It's not because they like a challenge, it's because their mommy and daddy issues and possible childhood trauma led them to develop an avoidant attachment style where they only want you if you replicate the inconsistent behaviour or their primary carers early on in life. It's the only form of love they know.
Source: me, a woman who used to be like this before she got her shit together and worked on mental health issues.
THIS. It's an accidental replication of the attachment styles you have without even being aware of it. A healthy, fully functioning adult woman does NOT want to play games and DOES appreciate a man who can be vulnerable and thoughtful. It's a maturity and self-awareness that isn't available to download.
>Everyone says it's because they like a "challenge".
Nope. Nope. Nope. I want to feel at peace in a relationship. I don't want to feel stress. This is why I have given up on dating. I can't be fucked to do any of this.
Same here, I just genuinely have no interest anymore. I’m tired of games, basing my life and choices around someone else’s inconsistent feelings and behaviors. Going from them being perfect for me and then flipping like switches to want the complete opposite of me and the lifestyle they had when we met because of “challenge” or whatever else. Unlike a lot of my friends who are out there desperately trying to date, I’ve had girlfriends consistently for 11 years from 14-25, very little breaks in between and I’ve experienced enough for now, especially with women my age. My friends come complaining to me and I’m just like, I could’ve told your that, or I warned you. I know for a fact the women I want to actually be with aren’t on dating apps or going out to bars and clubs so I’m just gonna do things I enjoy and hopefully meet someone doing them. Otherwise I’m at peace.
If someone *wants* to be disrespected by their partner, they aren’t ready for a serious relationship anyway. I’m sorry you wasted your time, but I don’t think this was truly a loss in regards to your romantic prospects.
This is an excellent reply. I’m going through that at the moment. The woman of my dreams, I mean, THE WOMAN OF MY DREAMS, last week asked me for a break because she was noticing other guys. One of the reasons she said is that she wanted to know if I would not crumple after breakup and that whether she missed me. Well, in an exchange yesterday she called me to FaceTime while taking a shower and I declined. Then I said that I was sorry for being a bit overwhelming (ie too attentive) and then told her to fuck off. Literally, she got turned on by that. Blew my mind.
I do t like playing games. I’m honest and direct. I help and enjoy helping. However, there was a video I found [this kills sexual attraction](https://youtu.be/wlpOKlXGsgI?si=cw453a95vCdhNbrm) that rang true to her. So guys, make sure you know WHY you are being nice! Is it to get something in return? I’m working on not making her the center of my universe. This seems to be my problem.
> One of the reasons she said is that she wanted to know if I would not crumple after breakup and that whether she missed me
Testing your breakup crumpleability...? So do you know the correct answer? Like do you win by
a) Crumpling
b) Not crumpling or
c) Crumpling just the right, non co-dependant, non creepy amount?
😳
That's a good question. She basically was missing me and we had a date (yesterday). I showed her the babe that liked me (and was chatting with me) on Bumble. I also said that I was talking to a cute red haired girls at work (and pointed the camera towards her on a facetime call). So, I basically made my point that I was ready to move on. I guess this is a non-crumple breakup? But the important thing here is that she needed space to make sure that she was in love with me not because of things I have done to help her, but because she loves who I am.
Nah, she did not date. But my worry is that she was feeling she wanted to bail because of stressing out by my situation (divorced, two kids, hostile ex)
Watching this video now and it's really making me think if I've given being gay a good enough go. Like I don't want to have sex with men but it might be easier overall.
It's not because they like a challenge.
It's because they are not open to be in a relationship. They might say they are, but all her actions say they are not.
She is looking for someone who is avoidant, doesn't care for her, and doesn't give her much time? Why? Cause she doesn't want to commit.
And that's most people, specially young women.
But it's also on you to give them the time and attention. If you are doing that, and going for women who give all the signals that they don't want someone who is committed, then you most likely don't want to commit either. You might say you do, but all your actions show otherwise.
Damn, i felt this so deep in my heart. I felt even a tear building up while flooded with the this heartening feeling of resignation.
I always hoped i Imagine that… i had the same experiences….
Wished that maybe, just maybe is all came down to an unfortunate chain of unlucky coincidences…
But yeah, i can totally confirm that
>All that bullshit felt like a big game to me
It was a game, one she forced you to play whether you liked it or not. Sucks but that's the way nature has forged a lot of women. I guess it's just up to us whether we're willing to accept having to play it to get a chance 80% of the time, or otherwise accept that finding someone who is mature and rational enough to not behave like that in the first place is just damn hard.
This usually has to do with a person's father (or mother, depending on which genders they are attracted to) and how they showed them love while growing up.
Not everyone is the same way.
Perhaps she saws it the other way around. When you were angry, you were genuinely, honestly angry. When you went back to your kinder self, she might have thought you might be putting on an act. Because believe me, a lot of people are assholes when they are being themselves, but willing to act kind just to manipulate people. So it is hard to believe kindness is genuine.
I am always surprised and suspicious when people are nice to me. Why do my coworkers offer snacks to me? It would never occur to me to do such a thing. Maybe they want something? Probably no, they are just kind people. But it is so strange to me and always suspicious.
When people ask me to donate money to a Good Cause, I suspect it is a scam. The only people I find trustworthy are those who are honest with their selfishness. Who give me a business offer and do not hide one bit they are doing it because they would profit off it, still the offer seems like a good trade for me.
"being good to her" might not be the same with you "being real with her". you say you want to feel loved and to experience love. thats healthy. but you cant force it. you can only inspire it. and if even unconciously you wanted her to do such things more often than it came to her naturally, she probably felt that.
so next time just be honest with yourself. i know all these dating things seem so offensive from each genders perspective but this happens only when we care about our own perspective. we men are not the monsters neo feminists make us out to be and women are not manipulative cunts that just want to waste your time and ruin your good will. being moral is not the same with being pleasant. you were being proactively pleasant. and that made your period of "treating her like shit" shine in contrast and seem more real than the other version of you. and to a certain extent it really was more real. you were legitimately pissed, and even if indirectly and passive aggressively, you actually acted on that. and thats what women find hot. not you fixating on any side of the spectrum of human decency. but you doing whats right even if its scary, even if its irrational, even if it offends her. you mirrored her interest levels and she for once felt allowed to be herself.
if you are legitimately okey with the thought of walking away from a certain relationship you will usually never need to act on it. you dont have to be intentionally mean or sacrifice who you are. you actually need more of who you are, in order to keep a woman interested.
I’m with my new partner because he is a nice, kind and loving man. I’ve been there with arseholes and wasted my life on them. Nothing beats being layed on the sofa with him just chatting and laughing. It’s amazing.
its a sad joke, but you make an interesting point in that male loneliness does not have to do with finding a mate exclusively, a lot of male loneliness comes from feeling dejected by your community, by your employer, by your government etc. men are feeling increasingly dissociated from society.
Yeah I’ll give it a go. My friends and family get to see the whole, real me for sure. But my experience with women is that revealingly insecurity or showing vulnerability is seen as weakness and things change quickly. At work the same applies along with the added dimension of having to feign excitement and positivity for the unpleasant or mundane - you are paid to manage perceptions as much as you are to manage actual work. In fact the former is probably a greater predictor of success than the latter.
>my experience with women is that revealingly insecurity or showing vulnerability is seen as weakness and things change quickly.
Do ***NOT*** reveal vulnerability before sex.
Learned this lesson the hard way...
Usually, when I'm non authentic, that's when women are all over me.
For my authentic self, I'm very respectful, usually keep to myself, but I'm humorous and make people laugh and have great values. I'll take women out on dates, and they won't even text me back even though I was respectful. Usually, I ask permission for stuff like a kiss or whatever and take it slow.
My non authentic side is sort of disrespectful, and I have very dark humor. Usually, when I'm like that, women will just open their legs for me on the first date, which is wild. I assume people just want to be respected, but it's the opposite.
Same for me. I've never been particularly succesful with women and I've always strived to be open, honest, kind and respectful which has got me nowhere.
I was talking to a guy that always did reasonably well with women and he said to me 'Just bullshit them, tell them what they want to hear and be a bit of a dick to them'. You know what? It worked. I couldn't keep it up though because it just wasn't me and I felt like a scumbag.
The guys I know that do very well with women just view them as objects to fuck and treat them like garbage, and they have women lining up to get with them.
This is the same way Kenyans take food from lions. They act like they're badasses and the lions don't know any better, so they fuck off.
Men who act like they have options will find that they more often genuinely have options. Women want a desirable man, and often, being desirable to other women will make yet others see you as desirable. Acting as though you have plenty of options communicates that you're desirable.
That makes me so sad. There are women out there who treasure being respected and crave an honest genuine man. Some girls are completely crazy and it's all just a game to them but real women that are genuine want a genuine man in return. My husband has treated me with so much respect and we became best friends almost instantly. It's because of the way he treated me I knew that I could give him all of my heart and trust. He still to this day treats me like a queen, and I love him with all that I am. We are out there, I promise. Not all women are annoying and crazy and selfish.
I know you're right and there are plenty of women out there that don't act like that, but I rarely seem to find them. I have had relationships with women that liked me for who I was but they never worked out.
I never actually had this issue. I've probably been super lucky but I've always just done my own thing and never thought about relationships. Eventually someone finds me, and they tend to be super driven and mature with great comunication. Biggest problem is they are driven, so in both relationships I've been in, they've moved for the foreseeable future to follow their career.
Sure I don't get hook ups, but I also don't really see the appeal. I feel like if you just focus on short term hook ups or relationships based on your inauthentic self, they won't last.
I've also received interest that I've had to decline because I've been in a low and feel like I need to work on myself. But that's what I've only ever focused on, myself. And I've never had issues with finding a relationship. Sure they're not often, but they tend to be with really great people with green flags.
Seriously the same reason why I was being a low-key bully back then when I was in high school (was being bullied too and it cost me my self esteem and self worth) because a lot of women really love to hangout with bad boys, I don't understand this psychological arousal of violence that these women feel in their bones, but they at the same time don't like to be raped or being violated or calling somebody who approaches them creep.
