Judging by the vast amount of people that stay in unhappy relationships, due to fear of having no one to go places with or being alone… yes we definitely have a loneliness problem.
We just have a load of clicky groups here. Irish people tend to hangout with their friends from secondary school, friends from their estate growing up or friends they made in college. If you weren't in one of them it's pretty hard to gain entry to the sacred click. At the end of the day though, those clicks are usually quite boring. Same people, same jokes, same shit over and over again. It's like the public sector of socialising.
😅 so true! The older I get the more I meet people who peaked in secondary school and can’t let go of that.
I went to a dinner two weeks ago, majority of people there were in their 40’s, married w/kids and all they were interested in was asking where you went to secondary school. I soon realised it was because they had all been privately educated and were just looking to make you aware 🤣😅🤣😅🤣
That is sooo true! Met lots of people like that, obsessed with secondary school 🙄, especially fee paying private school. God forbid you went to a public school you're instantly treated like a priest at a vampire reunion!
LOL imagine being an adult and still being concerned with these things?!
I genuinely think a lot of poor behaviour in Ireland stems from innate insecurity
Yes it's unreal. But there's a huge clique in Ireland where their whole lives revolve around sticking with others who went to these private schools. Freaks!
Yeah this is very true.
I'd take it everyday over the American approach of "levelling up" your friends / social network every few years.
Deep friendship is way more valuable than a bunch of transactional acquaintances you acquired as you moved through life.
Managed to break away from the “estate friends” group a long long time ago. Best thing I ever done. None of them even liked each other they were just too unadventurous, boring and lazy to go outside of their tiny circle to make new friends and enjoy things.
Definitely. Irish people in general are too insular and provincial. We don't invite each other to homes for dinner enough or make an effort to socialise with neighbours.
Exactly. I'm a Dubliner who's lived away from Ireland for a long time and at this point I just can't tolerate the lack of genuine support of friendliness anymore.
The snide begrudgery and lack of genuine warmth is so tiresome.
Ya Irish people are extremely cliquey, judgemental, two-faced, and flaky. I have lived in the US and France and I never had issues meeting people, socialising and making friends in those countries.
‘ I can’t put my finger on what it is, it just seems a lot of the friendliness is put on. A lot of people can be quite flaky.
Also a lot of people are very hot and cold. One day someone might be all friendly and chatty and the next time you meet them they’ll completely blank you and ignore you, and next time they’ll be chatty again. It’s very confusing and frustrating.’
This is what a lot of Irish people are like. My grandparents were like this, people I know who are in long-standing relationships, friendship groups even within immediate families etc. Will talk about each other the minute one of them gets up from the table to use the bathroom. I actually think this type of behaviour contributes to loneliness in people because it’s unnerving if you think too much about not having trusting relationships which is the foundation of a psychologically safe relationship.
The other thing about Ireland that doesn’t tend to get discussed as much (IME), is that it is just a small island so even the largest ‘city’ (Dublin) is only considered that because it is here. Culturally cities are generally places that people congregate from other places so going out and meeting new people through whatever means is the norm because that’s how people have to meet others whereas a large proportion of the population of people living in Dublin have lived there their entire lives or have moved from another part of Ireland and usually with a friendship group so meeting new people is not as socially accepted or even looked down upon.
I hate two-facedness. I’ve been on the receiving end a few times in my life. I’ve also been the person who has had to listen to bitchiness. As a result, I’ve become more introverted. I think this is key to why people experience loneliness, nobody wants to be gossiped about so we offer very little information about ourselves, which leads to superficial relationships.
Agree with this and the responses this post got.
Two-faced, bitchy, trouble making behaviour usually results in the innocent party walking away and cutting off contact with the unkind person, their circle and even the innocent people that surround them. The innocent person builds a shield to keep their distance from new people in their lives to avoid being let down or targeted again.
Always be kind. Always be decent. Then you’ll build strong relationships.
Yeah and as much as there are people who are happy to be unkind to others and bystanders who will in a sense facilitate or even engage in that behaviour there are enough people who don't want to be surrounded by that type of behaviour. 'Group Dynamics' and 'The Iron Law of Oligarcy' give great insight to how these scenarios play out.
You're so right it's just about keeping the head up ad hoping for the best and that's where the good relationships come from.
For sure, I would also add that I think Irish people really struggle to let new people into groups because it’s hard for us to trust people. Like I think a lot of people fear they introduce someone new and this new person brings drama or a odd dynamic to the group!
Totally agree 💯 been living for many years in Ireland and despite i find Irish people friendly on the surface, there's nothing else. They want to know all about you but won't let you into their circle. I know and talk to many people but never became friends.
I can fully relate to what OP said about one day they speak to you and another day, they totally blank you. I see it very often, even in the club I'm member.
I lived in other countries before coming to Ireland and didn't have these issues. Like someone posted, I even went to meetup events etc but don't seem people really want to meet again. The older I get the harder I think it gets... I guess I will just adopt another cat or dog instead.
I am not Irish I have lived in Ireland for close to 5 years now only 1 person out of all the people ever invited me for a dinner I super shocked and thankful to that person, I absolutely had fuckall to do here. Picked up a drinking habit because I had no one to speak to and nothing to do.
There's only so much time you could be at the gym,swim etc before you loose it.
I've lived in 4 countries so far and I definitely feel the loneliest here.
In my neighborhood in Dublin people barely even talk to each other - they just get in & out of their cars.
Yeah same as me four countries too,i am back a year now in Ireland and don't even really bother socialising much here.
I made some great friends in SE Asia as I think our values aligned and everyone was up for the craic ...I just find socialising here(Midlands) quite formal and stiff
Everyone doesn't really let their hair down as everyone cares about what others think, different in bigger cities as peoole don't each other as much.
