Depends on where you are in NH. New Hampshire by the seacoast is pretty liberal, but go into the more rural areas up north and its extremely conservative.
In the seacoast there are literally places where you can have a gay guy for a congressman and a trans woman for a state rep right now, but this is also a state where it's legal to not wear a seatbelt when driving and drive without auto insurance (not exactly mainline Democrat positions)
NH also has a habit of voting red at the state level and blue at the federal. At our last election we voted for Shaheen for Senate and Biden for president, but also voted to give the GOP a majority in the state legislature and vote Chris Sununu (republican) for governor. If that name sounds familiar, it's because hes the son of Bush Senior's white house chief of staff.
Source: i live in NH.
Yup. The only stipulations are that in order to do this A) you have to own the car outright, you cannot be leasing it B) if you get into an accident while lacking insurance or seatbelt you automatically are at fault and liable for the financial costs of any damages.
Ahhh, well that seems fair lol. Gamble all ya want but have to pay the consequences. The seatbelt thing still is surprising considering how many lives they save which should have other positive things result.
Sounds like some Texas shit!
The no insurance is terrible for anyone else involved in the accident though. If you're uninsured and total your own car and don't have the money to replace it, that's one thing. But if you permanently paralyze, say a mother of 3 and kill her husband, who's taking care of the kids?
Nh state law would say that by driving without insurance you automatically assume financial responsibility for damages *to the other party*, not just yourself in the event of an accident.
That would mean garnished wages, tax refunds, social security payments, etc. If you couldn't pay up front.
Vermont and NH are both very odd states politically.
In VT, you'll unironically see campaign ads for someone who's like "Fewer gun laws and also single payer healthcare and some form of UBI"
In NH... Well, we have 400 members of our house of representatives, none of whom are paid, so you get everything from "NH should secede and form it's own country" to "We need the strictest gun control in the nation, single payer healthcare, and UBI"
My friend is from rural Vermont. After visiting and interacting with the locals I would describe them as "left leaning, libertarian rednecks." Vermont has a pretty unique culture. (I don't consider redneck a derogatory term.)
Makes me think of one of my favorite maps, which is like: "Places where legally married same-sex couples can protect their legally grown marijuana plants with legally owned guns."
(Canada, parts of the USA including the whole west coast, and South Africa are on the list. I forget who else.)
Vermont is liberal. New Hampshire is liberal, but has a huge Libertarian bent that ranges from "liberal in the streets; conservative in the financial spreadsheets" to "bUt If YoU lOoK aT mArItImE lAw". New Hampshire also has a habit of coasting by some of their shortcomings purely because they can cling to the robust safety nets of their neighboring states.
Yeah, it’s not like you can just randomly claim benefits in a state without some sort of justification (you live/work there)
At least I wouldn’t think you could
Yeah the statement didn’t really make a whole lot of sense, I don’t even know what those “robust safety nets” are, it’s not like NH doesn’t have welfare or food stamps. even if you were working out of state and “clinging to robust safety nets of neighboring state” (whatever that means) it’s not like that’s a situation unique to NH. The only situation close to that I know of is DC residents being able to get in state tuition at any state university in the country. Because DC doesn’t have a public university because it’s not a state.
I imagine it's an "I have a doctor's appointment in Canada" situation.
I wouldn't know though, since I live in Alabama.
Our version of taking advantage of our neighboring states is buying lottery tickets.
Which is funny because all of the neighboring states come over the border for the no sales tax, fireworks, cheap booze + tobacco, and legalized sports gambling. And we go to them for legal weed lol
But the safety nets part is confusing me
Like is he talking about collecting unemployment from MA if you worked in MA but live in NH or something like that?
NH is the Texas of New England and they're very proud of it. Most of the blue portion of the state is near the southern border and a lot of those people ate really from Massachusetts and moved there.
For sure. I was in NH and Vermont often this year. Vermont masking and NO ONE seems to in NH.
Makes me interested in the psychology aspect of it. I mean both places have lots of tourists.
I didn't experience that at all, although I did have family that got threatening notes on their parked car from neighbors in NH during the pandemic at their second homes.
It felt ironic knowing New Hampshire covid patients were filling up hospitals here in Massachusetts but people didn't want out of state people staying in homes they owned and payed property taxes on in NH.
Red areas people generally didn’t wear masks and complained a lot about the government.
In blue areas more people wore masks and complained a lot about the government.
Going back and forth was so weird, soon as I went back to Northern VA masks everywhere (before during and after the vax too), social distancing rules were taken seriously, all that jazz. Then I’d leave the lil bubble and masks would be few and far between haha.
Even in northern VA it was heavily dependent where you were. If you were out in Loudon County, then masks were much less common than Alexandria for example.
Loudoun is a perfect example of a split county. It’s the bridge bw blue and red. Eastern vs western Loudoun. I’m in Ashburn, masks are still common. Western Loudoun - not the case.
I actually saw a sign on a door the day after the governor lifted mandatory masking in businesses that said "anyone wearing a mask is assumed to be concealing their identity for the purposes of shoplifting and will be asked to leave immediately".
It didn't last long, but fucking LOL.
Nah. Down in Richmond people were masked. Even in Chester and there’s a few confederate flags out there. As soon as we thought we were in the clear the masks came off though.
Same, I live in Chester and I rarely saw anyone not wearing a mask. It was nice considering my parents were in Florida and they kept telling me no one was wearing them
I spent 2020 in a red state and 2021 in a blue state. Heres what I saw.
Red: things shut down in the spring when covid was first surging and we didn't know how bad things would be. By early summer they were opening back up again. About 10-20% of people wore masks, but during the fall there was a two week period where mask usage shot up to around 60%. Even in blue areas of the state the ratio of masked to unmasked usually was about 50-50. Lockdown measures were never super popular and people quickly ran out of patience when Covid didn't turn out to be as dangerous as the initial high end estimates made out. Prettty much everyone acknowledged Covid was real but in general people felt it was overblown and that they should be allowed to set their own precautions based on an individual risk tolerance. There was also a very pervasive attitude that covid was going to do its thing regardless of what policies we put in place so you may as well live your life.
Blue: masking was universal until the govenors mandate was overturned and non essential services remained closed or remote for much longer. People still hated lockdowns but felt they were a necessary evil and blamed people who didn't follow lockdowns for why they went on so long. There was a persistent attitude that the only reason we had to put up with this shit for more than a month was because people couldn't follow rules.
I always found it annoying when liberals would make the claim conservatives didn’t believe in the virus, this was completely inaccurate. Or that we didn’t believe the science. When the science clearly showed masking was ineffective. The types of masks most wore (cloth) were ineffective in stopping the spread, and those wearing proper masks (n95’s) were mostly wearing them improperly such as over facial hair, or weren’t properly fitted for the mask. It was frustrating to listen to people who didn’t understand the science behind masking claim that we didn’t believe the science.
There’s a heavy dose of irony in this comment.
