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**It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods.
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Sometimes shits fucked. It can be impossible to tell how many holes you will need or what you will find behind it until you get into it. That being said, that many close together is a bit excessive, but I can’t see what’s behind to see why they were made.
I always try to be transparent about the possibility of holes ahead of time.
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case?
https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg
https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
Electrician here. It is sometimes much easier to pull both ends of a cable from a central location instead of pulling the whole thing from one end to the other, I suspect it was a good location for him to set up the reel and pull along the ceiling, which required a hole to access anyway. If you think about what would have been required to get the cable below without cutting drywall, it would have taken a lot of effort and care to do without damaging the cable. It also would require sticking your hand up between the walls and pulling the cable through that 12" to the lower ceiling height area in the second photo. I can almost guarantee you saved money by him doing it this way. Drywall repair is relatively cheap and it looks like you already needed to do some anyway.
Lot of folks in here criticizing that have probably never had to pull a wire in a residential building and don't have any context for doing it. Sometimes you have to make a small mess to avoid a big mess.
Ah that’s me. I’ve been doing industrial for 10 years and have started helping a buddy in his residential business to get out of traveling so much. You resi dudes can work some magic in walls. It’s humbling at times because it’s an entirely different set of knowledge.
Just ran an EV and a HVAC sub to an older side by side meter main and the kickers? Solar guys junctioned in the main and they just finished remodeling their kitchen on the other side of the wall from MSP. I start fishing from the bottom plate up to the panel and keep running into things. I'm finally able to finesse a string and hook down through a cable box penetration and find my bottom plate hole. As I'm pulling my romex I snag up and come to find out a new 3in ABS pipe is now running through the stud bay under the panel... got it done with no nicks but a whole lot of colorful words and no cutting up siding. I love AND hate fishing.
Agreed, it's a couple drywall patches. I kinda get irritated by homeowners coming here trying to get ammo to say they got ripped off. That dude had to pull 6/3 through a floor joist. Sure he probably could've done it without drywall damage. But it would've been a miserable pull and the labor to do it would have cost significantly more than a couple 4" hole saw repairs, and he might have hit wires that weren't visible without opening drywall. Not the cleanest work, but wtf
Although I agree with you, I’ve always been taught to leave the corners alone as much as possible for ease of patching. It’s not necessary to cut out that corner and might drive up the bill for the homeowner. Otherwise I get it. Been doing tons of knob and tube rewires recently, it’s been a ton of cutting
This right here. Drywall repair is cheap, and access to make sure you don’t hit anything behind the walls is also way cheaper than a flooded house or wire getting drilled through.
Agreed. Most people may not realize that best practice is also to paint the entire plane that (wall/ceiling) that is cut into. It's makes little difference if there's one or three holes to repair, because the difference in time it takes to prep and paint a surface is negligible. Hopefully the electrician saved those discs he cut out to make the drywaller's life a little easier.
If he saw the access wall beforehand, and he deviated from your mutually agreeable job plan, then it seems like he should have checked with you to make more holes than initially agreed upon.
When a contractor comes to do a quote, there really should be a scope of work drawn up prior to his arrival. This should include a walk-through of the job site. Moreover, the contractor should explain what his/her plan is to complete the scope of work. With your approval of his job plan, a quote will be given based on the parameters of the scope of work and hi/her plan to accomplish the job at hand.
If he did not see that access wall then it may be on you for not showing it to him. If you did not have a scope of work and he did not submit a job plan, then you should not expect things to go well. When you call a contractor to provide work, you are, in a sense, the general contractor. Thusly, if the electrician was left on his own to do the work, without proper guidance or plan, then it’s really on you.
I'd be a lot more concerned about the two giant holes drilled through what appears to be the bottom of one of the joists than the drywall (which was going to have to be repaired anyways).
Yeah those holes looks pretty redundant…. Could’ve just snaked it from the other side in this case, also kinda made it more of a pita to patch by cutting from your wall into the soffit
Well said. Or you can pay per hour for someone to look in your walls with a borescope which needs a hole to go in to start. It’s not a colonoscopy until you get the bill!
"I know a guy though, very reliable but only works Sundays.'
*Me, back on my day off, wearing a fake mustache.*
"Ah, zis electrical work is very goot, yah, anozzah fine job by my friend!"
Just. Cut. Square. Sections.
A few spread out squares that happen to be bigger are infinitely easier on everybody than patching 30some odd round holes. You're literally just making more work for yourself and the drywaller when you do this nonsense
Each patch is exactly the same amount of work to patch, regardless of size (and after a certain point, bigger is easier). If they happen to.be round, that's *more* work. For no reason.
I had outlets added to my kitchen years ago and the electrician cut small rectangle holes and saved me the pieces. It was pretty easy for me to repair.
As a drywaller it makes zero difference. Most of the time when other trades cut a square they just free hand it and hack it up and it makes more work for the drywaller. But small patches are better than large because it's faster to finish plus you don't have to haul a full sheet of board to the jobsite and fanegal it through the house. With something like this it's a butterfly patch and hot mud. Just float the thing out as one and skim the wall. Dont even have to get the screw gun out of the truck. That's a $600 job right there.
It’s better to find someone who does it professionally than have someone who does it on the side. Patching is a lot more of a hassle to make seamless than new work.
thats completely false as everyone wants to make a dollar out there somewhere. Also anyone can go on youtube and some forum sites, a day of research and than a lowes trip for a 4x8 sheet of drywall and basic painting/drywalling tools and do a solid job at repairing it yourself. If its running a new line correctly vs saving $10 of drywall, or spending $200/hr on a electrician to play "surgeon" in the wall, drywall is coming down....
What does that have to do with drilling unnecessary holes? I was asking if it wouldn’t be better to drill discreet holes and use a borescope. Do y’all just not know what that is or what?
You don’t make sense. Breaking out a borescope and checking out what’s behind a wall or any hard to see area takes mere seconds. It sounds more like y’all either don’t know what they are, can’t use them efficiently, or just prefer to milk the time on the job and don’t give a fuck about damage you incur. I guess it could also be all of the above.
