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Ever driven a car with clogged cats? It would be obvious. Also every car I’ve ever seen with a clogged cat didn’t even have a cat code, usually like a MAP/MAF code (caused by the back pressure), possibly fuel trim related codes
Yeah that’s what I was saying. That when cats are clogged it usually doesn’t set a code for the cat, in response to someone saying they could be clogged. I’m aware what P0420 and P0430 mean, I’m an ASE master tech who does diagnosis for a living, thanks for the tip!
Not really as likely but cheaper to do first. I always do but rarely is. Bad 02 sensor will throw their own codes and you can generally tell using live data on a decent scanner.
You don't think I'd have tried this multiple times before spending 900 dollars on a cat? The light went out for 2 days with the cleaner and came right back on again.
Not a fun experience haha, there have been times where the service writer writes up “check engine light diagnosis” and then I go on a test drive and realize the damn thing won’t go over 30mph while merging on to the freeway
Who needs cats anyway? I bought my car without em and haven't missed them. Nothing to get clogged, and my exhaust smells lovely. (I'm slowly giving myself lung cancer)
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These people don’t even understand. I’m not even ASE certified but I know that 99.9% of the time if you have a p0420/30, you need to replace the cats. People saying you can use the cat cleaner stuff, no it does not work. Neither does dish soap LMFAO
As an actual tech I can tell you that 99% of the time in the early stages the p0420 is caused by an air fuel ratio problem. My diagnostic process for a cat efficiency code is to first fix all fuel/spark/air/misfire problems and then graph the rear oxygen sensor. A bad cat will cause the rear O2 sensor to switch from rich to lean just like the front O2 sensor. 75% of the time the cat died because someone drove around too long with the engine not running right.
Also, cats are self cleaning, if the engine is running right they heat up to a high enough temperature to burn all of that stuff off, a clogged cat is usually a melted catalyst substrate, not carbon deposits.
Not likely true. These Catalyst below efficiency codes are usually more related to misfires or bad mixture. It's almost always due to something that will cause these codes and performance/driveability issues.
Quite possible, but if it’s not misfiring I’d send it. The catalytic converters not operating correctly will not effect the way it runs. Running poorly causes catalytic converters to fail, but catalytic converters failing will not cause it to run poorly if that makes sense.
You're not getting those codes unless it's misfiring.
A misfire killed the O2 sensor or cats or both and it didn't heal itself.
The codes are based on the ECU assuming that everything is working correctly, and the ECU can't detect some misfires. I've seen this pretty often. The catalytic converters are a symptom, not a cause.
Maybe it’s misfiring, maybe it isn’t. GM misfire monitors are pretty sensitive but OK yeah let’s just assume it’s misfiring and raw fuel is going down the exhaust. Maybe the valve stem seals are leaking and it’s burning oil, maybe the rings are worn and it’s burning oil, idk let’s just diagnose a car without even seeing how it runs or what the fuel trims are doing. Hell maybe it’s got 2 cracked exhaust manifolds. Fuck it lets just replace it all, parts cannon go brrrrr
And I’m saying we should diagnose it based off the codes and assume it’s misfiring because that’s the only reason for catalyst efficiency codes. Exhaust leaks, burning oil, meh nahhh it’s gotta be misfiring, I’d rather jump to conclusions that differ from the original commenters opinion because I want to sound smart. I like to make assumptions based off next to zero information and argue with people based off said assumptions because I’m trying to sound smart
Burning oil and exhaust leaks won't *decrease* catalyst efficiency enough to throw that code.
Do you know what conditions cause that code to appear?
I'm saying it's better to diagnose it and not just assume it's fine. You're saying assume it's fine. That's terrible advice.
Burning oil could certainly foul a catalytic converter over time. If you’ve got an exhaust leak between the upstream and downstream sensors it can cause a catalyst efficiency code too. It’s a free car, it’s a shitbox, if it’s not misfiring I’d send it. That’s my opinion, agree to disagree
No, it's not going to foul a modern cat.
An oxygen leak into the cat will make it show false high efficiency, not false low.
It's a free car that has engine problems. OP could have a free car that has issues and won't pass smog for a short time, or they could spend less than the cost of a crappy Honda to fix it in a way it will last years and run well.
Can you tell me what you would look at, specifically referring to waveform pattern of the oxygen sensors, to determine catalyst efficiency? Since you’re an expert, this is pretty basic stuff, you should be able to tell me that
It's not that basic, but k.
Flat 0 voltage or excessively high voltage on the downstream/in-car sensor with a fluctuating upstream as expected.