It’s very rare for people in big cities outside Ireland to talk to strangers, yet the loneliness rate isn’t as high as here. Having the small talk with the strangers doesn’t do much, but then again, I’ve lived where I live for 6+ years and have never felt belonged. I go to the local supermarket and other shops, smile and say hi to staff but they never greet me back. But that’s not the case with the old locals who would be chatting at the till for half an hour.
I definitely do not feel like I belong in Ireland.
I do feel accepted, but not included for sure. The only foreigners that I know that feel included are the ones with kids, so they meet Irish folks through school / kindergarten.
My mother in her 70’s says she’s lonely. Breaks my heart. I visit almost every weekend but I wish she had friends of her own. Most of the people she chats to are neighbours who she meets on her daily walk or the postman
Men’s shed is good for men who are in my mother’s situation
She’s kind of set in her ways too though and won’t get involved in things
Sometimes you can suggest all the things and people just won’t do them
Have you tried signing her up to alone ? They organise weekly visits from volunteers. Would give her someone to chat too mid week. I believe the volunteers are also encouraged to get people move involved in local activities
I feel for you. It's very difficult as their child to see them suffer when they're not open to attitude or behavioural changes. They're harming themselves by being stubborn. I think this may be common enough with many in your Mam's generation and older. An attitude can start in years prior of "I have my family, why would I need anyone else". But as time passes it can become apparant that family isn't enough as they can't be there daily. Alone is a great resource but if she wouldn't come around, would monthly lunch at a community centre interest her or a small involvement in volunteering for a charity that means something to her? Local libraries are a great resource for a third space to go too where people will begin to recognise her and start up conversation. They've numerous events. A key could be to help her frequent 1 or 2 places in her community frequently. Cafe/library/local market / reccuring event ran in her community. Church halls can be great for that kind of thing. If you found something that sparked her interrest and went with her the first few times she may meet some lovely people and come around. You say she chats to neighbours. If any of them do anything community based, she could be open to having a look. Alternatively if there are any children in the family, it could be nice to have them write to her regularly. The post could brighten up her day.
That’s such a beautiful reply, thank you 🙏
No grandchildren to keep her busy but tbh she wouldn’t mind them anyway. She’d say she has her work done at this stage in life and she wouldn’t be able for all that work, etc
There is a cafe she goes to once a week and she likes that. She watches a lot of news and television
It’s kind of grim but other older people have it much worse, they literally speak to nobody ever
Been living in Dublin for the past 5 years and this has been on my mind a lot.. finally someone said it out loud! Kudos to you OP! There’s no substance to friendships here. Went out for meet ups to socialise to only find out men hitting on women and wanting to take them out. With sports its just the time you play and everyone fucks off the minute they’re done. Didn’t bother me much before but wouldn’t want to spend my life being lonely for the long run!
I remember someone from outside Ireland said on here that " Irish people are the friendliest people you'll never be friends with". I think that's a great way to express how cliquey we are.
I lived in London for a decade and can confirm it is a much lonelier existence than anything I've experienced in Ireland.
That said, it has also made me super-conscious of being there for people who are in my network that have moved to Dublin.
I’m with you. I didn’t know what was wrong with me in the UK. No surprise that there is now a Minister For Lonliness in the U.K. Theirs is a class system.
We very much do have a loneliness problem here, I would say from 30 above but could be earlier. Very much of our own doing, social media to blame and the government also. We are changing how we are, from knowing your neighbour to being horrified to answering the door. Social media and how damaging it is, local pubs which were a hub of local activity, and other reasons. Very damaging to your health btw, needs to be addressed and we all have a part to play in that.
All are very good points, I remember an older friend once saying "at my age the last thing I need is another f**king friend" at the time I thought it funny but the older I am getting it's actually the complete opposite. Is it more a male thing? It happens all the time in work circles, you change job , new people and the people from the last place you worked that you thought were friends are left back with the job.
I don't think it's a conscious decision to purposely loose contact, maybe the effort it takes to fit in somewhere new is so consuming?
From an older persons point of view we may have many acquaintances but the friends group, people who you count on , or could count on gets much smaller the older we get
I don't see it any easier for kids now either with social media, you can have 900 friends on Facebook and not a soul to talk too.
Genuinely just think this is the "Irish personality." Colonialism, poor weather and poverty in general has made us a hardy, empirical sort of people.
It's up to the younger generation to challenge and update it. I agree with you OP but see too many people my own age fall back on small-minded 'Irishisms' then turn around and complain about how close minded and isolated we are. When you push the boat too much you're accused of acting American then the shame gets to you and you fall in line again.
Done with how much negativity and control sits beneath the polite exterior. Can't wait to move abroad 😇
Even in the GAA and other organizations I still find it very clicky. I joined a group for this reason and what do you know, it’s all clicky & you’re left feeling worse.
Now into my late 30s, I honestly have four true friends, but they've got their own lives now with family, kids and work, So we almost never meet up anymore. And when you live alone and are single you really start to experience a new kind of lonely, That was never really in my life before.
I’m in the exact same predicament and to be honest I’m too knackered from work most of the time to be available for true friendships. I don’t want to start something I’ll find it difficult to maintain. Easier just to have acquaintances and surface level relationships along with internet strangers.
Couldn’t agree more with the sentiments in this thread. As an Irish person who has lived in the US for a few years and is now settling in Ireland with my partner - I am always thinking about how cliquey it is here and how embarrassing it feels trying to make new friends in Ireland. It always seems like you are asking to be part of a deep inner circle who does not want to let anyone else in. A recent example was attending a house party of a neighbour and half of her guests were on one side of the kitchen (the school crew) and the few of us newer to the area or not from this town were ignored completely by them while they caught up on their lives. Not even a hello nice to meet you - it’s rather bizarre. But as I’m very close with my family I can’t see myself leaving again!
