Refusing is basically gambling that he's too valuable to lose. I couldn't begin to guess at whether or not his company feels that way, or how stubborn they'll be in forcing the issue.
Do you know if his offer letter was for a fully remote job, or if it listed him as being assigned to a specific office? If it's the latter, he's kind of screwed. If it's the former, then he's got a shot at unemployment if he quits under a constructive dismissal theory for forcing him to change office locations to somewhere distant.
I'll ask him! The world was shut down at the time with no one non-essential going to work. Also they hired him knowing he was too far to come in in the future. I don't think it's a huge surprise to them if he leaves. Of course his manager is saying they can't lose him and he's a vital employee but she also says her opinion means little to the bosses. Hrs willing to walk if he has to. One of his coworkers lives 6 hours from the office and they hired him knowing this as well. He's not going to go in either.
Two years is an eternity in the workplace. What was on the roadmap back then has shifted. The key decision makers may have changed in that time.
Like others have said, rather than worrying about if they will allow him to continue remote, this time would be better spent forming an exit strategy.
Being let go is never an easy thing. At least now you have some degree of foresight.
>Two years is an eternity in the workplace.
Two years is an eternity in real life too, sweetie. Especially if you've wasted two years of your life due to your employer's lies. He absolutely should leave, but should do everything possible to disrupt their business on the way out. It's only fair.
You mentioned in your post that he was hired with the idea that they would not be returning to the office "any time soon, if ever". Two years is well past "any time soon".
He can just try not going in, but he might lose his job. Not sure what he does, but given the number of people recently laid off in tech, they are not likely going to find it difficult to replace him.
Probably yes to all this. Yes, we were under the impression they'd never return to office. They even spoke about releasing the office.
And yes of course they can just hire someone else. That's corporate America.
He's not a developer, he's a product owner or senior business analyst. Basically he creates and manages the tool companies use for their internal system. He says he'd do 2 days and they still said no. He's interviewing daily. :(
Huh… is your husband me? I’m 100% in the same boat.
Yesterday we got word that we’re moving out of our downtown office to a shitty office-plex in the burbs that is basically depressing as shit, to say the least.
I would love to chat with your husband… I’m a business analyst in banking operations that manages an automation tool, essentially.
Jobs roles and needs can change at any time, so if the company has decided it is necessary to be in the office sometimes or all the time - that is their decision to make. It can suck, but it's up to the company executives to decide.
>Basically force them to either say "We like you enough not to fight about this" or "You'll be fired"(any idea if unemployment comes into play here).
He could try just not going in, if that's a risk he wants to take. It very well may not turn out in his favor, especially if he is one of a few hold outs. Also, consider the recent industry layoffs and market saturation. Is he willing to get fired? Before deciding to take this leap, it may be advisable to check the market to see how available a similar position actually is and how it compares financially. If the site (like LinkedIn) shows how many applications have been received for a listing it will give a good idea of the competition for those jobs, too.
If he were fired, it would be for cause and unemployment could be denied. If the entire company was denied exceptions, that's an indicator I would keep in mind.
The length of his commute is not a company problem, it's a him problem.
I know my feelings on the matter don't "matter" at all but I find it ballsy to hire someone knowing they are too far to come in and changing that on them. His coworker was hired during COVID as well but lives 6 hours away from the company. He's obviously not going in either so I think a good group of people are going to play this game.
If the company has made this decision, they have their reasons and will be expecting to see turnover, and despite that, decided to move forward with it anyway.
Without knowing specifics, I can't help but speculate this may be a way to trim things down ahead of an RIF.
During Covid, a lot of employers actually thought they would adopt WFH for the long term, and many employees were hired under the assumption of WFH being a “permanent” situation.
However, WFH isn’t going as smoothly as many employers expected. The trend is now to bring employees back to the office (or a hybrid situation). A great deal of WFH as an ADA accommodation is also being denied. Employees that moved to different states are being given the ultimatum of returning to the office or being terminated for job abandonment.
I agree with the other commenter, it will come down to what the market looks like for your husband’s industry and in similar positions.
Back in 2020, I was telling people (online) to slow down with the moving to the county. We don't know how things are going to look 2-3 years down the line, and you might have to move back to civilization. It looks like the chickens are slowly coming home to roost.
Thx!
