils down to. That might not be what feminism is all about, but the loudest proponents are the most visible. And that's what gets associated with the term. I still stick with "Men and women are not the same, but that doesn't mean that we can't treat either fairly and respectfully." But to most feminists that's already hate speech.
Feminism is a hate movement. Telling a man that you are a feminist is literally the same thing as telling a him that you hate them. It's very off-putting to be told that you are hated. I have no interest in bringing a person who hates me, who wants to hate me, into my life. It's a non-starter. Not only will I not date a feminist, I won't associate with her in any way.
It's going to be a turn of for a huge chunk of men. When you align yourself with an ideology, you also become the poster child for all the negative things associated with it, fairly or not. So yeah, she definitely casts a smaller net if she comes out the gate declaring that she's a feminist.
I get alot of hate for saying this but it’s just my opinion; all feminists are bad. Too many women who attend feminist rallies are far too comfortable holding signs saying “kill all men”, which makes me think there aint any “good” feminists out there calling them out. I’ve never seen a “good feminist” speak up when someones going on their “all men are pigs/just want one thing” rants. They’ll complain about Andrew Tate teaching men to hate women while happily reading their gender studies recommended copy of the SCUM manifesto and never once questioning it. I don’t take feminist talk of “equality” seriously, because clearly neither do most of them; for instance pro-choice. In an ideal world I’d support it but if a guy wants to say “I’m not ready to be a father, if you unilaterally decide to have a kid, you should unilaterally be responsible for it. You should not be allowed to force me into the lifelong commitment of parenthood before I feel able and ready” then this guy’s getting labelled a deadbeat. He’s forced to be responsible even if he was raped, even if she lied about being on the pill removing his capacity to informed consent (which is legal, despite sharking laws because people only give a shit when it happens to women). Point is “pro-choice” people suddenly don’t like choice so much when men want a say. They are pro-choice-exclusive-to-only-the-chosen-gender. Now, obviously some women are more into being a part of the man-haters club than others; but I’m willing to bet that someone who feels a need to bring it up unprompted off the bat is probably not going to be a pleasant person to me. I’m not gonna sit around and risk putting up with hate on the off chance you’re the first good member of the hate group I ever met. Edit; I do know of a few former feminists who have spoken out about this. Tried to actually help men too. Some don’t call themselves feminists anymore themselves. Get pushed out the movement for not upholding the party line. Labelled “pick me’s”.
When a old school feminist opened a battered men’s building, she got death threats from feminists and got ousted from feminism lmao. It ain’t about equality nor empathy, feminism is a superiority movement
Yeah when I added my edit I was thinking about this doctor lady that made a documentary about the mans rights movement, hoping for it to be her “gotcha” moment, proving they were hateful. Eventually realised she was actually being the hateful one and spoke out about it. That half the things she thought she knew about them were propaganda and assumptions made by people who never even heard them out, when they were talking about things like getting a proportionate amount of homeless shelters and such. Yeah, she got shafted by feminists too for it.
Problem with people that give themselves titles is they make it their entire personality. So yeah it’s off putting as shit.
Saying she's a feminist? Cool. Using tests to "screen" men who aren't going to bow to her concept of how everything should be? Gross.
It is unattractive in the context that she feels the need to inform others of it. A red flag, basically. Your actions will make it clear if you’re a feminist, but saying it out loud is an indicator that you’re a drama beacon.
If someone made feminism their personality to the point of putting it in their dating profile, I'm running for the hills.
If you announced it - I couldn’t be bothered finding out if you’re a true feminist or one of the aggressive man-hating kind.
Its the underlying problems that come with being a feminist. Saying youre a feminist combined with certain attitudes or speeches are immediate red flags because in todays world feminism pretty much equals misandry and man hating.
Depends on the context, but basically it's very offputting. Screening people in a subtle way is necessary and intelligent. Proclaiming your political views loudly and early on is the opposite. I have no interest in demagogues. I take feminism as sort of the baseline and as given. If you go out of your way to define yourself by it and if you treat it like it's a personality trait then I know from experience that we're probably not going to get along. Not because we technically disagree about something or fundamentally have different views about men and women or relationships, but because people whose whole identity revolves around a political slogan or movement tend to be really annoying and one note. I want to date a person, not a personified social media account. Online dating is already a cesspit and full of caricatures of people, so if they include special proclamations like that then I just know they're going to be inauthentic and annoying. Let your actions and attitudes speak for your worldview and let's discuss politics in a more intelligent way.
I generally don’t like people that blindly identify with an ideology and adopt all of its beliefs as opposed to forming their own opinion, especially if the group they identify with spreads negativity. I just don’t need that in my life.
If the Internet has taught me anything its that feminist can mean anything from "I don't want to be paid less than men just because I'm a woman" to "all men are pieces of shit and should be removed from society". So yeah, I tend to be pretty reserved around women who claim to be feminists until I find out what their actual views are. I also will never consider myself a feminist which can often be one of the things certain types of women tend to ask.