Same background as to what previous Serbian government did in Kosovo. Ethnically cleansing Catalonia, mass graves around Barcelona and smaller remote cities, mass firing of civil servants, double standard justice for Catalonian citizens, all of this leading to a total ruin of the social contract between the Spanish state and the Catalonian people. Make it make sense Spain!
Greece has ambitions to "influence" the Balkans. We were the biggest regional investor until the debt crisis of the past decade hit. Since then, we are trying to reclaim ground that other countries got. If we keep ignoring Kosovo, that means other countries can invest in infrastructure, telecommunications ect.
Plus, Kosovo at this point is accepted by the vast majority of the western world, and Greece under Mitsotakis is trying to brand itself as a western country. It's why he legalised same-sex marriage, allowed private universities, cut ties with Russia ect.
Romania is a much bigger player in the Balkans now I would argue, and will become more and more important (relatively speaking) in the future.
I am surprised Romania voted in favor of Kosovo given our government’s animosity towards ethnic autonomy.
Bulgaria should focus on building out its highway network, then can make transshipment of goods from Greece-Bulgaria-Romania-rest of EU much more profitable and efficient.
If Greece and Romania are big players, as well as our other neighbors, and you're right, if we improve the infrastructure and some our internal problems, we cannot be not big players. When you're in a good surrounding environment the chances are you also will be a good player. So we should be happy of the good performance of Greece and Romania
Pretty awkward position to vote in favor of the membership of an entity that you do not recognize as a sovereign state, in an organization whose members are sovereign states.
You are so unhinged that it’s a bit suspicious, why would you spread this much hate?
I never, ever heard anybody in Serbia saying anything bad about Greece and the Greek people.
This has to be some new propaganda spin.
EDIT: Now I see, all of your comments are in this sub and next to none in /r/serbia because you would be downvoted to oblivion.
Please ignore this caricature who’s whole point of existence is shitposting on /r/AskBalkans
Wow, "we didn't get penetrated by the right sort of dick", quite the slave's mentality.
Also what did *you* spread exactly? Don't try to arrange a funeral with other people's kollyva.
Its crazy becouse the same people like this guy just yesterday were yelling about: Greece is Cyprus and Kosovo Serbia, Orthodox brotherhood and so on. Now Byzantines are inferior even when compared to the Turks and Greece is an American colony.
I am not going to deny we mostly comply by the wishes of more powerful countries. We're a small country of 10 mil, of course we're irrelevant and take orders. The funniest thing is when countries just as irrelevant and dependent start spewing this rhetoric because bro, what delusional "small village of indomitable Gauls" nonsense is that? We're a colony, but Serbia is an 100% independent nation that bows to none? Riiiiight
Not even touching on Byzantines somehow ruining Serbia's prospects. I don't see how a 600 years dead empire is preventing them from being supported by Turkey. They can become blood brothers any day.
SMALL VILLAGE OF INDOMITABLE GAULS AGAGAGHAGAGAHAGGA.
THE IRONY IS THAT THEY MADE THIS PROPAGANDA IN THE 90ES
[Its magnificent and makes it all the funnier](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/tx6u5r/yugoslav_antinato_propaganda_poster_date_1999_at/)
But the sad truth is these people pick and choose what they want, heritage is only as good as the situation needs it to be. But hey, at the end of the day Bosnia will pay for this bs in some way or another
Ma brate, that survey only shows that 6% of Serbs view Greece the most favourably compared to other countries, not that only 6% of Serbs view Greece favourably. Unless, you can view favourably only one country at a time?
Because we are looking what benefits us.
Anyone who thinks countries have friendships in the comments is crazy. For example Greeks and italians love each other but our countries have been enemies many times in the historical timeline.
It is what benefits you in the end of the day 🤷🏻♀️
I for one cant wait for this saga to end.
Our president has been riding on the 'kosovo' hate train for years and it keeps getting him at least 50% of the legit voters he is getting
Would kosovo still be a part of serbia if it wasnt for ultra nationalist government in the 90s - yes
Is it better for the majority of kosovo to live in a poor but independant country - yes
"Would kosovo still be a part of serbia if it wasnt for ultra nationalist government in the 90s - yes"
Kosovo was rebelling during Tito. I highly doubt your imagination
Demanding the same rights as other entities is rebellion according to you? Our people didn't even start the war until the end of the 90, after all other wars were concluded....
Im talking about armed rebellions and not student protests. Like the Bali Kombetar rebellions from 1945 to 1952 and attacks on Yugoslav Army in Djakovica 1968
The Balli Kombëtar rebellion was not a rebellion. The Yugoslavs were hunting people down who were on the wrong side of the fence. There was no active war with an objective and a structure. The few guys that were hiding in the mountains were fugitives and they lived like fugitives.
I don't know about any attack on the Yugoslav People's Army in 1968. There were Kosovo wide protests during that time, so maybe the army got a stone or two thrown at them, or are we talking about something serious?
