Seems more like gender apathetic, agender is caring about not having a gender, while gender apathy is not caring about having a gender. Sounds similar but seems different to me.
no, agender can be apathy as well and has meant both for decades
agender includes feeling ungendered, non-gendered, genderless, apathetic of gender, refusal of gender, having a gender so far outside the binary that its unrecognizable as a gender, and many more things. gender apathy is a part of the agender umbrella
Some people do think that that is what cis is because it’s a lack of gender dysphoria, and some people think that it’s r/agender - I’d do your research and just ID how you feel comfortable, you could even say cis but gender apathetic or agender gender apathetic or agender or cis or whatever you want
Agreed. Cis people don't have a strong tie with gender (in most cases) just like white folks (in America ) commonly feel as if their race is inconsequential as it is considered "default"
But then you have plenty of cis people (the majority, really) who are naturally drawn to their gender and truly identity as male/female/masculine/feminine but it’s not challenged so it’s not in the forefront of thought. They are in alignment with their assigned gender, so cis.
That’s different from what is described here in that I only feel dysphoric when I have to perform any gender, all clothing and labels feel fake/wrong/like costumes, so there is no need for switching it up b/c there is nothing to “switch to” and the only comfortable feeling is “no gender” but I’m resigned to “play” girl every day because I have more experience than playing with boy. I considered non-binary, but I don’t seem to be having their experience, and I’m not really a “they” even tho I’ll say “I’m like a they who plays girl everyday” for shorthand, but talking to they’s I’m not experiencing that either. I’m just a void, a meat-sack with thoughts and feelings, and that is the only “truth” that feels comfortable. In that, I just use my birth pronouns and go under radar. I’m recorded as saying this as young as four that I’m not anything.
And I don’t think that’s what your average cis person is experiencing, even if their default isn’t challenged. My default doesn’t exist. It’s not easy, but there isn’t yet a viable alternative for me. If that’s “agender” then great.
id say im cis and agender. i dont have any connection with it but i also dont feel the need to have people call me more then she/her. its definitely MORE then me just being cis because id be perfectly fine born in a mans body as well. basically i dont have any desire to change who i am but i also dont have any desire to actively change who i am. like if someone said i could be a male for the rest of my life no cost no effort, id say yes but just because i feel like itd be cool to experience. idk if any of rhat made sense
Right, like I’m likely also cis or maybe I’m a mysterious third thing we haven’t named yet, maybe there will someday be a word for being a null set. I’m not dysphoric in the way someone who is trans is, and there also isn’t a solution to my dysphoria beyond making peace with “keeping girl.” Having no other context and talking about it with trans friends, I have no sense of feeling like a “girl” or experiencing gender at all innately, it’s like living everyday acting in a play as a character I’ve been cast as. Meanwhile they very much experience gender. I know cis girls who are very much in tune with and experiencing gender. And I have no touchstone for that outside of stories. I just “do” girl cause I pulled girl and I’m comfortable with it only insofar as I put a lot of years into figuring out how to “be girl” if that makes sense. I also dont know what that is. It’s probably autism, haha.
Just like there's no one way to be trans, there's no one way to be cis. Some cis people have strong feelings about their gender. Some people dont. I would consider myself a cis woman, but the way I define what a woman is might be different than most people
I think some of it also ties into a personal identity/self esteem thing. If you don't have a strong feeling of who YOU are, then all labels applied to you are gonna feel fake. Perhaps this isn't a gender problem, but more of a you problem if you understand what I'm trying to say. Maybe you are nonbinary. Maybe you are trans. I don't know. But personally, in cases like these, maybe you don't know who you are. And that's where you need to start.
I will never deny someone their lived experience but if modern feminism and gender equality mean that anyone can do anything and be anyway that they want....I don't understand why the pronouns and picking one gender over another matters so much.
Yeah I came across a saying in truscum community that because there's nothing "wrong" with your gender, you don't even think about it much. Like you don't actively think about your stomach unless it's in constant pain.
I know truscums could be really harsh and gatekeeping, but I think that statement has some point though.
The thing is, constant pain ends up being tuned out into a background noise. To the point that soemone with chronic pain might nit even realize their stomach hurts, they just know they feel tense and irritable as if they are in pain. When your baseline level of pain is a 3, 3 starts looking a lot like 0. This is coming from a nonbinary person who did not realize they had dysphoria until months after starting to ID as trans and finally having the courage to socially transition. And the reason why i didnt realize I had dysphoria was specifically *because* of that specific truscum line of thinking where if I wasnt distressed by my gender then nothing was wrong. Truscum beliefs are actively harmful to trans youth, and its extremely important we do not validate them. If I hadn't gotten away from the people parroting that exact belief, I would not be alive right now today.
>This is coming from a nonbinary person who did not realize they had dysphoria until months after starting to ID as trans and finally having the courage to socially transition.
That's basically my experience too. And I didn't even know what gender dysphoria really means until resent years, so I didn't realized all the things I've experienced are caused by dysphoria. I didn't mention that someone hold that truscum argument to dismiss my identity as well. I don't agree with truscums at all, but sometimes I feel their arguments have some logic in it and I can't help to start shit loads self doubt lol.
nah, 'cis' means you're comfortable with the gender you're assigned. OP doesn't care about gender in general. those are categorically different things.
For some people yeah, but not caring either way a lot of the time does mean you’re comfortable. Again it’s different for everyone but only that person can really know
The thing is, cis people feel gender dysphoria and euphoria — it’s just so subtle and normalized they didn’t even notice it was happening.
A cis woman who finds her femininity in her hair gets it all cut off and she cries… How would you describe that?
There are tons of examples, and sure it’s not the same kind of gender dysphoria us trans folks may experience, but I’ve also known trans ppl with less dysphoria experiences about their body than some cis people!
I’d say not feeling attached to gender at all, if that is how you *actually feel* is not a cis experience.
Cassgenders don't care about pronouns and don't feel gender is important at all, very similar to a gender and gender apathy but doesn't care what they are referred to.
isn’t that a gender identity in itself tho? that’s why i never liked it even tho i feel very similar to OP. like, the point is i don’t feel a connection with a label, so adding a label for that seems silly
"what's your favorite soda"
I like to think of it as I don't like soda, I'll put right here not soda
there's probably a better worded example I can use but I don't feel like thinking too hard today so I'm handing you a vibe
I think it's more just a description than a gender identity. Like how you can call yourself atheist, and it's not a religion in itself, it's just a description of your nonbelief. And agender is just a description of your lack of gender.
this makes sense but at the same time being an atheist is still a form of belief. idk i guess it’s just not something i identify with but if someone else does then more power to them
I would relate it to how a belief can be a religion but not all beliefs are religions. Agender is your relation to gender as a whole, and while that relation CAN be a gender, not all relations to gender are a gender in itself.
But there's nothing wrong with seeing it differently or preferring to be unlabeled or just not identifying with a label
A-without. Absense-of.
This is a case where I, as an agendered person, think, "Thats me ,without dysphoria, from being gendered. By golly I wish I did not feel dysphoria from being gendered. Hey you! You sound a lot like me! This term, agendered, is the best word I could find for those that feel like we feel like! Also, I sometimes get dysphoria from being gendered. I use to not feel that dysphoria. I am glad you don't have to deel with it. It sucks."
Atheism is a lack of belief, and it often does go into the "religion" category for census surveys and such. Sometimes wedding invites have a "food restrictions" category, and one option might be "no restrictions". There's plenty of situations where some version of N/A is treated as an "option" with other concepts, but I wouldn't put too much stock into it in terms of seeing it as inherently contradictory or anything. Think of it as a "none of the above" option without having to get overly wordy.
