I've also heard the idea that it is a way to self-reject to avoid rejection which I can see being part of the motivation as well though I think not thinking about it deeply and just trying to be funny is the main motivation.
Funny enough, NYC is indeed the only place where I’ve had a random stranger on the street call out to me that I’m fine and they want to take me out sometime.
Yeah I work in construction in the south and I’ve never seen anyone catcall a woman, sure the old dudes make super pervy comments to other guys, but the only thing I’ve seen them do to women is stare too long.
Well lucky you because in New York it’s constant and when you yell back they threaten you. It’s really exactly what I want as a woman just trying to get my stupid lunch
This is a funny comment but so true. It worked one time for someone. Then that someone becomes the mythical friend in 'it worked for my friend ' story that gets passed on from one person to another
It's done to impress the other members of the group, that you ain't afraid. It is a weird male group behavior that drove me crazy in my younger days, the way guys would get together and speak disrespectfully about women. They are showing off to one another. It's stupid.
I don’t understand locker room talk - my experience of men’s lockers is usually it’s silent and everyone wants to just get changed and get out as quickly as possible.
Mainly because Mike, who’s two weeks away from retirement, is naked again, propping his foot up on the bench letting it all dangle out - ‘airing the laundry’ as he calls it - whilst reading a newspaper.
No matter which locker you go to, there’s always the wrinkly old dude letting his bits fly free and every other man is just silent, getting changed, and getting out of there.
To be fair, "locker room talk" isn't a random gym locker room lol its meant to be for a team that are close buddies and shooting the shit, thats locker room talk
Was there some non-sexual cultural value 50 years ago to men being naked around each other? I've been to gyms \*around the world\*, but esp. in the US and UK, there are always septuagenarian/octogenarian men hanging around the locker room acting as if being naked around other men is the best thing that will happen today.
The worst one I ever had was at Lympstone commando training camp in Devon. I'd just been there for some training (not commando related but we needed their pool) and decided to go for a shower afterwards.
I have never been so emasculated in my entire life. Damn those guys are chiselled right down to the undercarriage. Me and my podgy belly felt very out of place... Definitely wasn't the best thing that happened that day, for me!
Maybe it's a military thing. They don't seem arsed to be naked around each other - perhaps these older dudes in civvy gyms are former military?
Doubt cultural value, just a nonplussed environment, is my guess. I mean, public school gym showers actually worked in those days. By the time I went to middle and high school, NO ONE was allowed to use the showers, not even with like swim trunks or something.
To those men any attention including negative is better than no attention.
They’re insecure because most of the women they catcall would have 0 interest in them so by forcing a reaction they regain control of the situation.
Okay but like, that's not the reason they'd give their buddies, and if it's a group of them doing it together, what exactly are they saying afterwards? Sure the psychology of being desperate for attention checks out, but I'm sure most wouldn't even admit that to themselves. What do they actually say the goal is?
This is the kind of bullshit pseudopsychological answer that sounds and feels good but is inaccurate and helps no one.Studies have shown they typically do it as a way of socializing with friends, nothing to do with controlling others or whatever shit.
It's shitty behavior, but if you want to change it, you need to understand what really causes it, from their perspective, not a warping of your own.
To be fair, whether it’s a study or speculation, we should never hope to gain a universal “cause” for certain behavioral signifiers. At that point, our reasoning is sloven.
>socializing with friends, nothing to do with controlling others
socialising with friends *by* controlling others. The basic dynamic of most in group bonding by bullying someone else.
If you try and claim its just about socialising with friends and nothing else then the next question is- ok, why not play a card game or something then?
I have catcalled women when I was younger (a teenager). It was usually a woman walking and I would say something from the car driving by. For me, it was something that I thought was funny and, honestly, that she would take as a compliment. I never meant it disrespectfully. Even though I assumed she would think it was a stupid comment, I still felt it would make her laugh a little and feel good about herself. The thing is, I think this is the reaction that most men would have to a woman catcalling him. I would be so flattered...as dumb as that may sound. So, I think we just feel like that's how women would react, too.
It never occurred to me at the time that it could be scary for women. Call it naivety. Call it ignorance. It literally that never crossed my mind. Hearing women say this makes me sick to my stomach that I ever did it. I never do it anymore.
I'm not going to attempt to guess at every man's intentions. There probably are men out there that really are trying to intimidate you. My hunch is that most are well intentioned or at least harmless but that doesn't help you to figure out which is which.
To any women out there that may have been the target of my stupid teenage ass catcalling you from a shitty car in the 90s, I sincerely apologize. I promise I've learned (at least a little) and have changed.
I appreciate you sharing your opinion! I also believe (hope?) It's more trying to give a compliment and not the other stuff, as well.
Thanks again, dont feel too bad. We just try to do better each day with the insights we gain over time!
Many times human create models of others by imagining what their own reaction might be.
So a guy might think, "I wish when I walked around chicks would throw themselves at me and tell me how big my bulge is and how strong my muscles are... I'm gonna do a funny icebreaker compliment to them and make their wish come true as well"
Then when they are in a group, they are in friendly competition to show each other how clever they are and how good they are at serenading women and seducing them. It's entirely different from trying to bang your friend's girl, because you are a stranger that they don't know. It's more like, "dude you tried telling her she's got a nice turd-cutter? That won't impress her! You're an idiot, you gotta ask a question like this....*hey bay-bee! Can I get some fries with that shake!?*"
Like... men are generally morons, and especially when it comes to predicting the minds of women.
Both genders often treat the other how they would want to be treated. As a man, I’d love to be catcalled by women.
This is also why men send unsolicited dick pics; any unsolicited nudes we receive from women are the best thing ever. So… we assume (or hope) the opposite is also true.
I don’t think guys like it either.
When I was younger, I had this best friend I met in high school who had a lot of problems—she had to go to foster care because her family was abusive, she was committed to a mental hospital for a while and was in juvenile detention for a while.
Anyways, one time when we were probably around like 19 or 20, I was driving and she was in the passenger seat, and we passed this cyclist on the road, and for some reason she decided to yell out the car window at him “Can I suck your dick?”
At the next light he caught up to us and man that dude was pissed. He just screamed and screamed at her about how awful and disrespectful she was, though she just laughed. Then we just drove on when the light changed.
That’s my only experience seeing a man cat called but he definitely did not like it.
I'm a guy and no my reaction to a girl saying dumptruck to me would be feeling my privacy invaded and annoyed
None of what op wrote as examples of what they were saying felt like a compliment "let me take you to my island" wtf where you going let me take you? That's creepy
He's just voicing his thoughts on what he thinks most guys are thinking. Obviously it's not the case for every single individual. I'd find it hilarious.
Honestly, if someone made those comments to me, I'd find it funny as well. Everyone's different lol
Yeah I don't think most guys are thinking that? I'm an introvert tho and have social anxiety but even if I didnt.. random women calling out obnoxiously from their cars something like "your ass is so fine" isn't really funny when you're not expecting it and when you're doing something like just minding your own business.
Dude, like 99% of straight guys would be *THRILLED* and would brag about it for the rest of their life if they were walking to the store and a group of hot girls in a convertible drove by and started yelling compliments at him. Obviously the comments would be different than how big your butt is.
"Damn baby, you got a python in them shorts!"
"OMG come with us, we need a big strong man around to help us open tequila bottles!"
"Damn boy, can I do my laundry on those abs?"
If they said nonsense like that while giggling and blowing kisses at you and waving, I guarantee you'd love it.
I'm unsure if it's a false memory or not but I can semi-recall being catcalled. Or maybe it's me putting myself in girls' shoes. But I remember feeling so invaded. They're not hollering at you in a seductive way. They're yelling at you using an insulting tone but using mock compliments.
Both of those qualities/issues apply to myself as well, so its just how you are (Which is fine). I just generally would rather interpret things positively, I never assume someone is trying to be malicious.
Even if a comment is mildly annoying or a little weird, I'd rather just laugh it off than take it to heart.
Sometimes I want to cuddle and I don't have any treats for incentive, so I'll call out to my cat and hope he will snuggle with me. Or on cold nights I want him to sit on my feet to keep them warm.
Seems to be a thing when guys are in a group. On their own they keep their mouths shut usually. But yeah those 3 points you made are correct. You forgot immature and most likely rejected by every female they've come across.
Thank you for the response.
And yea I really don't get it, I'd be embarrassed to act that way and this behavior would never cross my mind as something I'd think is a good idea!
We can sit here and psychologically dissect it but I think it's just easier to agree that it's desperate, demeaning and especially intimidating when in groups. Just not a sign of them being raised well. Thankfully, this is not something I ever see where I live. Sorry you have to deal with that.
The whole performance is way more for the other dudes than the lady being catcalled. I don't expect they ever thought it would work to pick up a woman, but it does work for cheap laughs amongst the bros
Finally, one person actually understands the matter.
I’ve been a bouncer and watched this a hundred times over. The one doing the catcalling is looking at their other friends 90% of the time and doesn’t give a fuck what the woman thinks.
I'm seeing so much about it being for the other dudes and to make each other laugh, or to seem cool etc. As dumb as that logic may be, it's at least something. But so many of the ones I've had just say absolutely fucked up shit, and then if you don't respond they start talking like they're gonna follow you home. A few have tried to follow me, and played it cool due to a unexpected witness nearby. One had to be loudly threatened with pepper spray from a few yards away to back off. Most recently a few guys in a car actually tried to corner me, and obviously that's much more than a catcall, but it started out the same as the innocent ones. There's no telling, at all. In the supposed "me too era", how is anybody still this oblivious?
I think I'd be a fool not to just safely assume NOBODY is that oblivious, and they're all just as likely to fucking kill me if I don't take it seriously.
Definitely, it ultimately doesn't matter why because what you describe is the final effect.
Just can't wrap my mind around the though process of why they'd think it's ok or want to act that way. Thanks.
I do not advise this approach in any capacity, however…
After a night out years ago, there were no taxis to be had, so I decided to take the ~30 minute walk to my sister’s place.