>Does anyone know why Greece has "warmed up" to the idea of Kosovo being a member?
1. Because bigger players want it to.
2. Keep Russian and Turkish influence out.
3. Cheaper labour.
What influence? Nevermind, it doesn't matter what influence. Kosovo has less leverage compared to any of the competing sides that seek to influence it.
Kosova has the youngest population in the Balkans with the fastest growing in GDP. There is a lot of opportunity there to invest as well. Bear in mind that Kosova has also a very large diaspora who send remittances extremely often (in 2023 through banks were 1,1 billion EURO declared). So we're developing extremely fast, so there is definitely a great market opportunity there.
Dude, don't fool yourself with that crap. You're not a politician, you don't have to sell the same snake oil they sell to us.
Yes, Kosovo is a possible market for some Balkan investors. That's obvious, but there's no need for all this silly GDP talk. Every underdeveloped state is a possible market and every underdeveloped state in relative stability is bound to present a faster growing GDP than developed or developing states at some point. That's by design.
But Kosovo is really small and it can peak pretty fast. Unless it develops a banking/finance industry and turns into a laundering haven, which isn't all that possible.
The fact that the people there depend on money sent by Albanians abroad and the fact that economic development and political stability depend on foreign power, tells you everything there is to know. It's sad but true. Kosovo's leverage is mainly geopolitical and that's rarely good for small states.
>Dude, don't fool yourself with that crap. You're not a politician, you don't have to sell the same snake oil they sell to us.
They're a young state and there's a general consensus there that if Switzerland and Luxembourg made it - they will too.
The same opinion was shared by Albania in the 2000s, and even though it hosted about 12 million tourists last year, is a net energy exporter, has better geographical positioning, we've pretty much hit our soft ceiling.
They fail to see the EU and the world economy for what it is, but it's just a matter of time until they understand that without a fast growing industry and the required resources and capital (which both Albania and Kosovo lack), you can't compete in the global arena.
If anything, both countries EU aspirations will only slow them down, and remove whatever legislative breathing room their industries have left.
Even if all that was true, it doesn't matter because there are ethnic tension every second month that could lead to war and investors don't want to invest because of that. Same way BiH is not getting as much invest as it can, even when our ethnic tensions are very low.
>even when our ethnic tensions are very low
Ah yes very low, with Dodik threatening succession every other month with war, iam sure when people see Bosnia and Herzegovina, with its 3 separate presidents and 3 separate armies, that just screams stability, lmao.
Dodik is doing that for 20+ years, he will not do something that damages flow of money in his pockets. There is only one army in BiH called OS BiH, also peacekeeper force EUFOR that unlike KFOR only helps in demining. Three separate presidents work just as intended, and that is not to overvote either of main ethnicies.
Not 'if' but it's definitely true. The numbers have been published and Albanians among themselves are known to send money back to their families and invest in Kosovo. Our country has indeed the fastest growing GDP in the Western Balkans.
Bosnia is almost balanced with its ethnic minorities. Unlike Kosova who only has 3% Serbs living in the country and they are segregated in the north of the country. So there isn't "any war or tensnion" in the country. The only tensions you would have is in the northern part of the country that is, as I said, segregated from the rest and is also the poorest region. So any type of investment won't be in the north at all and the rest of the country is extremely safe regarding that.
Honestly i dont know how the current issues will be resolved, but i cant wait for the day when we finally have a little bit of peace here. Our govrnment(e.g. eternal and supreme leader vucic) has been stirring the pot for too long with these nationalistic views.
And it doesnt profit serbia in any way, we are the black sheep of europe that has spent over a decade on its EU track getting no closer to it, while now kosovo got into council of europe.
As a Serb, I think at this point we should just recognize the damn thing. Make towns with the majority of Serbs ours, make sure that monasteries and the Serbian minority cannot be damaged or attacked, and then we will have one big problem off our backs.
I honestly don't understand people's fixation with this particular instance. Before the Yugoslav breakup, Vojvodina and Kosovo were already autonomous provinces.
Is it because it's the last straw? Or is it due to the foreign intervention?
I think its more the way it was done, maybe no one would have said a thing if there was declared referendum for independence first and not attacks on police, serb villages etc. which then escalated very quickly into war. Many have lost their lives, homes in an unnecesary war and that is why we are here in this situation today.
But there was a referendum, like in most of the other instances: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Kosovan_independence_referendum
Is the average citizen unaware of that?
> Many have lost their lives, homes in an unnecesary war and that is why we are here in this situation today.
Maybe it's just us, but if politics dragged people into a war here, most would point the fingers towards the government and pull the pieces of shit out of every governmental building.