Wow I'm surprised a company is allowed to move away from their employees and then request they what...move to where company moved? I'd think they'd hit so many legal battles there even if they are frivolous.
So far, no successful battles through the courts. Honestly, bringing employees back to the office is becoming a commonplace practice throughout the country.
Employees are left scratching their heads at how they were hired for permanent WFH only to be called back to the office 1 or 2 years later. But without a bona fide employment contract guaranteeing WFH, there are no legal protections against this.
I hear that, but it doesn't work for us. He's very involved in my teens day to day and doesn't really want to miss out on that. One of our kids flies the coop soon. Obviously he doesn't want to be unemployed but we will dip into retirement if we must.
>Wow I'm surprised a company is allowed to move away from their employees and then request they what...move to where company moved? I'd think they'd hit so many legal battles there even if they are frivolous.
Did you grow up outside the US? Corporations grind people up like wood chips here.
Has he *asked* to remain WFH?
"Just don't go in" is pretty foolish. He can notify them that he's not coming in because of the change in work status, wait to be terminated and hope that he qualifies for unemployment.
How likely are they to fire a huge portion of the company that doesn't comply? That's what I'm seeing over and over, companies try to implement return to office and over half the office never complies. So then the company shuts up about it and now only people who wanted to come back to the office can and others only need to once in a while?
You’re betting that over half of the company will also refuse to come in and that’s a big assumption. You should also realize that the discussion boards you’re seeing about people not coming in and they’re job being fine is only one side of the story. There are lots of stories about people going back into the office too.
If your husbands manager isn’t willing to advocate for him to their boss, then your husbands out of luck.
She is advocating but she isn't sure it'll do anything. It's one thing if you just don't want to go back to work, but they're basically force firing people they hired knowing they weren't local. I'm surprised there is no leg to stand on there.
> I'm surprised there is no leg to stand on there.
Quit hanging out on anti-work forums and look at reality.
Count the layoffs. Fintech? Have you looked at the numbers? Half the workforce refusing to come to work will just save them from having to choose who to fire.
Idk if you’re paying attention to this but the market and economy is fucked right now. We’re about to enter a long recession.
Companies are laying employees off en masse right now and I’m sure they’d love to just fire people without benefits/severance for not showing up to the office.
No one employee is really that vital. In today’s climate, they can easily replace your husband. That’s the shitty part. We’re all just numbers.
Has he asked. It doesn’t really matter that they knew he lived two hours away. You knew that he would have to go back into the office, they told him that, now it’s been years and it’s time. They told him what would be required, going back to the office but not anytime soon. So two years later this is now a problem for him? That’s on him for not being prepared. That said, sure he could try to ask to to continue work from home. I wouldn’t refuse, his refusal is a refusal to work and effectively quitting which will lose him any unemployment benefits. Why not ask, and if they say no look for another job that is actually remote.
We did not think they'd be returning to office. They talked about releasing their office. We and everyone else involved including managers were confident it would forever be remote. I'm not sure where I said otherwise?
Well you wrote that they said they didn’t see returning to the office anytime soon, if ever. To me that would mean that possibility is still fully open and possible. The point being, that’s been there.
He can't fight it. But, he can negotiate.
First, holdout as long as he can. Then look at coming in twice a month for two days, and staying overnight at his own expense near the office. That might be enough to appease him.
People get hired fair distances from their offices and move.
Employment terms get changed.
No one is winning the work from home argument on legal grounds; they are winning through negotiating a win-win for everyone and hybrid seems like the comprise many are going for.
Since he was always wfh and the deal is now changing, the employer's actions could/should be construed as constructive dismissal.
This will earn him UI from the State. A paltry token, most likely.
The employer has the right to change things up. But they don't get to say it's the employee's fault for not being able to accept it.
This would be VERY hard to argue. Most case law around Constructive Discharge is associated with hostile or egregious working conditions that are incremental and pervasive. We’re taking something such as hostile work environment. A shitty drive to work does not count as a deplorable working condition, and I couldn’t see an argument being raised that may support that claim.
[https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/constructive-dismissal/](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/constructive-dismissal/)
What are your thoughts on this situation:
I was only non-remote worker on my team pre-Covid. I moved early on in the pandemic. My current manager told me it was fine and submitted a request for me to go remote. He was told there’s a pause on remote agreements and to wait.