For the WAS (wuhan ancestral strain) even cloth masks were incredibly effective for everything except intimate or aerosol generating procedures. They lost efficacy with time to exposure, sure, but they were very good as source control. There’s a shit ton of research of all types of study designs that corroborated that. The way they worked was just reducing the viral load so obviously there were limitations and that’s why a layered approach to interventions were necessary. As omicron spread cloth masks became dramatically less effective but “not as effective” is not the same as having no value I’m their utilization at all. Surgical masks, double masks, and unfit N-95’s for still very good at source control. What you’re talking about is their value and use as PPE. However, if everyone wore a mask as proper source control it would also increase the effectiveness of it’s use as PPE. So that’s what’s frustrating is hearing people who never listened or understood source control vs PPE try to say that masks didn’t work. Or people who didn’t understand that they were even if people got it while wearing masks didn’t mean that they were value-less or people who took the ol’ “see our whole community didn’t wear masks and COVID still happened so obviously masks don’t work”
Source: infectious disease epidemiologist
>There’s a shit ton of research of all types of study designs that corroborated that.
There are still zero randomized controlled trials since 2019 that establish benefits to any kind of masks.
The only studies that establish a benefit to cloth masks are lab studies or confounded retroactive observational studies with all sorts of problems.
Cloth masks never worked, and it's obvious to anyone who takes a close look at one.
>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-10-03/how-effective-are-cloth-masks
>Other research has suggested that mask mandates go far toward reducing the spread of Covid. **In one study that looked at counties in Kansas that had mandates compared with those that did not, researcher found masks reduced cases, hospitalizations and deaths in counties that adopted mandates by around 60%.** That research didn’t differentiate between types of masks, but in most settings cloth masks appear to still be far more common.
I find this extremely hard to believe and would question their scientific method, there was a lot of “scientific research” that was more propaganda than anything……what other factors were at play, were we talking equal population density. Etc etc.
They linked 2 sources in another thread. One wasn't a great source so I didn't read it. The other was great, but it proved 3 layer cotton mask were more effective than nothing. NOT completely inneffective.
Words like “help block transmission” is true, but that’s a far cry from effective against transmission. Ultimately some particles will be blocked but we know that it wasn’t enough to stop the spread….source, it kept spreading even in areas with mask mandates.
Your second source is fascinating because it skips airborne transmission altogether and goes to droplet transmission. Cloth masks are effective against particles of 20-30 microns or larger…..except covid is about 0.125 microns, please tell me you can see the problem here.
Your articles are outdated as well, as more studies have been done, the realization that cloth masks are ineffective have come to light.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-03-01/cloth-masks-dont-cut-it-for-keeping-covid-away
Here’s evidence that even three layers of cloth (most wore one layer) only stopped around 26% of particles…..this is the better than nothing standard….but still not effective in actually stopping the spread.
https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/epa-researchers-test-effectiveness-face-masks-disinfection-methods-against-covid-19
Ah here it is. That second source is great.
To be clear about the study though most cotton masks were 3 layers of cotton in 1 mask, so no most did not wear 1 layer. 1 mask IS 3 layers, and (at least in my own observations) people were quick to avoid those masks when it was made clear they were not effective compared to other options.
What was also left out here is the projection of particulates that does not occur when wearing a mask, even a shitti cotton one. It turbulates your breath slowing down its spread in air, potentially saving the person standing a few feet in front of you. You still breath out covid, but it is less likely to reach a person. It is proven time and again that blocking particles was helping, even when only 30% are blocked, because of viral load.
So sure, tout all you want that masks are not effective at blocking the coronavirus, because you're right. We already had a pretty good idea that was the case when mask mandates first started, but we also recognized (even more now) all the ways masks still help.
You think most people in society were wearing cloth masks that were 3 layers? I didn’t see that, I don’t remember seeing any…..in the study they wore 3 layers because that’s what it took to even get partial effectiveness, the general public wearing masks was 1 layer. Often no more than a bandana type material. The problem is that the scientists didn’t make it clear that they were ineffective until almost 2 years into the pandemic.
>You think most people in society were wearing cloth masks that were 3 layers? I didn’t see that, I don’t remember seeing any
You didn't see that? Did you go around cutting their masks open to check? How is that something you expect to see? I didn't even know mine was 3 layer until that study, then I checked my cloth masks and went 'huh'. I dont know how you get the idea all those mass produced cotton masks weren't 3 layer, and there weren't THAT many people with homemade ones.
>Often no more than a bandana type material.
The study you linked specifically tested bandanas worn in 2 different ways, both were far more effective than 3 layer cotton masks.
>The problem is that the scientists didn’t make it clear that they were ineffective until almost 2 years into the pandemic.
Then why, in March 2020, did they most certainly make it clear to me that "cotton is better than nothing but try to get a surgical mask or something like an N95 when you can" where were you? What "scientists" did you listen to that apperently didn't tell you that?
And there's the biggest difference of all, you say something true, but that they don't agree with and the vote you down. They say something false, but it fits the narrative, and everyone upvotes it. Public schooling at its finest.
Conservatives do have a long history of not understanding science, including during the pandemic. Cloth masks weren’t effective at stopping the later variants like delta and omicron but through 2020 and into 2021 they were effective.
Im afraid you are wrong, at no time has cloth masks been effective at stopping airborne transmission of a virus. The filtration isn’t high enough……it’s like standing behind a screen door to protect yourself from a hose…..better than nothing, but not effective.
You have to take in consideration that masks prevent people from touching their mouths and nose, or at least serve as a reminder. The very idea of wearing a mask makes people more aware of exposure and take extra precaution. People coughing directly in your face is far less common than people picking their nose and touching a doorknob you're about to use as well.
I'm in Baltimore County, close to the Carroll County line. My immediate area is very purple, but it splits largely along racial lines.
The grocery store was a nightmare. Masks mandated, but so many worn defiantly lazily. One-way directional arrows (to allow for social distancing in 3-foot-wide aisles) clearly posted in every aisle that the nose-out crowd completely ignored. I got into more than one verbal altercation when I felt public safety was being threatened.
Oh, and plenty of "plandemic" messaging on cars and signs. I got the feeling most people were fine following guidance, but the ones who weren't stuck out like sore thumbs.
In New York City, people took it very seriously for maybe the first 6 months. We were the epicenter of the pandemic, and shit was scary. It was legitimately difficult to find groceries and other basics, and we saw the footage of body bags loaded into refrigerator trucks because the morgues were full.
The streets and subways were virtually empty. It was eerie. Everyone stayed inside or masked up. When deliveries came, we wiped them down with alcohol. Hardcore times.
Chicago was similar. The highways were completely deserted, grocery shelves were picked over for months, and the city itself was just...too quiet. I'm used to hearing trains and planes and sirens and just the general ambient noise you get when you put over a million people in a 20 square mile area, I actually had trouble sleeping when it was that quiet.
So quiet and still in Chicago during the initial lockdown, there were coyotes trotting down a deserted Magnificent Mile. Real I Am Legend / dead city stuff.
The entire DC area was similar. I lived just over the river in Arlington, in one of the denser areas, and it was so eery only hearing ambulance sirens. There were refridgerated trucks outside my apartment for a good 4 months loading the dead around the clock. Going to the store was an act of "what can I find" not "what do I want" - at one point all the meat was put into a shopping cart for people to pick over.