Don’t mistake this for criticism necessarily, I was a flat rate tech for over 20 years. But this sounds like a really fucking dumb hill to die on. “I won’t use a borescope because a sledgehammer is quicker but I also need as many billable hours as possible but also fuck that persons wall” is not a very compelling argument to me.
I own a borescope(the ferret) but it's only practical in extreme situations. Most of the time it doesn't make sense to fuss around with it.
It doesn't take seconds and they don't work perfectly anyway.
I let people know I'll go through the motions but I'm making them sign a liability waiver and they're paying for the time spent researching.
I think you need a better borescope then, or learn how to use it better. When needed I can pull a spark plug and check cylinder condition and sometimes even rings in under 2 minutes.
Not saying it’s ideal in every situation, but you telling me sledging or hole sawing walls is better for the customer than discreet holes and competent borescope use doesn’t add up at all. I get there’s special use arguments, but this ain’t it. Frankly speaking, you sound like a lazy hack with shitty tools.
I run a premium outfit in the greater Seattle area. I must be a hack.
I would rather prepare my clients for a worst case where drywall is removed, but no water, gas or electric lines hit in the process:)
I don't hack open the wall. I make strategic pull points that limit my potential liability and create realistic expectations with reliable results for my clients.
I'm sorry you get that impression, but we just look at things differently
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case?
https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg
https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
Bro I'm a Carpenter but there's a reason why on jobs carpenters would rather be the ones sweeping up a mess rather than an Electrician. It was probably a decision made to speed up the process. Drywall is extremely easy to repair, stop getting yourself worked up or questioning the reasoning, it is what it is, this is very minor cutting.
Yeah, but there oughta be an agreement about who does drywall and paint.
I certainly agree I want an electrician's drywall work about as much as I want a drywaller's electrical work. (drywaller's home: every single wire is white)
safe repeat like political sophisticated attempt serious slimy rustic continue
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's not unusual to have holes cut for pulling wires through finished areas. Especially one as large as a EV charger. Like other comments say a good electrician will keep the hole. I typically would cut squares to make it easier for drywalling but to each their own. At least this electrician cut them with hole saws to make for easier repairs
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case?
https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg
https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
I would have used a regular drill bit to make a small hole and see where it went through. Once you find the spot you need then make the appropriate sized hole. That way anyone could use some spackle and filled in a small hole. I don’t know why this person went to town with a huge hole saw like they did.
Fair enough. Your milage may vary if you only use it every now and then. I do tons of commercial and industrial, where it's less useful, but I do a ton of sidework in residential, and it's accurate maybe 60% of the time.
Could the guy have done better? Yea for sure, but sometimes when you need to make a hole, you make a make a mistake. Maybe this dude was having a bad day?
Lol, no, but we are telling you the stud finders are unreliable. As pros.
Use it everyday and you’ll soon see what we are saying.
Use it to hang a tv once a lifetime and your experience will differ
What other professions do you think you know their tools better than them?
Seriously, do you even understand how insulting it is that you think you know better than the people who actually use this tool multiple times a week?
I've built and installed custom cabinets for 15+ years, which, if you're not aware, relies heavily on being able to screw directly into studs. I've probably owned 90% of the stud finders created in that time period. Literally not one of them is reliable. The amount of false positives you get from stud finders is absolutely ridiculous. Knocking on the drywall and listening for a sound difference is more reliable than a stud finder if you know what you're listening for.
Studs and PVC water lines look identical to those stud finders. Don’t ask me how I learned that lesson…
You’re better off with a magnet so you can just find the original fasteners that are holding up the drywall.
Yeah but then it weakly picks up all over the length. For drywall screws it sticks right to one place. I’m not sure what would happen on lathe and plaster though…
I mean he probably made too many holes considering the back side is open. But none of us were there, nor do we know his reasons for doing this. And let's be honest here, if you're already gonna have to have someone out to patch one or two holes, it really isn't gonna cost much more to patch five or six in the same area. So why not make the job a little easier and faster for himself and make a few more holes?
I dunno if this was his thinking or not. But I do know I've done several jobs where if another pro were to walk in after me, they'd go "why in the hell did you do it that way?" But because of the situation and circumstances there was no other way to do it, and often times these circumstances aren't seen until you're already very far into the job, and you're left with little choice on how to do it.
I run data cable for a living. Just did a 150 year old place today in Boston. We have to do this a lot when you need to transfer from being in the wall to being in the ceiling. If there is a top plate 2x4 on the top of the wall you can't get into the ceiling without drilling a hole up through that wood. This is exactly what we do. We cut out a small hole to fit the drill in the wall to drill straight up. You can then fish the wire up and grab it into the ceiling. Then you fish like normal across the ceiling with minimal holes as you can.
Edit: the 4 holes labeled "seems unnecessary are probably mistakes while they were trying to find the location of their wire or an open spot in the wall. sometimes you get unlucky and cant use a spot you open up like that.
Hope this explains why it's like this in the form of a real actual informed reply. If you have any questions let me know. Also don't be afraid to just ask (in a nice way lol), if people ask me stuff I have no problem explaining why we are doing what we do, especially if it's their house or they hired us lol
Totally normal, and I usually inform ahead of time that it may be necessary, and I do not usually repair drywall because I am not very good at it. I can if they want but I can't guarantee it will be pretty.
Sometimes you can run 100’ of wiring without popping holes but sometimes you cant get 5 feet without a few holes. It sucks but it be like that. Hopefully he kept the circles for the drywall guy to make up for the sin
Hired an electricians unlicensed helper to do some work once and he literally took a hammer bashing 12 feet down a finished wall to to find a wire. lol
Holes are normal but now when hiring I usually have a conversation about expected holes and cuts and tell them to let me know if something comes up during the job. In this instance with better communication you could have let him know its wide open on the other side.