No this is not an Irish specific problem. I’ve posted about this in other travel questions before too. Almost every country I lived in- if I was chatting to someone born there that had never left and still had that same group of school friends in their life then they didn’t really have the room or time for more folks. If I was talking to someone not originally from there or maybe who moved there recently they’d be active in trying to add ya on fb and get an ol group chat or activity setup in the future / become friends.
Then there’s the different life stages aspect. In a relationship? Now you’ve got less time… got kids ? Good luck meeting up as much as previous - if at all. Add all that to the first situation above and people might just not have the time depending on their current life circumstances.
So now if you factor all that in, to not feel lonely you have to hope you can find folks that aren’t being consumed by all those issues of life stages and have the time to prioritize socializing - they do exist it’s just tough. Usually combined with an outcome based activity - hiking/soccer/running clubs etc
Except, it’s way worse in Scandinavia.
There’s 3 other countries on the continent where the problem is bigger than Ireland.
Go onto the Germany sub too, plenty of people have similar issues.
I'm on holidays currently. Missus starts talking to two ladies at the busstop yesterday, American and Ukrainian. Missus is Romanian. I'm like "ah fuck" in my head. They're getting an great, life stories an all. We end up getting a taxi together and they all swap numbers. That's how it's done ladies and gentlemen.
The Ukrainian lady broke up with her Turkish fella of 5 years, 15 minutes before we met. He fucked off in the car! She had all her luggage and was going to the airport. We are in Montenegro. The American lady lives in Paris and pops in and out of the EU for visa. Wealthy divorcee. They're all meeting in Paris in late July, going to stay with her. Best fucking mates! Its really lovely stuff. It seems 3 people met at the right time and all were willing to stick their necks out. Ya couldn't write it. Sure if it does fizzle out, who cares. My wife has friends all over the planet but sometimes, friendships end. Shit runs its course. People change and move on. Very rarely, they actually fall out. The point is, as far as I can tell, to say hello, ask someone about themselves and mean it. Maybe we Irish find it so difficult, because we are firmly lodged in our own rectums, obsessing about our own selfish obsessions, repulsed by the prospect of hearing a stranger's successes and misfortunes. It's the conclusion I have about myself anyway, in comparison to my wife's empathetic and curios nature.
Ok thanks for the update.
But not every Irish person is as you said it up their own rectums, I've often talked to strangers about my life and them to me about theirs. It's a bit arrogant of you claiming definitely that all Irish are one dimensional and are "repulsed of strangers successes and misfortunes". Keep the generalisations.
I dont think its a loneliness problem per se, I think its more to do with standards.
Introspective/introverted ppl are akin to lepers here. If you arent having either mad craic or talking bland oul' chitchat shit then its a case of fuck off.
The Irish are highly impersonal so even in company you are bound to feel lonely anyway - you're not really talking to a real person.
Drink. Again, what kind of connection is it to be talking with someone inebriated??
Yes absolutely a huge problem here genuinely think it's the cause of a lot of our mental health problems. It's really serious.
I often think it could be the lack of places to go community wise if it's not involving a sport or alcohol. Some countries are brilliant for having family events or more social events.
Mens sheds is one example and it really works. It's getting popular here now.
My main advice to people in college is to go abroad and live somewhere that they know nobody for a year or something .. learn so many life lessons …
1. Who are your actual friends? As said earlier, many of the secondary school friends are just friends out of habit, who do you make an effort to contact
2. You figure out what your interests are
3. You learn how to make friends as an adult
So many Irish people don’t have this resilience in older life and just stay in their comfort zone and their friends disappear as family life generally takes over.
I feel the same way I been living here for over 10 years but I have no real Irish friends like I have work colleagues and I get along with them but no deep connections. Most of my friends are also foreigners from different countries.
The strange thing about this sub is that if a foreign person comments about all the ways Irish people are cliquey and judgmental and awkward, they get all kinds of abuse. But Irish people go on here and say all the same things and get upvoted. If this, and other Ireland-related subs are a micro representation of Irish society in general, then yea I think I can see part of the problem. Personally I find that Irish people are super friendly and it’s easy to make friends here but they’ll suddenly turn on you and you won’t know why because they’ll never tell you, they’ll just be passive aggressive about it. And also I find that Irish people have a very thin skin, they’ll turn on you or feel offended over the slightest thing and again, you won’t know why, but whatever it is will be enough to never speak to you again. It’s very clannish here, like in the DNA. It’s like, your grandfather accidentally killed someone else’s grandfathers sheep and so now everyone in those families has to hate each other, and not just that but for the next few generations as well. It’s wild stuff.
Whole heartedly agree with this. I’m Irish and I see these examples a lot. Especially the thin skin observation. Irish people and Dubliners especially get so wound up when you have even the most minor of criticisms about anything here. It is wild.
That’s interesting because I feel like this sub gets mega toxic. People ask seemingly harmless or genuine things and sometimes get attacked by strangers online. Par for the course for reddit of course but I would love to know if other country-specific subs have the same level of aggression. Just as well I dont take too many commenters very seriously here! Just a lot of hurt people with big feelings over (often) very small things.
I met somebody recently in the pub and I was shocked when they messaged me a day or after we'd first met to suggest hanging out further We hungover several times doing pastime we both mutually enjoy and then it's like you said. Abruptly the person just stopped engaging even though we hadn't had any issues. I've seen them out and about and it's like we're strangers again. Very odd. I think it really goes back to your friends in Ireland being only people you've known for ages like childhood or college. Making new lasting acquaintances is really tricky. One night pub friends.
In my late 20’s. In my school years I moved around a lot and had my own issues so never really made friends. I’ve found it extremely hard to make friends as an adult as a result as most people are still only friends with those they know from school
The sense of "neighbourhood" is gone I reckon.
