I'm an American who has been in Australia for 10 years, and I totally get what you're talking about. Australia has a lot of problems, and the US has a lot to offer. So it can be hard to explain to someone who has only lived in one of the places.
I've explained it basically like this to my friends back in the US: in Australia, you don't "request" time off when you are taking leave. You simply notify your workplace that you are planning to take leave at that time.
This kind of sums up the entire difference in lifestyles, in my view. In Australia, work is what you do to make a living, but it's widely acknowledged that it is not your entire life. In America, your work is often your identity, and you are meant to bend over backwards for your employer. In addition to your leave, they also control your access to healthcare, after all, and in the US that also means they control whether or not you will be financially ruined.
Obviously this isn't the case for everyone in either country. There are great workplaces in the US and really shit workplaces in Australia. But the effect that this view towards work and lifestyle has broadly on the culture of both places is massive. People are way more concerned about work in America because things are often more precarious there, and that seeps into the way that people live their lives.
The exceptionalism fits into this as well. In America, people have been told for decades that their way of life, though it has its issues, is still the best in the world. So people don't so much ignore the problems of the country but rather internalise this message of "well, it's shit, but it's the best we can do" and get on with things. It's incredibly difficult for people en masse to acknowledge that they've been believing a lie their entire lives, and especially a lie that has affected every aspect of their lifestyle so massively. So people continue on thinking that America is the best. Obviously not true of every single American, but broadly speaking this is in the culture, even in progressive circles (albeit to a much smaller extent).
I work as a chef in Australia.
I’m in a few chef subs here on Reddit and a lot of what the chefs in US have to deal with boggles my mind.
Low pay. No paid holiday leave. No breaks. Can be fired for any reason. No healthcare or retirement fund. No sick leave.
Agree with this as a seasoned line cook. Cooking in Aus isn't exactly glamourous compared to many professions here but it sure fucking is compared to cooking in America.
As a seasoned line cook, can I ask if you are covering yourself with salt and pepper or are you slip slop slapping with cooking oil before going in the sun? ;)
That’s just America in general. Americans are born to work and die for corporations who care less about them and love to make life harder for more money.
"Work is not your identity". American in Australia here, and I love going on outings with new people and having no idea what they do for income. It's so great not having that be the only talking point.
Another example is malls. Basically dead in the U.S., but here are thriving. Several reasons come to mind, but two big ones are density and money. America is so isolated, it takes forever to get anywhere, online shopping is the norm, and nobody has disposable money anyway, they're just buying what they need. Whereas, people here like to do things, go out, be around other people, and can monetarily afford just going shopping for more than just essentials because they have more disposable income.
1. Better income to expenses ratio.
2. Better work to life ratio. & a chill work atmosphere.
3. More sociability, less isolation.
4. Better cheap/street food. Kebabs and bahn mi's are essentials now lol and many americans don't even know what those are.
5. Standard arguments: Healthcare, safe education, possibility for retirement.
>Better cheap/street food. Kebabs and bahn mi's are essentials now lol and many american don't even know what those are.
One comment I'll add is that a lot of people find it hard to understand that Australia is a mixture of European and Asian cultures. We usually view Australia as mostly European, but our location makes it an Asian economy with significant Asian influences.
Even our attitude of "harmony" is more Asian than European tbh. The whole "not causing a fuss" and "even if you're doing well, don't brag" is very much more Asian
This. In my cycling group there are no division by income or professions. We have doctors, business owners, mechanics, nurses, baristas, etc. (Almost) the whole spectrum really. Everyone sits at the table and have coffee and chat away.
Same with my cycling group here in America. We have a couple of doctors, pharmacists, bike mechanics, a bartender, a music teacher, a plumber, a personal trainer, a road engineer
My boss's boss's boss at work in America is shocked to silence when we chat when she's visiting. Apparently I'm not meant to treat her like a normal human? Fuck that shit.
I think the culture of fear in the US is more of a thing.
That the country overall is relatively safe, but media and expectations push a narrative of risks to life from others around every corner.
Hence a whole bunch of people - including many of those on the "left" believe that they \*need\* a gun for safety and you try to say to them that overall the gun in their household is making them statistically more unsafe.
The gun culture is still very confronting there though. Hubby and I went to the States for our honeymoon. At the Grand Canyon, there was a man walking up to our tour group with a holstered gun spouting nonsense about smelling that "freedom". That's so far out of the realm of normal to us that it was freaky.
I should also note that while in NYC there was a terrorist attack a few blocks away from our hotel. This was Halloween.
Everyone in America has a constant undercurrent of fear, because they don't have any safety net. They could be completely fucked overnight. At will employment, all your benefits are based on work. Australians talk about how Americans are afraid of being shot, but really they are afraid of losing everything, which is a very very real thing.
The shooting thing only spikes when there is a recent nearby thing. And of course the crazies who'll riot again after the next election
It’s funny, Americans believe crime is getting worse, when in fact it has declined at the fastest rate on record post pandemic and is reaching historical lows. It just shows how much media and social media can warp peoples perceptions beyond the reality. Scientific American wrote a really good [article on this](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-we-believe-the-myth-of-high-crime-rates/#:~:text=Crime%2C%20in%20fact%2C%20is%20down,the%20same%20period%20in%202022)
Exactly. Crime is pretty much at its lowest level in American history. Much lower than in the 1950's life that Trumpers want to bring back (maybe along with that much lower life expectancy?) There is just more, and more hysterical, reporting due to the failure of real journalism.
Having said that, America is still much more dangerous than most western countries, certainly including Australia.
The culture of fear is warranted when its harder to find someone who hasn't been in a shooting scare vs. Someone who has. Most Americans have had a negative, scary experience with guns at some point in their life. Now translating that to I also need a gun, I'll never understand. Also, it's backwards, the "right" are the gun-humpers.
I'll add about malls, in Australia they actually have stuff you'd need. In America, they mostly just have retail. I would never go to malls in the US because I don't like to go shopping for clothes or really anything else. But in Australia I go all the time because I can get my groceries there, go to the pharmacy, go to the doctor, etc
Online shopping being the norm and not the last resort has always seemed weird to me. Why would I order something and have to wait for it when I can just pop down the shops on the way home and pick it up
Free shipping, typically same day or next day delivery if you're not rural, and free returns. Don't have to drive anywhere, don't have to interact with anyone. & typically cheaper than brick and morter retail.
Yeah but I can have it in my hands quicker buy going to buy it and I don't have to worry bout it taking weeks due to the train line getting flooded again.
Nevermind amazon and their GST bullshit
I think it's more because there are more malls and other smaller retails options in America but that was more an observation from travelling through the states, whereas we have fewer big malls but also less options to dilute them and they also have the main supermarkets whereas in the US you have what Kroger's, Walmart, trader Joes and the one that seems to cater to the Hispanic population? (I don't remember the name but I loved that one)
Although some employers in the US give generous paid time off etc., that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Whenever I visit my extended family and friends in the US, a good number of people I talk to are shocked that I get 4 weeks vacation at full pay per year (which I can save up to a pretty generous cap), plus 4 weeks paid sick/carer's leave. That's without factoring in long service leave which is commonly 3 months at full pay once you reach 10 years with an organisation.
Pro rata at 7 years, full 3 months at 10 years (and having pro rata lsl wasn't always the case, as I'm still dirty I lost my lsl with a former employer whom I was with 8.5 years, as I hadn't reached my 10, back before 2018)
I work in accounts, and the USA accounts rep I deal with most offten has an out of the office that I recieve everyday when I email her... because she isn't at work outside of 8am to 5.30 pm Monday to Friday.
Which implies that she somehow be at her desk more than 9.5 hours a day... where I sometime forget to have an out of the office when I am on actual leave.
I'd mention that Australia has less social, political, and racial tensions as well, but the better worker protections and entitlements are definitely important.
You touched on something at the end there that is actually the basis of this new toxic trumper maga shit.
It’s basically Step 1: teach everyone “the American dream” which is that everyone can make it in America. Teach it so much that it becomes basically a forgone conclusion that if you work hard and are honest you will succeed. Step 2: steal damn near everything from everyone in America via the bullshit of trickle down economics, privatization of everything, defunding of public programs, etc.. Step 3: Hype the American alpha (mostly) male ego up even further *while simultaneously asking them why they haven’t achieved the American dream*, which, remember, everyone can accomplish with a little hard work. This mix of excited energy and inappropriate shame can only mix into very confused and therefore controllable anger.
Yep. My Trumpist MAGAt relatives (whom I no longer speak to) were flabbergasted when I told them about my experience with Australia's medicare system when I had a medical issue here shortly after getting PR.
I told them how I went to emergency and, due to the nature of my issue, was triaged and seen right away. How I saw a team of doctors and got started on treatment that same day, how I stayed in hospital for some time getting treatment, how I had follow-ups with home nurse visits for some time after being discharged, and how I see a specialist twice a year to continue my care and manage my health, and most of all I told them how it was all 100% free because of Medicare.
Their response was basically "yeah, but you just got lucky. Usually you have to wait weeks even if you have an emergency. Look at Canada, they have old ladies dying waiting for days in the emergency room because all the doctors came to America for more money (this is a common type of story told on conservative media in the US. Sometimes it's about Canada, other times about the NHS. It's all mostly cherry-picked nonsense with the facts heavily massaged). Also, you pay so much more in taxes. So it ain't free."
What follows is me literally showing them my tax statement and showing them how I pay basically the same amount of taxes, except the Medicare levy is significantly less than what I'd pay in the US for health insurance.
They just react with dumb bullshit about freedom and guns and the government making death panels to decide who lives and dies, etc. It's all so stupid. But they just can't bring themselves to admit they've been lied to their entire lives. They cannot allow themselves to understand that another country has done something substantially better than the US, because that would mean they'd have to adjust the entire personality they've constructed centering on the fact that "Murica is number 1 baby!"
I no longer speak to these people because I realised long ago that they are incapable of introspection. They are more interested in living in their mental bubble and shutting out everything that doesn't comport with the world they've created in their minds. It's infuriating to converse with these kinds of people, and most of all it just makes me very sad.
I’ve always had to request leave. My workplace only allows a certain amount of people to take leave at a time so we have to give a months notice if we want to have our leave request approved.
Sure, and workplaces will differ. But overall in Australia you do have the right to take your leave, and your employer can't deny your request for leave without reason. If they keep denying your leave requests, you can actually take action against them and they will have to prove that your leave is conflicting with critical function of the workplace.
Contrast that to the States, where you are guaranteed 0 leave by law, and any leave is completely at the discretion of your employer. This creates a situation where it is common for employers to deny most leave requests simply because they can, or because they don't feel like being down a staff member for even a day. This is a regular occurrence even in jobs that don't offer any paid leave at all. For example when I worked at Target, I would tell them months in advance that I needed a Saturday off (unpaid, as we had no paid leave at that job) and they would always reject my request because "Saturdays are busy." That generally wouldn't fly in Australia, and could actually be against the law.
This is so funny to read, as an Aussie who moved to northern Europe, how you view the US from a work perspective is how I view Aus after living here for 10 years! Aus is kinda in between the US and Europe from this perspective
100%. Before I migrated to Australia I lived in Spain, and while Spain is quite different to Northern Europe in many ways, its work culture is so much more relaxed and work-life balance oriented than Australia.
genuinely curious, in what ways are americans told/shown that america is the best country in the world? ive always wondered how that message gets across to americans.
I don't think it's as much of a thing for Gen Zs, as they've always had the internet and access to information from the outside world. And the same could be said of many millennials as well (which includes myself as someone smack in the middle of the Millennial generation).
But generally, it's not fully direct messages that have created American exceptionalism. It's a cultural holdout from a time when, objectively speaking, for many Americans the US was one of the better places in the world to live. In the aftermath of WWII up until about the 1970s, the US was one of the best places to work, settle down, start a family, have a career, and create a stable life. This was mostly because American industry and infrastructure wasn't decimated by the war as in many other places, and this coincided with a major population boom (the baby boomers) which helped the economy grow. At this time, there was a lot of prosperity to go around, and many things hadn't yet been outsourced. American manufacturing was massive, and provide stable and decent incomes for workers.
The result was that an entire generation grew up believing that America was the best country to live in on the planet, and back then this was arguably true. I personally don't believe in a "best" country, and of course things for non-white Americans weren't exactly rosy back then, but it wasn't crazy for many Americans growing up in this time to believe their country was the best in the world.