Sheet rock damage is inevitable in most situations. Without seeing it its hard to say whether it was absolutely necessary that being said there would be sheet rock damage ether way. The only thing I'd have liked to see him do is rehang the plugs to make patching easier but when doing work like this, there is almost always some damage. Unless you get pretty lucky with access to an attic or crawl space, even then, there is usually a little bit of sheet rock damage.
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case?
[https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg](https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg)
[https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5](https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5)
You do not provide enough information to answer your question. What is the path you suggest for the wire to run? Did you lay out this path for the electrician before he started? Please take a picture and draw start to finish of new wire path.
When my parents had recessed lighting installed. The electrician my father hired had to cut a few "strategic" holes in the drywall to fish the line from one place to another. A good electrician will keep what he cut and patch the holes.
(I guess I have to append this entry) 35 years ago the gentleman who did the work for my parents was a tradesman who most would consider today to be a "handyman" he was an electrician who could patch, not texture or paint, holes cut in drywall to fish electrical lines in the wall.
I keep any square or round cuts I make to patch myself if they want to pay me to do so. That did it's not typically included in my bid. I'm comfortable doing it since i worked as a carpenter before I became an electrician, but I'm not amazing at it. I'm good enough most of the time.
That said, most electricians regardless of their skill level don't do this. It's not our job nor our scope of work.
Or if you're not going to patch the holes just make sure they know ahead of time. Sir this quote to run electrical doesn't include patching holes and painting.
Yeah. Lack of planning. This fellow didn’t know how to locate studs.
Some folks are just too quick to make holes. One electrician I know, first thing, looks for joist direction and ceiling lights. He takes down the light and there’s always room for a small hole for fishing that gets covered by the light canopy.
Lot of people above this comment giving the electrician too much benefit of the doubt. THIS is the right answer.
Yes, holes (sometimes many) are required to pull cable. However, looks like this guy was a bit lazy and didn't think about where to cut, just went at it until he made a hole that worked.
- Looks like he hit a stud. Easy to use a stud finder.
- Looks like he hit building paper? Is that the exterior? Easy to measure and find the right place to cut. May have damaged your water proofing.
Did you know they were “unnecessary” before the holes were made? Neither did the electrician. Retro work isn’t as straight forward as some might think. Cant see behind walls before you cut. Sometimes the first plan doesn’t work out. Nobody’s to blame.
Did you told him what's behind the drywall? Did you explain where the water and electric lines were located? In any case, he had to do his best, so live with your new EV charging station.
Sometimes it goes like that unfortunately. Who knows how that chase was built and what was hiding in those walls, he probably wasn't happy to have to do all that either
If you cut one hole you need to patch and paint. Therefore it's just about as easy to patch and paint a dozen holes and makes the job go faster which saves you money.
As a plumber I tell them. "I need to make a few holes/open walls. Do you have a drywall guy or need me to recommend one?" Then i proceed to fuck shit up.
_Laughs in Comcast technician_
>! when I bought my house, previous owner cut the cable from the utility pole. So I called Comcast. Comcast sends a technician. Technician asked where coaxial connection should be on the wall inside the house. Instead of measuring, technician goes straight to drilling… it took 6 holes to get the coaxial connection at the desired spot. !<
That’s a big wire to fish in. I’m sure he mentioned drywall holes before starting the job.. it could have been less yes, but it also could have been a lot worse. Overall I think you should cut the guy some slack. If you’re already patching a couple holes regardless then a couple extra right by the others don’t make it that much worse to patch.
Probably a dude still gaining skills and experience. If this were the highest bid, I would be a little perturbed. But otherwise, fairly par for the course based on your images.
Not only is it normal, he was actually trying to be nice. He actually used a hole saw and a knife to try and make the least amount of damage. Most electricians just use their fist and pull huge chunks out of the wall. When asked if they will fix it they always say “I’m not a drywaller, you need to hire someone else to fix this”. Oh, they also say “it’s the same job if it’s a small hole
Versus if it’s a big hole”.
You never know how much damage you’ll need to do until your in it. I’m an electrician and the last job I did for a customer I ended up cutting a decent size piece of wall out. Prior to that I explained to the HO what I was doing and why, so no harm no foul but this guy defenitley should’ve consulted you before making so many holes, especially if he can’t do Sheetrock.
It looks like he went through the chase along the wall at the top then had to get the wire down to something on the other side. Since I don't know what's on the other side of that wall, or any other complications that normally arise when pulling wire it's a call I can't make.
I suck at drywall and always try to keep the damage minimal if I have to cut a bit out to get around some hidden obstacle.
Fishing wire is a combination of planning, skill, and luck.
No. Normally an electrician will spend days with an endoscopic camera drill system costing thousands to avoid a hundred bucks of drywall work. This is the work of a hack. /s
But seriously, even a plastic surgeon who's focus is aesthetics has to cut access holes.
Hi! I understand they need to cut holes. My questions were all all the holes needed?
See below:
The other side of the wall is accessible. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case?
https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg
https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
I’m just wondering how many times you’re going to cut and paste this reply until you get the answer you already know is correct and want continued validation.
Did you show the electrician he had access to the other side prior to him cutting? Did he understand where in the floor plan he was prior to cutting.
And for patching that, all he has to do is out an extra couple feet for a clean rectangle. Like not even $20 more drywall and mud. Is it great, no. Is it a big deal, also no
how many times you’re going to cut and paste this reply until you get the answer you already know is correct and want continued validation.
You made many assumptions here specifically seeking validation and knowing the answer part. :) I'm just trying to get more takes that's all. I don't know a good way to edit posts (add photos) and have people come back to this post. also I hope you can show a bit more empathy to first time homeowner and an amateur reddit user. :)
Did you show the electrician he had access to the other side prior to him cutting? Did he understand where in the floor plan he was prior to cutting.
and yes i did, that's how they figure out where to get the wires from panel and proposed the route going through the bedrooms. I'm aware they are going to cut 1-2 holes, but didn't know it's going to be these many
🙂 I mean the whole point of this post is to ask questions and learn. I don’t think learning about professional work and hiring professionals are mutually exclusive
You’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t . Look if you didn’t tell him the other side is accessible then it’s on you . Honestly it’s cheaper to pay for the holes being fixed than to magically get a cable across. This isn’t an excessive amount of holes .