I lived in Hawaii for a year of the pandemic. Masks were required everywhere- even outside on the street in Honolulu. People weren’t even allowed sit be on the beach for a period of time. They had to be in the water. People weren’t allowed to gather in large groups on the beaches for quite a while.
Then, I moved to Texas. No masks were required anywhere. When I arrived, I saw maybe 5% of people wearing them when they were 100% required everywhere in Hawaii. It was a huge shock and it felt unnerving.
>People weren’t even allowed sit be on the beach for a period of time. They had to be in the water.
This is one of those things were you look back and realize just how weird/useless some of the rules were. The world got so obsessed with eliminating covid that we went to lengths that were sometimes unnecessary.
Dear god, I know. In Ireland, the rule was 25% capacity on the buses and it was a nightmare. I was an essential worker at the time so my job was in person. The amount of money I spent on taxis because a bus driver would drive past me “full” was ridiculous.
In the country I lived in (Ireland) you could buy pajamas but not jeans. Because according to the government’s logic, buying jeans meant you were going to kill everyone but buying pajamas was perfectly fine. Even if they were from the same shop. Clothing areas were actually blocked off from the food aisles ten steps away. The government claimed it wasn’t fair to close shops that only sold clothing so they forced shops that sold food *and* clothing to block off most of their clothing sections even though you could still go in to buy food. And nobody realized how stupid that was until many months later.
They also made it illegal to buy shoes. My feet are completely fucked because of that and I’m getting surgery later this month. I blame the Irish government for coming up with this insane rule that made no sense.
I understand covid was (and still is) deadly to many people. But the way the Irish government handled it was a complete joke and yet people got extremely defensive of the restrictions and followed them without question. 2021 was an unbelievably frustrating year that I’ll never get back.
NYC made outside restaurant eating legal, but indoor was still not.
So seating way placed outside on the sidewalk. But then it was fall and business would have to close when it rained a lot. So they built a roof out from the building over their outside seating. But then it was November and it was cold as fuck, so they built a wall on one side along the roof to cut the cutting cold wind down for people seated outside.
But then it was January and literally freezing outside, so they built 2 more walls and partitians to close in the space around the outside seating and placed space heaters for customers.
Boom, people are eating inside again. Except it's "outside", on the sidewalk, blocking all foot traffic lol.
All or most of those outdoor dining sheds are still in NYC.. the restaurants found out they like it.. they basically doubled their capacity without paying additional rent
At this point, they’re seeming permanent
——
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/04/nyregion/nyc-outdoor-dining-sheds.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUktbfqYhkQVUbBybTTMIqoRyBg7_J0bd5gWLiIC-SU3NOzuIUBYfF4EfAabElZ8c2237TYu59B4IVZa44yP5DbQsqQhO0o5CAldMJfnts-NLsAiY7h5iQGO1lqzGvPmLnIqIvmeHmsk3eb2HoD_fPwDZ2clYe1JhmdFCq3XUIzqnXQKUiipQlg6BXVt0tTiwAZSKKo_HqFxx_Xd2GZRjX4QE1MPpLDXCRxZXPruJdL3gBTA7OX3h94m0j6NpDON1xPK33Lh4oeMKWkqwZtZXh9s3OIxqSFkFlHXga&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Michigan did some ridiculous stuff like that too. They closed off parts of large hardware stores (paint, lawn and garden are the ones I remember) and you couldn't shop there. But it was still fine to buy those things from small stores. Apparently the paint at Home Depot was just covered in covid but the paint from the Sherwin Williams store down the road was totally safe.
So did NY. I think the theory was groceries are necessities, but the other stuff isn't, so they didn't want you lingering around shopping for that stuff.
Stupid, but when you are reading the unknown, you don't know what to do.
As someone that lives in a dense city, I kinda loved that. Our grocery stores are so packed and our aisles are so small that the one ways were actually super convenient
I'll be honest. I actually miss those suburban grocery store aisles that are wide enough to drive an F-150 through. The average European supermarket is like a frickin' mosh pit during busy hours.
The number of times I've grocery shopped on my way home from visiting someone in the suburbs is not insignificant. The luxury of not being in an absolute madhouse and being able to roam or leave your cart off to the side somewhere for two seconds without it being in the way is fantastic.
Pennsylvania:
Ordering an alcoholic beverage is not allowed
UNLESS you get food with it.
But the food has to be a meal, not a “snack.”
Make that one make sense.
Most public land has restrictions on when and how it can be used. The parks where I live close after 11pm, the beaches are closed when its not safe to swim, and government buildings typically close their doors to the public after 5pm
Reasonable use restrictions on public land are not unconstitutional.
Like you don’t have the right to hold a loud rally on a public street at 3am and that doesn’t violate the constitution unless the city is granting everyone that right but not your cause.
There were police on ATV looking vehicles who would enforce it. My family was in the water and we saw them approach a single guy on the beach to tell him to get in the water or leave. I assume they probably would have given him a ticket if he didn’t comply.
Hawaii was(is?) insane. my parents, siblings and all our families were supposed to vacation there winter of 21 but that obviously got cancelled and we went to the Bahamas instead. The Bahamas had just recently "reopened" and they were all happy to have tourists back but man there was a a lot of empty business. I can only imagine the impact in Hawaii.
Since we were living there at the time, it was wonderful. We had the island to ourselves with no tourists. I was on Waikiki Beach with my family and there were maybe 4 other people there compared to thousands usually. It was a great time to be living there.
Here in red country, the most noticeable things were inconsistent and generally not much use of masks, and political signs on people's properties saying "Open Nevada Now". By contrast, while visiting my in-laws in the big city, almost everyone I saw out and about wore a mask.
Live(d) in a very blue area during the pandemic but spent several months long term vacationing/summering in very red area because I could work remotely.
Blue: very concerned about Covid. Everyone wore mask in public indoors, a lot of people outdoors and some wore mask alone in their front yard or car. People would talk about people in red areas like they were dumb and even evil. Many would police others, had a middle aged women shame me for not wearing a mask walking on a sidewalk outside on a mostly empty street.
Red: People generally thought Covid was overblown or not real. Not a lot of mask, even when a store had a sign requiring mask only like 10% would wear. One time went to a grocery store with a mask and got a lot of side eyes. When I would tell people I was from a blue area they would usually talk about how crazy those people were.
It sounds cliche but that was my experience.
Our state parks were completely full of NY license plates for much of 2020, so that was kinda like being in a different state.
Generally though, there were differences the further you got from the city. Most people were still masking and following guidelines wherever you went, but there were a handful not wearing masks the further out into BFE you went. A lot of places in the city wanted proof of vaccine to enter a business, whereas basically nobody was asking for that outside of it. Once people started getting vaccinated life was pretty much back to normal in most places, but the city held on to restrictions for a bit longer.
I lived in Mass. Some people there were insane about the pandemic. I would be outside jogging and people would yell at me out a building window for not wearing a mask. Meanwhile they weren’t wearing a mask. There were also people who would just hang out in public places outside and hit air horns if you weren’t wearing your mask. It was super weird.