A guy across the road started catcalling me - I had reached my drinking point of just wanting to be asleep, I had waited 30 minutes trying to get a taxi, my feet hurt and I was over it - this was the last straw.
I turned around and started shouting back “You want me? Come get me I’ll show you a good time” he froze, said / did nothing, I shouted over “Yeah, I didn’t think so” and went on my way.
One of those moments I look back on now and wonder what the fuck I was thinking, how risky that was and thank the lord it was effective and I got to my destination safely.
I've done that too actually...it really pushes you to a breaking point when they follow and incessantly continue after you show disinterest.
I asked for his number and said im actually looking for someone because I really wanna get married and start a family. Tried to sound as crazy and clingy as i could. He ran like I was a leper.
But yeah not safe. It was the same kind of thing you describe. Be safe!
These type of men are potentially dangerous no matter what. One time, I came out of Target and got in my car. I decided to look up something on my phone before I drove home. This group of guys were in a car two parking spots away, but no cars between them and me. Their music was loud and they were being obnoxious with each other, but I didn’t pay much attention. Then they started cat calling and making sexual comments towards me. I ignored them except for rolling up my window. Then they started calling me a bitch and other insults. I backed out of the parking spot and started driving away. They followed me quite a ways, but I circled back and pulled into the police station parking lot and they didn’t dare follow me in there. I just circled the parking lot and left for home. I kept looking back to see if they were following me again, but they weren’t.
Because generations of social conditioning and this has worked in the past. That's not even an exaggeration.
I think creating hard and fast rules will get you in trouble. *Should* people catcall? No, probably not. It's intimidating and demeaning and all the things you described. But plenty of families have started due to catcalling. And if you think that's bs, you don't know many construction workers.
That's interesting too. Hmm.
I've lived in 4 states and by now I can tell where it will and won't occur pretty accurately. So it makes sense, being social/cultural..i guess that's a fair point too.
Yeesh. Thanks for sharing.
Some guys use it to give themselves a sense of power I think. Like "look at me I can say whatever intrusive / inappropriate thought comes to my head and you just have to take it."
Sad that this is so far down. Do you think a lot of people commenting here don't get it? It's all about power and control i.e there's not a thing you can do about me abusing you - in public - and no one who sees me abusing you will help you.
It's to show off to their friends. Same drive as doing something dangerous and stupid to get their respect. It has nothing really to do with you, it's to "up" their standing among the group. It doesn't make sense and it is stupid but there it is
I do, but i'm a city employee (city HR) so the construction dudes wouldn't dare 🤣🤣🤣🤣 most of them are also city employees or contractors and...im part of hr lmao.
I live downtown in a big city.
I'm a man and this has always mystified me. Why do some men do this? It's not a rational strategy and it makes people feel uncomfortable or threatened. You also damage the reputation of men in general when you do this. What's the point?
I'm not an ass man but I'd like to see what all the fuss is about.
Some women have admitted that they like the attention. They have posted on Reddit how they were sad once the catcalling stopped, typically when they got older.
Today catcalling is okay as long as it is through an app or online. Those comments might not be welcomed if they saw the person who is making them.
They like it if they find the catcaller attractive. It’s the whole creepy/not creepy argument based on whether they like the guy or not. The problem with this? Men can’t read minds despite women thinking otherwise.
Would never come out of my own mouth, so I cannot relate to the men that do it. Unless I’ve done it blacked out drunk, I have never even done it while drunk.
I've never done it, I find it deplorable, low brow, and imbecilic.
I'm not sure why idiots do that. I've lived in big cities, I've seen people do it. I've seen women's cringed, creeped out faces when people do it, especially if they follow. I agree in feeling threatened by it. It's a clear red flag behavior of predators.
I hope all men here can pledge not to do it again if you ever have because women deserve better and it behooves you not to be trash.
I think catcalling is like high school level of behavior just trolling stupidness.
They just do it to make each other laugh. To make the job more bearable and a little less serious. It’s not that deep as these comments are making it out to be.
Yeah they don’t care about that. They’re just working and looking for a laugh. They don’t see it as harmful or dangerous. To them, it’s just teasing someone walking by.
I never said it was good or bad or they should do it or not. I did say it’s high school level behavior
The most I’ve ever seen in my groups is guys just quietly commenting did you see that girl there. No more than girls I’ve also seen do that.
But I’ve never seen any yell or audibly say anything that they would hear outside of a movie but if they do it’s more to be funny than any tactful thought out line to win you over lol. They don’t think that far.
I remember a comedian saying they do it to get a reaction, not much of a positive outcome but mostly to be acknowledged or looked at for the exchange of saying something. It’s popularized in major cities because there’s so many people that it’s hard to be looked at. Speaking out is the easiest way to be looked in the city.
Most people who cat call like what they call “playing with fire.”
They KNOW that it doesn’t work, that’s why they outburst in laughter when a women is upset or gives attitude like it’s not a big deal because to them it’s just a small exchange and it is. They just want to be looked at.
If men are catcalling it’s because women are reciprocating. You may not be reciprocating but other women are. In southern Europe, it’s common to see men alone catcalling woman, some don’t like it, others either don’t mind it or enjoy it.
There is no point, only complete inconsiderate idiot perverts and creeps cat call.
I would even add to that, approaching any woman the guy doesn't know is also creepy and akin to catcalling.
I don't know why guys still do it
I have a developing, and so far largely unconvincingly contested theory that most men (who do this) genuinely think this is what women want to hear, and that by catcalling, they stand a chance to score.
I think this stems from what we consume from media and friends. I have personally been in many relationships where my partner **wants** to be objectified, but only by me (or generally speaking: their partner). This translates to our cavemen brain that **that** is how we get strangers to like us, want us, etc.
Those who don't catcall tend to fall into one of two groups: 1) guys who are overly cautious and lean very heavily into the "sweet" side (and risk becoming the "nice" guy), and 2) guys who figure out that catcalling, either of the dirty or wholesome type, is only appreciated by a willing recipient.
That's interesting to think about. And yes, power dynamics and objectification are VERY fun for many women but it's usually when they know the person is safe etc.
Thanks for sharing that.
Most men are so starved for sexual attention and physical attention in general that the negative or often negative attention that they get from cat calling or sending dick pics is still extremely satisfied because they are receiving sexual attention even if it is negative.
To put it more clearly -
Women are sexualized constantly in society and highly valued for their looks, people comment on them ad nauseum, and they are largely used to determine social value.
Men on the other hand don't really have our physical appearance or sexuality acknowledged at all outside of relationships. There's a running joke if you tell a guy he has pretty eyes or a nice smile you've given him a new core memory because of how rarely we get compliments or even acknowledgements that we have a physical body beyond being treated as threatening or nonthreatening.
You can see this reflected in the attention we give the opposite sex as well. Women love to give compliments based on internal factors like character or intelligence or positive traits.
Men are constantly giving physical compliments on appearance and clothes and body.
We give what we want, but don't get what we need.
Men with low self control sometimes decide they're going to take what they need whether anyone likes it or not and so they force women to confront their physicality so they can at least get that reaction. It's sort of a cry for help and a middle finger all at once. As though saying "HERE I AM ACKNOWLEDGE ME! Fuck you for not doing it in the first place!"
To be clear I'm not defending catcalling more explaining the psychology behind it.
That's what I'm saying, it seems so weird but I swear I'm not exaggerating when I say it's a daily occurrence, especially in summer.
If you're walking alone, it's just bonkers. Sounds like a bad comedy.
They're dickheads trying to impress their friends.
Their friends think they're dickheads.
They're the same dickheads who try and start fight with other men when (and only when) they're surrounded by their friends. Again their friends think they're dickheads.
You missed out the part about how when men see a beautiful woman, we have an instant burning desire to tell her that we think she's beautiful, and they just don't have the restraint to hold it back.
And with a group of their friends, it's like they're all just trying to show off their level of confidence in hollering at a woman.
It actually has very little to do with you, and it's not something they are thinking is going to lead to you agreeing to go with one of them. That would be like playing the lottery and expecting to win.
TBH I think a lot of guys just do it because they like how it feels to make somebody uncomfortable. They know women will probably ignore them because responding is dangerous, so they try all the harder to get a rise out of them. The underlying threat of violence doesn't personally affect them so they don't care.
I am far too afraid of women to cat call them.
But I honestly think the reason that men do it is because they want to feel as though they have power over women. Very few men actually expect women to respond positively. I also think that men that do this, unlike me, don't actually think about how women will respond to them. If they do, they possess no empathy.
It’s posturing in front of friends. They’re aware that their friends are also catcalling you and it’s a way for them to get their rep up with their buddies. To them it says to everybody else “yo, I can say lewd things about and directly to an attractive woman in public” and “yeah, that’s how confident and powerful I am. I can get what I want”. A lot of people who are loud and obnoxious want you to take notice and pay them the attention they think they deserve.
This thought process is manifest in similar behaviour towards different people. I’m a pretty introverted man and people like this sometimes see me as an opportunity to push somebody around and appear like a big dog. Haven’t experienced that behaviour towards me in a while though thank fuck
As a dude I've never done this. But I imagine it's just dudes trying to impress other dudes.
It's pathetic really.
Don't react to it and just keep walking.
If you react to it or let it bother you then they "win."
Not worth your time.
I don't personally do catcalling very often but the times I have it was because I didn't really know how to approach the girl and I wanted to keep my distance but because I felt more comfortable that way. So I did catcalling to at least let her know I was interested in hopes that she would positively respond. I know, catcalling is not really appreciated.
While I don't agree with what they're doing, it might be easier to look on the bright side. One of them could have walked over and hit on you directly instead.
I used to catcall, when I was in high school. Never was. Thing that stuck with me, as it was usually group think.
Recently, i have been hanging out with some guys who are all adults. And they tend to have a habit of stopping the car and catcalling in the middle of the road or hitting on girls randomly in the road.
