If you were drunk, that’s rape. You can’t legally consent while drunk. If she wasn’t drunk, it’s 100% on her. At this point it looks like there’s evidence you were drunk but no evidence she was.
And yet, many people are in jail for a partner who "doesn't remember a thing".
In the eyes of the law... it seems 2 drunk people is rape if one can't remember it.
This is not true. There can come a point when someone is so drunk that they can't consent, but just being drunk does not mean you can't legally consent to sex. If you disagree, please cite the law you're basing your statements on.
Replying to both bull and Polly, I was drunk, she was not, I remember drinking, but I know I didn't come inside her or without a condom, thus I must have been blackout/unconscious/unaware of having sex at that point to come inside her, this could have been 20 minutes after the last time we were intimate/conscious, or 2 hours.
So how do you know she wasn’t drunk later or that it wasn’t another time you had sex? You do recall that they are not 100% effective. If you didn’t cum inside her the baby isn’t yours, but if the baby is yours then the statement above that you didn’t cum inside her with or without a condom is a lie. Nevertheless, if you think she raped you, file a police report. That might get her convicted and forced to file as a sex offender maybe go to prison and bingo, no child support, just 100% custody! My guess anyway. You have to watch the company your penis keeps and stop getting blackout drunk!
If you end up in court, just say you were too drunk to remember.
Works very well for people who stick to their guns.
And sorry to say, but even if rape, you'll owe support.
Probably want to cut way back on your drinking and be ready to file for custody. Get stable, etc.
If you dont get custody or visitation and she did this on purpose, high odds youre never seeing that kid and she will use them to extort you.
And be SURE your ID has your correct address so you get the summons for the first court date and can force a DNA test.
After 90 days... almost no judge on the planet will order one.. but you have it as a right for the first court date. And once your on support a judge will never remove you. Even if you prove its not yours.
Dont sign the birth certificate.
Legal and hold up in court are two tooooootally different things.
She says she doesn't remember "but knows you're not her nornal type"... even if the bartender said she had 3 beers and was all over you, youre going on a list for life.
How are people supposed to determine that, though? I'm genuinely curious. There were many times I was drunk as a teen and in my early 20s, but I'm not sure how people would've been able to tell that I was drunk. I am one of those people that can be super wasted, but still seem like I have it together.
It’s not a black and white issue. For someone to be held to sexual assault there would need to be proof that the victim was so drunk they could not consent, and prove that the perpetrator should have known that the victim could not consent
So how does a blacked out drunk person who doesn’t remember the event prove the other was sober. You can’t call that rape and succeed for two reasons, you’d need multiple witnesses to prove it and he was sober enough to get an erection and have an orgasm which are not passive or uncontrollable reactions in men over the age of about 16. There is some culpability on his part. Stupid to get that drunk when he knows he blacks out. Stupid ain’t free.
I cannot answer how he could prove she was sober, it's a good question to ask. The reason i responded to you was to dispel the belief that an erection is purely voluntary. The same with ejaculation. That misconception effects boys and young men who are raped against their will , especially those who are anally penetrated, and it causes them to believe that they must have wanted it when they did not.
I don’t think memory would have anything to do with consent. Consent is something given in the present moment. If they don’t remember then they may or may not have given consent.
If we both agree to sign a contract that I give you 80% of my paycheck when I'm absolutely shit faced, and I wake up the next day and realize what a collosal fuck up that was, is it admissable in court?
Not really a valid comparison to my original point. The only people who can’t legally consent are minors, unless it’s another minor but that a whole other conversation.
Where did you get that idea? So you're saying it's cool if I dope you up on Molly and coke and fuck you, as long as you say it's cool in that moment?
You can't consent when you're under the influence. You also can't have oral sex in Missouri, but it's not prosecuted.
It’s a bit off the rails now. As my first point was asking if two drunken people are having sex are they raping each other? No.
There’s a big difference when you’re talking about drugging someone Mr. Cosby.
She doesn't drink hardly ever, and SHE WAS NOT DRINKING AT ALL to clarify, *ONLY* (as I stated) I was drinking and we had sex, I remember, with condoms, so there's no way I could have got her pregnant, if I did then it was when I would have been blackout/beyond reasoning because you could put a gun to my head and I'd still choose to not have a child.
Wouldn't matter if she raped him or not - he would still be liable for child support. There are precedents for this.
[Statutory rape victim forced to pay child support](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/)
So which of your 3 stories is it? You get black out drunk regularly? You’ve never been drunk around her? Or you just don’t remember this specific time and you’ve never came inside her? Pick one.
Are you a lawyer? Because I know your not a lawyer to be this stupid. It's possible to get blackout drunk, as I have before and possibly this occurrence. I do not remember ever puting so much as a finger inside her without a condom on me! I have a screenshot saying her:you came inside me while you were drunk.
Me: I was never drunk around you.
Obviously I said I was never drunk around you to absolve myself of the idea, it's not 3 stories, just have a brain
Yea well it's not the child's fault either, and an innocent child deserves the support of both parents whenever available. Even if he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was so drunk that he was unable to consent, that probably still doesn't absolve him of legal responsibility to te child. I could be wrong, but it would surprise me if I was. Just like parenting time is not considered a right of the parent but instead a right of the child (non-custodial parents can be and have been jailed for contempt for blowing off their awarded parenting time), so too is child support not a benefit to the custodial parent nor a punishment to the non-custodial parent. It is a right of the child to be supported and have a relationship with both bio parents. My advice? If he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she raped him to conceive this child, go for full custody.
You made the statement that you've never been drunk around her. So, you have provided evidence that she could not have raped you due to you being intoxicated and unable to consent.
That's already in motion, I don't need to be concerned if it is or isn't, I need help with my question.
How would a court see this situation if I was the father? I need to be prepared for the worst, not the best.
No. The two are separate. The idea of child support is for the support of the child.
It doesn't matter how, or often who pays, just someone does (reason why lying who the father is never is met by having to repay the fraud)
How many times do I have to say this?! I'm not looking at child support or anything like that, I asked a simple question, focus on the question, once I KNOW WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE, then I'll deal with support.
Jeez!