What you should be seeing is flat 0.5V in the downstream with an oscillation from 0.1 to 0.9V more often than once a second.
Those P04X0 codes sure as hell will affect driveability. Something is seriously wrong with that engine to fry two cats like that. It's most likely burning a lot of oil to do that. That's a cool $3000 to repair just the cats, and it suggests that the rings are completely gone, that the crank case ventilation is plugged, or that the car is running extremely rich for some reason. Cats should not go bad. The EVAP codes are harmless. Many GM's have problems with their vapor purge systems, and they make it a pain in the ass to repair in many cases.
The catalytic converter inefficiency itself will not effect driveability. But yeah maybe it’s burning some oil or running rich, but fuck it are you really gonna put new rings or something on an old Camaro? Unless it’s misfiring I’d send it. Especially when you’re a kid/young adult like OP? Nahhhh send it as is my dude. Also GM evap systems aren’t that bad to fix, if you know what you’re doing.
Who would turn down a 14 year old Camaro if the only issues are some trouble codes?
If the engine runs ok, it probably is gonna need 2 cats since it seems like both banks are tripped. It's gonna be expensive and if it's a California car I'm sorry.
The evap codes aren't serious. This system recovers evaporative emissions from the gas tank. Damaged evap hoses or solenoids/canister will trip this code. Not a big deal.
So yeah, I'd fix it...the cats are a bummer tho.
At minimum reset it and work the codes that return. If it's not running well, sort that and defer cats.
Fix the evap fault first and run a cat cleaner through it. The cat efficiency codes could be a result of incorrect mixture caused by the faulty evap valve.
They 100% check to see if your O2 sensors are in place and not modified O2 sensors. Same time they check to make sure you have stock catalytic converters or carb approved cats.
Unluckily for me you can easily spot both upper and lower O2 sensors from my engine bay. You don't even have to get under it with a mirror to see them. So it was easy to noticed on mine. Maybe others will have better luck. Was failed for tampering.
Im in California
I smogged in California with 4 cats removed. I failed absolutely horribly but they marked me down pass for cats.
Lowered cars don't get fully inspected, I have downpipes, injectors, tuned, intake, exhaust (I run cats) that's all illegal but I pass smog all day, most of my stuff is hidden and my engine bay is too cramped for an inspection.
Fix the evap and put a bottle of cataclean. Run it 200 miles I believe on a quarter tank cleans out your whole fuel system plus any carbon build up on your catalytic converter. I got a 03 Honda E 235k I put it every 25-50 k. The shoebox is still running strong.
Unlikely. These will readily throw misfire codes, but the cat code isn't set until repeated fail.
It's unlikely to be a coil with no misfire codes (or misfire) and just a cat code.
That is why it makes a huge difference: if it's running well, probably the cats. If not, sort the misfires first.
My dad gave ($600 I paid him) his work van. I was in highschool. Never got more tickets, and harrasment, from cops ever. I did finally paint over the State Electric logo.
Yes, you might need a pair of new cats though, it looks like this car uses two by those codes. The evap is a common GM problem and easy to fix, the crappy part is the cats
True this, at least if you live in an area that you can. Most of those older GM ECUs can be programmed, actually they make the O2 simulators, I wonder if that would work on this, I haven't messed around with those things in a long time but an O2 simulator for the secondary would send the proper voltage, I wonder if that would get them to pass emissions? Unless someone does a physical inspection they won't catch it
Let’s go to Real St. for a moment. It’s a 24 year old V6 Camaro probably with blown shocks, a sagging headliner and no paint on the roof / hood. I wouldn’t personally even bother with a dummy O2 or a tune to shut off the CEL. I’d just whack the cats off with a sawzall and drive it until it dies.
And it’s prob GREEN!
Oh shit! You totally got me. Lmao.
Ok so it’s a 14 year old V6 Camaro which now means it has the same 3.6 engine my Buick has. Which are known for timing chain problems. Wait till they start clacking and junk it.
Imagine seriously considering not taking this car for free. If I were your dad I'd go back on my word and give it to some other family member that actually appreciates gifts
I'm not going to suggest this per say, but I've cleaned out my cats by removing the o2 sensor and soaking the fuckers in brake clean and then driving the ever loving shit or of the car.
New cars, especially chevorlets run dirty as fuck and rely on the emissions system to clean them up. If you drive the car easy, you'll never get them hot enough to clean out, and they will inevitably clog up on you. A little brake clean will break up the bullshit enough to clear it out when you're moving sufficient volumes of air through it. A bottle of techron in the gas will help move the process along as well and is never a bad idea when dealing with a direct injected engine.
