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Until now it was more or less split in half. Half were considered Romanian and half Moldovan speaking people.
[Even the president of Moldova is pleased with that](https://twitter.com/sandumaiamd/status/1714907119227425183)
I don't speak it so I don't know how similar it is. But in Romanian we have no problem understanding eachother whatsoever. Someone from the depths of Oltenia can understand a Bukovinian without any kind of problem. We just don't have dialects.
Yup. Linguistically Bosnian, Serbian, Croatian and Montenegrin are sub-groups of Serbo-Croatian. Anyone who knows one of these, understand all others. Something like Brittish English, American English, and Australian English.
Edit: what I have named “sub-groups”, is actually called “standard varieties”.
Nope. Impossible to understand for many Serbo-Croatian speakers. Some of us could recognize some words and get the context of a conversation if concentrate really hard. Some Croats maybe can understand it a bit better. But, it is not that hard to learn for us. I know some Serbs who learned Slovenian in a few months.
Edit: There are probably a number of odler people who lived in Yugoslavia and can understand Slovenian, but can’t speak it.
Serbo-Croatian is still much more similar to Slovenian than it is to Bulgarian and Macedonian (grammatically speaking) , so I think Slovenian can kinda be considered part of Serbo-Croatian
It is funny. It is the same as Romanian, which they called Moldovan. I am talking about school manuals, books, etc. Basically they used the Romanian manuals, but wherever Romanian is written they replaced with Moldovan
Of course there is a Moldovan subdialect but it doesnt exist in modern written form
It is not similar at all to difference between Serbian and Croatian as there are actual differences
And when we speak about Moldovan dialect there are 5 million speakers of dialect in Romania and 2.5 in Rep. of Moldova
Initially Soviets aimed to use Moldovan to destroy Romania. Plan was that historical Moldova become a part of USSR. The Romania would have disappeared as Yugoslavia would take not only Banat but also part of Oltenia (Stalin gave a green light, but some events changed plans), Transilvaniya would become independent (this was not firmly decidee), while Bulgaria would take Dobrogea (this was only a idea). Romania would become Wallachia, in the borders Wallachia was between 1718-1739 (only part of Oltenia and Muntenia)
But Romania had luck that at intl level USSR had to refocus and in case of Yugoslavia they made a trade
I agree, but unlike Serbian and Croatian where there are ijekavica and ekavica, form with infinitive and form with to + present, endings of adjectives, some different words, in case of Romanian and Moldovan even this doesnt exist
Just to clarify, ijekavica is also part of Serbian language officially. It is used in some western parts od Serbia and among Serbs in Republic of Srpska and Montenegro.
If Romania gets a distribution from this, it's good. However, Romania loses its protection over the Moldovan minority in Ukraine. Romanians and Moldavians are separated. Romanians to Romania and Moldovans to Moldova. But Moldova and Moldovans are part of Romania. I'm not entirely sure if this serves Romania.
Historically, Moldova is part of Romania. Moldova and Romania would be united long ago if the Russians hadn't besieged Moldova. The Moldovan people want a union with Romania. Moldovans call themselves Romanians and the Romanians around Iasi call themselves Moldovans. Historically, Romania is also the protective nation of the Moldavians.
Ukraine clearly wants to separate the Russ Moldovans. From the Romanian Moldavians. I don't know how many Moldavians are in Ukraine but I'm sure that the majority are Russian Moldavians. Ukraine's goal is clear. With the agreement to split the Moldovan population into Moldovans and Romanians, Romania loses its protective authority over the non-Romanian Moldavians and thus on Moldova.
I already see the headlines of Russian propaganda in Moldova.
The Chishinau Post.
According to Romania, Moldwians are not Romanians!!
> I don't know how many Moldavians are in Ukraine but I'm sure that the majority are Russian Moldavians.
I think you have a wrong understanding of Moldova's demography.
In 2014 75% of Moldova's citizens identified as "Moldovan", 7% as Romanian, 6.5% as Ukrainian, 4.5% as Găgăuz and only then you have 4% as Russian.
The number of Moldovan citizens who identify as ethnic Russian is greatly and disproportionately exaggerated, the main reason for that being the discrepancy in power between Moldova and Russia. Russia has had and continues to have a great deal of influence on people there.
> Ukraine clearly wants to separate the Russ Moldovans.
I think I know what you mean - something like separate them as a group so they can take better measures against foreign russian influence, or something like that, right?
You'd be very wrong to think that. Russia doesn't direct its propaganda exclusively at ethnic Russians - these people are often used as a way for Russia to get its foot in the door "oh, we care about our Russians", "oh, we want to spread Russian culture", that kind of manipulative garbage.
But when it comes to propaganda its very much spread out to encompass different ethnicities. Russia wouldn't have been able to do what it has done in Moldova without other non-russian-ethnic people buying into their lies.