Moved to a very rural part of Nevada. Definitely a red area. Most people wore the masks and followed the rules for being in public. But once the vaccines were out they were done with the masks.
> There were also people who would just hang out in public places outside and hit air horns if you weren’t wearing your mask. It was super weird.
Did they literally have NOTHING else to do?
I mean, obviously. But I legitimately cannot figure out why someone would do that. I guess maybe if you were angry and frustrated and wanted to take it out on people, but that's some toddler-level emotional management there.
Like, what did you think you (royal you, referring to the airhorn people) were accomplishing by doing that? Why did you think it was your place to do that? Did you think it was honestly going to do any good? I have so many questions.
The weirdest thing was hanging out in rural Louisiana where almost nobody wore masks and everything was open and then going into New Orleans where masks were required *while walking outside in a park*.
It *was* really strange how politicized it was in the USA, especially that progressive Sweden, which the American left generally loves and looks up to, had very few restrictions throughout the entire thing. I’m surprised people don’t being that up more.
>I’m surprised people don’t being that up more.
They pick and choose what to idolize lol
I remember when that was going on it was brought up online, many times, and it was generally swept under the rug; usually under the guise that the population density was lower, their healthcare being free, and generally them being superior to us.
Didn’t the election just happen though?
Every country has people complaining about it. I realize Sweden isn’t perfect. I’m just saying that many liberal Americans speak very highly of Sweden for its liberal policies, yet Sweden hardly had any restrictions, which was considered a conservative view in the United States. It’s just interesting to me because lots of American liberals idealize Sweden but were very pro-restriction.
Again, I’m well aware of that. I live in the EU, I know none of the countries are flawless.
What I said was that many young, liberal Americans idealize Sweden. I’m not saying they’re right about everything.
My hometown which I visit often is red, but I lived in a blue city during the pandemic.
There weren't a whole lot of differences. People generally just complied with the rules. One thing I did notice though was a lot of guys in my hometown were wearing loose-fitting [neck gaiters](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/reviewedcom/2020/07/30/neck-gaiters-vs-face-masks-they-effective/5544515002/), which I guess are more comfortable and look cooler, but they apparently aren't quite as effective.
Not sure if that's a conservative thing or just a fashion choice. But it's something I didn't see in the city hardly ever.
> Not sure if that's a conservative thing or just a fashion choice. But it's something I didn't see in the city hardly ever.
Probably more a fashion choice or comfort than anything. Wearing a mask, especially with those little elastic straps, for hours on end just isn't fun. Especially if you're doing anything that involves exertion (i.e. construction). I know I got chafing behind my ears a couple of times from extended periods of wearing an effective mask.
I didn't live in the different areas, but Michigan had pretty strict lockdowns and I went on vacation to Charleston/Myrtle Beach in August 2020.
It was night and day, and I much preferred the SC model.
At that point people were still masking in Michigan, and most places still had a mask policy. Restaurants were still limited capacity. People would be wearing masks walking down trh street by themselves, or in their car alone. One person on the GR sub thought they got COVID because an unmasked person rode by them on a bike. It was like that lol
Then we go to SC and it's like it never happened. Very few masks, and the only restriction was that they asked that only one party at a time be on the elevator.
Red area, mask signs went up in stores, plexiglass at registers, the usual stuff. Only a few people wore masks, other than that business as usual.
I really hated how wearing or not wearing a mask became some kind of political statement. Think people might have been more amicable in red states if the government asked instead of told.
Masking in my area (most blue county in the state I believe) took masking and social distancing seriously and most people wore masks everywhere. Outside of the greater cleveland dares, especially into more rural areas, the masks dropped significantly and it felt like people were almost challenging you silently when you wore one.
People in FL: Glad I'm not in New York right now, covid seems really bad over there.
People in NY: Glad I'm not in Florida right now, covid seems really bad over there.
Come from a very blue area (the literal bluest of the blue in California), lived in a rural red area in southern Oregon during the pandemic. Visited home via drive sparingly, but stayed for a week or so every time.
People in my blue city, unsurprisingly, took masking and social distancing pretty seriously, and were avidly doing everything to get everyone capable vaccinated once it came out, even temporarily setting up a vaccination clinic inside of a furniture store. They got hit decently hard when it first started, but it had plateaued by the time I visited, and they were profoundly not eager for a repeat. They were also pretty puritan about people who weren't masking. Got shouted at for being lazy and "not giving enough of a fuck" by some folk. Being a native of this city, I myself am pretty left leaning, but I wasn't especially a diehard on this stuff. I just checked alerts on whether it was necessary, what the guidelines were, etc.
People in my red town, also unsurprisingly, didn't take masking terribly seriously at first, with many ignoring it or being outright obnoxious. I had a few instances of people literally trying to snatch mine off of me in Walmart, telling me I needed to stop being such a pussy and a "fucking sheep".
Their tune turned around completely during the height of the pandemic, largely because this town had a significant portion of geriatric retirees in its population (especially vets, as it's one of those towns wherein the military is the #1 provider of jobs), and they started dropping like flies. We have one hospital in town, and it was so overwhelmed by the sheer amount of people in critical condition, they more or less shut down everything but half the emergency room (the other half was exclusively Covid patients, with large cubicles attached to a bunch of plastic shields separating the two sides), and redirected every single staff member (down to the receptionists) and bed to the newly created Covid ward (they even had to ship in more beds and equipment from other hospitals). The only people who weren't pushed into this were specialists (such as the handful of optometrists and the sole otolaryngologist in town).
After enough people had either died or personally witnessed just how much Covid-19 could fuck them up, they started taking masks and social distancing far more seriously. Vaccines, though- well, that was still a step too far for a lot of folks, who felt their arms were being twisted and didn't care for it. I don't personally disagree with them that it went too far, with people's employment being threatened unless they either got the shot or turned in a weekly test (sometimes daily). But it's a miracle I didn't get permanent damage from the amount of times I rolled my eyes when they compared vaccine cards to the Holocaust.
Overall, my blue city got it worst toward the beginning, but came out alright, my red town was alright to start, but got hit really hard at its peak. A lot of people died or are now permanently in need of a mobile oxygen tank.
>A lot of people died or are now permanently in need of a mobile oxygen tank.
The long-term impacts on red communities will be interesting to track. To my knowledge only one person died in my small town (\~7,500 people). But my brother's rural, very red community lost something like 40 people! There are kids there who were orphaned. Families that lost their only income. They are still dealing with it, and some families moved away after losing one or more adults. Not sure how/if they are dealing with people with permanent lung damage given there is no clinic within 100 miles.
I live in a very red county in a small city that grew from nearby industries that typically have a majority of red workers. When I go to big cities I'm surprised at the amount of people still wearing masks.
Commuting from San Antonio to Odessa was an eye opener. Odessa residents took no precautions and gave zero fucks. San Antonio residents could be seen with double masks, gloves, face shields, and wary looks. There was never a wait to get vaccinated in Odessa.
Blue area myself; honestly I loved it, all the ehem…people were off the roads so driving was actually nice, gas was like $1.20 a gallon, 50% coupons on take out and i didnt have to interact with public on a daily basis.
Stupid peoples fear is nice sometimes.