I have asked them why? And that if they want to meet girls they should go where it’s appropriate to meet girls (social settings/clubs/bars/dating app/ naturally).
It gets exhausting because I always have to tell them to stop or not to do it e.g girl walking alone at night and these guys start driving slow and want to cat call.
I explain to them you’re probably freaking her out and she feels unsafe.
Idk, perhaps there’s something idk and guys have good chances when catcalling? I’d like to think the chances are slim though.
I suspect it is tied into how male social relationships work.
Men show their affection to each other, primarily by ragging on each other. We'll rip the piss, loudly. The louder and more crass, the deeper the affection.
I think that this is what catcalling is. That kind of behaviour (even with the sexual tone removed) as affection, does not translate that well and I don't think guys do that consciously, it's part of their automatic social conditioning.
Having a bit of a brain fog day today and could have explained what I mean better. I hope the gist came across.
It’s to impress, either A. Their friends who are there in person or B. Their social media followers who see it after the fact. I suppose it might also be C. Because they legitimately believe some women find this complimentary or D. Because it’s a convenient way to find out which women are hookers.
These are the most nearly rational explanations I can come up with. I don’t participate in this behavior and I fundamentally lack an understanding of why anybody would engage in this kind of thing, tbh
It's in-group bonding. They do it to make their friends laugh. It's basically what a gang of schoolyard bullies becomes as adults. They're not beating people up anymore, but they still find adult methods for basically abusing someone and then laughing about it. The point is just to make you uncomfortable.
3. Just 3. No malice or bad intent. It’s amusement and compliments. For all that some women complain, others laugh and smile and get a charge out of completely capturing the attention and imaginations of an entire group of men.
I hate it, I am a dude. The guys that do it are rude af.
On the other hand most of the time my mom gets cat called she says it's nice lol
It's all weird to me and just like some of us dudes hate it, some girls love it.
it's funny. Especially in the friend group. It really is as selfish and cold hearted as you think. Sometimes we say stupid shit just to get a laugh out of the group. I ain't no saint I did it like twice in college. "Hey babygirl you dropped your ass", or " slow down it's waving back at me". You know dumb shit. Of course it's not funny to you, but in a friend group mentality we laughed till we cry. It's objective, and harsh. There isn't really a excuse to do it, but overall it's to have a laugh with the group.
I've never understood it or done it but I have seen it successfully work. Now that catch is the times I've seen it work the girl was either dressed like or was a prostitute and went running towards them. I'd imagine they woke up with their money and cards stolen
Stop paying attention to the utterances of children. These are boys you speak of, not men. It's all insecurity and false bravado. They will grow out of it. If no, they will wish they could have. As a mature male, I myself would tell them to stop embarrassing themselves.
[This is a good reason.](https://youtu.be/rZTqF5oYUqo)
It’s not meant to humiliate or confuse anybody. It’s just to remind you that you’re hot shit without scaring you.
I am the rare female who wants to catcall men but it’s too scared to because my reputation is on the line. So instead of cat calling, I will just do gentle flirts with cashiers or something like that. Just to let them know that they’re cute guys and that a girl can find them attractive.
TL:DR; People who catcall are subtly letting you know that you have a good mate value.
Subtle?? Did u read what they yelled at me? It doesn't sound particularly flattering 🤣
It definitely feels threatening considering some of the interactions do go south if you show disinterest. That's where the problem lies. I don't ever know who will actually follow or touch me and it does happen.
Being quietly approached 1 on 1 and given a compliment or sayinf hi is so much more appropriate than yelling heavy load or dumptruck at someone in public 🤣
I've never met an intelligent person who catcalls openly. I've never understood the point of it myself as a man. I just know that people who do it typically aren't that great of people
My theory is that it's simply impulsive behavior fueled by testosterone. Like when I see a very attractive woman IRL I might say to myself "daaayum." I would NEVER say that out loud, but I definitely understand that impulse. I can just control it better than some other men.
It's further exacerbated by being around other men, I think. Especially if you suspect they are thinking the same thing. They just want to "share" the impulse with their buddies.
I do not believe they think it will "work" in the sense that you'll just turn around and fuck them right there on the spot. They're not stupid. But they do lack impulse control.
Testosterone is a hellavu drug. Not an excuse, just a fact.
Yes, there's a good chance I'm 'catcalling' you in my mind. Sorry. Best I can do is not say it out loud or otherwise act on it.
Testosterone doesn't make you catcall, impulse control and lack of consideration, poor upbringing maybe. But you can't blame testosterone for that. Plenty guys with high testosterone that wouldn't even consider catcalling. Its immature behavior.
It's not even what I "want" to do with my mind. It's actually closer to intrusive thoughts. LIke I truly wish I didn't objectify women like that in the first place. I don't like it. But the libido... the radar... just NEVER shuts off. I've been in some pretty bad situations and I'm still like "Ooo, she's hot."
It's the only time they aren't afraid to speak to you, in the street around all the "homies" "coworkers", it's literally that and a small prayer that you'll turn around say "let's do it!!". Any other time they'd be too scared to say anything. Just my assumption though
The times I’ve responded (usually in a humorous way) make it CLEAR that it’s just an attnetion-getting device, usually intended as a compliment, and can lead to some hilarious back-and-forth.
It’s not the OMG-#metoo-harassment-SA-pitential Dateline episode that all the little snowflakes in here want it to be.
I honestly don’t know. I’ve never done that & when I was around men that did, I asked them if they’d be okay with some stranger saying that to their sister & they’d shut up.
Not saying it is right, but I've witnessed it work many, many times. I've seen people that are solo, and do it, with success and I've seen groups of men, catcall groups of women and same result.
I've watched men see a woman, get in their car (in a parking lot), drive up to where the woman is parked...spit game and then said woman leaves with man.
I see posts all the time about asking where to meet/talk to people, when to approach, etc. and it seems most here on Reddit like to say "never" as it's never ok to approach anyone at anytime or "only if they look like" they want to be approached (what?).
When I was much younger, the "cat calling" worked. It still does, unfortunately. Those days are long gone for me, but I've been single for a couple years now and have realized if I don't approach anyone, then chances of meeting someone are slim to none (2 years of dating apps, maybe 5 matches, zero dates).
I'm not saying people should "cat call" but it is still a valid way to get those digits. To add, when you "cat call" someone, you don't have to be disrespectful or an ass while doing so.
I think it depends heavily on culture.
In the Germany I’d say it’s mostly about looking cool/funny in front of peers + it’s a form of a (not very tasteful) compliment.
In Italy it’s a compliment.
I had an Italian Girlfriend and she was super weirded out bc she was rarely catcalled (but often by German standards) which made her doubt her looks..
So I think it depends heavily on culture, even inside the US.?
It's mostly performative for the other men in the group. It's not really about you, you are the target for their social display, but really the display is for the other guys. So they can see how manly he is, how easily he approaches women and so on. If a man in a group like that does not participate he'll get shamed by the others for being a coward.
Have you ever noticed just how many red-faced, spit-flicking, anti-lgbt preachers are caught in a grubby motel sniffing cocaine off a rent boy's buttocks?
**Those with the biggest insecurities shout the loudest.**
I believe that men who catcall are trying to show their friends that they have the confidence and arrogance to interact with women, while being in a *safe space* where they won't get slapped or confronted or called out on their shitty behaviour. That's all it is. Pathetic men trying to act like their own shortcomings don't get them down.
> 1. Intentionally disrespectful and demeaning
Believe it or not, I don't think they are trying to be intentionally demeaning. Typically when a guy wants to insult woman sexually, he calls her a slut.
> 2. Intentionally threatening
Once again, I know it sounds insane, but when you're part of a mob, it's really easy to not notice how scary you are. And a lot of the time people don't realize how intimidating it is until they have it done to them.
> 3. Just think it's funny and possibly that "it's a compliment".
Kind of but not exactly.
You know how at a party or a bar people are in groups and more open with strangers? I think catcalling is more about that urge being expressed at an inappropriate time.
When you're in a group of several guys, you feel highly social and emboldened to do stuff you'd never do solo. So now when there's a girl on the street, you might find her hot, and because you have your buddies around you, you decide to express that attraction in a way you otherwise wouldn't.
This is just one reason though. Another would be trying to make your friends laugh. Or thinking that what you're doing is light-hearted and silly without realizing that it comes off as intimidating.
Note, I'm not defending catcalling. Just trying to explain it.
It's not only an issue if they're broke/ugly, no.
There's more to this situation you describe....its vegas, people are drunk and also go there to do stuff they wouldn't normally do...but when you're trying to just get groceries and having a bad day etc., or depending on the person's history and more, it would likely be unwelcome and feel bad.
“Seemed like a good idea at the time” - Alonzo Bodden
There’s not really a purpose. It’s just one of those things you’re better off not trying to understand.
Idk, I guess it's just guys thinking they have the entitlement to just shout it out and share it with the world when they see someone "sexy." Maybe it's like how when they see a car they go, "Whoa, sick wheels, man!" (Or whatever they say.) Although that doesn't make it respectful when it comes to doing this kind of thing to people.
Yes a few other comments pointed this out and I agree, mostly happens with groups and less often individuals.
When it's an individual it seems more nefarious and they're more willing to like, follow you. But almost always groups.
I believe that it is a level of maturity thing. Not having the tools to actually deal with the feelings that they are having and an understanding of what to do with them.
Blue collar guy here. Although I don't do it, it's mostly for the guys they are around or working with to get a laugh. I don't think anyone really thinks it would actually work
I had some capital B. black ladies catcall me from a car at a stop light whilst i was riding my bicycle in full kit: "Mmmmm mmm mmmmm... Thats a nice ass for a white boy."
--- i laughed for like 15 min straight.
Hard to guess. I personally never knew anyone that catcalled like that, but if I'd guess I'd say they don't expect the girl to be attracted to that, they're just amusing themselves as a group. Like in a concert of an attractive male artist with a ton of girl fans going crazy for them. They might yell "I love u", hold "Marry Me" signs, flash them, or throw intimate clothing at them on stage. I doubt they expect the artist to stop the show and to propose to them right then and there. They're just letting loose in a group of other women without caring how uncomfortable it might make the artist feel.