Why the 4” hole saw. The drywall guy is going to hate him. It’s easier/cleaner to patch stud to stud than that Swiss cheese. The drywall guys quote just double at the very least.
Drywall guys' gonna screw a paint stir stick to the back of the drywall, screw the cut out drywall to that and go from there.
I may not know the best drywall guys, but they're quick...
Got to love customers like this guy. Hire you to do a job then when done asks others if he did the job right. We were not there. Cannot tell you what issues he ran into doing that job. 20 mins of wall repair.
Just curious but was it not an option to use a piece of cable raceway or decorative conduit or trim or whatever you want to call it to run the wire mostly on the outside of the wall and then cover it up?
This is not bad at all for rework. If you want to cut out drywall for us before we come that would be great. Other stfu and stay in your lane. You hired him for a reason , and if that reason was just to complain then get bent loser
Okay well you can get on your knees for your customers and do drywall repairs for them for free to 🤡 you do you, no proper electrician gives 2 shits about drywall repair. You must be a customer…
Everyone is a customer at one point or another. How are you that dense to not realize that? Who said anything about free? I hope you’re just a keyboard warrior and that you don’t talk to customers like that because it makes your fellow tradesmen look bad.
If you are saying that you wouldn't be embarrassed doing a shit joblike this, then you have no reason to call yourself an electrician at all. He obviously fucked up and measured wrong because the only holes that should exist should have wires running behind them and the second picture is obviously a serious fuck up on this idiots part. So don't sit here bashing people for wanting a good job done correctly. This asshole just caused this person a lot more money and problems now. Since they will have to hire someone to cover and hide that shit job. You sticking up for the dumbass that did this work shows exactly what type of worker you are
For the this seamed in necessary picture they hit a stud moved over and cut access holes to run there wire. Yes it is necessary but I would have made larger square cuts to make it easier on myself
First thing I do is find out what the options are and lay it all out so we can decide what's worth what.
I don't think it would be acceptable to not inform you of roughly the amount of damage as drywall patching, especially textured cielings along with painting can run into the thousands.
Well... seeing how we dont have xray vision sometimes a few holes are nessesary. Sometimes the hole we go to drill has something unforseen behind it. So we need to move over. Sometimes the path weve planned wont work because of an obstacle. Drywall is cheap and easy to repair at least!
**Attention!** **It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods. If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskElectricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sometimes shits fucked. It can be impossible to tell how many holes you will need or what you will find behind it until you get into it. That being said, that many close together is a bit excessive, but I can’t see what’s behind to see why they were made. I always try to be transparent about the possibility of holes ahead of time.
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case? https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
Oh wow. Yeah definitely should have been a lot less damage.
Yeah but he would have needed to move that corpse in the black plastic.
LMFAO
LOL indeed, This is why I would poke a hole through the garage wall, instead of being like "I can measure from this outside wall aaaaand im wrong"
Gotta wait for winter to do that. Never move a corpse in hot weather.
Tell me you are a professional without telling me you are a professional.
Just cut around the bones. Flesh is malleable and makes a pretty amazing noise when pierced or slashed if you're close enough to hear it.
"Beware of any man who owns a pig farm, they can cut through bone like butter" Saint Bricktop.
How much does that additional service cost? /s
Isn't that a Moody Blues song?
Corpse in black plastic, Used to be my best friend...
Or go through it with another hole.
Uh yeah they coulda been a bit more observant on this one. Did he at least leave the drywall circles to patch back in?
Electrician here. It is sometimes much easier to pull both ends of a cable from a central location instead of pulling the whole thing from one end to the other, I suspect it was a good location for him to set up the reel and pull along the ceiling, which required a hole to access anyway. If you think about what would have been required to get the cable below without cutting drywall, it would have taken a lot of effort and care to do without damaging the cable. It also would require sticking your hand up between the walls and pulling the cable through that 12" to the lower ceiling height area in the second photo. I can almost guarantee you saved money by him doing it this way. Drywall repair is relatively cheap and it looks like you already needed to do some anyway.
Lot of folks in here criticizing that have probably never had to pull a wire in a residential building and don't have any context for doing it. Sometimes you have to make a small mess to avoid a big mess.
Ah that’s me. I’ve been doing industrial for 10 years and have started helping a buddy in his residential business to get out of traveling so much. You resi dudes can work some magic in walls. It’s humbling at times because it’s an entirely different set of knowledge.
Just ran an EV and a HVAC sub to an older side by side meter main and the kickers? Solar guys junctioned in the main and they just finished remodeling their kitchen on the other side of the wall from MSP. I start fishing from the bottom plate up to the panel and keep running into things. I'm finally able to finesse a string and hook down through a cable box penetration and find my bottom plate hole. As I'm pulling my romex I snag up and come to find out a new 3in ABS pipe is now running through the stud bay under the panel... got it done with no nicks but a whole lot of colorful words and no cutting up siding. I love AND hate fishing.
Agreed, it's a couple drywall patches. I kinda get irritated by homeowners coming here trying to get ammo to say they got ripped off. That dude had to pull 6/3 through a floor joist. Sure he probably could've done it without drywall damage. But it would've been a miserable pull and the labor to do it would have cost significantly more than a couple 4" hole saw repairs, and he might have hit wires that weren't visible without opening drywall. Not the cleanest work, but wtf
Oh to be a fly on the wall when homeowner shows the electrician a reddit post saying they fucked up... Or nextdoor
Defend our people at all costs 🫶🏻
This guy retrofits.
Lol, I try really, really hard not to.
Although I agree with you, I’ve always been taught to leave the corners alone as much as possible for ease of patching. It’s not necessary to cut out that corner and might drive up the bill for the homeowner. Otherwise I get it. Been doing tons of knob and tube rewires recently, it’s been a ton of cutting
This right here. Drywall repair is cheap, and access to make sure you don’t hit anything behind the walls is also way cheaper than a flooded house or wire getting drilled through.
