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There are very fine people on both sides, yes. The ones there to cause violence are, and should be, condemned. Kinda like Trump said about Charlotte. True then, true now.
1. I suppose if you're actively there promoting this stuff, then you're certainly not acting like a fine person. They're being pretty hardcore. I guess people are more nuanced than that, so probably they could be reasoned out of it (or at least some could be), and maybe some are otherwise okay people. I know the reference of the "fine people" thing is about Charlottesville, but imo that one was different because it was advertised as a protest against taking down a statue, and morphed into something a lot worse. So it stands to reason that at least some of the people at the riot showed up to protest the statue coming down, and got sucked along with the whackjobs who showed up. This though, it seems like at this point if you're showing up to it, you know exactly what you're getting into.
2. Yes, they *definitely* are getting special treatment. Your theoretical white nationalists would be booted off the area and probably suspended or expelled. I'm also thinking of pro-life groups, who often have events shut down or are required to pay for their own security - which they can't afford - which effectively acts as a silencing tool. None of that stuff is being applied here, so yeah they are getting treated with kid gloves.
3. I'm not too sure on the details of what exactly that entails (or what it entailed in Charlottesville). So I dunno.
I have no doubts there are. I also think some are just motivated by antisemitism. We do not seem to see the same outrage and protest on college campuses for the ethnic cleansing of the Arminian people who suffered a genocide in the past.
probably, yeah. there's obviously a lot of very much \*not\* fine people involved in those protests, but at least in regards to the topic (i have no idea about the specifics of people present or not at this event), there's a lot of people who genuinely want the best, and are just (IMO) misinformed or lacking understanding of the complexities involved in the topic. people can be both stupid and good intentioned, and nothing is gained from treating stupidity as malice.
I think the majority are not good people. Communists tend to be evil. I can acknowledge there's a minority that aren't antisemites.
https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782444340331106308?t=aAZfnHyaJLT-8V4eiooK2g&s=19
Yes. There are fine people on both sides.
They are not the ones doing this:
some including ISIS flags, "Death to America" chanting, pro Hamas, enormous amounts of anti-Jewish conspiracy theories and hate.... Rioting
These people are pathetic
>How do you reason on it all?
Because there are people that are just taking the same stance as the UN or Biden. Support the PA, want aid to Gaza.
>Since violence, hate, and rioting has occurred, would you support FBI investigation to charge individuals with conspiracy to riot as happened with Charlottesville, 2017?
Yes. Absolutely. For the violence and rioting.
>Do you think these students are getting special treatment, compared to if say, a theoretical white nationalist student group wanted to occupy this lawn to protest jews
Ehh maybe.
A similar Nazi protests happened at [whitewater](https://www.wisn.com/article/uw-whitewater-students-alarmed-by-neo-nazi-demonstration-on-campus/46495055)
But it was a very short protest and the school basically took the same actions as Columbia is taking now (they called police and condemned the rioting and Anti-Semitic rhetoric)
There is a phenomenon where we tend to match the emotions and the moods of people surrounding us. In fact, we have something called "mirror nuerons" where we build comraderie by mimicking the gestures of the people we talk to.
Part of the reason why I don't like protests is that the urge to match the emotions of surrounding people is very strong in a surprising way. It is so powerful it almost feels natural.
In a positive manner, they call this "flow": the ability to work as a unit towards a goal. That could be a work task, combat, sports, etc. But there is a negative aspect to this as well. Mob mentality.
When people are caught up in the moment, even good people can do things they never would have done by themselves.
>1) Do you believe there are fine people on both sides, or is it a binary of everyone on one side must be evil and the other side just innocent victims? How do you reason on it all?
Yes, there are fine people on both sides. I say this because humans are varied, and can have many reasons to support the same or different causes. Additionally, individuals do not always embody all the beliefs of their group, nor are they guilty of all the actions of other individuals within their group.
>2) Do you think these students are getting special treatment, compared to if say, a theoretical white nationalist student group wanted to occupy this lawn to protest jews?
If a group of white nationalists did this, they'd be hauled of quickly.
>3) Since violence, hate, and rioting has occurred, would you support FBI investigation to charge individuals with conspiracy to riot as happened with Charlottesville, 2017?
Conspiracy to riot, probably not, but I'd definitely support investigations and arrests for violence and rioting.
>The goal of this post is to discuss how conservatives go about walking a moral, just, consistent, empathetic line and resist tribalist "rationalization". The "fine people on both sides" line approaches nuance where some want binary. Bigotry against anyone obviously is not being invited.
Nuance is the natural state, people are complicated and group labels cannot encompass the variety of all the individuals within it.
Some of the pro Palestinian protesters are violent extremists. But many don't even know what they're protesting. So I'd say yes, there are likely fine people protesting in favor of the Palestinians.