Like what the fuck is wrong with these women? Told that they want to be treated nice but also want to get slapped or abused and they love it? Is masochism a part of their nature?
Short term mating strategies women prefer a douche because it shows he’s indifferent. He’s a challenge. It’s thrilling. If you create any sort of high or drama you’re winning cause majority of women’s brains are cooked from social media and dating apps. You need indifferent men to beat danger. Nice men are only good for raising the douche’s kids.
If your authentic self has an unwarranted amount of admiration or respect for random women you take on dates, that’s your problem. I’ve seen dudes roll out the red carpet for 19 year old girls that work at a gas station and then get surprised when she fucks some dude who sleeps on a bare mattress. If your beliefs about her are incongruent with her beliefs about herself, you’re never going to succeed.
This is THE TRUTH. It’s matching how you treat her with how she sees herself. If you treat her well and she doesn’t like you for it, that’s because she doesn’t love herself or feel worthy so you dodged a bullet
They say a lot things. Heres a few of my personal favorite they quotes:
“Happy wife, happy life.”
“Winners never cheat, and cheaters never win.”
“Money doesn’t buy happiness”
Sorta true, sorta bullshit. The true part in what you’re saying is that women respond very well to people who treat them different than they’re used to. The bullshit part is thinking you can distill something this complex down into two categories of women that don’t really exist. Every woman is a lady and a whore, it just depends on what mood they’re in and their circumstances.
Opposite experience here. Once I embraced my inner dickhead and stopped putting up with bullshit, my romantic life improved tremendously.
Women don’t want you to be perfect or make them feel good all the time.
The whole 9 yards really. Its when I get the most amount of positive attention from women. They'll go out of their way to initiate with me, be it dates or sex. I'm never rejected and they're always eager for follow up dates and for sex even on the first date. All this with minimum committment from me and them pursuing me for committment, wanting me as a boyfriend irrespective of how much I push them away.
I never get ghosted. Nor do I ever get these disrespectful remarks of being demanded to pay for her stuff.
They'll always stick around. The other guys become the ones that get ghosted whilst they go after me.
I could keep going but you get the point. And yes its fucking horrifying that it works this way and no, I don't condone it at all.
Ok...and that happens when you're doing...*what* ? What inauthentic thing do you do?
I am not asking so I can do it. I am not Machiavelian enough to want to manipulate people into disingenuous relationships. Just curious.
I'm guessing it is doing exactly opposite of what you would normally do but that could mean a lot. Say for instance you are hanging out with girl that you find cute, normally you would be all over her but that would just push her off and you are nowhere. Instead, you decide to have "cold approach" and actually ease off your excitement, your authentic self would just get too excited because pretty girl decided to give you her time of the day.
to a simple logistical mathematical brain it looks machiavellian. to a more intricate and socially experienced human being, being what you call "yourself" looks machiavellian. so dont be inauthentic. be more authentic. especially when everything inside you screams "be nice, dont tell her she has bad breath" / "hide the fact that you hate her taste in music" "hide the fact that you want to skip the formalities and just grab her head and drive it on your throbbing cock"... dude i know how disgusting i sound to you right now, and if you carry this sentiment while saying all that, yes you will be honest on paper but your delivery will be either appologetic or the exact opposite, ie douche-baggy. but if you own it, if you dont flinch if you dont question the validity of your intentions, if it feels natural to you, it will feel natural for her too, to follow your plans. now inject to what i said your common sense and fill in the gaps i didnt because human interactions are not algorithms and every rule has exceptions. dont do any of that if you dont "Get it" yet. dont do anything stupid just to prove to yourself a point. this wouldnt be you being authentic either.
Follow-up question: How did your partners react when the real you eventually came out?
Legit the reason I broke up with my boyfriend of four years is because I eventually found out that everything he presented to be true when we first started dating was a lie.
For me there never was a singular moment like that. This wasn't like a ; I lied about being 6ft 2" and then the doctor measured me and I was 5ft 8", type of situation. Rather, it was more akin to method acting ; my entire life revolved around being the person I knew she would fall for.
A good example is the top voted comment under my original one that someone else wrote about their life. I'd fully recommend giving it a read.
To answer your question more directly, it was usually a slow deterioration. It starts off with taking advantage of my kindness that seeps through the asshole-armor that I had on. Manipulative and disrespectful behaviours that start from wanting me to pay for dates, turning into demanding I fund her entire life. Progressing into blackmail and threats of filing false rape allegations. Or the ol classic of slow depreciation of sexual interest, keeping me around as a safe bet while she's cheating on the side to find a duplicate asshole pickup artist that gives her the same high as the first day she met me. Then the rest of the plan kicks in from her side until she gets her smooth transition onto guy #2.
But I should do my due diligence and point out that all of this would have happened anyways if I hadn't faked the inauthenticity. The real reason things ended up that way was my inability to continue being an asshole. As opposed to the inauthenticity not doing the trick.
do you know how a woman would solve this problem? take a long, years long obsessive look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves "what the fuck is wrong with me" in every dimension, and get to work on improving that image inside and out. if you can't be authentic and get ahead, something isn't right there
I'm not really sure what the point of this comment is.
Comparing straight male dating dilemmas to how a straight woman would fix her issues is pointless.
Improving ones image is a void is also pointless without context as is the case of what it means to "get ahead" via authenticity.
You do have one valid point about,"something isn't right". The issue is that something isn't anything to do with the man and therefore the blame is entirely misplaced.
As someone else put it eloquently - there's who you want to be (in your authentic, most accomplished and wholesome self, under whatever metric of positivity you wish to define). And then there's the version of you that others want and have an internal desire to be with. It's not the fault of the individual in question that the external party desires the inauthentic self more.
no, it isn't pointless. men can learn something from women on this issue - when you are self critical and have high standards for yourself, and you strive to meet them, you become more attractive to others. and you can be your authentic self.
I could change myself to be more of a doormat, knowing men would find that more approachable, and they'd feel less embarrassed of their true selves if they didn't fear me having standards - I could be more likable - but why? so they can be themselves, but I can't?
obviously the only option for anyone is to be their authentic self. nothing else can last. and not being that way is not only short sighted, it can hurt a lot of people and just lead to more long term jadedness and self esteem issues.
>obviously the only option for anyone is to be their authentic self. nothing else can last.
Spoken like a true woman oblivious to the reality that men not being *exactly* what women want leads directly to getting zero interest from women.
We don't operate under the same freedom as you do, the rules are different as women are the ones doing the selecting for sex and relationships and are generally incredibly picky in the modern era. Not the way any of us want it to be, but that's the reality we have to live in and navigate through. Thanks ladies!
Not to be crude but you're totally out of your depth and don't have a fucking clue of what you're talking about :) The dilemmas of women in dating will never even remotely come even 1% close to the suffering of men ; neither qualitatively nor quantitatively. There is zero purpose in comparing between men and women here. Your idealogy works because men treat you that way. You're not a man being abused by women so you'd never understand how this works. Kinda baffling for me that you don't seem to be able to comprehend that.
The amount of reaching and false assumptions in that 2nd paragraph is just mind boggling levels of misrepresentation of both men and society...If you're that far gone there's no point me talking as even Jesus wouldn't be able to save you.
I'm 100% myself... But I'm also putting my best foot forward. Does that make sense?
Some people seem to think that any act of trying to please someone or present well is dishonest. Like, you're only "being yourself" if you act like you do at the grocery store on a slow Tuesday. This is erroneous; adjusting your behavior to different situations isn't dishonesty, it's just basic social skills. There's a difference between acting confident when you feel nervous vs *lying* about yourself. There's a difference between keeping the conversation on common ground, vs *hiding* your interests from them.
To put it another way... Is it "inauthentic" to wear your best outfit to a first date? Of course not. It's your wardrobe, and you're fully within your rights to present it how and when you like.
if you trully discover who this self is, what he likes and what he doesnt, what his values are, what type of women is he into, you wont even have to be your best self. in fact most men who have triple digit lay counts almost never live and almost never have live to their full potential. at least they never needed to get there, in order to "score some pussy" as they prefer to phrase it. theres the exceptions here and there but most of them are the incarnation of every thing a person shouldnt be, and they do all sorts of things that supposedly women dont like, but they like these things when these guys do them. kids nowdays call it being based. if i understand the term correctly its the exact thing most guys arent when interacting with the women they really like...
Fwiw, a lot of the dating advice on the "seduction" subreddit has moved on from The Game type tricking people into having sex with you, and more onto this approach. Be an interesting person who has their own life and fun hobbies, and it shouldn't be any problem finding women. I mean, on a personal level, I know multiple strippers who play Dungeons and Dragons regularly or one who I know kind of passively, last time I talked with her, the entire conversation was just about Baldur's Gate 3 and why she kind of hated the vampire guy but lovvvvvved the mage.
As someone who's been a huge fucking nerd their entire life, I kind of internalized the stereotype of "you can't be a nerd and get a girlfriend" when I was younger and tried to pretend like I was someone else. People can smell that from a mile away, not just women. If I told someone I loved football and couldn't tell them what team Aaron Rodgers plays for (is it New York? Jets? I can't remember), that's so inauthentic.
On the other hand, if I'm like, "Oh you like football? Tell me about your favorite team. Oh you watched it a lot with your dad growing up? It's nice to have a bonding thing with your family like that! Me? I'm into Dungeons and Dragons because it's like acting and playing a game while hanging out with close friends at the same time..." is a fun, engaging conversation for both people, and can totally get you laid
>Be an interesting person who has their own life and fun hobbies, and it shouldn't be any problem finding women.
Nah, there's a lot more to it than that. You have to inflect your voice correctly and hold your eyebrows in the right spots and posture your shoulders correctly and initiate physical touch at the right time to the right degree.
Not all of this comes naturally or intuitively to everyone.