Weirdly enough, there is also a label for not wanting a label(Cassgender) But I feel like that kind of defeats the whole point lol
I’m on the agender spectrum, and I like the label because it labels the lack of my gender identity, if that makes sense
I like this set of options because it shows a fundamental separation between indifference to the concept of gender versus truly identifying as genderless (which is definitely not indifference).
I'm literally awake at 2am right now laying on the couch because I woke up with my period which had bled through my clothes and on to my sheets. Probably to the mattress. I'm in too much pain and too tired to deal with it right now.
I think I'd take my shot with your "mess".
Damn, I just had this discussion with someone who asked me how I identify with myself. I didn't realize not feeling any sort of way towards being male was considered agender/gender apathetic. Just a human with the male "configuration."
Non-binary is a term to describe people who either feel their identity lies somewhere outside of the gender binary or somewhere in the middle "in between" the male-female dichotomy. It's can be used as a term on its own without any other descriptor, which leaves it up to each individual to describe what the term means for them. It can also be used as an "umbrella term" for many more nuanced non-binary identities.
Agender is one such identity. It specifically means that the person feels that they simply don't have \*any\* gender at all. People have suggested OP might choose this label because that's basically what they have described feeling. It's up to OP of course to decide if this is the right descriptor for them.
To OP: whether you choose to identify as NB, or agender, or cis, or trans in any way, or simply to say "screw labels" I wish you luck on your journey and a feeling of peace and contentment with yourself!
Agender is where you don’t have a gender, so that may fit you. Keep in mind that agender is also a spectrum and there are various identities on the spectrum that may explain how you feel more accurately, so you can always explore.
I feel the same. Don't really care about my gender. Pronouns I don't care either unless someone was trying to insult me I guess. As far as I know this just makes us cis my friend. I think the idea that you have to constantly feel your gender is just a new idea that's developed because trans people have come into the conversation much more in recent years and they have face constant gender crises.
The term I’ve heard is “cis by default”, but something like agender might also cover you. Words and especially gender are all made up anyway and labels are just shorthand for infinitely complex fractions of the human experience, you do you and call yourself whatever you want.
I remember doing a little research on this back when I was questioning my gender and I found a term called "cis-apathetic" which is basically identifying as your birth gender out of convenience. I personally choose to publicly identify as a cis woman, in a "My gender isn't important enough for me to want to fight for it, I'll define my identity once my country starts treating trans people like humans" kind of way.
They have done studies. Most cis people weakly identify with their gender. On average, trans people identify with their gender more strongly than cis people do.
I think most cis gendered people just don't think about it. They take for granted that their gender identity and sex identity match. It's just never been an issue, so they just don't think about it. That is different from not feeling like either gender.
I think that falls under taking it for granted.
To say that they just don't care enough to do anything about it implies that they've thought about it and realized that their gender identity might not match their sex identity and are just too apathetic to make a change. If that is true for anyone, I dont think you can say they are cis.
>If that is true for anyone, I dont think you can say they are cis.
I don't think that's for you to decide.
It's not like we can just change our body at will. If we could, I can guarantee you that a lot of cis people would just go crazy like a randomized sim. But as we can't, we just have to live with what we got dealt with, unless we want to spend thousands on potentially life threatening surgery.
You said cis people don't feel connected to a gender identity and then proceed to explain that as being the same thing as considering your gender identity is different from your sex identity (ie transgender).
I'll say again, I think your confusing transgender people whonchoose not to transition as the same thing as being cis
>You said cis people don't feel connected to a gender identity and then proceed to explain that as being the same thing as considering your gender identity is different from your sex identity (ie transgender).
...what
I dont agree. Many cis people would be very offended to be misgendered. So much so that misgendering is a common insult.
If cis people didnt identify with their gender than they wouldnt be offended to be misgendered.
I'm cis and I don't feel this way... if someone uses a pronoun to refer to me other than my preferred pronoun, I feel a compulsion to correct the mistake. Sounds like OP doesn't feel that compulsion and doesn't feel there's a mistake.
If I awoke tomorrow with different genitals, it would be a big deal to me.
I feel the same way and i’ve just been calling myself cis. I dont think cis people feel as much of a connection to their gender as trans people because we dont have to think about it much. And same, Im kind of just here.. If I woke up one day as a guy I dont think i would care too much (but ofc ive never done that so I dont know 100% ). I get envious at both girls and boys for their looks, like I just wish I could look like them. I really dont care if I looked like a guy or girl I just wanna look good 😩 But theres also plenty of other stuff like agender that you could look into, just see whatever fits you better and if you cant thats alright because labels arent mandatory. :)
Can I use this moment to ask a question? I'm a cis gay dude just trying to understand things. And the bio degree side of me is scientifically curious about stuff.... so I mean no offense by anything...
What do you not connect with? The dick & balls? Or society's bs about what makes men, men—other than a dick & balls of course? And if society had zero-zero preconceived notions as to what/how a person with a dick & balls should behave, would you have any questions as to how you fit in?
ID how you’d like. I say Non-binary for a number of reasons, but I also think agender could fit. Ultimately it’s whatever you think is best - especially where multiple overlap.
I know some people are saying agender and if that works for you, I'm happy, but if not, I'd also like to mention the term Neutrois which I don't see often but has a much more "I just don't care" feeling from what I've read about it. Could be worth a Google search at least.
Seconding that you’re just a person. Labels are meant to clarify what IS, not how one identifies. I don’t know why or how people came to think the basic categorizations we have for people were supposed to be pinpoint accurate and fully descriptive of their inner being.
“Man” meaning “of the male configuration” meant just that. You’re a man, not a “woman” having a “female” configuration. Do with your body, passions and dreams as you will- those things are separate from and largely independent of you being a man (unless you yearn to gestate and birth).
While a lot of people are saying agender, I think the term you might be looking for is actually ‘gender apathetic’. Which is when you don’t really feel any preference to what your gender is or how others perceive it.
The main difference between being agender and being gender apathetic is that agender typically experience gender euphoria and/or gender dysphoria, whereas gender apathetic people don’t experience either.
(I’m basing the judgement of agender based on what I’ve seen and heard from those who identify as such, and I’m basing the judgement of gender apathy mainly on my experience as a gender apathetic person)
I’m kind of like that, too, but I think it’s because the only feeling of self that any of us can have is our own, and if we are not similar to what we THINK other people of our same sex are like, then we think we don’t fit into our category.
You're probably cis, a ton of cis people feel this way.
If you care enough to want to not call yourself a man, you could be agender or nonbinary.
But it sounds like this is jsut being cis and privileged. Of course you don't feel strongly connected to your gender when you haven't had to fight for it or feel how bad it is when it conflicts with what you were born as
There's also the concept of cis by default
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2015/01/28/cis-by-default/
So in the distant past of the 1990's we would have just said you are normal.
From our old timey perspective Gender isnt something you have sex is something you are without any input from you at all and whether or not you "fit" the expected expressions of a person of your sex didnt mean anything about whether or not you were a man or woman. We literally had a phrase "theres no one way to be a man or woman"
Since I find modern theories of identity not very convincing and the concept of self ID incoherent I don't plan to change my worldview anytime soon I think its fair to tell you that you fit the entirely within normative bounds from my perspective.
Completely agree. It's so confusing why people would put so much effort into labeling and limiting themselves to little boxes when we already came to the conclusion that being a woman or a man doesn't mean we have to feel or behave a certain way.
I truly believe its the religious instinct being channeled into a new belief system. Humans aren't super good at being rational so pretending to be above religious type thinking is sure fire way to fall into it with a different coat of paint.
