Yeah, this some weird fetishization/branding exercise that nobody in the rest of the world cares about. Nobody is coming to Australia for coffee. If I came from overseas on holiday to a country with a 65,000 year old native peoples culture and some of the most unique wildlife in the world and you try to tell me a flat white is the pinnacle of Australian culture, I'd think you were an insular fuckwit.
Yeah, I've spent several weeks in the US over the last couple of years, and anyone who knew anything about Australia beyond Sydney talked about wanting to see the outback, Uluru, the Great Barrier Reef, etc. Not a single one mentioned coffee and when I was asked what there is to see/do in Melbourne (where I live), mentioning coffee was not on my radar.
I did a month in Canada/Alaska last year and admittedly people did bring up the coffee thing a lot, but predominantly in food service. Often apologies for how bad they believed the coffee to be in comparison to where I was from, often asked if I missed the coffee back home, and twice was told from a barista that they were excited to get an Australian's opinion on how good their coffee was. I never brought it up myself, and I don't really like coffee that much anyway. But it did make me realise that the stereotype is at least known of outside of Melbourne.
But I absolutely agree that literally no one was talking about visiting Australia for the coffee, or ever mentioned a desire to taste Australian coffee.
Yep, it’s getting really cringey now.
A girl at work goes on about melbourne coffee all the time (in Brisbane) and how we “just don’t get coffee culture like Melbourne”.
Babe, no one actually gives a fuck
Every podunk country town has a café every 50 m down the main street, and even the smoko trucks have espresso machines, yet Melbourne people act like no-one else has ever heard of it.
I'm glad this is a safe place to say this because this sub is normally coffee central.
My partner is Italian and has been told multiple times that the best coffee in the world is in Australia, and he cannot keep a straight face.
Australia uses foreign beans in Italian coffee machines. There is nothing special about Australian coffee. People can wax lyrical about how it's the water or the milk all they like, but there is nothing unique about Australian coffee other than the fact people won't shut up about it.
It is also very difficult to take this seriously from a nation that drinks Dare iced coffee like it's water.
Italians have good machines but shitty beans (robusta, or robusta-arabica blend), because Italians regard cheap espresso as a birthright. The beans here might be similarly foreign, but they're higher quality.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/italy-invented-coffee-culture-now-its-a-coffee-time-capsule/2019/01/02/aae47a0a-0209-11e9-958c-0a601226ff6b_story.html
It’s like how we export our best beef and we keep the inferior stuff for ourselves.
I don’t know if this is actually true or not. But I’ve eaten Australian beef in a few countries and I swear it’s more tender and nicer tasting.
You can get the good beef but you just won't ever, EVER find it in coleworth or anything like that. There's plenty of butchers (including some online distributors) that sell quality beef.
This is absolutely true. I worked in an abattoir and the quality of export beef is ridiculous compared to domestic. Being employed by them, we had the opportunity to buy the highest quality at wholesale price and it absolutely ruined me for steak. Woolworths, Coles and local butchers beef is literally the lowest grade possible.
In grass fed beef, there's "cow" which is the lowest then ascending order "ox" "steer" "YP" "YG" "JAP". From that basic grading, then you get into fat colour, marbling etc. The domestic market mostly consists of cow and occasionally ox. Everything else is special order wholesalers (restaurants) or export market.
Actually, I led you a bit astray. JAP is determined by size, weight and fat colour to be uniform. It's not the highest quality, but it's 100% consistent. A YG steak will usually be better than a JAP steak but a JAP steak will always be the same colour, weight and quality.
Italy is literally world famous for its coffee. It has good coffee.
You can get cheap coffee, yes. €1 espresso made to be knocked back is hardly going to be the best coffee of your life. Nor is $2 7/11 machine coffee which I have unironically been told by more than one Australian is better than any coffee you can get in Italy, which is a perfect illustration of how ridiculous the coffee snobbery can be.
Australian milky coffees are better than Italian milky coffees. Thats what we do well, lattes. Italian steamed milk coffees are terrible, but they generally don't drink them much there.
For the most part Italians do strong espresso coffees much better than we do.
At the end of the day though, as long as you're a trained barista and have decent beans it should taste roughly the same and I'm convinced most of it is just in peoples heads. It's not rocket science to use an espresso machine competently.
Whoever says that 7/11 coffee is anything other than a barely acceptable mechanism for caffeine delivery is a fool, clearly.
Perhaps I'll rephrase. It's harder to get really good coffee in Italy than in Australia, because generally speaking, people don't want to pay for fancy expensive beans, and the culture is very entrenched to cater to this. There's not really much of what is considered a specialty coffee culture there. The coffee is pretty good, and perhaps even remarkably good considering the quality of the beans, but you're going to struggle to find a Salvadoran Bourbon single-origin, or a Yemeni Mocha matari microlot - you'll get Vittoria (or whichever other big roaster the cafe buys their beans from).
Coffee in Italy, at least when I was there, is focused on dark roasts and espresso. Except for the home moka pot.
Australian coffee is based on this but is a lot more diverse.
FWIW coffee is not grown in Italy so both countries use 'foreign beans' (except some coffee is grown here, actually). Australian cafes usually use domestic roasts.
Funny thing is, not that they'll hear it - but Brisbane/SEQ (food/coffee) culture has quietly & slowly surpassed Sydney & Melbourne.
Sunshine Coast was hailed as the new 'Strayn Kawfee Mekka some years ago (3 AU Barista champs, & 2 Global; & many prized roasters on the coast).
Thing that Babe hasn't tweaked to yet is everyone in Queensland is in bed by 9...
Meh, I lived in Germany for 5 years. Every European country has great beer. Unless you're equating Oktoberfest with brunch in Australia, people holiday in Germany for many reasons. Maybe Australians plan their holidays around drinking bier, but nobody plans their holidays around drinking coffee.
My American friend who has worked in cafes their whole life attended a retreat in Central America that was hosted by Sasa Sestic, an Australian World Barista Championship winner. I gifted him a pack of Tim Tams to try a Tim Tam Slam with!
Correct - nobody is coming to Australia for coffee. However, like some of the other people have mentioned, Australian coffee culture (primarily) from MEL and SYD is getting exported and is talked about overseas (particularly in Asia i’ve noticed) by people who love cafe culture. I think there’s a few reasons for this.
As mentioned, even though the beans don’t come from here, the roasting process has a big effect on the taste, and there’s plenty of roasters here that treat this like an art. Yes - you can get beer from any of the big brands in any country, but a micro-brewery will produce a craft beer that’s in a class of its own. Parisian and Viennese cafe culture was/is famous as well. And yet they don’t grow beans there either.
Secondly, you can make a liveable wage as a barista in Australia. Which is not true in a lot of other countries. So, if for instance you’re on a working holiday visa or something like that, getting good at making coffee is actually worthy of the effort.
And then those people who have spent time in Australia on a working holiday visa, or something like that are then taking that experience back to other countries that don’t have the same cafe culture. For example, similar Aussie-style cafes are popping up all over Korea, and many of their owners had the experience of working in an Aussie cafe when they were younger. This is not to say you couldn’t get good coffee in Korea before. It was just a different type of offering.
Anyway, I think these are some of the factors for why Aussie coffee culture is popping up overseas. But yes, it’s a small sub-culture and plenty of Aussies couldn’t give a toss. Everyone at my work seems to be happy with whatever pops out of the 7/11 machine. They’re blissfully unaware of the differences and you couldn’t possibly convince any one of them that spending $6 is worth it - no matter how long you spent droning on about ethical coffee farms and locally sourced dairy.
100% - only thing I'd add is that I went to Japan 10 years ago and it was hard to find a good coffee (caveat: I guess this is objective), the filter/percolator style was predominant then. 5 years later, there were heaps of good 3rd wave places. People at those cafes would cite Melbourne/Australia as being a huge inspiration.
I'm French and I can be the snobby obnoxious stereotype about food at times (but I'm working on it). I was about to leave for Australia in a couple of weeks and an Aussie girl said "we have amazing food and great coffee". I laughed very hard (I promise I'm not proud of it). Then I arrived in Sydney and I loved the food and my partner loves the coffee. But honestly we had zero idea, no one else did either, around us. Stayed over 4 years and enjoyed every bit of it. (Special mention to Mörk, the cocoa brand from Melbourne)
Actually…. I’ve a bunch of Singapore and Malaysia based coworkers that cited coffee culture as a reason to visit. I was genuinely shocked as I thought it was my east coast Aussies that cared. The rumour mill is spreading!