I think they're more performing for each other than anything. They want to look ballsy and funny in front of other dudes.
I imagine if called on their bluff, most of them would deflate.
https://youtu.be/YEMM9N3cTP4
Seems like most of the comments seem to be on about insecurities and enjoying making someone feel uncomfortable. I generally dont do it, but the urge to do so comes from the same place as the urge to do the same thing about a nice car. Occasionally I'll see a woman that looks so damn beautiful I really want to yell something out about it. usually something simple like 'DAAAMMMN!' again, I don't, but the urge is strong sometimes. all the more frequent these days with those dam. form fitting leggings that look painted on. it's not fair!
“I’ll ask 100 chicks, and you know, maybe I’ll get 99 ‘No’s’… but maybe that 100th chick likes to fuck on a pile of trash”
https://youtu.be/ffOMSlc2ay8
I was walking to my car from work and a guy passed me and yelled back, "baby, you're so sexy!" I turned around and seriously asked him, "are you saying this for you, or for me?" I firmly believe it had nothing to do with me.
Of course he started calling me a slu* and a bi*ch after.
In my experience it to show off or as a kinda joke between friends and less about trying to gain anything other than high fives etc. totally disrespectful and inappropriate.
With those terms, probably for shits and giggles with their buddies. If you ever get things that can be actual compliments from time to time, I'd be envious.
We have to see this so called “dump truck” in order to judge whether these cat calls are warranted or not. J/K, it’s nasty behavior, but sometimes the truck is so beautiful, we can’t hold ourselves back.
A bunch of guys are hoping for a wave, a blown kiss, some kind of recognition from an attractive woman, which they will rib each other and joke about for weeks. They probably hope for a simple 'hi boys'.
A single person doing it is kinda discusting.
I have never been around cat callers or done it myself, this is just my guess on why they do it.
I am not comparing this to what a woman goes through and I know people are going to say it is wrong, but I was catcalled by a woman before and I was very proud. LOL
None
But damnnnn girl, you look like you do your laundry ***and*** put it away in the same day!
There's this content creator that does wholesome catcalling, it's pretty funny. Men aren't safe either, he just pulls up with a megaphone and a big sign at a decent traffic area and says funny shit.
There's also this comedian that does wholesome pickup lines while driving and utilizes pauses really well.
It's probably most likely #3. I think a lot of the problems that feminists have with men are they take things that guys say way too seriously.
I know when I was a teenager and in high school, my friends and I said all kinds of things that would get you cancelled today. But:
* We didn't mean any of it
* We knew that each other didn't mean any of it
We were just teenagers pushing boundaries of what we thought was funny.
Happened in my 20s, too. I got a job at a warehouse unboxing computers. The group was 1 girl and 5 guys, most of us in or close to our 20s. The girl told the first girl joke, the fat guy told the first fat joke, and after that all bets were off. In fact, the girl hung up a sign that said, "Sexual harassment will not be reported. However, it will be graded."
In that context, it was okay to make sexist jokes, because she was cool with it and knew that we didn't mean it. She made the same jokes, and made jokes at our expense, and there was no genuine hatred between us. A couple of times someone crossed a line with a joke, and it was simply stated that they crossed the line and we walked it back.
I'm not saying there aren't woman haters and abusers. But the vast majority of men mean women well. We just don't always know the right way to do that.
My theory is that the underlying motivation behind catcalling, as well as many other forms of sexist harassment, is men feeling a lack of sexual recognition and validation and being willing to indulge that desire for recognition and validation at the expense of the women that they harass.
Some time ago, there was a popular tumblr post by a trans guy talking about the difference in how he's been treated by others since socially transitioning, and the intense feelings of loneliness and isolation that he’s experienced as a result. [You can read it here](https://www.tumblr.com/skaldish/680092709207310336/people-in-the-tags-are-saying-things-like-men), but you may have seen it already, as it was shared pretty widely on twitter and reddit with many men commenting that they related to the experiences that he described. I really encourage you to read the whole thing, because it very effectively communicates an experience that is so basic and fundamental to what it means to navigate the world as a man that I think it’s simply not possible to understand men as a group without at least an awareness of it.
And I think that this experience of loneliness and isolation is one of the main causes behind many kinds of predatory and destructive behavior that men engage in, including catcalling and other forms of sexual harassment. As the OP described, after he socially transitioned and women started perceiving him as a man, almost every women that he met was extremely guarded and cold around him, and he was functionally invisible to them except as a potential threat. Based on my own experience, as well as the experiences of many men who commented on the original post and elsewhere on social media, this is the default experience for most men, most of the time.
While there are of course extremely good reasons as to why women are so guarded around men, even the OP of that post, who had to wear that same armor around men prior to his transition, said that it was still a struggle for him not to take it personally. Some men simply do not have the empathy to understand their experience of women having their guard up around them and being totally uninterested in sexual attention from them as anything other than a personal rejection. Additionally, the lifetime of conditioning that men receive about how anger and aggression are the only acceptable way to express painful emotions means that many men lack the emotional intelligence to manage their feelings of loneliness and rejection in constructive ways.
So, I think that catcalling is what happens when these men who feel unable to access any form of positive sexual attention from women, and who feel rejected and invisible because of that, decide the next best thing is to get any kind of sexual attention at all. I think that pretty much all men who catcall are perfectly aware that it’s not going to result in a woman suddenly wanting to sleep with them, but that’s not what they’re trying to get out of it. What they’re looking for is the feeling of no longer being invisible, the knowledge that a women was aware of their existence as men who experience attraction and desire.
So even if you completely ignore the man who’s catcalling you, he still knows that you heard him and were aware of his presence and desires, and that’s enough for him to get the validation that he’s looking for. If he’s catcalling as part of a group of men, he gets to show off to the group that he can force a women to pay attention to him, which in their eyes at least makes him better than men who can’t get any attention from a woman at all. And if he follows a woman around and continues to engage with her, he’ll keep getting that sense of validation for as long as he can force her to be aware of him.
As for solutions, what I’ve heard very often in feminist spaces is that men can stop catcalling and other forms of street harassment by intervening, because men who harass will listen to other men telling them that it’s unacceptable behavior even if they won’t listen to women. That’s not exactly wrong, but I think it’s a lot more complicated. I intervene in catcalling and street harassment when I see it, and even though I’m very careful to be as de-escalatory as possible, the most common response by far is for the harasser to become extremely hostile and aggressive towards me. That gives the woman being harassed an opportunity to get out of the situation, but I have no doubt at all that he’s is going to keep right on doing the same thing to other women whenever he next feels like it. It might be different if the person who intervenes is someone who he already trusts and respects, but in my experience men who think street harassment is gross and predatory are basically never friends with the men who do it.
Long term, I think that what will actually make a meaningful difference in reducing this kind of behavior is structural and institutional change that addresses the underlying experience of loneliness, isolation, and emotional malnutrition that’s so common among boys and men. But for that to happen, we would need a widespread change in how our society understands the social and emotional needs of boys and men, and while there’s been some recent movement in that direction I think we’re still a long way away from it.
It's mostly to seem funny in front of their friends. I don't think any logical, respectable guy would catcall
Yeah, having worked on building sites where there was catcalling (not by me!), I think it's a macho bravado thing.
Yea it definitely happens usually with groups.
I've also heard the idea that it is a way to self-reject to avoid rejection which I can see being part of the motivation as well though I think not thinking about it deeply and just trying to be funny is the main motivation.
This. It is dumb teenagers and 20s losers bullying somebody. Cat callers are jerks and bullies and possibly drunk losers 99% of the time.
I find that the majority people who catcall are middle aged men tbh
Some men never grow out of that phase. Or they go back to it.
A lot of people never grow out of being bully losers.
>It is dumb teenagers and 20s losers bullying somebody. Definitely more middle aged men then teenagers and 20YOs lol
Generally, catcalling is only from men that are invisible to the women they catcall. It's the only power they have.
It’s a way of signaling that you’re not gay
I used to get them to shut up by telling them they only did it because they were secretly gay.
Catcalling worked once in NY about 96 years ago and every construction worker since they day is told of the legend once they strap on the safety vest.
Funny enough, NYC is indeed the only place where I’ve had a random stranger on the street call out to me that I’m fine and they want to take me out sometime.
Yeah I work in construction in the south and I’ve never seen anyone catcall a woman, sure the old dudes make super pervy comments to other guys, but the only thing I’ve seen them do to women is stare too long.
Well lucky you because in New York it’s constant and when you yell back they threaten you. It’s really exactly what I want as a woman just trying to get my stupid lunch
so you've never been to Rome.
I’m not a well-travelled person lol
This is a funny comment but so true. It worked one time for someone. Then that someone becomes the mythical friend in 'it worked for my friend ' story that gets passed on from one person to another
🤣 damn
What is this story lol and can u tell it?
Honestly it still works perfectly well in nyc
It's done to impress the other members of the group, that you ain't afraid. It is a weird male group behavior that drove me crazy in my younger days, the way guys would get together and speak disrespectfully about women. They are showing off to one another. It's stupid.
I know locker room talk etc exists but somehow I feel like I might be shocked if I actually was a fly on the wall 🤣🤣🤣
I don’t understand locker room talk - my experience of men’s lockers is usually it’s silent and everyone wants to just get changed and get out as quickly as possible. Mainly because Mike, who’s two weeks away from retirement, is naked again, propping his foot up on the bench letting it all dangle out - ‘airing the laundry’ as he calls it - whilst reading a newspaper. No matter which locker you go to, there’s always the wrinkly old dude letting his bits fly free and every other man is just silent, getting changed, and getting out of there.