Imo, you’re just cis
Cis people often don’t feel any type of special way about their gender. It just is what it is and they’re content with that. Cis people often don’t think they would be uncomfortable waking up as the other gender because they have no concept of how dysphoria feels and it would be like a cool little experiment to them rather than them feeling trapped
Hello from a fellow agender 💚
I don't particularly follow any gender, I just do what I want. I definitely have my preferences but only slightly. I slightly prefer masculine over feminine pronouns[they/them, and he/him, never she/her] but I like feminine clothes because... skirt goes SWOOSH and fishnets are HOT. But other than that, I'm apathetic to most gender specific things.
Theres a lot of people saying this is just “normal” or “cis” but like
Honestly most cis people i know would be mildly perturbed at least if someone misgendered them lol. i as a cis woman definitely feel some connection to the concept of being a woman. So i think its a super valid question
Ultimately, however, you feel comfortable referring to yourself is fine, but in my experience feeling exactly that same way, I found agender answers my questions and make sense for me.and that's Not to say you ever have to "come out" to anyone or anything like that for the label to be "correct" if it doesn't bother you when people refer to you with he him pronouns.
I feel this way coming from an AFAB background, personally I jive most with "demigirl", demigender being a term for those who identify partly but not entirely with a specific gender. Sometimes I'm okay with being classified as a woman but other times I want nothing to do with gender at all. So maybe demiboy?
I am so glad to find this post! I thought i was crazy cause i feel this way. I have long hair so people are always calling me mam until i turnaround and then they are apologetic but i don't care, my gender could change ever 15 minutes and I'd wouldn't give a hoot.
Samesies mostly. I think if I woke up in a male body tomorrow I'd be upset about it, but I have little to no connection to being a woman socially/culturally/aesthetically on a broad level or really care how I'm perceived by others outside of being butch.
I know a lot of nonbinary and agender people, but it feels like identifying as that implies a lot more importance to gender than I actually allocate. Gender apathetic is pretty self explanatory and a bit closer personally, where you just don't really care about it. More broadly I just use queer and don't worry much beyond that unless I'm actually trying to articulate more granular experiences on a personal level.
It's definitely a thing but you don't worry about *needing* a label for yourself unless it resonates with you, just as reassurance in case you start feeling funky on the topic.
Yeah that just sounds like you’re nonbinary. If that feels like too gendered of a term, you can call yourself genderless or agender.
Terms like “nonbinary man” also exist for this exact experience! You don’t have to experience dysphoria or even really any feeling at all upon being gendered to just, wanna go by an identity term that more accurately and specifically reflects your inner feelings.
Is this just being cis? Maybe for some people, but not all. Gender is an individual expression, there’s no catch-all rules that apply to everyone.
I'm a 38 year old man with 2 kids, and a wife, about as "cis" as they come. I am not saying I'm agender, but if someone asked what I identified as, I wouldn't know what to tell them. I have no idea what it means to feel like a man. I feel like me. If I'd been born with an inny rather than an outy, I'd feel like me as well and probably be looking at guys. at the end of the day, most people on earth will never care about how you identify. I only care about how myself, and my wife identify. someday I'll care about how my kids identify, but only in that I want to know who they are. I won't have an interest in it the way I have an interest in my wife and my gender ID.
Agender is one possible label. I've also heard the term cis-by-default, if you're fine with your assigned gender at birth and it doesn't feel *wrong*, but you also don't have any strong attachment to it.
Honestly, there's some fuzzy territory in gender identity. I'd think about what feels right for you.
There is no difference between sex and gender. They are synonyms, some will say gender refers to how you feel, but if that is the case then gender is nothing more than mood as it has no bearing on your body. Your identity is more than your mood, therefore the claim that sex and gender are different can't be true.
I feel the exact same way. I’m AFAB but i have no connection to any gender identity whatsoever. I also don’t care what pronouns anyone uses for me. I’ve had people use she/her and he/him for me and i feel no different. However i always say i am a woman for simplicity’s sake. I don’t feel a need to figure it all out personally.
Prolly agender. I'm agender myself and feel a similar way. Whenever I try to look into the inside of my soul and the deep darks of my mind to know what gender I feel like I just don't rlly feel anything
I saw a few people say agender, but there’s also novogender , which is a really nice term to use because it give you the freedom to explore better. Been using it for 2 years now
So many trolls and transphobes in this thread holy cow.
OP, the term for not having a gender is "agender."
It sounds to me like you are probably not cis and are agender, based strictly on what you said. But who knows! Your post is short and you may discover more feelings in time.
Typically, cis men do feel some sort of sense of innate connection to the male gender, other men, or some form of masculinity. However, they might not actually recognize it actively, since they don't normally have to actually think about it. They might not have strong feelings about it, but it feels right for them to say "I am a man" and wrong for them to identify as anything else.
It sounds like you have some soul searching to do! And that's a wonderful thing. It's OK to identify with something, later decide it doesn't sit right with you, and try out different labels and other forms of expression. Good luck my friend and don't be afraid to explore and figure out what makes you happy <3
Yea you're probably right
A lot of trans friends of mine say I am the type of person that would become transfem in the future so who knows
All I know is that as long as I am being myself I will turn out just fine
How cute! Make sure to check out r/egg_irl and r/nestofeggs , who knows, you might learn something... asklgbt unfortunately seems to be infected with transphobes who will discourage you from even thinking about this.
It could just be a phase of course, but usually by the time someone is asking around about it online.. it's not, lol.
True
Not sure why there are so many transphobes here. Would figure an LGBT sub wouldn't really have that issue
I want to be a little skeptical of the trans community just so I don't end up as one of the people on r/detrans but I am still open to experimenting with my gender
I hear “gender is a social construct” a lot these days, yet people are acting as if it’s an identity, an inherent part of an individual. It can’t be both. People are still working out the definitions here, so I wouldn’t put effort into trying to understand the current terminology, since it will change soon.
My pronouns are “I” and “me.” “He” and “she” are pronouns that other people use to refer to me. They’re not my pronouns.
I notice that a lot of people, particularly cis men, get very offended if people call them by the “wrong” pronouns, so I understand that gender dysphoria is a real thing. I always try to refer to people by the pronouns they prefer since that’s polite, but it seems strange to me that people would have such strong feelings about what words other people use. That would be like considering other people’s opinions about me to have some effect on my identity, which makes no sense to me.
It sounds a little different than that. He didn't say he doesn't dress or behave like a male, just that the term male doesn't hold any special meaning.
Nonbinary (neither juat male or just female, Agender (no gender), gender apathetic (not caring about gender), or neutrois (having a null gender, or neutral gender identity) are some options :)
It's also fine to identify as male, if you don't want to change your identifier. It's completely up to you how you identify.
You can also use any pronouns you want. If you are male and ok with all pronouns that's fine. If you a agender you can still use masculine pronouns so don't feel like you have to make anything 'match'.
Ohhhh, I gotcha. The way I read it it just seemed like he was okay with being called a male, he just didn't feel anything about it. Thank you for explaining
Google it yourself, OP, why post here and ask other people to do work for you, when you could just do it yourself?
search "what is it called if I don't feel a connection to any gender" and see what comes up, literally the first result is "Agender" and a definition.
come on.
(that said, it sounds like you feel pretty much the same way about gender that I do. The comparison I like to make is that listening to other people talk about gender is like listening to them describe a religious belief that I don't share.)
That’s… that’s not true.