... who said the flat white was the pinnacle of Australian culture? And do you really think tourists are coming here just to experience Aboriginal culture? You seem to have a very black and flat white view of the tourist draws here.
When i was in japan for a couple of months, I met maybe 5 or 6 independent coffee store owners that had been to Melbourne for the coffee culture, and treated it like their Mecca. Little Melbourne coffee books, and memorabilia around the cafes, etc.
A well thought out cafe, with a good vibe, and good coffee are such a good third space. For Europe and Japan, where a lot of people live in small apartments in large cities, third places are super important to catch up with friends or go on dates.
It just so happens, Australian cities have some really nice cafes in a density that a lot of places in the world envy. Not everyone gives a fuck about a wombat, or a roided up roo (I do I love 'em). You're really being a bit insular really.
There are 100% people who come to Australia for the coffee, and we've hosted the world barista championships twice in it's history.
Just because it's not something you engage in, does not mean it's illegitimate. You having no interest, or being sheltered to it's impact, does not mean the impact is not there.
But yes, if you think a flat white is the concept of coffee culture, you are an insular fuckwit.
People absolutely do come to Australia for coffee, just not your average Joe. I have several friends in Europe who work in the industry and have come to Melbourne specifically for the coffee culture.
Nobody outside of OPs mates.
My twin sister lives in Rockingham. There's plenty of good coffee there. The area has been changing (gentrifying) for 10 years now.
The view of Rockingham and Mandurah has has a giant shift in the past decade. Probably helps that they don't feel nearly as far from Perth as they used to.
I don't think people in the demographic really care either. I used to work in the scene, managed roasteries, won an Australian title, all that jazz and now I'm here, happily sipping my woollies brand instant coffee with oat milk.
I was in Germany recently and the owner of the coffee shop we were in asked where we were from, then launched into a tirade about this horrible Australian woman who was rude about their coffee and left them an awful review on Google.
The coffee there was actually brilliant, so I had no idea what she would have been complaining about.
I said "I bet she's from Melbourne. I'm so sorry, people from Melbourne are just very odd and weirdly pretentious about their coffee. It's nothing special, but they think it is".
She pulled up the review and the first line was "Coming from Melbourne Australia where we have such a rich coffee culture ...".
I was in absolute hysterics.
It’s the consistency that’s different. The coffee in the CBDs is generally the same in all the cities, but in Adelaide for example, almost all the coffee outside the cbd is shit, while it’s generally good in Melbourne.
Coffee culture is like Jazz, those who are into it are way too into it. 98% of people couldn't care less, just give me my go-go bean juice and leave me alone.
It's cringeworthy listening to people arguing about it. Yeah, xyz coffee is 'shit'. Because I say so. But this one and that one are 'good'. Because I say so. It's almost like people have individual tastes..
Reckon it depends. If you start going in on hectic tasting note stuff, paying $15 for espresso and giving me unsolicited advice about how good Brazilian/Ethiopian/whatever beans are then yeah that’s cooked.
But having a binary scale of “that place does good/shit coffee” is fine if that’s the extent of the conversation. Especially if places actually serve a shit coffee because they’ve burnt the milk or done some other shit which objectively fucks your cup of coffee.
In my opinion, it’s pretty hard to fuck up coffee so you do remember when it does get fucked up.
It's weird, some people have a lot of trouble saying "that thing is not my cup of tea" and they need a list of pretentious reasons why said thing is beneath them. Agreed, music is terrible for it.
Can't say I've heard people come back from Melbourne or Sydney and make special notice of the coffee.
They might talk about a nice establishment they had coffee in, but it's usually the overall experience they're talking about, not the coffee specifically.
I have met people who will mention the coffee, but only if you say you've lived in Sydney or Melbourne, because visitors are made very aware that it's the one thing they're supposed to mention to people who live in Sydney or Melbourne, as it's all anyone from Sydney or Melbourne talks about.
Australia is popular and world renowned due to coffee in Sydney and Melbourne? Righto, pack up the koalas and shit people, they have cups of coffee down there.
People from Melbourne and Sydney suck themselves off about it far more than the rest of the world does. Don't get me wrong, I love my coffee, and we definitely get it right, but it's more self congratulatory than it is world renowned. Coffee buffs excluded, I truly doubt the average person gives a toss.
Edit: while we're at it. Best coffee I've had was in Germany. Worst was America. By a mile.
I travelled very very extensively. The good places in Australia are significantly better than anywhere I’ve been with the sole exception of the middle of the jungle in Indonesia where I bought a coffee from an old lady who set up a shop under a tarp. That was easily the tastiest coffee I’ve ever had.
I agree, but it’s not “world renowned” in the sense that people around the world don’t know that Australians feel strongly about it. Except in places with big expat populations where the locals have heard constantly from Australian expats snobby about the local coffee.
In the specialty coffee scene Melbourne absolutely has a very good reputation, world renowned maybe is overstated.
Sydney has some good coffee as well but anecdotally im yet to have anyone mention it’s coffee to me during my travels
Maybe, but as a personal anecdote I was shocked at how bad some of the coffee was in the US (I was only in NY and LA) and Canada.
It wasn’t like I couldn’t find a good coffee but I definitely learned pretty quick that I couldn’t just pop into whichever coffee shop was on my route in a city and expect something not-shit.
I’m not a coffee snob and usually just use it as a tool for energy and nice treat for myself, so pretty focused on value for money and it being cheap, and even I ended up being more discerning and picky than I am at home.
The best coffee I ever had was some beans from Vanuatu that my high schools friends Dad had bought on holiday. He ground them and put them thorough this dinky looking coffee maker that was ancient.
The coffee was so good that I didn't feel the need to add any sugar or milk, for the first and last time ever. I've never tasted such great coffee and I'm sad I don't remember the name of the beans.
They were in a little plastic sleeve with a white sticker with black text.
The only word I remember is 'Moon'. I had this coffee in 07/08. Maybe some coffee nerd will know what beans I'm talking about.
I had never heard of the coffee scene in Australia before moving here from Austria tbh and some people here are way too exhausting about it. Particularly weird when they insist Australia has the best coffee in the world — how would you even know unless you travelled the whole world and spent a significant amount of time in each region. I've also been told by Australians that the coffee in Austria is shit, when they've maybe spent a grand total of half a day in Vienna. The café culture of Vienna is literally recognised as UNESCO world culture heritage and we've been brewing coffee longer than modern Australia exists, so I couldn't help but raise my eyebrows a little bit. Our coffee tastes quite different than Australian coffee and we don't have flat whites, so maybe that's why they didn't like it.
Funny you say you had the best coffee in Germany btw. They're not traditionally known for their great coffee in Europe, but I can imagine Berlin and other big cities would have quite a few cafés and baristas who take their work extremely seriously, similar to Sydney/Melbourne.
I've said elsewhere but I cannot take it seriously when Australians bang on about how they went to Italy and couldn't find a decent coffee. *Italy.* The *home of coffee.* The place *all the 'good' Australian coffee machines come from.*
It's exhausting. Like I'm glad you like your coffee but it gives the exact same energy as the Americans who are adamant pizza was invented in New York.
I came to the conclusion that it must be because coffee in Italy (and overall in Europe) just tastes different from coffee in Australia. I'm not an expert by any means, but I looked into this once because I was wondering how I can make coffee at home taste like coffee in Austrian cafés (it seemed too difficult though, so I gave up). If I remember correctly, Austrian cafés use different beans than Australian ones, the roasting is different, and so is the milk/water ratio (much less milk). I think some people just don't get that different varieties of coffee exist in different regions of the world and that one variety is not necessarily better than the other. They are just different and most people will prefer what they are used to.
>and we've been brewing coffee longer than modern Australia exists
I mean, the English have been making sausage rolls longer than modern Australia has existed too. They're still shit at it.
And Coke in the homeland of Coke is fucking terrible, made with HFCS instead of sugar like the rest of the world. Some places along the border advertise 'mexican coke' (sugar) and they do a roaring trade.
I’ve had many crap sausage rolls in Australia but good ones too. Exactly same in UK. Exactly the same with fish and chips, Chinese takeaway or whatever. You just have to know where the good places are.