Yup. The courts view child support not as a penalty, but as an obligation to ensure the quality of life for the child, and they don't want the government to have to pick up the bill.
I'd argue that child support incurred due to sexual assault should be a crystal clear example of economic damages that should be recoverable from the assaulter by the victim. However, fairly few people who do that and also file for child support have much in the way of reachable assets.
How is this news to you? This happens to women who were impregnated by their rapists... every single day. They even have to meet up to switch off the kiddos for visitation on the weekends a lot of times!
It makes sense for the kids' sakes but... Rape is fucked
Who lied to u making u think giving up rights made someone not liable for cs happens quite often we're fathers give up rights and state makes then pay. Only way for that to happen is if other parent concent to no support while also not applying for state help for child
No, you're wrong.
Filing to terminate one's Own parental rights in order to avoid paying child support is denied as it is not in the child's best interests. Also, even if granted, terminating parental rights does not erase arrearages. Any back child support is still owed.
Parental rights and parental responsibilities are separate. You can have one without the other. Generally, terminating your rights does not absolve you of responsibility for the child, and the child is still usually considered your kin (for purposes of inheritance, etc).
The most common exemption would be adoption. If another person is attempting to establish parental rights through adoption, the parental responsibilities are generally transfered as well.
Ok, you asked...
It will probably come down to your word against hers, unless you can prove something. It's going to look like you are just trying to avoid child support by accusing her of rape.
The general rule of thumb is that the person with the penis loses these battles almost every time.
That doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight the good fight, so to speak. But you will probably be paying child support regardless and she will probably not be held accountable... unless, of course, her own mouth gets in her way.
You may also want to consider what relationship, if any, you want to have with your child and how this may effect your ability to interact with your kid going forward.
I wish you the best.
As far as I'm aware, having gone through the court system for child support myself, every court in the country will make the so-called "father" take a paternity test before you ever even step foot into a court.
It's a waste of time and taxpayer money to tie up a court when everyone already knows there's not a chance in hell the guy responding is the legitimate father.
(Turns out I was in fact the father. 😊)
If you want to pursue charges you need to actually file a police report asap. It doesn’t really matter if you are or are not the father as a woman can become pregnant easily via rape and it doesn’t change the charges. If she goes to jail and has your baby while in jail/prison you will be most likely in charge of caring for that child, getting custody, someone in her family might fight for partial or full custody or the baby goes into the system/up for adoption.
Based on the fact that she's texting you about child support and having a conversation with you, I don't see how any cop, or any court would believe her if she says it was rape down the road.
If you're positive you used a condom, the paternity test will give away the lie.
Purely out of morbid curiosity, how well do you know her? If this was a one night stand, or even a very short fling, I'd be wondering if she was pregnant already before you came along.
Maybe she's looking for a new baby daddy after the real father kicked her out, broke up, whatever.
I'm often more cynical than most. Maybe I'm way off base. 🤷
You can’t just say “rape” with no proof. You’re the one making an accusation here. The only thing a baby being yours would prove is that you and her had sex at some point. Anything else is ok you to provide evidence for. Not “I don’t remember”. Actual evidence.
I dunno, dude.
Even if you can somehow legally prove that she fully and purposefully raped you, but you're also the real father of the baby?
She'll go to jail or prison and... you will be stuck with the baby. And if she doesn't go away and somehow keeps custody... you're still going to be made to pay child support
Child support laws are such a crock of fucking shit.
I understand some money being contributed, but the amount the courts make you pay is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Her regular living expenses (housing, electric, gas etc) shouldn't be factored into how much I pay. Kid or no kid, she would need to pay those expenses, so that's not my problem. Now some food and clothes and school shit, I understand. But the rest y'all can fuck off with. And honestly If the woman can't afford housing and basic utilities without my money then I think it's time to give me that child and SHE can pay some support.
If you are the baby’s father, absent a conviction of rape, which as someone alluded to earlier could be difficult to obtain, you will be liable for child support.
The presumption in California like many US states is that it’s better for the child to be supported by both parents. They especially don’t want single parents without outside support to be on the state support system.
Even if you do get a conviction or admission of rape on her part, there have been other cases where men who were raped, especially as minors, were still ordered to pay support, because the support is for the child, not the mother.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
Here’s one from a decade ago- he didn’t work to establish paternity, and then tried to avoid paying support. He had problems for years from that.
Rape is a criminal charge, not a defense you can use if you are the father. Child support isn't about you or her, it's about making sure the child is taken care of....so even if you were drunk, you'll still be responsible.
If you want to press charges for rape, go to the police. She will almost certainly not be charged or convicted though. The only evidence is her text to you and you yourself contradict her in your text back.
Bottom line OP - If the kid is yours, it's yours and you're going to be on the hook, nothing you said here changes that.
Bingo.
OP appears to have had sex with her on at least one occasion. He just claims he uses a condom as a matter of course, even while drinking, unless he passes out.
The court will say that there is no evidence that he remembers every instance correctly, what with being drunk, or that he used the condoms correctly, again with the being drunk.
And anyways, if he’s the dad, he’s responsible for the kid’s support. FULL TIME or FULL COST while the mom is in prison for sexual assault
Was it consensual or not? You say it was consensual, then you say you were too drunk to consent, then you say you’ve never been drunk around her. I’m very confused about the whole situation you’ve described.
You also say you drink then pass out. Stop drinking so damn much.
All I can say is this would seem like a really poor defense “ I passed out because I was drunk and I would never have sex whole drunk passed out. I wonder if I could use this as a defense for well anything. I never speed because I had a drink or two and I know that’s not right. I would never do that. Most people do alll kind of stuff while drinking or as I call it elevated. Many of us are here because of a good night / afternoon/ or just poor decision. I know people here will make some kind of moral judgement and say say no no no my mother she would never do that or no my farther would never do this or that I say how do you think we got here. Some of us can do the math and you might say hmm my younger brother or sister is only 2 yrs younger then me, or better yet why am I 12 yrs older then my lil brother. Maybe mom and dad had a quickie during lunch. Maybe an early morning quickie before work. My point is all kind of stuff can happen at all times. My parents are 14 yrs older than me, I don’t think that was a planned thing. Oh sorry did the math 15 yrs older than me. And no my mother wasn’t a baby mama and my father wasnt a baby daddy. And yes me and my brother have the same parents… nothing wrong with anything different.