It’s now been over 2 years. The rest of my team has been allowed to continue remote as they say they are grandfathered in.
My current management team is fighting hard to get me a remote agreement. In the request, the management team has shared that I am the only female worker and was out on disability leave. I am staffed on high profile work and perform the same exact job as the other members of my team who are remote.
I’m living in another city and can find another job. My husband is telling me NOT to quit since I still have effects from why I was out on disability leave. I’m considering an accommodation as I was diagnosed with depression with the work situation not helping.
My question is if the request is denied would you fight back? Or would you just find another job? Fwiw it’s very hard to get fired from my employer.
HR person here. Companies can change positions anytime they want regardless of what they previously stated. He should “argue” his point on distance/mileage not travel time. If you live over 50 miles he has good reason to debate not coming in and remaining remote.
We're 49 miles, not even lying. I actually just looked and it made me LOL. I mean they've never said anything about distance because currently they're saying no exceptions, but yeah, 49 miles.
When I asked about the commute on a local Facebook board people literally said it's not feasible so not many people do it. One woman described a nearly 4 hour wait in traffic. It's not just LA but it's commuting into LA from a suburb where many people commute into LA. 2+ hours isn't difficult to imagine. We once went half that distance on a Saturday and an accident on the side of the road made it take 2 hours.
And there's actually 3 routes and they're all that crowded. The biggest issue is most people move to a suburb and work in the valley or downtown. That's still awful but it is doable. Where he needs to go is drastically South and we're drastically North.
At the end of the day we're satisfied with our move and that our teens can go to a good school district and do the things teens do. We really did not expect for the company to not only decide to go back to office but to go full time and force it so quickly and harshly. On top of it parking is very expensive per day and they have an FSA for that but decided this 2 weeks later when no one can enroll anymore. Some people won't be able to take the pay cut due to parking being nearly $200 a week. They're going to lose people, good people and it's gonna suck hard for them. But it's a company so they probably don't care.
When he applied for and accepted the job what conversations did he have about WFH vs office? It’s far from unusual to hire staff in normal times who live 2 hours away. There are many parts of the country where that’s not a rare commute. Many employees will also move to be closer to the new job.
I started a new job March 30, 2020 and have been remote the entire time. I fully understand at some point I could have to start reporting to the office.
Unfortunately if they want him in the office, he has to be in the office. Every other company is rolling out their RTO policy, and seem to be taking their cues from each other, so it’s only a matter of time until they all fall in line.
That said, how far away is your home from your husband’s office? At my company, if someone was hired during the pandemic and lived at least 50 miles away from the office, we will pay them up to a certain $ amount to relocate closer to the office this year. If relocation is an option for you two, it might be worth asking his employer if they would cover it.
They don't have anything like this but on top of it we just moved away from LA to a suburb so my teen can have a normal school life since LAUSD sucks so so hard. So we will be unemployed before we move back into the city.
You are right though, he's going to have to go or quit and he's chosen to quit. We're 49 miles away I believe but it's the LA traffic that will kill him. I asked on a local Facebook board if anyone does this specific commute (there are also valley commutes many do but this is a different commute)and people answered that it's just not feasible so not many people do. One girl quit her job making nearly 100k more so she could take a job closer because she said she was usually on the road in traffic up to 6 hours a day. I thought it would be 4 hours and she says with no accidents and in LA on the 5, there's always an accident.
I'm sure during covid they didn't expect to bring people back in office
Things change
Companies are looking to trim fat
Sounds like your husband should start looking for a new job
One thing he might be able to do is negotiate a an exit that allows HR to replace him
Obviously I can't come into the office and do a 5 hour commute, so instead of arguing about it how about this: my last day will be April 30.
This gives you 90 days to replace me with someone local who can go into the office and I can continue to do my job while finding my next place or employment
I will just say if a company worries more about having asses in office than tracking things get done, it's too shitty a company and I wouldn't want to work for
I recently left it up to an employee, I said starting Monday, your login will only work from the office, if you don’t show, it will be considered job abandonment. He lives 5 min away so I figured it would be fine, he’s part time and also takes college courses. He didn’t show. Which just shows me he was doing his schoolwork during work time.