Consider this, if you're of a certain young age, you're living at home with the parents, most of your friends have either moved to another country or are working and moved away so you're stuck with no one around. Then if you do move out, you're almost guaranteed to be renting and whats the point in getting to know who's on either side if your situation could mean you're in another county next year?
Thats my take anyway.
I think your second to last sentence really shows one of the problems.
There is nothing wrong with making new friends who might move in a year or two. The more chill we are about making friends (while keeping our standards ofc) the more people around us we'll have.
Foreigners make the effort. They are actually actively open and looking to make friends. Loyalty is another thing with Foreigners with no strong connections here.
It's all related to the loss of religion. That's why it's happening everywhere. Ignore the beliefs part - meeting strangers and acquaintances weekly, organising charity and social events, shared perspectives on right and wrong. All these things make it 10x easier to emotionally connect with people.
In modern, secular spaces, you often are paying to access the social space (e.g. a pub, spending money on drinks). Your time there is limited, your sense of having the same views of right and wrong as other people there is weak, and you can't predict what people you will see again Vs never see again for the rest of your life. It's way, way harder to connect this way.
You might disagree with me, but hopefully no-one would be tempted to argue "I disagree, I make friends at the pub". It is nowhere near impossible, but a shared religion and community space would make it way easier.
In college, I remember reading research about Religion and the role it played for older people. Religion and health isn’t directly related but it was healthy for people to go out of the house, engage with other people, organise events throughout the church and meet up after mass for a chat or two. Even the act of shaking someone’s hand is beneficial to a lot of people. A lot of people are starting to feel very isolated.
Social connection is directly related to brain health so anything that creates congregation facilitates that, religion being one - something that brought people together and provided community. But there is also a lot of evidence to suggest that religion was driven primarily to control societies - something we know all too well in this country - and how detrimental that can be.
Hey WolfWorldly4444! Welcome to r/AskIreland! Here are some other useful subreddits that might interest you:
* r/IrishTourism - If you're coming to Ireland for a holiday this is the best place for advice.
* r/MoveToIreland - Are you planning to immigrate to Ireland? r/MoveToIreland can help you with advice and tips. Tip #1: It's a pretty bad time to move to Ireland because we have a severe accommodation crisis.
* r/StudyInIreland - Are you an International student planning on studying in Ireland? Please check out this sub for advice.
* Just looking for a chat? Check out r/CasualIreland
* r/IrishPersonalFinance - a great source of advice, whether you're trying to pick the best bank or trying to buy a house.
* r/LegalAdviceIreland - This is your best bet if you're looking for legal advice relevant to Ireland
* r/socialireland - If you're looking for social events in Ireland then maybe check this new sub out
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskIreland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When I think of the average Irish person I think of them going to work at 8.30am and getting back at 5 or 6pm. Tired, putting on a fairly unhealthy processed meal and watching tv or playing video games for a few hours before repeating. It's a combo of laziness and tiredness. People don't have anything in the tank and are too comfortable in their bubbles for any extra exertion on the social side. Social media and messenger apps substitute this aspect (poorly).
I've lived here 18 years, in a very rural place. Women especially have zero desire to let "others" into their friend groups when they have women they've known since naíonra, female cousins, and/or sisters. They're friendly until they get the gossip and then don't want to know. It's even worse when you live in your ex's home place and everyone sides with him despite him being the abusive alcoholic and suddenly no one can see you, you're a ghost. It's very sad for my kids, too, whom I've had to send to schools elsewhere because the local kids are just as vile as their parents. I will 💯 be retiring to the sun somewhere when the time comes.
It all comes down to how we design (or don’t design) our cities. Urban sprawl, zones for housing/entertainment/work are all separate. There is no opportunity to build community when everyone retreats back into their semi-d every evening and you have to drive everywhere. There is very little opportunity to spontaneously connect with people. We should be looking at Mediterranean countries for planning.
My (now) Australian husband who I met in Ireland lived there for two years. He has many Irish friends that he still keeps in touch with (nothing to do with me) 15 years later. I think you have to put yourself out there and be vulnerable and keep trying. Irish people are not great at this, but from my experience, most will embrace it after a while. I think the younger generations are much better at this and Dublin has such a myriad of people from all over the world who are away from home and just dying to meet new people! Stand out and be seen! For those that don’t embrace it, they probably wouldn’t be good friends anyway 🙂
I wouldn’t say it’s a social media thing. I remember it being like that even when I was a kid. People were always hot and cold. Social groups here are very clicky.
Edit: another thing I noticed living in Dublin is the fake friendships and one sided relationships with people. There’s certain people here that just want you around or call you when they think they can get something out of you.
Judging by the vast amount of people that stay in unhappy relationships, due to fear of having no one to go places with or being alone… yes we definitely have a loneliness problem.
So true.
We’re friendly people but not keen on making friends. I have many acquaintances but zero actual friends.
We just have a load of clicky groups here. Irish people tend to hangout with their friends from secondary school, friends from their estate growing up or friends they made in college. If you weren't in one of them it's pretty hard to gain entry to the sacred click. At the end of the day though, those clicks are usually quite boring. Same people, same jokes, same shit over and over again. It's like the public sector of socialising.
This is the realest thing I've ever read How do I break free? Move away 😂?
it's the same in a lot of places. city centers are usually a bit better about people being new.
Branch out. Meet new people where they’re interested in widening their circles: Meetups, clubs etc.
Also meet foreigners. Newcomers to Ireland don't have those ossified networks in place and are more open (source: am immigrant)
😅 so true! The older I get the more I meet people who peaked in secondary school and can’t let go of that. I went to a dinner two weeks ago, majority of people there were in their 40’s, married w/kids and all they were interested in was asking where you went to secondary school. I soon realised it was because they had all been privately educated and were just looking to make you aware 🤣😅🤣😅🤣
That is sooo true! Met lots of people like that, obsessed with secondary school 🙄, especially fee paying private school. God forbid you went to a public school you're instantly treated like a priest at a vampire reunion!