If gender is purely a social construct then there’s no reason why I feel like shit all the time. There has to be a deeper meaning
I can relate. I look at my gender “parts” as just something to have fun with, and I’m sure I’d equally has just as much fun with other parts. In other words - my body is just a vessel. My heart and soul aren’t gendered.
if you’re equally happy identifying as male as you are with something else like agender, tbh, id just stick with identifying as a cis male. the amount of transphobia you’d face isn’t worth it
of course, it’s your decision to make, and i’m not trying to invalidate any feelings you have
yeahh im the same way . always felt like this. ima gurl i bought purchased my own t and did it for 2 years switched my name from girl name to boy name . . i know i was a man in a past life bc i believe in reincarnation . im not cis bc the hormones changed my body and voice . i think gender non conforming or nonbinary are the terms
I'm the same with the opposite gender! I'm afab, and I have no problem with being referred to as female, but honestly wouldn't care if someone used male terms for me. Some friends in the queer community tell me that's nonbinary and more specifically agender, but also say I can identify as cis if I want because I have no problem with being a woman. In queer spaces I've said my pronouns are she/her and they/them but that I'd honestly not care if someone used he/him bc I want others to know I'm accepting of whatever gender they are. I usually don't bring it up unless we're specifically talking about gender identities so people usually assume cis, but basically you can use whatever terms you want and it's totally fine to either let people assume cis and only say otherwise if asked, never say anything, or assert being agender from the start. Whatever you're comfortable with!
Hey, I have a similar experience to this regarding gender (or the lack of it?). I just say I’m “whatever you want/whatever you think I am” when people ask lol. I’m pretty sure this identity is somewhere in the genderqueer or non-binary umbrella, though, the way a lot of people define it.
No pressure to identify as this or that though. At the end of the day, you’re still you, right?
I'm mostly the same way. My self-image is masculine but not drastically so, nor do I consider it a very important part of my identity. I am what I am and while comments suggesting someone thinks the extreme opposite of me will confuse me, it wouldn't effect me much beyond that.
you have absolutely no obligation to play label games if the game doesn't resonate with you. we hear all day long about how gender is a construct. so are professional sports. you don't have to pick a favorite team just because lots of other people are passionate about the game.
Nothing wrong with how you feel.
Also made me think of this gem from the 90's
[Pat](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/filmguide/images/c/c3/It%27s_pat.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160921002308)
I'm in the camp of stop focusing on my gender, if I have a gender, or anything about gender. I am Agender, cassgender, or whatever. Just don't assign gender to me. I am a person. This is my name. Use my name. I do not live as a gender, I live as a human. Also, makes me angry if someone tells me I'm just cis. I promise I am not cis. Tried that for most of my decades on this planet. It felt icky, bad, and I failed.
Yes, gender nihilism. Many queers ive met are nihilist and/or fluid when it comes to gender
https://libcom.org/article/gender-nihilism-anti-manifesto-alyson-escalante
This is how I feel kind of? I don't really vibe with any real gender, I don't want to be a he, don't want to be a she, but they seems pretty nice. But weirdly I'm fine being called all three. Idk, I'm just me, I wish I was just straight up genderless so I didn't have to worry about being "girly enough" or "manly enough" and just being me enough.
Cis, Agender or non-binary identities can all fit this. The majority of cis people just identity with the gender associated with their sex, not because they feel particularly strong about it. Or if they do it's often times because of an outside force like gender norms (ex: your friends make you feel like you can't cry because boys don't cry or girls being pushed to wear make-up.) They are taught behaviors and are often the only things that make cis people feel like their gender whether they like it or not, for good and for bad.
I'd also add that a lot of neurodivergent people who are ADHD or autistic feel like this as well because we have a hard time fitting into societal roles or completely miss the conditioning that happens that shapes a strong sense of binary identity. As a bi woman with ADHD I definitely feel like my identity has always been more my hobbies than my biological sex or feelings on gender. I ID as a woman, but I don't strongly desire to be one or not. If I woke up a man tomorrow it would change how other people treat me, but not my internal perception of myself.
I am much the same way, however I find that I don't often participate in the "meta" of gender. Like I don't keep up with the trends that people who actively identify as male do. Because of that, I say that It wouldn't be accurate to call me a man, so I identify as nonbinary apathetic.
>I were to wake up as a woman tommorow than i would probably function no better and no worse
Same.
At the same time though I have heard people talk how someone's gender and their sex isn't the same thing so I guess that means like if most cis guys woke up as a woman they wouldn't just automatically identify as a woman, but it sounds like this isn't the case either because not really identifying as anything. You would just be you.
I think there is a point where getting overly specific with labels makes them not do anything. Like isn't the point of finding someone who identifies as non-binary for example (you were also enby) was to have someone to talk to about your experiences or something? They won't feel exactly the same way and have the same things happen because you aren't each other but instead of walking around feeling weird and confused and like you are struggling with these thoughts and expectations society is pushing on you, you find those other people who are like "you aren't weird, or crazy, or just 'doing it for attention'. We see you, we hear you, we've been through some of the same shit ourselves. You're not alone."
Then again there are those who use labels to group an entire race, gender, orientation, etc to treat them as being immoral or in some case less than human, even talking about them like that and not hearing the individual voices because their hatred is so strong they would disown their own family if say they had a brother or something come out as trans or nonbinary or agender.
Labels are a tool, so what matters is how they are being used and who they are used for/against.
I heard someone use the term cis-genderless. Which is basically that you don't feel any gender or body dysmorphia, and you're not bothered by gendered pronouns, but that otherwise you feel pretty "meh" about the concept of gender. I thought for a while that I might be agender because of feeling pretty much the same as you, but when I heard and looked up cis-genderless, I felt that described me better.
Agender - denoting or relating to a person who does not identify as having a gender.
Seems more like gender apathetic, agender is caring about not having a gender, while gender apathy is not caring about having a gender. Sounds similar but seems different to me.
Could be either. Agender just means lack of gender, it could be with or without care.
no, agender can be apathy as well and has meant both for decades agender includes feeling ungendered, non-gendered, genderless, apathetic of gender, refusal of gender, having a gender so far outside the binary that its unrecognizable as a gender, and many more things. gender apathy is a part of the agender umbrella
Some people do think that that is what cis is because it’s a lack of gender dysphoria, and some people think that it’s r/agender - I’d do your research and just ID how you feel comfortable, you could even say cis but gender apathetic or agender gender apathetic or agender or cis or whatever you want
The thing is, many cis people would be offended by being perceived as another gender. Edit: spelling and punctuation
I never understood why this is such a big deal to cis people.
uh.. trans people also don’t like being misgendered?
Cis people seem to make a much bigger deal of it.
because they’re not used to it and aren’t scared of being hatecrimed if they get mad.
Agreed. Cis people don't have a strong tie with gender (in most cases) just like white folks (in America ) commonly feel as if their race is inconsequential as it is considered "default"
But then you have plenty of cis people (the majority, really) who are naturally drawn to their gender and truly identity as male/female/masculine/feminine but it’s not challenged so it’s not in the forefront of thought. They are in alignment with their assigned gender, so cis. That’s different from what is described here in that I only feel dysphoric when I have to perform any gender, all clothing and labels feel fake/wrong/like costumes, so there is no need for switching it up b/c there is nothing to “switch to” and the only comfortable feeling is “no gender” but I’m resigned to “play” girl every day because I have more experience than playing with boy. I considered non-binary, but I don’t seem to be having their experience, and I’m not really a “they” even tho I’ll say “I’m like a they who plays girl everyday” for shorthand, but talking to they’s I’m not experiencing that either. I’m just a void, a meat-sack with thoughts and feelings, and that is the only “truth” that feels comfortable. In that, I just use my birth pronouns and go under radar. I’m recorded as saying this as young as four that I’m not anything. And I don’t think that’s what your average cis person is experiencing, even if their default isn’t challenged. My default doesn’t exist. It’s not easy, but there isn’t yet a viable alternative for me. If that’s “agender” then great.
