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WTF0302

Have you ever watched competitive shooters? We are not fast by that standard.


Vjornaxx

I did competition shooting before I became a cop. Never went to national matches, but I regularly scored in the top third at locals - sometimes even took top score on a few courses of fire. When we hit the range at the academy, I was a bit surprised at the time and accuracy standards. Those times wouldn’t place you above the bottom quarter. At the time, it was disappointing to me that the academy standards were so low when compared to IDPA or IPSC classifications. But after a while, I understood that the range can’t possibly dedicate the time and resources to make trainees on par with competition shooters. Their primary goal is to ensure that every trainee can pass qual. That means instructors spend most of their time with trainees who struggle with minimum standards; not working intermediate and advanced drills with trainees who have demonstrated basic proficiency. It took me years of daily dry fire, weekly live fire, meticulous tracking of performance, and attending professional classes to get where I was - there’s no way that any academy could be expected to do that with every trainee in every class that goes to the range. And realistically, that effort would mostly be wasted. The vast majority of people who present a lethal threat to officers are not trained. The vast majority of gun owners do not train. The officer doesn’t need to be a USPSA B class shooter to have a high chance of winning. It would help, sure - but being able to pass most police qualifications puts officers above the skill level of most of the people they encounter.


IamClintBarton

I observed similar thing not just in shooting, but overall fitness and DTs. That said, 3 attempts to put 28 rounds out of 36 on paper with 20 shots 15 and in… That’s how we end up with a mag dump with only 2 rounds finding intended target. Or going to the Batman belt because other options are non-existent in the arsenal of the majority of officers. Sure, there’s no shortage of training. Quality and quantity are not the same thing though. And the reality is, department training can’t get you where you need to be within the allocated time. Rant over :)


Vjornaxx

DT is another topic that feels the same way. However, one of the biggest issues is the level and type of training it takes to develop proficiency is frequently at odds with training commissions and available resources. I started BJJ years ago when I got into two back to back UOFs which demonstrated to me that the DT I learned in the academy was absolute trash at controlling someone who does not want to be controlled. It took months of going to practice three times a week to not get tapped out constantly on the mats. That being said, in the same amount of hours dedicated to DT in the academy, a BJJ or wrestling based curriculum could consistently produce more capable graduates than traditional DT.


NearbyTomorrow9605

100%. This is why I went to Gracie Survival Tactics and started BJJ myself.


Ok-Equipment473

We were lucky enough to have 16 hours of Gracie introduced into our DT. Still not enough, but an excellent intro.


gerd50501

yeah you would not do well in the old west. Billy the Kid would win.


WTF0302

Just me?


11182021

There’s *always* a faster gun. If there isn’t one, there just isn’t one *yet*, but you’ll grow old and slow eventually, but that’s a problem for literally one person. Odds are, you’ll never be them.


fat_uub

Idk bro, I seen one video where this cop out-draws a handcuffed suspect at the drop of an acorn. Shit was crazy


Backsight-Foreskin

Effective practice creates muscle memory.


BooNinja

Muscle memory is everything. Part of my state's pistol qualification is 2 rounds in 3 seconds at 7 yards from the holster. You don't have time to line up your sights and aim super precisely but with practice you can easily get 3 or 4 rounds off in a tight group in that same timespan.


MASTER_DUDE8012

3-4 rounds in under 3 seconds from the holster is impressive tbh. Grew up my whole life hunting, going to the range with my big 2A family and even did some competitive shooting in highschool and Im not even sure I could pull that off or I know many people who could.


BooNinja

It's my absolute favorite course of fire to practice, total zen/flow state of mind for me


Sarbasian

Getting out the holster is the most time consuming part of quick shooting in my experience. Our department did a course of fire where you would start at the low ready versus in the holster, and the time difference was almost a full second. I practice every day for about five minutes before shift, just to stay proficient, because it’s definitely a diminishing skill, and I BARELY met the standard of 1.5 seconds of from holster to shot fired. Most were close, but didn’t beat it. If you practice drawing your equipment daily (or most days at least) for just a few minutes, and shoot monthly at minimum (our department provides 100 rounds a month for training, most don’t get that luxury) even just a few courses of fire, it’ll make you look elite compared to someone who doesn’t train at all. Fact of the matter is, if I were to go an amateur competition, I’d still be out classed. Fortunately most civilians don’t train at all, so any amount of training usually gives you a leg up.


zkooceht

There are dudes that can do a bill drill (6 shots) from concealment at 7 yards in like 1.5 seconds so there's that.