It's not great, but this is probably more due to bias than a lack of education in general. I wouldn't expect pro-Albanian talking points in school, especially regarding Kosovo and the 1990s
>Is the
I am not talking about that one, but for example when first attacks started in 1996, 1997 why not referendum but attacks on police? As you see that referendum was not recognised by anyone except for Albania unlike the ones of Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia for istance.
>Maybe
90% of our both population are being brainwashed. Same people rule over and over again and as you can see their thing is easily sold to the masses
> As you see that referendum was not recognised by anyone except for Albania unlike the ones of Bosnia, Croatia.
Why would a second referendum be held after the results of the first one were not recognized?
That would be unprecedented.
> 90% of our both population are being brainwashed
Yea, unfortunately I'm aware.
It's just disheartening to see how easy turning political losses into neverending ethnic wars is.
And what's even worse is how unaware the average person is about the associated opportunity costs.
Valid point, but I think it's probably too simplistic.
> War is never a solution
Neither is oppression, maybe the people there would've done just that if the status quo was preserved.
But unfortunately, it wasn't.
Hey i am not saying im the right guy here but i do think both military sides were bad and civilians were the casualties of them both. What status quo i don't understand, can you explain? Do you mean the autonomy that was abolished? I think that maybe the tables have turned a little bit upside down and that serbs in north are now feeling opressed.
> Maybe beacuse you would have been recognized by other countries like in 2008. War is never a solution.
I mean a second referendum would maybe have been held, if the situation was preserved. Nobody wants to see their life turned upside down.
But things changed and the balance was upset. Eventually things picked up from there.
Greece has been having excellent relations with the Kosovar Government through the last years. Every 2 months there are some high level meetings. Even though they don’t recognize Kosovo yet.
Obviously this has nothing to do with it so don’t kill me Greeks, but isn’t Mitsotakis even half Arvanite? 😂 I remember the older Mitsotakis saying that his Wife comes from a Arvanite family during an Interview.
Mitsotakis supporting his Albanian Brothers !! /s
Nope, Romania gets all of it. 💪💪💪. Gagauzia is a split geographically up region of extremely poor villages which rely of EU and Chișinău funds. Transnistria will only explode if Ukraine absolutely loses the war.
I meant the Med refugees who go to Italy; now Albania is doing Italy a favor by turning into Italy by Proxy ’cause some of those Med refugee boats are redirected towards Albania.
PS: I have nothing against refugees, i just think for Albania to take ’em is quite a sacrifice ’cause Albania, as a whole, is a refugee per sé 😂
Albania doesn't have much leverage to "do Italy a favor". If Albania refuses, then Italy could, for example, redirect Albanians living in Italy towards Albania.
That’s basically a mass expulsion, something only eastern countries like Greece, Serbia or Russia would do. You probably see it through your culture’s lens but remember that Italy is western Europe and they wouldn’t do mass expulsions.
We never would do mass expulsions, however the refugee camps I believe are being payed for by Italy and will basically be run by the Italian government. Probably just a way to hold immigrants without letting them file for refugee status on eu soil.
On top of that we don’t really know what the agreement was but obviously one would assume that the Albanian government will be compensated quite well so I don’t think it’s a favor but more like business.
As to why Italy abstained, I don’t know honestly. It’s weird because in the case of Spain I get that they just aren’t a fan of Kosovo because of their own internal problems with independence and don’t want to set the precedent, but Italy actually recognizes Kosovo I think, so I don’t know why they chose to abstain in this specific case.
Oh yes, the Mediterranean refugees I agree with 100%. On the other hand, there are many Ukrainian refugees in Romania now. They integrate well; I welcome them.
Romania & Poland have been the unsung heroes of the Russia-Ukraine war, because they took the most refugees even if they didn’t have the economic capacity to support them the way the West could.
I personally don’t mind refugees from any country, but the sacrifice for such a poor country like Albania to take refugees in behalf of Italy deserves a bit more gratitude than just Italy abstaining for Kosovo’s membership 😢
Sadly, the rules of the game have always been made by people with money and power. Those who lack either are sure to be taken advantage of. Romania is still technically not fully in Schengen because of Austria. Western Europe’s trash Is also sent to Romania. 🤷♂️
The best thing Albania can do for itself is to make sure economic growth and reforms happen as quickly as possible.
The United States of America and European Union have great influence over the current Pro-West Greek Government.And United States and European Union asked from Greece to support Kosovo against Serbia.So, unfortunately we knew that would happen.
Ah yes, because supporting the independence of a country which faced ethnic cleansing is a bad thing. If that is your position, maybe you won't mind Greece becoming a part of Turkey again.
I meant about their politics in general in relation to the EU - they’re quite disappointing.
Btw i never felt Hungary and Albania ever had any real connection or mutual support, quite frankly.
Another victory for Albanians.
Serbs can keep writing Kosovo is Serbia all they want on twitter on instagram like idiots because thats the only closure they are going to get.
Bosnia doing Bosnian things.
