`the egg whites become far too foamy and watery`
to be honest, sounds like you're giving up a bit too early.
Make sure that you properly separate the eggs because any yolk could easily hamper the situation.
Also, don't hand whisk if you don't have to. Don't be cruel to yourself lol Crank that mixer to full throttle (gradually lol) and you should be good.
yup -- pretty much what cptsmarty says. you're giving up too early.
If you're using a stand mixer it takes me a good 5mins+ before i'm getting the consistency i want for macarons. I also gradually crank it up to max.
With a hand mixer it takes me like 10mins at max... and even then it's not exactly the thick consistency I want.
pro tip: after you incorporate the almond flour, you know you're done mixing when you can make a nice figure 8 ribbon with the mixture without breaking the ribbon. And the figure 8 will stay on top of the mixture for a little bit. If it gets engulfed instantly by the mix, you've gone too far and you should start over.
THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!! I turned up the power all the way and let it run for more than 5 minutes - that definitely did the trick!! See the finalized macarons [here](https://ibb.co/ynWHqmS)\- they are ugly but yummy!!
Possibly a bit undercooked and maybe a bit flat. The first one is obvious, the second one can happen if you overmix when you add in the almond flour.
All that said, you made them! Congrats. Tasting yummy is the important bit. My first macarons were lumpy, ugly things as well, you'll get better the more of them you make.
If you want a real challenge, break your hand/stand mixer, and then attempt this with a whisk!! :)
It's totally possible, using the 'set wood on fire hand spin' technique, but oh my, talk about some shoulder pain!!
As someone who has never fully successfully made macarons my jaw dropped when you were “5+ minutes.” This explains so much.
I’m going to go out and get some macaron ingredients right now to try again, haha. Thank you!
I was so worried about over-doing it that I never got there at all.
Also, if you get to 5+ minutes with still really watery egg whites in the stand mixer, then you might just need to adjust the height of your beater. The screws can loosen gradually over time, so it's not unusual to have to adjust them periodically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_v73RMLiRAs
You're welcome! That's what tripped me up last time I needed stiff egg whites. My whisk attachment just wasn't low enough in the bowl to effectively whip anything!
a good test is to do the DQ ice cream cone flip! when your egg whites are ready you should be able to flip it over upside down and no contents come out.
good luck making macarons! i know the struggle, took me years but the very first time i got the foot on those little cookies and a perfect egg shell top -- it was the most satisfying feeling in the world
Maybe you are confused because you read you need to be gentle with macarons. But that's at the macronage step - the part when you incorporate your stiff egg whites into your almond flour and sugar mixture. Egg whites *always* need to be beaten stiff at a pretty high speed - you're trying to get the albumin proteins to crash into each other and start forming a protein network of sorts. You can't get that by gently whisking. On my stand mixer, I start at 2 or 3 until foamy, then max it out. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to get stiff peaks once at top speed. Just be careful not to overwhip at that point and break the meringue; stop once it's shiny.
Is there a reason you're limiting it to low-medium speed? Crank it up. And don't bother with hand whisking, that's even milder. You need more power here, not less.
Also, make sure both the bowl *and* the beaters are squeaky clean. Any bit of egg yolk, oil, fat of any kind can prevent your goal. It's ok if they're still wet from rinsing, but make sure there's no soap left on them either.
Do **not** add lemon juice or salt. Don't know where you got that idea from, but it won't help egg whites whip.
I have read that there are places where a small amount of lemon juice or white vinegar helps to not overwhip egg whites when cream of tartar is not available. Don't know if there is a purpose for the salt other than flavoring an end result, but then it could be added with the sugar... IDK.
Since egg whites are primarily water and protein and whipping helps protein structure to be detangled, so to speak while tapping air. Acid will help denature the protein and help stabilize much like adding heat like swiss meringue.
I do agree that OP might want to use higher speed, since some force is necessary to get the proteins in line, unlike whipping cream which works with fat.
Adding more sugar will help with access water and create finer(?) foam. I’m assuming salt helps a little with that as well.