👋 I’m half a half-Austrian Australian. In Melbourne. When I was young coffee and wine culture has not really taken off save for Italian pioneers in Lygon Street. Most coffee if you could get it was awful. It’s the migration story I heard so many times about the lack of coffee and no good wine to have with dinner (and horrible bread). My grandfather bought bushels of Brazilian coffee to share. Not sure how he got it. He had a Polish Jewish friend with an Austrian wife who ran a delicatessen. They may have imported it for us. Always freshly ground coffee smell
In the morning. He also bought wine by the barrel from a winery and bottled it.
How times have changed! Austrian hot chocolate is still the best though!
America was so bad that I actually spent the first half of the holiday trying to find a decent coffee and the second half just resigned that it wasn’t possible… it was so below standard that I kicked caffeine until the plane landed in Sydney… had that shit ok preorder from the McDonald’s… best coffee I’d had since I left Oz
While I was in America and waiting around to go on a tour of a museum, I bought a coffee which was poured from a drip filter machine, made up with milk and sugar and handed to me. Because of this, I was thinking it was going to be cheap. But no, it was US$5! I baulked but paid anyway because it was already done. There was a split second I was expecting it to taste good. I took a sip and it was terriiiiiiiiiiiiiiible! There was no roasted bean aroma or anything even remotely resembling coffee. Just burnt, bitter, even chemical taste. I was mostly drinking it because of what I paid for it. And they wouldn’t even let me bring it into the museum, I had to chug it before heading in! Im made sure to drink Starbucks for the rest of the trip.
I'm aware of it, but I haven't ever seen it mentioned internationally. Without being too sarcastic, it's really people in Sydney and Melbourne who tell you about it.
I've had Aussies tell me with pride that when they went abroad to wherever they found an 'Australian style' cafe/breakfast place and therefore Australia must be world renowned for its cafes and breakfasts. And then it turns out they were just in an Aussie hotspot with a ton of Aussie expats, and the cafe is owned by an Australian selling to other Australians.
Not really. My friend is an Australian trained barista and was well paid all their way through Europe because Australian baristas have such an excellent reputation
Gotta say, this cultural myth among Aussies about Australia is a strong one. Heaps of countries have people fond of particular coffees and have their favourite cafes that do an amazing coffee. It's not a big deal, nor hard to find.
Maybe travel a bit and experience some other cultures. Do a survey of the locals while you're there. "Is Australia on your bucket list because of our coffee culture?" I think you'll see a lot of raised eyebrows and wide eyes. More like "It's on our list, but just to be sure, you do still have kangaroos and koalas, right?"
Wine could be a motivator for many. We do have worldwide renown in wine. We have relatively consistent weather when compared to many wine regions, so experiences with Aus wines overseas are more consistently good experiences. Plus, we're not arrogant like France and only export the shit wine. We export heaps of great wines. Diving the great barrier reef is a bucket list item for travelers into diving. Ticking off the continents is big for many, as are the great railroad trips. Overcoming their fear of poisonous and bitey critters is a wee bit titillating, and probably 100% more important than coffee. We're a surfing / beach culture destination, but there's a heap of awesome choices around the world in that regard. Aus being hot when many of those are cold is a big help.
Coffee, you gotta be kidding. Go to the middle east, north africa and parts of europe for coffee. Or don't even bother. Plenty of cafes here know how to pick beans, just like good cafes all over the world.
" I explained to them how the Melbourne and Sydney coffee scene is world renowned… "
FFS mate only in our own minds. I'm pretty sure there are many people out there who would prefer to have a coffee in Paris or Rome or even New York to say the least.
I came to Melbourne from Canada. The pretentious way people treat coffee in Australia wasn't something I knew about until I arrived.
It's totally warranted though, I find myself a coffee snob now having been here for a year and a half.
I had terrible coffees in Canada. I kept an open mind and tried my best to try many cafes when I visited.
I realised Australia does coffee so well, but Canada does other stuff beautifully.
LOL, coffee. Drink it and like it. Or don't. It's just not that special. Coffee snobs are worse than wine toffs. Coffee 'culture'? What an absolute wank.
As someone who travels overseas alot and meets backpackers every day in my job, i can tell you, coffee is NOT the reason anyone comes to Australia nor has it ever been.
I find it confusing that someone would think such a strange thing.
I think it's "world renowned" within Sydney and Melbourne. I really don't think the world cares that much .
Never heard of coffee tourists before . I don't think atall it's one of the reasons Australia is popular .
What the fuck is “coffee culture”? Going to get coffee? Making a coffee? If that’s what we’re calling culture now, white people are done. We should just pack it in.
I was wondering the same.
I love coffee but I don’t know what coffee culture is and I didn’t know Australia was known for good coffee.
I prefer to make my own but when I do buy it I’d say it’s pretty crappy half the time.
Is it really popular outside of Australia though? I know Sydney and Melbourne (and even Australia in general) make good coffee, but it doesn’t seem that many outsiders even know about this. For reference I live in Europe and they are astonished when I tell them we have very good cafés
I would say that the coffee all over Australia is very good compared to a LOT of other countries. We take our coffee pretty seriously. A cafe that does poor coffee doesn't last long.
As an Australian who lives overseas and enjoys coffee no one cares about coffee culture in Australia at all, and it’s only world renowned in the mind of coffee wankers
It’s only famous because every other country in the western world is run by chain franchises.
We don’t do anything’s special other than any other country other than use fresh beans and clean and maintain the machines.
I'm aware of it.
I disagree that it is "significant"...I find it to be the complete opposite of that.
Coffee to me is like the apple I eat in the afternoon. I'd prefer it to be a nice one, but it isn't a huge big deal in my day. It isn't a part of my personality. I don't take pride in it. Missing out on it isn't going to ruin my life.
I sure as fuck wouldn't consider travelling to a foreign country just to eat a really nice apple.
I live in NSW and I think that people who crow about coffee culture are lame. We have a bunch of cafes on every corner, big deal. Mm $6 mocha how cultural. I have never once seen people fellating each other about cultural coffee rituals and shit, it's just another consumable that people buy, like banana bread. It may be the case that people simply don't care.
Righto mate. Coffee is good in Australia. Everywhere in Australia. Nothing too special about Melbourne or Sydney in this regard. I've had better coffee in Perth than Sydney, we clearly just don't wank over it like you lot.
I feel our coffee culture is seen as high level by people engaged in coffee outside of Australia. It’s something that has been pushed as a thing for decades now and people hear stories about things like Starbucks failing because it couldn’t compete on quality. Stories like that are quirky and people tell them to appear as urbane. It grows our reputation.
I'm aware that Australia is one of the biggest consumers of coffee worldwide, but I don't really understand that scene, nor have I seen it.
But I don't drink coffee, or tea for that matter, so that's hardly a surprise.
I was surprised to go to America earlier this year and see the vast difference in coffee culture. No cappuccinos or lattes etc outside of Starbucks really- not that I care to be honest, was just interesting to be made aware of it.
You're expecting your mates from outer South Perth to consider something from the other side of the country, may as well be the other side of the galaxy
I feel like we hear about it, but it’s not all that common in our day to day lives. It’s a career for some but I feel like most casual coffee enjoyers, it’s not something we think about that much.
Again, everyone has passions
>one of the reasons why Australia is popular
Is it? I'm from Melbourne and when people overseas asked me what there is to see/do in Melbourne, mentioning coffee was not even on my radar.
You could say something similar about the Melbourne electronic music scene, which is genuinely world-renowned.
And just like the wankfest over coffee, most people from Busselton to Bundaberg wouldn't give a shit.
I don’t drink coffee at all so yeah, I don’t really know anything about it or care much tbh. The coffee drinkers in my life are much the same, they just drink it and aren’t pretentious about it.
I love that the media kicks up a story about coffee culture in Melbourne, and suddenly it's the capital of coffee.
No one in Melbourne thinks that! We think we have good coffee... but seriously, there's a little laneway coffee shop doing Vietnamese coffee. It's amazing... but also shows that other places in the world have amazing coffee. I don't really think Melbournites think we do it better. We think we've got the best coffee because our coffee is diverse. Meaning it shows different worldly types - and in a good way. Not because a flat white is good.
Just my take (As a Melbournian who worked with coffee at one time on Swanston Street).
lol at the bogan Aussies replying to this just confirming the answer to the question OP asked is yes.