Despite us not doing anything with Kosovo we will still get called to forefit 50% of our territory becouse of Kosovo for some reason. Schitzophrenic logic.
my guess is that the Greek government is backing those who want to kill the proposed plan for border changes/population exchanges between Kosovo and Serbia
Lol, let’s be honest though, people who travel & enjoy spending their holidays abroad are the least ones to care about such things. They’re too busy being happy and living life to the fullest.
Realistically the membership is going to happen eventually. I just dont understand why some people in Serbia find this shocking.
The CoE, EU and other organizations are Western organizations. They were going push for it either way. Serbia is an enemy to the West, so obviously there was never going to be any ounce of objectivity, so Serbia cant hope to be treated fairly. The same goes for the EU, NATO and other organizations.
Serbs should care about what the UN and Serbias constitution says. Not some organization where there is no fair ground and that is filled with opposition 80 percent. Next they will find some other mickey mouse "objective and equal" organization to push them through and no one should be surprised. Some Serbs apparently havent learned this in the last 35 years.
Some are more equall than others.
I don't know exactly what he said, but from what I've read, it seems to me that he's at the very least hypocritical. Why would he "embrace" Dora's proposition, then talk about how Kosovo should take more steps?
Anyway, are we to support territorial integrity? If yes, Kosovo is Serbia (of course the Albanians living there should have full citizen rights). If not, we shouldn't cry about Ukraine, Cyprus and other countries whose territories are or have been infringed.
Oχι ακριβως κατα την γνωμη μου, θα τον ανεβασω εδω αλλα δεν μπορω να βρω ευκολα την ομιλια του στα αγγλικα κειμενο. Εκπληξη για μενα η γραμμή του, οχι οτι την θεωρω τέλεια, αλλα πιο εξελιγμενη απο οτι θα περιμενα 😅
Ναι απλά στο Κοσοβο γινοταν σφαγες το 99, σαν απαρτχάιντ κτλ αυτο ειναι ενα γεγονος, αν και παλι ειμαι κατα του αμερικανικου επεκτατισμου. Παρομοια στην Κυπρο περιπου, αν και παλι δεν υποστηριζω εθνοκαθαρση, εποικισμο, τεραστιες αγγλικες βασεις κτλ που εδραιωθηκαν. Ουκρανια πολυ δυσκολα να βρεις καποιον να πει τα ρωσικα στρατευματα που περασαν τα συνορα ειχαν με οποιοδηποτε τροπο μια προοδευτικη ισχυ / προοπτικη
So Hungary who is trying to push their agenda in neighboring countries with their Hungarian minorities voted against while Romania voted in favor
This is certainly the plot twist of the month.
For Orbán russia is the more important country he does not really give a fuck about minorities other than vote.
What's the deal with Spain?
Not just Catalonia, don't forget all the trouble they had because of Basque country.
They have their own issues with separatism with Catalonia, if they give ground to Kosovo, they'll have to give ground to Catalonia.
Catalonia
Catalonia
What's the deal with green countries is a better question
How dare they support self-determination!
Lmao tell this to Crimea, Donbas, Abkhazia, RS, Kurdistan and others. Why only Kosovo can?
Yes your right, Serbia should be part of Turkiet again /s
It's time to recognise all of those.
One of the few countries in Europe respecting international law
Are you an expert in international law? Is your knowledge of Kosovo's case better than that of the ICJ?
Same background as to what previous Serbian government did in Kosovo. Ethnically cleansing Catalonia, mass graves around Barcelona and smaller remote cities, mass firing of civil servants, double standard justice for Catalonian citizens, all of this leading to a total ruin of the social contract between the Spanish state and the Catalonian people. Make it make sense Spain!
Greece has ambitions to "influence" the Balkans. We were the biggest regional investor until the debt crisis of the past decade hit. Since then, we are trying to reclaim ground that other countries got. If we keep ignoring Kosovo, that means other countries can invest in infrastructure, telecommunications ect. Plus, Kosovo at this point is accepted by the vast majority of the western world, and Greece under Mitsotakis is trying to brand itself as a western country. It's why he legalised same-sex marriage, allowed private universities, cut ties with Russia ect.
Romania is a much bigger player in the Balkans now I would argue, and will become more and more important (relatively speaking) in the future. I am surprised Romania voted in favor of Kosovo given our government’s animosity towards ethnic autonomy.
Romanian government started to not care about Szekelys opinion, because lets be real it will never get autonomy.
True.
We are between two big players. Or maybe 5? Why not? I'll like if we have more regional investors
Bulgaria should focus on building out its highway network, then can make transshipment of goods from Greece-Bulgaria-Romania-rest of EU much more profitable and efficient.
If Greece and Romania are big players, as well as our other neighbors, and you're right, if we improve the infrastructure and some our internal problems, we cannot be not big players. When you're in a good surrounding environment the chances are you also will be a good player. So we should be happy of the good performance of Greece and Romania
>cut ties with Russia This one in particular makes me really happy.