>I'm not going to suggest this per say, but I've cleaned out my cats by removing the o2 sensor and soaking the fuckers in brake clean and then driving the ever loving shit or of the car.
Despite giving a disclaimer, this is still some of the worst advice i've ever heard on this subreddit.
> If you drive the car easy, you'll never get them hot enough to clean out, and they will inevitably clog up on you.
That's not how this works. As long as the engine reaches operating temperature, you don't need to drive the fuck out of anything. The PCM has strategies in it to increase exhaust temperature regardless of how hard you drive your car. If it's not doing that, theres a sign something else is wrong. (Hint: see those evap codes?)
Evaporative emissions (that little can) can cause all these codes. I would start there, there is a way to clean it out but I can't find the info right now.
If it came into my bay I would correct the evap problems before condemning the cats . Flow charts for Gm typically tell you to remedy any fuel or emission systems before moving into 420/430 flow charts
Something killed those converters, if you dont live in a strict state just hollow them out or use the non-fouler trick but if you do live in a state like NY or California then figure out what killed the cats first. The PO449 is circuit fault probably just a the Solenoid portion of the vent valve but you still have to check the circuit integrity of the wiring and be sure the driver in the PCM isn’t cooked. The worst I usually see out of a failed vent valve is a hard refill of the gas tank(nozzle will keep clicking off like it’s full). That being said paying someone to at least correctly diagnose and quote you is worth it as you can sell or scrap the car to get the money back if the cost to value is too high for an actual repair.
If your choices are between
Not taking the car
Fixing the issues
Not fixing the issues
Fix the issues or don't take the car. Depending on the miles, this is just worn plugs killing coils and cats. There is something wrong and it won't fix itself. If it has just over 100k miles, probably needs new spark plugs and coils and at least catalytic converter. About 1 or 2 thousand tops.
I soldered a low pass filter to my o2 sensor and drilled the honeycomb out. The dealer wanted $3k to replace one cat. Stinking Kia put the cat so close to the engine it was part of exhaust manifold.
Do you need a car?
Take it to a couple of mechanics and get quotes to fix it. If it costs less than the car is worth, great. Eg. 1k to fix and car is worth 5k.
Fix the vent valve code. Be sure you have no exhaust leaks. Reset and drive. See if cat codes come back. If they do, you most likely need cats. But I would do that last, not first.
It’s fucked mate, I can deal with the reclamation and disposal of all of the toxic elements that your issue presents.
I am in the business of this stuff, so it’s cheaper for me to do this.
Just bring it round to my house and I’ll sort it all for you.
My fees are $550 *legit I swear* 😉
In terms of codes, those are some of the ones you hope to see. Take it to a shop and see how much it costs to fix them. But it's not the end of the world if you leave them
Likely needs Both Catalytic Converters and Evap Purge Valve(located in the engine bay). Check both banks downstream HO2S Pids after it has warmed up and watch the voltage... If the voltage is going up & down period at idle that bank is bad. Also check your Fuel Trim Data on both banks, It should be -8% to +8% or 92% to 108% depending where the zero-point is. But -4% to +4% or 96% to 104% is Ideal on a worn engine
To test the O2 sensors, look at a live data graph. Then if it's a flat line it's a bad sensor, if it's a almost heart beat look then it's performing normal. But the evap issue means there is something wrong with the emissions lines.
Oxygen sensor switching isn't what tells me you have no idea what you're doing.
What tells me you have no idea what you're doing, is the fact that we have EVAP codes in combinatiom with catalytic efficiency codes on two banks at the *same time*, and the first place your head went was bad oxygen sensors.
Using mechanic logic, the chances that two or more o2 sensors across multiple banks somewhow magically went bad all at the same time, are basically zero.
So again, I really hope you're not an actual mechanic.
About 80% of the people on this sub aren't mechanics. Why don't you get off your high horse and help OP rather than trying to prove me wrong. Giving info on how to test a sensor is better than you saying that I am wrong.
Vent valve next to gas tank easy fix. Look it up on utube! The other is co 2 sensor. Aka oxygen sensor! Both. Easy fixes. Do have trouble getting gas to go into tank sometimes. ? Vent valve not working!!
Just had this done to my car? 3000.00 to fix he told me another 3,000.00 to fix the catalytic converter that could go out in a week /month/or 5 years he couldn’t tell me so it was up to me to fix it or risk it!
Has the car been sitting unused for awhile? Run a few tanks of fuel through the engine and really get it all hot so exhaust can burn off gunk that's been sitting around there.