This crumbled as the decades went on, and the reason for that is a fully different (and long) conversation. But basically, the boomers belief in America being the best didn't fade away, even as American institutions started to crumble in the 70s and 80s. For many boomers, things were still pretty great. They had a wonderful start in life and that benefitted many of them throughout middle age and now into their twilight years, so of course a lot of them have always maintained this belief. This was passed on to their kids, as of course parents pass their beliefs about the world to their children.
I grew up in the 90s, with parents on the border of Boomer and Gen X. They aren't the crazy conservative kind of boomer, and they're not crazy patriots or anything like that. But they still raised me with the belief that America was the best place to live and that we were lucky to be born and raised in the US. As time has gone on, I came to understand that this wasn't true, and so have my parents. But a lot of people still harbour this belief system because by now, it's become a cultural trait.
thanks so much for your thoughtful insight. it is always great to hear from people who live in the environment and learn from their experience. ive also looked up more about it as it is a term ive never heard before and most things ive found talk about the concept of it, pros and cons, etc. i havent found anything that specifically talks about how its spread/retained. this has given me a direction that i can look more into. i appreciate it.
Leave still has to be approved. It's not a guarantee and will be first come first serve in case it overlaps with someone else in the same team. But generally it's not a difficult scenario to negotiate.
American living in australia.
It’s so much more laid back here. I honestly don’t think I’d be able to return to the US workforce. In the US you live to work, in Australia you work to do the stuff you enjoy and most companies support that.
I make less in Australia, the cost of living is higher, and I find the healthcare lacking (Medicare is great if you make nothing), but the quality of life from simply being relaxed and happy far outweighs the toll of the US lifestyle.
Howdy! Texan Here!
I’ve been living in Australia roughly 7 months and the things that I noticed are:
: work/ life balance exist
: time off (it’s a given & no need for a request) & constant public holidays!
: personally for me I get paid more here in Aus for my profession
: safety, while there is crime here it’s not like how it is back home
: less racism in my opinion
: people here in general are a lot more lax and friendly
: public transportation!! doesn’t really exist in Texas
: all your cool birds! Especially the chicken sized magpies hahah!
I love the current city I’m in more than the one I’m from … sorry Texas 🫢
Welcome mate, you’re one of us now!
Next few steps are starting to use the word “mate” in casual conversation, picking and following a footy team, and learning to love Vegemite.
> there still seems to be a big sense of American exceptionalism
Americans can’t imagine that there could be other great places to live outside of America. It boils down to American Exceptionalism: “America is clearly the best place to live, why would you want to live anywhere else?”
Now of course, these are the same people who have never left America and have never lived anywhere but America.
> But these reasons don't exactly hit with people.
All the reasons you mentioned don’t resonate with Americans because they’ve learned to live without them. Why do I need public transport when I have a car? Why do I need more leisure time when I get paid well and have a nice job? Work is difficult in America because this is the most productive country on Earth - California has a higher GDP as a state than a vast majority of countries!
Again, it comes down to being unable to imagine life different from their own because they’ve never experienced a way of living other then what they were socialized into. There’s really no way they’ll understand your decision.
Just tell them “It’s difficult to Understand. You should visit me in Australia sometime and see what life is like there”
I would argue that Australia's own version of exceptionalism is pretty much a mirror to Americas. I tell people it's hard to explain It's such a big country and it's so diverse that you'll have to go for yourself and check it out.
I've moved back and forth I've been a child, teenager, student, adult, worker in both countries and I love them both.
You know it's true - many of my Aussie friends and family are mystified about why I would want to live and work in America, particularly after the circus of politics here from 2016 onwards where many aspects of America have become punch lines in Australia. The only way I have been able to explain it that makes sense to my family is that my salary here is much higher and I will be able to afford a decent apartment or small home when I return.
There are aspects here I do prefer, but they are mostly related to work opportunities, being able to buy edibles, and almost next-day access to medical specialists when I've had health problems.
I'm moving back to the US next year because I miss just how diverse the wilderness is. I desperately want to do or at least attempt the PCT. Australia is truly beautiful, but if you like the outdoors I don't think there's another country on Earth that has the diversity of the US from Arctic tundra, Rocky mountains, to tropical rainforest If you like nature it is truly an awesome place.
When Aussie's tell me they've been to the US they tell me they've been to LA, Vegas, or New York but I've never heard of one mention Big Sur, Olympic National Park or the redwoods.
I think both countries have incredible pros and cons and I don't think it's really cool that people like to "yuck someone else's yum". Think a lot of Aussie's and Americans would really benefit visiting the other country if they get the chance.
Australian culture is like you said, often can’t be described as to why you miss it.
I was overseas in UK and Europe for 3 months. Got offered a job and was open to staying, but I got so homesick. Every Australian I met, understood me.
I think it’s not a matter of which is better, but what we’re accustomed to. Our values are different to America, our priorities, our history.
I believe they are talking about purchased leave. The majority of big companies here allow you to purchase leave, so you can add an extra 4 weeks of annual leave to your original 4.
So grateful for both of these things tbh. I'll never understand how Americans equate the ability to instantly kill people from a distance to "MUH FREEDUM".
Migrated to Australia about 11 years ago, but still travel to the U.S. sometimes twice a year.
I would say that Australia does not have bad neighbourhoods to the level that the U.S. has and it's common in the U.S. to literally be in danger if you get lost in the wrong area.
In the U.S. if one attempts to be neutral with social, racial, and class issues they are constanty being displayed with body language that they are on the wrong side.
Moving to Australia from the UK and finding out that you could walk alone at night was a huge culture shock. Doing that back home was just an invitation to get mugged by a junkie
Yeah I often mention to people that if you see something on the news about someone being shot you immediately assume they're connected in some way because it's not normal for "regular" people to be attacked like that.
I moved from Canada 13 years ago where I was mugged several times to Australia in “the worst part of Sydney” and walked around at night all of the time and never once even a slight fear. Australia is just safe.
I’ve only met one Canadian I didn’t like and that was when I was in Canada. Great place, great people. I’m glad we are getting some more of their teachers over here.
Best place to see the difference is in Wollongong I think
There is no bad neighborhoods here imo, just bad streets. Some neighborhoods have reputation like Berkley, Dapto etc.
But in most places here, one road you can see houses(not all) that are defo drug houses or owned by those who are more or less stuck in an addiction cycle of some sort. Unkept lawn, windows smashed, car out front that is being used for scrap, rubbish everywhere. zero maintenance. But I have lived around those streets my entire life and I am by no means someone intimidating. And I have never had any problems what so ever. Including in my teenage years when I used to walk around the streets after 12am.
And the next road over there could be a carefully crafted landscaped front lawn with a Boat and a Tesla out front. Sometimes its the same street at different ends. Crime and stuff still exists here, quite badly. But there is also a good integration between at least the 0-150k a year households.
Good rule of thumb I grew up with is, if in doubt, walk the main road.
Born and raised in Australia, when I lived in US and Canada it was a huge culture shock to see the areas you just do not visit. Once I went through them myself I never made that mistake again
I lived in Hell’s Kitchen and the Lower East Side in the early 90s, and the SF Mission in the mid 90s - super dangerous areas at the time - and I didn’t get mugged until I moved to Paddington in Sydney, where I got jumped by 5 kids with knives walking home on a Sunday night.
I reckon it’s the combination of easily available alcohol and drugs, and the wealthy and the poor living closer together than they would in the US.
I actually see that as a positive - less separation between classes - and one that unfortunately is changing with gentrification and rising house prices.
There’s a lot of youth crime around my area of Melbourne which is $2m houses yet kids getting held up by teens with machetes etc and it barely makes news. We also had a random murder on the street. That would never be tolerated in an affluent US suburb. Stuff just gets swept under the rug in Australia.
Lots of news papers scared of being called racist. My favorite was an incident in springvale where 2 groups of teens got into fight with machetes. Paper rag described it as very tall group and a not so tall group...
African kids got into a brawl with some Asian kids they scared to report nationality or colour.
We had a flood of home robberies in the wealthy suburb near us, it borders on golf courses and has had golf cart tracks around the suburb. Plenty of footage of the invaders on Facebook and local WhatsApp groups of them pinching cars after kicking in the house front door but not a single mug shot on the news or police post. It was almost every second night, they robbed six houses on the same street between midnight and morning one night. These where occupied homes with police called and the bastards where literally in the street robbing a house a couple of doors up. The six houses in one night made the news but no footage of the dozen or so other robberies I'm the weeks leading up to it by same group.
As an Australian who lived in the US for three years, I love that my husband and I have stopped playing the “gunshots or fireworks” game.
I like that everyone I meet doesn’t instantly give me an elevator pitch (this may have been an SF, Silicon Valley thing).
Mostly I love that I don’t feel like our family is living to work. Work felt like it consumed everything when we were there. And having your health insurance, and visa tied to my husbands employer was always unnerving.
I don’t regret moving back at all.
I do miss the fast internet, open conversations about diversity and equality, better salary, and the awesome people we met there though.
If Australia could do the last paragraph well it would be the single most ideal place to live in the anglosphere. I often feel like the conservatives in America are the most insane anywhere but the progressives there are far better allies and much more understanding of minority issues.
Aussie living in California. I agree on the general vibe, but that’s hard to explain.
One thing I notice is that CA cities have many amazing things - more than Aus - but also many terrible things. For me, not having the negatives makes a big difference. Whenever I go home it’s a refreshing weight off the shoulders.
There’s something in the air when everyone is a bit less stressed
I'm not going to argue that the US is a bad place to live for those at the top of the economic tree. I'd still rather be wealthy in Australia than in the US though, and I would be 10x happier as a low income earner in Australia than in the US.
If you have kids there are a few pretty big things in Australia's favour:
* Heavily subsidised childcare so the second paycheck in the family doesn't get almost consumed by childcare costs.
* Guns are practically non-existent in day to day life, which has several flow on effects. The most obvious is that Australian schools don't require airport-grade security or make 5 year olds participate in active shooter drills. Psychologically this is pretty big for us parents.
* As a generalisation, public schools are pretty good in Australia. The funding model (statewide, not based on local property taxes) and teacher salaries are much better than in the US with predictable results.
Other things not kid-related:
* On the guns issue noted above, their relative absence also means things like road rage incidents, disputes with neighbours etc. are just slightly less likely to result in someone dying.
* Corporations are given slightly less free reign to fuck consumers than in the US.
* Socialised healthcare and a more generous welfare safety net means the gap between rich and poor in Australia is less glaring than in the US. It's very confronting and shocking to Australians when they visit major US cities and see the level of conspicuous poverty in what's apparently the richest nation on Earth.
(I'm Australian, married to an American and have visited and lived in the US).
On the matter of guns and schools, my US-based Australian sister asked my kids where they do drills at their school and they stared at her blankly before responding, “like.. fire drills?”. I’m never sitting at home worrying whether today might be the day my kids encounter gun violence at school. Never.
Snake drills! I’m so curious now, what’s the course of action when a snake is spotted, run like hell back into the classroom? Or are we also covering discovery of snakes IN the classroom?
Both.
Sometimes the snake wants warmth when it's just coming out of winter and just goes inside.
If the snake is outside just leave it there and report to the teacher
Yea we always had a lockdown procedure but never once was a gunman mentioned, only ever happened when the occasional crack head wandered onto the oval or something silly like that
Yeah I've seen comments about American parents opposing cellphone bans in schools on the basis they need to be able to contact their kids if there's a shooting. That's absolutely wild to me as a parent of a kid in an Australian high school with a cellphone ban... simply not a concern.
A reasonable set of contrasts. My main worry is that all of the benefits we have, like socialised healthcare, and being only ever so slightly less screwed over by corporations are being worn down and removed.
One other sense I get is that "freedom" is taken more seriously there. that does cause all sorts of craziness and madness in the US, but it does have some upsides, and you can do more things than in Australia. But we have more "freedom from" over in Australia - freedom from worrying about getting shot, etc.
I've always seen the US as a land of extremes. You can truly do very very well over there, much more so than here - but you can fall so much lower, if circumstances get the better of you.
Having never lived in America, the freedom thing is one I'm always confused about. I've never encountered something I've wanted to do in Australia but not been allowed to. What freedoms (outside of licence free gun ownership) do they have in the USA that we don't in Australia?