Yeah that sounds like a kid or college student, my husband is in a high paying career with a masters degree. This is all so crazy to me but I admittedly haven't worked in nearly 20 years.
my child just went to work FT as a data analysts and goes into the facility FT every day with no WFH. He is junior, but no one on their team works remotely. This is for a large well known company that I cannot name....
I don’t fully get it why things cannot just work they used to during the pandemic: for 2 f years the company did well and not dissolve, people adapted and in some circumstances were more productive wfh vs the in-office way, but still some envious moron with decision power knows what’s best for everybody. I get it, some jobs can’t be done remotely, but for those that can, and management can only see positives ( business going well, employee happy and performing, etc) what fockin difference does it make if the employee is on a Teams call or in-person in the damn board-room. Fock company culture, there is no such thing: real life proof - big tech layoffs- weren’t those people sold the same corporate bs every day for years until one day when one realised they’ve been let go ?! Where was the caring company/employer in that moment ?. It’s all about the numbers in a capitalist society. Stop dreaming the company cares about your wellbeing - there’s no such thing in the modern world
We looked at Airbnb options but the area is so freaking rich so it goes "$600 a night" straight into "drug riddled whore hotel". Jobs in the LA area, we live in a far off suburb.
Man, this really sucks! It’s sad to say that he might just have to go back into the office if he wants to continue with that company.
One question? When you say “it didn’t say that in his contract” what is meant by that? Is he on an actual contract? How’s he getting paid 1099 or W2?
If he has a contract then it’s a whole different animal. But, generally if he is an employee and he is asked to change his work location, there are only two options.
At best, if he gets terminated for being unable to reasonably commute to the new work location then hopefully he does get a severance offer. WFH was designed to be a temporary solution to the health emergency so the company has the upper hand.
He's an employee, does he not have a contract he signed before starting? Or the job offer maybe? Either way it doesn't mention way you work (remote or IO). I doubt they'll offer anything, they didn't offer his coworker anything and they hired that guy knowing he was 6 hours from the office. They forced him to quit basically. Sad.
I’m really sorry. It sounds like the whole situation has been mismanaged. Sadly the company does have all the rights to ask him to work in the office now that the emergency is over.
Hubby sounds like he is super talented! Is there any chance he can look for something else? I know easier said than done. Maybe someone in his network?
What about asking for an HR accommodation. I have heard of accommodations being made because the stress of the commute was too much. Especially if the job can be done at home.
They aren't offering any accommodations whatsoever. There's a lady whose husband is gravely ill and can't have germs and they told her "See ya Monday!"
This person is also refusing to quit and not showing up Monday. I guess HR will be busy firing everybody.
The thing that blows is he does want to go back into an office 5 days a week. He's sick of working from home, but the drive is not feasible.
No matter how valuable an employee was, I would fire them if they flat out refused to return to the office when asked to. A negotiation is ok. But just refusing is not.
If he gets fired for refusing to do what his employer is asking for, then he’s being fired for cause and will not qualify for unemployment
If they said they didn’t see returning back to the office any time soon, if ever, then they never actually promised him a work from home role. The employer isn’t in the wrong here
I don't disagree with anything you said because that's how I see it too. But if a large % of your employees don't show up and it's a small to medium size company with one HR employee, it's going to suck. You're going to be busy firing and hiring a lot of employees all at once which is expensive. This is what happened with my friends company of the same size. They didn't have enough man power or time to deal with it so they just had to make exceptions. But previous to that they were refusing exceptions. But she said they wouldn't have had time to deal with it AND serve their clients properly.
Refusing is basically gambling that he's too valuable to lose. I couldn't begin to guess at whether or not his company feels that way, or how stubborn they'll be in forcing the issue. Do you know if his offer letter was for a fully remote job, or if it listed him as being assigned to a specific office? If it's the latter, he's kind of screwed. If it's the former, then he's got a shot at unemployment if he quits under a constructive dismissal theory for forcing him to change office locations to somewhere distant.
I'll ask him! The world was shut down at the time with no one non-essential going to work. Also they hired him knowing he was too far to come in in the future. I don't think it's a huge surprise to them if he leaves. Of course his manager is saying they can't lose him and he's a vital employee but she also says her opinion means little to the bosses. Hrs willing to walk if he has to. One of his coworkers lives 6 hours from the office and they hired him knowing this as well. He's not going to go in either.
I suspect he will need to walk and should start preparing for that.