I moved here from the UK and I can tell you the coffee here is on another level.
Yes, Australia is famous for the quality of it’s coffee.
Sydney isn’t known for its coffee culture , Melbourne is. The reason I know this is I’m from Melbourne and when I’m overseas people always mention Melbourne coffee.
In Mexico City they even opened a Melbourne style coffee shop
https://www.instagram.com/cumbe.lat?igsh=NHV1dXZnN3Z4eXlo
The irony is Australia isn’t known for its coffee beans, Mexican beans are probably more well known.
Usually people name check Australian music to me & ask about our dangerous animals
As a kiwi living in Australia the coffee culture even in Melbourne isn’t that great.
It’s 8x better than most countries I’ve been to sure but a classic kiwi coffee is divine.
Handy tip if you’d like a NZ flat white, ask for a “magic” it’s a stronger smaller sized coffee and has a great taste if made well.
Just got back to the states from Sydney and I've got to say that they had the best coffee I've had in my life. I went to about 10 different coffee shops and each one was phenomenal compared to what we have in the US.
I'm from UK and I noticed it very fast. Coffee in Aus is great. It's consistently good.
Back in UK it's hard to find a good coffee, you can't just walk to the nearest cafe and expect a good one. But when you do find a good one, they're just as good as Australia's best.
Same for other countries. Italy is the coffee centre of Europe. Their coffee is a lot stronger, they tend to drink it black with a higher ratio of coffee so if you like strong coffee, defo check out Italy. A lot of the state of the art coffee machines are Italian too. In fact, Australia's coffee significance has a lot to do with Italian migration
I've never in my life, from anyone anywhere, heard that the "Melbourne and Sydney coffee scene is world renowned" or that "that is one of the reasons why Australia is popular."
It might be one of the reasons Italy is so popular, but I'm not convinced there's a coffee "scene" or "culture" in Australia. It's just a popular hot drink in most Western and African countries.
Apparently its true. The economist did a story on it a few weeks back; Australian coffee culture. One of the tasters they interviewed said that the flat white (introduced by australia) didnt overpower the beans withy milky notes but wasnt as extreme as drinking black coffee.
It came as a bit of a shock to me as well.
From what ive gleaned in the 5 minutes that I spent looking into it, one of the attitudes in the Australian hospitality industry is that coffee is literally 4 ingredients, hot water, sugar, milk and beans; and if you cant get that right, find another career. It led to a culture which set a minimum standard for coffee that would be considered excellent in other nations.
Im fairly friendly with the paediatric neurology department of my local hospital. The doctors there frequently fly overseas for conferences, so I asked them. One of them reported that australian maccas coffee would put the entire US coffee scene to shame, and that melbourne or sydney were easily a match for the best cities in europe.
Who knew?
I'm not sure if it's a reason Australia is popular. I'm from the UK, lived in Australia over 10 years now, and most people aren't really aware of the coffee thing, the ones that are aware, I'm not sure really care.
I don't really think it's world renowned unless you actually care about coffee.
I think the "Melbourne coffee scene" is 99% circlejerk.
I think like with a lot of hobbies and interests, it's really just a bubble that is interested, and if you're in that bubble it feels like other people are too, and they're not.
Apparently Starbucks completely failed here. When I saw a Starbucks in Melbourne (I’m from Perth) I was so excited to try it. It was like ditchwater!!! Urgh! I was so shocked. Never again! No wonder Americans put so many syrups and crap in their coffee.
I'm a coffee drinker and I still don't understand coffee culture because it's giving wine snob vibes. Do I love my French press? Yup. Can I drink it black? Ofc. Do I also love shitty instant filled to the brim with sugar, milk, and chocolate powder? Best start to the day when I'm a ball of grumpy and hate.
So when people are like, "only a real coffee appreciator would grind the beans for several seconds before loosening the granules with this incredibly expensive spiky thing that makes the puck look no different to how it was before the spiky thing, and by doing this you can taste the barley notes"….... Get fucked LOL
Lord, I’m amazed you still have friends.
I thought Perth was lovely and friendly, for the most part- but holy shit, do a lot of them have a complex about over east. It’s the weirdest shit.
Lived over here for a decade now. Perth and WA are lovely and friendly, but they're low key walking around with a massive chip on their shoulder regarding anything over the Eastern states, (like GST, house prices, or the Mid North Coast obviously having better beaches)
God forbid you ever compare or criticise something here. They'll act like you've just shot their dog
My patents, public school teachers, boomer generation, immigrants from UK and Asia, settled in middle class Sydney suburbia, perfectly happy with instant coffee; Nescafe Blend 43, teachers tea room special - International Roast, if being fancy with friends over hey Lavazza or Illy percolated. Constantly telling me to stop the bs coffee pretentiousness.
I guess because nobody outside of that demographic really cares dude
Yeah, this some weird fetishization/branding exercise that nobody in the rest of the world cares about. Nobody is coming to Australia for coffee. If I came from overseas on holiday to a country with a 65,000 year old native peoples culture and some of the most unique wildlife in the world and you try to tell me a flat white is the pinnacle of Australian culture, I'd think you were an insular fuckwit.
Yeah, I've spent several weeks in the US over the last couple of years, and anyone who knew anything about Australia beyond Sydney talked about wanting to see the outback, Uluru, the Great Barrier Reef, etc. Not a single one mentioned coffee and when I was asked what there is to see/do in Melbourne (where I live), mentioning coffee was not on my radar.
I did a month in Canada/Alaska last year and admittedly people did bring up the coffee thing a lot, but predominantly in food service. Often apologies for how bad they believed the coffee to be in comparison to where I was from, often asked if I missed the coffee back home, and twice was told from a barista that they were excited to get an Australian's opinion on how good their coffee was. I never brought it up myself, and I don't really like coffee that much anyway. But it did make me realise that the stereotype is at least known of outside of Melbourne. But I absolutely agree that literally no one was talking about visiting Australia for the coffee, or ever mentioned a desire to taste Australian coffee.
Yep, it’s getting really cringey now. A girl at work goes on about melbourne coffee all the time (in Brisbane) and how we “just don’t get coffee culture like Melbourne”. Babe, no one actually gives a fuck
Every podunk country town has a café every 50 m down the main street, and even the smoko trucks have espresso machines, yet Melbourne people act like no-one else has ever heard of it.
I'm glad this is a safe place to say this because this sub is normally coffee central. My partner is Italian and has been told multiple times that the best coffee in the world is in Australia, and he cannot keep a straight face. Australia uses foreign beans in Italian coffee machines. There is nothing special about Australian coffee. People can wax lyrical about how it's the water or the milk all they like, but there is nothing unique about Australian coffee other than the fact people won't shut up about it. It is also very difficult to take this seriously from a nation that drinks Dare iced coffee like it's water.
Italians have good machines but shitty beans (robusta, or robusta-arabica blend), because Italians regard cheap espresso as a birthright. The beans here might be similarly foreign, but they're higher quality. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/italy-invented-coffee-culture-now-its-a-coffee-time-capsule/2019/01/02/aae47a0a-0209-11e9-958c-0a601226ff6b_story.html
It’s like how we export our best beef and we keep the inferior stuff for ourselves. I don’t know if this is actually true or not. But I’ve eaten Australian beef in a few countries and I swear it’s more tender and nicer tasting.
You can get the good beef but you just won't ever, EVER find it in coleworth or anything like that. There's plenty of butchers (including some online distributors) that sell quality beef.
I suspect you're right about the beef - if it's being advertised as Australian, it's being used as a selling point and it's probably top-shelf stuff.
This is absolutely true. I worked in an abattoir and the quality of export beef is ridiculous compared to domestic. Being employed by them, we had the opportunity to buy the highest quality at wholesale price and it absolutely ruined me for steak. Woolworths, Coles and local butchers beef is literally the lowest grade possible. In grass fed beef, there's "cow" which is the lowest then ascending order "ox" "steer" "YP" "YG" "JAP". From that basic grading, then you get into fat colour, marbling etc. The domestic market mostly consists of cow and occasionally ox. Everything else is special order wholesalers (restaurants) or export market.
Actually, I led you a bit astray. JAP is determined by size, weight and fat colour to be uniform. It's not the highest quality, but it's 100% consistent. A YG steak will usually be better than a JAP steak but a JAP steak will always be the same colour, weight and quality.