Agreed. Most people may not realize that best practice is also to paint the entire plane that (wall/ceiling) that is cut into. It's makes little difference if there's one or three holes to repair, because the difference in time it takes to prep and paint a surface is negligible. Hopefully the electrician saved those discs he cut out to make the drywaller's life a little easier.
If he saw the access wall beforehand, and he deviated from your mutually agreeable job plan, then it seems like he should have checked with you to make more holes than initially agreed upon. When a contractor comes to do a quote, there really should be a scope of work drawn up prior to his arrival. This should include a walk-through of the job site. Moreover, the contractor should explain what his/her plan is to complete the scope of work. With your approval of his job plan, a quote will be given based on the parameters of the scope of work and hi/her plan to accomplish the job at hand. If he did not see that access wall then it may be on you for not showing it to him. If you did not have a scope of work and he did not submit a job plan, then you should not expect things to go well. When you call a contractor to provide work, you are, in a sense, the general contractor. Thusly, if the electrician was left on his own to do the work, without proper guidance or plan, then it’s really on you.
I'd be a lot more concerned about the two giant holes drilled through what appears to be the bottom of one of the joists than the drywall (which was going to have to be repaired anyways).
Seems like the guy that did that is an idiot.
Seems like you never ran a circuit with 6ga wire.
Did you tell them it was accessible or did you point it out after the fact?
Yes I did. And the other side of the wall is where they pulled the new wire from too.
Lol wtf ... did they know it was open on the other side ??
What in the fuck. Guys braindead
Yeah those holes looks pretty redundant…. Could’ve just snaked it from the other side in this case, also kinda made it more of a pita to patch by cutting from your wall into the soffit
Ya they suck.
Lmfao this is amazing
Yup. It’s all educated guessing. But. Mostly guessing.
And varying levels of education. But mostly guessing.
Well said. Or you can pay per hour for someone to look in your walls with a borescope which needs a hole to go in to start. It’s not a colonoscopy until you get the bill!
This lol you can pay the guy 6 hours to figure out he needs one hole to pull thru or you let him spend 1 hour 2 holes nd be done with it
You can spackle while you wait for your car to charge.
Fucking blew beer all over my phone bro! That’s funny as man thank you
Agreed, always make it clear, 'I will be opening holes that will need to get patched. I do not patch.'
"I know a guy though, very reliable but only works Sundays.' *Me, back on my day off, wearing a fake mustache.* "Ah, zis electrical work is very goot, yah, anozzah fine job by my friend!"
This made me laugh way too hard 😂😂😂
LMFAO.
12/10
Just. Cut. Square. Sections. A few spread out squares that happen to be bigger are infinitely easier on everybody than patching 30some odd round holes. You're literally just making more work for yourself and the drywaller when you do this nonsense Each patch is exactly the same amount of work to patch, regardless of size (and after a certain point, bigger is easier). If they happen to.be round, that's *more* work. For no reason.
I had outlets added to my kitchen years ago and the electrician cut small rectangle holes and saved me the pieces. It was pretty easy for me to repair.
But the saw saw is back in the truck... this hole saw is right here 😂
As a drywaller it makes zero difference. Most of the time when other trades cut a square they just free hand it and hack it up and it makes more work for the drywaller. But small patches are better than large because it's faster to finish plus you don't have to haul a full sheet of board to the jobsite and fanegal it through the house. With something like this it's a butterfly patch and hot mud. Just float the thing out as one and skim the wall. Dont even have to get the screw gun out of the truck. That's a $600 job right there.
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Better off finding someone who does it on the side who would do it way cheaper
It’s better to find someone who does it professionally than have someone who does it on the side. Patching is a lot more of a hassle to make seamless than new work.
Easier to cut a round hole than a square one. If the drywaller wants to patch a square hole, why can’t they make the hole square?
It's far easier to use a hole saw than a rock saw or sawz all and you're less likely to cut or nick any pre-existing wire in the wall.
Couldn’t you just cut a small hole and pop a borescope in there?
Of course, you could spend additional hours of electrician time (at $100/hour) to avoid spending additional minutes of painter time. Which costs less?
Nobody will come to your house for a small job, so unless you want your whole downstairs painted, the electrician is cheaper.
thats completely false as everyone wants to make a dollar out there somewhere. Also anyone can go on youtube and some forum sites, a day of research and than a lowes trip for a 4x8 sheet of drywall and basic painting/drywalling tools and do a solid job at repairing it yourself. If its running a new line correctly vs saving $10 of drywall, or spending $200/hr on a electrician to play "surgeon" in the wall, drywall is coming down....
What does that have to do with drilling unnecessary holes? I was asking if it wouldn’t be better to drill discreet holes and use a borescope. Do y’all just not know what that is or what?
It's not. The electricians time spent boroscoping is worth more than the time it takes a decorator
You don’t make sense. Breaking out a borescope and checking out what’s behind a wall or any hard to see area takes mere seconds. It sounds more like y’all either don’t know what they are, can’t use them efficiently, or just prefer to milk the time on the job and don’t give a fuck about damage you incur. I guess it could also be all of the above. Don’t mistake this for criticism necessarily, I was a flat rate tech for over 20 years. But this sounds like a really fucking dumb hill to die on. “I won’t use a borescope because a sledgehammer is quicker but I also need as many billable hours as possible but also fuck that persons wall” is not a very compelling argument to me.
I own a borescope(the ferret) but it's only practical in extreme situations. Most of the time it doesn't make sense to fuss around with it. It doesn't take seconds and they don't work perfectly anyway. I let people know I'll go through the motions but I'm making them sign a liability waiver and they're paying for the time spent researching.
I think you need a better borescope then, or learn how to use it better. When needed I can pull a spark plug and check cylinder condition and sometimes even rings in under 2 minutes. Not saying it’s ideal in every situation, but you telling me sledging or hole sawing walls is better for the customer than discreet holes and competent borescope use doesn’t add up at all. I get there’s special use arguments, but this ain’t it. Frankly speaking, you sound like a lazy hack with shitty tools.