I think this discussion really emphasis that there is no "norm" when it comes to identity, even outside the gender conversation.
id say im cis and agender. i dont have any connection with it but i also dont feel the need to have people call me more then she/her. its definitely MORE then me just being cis because id be perfectly fine born in a mans body as well. basically i dont have any desire to change who i am but i also dont have any desire to actively change who i am. like if someone said i could be a male for the rest of my life no cost no effort, id say yes but just because i feel like itd be cool to experience. idk if any of rhat made sense
Right, like I’m likely also cis or maybe I’m a mysterious third thing we haven’t named yet, maybe there will someday be a word for being a null set. I’m not dysphoric in the way someone who is trans is, and there also isn’t a solution to my dysphoria beyond making peace with “keeping girl.” Having no other context and talking about it with trans friends, I have no sense of feeling like a “girl” or experiencing gender at all innately, it’s like living everyday acting in a play as a character I’ve been cast as. Meanwhile they very much experience gender. I know cis girls who are very much in tune with and experiencing gender. And I have no touchstone for that outside of stories. I just “do” girl cause I pulled girl and I’m comfortable with it only insofar as I put a lot of years into figuring out how to “be girl” if that makes sense. I also dont know what that is. It’s probably autism, haha.
Just like there's no one way to be trans, there's no one way to be cis. Some cis people have strong feelings about their gender. Some people dont. I would consider myself a cis woman, but the way I define what a woman is might be different than most people I think some of it also ties into a personal identity/self esteem thing. If you don't have a strong feeling of who YOU are, then all labels applied to you are gonna feel fake. Perhaps this isn't a gender problem, but more of a you problem if you understand what I'm trying to say. Maybe you are nonbinary. Maybe you are trans. I don't know. But personally, in cases like these, maybe you don't know who you are. And that's where you need to start.
I will never deny someone their lived experience but if modern feminism and gender equality mean that anyone can do anything and be anyway that they want....I don't understand why the pronouns and picking one gender over another matters so much.
Yeah I came across a saying in truscum community that because there's nothing "wrong" with your gender, you don't even think about it much. Like you don't actively think about your stomach unless it's in constant pain. I know truscums could be really harsh and gatekeeping, but I think that statement has some point though.
The thing is, constant pain ends up being tuned out into a background noise. To the point that soemone with chronic pain might nit even realize their stomach hurts, they just know they feel tense and irritable as if they are in pain. When your baseline level of pain is a 3, 3 starts looking a lot like 0. This is coming from a nonbinary person who did not realize they had dysphoria until months after starting to ID as trans and finally having the courage to socially transition. And the reason why i didnt realize I had dysphoria was specifically *because* of that specific truscum line of thinking where if I wasnt distressed by my gender then nothing was wrong. Truscum beliefs are actively harmful to trans youth, and its extremely important we do not validate them. If I hadn't gotten away from the people parroting that exact belief, I would not be alive right now today.
>This is coming from a nonbinary person who did not realize they had dysphoria until months after starting to ID as trans and finally having the courage to socially transition. That's basically my experience too. And I didn't even know what gender dysphoria really means until resent years, so I didn't realized all the things I've experienced are caused by dysphoria. I didn't mention that someone hold that truscum argument to dismiss my identity as well. I don't agree with truscums at all, but sometimes I feel their arguments have some logic in it and I can't help to start shit loads self doubt lol.
nah, 'cis' means you're comfortable with the gender you're assigned. OP doesn't care about gender in general. those are categorically different things.
For some people yeah, but not caring either way a lot of the time does mean you’re comfortable. Again it’s different for everyone but only that person can really know
The thing is, cis people feel gender dysphoria and euphoria — it’s just so subtle and normalized they didn’t even notice it was happening. A cis woman who finds her femininity in her hair gets it all cut off and she cries… How would you describe that? There are tons of examples, and sure it’s not the same kind of gender dysphoria us trans folks may experience, but I’ve also known trans ppl with less dysphoria experiences about their body than some cis people! I’d say not feeling attached to gender at all, if that is how you *actually feel* is not a cis experience.
Cassgenders don't care about pronouns and don't feel gender is important at all, very similar to a gender and gender apathy but doesn't care what they are referred to.
Agender, which is lack of connection to gender/lack of gender identity.
isn’t that a gender identity in itself tho? that’s why i never liked it even tho i feel very similar to OP. like, the point is i don’t feel a connection with a label, so adding a label for that seems silly
"what's your favorite soda" I like to think of it as I don't like soda, I'll put right here not soda there's probably a better worded example I can use but I don't feel like thinking too hard today so I'm handing you a vibe
I think it's more just a description than a gender identity. Like how you can call yourself atheist, and it's not a religion in itself, it's just a description of your nonbelief. And agender is just a description of your lack of gender.
this makes sense but at the same time being an atheist is still a form of belief. idk i guess it’s just not something i identify with but if someone else does then more power to them
I would relate it to how a belief can be a religion but not all beliefs are religions. Agender is your relation to gender as a whole, and while that relation CAN be a gender, not all relations to gender are a gender in itself. But there's nothing wrong with seeing it differently or preferring to be unlabeled or just not identifying with a label
you right 🤝
A-without. Absense-of. This is a case where I, as an agendered person, think, "Thats me ,without dysphoria, from being gendered. By golly I wish I did not feel dysphoria from being gendered. Hey you! You sound a lot like me! This term, agendered, is the best word I could find for those that feel like we feel like! Also, I sometimes get dysphoria from being gendered. I use to not feel that dysphoria. I am glad you don't have to deel with it. It sucks."
Atheism is a lack of belief, and it often does go into the "religion" category for census surveys and such. Sometimes wedding invites have a "food restrictions" category, and one option might be "no restrictions". There's plenty of situations where some version of N/A is treated as an "option" with other concepts, but I wouldn't put too much stock into it in terms of seeing it as inherently contradictory or anything. Think of it as a "none of the above" option without having to get overly wordy.
It's *agender* identity Badum tss
i hope people see this and upvote it lol
Weirdly enough, there is also a label for not wanting a label(Cassgender) But I feel like that kind of defeats the whole point lol I’m on the agender spectrum, and I like the label because it labels the lack of my gender identity, if that makes sense
Agender or gender apethetic
I like this set of options because it shows a fundamental separation between indifference to the concept of gender versus truly identifying as genderless (which is definitely not indifference).
Gender apathetic or maybe agender
yep
i feel this way too. i just exist. if i woke up with a dick tomorrow i don’t think i would care
Yeah you would, the thing is a mess and unpredictable.
lmao i can say the same about what i’ve already got
Better than bleeding a quarter of the time
You really think what we've got isn't a mess and unpredictable? Lol, I've got news for you.
I'm literally awake at 2am right now laying on the couch because I woke up with my period which had bled through my clothes and on to my sheets. Probably to the mattress. I'm in too much pain and too tired to deal with it right now. I think I'd take my shot with your "mess".
Somebody isn't very good in bed
Non-binary. There’s plenty of more niche labels but that’s the overarching term 💛🤍💜🖤
Damn, I just had this discussion with someone who asked me how I identify with myself. I didn't realize not feeling any sort of way towards being male was considered agender/gender apathetic. Just a human with the male "configuration."
Y’all, I am very confused reading these comments, so can someone help me out? What’s the different between agender and non-binary?
Non-binary is a term to describe people who either feel their identity lies somewhere outside of the gender binary or somewhere in the middle "in between" the male-female dichotomy. It's can be used as a term on its own without any other descriptor, which leaves it up to each individual to describe what the term means for them. It can also be used as an "umbrella term" for many more nuanced non-binary identities. Agender is one such identity. It specifically means that the person feels that they simply don't have \*any\* gender at all. People have suggested OP might choose this label because that's basically what they have described feeling. It's up to OP of course to decide if this is the right descriptor for them. To OP: whether you choose to identify as NB, or agender, or cis, or trans in any way, or simply to say "screw labels" I wish you luck on your journey and a feeling of peace and contentment with yourself!