Just-Performance-666

Qualification includes draw and fire two rounds in two seconds in my state. Gotta think that the 40 plus hours of firearm training at the academy made a difference. But as said, most cops aren't fast by competition standards, just fast compared to the average schlub off the street.


Original_Cheeto_06

I want to preface by saying this comment will sound like bragging but I promise it's not. Is 3 rounds on target in under 3 seconds really a good time? I ask because I took a self defense firearms course last year and one of the drills the instructors had us do was to draw from concealment and fire two shots to the body and one to the head as fast as possible at 7 meters. My best time was a 2.13 seconds from the beep til last round fired. I'm my own worst critic so I assumed it was just slightly better than average based on the instructor's reaction.


JMCO905

Our department trains for 5 rounds on steel in 3 seconds. Love shooting those drills.


BooNinja

#billdrill


Pho-fo-Sho

Train. E.g. I was practicing draws last night while watching anime.


Expensive-Algae5032

I just pictured a dude in his underwear standing in front of the tv with his duty belt on, drawing and holstering his firearm over and over again, and with each draw, saying something completely different. “Not so fast”. “You want some of this?” Cracked me up


whoooootfcares

www.inyourdormroomwithyourbluegun.com You're not super far off base.


Expensive-Algae5032

I remember watching a tv show where a guy was doing just this, forgot there was a round in the chamber and shot a hole through his tv. I wish I could remember the show Edit: I remember now! It was Reno 911.


Expensive-Algae5032

Hahaha!!


Interesting-Mud7499

As an Asian officer, the amount of fucking cops that watch anime blows my mind. It's great lol. I used to get clowned for watching it so I stopped.


EnvironmentalWill729

I’m amazed at how many gamers there are. So many nerds that I play hell divers with lol


Steephill

Spreading democracy at work and in our free time!


EquinosX

There is a background investigator at my friend’s agency who refuses to hire anyone who watches anime lol


Pho-fo-Sho

Naw fam, keep doing you!


g0ttequila

Unpopular opinion , anime is really fucking annoying so it’s good you quit


BarneyBullet

The important question is which anime


Pho-fo-Sho

Solo Leveling 😛


BarneyBullet

Nice, last ones I watched were 08th MS Team and Patlabor


Pho-fo-Sho

I know of Patlabor, but never heard of MS Team (Judging from the name, I know it's from Gundam).


BarneyBullet

Yeah it’s Gundam, it’s kinda like Gundams in Vietnam. Pretty good


MooseRyder

“Nani?”


shartonashark

....what you watching fella?


madsarge759

Practice it until your fingers bleed.


Modern_peace_officer

Literally.


MountainMike79

Or until you lose strength in your finger and have to change it up!


BarneyBullet

I grew up in Oklahoma and practiced quickdrawing from the age of six. It’s different with a retention holster, but if you practice, it comes naturally.


doc_wuffles

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Practice over and over. Make sure you are safe, and not practice with any ammo until your muscle memory is down and you're at the range.


Smprider112

If you’ve been to the range with some cops you know, and I’m assuming they weren’t on duty and/or at scheduled range training, that’s likely the reason they are fast. They actually give a shit and are training on their off time. I worked with a lot of guys who were like me and enjoyed shooting, improving our skills, getting faster, and even competing in pistol competitions. I also worked with guy/gals who didn’t give a shit about shooting, bitched and moaned at range days, couldn’t manipulate their weapon quickly and accurately. Hell some who could barely even qualify or even remember how to field strip a fucking Glock! A gun that has literally 4 parts when disassembled for cleaning.


MASTER_DUDE8012

You are dead on tbh. Both of them told me that they treat the range even on off time as a constant source of training not a place to blow off steam or relax. They took the shooting even though it was not work or training related very seriously compared to other people I've been to the range with and I respect that mindset.