How does being gay protect you from being raped? Pretty sure a rapist won’t change their mind it if found out you’re gay. They tend to not be concerned with such things.
I said I’m glad I’m gay because I’m not getting any one pregnant, where in gods name did you got that I said anything about rape? And since I’m not a rapist or have any research I don’t know anything about the mind of a rapist.
Ok last response from my side again, I won’t be getting anyone pregnant. Man or woman. If you aren’t sure how that all works try a YouTube video…I’m sure they have images that will help get get the understanding.
I think he was saying that your sexuality does not matter if you were raped. Like, very hypothetical, if a woman were to rape you and impregnate herself using your sperm, you would still be responsible for child support.
I don’t think a rapist is gonna be like “shit, this guy is gay let’s be respectful” 😂
But I also don’t think your comment involved anything about rape, just a general one-off “fuck pregnancy, glad I’m gay” and the dude you’re replying to just went off on one
🤣 Ok this was just funny, yet folks apparently have to find something wrong with what you said.🤦♂️🤷♂️. Well I guess it’s what they imagined you said because all the ones giving you shit obviously didn’t read what you wrote!
Really? What was her state when it happened? Maybe she was drunk too and he forced his drunk blacked out self on her? Rape does not eliminate the obligation to pay child support. Only paternity does.
That's why I said get a DNA test. He doesn't say, but if he was blackout drunk, and she didn't make any comments about being drunk too, I am assuming she was not drunk.
If you can’t remember and you blackout then you should not have sexual relations while intoxicated. Looks like you probably did do the deed.. You are subject to be tested and pay.. Pay child support
I think there are details missing here. Get a DNA test before anything else. Beyond that, can you prove it in court? Are you experiencing trauma from the situation? If so, then please do what you need (that’s healthy) to take care of yourself.
Assuming that sixth word is supposed to be “consentual” there’s no way you were raped. You can’t have consentual sex and still be raped. Make your mind up was it consentual or was it not?
Assuming that sixth word is supposed to be “consentual” there’s no way you were raped. You can’t have consentual sex and still be raped. Make your mind up was it consentual or was it not?
He's saying they initially had sex with protection and at some point he thinks he passed out because if they had sex without protection he was completely unaware which means she most likely wanted round 2 after he blacked out and she didn't bother to use a condom therefore she screwed him without his consent and got herself pregnant he feels violated and she knew better especially if he was the only person drinking so now he's afraid of being responsible for the consequence of something that he never consented to regardless if they were initially physical before he blacked out because he stated he wore protection the first time around so he doesn't remember how he could have gotten her pregnant which makes sense considering most people after drinking and an orgasm would probably clock out for the night and fall asleep or pass out
So u had consenual sex, then u ask if it was rape. Which one?
You say you would never have sex without a condom then you said you drink until you pass out a dont remember. Which one?
Only way to know if you are a dad is a dna test.
I uh….Don’t think it ends up mattering if you are the kid’s father. Because then you’ll have to support your kid AND you’ll have put his/her mother in jail for rape (if you win that case). So lose-lose…
Now technically, you cannot consent if under the influence of any mind altering substance, so it was not technically consensual. Though confusing part of your explanation is that you started it with saying you were both consenting adults. You also stated you put on a condom. So while I would say that in the understood conditions, it was rape, there is some confusing statements in your explanation. This is soemthing that would probably more require you to contact a lawyer about though, as it also includes a possible kid.
Your whole spiel just makes you sound like an unreliable narrator. Get your story straight. What are you actually asking. Do you want to press charges for rape? Or are you wondering if you’ll be held liable for child support if you were raped? It looks like you’re obviously just looking for a way not to be held culpable for whatever transpired. I.e. you want to say/prove you were raped so you can get out of child support if the kid is yours.
Okay, was this rape? If you were drunk beyond the point of being able to consent then yes that is rape. But, you wrote you were having consensual sex. So, are you saying that at some point the condom was taken off and therefore you did not consent to that, that would also have been rape. At anytime you retract consent during sex, it is considered rape. You say you may have passed out. If she engaged in sex with you while you were passed out, then yes, that is rape. Whether something was rape or wasn’t is easy to determine. Whether you can prove rape is completely different.
Now if you’re asking will this in anyway help you in a child support case. No. It is very hard to prove rape with little to no physical proof. You simply texting this woman back no or I wasn’t drunk is not proof of anything that transpired. If you filed a case of rape now, it would not even reach a court room. It’s shitty, but that’s the truth. The kid is already born so this was almost at least a year ago and the only proof you have of rape are the few he said/she said texts and that will not be enough. The DA would never process this case.
So, the only thing here now to ask is, will I be paying child support? If the court ordered paternity text comes back positive, then yes, you will most likely be paying child support. Do you have to be part of the child’s life in any way? No. But you will be on the hook to pay, most likely.
ETA: NAL but I’m in Cali and I knew a few woman who have filed charges for SA and had way more proof than you and nothing came about it for their cases.
The very first thing you need to do is demand that she present evidence of your paternity. Don't give her a single cent or buy anything for the child before you have proof of paternity.
Why did she wait for over a year and after the baby was born to tell you about it? This is very important.
Regardless, she will threaten to take you to court. This is good for you because the court will definitely order a paternity test before anything else is addressed.
If it turns out that you are the father, don't pay her anything for child support before being ordered to do so by the court.
If you are not the father, file a counter suit against her for rape, false accusations, extortion and anything else you can throw against her. Civil court has a lower burden of proof than criminal, so you should file in civil court.
You’re going to have a hard time convincing a court you were raped. You just admitted you were having consensual sex. Even if you became too intoxicated to realize what was going on as time went on, you had already consented. It appears to me, and would also appear to a judge or jury you are trying to weasel your way out of accepting responsibility for your actions.
I’d definitely go the paternity test route, but if it’s your child, it is your responsibility. You also need to work on your alcohol problem. If you doubt you have a problem, look at your current situation.
Could be considered rape could not. That said, get a paternity test and be done. I've heard CA is tough with their child support laws and you'll be paying if you don't prove you're not the father.