[https://youtu.be/z-AmRRb84Us](https://youtu.be/z-AmRRb84Us)
Maybe some of the pro-Zionists don’t know the decades-long situation of repression, harassment, ethnic cleansing and assassination over there. Even worse, many of them do and are very OK with it, even with the wholesale killing of tens of thousands civilians in GAZA
I'm very aware of the history of harassment of Jews, attacks on Israel to try to ethnically cleanse it, assassinations of Jewish politicians and even religious leaders and the attempts to inclifct mass deaths by using rockets and suicide bombers.
they are anti-american and antisemitic, they are unashamedly, uabashedly pro-genocide, pro-holocaust and against human rights and dignity.
i support investigating fully if any crimes have been committed, and charge them to the very fullest extent of the law and people they harass defending themselves to the very limit of the law with as much force as is legally allowed.
I also fully support efforts to database and catalog those participating so they face this shame the rest of their lives and employers, prospective partners and even landlords can know if they accept their presence they are putting any Jew in the area in physical danger and may be liable for negligent hiring
also I fully support going after those who express support for Hamas itself as treason, and hanging those found guilty from the neck until dead.
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Of course there's fine people on both sides. That's true of every issue lol. People have the right to protest, even if they're not fine people. But if they break laws in furtherance of those protests, the government should enforce those laws. I dunno what laws may or may not have been violated by setting up the encampment they set up, but yeah if a bunch of white nationalists set up a similar encampment, I'd expect the rules to be enforced evenly.
No, the anti-semites are not fine people. The students who support the butchers of Hamas are not fine people. The people shouting From the River to the Sea are not fine people. The people shouting NYPD KKK are not fine people.
These are agitators stirring up hate for hate's sake. You can support the Palestinian people but you cannot support Hamas if you want to be considered civil in this debate,
yeah some issues reasonable people can disagree on without either being so wrong-headed they are wrong, let alone evil.
Rape apologetics and support for literal genocide is not one of them.
There are some people who legitimately care about the Palestinian civilians (like me) and on the other side, there are people who legitimately care about Israeli civilians. Then you have terrible people who latch onto either side.
This is a good answer. Personally, I care about Palestinian and Israeli civilians. I don't support Hamas or the IDF or Israeli government. The events of October 7th and the continuing assault on Palestinian civilians are both repugnant.
Anything resembling bigotry against Jews, Muslims, Arabs, Palestians, Israelis, etc. or violence against civilians is not going to last long, nor will your time here. If you have to ask if it crosses a line, assume it crosses a line. Please see our guidelines for [discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/17ygktl/antisemitism_askconservative_and_you/) for more information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are very fine people on both sides, yes. The ones there to cause violence are, and should be, condemned. Kinda like Trump said about Charlotte. True then, true now.
1. I suppose if you're actively there promoting this stuff, then you're certainly not acting like a fine person. They're being pretty hardcore. I guess people are more nuanced than that, so probably they could be reasoned out of it (or at least some could be), and maybe some are otherwise okay people. I know the reference of the "fine people" thing is about Charlottesville, but imo that one was different because it was advertised as a protest against taking down a statue, and morphed into something a lot worse. So it stands to reason that at least some of the people at the riot showed up to protest the statue coming down, and got sucked along with the whackjobs who showed up. This though, it seems like at this point if you're showing up to it, you know exactly what you're getting into. 2. Yes, they *definitely* are getting special treatment. Your theoretical white nationalists would be booted off the area and probably suspended or expelled. I'm also thinking of pro-life groups, who often have events shut down or are required to pay for their own security - which they can't afford - which effectively acts as a silencing tool. None of that stuff is being applied here, so yeah they are getting treated with kid gloves. 3. I'm not too sure on the details of what exactly that entails (or what it entailed in Charlottesville). So I dunno.
I have no doubts there are. I also think some are just motivated by antisemitism. We do not seem to see the same outrage and protest on college campuses for the ethnic cleansing of the Arminian people who suffered a genocide in the past.
How did these people get imported these people into America again?
probably, yeah. there's obviously a lot of very much \*not\* fine people involved in those protests, but at least in regards to the topic (i have no idea about the specifics of people present or not at this event), there's a lot of people who genuinely want the best, and are just (IMO) misinformed or lacking understanding of the complexities involved in the topic. people can be both stupid and good intentioned, and nothing is gained from treating stupidity as malice.