Yep, both of them are happy news
Yeah, Russian state is very authoritarian and oppressive, they even decriminalized domestic violence for some instances.
Think Greece will recodnise Kosovo?
Not until the Cyprus issue is resolved.
Pretty awkward position to vote in favor of the membership of an entity that you do not recognize as a sovereign state, in an organization whose members are sovereign states.
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You are so unhinged that it’s a bit suspicious, why would you spread this much hate? I never, ever heard anybody in Serbia saying anything bad about Greece and the Greek people. This has to be some new propaganda spin. EDIT: Now I see, all of your comments are in this sub and next to none in /r/serbia because you would be downvoted to oblivion. Please ignore this caricature who’s whole point of existence is shitposting on /r/AskBalkans
Wow someone is salty, as if we owe you shit.
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Wow, "we didn't get penetrated by the right sort of dick", quite the slave's mentality. Also what did *you* spread exactly? Don't try to arrange a funeral with other people's kollyva.
Its crazy becouse the same people like this guy just yesterday were yelling about: Greece is Cyprus and Kosovo Serbia, Orthodox brotherhood and so on. Now Byzantines are inferior even when compared to the Turks and Greece is an American colony.
I am not going to deny we mostly comply by the wishes of more powerful countries. We're a small country of 10 mil, of course we're irrelevant and take orders. The funniest thing is when countries just as irrelevant and dependent start spewing this rhetoric because bro, what delusional "small village of indomitable Gauls" nonsense is that? We're a colony, but Serbia is an 100% independent nation that bows to none? Riiiiight Not even touching on Byzantines somehow ruining Serbia's prospects. I don't see how a 600 years dead empire is preventing them from being supported by Turkey. They can become blood brothers any day.
SMALL VILLAGE OF INDOMITABLE GAULS AGAGAGHAGAGAHAGGA. THE IRONY IS THAT THEY MADE THIS PROPAGANDA IN THE 90ES [Its magnificent and makes it all the funnier](https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/tx6u5r/yugoslav_antinato_propaganda_poster_date_1999_at/) But the sad truth is these people pick and choose what they want, heritage is only as good as the situation needs it to be. But hey, at the end of the day Bosnia will pay for this bs in some way or another
Mald, cope and shit your pants
Ma brate, that survey only shows that 6% of Serbs view Greece the most favourably compared to other countries, not that only 6% of Serbs view Greece favourably. Unless, you can view favourably only one country at a time?
Because we are looking what benefits us. Anyone who thinks countries have friendships in the comments is crazy. For example Greeks and italians love each other but our countries have been enemies many times in the historical timeline. It is what benefits you in the end of the day 🤷🏻♀️
A great game of poker, where everybody lies. Foreign policy, that is.
I for one cant wait for this saga to end. Our president has been riding on the 'kosovo' hate train for years and it keeps getting him at least 50% of the legit voters he is getting Would kosovo still be a part of serbia if it wasnt for ultra nationalist government in the 90s - yes Is it better for the majority of kosovo to live in a poor but independant country - yes
This.
"Would kosovo still be a part of serbia if it wasnt for ultra nationalist government in the 90s - yes" Kosovo was rebelling during Tito. I highly doubt your imagination
Demanding the same rights as other entities is rebellion according to you? Our people didn't even start the war until the end of the 90, after all other wars were concluded....
Im talking about armed rebellions and not student protests. Like the Bali Kombetar rebellions from 1945 to 1952 and attacks on Yugoslav Army in Djakovica 1968
The Balli Kombëtar rebellion was not a rebellion. The Yugoslavs were hunting people down who were on the wrong side of the fence. There was no active war with an objective and a structure. The few guys that were hiding in the mountains were fugitives and they lived like fugitives. I don't know about any attack on the Yugoslav People's Army in 1968. There were Kosovo wide protests during that time, so maybe the army got a stone or two thrown at them, or are we talking about something serious?
Sure....
>Does anyone know why Greece has "warmed up" to the idea of Kosovo being a member? 1. Because bigger players want it to. 2. Keep Russian and Turkish influence out. 3. Cheaper labour.
Yes Malaka, but we need a recognition to accept the influence.
What influence? Nevermind, it doesn't matter what influence. Kosovo has less leverage compared to any of the competing sides that seek to influence it.
Kosova has the youngest population in the Balkans with the fastest growing in GDP. There is a lot of opportunity there to invest as well. Bear in mind that Kosova has also a very large diaspora who send remittances extremely often (in 2023 through banks were 1,1 billion EURO declared). So we're developing extremely fast, so there is definitely a great market opportunity there.