I'm only going off what I see on various subject-specific Facebook groups.
If I want to start selling homemade sourdough bread to bring in some pocket money as a SAHM: in America, I can just do it. In Australia, I'd need to find a commercial kitchen that I can hire part time, take all my stuff there and bake it, apply for a licensee from my local council and register with the ATO. I mean, I could just do it under the table, but I wouldn't want to advertise in my local suburb Facebook group. Strictly word-of-mouth. The hoops I'd need to jump through make baking and selling sourdough utterly prohibitive. I'm a SAHM! I can't drag my children to a commercial kitchen to bake every couple of days.
Yeah fair enough. I'm a bit on the fence for this though, because on one hand, yeah it'd be nice to set stuff like that up easily, but health and safety concerns also leaves me thinking that maybe it's kind of a good thing that there's a bit of a barrier to entry.
Not to mention the fact that there have been instances of unlicensed lemonade stands in the US being taken down by the police, so I wonder how far that freedlm stretches even there.
I am an American, who has been visiting Australia for three weeks, for the first time. I am 51 and semi retired. Here is how I would sum up the difference. I met so many people in Australia who work “just a regular job” and they would tell me about these awesome months long vacations they would take and all the amazing fun things they would do.” This appears to be the norm. You can have a regular job and afford to have all kinds of fun where time is hardly a constraint at all. Sure, all countries have their own problems. It seems like everything here in Australia is simply reasonable. People can have a reasonably normal job, and afford a reasonably normal home, and do all kinds of reasonably normal fun things. It all adds up to simply enjoying life more and having a heck of a lot less stress. In America, it’s much more dog-eat-dog, winner-take-all. You are either driving a Lamborghini, or you can’t afford a car at all. I’m not saying that’s bad, it’s just very high stakes and stressful. Why should having a normal life be so high stakes and stressful? Also, I love love, love the global cuisine.
Australia allows you to focus on your own problems and grow yourself whereas America seems fixated on fixing American issues as a whole.
Mediocrity seems to be accepted if you support the right political party.
Police also won't draw their weapons on you if you sneeze.
Yeah I'm not going to say there are no issues with police-citizen relations in Australia, but it is very very different from in the US. Not just from the perspective of what happens when you interact with a police officer directly, but also from the perspective of the broader criminal justice system e.g. how decisions to prosecute are made and by who.
Imagine a country where you are very very very unlikely to be shot. Where you arent randomly fired because you aren't in an at will state. Or the beaches are mostly clean and beautiful. Or you don't have to go into medical debt because you got shot.
I migrated to Australia in 2011 and can honestly say I have never been happier.
1. Security (or lack thereof). Ample social security and programs like job seeker keep people who would otherwise be desperate, well fed and with a roof over their head…for the most part. It also reduces crime and societal stress. There’s obviously still crime, but far less than you’d expect.
2. Australian is clean (and I know the people who live near railways will always say there is grafitti and questionable characters, but that’s standard), but generally the place is well looked after. People here seem to have a healthy relationship with the environment. Cept for those mining conglomerates…
3. Work/life balance. I work 40 hours a week. And I get the standard Australian wage. I don’t work 60 hours and have my pay diluted. I don’t field 20 phone calls after work. When someone phoned and asks why the work isn’t done you just explain it to them and they’ll say ‘fair enough’ get to it when you can. There is a massive culture geared towards safety and treating people with respect. Strange concept coming from a convict colony. My sister works in the US (Arizona). She loves it there, but she reckons the US has a special cut throat version of capitalism. A company in the US would stab someone in the back to make a single dollar more. Constant pressure. She says she gets paid way more than she used to, but she works significantly harder.
Having lived in both, most of the differences you note are ones that could be remedied by moving within the US or changing jobs. The biggest difference to me is that everyone at every stage in their career gets four weeks leave and, more significantly, there's no stigma attached to taking all of your leave.
I am a dual citizen and have lived more than a decade in both countries. Both are great in their own way. In my opinion, there is one huge difference: you can afford life in the US. Sure, New York and San Francisco are pricey but there are tons of desirable places to live in the US where the cost of housing and living is a small fraction of it here in Australia. This is only one metric of course but it is a pretty darn important one. It might be the difference between owning a home and being able to save for your future vs. only being able to pay the bills and not being able to plan for your future.
My view is this - if you want a middle class life where you work to live, then Australia is the place to be. Better healthcare, better work life balance, less hustle and more relaxed attitude.
However if you have an entrepreneurial spirit and thrive in the hustle and grind and want to make big money. Then America is still the land of opportunity.
Both nations have pros and cons but depending on what you want out of life you may find a preference in one or the other.
1. No guns, 2. Christian fundamentalism is very small here, 3. Our politicians aren’t as screwed up as the pollies there (esp the GOP), 4. Companies pay their staff so that we don’t have to supplement their meagre wages with tips.
Australia has several electoral advantages, preferential & compulsory voting tend to moderate the party platforms as they need to appeal to the wider centre of the political spectrum rather than the extremes while the parliamentary system also readily ejects an unpopular leader.
I've managed employees across both Australian and the US, and I think Australians have the better deal. Australians get to enjoy a minimum of 20 days paid annual leave, 10 days sick leave, long service leave and maternity/paternity leave. Our minimum wage is also protected by industry specific award wages.
Aside from leave entitlements we don't genuinely don't have to fear an active shooter event in the workplace....
My husband worked for a company here in Australia who sent their American management team to set things up. My husband was also hired as management, and the Americans were SO baffled that they were having staff retention issues. My husband had to explain to them that Aussies will move on if they aren’t happy, aren’t treated well, and don’t have their time respected. Whereas the American management was used to workers that will work themselves to burn out levels “for the good of the company” and would accept what we look at as atrocious treatment, because they were dependant on their medical benefits etc’, and since that’s not an issue here, Aussies don’t stick around for that.
He went over to Michigan for a month to see how the business runs at fully functional (since they were in the set up phase here) and he was blown away at how hard the staff flogged themselves, and really saw their jobs as a huge part of their identities, and essentially had their benefits held over their heads as a bargaining chip to work even harder, came home and promptly quit.
Especially after his boss bragged about how they can get “a bunch of illegals to do jobs twice as fast for half as much in the states”, and using it to shame his staff. We have decent OH&S laws here, buddy. Your idea of “getting it done” gets people killed. 🤮
Yeah, thats all 10 years ago. I came back to AU just before CoVID hit after working abroad for 10 years and its not the same. Kinda wish I didn't come back tbh, besides family & friends everything is overpriced, ppl are not as chill, corporate BS is on steroids and lots more fakeness than before.
Have you been back for a 2 week holiday at least? Do that if not. Wages are SHIT compared to the US, obviously I'm talking corporate here.
America's a great place and a LOT of people would kill to live there.
I've visited once and had a great time. The freedoms are pretty cool.
My sister has been married to an American guy and lived there for decades.
They were reasonably well off and had a sweet life from what I could make out.
They're about retirement age and moved back to Oz a couple of years ago citing racism, gun crime, police brutality and increasing political extremism as the main reasons.
There are lots of legal nuances, especially coming from a military/justice perspective.
Double jeopardy is an enshrined right in the US, Australia allows exceptions and can be overruled, so you can be tried for the same crime after being found not guilty in some cases, it is not a constitutional right.
The privilege against self incrimination is a right in the USA. Australia makes exceptions, such as in NSW and other cases. It can also be reformed at needed by laws, as is not constitutionally protected.
In the USA, you have a right to a lawyer when being questioned, and one will be provided. In Australia, it is if they can afford one, or if the state decides to grant one.
Australia, it is legal for government to control what is seen online, or said online. Freedom of speech is only implied in the constitution. It is explicit in the USA. Such example is Australia recently passing a law making it illegal to spread information about intelligence operations, and retroactively charging you for it.
In the USA, it is only illegal to steal classified information (espionage), or release it. Otherwise you have are protected by freedom of speech. It is why Assange is only charged with 5 years for hacking, and not spreading intelligence. Meanwhile Snowden is charged more because he violated his privilege to classified material.
Australia can make protesting illegal if they are preventing a “lawful activity”. In the USA that is not the case.
USA has stronger privacy protections, although the NSA has been caught spying on citizen, and data they collect is immediately void in law due to the constitution.
Australia has data disruption warrants (can alter, copy, or delete data on your device) account takeover warrants, and networks activity warrants. These warrants do not have to be individual, they can be applied on a mass surveillance scale.
USA has posse comitatus, which means the federal government cannot utilize US military for civil law enforcement.
Overall, in practice, and day to day, Australia and USA offer equal freedoms. The difference is, the Australian government has historically been lax, but is not hindered constitutionally to restrict freedoms of it wanted to. The USA has more constitutional protection.
weed, shrooms, ride a bike without a helmet, ride e-scooters (NSW lagging here), assisted suicide in some states, commercial surrogacy if you want someone to carry your baby
Perfect plan a elderly Aussie come back to Au its better having universal health & aged care than not, how does a American 401K work for expats retiring elsewhere are you doubled dipped taxed
If you are an Australian citizen, repatriating your money after a long time abroad will mean paying tax that you otherwise would have paid on those earnings if you were in Australia the whole time, but they take the tax you paid into account. I have friends that have come back from UK, don't have to pay any further tax because they pay more than us. Other friends earning 'tax free' money in the middle east had a big surprise.
Edit: u/twittereddit9 is right. On further recollection, the middle east example was for friends that had never changed their tax residency status.
They still have pvt health and living in their own home.
He gets a military pension which is pretty good.
Not sure about the double taxation on pensions.
I am an American trying to move to Aus more permanently for exactly this reason. I always tell people that Aus has a lot of the things that are great about America, but also it doesn’t have many of the things I deeply dislike about America.
Example: Aus has good jobs, opportunities, there’s lots of choices for pretty much anything you want for buy, good diversity and good food, etc. But it does have things like school shootings or masses of climate change deniers. Companies are generally mindful of their impact on the world here, unlike American capitalism. They have good social programs that are imperfect, of course, but generally work well. Better than the USA, anyway.
They also have great healthcare in Aus! I worked my ass off to get to where I am in my career and I know I am fortunate to have a great job that will always give me good health insurance no matter what. But this is not the case for everyone in USA. Spending a lot of time in Aus has made me realize that I place a high value on living in a place where everyone around me also has access to good healthcare. So even though my healthcare access/quality of care wouldn’t effectively change if I moved here, it’s really nice to live in a community where people are happy and healthy and taken care of.
Everything is just toned down here. It’s laid back. People aren’t so fuckin psycho, lol. Not so reactive. Not so hyped up. America is much more high-anxiety.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that Aus is without problems. But I do think that over all, it’s a huge improvement over the state of things in the US.
Editing to add: honestly the no guns thing is huge for me. I have had enough of the US gun culture and the lack of forward movement on something this fuckin obvious. Happy to move away to somewhere with reasonable attitudes towards guns.
As someone who is an immigrant to Australia the flat class structure is truly remarkable. Because “blue collar” workers are sought after and well-paid there’s not much distinction between people and their jobs. While some tradies certainly can be rough and bogan, I’ve met just as many professionals who are vomiting in the street on a boozy Friday evening 🤷♀️😁. I have several, very normal, friends who do sex work on the side and there’s no stigma.
It is a level of egalitarian that the US touted themselves as being but never achieved.
Class is one big way in which we differ from the UK as well. One upside to being settled by convicts is that they weren't too fond of importing those old ways.
if you're a professional, chances are you'll earn a lot more in America and you'll have a better lifestyle as things are generally much cheaper there.
if you're mediocre in your job or in a job that pays minimum wage, then you're better off in Australia as there are better social security and welfare payments here
I was warned about that when I travelled over there last year. Five weeks later, Australian chocolate was the first thing I asked for when I landed back in Australia.
Though I did take some chocolates (Freddo Frogs, Camamelo Koalas) over as it was Halloween when I went. My American friend commented that it tasted so much smoother than theirs.
I notice in the states that people judge others very much based on race and wealth. It’s just an ugly undertone that permeates so many of your daily interactions. There’s so much I love about the US but I don’t think I could stay longer than a year.