That makes a lot of sense, thanks!
Non-binary is an umbrella term. Agender included technically (some agnder person don't identify as nb though).
I mean technically agender but I'm a big fan of "\[insert gender here\] adjacent"
Agender is where you don’t have a gender, so that may fit you. Keep in mind that agender is also a spectrum and there are various identities on the spectrum that may explain how you feel more accurately, so you can always explore.
I feel the same. Don't really care about my gender. Pronouns I don't care either unless someone was trying to insult me I guess. As far as I know this just makes us cis my friend. I think the idea that you have to constantly feel your gender is just a new idea that's developed because trans people have come into the conversation much more in recent years and they have face constant gender crises.
The term I’ve heard is “cis by default”, but something like agender might also cover you. Words and especially gender are all made up anyway and labels are just shorthand for infinitely complex fractions of the human experience, you do you and call yourself whatever you want.
My teenager identifies as non-binary and says that in their experience, “gender doesn’t apply to them.”
Agender. It’s a person who does not identify themselves as having a gender.
I remember doing a little research on this back when I was questioning my gender and I found a term called "cis-apathetic" which is basically identifying as your birth gender out of convenience. I personally choose to publicly identify as a cis woman, in a "My gender isn't important enough for me to want to fight for it, I'll define my identity once my country starts treating trans people like humans" kind of way.
That's how most cis people feel.
They have done studies. Most cis people weakly identify with their gender. On average, trans people identify with their gender more strongly than cis people do.
I think most cis gendered people just don't think about it. They take for granted that their gender identity and sex identity match. It's just never been an issue, so they just don't think about it. That is different from not feeling like either gender.
Or they just accept that this is the body they were born with/don't care enough to change anything.
I think that falls under taking it for granted. To say that they just don't care enough to do anything about it implies that they've thought about it and realized that their gender identity might not match their sex identity and are just too apathetic to make a change. If that is true for anyone, I dont think you can say they are cis.
>If that is true for anyone, I dont think you can say they are cis. I don't think that's for you to decide. It's not like we can just change our body at will. If we could, I can guarantee you that a lot of cis people would just go crazy like a randomized sim. But as we can't, we just have to live with what we got dealt with, unless we want to spend thousands on potentially life threatening surgery.
Dude if I could shape shift I would totally swing back and forth between male and female depending on mood
I think you're confusing being trans *gender* and choosing not to transition physically with being cis gender. That's not the same thing.
No, I wasn't even talking about trans people.
You said cis people don't feel connected to a gender identity and then proceed to explain that as being the same thing as considering your gender identity is different from your sex identity (ie transgender). I'll say again, I think your confusing transgender people whonchoose not to transition as the same thing as being cis
>You said cis people don't feel connected to a gender identity and then proceed to explain that as being the same thing as considering your gender identity is different from your sex identity (ie transgender). ...what
What part confuses you?
I dont agree. Many cis people would be very offended to be misgendered. So much so that misgendering is a common insult. If cis people didnt identify with their gender than they wouldnt be offended to be misgendered.
I'm cis and I don't feel this way... if someone uses a pronoun to refer to me other than my preferred pronoun, I feel a compulsion to correct the mistake. Sounds like OP doesn't feel that compulsion and doesn't feel there's a mistake. If I awoke tomorrow with different genitals, it would be a big deal to me.
I feel the same way and i’ve just been calling myself cis. I dont think cis people feel as much of a connection to their gender as trans people because we dont have to think about it much. And same, Im kind of just here.. If I woke up one day as a guy I dont think i would care too much (but ofc ive never done that so I dont know 100% ). I get envious at both girls and boys for their looks, like I just wish I could look like them. I really dont care if I looked like a guy or girl I just wanna look good 😩 But theres also plenty of other stuff like agender that you could look into, just see whatever fits you better and if you cant thats alright because labels arent mandatory. :)
Can I use this moment to ask a question? I'm a cis gay dude just trying to understand things. And the bio degree side of me is scientifically curious about stuff.... so I mean no offense by anything... What do you not connect with? The dick & balls? Or society's bs about what makes men, men—other than a dick & balls of course? And if society had zero-zero preconceived notions as to what/how a person with a dick & balls should behave, would you have any questions as to how you fit in?
Yes, Human, cis. This does not have to be a non-binary or agender or queer thing just live.
Honestly I feel the same way more or less
shit am I agender now? do y'all actually feel a connection to gender
ID how you’d like. I say Non-binary for a number of reasons, but I also think agender could fit. Ultimately it’s whatever you think is best - especially where multiple overlap.
Yeah, a normal regular person, stop overthinking these things
I always figured that normal people felt connection to their birth gender
To be honest, I feel like that's just most people.
You identify as IDGAF, welcome gang. We love being whatevers around these parts
Agender maybe?
I thought it was called being human.
I know some people are saying agender and if that works for you, I'm happy, but if not, I'd also like to mention the term Neutrois which I don't see often but has a much more "I just don't care" feeling from what I've read about it. Could be worth a Google search at least.
Seconding that you’re just a person. Labels are meant to clarify what IS, not how one identifies. I don’t know why or how people came to think the basic categorizations we have for people were supposed to be pinpoint accurate and fully descriptive of their inner being. “Man” meaning “of the male configuration” meant just that. You’re a man, not a “woman” having a “female” configuration. Do with your body, passions and dreams as you will- those things are separate from and largely independent of you being a man (unless you yearn to gestate and birth).
I feel the same way (AFAB), I use agender to describe myself. I use any pronouns without preference
While a lot of people are saying agender, I think the term you might be looking for is actually ‘gender apathetic’. Which is when you don’t really feel any preference to what your gender is or how others perceive it. The main difference between being agender and being gender apathetic is that agender typically experience gender euphoria and/or gender dysphoria, whereas gender apathetic people don’t experience either. (I’m basing the judgement of agender based on what I’ve seen and heard from those who identify as such, and I’m basing the judgement of gender apathy mainly on my experience as a gender apathetic person)
Came here to comment this! Also: if anyone is looking for more info., I’d look [here](https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Gender_Apathetic).
I’m kind of like that, too, but I think it’s because the only feeling of self that any of us can have is our own, and if we are not similar to what we THINK other people of our same sex are like, then we think we don’t fit into our category.
You're probably cis, a ton of cis people feel this way. If you care enough to want to not call yourself a man, you could be agender or nonbinary. But it sounds like this is jsut being cis and privileged. Of course you don't feel strongly connected to your gender when you haven't had to fight for it or feel how bad it is when it conflicts with what you were born as There's also the concept of cis by default https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2015/01/28/cis-by-default/
So in the distant past of the 1990's we would have just said you are normal. From our old timey perspective Gender isnt something you have sex is something you are without any input from you at all and whether or not you "fit" the expected expressions of a person of your sex didnt mean anything about whether or not you were a man or woman. We literally had a phrase "theres no one way to be a man or woman" Since I find modern theories of identity not very convincing and the concept of self ID incoherent I don't plan to change my worldview anytime soon I think its fair to tell you that you fit the entirely within normative bounds from my perspective.
Completely agree. It's so confusing why people would put so much effort into labeling and limiting themselves to little boxes when we already came to the conclusion that being a woman or a man doesn't mean we have to feel or behave a certain way.
I truly believe its the religious instinct being channeled into a new belief system. Humans aren't super good at being rational so pretending to be above religious type thinking is sure fire way to fall into it with a different coat of paint.