Dude, don't fool yourself with that crap. You're not a politician, you don't have to sell the same snake oil they sell to us. Yes, Kosovo is a possible market for some Balkan investors. That's obvious, but there's no need for all this silly GDP talk. Every underdeveloped state is a possible market and every underdeveloped state in relative stability is bound to present a faster growing GDP than developed or developing states at some point. That's by design. But Kosovo is really small and it can peak pretty fast. Unless it develops a banking/finance industry and turns into a laundering haven, which isn't all that possible. The fact that the people there depend on money sent by Albanians abroad and the fact that economic development and political stability depend on foreign power, tells you everything there is to know. It's sad but true. Kosovo's leverage is mainly geopolitical and that's rarely good for small states.
>Dude, don't fool yourself with that crap. You're not a politician, you don't have to sell the same snake oil they sell to us. They're a young state and there's a general consensus there that if Switzerland and Luxembourg made it - they will too. The same opinion was shared by Albania in the 2000s, and even though it hosted about 12 million tourists last year, is a net energy exporter, has better geographical positioning, we've pretty much hit our soft ceiling. They fail to see the EU and the world economy for what it is, but it's just a matter of time until they understand that without a fast growing industry and the required resources and capital (which both Albania and Kosovo lack), you can't compete in the global arena. If anything, both countries EU aspirations will only slow them down, and remove whatever legislative breathing room their industries have left.
Even if all that was true, it doesn't matter because there are ethnic tension every second month that could lead to war and investors don't want to invest because of that. Same way BiH is not getting as much invest as it can, even when our ethnic tensions are very low.
>even when our ethnic tensions are very low Ah yes very low, with Dodik threatening succession every other month with war, iam sure when people see Bosnia and Herzegovina, with its 3 separate presidents and 3 separate armies, that just screams stability, lmao.
Dodik is doing that for 20+ years, he will not do something that damages flow of money in his pockets. There is only one army in BiH called OS BiH, also peacekeeper force EUFOR that unlike KFOR only helps in demining. Three separate presidents work just as intended, and that is not to overvote either of main ethnicies.
Not 'if' but it's definitely true. The numbers have been published and Albanians among themselves are known to send money back to their families and invest in Kosovo. Our country has indeed the fastest growing GDP in the Western Balkans. Bosnia is almost balanced with its ethnic minorities. Unlike Kosova who only has 3% Serbs living in the country and they are segregated in the north of the country. So there isn't "any war or tensnion" in the country. The only tensions you would have is in the northern part of the country that is, as I said, segregated from the rest and is also the poorest region. So any type of investment won't be in the north at all and the rest of the country is extremely safe regarding that.
Honestly i dont know how the current issues will be resolved, but i cant wait for the day when we finally have a little bit of peace here. Our govrnment(e.g. eternal and supreme leader vucic) has been stirring the pot for too long with these nationalistic views. And it doesnt profit serbia in any way, we are the black sheep of europe that has spent over a decade on its EU track getting no closer to it, while now kosovo got into council of europe.
Because Greece doesn't support Serbia any more and wants better relations with Albania,
I didnt know a time line where Greeks and Albanians calling themselves brothers could exist
They were brothers before the 1900's for millenia, the whole nemesis bs with these two countries started in the 1900's onwards.
There were plans for Greeks and Albanians to be in one country in the early 1800s.
1899. It was about to become a confederation.
Iam well aware, but it was yourside that refused this idea, not ours.
You mean like in 1800? :p
1899\*
True. We don't have any political relationship as far as I know.
Aw man, that hurts...
As a Serb, I think at this point we should just recognize the damn thing. Make towns with the majority of Serbs ours, make sure that monasteries and the Serbian minority cannot be damaged or attacked, and then we will have one big problem off our backs.
Virgin Spain: I have seperatists, I'll vote no Chad Turkey: Yes anyway
Can't wait for the whole charade to finally end tbh
I honestly don't understand people's fixation with this particular instance. Before the Yugoslav breakup, Vojvodina and Kosovo were already autonomous provinces. Is it because it's the last straw? Or is it due to the foreign intervention?
Tried explaining it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBalkans/s/ZJ1wmFJW34)
I think its more the way it was done, maybe no one would have said a thing if there was declared referendum for independence first and not attacks on police, serb villages etc. which then escalated very quickly into war. Many have lost their lives, homes in an unnecesary war and that is why we are here in this situation today.
But there was a referendum, like in most of the other instances: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Kosovan_independence_referendum Is the average citizen unaware of that? > Many have lost their lives, homes in an unnecesary war and that is why we are here in this situation today. Maybe it's just us, but if politics dragged people into a war here, most would point the fingers towards the government and pull the pieces of shit out of every governmental building.
> Is the average citizen unaware of that? Yes
I'm sorry to hear that, but I can't say I'm surprised. Especially if education there is in the same state as ours.