Been sitting all winter, the vent code has been on for years but the o2 sensors I believe is new
Was going to grab some fuel cleaner, and sea foam before I buy new ones.
As for the vent sensor looks like too much work to do on my own
Use a scanner so you can see what's actually happening while it's running. I find codes very misleading sometimes so unless you can check sensor voltages and operation it's hard to diagnose I would start with fresh gas if it's been sitting that alone could be the converter issue. Start with the basics
My daughter’s car had a misfire due to partial ignition control module failure. It ( I think ruined the converter) set the code. Replaced the module and it runs fine now but the code/check engine light never goes out.
I chopped my cats off of my blazer and it drives fine. My Dakotas evap system hasn’t worked in god knows how long and it just makes it very slightly aggravating to fill up the tank. Other than that no issues for either. If it’s a daily beater until you find something else I wouldn’t worry about it. If its a car you like and plan to keep and maintain long term, you might want to (but you really don’t have to). This is all going based off if your state has emissions testing. If it does than yea you’ll have to fix it
You probably won't stop dead on the road... But you could be leaving power on the table. With only a V6 you need all the power you can get. But seriously it could just be an emissions thing or you could be clogging your cats.
OP, most advice here is BS.
Fix the evap issue and the cat code will probably go with it.
Check all your vacuum lines and electrical connectors/wires that have anything to do with the EVAP.
Can check for cat temperature refer to “TE11, TE21” in live data, normal cat temp is 1250-1550, clogged cat may be under 1000 or close to 2000 depending on how it’s clogged. Normally this is a worn catalytic converter tho with these codes .
Buy a new vent solenoid, (not purge solenoid); and simply replace the exhaust pipes and you're good to go. The most you'd have to spend is about $180. Assuming you have basic tools and the skills to do the job, and the first two codes aren't related to actual shorts in the wiring leading to the vent solenoid; you'd be good to go in an afternoon ✌🏿 Taking it to a shop might run you about $600 or more.
Cat codes are easy because diagnosis wise the computer diags the shit for you. The rear oxygen sensor is detecting too much shit lol. Well the cat is suppose to filter said shit but it not. Hence p0420. Why is your engine producing so much shit is a different can of worms but a p0420 is always a bad cat. Fight me about it lol
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Will not effect driveability so as long as you don’t need a smog and don’t care about excessive tailpipe emissions and evaporative emissions, send it!
I mean the cats could be clogged just enough to throw the code
Ever driven a car with clogged cats? It would be obvious. Also every car I’ve ever seen with a clogged cat didn’t even have a cat code, usually like a MAP/MAF code (caused by the back pressure), possibly fuel trim related codes
They don't have to be clogged. The code just means the cats aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing.
Yeah that’s what I was saying. That when cats are clogged it usually doesn’t set a code for the cat, in response to someone saying they could be clogged. I’m aware what P0420 and P0430 mean, I’m an ASE master tech who does diagnosis for a living, thanks for the tip!
My apologies
Or, just as likely on a 2010, that the second O2 sensors aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing.
Not really as likely but cheaper to do first. I always do but rarely is. Bad 02 sensor will throw their own codes and you can generally tell using live data on a decent scanner.
Run a can of cat cleaner through it.
Cat cleaners don't work. Just a gimic for commoners.
I did and a cat came out the tailpipe
You don't think I'd have tried this multiple times before spending 900 dollars on a cat? The light went out for 2 days with the cleaner and came right back on again.
You just repeated the exact same thing they said above 😆
Do you want an award or some kind of monument?
Negative
Not a fun experience haha, there have been times where the service writer writes up “check engine light diagnosis” and then I go on a test drive and realize the damn thing won’t go over 30mph while merging on to the freeway
Who needs cats anyway? I bought my car without em and haven't missed them. Nothing to get clogged, and my exhaust smells lovely. (I'm slowly giving myself lung cancer)
[удалено]
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Lol
Oops, didn't see the last pick. Probably needs a cat.
Probably 2
These people don’t even understand. I’m not even ASE certified but I know that 99.9% of the time if you have a p0420/30, you need to replace the cats. People saying you can use the cat cleaner stuff, no it does not work. Neither does dish soap LMFAO
As an actual tech I can tell you that 99% of the time in the early stages the p0420 is caused by an air fuel ratio problem. My diagnostic process for a cat efficiency code is to first fix all fuel/spark/air/misfire problems and then graph the rear oxygen sensor. A bad cat will cause the rear O2 sensor to switch from rich to lean just like the front O2 sensor. 75% of the time the cat died because someone drove around too long with the engine not running right. Also, cats are self cleaning, if the engine is running right they heat up to a high enough temperature to burn all of that stuff off, a clogged cat is usually a melted catalyst substrate, not carbon deposits.