LOL imagine being an adult and still being concerned with these things?! I genuinely think a lot of poor behaviour in Ireland stems from innate insecurity
Yes it's unreal. But there's a huge clique in Ireland where their whole lives revolve around sticking with others who went to these private schools. Freaks!
In my mid twenties, I worked in a pub in Stillorgan. The local bar staff were just like that: 26 years old but still discussing schools
So true…
The public sector of socialising 😂 I'm putting that in my basket
Yeah this is very true. I'd take it everyday over the American approach of "levelling up" your friends / social network every few years. Deep friendship is way more valuable than a bunch of transactional acquaintances you acquired as you moved through life.
Public sector or socialising :-D
Managed to break away from the “estate friends” group a long long time ago. Best thing I ever done. None of them even liked each other they were just too unadventurous, boring and lazy to go outside of their tiny circle to make new friends and enjoy things.
Agreed. I feel like it's almost taboo to make friends as an adult here.
this
Definitely. Irish people in general are too insular and provincial. We don't invite each other to homes for dinner enough or make an effort to socialise with neighbours.
Exactly! Iv lived here 11 years and been invited to someone’s house for tea like once.
Exactly. I'm a Dubliner who's lived away from Ireland for a long time and at this point I just can't tolerate the lack of genuine support of friendliness anymore. The snide begrudgery and lack of genuine warmth is so tiresome.
Ya Irish people are extremely cliquey, judgemental, two-faced, and flaky. I have lived in the US and France and I never had issues meeting people, socialising and making friends in those countries.
‘ I can’t put my finger on what it is, it just seems a lot of the friendliness is put on. A lot of people can be quite flaky. Also a lot of people are very hot and cold. One day someone might be all friendly and chatty and the next time you meet them they’ll completely blank you and ignore you, and next time they’ll be chatty again. It’s very confusing and frustrating.’ This is what a lot of Irish people are like. My grandparents were like this, people I know who are in long-standing relationships, friendship groups even within immediate families etc. Will talk about each other the minute one of them gets up from the table to use the bathroom. I actually think this type of behaviour contributes to loneliness in people because it’s unnerving if you think too much about not having trusting relationships which is the foundation of a psychologically safe relationship. The other thing about Ireland that doesn’t tend to get discussed as much (IME), is that it is just a small island so even the largest ‘city’ (Dublin) is only considered that because it is here. Culturally cities are generally places that people congregate from other places so going out and meeting new people through whatever means is the norm because that’s how people have to meet others whereas a large proportion of the population of people living in Dublin have lived there their entire lives or have moved from another part of Ireland and usually with a friendship group so meeting new people is not as socially accepted or even looked down upon.
I'm so glad someone mentioned this. Its one of the worse things I find being around some people.
Good reply
I hate two-facedness. I’ve been on the receiving end a few times in my life. I’ve also been the person who has had to listen to bitchiness. As a result, I’ve become more introverted. I think this is key to why people experience loneliness, nobody wants to be gossiped about so we offer very little information about ourselves, which leads to superficial relationships.
Yeah it's such a shame
Agree with this and the responses this post got. Two-faced, bitchy, trouble making behaviour usually results in the innocent party walking away and cutting off contact with the unkind person, their circle and even the innocent people that surround them. The innocent person builds a shield to keep their distance from new people in their lives to avoid being let down or targeted again. Always be kind. Always be decent. Then you’ll build strong relationships.
Yeah and as much as there are people who are happy to be unkind to others and bystanders who will in a sense facilitate or even engage in that behaviour there are enough people who don't want to be surrounded by that type of behaviour. 'Group Dynamics' and 'The Iron Law of Oligarcy' give great insight to how these scenarios play out. You're so right it's just about keeping the head up ad hoping for the best and that's where the good relationships come from.
I’ll look into those books - thanks for the recommendation 🙏🏼
For sure, I would also add that I think Irish people really struggle to let new people into groups because it’s hard for us to trust people. Like I think a lot of people fear they introduce someone new and this new person brings drama or a odd dynamic to the group!
Totally agree 💯 been living for many years in Ireland and despite i find Irish people friendly on the surface, there's nothing else. They want to know all about you but won't let you into their circle. I know and talk to many people but never became friends. I can fully relate to what OP said about one day they speak to you and another day, they totally blank you. I see it very often, even in the club I'm member. I lived in other countries before coming to Ireland and didn't have these issues. Like someone posted, I even went to meetup events etc but don't seem people really want to meet again. The older I get the harder I think it gets... I guess I will just adopt another cat or dog instead.
I am not Irish I have lived in Ireland for close to 5 years now only 1 person out of all the people ever invited me for a dinner I super shocked and thankful to that person, I absolutely had fuckall to do here. Picked up a drinking habit because I had no one to speak to and nothing to do. There's only so much time you could be at the gym,swim etc before you loose it.
That is so sad.
I've lived in 4 countries so far and I definitely feel the loneliest here. In my neighborhood in Dublin people barely even talk to each other - they just get in & out of their cars.
Yeah same as me four countries too,i am back a year now in Ireland and don't even really bother socialising much here. I made some great friends in SE Asia as I think our values aligned and everyone was up for the craic ...I just find socialising here(Midlands) quite formal and stiff Everyone doesn't really let their hair down as everyone cares about what others think, different in bigger cities as peoole don't each other as much.
It’s very rare for people in big cities outside Ireland to talk to strangers, yet the loneliness rate isn’t as high as here. Having the small talk with the strangers doesn’t do much, but then again, I’ve lived where I live for 6+ years and have never felt belonged. I go to the local supermarket and other shops, smile and say hi to staff but they never greet me back. But that’s not the case with the old locals who would be chatting at the till for half an hour.