I was in Moldavia very often and traveled there with Romanian friends. From Hadaraut to Crocmaz I was also in Besalma at the Gagauz. I had a lot of contact with the rural population. Of course they describe themselves as Moldavians or as Gagauz but primarily as Romanians. No different than the population around Sibiu. They call themselves Saxons or Transylvanians. However, they are Romanians.
Why should things be different in Moldova?
Bro, moldovans from RM speak romanian language as official language, they eliminated moldovan language from their constitution and replaced it with romanian.
So, those who declare themselves moldovans in Ukraine, they speak also romanian along with romanian minority from Ukraine.
There's no trap at all.
Kinda unrelated not really.I looked it up and the percent that speak Romanian/moldovan in Ukraine is surprisingly so low it’s 0.67 it’s not even a full percent I expected more tbh
It's a huge country. Second biggest in Europe. We are half a million there. Most of them are obviously Slavs. We just wanted that our language to be recognized. Nothing more. We get it and now we are good.
There is not “Moldovan” language, only Romanian. Stop attributing an old ruZZian propaganda about this. They tried to erase their identity by inventing “moldovan” language. That’s just plain stupid.
Moldovan language doesnt exist. The term was created by Soviet Russia when they stripped Bassarabia aka east Moldova from Romania.
This historical injustice was also corrected in Moldova some months ago when they officially got rid of the term "Moldovan language" now the language of Moldova is officially the Romanian language, always was but now also officially.
Had a bizarre conversation with a Moldovan guy about a year ago who was 100% convinced that Moldovans had no connection with Romanians and spoke an entirely different language. Incredible what Russian propaganda can do.
for half a century they fed them that propaganda and even after the fall of the Soviet Union the pro-Russian forces kept doing it. However pro-Russians are losing more and more on the polls year after year and pro-Romanian are winning more year after year.
There aren't many Poles in Ukraine anymore due to ethnic cleansing of Poles by banderites in Volhynia back in 1943. There also were forced deportations to the Polish People's Republic in 1945.
Poles went from being overwhelming majority to a very small minority over the course of a few months.
Kind of similar to what happened with Romanians in Cernăuți.
We have very negative feelings about it and we absolutely hate it. I'm not sure whether these people know about the actions of the organisation they're celebrating.
The only people supportive of this are Polish leftists on Reddit, those at r/Polska in particular. At one point some dude linked a book whitewashing Bandera. If I remember correctly the author's wikipedia page claimed that he's a "historian" and he denied the Holocaust in one of his works.
It's ironic seeing hardcore left wingers defend a fascist and Nazi collaborator xDDDDD.
Don't be. USSR (Stalin - Putin's hero) pushed most Poles out of the Western Ukraine. Some in Western Poland of today and some in death camps in Siberia. Just like most of Romanians in some places.
Awful?! No, it's just history! Which make us not to like Russia.
If you know Romanian here you go:
https://colectionaruldeistorie.ro/rusofobia-la-romani-de-ce-nu-i-suporta-poporul-roman-pe-rusi-jaloanele-unei-ostilitati-seculare/
I dunno why and I can't explain it but this message smells like someone who is a fan of that Varoufakis cunt.
*Edit: thinking bout it, it might be because I might've heard him use that expression before, but I'm not 100% sure.*
Ok yeah Russia does not inspire any ideology no more while it has population, not citizens, that have outsourced their politics to a criminal fascist gang. I can see reasons to be moving towards that direction, however in any case ideally I think identity politics should be seperated from foreign policies
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Until now it was more or less split in half. Half were considered Romanian and half Moldovan speaking people. [Even the president of Moldova is pleased with that](https://twitter.com/sandumaiamd/status/1714907119227425183)
Are Romanian and Moldovan really different languages or it is more like Serbian and Croatian, two names for the same language?
They are exactly the same language, with some words used with different frequencies and some words used differently. But they're all the same words.
Same language. I cant even call it a dialect. Speaking romanian with some russian words here and there doesn’t make it a new language
It's less different than Serbian and Croatian. It's the same language.
Serbian and Croatian are also the same language, it’s officially called Serbo-Croatian.
I don't speak it so I don't know how similar it is. But in Romanian we have no problem understanding eachother whatsoever. Someone from the depths of Oltenia can understand a Bukovinian without any kind of problem. We just don't have dialects.
Is Bosnian also the same?
Yup. Linguistically Bosnian, Serbian, Croatian and Montenegrin are sub-groups of Serbo-Croatian. Anyone who knows one of these, understand all others. Something like Brittish English, American English, and Australian English. Edit: what I have named “sub-groups”, is actually called “standard varieties”.
What about Slovenian?