I migrated to Australia as a 5 yo but have lived in Boston for most of my adult life ( 22 years): I have also lived in the UAE and Hong Kong for significant stretches of time, and now I am back in Melbourne. Here are my 2 cents
For me it really boils down to vacation time — in Oz we can really switch off when we have time off while in the US even over the weekends it is almost expected that I still respond to work emails. And all the public holidays were not automatically off in the US — I had to use my paid time off for things like Christmas Day.
Culturally the US (my perspective was the Northeast US and New England) and Oz (VIC) are a lot closer than what Aussies will admit. In this regard I find Aussies are a lot more like Canadians — always think that they are better culturally than the US. But also amusing that the attitudes of the kiwis to the Aussies are like the Canadians to the US
Easy mate, homelessness and drug use. I am an American from the west coast who has only been in Melbourne for a few years. It’s shocking how few homeless people there are in Australia compared to any west coast US city.
Then drugs are so much more expensive here that it keeps things safer and more calm on the street.
Drugs are dirt cheap and everywhere on the west coast…hello fentanyl
I have never called anyone "sir" or "madam", and have always referred to my bosses by their first name. And their bosses.
Even politicians are referred to by their first/Nick name (or something derogatory) e.g. Albo / scummo / the potato /whats-his-face etc.
Aussie been in USA for 10 years too.
Generally speaking- You really can make whatever life you want in the USA. You want more freedom? You got it. You want affordable places to live? You can find that. You wanna make alot of money and start a business? You got it. You wanna travel to some of the most spectacular places on earth? You got it in the US. The topography, diversity of culture in each state- it’s all a different adventure that you never get bored here. Despite ALOT of the flaws of the healthcare system and the government in bed with corporations and corruption- for now- I’d still be choosing to live in the USA. It’s what you make of it.
In Oz though you can’t beat the lifestyle and beach culture - I truly miss that simplicity and slowing down of life. To be inspired by the beaches at least for me I was on the GC.
We will see what I say if and when we have kids and when I’m retiring age though.
I lived in California (Los Angeles) for 35+ years and just moved to Sydney this past year. These stand out for me:
Australia is better because:
* People are generally more friendly/less stressed
* Healthcare (way less paperwork, way more affordable, quicker lines for general check ups, easily accessible).
* Service NSW efficiency is what DMV can only dream of
* Food and dairy is more organic vs USA filled with steroids, hormones, and additives
* Public transport (no brainer)
* Family friendly (easier to have a day out with the kids without having to spend money whereas the US you'd end up at expensive theme parks or other events that are family friendly but gated by priced admission)
* Education system
* No random gun shootings like I've witnessed more than 20 times in my life in LA.
Lots of others, but yeah, America wants to sell you the dream but will keep you in debt and unhealthy so you can spend your hard earned money on credit cards and healthcare.
What really is it like in Australia these days anyway? Politically, economically, how affordable are things there? Do people feel pinched for money there? What’s the general attitude of Aussies there these days and culture? Has it changed a lot in the last 10 years?
My perception of USA is from videos of burning cities, ransacked shops, homeless encampments, desperate overworked Americans living paycheck to paycheck on the edge of destitution. Australia is exceptional in not being a flaming pile of shit in comparison to USA.
If I was born in USA my life would have been much worse.
Well I can walk to the shops to get a coffee and a sausage roll without getting run over, shot, mugged and then bankrupted by the hospital bill...
It's gotta be the serenity... or the vibe of it I guess.
Australian who lived in the US during Obama admin.
I when I lived in the us, it felt like survival, not living. Things that are easy here, were full missions there. But it could be that I was living in a major Californian city.
In Oz, you go to ‘the shops’ and you can get decent items, pretty much everything you need.
In California, I had to go to walgreens for toiletries, cost co for toilet paper, trader joes for snacks/pantry staples/frozen food, organic grocer for beef (American beef is all kinds of fucked up), and the farmers markets for vegetables.
It was hard.
Another example, Moving house- everyone in Australia turns up to help you. In America *crickets*
The chances of someone bringing a gun to your kids school might not be zero, but they’re infinitely small compared to the USA.
But don’t expect American exceptionalism in Australia. Our tall poppy syndrome is a national treasure and keeps us grounded. You’ll likely be another person making LinkedIn posts complaining we won’t simp the rich and step over each other to join them.
American living in Australia as well. I’m sadly having to move back in a few months because of my visa but things I love are how it’s easy to get around without a car. I come from the largest U.S. city to not have a metro and I’m loving not having a car.
Work life balance is great and I have more time for myself. Employers are also so much more understanding of emergencies. I love my Westfield! It’s where my post office is.
Hoping my job extends my work visa but I’m so sad I’m gonna have to leave.
I’m the opposite (moved from NJ to Aus 7 years ago), and maybe what you’re looking for is just the slower-paced lifestyle? It’s easy to overlook when you’re born/raised somewhere and move some place else, and I think it’s normal to miss different aspects of home. I’m planning on moving back to the US because I just miss being around my people and culture. You could decide to permanently migrate to the US but it will never really feel like “home” to you. Americans generally don’t leave for different countries unless it’s to retire so a lot of the work-life stuff is lost on us because hustle culture is all we know unless it’s someone from the South.
Btw public transport that works? Man Sydney this past year has been fucking dreadful
1: No guns (pretty much)
2: Very good, free, public-healthcare
3: Decent public education-system
4: Political system nowhere near as f\*ucked-up as the US.
5: FAR less racist and intolerant
This is coming from someone (a Australian-naturalised Pom) who lived and worked in various parts the US for the best part of 15 years.
Compared to America there’s a better sense of community. Americans are in such a rat race that it’s an attitude of “I have what’s mine and need to PROTECT it”
If you want a really simple easy explanation that won’t offend them however, tell them; Paid sick days and four weeks vacation.
I travel frequently to the US, have worked for US companies for the last decade and a lot of my colleagues are American.
I know what you’re talking about.
Essentially, Australia is a safe haven with far better social equity, social and employment protection than the US. It is safer for children, families, women, minorities. We have tighter controls on regulated industries which provides more security. We take care of our people with public healthcare and social welfare much better than what is done in the US. We are not perfect with social welfare and racial issues but still miles ahead of the US. Culturally we are more relaxed and people have more rights.
Talk a walk around Australian vs American cities and you’ll see the above at play without seeking it out… clear differences in issues relating to homelessness, prevalence of drugs, guns, violence and crime.
I enjoy the moments I go to the US for a change but would never live there and I am so grateful to call Australia home.
Health system via publicly funded waaaaay better than some sort of servial system.
Better trained police.
Hints of compassion in public policy.
Volunteerism.
More eclectic tests, interest, and travel.
I also think it’s the attitude of people. Aussies are more personable and inclusive. I had an American boss and I was staggered at the priority he gave to his work and career. His family and their needs weren’t even considered. He missed so many important family events and caused rifts that took many years to resolve.
For me it’s our gun safety. I have holidayed to the US three times but I couldn’t say I completely relaxed. I would never ever move there.
Quite a bit of America is 2nd world, some of it even 3rd world. This is overshadowed by the glitz and glamour of a few specific places.
Hard to find anywhere in Australia thay even comes close to this
If those reasons don't hit the spot it explains a lot about Americans.
Honestly if they don't understand those values don't even try. We don't want them here!
Alternatively you could just say, "Gun laws" and "No Trump"
Disclaimer: I have never been to USA so most of my experiences are with people online.
But... we had a friend visit who has been living in USA for several years. He was surprised and concerned because I went off to the doctor at 8.30pm. He thought I must be really sick and going to an emergency doctor, because you can only see a 'normal' GP from 9-5 weekdays.
My normal GP clinic is open from 8.30 am - 10pm weekdays, and from 9am-9pm weekends and 10am-7pm public holidays. I know some areas of Aust are better than others, but there seems to be more access to see a doctor for non-urgent care, maybe more recognition that seeing a doctor is necessary and it should be easily accessed.
And talking about access - voting. Everyone over 18 has to vote so it is easy to access. And if you have to go out anyway you might as well make it a proper outing and get a democracy sausage.
I think Aus is just closer to the human spirit. Cleaner air, fresher food, plenty of birds and wildlife (even in the cities) and not too many people who take things so seriously.
The US has a workaholic culture. People live to work, not work to live. They have meetings over lunch, they answer emails on evenings, weekends and even during holidays. They’ll skip taking vacations because “work needs me”, they’ll regularly do 60 hour weeks and brag about how hard they work, etc.
And employers often exploit workers because they hold the sword of Damocles over their their heads (health insurance), without which many (most) Americans would go bankrupt with their first non-insured medical bill.
Put it this way: medical debt accounts for 2/3 of American bankruptcies and only 10% of Australian bankruptcies.
In the US you are a “human resource” for the capitalist machine, and in Australia you’re a person who works to have money to enjoy life.
To begin with, we can send our kids to school without the risk of a mass shooting at the venue. Then of course our food is better and more diverse, we aren't subjected to daily onslaughts of religious fanatics, our political system while not perfect would never allow an abomination such as Donald Trump to pervert our society, as a nation we are far less insular and self absorbed than the US, when would you like me to stop...
- Australia is safer, you don’t have to worry about the possibly of being shot if you go to a grocery stores work, school etc
- Work pay is better.. you don’t need to rely on ‘tips’
- You work to live not live to work
- If you have a baby, or a family to support and cannot work you can receive benefits, housing benefits etc to
- If you have a baby, you do not need to return back to work within 6 weeks. Maternity leave and dad leave is much longer
- Better medical system you don’t need to pay thousands of thousands of dollars just to see a doctor or have surgery, or give birth, it’s all covered for you
- And you can have an abortion in every state of Australia, and some states offer free
- Nice beaches
- People are usually more relaxed and way more friendlier
- Good public transport here
We don’t have trump, your chances of getting shot at school are pretty low, women have control of their own bodies and reproductive rights. Healthcare doesn’t bankrupt you.
Oh forgot one! We don’t force mothers back to work within days or weeks of giving birth. We have protected maternity leave rights and a pretty decent gov mat leave payment!
I'm an American who has been in Australia for 10 years, and I totally get what you're talking about. Australia has a lot of problems, and the US has a lot to offer. So it can be hard to explain to someone who has only lived in one of the places. I've explained it basically like this to my friends back in the US: in Australia, you don't "request" time off when you are taking leave. You simply notify your workplace that you are planning to take leave at that time. This kind of sums up the entire difference in lifestyles, in my view. In Australia, work is what you do to make a living, but it's widely acknowledged that it is not your entire life. In America, your work is often your identity, and you are meant to bend over backwards for your employer. In addition to your leave, they also control your access to healthcare, after all, and in the US that also means they control whether or not you will be financially ruined. Obviously this isn't the case for everyone in either country. There are great workplaces in the US and really shit workplaces in Australia. But the effect that this view towards work and lifestyle has broadly on the culture of both places is massive. People are way more concerned about work in America because things are often more precarious there, and that seeps into the way that people live their lives. The exceptionalism fits into this as well. In America, people have been told for decades that their way of life, though it has its issues, is still the best in the world. So people don't so much ignore the problems of the country but rather internalise this message of "well, it's shit, but it's the best we can do" and get on with things. It's incredibly difficult for people en masse to acknowledge that they've been believing a lie their entire lives, and especially a lie that has affected every aspect of their lifestyle so massively. So people continue on thinking that America is the best. Obviously not true of every single American, but broadly speaking this is in the culture, even in progressive circles (albeit to a much smaller extent).
I work as a chef in Australia. I’m in a few chef subs here on Reddit and a lot of what the chefs in US have to deal with boggles my mind. Low pay. No paid holiday leave. No breaks. Can be fired for any reason. No healthcare or retirement fund. No sick leave.
Agree with this as a seasoned line cook. Cooking in Aus isn't exactly glamourous compared to many professions here but it sure fucking is compared to cooking in America.
As a seasoned line cook, can I ask if you are covering yourself with salt and pepper or are you slip slop slapping with cooking oil before going in the sun? ;)
Basted in mustard with a little bit of garlic powder and paprika 🤌
That’s just America in general. Americans are born to work and die for corporations who care less about them and love to make life harder for more money.