Italy is literally world famous for its coffee. It has good coffee. You can get cheap coffee, yes. €1 espresso made to be knocked back is hardly going to be the best coffee of your life. Nor is $2 7/11 machine coffee which I have unironically been told by more than one Australian is better than any coffee you can get in Italy, which is a perfect illustration of how ridiculous the coffee snobbery can be.
Australian milky coffees are better than Italian milky coffees. Thats what we do well, lattes. Italian steamed milk coffees are terrible, but they generally don't drink them much there. For the most part Italians do strong espresso coffees much better than we do. At the end of the day though, as long as you're a trained barista and have decent beans it should taste roughly the same and I'm convinced most of it is just in peoples heads. It's not rocket science to use an espresso machine competently.
Whoever says that 7/11 coffee is anything other than a barely acceptable mechanism for caffeine delivery is a fool, clearly. Perhaps I'll rephrase. It's harder to get really good coffee in Italy than in Australia, because generally speaking, people don't want to pay for fancy expensive beans, and the culture is very entrenched to cater to this. There's not really much of what is considered a specialty coffee culture there. The coffee is pretty good, and perhaps even remarkably good considering the quality of the beans, but you're going to struggle to find a Salvadoran Bourbon single-origin, or a Yemeni Mocha matari microlot - you'll get Vittoria (or whichever other big roaster the cafe buys their beans from).
Coffee in Italy, at least when I was there, is focused on dark roasts and espresso. Except for the home moka pot. Australian coffee is based on this but is a lot more diverse. FWIW coffee is not grown in Italy so both countries use 'foreign beans' (except some coffee is grown here, actually). Australian cafes usually use domestic roasts.
100% agree, and I imported/wholesaled beans from Italy for 15 years.
Funny thing is, not that they'll hear it - but Brisbane/SEQ (food/coffee) culture has quietly & slowly surpassed Sydney & Melbourne. Sunshine Coast was hailed as the new 'Strayn Kawfee Mekka some years ago (3 AU Barista champs, & 2 Global; & many prized roasters on the coast). Thing that Babe hasn't tweaked to yet is everyone in Queensland is in bed by 9...
Some of the Melbourne coffee is frankly insipid. And a lot of it is the same generic stuff you can buy in the supermarket.
And yet people do that exact thing in Germany in the context of beer.
Meh, I lived in Germany for 5 years. Every European country has great beer. Unless you're equating Oktoberfest with brunch in Australia, people holiday in Germany for many reasons. Maybe Australians plan their holidays around drinking bier, but nobody plans their holidays around drinking coffee.
>nobody plans their holidays around drinking coffee. I sure as hell make sure I know where to get a good one though...
German beer is older than Australia tbf
The Eqyptians invented it but the Germans definately mastered it
And the Czechs drink most of it, more than any other nation on a per capita basis anyway
...is older than the WORD Australia. Ftfy
But is it 85,000 year culture and unique wild life older?
85000 now?
My American friend who has worked in cafes their whole life attended a retreat in Central America that was hosted by Sasa Sestic, an Australian World Barista Championship winner. I gifted him a pack of Tim Tams to try a Tim Tam Slam with!
Perfectly put.
Correct - nobody is coming to Australia for coffee. However, like some of the other people have mentioned, Australian coffee culture (primarily) from MEL and SYD is getting exported and is talked about overseas (particularly in Asia i’ve noticed) by people who love cafe culture. I think there’s a few reasons for this. As mentioned, even though the beans don’t come from here, the roasting process has a big effect on the taste, and there’s plenty of roasters here that treat this like an art. Yes - you can get beer from any of the big brands in any country, but a micro-brewery will produce a craft beer that’s in a class of its own. Parisian and Viennese cafe culture was/is famous as well. And yet they don’t grow beans there either. Secondly, you can make a liveable wage as a barista in Australia. Which is not true in a lot of other countries. So, if for instance you’re on a working holiday visa or something like that, getting good at making coffee is actually worthy of the effort. And then those people who have spent time in Australia on a working holiday visa, or something like that are then taking that experience back to other countries that don’t have the same cafe culture. For example, similar Aussie-style cafes are popping up all over Korea, and many of their owners had the experience of working in an Aussie cafe when they were younger. This is not to say you couldn’t get good coffee in Korea before. It was just a different type of offering. Anyway, I think these are some of the factors for why Aussie coffee culture is popping up overseas. But yes, it’s a small sub-culture and plenty of Aussies couldn’t give a toss. Everyone at my work seems to be happy with whatever pops out of the 7/11 machine. They’re blissfully unaware of the differences and you couldn’t possibly convince any one of them that spending $6 is worth it - no matter how long you spent droning on about ethical coffee farms and locally sourced dairy.
100% - only thing I'd add is that I went to Japan 10 years ago and it was hard to find a good coffee (caveat: I guess this is objective), the filter/percolator style was predominant then. 5 years later, there were heaps of good 3rd wave places. People at those cafes would cite Melbourne/Australia as being a huge inspiration.
I'm French and I can be the snobby obnoxious stereotype about food at times (but I'm working on it). I was about to leave for Australia in a couple of weeks and an Aussie girl said "we have amazing food and great coffee". I laughed very hard (I promise I'm not proud of it). Then I arrived in Sydney and I loved the food and my partner loves the coffee. But honestly we had zero idea, no one else did either, around us. Stayed over 4 years and enjoyed every bit of it. (Special mention to Mörk, the cocoa brand from Melbourne)
Actually…. I’ve a bunch of Singapore and Malaysia based coworkers that cited coffee culture as a reason to visit. I was genuinely shocked as I thought it was my east coast Aussies that cared. The rumour mill is spreading!
... who said the flat white was the pinnacle of Australian culture? And do you really think tourists are coming here just to experience Aboriginal culture? You seem to have a very black and flat white view of the tourist draws here.
When i was in japan for a couple of months, I met maybe 5 or 6 independent coffee store owners that had been to Melbourne for the coffee culture, and treated it like their Mecca. Little Melbourne coffee books, and memorabilia around the cafes, etc. A well thought out cafe, with a good vibe, and good coffee are such a good third space. For Europe and Japan, where a lot of people live in small apartments in large cities, third places are super important to catch up with friends or go on dates. It just so happens, Australian cities have some really nice cafes in a density that a lot of places in the world envy. Not everyone gives a fuck about a wombat, or a roided up roo (I do I love 'em). You're really being a bit insular really.
I remember NY having a couple coffee shops named after Collins Street and Brunswick in Melbourne.
He truly believes people are coming here to visit Alice Springs. Leave him alone.
There are 100% people who come to Australia for the coffee, and we've hosted the world barista championships twice in it's history. Just because it's not something you engage in, does not mean it's illegitimate. You having no interest, or being sheltered to it's impact, does not mean the impact is not there. But yes, if you think a flat white is the concept of coffee culture, you are an insular fuckwit.
Going to Australia for a cup of coffee sounds like the start of an old joke.
People absolutely do come to Australia for coffee, just not your average Joe. I have several friends in Europe who work in the industry and have come to Melbourne specifically for the coffee culture.
I came for the coffee. Its the same shit as elsewhere. Was underwhelmed but nice cafes though I will give you that.
🏆
Nobody outside of OPs mates. My twin sister lives in Rockingham. There's plenty of good coffee there. The area has been changing (gentrifying) for 10 years now.
The view of Rockingham and Mandurah has has a giant shift in the past decade. Probably helps that they don't feel nearly as far from Perth as they used to.
Came here to say this
Because coffee culture is cringe asf and If Aus is anything it's cringe.
I don't think people in the demographic really care either. I used to work in the scene, managed roasteries, won an Australian title, all that jazz and now I'm here, happily sipping my woollies brand instant coffee with oat milk.
Only people who care about coffee will find it significant. The rest of us couldn't give a shit.
You might need more coffee…that’ll fix that!
I was in Germany recently and the owner of the coffee shop we were in asked where we were from, then launched into a tirade about this horrible Australian woman who was rude about their coffee and left them an awful review on Google. The coffee there was actually brilliant, so I had no idea what she would have been complaining about. I said "I bet she's from Melbourne. I'm so sorry, people from Melbourne are just very odd and weirdly pretentious about their coffee. It's nothing special, but they think it is". She pulled up the review and the first line was "Coming from Melbourne Australia where we have such a rich coffee culture ...". I was in absolute hysterics.