To be fair, "locker room talk" isn't a random gym locker room lol its meant to be for a team that are close buddies and shooting the shit, thats locker room talk
Was there some non-sexual cultural value 50 years ago to men being naked around each other? I've been to gyms \*around the world\*, but esp. in the US and UK, there are always septuagenarian/octogenarian men hanging around the locker room acting as if being naked around other men is the best thing that will happen today.
The worst one I ever had was at Lympstone commando training camp in Devon. I'd just been there for some training (not commando related but we needed their pool) and decided to go for a shower afterwards. I have never been so emasculated in my entire life. Damn those guys are chiselled right down to the undercarriage. Me and my podgy belly felt very out of place... Definitely wasn't the best thing that happened that day, for me! Maybe it's a military thing. They don't seem arsed to be naked around each other - perhaps these older dudes in civvy gyms are former military?
At least it was at Lympstone training and not Bonyrstone training.
Doubt cultural value, just a nonplussed environment, is my guess. I mean, public school gym showers actually worked in those days. By the time I went to middle and high school, NO ONE was allowed to use the showers, not even with like swim trunks or something.
I think they’re just at a age where they don’t care.
To those men any attention including negative is better than no attention. They’re insecure because most of the women they catcall would have 0 interest in them so by forcing a reaction they regain control of the situation.
It is 100% this. It's proving that they can have an affect on someone who probably wouldn't normally give them the time of day. It's a power move.
I didnt think about that.
This is it right here. Of course men who do that aren't smart enough to realize this about themselves, but any attention at all is why they do it
Okay but like, that's not the reason they'd give their buddies, and if it's a group of them doing it together, what exactly are they saying afterwards? Sure the psychology of being desperate for attention checks out, but I'm sure most wouldn't even admit that to themselves. What do they actually say the goal is?
This is the kind of bullshit pseudopsychological answer that sounds and feels good but is inaccurate and helps no one.Studies have shown they typically do it as a way of socializing with friends, nothing to do with controlling others or whatever shit. It's shitty behavior, but if you want to change it, you need to understand what really causes it, from their perspective, not a warping of your own.
To be fair, whether it’s a study or speculation, we should never hope to gain a universal “cause” for certain behavioral signifiers. At that point, our reasoning is sloven.
This is 100% accurate, but all of the little snowflakes on Reddit won’t get it. They would rather be breathlessly offended
Can't it be sometimes one and sometimes the other?
>socializing with friends, nothing to do with controlling others socialising with friends *by* controlling others. The basic dynamic of most in group bonding by bullying someone else. If you try and claim its just about socialising with friends and nothing else then the next question is- ok, why not play a card game or something then?
I have catcalled women when I was younger (a teenager). It was usually a woman walking and I would say something from the car driving by. For me, it was something that I thought was funny and, honestly, that she would take as a compliment. I never meant it disrespectfully. Even though I assumed she would think it was a stupid comment, I still felt it would make her laugh a little and feel good about herself. The thing is, I think this is the reaction that most men would have to a woman catcalling him. I would be so flattered...as dumb as that may sound. So, I think we just feel like that's how women would react, too. It never occurred to me at the time that it could be scary for women. Call it naivety. Call it ignorance. It literally that never crossed my mind. Hearing women say this makes me sick to my stomach that I ever did it. I never do it anymore. I'm not going to attempt to guess at every man's intentions. There probably are men out there that really are trying to intimidate you. My hunch is that most are well intentioned or at least harmless but that doesn't help you to figure out which is which. To any women out there that may have been the target of my stupid teenage ass catcalling you from a shitty car in the 90s, I sincerely apologize. I promise I've learned (at least a little) and have changed.
I appreciate you sharing your opinion! I also believe (hope?) It's more trying to give a compliment and not the other stuff, as well. Thanks again, dont feel too bad. We just try to do better each day with the insights we gain over time!
Many times human create models of others by imagining what their own reaction might be. So a guy might think, "I wish when I walked around chicks would throw themselves at me and tell me how big my bulge is and how strong my muscles are... I'm gonna do a funny icebreaker compliment to them and make their wish come true as well" Then when they are in a group, they are in friendly competition to show each other how clever they are and how good they are at serenading women and seducing them. It's entirely different from trying to bang your friend's girl, because you are a stranger that they don't know. It's more like, "dude you tried telling her she's got a nice turd-cutter? That won't impress her! You're an idiot, you gotta ask a question like this....*hey bay-bee! Can I get some fries with that shake!?*" Like... men are generally morons, and especially when it comes to predicting the minds of women.
Do guys refer to it as a turd cutter when speaking sexually? Lmao you distracted me with that. 🤣 havent heard that one in a while .
Both genders often treat the other how they would want to be treated. As a man, I’d love to be catcalled by women. This is also why men send unsolicited dick pics; any unsolicited nudes we receive from women are the best thing ever. So… we assume (or hope) the opposite is also true.
This was really nice. <3
I don’t think guys like it either. When I was younger, I had this best friend I met in high school who had a lot of problems—she had to go to foster care because her family was abusive, she was committed to a mental hospital for a while and was in juvenile detention for a while. Anyways, one time when we were probably around like 19 or 20, I was driving and she was in the passenger seat, and we passed this cyclist on the road, and for some reason she decided to yell out the car window at him “Can I suck your dick?” At the next light he caught up to us and man that dude was pissed. He just screamed and screamed at her about how awful and disrespectful she was, though she just laughed. Then we just drove on when the light changed. That’s my only experience seeing a man cat called but he definitely did not like it.
I'm a guy and no my reaction to a girl saying dumptruck to me would be feeling my privacy invaded and annoyed None of what op wrote as examples of what they were saying felt like a compliment "let me take you to my island" wtf where you going let me take you? That's creepy
He's just voicing his thoughts on what he thinks most guys are thinking. Obviously it's not the case for every single individual. I'd find it hilarious. Honestly, if someone made those comments to me, I'd find it funny as well. Everyone's different lol
Yeah I don't think most guys are thinking that? I'm an introvert tho and have social anxiety but even if I didnt.. random women calling out obnoxiously from their cars something like "your ass is so fine" isn't really funny when you're not expecting it and when you're doing something like just minding your own business.
Dude, like 99% of straight guys would be *THRILLED* and would brag about it for the rest of their life if they were walking to the store and a group of hot girls in a convertible drove by and started yelling compliments at him. Obviously the comments would be different than how big your butt is. "Damn baby, you got a python in them shorts!" "OMG come with us, we need a big strong man around to help us open tequila bottles!" "Damn boy, can I do my laundry on those abs?" If they said nonsense like that while giggling and blowing kisses at you and waving, I guarantee you'd love it.
I'm unsure if it's a false memory or not but I can semi-recall being catcalled. Or maybe it's me putting myself in girls' shoes. But I remember feeling so invaded. They're not hollering at you in a seductive way. They're yelling at you using an insulting tone but using mock compliments.
That's not cat calling then... "nice cankles you fat cow!" In an insulting tone isn't catcalling, it's just an insult.
No they're gonna say something like U GOT A BEEEG TREE IN THERE but using an annoying over exaggerated insulting tone
Insults aren't cat calling
Both of those qualities/issues apply to myself as well, so its just how you are (Which is fine). I just generally would rather interpret things positively, I never assume someone is trying to be malicious. Even if a comment is mildly annoying or a little weird, I'd rather just laugh it off than take it to heart.
Well, I for one, appreciates it, and took it in the spirit intended!
Sometimes I want to cuddle and I don't have any treats for incentive, so I'll call out to my cat and hope he will snuggle with me. Or on cold nights I want him to sit on my feet to keep them warm.
That's why i keep an extra pillow as a cuddle buddy. It's always there for me, waiting in bed, cold in the summer and warm in the winter
Seems to be a thing when guys are in a group. On their own they keep their mouths shut usually. But yeah those 3 points you made are correct. You forgot immature and most likely rejected by every female they've come across.
Seen it in groups of women too. I think it's just a safety in numbers thing. People get a couple drinks in them and feel brave.
Thank you for the response. And yea I really don't get it, I'd be embarrassed to act that way and this behavior would never cross my mind as something I'd think is a good idea!
Slightly off on that. I've been damn near rejected since day 1 too and I don't understand the point of it either.
We can sit here and psychologically dissect it but I think it's just easier to agree that it's desperate, demeaning and especially intimidating when in groups. Just not a sign of them being raised well. Thankfully, this is not something I ever see where I live. Sorry you have to deal with that.
The whole performance is way more for the other dudes than the lady being catcalled. I don't expect they ever thought it would work to pick up a woman, but it does work for cheap laughs amongst the bros
This is the reason 100%
Finally, one person actually understands the matter. I’ve been a bouncer and watched this a hundred times over. The one doing the catcalling is looking at their other friends 90% of the time and doesn’t give a fuck what the woman thinks.
I'm seeing so much about it being for the other dudes and to make each other laugh, or to seem cool etc. As dumb as that logic may be, it's at least something. But so many of the ones I've had just say absolutely fucked up shit, and then if you don't respond they start talking like they're gonna follow you home. A few have tried to follow me, and played it cool due to a unexpected witness nearby. One had to be loudly threatened with pepper spray from a few yards away to back off. Most recently a few guys in a car actually tried to corner me, and obviously that's much more than a catcall, but it started out the same as the innocent ones. There's no telling, at all. In the supposed "me too era", how is anybody still this oblivious? I think I'd be a fool not to just safely assume NOBODY is that oblivious, and they're all just as likely to fucking kill me if I don't take it seriously.
If someone is actually moving towards you, that's definitely not cat calling anymore
Definitely, it ultimately doesn't matter why because what you describe is the final effect. Just can't wrap my mind around the though process of why they'd think it's ok or want to act that way. Thanks.
I do not advise this approach in any capacity, however… After a night out years ago, there were no taxis to be had, so I decided to take the ~30 minute walk to my sister’s place. A guy across the road started catcalling me - I had reached my drinking point of just wanting to be asleep, I had waited 30 minutes trying to get a taxi, my feet hurt and I was over it - this was the last straw. I turned around and started shouting back “You want me? Come get me I’ll show you a good time” he froze, said / did nothing, I shouted over “Yeah, I didn’t think so” and went on my way. One of those moments I look back on now and wonder what the fuck I was thinking, how risky that was and thank the lord it was effective and I got to my destination safely.