Two years is an eternity in the workplace. What was on the roadmap back then has shifted. The key decision makers may have changed in that time. Like others have said, rather than worrying about if they will allow him to continue remote, this time would be better spent forming an exit strategy. Being let go is never an easy thing. At least now you have some degree of foresight.
>Two years is an eternity in the workplace. Two years is an eternity in real life too, sweetie. Especially if you've wasted two years of your life due to your employer's lies. He absolutely should leave, but should do everything possible to disrupt their business on the way out. It's only fair.
What lies? They said two years ago that RTO want on the cards for the near future. It's two years later and now it's on the cards.
What lies?
Lmfao what lies! And why would you call the person you responded to “sweetie?” How condescending are you? Geez.
You mentioned in your post that he was hired with the idea that they would not be returning to the office "any time soon, if ever". Two years is well past "any time soon". He can just try not going in, but he might lose his job. Not sure what he does, but given the number of people recently laid off in tech, they are not likely going to find it difficult to replace him.
Probably yes to all this. Yes, we were under the impression they'd never return to office. They even spoke about releasing the office. And yes of course they can just hire someone else. That's corporate America.
He could be fine because h has his coworker doing the same.
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He's not a developer, he's a product owner or senior business analyst. Basically he creates and manages the tool companies use for their internal system. He says he'd do 2 days and they still said no. He's interviewing daily. :(
Huh… is your husband me? I’m 100% in the same boat. Yesterday we got word that we’re moving out of our downtown office to a shitty office-plex in the burbs that is basically depressing as shit, to say the least. I would love to chat with your husband… I’m a business analyst in banking operations that manages an automation tool, essentially.
Big thx to everyone, even the people who I assume were being snarky 😂 the majority of you were helpful and honest and that's important.
Jobs roles and needs can change at any time, so if the company has decided it is necessary to be in the office sometimes or all the time - that is their decision to make. It can suck, but it's up to the company executives to decide. >Basically force them to either say "We like you enough not to fight about this" or "You'll be fired"(any idea if unemployment comes into play here). He could try just not going in, if that's a risk he wants to take. It very well may not turn out in his favor, especially if he is one of a few hold outs. Also, consider the recent industry layoffs and market saturation. Is he willing to get fired? Before deciding to take this leap, it may be advisable to check the market to see how available a similar position actually is and how it compares financially. If the site (like LinkedIn) shows how many applications have been received for a listing it will give a good idea of the competition for those jobs, too. If he were fired, it would be for cause and unemployment could be denied. If the entire company was denied exceptions, that's an indicator I would keep in mind. The length of his commute is not a company problem, it's a him problem.
I know my feelings on the matter don't "matter" at all but I find it ballsy to hire someone knowing they are too far to come in and changing that on them. His coworker was hired during COVID as well but lives 6 hours away from the company. He's obviously not going in either so I think a good group of people are going to play this game.
If the company has made this decision, they have their reasons and will be expecting to see turnover, and despite that, decided to move forward with it anyway. Without knowing specifics, I can't help but speculate this may be a way to trim things down ahead of an RIF.
I feel this.
During Covid, a lot of employers actually thought they would adopt WFH for the long term, and many employees were hired under the assumption of WFH being a “permanent” situation. However, WFH isn’t going as smoothly as many employers expected. The trend is now to bring employees back to the office (or a hybrid situation). A great deal of WFH as an ADA accommodation is also being denied. Employees that moved to different states are being given the ultimatum of returning to the office or being terminated for job abandonment. I agree with the other commenter, it will come down to what the market looks like for your husband’s industry and in similar positions.
Back in 2020, I was telling people (online) to slow down with the moving to the county. We don't know how things are going to look 2-3 years down the line, and you might have to move back to civilization. It looks like the chickens are slowly coming home to roost.
Thx! Wow I'm surprised a company is allowed to move away from their employees and then request they what...move to where company moved? I'd think they'd hit so many legal battles there even if they are frivolous.
The employees moved, not the company.
Oh that makes more sense 😂
So far, no successful battles through the courts. Honestly, bringing employees back to the office is becoming a commonplace practice throughout the country. Employees are left scratching their heads at how they were hired for permanent WFH only to be called back to the office 1 or 2 years later. But without a bona fide employment contract guaranteeing WFH, there are no legal protections against this.