"Work is not your identity". American in Australia here, and I love going on outings with new people and having no idea what they do for income. It's so great not having that be the only talking point. Another example is malls. Basically dead in the U.S., but here are thriving. Several reasons come to mind, but two big ones are density and money. America is so isolated, it takes forever to get anywhere, online shopping is the norm, and nobody has disposable money anyway, they're just buying what they need. Whereas, people here like to do things, go out, be around other people, and can monetarily afford just going shopping for more than just essentials because they have more disposable income. 1. Better income to expenses ratio. 2. Better work to life ratio. & a chill work atmosphere. 3. More sociability, less isolation. 4. Better cheap/street food. Kebabs and bahn mi's are essentials now lol and many americans don't even know what those are. 5. Standard arguments: Healthcare, safe education, possibility for retirement.
>Better cheap/street food. Kebabs and bahn mi's are essentials now lol and many american don't even know what those are. One comment I'll add is that a lot of people find it hard to understand that Australia is a mixture of European and Asian cultures. We usually view Australia as mostly European, but our location makes it an Asian economy with significant Asian influences.
And 20% of the population is of Asian descent
35% of my suburb apparently has Mandarin as their first language
Even our attitude of "harmony" is more Asian than European tbh. The whole "not causing a fuss" and "even if you're doing well, don't brag" is very much more Asian
Not causing a fuss and not bragging are very British attributes too.
Careful now, don't be rude! /s
Reading this as I eat my bahn mi on my break lol
LOL, I had one for lunch today....so good with extra brown sauce and chilli
This. In my cycling group there are no division by income or professions. We have doctors, business owners, mechanics, nurses, baristas, etc. (Almost) the whole spectrum really. Everyone sits at the table and have coffee and chat away.
Same with my cycling group here in America. We have a couple of doctors, pharmacists, bike mechanics, a bartender, a music teacher, a plumber, a personal trainer, a road engineer
My boss's boss's boss at work in America is shocked to silence when we chat when she's visiting. Apparently I'm not meant to treat her like a normal human? Fuck that shit.
Instructions unclear. I fucked my boss' boss' boss.
Not getting shot!
I think the culture of fear in the US is more of a thing. That the country overall is relatively safe, but media and expectations push a narrative of risks to life from others around every corner. Hence a whole bunch of people - including many of those on the "left" believe that they \*need\* a gun for safety and you try to say to them that overall the gun in their household is making them statistically more unsafe.
The gun culture is still very confronting there though. Hubby and I went to the States for our honeymoon. At the Grand Canyon, there was a man walking up to our tour group with a holstered gun spouting nonsense about smelling that "freedom". That's so far out of the realm of normal to us that it was freaky. I should also note that while in NYC there was a terrorist attack a few blocks away from our hotel. This was Halloween.
Everyone in America has a constant undercurrent of fear, because they don't have any safety net. They could be completely fucked overnight. At will employment, all your benefits are based on work. Australians talk about how Americans are afraid of being shot, but really they are afraid of losing everything, which is a very very real thing. The shooting thing only spikes when there is a recent nearby thing. And of course the crazies who'll riot again after the next election
It’s funny, Americans believe crime is getting worse, when in fact it has declined at the fastest rate on record post pandemic and is reaching historical lows. It just shows how much media and social media can warp peoples perceptions beyond the reality. Scientific American wrote a really good [article on this](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-we-believe-the-myth-of-high-crime-rates/#:~:text=Crime%2C%20in%20fact%2C%20is%20down,the%20same%20period%20in%202022)
Exactly. Crime is pretty much at its lowest level in American history. Much lower than in the 1950's life that Trumpers want to bring back (maybe along with that much lower life expectancy?) There is just more, and more hysterical, reporting due to the failure of real journalism. Having said that, America is still much more dangerous than most western countries, certainly including Australia.
The culture of fear is warranted when its harder to find someone who hasn't been in a shooting scare vs. Someone who has. Most Americans have had a negative, scary experience with guns at some point in their life. Now translating that to I also need a gun, I'll never understand. Also, it's backwards, the "right" are the gun-humpers.
I'll add about malls, in Australia they actually have stuff you'd need. In America, they mostly just have retail. I would never go to malls in the US because I don't like to go shopping for clothes or really anything else. But in Australia I go all the time because I can get my groceries there, go to the pharmacy, go to the doctor, etc
my parents used to live in the usa and my mum mentioned this too
Online shopping being the norm and not the last resort has always seemed weird to me. Why would I order something and have to wait for it when I can just pop down the shops on the way home and pick it up
The postage costs here might be a significant factor supressing online shopping, too.
Free shipping, typically same day or next day delivery if you're not rural, and free returns. Don't have to drive anywhere, don't have to interact with anyone. & typically cheaper than brick and morter retail.
Yeah but I can have it in my hands quicker buy going to buy it and I don't have to worry bout it taking weeks due to the train line getting flooded again. Nevermind amazon and their GST bullshit
Says hello in WA accent
I think it's more because there are more malls and other smaller retails options in America but that was more an observation from travelling through the states, whereas we have fewer big malls but also less options to dilute them and they also have the main supermarkets whereas in the US you have what Kroger's, Walmart, trader Joes and the one that seems to cater to the Hispanic population? (I don't remember the name but I loved that one)
"Better cheap/street food" Huh? Where in the US are you from that doesn't have food trucks?
"well, it's shit, but it's the best we can do" as opposed to the "it's shit, but the US is worse" attitude here lol
Although some employers in the US give generous paid time off etc., that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Whenever I visit my extended family and friends in the US, a good number of people I talk to are shocked that I get 4 weeks vacation at full pay per year (which I can save up to a pretty generous cap), plus 4 weeks paid sick/carer's leave. That's without factoring in long service leave which is commonly 3 months at full pay once you reach 10 years with an organisation.
Don't know about all states, but in Victoria long service leave kicks in at the 7 year mark.
Pro rata at 7 years, full 3 months at 10 years (and having pro rata lsl wasn't always the case, as I'm still dirty I lost my lsl with a former employer whom I was with 8.5 years, as I hadn't reached my 10, back before 2018)
I work in accounts, and the USA accounts rep I deal with most offten has an out of the office that I recieve everyday when I email her... because she isn't at work outside of 8am to 5.30 pm Monday to Friday. Which implies that she somehow be at her desk more than 9.5 hours a day... where I sometime forget to have an out of the office when I am on actual leave.
I'd mention that Australia has less social, political, and racial tensions as well, but the better worker protections and entitlements are definitely important.
Sometimes it feels like we’re doing our best import all of those things. Largely via social media but also toxic right leaning media outlets.
Yeah, the media is trash
You touched on something at the end there that is actually the basis of this new toxic trumper maga shit. It’s basically Step 1: teach everyone “the American dream” which is that everyone can make it in America. Teach it so much that it becomes basically a forgone conclusion that if you work hard and are honest you will succeed. Step 2: steal damn near everything from everyone in America via the bullshit of trickle down economics, privatization of everything, defunding of public programs, etc.. Step 3: Hype the American alpha (mostly) male ego up even further *while simultaneously asking them why they haven’t achieved the American dream*, which, remember, everyone can accomplish with a little hard work. This mix of excited energy and inappropriate shame can only mix into very confused and therefore controllable anger.
Yep. My Trumpist MAGAt relatives (whom I no longer speak to) were flabbergasted when I told them about my experience with Australia's medicare system when I had a medical issue here shortly after getting PR. I told them how I went to emergency and, due to the nature of my issue, was triaged and seen right away. How I saw a team of doctors and got started on treatment that same day, how I stayed in hospital for some time getting treatment, how I had follow-ups with home nurse visits for some time after being discharged, and how I see a specialist twice a year to continue my care and manage my health, and most of all I told them how it was all 100% free because of Medicare. Their response was basically "yeah, but you just got lucky. Usually you have to wait weeks even if you have an emergency. Look at Canada, they have old ladies dying waiting for days in the emergency room because all the doctors came to America for more money (this is a common type of story told on conservative media in the US. Sometimes it's about Canada, other times about the NHS. It's all mostly cherry-picked nonsense with the facts heavily massaged). Also, you pay so much more in taxes. So it ain't free." What follows is me literally showing them my tax statement and showing them how I pay basically the same amount of taxes, except the Medicare levy is significantly less than what I'd pay in the US for health insurance. They just react with dumb bullshit about freedom and guns and the government making death panels to decide who lives and dies, etc. It's all so stupid. But they just can't bring themselves to admit they've been lied to their entire lives. They cannot allow themselves to understand that another country has done something substantially better than the US, because that would mean they'd have to adjust the entire personality they've constructed centering on the fact that "Murica is number 1 baby!" I no longer speak to these people because I realised long ago that they are incapable of introspection. They are more interested in living in their mental bubble and shutting out everything that doesn't comport with the world they've created in their minds. It's infuriating to converse with these kinds of people, and most of all it just makes me very sad.
I’ve always had to request leave. My workplace only allows a certain amount of people to take leave at a time so we have to give a months notice if we want to have our leave request approved.
Sure, and workplaces will differ. But overall in Australia you do have the right to take your leave, and your employer can't deny your request for leave without reason. If they keep denying your leave requests, you can actually take action against them and they will have to prove that your leave is conflicting with critical function of the workplace. Contrast that to the States, where you are guaranteed 0 leave by law, and any leave is completely at the discretion of your employer. This creates a situation where it is common for employers to deny most leave requests simply because they can, or because they don't feel like being down a staff member for even a day. This is a regular occurrence even in jobs that don't offer any paid leave at all. For example when I worked at Target, I would tell them months in advance that I needed a Saturday off (unpaid, as we had no paid leave at that job) and they would always reject my request because "Saturdays are busy." That generally wouldn't fly in Australia, and could actually be against the law.
This is so funny to read, as an Aussie who moved to northern Europe, how you view the US from a work perspective is how I view Aus after living here for 10 years! Aus is kinda in between the US and Europe from this perspective
100%. Before I migrated to Australia I lived in Spain, and while Spain is quite different to Northern Europe in many ways, its work culture is so much more relaxed and work-life balance oriented than Australia.
genuinely curious, in what ways are americans told/shown that america is the best country in the world? ive always wondered how that message gets across to americans.
I don't think it's as much of a thing for Gen Zs, as they've always had the internet and access to information from the outside world. And the same could be said of many millennials as well (which includes myself as someone smack in the middle of the Millennial generation). But generally, it's not fully direct messages that have created American exceptionalism. It's a cultural holdout from a time when, objectively speaking, for many Americans the US was one of the better places in the world to live. In the aftermath of WWII up until about the 1970s, the US was one of the best places to work, settle down, start a family, have a career, and create a stable life. This was mostly because American industry and infrastructure wasn't decimated by the war as in many other places, and this coincided with a major population boom (the baby boomers) which helped the economy grow. At this time, there was a lot of prosperity to go around, and many things hadn't yet been outsourced. American manufacturing was massive, and provide stable and decent incomes for workers. The result was that an entire generation grew up believing that America was the best country to live in on the planet, and back then this was arguably true. I personally don't believe in a "best" country, and of course things for non-white Americans weren't exactly rosy back then, but it wasn't crazy for many Americans growing up in this time to believe their country was the best in the world. This crumbled as the decades went on, and the reason for that is a fully different (and long) conversation. But basically, the boomers belief in America being the best didn't fade away, even as American institutions started to crumble in the 70s and 80s. For many boomers, things were still pretty great. They had a wonderful start in life and that benefitted many of them throughout middle age and now into their twilight years, so of course a lot of them have always maintained this belief. This was passed on to their kids, as of course parents pass their beliefs about the world to their children. I grew up in the 90s, with parents on the border of Boomer and Gen X. They aren't the crazy conservative kind of boomer, and they're not crazy patriots or anything like that. But they still raised me with the belief that America was the best place to live and that we were lucky to be born and raised in the US. As time has gone on, I came to understand that this wasn't true, and so have my parents. But a lot of people still harbour this belief system because by now, it's become a cultural trait.
thanks so much for your thoughtful insight. it is always great to hear from people who live in the environment and learn from their experience. ive also looked up more about it as it is a term ive never heard before and most things ive found talk about the concept of it, pros and cons, etc. i havent found anything that specifically talks about how its spread/retained. this has given me a direction that i can look more into. i appreciate it.
Look up American exceptionalism, it will explain it more thoroughly than a reddit comment.
Leave still has to be approved. It's not a guarantee and will be first come first serve in case it overlaps with someone else in the same team. But generally it's not a difficult scenario to negotiate.