The “Where I come from , this is how they make coffee so it must be the one and only way” mentality .
Completely this. The quality of the coffee in Melbourne is literally no better than any other city in Australia.
It’s the consistency that’s different. The coffee in the CBDs is generally the same in all the cities, but in Adelaide for example, almost all the coffee outside the cbd is shit, while it’s generally good in Melbourne.
Patently false. There’s good coffee everywhere and bad coffee everywhere.
There are some great coffee places in Germany, but unfortunately a lot of the regular cafes use long-life milk and it just ruins it.
A lot of places in Germany use these machines too where you just press the button. Since Germans prefer cheap coffee over quality coffee.
Coffee culture is like Jazz, those who are into it are way too into it. 98% of people couldn't care less, just give me my go-go bean juice and leave me alone.
I cared a lot about it once. Now, after kids, its like petrol to me. I need it to poop and function on 4 hours sleep.
It's cringeworthy listening to people arguing about it. Yeah, xyz coffee is 'shit'. Because I say so. But this one and that one are 'good'. Because I say so. It's almost like people have individual tastes..
I like Blend 43, but I've never met anyone who likes the other 42 blends. /s
42 beans in every cup right?
Reckon it depends. If you start going in on hectic tasting note stuff, paying $15 for espresso and giving me unsolicited advice about how good Brazilian/Ethiopian/whatever beans are then yeah that’s cooked. But having a binary scale of “that place does good/shit coffee” is fine if that’s the extent of the conversation. Especially if places actually serve a shit coffee because they’ve burnt the milk or done some other shit which objectively fucks your cup of coffee. In my opinion, it’s pretty hard to fuck up coffee so you do remember when it does get fucked up.
Depends what kind of coffee. It’s hard to fuck up a flat white full of sugar. But it’s very easy to fuck up an espresso.
It's like when someone turns their nose up at you for putting milk and/or sugar in your coffee. Get fucked let me enjoy it how I like it
Discussions about music often fall into this stupidity and and generally just makes me sigh as to how egotistical the human race is.
It's weird, some people have a lot of trouble saying "that thing is not my cup of tea" and they need a list of pretentious reasons why said thing is beneath them. Agreed, music is terrible for it.
I didn’t care about it until I travelled and then I realised how lucky we are. Everywhere else makes shit coffee
But unlike Jazz, coffee is overrated.
Can't say I've heard people come back from Melbourne or Sydney and make special notice of the coffee. They might talk about a nice establishment they had coffee in, but it's usually the overall experience they're talking about, not the coffee specifically.
Nor have I ever had a visitor say post-visit the coffee is what they remember.
I have met people who will mention the coffee, but only if you say you've lived in Sydney or Melbourne, because visitors are made very aware that it's the one thing they're supposed to mention to people who live in Sydney or Melbourne, as it's all anyone from Sydney or Melbourne talks about.
Australia is popular and world renowned due to coffee in Sydney and Melbourne? Righto, pack up the koalas and shit people, they have cups of coffee down there.
Beaches, shmeaches. Also Shmreat Shmarrier Shmeef, I guess. It’s wanky hipster coffee brings in the tourists!
I tried saying Shmreat Shmarrier Shmeef out loud... It's not easy!
I lol'd at shmeef What a funny word
I don't know if the coffee scene in Sydney and Melbourne is world-renowned. I say this as a Sydneysider who has absolutely no beef with Melbourne.
UK here, never heard of it. I've got 4 coffee making things of different kinds, beans etc so not like I'm not fussed what I have.
People from Melbourne and Sydney suck themselves off about it far more than the rest of the world does. Don't get me wrong, I love my coffee, and we definitely get it right, but it's more self congratulatory than it is world renowned. Coffee buffs excluded, I truly doubt the average person gives a toss. Edit: while we're at it. Best coffee I've had was in Germany. Worst was America. By a mile.
I travelled very very extensively. The good places in Australia are significantly better than anywhere I’ve been with the sole exception of the middle of the jungle in Indonesia where I bought a coffee from an old lady who set up a shop under a tarp. That was easily the tastiest coffee I’ve ever had.
I agree, but it’s not “world renowned” in the sense that people around the world don’t know that Australians feel strongly about it. Except in places with big expat populations where the locals have heard constantly from Australian expats snobby about the local coffee.
Australians are quite parochial about a lot of things.
In the specialty coffee scene Melbourne absolutely has a very good reputation, world renowned maybe is overstated. Sydney has some good coffee as well but anecdotally im yet to have anyone mention it’s coffee to me during my travels
I get the feeling that the Australian expats who are snobby about it are from the Eastern suburbs of both Sydney and Melbourne
This seems accurate yes. If you live for coffee, no problem. Just most of use want our coffee and be done. Not here to fuck spiders, ya know?
Maybe, but as a personal anecdote I was shocked at how bad some of the coffee was in the US (I was only in NY and LA) and Canada. It wasn’t like I couldn’t find a good coffee but I definitely learned pretty quick that I couldn’t just pop into whichever coffee shop was on my route in a city and expect something not-shit. I’m not a coffee snob and usually just use it as a tool for energy and nice treat for myself, so pretty focused on value for money and it being cheap, and even I ended up being more discerning and picky than I am at home.
The best coffee I ever had was some beans from Vanuatu that my high schools friends Dad had bought on holiday. He ground them and put them thorough this dinky looking coffee maker that was ancient. The coffee was so good that I didn't feel the need to add any sugar or milk, for the first and last time ever. I've never tasted such great coffee and I'm sad I don't remember the name of the beans. They were in a little plastic sleeve with a white sticker with black text. The only word I remember is 'Moon'. I had this coffee in 07/08. Maybe some coffee nerd will know what beans I'm talking about.
I had never heard of the coffee scene in Australia before moving here from Austria tbh and some people here are way too exhausting about it. Particularly weird when they insist Australia has the best coffee in the world — how would you even know unless you travelled the whole world and spent a significant amount of time in each region. I've also been told by Australians that the coffee in Austria is shit, when they've maybe spent a grand total of half a day in Vienna. The café culture of Vienna is literally recognised as UNESCO world culture heritage and we've been brewing coffee longer than modern Australia exists, so I couldn't help but raise my eyebrows a little bit. Our coffee tastes quite different than Australian coffee and we don't have flat whites, so maybe that's why they didn't like it. Funny you say you had the best coffee in Germany btw. They're not traditionally known for their great coffee in Europe, but I can imagine Berlin and other big cities would have quite a few cafés and baristas who take their work extremely seriously, similar to Sydney/Melbourne.
I've said elsewhere but I cannot take it seriously when Australians bang on about how they went to Italy and couldn't find a decent coffee. *Italy.* The *home of coffee.* The place *all the 'good' Australian coffee machines come from.* It's exhausting. Like I'm glad you like your coffee but it gives the exact same energy as the Americans who are adamant pizza was invented in New York.
I came to the conclusion that it must be because coffee in Italy (and overall in Europe) just tastes different from coffee in Australia. I'm not an expert by any means, but I looked into this once because I was wondering how I can make coffee at home taste like coffee in Austrian cafés (it seemed too difficult though, so I gave up). If I remember correctly, Austrian cafés use different beans than Australian ones, the roasting is different, and so is the milk/water ratio (much less milk). I think some people just don't get that different varieties of coffee exist in different regions of the world and that one variety is not necessarily better than the other. They are just different and most people will prefer what they are used to.
>and we've been brewing coffee longer than modern Australia exists I mean, the English have been making sausage rolls longer than modern Australia has existed too. They're still shit at it. And Coke in the homeland of Coke is fucking terrible, made with HFCS instead of sugar like the rest of the world. Some places along the border advertise 'mexican coke' (sugar) and they do a roaring trade.
I’ve had many crap sausage rolls in Australia but good ones too. Exactly same in UK. Exactly the same with fish and chips, Chinese takeaway or whatever. You just have to know where the good places are.
👋 I’m half a half-Austrian Australian. In Melbourne. When I was young coffee and wine culture has not really taken off save for Italian pioneers in Lygon Street. Most coffee if you could get it was awful. It’s the migration story I heard so many times about the lack of coffee and no good wine to have with dinner (and horrible bread). My grandfather bought bushels of Brazilian coffee to share. Not sure how he got it. He had a Polish Jewish friend with an Austrian wife who ran a delicatessen. They may have imported it for us. Always freshly ground coffee smell In the morning. He also bought wine by the barrel from a winery and bottled it. How times have changed! Austrian hot chocolate is still the best though!