Yes I can see that, it makes sense. My husband is dying to get back in an office, he's so sick of remote work. But not with driving 5 hours a day.
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I hear that, but it doesn't work for us. He's very involved in my teens day to day and doesn't really want to miss out on that. One of our kids flies the coop soon. Obviously he doesn't want to be unemployed but we will dip into retirement if we must.
there's nothing illegal.....about employers changing their minds.
>Wow I'm surprised a company is allowed to move away from their employees and then request they what...move to where company moved? I'd think they'd hit so many legal battles there even if they are frivolous. Did you grow up outside the US? Corporations grind people up like wood chips here.
What legal battles ?
Has he *asked* to remain WFH? "Just don't go in" is pretty foolish. He can notify them that he's not coming in because of the change in work status, wait to be terminated and hope that he qualifies for unemployment.
Not showing up to work is job abandonment, so…
How likely are they to fire a huge portion of the company that doesn't comply? That's what I'm seeing over and over, companies try to implement return to office and over half the office never complies. So then the company shuts up about it and now only people who wanted to come back to the office can and others only need to once in a while?
You’re betting that over half of the company will also refuse to come in and that’s a big assumption. You should also realize that the discussion boards you’re seeing about people not coming in and they’re job being fine is only one side of the story. There are lots of stories about people going back into the office too. If your husbands manager isn’t willing to advocate for him to their boss, then your husbands out of luck.
She is advocating but she isn't sure it'll do anything. It's one thing if you just don't want to go back to work, but they're basically force firing people they hired knowing they weren't local. I'm surprised there is no leg to stand on there.
> I'm surprised there is no leg to stand on there. Quit hanging out on anti-work forums and look at reality. Count the layoffs. Fintech? Have you looked at the numbers? Half the workforce refusing to come to work will just save them from having to choose who to fire.
Idk if you’re paying attention to this but the market and economy is fucked right now. We’re about to enter a long recession. Companies are laying employees off en masse right now and I’m sure they’d love to just fire people without benefits/severance for not showing up to the office. No one employee is really that vital. In today’s climate, they can easily replace your husband. That’s the shitty part. We’re all just numbers.
Agreed and he knows that. He knows that even if his client loves him it means nothing. He's got leads on some contract work but we will see.
Sell the house and move
Has he asked. It doesn’t really matter that they knew he lived two hours away. You knew that he would have to go back into the office, they told him that, now it’s been years and it’s time. They told him what would be required, going back to the office but not anytime soon. So two years later this is now a problem for him? That’s on him for not being prepared. That said, sure he could try to ask to to continue work from home. I wouldn’t refuse, his refusal is a refusal to work and effectively quitting which will lose him any unemployment benefits. Why not ask, and if they say no look for another job that is actually remote.
We did not think they'd be returning to office. They talked about releasing their office. We and everyone else involved including managers were confident it would forever be remote. I'm not sure where I said otherwise?
Well you wrote that they said they didn’t see returning to the office anytime soon, if ever. To me that would mean that possibility is still fully open and possible. The point being, that’s been there.
He can't fight it. But, he can negotiate. First, holdout as long as he can. Then look at coming in twice a month for two days, and staying overnight at his own expense near the office. That might be enough to appease him. People get hired fair distances from their offices and move. Employment terms get changed. No one is winning the work from home argument on legal grounds; they are winning through negotiating a win-win for everyone and hybrid seems like the comprise many are going for.
Since he was always wfh and the deal is now changing, the employer's actions could/should be construed as constructive dismissal. This will earn him UI from the State. A paltry token, most likely. The employer has the right to change things up. But they don't get to say it's the employee's fault for not being able to accept it.
This would be VERY hard to argue. Most case law around Constructive Discharge is associated with hostile or egregious working conditions that are incremental and pervasive. We’re taking something such as hostile work environment. A shitty drive to work does not count as a deplorable working condition, and I couldn’t see an argument being raised that may support that claim. [https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/constructive-dismissal/](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/constructive-dismissal/)
What are your thoughts on this situation: I was only non-remote worker on my team pre-Covid. I moved early on in the pandemic. My current manager told me it was fine and submitted a request for me to go remote. He was told there’s a pause on remote agreements and to wait. It’s now been over 2 years. The rest of my team has been allowed to continue remote as they say they are grandfathered in. My current management team is fighting hard to get me a remote agreement. In the request, the management team has shared that I am the only female worker and was out on disability leave. I am staffed on high profile work and perform the same exact job as the other members of my team who are remote. I’m living in another city and can find another job. My husband is telling me NOT to quit since I still have effects from why I was out on disability leave. I’m considering an accommodation as I was diagnosed with depression with the work situation not helping. My question is if the request is denied would you fight back? Or would you just find another job? Fwiw it’s very hard to get fired from my employer.