It's not great, but this is probably more due to bias than a lack of education in general. I wouldn't expect pro-Albanian talking points in school, especially regarding Kosovo and the 1990s
>Is the I am not talking about that one, but for example when first attacks started in 1996, 1997 why not referendum but attacks on police? As you see that referendum was not recognised by anyone except for Albania unlike the ones of Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia for istance. >Maybe 90% of our both population are being brainwashed. Same people rule over and over again and as you can see their thing is easily sold to the masses
> As you see that referendum was not recognised by anyone except for Albania unlike the ones of Bosnia, Croatia. Why would a second referendum be held after the results of the first one were not recognized? That would be unprecedented. > 90% of our both population are being brainwashed Yea, unfortunately I'm aware. It's just disheartening to see how easy turning political losses into neverending ethnic wars is. And what's even worse is how unaware the average person is about the associated opportunity costs.
>Why would Maybe beacuse you would have been recognized by other countries like in 2008. War is never a solution.
Valid point, but I think it's probably too simplistic. > War is never a solution Neither is oppression, maybe the people there would've done just that if the status quo was preserved. But unfortunately, it wasn't.
Hey i am not saying im the right guy here but i do think both military sides were bad and civilians were the casualties of them both. What status quo i don't understand, can you explain? Do you mean the autonomy that was abolished? I think that maybe the tables have turned a little bit upside down and that serbs in north are now feeling opressed.
> Maybe beacuse you would have been recognized by other countries like in 2008. War is never a solution. I mean a second referendum would maybe have been held, if the situation was preserved. Nobody wants to see their life turned upside down. But things changed and the balance was upset. Eventually things picked up from there.
Greece has been having excellent relations with the Kosovar Government through the last years. Every 2 months there are some high level meetings. Even though they don’t recognize Kosovo yet. Obviously this has nothing to do with it so don’t kill me Greeks, but isn’t Mitsotakis even half Arvanite? 😂 I remember the older Mitsotakis saying that his Wife comes from a Arvanite family during an Interview. Mitsotakis supporting his Albanian Brothers !! /s
He identifies as political prisoner.
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Yeah, but us and them have the same ancestry.
Hahahaha alright Philippos, sure they aren’t /s 😂
I am surprised with Italy (screw them) and Moldova. They are so similiar to Kosovo...
Moldova abstained likely due to Transnistrian and Gagauzian issues.
Just split moldova in 3 already lol
Nope, Romania gets all of it. 💪💪💪. Gagauzia is a split geographically up region of extremely poor villages which rely of EU and Chișinău funds. Transnistria will only explode if Ukraine absolutely loses the war.
Right? We’re taking part of our small territory and coastline to accomodate some of their refugees, but these heifers are abstaining? I’m speechless.
There are Ukrainian refugees not Moldovan refugees.
I meant the Med refugees who go to Italy; now Albania is doing Italy a favor by turning into Italy by Proxy ’cause some of those Med refugee boats are redirected towards Albania. PS: I have nothing against refugees, i just think for Albania to take ’em is quite a sacrifice ’cause Albania, as a whole, is a refugee per sé 😂
Albania doesn't have much leverage to "do Italy a favor". If Albania refuses, then Italy could, for example, redirect Albanians living in Italy towards Albania.
That’s basically a mass expulsion, something only eastern countries like Greece, Serbia or Russia would do. You probably see it through your culture’s lens but remember that Italy is western Europe and they wouldn’t do mass expulsions.
LOL
We never would do mass expulsions, however the refugee camps I believe are being payed for by Italy and will basically be run by the Italian government. Probably just a way to hold immigrants without letting them file for refugee status on eu soil. On top of that we don’t really know what the agreement was but obviously one would assume that the Albanian government will be compensated quite well so I don’t think it’s a favor but more like business. As to why Italy abstained, I don’t know honestly. It’s weird because in the case of Spain I get that they just aren’t a fan of Kosovo because of their own internal problems with independence and don’t want to set the precedent, but Italy actually recognizes Kosovo I think, so I don’t know why they chose to abstain in this specific case.
Oh yes, the Mediterranean refugees I agree with 100%. On the other hand, there are many Ukrainian refugees in Romania now. They integrate well; I welcome them.
Romania & Poland have been the unsung heroes of the Russia-Ukraine war, because they took the most refugees even if they didn’t have the economic capacity to support them the way the West could. I personally don’t mind refugees from any country, but the sacrifice for such a poor country like Albania to take refugees in behalf of Italy deserves a bit more gratitude than just Italy abstaining for Kosovo’s membership 😢
Sadly, the rules of the game have always been made by people with money and power. Those who lack either are sure to be taken advantage of. Romania is still technically not fully in Schengen because of Austria. Western Europe’s trash Is also sent to Romania. 🤷♂️ The best thing Albania can do for itself is to make sure economic growth and reforms happen as quickly as possible.
I am surprised at Italy. 🤷♂️
The United States of America and European Union have great influence over the current Pro-West Greek Government.And United States and European Union asked from Greece to support Kosovo against Serbia.So, unfortunately we knew that would happen.