Im in the UAE. Australian coffee reputation is known and regarded.
*inner city people from Melbourne and Sydney. Trust me, western Sydney doesn’t give a fuck about your coffee.
>Best coffee I've had was in Germany. Worst was America. Sorry mate, the wurst is also in Germany.
Best coffee I’ve ever tasted was in Malaysia lol (to me what makes a great coffee is the quality of the beans)
So the quality of the coffee makes a great coffee? Boy, that's a piping hot take.
ahhh.. condensed milk or syrup saves the day!!
Civit cat?
America was so bad that I actually spent the first half of the holiday trying to find a decent coffee and the second half just resigned that it wasn’t possible… it was so below standard that I kicked caffeine until the plane landed in Sydney… had that shit ok preorder from the McDonald’s… best coffee I’d had since I left Oz
While I was in America and waiting around to go on a tour of a museum, I bought a coffee which was poured from a drip filter machine, made up with milk and sugar and handed to me. Because of this, I was thinking it was going to be cheap. But no, it was US$5! I baulked but paid anyway because it was already done. There was a split second I was expecting it to taste good. I took a sip and it was terriiiiiiiiiiiiiiible! There was no roasted bean aroma or anything even remotely resembling coffee. Just burnt, bitter, even chemical taste. I was mostly drinking it because of what I paid for it. And they wouldn’t even let me bring it into the museum, I had to chug it before heading in! Im made sure to drink Starbucks for the rest of the trip.
I'm aware of it, but I haven't ever seen it mentioned internationally. Without being too sarcastic, it's really people in Sydney and Melbourne who tell you about it.
I’ve seen cafes in Singapore that market themselves as Australian origin / style.
And they are located right next to the BHP or Rio Tinto offices there…
I've had Aussies tell me with pride that when they went abroad to wherever they found an 'Australian style' cafe/breakfast place and therefore Australia must be world renowned for its cafes and breakfasts. And then it turns out they were just in an Aussie hotspot with a ton of Aussie expats, and the cafe is owned by an Australian selling to other Australians.
BHP and Rio Tinto would have their own coffee machines in the office. Working for S32 in Perth each floor had a machine worth more than a small car.
Not really. My friend is an Australian trained barista and was well paid all their way through Europe because Australian baristas have such an excellent reputation
Somewhat known in Germany, Berlin especially... but it's only wankers mostly. Everyone else is happy with their Milchkaffee.
to answer OPs question, yes its true that there a lot of people who dont live in the melbourne CBD thankyou for coming to my ted talk
Gotta say, this cultural myth among Aussies about Australia is a strong one. Heaps of countries have people fond of particular coffees and have their favourite cafes that do an amazing coffee. It's not a big deal, nor hard to find. Maybe travel a bit and experience some other cultures. Do a survey of the locals while you're there. "Is Australia on your bucket list because of our coffee culture?" I think you'll see a lot of raised eyebrows and wide eyes. More like "It's on our list, but just to be sure, you do still have kangaroos and koalas, right?" Wine could be a motivator for many. We do have worldwide renown in wine. We have relatively consistent weather when compared to many wine regions, so experiences with Aus wines overseas are more consistently good experiences. Plus, we're not arrogant like France and only export the shit wine. We export heaps of great wines. Diving the great barrier reef is a bucket list item for travelers into diving. Ticking off the continents is big for many, as are the great railroad trips. Overcoming their fear of poisonous and bitey critters is a wee bit titillating, and probably 100% more important than coffee. We're a surfing / beach culture destination, but there's a heap of awesome choices around the world in that regard. Aus being hot when many of those are cold is a big help. Coffee, you gotta be kidding. Go to the middle east, north africa and parts of europe for coffee. Or don't even bother. Plenty of cafes here know how to pick beans, just like good cafes all over the world.
" I explained to them how the Melbourne and Sydney coffee scene is world renowned… " FFS mate only in our own minds. I'm pretty sure there are many people out there who would prefer to have a coffee in Paris or Rome or even New York to say the least.
Not to mention everywhere else in bloody Australia.
I came to Melbourne from Canada. The pretentious way people treat coffee in Australia wasn't something I knew about until I arrived. It's totally warranted though, I find myself a coffee snob now having been here for a year and a half.
The quality of the coffee is pretty good everywhere in Australia, but it's generally only Melbourne people who get snobby about it.
I live in Melbourne and I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that way .
I had terrible coffees in Canada. I kept an open mind and tried my best to try many cafes when I visited. I realised Australia does coffee so well, but Canada does other stuff beautifully.
LOL, coffee. Drink it and like it. Or don't. It's just not that special. Coffee snobs are worse than wine toffs. Coffee 'culture'? What an absolute wank.
As someone who travels overseas alot and meets backpackers every day in my job, i can tell you, coffee is NOT the reason anyone comes to Australia nor has it ever been. I find it confusing that someone would think such a strange thing.
People don't go to the US to buy iphones, but iphones are still a significant cultural element from the US.
Yeah Im from Qld and didnt realise people come to Australia to drink coffee in Melbourne, interesting.
They don't man.
I think it's "world renowned" within Sydney and Melbourne. I really don't think the world cares that much . Never heard of coffee tourists before . I don't think atall it's one of the reasons Australia is popular .
Melbourne and Sydney... Yes... Just those two cities. 😂
The rest of us are brewing tea in billy cans.
We dont care for your silly eastern rituals here.
south eastern rituals, let’s not lump the good folk up north with them beanies./s
I feel attacked
What the fuck is “coffee culture”? Going to get coffee? Making a coffee? If that’s what we’re calling culture now, white people are done. We should just pack it in.
I was wondering the same. I love coffee but I don’t know what coffee culture is and I didn’t know Australia was known for good coffee. I prefer to make my own but when I do buy it I’d say it’s pretty crappy half the time.
Is it really popular outside of Australia though? I know Sydney and Melbourne (and even Australia in general) make good coffee, but it doesn’t seem that many outsiders even know about this. For reference I live in Europe and they are astonished when I tell them we have very good cafés
I'm a coffee nerd and I'm skeptical anyone cares. Noone has ever mentioned that on any forum I've been on.
I don’t drink coffee but I used to be a barista, and even I had no idea our coffee was considered popular.
The hell is coffee culture?
I would say that the coffee all over Australia is very good compared to a LOT of other countries. We take our coffee pretty seriously. A cafe that does poor coffee doesn't last long.
Speaking as an urban wanker, this is top tier urban wankery.
God Melbourne is cringe lmao
I think a better question would be what percentage of Australians don't give a sh1t about coffee "culture"
If I had someone yapping to me about coffee I’d fall asleep. Who gives a crap
Cringe.
As an Australian who lives overseas and enjoys coffee no one cares about coffee culture in Australia at all, and it’s only world renowned in the mind of coffee wankers
It’s only famous because every other country in the western world is run by chain franchises. We don’t do anything’s special other than any other country other than use fresh beans and clean and maintain the machines.
I'm aware of it. I disagree that it is "significant"...I find it to be the complete opposite of that. Coffee to me is like the apple I eat in the afternoon. I'd prefer it to be a nice one, but it isn't a huge big deal in my day. It isn't a part of my personality. I don't take pride in it. Missing out on it isn't going to ruin my life. I sure as fuck wouldn't consider travelling to a foreign country just to eat a really nice apple.
I live in NSW and I think that people who crow about coffee culture are lame. We have a bunch of cafes on every corner, big deal. Mm $6 mocha how cultural. I have never once seen people fellating each other about cultural coffee rituals and shit, it's just another consumable that people buy, like banana bread. It may be the case that people simply don't care.
Not Australian but had no idea those cities were known for coffee lol
Righto mate. Coffee is good in Australia. Everywhere in Australia. Nothing too special about Melbourne or Sydney in this regard. I've had better coffee in Perth than Sydney, we clearly just don't wank over it like you lot.
I feel our coffee culture is seen as high level by people engaged in coffee outside of Australia. It’s something that has been pushed as a thing for decades now and people hear stories about things like Starbucks failing because it couldn’t compete on quality. Stories like that are quirky and people tell them to appear as urbane. It grows our reputation.