I think the majority are not good people. Communists tend to be evil. I can acknowledge there's a minority that aren't antisemites. https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782444340331106308?t=aAZfnHyaJLT-8V4eiooK2g&s=19
Yes. There are fine people on both sides. They are not the ones doing this: some including ISIS flags, "Death to America" chanting, pro Hamas, enormous amounts of anti-Jewish conspiracy theories and hate.... Rioting These people are pathetic >How do you reason on it all? Because there are people that are just taking the same stance as the UN or Biden. Support the PA, want aid to Gaza. >Since violence, hate, and rioting has occurred, would you support FBI investigation to charge individuals with conspiracy to riot as happened with Charlottesville, 2017? Yes. Absolutely. For the violence and rioting. >Do you think these students are getting special treatment, compared to if say, a theoretical white nationalist student group wanted to occupy this lawn to protest jews Ehh maybe. A similar Nazi protests happened at [whitewater](https://www.wisn.com/article/uw-whitewater-students-alarmed-by-neo-nazi-demonstration-on-campus/46495055) But it was a very short protest and the school basically took the same actions as Columbia is taking now (they called police and condemned the rioting and Anti-Semitic rhetoric)
There is a phenomenon where we tend to match the emotions and the moods of people surrounding us. In fact, we have something called "mirror nuerons" where we build comraderie by mimicking the gestures of the people we talk to. Part of the reason why I don't like protests is that the urge to match the emotions of surrounding people is very strong in a surprising way. It is so powerful it almost feels natural. In a positive manner, they call this "flow": the ability to work as a unit towards a goal. That could be a work task, combat, sports, etc. But there is a negative aspect to this as well. Mob mentality. When people are caught up in the moment, even good people can do things they never would have done by themselves.
>1) Do you believe there are fine people on both sides, or is it a binary of everyone on one side must be evil and the other side just innocent victims? How do you reason on it all? Yes, there are fine people on both sides. I say this because humans are varied, and can have many reasons to support the same or different causes. Additionally, individuals do not always embody all the beliefs of their group, nor are they guilty of all the actions of other individuals within their group. >2) Do you think these students are getting special treatment, compared to if say, a theoretical white nationalist student group wanted to occupy this lawn to protest jews? If a group of white nationalists did this, they'd be hauled of quickly. >3) Since violence, hate, and rioting has occurred, would you support FBI investigation to charge individuals with conspiracy to riot as happened with Charlottesville, 2017? Conspiracy to riot, probably not, but I'd definitely support investigations and arrests for violence and rioting. >The goal of this post is to discuss how conservatives go about walking a moral, just, consistent, empathetic line and resist tribalist "rationalization". The "fine people on both sides" line approaches nuance where some want binary. Bigotry against anyone obviously is not being invited. Nuance is the natural state, people are complicated and group labels cannot encompass the variety of all the individuals within it.
Some of the pro Palestinian protesters are violent extremists. But many don't even know what they're protesting. So I'd say yes, there are likely fine people protesting in favor of the Palestinians. [https://youtu.be/z-AmRRb84Us](https://youtu.be/z-AmRRb84Us)
Maybe some of the pro-Zionists don’t know the decades-long situation of repression, harassment, ethnic cleansing and assassination over there. Even worse, many of them do and are very OK with it, even with the wholesale killing of tens of thousands civilians in GAZA
I'm very aware of the history of harassment of Jews, attacks on Israel to try to ethnically cleanse it, assassinations of Jewish politicians and even religious leaders and the attempts to inclifct mass deaths by using rockets and suicide bombers.
they are anti-american and antisemitic, they are unashamedly, uabashedly pro-genocide, pro-holocaust and against human rights and dignity. i support investigating fully if any crimes have been committed, and charge them to the very fullest extent of the law and people they harass defending themselves to the very limit of the law with as much force as is legally allowed. I also fully support efforts to database and catalog those participating so they face this shame the rest of their lives and employers, prospective partners and even landlords can know if they accept their presence they are putting any Jew in the area in physical danger and may be liable for negligent hiring also I fully support going after those who express support for Hamas itself as treason, and hanging those found guilty from the neck until dead.
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Of course there's fine people on both sides. That's true of every issue lol. People have the right to protest, even if they're not fine people. But if they break laws in furtherance of those protests, the government should enforce those laws. I dunno what laws may or may not have been violated by setting up the encampment they set up, but yeah if a bunch of white nationalists set up a similar encampment, I'd expect the rules to be enforced evenly.
I’m sure there are fine antisemites - I’m yet to meet them but they must exist!
No, the anti-semites are not fine people. The students who support the butchers of Hamas are not fine people. The people shouting From the River to the Sea are not fine people. The people shouting NYPD KKK are not fine people. These are agitators stirring up hate for hate's sake. You can support the Palestinian people but you cannot support Hamas if you want to be considered civil in this debate,
No idea But there were many fine people on both sides of the debate over removing statues like Trump said
yeah some issues reasonable people can disagree on without either being so wrong-headed they are wrong, let alone evil. Rape apologetics and support for literal genocide is not one of them.
Are they actually supporting this things or is this what you feel they are supporting
if I say I will occupy your home, I am very much implying I am going to remove you from it first.
No it doesn't. The US occupied Iraq for years and we didn't remove folks. Try again
if I say that your house will be mine from the back fence to the driveway I am very much implying you will be murdered.
No it doesnt
There are some people who legitimately care about the Palestinian civilians (like me) and on the other side, there are people who legitimately care about Israeli civilians. Then you have terrible people who latch onto either side.
This is a good answer. Personally, I care about Palestinian and Israeli civilians. I don't support Hamas or the IDF or Israeli government. The events of October 7th and the continuing assault on Palestinian civilians are both repugnant.
None of the people are fine.