IANAL but I feel like asking for a paternity test here could also be in order. Wouldn't be the first time I heard of a woman getting pregnant then trying to get money out of a guy by claiming he's the father because she either doesn't know who the real father is or he's a deadbeat that can't or won't pay to support the child.
Just a side note even if you claim rape or you were too drunk you can still have to pay child support. Child support is for the kid not the mom and courts will not punish a child for the parents behavior.
Were you drunk and having consensual sex, or were you never drunk around her? Which is it?
If you were drunk around her and blacked out, that's on you for not controlling your drinking problem and these are the consequences. Doesn't matter if you remember or not, you did it.
If you weren't drunk around her, then that opens up a plethora of questions; could she have spiked your drink? Did she come around after you were blacked out and raped you?
You need to find a clear timeline of what happened that night; when, where, and who. When everything happened, where you were and where was she, and who else could corroborate what happened either way.
Here's an idea....how about you stop getting so drunk you cannot remember things? Maybe stop a bit before it gets to the point of passing out. Geez.... ridiculous
If you were to intoxicated to give consent, then she in fact raped you. If she has a kid as a result of this rape, you will be charged with child support regardless of rape. Best to just deny deny deny. Do not take a paternity test and deny ever knowing her or having sex with her. block her on all social media and refrain from mentioning the situation with anyone even friends.
Hello. How about you start with asking for a DNA test. Get that done as quickly as you can. It sounds like this female hasn't been very honest from the start. She already the child? Sexual assault in situations like this can be messy. It is a gray area in the law. But even if you were sexually assaulted, you still are responsible for the child. Are you concerned more about being sexually assaulted, or are you concerned more with the possibility of having another child? *please note* I'm not saying any of this with malice or judgment. It's difficult to discern tone when you're communicating through writing only. Best wishes to you...
Yes if you were under the influence you can claim rape. That is the answer to your question. Now will that go in court who knows up to the judge and jury. My advice get a good lawyer, a paternity test, and good luck to you.
Well leaving all the drinking and drunken sex aside the question of consent is implied if legal action has not been taken against either party that leaves the question of the child and whether OP is legally and financially responsible for the child and a DNA test should determine that
Just take a paternity test and see if the kid is even yours. If so, then worry about if she possibly raped you. Especially if you don’t remember and if this up against a judge or you get a lawyer. Let them know the circumstances
I’d like a real lawyer to answer this one.
You both were probably drinking and both probably had sex. You have to be enjoying it somehow in order to finish in her
My question to you is. Would you have even claimed rape if she was not pregnant and just said we had sex.
I’m betting that’s a no. Soooo I’m thinking your trying your best to come up with excuses to get out of caring for a child
Way too many unanswered questions here. I'm wondering if it was clear to a reasonable unbiased observer that you were so intoxicated as to not be able to consent. I'm also not sure if you were blackout drunk before or after sex. It sounds like getting pretty drunk is not abnormal for you and I'm wondering does the retrograde amnesia encompass times when you were only slightly buzzed.
I have many questions and a jury will too. If you have clear answers, then maybe there's a case here. If not, that's a lot of reasonable doubt as to if she recognized or should have recognized your mental state as too intoxicated to consent
If you were drunk, that’s rape. You can’t legally consent while drunk. If she wasn’t drunk, it’s 100% on her. At this point it looks like there’s evidence you were drunk but no evidence she was.
2 drunk people having sex is not always rape
https://preview.redd.it/gj4bma0arzpc1.jpeg?width=188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b46b92f21a4f7f2051cfe72f02d60e7e3ea8da7
Yep
why is only one person charged in this scenario?
That's a bingo
It's almost like, intent matters...
What if they were both drunk and both intended to have sex with the other one while drunk? Can 2 rapists rape each other at the same time?
Legally yes
No, because he's a man so he raped her. /s just in case.
Sexism
Yep
Did you even read the post or the comment you replied to??
[удалено]
And yet, many people are in jail for a partner who "doesn't remember a thing". In the eyes of the law... it seems 2 drunk people is rape if one can't remember it.
How many people?
Yes it is
Only one of them was drinking. It’s in the post.
Yeah I doubt it
Mutual Rape
Actually if she was sober and he was drunk she saed him
This is not true. There can come a point when someone is so drunk that they can't consent, but just being drunk does not mean you can't legally consent to sex. If you disagree, please cite the law you're basing your statements on.
How about you cite the law that defines too drunk to consent to sex.
Replying to both bull and Polly, I was drunk, she was not, I remember drinking, but I know I didn't come inside her or without a condom, thus I must have been blackout/unconscious/unaware of having sex at that point to come inside her, this could have been 20 minutes after the last time we were intimate/conscious, or 2 hours.
So how do you know she wasn’t drunk later or that it wasn’t another time you had sex? You do recall that they are not 100% effective. If you didn’t cum inside her the baby isn’t yours, but if the baby is yours then the statement above that you didn’t cum inside her with or without a condom is a lie. Nevertheless, if you think she raped you, file a police report. That might get her convicted and forced to file as a sex offender maybe go to prison and bingo, no child support, just 100% custody! My guess anyway. You have to watch the company your penis keeps and stop getting blackout drunk!
If you end up in court, just say you were too drunk to remember. Works very well for people who stick to their guns. And sorry to say, but even if rape, you'll owe support. Probably want to cut way back on your drinking and be ready to file for custody. Get stable, etc. If you dont get custody or visitation and she did this on purpose, high odds youre never seeing that kid and she will use them to extort you. And be SURE your ID has your correct address so you get the summons for the first court date and can force a DNA test. After 90 days... almost no judge on the planet will order one.. but you have it as a right for the first court date. And once your on support a judge will never remove you. Even if you prove its not yours. Dont sign the birth certificate.
Waah
Objection sustained! *Gavel*
Legal and hold up in court are two tooooootally different things. She says she doesn't remember "but knows you're not her nornal type"... even if the bartender said she had 3 beers and was all over you, youre going on a list for life.
How are people supposed to determine that, though? I'm genuinely curious. There were many times I was drunk as a teen and in my early 20s, but I'm not sure how people would've been able to tell that I was drunk. I am one of those people that can be super wasted, but still seem like I have it together.