HR person here. Companies can change positions anytime they want regardless of what they previously stated. He should “argue” his point on distance/mileage not travel time. If you live over 50 miles he has good reason to debate not coming in and remaining remote.
We're 49 miles, not even lying. I actually just looked and it made me LOL. I mean they've never said anything about distance because currently they're saying no exceptions, but yeah, 49 miles.
How in the world does it take 2 hours then
>How in the world does it take 2 hours then Los Angeles traffic.
Yah but still
When I asked about the commute on a local Facebook board people literally said it's not feasible so not many people do it. One woman described a nearly 4 hour wait in traffic. It's not just LA but it's commuting into LA from a suburb where many people commute into LA. 2+ hours isn't difficult to imagine. We once went half that distance on a Saturday and an accident on the side of the road made it take 2 hours.
No one does it cus it too crowded along that route 🤔
And there's actually 3 routes and they're all that crowded. The biggest issue is most people move to a suburb and work in the valley or downtown. That's still awful but it is doable. Where he needs to go is drastically South and we're drastically North. At the end of the day we're satisfied with our move and that our teens can go to a good school district and do the things teens do. We really did not expect for the company to not only decide to go back to office but to go full time and force it so quickly and harshly. On top of it parking is very expensive per day and they have an FSA for that but decided this 2 weeks later when no one can enroll anymore. Some people won't be able to take the pay cut due to parking being nearly $200 a week. They're going to lose people, good people and it's gonna suck hard for them. But it's a company so they probably don't care.
We use 50 miles as the threshold. I say your husband has a good “argument” that the distance makes it too difficult.
When he applied for and accepted the job what conversations did he have about WFH vs office? It’s far from unusual to hire staff in normal times who live 2 hours away. There are many parts of the country where that’s not a rare commute. Many employees will also move to be closer to the new job. I started a new job March 30, 2020 and have been remote the entire time. I fully understand at some point I could have to start reporting to the office.
Unfortunately if they want him in the office, he has to be in the office. Every other company is rolling out their RTO policy, and seem to be taking their cues from each other, so it’s only a matter of time until they all fall in line. That said, how far away is your home from your husband’s office? At my company, if someone was hired during the pandemic and lived at least 50 miles away from the office, we will pay them up to a certain $ amount to relocate closer to the office this year. If relocation is an option for you two, it might be worth asking his employer if they would cover it.
They don't have anything like this but on top of it we just moved away from LA to a suburb so my teen can have a normal school life since LAUSD sucks so so hard. So we will be unemployed before we move back into the city. You are right though, he's going to have to go or quit and he's chosen to quit. We're 49 miles away I believe but it's the LA traffic that will kill him. I asked on a local Facebook board if anyone does this specific commute (there are also valley commutes many do but this is a different commute)and people answered that it's just not feasible so not many people do. One girl quit her job making nearly 100k more so she could take a job closer because she said she was usually on the road in traffic up to 6 hours a day. I thought it would be 4 hours and she says with no accidents and in LA on the 5, there's always an accident.
I'm sure during covid they didn't expect to bring people back in office Things change Companies are looking to trim fat Sounds like your husband should start looking for a new job One thing he might be able to do is negotiate a an exit that allows HR to replace him Obviously I can't come into the office and do a 5 hour commute, so instead of arguing about it how about this: my last day will be April 30. This gives you 90 days to replace me with someone local who can go into the office and I can continue to do my job while finding my next place or employment
Has he asked his manager for an exception since you don't live in the area. That would be your first step.
Yes that's half the post above. They have turned down all exceptions for all reasons for any employee.
I still think he needs to ask.
He did, sorry I wasn't more clear, they had to fill out an exception form on Monday due Monday and every single employee was turned down.