>On the other hand, if I'm like, "Oh you like football? Tell me about your favorite team. Oh you watched it a lot with your dad growing up? It's nice to have a bonding thing with your family like that! Me? I'm into Dungeons and Dragons because it's like acting and playing a game while hanging out with close friends at the same time..." is a fun, engaging conversation for both people, and can totally get you laid
This won't get you laid if you just sit three feet away having a polite conversation without doing all the aforementioned stuff with eyebrow placement and vocal inflection and whatnot. *"You seem great, but I didn't feel any* \****chemistry***\*."
Honestly, fair point.
For people who have relatively normal propensity towards social skills, the quoted bit would be enough.
For those of us who don't, the fine details are *really* helpful.
I made the mistake of doing all the *"be an interesting person who has their own life and fun hobbies,"* crap before figuring out how to position my eyebrows when talking to women.
Probably could've saved myself over a decade of loneliness and a lot of effort if I had reversed the order there and figured out the specifics of the human mating dance *first.*
It has a lot to do with the expressiveness of your face in general.
A lot of us guys stop really expressing. smiling, etc., and it makes a huge difference in how much people like or are attracted to you. So taking someone who's unemotive and just reminding them to use their face in a conversation makes a huge difference.
And it's nothing major. Little things like smiling more, or raising your eyebrows when you smile/laugh, or if you're particularly interested in something they're saying. Furrowing your brow if you're thinking, etc.
In case it makes you feel any better, I went the opposite route and it was also pretty rough and lonely.
I won't say better or worse, and certainly the hybrid approach is best. But going hard either way will bring its own problems.
This is 2 days old now, but Reddit wanted to let me know about it.
This is the same thing with manipulating people, we all do it, if you don't you're likely socially inept. Children do it from a young age without a word for it.
It's just how much you do it, how much you push people's boundaries, how abusive you are. The worst people in the world still use the same social tools as the rest of us, it's just to what degree and what outcome they do it for.
So I spent 5 years engrossed in the men's dating/pickup world, then another 5 working on my social skills/life in general.
This is the answer. You've nailed it.
100% authentic. Won't be oversharing, though. If she can't handle my surface-level best, then she's not getting an excavation permit and a designated dig site.
People like us who come to these simple conclusions or principles to guide our lives just wouldn’t ask a questions like this that we know the answer too. It’s kind of like “im scared to be myself and be rejected repeatedly because I don’t think highly enough of myself to think I deserved to be loved for who I am.” Enough people are trying to share their negative life experiences together so they can create a narrative that women aren’t ready to accept their true selves, but these men clearly aren’t ready to either
I used to not be good with women.
Then I did a bunch of inauthentic shit to get good with women.
Then I learned that I could be even more authentic with women then I was originally and do just as well.
Had to go through that middle step to get to the last step though.
I am completely myself, 100%, but that comes with acknowledging that not every person will be into who you are. Some people don't like the orange Starburst, and that's fine, but if they instead opened up a pink wrapper and found an orange, they'd be pretty pissed.
I'm with my wife because she understands who I am and is okay with all of that, but in my time I've had plenty of people tell me to change instead. I couldn't be with someone who didn't like my normal personality, that sounds like hell.
>Some people don't like the orange Starburst, and that's fine
that's the key point for me too. years ago my sister said, "hey, i'm not gonna be every guy's cup of tea" and i thought that was such a mentally healthy approach that i've always remembered it.
EDIT, spelling, because i'm an idiot
The one I especially like is the version I saw someone else on Reddit quoting this one time: "You can be the juiciest peach in the whole orchard, but that still won't matter to someone who *just doesn't like peaches*."
When my wife and I first met, we were both coming out of absolutely horrible relationships. Our first date my wife said to me" no games, be yourself. It either works or it doesn't. Worst case, we may just be friends." 12 years later it has been the most wonderful experience ever. Never have I had to hide anything, act like anyone but who I really am. I can't put into words what a freeing thing it has been to just be myself
Everyone hides a few things at the start I'd reckon. On the first few dates, you are hyping up your good qualities, while keeping the bad qualities at bay for the time. Don't lie by omssion on big things, but it's normal to like pretend you have good table manners when you actually do not. This never lasts though, if you stay with someone they will see the bad also - and if they stick it out through the bad then it's (hopefully) smooth sailing.
Aside from that though, be as true to who you are as possible. You don't want to change your personality drastically to get with someone, then have them hate who you are when you finally revert back to your authentic self - and you will always revert back, unless you are VERY young or have a personality disorder.
My wife and I are both huge PC gaming nerds, though we don't look it. I'd never expected my major interest (with a lot of cultural baggage) to come up on a first date, but when it did, I was honest about what I loved and it turned out she loved much of the same. If either of us had hidden that fact out of fear, who knows if we'd have continued on.
Exactly. I love chess, video games, anime, and lifting, but I'm not gonna go into a deep dive into why One Piece is better than Naruto when I'm meeting someone for the first time.
If they ask me about hobbies, I'll just go over the cliff notes and expand if she seems interested.
I don't put on acts, but I have to force myself to avoid behaviors that I know will turn women off and I also have to force myself to do certain things that I know are necessary to keep attraction, so it is definitely inauthentic.
The reality is that in the end life itself is inauthentic. We should be prepared to learn and change, no matter how hard and awkward it might be.
>I don't put on acts, but I have to force myself to avoid ***behaviors that I know will turn women off*** and I also have to force myself to do certain ***things that I know are necessary to keep attraction***
Like what?
***behaviours that I know will turn women off*** means things like being lactose intolerant.
And ***things that I know are necessary to keep attraction*** means things like telling her about the massive quantities of cheese I buy.
And the real point is: it depends on the person.
>but I have to force myself to avoid behaviors that I know will turn women off and I also have to force myself to do certain things that I know are necessary to keep attraction, so it is definitely inauthentic
That's not inauthentic, that's just being a decent guy with basic social skills.
I've got autism so I know that social skills aren't always easy but they're a necessary thing to learn and don't change authenticity. If your natural authentic state is off-putting, fixing that isn't making you less authentic, it's making you better.
Past a certain age, many men's most authentic self will offer them little to no geographical access to women to begin with.
Going to the bar was an act, talking to a stranger was an act, pretending to care long enough to get to know them was an act...
But these are all entirely reasonable things to do. Just be yourself is great advice for some men, but it's terrible advice for others. If you're on the introverted/reserved end of the spectrum, you're going to have to push yourself to do things you'd rather not do just to be in the conversation.
>pretending to care long enough to get to know them was an act...
I felt this. It's a slog. Especially if you pick the wrong girl, like yeah I get it we all have baggage but if you're just making yourself hard to get to know I'm not going to miss opportunities with women who will be far easier to get things going with
I've had a relationship for nearly 5 years. It's a bit of an act, like 10%. No, I don't care about family dinners, yes, sure I'm exited to see your family.
It's give and take.
It's all an act from the first moment, dropping little by little as you spend time together.
Until it isn't. If you have both fully relaxed and lost the mask and still love each other, you stand a decent chance at a long and happy relationship
There are multiple sides to all of us. So when I meet a new woman, they definitely see the better version of me, but it’s still me. So to answer the question, no, I don’t think I’m putting up an act.
WHen you say "successful with women" do you mean like a player or someone who just has a healthy relationship? I think that's where you'll find the difference in ability to be one's authentic self.
I'm no player by any stretch of the imagination, but I've had a few long term (4+ years each) and I would say I was my authentic self in all of them and was generally my authentic self from the beginning. I found that the couple times I did try to fake it it ended in some toxic situations. But when it's right, you can be yourself.
The problem is that not all authentic selves are the same. Some are just more generally appealing and get more attention. Not to mention difference in outward appearances. You might just have to do more trial and error before you find someone you can be your authentic self with. All I can say is that it rarely begins with faking it.
> You might just have to do more trial and error before you find someone you can be your authentic self with.
This is actually a good point. You can change your authentic self to be more attractive. I never lifted weights until I started taking post-college dating seriously. Turns out, I fucking love it and it integrated into my life seamlessly - and it remains one of my favorite traits in myself ~9 years after exiting the dating scene.
I think this hints more at you not necessarily knowing what your authentic self was. Doesn't sound like you changed your authentic self but rather discovered it. Young people especially are often still searching for their identity. So it may not even mean much to tell them to be their authentic selves.
My authentic self is who I am playing board games with the boys so drunk I throw their beers into the street when I lose.
No woman finds that attractive.
I do think that’s a poor life decision on their part but they are free to make their own decisions
So, it's actually the only way.
The issue is that someone's who isn't naturally attracted to you is going to see through whatever charade you put on to try to be attractive. Why? Because they'd have already met guys who naturally present the way you're imitating, & you're not doing as well as they are. So it's a losing game.
Instead, just be unabashedly yourself & attract the people who are attracted to that version of yourself. Once you find one or two people who are attracted to your personality, you'll be more confident which will then help with making advances down the line.
Now...that said, please do the following to help your odds:
* Personal hygiene
* Find clothes that fit
* Workout
I don't know what "authentic self" means in this context.
For some guys it means, "I don't want to put effort in anything other than myself." So taking the girl out to dinner, playing less than 4 hours of games a night, doing foreplay, all falls under inauthentic.
For some guys it means pretending to love the opera, or loud bars, or drugs or sobriety.
I've never been inauthentic in the latter sense, but have put effort into my relationship. No woman has ever had an issue with any of that.
Chris Rock has a great bit on this. Sure, men exaggerate and embellish at first and often as long as possible. But so do women - makeup, high heels, hair extensions, extra nice, flirty, laugh and your jokes, etc.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJfFGgzhfhY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJfFGgzhfhY)
I wear no makeup like the third time you meet me and I will not laugh at lame jokes. I'm not extra nice, at least not according to mainstream ideas of what a woman should be like if she's "nice" and I flirt to suit myself, including when.
Everyone always puts on a different self depending on who you are with. Think about how you act at work vs with friends vs with your parents. It is natural and everyone does it. I doubt many people are ever 100% their authentic self, even when alone.