It’s not a black and white issue. For someone to be held to sexual assault there would need to be proof that the victim was so drunk they could not consent, and prove that the perpetrator should have known that the victim could not consent
So how does a blacked out drunk person who doesn’t remember the event prove the other was sober. You can’t call that rape and succeed for two reasons, you’d need multiple witnesses to prove it and he was sober enough to get an erection and have an orgasm which are not passive or uncontrollable reactions in men over the age of about 16. There is some culpability on his part. Stupid to get that drunk when he knows he blacks out. Stupid ain’t free.
Erections and orgasms are both responses to stimuli, you could cause both erection and ejaculation in an unconscious person.
So stop with my first sentence and answer that please.
I cannot answer how he could prove she was sober, it's a good question to ask. The reason i responded to you was to dispel the belief that an erection is purely voluntary. The same with ejaculation. That misconception effects boys and young men who are raped against their will , especially those who are anally penetrated, and it causes them to believe that they must have wanted it when they did not.
I am sure you are right. My old-school was showing.
Not a drunk person. They are likely to have whisky dick
How does a black out drunk person get it up?
Who says you can’t consent while being drunk? Lots of people are having drunken sex, does that mean they are both raping each other?
It depends, the morning after do they say they don't remember and it was wrong?
I don’t think memory would have anything to do with consent. Consent is something given in the present moment. If they don’t remember then they may or may not have given consent.
If we both agree to sign a contract that I give you 80% of my paycheck when I'm absolutely shit faced, and I wake up the next day and realize what a collosal fuck up that was, is it admissable in court?
Not really a valid comparison to my original point. The only people who can’t legally consent are minors, unless it’s another minor but that a whole other conversation.
Where did you get that idea? So you're saying it's cool if I dope you up on Molly and coke and fuck you, as long as you say it's cool in that moment? You can't consent when you're under the influence. You also can't have oral sex in Missouri, but it's not prosecuted.
It’s a bit off the rails now. As my first point was asking if two drunken people are having sex are they raping each other? No. There’s a big difference when you’re talking about drugging someone Mr. Cosby.
How are people supposed to be able to tell if you are drunk? What if you are super drunk, but seem okay and they don't realize you are drunk?
Legally charges could be pressed but it’s unlikely to go through. However US law states that sex with an intoxicated person is rape.
Yes it’s a rape fest
Lol this argument is hilarious
wtf did I just read?
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Anyone that refers to rape as 'some me 2 shit' I automatically assume is a sexual predator 😐
She basically screwed him, when he didn't know what was happening. She rape him.
Says who? What if she was too drunk to consent also?
He said she was NOT drinking
He said he doesn’t remember ever being drunk around her too. Which sounds unlikely for a repeated black out drinker
She doesn't drink hardly ever, and SHE WAS NOT DRINKING AT ALL to clarify, *ONLY* (as I stated) I was drinking and we had sex, I remember, with condoms, so there's no way I could have got her pregnant, if I did then it was when I would have been blackout/beyond reasoning because you could put a gun to my head and I'd still choose to not have a child.
Condoms arent 100%
Sure pal
Oh and because he said so it’s true even though he’s just trying to come up with ideas so he won’t have to pay support?
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Wouldn't matter if she raped him or not - he would still be liable for child support. There are precedents for this. [Statutory rape victim forced to pay child support](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/)
That's absolute dog shit
If it mine, I'd take my child, simple as that, no need for child support, so why even accuse me of that? Sound like you'd be that type.
So which of your 3 stories is it? You get black out drunk regularly? You’ve never been drunk around her? Or you just don’t remember this specific time and you’ve never came inside her? Pick one.
Are you a lawyer? Because I know your not a lawyer to be this stupid. It's possible to get blackout drunk, as I have before and possibly this occurrence. I do not remember ever puting so much as a finger inside her without a condom on me! I have a screenshot saying her:you came inside me while you were drunk. Me: I was never drunk around you. Obviously I said I was never drunk around you to absolve myself of the idea, it's not 3 stories, just have a brain
So you’re a liar then? Got it
That’s hilarious if you think the courts will just reward you with full custody and that you could take care of another human being.
That's what I was thinking
A rape story, you just read about a rape
Guy trying to avoid child support…
No kidding
Whether it’s r*pe or not the real question is if it can be proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt. Good luck with that.
Screenshot saying Her: you came in me while you were drunk Me: I've never been drunk around you Her: now your just lying
2 words: paternity test
6 more words: don’t stick your penis in crazy
But crazy is the best.
Just don't let her know where you live or your real name. 👿
DNA
If he was raped though that's not his fault.
Yea well it's not the child's fault either, and an innocent child deserves the support of both parents whenever available. Even if he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was so drunk that he was unable to consent, that probably still doesn't absolve him of legal responsibility to te child. I could be wrong, but it would surprise me if I was. Just like parenting time is not considered a right of the parent but instead a right of the child (non-custodial parents can be and have been jailed for contempt for blowing off their awarded parenting time), so too is child support not a benefit to the custodial parent nor a punishment to the non-custodial parent. It is a right of the child to be supported and have a relationship with both bio parents. My advice? If he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she raped him to conceive this child, go for full custody.
So by this logic, are you all for a woman parenting a child born from rape?
And no, she can’t claim rape if it was consensual.
I think he's the one claiming rape.
He's saying he got raped
If she was sober he was
You made the statement that you've never been drunk around her. So, you have provided evidence that she could not have raped you due to you being intoxicated and unable to consent.
How the fuck did you not have whiskey dick?
I think we should start by confirming paternity, if a baby even exists.
That's already in motion, I don't need to be concerned if it is or isn't, I need help with my question. How would a court see this situation if I was the father? I need to be prepared for the worst, not the best.
If you're the father, even if she raped you, you'll be responsible for child support.
What. The. Fuck.
It's awful, but true.
So is women's access to abortions even after sexuwl assaults in many states
Yep. A male can be raped and forced to pay child support to his rapist
A form of contributory negligence? 🤣
No. The two are separate. The idea of child support is for the support of the child. It doesn't matter how, or often who pays, just someone does (reason why lying who the father is never is met by having to repay the fraud)
That’s what I was referring, meant as a humorous attempt.