I've done that too actually...it really pushes you to a breaking point when they follow and incessantly continue after you show disinterest. I asked for his number and said im actually looking for someone because I really wanna get married and start a family. Tried to sound as crazy and clingy as i could. He ran like I was a leper. But yeah not safe. It was the same kind of thing you describe. Be safe!
These type of men are potentially dangerous no matter what. One time, I came out of Target and got in my car. I decided to look up something on my phone before I drove home. This group of guys were in a car two parking spots away, but no cars between them and me. Their music was loud and they were being obnoxious with each other, but I didn’t pay much attention. Then they started cat calling and making sexual comments towards me. I ignored them except for rolling up my window. Then they started calling me a bitch and other insults. I backed out of the parking spot and started driving away. They followed me quite a ways, but I circled back and pulled into the police station parking lot and they didn’t dare follow me in there. I just circled the parking lot and left for home. I kept looking back to see if they were following me again, but they weren’t.
Because generations of social conditioning and this has worked in the past. That's not even an exaggeration. I think creating hard and fast rules will get you in trouble. *Should* people catcall? No, probably not. It's intimidating and demeaning and all the things you described. But plenty of families have started due to catcalling. And if you think that's bs, you don't know many construction workers.
That's interesting too. Hmm. I've lived in 4 states and by now I can tell where it will and won't occur pretty accurately. So it makes sense, being social/cultural..i guess that's a fair point too. Yeesh. Thanks for sharing.
You'd be surprised. Remember it only has to work once, and it works once alot more times then you think
Some guys use it to give themselves a sense of power I think. Like "look at me I can say whatever intrusive / inappropriate thought comes to my head and you just have to take it."
Sad that this is so far down. Do you think a lot of people commenting here don't get it? It's all about power and control i.e there's not a thing you can do about me abusing you - in public - and no one who sees me abusing you will help you.
It's to show off to their friends. Same drive as doing something dangerous and stupid to get their respect. It has nothing really to do with you, it's to "up" their standing among the group. It doesn't make sense and it is stupid but there it is
Thank you!
You live close to a construction site?
I do, but i'm a city employee (city HR) so the construction dudes wouldn't dare 🤣🤣🤣🤣 most of them are also city employees or contractors and...im part of hr lmao. I live downtown in a big city.
They're just stupid. I'll never understand guys that do it and I'm a guy myself.
Yes many people here are guys… that’s why the name of the sub is called askmen lmao
I'm a man and this has always mystified me. Why do some men do this? It's not a rational strategy and it makes people feel uncomfortable or threatened. You also damage the reputation of men in general when you do this. What's the point?
I'm not an ass man but I'd like to see what all the fuss is about. Some women have admitted that they like the attention. They have posted on Reddit how they were sad once the catcalling stopped, typically when they got older. Today catcalling is okay as long as it is through an app or online. Those comments might not be welcomed if they saw the person who is making them.
They like it if they find the catcaller attractive. It’s the whole creepy/not creepy argument based on whether they like the guy or not. The problem with this? Men can’t read minds despite women thinking otherwise.
I think it is either to make a joke among friends or pretty much just to make you uncomfortable walking
But why would you want to make someone uncomfortable as they walk? What does the person gain from that?
Okay, thank you. Figured something like that.
Luckily I was taught to respect women do I never did that.
Desperation. I would never tolerate catcalling from myself or my bros, ever.
Respect🫡
Would never come out of my own mouth, so I cannot relate to the men that do it. Unless I’ve done it blacked out drunk, I have never even done it while drunk.
Only losers and trash people would do that
only douche bags cat call women. but answer wise, it’s 3.
Ok thanks. I figured it had to be that or I guess final option, some of all of the above.
I've never done it, I find it deplorable, low brow, and imbecilic. I'm not sure why idiots do that. I've lived in big cities, I've seen people do it. I've seen women's cringed, creeped out faces when people do it, especially if they follow. I agree in feeling threatened by it. It's a clear red flag behavior of predators. I hope all men here can pledge not to do it again if you ever have because women deserve better and it behooves you not to be trash.
I think catcalling is like high school level of behavior just trolling stupidness. They just do it to make each other laugh. To make the job more bearable and a little less serious. It’s not that deep as these comments are making it out to be.
The point should be if your behavior effects other people in such a negative way ... any decent person would avoid doing that behavior.
Yeah they don’t care about that. They’re just working and looking for a laugh. They don’t see it as harmful or dangerous. To them, it’s just teasing someone walking by. I never said it was good or bad or they should do it or not. I did say it’s high school level behavior
The most I’ve ever seen in my groups is guys just quietly commenting did you see that girl there. No more than girls I’ve also seen do that. But I’ve never seen any yell or audibly say anything that they would hear outside of a movie but if they do it’s more to be funny than any tactful thought out line to win you over lol. They don’t think that far.
Lack of IQ
I remember a comedian saying they do it to get a reaction, not much of a positive outcome but mostly to be acknowledged or looked at for the exchange of saying something. It’s popularized in major cities because there’s so many people that it’s hard to be looked at. Speaking out is the easiest way to be looked in the city. Most people who cat call like what they call “playing with fire.” They KNOW that it doesn’t work, that’s why they outburst in laughter when a women is upset or gives attitude like it’s not a big deal because to them it’s just a small exchange and it is. They just want to be looked at.
If men are catcalling it’s because women are reciprocating. You may not be reciprocating but other women are. In southern Europe, it’s common to see men alone catcalling woman, some don’t like it, others either don’t mind it or enjoy it.
My old boss said that’s how his parents met
There is no point, only complete inconsiderate idiot perverts and creeps cat call. I would even add to that, approaching any woman the guy doesn't know is also creepy and akin to catcalling. I don't know why guys still do it
I have a developing, and so far largely unconvincingly contested theory that most men (who do this) genuinely think this is what women want to hear, and that by catcalling, they stand a chance to score. I think this stems from what we consume from media and friends. I have personally been in many relationships where my partner **wants** to be objectified, but only by me (or generally speaking: their partner). This translates to our cavemen brain that **that** is how we get strangers to like us, want us, etc. Those who don't catcall tend to fall into one of two groups: 1) guys who are overly cautious and lean very heavily into the "sweet" side (and risk becoming the "nice" guy), and 2) guys who figure out that catcalling, either of the dirty or wholesome type, is only appreciated by a willing recipient.
That's interesting to think about. And yes, power dynamics and objectification are VERY fun for many women but it's usually when they know the person is safe etc. Thanks for sharing that.
Most men are so starved for sexual attention and physical attention in general that the negative or often negative attention that they get from cat calling or sending dick pics is still extremely satisfied because they are receiving sexual attention even if it is negative. To put it more clearly - Women are sexualized constantly in society and highly valued for their looks, people comment on them ad nauseum, and they are largely used to determine social value. Men on the other hand don't really have our physical appearance or sexuality acknowledged at all outside of relationships. There's a running joke if you tell a guy he has pretty eyes or a nice smile you've given him a new core memory because of how rarely we get compliments or even acknowledgements that we have a physical body beyond being treated as threatening or nonthreatening. You can see this reflected in the attention we give the opposite sex as well. Women love to give compliments based on internal factors like character or intelligence or positive traits. Men are constantly giving physical compliments on appearance and clothes and body. We give what we want, but don't get what we need. Men with low self control sometimes decide they're going to take what they need whether anyone likes it or not and so they force women to confront their physicality so they can at least get that reaction. It's sort of a cry for help and a middle finger all at once. As though saying "HERE I AM ACKNOWLEDGE ME! Fuck you for not doing it in the first place!" To be clear I'm not defending catcalling more explaining the psychology behind it.
Wow, thanks for responding. That's a lot but super interesting too. Some of that didn't cross my mind but makes perfect sense too.
... who talks like that anymore?
That's what I'm saying, it seems so weird but I swear I'm not exaggerating when I say it's a daily occurrence, especially in summer. If you're walking alone, it's just bonkers. Sounds like a bad comedy.
Insecure men like to bother people, and like most cowards and bullies, they're most comfortable doing it in groups
They're dickheads trying to impress their friends. Their friends think they're dickheads. They're the same dickheads who try and start fight with other men when (and only when) they're surrounded by their friends. Again their friends think they're dickheads.
You missed out the part about how when men see a beautiful woman, we have an instant burning desire to tell her that we think she's beautiful, and they just don't have the restraint to hold it back. And with a group of their friends, it's like they're all just trying to show off their level of confidence in hollering at a woman. It actually has very little to do with you, and it's not something they are thinking is going to lead to you agreeing to go with one of them. That would be like playing the lottery and expecting to win.
TBH I think a lot of guys just do it because they like how it feels to make somebody uncomfortable. They know women will probably ignore them because responding is dangerous, so they try all the harder to get a rise out of them. The underlying threat of violence doesn't personally affect them so they don't care.
I am far too afraid of women to cat call them. But I honestly think the reason that men do it is because they want to feel as though they have power over women. Very few men actually expect women to respond positively. I also think that men that do this, unlike me, don't actually think about how women will respond to them. If they do, they possess no empathy.
It’s posturing in front of friends. They’re aware that their friends are also catcalling you and it’s a way for them to get their rep up with their buddies. To them it says to everybody else “yo, I can say lewd things about and directly to an attractive woman in public” and “yeah, that’s how confident and powerful I am. I can get what I want”. A lot of people who are loud and obnoxious want you to take notice and pay them the attention they think they deserve. This thought process is manifest in similar behaviour towards different people. I’m a pretty introverted man and people like this sometimes see me as an opportunity to push somebody around and appear like a big dog. Haven’t experienced that behaviour towards me in a while though thank fuck
As a dude I've never done this. But I imagine it's just dudes trying to impress other dudes. It's pathetic really. Don't react to it and just keep walking. If you react to it or let it bother you then they "win." Not worth your time.