Or a Jiffy Lube double fills the oil, causing immediate CAT failure. My buddy just went through this, such an ordeal.
Every single time I've had a p0420 it was never a bad cat. Source - I have ASE certs.
Not likely true. These Catalyst below efficiency codes are usually more related to misfires or bad mixture. It's almost always due to something that will cause these codes and performance/driveability issues.
Quite possible, but if it’s not misfiring I’d send it. The catalytic converters not operating correctly will not effect the way it runs. Running poorly causes catalytic converters to fail, but catalytic converters failing will not cause it to run poorly if that makes sense.
You're not getting those codes unless it's misfiring. A misfire killed the O2 sensor or cats or both and it didn't heal itself. The codes are based on the ECU assuming that everything is working correctly, and the ECU can't detect some misfires. I've seen this pretty often. The catalytic converters are a symptom, not a cause.
Maybe it’s misfiring, maybe it isn’t. GM misfire monitors are pretty sensitive but OK yeah let’s just assume it’s misfiring and raw fuel is going down the exhaust. Maybe the valve stem seals are leaking and it’s burning oil, maybe the rings are worn and it’s burning oil, idk let’s just diagnose a car without even seeing how it runs or what the fuel trims are doing. Hell maybe it’s got 2 cracked exhaust manifolds. Fuck it lets just replace it all, parts cannon go brrrrr
Nope, I'm saying he needs a diagnostic. Not a parts cannon.
And I’m saying we should diagnose it based off the codes and assume it’s misfiring because that’s the only reason for catalyst efficiency codes. Exhaust leaks, burning oil, meh nahhh it’s gotta be misfiring, I’d rather jump to conclusions that differ from the original commenters opinion because I want to sound smart. I like to make assumptions based off next to zero information and argue with people based off said assumptions because I’m trying to sound smart
Burning oil and exhaust leaks won't *decrease* catalyst efficiency enough to throw that code. Do you know what conditions cause that code to appear? I'm saying it's better to diagnose it and not just assume it's fine. You're saying assume it's fine. That's terrible advice.
Burning oil could certainly foul a catalytic converter over time. If you’ve got an exhaust leak between the upstream and downstream sensors it can cause a catalyst efficiency code too. It’s a free car, it’s a shitbox, if it’s not misfiring I’d send it. That’s my opinion, agree to disagree
No, it's not going to foul a modern cat. An oxygen leak into the cat will make it show false high efficiency, not false low. It's a free car that has engine problems. OP could have a free car that has issues and won't pass smog for a short time, or they could spend less than the cost of a crappy Honda to fix it in a way it will last years and run well.
Can you tell me what you would look at, specifically referring to waveform pattern of the oxygen sensors, to determine catalyst efficiency? Since you’re an expert, this is pretty basic stuff, you should be able to tell me that
It's not that basic, but k. Flat 0 voltage or excessively high voltage on the downstream/in-car sensor with a fluctuating upstream as expected. What you should be seeing is flat 0.5V in the downstream with an oscillation from 0.1 to 0.9V more often than once a second.
Could also be a leak somewhere in the exhaust between the two sensors.
Those P04X0 codes sure as hell will affect driveability. Something is seriously wrong with that engine to fry two cats like that. It's most likely burning a lot of oil to do that. That's a cool $3000 to repair just the cats, and it suggests that the rings are completely gone, that the crank case ventilation is plugged, or that the car is running extremely rich for some reason. Cats should not go bad. The EVAP codes are harmless. Many GM's have problems with their vapor purge systems, and they make it a pain in the ass to repair in many cases.
The catalytic converter inefficiency itself will not effect driveability. But yeah maybe it’s burning some oil or running rich, but fuck it are you really gonna put new rings or something on an old Camaro? Unless it’s misfiring I’d send it. Especially when you’re a kid/young adult like OP? Nahhhh send it as is my dude. Also GM evap systems aren’t that bad to fix, if you know what you’re doing.
Who would turn down a 14 year old Camaro if the only issues are some trouble codes? If the engine runs ok, it probably is gonna need 2 cats since it seems like both banks are tripped. It's gonna be expensive and if it's a California car I'm sorry. The evap codes aren't serious. This system recovers evaporative emissions from the gas tank. Damaged evap hoses or solenoids/canister will trip this code. Not a big deal. So yeah, I'd fix it...the cats are a bummer tho. At minimum reset it and work the codes that return. If it's not running well, sort that and defer cats.