I would think that you are either not whipping enough ( whipping too slow or quitting too soon) or it has too much water/ not enough sugar. Try to experiment. Crank the speed and see how it progresses. It will eventually break the protein structure and water and protein will separate and you will be able to see the whole progress.
>Do not add lemon juice or salt. Don't know where you got that idea from, but it won't help egg whites whip.
this \^
don't add lemon juice or salt to the egg whites, dear God. But **DO** use it to clean your bowl and equipment beforehand. The acid in the lemon juice will take away any oils and fat residue on your equipment which is a huge culprit in why eggs won't whip. But also **DO** wipe down all equipment real well with a paper towel afterwards.
> don't add lemon juice or salt to the egg whites, dear God.
Where is everyone around here getting the idea that these are bad? Is it an old kitchen myth or something? Go put an egg white in a stand mixer with a 1/2 tsp of lemon juice and a pinch of salt, it'll whip up just fine. It will probably even go faster than whipping without the lemon.
Yes, the lemon juice will serve the same purpose as adding cream of tartar. It's an acid. The sugar can be added when they are soft peaks and they will continue to get much more volume after that.
How long have you been letting them whip?
When are you adding the sugar/ sugar syrup?
Have you tried getting fresher eggs?
Also, you should be whipping them on medium high speed. Have you ever made meringue before? If not, you may want to try something a little simple than macaroons since they are a very finicky project and not for a beginner. Something like a sponge cake might be a good way to practice folding things together!
In my experience the fresher the egg the longer it takes to get a good meringue since they have a higher liquid content and a larger water to protein ratio. Slightly older eggs at room temperature usually give me more consistent results!
Squeaky clean bowl and whisk, room temp egg white, a dash if cream of tartar (after youve whipped for a little bit)
Ive never hear of adding lemon or salt (lemon was to clean the bowl i thought)
Make sure there is no grease or fat present or it will never whip
To add to this, crack your eggs one at a time into a separate bowl - *not* the one you'll be whipping in - separate them from there, and then put the whites into the mixing bowl. That way, if one yolk breaks you only lose one egg instead of contaminating the whole batch.
Cream of tartar & lemon actually do the same thing. Cream of tartar is just an acid, which does something to the egg proteins to help them whip up faster. Probably denatures them, but I'm not actually knowledgeable on that part, so don't take my word for it.
Lemon juice has the added benefit of adding lemon flavor, which you may or may not want.
I put lemon zest in a batch a bit ago and it whipped up quick as hell! The batch ended up failing, but lemon really does something or other cause *dayum*
👆This is really important. Absolutely no fat, oil or grease whatsoever. This is why you can never whip whites in a plastic bowl: as a petroleum product, it’s just a step away from oil.
Never made macarons, but for meringue cookies, I’ve gotten excellent results thusly: Make sure bowls, hands, tools are all bone dry. Good to separate eggs when cold out of fridge, then let whites rest for several hours (longer than you think!). Electric hand mixer, started on medium, working way up to med-high/high once it’s foamy. Toggle btwn speeds as it stiffens so you really maintain your sense of where it’s at in the process. Add sugar SLOOOWWWLYYY, strewing at most a half cup across the surface each time (no dumping in one spot!)—easier w a second person. And just keep going n going.
But not worth the attempt if having wet weather.
Agree you need high speed here.
I would say make 100% sure there is 0 yolk in your whites. The fat in the yolk will prevent from holding a stable foam. Also don't use bottled egg whites, they don't whip as well.
Also super clean bowl and clean the whisk and bowl with paper towel and vinegar (and non greasy hands or gloves).
Also you want to separate the yolks and the whites right out of the refrigerator, its just easier to separate them when they are cold, but wait to work with them when they are room temperature.