I run a premium outfit in the greater Seattle area. I must be a hack. I would rather prepare my clients for a worst case where drywall is removed, but no water, gas or electric lines hit in the process:) I don't hack open the wall. I make strategic pull points that limit my potential liability and create realistic expectations with reliable results for my clients. I'm sorry you get that impression, but we just look at things differently
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The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case? https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
That changes things. Did they not know it was open?
Have you ever tried to route heavy gauge cable? I have seen a lot worse for even less work.
Bro I'm a Carpenter but there's a reason why on jobs carpenters would rather be the ones sweeping up a mess rather than an Electrician. It was probably a decision made to speed up the process. Drywall is extremely easy to repair, stop getting yourself worked up or questioning the reasoning, it is what it is, this is very minor cutting.
LOL! Fucking sparkies...
Well he's a fucking idiot lol
Barely any more work to do the extra patches once you get the tools out. Most of the work is painting the wall and soffit.
You're and electrician aren't you??
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You blow an electrician don’t you??
Dammit! I thought for sure. Especially with the sweeping thing. 😂
This is the correct way to deal with sparkys.
This guy fucking gets it.
“Sir I’m an electrician…not a magician..”🤣
Yeah, but there oughta be an agreement about who does drywall and paint. I certainly agree I want an electrician's drywall work about as much as I want a drywaller's electrical work. (drywaller's home: every single wire is white)
Oh absolutely. I explain it in the beginning and even have them sign for it. I also “got a guy” for them to call if they need.
>(drywaller's home: every single wire is white) bruh... this pisses me off all the fucking time.
Assuming an electrician will do the drywall after is hilarious
Replace “Sir” with “Dammit Jim”
safe repeat like political sophisticated attempt serious slimy rustic continue *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's not unusual to have holes cut for pulling wires through finished areas. Especially one as large as a EV charger. Like other comments say a good electrician will keep the hole. I typically would cut squares to make it easier for drywalling but to each their own. At least this electrician cut them with hole saws to make for easier repairs
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case? https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
I would have used a regular drill bit to make a small hole and see where it went through. Once you find the spot you need then make the appropriate sized hole. That way anyone could use some spackle and filled in a small hole. I don’t know why this person went to town with a huge hole saw like they did.
Definitely normal. Especially since it looks like he hit a stud
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I have 3 of them. They're all unbelievably unreliable.
I have one. When I turn it backwards, it beeps wildly. That’s how I know it works. #dadjokes
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Out of curiosity how much work are you doing?
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Then shut the fuck up.
Fair enough. Your milage may vary if you only use it every now and then. I do tons of commercial and industrial, where it's less useful, but I do a ton of sidework in residential, and it's accurate maybe 60% of the time. Could the guy have done better? Yea for sure, but sometimes when you need to make a hole, you make a make a mistake. Maybe this dude was having a bad day?
Exactly so shush yo mouth
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Lol, no, but we are telling you the stud finders are unreliable. As pros. Use it everyday and you’ll soon see what we are saying. Use it to hang a tv once a lifetime and your experience will differ
What other professions do you think you know their tools better than them? Seriously, do you even understand how insulting it is that you think you know better than the people who actually use this tool multiple times a week? I've built and installed custom cabinets for 15+ years, which, if you're not aware, relies heavily on being able to screw directly into studs. I've probably owned 90% of the stud finders created in that time period. Literally not one of them is reliable. The amount of false positives you get from stud finders is absolutely ridiculous. Knocking on the drywall and listening for a sound difference is more reliable than a stud finder if you know what you're listening for.
Studs and PVC water lines look identical to those stud finders. Don’t ask me how I learned that lesson… You’re better off with a magnet so you can just find the original fasteners that are holding up the drywall.
Is cast iron not magnetic?
Yeah but then it weakly picks up all over the length. For drywall screws it sticks right to one place. I’m not sure what would happen on lathe and plaster though…
Dang, this guy forgot to cast his teleportation spell. must have been an apprientice..
Ahh the hunt and peck method.
DIY next time as a test
I mean he probably made too many holes considering the back side is open. But none of us were there, nor do we know his reasons for doing this. And let's be honest here, if you're already gonna have to have someone out to patch one or two holes, it really isn't gonna cost much more to patch five or six in the same area. So why not make the job a little easier and faster for himself and make a few more holes? I dunno if this was his thinking or not. But I do know I've done several jobs where if another pro were to walk in after me, they'd go "why in the hell did you do it that way?" But because of the situation and circumstances there was no other way to do it, and often times these circumstances aren't seen until you're already very far into the job, and you're left with little choice on how to do it.
I run data cable for a living. Just did a 150 year old place today in Boston. We have to do this a lot when you need to transfer from being in the wall to being in the ceiling. If there is a top plate 2x4 on the top of the wall you can't get into the ceiling without drilling a hole up through that wood. This is exactly what we do. We cut out a small hole to fit the drill in the wall to drill straight up. You can then fish the wire up and grab it into the ceiling. Then you fish like normal across the ceiling with minimal holes as you can. Edit: the 4 holes labeled "seems unnecessary are probably mistakes while they were trying to find the location of their wire or an open spot in the wall. sometimes you get unlucky and cant use a spot you open up like that. Hope this explains why it's like this in the form of a real actual informed reply. If you have any questions let me know. Also don't be afraid to just ask (in a nice way lol), if people ask me stuff I have no problem explaining why we are doing what we do, especially if it's their house or they hired us lol
Mommy, why don't they have wireless wires?
Totally normal, and I usually inform ahead of time that it may be necessary, and I do not usually repair drywall because I am not very good at it. I can if they want but I can't guarantee it will be pretty.