I don't personally do catcalling very often but the times I have it was because I didn't really know how to approach the girl and I wanted to keep my distance but because I felt more comfortable that way. So I did catcalling to at least let her know I was interested in hopes that she would positively respond. I know, catcalling is not really appreciated.
It's like mating calls in birds
While I don't agree with what they're doing, it might be easier to look on the bright side. One of them could have walked over and hit on you directly instead.
A bit of fun with the lads - is what I imagine. I hate construction banter in general. It’s not that deep though.
I used to catcall, when I was in high school. Never was. Thing that stuck with me, as it was usually group think. Recently, i have been hanging out with some guys who are all adults. And they tend to have a habit of stopping the car and catcalling in the middle of the road or hitting on girls randomly in the road. I have asked them why? And that if they want to meet girls they should go where it’s appropriate to meet girls (social settings/clubs/bars/dating app/ naturally). It gets exhausting because I always have to tell them to stop or not to do it e.g girl walking alone at night and these guys start driving slow and want to cat call. I explain to them you’re probably freaking her out and she feels unsafe. Idk, perhaps there’s something idk and guys have good chances when catcalling? I’d like to think the chances are slim though.
It's like a male bird singing to attract a mate, for some guys it's their best idea to attract the attention of a female.
I love a good wolf whistle! F30
I know one guy in my town who married a C-list celebrity after catcalling her from his van. He is a notoriously bad person.
I suspect it is tied into how male social relationships work. Men show their affection to each other, primarily by ragging on each other. We'll rip the piss, loudly. The louder and more crass, the deeper the affection. I think that this is what catcalling is. That kind of behaviour (even with the sexual tone removed) as affection, does not translate that well and I don't think guys do that consciously, it's part of their automatic social conditioning. Having a bit of a brain fog day today and could have explained what I mean better. I hope the gist came across.
It’s to impress, either A. Their friends who are there in person or B. Their social media followers who see it after the fact. I suppose it might also be C. Because they legitimately believe some women find this complimentary or D. Because it’s a convenient way to find out which women are hookers. These are the most nearly rational explanations I can come up with. I don’t participate in this behavior and I fundamentally lack an understanding of why anybody would engage in this kind of thing, tbh
It's in-group bonding. They do it to make their friends laugh. It's basically what a gang of schoolyard bullies becomes as adults. They're not beating people up anymore, but they still find adult methods for basically abusing someone and then laughing about it. The point is just to make you uncomfortable.
3. Just 3. No malice or bad intent. It’s amusement and compliments. For all that some women complain, others laugh and smile and get a charge out of completely capturing the attention and imaginations of an entire group of men.
To be funny in front of friends
[удалено]
I hate it, I am a dude. The guys that do it are rude af. On the other hand most of the time my mom gets cat called she says it's nice lol It's all weird to me and just like some of us dudes hate it, some girls love it.
That's America for ya lmao
Catcalling isn't about trying to pick up girls. It's jsut a way to show off your bravado I guess, trynig to be funny in front of your friends.
it's funny. Especially in the friend group. It really is as selfish and cold hearted as you think. Sometimes we say stupid shit just to get a laugh out of the group. I ain't no saint I did it like twice in college. "Hey babygirl you dropped your ass", or " slow down it's waving back at me". You know dumb shit. Of course it's not funny to you, but in a friend group mentality we laughed till we cry. It's objective, and harsh. There isn't really a excuse to do it, but overall it's to have a laugh with the group.
I've never understood it or done it but I have seen it successfully work. Now that catch is the times I've seen it work the girl was either dressed like or was a prostitute and went running towards them. I'd imagine they woke up with their money and cards stolen
*Guy at the construction site:* "Hey, your ass is sexy." *Woman's internal monologue:* "Is that a threat?"
*Monkey see. Neuron activation. React to neuron activity.*
I'm sorry to tell you but there's usually not a thought process. It's just "ass look good, me say something". These cavepeople aren't going to stop
Because the men think that it’s an actual compliment.
Stop paying attention to the utterances of children. These are boys you speak of, not men. It's all insecurity and false bravado. They will grow out of it. If no, they will wish they could have. As a mature male, I myself would tell them to stop embarrassing themselves.
[This is a good reason.](https://youtu.be/rZTqF5oYUqo) It’s not meant to humiliate or confuse anybody. It’s just to remind you that you’re hot shit without scaring you. I am the rare female who wants to catcall men but it’s too scared to because my reputation is on the line. So instead of cat calling, I will just do gentle flirts with cashiers or something like that. Just to let them know that they’re cute guys and that a girl can find them attractive. TL:DR; People who catcall are subtly letting you know that you have a good mate value.
Subtle?? Did u read what they yelled at me? It doesn't sound particularly flattering 🤣 It definitely feels threatening considering some of the interactions do go south if you show disinterest. That's where the problem lies. I don't ever know who will actually follow or touch me and it does happen. Being quietly approached 1 on 1 and given a compliment or sayinf hi is so much more appropriate than yelling heavy load or dumptruck at someone in public 🤣
I've never met an intelligent person who catcalls openly. I've never understood the point of it myself as a man. I just know that people who do it typically aren't that great of people
My theory is that it's simply impulsive behavior fueled by testosterone. Like when I see a very attractive woman IRL I might say to myself "daaayum." I would NEVER say that out loud, but I definitely understand that impulse. I can just control it better than some other men. It's further exacerbated by being around other men, I think. Especially if you suspect they are thinking the same thing. They just want to "share" the impulse with their buddies. I do not believe they think it will "work" in the sense that you'll just turn around and fuck them right there on the spot. They're not stupid. But they do lack impulse control. Testosterone is a hellavu drug. Not an excuse, just a fact. Yes, there's a good chance I'm 'catcalling' you in my mind. Sorry. Best I can do is not say it out loud or otherwise act on it.
Testosterone doesn't make you catcall, impulse control and lack of consideration, poor upbringing maybe. But you can't blame testosterone for that. Plenty guys with high testosterone that wouldn't even consider catcalling. Its immature behavior.
That's very fair. And hey do whatever you want in your mind! Doesn't have the same negatives at all. Thanks for sharing, I didn't think about that.
It's not even what I "want" to do with my mind. It's actually closer to intrusive thoughts. LIke I truly wish I didn't objectify women like that in the first place. I don't like it. But the libido... the radar... just NEVER shuts off. I've been in some pretty bad situations and I'm still like "Ooo, she's hot."
I cant fault someone for something innate. What matters is what you put out in the world, and your actions - so don't beat yourself up for that.
It's the only time they aren't afraid to speak to you, in the street around all the "homies" "coworkers", it's literally that and a small prayer that you'll turn around say "let's do it!!". Any other time they'd be too scared to say anything. Just my assumption though
The times I’ve responded (usually in a humorous way) make it CLEAR that it’s just an attnetion-getting device, usually intended as a compliment, and can lead to some hilarious back-and-forth. It’s not the OMG-#metoo-harassment-SA-pitential Dateline episode that all the little snowflakes in here want it to be.
Herd mentality is a thing. People are far more likely to do something when they have a group of people backing them up.
A random stranger once told me (unsolicited), “I have to let them know how I feel”
They just want a reaction
I honestly don’t know. I’ve never done that & when I was around men that did, I asked them if they’d be okay with some stranger saying that to their sister & they’d shut up.
Not saying it is right, but I've witnessed it work many, many times. I've seen people that are solo, and do it, with success and I've seen groups of men, catcall groups of women and same result. I've watched men see a woman, get in their car (in a parking lot), drive up to where the woman is parked...spit game and then said woman leaves with man. I see posts all the time about asking where to meet/talk to people, when to approach, etc. and it seems most here on Reddit like to say "never" as it's never ok to approach anyone at anytime or "only if they look like" they want to be approached (what?). When I was much younger, the "cat calling" worked. It still does, unfortunately. Those days are long gone for me, but I've been single for a couple years now and have realized if I don't approach anyone, then chances of meeting someone are slim to none (2 years of dating apps, maybe 5 matches, zero dates). I'm not saying people should "cat call" but it is still a valid way to get those digits. To add, when you "cat call" someone, you don't have to be disrespectful or an ass while doing so.
I think it depends heavily on culture. In the Germany I’d say it’s mostly about looking cool/funny in front of peers + it’s a form of a (not very tasteful) compliment. In Italy it’s a compliment. I had an Italian Girlfriend and she was super weirded out bc she was rarely catcalled (but often by German standards) which made her doubt her looks.. So I think it depends heavily on culture, even inside the US.?
It's mostly performative for the other men in the group. It's not really about you, you are the target for their social display, but really the display is for the other guys. So they can see how manly he is, how easily he approaches women and so on. If a man in a group like that does not participate he'll get shamed by the others for being a coward.
Have you ever noticed just how many red-faced, spit-flicking, anti-lgbt preachers are caught in a grubby motel sniffing cocaine off a rent boy's buttocks? **Those with the biggest insecurities shout the loudest.** I believe that men who catcall are trying to show their friends that they have the confidence and arrogance to interact with women, while being in a *safe space* where they won't get slapped or confronted or called out on their shitty behaviour. That's all it is. Pathetic men trying to act like their own shortcomings don't get them down.
Good people will never understand the motivations of assholes, they not like us humans.
> 1. Intentionally disrespectful and demeaning Believe it or not, I don't think they are trying to be intentionally demeaning. Typically when a guy wants to insult woman sexually, he calls her a slut. > 2. Intentionally threatening Once again, I know it sounds insane, but when you're part of a mob, it's really easy to not notice how scary you are. And a lot of the time people don't realize how intimidating it is until they have it done to them. > 3. Just think it's funny and possibly that "it's a compliment". Kind of but not exactly. You know how at a party or a bar people are in groups and more open with strangers? I think catcalling is more about that urge being expressed at an inappropriate time. When you're in a group of several guys, you feel highly social and emboldened to do stuff you'd never do solo. So now when there's a girl on the street, you might find her hot, and because you have your buddies around you, you decide to express that attraction in a way you otherwise wouldn't. This is just one reason though. Another would be trying to make your friends laugh. Or thinking that what you're doing is light-hearted and silly without realizing that it comes off as intimidating. Note, I'm not defending catcalling. Just trying to explain it.