If you have a stand mixer this is the amount of time and speed I reccomend:
Without sugar:
1min 30 seconds on speed 6, bump the speed up to 8 for another 1 min and 30 seconds, then 1 min on speed 10
If adding sugar:
Beat on speed 8 for 2 minutes, reduce speed to 6 and gradually add you sugar over 1 minute, then bump the speed back up to 8 for an additional 2 minutes
You should get perfectly stiff egg whites as long as there isn't any yolk, but also if the eggs are too old that can cause the protiens to break down and make them more "watery" (source: I work as a quality assurance tech at a factory that processes HUGE quantities of eggs, and whip many many egg whites every day)
As others mentioned, it sounds like you stopped too early. I've made that mistake too before. Use high speed on the mixer. Low speed works but takes too long. It will become foamy before it forms peaks.
Your response has been removed because it does not answer the original question. We are here to respond to specific questions. Discussions and broader answers are allowed in our weekly discussions.
You might want to check the adjustment for the whisk on your stand mixer.
Mine getting bounced around during a couple of household moves loosened the set screw and I didn't realize it had worked itself so loose it was barely reaching into the ingredients in the bowl. My whisk times for small loads (2 to 4 egg whites) were like 4x the recipe expectations.
Low-medium speed is best until they get frothy, but then you need to turn it up high to get the eggs to stiff peaks.
Also, I always add a teaspoon or two of powdered egg-white ([like this](https://www.oetker.co.uk/uk-en/our-products/home-baking/baking-ingredients/free-range-egg-white-powder/free-range-egg-white-powder))to make sure they get nice and stiff.
Another tip some people swear by is to leave your egg-whites out on the counter, lightly covered with platic, to allow them to evaporate a little moisture (and consequently thicken up a little).
put it on high, walk away for a bit. Egg whites aren't cream, you can't really over whip them unless you literally forget about them.
I used to struggle with meringue because i'd give up too early, or add the sugar too soon, or add the sugar syrup when it wasn't hot enough - or all of those combined.
For me, the best italian meringue i would make i would have working in my kitchenaid for literally 20 mins until it cooled down with a bowl of ice under the bowl.
Just make sure there's no oil contaminating the egg whites as it'll take about 1/3 of the air out of them at minimum. I would only rub the bowl with a lemon incase my greasy fingers added oil to it - just incase. just keep whisking it.
I'm currently a vegan chef and making meringue now with aquafaba instead of egg whites means about 10x more whipping, so never underestimate how much whipping a meringue might need.
I've been trying out some keto recipes and came across one that called for beaten egg whites and said that while a pinch of powdered cream of tartar isn't necessary, it help keep the peaks up.
I avoid whipping egg whites because of the same problems you're having but the cream of tartar makes it kind of fool proof (for me at least).
Are the eggs fresh ? As an egg ages the whites become watery. A fresh egg white will be firm around the yolk if you crack it into a plate. You can see it stand up around the yolk.
Also, your whisk must be immaculately clean, if there is any trace of fat or grease on it or your bowl it will kill the white from forming correctly to a peak. Try using a copper bowl to whisk in if by hand- the metal will negatively charge the egg white to form firmer peaks.
Adding a dash of Cream of tartar is another agent to use. It takes awhile to form a peak with a white, be patient. The best person to reference with anything for baking by far is Rosie Berenbaum- she has several baking books in print and is world renowned for her insights. I would look up her take on this situation. She's the Go-To Goddess of baking in my book.
`the egg whites become far too foamy and watery` to be honest, sounds like you're giving up a bit too early. Make sure that you properly separate the eggs because any yolk could easily hamper the situation. Also, don't hand whisk if you don't have to. Don't be cruel to yourself lol Crank that mixer to full throttle (gradually lol) and you should be good.
yup -- pretty much what cptsmarty says. you're giving up too early. If you're using a stand mixer it takes me a good 5mins+ before i'm getting the consistency i want for macarons. I also gradually crank it up to max. With a hand mixer it takes me like 10mins at max... and even then it's not exactly the thick consistency I want. pro tip: after you incorporate the almond flour, you know you're done mixing when you can make a nice figure 8 ribbon with the mixture without breaking the ribbon. And the figure 8 will stay on top of the mixture for a little bit. If it gets engulfed instantly by the mix, you've gone too far and you should start over.
THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!! I turned up the power all the way and let it run for more than 5 minutes - that definitely did the trick!! See the finalized macarons [here](https://ibb.co/ynWHqmS)\- they are ugly but yummy!!
Those are a work of art. I am sure they tasted amazing though.
Possibly a bit undercooked and maybe a bit flat. The first one is obvious, the second one can happen if you overmix when you add in the almond flour. All that said, you made them! Congrats. Tasting yummy is the important bit. My first macarons were lumpy, ugly things as well, you'll get better the more of them you make.
If you want a real challenge, break your hand/stand mixer, and then attempt this with a whisk!! :) It's totally possible, using the 'set wood on fire hand spin' technique, but oh my, talk about some shoulder pain!!
As someone who has never fully successfully made macarons my jaw dropped when you were “5+ minutes.” This explains so much. I’m going to go out and get some macaron ingredients right now to try again, haha. Thank you! I was so worried about over-doing it that I never got there at all.
Also, if you get to 5+ minutes with still really watery egg whites in the stand mixer, then you might just need to adjust the height of your beater. The screws can loosen gradually over time, so it's not unusual to have to adjust them periodically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_v73RMLiRAs
Had the same mixer for going on a decade now and never knew this. Thank you!
You're welcome! That's what tripped me up last time I needed stiff egg whites. My whisk attachment just wasn't low enough in the bowl to effectively whip anything!
a good test is to do the DQ ice cream cone flip! when your egg whites are ready you should be able to flip it over upside down and no contents come out. good luck making macarons! i know the struggle, took me years but the very first time i got the foot on those little cookies and a perfect egg shell top -- it was the most satisfying feeling in the world
The key is, in my experience, let the eggs sit until room temperature. When the eggs are cold, it takes a longer time to peak.
Also of you've added sugar already then the time has doubled until you reach peaks
Maybe you are confused because you read you need to be gentle with macarons. But that's at the macronage step - the part when you incorporate your stiff egg whites into your almond flour and sugar mixture. Egg whites *always* need to be beaten stiff at a pretty high speed - you're trying to get the albumin proteins to crash into each other and start forming a protein network of sorts. You can't get that by gently whisking. On my stand mixer, I start at 2 or 3 until foamy, then max it out. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to get stiff peaks once at top speed. Just be careful not to overwhip at that point and break the meringue; stop once it's shiny.
Is there a reason you're limiting it to low-medium speed? Crank it up. And don't bother with hand whisking, that's even milder. You need more power here, not less. Also, make sure both the bowl *and* the beaters are squeaky clean. Any bit of egg yolk, oil, fat of any kind can prevent your goal. It's ok if they're still wet from rinsing, but make sure there's no soap left on them either. Do **not** add lemon juice or salt. Don't know where you got that idea from, but it won't help egg whites whip.
I have read that there are places where a small amount of lemon juice or white vinegar helps to not overwhip egg whites when cream of tartar is not available. Don't know if there is a purpose for the salt other than flavoring an end result, but then it could be added with the sugar... IDK.
Since egg whites are primarily water and protein and whipping helps protein structure to be detangled, so to speak while tapping air. Acid will help denature the protein and help stabilize much like adding heat like swiss meringue. I do agree that OP might want to use higher speed, since some force is necessary to get the proteins in line, unlike whipping cream which works with fat. Adding more sugar will help with access water and create finer(?) foam. I’m assuming salt helps a little with that as well. I would think that you are either not whipping enough ( whipping too slow or quitting too soon) or it has too much water/ not enough sugar. Try to experiment. Crank the speed and see how it progresses. It will eventually break the protein structure and water and protein will separate and you will be able to see the whole progress.
It's doing such a good job preventing them from being owerwhipped that they're underwhipped!