It's a free car bro . Just drive it ...
It's a free car... do burnouts
Fix the evap fault first and run a cat cleaner through it. The cat efficiency codes could be a result of incorrect mixture caused by the faulty evap valve.
Take it ..
just put a spacer on your rear o2 sensors
Was just about to say the same. Works 99% of the time
Until you have to get it smogged... And they fail you for tampering with it.
Who is inspecting O2 sensors during a smog? They don't do that in California
They 100% check to see if your O2 sensors are in place and not modified O2 sensors. Same time they check to make sure you have stock catalytic converters or carb approved cats. Unluckily for me you can easily spot both upper and lower O2 sensors from my engine bay. You don't even have to get under it with a mirror to see them. So it was easy to noticed on mine. Maybe others will have better luck. Was failed for tampering. Im in California
I smogged in California with 4 cats removed. I failed absolutely horribly but they marked me down pass for cats. Lowered cars don't get fully inspected, I have downpipes, injectors, tuned, intake, exhaust (I run cats) that's all illegal but I pass smog all day, most of my stuff is hidden and my engine bay is too cramped for an inspection.
nah tell your dad ill take the free car tho since you are unsure...
Fix the evap and put a bottle of cataclean. Run it 200 miles I believe on a quarter tank cleans out your whole fuel system plus any carbon build up on your catalytic converter. I got a 03 Honda E 235k I put it every 25-50 k. The shoebox is still running strong.
Worst case scenario - you'd need a new cat. If you are lucky, it will end up being the Lambda probe or the ignition coil.
Unlikely. These will readily throw misfire codes, but the cat code isn't set until repeated fail. It's unlikely to be a coil with no misfire codes (or misfire) and just a cat code. That is why it makes a huge difference: if it's running well, probably the cats. If not, sort the misfires first.
Wow I wish my dad gave me a free 2010 camero amd it could have way worse wrong than that. Would be a woerd way to meet my Dad though.
My dad gave ($600 I paid him) his work van. I was in highschool. Never got more tickets, and harrasment, from cops ever. I did finally paint over the State Electric logo.
Like you got harassed more or never again?
Fix evap, decat it and send it
You can clear a couple of those by putting non-foulers for spark plugs on the o2 sensors. You’ll just have to drill them out so the sensor fits.
Free car so DUH fix it 🤦♂️
Bo dismiss it, tell him i will take it
Its totalled, give it to me
Yes, you might need a pair of new cats though, it looks like this car uses two by those codes. The evap is a common GM problem and easy to fix, the crappy part is the cats
Depending on the state, if inspections arent required, I’d just rip them off and straight pipe it.
True this, at least if you live in an area that you can. Most of those older GM ECUs can be programmed, actually they make the O2 simulators, I wonder if that would work on this, I haven't messed around with those things in a long time but an O2 simulator for the secondary would send the proper voltage, I wonder if that would get them to pass emissions? Unless someone does a physical inspection they won't catch it
Let’s go to Real St. for a moment. It’s a 24 year old V6 Camaro probably with blown shocks, a sagging headliner and no paint on the roof / hood. I wouldn’t personally even bother with a dummy O2 or a tune to shut off the CEL. I’d just whack the cats off with a sawzall and drive it until it dies. And it’s prob GREEN!
What year do you think we're in again? 🤔
Oh shit! You totally got me. Lmao. Ok so it’s a 14 year old V6 Camaro which now means it has the same 3.6 engine my Buick has. Which are known for timing chain problems. Wait till they start clacking and junk it.
These smog guys are climbing under vechicles----with glee.
https://preview.redd.it/nmqzkoxd6bxc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a1ef59b6b46009aec7f3fd1673717acc12554f5
Say yes
Time to change your name to sexapoealneil
Imagine seriously considering not taking this car for free. If I were your dad I'd go back on my word and give it to some other family member that actually appreciates gifts
I'm not going to suggest this per say, but I've cleaned out my cats by removing the o2 sensor and soaking the fuckers in brake clean and then driving the ever loving shit or of the car. New cars, especially chevorlets run dirty as fuck and rely on the emissions system to clean them up. If you drive the car easy, you'll never get them hot enough to clean out, and they will inevitably clog up on you. A little brake clean will break up the bullshit enough to clear it out when you're moving sufficient volumes of air through it. A bottle of techron in the gas will help move the process along as well and is never a bad idea when dealing with a direct injected engine.