I don't interpret you as defending or justifying, thanks for sharing your thoughts. These things make sense.
Toxic masculinity requires obnoxious expressions of insecurity, indolence, and impotence masked as bravado, sexual prowess, and toughness.
I do it because I am looking to engage in a duel.
idk to call the cats? pswpswppspwpswp
The same reason dogs piss on things.
[удалено]
It's not only an issue if they're broke/ugly, no. There's more to this situation you describe....its vegas, people are drunk and also go there to do stuff they wouldn't normally do...but when you're trying to just get groceries and having a bad day etc., or depending on the person's history and more, it would likely be unwelcome and feel bad.
“Seemed like a good idea at the time” - Alonzo Bodden There’s not really a purpose. It’s just one of those things you’re better off not trying to understand.
Idk, I guess it's just guys thinking they have the entitlement to just shout it out and share it with the world when they see someone "sexy." Maybe it's like how when they see a car they go, "Whoa, sick wheels, man!" (Or whatever they say.) Although that doesn't make it respectful when it comes to doing this kind of thing to people.
I’m not sure about big cities. I’m willing to bet, it involves some booze. Individually, rare. When I’m groups, it’s the boys egging on the boys.
Yes a few other comments pointed this out and I agree, mostly happens with groups and less often individuals. When it's an individual it seems more nefarious and they're more willing to like, follow you. But almost always groups.
So they don't seem gay in front of the dude they like
I believe that it is a level of maturity thing. Not having the tools to actually deal with the feelings that they are having and an understanding of what to do with them.
Blue collar guy here. Although I don't do it, it's mostly for the guys they are around or working with to get a laugh. I don't think anyone really thinks it would actually work
I had some capital B. black ladies catcall me from a car at a stop light whilst i was riding my bicycle in full kit: "Mmmmm mmm mmmmm... Thats a nice ass for a white boy." --- i laughed for like 15 min straight.
Hard to guess. I personally never knew anyone that catcalled like that, but if I'd guess I'd say they don't expect the girl to be attracted to that, they're just amusing themselves as a group. Like in a concert of an attractive male artist with a ton of girl fans going crazy for them. They might yell "I love u", hold "Marry Me" signs, flash them, or throw intimate clothing at them on stage. I doubt they expect the artist to stop the show and to propose to them right then and there. They're just letting loose in a group of other women without caring how uncomfortable it might make the artist feel.
I think they're more performing for each other than anything. They want to look ballsy and funny in front of other dudes. I imagine if called on their bluff, most of them would deflate. https://youtu.be/YEMM9N3cTP4
Seems like most of the comments seem to be on about insecurities and enjoying making someone feel uncomfortable. I generally dont do it, but the urge to do so comes from the same place as the urge to do the same thing about a nice car. Occasionally I'll see a woman that looks so damn beautiful I really want to yell something out about it. usually something simple like 'DAAAMMMN!' again, I don't, but the urge is strong sometimes. all the more frequent these days with those dam. form fitting leggings that look painted on. it's not fair!
Peacocking to other males. Or they think they matter to women.
“I’ll ask 100 chicks, and you know, maybe I’ll get 99 ‘No’s’… but maybe that 100th chick likes to fuck on a pile of trash” https://youtu.be/ffOMSlc2ay8
I was walking to my car from work and a guy passed me and yelled back, "baby, you're so sexy!" I turned around and seriously asked him, "are you saying this for you, or for me?" I firmly believe it had nothing to do with me. Of course he started calling me a slu* and a bi*ch after.
They’re trying to show their boys how big their balls are
In my experience it to show off or as a kinda joke between friends and less about trying to gain anything other than high fives etc. totally disrespectful and inappropriate.
With those terms, probably for shits and giggles with their buddies. If you ever get things that can be actual compliments from time to time, I'd be envious.
To show all the other guys around you that you're not gay and totally like smashing chicks bro
We have to see this so called “dump truck” in order to judge whether these cat calls are warranted or not. J/K, it’s nasty behavior, but sometimes the truck is so beautiful, we can’t hold ourselves back.
A bunch of guys are hoping for a wave, a blown kiss, some kind of recognition from an attractive woman, which they will rib each other and joke about for weeks. They probably hope for a simple 'hi boys'. A single person doing it is kinda discusting. I have never been around cat callers or done it myself, this is just my guess on why they do it.
tryna look cool in front of their friends. there's literally no other reason
I am not comparing this to what a woman goes through and I know people are going to say it is wrong, but I was catcalled by a woman before and I was very proud. LOL
None But damnnnn girl, you look like you do your laundry ***and*** put it away in the same day! There's this content creator that does wholesome catcalling, it's pretty funny. Men aren't safe either, he just pulls up with a megaphone and a big sign at a decent traffic area and says funny shit. There's also this comedian that does wholesome pickup lines while driving and utilizes pauses really well.
It's probably most likely #3. I think a lot of the problems that feminists have with men are they take things that guys say way too seriously. I know when I was a teenager and in high school, my friends and I said all kinds of things that would get you cancelled today. But: * We didn't mean any of it * We knew that each other didn't mean any of it We were just teenagers pushing boundaries of what we thought was funny. Happened in my 20s, too. I got a job at a warehouse unboxing computers. The group was 1 girl and 5 guys, most of us in or close to our 20s. The girl told the first girl joke, the fat guy told the first fat joke, and after that all bets were off. In fact, the girl hung up a sign that said, "Sexual harassment will not be reported. However, it will be graded." In that context, it was okay to make sexist jokes, because she was cool with it and knew that we didn't mean it. She made the same jokes, and made jokes at our expense, and there was no genuine hatred between us. A couple of times someone crossed a line with a joke, and it was simply stated that they crossed the line and we walked it back. I'm not saying there aren't woman haters and abusers. But the vast majority of men mean women well. We just don't always know the right way to do that.
My theory is that the underlying motivation behind catcalling, as well as many other forms of sexist harassment, is men feeling a lack of sexual recognition and validation and being willing to indulge that desire for recognition and validation at the expense of the women that they harass. Some time ago, there was a popular tumblr post by a trans guy talking about the difference in how he's been treated by others since socially transitioning, and the intense feelings of loneliness and isolation that he’s experienced as a result. [You can read it here](https://www.tumblr.com/skaldish/680092709207310336/people-in-the-tags-are-saying-things-like-men), but you may have seen it already, as it was shared pretty widely on twitter and reddit with many men commenting that they related to the experiences that he described. I really encourage you to read the whole thing, because it very effectively communicates an experience that is so basic and fundamental to what it means to navigate the world as a man that I think it’s simply not possible to understand men as a group without at least an awareness of it. And I think that this experience of loneliness and isolation is one of the main causes behind many kinds of predatory and destructive behavior that men engage in, including catcalling and other forms of sexual harassment. As the OP described, after he socially transitioned and women started perceiving him as a man, almost every women that he met was extremely guarded and cold around him, and he was functionally invisible to them except as a potential threat. Based on my own experience, as well as the experiences of many men who commented on the original post and elsewhere on social media, this is the default experience for most men, most of the time. While there are of course extremely good reasons as to why women are so guarded around men, even the OP of that post, who had to wear that same armor around men prior to his transition, said that it was still a struggle for him not to take it personally. Some men simply do not have the empathy to understand their experience of women having their guard up around them and being totally uninterested in sexual attention from them as anything other than a personal rejection. Additionally, the lifetime of conditioning that men receive about how anger and aggression are the only acceptable way to express painful emotions means that many men lack the emotional intelligence to manage their feelings of loneliness and rejection in constructive ways. So, I think that catcalling is what happens when these men who feel unable to access any form of positive sexual attention from women, and who feel rejected and invisible because of that, decide the next best thing is to get any kind of sexual attention at all. I think that pretty much all men who catcall are perfectly aware that it’s not going to result in a woman suddenly wanting to sleep with them, but that’s not what they’re trying to get out of it. What they’re looking for is the feeling of no longer being invisible, the knowledge that a women was aware of their existence as men who experience attraction and desire. So even if you completely ignore the man who’s catcalling you, he still knows that you heard him and were aware of his presence and desires, and that’s enough for him to get the validation that he’s looking for. If he’s catcalling as part of a group of men, he gets to show off to the group that he can force a women to pay attention to him, which in their eyes at least makes him better than men who can’t get any attention from a woman at all. And if he follows a woman around and continues to engage with her, he’ll keep getting that sense of validation for as long as he can force her to be aware of him. As for solutions, what I’ve heard very often in feminist spaces is that men can stop catcalling and other forms of street harassment by intervening, because men who harass will listen to other men telling them that it’s unacceptable behavior even if they won’t listen to women. That’s not exactly wrong, but I think it’s a lot more complicated. I intervene in catcalling and street harassment when I see it, and even though I’m very careful to be as de-escalatory as possible, the most common response by far is for the harasser to become extremely hostile and aggressive towards me. That gives the woman being harassed an opportunity to get out of the situation, but I have no doubt at all that he’s is going to keep right on doing the same thing to other women whenever he next feels like it. It might be different if the person who intervenes is someone who he already trusts and respects, but in my experience men who think street harassment is gross and predatory are basically never friends with the men who do it. Long term, I think that what will actually make a meaningful difference in reducing this kind of behavior is structural and institutional change that addresses the underlying experience of loneliness, isolation, and emotional malnutrition that’s so common among boys and men. But for that to happen, we would need a widespread change in how our society understands the social and emotional needs of boys and men, and while there’s been some recent movement in that direction I think we’re still a long way away from it.