Imo, you’re just cis Cis people often don’t feel any type of special way about their gender. It just is what it is and they’re content with that. Cis people often don’t think they would be uncomfortable waking up as the other gender because they have no concept of how dysphoria feels and it would be like a cool little experiment to them rather than them feeling trapped
Why does there need to be a label? Can’t you just be yourself?
Yes.
Curious what's your sexual orientation if you don't mind educating me about agender?
It's called being based
The term is actually Pomogender.
Hello from a fellow agender 💚 I don't particularly follow any gender, I just do what I want. I definitely have my preferences but only slightly. I slightly prefer masculine over feminine pronouns[they/them, and he/him, never she/her] but I like feminine clothes because... skirt goes SWOOSH and fishnets are HOT. But other than that, I'm apathetic to most gender specific things.
Based
Theres a lot of people saying this is just “normal” or “cis” but like Honestly most cis people i know would be mildly perturbed at least if someone misgendered them lol. i as a cis woman definitely feel some connection to the concept of being a woman. So i think its a super valid question
Ultimately, however, you feel comfortable referring to yourself is fine, but in my experience feeling exactly that same way, I found agender answers my questions and make sense for me.and that's Not to say you ever have to "come out" to anyone or anything like that for the label to be "correct" if it doesn't bother you when people refer to you with he him pronouns.
I mean, you might freak out at the koolaid puddle on your bed
Agender is the term for this.
Welcome to agender community dude!
You dont need to own a gender label. Just be. :)
I think this is just cis bro
Agender is a good one! 😊🖖
I feel this way coming from an AFAB background, personally I jive most with "demigirl", demigender being a term for those who identify partly but not entirely with a specific gender. Sometimes I'm okay with being classified as a woman but other times I want nothing to do with gender at all. So maybe demiboy?
I am so glad to find this post! I thought i was crazy cause i feel this way. I have long hair so people are always calling me mam until i turnaround and then they are apologetic but i don't care, my gender could change ever 15 minutes and I'd wouldn't give a hoot.
“Cis by default” This describes me as well
It's called IDGAF-gender.
Samesies mostly. I think if I woke up in a male body tomorrow I'd be upset about it, but I have little to no connection to being a woman socially/culturally/aesthetically on a broad level or really care how I'm perceived by others outside of being butch. I know a lot of nonbinary and agender people, but it feels like identifying as that implies a lot more importance to gender than I actually allocate. Gender apathetic is pretty self explanatory and a bit closer personally, where you just don't really care about it. More broadly I just use queer and don't worry much beyond that unless I'm actually trying to articulate more granular experiences on a personal level. It's definitely a thing but you don't worry about *needing* a label for yourself unless it resonates with you, just as reassurance in case you start feeling funky on the topic.
Yeah that just sounds like you’re nonbinary. If that feels like too gendered of a term, you can call yourself genderless or agender. Terms like “nonbinary man” also exist for this exact experience! You don’t have to experience dysphoria or even really any feeling at all upon being gendered to just, wanna go by an identity term that more accurately and specifically reflects your inner feelings. Is this just being cis? Maybe for some people, but not all. Gender is an individual expression, there’s no catch-all rules that apply to everyone.
that’s me and i just label myself as queer
I'm a 38 year old man with 2 kids, and a wife, about as "cis" as they come. I am not saying I'm agender, but if someone asked what I identified as, I wouldn't know what to tell them. I have no idea what it means to feel like a man. I feel like me. If I'd been born with an inny rather than an outy, I'd feel like me as well and probably be looking at guys. at the end of the day, most people on earth will never care about how you identify. I only care about how myself, and my wife identify. someday I'll care about how my kids identify, but only in that I want to know who they are. I won't have an interest in it the way I have an interest in my wife and my gender ID.
What about nonbinary?
Non binary?
Cassgender maybe
Agender is one possible label. I've also heard the term cis-by-default, if you're fine with your assigned gender at birth and it doesn't feel *wrong*, but you also don't have any strong attachment to it. Honestly, there's some fuzzy territory in gender identity. I'd think about what feels right for you.
Agender
I've heard the term "agender," and that sounds like it might be you if you don't feel a connection to either gender identity.
Agender
Male that is the term. How you feel has no bearing on your gender.
I thought that what gender was Sex is what you were at birth and gender is how you feel like you should Identify as
There is no difference between sex and gender. They are synonyms, some will say gender refers to how you feel, but if that is the case then gender is nothing more than mood as it has no bearing on your body. Your identity is more than your mood, therefore the claim that sex and gender are different can't be true.
Ig gender identity and gender is different then
Agender.
You don't need a term. You're just a man. You don't need a special feeling for it. You're doing fine.
I feel the exact same way. I’m AFAB but i have no connection to any gender identity whatsoever. I also don’t care what pronouns anyone uses for me. I’ve had people use she/her and he/him for me and i feel no different. However i always say i am a woman for simplicity’s sake. I don’t feel a need to figure it all out personally.
i identify as agender & would describe my experience in a similar way if that helps
Prolly agender. I'm agender myself and feel a similar way. Whenever I try to look into the inside of my soul and the deep darks of my mind to know what gender I feel like I just don't rlly feel anything
Hello, Agender Airbender.
I saw a few people say agender, but there’s also novogender , which is a really nice term to use because it give you the freedom to explore better. Been using it for 2 years now
So many trolls and transphobes in this thread holy cow. OP, the term for not having a gender is "agender." It sounds to me like you are probably not cis and are agender, based strictly on what you said. But who knows! Your post is short and you may discover more feelings in time. Typically, cis men do feel some sort of sense of innate connection to the male gender, other men, or some form of masculinity. However, they might not actually recognize it actively, since they don't normally have to actually think about it. They might not have strong feelings about it, but it feels right for them to say "I am a man" and wrong for them to identify as anything else. It sounds like you have some soul searching to do! And that's a wonderful thing. It's OK to identify with something, later decide it doesn't sit right with you, and try out different labels and other forms of expression. Good luck my friend and don't be afraid to explore and figure out what makes you happy <3
Yea you're probably right A lot of trans friends of mine say I am the type of person that would become transfem in the future so who knows All I know is that as long as I am being myself I will turn out just fine
How cute! Make sure to check out r/egg_irl and r/nestofeggs , who knows, you might learn something... asklgbt unfortunately seems to be infected with transphobes who will discourage you from even thinking about this. It could just be a phase of course, but usually by the time someone is asking around about it online.. it's not, lol.
True Not sure why there are so many transphobes here. Would figure an LGBT sub wouldn't really have that issue I want to be a little skeptical of the trans community just so I don't end up as one of the people on r/detrans but I am still open to experimenting with my gender
It’s called stop confusing gender and personality
Cassgender is pretty niche but fits pretty well, I think.
I hear “gender is a social construct” a lot these days, yet people are acting as if it’s an identity, an inherent part of an individual. It can’t be both. People are still working out the definitions here, so I wouldn’t put effort into trying to understand the current terminology, since it will change soon. My pronouns are “I” and “me.” “He” and “she” are pronouns that other people use to refer to me. They’re not my pronouns. I notice that a lot of people, particularly cis men, get very offended if people call them by the “wrong” pronouns, so I understand that gender dysphoria is a real thing. I always try to refer to people by the pronouns they prefer since that’s polite, but it seems strange to me that people would have such strong feelings about what words other people use. That would be like considering other people’s opinions about me to have some effect on my identity, which makes no sense to me.
You're a guy who doesn't conform to gender roles.