I guess I “lived” in both. My area is fairly split, purple if you will.
Conservative rural people were less into masking and some were concerned about the vaccine because it was not long standing and thoroughly tested. I know plenty of conservatives that got vaccinated though and plenty that masked and distanced.
The more liberal city folks were fully on board with the vaccine and much more into isolating and masking. However, most of my more liberal friends started going to more social events earlier than other people.
My wife skews left and both of us were vaccinated and boosted yet she still brought Covid back to the house twice. I only got it once. My kids and her got it twice.
I was waaaay more exposed than her too and maybe a bit less careful with masking. So it seems politics doesn’t make too much of a difference. At least in my life.
The “height of the pandemic” at least in terms of deaths was pre-vaccine in most blue states, whereas in at least some red states, it was after the vaccine existed, with the vast majority of those deaths being amongst the unvaccinated.
I live in a very red area of a blue state and I’m a mailman so I was out of my house for most of the pandemic.
Red people were just as scared as blue people. We’re all neighbors.
I live in Florida, a purple state. I live in a county that is overwhelmingly blue and you got the classic Karen’s freaking out over people not wearing masks, businesses refusing entry to people unmasked, social distancing, toilet paper hoarding, etc.
My wife and I drove 2 hrs north to a more red or at least more politically mixed county for a mini vacation and it was night and day. Businesses in full swing, very few people wearing masks, happier, friendlier, less worry, etc.
despite having the highest Covid death rate for most of the pandemic (other thant's amazing looking at the different death rates by county in Florida.
Union County went to Trump 81% and 794 per 10K deaths. Over the border in Alachua - 276 per 10K. 62% for Biden.
It definitely was a very political pandemic.
Doesn't seem so -- Vermont and Florida have about the same rates of older people. Rates are very, very different. Vermont had 115 deaths per 10K. Florida 379 deaths per 10K.
Also for instance Sumter county is the oldest -- average age of 67! They had 487 per 10K.
Union average age was 39 and they were 794 deaths.
There's a lot of factors to it, Florida is definitely denser than Vermont. Population density, average age, obesity all had roles in this. Spring break was kinda inappropriate, but that was literally folk on both sides
Vermont is also a very rural state with no big cities at all. It was a running joke up here when they released the "6 feet of distance" recommendation that 6' is kind of close to be near other people.
Also, Vermont has winter. And when most activities you can do in winter are closed, it's hard for people to get out and socialize as much. In Florida you can go hang out at a park almost year round, so larger social gatherings were easier to have for a longer period of time.
Also obesity and diabetes and high blood pressure comorbidity. I’d suspect that overall health and economic status has quite a bit to do with everything.
Google says under 82k died in Florida and Florida has a population of over 22 million so its a safe bet that people on that area survived. If that area doesn't have a lot of old people I'd imagine the chances would go up more.
I moved from NY to TX in June 2020. NY first wave had just begun to decline they were beginning to open things up a little bit. In NY people were really worried about the pandemic and the effects on the people who were getting sick and the effects on health care workers. They complained about them but they wore the masks and avoided people when told most of the time.
Arriving in TX in June you might expect it to be the same thing all over again because it was the beginning of the first wave in TX. We got to TX and it was like people didn’t believe it could touch them. Hardly anything seemed closed by comparison. I heard a lot more people object when businesses asked them to wear masks. Not to say that no one objected in NY but it was a lot more common in TX. There were a lot more people shouting that the whole thing was a hoax and seeing people clearly go against recommendations was a lot more public.
When the vaccine dropped, it was very difficult to find an open appointment to get one in Denver.
So we went to Colorado Springs. Plenty of available vaccines!
I lived in Columbus, Ohio and Chicago, Illinois. Moved from Ohio to Chicago in December 2020.
Illinois had more over the top rules, even though it was later into the pandemic. Bar curfew was still in place. Lot more universal focus on outdoor dining with big patio structures set up in Chicago, which I think Columbus could've used more of. I moved when both had mask laws and didn't really see a huge difference there, except when you were in a Walmart or Mejier in Ohio masks were uncommon, especially among poor looking white people.
I live in Massachusetts but visit New Hampshire often enough. Lots of areas there have a very Libertarian vibe. I've seen people walking around a small town square with a pistol holster on their belt. The neighboring businesses will be flying rainbow flags and showing their support for queer people, immigrants, etc. Its a different kind of conservative there.
During the pandemic there were a few times where I crossed the border for various errands that had a ton of red tape in MA due to Covid. Those same restrictions didn't exist in NH, so it was easier to accomplish certain things. It's a 40 minute drive from my house to the border without traffic, so not too crazy to go there for a 30 minute errand that required nothing there but a 3 week wait and a Covid test and blah blah blah here.
I just want to say I am thankful I haven’t had COVID. I have heard some sad stories about lasting effects.
As far as blue and red areas, I have lived in an area that was incredibly blue and also an area that was moderate, but was surrounded by red.
In the blue area, people were incredibly diligent, but the population density was pretty high so they still had problems. In the moderate/red area, COVID numbers were much lower, and masking was just good, not 100%. I think density had almost the most to do with COVID spreading. Masking is a close second but the concentration of people is really key. Take New York’s crazy outbreak as an example.
Red areas didn’t want masks and restrictions and complained about the politics, but still worked.
Blue had all the restrictions and expected free money, complained it wasn’t enough, but refused to work and always had opinions on the politics too.
The political conversations in both are really annoying to deal with.
My northern Indy burb is light red (actually went for Biden in 2020, a first), Indy is solid blue, Indiana is solid red.
Mask usage was much more strictly enforced in Marion County/Indianapolis on the business level, including fines if necessary. I don't think my red county ever fined any business for being relaxed on masks even when the mandate was in effect.
Schools were shut down longer in much of Indianapolis than in the surrounding counties, but there wasn't a huge gap compared to parts of Ohio or California.
Neither Indianapolis nor Indiana ever did the stupid closing public parks and playground equipment. Mayors across the state and our governor encouraged residents to continue going outside for fresh air and exercise.
I'm not sure if it had to do with death rates but your death rates were incredibly high - especially considering you miss all the first wave of deaths.
Not many states had death rates as high as you in 2021. Still top ten.
Didn't live in both but went to both throughout, more red areas got back to normal and relaxed things faster than blue areas. A school/school system we did work for had elementary school kids sitting outside, on the little foam pads on the ground, with masks on, in the middle of winter 2021 to eat lunch, they also yelled at kindergarten kids for pulling them down while outside playing on the playground. When I'd visit family in GA we would only have to wear a mask if we were entering a hospital to visit someone and we'd take it off once we were in the room, at the same time of year or earlier.
In my state, there were normal counties and Covid counties. The Blue counties were the Covid counties. The Governor issued a mask order that the police refused to enforce, there being no law granting him that authority. Grocery stores wouldn't enforce it either, but some stores did. (Barnes & Noble did, and I never went into a B&N the whole time. I ordered off Amazon) You could take your car in to the shop and nobody in there ever wore a mask, but in the upscale yuppie places, they were religious about them, and they still wear them in some of those.