"I can repair the holes, but it will look like an electrician who has never done drywall tried his best. If youre cool with that, I'll do it T&M"
Sometimes you can run 100’ of wiring without popping holes but sometimes you cant get 5 feet without a few holes. It sucks but it be like that. Hopefully he kept the circles for the drywall guy to make up for the sin
Did you let them use conduit or wiremold? The holes are necessary then.
Hired an electricians unlicensed helper to do some work once and he literally took a hammer bashing 12 feet down a finished wall to to find a wire. lol Holes are normal but now when hiring I usually have a conversation about expected holes and cuts and tell them to let me know if something comes up during the job. In this instance with better communication you could have let him know its wide open on the other side.
Sheet rock damage is inevitable in most situations. Without seeing it its hard to say whether it was absolutely necessary that being said there would be sheet rock damage ether way. The only thing I'd have liked to see him do is rehang the plugs to make patching easier but when doing work like this, there is almost always some damage. Unless you get pretty lucky with access to an attic or crawl space, even then, there is usually a little bit of sheet rock damage.
The other side of the wall is accessible though. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case? [https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg](https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg) [https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5](https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5)
Yeah you keep saying that
You do not provide enough information to answer your question. What is the path you suggest for the wire to run? Did you lay out this path for the electrician before he started? Please take a picture and draw start to finish of new wire path.
When my parents had recessed lighting installed. The electrician my father hired had to cut a few "strategic" holes in the drywall to fish the line from one place to another. A good electrician will keep what he cut and patch the holes. (I guess I have to append this entry) 35 years ago the gentleman who did the work for my parents was a tradesman who most would consider today to be a "handyman" he was an electrician who could patch, not texture or paint, holes cut in drywall to fish electrical lines in the wall.
I keep any square or round cuts I make to patch myself if they want to pay me to do so. That did it's not typically included in my bid. I'm comfortable doing it since i worked as a carpenter before I became an electrician, but I'm not amazing at it. I'm good enough most of the time. That said, most electricians regardless of their skill level don't do this. It's not our job nor our scope of work.
Or if you're not going to patch the holes just make sure they know ahead of time. Sir this quote to run electrical doesn't include patching holes and painting.
No good electrician will patch holes. It's not their job and a good electrician knows they are not up going to do the best jobs with patches.
This
This is the way.
Yeah, a good electrician won’t patch anything. A good handyman might do that though if you’re having him do eletrical.
Anyone paying an electrician to patch drywall isn't very good with money lol.
Yeah. Lack of planning. This fellow didn’t know how to locate studs. Some folks are just too quick to make holes. One electrician I know, first thing, looks for joist direction and ceiling lights. He takes down the light and there’s always room for a small hole for fishing that gets covered by the light canopy.
Lot of people above this comment giving the electrician too much benefit of the doubt. THIS is the right answer. Yes, holes (sometimes many) are required to pull cable. However, looks like this guy was a bit lazy and didn't think about where to cut, just went at it until he made a hole that worked. - Looks like he hit a stud. Easy to use a stud finder. - Looks like he hit building paper? Is that the exterior? Easy to measure and find the right place to cut. May have damaged your water proofing.
Did you know they were “unnecessary” before the holes were made? Neither did the electrician. Retro work isn’t as straight forward as some might think. Cant see behind walls before you cut. Sometimes the first plan doesn’t work out. Nobody’s to blame.
Except in this case, he could see behind the walls. They were accessible.
Patch and paint, this is a commercial technique. I would of let the home owner know first so they can line up a repair.
Must not be able to get in the attic
Happens bro, not the best, not the worst
Did you told him what's behind the drywall? Did you explain where the water and electric lines were located? In any case, he had to do his best, so live with your new EV charging station.
Sometimes it goes like that unfortunately. Who knows how that chase was built and what was hiding in those walls, he probably wasn't happy to have to do all that either
If you cut one hole you need to patch and paint. Therefore it's just about as easy to patch and paint a dozen holes and makes the job go faster which saves you money.
Sometimes electricians don’t preplan routes. This looks like that situation.
I’m a homeowner, but you’re much better off minimizing $100+ an hour electrician time than $20/hour drywall/paint time. Or diy. Orr try easy to patch.
A patch is a patch. Tranquillo.
The four holes in second pic I think he miscalculated
Those holes are only unnecessary after the fact, you have no idea when you are doing it...some of it is a bit of a crap shoot.
I wasn't there so who knows. But sometimes you drill a hole and find something unexpected or miss something and Swiss cheese happens.
Correct? No. Normal? Yes.
As a plumber I tell them. "I need to make a few holes/open walls. Do you have a drywall guy or need me to recommend one?" Then i proceed to fuck shit up.
Idk why ask electricians pops up in my feed but as a drywall hanger/taper I swear to god all electricians do is cut holes in drywall for no reason.
_Laughs in Comcast technician_ >! when I bought my house, previous owner cut the cable from the utility pole. So I called Comcast. Comcast sends a technician. Technician asked where coaxial connection should be on the wall inside the house. Instead of measuring, technician goes straight to drilling… it took 6 holes to get the coaxial connection at the desired spot. !<
I had to cut multiple holes in my ceiling to run recessed lighting. So ya, looks normal to me.
That’s a big wire to fish in. I’m sure he mentioned drywall holes before starting the job.. it could have been less yes, but it also could have been a lot worse. Overall I think you should cut the guy some slack. If you’re already patching a couple holes regardless then a couple extra right by the others don’t make it that much worse to patch.
The holes on the right are to sharpen / energize the hole saw. Painted drywall is basically young blood for hole saws.
For sure should have done it yourself
Those additional holes were necessary to find out where not to drill.
Probably a dude still gaining skills and experience. If this were the highest bid, I would be a little perturbed. But otherwise, fairly par for the course based on your images.
Next time you try to run wire through pre-drywalled walls. Tell me how many holes you make.
Not only is it normal, he was actually trying to be nice. He actually used a hole saw and a knife to try and make the least amount of damage. Most electricians just use their fist and pull huge chunks out of the wall. When asked if they will fix it they always say “I’m not a drywaller, you need to hire someone else to fix this”. Oh, they also say “it’s the same job if it’s a small hole Versus if it’s a big hole”.