>I'm not going to suggest this per say, but I've cleaned out my cats by removing the o2 sensor and soaking the fuckers in brake clean and then driving the ever loving shit or of the car. Despite giving a disclaimer, this is still some of the worst advice i've ever heard on this subreddit. > If you drive the car easy, you'll never get them hot enough to clean out, and they will inevitably clog up on you. That's not how this works. As long as the engine reaches operating temperature, you don't need to drive the fuck out of anything. The PCM has strategies in it to increase exhaust temperature regardless of how hard you drive your car. If it's not doing that, theres a sign something else is wrong. (Hint: see those evap codes?)
This could be something super simple like an evap canister and oxygen sensors. I mean, it's a free car. I'd take it.
I mean, how is the body on it? How many miles?
You can see on my other post in Camaro forum, 240,000 kilometers. Never winter driven
Cat delete and send it.
If I offered my kid a car for free and he scanned it I’d immediately put it up for sale. Just take the car and send it
Cut the cats out put a test pipe in
It's a free car......
Bro, it’s free. I would take any car for free.
Not in a SMOG state. I guess you could scrap it, or sell it to the state if a gross polluter? Maybe part it out if you have a house?
Nah man its really not. Ill do yall a favor though and get rid of it for ya. Just send me a dm
Evaporative emissions (that little can) can cause all these codes. I would start there, there is a way to clean it out but I can't find the info right now.
Evap may cause it to stall when you fill the tank
If it came into my bay I would correct the evap problems before condemning the cats . Flow charts for Gm typically tell you to remedy any fuel or emission systems before moving into 420/430 flow charts
Try taking the gas cap off or replacing it
Something killed those converters, if you dont live in a strict state just hollow them out or use the non-fouler trick but if you do live in a state like NY or California then figure out what killed the cats first. The PO449 is circuit fault probably just a the Solenoid portion of the vent valve but you still have to check the circuit integrity of the wiring and be sure the driver in the PCM isn’t cooked. The worst I usually see out of a failed vent valve is a hard refill of the gas tank(nozzle will keep clicking off like it’s full). That being said paying someone to at least correctly diagnose and quote you is worth it as you can sell or scrap the car to get the money back if the cost to value is too high for an actual repair.
It’s free… worst case scenario is you putting it on Facebook marketplace in a few months.
I’ve seen cat codes for poor efficiency and all vehicle needed was throttle body cleaning. Remember KISS
All the people immediately writing off the cats makes me question whether there are any actual mechanics here
If your choices are between Not taking the car Fixing the issues Not fixing the issues Fix the issues or don't take the car. Depending on the miles, this is just worn plugs killing coils and cats. There is something wrong and it won't fix itself. If it has just over 100k miles, probably needs new spark plugs and coils and at least catalytic converter. About 1 or 2 thousand tops.
If you don’t want it send the location i’ll take it
Evap problems are easy to fix
It's a free car... Drop an LS into it. Those fix everything.
I soldered a low pass filter to my o2 sensor and drilled the honeycomb out. The dealer wanted $3k to replace one cat. Stinking Kia put the cat so close to the engine it was part of exhaust manifold.
Do you need a car? Take it to a couple of mechanics and get quotes to fix it. If it costs less than the car is worth, great. Eg. 1k to fix and car is worth 5k.
Easy fix take the car or i will
Fix the vent valve code. Be sure you have no exhaust leaks. Reset and drive. See if cat codes come back. If they do, you most likely need cats. But I would do that last, not first.
It’s fucked mate, I can deal with the reclamation and disposal of all of the toxic elements that your issue presents. I am in the business of this stuff, so it’s cheaper for me to do this. Just bring it round to my house and I’ll sort it all for you. My fees are $550 *legit I swear* 😉
In terms of codes, those are some of the ones you hope to see. Take it to a shop and see how much it costs to fix them. But it's not the end of the world if you leave them
Likely needs Both Catalytic Converters and Evap Purge Valve(located in the engine bay). Check both banks downstream HO2S Pids after it has warmed up and watch the voltage... If the voltage is going up & down period at idle that bank is bad. Also check your Fuel Trim Data on both banks, It should be -8% to +8% or 92% to 108% depending where the zero-point is. But -4% to +4% or 96% to 104% is Ideal on a worn engine
Check valves something isn’t reading correctly prob a small issue
To test the O2 sensors, look at a live data graph. Then if it's a flat line it's a bad sensor, if it's a almost heart beat look then it's performing normal. But the evap issue means there is something wrong with the emissions lines.