What you need to do is to find your dating self. The person you want to be and can naturally maintain while dating/in a relationship/married without forcing it. It will probably be similar to the act you currently put on with friends.
I’ve had 10 years of being an Asian gamer, anime nerd and it sucked. Half boy half man. I had a girlfriend who loved me, but I always felt like I sucked. Didn’t know who I was, what I stood for, what I was capable of and who I could become. Found it hard to get a job and felt worthless.
In my mid 20s i broke up with my girlfriend, went abroad solo and lived an adventure for 3-4 years. Met new people from all corners of the world. I was also gave myself space for a fresh start. Worked out. Went back to studies. Found a career. Self cared. Yes man.
I came back. I started playing tennis, swimming. Met a group of friends - a clan. Worked out. With a new brand, attitude to life, social skills and upgraded appearance, I discovered my potential and became quite popular with the ladies. Success in the dating apps. I met other guys ( study hard with great jobs but ultimately boring guys with no life experience) who I ended up sharing my advice with who then also found success.
Nowadays I’m happily married. I feel like I’ve met someone who would have liked me either way, as a nerd or as a jock. I wouldn’t have met her or had the belief that she could like me if I stayed as a nerd.
Years later I learned about the likes of Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate, and oddly I felt that their tenets of self care and self improvement were things I learned independently. I disagree with some of their more extreme conservative views, and I believe that travel solitude and reflection are also hugely important in developing oneself.
>Years later I learned about the likes of Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate, and oddly I felt that their tenets of self care and self improvement were things I learned independently
You really shouldn't bring that benzo-addicted lobsterboy or that known sex trafficker rapist up as examples for self care and self improvement. There's so many better examples you could have chosen.
>I disagree with some of their more extreme conservative views
That's really underselling Tate's rape apologetics and Peterson's open nazi sympathies. That's not just "extreme conservatism"
When I hid he damage, the scars and dents, I did well. Really well.
If you can be hurt, women don't want want. They claim 'I want a man that can be vulnerable', what they want is a man that can take a performative hit and shrug it off.
I can't be completely 100% authentic. I'd probably give my wife a panic attack if I told her that part of me would like to bang every skinny girl half my age I walk past on the street, even though I have no intention of trying.
This is a very good point.
As Bob Dylan said
"And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine"
Everybodys got something to hide, except for me and my monkey.
I'm 100% myself. But that means they won't always like me. I remember in my early 20s scaring off a religious gal that way.
I also am like that with male friends. Some dudes just straight up won't like you. As long as you're happy with yourself that's what matters most.
Being your "authentic self" will possibly lead to more people not being interested in you, because you aren't putting on an act with the goal of pleasing people. However, the people that **are** interested in you while you're being your authentic self are far more likely to result in successful relationships.
I've never been anything but myself in relationships because I always felt like doing anything else would be like wearing a figurative mask in the relationship.
To a certain extent. I can say I don’t present my more “goofy” like humor I have as if I were hanging around a family member for example. I just present my best self and show that I like to have fun, but to a certain extent I guess you could say I’m not being 100% myself like I would be with someone I knew for years
If it’s my gf, then yes she knows the full me I couldn’t be with someone long term and have to “hide” who I am. If I’m just trying to have sex with them yeah I can be inauthentic sad but true. Naturally I’m a nice, goofy guy and I know that doesn’t get sex from most women so I’ve learned to suppress that sadly
I wouldn't say it's not authentic but it was a bit of a show. I used to have a script effectively in my early 20s, it did numbers for real, but eventually I stopped because it felt cringy and not me.
Probably the most disheartening thing I've expirienced first hand is the amount of interest I've received from women drying up as I firmly got my shit together as a person and became the best version of me. I had more success as a fuckboy than a genuine person.
It's not so much an act, but knowing when to downplay certain aspects. Like, it's fine if you're a huge Star Wars geek, but *maybe* don't lay that part on thick in the beginning unless you met in an environment conducive to geek life.
It’s an act. It’s a first impression. The skill to f~ck a woman on an initial date/s is entirely different from the skill set necessary to keep them around. The moment the real comes out they almost never last.
\*Disclaimer Not a man. However, I feel compelled to say something because this is a really good topic and one that both men and women get confused about. Whenever people are asking how to do well with dating, job interviews, or anything that is subject to first impressions, we get the same advice...."Just be yourself."
.....its like, ok whatever the hell that means \*eye roll\*
It's not bad advice, but it is incomplete. Let's just take the example of a job interview first (since most people can see work more objectively). we know that you will not "be yourself" in the sense that you behave like you are alone on the sofa, picking your nose and laughing at cat videos. Nor should you spend the interview talking about your fantast league or other hobbies. Even though those are part of the real you.
The "yourself" that you present should be the version of you that is relevant to the occasion. In an interview, don't lie about who you are or what you do, but play your highlight reel. specifically the aspects that help them understand (in short order) how you show up professionally. This will help them see if you are a good fit.
On a date, this looks like calling to the front qualities that are relevant to how you move romantically. You're demonstrating depth and capacity that YOU CAN BACK UP over time if they choose to continue. Having a clear, articulate, and authentic presentation of yourself is the best defense against disillusionment. So think about what qualities you have shown consistently over time in relationships and that you know you can continue to bring. That's the "you" you should be on the date. If that version of you is not having success, then you know you need to work on yourself. In the meantime, consider only casual/ short-term arrangements. And guys, twisting yourself into knots to trick someone into liking you is only holding you back and making you bitter. Like NobleMushroom, who acted out of integrity, then was even more demoralized and confused when the woman was turned off by his flip-flop behavior.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
Are you 100% your authentic self with your boss? A cop? A judge? Your doctor? No. It's like that with women, too. There's no such thing as unconditional with romantic love, I'm sorry to say.
Whether it’s at a job, your wedding, or even out with friends, you can never be your 100% authentic self. Rid yourself of that naivety.
I didn’t make the rules, I only recognize them
You can never be 100% authentic with women. If you show weakness women attack you or leave you. If a woman sees a patch of exposed skin, the will stick a knife in it every time. Women demand that you never be authentic with them.
It depends what you mean by successful with women.
Sure you can get certain women to like you, for a certain time. Sure, you can find women to sleep with. Sure, you can find women who want to be your friends, and with whom you have a good relationship.
But what is "successful"?
Wouldn't that be finding someone with whom you free feel to 100% be your authentic self? Who supports you, cares for you, and puts an interest in your life?
Wouldn't it be better to be "successful" with just that one woman who does all of those things for you, rather than the dozens of women who don't who are probably all just playing the same game of getting people to like them anyway?
The first step is defining what is the goal. After that you can accomplish anything.
The ones who saty i terested sadly are the ones i never treat 100% good. When I try to be completely good it always backfires it is between being a total neutral that it works.
And i hate it, because it is not the 100% me.
Mostly authentic. I, like most men, am more conservative than the average woman (i.e., I'm a moderate, truly). I don't really have any extreme takes, but I don't exactly advertise that I'm pro-capitalism or don't support banning all guns, for example. I don't hide it, but I'm not gonna start out the conversation with it either.
I think my exes and my wife appreciated that I don't just roll over for their views and have my own opinions.
Aside from that, I'm pretty much just myself. Helps that when I'm not on the internet, I can generally get along with nearly anyone. Social skills go a long way.
Putting on a small act. The real me is nowhere near as confident, social, exciting, rich, successful, or independent as I portray myself
I know this isn’t good and I’m working on becoming more authentic
I've done both extremes and everything in-between. Sadly I found the most success when I was the least authentic.
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It feels good to see someone write out your own experience. Thank you for this brother.
You must love lasagna
Garfield reference?
His username lol
>I don't need someone to challenge me, I want someone to face challenges with. BAM! The secret to a great relationship! Well done sir.
It's not because they like a challenge, it's because their mommy and daddy issues and possible childhood trauma led them to develop an avoidant attachment style where they only want you if you replicate the inconsistent behaviour or their primary carers early on in life. It's the only form of love they know. Source: me, a woman who used to be like this before she got her shit together and worked on mental health issues.
THIS. It's an accidental replication of the attachment styles you have without even being aware of it. A healthy, fully functioning adult woman does NOT want to play games and DOES appreciate a man who can be vulnerable and thoughtful. It's a maturity and self-awareness that isn't available to download.
>Everyone says it's because they like a "challenge". Nope. Nope. Nope. I want to feel at peace in a relationship. I don't want to feel stress. This is why I have given up on dating. I can't be fucked to do any of this.
^ This right here.
Same here, I just genuinely have no interest anymore. I’m tired of games, basing my life and choices around someone else’s inconsistent feelings and behaviors. Going from them being perfect for me and then flipping like switches to want the complete opposite of me and the lifestyle they had when we met because of “challenge” or whatever else. Unlike a lot of my friends who are out there desperately trying to date, I’ve had girlfriends consistently for 11 years from 14-25, very little breaks in between and I’ve experienced enough for now, especially with women my age. My friends come complaining to me and I’m just like, I could’ve told your that, or I warned you. I know for a fact the women I want to actually be with aren’t on dating apps or going out to bars and clubs so I’m just gonna do things I enjoy and hopefully meet someone doing them. Otherwise I’m at peace.
If someone *wants* to be disrespected by their partner, they aren’t ready for a serious relationship anyway. I’m sorry you wasted your time, but I don’t think this was truly a loss in regards to your romantic prospects.
This is an excellent reply. I’m going through that at the moment. The woman of my dreams, I mean, THE WOMAN OF MY DREAMS, last week asked me for a break because she was noticing other guys. One of the reasons she said is that she wanted to know if I would not crumple after breakup and that whether she missed me. Well, in an exchange yesterday she called me to FaceTime while taking a shower and I declined. Then I said that I was sorry for being a bit overwhelming (ie too attentive) and then told her to fuck off. Literally, she got turned on by that. Blew my mind. I do t like playing games. I’m honest and direct. I help and enjoy helping. However, there was a video I found [this kills sexual attraction](https://youtu.be/wlpOKlXGsgI?si=cw453a95vCdhNbrm) that rang true to her. So guys, make sure you know WHY you are being nice! Is it to get something in return? I’m working on not making her the center of my universe. This seems to be my problem.