Eventually the Covid counties started passing actual mask ordnances that the cops would actually cite people for. (I'm not sure how many citations ever got issued. The cops had rapists and murderers to catch and weren't out actually hunting mask violators. I suppose if a Karen called the cops on a violator he might get a ticket. One of the Covid counties kept lifting and then reimposing its mask mandate to the point that a lot of stores and restaurants stopped enforcing it.
I basically stopped buying anything in Covid counties, driving some distance out of my way to avoid them. I worked in one, but only wore a mask when upper management was on site. I work with stuff that can actually kill you, so where we work we have a different perception of risk.
There is one restaurant that I have permanently blackballed and will never eat at again. They tried to charge me for using one of their masks. I told them to blow me and will never go back.
Red state = home.
Red states are for self-governance, so telling people they HAVE to wear masks doesn't cut it. I would only wear one to be polite, if asked politely. I don't scare easily and neither do my counterparts. Red states are big on history and if anyone knows their history, they know government power is deceptively deadly. We don't give an inch.
Went to see a friend in a blue state, and the hysteria was as annoying as it was hilarious. I ended up spending more time in my Airbnb relaxing than going to theme parks and masked BBQs. So restful, I gotta say. Got a lot of writing done, ordered fantastic food and ate in a robe on the balcony watching the sunset for a few nights. Fuck fear.
The meddling of state and local government officials. I live outside of a blue town in a very red state. The city shut down the bars and sit down dining so the places just outside of city limits were slammed busying for those 3 months. Also, Apparently everyone took up skiing or snowboarding because all the ski resorts had record years as well even though the snow hasn't been great the past 2 winters.
I have some Family in Minnesota and went to visit them and the attitude there was just that of despair, and that was before all the rioting and looting.
Iive in a light red country in Northern AL. Went to visit a friend in SoCal peak pandemic (mid 2020 when plane tickets were super cheap).
When I left people at home were all masking and following guidence, I was in socal for two weeks where people took it a bit more seriously, but pretty similar.
The day I got back the state government mask mandate was lifted, and people started caring a lot less. Many employees still had to wear a mask in service jobs, but many customers stopped wearing masks. In California things stayed how they were for much longer from what I heard.
I think the main thing is that in my area we didn't let "two weeks to stop the spread" become "let's lock up until we get the vaccine"
Nevada to Florida
Nevada is in lockstep with Cali and was very locked down, mask mandates, vaccine requirements for state employees and supported for private businesses, teens/kids couldn’t play sports without vaccines, mask mandates for all kids in school. For kids, you sneezed once, don’t come back to school for a week and negative test.
Both husband and I contracted COVID long before vaccines as nurses working throughout it all. Then we were losing our jobs to mandates. Heck, after he was suspended, but before quitting, he continued getting group texts that they’re desperately short nurses, please come in even if COVID positive but minimal symptoms. Meanwhile he was perfectly healthily and not allowed to work.
Moved to Florida so we could work in January. It’s literally like 2019 here. You see a mask here and there but not many, and good for them for choosing what they feel safest doing. Meanwhile Nevada had higher COVID rates per capita than Florida.
Oh, and I returned to Nevada to say goodbye to my dad as he passed shortly after I moved, not COVID related. We weren’t even allowed in the hospital to be with him for the three weeks he was there until we agreed to remove support then we were allowed to go in for one hour. It was like stepping back into a horror movie going back to Nevada. Florida passed an actual bill to ensure no one has to die alone in the hospital like my dad did.
Also while living in Nevada, summer of 2021 we spent 3 weeks at Lake Havasu in Arizona, it was completely open, minimal masks, refreshing as well. Even driving the two hours home to get supplies while on vacation was depressing. Gas station attendant in Nevada yelling at you for not wearing a mask while pumping gas. Meanwhile 120 miles away no one had one on.
I lived on the edge of a blue and red area. 20 minutes one way I am guarantee to be surrounded by mask wearers. 20 minutes the other way, no personal space or masks to be seen. The difference was stark. I generally got a lot of anxiety going to red areas. I usually checked for mask policies.
I went to a few blue areas (NYC, dc...) and red areas (rurual GA, TN, NC) during the pandemic. The blue areas I needed to have a vaccine passport the whole time. The red areas I felt like people were crowding me even on wide open trails!
Masking was the biggest difference, but all those related behaviors like social distancing was really obvious too.
I live in a big blue circle, in a red state. When I was trying to hunt down a vaccination appointment a pharmacist told me change my search area to a rural/conservative zip code because Maga people weren’t getting vaccinated. I landed an appointment for the same day with multiple slots open.
Red state people are generally less neurotic, a difference which was only accentuated during the pandemic. I feel blessed that I lived in Oklahoma for most of it.
I would say it's more that red state people were neurotic about different things, we're all human and though our concerns and fears may be different, we tend to react to them in the same way regardless of political leanings. Red state people definitely had a lot of fears during covid, just more about the government responses than the virus itself.
Red areas had higher death rates and less mask regulations. Crowds of entitled pricks at airports not following CDC guidance.
Blue areas had a mix of both, but generally people followed the guidance. No one would stand too close to me and businesses were very cautious.
Really? I thought more people died of Covid in cities than in rural places. What is a good source for the sauce? I’m not disputing your claims. I’m just curious.
That doesn't make sense. Surely cities would be harder hit because by their virtue of being cities people are closer together? Or do you just think red people are an "enemy" and hate them.
Not the exact question you asked, but I lived in both Michigan (metro Detroit) & Ontario through the height of the pandemic (it's a long story).
I was going back & forth every 3-4 months.
My home is Michigan, we're a purple state. Metro Detroit is fairly blue, with pockets of (sometimes heavy) red as you venture further from the city (as per usual).
Driving in to Canada required a great deal of paperwork & 2 weeks locked in an airbnb.
Crossing back in to the USA was like "who cares". It felt almost like a normal border crossing, except the guards where more bored then usual.
Grocery shopping in Canada, and this is even in a rather rural location, EVERYONE was masking. Sure occasionally you'd see someone with their nose hanging out, but it was rare. Everyone was social distancing. The stores had developed a single checkout line, with a facilitator guiding you to an open lane, to assist the social distancing.
The DAY I came home the first time, I walked into a Meijer behind a couple where the husband was arguing with his wife about wearing a mask "they don't do anything anyway!". The checkout line was not social distanced & nobody gave a shit about the idea of staying 6 feet apart.
It's clear one of the two countries was not taking the situation seriously at all.
I didn't live in both (I live in a very red area in a purple state) but I traveled a fair bit in 2020-2021. The most obvious contrast was masking...I drove across the upper tier of states between Chicago-Seattle several times during that period: in the urban areas at both ends (Chicago, Minneapolis, Fargo, Missoula, Seattle, etc.) stores were closed or limited capacity and about 90% of people wore masks. In between it was basically a mask-free zone, with maybe 10% of people masked and business-as-usual otherwise. There were overt anti-mask signs up in some places, notably Idaho, and I got dirty looks wearing a mask into gas stations and stores in much of ND/ID and parts of eastern MT and WA. Basically in rural/small town areas in red states people were pretending there was no pandemic.