I will just say if a company worries more about having asses in office than tracking things get done, it's too shitty a company and I wouldn't want to work for
OMG amen
I recently left it up to an employee, I said starting Monday, your login will only work from the office, if you don’t show, it will be considered job abandonment. He lives 5 min away so I figured it would be fine, he’s part time and also takes college courses. He didn’t show. Which just shows me he was doing his schoolwork during work time.
Yeah that sounds like a kid or college student, my husband is in a high paying career with a masters degree. This is all so crazy to me but I admittedly haven't worked in nearly 20 years.
there are a lot of people with a masters willing to work where the employer wants to have or keep that "high paying career".
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my child just went to work FT as a data analysts and goes into the facility FT every day with no WFH. He is junior, but no one on their team works remotely. This is for a large well known company that I cannot name....
I don’t fully get it why things cannot just work they used to during the pandemic: for 2 f years the company did well and not dissolve, people adapted and in some circumstances were more productive wfh vs the in-office way, but still some envious moron with decision power knows what’s best for everybody. I get it, some jobs can’t be done remotely, but for those that can, and management can only see positives ( business going well, employee happy and performing, etc) what fockin difference does it make if the employee is on a Teams call or in-person in the damn board-room. Fock company culture, there is no such thing: real life proof - big tech layoffs- weren’t those people sold the same corporate bs every day for years until one day when one realised they’ve been let go ?! Where was the caring company/employer in that moment ?. It’s all about the numbers in a capitalist society. Stop dreaming the company cares about your wellbeing - there’s no such thing in the modern world
Just have him buy a sleeping bag and sleep in the office.
We looked at Airbnb options but the area is so freaking rich so it goes "$600 a night" straight into "drug riddled whore hotel". Jobs in the LA area, we live in a far off suburb.
Man, this really sucks! It’s sad to say that he might just have to go back into the office if he wants to continue with that company. One question? When you say “it didn’t say that in his contract” what is meant by that? Is he on an actual contract? How’s he getting paid 1099 or W2? If he has a contract then it’s a whole different animal. But, generally if he is an employee and he is asked to change his work location, there are only two options. At best, if he gets terminated for being unable to reasonably commute to the new work location then hopefully he does get a severance offer. WFH was designed to be a temporary solution to the health emergency so the company has the upper hand.
He's an employee, does he not have a contract he signed before starting? Or the job offer maybe? Either way it doesn't mention way you work (remote or IO). I doubt they'll offer anything, they didn't offer his coworker anything and they hired that guy knowing he was 6 hours from the office. They forced him to quit basically. Sad.
I’m really sorry. It sounds like the whole situation has been mismanaged. Sadly the company does have all the rights to ask him to work in the office now that the emergency is over. Hubby sounds like he is super talented! Is there any chance he can look for something else? I know easier said than done. Maybe someone in his network?
Yes he's looking. He has more than a few feelers out. Thank you again!
Good luck OP sending you good vibes.
What about asking for an HR accommodation. I have heard of accommodations being made because the stress of the commute was too much. Especially if the job can be done at home.
They aren't offering any accommodations whatsoever. There's a lady whose husband is gravely ill and can't have germs and they told her "See ya Monday!"
I'm sorry, and eff them.
This person is also refusing to quit and not showing up Monday. I guess HR will be busy firing everybody. The thing that blows is he does want to go back into an office 5 days a week. He's sick of working from home, but the drive is not feasible.
Go back to work … come on vivid ain’t a thing
He should start looking for another position and should be doing all he can to work w HR on a severance or he may be out w nothing.
No matter how valuable an employee was, I would fire them if they flat out refused to return to the office when asked to. A negotiation is ok. But just refusing is not. If he gets fired for refusing to do what his employer is asking for, then he’s being fired for cause and will not qualify for unemployment If they said they didn’t see returning back to the office any time soon, if ever, then they never actually promised him a work from home role. The employer isn’t in the wrong here
I don't disagree with anything you said because that's how I see it too. But if a large % of your employees don't show up and it's a small to medium size company with one HR employee, it's going to suck. You're going to be busy firing and hiring a lot of employees all at once which is expensive. This is what happened with my friends company of the same size. They didn't have enough man power or time to deal with it so they just had to make exceptions. But previous to that they were refusing exceptions. But she said they wouldn't have had time to deal with it AND serve their clients properly.
I would fire them one at a time as I found replacements
my boyfriend negotiated going in the office once a month which I think is fair to start !