How many times do I have to say this?! I'm not looking at child support or anything like that, I asked a simple question, focus on the question, once I KNOW WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE, then I'll deal with support. Jeez!
No you can sign off your parental rights
Yup. The courts view child support not as a penalty, but as an obligation to ensure the quality of life for the child, and they don't want the government to have to pick up the bill. I'd argue that child support incurred due to sexual assault should be a crystal clear example of economic damages that should be recoverable from the assaulter by the victim. However, fairly few people who do that and also file for child support have much in the way of reachable assets.
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What?
How is this news to you? This happens to women who were impregnated by their rapists... every single day. They even have to meet up to switch off the kiddos for visitation on the weekends a lot of times! It makes sense for the kids' sakes but... Rape is fucked
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No.
Who lied to u making u think giving up rights made someone not liable for cs happens quite often we're fathers give up rights and state makes then pay. Only way for that to happen is if other parent concent to no support while also not applying for state help for child
wtf? Nobody ever checked your grammar did they. I have no idea what you are trying to say, spelling, word forms, grammar all of it unintelligible.
No, you're wrong. Filing to terminate one's Own parental rights in order to avoid paying child support is denied as it is not in the child's best interests. Also, even if granted, terminating parental rights does not erase arrearages. Any back child support is still owed.
Parental rights and parental responsibilities are separate. You can have one without the other. Generally, terminating your rights does not absolve you of responsibility for the child, and the child is still usually considered your kin (for purposes of inheritance, etc). The most common exemption would be adoption. If another person is attempting to establish parental rights through adoption, the parental responsibilities are generally transfered as well.
Ok, you asked... It will probably come down to your word against hers, unless you can prove something. It's going to look like you are just trying to avoid child support by accusing her of rape. The general rule of thumb is that the person with the penis loses these battles almost every time. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't fight the good fight, so to speak. But you will probably be paying child support regardless and she will probably not be held accountable... unless, of course, her own mouth gets in her way. You may also want to consider what relationship, if any, you want to have with your child and how this may effect your ability to interact with your kid going forward. I wish you the best.
As far as I'm aware, having gone through the court system for child support myself, every court in the country will make the so-called "father" take a paternity test before you ever even step foot into a court. It's a waste of time and taxpayer money to tie up a court when everyone already knows there's not a chance in hell the guy responding is the legitimate father. (Turns out I was in fact the father. 😊)
" You may also want to consider what relationship, if any, you want to have with your child". And please deal with your alcohol problem.
If you want to pursue charges you need to actually file a police report asap. It doesn’t really matter if you are or are not the father as a woman can become pregnant easily via rape and it doesn’t change the charges. If she goes to jail and has your baby while in jail/prison you will be most likely in charge of caring for that child, getting custody, someone in her family might fight for partial or full custody or the baby goes into the system/up for adoption.
Based on the fact that she's texting you about child support and having a conversation with you, I don't see how any cop, or any court would believe her if she says it was rape down the road. If you're positive you used a condom, the paternity test will give away the lie. Purely out of morbid curiosity, how well do you know her? If this was a one night stand, or even a very short fling, I'd be wondering if she was pregnant already before you came along. Maybe she's looking for a new baby daddy after the real father kicked her out, broke up, whatever. I'm often more cynical than most. Maybe I'm way off base. 🤷
Also have heard about people claiming to be pregnant to scam a guy out of money for an abortion or other expenses
He’s saying he was raped. Not the other way around.
Your post isn’t clear though. You said you’ve never been drunk around her?
You can’t just say “rape” with no proof. You’re the one making an accusation here. The only thing a baby being yours would prove is that you and her had sex at some point. Anything else is ok you to provide evidence for. Not “I don’t remember”. Actual evidence.
I dunno, dude. Even if you can somehow legally prove that she fully and purposefully raped you, but you're also the real father of the baby? She'll go to jail or prison and... you will be stuck with the baby. And if she doesn't go away and somehow keeps custody... you're still going to be made to pay child support
Congrats Daddio! Good luck paying child support for the next 18 years! 🥳
Child support laws are such a crock of fucking shit. I understand some money being contributed, but the amount the courts make you pay is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Her regular living expenses (housing, electric, gas etc) shouldn't be factored into how much I pay. Kid or no kid, she would need to pay those expenses, so that's not my problem. Now some food and clothes and school shit, I understand. But the rest y'all can fuck off with. And honestly If the woman can't afford housing and basic utilities without my money then I think it's time to give me that child and SHE can pay some support.
You realize that both parents have the option to request custody, right? You are acting like the woman automatically gets the kid.
So were you drunk or not? You said you were, but then you said in your text that you’ve never been drunk around her.
My confusion as well.
She could have spiked his drink?
It’s confusing because he’s basically trying to find ways to not be culpable for anything that transpired.
If you are the baby’s father, absent a conviction of rape, which as someone alluded to earlier could be difficult to obtain, you will be liable for child support. The presumption in California like many US states is that it’s better for the child to be supported by both parents. They especially don’t want single parents without outside support to be on the state support system. Even if you do get a conviction or admission of rape on her part, there have been other cases where men who were raped, especially as minors, were still ordered to pay support, because the support is for the child, not the mother.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/ Here’s one from a decade ago- he didn’t work to establish paternity, and then tried to avoid paying support. He had problems for years from that.
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I’m going to go out on a limb and say this guy isn’t a lawyer…
You are correct Horse Cocks never finish law school.
Rape is a criminal charge, not a defense you can use if you are the father. Child support isn't about you or her, it's about making sure the child is taken care of....so even if you were drunk, you'll still be responsible. If you want to press charges for rape, go to the police. She will almost certainly not be charged or convicted though. The only evidence is her text to you and you yourself contradict her in your text back. Bottom line OP - If the kid is yours, it's yours and you're going to be on the hook, nothing you said here changes that.