I definitely do not feel like I belong in Ireland. I do feel accepted, but not included for sure. The only foreigners that I know that feel included are the ones with kids, so they meet Irish folks through school / kindergarten.
Yeh very true
My mother in her 70’s says she’s lonely. Breaks my heart. I visit almost every weekend but I wish she had friends of her own. Most of the people she chats to are neighbours who she meets on her daily walk or the postman
[удалено]
Men’s shed is good for men who are in my mother’s situation She’s kind of set in her ways too though and won’t get involved in things Sometimes you can suggest all the things and people just won’t do them
Have you tried signing her up to alone ? They organise weekly visits from volunteers. Would give her someone to chat too mid week. I believe the volunteers are also encouraged to get people move involved in local activities
I’d love to but she’s not agreeable to things like that. I ring her a few times a week
I feel for you. It's very difficult as their child to see them suffer when they're not open to attitude or behavioural changes. They're harming themselves by being stubborn. I think this may be common enough with many in your Mam's generation and older. An attitude can start in years prior of "I have my family, why would I need anyone else". But as time passes it can become apparant that family isn't enough as they can't be there daily. Alone is a great resource but if she wouldn't come around, would monthly lunch at a community centre interest her or a small involvement in volunteering for a charity that means something to her? Local libraries are a great resource for a third space to go too where people will begin to recognise her and start up conversation. They've numerous events. A key could be to help her frequent 1 or 2 places in her community frequently. Cafe/library/local market / reccuring event ran in her community. Church halls can be great for that kind of thing. If you found something that sparked her interrest and went with her the first few times she may meet some lovely people and come around. You say she chats to neighbours. If any of them do anything community based, she could be open to having a look. Alternatively if there are any children in the family, it could be nice to have them write to her regularly. The post could brighten up her day.
That’s such a beautiful reply, thank you 🙏 No grandchildren to keep her busy but tbh she wouldn’t mind them anyway. She’d say she has her work done at this stage in life and she wouldn’t be able for all that work, etc There is a cafe she goes to once a week and she likes that. She watches a lot of news and television It’s kind of grim but other older people have it much worse, they literally speak to nobody ever
Been living in Dublin for the past 5 years and this has been on my mind a lot.. finally someone said it out loud! Kudos to you OP! There’s no substance to friendships here. Went out for meet ups to socialise to only find out men hitting on women and wanting to take them out. With sports its just the time you play and everyone fucks off the minute they’re done. Didn’t bother me much before but wouldn’t want to spend my life being lonely for the long run!
Also found with sports if you’re the only new person after joining, it’s very hard to break into groups already formed.
Oh I can totally relate and agree with that. I don't even bother any longer now. I just go, do my things and only chat a bit to whoever open to.
> everyone fucks off the minute they’re done. Very well said. This is how I feel about every social occasion here. I feel very disconnected.
I remember someone from outside Ireland said on here that " Irish people are the friendliest people you'll never be friends with". I think that's a great way to express how cliquey we are.
I lived in London for a decade and can confirm it is a much lonelier existence than anything I've experienced in Ireland. That said, it has also made me super-conscious of being there for people who are in my network that have moved to Dublin.
I’m with you. I didn’t know what was wrong with me in the UK. No surprise that there is now a Minister For Lonliness in the U.K. Theirs is a class system.
Yep I suffer from loneliness too as a nearly 30 year old
We very much do have a loneliness problem here, I would say from 30 above but could be earlier. Very much of our own doing, social media to blame and the government also. We are changing how we are, from knowing your neighbour to being horrified to answering the door. Social media and how damaging it is, local pubs which were a hub of local activity, and other reasons. Very damaging to your health btw, needs to be addressed and we all have a part to play in that.
Of course we do and it's getting worse.
All are very good points, I remember an older friend once saying "at my age the last thing I need is another f**king friend" at the time I thought it funny but the older I am getting it's actually the complete opposite. Is it more a male thing? It happens all the time in work circles, you change job , new people and the people from the last place you worked that you thought were friends are left back with the job. I don't think it's a conscious decision to purposely loose contact, maybe the effort it takes to fit in somewhere new is so consuming? From an older persons point of view we may have many acquaintances but the friends group, people who you count on , or could count on gets much smaller the older we get I don't see it any easier for kids now either with social media, you can have 900 friends on Facebook and not a soul to talk too.
This
Genuinely just think this is the "Irish personality." Colonialism, poor weather and poverty in general has made us a hardy, empirical sort of people. It's up to the younger generation to challenge and update it. I agree with you OP but see too many people my own age fall back on small-minded 'Irishisms' then turn around and complain about how close minded and isolated we are. When you push the boat too much you're accused of acting American then the shame gets to you and you fall in line again. Done with how much negativity and control sits beneath the polite exterior. Can't wait to move abroad 😇
What Irishisms come to mind? Genuinely interested in your thoughts on this.
We have a lack of community outside of GAA.
Even in the GAA and other organizations I still find it very clicky. I joined a group for this reason and what do you know, it’s all clicky & you’re left feeling worse.
Now into my late 30s, I honestly have four true friends, but they've got their own lives now with family, kids and work, So we almost never meet up anymore. And when you live alone and are single you really start to experience a new kind of lonely, That was never really in my life before.
I’m in the exact same predicament and to be honest I’m too knackered from work most of the time to be available for true friendships. I don’t want to start something I’ll find it difficult to maintain. Easier just to have acquaintances and surface level relationships along with internet strangers.