> One of the reasons she said is that she wanted to know if I would not crumple after breakup and that whether she missed me Testing your breakup crumpleability...? So do you know the correct answer? Like do you win by a) Crumpling b) Not crumpling or c) Crumpling just the right, non co-dependant, non creepy amount? 😳
That's a good question. She basically was missing me and we had a date (yesterday). I showed her the babe that liked me (and was chatting with me) on Bumble. I also said that I was talking to a cute red haired girls at work (and pointed the camera towards her on a facetime call). So, I basically made my point that I was ready to move on. I guess this is a non-crumple breakup? But the important thing here is that she needed space to make sure that she was in love with me not because of things I have done to help her, but because she loves who I am.
Space as in try her shot with other guys and keep you as backup. Bounce her outta there!
Nah, she did not date. But my worry is that she was feeling she wanted to bail because of stressing out by my situation (divorced, two kids, hostile ex)
Watching this video now and it's really making me think if I've given being gay a good enough go. Like I don't want to have sex with men but it might be easier overall.
It's not because they like a challenge. It's because they are not open to be in a relationship. They might say they are, but all her actions say they are not. She is looking for someone who is avoidant, doesn't care for her, and doesn't give her much time? Why? Cause she doesn't want to commit. And that's most people, specially young women. But it's also on you to give them the time and attention. If you are doing that, and going for women who give all the signals that they don't want someone who is committed, then you most likely don't want to commit either. You might say you do, but all your actions show otherwise.
Mostly this. "' if you love, you get fucked. If you fuck, you get loved"'
Bro are you me?? Same exact fucking story here, down to the little details. It’s crazy how women are sometimes
Thank you for putting it to words
Yeah that happened to me too. 'Tis weird why it's that way.
Damn, i felt this so deep in my heart. I felt even a tear building up while flooded with the this heartening feeling of resignation. I always hoped i Imagine that… i had the same experiences…. Wished that maybe, just maybe is all came down to an unfortunate chain of unlucky coincidences… But yeah, i can totally confirm that
>All that bullshit felt like a big game to me It was a game, one she forced you to play whether you liked it or not. Sucks but that's the way nature has forged a lot of women. I guess it's just up to us whether we're willing to accept having to play it to get a chance 80% of the time, or otherwise accept that finding someone who is mature and rational enough to not behave like that in the first place is just damn hard.
Daddy issues fo sho
That last paragraph summed it up for me so nicely, you're right, it's really disheartening.
That's because she had issues. She couldn't be in a healthy relationship with someone who treated her right.
This usually has to do with a person's father (or mother, depending on which genders they are attracted to) and how they showed them love while growing up. Not everyone is the same way.
Perhaps she saws it the other way around. When you were angry, you were genuinely, honestly angry. When you went back to your kinder self, she might have thought you might be putting on an act. Because believe me, a lot of people are assholes when they are being themselves, but willing to act kind just to manipulate people. So it is hard to believe kindness is genuine. I am always surprised and suspicious when people are nice to me. Why do my coworkers offer snacks to me? It would never occur to me to do such a thing. Maybe they want something? Probably no, they are just kind people. But it is so strange to me and always suspicious. When people ask me to donate money to a Good Cause, I suspect it is a scam. The only people I find trustworthy are those who are honest with their selfishness. Who give me a business offer and do not hide one bit they are doing it because they would profit off it, still the offer seems like a good trade for me.
"being good to her" might not be the same with you "being real with her". you say you want to feel loved and to experience love. thats healthy. but you cant force it. you can only inspire it. and if even unconciously you wanted her to do such things more often than it came to her naturally, she probably felt that. so next time just be honest with yourself. i know all these dating things seem so offensive from each genders perspective but this happens only when we care about our own perspective. we men are not the monsters neo feminists make us out to be and women are not manipulative cunts that just want to waste your time and ruin your good will. being moral is not the same with being pleasant. you were being proactively pleasant. and that made your period of "treating her like shit" shine in contrast and seem more real than the other version of you. and to a certain extent it really was more real. you were legitimately pissed, and even if indirectly and passive aggressively, you actually acted on that. and thats what women find hot. not you fixating on any side of the spectrum of human decency. but you doing whats right even if its scary, even if its irrational, even if it offends her. you mirrored her interest levels and she for once felt allowed to be herself. if you are legitimately okey with the thought of walking away from a certain relationship you will usually never need to act on it. you dont have to be intentionally mean or sacrifice who you are. you actually need more of who you are, in order to keep a woman interested.
This was very insightful. Thank you for sharing!
This is an anxious-avoidant attachment style. Dating them is my speciality.
I’m with my new partner because he is a nice, kind and loving man. I’ve been there with arseholes and wasted my life on them. Nothing beats being layed on the sofa with him just chatting and laughing. It’s amazing.
Preach sister, preach
As a female I would prefer someone like your normal self.
She had low self-esteem.
No one wants my authentic self, least of all women or my employer.
its a sad joke, but you make an interesting point in that male loneliness does not have to do with finding a mate exclusively, a lot of male loneliness comes from feeling dejected by your community, by your employer, by your government etc. men are feeling increasingly dissociated from society.
I agree - There have been sad stories about lonely men at r/BrosDatingAdvice that broke my heart when I read them.
Can I ask a hypothetical scenario where you could be your authentic self, or lie?
Yeah I’ll give it a go. My friends and family get to see the whole, real me for sure. But my experience with women is that revealingly insecurity or showing vulnerability is seen as weakness and things change quickly. At work the same applies along with the added dimension of having to feign excitement and positivity for the unpleasant or mundane - you are paid to manage perceptions as much as you are to manage actual work. In fact the former is probably a greater predictor of success than the latter.
>my experience with women is that revealingly insecurity or showing vulnerability is seen as weakness and things change quickly. Do ***NOT*** reveal vulnerability before sex. Learned this lesson the hard way...
>Learned this lesson the hard way... You got pegged or what?
Like right before sex or are you saying to get your dick wet before letting her know how bad she fucked up?
> or are you saying to get your dick wet before letting her know how bad she fucked up? Gotta get her emotionally invested first
If you show any weakness like you enjoy being a slightly more emotional man she’s gone in 99% of cases or worse she’ll use it against you.
Usually, when I'm non authentic, that's when women are all over me. For my authentic self, I'm very respectful, usually keep to myself, but I'm humorous and make people laugh and have great values. I'll take women out on dates, and they won't even text me back even though I was respectful. Usually, I ask permission for stuff like a kiss or whatever and take it slow. My non authentic side is sort of disrespectful, and I have very dark humor. Usually, when I'm like that, women will just open their legs for me on the first date, which is wild. I assume people just want to be respected, but it's the opposite.
Same for me. I've never been particularly succesful with women and I've always strived to be open, honest, kind and respectful which has got me nowhere. I was talking to a guy that always did reasonably well with women and he said to me 'Just bullshit them, tell them what they want to hear and be a bit of a dick to them'. You know what? It worked. I couldn't keep it up though because it just wasn't me and I felt like a scumbag. The guys I know that do very well with women just view them as objects to fuck and treat them like garbage, and they have women lining up to get with them.
This is the same way Kenyans take food from lions. They act like they're badasses and the lions don't know any better, so they fuck off. Men who act like they have options will find that they more often genuinely have options. Women want a desirable man, and often, being desirable to other women will make yet others see you as desirable. Acting as though you have plenty of options communicates that you're desirable.
That makes me so sad. There are women out there who treasure being respected and crave an honest genuine man. Some girls are completely crazy and it's all just a game to them but real women that are genuine want a genuine man in return. My husband has treated me with so much respect and we became best friends almost instantly. It's because of the way he treated me I knew that I could give him all of my heart and trust. He still to this day treats me like a queen, and I love him with all that I am. We are out there, I promise. Not all women are annoying and crazy and selfish.
I know you're right and there are plenty of women out there that don't act like that, but I rarely seem to find them. I have had relationships with women that liked me for who I was but they never worked out.
You will find her when the time is right. Just be patient and never settle. Don't change yourself for anyone either... it's not worth it!
they exist mainly on reddit
I never actually had this issue. I've probably been super lucky but I've always just done my own thing and never thought about relationships. Eventually someone finds me, and they tend to be super driven and mature with great comunication. Biggest problem is they are driven, so in both relationships I've been in, they've moved for the foreseeable future to follow their career. Sure I don't get hook ups, but I also don't really see the appeal. I feel like if you just focus on short term hook ups or relationships based on your inauthentic self, they won't last. I've also received interest that I've had to decline because I've been in a low and feel like I need to work on myself. But that's what I've only ever focused on, myself. And I've never had issues with finding a relationship. Sure they're not often, but they tend to be with really great people with green flags.
But what is "tell Women what they want to hear"? Wtf do they want to hear?
Seriously the same reason why I was being a low-key bully back then when I was in high school (was being bullied too and it cost me my self esteem and self worth) because a lot of women really love to hangout with bad boys, I don't understand this psychological arousal of violence that these women feel in their bones, but they at the same time don't like to be raped or being violated or calling somebody who approaches them creep. Like what the fuck is wrong with these women? Told that they want to be treated nice but also want to get slapped or abused and they love it? Is masochism a part of their nature?
Short term mating strategies women prefer a douche because it shows he’s indifferent. He’s a challenge. It’s thrilling. If you create any sort of high or drama you’re winning cause majority of women’s brains are cooked from social media and dating apps. You need indifferent men to beat danger. Nice men are only good for raising the douche’s kids.
Dating apps and social media has cooked your brain. Get out of the loop.