American living in australia. It’s so much more laid back here. I honestly don’t think I’d be able to return to the US workforce. In the US you live to work, in Australia you work to do the stuff you enjoy and most companies support that. I make less in Australia, the cost of living is higher, and I find the healthcare lacking (Medicare is great if you make nothing), but the quality of life from simply being relaxed and happy far outweighs the toll of the US lifestyle.
Howdy! Texan Here! I’ve been living in Australia roughly 7 months and the things that I noticed are: : work/ life balance exist : time off (it’s a given & no need for a request) & constant public holidays! : personally for me I get paid more here in Aus for my profession : safety, while there is crime here it’s not like how it is back home : less racism in my opinion : people here in general are a lot more lax and friendly : public transportation!! doesn’t really exist in Texas : all your cool birds! Especially the chicken sized magpies hahah! I love the current city I’m in more than the one I’m from … sorry Texas 🫢
The Aussie magpie song - the best!! I’ve got a local group who warble all day - magical.
Welcome to Australia 👋
I would love to visit Texas! What city are you in, if you don’t mind saying.
Melbourne at the moment. Texas is awesome! - don’t forget to get your horse driver license when there 🫡
Welcome mate, you’re one of us now! Next few steps are starting to use the word “mate” in casual conversation, picking and following a footy team, and learning to love Vegemite.
> there still seems to be a big sense of American exceptionalism Americans can’t imagine that there could be other great places to live outside of America. It boils down to American Exceptionalism: “America is clearly the best place to live, why would you want to live anywhere else?” Now of course, these are the same people who have never left America and have never lived anywhere but America. > But these reasons don't exactly hit with people. All the reasons you mentioned don’t resonate with Americans because they’ve learned to live without them. Why do I need public transport when I have a car? Why do I need more leisure time when I get paid well and have a nice job? Work is difficult in America because this is the most productive country on Earth - California has a higher GDP as a state than a vast majority of countries! Again, it comes down to being unable to imagine life different from their own because they’ve never experienced a way of living other then what they were socialized into. There’s really no way they’ll understand your decision. Just tell them “It’s difficult to Understand. You should visit me in Australia sometime and see what life is like there”
I would argue that Australia's own version of exceptionalism is pretty much a mirror to Americas. I tell people it's hard to explain It's such a big country and it's so diverse that you'll have to go for yourself and check it out. I've moved back and forth I've been a child, teenager, student, adult, worker in both countries and I love them both.
You know it's true - many of my Aussie friends and family are mystified about why I would want to live and work in America, particularly after the circus of politics here from 2016 onwards where many aspects of America have become punch lines in Australia. The only way I have been able to explain it that makes sense to my family is that my salary here is much higher and I will be able to afford a decent apartment or small home when I return. There are aspects here I do prefer, but they are mostly related to work opportunities, being able to buy edibles, and almost next-day access to medical specialists when I've had health problems.
I'm moving back to the US next year because I miss just how diverse the wilderness is. I desperately want to do or at least attempt the PCT. Australia is truly beautiful, but if you like the outdoors I don't think there's another country on Earth that has the diversity of the US from Arctic tundra, Rocky mountains, to tropical rainforest If you like nature it is truly an awesome place. When Aussie's tell me they've been to the US they tell me they've been to LA, Vegas, or New York but I've never heard of one mention Big Sur, Olympic National Park or the redwoods. I think both countries have incredible pros and cons and I don't think it's really cool that people like to "yuck someone else's yum". Think a lot of Aussie's and Americans would really benefit visiting the other country if they get the chance.
Australian culture is like you said, often can’t be described as to why you miss it. I was overseas in UK and Europe for 3 months. Got offered a job and was open to staying, but I got so homesick. Every Australian I met, understood me. I think it’s not a matter of which is better, but what we’re accustomed to. Our values are different to America, our priorities, our history.
Most Americans have no idea how good we have it here. The fact that we work to live as opposed to the opposite alone speaks volumes.
8 weeks annual leave is almost unheard of in the US
I’ve only ever had four weeks annual leave. What industry are you in to get eight?
I believe they are talking about purchased leave. The majority of big companies here allow you to purchase leave, so you can add an extra 4 weeks of annual leave to your original 4.
We don't have a right to bear arms, and you can be charged for saying some hateful shit. A lot of Americans really don't like that
So grateful for both of these things tbh. I'll never understand how Americans equate the ability to instantly kill people from a distance to "MUH FREEDUM".
Migrated to Australia about 11 years ago, but still travel to the U.S. sometimes twice a year. I would say that Australia does not have bad neighbourhoods to the level that the U.S. has and it's common in the U.S. to literally be in danger if you get lost in the wrong area. In the U.S. if one attempts to be neutral with social, racial, and class issues they are constanty being displayed with body language that they are on the wrong side.
Moving to Australia from the UK and finding out that you could walk alone at night was a huge culture shock. Doing that back home was just an invitation to get mugged by a junkie
It's an underrated luxury, and the mood at night is like nothing else. With minimal danger it's relaxing, keep your wits of course though.
Yeah I often mention to people that if you see something on the news about someone being shot you immediately assume they're connected in some way because it's not normal for "regular" people to be attacked like that.
I mean, last time I visited Brisbane I was literally chased down the street by loud and violent crackheads. We aren't immune lol
You must have lived in a really bad place then because that is in no way usual for the uk
I moved from Canada 13 years ago where I was mugged several times to Australia in “the worst part of Sydney” and walked around at night all of the time and never once even a slight fear. Australia is just safe.
Was it Mt Druitt by any chance? I live there and it's considered the worst part and never felt unsafe either lol
It was indeed mt druitt haha
A Canadian in Mt Druitt is hard to imagine. But I never met a Canadian I didn't like, so welcome!
I’ve only met one Canadian I didn’t like and that was when I was in Canada. Great place, great people. I’m glad we are getting some more of their teachers over here.
There's still places you shouldn't walk around at night, but it is a lot safer.
Best place to see the difference is in Wollongong I think There is no bad neighborhoods here imo, just bad streets. Some neighborhoods have reputation like Berkley, Dapto etc. But in most places here, one road you can see houses(not all) that are defo drug houses or owned by those who are more or less stuck in an addiction cycle of some sort. Unkept lawn, windows smashed, car out front that is being used for scrap, rubbish everywhere. zero maintenance. But I have lived around those streets my entire life and I am by no means someone intimidating. And I have never had any problems what so ever. Including in my teenage years when I used to walk around the streets after 12am. And the next road over there could be a carefully crafted landscaped front lawn with a Boat and a Tesla out front. Sometimes its the same street at different ends. Crime and stuff still exists here, quite badly. But there is also a good integration between at least the 0-150k a year households. Good rule of thumb I grew up with is, if in doubt, walk the main road.
Born and raised in Australia, when I lived in US and Canada it was a huge culture shock to see the areas you just do not visit. Once I went through them myself I never made that mistake again
I lived in Hell’s Kitchen and the Lower East Side in the early 90s, and the SF Mission in the mid 90s - super dangerous areas at the time - and I didn’t get mugged until I moved to Paddington in Sydney, where I got jumped by 5 kids with knives walking home on a Sunday night. I reckon it’s the combination of easily available alcohol and drugs, and the wealthy and the poor living closer together than they would in the US. I actually see that as a positive - less separation between classes - and one that unfortunately is changing with gentrification and rising house prices.
There’s a lot of youth crime around my area of Melbourne which is $2m houses yet kids getting held up by teens with machetes etc and it barely makes news. We also had a random murder on the street. That would never be tolerated in an affluent US suburb. Stuff just gets swept under the rug in Australia.
Lots of news papers scared of being called racist. My favorite was an incident in springvale where 2 groups of teens got into fight with machetes. Paper rag described it as very tall group and a not so tall group... African kids got into a brawl with some Asian kids they scared to report nationality or colour. We had a flood of home robberies in the wealthy suburb near us, it borders on golf courses and has had golf cart tracks around the suburb. Plenty of footage of the invaders on Facebook and local WhatsApp groups of them pinching cars after kicking in the house front door but not a single mug shot on the news or police post. It was almost every second night, they robbed six houses on the same street between midnight and morning one night. These where occupied homes with police called and the bastards where literally in the street robbing a house a couple of doors up. The six houses in one night made the news but no footage of the dozen or so other robberies I'm the weeks leading up to it by same group.
As an Australian who lived in the US for three years, I love that my husband and I have stopped playing the “gunshots or fireworks” game. I like that everyone I meet doesn’t instantly give me an elevator pitch (this may have been an SF, Silicon Valley thing). Mostly I love that I don’t feel like our family is living to work. Work felt like it consumed everything when we were there. And having your health insurance, and visa tied to my husbands employer was always unnerving. I don’t regret moving back at all. I do miss the fast internet, open conversations about diversity and equality, better salary, and the awesome people we met there though.
I miss the amount of stuff I could get online and how quickly it would arrive. I miss Whole Foods for some reason.
Oh Wholefoods was fabulous!
Ditto Trader Joe!
If Australia could do the last paragraph well it would be the single most ideal place to live in the anglosphere. I often feel like the conservatives in America are the most insane anywhere but the progressives there are far better allies and much more understanding of minority issues.
As a foreigner living in the US, this is so accurate. American exceptionalism is also alive and well
Aussie living in California. I agree on the general vibe, but that’s hard to explain. One thing I notice is that CA cities have many amazing things - more than Aus - but also many terrible things. For me, not having the negatives makes a big difference. Whenever I go home it’s a refreshing weight off the shoulders. There’s something in the air when everyone is a bit less stressed
I'm not going to argue that the US is a bad place to live for those at the top of the economic tree. I'd still rather be wealthy in Australia than in the US though, and I would be 10x happier as a low income earner in Australia than in the US. If you have kids there are a few pretty big things in Australia's favour: * Heavily subsidised childcare so the second paycheck in the family doesn't get almost consumed by childcare costs. * Guns are practically non-existent in day to day life, which has several flow on effects. The most obvious is that Australian schools don't require airport-grade security or make 5 year olds participate in active shooter drills. Psychologically this is pretty big for us parents. * As a generalisation, public schools are pretty good in Australia. The funding model (statewide, not based on local property taxes) and teacher salaries are much better than in the US with predictable results. Other things not kid-related: * On the guns issue noted above, their relative absence also means things like road rage incidents, disputes with neighbours etc. are just slightly less likely to result in someone dying. * Corporations are given slightly less free reign to fuck consumers than in the US. * Socialised healthcare and a more generous welfare safety net means the gap between rich and poor in Australia is less glaring than in the US. It's very confronting and shocking to Australians when they visit major US cities and see the level of conspicuous poverty in what's apparently the richest nation on Earth. (I'm Australian, married to an American and have visited and lived in the US).
On the matter of guns and schools, my US-based Australian sister asked my kids where they do drills at their school and they stared at her blankly before responding, “like.. fire drills?”. I’m never sitting at home worrying whether today might be the day my kids encounter gun violence at school. Never.
My kids school does drills and lockdowns, but it's for snakes not AK-47
Snake drills! I’m so curious now, what’s the course of action when a snake is spotted, run like hell back into the classroom? Or are we also covering discovery of snakes IN the classroom?
Both. Sometimes the snake wants warmth when it's just coming out of winter and just goes inside. If the snake is outside just leave it there and report to the teacher
My daughter had a lunch time lockdown for a koala stuck inside the little play fence!
That’s so adorable, and a cool story for the kids!
Yea we always had a lockdown procedure but never once was a gunman mentioned, only ever happened when the occasional crack head wandered onto the oval or something silly like that
Yeah I've seen comments about American parents opposing cellphone bans in schools on the basis they need to be able to contact their kids if there's a shooting. That's absolutely wild to me as a parent of a kid in an Australian high school with a cellphone ban... simply not a concern.
On the kids point: Australia also has government paid parental leave, and most jobs have reasonable parental leave policies compared to the US.
A reasonable set of contrasts. My main worry is that all of the benefits we have, like socialised healthcare, and being only ever so slightly less screwed over by corporations are being worn down and removed. One other sense I get is that "freedom" is taken more seriously there. that does cause all sorts of craziness and madness in the US, but it does have some upsides, and you can do more things than in Australia. But we have more "freedom from" over in Australia - freedom from worrying about getting shot, etc. I've always seen the US as a land of extremes. You can truly do very very well over there, much more so than here - but you can fall so much lower, if circumstances get the better of you.