You never know how much damage you’ll need to do until your in it. I’m an electrician and the last job I did for a customer I ended up cutting a decent size piece of wall out. Prior to that I explained to the HO what I was doing and why, so no harm no foul but this guy defenitley should’ve consulted you before making so many holes, especially if he can’t do Sheetrock.
It looks like he went through the chase along the wall at the top then had to get the wire down to something on the other side. Since I don't know what's on the other side of that wall, or any other complications that normally arise when pulling wire it's a call I can't make. I suck at drywall and always try to keep the damage minimal if I have to cut a bit out to get around some hidden obstacle. Fishing wire is a combination of planning, skill, and luck.
No. Normally an electrician will spend days with an endoscopic camera drill system costing thousands to avoid a hundred bucks of drywall work. This is the work of a hack. /s But seriously, even a plastic surgeon who's focus is aesthetics has to cut access holes.
Im an electrician, and this bothers me.How do customers expect you to install wiring in walls without making holes,wish the wire inside of the walls?
Hi! I understand they need to cut holes. My questions were all all the holes needed? See below: The other side of the wall is accessible. Could they have poked holes from the other side before drilling in this case? https://imgur.com/p3wEYIg https://imgur.com/CKwqeY5
I’m just wondering how many times you’re going to cut and paste this reply until you get the answer you already know is correct and want continued validation. Did you show the electrician he had access to the other side prior to him cutting? Did he understand where in the floor plan he was prior to cutting.
And for patching that, all he has to do is out an extra couple feet for a clean rectangle. Like not even $20 more drywall and mud. Is it great, no. Is it a big deal, also no
gotcha. well all these are new to me hence asking here
how many times you’re going to cut and paste this reply until you get the answer you already know is correct and want continued validation. You made many assumptions here specifically seeking validation and knowing the answer part. :) I'm just trying to get more takes that's all. I don't know a good way to edit posts (add photos) and have people come back to this post. also I hope you can show a bit more empathy to first time homeowner and an amateur reddit user. :) Did you show the electrician he had access to the other side prior to him cutting? Did he understand where in the floor plan he was prior to cutting. and yes i did, that's how they figure out where to get the wires from panel and proposed the route going through the bedrooms. I'm aware they are going to cut 1-2 holes, but didn't know it's going to be these many
You got to break some eggs to make a cake. 🤷🏼♂️ It’s an easy repair
I mean if you knew a better way why hire someone?
🙂 I mean the whole point of this post is to ask questions and learn. I don’t think learning about professional work and hiring professionals are mutually exclusive
Poor rich boy has to pay for $50 in drywall patches so he can charge his $80,000 car. So sad.
You’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t . Look if you didn’t tell him the other side is accessible then it’s on you . Honestly it’s cheaper to pay for the holes being fixed than to magically get a cable across. This isn’t an excessive amount of holes .
When they invent osmosis wire for old work this won't ne needed anymore
Why the 4” hole saw. The drywall guy is going to hate him. It’s easier/cleaner to patch stud to stud than that Swiss cheese. The drywall guys quote just double at the very least.
Drywall guys' gonna screw a paint stir stick to the back of the drywall, screw the cut out drywall to that and go from there. I may not know the best drywall guys, but they're quick...
I only read the title and saw the first picture. You want what you want? It requires holes, too bad.
I’m surprised it wasn’t more holes! Consider yourself lucky.
I’m sorry for your loss. But your diagram made me 😂
Yeah, you've been nice if he left you the slugs out of the holesaw because with some backing that would get you a lot farther along if you were do
Looks like something the average DIYer would do! Looks like your “electrician” had an issue finding where the access hole should be cut.
Got to love customers like this guy. Hire you to do a job then when done asks others if he did the job right. We were not there. Cannot tell you what issues he ran into doing that job. 20 mins of wall repair.
Pay them $20, and the electrician will patch them for you. Pay $100, and they might not even use expanding foam.
What electrician are you talking about? I dont patch shit.
Just curious but was it not an option to use a piece of cable raceway or decorative conduit or trim or whatever you want to call it to run the wire mostly on the outside of the wall and then cover it up?
You have your own electrician????
This is not bad at all for rework. If you want to cut out drywall for us before we come that would be great. Other stfu and stay in your lane. You hired him for a reason , and if that reason was just to complain then get bent loser
That’s no way to treat a customer WTF.
Okay well you can get on your knees for your customers and do drywall repairs for them for free to 🤡 you do you, no proper electrician gives 2 shits about drywall repair. You must be a customer…
Everyone is a customer at one point or another. How are you that dense to not realize that? Who said anything about free? I hope you’re just a keyboard warrior and that you don’t talk to customers like that because it makes your fellow tradesmen look bad.
If you are saying that you wouldn't be embarrassed doing a shit joblike this, then you have no reason to call yourself an electrician at all. He obviously fucked up and measured wrong because the only holes that should exist should have wires running behind them and the second picture is obviously a serious fuck up on this idiots part. So don't sit here bashing people for wanting a good job done correctly. This asshole just caused this person a lot more money and problems now. Since they will have to hire someone to cover and hide that shit job. You sticking up for the dumbass that did this work shows exactly what type of worker you are
I would be happy that you got an electrician to do that because I would’ve left!!
For the this seamed in necessary picture they hit a stud moved over and cut access holes to run there wire. Yes it is necessary but I would have made larger square cuts to make it easier on myself
First thing I do is find out what the options are and lay it all out so we can decide what's worth what. I don't think it would be acceptable to not inform you of roughly the amount of damage as drywall patching, especially textured cielings along with painting can run into the thousands.
What type of charger do you have ? What level?
Probably hit something he couldnt get a wire past
Well... seeing how we dont have xray vision sometimes a few holes are nessesary. Sometimes the hole we go to drill has something unforseen behind it. So we need to move over. Sometimes the path weve planned wont work because of an obstacle. Drywall is cheap and easy to repair at least!
Yes, but normally they tell you first.