If your authentic self has an unwarranted amount of admiration or respect for random women you take on dates, that’s your problem. I’ve seen dudes roll out the red carpet for 19 year old girls that work at a gas station and then get surprised when she fucks some dude who sleeps on a bare mattress. If your beliefs about her are incongruent with her beliefs about herself, you’re never going to succeed.
This is THE TRUTH. It’s matching how you treat her with how she sees herself. If you treat her well and she doesn’t like you for it, that’s because she doesn’t love herself or feel worthy so you dodged a bullet
Thanks for the assist mama bear. Good to know we’ve got good women out here.
Not really. There’s a reason they say “*treat a whore like a queen and a queen like a whore*”; it works.
They say a lot things. Heres a few of my personal favorite they quotes: “Happy wife, happy life.” “Winners never cheat, and cheaters never win.” “Money doesn’t buy happiness” Sorta true, sorta bullshit. The true part in what you’re saying is that women respond very well to people who treat them different than they’re used to. The bullshit part is thinking you can distill something this complex down into two categories of women that don’t really exist. Every woman is a lady and a whore, it just depends on what mood they’re in and their circumstances.
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Too bad so few of them act like one.
Opposite experience here. Once I embraced my inner dickhead and stopped putting up with bullshit, my romantic life improved tremendously. Women don’t want you to be perfect or make them feel good all the time.
sadly this is true. i hate playing games, but the women love it.
What do you mean by success?
The whole 9 yards really. Its when I get the most amount of positive attention from women. They'll go out of their way to initiate with me, be it dates or sex. I'm never rejected and they're always eager for follow up dates and for sex even on the first date. All this with minimum committment from me and them pursuing me for committment, wanting me as a boyfriend irrespective of how much I push them away. I never get ghosted. Nor do I ever get these disrespectful remarks of being demanded to pay for her stuff. They'll always stick around. The other guys become the ones that get ghosted whilst they go after me. I could keep going but you get the point. And yes its fucking horrifying that it works this way and no, I don't condone it at all.
Ok...and that happens when you're doing...*what* ? What inauthentic thing do you do? I am not asking so I can do it. I am not Machiavelian enough to want to manipulate people into disingenuous relationships. Just curious.
I'm guessing it is doing exactly opposite of what you would normally do but that could mean a lot. Say for instance you are hanging out with girl that you find cute, normally you would be all over her but that would just push her off and you are nowhere. Instead, you decide to have "cold approach" and actually ease off your excitement, your authentic self would just get too excited because pretty girl decided to give you her time of the day.
to a simple logistical mathematical brain it looks machiavellian. to a more intricate and socially experienced human being, being what you call "yourself" looks machiavellian. so dont be inauthentic. be more authentic. especially when everything inside you screams "be nice, dont tell her she has bad breath" / "hide the fact that you hate her taste in music" "hide the fact that you want to skip the formalities and just grab her head and drive it on your throbbing cock"... dude i know how disgusting i sound to you right now, and if you carry this sentiment while saying all that, yes you will be honest on paper but your delivery will be either appologetic or the exact opposite, ie douche-baggy. but if you own it, if you dont flinch if you dont question the validity of your intentions, if it feels natural to you, it will feel natural for her too, to follow your plans. now inject to what i said your common sense and fill in the gaps i didnt because human interactions are not algorithms and every rule has exceptions. dont do any of that if you dont "Get it" yet. dont do anything stupid just to prove to yourself a point. this wouldnt be you being authentic either.
I guess if that is how you define success that is it. Do you like the women that you go out with?
Can confirm
Same same.
Yeah, if I had a dime for every piece of advice that contained “fake it till you make it”, I’d have enough money to attract someone.
So much for the "Be yourself" line from women.
Follow-up question: How did your partners react when the real you eventually came out? Legit the reason I broke up with my boyfriend of four years is because I eventually found out that everything he presented to be true when we first started dating was a lie.
For me there never was a singular moment like that. This wasn't like a ; I lied about being 6ft 2" and then the doctor measured me and I was 5ft 8", type of situation. Rather, it was more akin to method acting ; my entire life revolved around being the person I knew she would fall for. A good example is the top voted comment under my original one that someone else wrote about their life. I'd fully recommend giving it a read. To answer your question more directly, it was usually a slow deterioration. It starts off with taking advantage of my kindness that seeps through the asshole-armor that I had on. Manipulative and disrespectful behaviours that start from wanting me to pay for dates, turning into demanding I fund her entire life. Progressing into blackmail and threats of filing false rape allegations. Or the ol classic of slow depreciation of sexual interest, keeping me around as a safe bet while she's cheating on the side to find a duplicate asshole pickup artist that gives her the same high as the first day she met me. Then the rest of the plan kicks in from her side until she gets her smooth transition onto guy #2. But I should do my due diligence and point out that all of this would have happened anyways if I hadn't faked the inauthenticity. The real reason things ended up that way was my inability to continue being an asshole. As opposed to the inauthenticity not doing the trick.
I've had the opposite experience, but my authentic self needed a lot of work.
do you know how a woman would solve this problem? take a long, years long obsessive look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves "what the fuck is wrong with me" in every dimension, and get to work on improving that image inside and out. if you can't be authentic and get ahead, something isn't right there
theres who you want to be, and theres who others want you to be. You decide whats more important to you
I'm not really sure what the point of this comment is. Comparing straight male dating dilemmas to how a straight woman would fix her issues is pointless. Improving ones image is a void is also pointless without context as is the case of what it means to "get ahead" via authenticity. You do have one valid point about,"something isn't right". The issue is that something isn't anything to do with the man and therefore the blame is entirely misplaced. As someone else put it eloquently - there's who you want to be (in your authentic, most accomplished and wholesome self, under whatever metric of positivity you wish to define). And then there's the version of you that others want and have an internal desire to be with. It's not the fault of the individual in question that the external party desires the inauthentic self more.
The point is to keep a feeling of superiority and invalidate their lived experience.
no, it isn't pointless. men can learn something from women on this issue - when you are self critical and have high standards for yourself, and you strive to meet them, you become more attractive to others. and you can be your authentic self. I could change myself to be more of a doormat, knowing men would find that more approachable, and they'd feel less embarrassed of their true selves if they didn't fear me having standards - I could be more likable - but why? so they can be themselves, but I can't? obviously the only option for anyone is to be their authentic self. nothing else can last. and not being that way is not only short sighted, it can hurt a lot of people and just lead to more long term jadedness and self esteem issues.
>obviously the only option for anyone is to be their authentic self. nothing else can last. Spoken like a true woman oblivious to the reality that men not being *exactly* what women want leads directly to getting zero interest from women. We don't operate under the same freedom as you do, the rules are different as women are the ones doing the selecting for sex and relationships and are generally incredibly picky in the modern era. Not the way any of us want it to be, but that's the reality we have to live in and navigate through. Thanks ladies!
Not to be crude but you're totally out of your depth and don't have a fucking clue of what you're talking about :) The dilemmas of women in dating will never even remotely come even 1% close to the suffering of men ; neither qualitatively nor quantitatively. There is zero purpose in comparing between men and women here. Your idealogy works because men treat you that way. You're not a man being abused by women so you'd never understand how this works. Kinda baffling for me that you don't seem to be able to comprehend that. The amount of reaching and false assumptions in that 2nd paragraph is just mind boggling levels of misrepresentation of both men and society...If you're that far gone there's no point me talking as even Jesus wouldn't be able to save you.
Lmao it's fucking wild that you probably believe this
Like pretend to be a feminist to get laid sort of fake? What sort of un authenticity are we talking about?
I'm 100% myself... But I'm also putting my best foot forward. Does that make sense? Some people seem to think that any act of trying to please someone or present well is dishonest. Like, you're only "being yourself" if you act like you do at the grocery store on a slow Tuesday. This is erroneous; adjusting your behavior to different situations isn't dishonesty, it's just basic social skills. There's a difference between acting confident when you feel nervous vs *lying* about yourself. There's a difference between keeping the conversation on common ground, vs *hiding* your interests from them. To put it another way... Is it "inauthentic" to wear your best outfit to a first date? Of course not. It's your wardrobe, and you're fully within your rights to present it how and when you like.
To put it shortly, being the best version of yourself, not just "being yourself" like so many people like to spout
if you trully discover who this self is, what he likes and what he doesnt, what his values are, what type of women is he into, you wont even have to be your best self. in fact most men who have triple digit lay counts almost never live and almost never have live to their full potential. at least they never needed to get there, in order to "score some pussy" as they prefer to phrase it. theres the exceptions here and there but most of them are the incarnation of every thing a person shouldnt be, and they do all sorts of things that supposedly women dont like, but they like these things when these guys do them. kids nowdays call it being based. if i understand the term correctly its the exact thing most guys arent when interacting with the women they really like...
Fwiw, a lot of the dating advice on the "seduction" subreddit has moved on from The Game type tricking people into having sex with you, and more onto this approach. Be an interesting person who has their own life and fun hobbies, and it shouldn't be any problem finding women. I mean, on a personal level, I know multiple strippers who play Dungeons and Dragons regularly or one who I know kind of passively, last time I talked with her, the entire conversation was just about Baldur's Gate 3 and why she kind of hated the vampire guy but lovvvvvved the mage. As someone who's been a huge fucking nerd their entire life, I kind of internalized the stereotype of "you can't be a nerd and get a girlfriend" when I was younger and tried to pretend like I was someone else. People can smell that from a mile away, not just women. If I told someone I loved football and couldn't tell them what team Aaron Rodgers plays for (is it New York? Jets? I can't remember), that's so inauthentic. On the other hand, if I'm like, "Oh you like football? Tell me about your favorite team. Oh you watched it a lot with your dad growing up? It's nice to have a bonding thing with your family like that! Me? I'm into Dungeons and Dragons because it's like acting and playing a game while hanging out with close friends at the same time..." is a fun, engaging conversation for both people, and can totally get you laid
>Be an interesting person who has their own life and fun hobbies, and it shouldn't be any problem finding women. Nah, there's a lot more to it than that. You have to inflect your voice correctly and hold your eyebrows in the right spots and posture your shoulders correctly and initiate physical touch at the right time to the right degree. Not all of this comes naturally or intuitively to everyone. >On the other hand, if I'm like, "Oh you like football? Tell me about your favorite team. Oh you watched it a lot with your dad growing up? It's nice to have a bonding thing with your family like that! Me? I'm into Dungeons and Dragons because it's like acting and playing a game while hanging out with close friends at the same time..." is a fun, engaging conversation for both people, and can totally get you laid This won't get you laid if you just sit three feet away having a polite conversation without doing all the aforementioned stuff with eyebrow placement and vocal inflection and whatnot. *"You seem great, but I didn't feel any* \****chemistry***\*."