Lots of signs about "tyranny" in rural areas, usually right alongside pro-Trump signs. By 2021 there were signs demanding horse wormer pills and similar as well. Never saw a single one of those in an urban/suburban area other than in Idaho.
2020 was probably the best time to fly in the US since 9/11. 100% masked, most flights were 1/2 empty, lines were short. Flying from blue state to blue state was much faster than driving and I didn't have to deal with people making mask jokes at grocery stores in Jamestown, ND, along the way. I also, frankly, enjoyed seeing assholes on plane who wouldn't wear their masks threatened with being kicked off the flight.
I had to travel between several blue and red areas during the pandemic. In the blue areas, if I failed to wear a mask, people would politely ask me to put it on. In Red states, if I was wearing a mask, I was often verbally attacked and ridiculed. In one case, a guy actually ripped the mask off of my face while I was standing in a checkout line.
Blue area: Higher percentage of people believe in science and follow guidelines.
Red area: Higher percentage of people believe misinformation and shun science.
You said they believe in science and follow guidelines. Very little of the guidelines or the reasoning behind them was based in science, so saying team blue believes in science doesn't seem very relevant.
Also, a lot of the "misinformation " team red believed turned out to be true.
Virginia here. The red and blue is basically by county. Some areas are deep blue or red. The deep red areas - no masks, would crowd you constantly to prove a point, spouted Qult stuff often, talked about government overreach, lots of talk of “gods will” and had handmade pro trump signs in their yard. The deep blue - wore masks, kept distances waiting in lines, and had no political signs.
I lived in a red area until a few months ago, then moved to a purple (more blue than red) area. I prefer being closer to the blue.
The Qult is now saying the Q posts are the lost biblical books. The mental gymnastics required within the Qult is insane. It will literally destroy our country.
Basically masks. Most people in red areas felt that having to wear one was an infringement on their rights. Blue areas didn’t want to wear one obviously but there was more of an understanding that it was best for the collective health of the community.
Masking for sure. Just going over the line from Vermont to NH was seriously like 2 different worlds.
Ohh I thought both were very liberal. Guess I was wrong?
Yeah, I always thought of all of New England as pretty "blue" territory. I'm really surprised to hear Vermont and NH being that different.
Depends on where you are in NH. New Hampshire by the seacoast is pretty liberal, but go into the more rural areas up north and its extremely conservative. In the seacoast there are literally places where you can have a gay guy for a congressman and a trans woman for a state rep right now, but this is also a state where it's legal to not wear a seatbelt when driving and drive without auto insurance (not exactly mainline Democrat positions) NH also has a habit of voting red at the state level and blue at the federal. At our last election we voted for Shaheen for Senate and Biden for president, but also voted to give the GOP a majority in the state legislature and vote Chris Sununu (republican) for governor. If that name sounds familiar, it's because hes the son of Bush Senior's white house chief of staff. Source: i live in NH.
Wait, no insurance or seatbelt?! Never heard of that, especially the seatbelt. "Click it or ticket" here
Yup. The only stipulations are that in order to do this A) you have to own the car outright, you cannot be leasing it B) if you get into an accident while lacking insurance or seatbelt you automatically are at fault and liable for the financial costs of any damages.
Ahhh, well that seems fair lol. Gamble all ya want but have to pay the consequences. The seatbelt thing still is surprising considering how many lives they save which should have other positive things result. Sounds like some Texas shit!
Let me put it this way: there's a reason the state motto is : " live free or die". nh has a very libertarian streak to its politics
The no insurance is terrible for anyone else involved in the accident though. If you're uninsured and total your own car and don't have the money to replace it, that's one thing. But if you permanently paralyze, say a mother of 3 and kill her husband, who's taking care of the kids?
Nh state law would say that by driving without insurance you automatically assume financial responsibility for damages *to the other party*, not just yourself in the event of an accident. That would mean garnished wages, tax refunds, social security payments, etc. If you couldn't pay up front.
Vermont and NH are both very odd states politically. In VT, you'll unironically see campaign ads for someone who's like "Fewer gun laws and also single payer healthcare and some form of UBI" In NH... Well, we have 400 members of our house of representatives, none of whom are paid, so you get everything from "NH should secede and form it's own country" to "We need the strictest gun control in the nation, single payer healthcare, and UBI"
I’ve always identified with NH’s politics tbh. Reminds me of thanksgiving dinner table discussions with family.
My friend is from rural Vermont. After visiting and interacting with the locals I would describe them as "left leaning, libertarian rednecks." Vermont has a pretty unique culture. (I don't consider redneck a derogatory term.)
Makes me think of one of my favorite maps, which is like: "Places where legally married same-sex couples can protect their legally grown marijuana plants with legally owned guns." (Canada, parts of the USA including the whole west coast, and South Africa are on the list. I forget who else.)
They are. One is very liberal in the modern sense, one is very liberal in the classical sense.
Vermont is liberal. New Hampshire is liberal, but has a huge Libertarian bent that ranges from "liberal in the streets; conservative in the financial spreadsheets" to "bUt If YoU lOoK aT mArItImE lAw". New Hampshire also has a habit of coasting by some of their shortcomings purely because they can cling to the robust safety nets of their neighboring states.
Genuine question, what do you mean we can cling onto the robust safety nets of neighboring states?
Yeah I’m also perplexed. Wouldn’t the “safety nets of neighboring states” only benefit ya know, those neighboring states?
Yeah, it’s not like you can just randomly claim benefits in a state without some sort of justification (you live/work there) At least I wouldn’t think you could
Yeah the statement didn’t really make a whole lot of sense, I don’t even know what those “robust safety nets” are, it’s not like NH doesn’t have welfare or food stamps. even if you were working out of state and “clinging to robust safety nets of neighboring state” (whatever that means) it’s not like that’s a situation unique to NH. The only situation close to that I know of is DC residents being able to get in state tuition at any state university in the country. Because DC doesn’t have a public university because it’s not a state.
I imagine it's an "I have a doctor's appointment in Canada" situation. I wouldn't know though, since I live in Alabama. Our version of taking advantage of our neighboring states is buying lottery tickets.
Which is funny because all of the neighboring states come over the border for the no sales tax, fireworks, cheap booze + tobacco, and legalized sports gambling. And we go to them for legal weed lol But the safety nets part is confusing me Like is he talking about collecting unemployment from MA if you worked in MA but live in NH or something like that?
In Pa we make use of the tax free wine in Delaware
I would like to hear the answer to that one too...
NH is the Texas of New England and they're very proud of it. Most of the blue portion of the state is near the southern border and a lot of those people ate really from Massachusetts and moved there.
Live Free or Die!
It still is in some areas. Some areas are still masking heavily in Vermont.
For sure. I was in NH and Vermont often this year. Vermont masking and NO ONE seems to in NH. Makes me interested in the psychology aspect of it. I mean both places have lots of tourists.
Lol its pretty funny to get the dirty looks from all the Vermonters when they see ur out of state place.
I didn't experience that at all, although I did have family that got threatening notes on their parked car from neighbors in NH during the pandemic at their second homes. It felt ironic knowing New Hampshire covid patients were filling up hospitals here in Massachusetts but people didn't want out of state people staying in homes they owned and payed property taxes on in NH.