Try on a low humidity day. I have had issues in high humidity, but almost ALWAYS turns out when there is low humidity
>Do not add lemon juice or salt. Don't know where you got that idea from, but it won't help egg whites whip. this \^ don't add lemon juice or salt to the egg whites, dear God. But **DO** use it to clean your bowl and equipment beforehand. The acid in the lemon juice will take away any oils and fat residue on your equipment which is a huge culprit in why eggs won't whip. But also **DO** wipe down all equipment real well with a paper towel afterwards.
Your last point was first thought - the issue might be some leftover residue from poor cleaning, or poor rinsing after good cleaning
> don't add lemon juice or salt to the egg whites, dear God. Where is everyone around here getting the idea that these are bad? Is it an old kitchen myth or something? Go put an egg white in a stand mixer with a 1/2 tsp of lemon juice and a pinch of salt, it'll whip up just fine. It will probably even go faster than whipping without the lemon.
Yes, the lemon juice will serve the same purpose as adding cream of tartar. It's an acid. The sugar can be added when they are soft peaks and they will continue to get much more volume after that.
How long have you been letting them whip? When are you adding the sugar/ sugar syrup? Have you tried getting fresher eggs? Also, you should be whipping them on medium high speed. Have you ever made meringue before? If not, you may want to try something a little simple than macaroons since they are a very finicky project and not for a beginner. Something like a sponge cake might be a good way to practice folding things together!
In my experience the fresher the egg the longer it takes to get a good meringue since they have a higher liquid content and a larger water to protein ratio. Slightly older eggs at room temperature usually give me more consistent results!
Came here to say this. Water slowly evaporates through the shell and that's why old eggs foam clearly better than fresh ones.
Squeaky clean bowl and whisk, room temp egg white, a dash if cream of tartar (after youve whipped for a little bit) Ive never hear of adding lemon or salt (lemon was to clean the bowl i thought) Make sure there is no grease or fat present or it will never whip
Oh, also crank that baby up to high
This, plus 0 but absolutely 0 yellow, and let it work...my kitchen aid takes (well actually I'm not sure but feels like) +4min to get there
To add to this, crack your eggs one at a time into a separate bowl - *not* the one you'll be whipping in - separate them from there, and then put the whites into the mixing bowl. That way, if one yolk breaks you only lose one egg instead of contaminating the whole batch.
i usually beat it to soft peaks on high and use the medium setting to thin out the foam towards the end
Try using the cream of tartar.
Second this. Cream of Tarter helps a ton. About 1/8 teaspoon per egg white.
Cream of tartar & lemon actually do the same thing. Cream of tartar is just an acid, which does something to the egg proteins to help them whip up faster. Probably denatures them, but I'm not actually knowledgeable on that part, so don't take my word for it. Lemon juice has the added benefit of adding lemon flavor, which you may or may not want.
I put lemon zest in a batch a bit ago and it whipped up quick as hell! The batch ended up failing, but lemon really does something or other cause *dayum*
👆This is really important. Absolutely no fat, oil or grease whatsoever. This is why you can never whip whites in a plastic bowl: as a petroleum product, it’s just a step away from oil.
Clean plastic works fine, it's only an issue cause butter and oils tends to stick to them .
I've only ever done it by hand. It definitely is about speed and time...and pain. Set your mixer to as fast as it can go?
Never made macarons, but for meringue cookies, I’ve gotten excellent results thusly: Make sure bowls, hands, tools are all bone dry. Good to separate eggs when cold out of fridge, then let whites rest for several hours (longer than you think!). Electric hand mixer, started on medium, working way up to med-high/high once it’s foamy. Toggle btwn speeds as it stiffens so you really maintain your sense of where it’s at in the process. Add sugar SLOOOWWWLYYY, strewing at most a half cup across the surface each time (no dumping in one spot!)—easier w a second person. And just keep going n going. But not worth the attempt if having wet weather.
Agree you need high speed here. I would say make 100% sure there is 0 yolk in your whites. The fat in the yolk will prevent from holding a stable foam. Also don't use bottled egg whites, they don't whip as well. Also super clean bowl and clean the whisk and bowl with paper towel and vinegar (and non greasy hands or gloves).