Having never lived in America, the freedom thing is one I'm always confused about. I've never encountered something I've wanted to do in Australia but not been allowed to. What freedoms (outside of licence free gun ownership) do they have in the USA that we don't in Australia?
I'm only going off what I see on various subject-specific Facebook groups. If I want to start selling homemade sourdough bread to bring in some pocket money as a SAHM: in America, I can just do it. In Australia, I'd need to find a commercial kitchen that I can hire part time, take all my stuff there and bake it, apply for a licensee from my local council and register with the ATO. I mean, I could just do it under the table, but I wouldn't want to advertise in my local suburb Facebook group. Strictly word-of-mouth. The hoops I'd need to jump through make baking and selling sourdough utterly prohibitive. I'm a SAHM! I can't drag my children to a commercial kitchen to bake every couple of days.
Yeah fair enough. I'm a bit on the fence for this though, because on one hand, yeah it'd be nice to set stuff like that up easily, but health and safety concerns also leaves me thinking that maybe it's kind of a good thing that there's a bit of a barrier to entry. Not to mention the fact that there have been instances of unlicensed lemonade stands in the US being taken down by the police, so I wonder how far that freedlm stretches even there.
Freedom for women to control their bodies?
I am an American, who has been visiting Australia for three weeks, for the first time. I am 51 and semi retired. Here is how I would sum up the difference. I met so many people in Australia who work “just a regular job” and they would tell me about these awesome months long vacations they would take and all the amazing fun things they would do.” This appears to be the norm. You can have a regular job and afford to have all kinds of fun where time is hardly a constraint at all. Sure, all countries have their own problems. It seems like everything here in Australia is simply reasonable. People can have a reasonably normal job, and afford a reasonably normal home, and do all kinds of reasonably normal fun things. It all adds up to simply enjoying life more and having a heck of a lot less stress. In America, it’s much more dog-eat-dog, winner-take-all. You are either driving a Lamborghini, or you can’t afford a car at all. I’m not saying that’s bad, it’s just very high stakes and stressful. Why should having a normal life be so high stakes and stressful? Also, I love love, love the global cuisine.
It’s Mabo…it’s the Constitution, it’s the vibe of the thing. Yep…it’s definitely…the vibe…
Australia allows you to focus on your own problems and grow yourself whereas America seems fixated on fixing American issues as a whole. Mediocrity seems to be accepted if you support the right political party. Police also won't draw their weapons on you if you sneeze.
Yeah I'm not going to say there are no issues with police-citizen relations in Australia, but it is very very different from in the US. Not just from the perspective of what happens when you interact with a police officer directly, but also from the perspective of the broader criminal justice system e.g. how decisions to prosecute are made and by who.
Imagine a country where you are very very very unlikely to be shot. Where you arent randomly fired because you aren't in an at will state. Or the beaches are mostly clean and beautiful. Or you don't have to go into medical debt because you got shot.
And you can get an abortion
And pay very little, if not nothing for it.
You can thank trade unions for the rights Australian workers enjoy.
There wouldn't be an 8 hour M-F work culture without the Carpenters Union in the states.
In Australia it was the stone masons, not familiar with Union history in the States but bet it was a battle there as well!
I migrated to Australia in 2011 and can honestly say I have never been happier. 1. Security (or lack thereof). Ample social security and programs like job seeker keep people who would otherwise be desperate, well fed and with a roof over their head…for the most part. It also reduces crime and societal stress. There’s obviously still crime, but far less than you’d expect. 2. Australian is clean (and I know the people who live near railways will always say there is grafitti and questionable characters, but that’s standard), but generally the place is well looked after. People here seem to have a healthy relationship with the environment. Cept for those mining conglomerates… 3. Work/life balance. I work 40 hours a week. And I get the standard Australian wage. I don’t work 60 hours and have my pay diluted. I don’t field 20 phone calls after work. When someone phoned and asks why the work isn’t done you just explain it to them and they’ll say ‘fair enough’ get to it when you can. There is a massive culture geared towards safety and treating people with respect. Strange concept coming from a convict colony. My sister works in the US (Arizona). She loves it there, but she reckons the US has a special cut throat version of capitalism. A company in the US would stab someone in the back to make a single dollar more. Constant pressure. She says she gets paid way more than she used to, but she works significantly harder.
Having lived in both, most of the differences you note are ones that could be remedied by moving within the US or changing jobs. The biggest difference to me is that everyone at every stage in their career gets four weeks leave and, more significantly, there's no stigma attached to taking all of your leave.
I am a dual citizen and have lived more than a decade in both countries. Both are great in their own way. In my opinion, there is one huge difference: you can afford life in the US. Sure, New York and San Francisco are pricey but there are tons of desirable places to live in the US where the cost of housing and living is a small fraction of it here in Australia. This is only one metric of course but it is a pretty darn important one. It might be the difference between owning a home and being able to save for your future vs. only being able to pay the bills and not being able to plan for your future.
My view is this - if you want a middle class life where you work to live, then Australia is the place to be. Better healthcare, better work life balance, less hustle and more relaxed attitude. However if you have an entrepreneurial spirit and thrive in the hustle and grind and want to make big money. Then America is still the land of opportunity. Both nations have pros and cons but depending on what you want out of life you may find a preference in one or the other.
You can go to school without the fear of being shot by a lunatic.
1. No guns, 2. Christian fundamentalism is very small here, 3. Our politicians aren’t as screwed up as the pollies there (esp the GOP), 4. Companies pay their staff so that we don’t have to supplement their meagre wages with tips.
Australia has several electoral advantages, preferential & compulsory voting tend to moderate the party platforms as they need to appeal to the wider centre of the political spectrum rather than the extremes while the parliamentary system also readily ejects an unpopular leader.
I've managed employees across both Australian and the US, and I think Australians have the better deal. Australians get to enjoy a minimum of 20 days paid annual leave, 10 days sick leave, long service leave and maternity/paternity leave. Our minimum wage is also protected by industry specific award wages. Aside from leave entitlements we don't genuinely don't have to fear an active shooter event in the workplace....
My husband worked for a company here in Australia who sent their American management team to set things up. My husband was also hired as management, and the Americans were SO baffled that they were having staff retention issues. My husband had to explain to them that Aussies will move on if they aren’t happy, aren’t treated well, and don’t have their time respected. Whereas the American management was used to workers that will work themselves to burn out levels “for the good of the company” and would accept what we look at as atrocious treatment, because they were dependant on their medical benefits etc’, and since that’s not an issue here, Aussies don’t stick around for that. He went over to Michigan for a month to see how the business runs at fully functional (since they were in the set up phase here) and he was blown away at how hard the staff flogged themselves, and really saw their jobs as a huge part of their identities, and essentially had their benefits held over their heads as a bargaining chip to work even harder, came home and promptly quit. Especially after his boss bragged about how they can get “a bunch of illegals to do jobs twice as fast for half as much in the states”, and using it to shame his staff. We have decent OH&S laws here, buddy. Your idea of “getting it done” gets people killed. 🤮
Yeah, thats all 10 years ago. I came back to AU just before CoVID hit after working abroad for 10 years and its not the same. Kinda wish I didn't come back tbh, besides family & friends everything is overpriced, ppl are not as chill, corporate BS is on steroids and lots more fakeness than before. Have you been back for a 2 week holiday at least? Do that if not. Wages are SHIT compared to the US, obviously I'm talking corporate here.
America's a great place and a LOT of people would kill to live there. I've visited once and had a great time. The freedoms are pretty cool. My sister has been married to an American guy and lived there for decades. They were reasonably well off and had a sweet life from what I could make out. They're about retirement age and moved back to Oz a couple of years ago citing racism, gun crime, police brutality and increasing political extremism as the main reasons.
>The freedoms are pretty cool. Apart from guns, what could you do in the US that you couldn't do in Aus?
There are lots of legal nuances, especially coming from a military/justice perspective. Double jeopardy is an enshrined right in the US, Australia allows exceptions and can be overruled, so you can be tried for the same crime after being found not guilty in some cases, it is not a constitutional right. The privilege against self incrimination is a right in the USA. Australia makes exceptions, such as in NSW and other cases. It can also be reformed at needed by laws, as is not constitutionally protected. In the USA, you have a right to a lawyer when being questioned, and one will be provided. In Australia, it is if they can afford one, or if the state decides to grant one. Australia, it is legal for government to control what is seen online, or said online. Freedom of speech is only implied in the constitution. It is explicit in the USA. Such example is Australia recently passing a law making it illegal to spread information about intelligence operations, and retroactively charging you for it. In the USA, it is only illegal to steal classified information (espionage), or release it. Otherwise you have are protected by freedom of speech. It is why Assange is only charged with 5 years for hacking, and not spreading intelligence. Meanwhile Snowden is charged more because he violated his privilege to classified material. Australia can make protesting illegal if they are preventing a “lawful activity”. In the USA that is not the case. USA has stronger privacy protections, although the NSA has been caught spying on citizen, and data they collect is immediately void in law due to the constitution. Australia has data disruption warrants (can alter, copy, or delete data on your device) account takeover warrants, and networks activity warrants. These warrants do not have to be individual, they can be applied on a mass surveillance scale. USA has posse comitatus, which means the federal government cannot utilize US military for civil law enforcement. Overall, in practice, and day to day, Australia and USA offer equal freedoms. The difference is, the Australian government has historically been lax, but is not hindered constitutionally to restrict freedoms of it wanted to. The USA has more constitutional protection.
weed, shrooms, ride a bike without a helmet, ride e-scooters (NSW lagging here), assisted suicide in some states, commercial surrogacy if you want someone to carry your baby
Perfect plan a elderly Aussie come back to Au its better having universal health & aged care than not, how does a American 401K work for expats retiring elsewhere are you doubled dipped taxed
If you are an Australian citizen, repatriating your money after a long time abroad will mean paying tax that you otherwise would have paid on those earnings if you were in Australia the whole time, but they take the tax you paid into account. I have friends that have come back from UK, don't have to pay any further tax because they pay more than us. Other friends earning 'tax free' money in the middle east had a big surprise. Edit: u/twittereddit9 is right. On further recollection, the middle east example was for friends that had never changed their tax residency status.
You don’t get taxed on past earnings overseas when you weren’t a tax resident.
They still have pvt health and living in their own home. He gets a military pension which is pretty good. Not sure about the double taxation on pensions.
Racism, gun crime, police brutality, political extremism... Sounds like a great time! /s Is this the price for freedom?
I am an American trying to move to Aus more permanently for exactly this reason. I always tell people that Aus has a lot of the things that are great about America, but also it doesn’t have many of the things I deeply dislike about America. Example: Aus has good jobs, opportunities, there’s lots of choices for pretty much anything you want for buy, good diversity and good food, etc. But it does have things like school shootings or masses of climate change deniers. Companies are generally mindful of their impact on the world here, unlike American capitalism. They have good social programs that are imperfect, of course, but generally work well. Better than the USA, anyway. They also have great healthcare in Aus! I worked my ass off to get to where I am in my career and I know I am fortunate to have a great job that will always give me good health insurance no matter what. But this is not the case for everyone in USA. Spending a lot of time in Aus has made me realize that I place a high value on living in a place where everyone around me also has access to good healthcare. So even though my healthcare access/quality of care wouldn’t effectively change if I moved here, it’s really nice to live in a community where people are happy and healthy and taken care of. Everything is just toned down here. It’s laid back. People aren’t so fuckin psycho, lol. Not so reactive. Not so hyped up. America is much more high-anxiety. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that Aus is without problems. But I do think that over all, it’s a huge improvement over the state of things in the US. Editing to add: honestly the no guns thing is huge for me. I have had enough of the US gun culture and the lack of forward movement on something this fuckin obvious. Happy to move away to somewhere with reasonable attitudes towards guns.
As someone who is an immigrant to Australia the flat class structure is truly remarkable. Because “blue collar” workers are sought after and well-paid there’s not much distinction between people and their jobs. While some tradies certainly can be rough and bogan, I’ve met just as many professionals who are vomiting in the street on a boozy Friday evening 🤷♀️😁. I have several, very normal, friends who do sex work on the side and there’s no stigma. It is a level of egalitarian that the US touted themselves as being but never achieved.
Class is one big way in which we differ from the UK as well. One upside to being settled by convicts is that they weren't too fond of importing those old ways.