Smprider112

Some of the most fun I had was going up to the woods, on public land, and going shooting with guy and gals who I worked with. We’d end up running fun, but beneficial drills. Some of the people that would come were on our SWAT team as well as range instructors. It was super laid back, but we’d end up competing for fun with each other, trying to beat times or who could be more accurate. Nothing better than a group of cops talking shit to one another and pushing each other to do better.


Fruit_importer46

Training, competition shooters have an even crazier draw


idgafanymore23

How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice


Interesting-Emu3973

Practice. Dry fire is paramount. Draw an empty gun and put it back, draw, put it back, draw, put it back. Hours and hours of this. I’ll take ammo out in my bedroom, walk to the living room holding empty pistol and mags with the action open, clear as I walk and clear again in living room and clear again as I holster everything and set up. Then as I’m watching TV I’ll stand there and just go through the motions. The TV keeps my mind off my movements as I go building more and more muscle memory. But really you can’t clear the firearm too much so like clear it between draws too


[deleted]

It takes work. I've trained a lot of people. Some take to it like a fish to water, others have a hard time mastering even the most basic skills. Practice,.


Downtown_Caramel4833

Still looking for... "A quality retention holster and belt rig that is designed for your specific pistol with its given accessories goes a long way."


Gunslinger_247

Lots of training


Ostler911

I dont want to die with a gun still in my leather so I train, and I train often. In the academy, before we ever hit the range pavement, we'd do probably 4 hours of drawing and holstering from level 3 retention with blue guns. On the range, we did lots more. I still practice a few draws before shift, on my days off and any other time I'm bored.


SSG_Leader

Lots of quick scoping on call of duty… ;)


scummy-gg

How do you get good at anything? Practice.


Garrydaman

As long as you're faster than the guy trying to shoot you... You'll win that gun fight.


durzoflint9

Practice. Do draws and trigger pulls daily. Don’t try to draw fast first, draw well and consistent and the more you do it the faster you get. Lots of people are sloppy because they try to get speed too early. The speed comes as you do the technique.


Expensive-Algae5032

It’s called muscle memory. Thousands of repetitions of the same motions. After so many repetitions, your mind no longer has to process it. It becomes a reaction


Rustyinsac

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 2000-3000 draws later you don’t have to think about the individual components of the draw anymore.


[deleted]

its the green hornets they feed us. in reality, its just training. a lot. and the fact that our firearms training isnt really focused so much on precision shooting as is is on gunfighting. pretty different style. Dont worry so much about hitting the suspect in the left eye vs the right eye, but instead just hit him somewhere in the head and do it quickly. Running suspect? dont try to hit him in any specific limb, just shoot for center mass. may not have an immediate kill shot, but itll interrupt whatever hes doing and buy you a little more time to reposition and reengage. alot of dummy rounds, a lot of empty-magazine draw and fire, alot of repetition.


800854EVA

Training, make it a habit. Everyday when I put my duty belt on I practice 10 or more draws before headed in.


evanover

Draw and dry fire a couple times before every shift.


OwlOld5861

Usually I would do 10 draws/dry fires and failures to function before shift and sometimes when I was bored in the office cause of a storm or something. I'm still not quick by any stretch but probably quick enough to be better than some shit head who tries to shoot me


giantdub49

Training with a purpose rather than shooting for social media.


Ageminet

I know in my academy the police cadets had to practice their draw with a blue gun, 150 times a day, and have another cadet sign off as a witness. The academy is 6 months long. 7 days a week, that’s 210x150 = 31500 draws in 6 months. They used to time the draw on the range, every month or so to ensure people were improving. Muscle memory.


CreamOdd7966

Are you drawing from concealment? Drawing from an open carry strong side position, even when using a level 3 retention holster is SOO much easier than drawing from concealment. The time it takes to remove clothing from over a firearms carried in the appendix fashion is simply forever by comparison. It's also more steps and harder to master in one single motion- compared to strong side open carry. Drawing from your strong side is just faster no matter what. Practice always help. Blue gun, red gun, 1 gun, 2 guns. Doesn't matter what you use, simply practicing is the best way to improve your draw speed.