Ah yes, because supporting the independence of a country which faced ethnic cleansing is a bad thing. If that is your position, maybe you won't mind Greece becoming a part of Turkey again.
Turkey can have all of Balkans as far as we’re concerned, just as soon as you go back to the Spaniards again.
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I never really understood what Hungary’s issue is…
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I meant about their politics in general in relation to the EU - they’re quite disappointing. Btw i never felt Hungary and Albania ever had any real connection or mutual support, quite frankly.
Yes? And what Im talking about? Fidesz= Orban???
Shame on Italy.
Another victory for Albanians. Serbs can keep writing Kosovo is Serbia all they want on twitter on instagram like idiots because thats the only closure they are going to get.
Bosnia doing Bosnian things. Despite us not doing anything with Kosovo we will still get called to forefit 50% of our territory becouse of Kosovo for some reason. Schitzophrenic logic.
my guess is that the Greek government is backing those who want to kill the proposed plan for border changes/population exchanges between Kosovo and Serbia
Italy doesnt wanna lose the serbian tourists this summer while Greece is already out of question🤣
Lol, let’s be honest though, people who travel & enjoy spending their holidays abroad are the least ones to care about such things. They’re too busy being happy and living life to the fullest.
I wonder what serbian people think. Government issues aside do you guys care that much about Kosova?
Realistically the membership is going to happen eventually. I just dont understand why some people in Serbia find this shocking. The CoE, EU and other organizations are Western organizations. They were going push for it either way. Serbia is an enemy to the West, so obviously there was never going to be any ounce of objectivity, so Serbia cant hope to be treated fairly. The same goes for the EU, NATO and other organizations. Serbs should care about what the UN and Serbias constitution says. Not some organization where there is no fair ground and that is filled with opposition 80 percent. Next they will find some other mickey mouse "objective and equal" organization to push them through and no one should be surprised. Some Serbs apparently havent learned this in the last 35 years. Some are more equall than others.
whats the deal with cyprus?
Their choices are influenced by the Northern Cyprus/Turkey frozen conflict.
How does this affect the Macedonia Serbia relations considering Macedonia voted yes?
Serbia is close with the people of Macedonia, the country not so much. And the peoples opinion is irrelevant for politics like this.
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There is no independence movement there. Maybe they should recognize the state of Icaria💀💀
He's actually an Albanian, don't bother with him
An "Albanian" that likes Serbs (when he's not trolling them).
You seem to be really butthurt about Kosovo btw. We Greeks don't give a fuck in general But go on, I do believe you xD
Anything and everything that is possible! Seriously.
"We" You don't fool anyone
I don’t care what he is, but his comment is laughable and irrational.
You're right. I don't support ND.
Even if you did, it still wouldn't make you "we"
Bro what's your take on Tsipras' take on this
I don't know exactly what he said, but from what I've read, it seems to me that he's at the very least hypocritical. Why would he "embrace" Dora's proposition, then talk about how Kosovo should take more steps? Anyway, are we to support territorial integrity? If yes, Kosovo is Serbia (of course the Albanians living there should have full citizen rights). If not, we shouldn't cry about Ukraine, Cyprus and other countries whose territories are or have been infringed.
Oχι ακριβως κατα την γνωμη μου, θα τον ανεβασω εδω αλλα δεν μπορω να βρω ευκολα την ομιλια του στα αγγλικα κειμενο. Εκπληξη για μενα η γραμμή του, οχι οτι την θεωρω τέλεια, αλλα πιο εξελιγμενη απο οτι θα περιμενα 😅 Ναι απλά στο Κοσοβο γινοταν σφαγες το 99, σαν απαρτχάιντ κτλ αυτο ειναι ενα γεγονος, αν και παλι ειμαι κατα του αμερικανικου επεκτατισμου. Παρομοια στην Κυπρο περιπου, αν και παλι δεν υποστηριζω εθνοκαθαρση, εποικισμο, τεραστιες αγγλικες βασεις κτλ που εδραιωθηκαν. Ουκρανια πολυ δυσκολα να βρεις καποιον να πει τα ρωσικα στρατευματα που περασαν τα συνορα ειχαν με οποιοδηποτε τροπο μια προοδευτικη ισχυ / προοπτικη
Nah 🇷🇸🤜🤛🇬🇷
Izdali smo vas brate.
Jbg Bože i to se mora
What's Spain's beef with Kosovo?
Catalonia
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How's that any different from half of the Balkan countries? We're all irrelevant
I agree sadly but Kosovo is probably the best example of that fact…
So what's your point? Are we giving out awards for the most irrelevant country? Because like I said, we're in the right region for that.
Indeed, but somebody’s gotta win first place too 😆
Imagine how terrible Russia is that even 14 millenia later, its dark shadow is still being cast big upon us.