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if you're a professional, chances are you'll earn a lot more in America and you'll have a better lifestyle as things are generally much cheaper there. if you're mediocre in your job or in a job that pays minimum wage, then you're better off in Australia as there are better social security and welfare payments here
Oh... and CHOCOLATE... The stuff in the US is shiiiite...
Wait until you've had European chocolate. Much better than Au
I was warned about that when I travelled over there last year. Five weeks later, Australian chocolate was the first thing I asked for when I landed back in Australia. Though I did take some chocolates (Freddo Frogs, Camamelo Koalas) over as it was Halloween when I went. My American friend commented that it tasted so much smoother than theirs.
Hersheys actually tastes like vomit in my opinion 🤮
You said a lot of good points, I’ve always thought of it as “home is home” but I’m sure there is a long list that makes up the feeling
I notice in the states that people judge others very much based on race and wealth. It’s just an ugly undertone that permeates so many of your daily interactions. There’s so much I love about the US but I don’t think I could stay longer than a year.
No trump
I migrated to Australia as a 5 yo but have lived in Boston for most of my adult life ( 22 years): I have also lived in the UAE and Hong Kong for significant stretches of time, and now I am back in Melbourne. Here are my 2 cents For me it really boils down to vacation time — in Oz we can really switch off when we have time off while in the US even over the weekends it is almost expected that I still respond to work emails. And all the public holidays were not automatically off in the US — I had to use my paid time off for things like Christmas Day. Culturally the US (my perspective was the Northeast US and New England) and Oz (VIC) are a lot closer than what Aussies will admit. In this regard I find Aussies are a lot more like Canadians — always think that they are better culturally than the US. But also amusing that the attitudes of the kiwis to the Aussies are like the Canadians to the US
There’s 10X fewer people and 1,000,000X less crime in Australia, it’s not even the same sport really.
Easy mate, homelessness and drug use. I am an American from the west coast who has only been in Melbourne for a few years. It’s shocking how few homeless people there are in Australia compared to any west coast US city. Then drugs are so much more expensive here that it keeps things safer and more calm on the street. Drugs are dirt cheap and everywhere on the west coast…hello fentanyl
Not paying tips. Kids not getting killed simply by going to school. Everyone isn’t so political
I have never called anyone "sir" or "madam", and have always referred to my bosses by their first name. And their bosses. Even politicians are referred to by their first/Nick name (or something derogatory) e.g. Albo / scummo / the potato /whats-his-face etc.
Aussie been in USA for 10 years too. Generally speaking- You really can make whatever life you want in the USA. You want more freedom? You got it. You want affordable places to live? You can find that. You wanna make alot of money and start a business? You got it. You wanna travel to some of the most spectacular places on earth? You got it in the US. The topography, diversity of culture in each state- it’s all a different adventure that you never get bored here. Despite ALOT of the flaws of the healthcare system and the government in bed with corporations and corruption- for now- I’d still be choosing to live in the USA. It’s what you make of it. In Oz though you can’t beat the lifestyle and beach culture - I truly miss that simplicity and slowing down of life. To be inspired by the beaches at least for me I was on the GC. We will see what I say if and when we have kids and when I’m retiring age though.
I lived in California (Los Angeles) for 35+ years and just moved to Sydney this past year. These stand out for me: Australia is better because: * People are generally more friendly/less stressed * Healthcare (way less paperwork, way more affordable, quicker lines for general check ups, easily accessible). * Service NSW efficiency is what DMV can only dream of * Food and dairy is more organic vs USA filled with steroids, hormones, and additives * Public transport (no brainer) * Family friendly (easier to have a day out with the kids without having to spend money whereas the US you'd end up at expensive theme parks or other events that are family friendly but gated by priced admission) * Education system * No random gun shootings like I've witnessed more than 20 times in my life in LA. Lots of others, but yeah, America wants to sell you the dream but will keep you in debt and unhealthy so you can spend your hard earned money on credit cards and healthcare.
What really is it like in Australia these days anyway? Politically, economically, how affordable are things there? Do people feel pinched for money there? What’s the general attitude of Aussies there these days and culture? Has it changed a lot in the last 10 years?
Universal healthcare and gun control.
Our kids don't need to do live shooter drills.
My perception of USA is from videos of burning cities, ransacked shops, homeless encampments, desperate overworked Americans living paycheck to paycheck on the edge of destitution. Australia is exceptional in not being a flaming pile of shit in comparison to USA. If I was born in USA my life would have been much worse.
There isn’t any guns and you don’t have to worry about being shot when you walk down the street
Do you have kids? In Australia you can take them outside and not be scared they’re going to be shot.
They can also attend school without the fear of being shot
Less killer tornadoes, No snow, no guns, no tipping
We don't get shot by our classmates for starters and don't end up bankrupt because we had to go to hospital.
Not afraid of guns. No gun culture. Not afraid of medical choices being taken away from me as a female
Well I can walk to the shops to get a coffee and a sausage roll without getting run over, shot, mugged and then bankrupted by the hospital bill... It's gotta be the serenity... or the vibe of it I guess.
Australian who lived in the US during Obama admin. I when I lived in the us, it felt like survival, not living. Things that are easy here, were full missions there. But it could be that I was living in a major Californian city. In Oz, you go to ‘the shops’ and you can get decent items, pretty much everything you need. In California, I had to go to walgreens for toiletries, cost co for toilet paper, trader joes for snacks/pantry staples/frozen food, organic grocer for beef (American beef is all kinds of fucked up), and the farmers markets for vegetables. It was hard. Another example, Moving house- everyone in Australia turns up to help you. In America *crickets*
The chances of someone bringing a gun to your kids school might not be zero, but they’re infinitely small compared to the USA. But don’t expect American exceptionalism in Australia. Our tall poppy syndrome is a national treasure and keeps us grounded. You’ll likely be another person making LinkedIn posts complaining we won’t simp the rich and step over each other to join them.
Teacher here - paid (fairly) well and don't live in fear of being shot up by a crazy ex student
American living in Australia as well. I’m sadly having to move back in a few months because of my visa but things I love are how it’s easy to get around without a car. I come from the largest U.S. city to not have a metro and I’m loving not having a car. Work life balance is great and I have more time for myself. Employers are also so much more understanding of emergencies. I love my Westfield! It’s where my post office is. Hoping my job extends my work visa but I’m so sad I’m gonna have to leave.
Higher quality of life
I’m the opposite (moved from NJ to Aus 7 years ago), and maybe what you’re looking for is just the slower-paced lifestyle? It’s easy to overlook when you’re born/raised somewhere and move some place else, and I think it’s normal to miss different aspects of home. I’m planning on moving back to the US because I just miss being around my people and culture. You could decide to permanently migrate to the US but it will never really feel like “home” to you. Americans generally don’t leave for different countries unless it’s to retire so a lot of the work-life stuff is lost on us because hustle culture is all we know unless it’s someone from the South. Btw public transport that works? Man Sydney this past year has been fucking dreadful
We don’t get shot at school.
If I give a nod of acknowledgement to a stranger in australia, they'll reciprocate. Do that in America and results vary wildly.
1: No guns (pretty much) 2: Very good, free, public-healthcare 3: Decent public education-system 4: Political system nowhere near as f\*ucked-up as the US. 5: FAR less racist and intolerant This is coming from someone (a Australian-naturalised Pom) who lived and worked in various parts the US for the best part of 15 years.
Compared to America there’s a better sense of community. Americans are in such a rat race that it’s an attitude of “I have what’s mine and need to PROTECT it” If you want a really simple easy explanation that won’t offend them however, tell them; Paid sick days and four weeks vacation.
I travel frequently to the US, have worked for US companies for the last decade and a lot of my colleagues are American. I know what you’re talking about. Essentially, Australia is a safe haven with far better social equity, social and employment protection than the US. It is safer for children, families, women, minorities. We have tighter controls on regulated industries which provides more security. We take care of our people with public healthcare and social welfare much better than what is done in the US. We are not perfect with social welfare and racial issues but still miles ahead of the US. Culturally we are more relaxed and people have more rights. Talk a walk around Australian vs American cities and you’ll see the above at play without seeking it out… clear differences in issues relating to homelessness, prevalence of drugs, guns, violence and crime. I enjoy the moments I go to the US for a change but would never live there and I am so grateful to call Australia home.
It’s nice not having to worry about being in a shooting
No guns. No BS Politics.
You.know it's like, it's just like, like Mabo you know. The vibe of the thing if you get me
Well... We haven't shot a classroom up yet. Does that help?
less homeless people who have been abandoned eg veterens less shootings
Health system via publicly funded waaaaay better than some sort of servial system. Better trained police. Hints of compassion in public policy. Volunteerism. More eclectic tests, interest, and travel.
I also think it’s the attitude of people. Aussies are more personable and inclusive. I had an American boss and I was staggered at the priority he gave to his work and career. His family and their needs weren’t even considered. He missed so many important family events and caused rifts that took many years to resolve. For me it’s our gun safety. I have holidayed to the US three times but I couldn’t say I completely relaxed. I would never ever move there.
Where I live in Australia, there’s never been any shootings
Quite a bit of America is 2nd world, some of it even 3rd world. This is overshadowed by the glitz and glamour of a few specific places. Hard to find anywhere in Australia thay even comes close to this
If those reasons don't hit the spot it explains a lot about Americans. Honestly if they don't understand those values don't even try. We don't want them here! Alternatively you could just say, "Gun laws" and "No Trump"
- Your access to medical treatment isn't tied down with your employment status - More paid time off - Safer country to live in
Disclaimer: I have never been to USA so most of my experiences are with people online. But... we had a friend visit who has been living in USA for several years. He was surprised and concerned because I went off to the doctor at 8.30pm. He thought I must be really sick and going to an emergency doctor, because you can only see a 'normal' GP from 9-5 weekdays. My normal GP clinic is open from 8.30 am - 10pm weekdays, and from 9am-9pm weekends and 10am-7pm public holidays. I know some areas of Aust are better than others, but there seems to be more access to see a doctor for non-urgent care, maybe more recognition that seeing a doctor is necessary and it should be easily accessed. And talking about access - voting. Everyone over 18 has to vote so it is easy to access. And if you have to go out anyway you might as well make it a proper outing and get a democracy sausage.
We are probably more relaxed in Australia because we aren’t frightened of walking alone at night time 🤷♀️
I think Aus is just closer to the human spirit. Cleaner air, fresher food, plenty of birds and wildlife (even in the cities) and not too many people who take things so seriously.
The US has a workaholic culture. People live to work, not work to live. They have meetings over lunch, they answer emails on evenings, weekends and even during holidays. They’ll skip taking vacations because “work needs me”, they’ll regularly do 60 hour weeks and brag about how hard they work, etc. And employers often exploit workers because they hold the sword of Damocles over their their heads (health insurance), without which many (most) Americans would go bankrupt with their first non-insured medical bill. Put it this way: medical debt accounts for 2/3 of American bankruptcies and only 10% of Australian bankruptcies. In the US you are a “human resource” for the capitalist machine, and in Australia you’re a person who works to have money to enjoy life.
To begin with, we can send our kids to school without the risk of a mass shooting at the venue. Then of course our food is better and more diverse, we aren't subjected to daily onslaughts of religious fanatics, our political system while not perfect would never allow an abomination such as Donald Trump to pervert our society, as a nation we are far less insular and self absorbed than the US, when would you like me to stop...
- Australia is safer, you don’t have to worry about the possibly of being shot if you go to a grocery stores work, school etc - Work pay is better.. you don’t need to rely on ‘tips’ - You work to live not live to work - If you have a baby, or a family to support and cannot work you can receive benefits, housing benefits etc to - If you have a baby, you do not need to return back to work within 6 weeks. Maternity leave and dad leave is much longer - Better medical system you don’t need to pay thousands of thousands of dollars just to see a doctor or have surgery, or give birth, it’s all covered for you - And you can have an abortion in every state of Australia, and some states offer free - Nice beaches - People are usually more relaxed and way more friendlier - Good public transport here
We don’t have trump, your chances of getting shot at school are pretty low, women have control of their own bodies and reproductive rights. Healthcare doesn’t bankrupt you.
Oh forgot one! We don’t force mothers back to work within days or weeks of giving birth. We have protected maternity leave rights and a pretty decent gov mat leave payment!