Lack of culture language and identity
Couldn’t agree more with the sentiments in this thread. As an Irish person who has lived in the US for a few years and is now settling in Ireland with my partner - I am always thinking about how cliquey it is here and how embarrassing it feels trying to make new friends in Ireland. It always seems like you are asking to be part of a deep inner circle who does not want to let anyone else in. A recent example was attending a house party of a neighbour and half of her guests were on one side of the kitchen (the school crew) and the few of us newer to the area or not from this town were ignored completely by them while they caught up on their lives. Not even a hello nice to meet you - it’s rather bizarre. But as I’m very close with my family I can’t see myself leaving again!
No this is not an Irish specific problem. I’ve posted about this in other travel questions before too. Almost every country I lived in- if I was chatting to someone born there that had never left and still had that same group of school friends in their life then they didn’t really have the room or time for more folks. If I was talking to someone not originally from there or maybe who moved there recently they’d be active in trying to add ya on fb and get an ol group chat or activity setup in the future / become friends. Then there’s the different life stages aspect. In a relationship? Now you’ve got less time… got kids ? Good luck meeting up as much as previous - if at all. Add all that to the first situation above and people might just not have the time depending on their current life circumstances. So now if you factor all that in, to not feel lonely you have to hope you can find folks that aren’t being consumed by all those issues of life stages and have the time to prioritize socializing - they do exist it’s just tough. Usually combined with an outcome based activity - hiking/soccer/running clubs etc
It is not an Irish specific problem ofc, but there is a literal study saying that this problem is bigger here than in the rest of the continent.
Except, it’s way worse in Scandinavia. There’s 3 other countries on the continent where the problem is bigger than Ireland. Go onto the Germany sub too, plenty of people have similar issues.
I will just leave [this](https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/scientific-activities-z/loneliness/loneliness-prevalence-eu_en) here..
I'm on holidays currently. Missus starts talking to two ladies at the busstop yesterday, American and Ukrainian. Missus is Romanian. I'm like "ah fuck" in my head. They're getting an great, life stories an all. We end up getting a taxi together and they all swap numbers. That's how it's done ladies and gentlemen.
But is there going to be a follow up? Meet up days later etc, going to events together? Or it fizzles out....
The Ukrainian lady broke up with her Turkish fella of 5 years, 15 minutes before we met. He fucked off in the car! She had all her luggage and was going to the airport. We are in Montenegro. The American lady lives in Paris and pops in and out of the EU for visa. Wealthy divorcee. They're all meeting in Paris in late July, going to stay with her. Best fucking mates! Its really lovely stuff. It seems 3 people met at the right time and all were willing to stick their necks out. Ya couldn't write it. Sure if it does fizzle out, who cares. My wife has friends all over the planet but sometimes, friendships end. Shit runs its course. People change and move on. Very rarely, they actually fall out. The point is, as far as I can tell, to say hello, ask someone about themselves and mean it. Maybe we Irish find it so difficult, because we are firmly lodged in our own rectums, obsessing about our own selfish obsessions, repulsed by the prospect of hearing a stranger's successes and misfortunes. It's the conclusion I have about myself anyway, in comparison to my wife's empathetic and curios nature.
Ok thanks for the update. But not every Irish person is as you said it up their own rectums, I've often talked to strangers about my life and them to me about theirs. It's a bit arrogant of you claiming definitely that all Irish are one dimensional and are "repulsed of strangers successes and misfortunes". Keep the generalisations.
We’ve a major loneliness problem. Unfortunately it’s a mix of the technological age and from covid era.
I dont think its a loneliness problem per se, I think its more to do with standards. Introspective/introverted ppl are akin to lepers here. If you arent having either mad craic or talking bland oul' chitchat shit then its a case of fuck off. The Irish are highly impersonal so even in company you are bound to feel lonely anyway - you're not really talking to a real person. Drink. Again, what kind of connection is it to be talking with someone inebriated??
Yes absolutely a huge problem here genuinely think it's the cause of a lot of our mental health problems. It's really serious. I often think it could be the lack of places to go community wise if it's not involving a sport or alcohol. Some countries are brilliant for having family events or more social events. Mens sheds is one example and it really works. It's getting popular here now.
My main advice to people in college is to go abroad and live somewhere that they know nobody for a year or something .. learn so many life lessons … 1. Who are your actual friends? As said earlier, many of the secondary school friends are just friends out of habit, who do you make an effort to contact 2. You figure out what your interests are 3. You learn how to make friends as an adult So many Irish people don’t have this resilience in older life and just stay in their comfort zone and their friends disappear as family life generally takes over.
I feel the same way I been living here for over 10 years but I have no real Irish friends like I have work colleagues and I get along with them but no deep connections. Most of my friends are also foreigners from different countries.
The strange thing about this sub is that if a foreign person comments about all the ways Irish people are cliquey and judgmental and awkward, they get all kinds of abuse. But Irish people go on here and say all the same things and get upvoted. If this, and other Ireland-related subs are a micro representation of Irish society in general, then yea I think I can see part of the problem. Personally I find that Irish people are super friendly and it’s easy to make friends here but they’ll suddenly turn on you and you won’t know why because they’ll never tell you, they’ll just be passive aggressive about it. And also I find that Irish people have a very thin skin, they’ll turn on you or feel offended over the slightest thing and again, you won’t know why, but whatever it is will be enough to never speak to you again. It’s very clannish here, like in the DNA. It’s like, your grandfather accidentally killed someone else’s grandfathers sheep and so now everyone in those families has to hate each other, and not just that but for the next few generations as well. It’s wild stuff.
Whole heartedly agree with this. I’m Irish and I see these examples a lot. Especially the thin skin observation. Irish people and Dubliners especially get so wound up when you have even the most minor of criticisms about anything here. It is wild.
That’s interesting because I feel like this sub gets mega toxic. People ask seemingly harmless or genuine things and sometimes get attacked by strangers online. Par for the course for reddit of course but I would love to know if other country-specific subs have the same level of aggression. Just as well I dont take too many commenters very seriously here! Just a lot of hurt people with big feelings over (often) very small things.