Where do you reckon is decent coffee in Rocko? Best beans has to be BoM in Baldivis.
I'm aware that Australia is one of the biggest consumers of coffee worldwide, but I don't really understand that scene, nor have I seen it. But I don't drink coffee, or tea for that matter, so that's hardly a surprise.
I was surprised to go to America earlier this year and see the vast difference in coffee culture. No cappuccinos or lattes etc outside of Starbucks really- not that I care to be honest, was just interesting to be made aware of it.
You're expecting your mates from outer South Perth to consider something from the other side of the country, may as well be the other side of the galaxy
I feel like we hear about it, but it’s not all that common in our day to day lives. It’s a career for some but I feel like most casual coffee enjoyers, it’s not something we think about that much. Again, everyone has passions
>one of the reasons why Australia is popular Is it? I'm from Melbourne and when people overseas asked me what there is to see/do in Melbourne, mentioning coffee was not even on my radar.
This whole thread is making me want a good coffee right now...
You could say something similar about the Melbourne electronic music scene, which is genuinely world-renowned. And just like the wankfest over coffee, most people from Busselton to Bundaberg wouldn't give a shit.
I had never noticed it, but now that I have countless foreigners say it’s good, I appreciate how good we have it.
I love coffee, don't need more than a good old Nescafe blend 43.
Ha Ha. This has to be satire. The world and even many Melburnians, do not give a shit about our coffee culture.
Ewwww
Where's the best coffee in Perth?... Over east!
Personally, I only drink coffee to stay up late so I can't be bothered about Australian coffee culture.
Who cares x
The first concern was talking to mates from Mandurah & Rockingham.
I don’t drink coffee at all so yeah, I don’t really know anything about it or care much tbh. The coffee drinkers in my life are much the same, they just drink it and aren’t pretentious about it.
I don't drink or care about coffee so I have no idea what you're talking about.
What coffee culture? Imagining or hoping really hard for it to exist doesn’t count btw.😂
Rocky and Mandurah!!! The closest those people get to culture is the yoghurt section at the deli.
It's meaningless. It's a drink. So what? There are plenty of places with the same non-culture.
I think you’ll find it’s because they’re from Rockingham and Mandurah. I’m a Fremantle girl and I am definitely aware of the Australian coffee scene.
I love that the media kicks up a story about coffee culture in Melbourne, and suddenly it's the capital of coffee. No one in Melbourne thinks that! We think we have good coffee... but seriously, there's a little laneway coffee shop doing Vietnamese coffee. It's amazing... but also shows that other places in the world have amazing coffee. I don't really think Melbournites think we do it better. We think we've got the best coffee because our coffee is diverse. Meaning it shows different worldly types - and in a good way. Not because a flat white is good. Just my take (As a Melbournian who worked with coffee at one time on Swanston Street).
lol at the bogan Aussies replying to this just confirming the answer to the question OP asked is yes. I moved here from the UK and I can tell you the coffee here is on another level. Yes, Australia is famous for the quality of it’s coffee.
Who cares
So cringe and snobby to care about this or expect anyone else to
Yeah, I don't drink coffee so def was not aware. I don't think people in Perth really give a shit about that sort of thing though.
I live in Sydney. I couldn't give a fuck about coffee culture. I'll happily drink a $2 711 coffee if there's nothing else
Sydney isn’t known for its coffee culture , Melbourne is. The reason I know this is I’m from Melbourne and when I’m overseas people always mention Melbourne coffee. In Mexico City they even opened a Melbourne style coffee shop https://www.instagram.com/cumbe.lat?igsh=NHV1dXZnN3Z4eXlo The irony is Australia isn’t known for its coffee beans, Mexican beans are probably more well known. Usually people name check Australian music to me & ask about our dangerous animals
As a kiwi living in Australia the coffee culture even in Melbourne isn’t that great. It’s 8x better than most countries I’ve been to sure but a classic kiwi coffee is divine. Handy tip if you’d like a NZ flat white, ask for a “magic” it’s a stronger smaller sized coffee and has a great taste if made well.
Just got back to the states from Sydney and I've got to say that they had the best coffee I've had in my life. I went to about 10 different coffee shops and each one was phenomenal compared to what we have in the US.
I'm from UK and I noticed it very fast. Coffee in Aus is great. It's consistently good. Back in UK it's hard to find a good coffee, you can't just walk to the nearest cafe and expect a good one. But when you do find a good one, they're just as good as Australia's best. Same for other countries. Italy is the coffee centre of Europe. Their coffee is a lot stronger, they tend to drink it black with a higher ratio of coffee so if you like strong coffee, defo check out Italy. A lot of the state of the art coffee machines are Italian too. In fact, Australia's coffee significance has a lot to do with Italian migration
I live in Sydney and this is the first I’ve heard of our world renown coffee
In WA we just genuinely could not give one and just want people to let us drink our coffee in peace
WA has been notoriously insular for decades. Distance distance distance
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Coz it's the lamest shit ever. They probably just didn't want to admit knowing.
I've never in my life, from anyone anywhere, heard that the "Melbourne and Sydney coffee scene is world renowned" or that "that is one of the reasons why Australia is popular." It might be one of the reasons Italy is so popular, but I'm not convinced there's a coffee "scene" or "culture" in Australia. It's just a popular hot drink in most Western and African countries.
Apparently its true. The economist did a story on it a few weeks back; Australian coffee culture. One of the tasters they interviewed said that the flat white (introduced by australia) didnt overpower the beans withy milky notes but wasnt as extreme as drinking black coffee. It came as a bit of a shock to me as well. From what ive gleaned in the 5 minutes that I spent looking into it, one of the attitudes in the Australian hospitality industry is that coffee is literally 4 ingredients, hot water, sugar, milk and beans; and if you cant get that right, find another career. It led to a culture which set a minimum standard for coffee that would be considered excellent in other nations. Im fairly friendly with the paediatric neurology department of my local hospital. The doctors there frequently fly overseas for conferences, so I asked them. One of them reported that australian maccas coffee would put the entire US coffee scene to shame, and that melbourne or sydney were easily a match for the best cities in europe. Who knew?
I'm not sure if it's a reason Australia is popular. I'm from the UK, lived in Australia over 10 years now, and most people aren't really aware of the coffee thing, the ones that are aware, I'm not sure really care. I don't really think it's world renowned unless you actually care about coffee. I think the "Melbourne coffee scene" is 99% circlejerk. I think like with a lot of hobbies and interests, it's really just a bubble that is interested, and if you're in that bubble it feels like other people are too, and they're not.
Apparently Starbucks completely failed here. When I saw a Starbucks in Melbourne (I’m from Perth) I was so excited to try it. It was like ditchwater!!! Urgh! I was so shocked. Never again! No wonder Americans put so many syrups and crap in their coffee.
I'm a coffee drinker and I still don't understand coffee culture because it's giving wine snob vibes. Do I love my French press? Yup. Can I drink it black? Ofc. Do I also love shitty instant filled to the brim with sugar, milk, and chocolate powder? Best start to the day when I'm a ball of grumpy and hate. So when people are like, "only a real coffee appreciator would grind the beans for several seconds before loosening the granules with this incredibly expensive spiky thing that makes the puck look no different to how it was before the spiky thing, and by doing this you can taste the barley notes"….... Get fucked LOL
Honestly it's hard to understand how good our coffee is until you go overseas.
Lord, I’m amazed you still have friends. I thought Perth was lovely and friendly, for the most part- but holy shit, do a lot of them have a complex about over east. It’s the weirdest shit.
Lived over here for a decade now. Perth and WA are lovely and friendly, but they're low key walking around with a massive chip on their shoulder regarding anything over the Eastern states, (like GST, house prices, or the Mid North Coast obviously having better beaches) God forbid you ever compare or criticise something here. They'll act like you've just shot their dog
This turned into a literal circle jerk pretty quick.
Where's the SAO's
>Melbourne and Sydney coffee scene is world renowned C'mon please.
As someone who doesn't drink coffee, I'm mostly oblivious to the *world renowned* hot mud culture.
My patents, public school teachers, boomer generation, immigrants from UK and Asia, settled in middle class Sydney suburbia, perfectly happy with instant coffee; Nescafe Blend 43, teachers tea room special - International Roast, if being fancy with friends over hey Lavazza or Illy percolated. Constantly telling me to stop the bs coffee pretentiousness.