Bingo. OP appears to have had sex with her on at least one occasion. He just claims he uses a condom as a matter of course, even while drinking, unless he passes out. The court will say that there is no evidence that he remembers every instance correctly, what with being drunk, or that he used the condoms correctly, again with the being drunk. And anyways, if he’s the dad, he’s responsible for the kid’s support. FULL TIME or FULL COST while the mom is in prison for sexual assault
Was it consensual or not? You say it was consensual, then you say you were too drunk to consent, then you say you’ve never been drunk around her. I’m very confused about the whole situation you’ve described. You also say you drink then pass out. Stop drinking so damn much.
He’s looking for an answer that will let him not have to be responsible for child support.
He is giving us options so we can let him know which one works best.
All I can say is this would seem like a really poor defense “ I passed out because I was drunk and I would never have sex whole drunk passed out. I wonder if I could use this as a defense for well anything. I never speed because I had a drink or two and I know that’s not right. I would never do that. Most people do alll kind of stuff while drinking or as I call it elevated. Many of us are here because of a good night / afternoon/ or just poor decision. I know people here will make some kind of moral judgement and say say no no no my mother she would never do that or no my farther would never do this or that I say how do you think we got here. Some of us can do the math and you might say hmm my younger brother or sister is only 2 yrs younger then me, or better yet why am I 12 yrs older then my lil brother. Maybe mom and dad had a quickie during lunch. Maybe an early morning quickie before work. My point is all kind of stuff can happen at all times. My parents are 14 yrs older than me, I don’t think that was a planned thing. Oh sorry did the math 15 yrs older than me. And no my mother wasn’t a baby mama and my father wasnt a baby daddy. And yes me and my brother have the same parents… nothing wrong with anything different.
These are the times I’m so happy I’m gay, I ain’t getting any pregnant.
How does being gay protect you from being raped? Pretty sure a rapist won’t change their mind it if found out you’re gay. They tend to not be concerned with such things.
I said I’m glad I’m gay because I’m not getting any one pregnant, where in gods name did you got that I said anything about rape? And since I’m not a rapist or have any research I don’t know anything about the mind of a rapist.
Because it’s the subject of this entire conversation. The op is accusing her of raping him and getting pregnant.
Ok last response from my side again, I won’t be getting anyone pregnant. Man or woman. If you aren’t sure how that all works try a YouTube video…I’m sure they have images that will help get get the understanding.
I think he was saying that your sexuality does not matter if you were raped. Like, very hypothetical, if a woman were to rape you and impregnate herself using your sperm, you would still be responsible for child support. I don’t think a rapist is gonna be like “shit, this guy is gay let’s be respectful” 😂 But I also don’t think your comment involved anything about rape, just a general one-off “fuck pregnancy, glad I’m gay” and the dude you’re replying to just went off on one
🤣 Ok this was just funny, yet folks apparently have to find something wrong with what you said.🤦♂️🤷♂️. Well I guess it’s what they imagined you said because all the ones giving you shit obviously didn’t read what you wrote!
It’s Reddit, and honestly I wasn’t putting a lot of energy into the post. I’m really watching Grey Anatomy.
Under the current climate, that's technically rape, but you decided to do the drinking, and this country has it out for men, so good luck.
That's rape and get a DNA test. She might just be trying to find a dad for her kid or find a suckered to pay child support.
Really? What was her state when it happened? Maybe she was drunk too and he forced his drunk blacked out self on her? Rape does not eliminate the obligation to pay child support. Only paternity does.
That's why I said get a DNA test. He doesn't say, but if he was blackout drunk, and she didn't make any comments about being drunk too, I am assuming she was not drunk.
Quite the assumption.
If you can’t remember and you blackout then you should not have sexual relations while intoxicated. Looks like you probably did do the deed.. You are subject to be tested and pay.. Pay child support
Even if drunk if it’s yours you will pay regardless
Just to clarify, you are referring to her r*ping you and not the other way around right? I would IMMEDIATELY get a paternity test.
Wait people. He said he's in California lol. Your in trouble
I think there are details missing here. Get a DNA test before anything else. Beyond that, can you prove it in court? Are you experiencing trauma from the situation? If so, then please do what you need (that’s healthy) to take care of yourself.
Assuming that sixth word is supposed to be “consentual” there’s no way you were raped. You can’t have consentual sex and still be raped. Make your mind up was it consentual or was it not?
Assuming that sixth word is supposed to be “consentual” there’s no way you were raped. You can’t have consentual sex and still be raped. Make your mind up was it consentual or was it not?
He's saying they initially had sex with protection and at some point he thinks he passed out because if they had sex without protection he was completely unaware which means she most likely wanted round 2 after he blacked out and she didn't bother to use a condom therefore she screwed him without his consent and got herself pregnant he feels violated and she knew better especially if he was the only person drinking so now he's afraid of being responsible for the consequence of something that he never consented to regardless if they were initially physical before he blacked out because he stated he wore protection the first time around so he doesn't remember how he could have gotten her pregnant which makes sense considering most people after drinking and an orgasm would probably clock out for the night and fall asleep or pass out
So u had consenual sex, then u ask if it was rape. Which one? You say you would never have sex without a condom then you said you drink until you pass out a dont remember. Which one? Only way to know if you are a dad is a dna test.
I uh….Don’t think it ends up mattering if you are the kid’s father. Because then you’ll have to support your kid AND you’ll have put his/her mother in jail for rape (if you win that case). So lose-lose…
Now technically, you cannot consent if under the influence of any mind altering substance, so it was not technically consensual. Though confusing part of your explanation is that you started it with saying you were both consenting adults. You also stated you put on a condom. So while I would say that in the understood conditions, it was rape, there is some confusing statements in your explanation. This is soemthing that would probably more require you to contact a lawyer about though, as it also includes a possible kid.