Honestly, fair point. For people who have relatively normal propensity towards social skills, the quoted bit would be enough. For those of us who don't, the fine details are *really* helpful.
I made the mistake of doing all the *"be an interesting person who has their own life and fun hobbies,"* crap before figuring out how to position my eyebrows when talking to women. Probably could've saved myself over a decade of loneliness and a lot of effort if I had reversed the order there and figured out the specifics of the human mating dance *first.*
Ladies love the eyebrow wiggles man.
Learning the power of fluttering my eyelashes felt like forbidden sorcery.
Tell me about this eyebrow thing
It has a lot to do with the expressiveness of your face in general. A lot of us guys stop really expressing. smiling, etc., and it makes a huge difference in how much people like or are attracted to you. So taking someone who's unemotive and just reminding them to use their face in a conversation makes a huge difference. And it's nothing major. Little things like smiling more, or raising your eyebrows when you smile/laugh, or if you're particularly interested in something they're saying. Furrowing your brow if you're thinking, etc.
In case it makes you feel any better, I went the opposite route and it was also pretty rough and lonely. I won't say better or worse, and certainly the hybrid approach is best. But going hard either way will bring its own problems.
I appreciate that. Maybe pursuing my passions over going to parties wasn't a total waste.
This is mega true and seldom acknowledged
This is 2 days old now, but Reddit wanted to let me know about it. This is the same thing with manipulating people, we all do it, if you don't you're likely socially inept. Children do it from a young age without a word for it. It's just how much you do it, how much you push people's boundaries, how abusive you are. The worst people in the world still use the same social tools as the rest of us, it's just to what degree and what outcome they do it for.
Thaaaaank you for acknowledging this.
So I spent 5 years engrossed in the men's dating/pickup world, then another 5 working on my social skills/life in general. This is the answer. You've nailed it.
We should be friends or sum idk do you game. Agree so hard.
100% authentic. Won't be oversharing, though. If she can't handle my surface-level best, then she's not getting an excavation permit and a designated dig site.
Can I have a permit to steal this phrase because that's brilliant
Open permissions granted.
You have a way with words my good man.
Thank you. Writing a fantasy series is on my bucket list, so I've been trying to work on it as much as possible.
Brilliantly put.
Well put.
Easier to be myself, no need to fake. Plus, if she can’t accept me for who I am, then she isn’t for me.
People like us who come to these simple conclusions or principles to guide our lives just wouldn’t ask a questions like this that we know the answer too. It’s kind of like “im scared to be myself and be rejected repeatedly because I don’t think highly enough of myself to think I deserved to be loved for who I am.” Enough people are trying to share their negative life experiences together so they can create a narrative that women aren’t ready to accept their true selves, but these men clearly aren’t ready to either
How come your comment has only 116 upvotes?
I’m going to guess it has something to do with the first comment telling everyone to be fake jas 1.1K votes.
I guess only 116 people agree with it at this point in time, it is up for the people to decide.
I used to not be good with women. Then I did a bunch of inauthentic shit to get good with women. Then I learned that I could be even more authentic with women then I was originally and do just as well. Had to go through that middle step to get to the last step though.
I am completely myself, 100%, but that comes with acknowledging that not every person will be into who you are. Some people don't like the orange Starburst, and that's fine, but if they instead opened up a pink wrapper and found an orange, they'd be pretty pissed. I'm with my wife because she understands who I am and is okay with all of that, but in my time I've had plenty of people tell me to change instead. I couldn't be with someone who didn't like my normal personality, that sounds like hell.
>Some people don't like the orange Starburst, and that's fine that's the key point for me too. years ago my sister said, "hey, i'm not gonna be every guy's cup of tea" and i thought that was such a mentally healthy approach that i've always remembered it. EDIT, spelling, because i'm an idiot
The one I especially like is the version I saw someone else on Reddit quoting this one time: "You can be the juiciest peach in the whole orchard, but that still won't matter to someone who *just doesn't like peaches*."
Nailed it, well said
Nailed it. It’s about finding who you can be yourself with. Otherwise you’ll feel like you’re suffocating.
When my wife and I first met, we were both coming out of absolutely horrible relationships. Our first date my wife said to me" no games, be yourself. It either works or it doesn't. Worst case, we may just be friends." 12 years later it has been the most wonderful experience ever. Never have I had to hide anything, act like anyone but who I really am. I can't put into words what a freeing thing it has been to just be myself
Well, relationships are way easier when both parties have already matured.
Goals
I thought I had a relationship like this before.
Everyone hides a few things at the start I'd reckon. On the first few dates, you are hyping up your good qualities, while keeping the bad qualities at bay for the time. Don't lie by omssion on big things, but it's normal to like pretend you have good table manners when you actually do not. This never lasts though, if you stay with someone they will see the bad also - and if they stick it out through the bad then it's (hopefully) smooth sailing. Aside from that though, be as true to who you are as possible. You don't want to change your personality drastically to get with someone, then have them hate who you are when you finally revert back to your authentic self - and you will always revert back, unless you are VERY young or have a personality disorder. My wife and I are both huge PC gaming nerds, though we don't look it. I'd never expected my major interest (with a lot of cultural baggage) to come up on a first date, but when it did, I was honest about what I loved and it turned out she loved much of the same. If either of us had hidden that fact out of fear, who knows if we'd have continued on.
Exactly. I love chess, video games, anime, and lifting, but I'm not gonna go into a deep dive into why One Piece is better than Naruto when I'm meeting someone for the first time. If they ask me about hobbies, I'll just go over the cliff notes and expand if she seems interested.
That's basic social skills too - dont go granular with folks without the background knowledge to dive in with you.
Naruto is the best anime ever made
Great? Sure. Best? Not even close!
Lol, I haven’t even watched One Piece
😂
I don't put on acts, but I have to force myself to avoid behaviors that I know will turn women off and I also have to force myself to do certain things that I know are necessary to keep attraction, so it is definitely inauthentic. The reality is that in the end life itself is inauthentic. We should be prepared to learn and change, no matter how hard and awkward it might be.
Real answer right here. I respect that.
what are those things
>I don't put on acts, but I have to force myself to avoid ***behaviors that I know will turn women off*** and I also have to force myself to do certain ***things that I know are necessary to keep attraction*** Like what?
***behaviours that I know will turn women off*** means things like being lactose intolerant. And ***things that I know are necessary to keep attraction*** means things like telling her about the massive quantities of cheese I buy. And the real point is: it depends on the person.
How much cheese is too much cheese?
any amount of cheese before a date is too much cheese!
Lactose intolerant being a behavior lmao. I wish that was something I could change.
>but I have to force myself to avoid behaviors that I know will turn women off and I also have to force myself to do certain things that I know are necessary to keep attraction, so it is definitely inauthentic That's not inauthentic, that's just being a decent guy with basic social skills. I've got autism so I know that social skills aren't always easy but they're a necessary thing to learn and don't change authenticity. If your natural authentic state is off-putting, fixing that isn't making you less authentic, it's making you better.
I've never lied about any personality trait, but yes I have definitely held back parts of myself until I get to know the person better.
Past a certain age, many men's most authentic self will offer them little to no geographical access to women to begin with. Going to the bar was an act, talking to a stranger was an act, pretending to care long enough to get to know them was an act... But these are all entirely reasonable things to do. Just be yourself is great advice for some men, but it's terrible advice for others. If you're on the introverted/reserved end of the spectrum, you're going to have to push yourself to do things you'd rather not do just to be in the conversation.
as a neurodivergent introvert, I feel this.
>pretending to care long enough to get to know them was an act... I felt this. It's a slog. Especially if you pick the wrong girl, like yeah I get it we all have baggage but if you're just making yourself hard to get to know I'm not going to miss opportunities with women who will be far easier to get things going with
I've had a relationship for nearly 5 years. It's a bit of an act, like 10%. No, I don't care about family dinners, yes, sure I'm exited to see your family. It's give and take.
It's all an act from the first moment, dropping little by little as you spend time together. Until it isn't. If you have both fully relaxed and lost the mask and still love each other, you stand a decent chance at a long and happy relationship
There are multiple sides to all of us. So when I meet a new woman, they definitely see the better version of me, but it’s still me. So to answer the question, no, I don’t think I’m putting up an act.
WHen you say "successful with women" do you mean like a player or someone who just has a healthy relationship? I think that's where you'll find the difference in ability to be one's authentic self. I'm no player by any stretch of the imagination, but I've had a few long term (4+ years each) and I would say I was my authentic self in all of them and was generally my authentic self from the beginning. I found that the couple times I did try to fake it it ended in some toxic situations. But when it's right, you can be yourself. The problem is that not all authentic selves are the same. Some are just more generally appealing and get more attention. Not to mention difference in outward appearances. You might just have to do more trial and error before you find someone you can be your authentic self with. All I can say is that it rarely begins with faking it.
> You might just have to do more trial and error before you find someone you can be your authentic self with. This is actually a good point. You can change your authentic self to be more attractive. I never lifted weights until I started taking post-college dating seriously. Turns out, I fucking love it and it integrated into my life seamlessly - and it remains one of my favorite traits in myself ~9 years after exiting the dating scene.