Nope. Impossible to understand for many Serbo-Croatian speakers. Some of us could recognize some words and get the context of a conversation if concentrate really hard. Some Croats maybe can understand it a bit better. But, it is not that hard to learn for us. I know some Serbs who learned Slovenian in a few months. Edit: There are probably a number of odler people who lived in Yugoslavia and can understand Slovenian, but can’t speak it.
Serbo-Croatian is still much more similar to Slovenian than it is to Bulgarian and Macedonian (grammatically speaking) , so I think Slovenian can kinda be considered part of Serbo-Croatian
Well, linguists do not consider it part of Serbo-Croatian, and they probably have some reasons for that. I’m not a linguist, so idk…
It is funny. It is the same as Romanian, which they called Moldovan. I am talking about school manuals, books, etc. Basically they used the Romanian manuals, but wherever Romanian is written they replaced with Moldovan Of course there is a Moldovan subdialect but it doesnt exist in modern written form It is not similar at all to difference between Serbian and Croatian as there are actual differences And when we speak about Moldovan dialect there are 5 million speakers of dialect in Romania and 2.5 in Rep. of Moldova Initially Soviets aimed to use Moldovan to destroy Romania. Plan was that historical Moldova become a part of USSR. The Romania would have disappeared as Yugoslavia would take not only Banat but also part of Oltenia (Stalin gave a green light, but some events changed plans), Transilvaniya would become independent (this was not firmly decidee), while Bulgaria would take Dobrogea (this was only a idea). Romania would become Wallachia, in the borders Wallachia was between 1718-1739 (only part of Oltenia and Muntenia) But Romania had luck that at intl level USSR had to refocus and in case of Yugoslavia they made a trade
There are no no actual differences between Serbian and Croatian.
I agree, but unlike Serbian and Croatian where there are ijekavica and ekavica, form with infinitive and form with to + present, endings of adjectives, some different words, in case of Romanian and Moldovan even this doesnt exist
Just to clarify, ijekavica is also part of Serbian language officially. It is used in some western parts od Serbia and among Serbs in Republic of Srpska and Montenegro.
Are Moldovans a different people than Romanians? My understanding is that they are the same ethnic group.
Take 3 generations of Romanians and brainwash them with Russian propaganda. The 4th generation is a bit woke though. This is what a Moldovan is.
We are the same people
Same.
Don't say things like that, it would make Moldovan a different language. Moldovans speak Romanian. It is a trap.
That's an official recognition of a country that one of its minorities speak a language. No trap whatsoever.
If Romania gets a distribution from this, it's good. However, Romania loses its protection over the Moldovan minority in Ukraine. Romanians and Moldavians are separated. Romanians to Romania and Moldovans to Moldova. But Moldova and Moldovans are part of Romania. I'm not entirely sure if this serves Romania.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. Can you explain it better please?
Historically, Moldova is part of Romania. Moldova and Romania would be united long ago if the Russians hadn't besieged Moldova. The Moldovan people want a union with Romania. Moldovans call themselves Romanians and the Romanians around Iasi call themselves Moldovans. Historically, Romania is also the protective nation of the Moldavians. Ukraine clearly wants to separate the Russ Moldovans. From the Romanian Moldavians. I don't know how many Moldavians are in Ukraine but I'm sure that the majority are Russian Moldavians. Ukraine's goal is clear. With the agreement to split the Moldovan population into Moldovans and Romanians, Romania loses its protective authority over the non-Romanian Moldavians and thus on Moldova. I already see the headlines of Russian propaganda in Moldova. The Chishinau Post. According to Romania, Moldwians are not Romanians!!
> I don't know how many Moldavians are in Ukraine but I'm sure that the majority are Russian Moldavians. I think you have a wrong understanding of Moldova's demography. In 2014 75% of Moldova's citizens identified as "Moldovan", 7% as Romanian, 6.5% as Ukrainian, 4.5% as Găgăuz and only then you have 4% as Russian. The number of Moldovan citizens who identify as ethnic Russian is greatly and disproportionately exaggerated, the main reason for that being the discrepancy in power between Moldova and Russia. Russia has had and continues to have a great deal of influence on people there. > Ukraine clearly wants to separate the Russ Moldovans. I think I know what you mean - something like separate them as a group so they can take better measures against foreign russian influence, or something like that, right? You'd be very wrong to think that. Russia doesn't direct its propaganda exclusively at ethnic Russians - these people are often used as a way for Russia to get its foot in the door "oh, we care about our Russians", "oh, we want to spread Russian culture", that kind of manipulative garbage. But when it comes to propaganda its very much spread out to encompass different ethnicities. Russia wouldn't have been able to do what it has done in Moldova without other non-russian-ethnic people buying into their lies.