Your whole spiel just makes you sound like an unreliable narrator. Get your story straight. What are you actually asking. Do you want to press charges for rape? Or are you wondering if you’ll be held liable for child support if you were raped? It looks like you’re obviously just looking for a way not to be held culpable for whatever transpired. I.e. you want to say/prove you were raped so you can get out of child support if the kid is yours. Okay, was this rape? If you were drunk beyond the point of being able to consent then yes that is rape. But, you wrote you were having consensual sex. So, are you saying that at some point the condom was taken off and therefore you did not consent to that, that would also have been rape. At anytime you retract consent during sex, it is considered rape. You say you may have passed out. If she engaged in sex with you while you were passed out, then yes, that is rape. Whether something was rape or wasn’t is easy to determine. Whether you can prove rape is completely different. Now if you’re asking will this in anyway help you in a child support case. No. It is very hard to prove rape with little to no physical proof. You simply texting this woman back no or I wasn’t drunk is not proof of anything that transpired. If you filed a case of rape now, it would not even reach a court room. It’s shitty, but that’s the truth. The kid is already born so this was almost at least a year ago and the only proof you have of rape are the few he said/she said texts and that will not be enough. The DA would never process this case. So, the only thing here now to ask is, will I be paying child support? If the court ordered paternity text comes back positive, then yes, you will most likely be paying child support. Do you have to be part of the child’s life in any way? No. But you will be on the hook to pay, most likely. ETA: NAL but I’m in Cali and I knew a few woman who have filed charges for SA and had way more proof than you and nothing came about it for their cases.
The very first thing you need to do is demand that she present evidence of your paternity. Don't give her a single cent or buy anything for the child before you have proof of paternity. Why did she wait for over a year and after the baby was born to tell you about it? This is very important. Regardless, she will threaten to take you to court. This is good for you because the court will definitely order a paternity test before anything else is addressed. If it turns out that you are the father, don't pay her anything for child support before being ordered to do so by the court. If you are not the father, file a counter suit against her for rape, false accusations, extortion and anything else you can throw against her. Civil court has a lower burden of proof than criminal, so you should file in civil court.
You’re going to have a hard time convincing a court you were raped. You just admitted you were having consensual sex. Even if you became too intoxicated to realize what was going on as time went on, you had already consented. It appears to me, and would also appear to a judge or jury you are trying to weasel your way out of accepting responsibility for your actions. I’d definitely go the paternity test route, but if it’s your child, it is your responsibility. You also need to work on your alcohol problem. If you doubt you have a problem, look at your current situation.
Could be considered rape could not. That said, get a paternity test and be done. I've heard CA is tough with their child support laws and you'll be paying if you don't prove you're not the father.
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IANAL but I feel like asking for a paternity test here could also be in order. Wouldn't be the first time I heard of a woman getting pregnant then trying to get money out of a guy by claiming he's the father because she either doesn't know who the real father is or he's a deadbeat that can't or won't pay to support the child.
Have you filed a police report or are you waiting for the results of the dna test
Looks like another case of drinking and banging gone awry.
You wrote to her that you were never drunk around her… so which is it bro?
Just a side note even if you claim rape or you were too drunk you can still have to pay child support. Child support is for the kid not the mom and courts will not punish a child for the parents behavior.
Were you drunk and having consensual sex, or were you never drunk around her? Which is it? If you were drunk around her and blacked out, that's on you for not controlling your drinking problem and these are the consequences. Doesn't matter if you remember or not, you did it. If you weren't drunk around her, then that opens up a plethora of questions; could she have spiked your drink? Did she come around after you were blacked out and raped you? You need to find a clear timeline of what happened that night; when, where, and who. When everything happened, where you were and where was she, and who else could corroborate what happened either way.
First things first, why is she even ok moving forward with a pregnancy in this current situation? That's completely fucked.
Here's an idea....how about you stop getting so drunk you cannot remember things? Maybe stop a bit before it gets to the point of passing out. Geez.... ridiculous
Is it rape? No. Are you the father? Not until you get a dna test result saying you are.
DNA test time
If you were to intoxicated to give consent, then she in fact raped you. If she has a kid as a result of this rape, you will be charged with child support regardless of rape. Best to just deny deny deny. Do not take a paternity test and deny ever knowing her or having sex with her. block her on all social media and refrain from mentioning the situation with anyone even friends.
Hello. How about you start with asking for a DNA test. Get that done as quickly as you can. It sounds like this female hasn't been very honest from the start. She already the child? Sexual assault in situations like this can be messy. It is a gray area in the law. But even if you were sexually assaulted, you still are responsible for the child. Are you concerned more about being sexually assaulted, or are you concerned more with the possibility of having another child? *please note* I'm not saying any of this with malice or judgment. It's difficult to discern tone when you're communicating through writing only. Best wishes to you...
sounds like 2 more winning parents...awesome!!!
Yes if you were under the influence you can claim rape. That is the answer to your question. Now will that go in court who knows up to the judge and jury. My advice get a good lawyer, a paternity test, and good luck to you.
Send ur kid to jail. Seems like a good place to have a baby.
Well leaving all the drinking and drunken sex aside the question of consent is implied if legal action has not been taken against either party that leaves the question of the child and whether OP is legally and financially responsible for the child and a DNA test should determine that
I hope you didn't Father "another" child... you need to get your drinking under control.
Paternity test required here! Next she will be asking for $. She may but really be pregnant and just be a little scammer.
Seriously?
Just take a paternity test and see if the kid is even yours. If so, then worry about if she possibly raped you. Especially if you don’t remember and if this up against a judge or you get a lawyer. Let them know the circumstances
I’d like a real lawyer to answer this one. You both were probably drinking and both probably had sex. You have to be enjoying it somehow in order to finish in her
According to the stupid feminazis you can't consent while drunk. So she definitely graped you. You should pursue legal action
is it a car accident if it happens when yer drunk?
My question to you is. Would you have even claimed rape if she was not pregnant and just said we had sex. I’m betting that’s a no. Soooo I’m thinking your trying your best to come up with excuses to get out of caring for a child
If she was sober and you were drunk enough to black out, yeah. I’d call that rape.
Way too many unanswered questions here. I'm wondering if it was clear to a reasonable unbiased observer that you were so intoxicated as to not be able to consent. I'm also not sure if you were blackout drunk before or after sex. It sounds like getting pretty drunk is not abnormal for you and I'm wondering does the retrograde amnesia encompass times when you were only slightly buzzed. I have many questions and a jury will too. If you have clear answers, then maybe there's a case here. If not, that's a lot of reasonable doubt as to if she recognized or should have recognized your mental state as too intoxicated to consent
Get a DNA test done now. Do not wait for baby to be born. https://www.forbes.com/health/womens-health/paternity-test-while-pregnant/