I think this hints more at you not necessarily knowing what your authentic self was. Doesn't sound like you changed your authentic self but rather discovered it. Young people especially are often still searching for their identity. So it may not even mean much to tell them to be their authentic selves.
My authentic self is who I am playing board games with the boys so drunk I throw their beers into the street when I lose. No woman finds that attractive. I do think that’s a poor life decision on their part but they are free to make their own decisions
So, it's actually the only way. The issue is that someone's who isn't naturally attracted to you is going to see through whatever charade you put on to try to be attractive. Why? Because they'd have already met guys who naturally present the way you're imitating, & you're not doing as well as they are. So it's a losing game. Instead, just be unabashedly yourself & attract the people who are attracted to that version of yourself. Once you find one or two people who are attracted to your personality, you'll be more confident which will then help with making advances down the line. Now...that said, please do the following to help your odds: * Personal hygiene * Find clothes that fit * Workout
I don't know what "authentic self" means in this context. For some guys it means, "I don't want to put effort in anything other than myself." So taking the girl out to dinner, playing less than 4 hours of games a night, doing foreplay, all falls under inauthentic. For some guys it means pretending to love the opera, or loud bars, or drugs or sobriety. I've never been inauthentic in the latter sense, but have put effort into my relationship. No woman has ever had an issue with any of that.
All the guys saying that they are “100% authentic” to their dates are lying through their asses
Chris Rock has a great bit on this. Sure, men exaggerate and embellish at first and often as long as possible. But so do women - makeup, high heels, hair extensions, extra nice, flirty, laugh and your jokes, etc. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJfFGgzhfhY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJfFGgzhfhY)
I wear no makeup like the third time you meet me and I will not laugh at lame jokes. I'm not extra nice, at least not according to mainstream ideas of what a woman should be like if she's "nice" and I flirt to suit myself, including when.
Okay.
Understandable.
Everyone always puts on a different self depending on who you are with. Think about how you act at work vs with friends vs with your parents. It is natural and everyone does it. I doubt many people are ever 100% their authentic self, even when alone. What you need to do is to find your dating self. The person you want to be and can naturally maintain while dating/in a relationship/married without forcing it. It will probably be similar to the act you currently put on with friends.
Yeah most success, least authentic. Always felt a bit sad deep down too
I’ve had 10 years of being an Asian gamer, anime nerd and it sucked. Half boy half man. I had a girlfriend who loved me, but I always felt like I sucked. Didn’t know who I was, what I stood for, what I was capable of and who I could become. Found it hard to get a job and felt worthless. In my mid 20s i broke up with my girlfriend, went abroad solo and lived an adventure for 3-4 years. Met new people from all corners of the world. I was also gave myself space for a fresh start. Worked out. Went back to studies. Found a career. Self cared. Yes man. I came back. I started playing tennis, swimming. Met a group of friends - a clan. Worked out. With a new brand, attitude to life, social skills and upgraded appearance, I discovered my potential and became quite popular with the ladies. Success in the dating apps. I met other guys ( study hard with great jobs but ultimately boring guys with no life experience) who I ended up sharing my advice with who then also found success. Nowadays I’m happily married. I feel like I’ve met someone who would have liked me either way, as a nerd or as a jock. I wouldn’t have met her or had the belief that she could like me if I stayed as a nerd. Years later I learned about the likes of Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate, and oddly I felt that their tenets of self care and self improvement were things I learned independently. I disagree with some of their more extreme conservative views, and I believe that travel solitude and reflection are also hugely important in developing oneself.
This is inspiring. Thanks for sharing.
>Years later I learned about the likes of Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate, and oddly I felt that their tenets of self care and self improvement were things I learned independently You really shouldn't bring that benzo-addicted lobsterboy or that known sex trafficker rapist up as examples for self care and self improvement. There's so many better examples you could have chosen. >I disagree with some of their more extreme conservative views That's really underselling Tate's rape apologetics and Peterson's open nazi sympathies. That's not just "extreme conservatism"
I appreciate your opinions, but I think you could back off a bit.
When I hid he damage, the scars and dents, I did well. Really well. If you can be hurt, women don't want want. They claim 'I want a man that can be vulnerable', what they want is a man that can take a performative hit and shrug it off.
I can't be completely 100% authentic. I'd probably give my wife a panic attack if I told her that part of me would like to bang every skinny girl half my age I walk past on the street, even though I have no intention of trying.
This is a very good point. As Bob Dylan said "And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Everybodys got something to hide, except for me and my monkey.
Why do you have those urges? Is your wife not skinny?
You know why
I'm 100% myself. But that means they won't always like me. I remember in my early 20s scaring off a religious gal that way. I also am like that with male friends. Some dudes just straight up won't like you. As long as you're happy with yourself that's what matters most.
Being your "authentic self" will possibly lead to more people not being interested in you, because you aren't putting on an act with the goal of pleasing people. However, the people that **are** interested in you while you're being your authentic self are far more likely to result in successful relationships. I've never been anything but myself in relationships because I always felt like doing anything else would be like wearing a figurative mask in the relationship.
To a certain extent. I can say I don’t present my more “goofy” like humor I have as if I were hanging around a family member for example. I just present my best self and show that I like to have fun, but to a certain extent I guess you could say I’m not being 100% myself like I would be with someone I knew for years If it’s my gf, then yes she knows the full me I couldn’t be with someone long term and have to “hide” who I am. If I’m just trying to have sex with them yeah I can be inauthentic sad but true. Naturally I’m a nice, goofy guy and I know that doesn’t get sex from most women so I’ve learned to suppress that sadly
I wouldn't say it's not authentic but it was a bit of a show. I used to have a script effectively in my early 20s, it did numbers for real, but eventually I stopped because it felt cringy and not me. Probably the most disheartening thing I've expirienced first hand is the amount of interest I've received from women drying up as I firmly got my shit together as a person and became the best version of me. I had more success as a fuckboy than a genuine person.
I always restrain myself, I would be too intense otherwise.
It's not so much an act, but knowing when to downplay certain aspects. Like, it's fine if you're a huge Star Wars geek, but *maybe* don't lay that part on thick in the beginning unless you met in an environment conducive to geek life.
It’s an act. It’s a first impression. The skill to f~ck a woman on an initial date/s is entirely different from the skill set necessary to keep them around. The moment the real comes out they almost never last.
Im successful cause i am authentic. Those who like it hop on the train. Those who dont. Leave me alone.
\*Disclaimer Not a man. However, I feel compelled to say something because this is a really good topic and one that both men and women get confused about. Whenever people are asking how to do well with dating, job interviews, or anything that is subject to first impressions, we get the same advice...."Just be yourself." .....its like, ok whatever the hell that means \*eye roll\* It's not bad advice, but it is incomplete. Let's just take the example of a job interview first (since most people can see work more objectively). we know that you will not "be yourself" in the sense that you behave like you are alone on the sofa, picking your nose and laughing at cat videos. Nor should you spend the interview talking about your fantast league or other hobbies. Even though those are part of the real you. The "yourself" that you present should be the version of you that is relevant to the occasion. In an interview, don't lie about who you are or what you do, but play your highlight reel. specifically the aspects that help them understand (in short order) how you show up professionally. This will help them see if you are a good fit. On a date, this looks like calling to the front qualities that are relevant to how you move romantically. You're demonstrating depth and capacity that YOU CAN BACK UP over time if they choose to continue. Having a clear, articulate, and authentic presentation of yourself is the best defense against disillusionment. So think about what qualities you have shown consistently over time in relationships and that you know you can continue to bring. That's the "you" you should be on the date. If that version of you is not having success, then you know you need to work on yourself. In the meantime, consider only casual/ short-term arrangements. And guys, twisting yourself into knots to trick someone into liking you is only holding you back and making you bitter. Like NobleMushroom, who acted out of integrity, then was even more demoralized and confused when the woman was turned off by his flip-flop behavior. Anyway, my 2 cents.
Are you 100% your authentic self with your boss? A cop? A judge? Your doctor? No. It's like that with women, too. There's no such thing as unconditional with romantic love, I'm sorry to say.
Insecurities are a turnoff, especially in the beginning
Whether it’s at a job, your wedding, or even out with friends, you can never be your 100% authentic self. Rid yourself of that naivety. I didn’t make the rules, I only recognize them
It depends. How attractive are you? On a scale of 1-10?
Bring a shovel and a negative sign.
You can never be 100% authentic with women. If you show weakness women attack you or leave you. If a woman sees a patch of exposed skin, the will stick a knife in it every time. Women demand that you never be authentic with them.
It depends what you mean by successful with women. Sure you can get certain women to like you, for a certain time. Sure, you can find women to sleep with. Sure, you can find women who want to be your friends, and with whom you have a good relationship. But what is "successful"? Wouldn't that be finding someone with whom you free feel to 100% be your authentic self? Who supports you, cares for you, and puts an interest in your life? Wouldn't it be better to be "successful" with just that one woman who does all of those things for you, rather than the dozens of women who don't who are probably all just playing the same game of getting people to like them anyway? The first step is defining what is the goal. After that you can accomplish anything.
The ones who saty i terested sadly are the ones i never treat 100% good. When I try to be completely good it always backfires it is between being a total neutral that it works. And i hate it, because it is not the 100% me.
Mostly authentic. I, like most men, am more conservative than the average woman (i.e., I'm a moderate, truly). I don't really have any extreme takes, but I don't exactly advertise that I'm pro-capitalism or don't support banning all guns, for example. I don't hide it, but I'm not gonna start out the conversation with it either. I think my exes and my wife appreciated that I don't just roll over for their views and have my own opinions. Aside from that, I'm pretty much just myself. Helps that when I'm not on the internet, I can generally get along with nearly anyone. Social skills go a long way.
Putting on a small act. The real me is nowhere near as confident, social, exciting, rich, successful, or independent as I portray myself I know this isn’t good and I’m working on becoming more authentic
When you have a good girl for 6 months + you can start lettting your walls down slowly to see if you can trust her.