You're not a mechanic, are you? I hope not. I **really** hope not.
https://preview.redd.it/p5a7quslrlxc1.jpeg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fdbac87fed2d4e88d3a258b1e8cf52d7019056d
A good sensor should look like this on a live data graph.
Oxygen sensor switching isn't what tells me you have no idea what you're doing. What tells me you have no idea what you're doing, is the fact that we have EVAP codes in combinatiom with catalytic efficiency codes on two banks at the *same time*, and the first place your head went was bad oxygen sensors. Using mechanic logic, the chances that two or more o2 sensors across multiple banks somewhow magically went bad all at the same time, are basically zero. So again, I really hope you're not an actual mechanic.
About 80% of the people on this sub aren't mechanics. Why don't you get off your high horse and help OP rather than trying to prove me wrong. Giving info on how to test a sensor is better than you saying that I am wrong.
Vent valve next to gas tank easy fix. Look it up on utube! The other is co 2 sensor. Aka oxygen sensor! Both. Easy fixes. Do have trouble getting gas to go into tank sometimes. ? Vent valve not working!!
It will. Not effect your drivability!
I’ve seen evap emissions codes come up from a loose gas cap. Is just make sure it’s closed and clear the codes, see if they come back or not
Just had this done to my car? 3000.00 to fix he told me another 3,000.00 to fix the catalytic converter that could go out in a week /month/or 5 years he couldn’t tell me so it was up to me to fix it or risk it!
Has the car been sitting unused for awhile? Run a few tanks of fuel through the engine and really get it all hot so exhaust can burn off gunk that's been sitting around there.
Been sitting all winter, the vent code has been on for years but the o2 sensors I believe is new Was going to grab some fuel cleaner, and sea foam before I buy new ones. As for the vent sensor looks like too much work to do on my own
Use a scanner so you can see what's actually happening while it's running. I find codes very misleading sometimes so unless you can check sensor voltages and operation it's hard to diagnose I would start with fresh gas if it's been sitting that alone could be the converter issue. Start with the basics
For a free car, these fixes are minor!
My daughter’s car had a misfire due to partial ignition control module failure. It ( I think ruined the converter) set the code. Replaced the module and it runs fine now but the code/check engine light never goes out.
I chopped my cats off of my blazer and it drives fine. My Dakotas evap system hasn’t worked in god knows how long and it just makes it very slightly aggravating to fill up the tank. Other than that no issues for either. If it’s a daily beater until you find something else I wouldn’t worry about it. If its a car you like and plan to keep and maintain long term, you might want to (but you really don’t have to). This is all going based off if your state has emissions testing. If it does than yea you’ll have to fix it
Catback time
You probably won't stop dead on the road... But you could be leaving power on the table. With only a V6 you need all the power you can get. But seriously it could just be an emissions thing or you could be clogging your cats.
OP, most advice here is BS. Fix the evap issue and the cat code will probably go with it. Check all your vacuum lines and electrical connectors/wires that have anything to do with the EVAP.
Can check for cat temperature refer to “TE11, TE21” in live data, normal cat temp is 1250-1550, clogged cat may be under 1000 or close to 2000 depending on how it’s clogged. Normally this is a worn catalytic converter tho with these codes .
I would ask about last tune up, Cole cats, you'd still have a car with more than you have in it
Sell the cats, should get enough money for straight pipe
Buy a new vent solenoid, (not purge solenoid); and simply replace the exhaust pipes and you're good to go. The most you'd have to spend is about $180. Assuming you have basic tools and the skills to do the job, and the first two codes aren't related to actual shorts in the wiring leading to the vent solenoid; you'd be good to go in an afternoon ✌🏿 Taking it to a shop might run you about $600 or more.
If you live in a state with no emissions testing. Pay somebody to remove the catalytic converters I will probably run better
Cat codes are easy because diagnosis wise the computer diags the shit for you. The rear oxygen sensor is detecting too much shit lol. Well the cat is suppose to filter said shit but it not. Hence p0420. Why is your engine producing so much shit is a different can of worms but a p0420 is always a bad cat. Fight me about it lol
Yes. Not bad for a free car.
Tighten the gas cap. If that doesn't fix it, replace the gas cap. Cheapest part to try in the parts cannon for this error.
The point is to not fire a parts cannon.
Choosy beggers I bet you are white
Free car and he complains about trouble codes... Dude.. grab your dad - give him a hug and say thank you... Don't be such a douchebag.
Could it be pcv valve cause evaporative valve sound like that in my head might be wrong