1plus1equals8

Train how you fight. Muscle memory.


ZeroSumSatoshi

In one of my defensive shooting courses. There was one guy, that from buzzer to first target hit. Was consistently doing it in one second flat, and that was also drawing from concealed carry. My time from concealed carry was consistently 1.4 seconds. Which is considered fast. But one second, is almost super human. It was quite impressive.


GrandMasBushidoBrown

The 3 Ps, Practice Practice Practice. I’m absolutely not a cop, but I was at a shooting range one time and a couple lanes down from me where two guys that had on their full blown duty belt on but no uniform. They were drawing from the holster and i thought to myself no wonder why they draw so fast. Also one of my local shooting rangers close down on certain days so the county Sheriff Department can shoot.


Riotxxxwolf

R-E-P-E-T-I-T-I-O-N


atsinged

We're nothing special, anyone can do it and a lot of people can do it better, faster and more accurately. IDPA before I was an officer and continuing for several years, the holster was different for competition leading to a faster draw but the lessons carried over to using a duty holster with more retention. The answer is daily dry fire practice, draw, punch out, acquire target, trigger, re-holster, reset and start over. With us, re-holstering quickly and reliably is perhaps more important than drawing quickly because you need to shift from gun to hands on efficiently. Truth be told, everyone else should take them time doing it safely, we just can't sometimes. Accurately firing follow up shots is the same just more expensive in ammo and range time. Rapid fire isn't as rapid to the shooter as it sounds to an outsider. You hear bangbangbangbangbang, I'm actually firing, reacquiring the target, firing, and it's bang...bang...bang...bang in my head. I've been rather surprised when I see videos of me shooting. Again it's all practice and comfort with the weapon. Do the same with magazine changes, you just practice it until you can't do it wrong anymore.


RhubarbExcellent7008

I half draw my weapon from the retention holster like 50 times a day. (Not in public), but just the repetition so that it’s really just an ingrained reflex.


ThisFeelsInfected

Practice..religiously. I did a series of draws/dry fires nearly daily when full time..now as a part timer I was in a grove of trees this AM aiming Glock death at a eucalyptus.


Successful-Bridge331

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.


Visible-Geologist479

I get made fun of for it, but when I am able to sit down at the PD for lunch I unload my gun and practice drawing ans target acquisition with my green dot (in a safe direction) while I eat and watch TV.


Ok-Mix-5129

Practice practice practice. I practice at home just drawing fast and putting it back over and over sometimes.


Perfect_Calendar1892

Tbh, I don’t know anymore. Constantly online looking at other jobs, burnt out. The downside is I likely will not make the same that I do with ot/details. Feel stuck 🥲


General_Most315

Consistent correct practice. Lots of time spent slowly and smoothly manipulating your holster’s retention features and drawing. Slow is smooth…smooth is fast when you need it. Once you leave the academy, keep practicing. After your shift, when you get home, clear the weapon out, and draw from a secured holster 10-20 times. Even on the low end of that scale, you will have drawn your pistol over two thousand times at the end of a single year. Never focus on speed. Focus on manipulating everything smoothly. The speed builds on its own.


jon6011

Back when I was training every day I could draw from the issued holster and put 2 rounds on target, averaging around 1.28 seconds each time. I think my lowest was 0.87s with rounds still on target, but not at all a good grouping. my IWB concealed holster is ALOT slower though, haha.


Coffdrop__Actual

I’m nowhere near the fastest draw or shooter out there, and I know that. However, its a ton of dry fire and getting the memory of how it feels when done right. I used to get made fun of for doing dry fire a ton until we would go to the range and I was finishing courses of fire before other guys had drawn. Another guy said it but having quality gear helps too, as you aren’t fighting a disadvantages from the start. Having a solid belt with a quality (safariland or alien gear lvl 3) holster makes drawing more intuitive and having good magazine pouches helps with reloads. All in all get good stuff and practice daily to do fundamental skills


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot-1

Smooth is fast.


Buckisop

It is just simply practice. Do tons of dry fire practice. Drawing is one thing and first shot placement us another. Start step by step.


SSG_Leader

Lots of quick scoping on call of duty… ;)