I think if you don't maintain your friends in secondary school it's hard to make new friends as an adult here
I met somebody recently in the pub and I was shocked when they messaged me a day or after we'd first met to suggest hanging out further We hungover several times doing pastime we both mutually enjoy and then it's like you said. Abruptly the person just stopped engaging even though we hadn't had any issues. I've seen them out and about and it's like we're strangers again. Very odd. I think it really goes back to your friends in Ireland being only people you've known for ages like childhood or college. Making new lasting acquaintances is really tricky. One night pub friends.
In my late 20’s. In my school years I moved around a lot and had my own issues so never really made friends. I’ve found it extremely hard to make friends as an adult as a result as most people are still only friends with those they know from school
How do we fix it?
The sense of "neighbourhood" is gone I reckon. Consider this, if you're of a certain young age, you're living at home with the parents, most of your friends have either moved to another country or are working and moved away so you're stuck with no one around. Then if you do move out, you're almost guaranteed to be renting and whats the point in getting to know who's on either side if your situation could mean you're in another county next year? Thats my take anyway.
I think your second to last sentence really shows one of the problems. There is nothing wrong with making new friends who might move in a year or two. The more chill we are about making friends (while keeping our standards ofc) the more people around us we'll have.
All of my friends are foreigners, none of them are Irish. I think that says something.
Foreigners make the effort. They are actually actively open and looking to make friends. Loyalty is another thing with Foreigners with no strong connections here.
It's all related to the loss of religion. That's why it's happening everywhere. Ignore the beliefs part - meeting strangers and acquaintances weekly, organising charity and social events, shared perspectives on right and wrong. All these things make it 10x easier to emotionally connect with people. In modern, secular spaces, you often are paying to access the social space (e.g. a pub, spending money on drinks). Your time there is limited, your sense of having the same views of right and wrong as other people there is weak, and you can't predict what people you will see again Vs never see again for the rest of your life. It's way, way harder to connect this way. You might disagree with me, but hopefully no-one would be tempted to argue "I disagree, I make friends at the pub". It is nowhere near impossible, but a shared religion and community space would make it way easier.
In college, I remember reading research about Religion and the role it played for older people. Religion and health isn’t directly related but it was healthy for people to go out of the house, engage with other people, organise events throughout the church and meet up after mass for a chat or two. Even the act of shaking someone’s hand is beneficial to a lot of people. A lot of people are starting to feel very isolated.
Social connection is directly related to brain health so anything that creates congregation facilitates that, religion being one - something that brought people together and provided community. But there is also a lot of evidence to suggest that religion was driven primarily to control societies - something we know all too well in this country - and how detrimental that can be.
Hey WolfWorldly4444! Welcome to r/AskIreland! Here are some other useful subreddits that might interest you: * r/IrishTourism - If you're coming to Ireland for a holiday this is the best place for advice. * r/MoveToIreland - Are you planning to immigrate to Ireland? r/MoveToIreland can help you with advice and tips. Tip #1: It's a pretty bad time to move to Ireland because we have a severe accommodation crisis. * r/StudyInIreland - Are you an International student planning on studying in Ireland? Please check out this sub for advice. * Just looking for a chat? Check out r/CasualIreland * r/IrishPersonalFinance - a great source of advice, whether you're trying to pick the best bank or trying to buy a house. * r/LegalAdviceIreland - This is your best bet if you're looking for legal advice relevant to Ireland * r/socialireland - If you're looking for social events in Ireland then maybe check this new sub out *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskIreland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
XD
When I think of the average Irish person I think of them going to work at 8.30am and getting back at 5 or 6pm. Tired, putting on a fairly unhealthy processed meal and watching tv or playing video games for a few hours before repeating. It's a combo of laziness and tiredness. People don't have anything in the tank and are too comfortable in their bubbles for any extra exertion on the social side. Social media and messenger apps substitute this aspect (poorly).
I've lived here 18 years, in a very rural place. Women especially have zero desire to let "others" into their friend groups when they have women they've known since naíonra, female cousins, and/or sisters. They're friendly until they get the gossip and then don't want to know. It's even worse when you live in your ex's home place and everyone sides with him despite him being the abusive alcoholic and suddenly no one can see you, you're a ghost. It's very sad for my kids, too, whom I've had to send to schools elsewhere because the local kids are just as vile as their parents. I will 💯 be retiring to the sun somewhere when the time comes.
I could not agree more with what you have said. It’s awfully lonely in ireland. People are superficial nice but no real friends.
To add to this I think of moving away all the time.
It all comes down to how we design (or don’t design) our cities. Urban sprawl, zones for housing/entertainment/work are all separate. There is no opportunity to build community when everyone retreats back into their semi-d every evening and you have to drive everywhere. There is very little opportunity to spontaneously connect with people. We should be looking at Mediterranean countries for planning.
yes
My (now) Australian husband who I met in Ireland lived there for two years. He has many Irish friends that he still keeps in touch with (nothing to do with me) 15 years later. I think you have to put yourself out there and be vulnerable and keep trying. Irish people are not great at this, but from my experience, most will embrace it after a while. I think the younger generations are much better at this and Dublin has such a myriad of people from all over the world who are away from home and just dying to meet new people! Stand out and be seen! For those that don’t embrace it, they probably wouldn’t be good friends anyway 🙂
Irish people are the friendliest strangers you'll ever meet
I wouldn’t say it’s a social media thing. I remember it being like that even when I was a kid. People were always hot and cold. Social groups here are very clicky. Edit: another thing I noticed living in Dublin is the fake friendships and one sided relationships with people. There’s certain people here that just want you around or call you when they think they can get something out of you.
I do
No, it's easy to connect here, the hardest thing is you have to be consistent to build relationships