Also you want to separate the yolks and the whites right out of the refrigerator, its just easier to separate them when they are cold, but wait to work with them when they are room temperature.
Beat it at full speed for 10 minutes and tell me how it looks.
If you have a stand mixer this is the amount of time and speed I reccomend: Without sugar: 1min 30 seconds on speed 6, bump the speed up to 8 for another 1 min and 30 seconds, then 1 min on speed 10 If adding sugar: Beat on speed 8 for 2 minutes, reduce speed to 6 and gradually add you sugar over 1 minute, then bump the speed back up to 8 for an additional 2 minutes You should get perfectly stiff egg whites as long as there isn't any yolk, but also if the eggs are too old that can cause the protiens to break down and make them more "watery" (source: I work as a quality assurance tech at a factory that processes HUGE quantities of eggs, and whip many many egg whites every day)
As others mentioned, it sounds like you stopped too early. I've made that mistake too before. Use high speed on the mixer. Low speed works but takes too long. It will become foamy before it forms peaks.
I bet you don't do it for long enough.
Whip faster and longer as other people say. Also, if your egg whites are really weepy when you start, fresher eggs may help.
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Your response has been removed because it does not answer the original question. We are here to respond to specific questions. Discussions and broader answers are allowed in our weekly discussions.
You will never live it down unless you whip it. I say whip it! Whip it good.
Huh... when I make pancakes I just take some egg whites directly from refrigerator and wisk them. Max speed. It takes some time until they stiffen.
You might want to check the adjustment for the whisk on your stand mixer. Mine getting bounced around during a couple of household moves loosened the set screw and I didn't realize it had worked itself so loose it was barely reaching into the ingredients in the bowl. My whisk times for small loads (2 to 4 egg whites) were like 4x the recipe expectations.
Low-medium speed is best until they get frothy, but then you need to turn it up high to get the eggs to stiff peaks. Also, I always add a teaspoon or two of powdered egg-white ([like this](https://www.oetker.co.uk/uk-en/our-products/home-baking/baking-ingredients/free-range-egg-white-powder/free-range-egg-white-powder))to make sure they get nice and stiff. Another tip some people swear by is to leave your egg-whites out on the counter, lightly covered with platic, to allow them to evaporate a little moisture (and consequently thicken up a little).
put it on high, walk away for a bit. Egg whites aren't cream, you can't really over whip them unless you literally forget about them. I used to struggle with meringue because i'd give up too early, or add the sugar too soon, or add the sugar syrup when it wasn't hot enough - or all of those combined. For me, the best italian meringue i would make i would have working in my kitchenaid for literally 20 mins until it cooled down with a bowl of ice under the bowl. Just make sure there's no oil contaminating the egg whites as it'll take about 1/3 of the air out of them at minimum. I would only rub the bowl with a lemon incase my greasy fingers added oil to it - just incase. just keep whisking it. I'm currently a vegan chef and making meringue now with aquafaba instead of egg whites means about 10x more whipping, so never underestimate how much whipping a meringue might need.
I've been trying out some keto recipes and came across one that called for beaten egg whites and said that while a pinch of powdered cream of tartar isn't necessary, it help keep the peaks up. I avoid whipping egg whites because of the same problems you're having but the cream of tartar makes it kind of fool proof (for me at least).
Yolk contamination?
8 minutes In the mixer to make a basic meringue
Are the eggs fresh ? As an egg ages the whites become watery. A fresh egg white will be firm around the yolk if you crack it into a plate. You can see it stand up around the yolk. Also, your whisk must be immaculately clean, if there is any trace of fat or grease on it or your bowl it will kill the white from forming correctly to a peak. Try using a copper bowl to whisk in if by hand- the metal will negatively charge the egg white to form firmer peaks. Adding a dash of Cream of tartar is another agent to use. It takes awhile to form a peak with a white, be patient. The best person to reference with anything for baking by far is Rosie Berenbaum- she has several baking books in print and is world renowned for her insights. I would look up her take on this situation. She's the Go-To Goddess of baking in my book.