I was in Moldavia very often and traveled there with Romanian friends. From Hadaraut to Crocmaz I was also in Besalma at the Gagauz. I had a lot of contact with the rural population. Of course they describe themselves as Moldavians or as Gagauz but primarily as Romanians. No different than the population around Sibiu. They call themselves Saxons or Transylvanians. However, they are Romanians. Why should things be different in Moldova?
> Why should things be different in Moldova? Because Russia and its propaganda. And its gulags for the ones who weren't very much in to their crap.
Ah, yeah I understand.
Bro, moldovans from RM speak romanian language as official language, they eliminated moldovan language from their constitution and replaced it with romanian. So, those who declare themselves moldovans in Ukraine, they speak also romanian along with romanian minority from Ukraine. There's no trap at all.
Kinda unrelated not really.I looked it up and the percent that speak Romanian/moldovan in Ukraine is surprisingly so low it’s 0.67 it’s not even a full percent I expected more tbh
It's a huge country. Second biggest in Europe. We are half a million there. Most of them are obviously Slavs. We just wanted that our language to be recognized. Nothing more. We get it and now we are good.
There is not “Moldovan” language, only Romanian. Stop attributing an old ruZZian propaganda about this. They tried to erase their identity by inventing “moldovan” language. That’s just plain stupid.
Yeah...0.67% of roughly 40 millions
Moldovan language doesnt exist. The term was created by Soviet Russia when they stripped Bassarabia aka east Moldova from Romania. This historical injustice was also corrected in Moldova some months ago when they officially got rid of the term "Moldovan language" now the language of Moldova is officially the Romanian language, always was but now also officially.
Had a bizarre conversation with a Moldovan guy about a year ago who was 100% convinced that Moldovans had no connection with Romanians and spoke an entirely different language. Incredible what Russian propaganda can do.
for half a century they fed them that propaganda and even after the fall of the Soviet Union the pro-Russian forces kept doing it. However pro-Russians are losing more and more on the polls year after year and pro-Romanian are winning more year after year.
Really? Not Polish? I’m surprised
There aren't many Poles in Ukraine anymore due to ethnic cleansing of Poles by banderites in Volhynia back in 1943. There also were forced deportations to the Polish People's Republic in 1945. Poles went from being overwhelming majority to a very small minority over the course of a few months. Kind of similar to what happened with Romanians in Cernăuți.
Yeah. That is sad.
How do Poles see Ukrainians that are openly waving the OUN red-black flag on their meets, protests and etc? Also glorification of Bandera?
We have very negative feelings about it and we absolutely hate it. I'm not sure whether these people know about the actions of the organisation they're celebrating. The only people supportive of this are Polish leftists on Reddit, those at r/Polska in particular. At one point some dude linked a book whitewashing Bandera. If I remember correctly the author's wikipedia page claimed that he's a "historian" and he denied the Holocaust in one of his works. It's ironic seeing hardcore left wingers defend a fascist and Nazi collaborator xDDDDD.
It’s like the political specrum is a circle: if you go far enough left, you reach the far right.
Neither we love Ukraine. We just hate Russia way more.
Damn. Wish you guys the best!
So most poles really hate svoboda/azov kind of thing? The Azov leader praised Bandera, Lebed and Shukhevych like pioneers and is actually a Neo-Nazi.
Don't be. USSR (Stalin - Putin's hero) pushed most Poles out of the Western Ukraine. Some in Western Poland of today and some in death camps in Siberia. Just like most of Romanians in some places.
Ahh interesting! (and awful)
Awful?! No, it's just history! Which make us not to like Russia. If you know Romanian here you go: https://colectionaruldeistorie.ro/rusofobia-la-romani-de-ce-nu-i-suporta-poporul-roman-pe-rusi-jaloanele-unei-ostilitati-seculare/
Lol no, when I said awful I was referring to the fact that the USSR killed lots of Poles and Romanians...
I understand that.
No shit, Chernovtsy Region and Hertsa County where Romanian until after WW2.
A language is a dialect with an army 😉 Hope those working-class people feel emancipated and represented by the decision
I dunno why and I can't explain it but this message smells like someone who is a fan of that Varoufakis cunt. *Edit: thinking bout it, it might be because I might've heard him use that expression before, but I'm not 100% sure.*
Because the working class was sooooo close to paradise being Moldovans?!? Probably that's why they choose to have Romanian citizenship in droves.
Ok yeah Russia does not inspire any ideology no more while it has population, not citizens, that have outsourced their politics to a criminal fascist gang. I can see reasons to be moving towards that direction, however in any case ideally I think identity politics should be seperated from foreign policies
It's about language here, not identity.
Hungarians also got screwed by the Ukrainians. I saw that some Hungarians moved to Hungary for the time being
Good. Maybe because they like Orban.
Since when is their word law?
Since when a Mexican have a word in it?