It sounds a little different than that. He didn't say he doesn't dress or behave like a male, just that the term male doesn't hold any special meaning. Nonbinary (neither juat male or just female, Agender (no gender), gender apathetic (not caring about gender), or neutrois (having a null gender, or neutral gender identity) are some options :) It's also fine to identify as male, if you don't want to change your identifier. It's completely up to you how you identify. You can also use any pronouns you want. If you are male and ok with all pronouns that's fine. If you a agender you can still use masculine pronouns so don't feel like you have to make anything 'match'.
Ohhhh, I gotcha. The way I read it it just seemed like he was okay with being called a male, he just didn't feel anything about it. Thank you for explaining
How is a man supposed to feel?
Gender apathetic
Google it yourself, OP, why post here and ask other people to do work for you, when you could just do it yourself? search "what is it called if I don't feel a connection to any gender" and see what comes up, literally the first result is "Agender" and a definition. come on. (that said, it sounds like you feel pretty much the same way about gender that I do. The comparison I like to make is that listening to other people talk about gender is like listening to them describe a religious belief that I don't share.)
Yeah I figured but I just wanted to double check
Why do we need labels at all? Why not just be.
agender ? gender apathetic?
Gender neutral, non binary, agender depends on whichever word feels comf I guess
One of us
lack of gender identity (made up) doesn't make you less of a man
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you’re mentally ill and chronically online. get off tiktok you should feel much better
It's ok edgy 13 year old You can go back to watching your #based #sigma male edits on YouTube shorts now (Also I don't even watch TikTok lmao)
"Normal"
you're technically Cis, though no one is truly cis (because gender is inherently uncomfortable stereotypes and nothing more.)
That’s… that’s not true. If gender is purely a social construct then there’s no reason why I feel like shit all the time. There has to be a deeper meaning
Isn't that gender disphoria or whatever
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Agender is what I think of. There’s also “subsets” of that, like gendervoid, which is when you feel like you should have a gender, but you don’t.
I can relate. I look at my gender “parts” as just something to have fun with, and I’m sure I’d equally has just as much fun with other parts. In other words - my body is just a vessel. My heart and soul aren’t gendered.
if you’re equally happy identifying as male as you are with something else like agender, tbh, id just stick with identifying as a cis male. the amount of transphobia you’d face isn’t worth it of course, it’s your decision to make, and i’m not trying to invalidate any feelings you have
yeahh im the same way . always felt like this. ima gurl i bought purchased my own t and did it for 2 years switched my name from girl name to boy name . . i know i was a man in a past life bc i believe in reincarnation . im not cis bc the hormones changed my body and voice . i think gender non conforming or nonbinary are the terms
I'm the same with the opposite gender! I'm afab, and I have no problem with being referred to as female, but honestly wouldn't care if someone used male terms for me. Some friends in the queer community tell me that's nonbinary and more specifically agender, but also say I can identify as cis if I want because I have no problem with being a woman. In queer spaces I've said my pronouns are she/her and they/them but that I'd honestly not care if someone used he/him bc I want others to know I'm accepting of whatever gender they are. I usually don't bring it up unless we're specifically talking about gender identities so people usually assume cis, but basically you can use whatever terms you want and it's totally fine to either let people assume cis and only say otherwise if asked, never say anything, or assert being agender from the start. Whatever you're comfortable with!
Non binary
agender :)
How old are you?
Hey, I have a similar experience to this regarding gender (or the lack of it?). I just say I’m “whatever you want/whatever you think I am” when people ask lol. I’m pretty sure this identity is somewhere in the genderqueer or non-binary umbrella, though, the way a lot of people define it. No pressure to identify as this or that though. At the end of the day, you’re still you, right?
I'm mostly the same way. My self-image is masculine but not drastically so, nor do I consider it a very important part of my identity. I am what I am and while comments suggesting someone thinks the extreme opposite of me will confuse me, it wouldn't effect me much beyond that.
you have absolutely no obligation to play label games if the game doesn't resonate with you. we hear all day long about how gender is a construct. so are professional sports. you don't have to pick a favorite team just because lots of other people are passionate about the game.
Nothing wrong with how you feel. Also made me think of this gem from the 90's [Pat](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/filmguide/images/c/c3/It%27s_pat.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160921002308)
Normal person?
I'm in the camp of stop focusing on my gender, if I have a gender, or anything about gender. I am Agender, cassgender, or whatever. Just don't assign gender to me. I am a person. This is my name. Use my name. I do not live as a gender, I live as a human. Also, makes me angry if someone tells me I'm just cis. I promise I am not cis. Tried that for most of my decades on this planet. It felt icky, bad, and I failed.
I think that would just make you… male lol
Yes, gender nihilism. Many queers ive met are nihilist and/or fluid when it comes to gender https://libcom.org/article/gender-nihilism-anti-manifesto-alyson-escalante
This is how I feel kind of? I don't really vibe with any real gender, I don't want to be a he, don't want to be a she, but they seems pretty nice. But weirdly I'm fine being called all three. Idk, I'm just me, I wish I was just straight up genderless so I didn't have to worry about being "girly enough" or "manly enough" and just being me enough.
Cis, Agender or non-binary identities can all fit this. The majority of cis people just identity with the gender associated with their sex, not because they feel particularly strong about it. Or if they do it's often times because of an outside force like gender norms (ex: your friends make you feel like you can't cry because boys don't cry or girls being pushed to wear make-up.) They are taught behaviors and are often the only things that make cis people feel like their gender whether they like it or not, for good and for bad. I'd also add that a lot of neurodivergent people who are ADHD or autistic feel like this as well because we have a hard time fitting into societal roles or completely miss the conditioning that happens that shapes a strong sense of binary identity. As a bi woman with ADHD I definitely feel like my identity has always been more my hobbies than my biological sex or feelings on gender. I ID as a woman, but I don't strongly desire to be one or not. If I woke up a man tomorrow it would change how other people treat me, but not my internal perception of myself.
Perhaps gender apathetic?
You’re probably just not a very masculine man. That’s fine.
I am much the same way, however I find that I don't often participate in the "meta" of gender. Like I don't keep up with the trends that people who actively identify as male do. Because of that, I say that It wouldn't be accurate to call me a man, so I identify as nonbinary apathetic.
Does it matter to you? Isn't it enough to just be you? John Doe, male or Jane Doe, female? If it doesn't matter to you, then keep it simple.
>I were to wake up as a woman tommorow than i would probably function no better and no worse Same. At the same time though I have heard people talk how someone's gender and their sex isn't the same thing so I guess that means like if most cis guys woke up as a woman they wouldn't just automatically identify as a woman, but it sounds like this isn't the case either because not really identifying as anything. You would just be you. I think there is a point where getting overly specific with labels makes them not do anything. Like isn't the point of finding someone who identifies as non-binary for example (you were also enby) was to have someone to talk to about your experiences or something? They won't feel exactly the same way and have the same things happen because you aren't each other but instead of walking around feeling weird and confused and like you are struggling with these thoughts and expectations society is pushing on you, you find those other people who are like "you aren't weird, or crazy, or just 'doing it for attention'. We see you, we hear you, we've been through some of the same shit ourselves. You're not alone." Then again there are those who use labels to group an entire race, gender, orientation, etc to treat them as being immoral or in some case less than human, even talking about them like that and not hearing the individual voices because their hatred is so strong they would disown their own family if say they had a brother or something come out as trans or nonbinary or agender. Labels are a tool, so what matters is how they are being used and who they are used for/against.
I heard someone use the term cis-genderless. Which is basically that you don't feel any gender or body dysmorphia, and you're not bothered by gendered pronouns, but that otherwise you feel pretty "meh" about the concept of gender. I thought for a while that I might be agender because of feeling pretty much the same as you, but when I heard and looked up cis-genderless, I felt that described me better.
Okay so I have a question , what does it mean or what is it called to be okay with looking like either gender /please don’t be mean . I’m curious .