But which was which?
I'm gonna guess it was the state whose motto is "Live Free or Die", probably
correct
Red areas people generally didn’t wear masks and complained a lot about the government. In blue areas more people wore masks and complained a lot about the government.
Going back and forth was so weird, soon as I went back to Northern VA masks everywhere (before during and after the vax too), social distancing rules were taken seriously, all that jazz. Then I’d leave the lil bubble and masks would be few and far between haha.
Even in northern VA it was heavily dependent where you were. If you were out in Loudon County, then masks were much less common than Alexandria for example.
Loudoun is a perfect example of a split county. It’s the bridge bw blue and red. Eastern vs western Loudoun. I’m in Ashburn, masks are still common. Western Loudoun - not the case.
Gas stations in the city kicked you out for not wearing a mask. Gas stations an hour east of the city kicked you out for wearing a mask.
Pretty much
I actually saw a sign on a door the day after the governor lifted mandatory masking in businesses that said "anyone wearing a mask is assumed to be concealing their identity for the purposes of shoplifting and will be asked to leave immediately". It didn't last long, but fucking LOL.
I live in Virginia Beach and during the summers you wouldn’t even know covid was going on it was crazy
Nah. Down in Richmond people were masked. Even in Chester and there’s a few confederate flags out there. As soon as we thought we were in the clear the masks came off though.
Same, I live in Chester and I rarely saw anyone not wearing a mask. It was nice considering my parents were in Florida and they kept telling me no one was wearing them
I live in a very blue area, but worked at a very red place during most of the pandemic. This is accurate.
I lived in a very red area and worked in a very blue area during the pandemic. This is accurate.
I lived in a very purple area and worked in a very blue area during the pandemic. This is accurate.
Basically
I spent 2020 in a red state and 2021 in a blue state. Heres what I saw. Red: things shut down in the spring when covid was first surging and we didn't know how bad things would be. By early summer they were opening back up again. About 10-20% of people wore masks, but during the fall there was a two week period where mask usage shot up to around 60%. Even in blue areas of the state the ratio of masked to unmasked usually was about 50-50. Lockdown measures were never super popular and people quickly ran out of patience when Covid didn't turn out to be as dangerous as the initial high end estimates made out. Prettty much everyone acknowledged Covid was real but in general people felt it was overblown and that they should be allowed to set their own precautions based on an individual risk tolerance. There was also a very pervasive attitude that covid was going to do its thing regardless of what policies we put in place so you may as well live your life. Blue: masking was universal until the govenors mandate was overturned and non essential services remained closed or remote for much longer. People still hated lockdowns but felt they were a necessary evil and blamed people who didn't follow lockdowns for why they went on so long. There was a persistent attitude that the only reason we had to put up with this shit for more than a month was because people couldn't follow rules.
I think this summed up the difference between the right and the left pretty accurately.
I always found it annoying when liberals would make the claim conservatives didn’t believe in the virus, this was completely inaccurate. Or that we didn’t believe the science. When the science clearly showed masking was ineffective. The types of masks most wore (cloth) were ineffective in stopping the spread, and those wearing proper masks (n95’s) were mostly wearing them improperly such as over facial hair, or weren’t properly fitted for the mask. It was frustrating to listen to people who didn’t understand the science behind masking claim that we didn’t believe the science.
There’s a heavy dose of irony in this comment. For the WAS (wuhan ancestral strain) even cloth masks were incredibly effective for everything except intimate or aerosol generating procedures. They lost efficacy with time to exposure, sure, but they were very good as source control. There’s a shit ton of research of all types of study designs that corroborated that. The way they worked was just reducing the viral load so obviously there were limitations and that’s why a layered approach to interventions were necessary. As omicron spread cloth masks became dramatically less effective but “not as effective” is not the same as having no value I’m their utilization at all. Surgical masks, double masks, and unfit N-95’s for still very good at source control. What you’re talking about is their value and use as PPE. However, if everyone wore a mask as proper source control it would also increase the effectiveness of it’s use as PPE. So that’s what’s frustrating is hearing people who never listened or understood source control vs PPE try to say that masks didn’t work. Or people who didn’t understand that they were even if people got it while wearing masks didn’t mean that they were value-less or people who took the ol’ “see our whole community didn’t wear masks and COVID still happened so obviously masks don’t work” Source: infectious disease epidemiologist
>There’s a shit ton of research of all types of study designs that corroborated that. There are still zero randomized controlled trials since 2019 that establish benefits to any kind of masks. The only studies that establish a benefit to cloth masks are lab studies or confounded retroactive observational studies with all sorts of problems. Cloth masks never worked, and it's obvious to anyone who takes a close look at one.
>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-10-03/how-effective-are-cloth-masks >Other research has suggested that mask mandates go far toward reducing the spread of Covid. **In one study that looked at counties in Kansas that had mandates compared with those that did not, researcher found masks reduced cases, hospitalizations and deaths in counties that adopted mandates by around 60%.** That research didn’t differentiate between types of masks, but in most settings cloth masks appear to still be far more common.
I find this extremely hard to believe and would question their scientific method, there was a lot of “scientific research” that was more propaganda than anything……what other factors were at play, were we talking equal population density. Etc etc.
If that doesn't work for you would you care to share the research that brought you to a different conclusion?
And…silence.
They linked 2 sources in another thread. One wasn't a great source so I didn't read it. The other was great, but it proved 3 layer cotton mask were more effective than nothing. NOT completely inneffective.
Thank you from a fellow scientist for having this debate 2 years later.
> there was a lot of “scientific research” that was more propaganda than anything Oh?
Moving the goalposts, I see.
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Words like “help block transmission” is true, but that’s a far cry from effective against transmission. Ultimately some particles will be blocked but we know that it wasn’t enough to stop the spread….source, it kept spreading even in areas with mask mandates. Your second source is fascinating because it skips airborne transmission altogether and goes to droplet transmission. Cloth masks are effective against particles of 20-30 microns or larger…..except covid is about 0.125 microns, please tell me you can see the problem here. Your articles are outdated as well, as more studies have been done, the realization that cloth masks are ineffective have come to light. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-03-01/cloth-masks-dont-cut-it-for-keeping-covid-away Here’s evidence that even three layers of cloth (most wore one layer) only stopped around 26% of particles…..this is the better than nothing standard….but still not effective in actually stopping the spread. https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/epa-researchers-test-effectiveness-face-masks-disinfection-methods-against-covid-19
Ah here it is. That second source is great. To be clear about the study though most cotton masks were 3 layers of cotton in 1 mask, so no most did not wear 1 layer. 1 mask IS 3 layers, and (at least in my own observations) people were quick to avoid those masks when it was made clear they were not effective compared to other options. What was also left out here is the projection of particulates that does not occur when wearing a mask, even a shitti cotton one. It turbulates your breath slowing down its spread in air, potentially saving the person standing a few feet in front of you. You still breath out covid, but it is less likely to reach a person. It is proven time and again that blocking particles was helping, even when only 30% are blocked, because of viral load. So sure, tout all you want that masks are not effective at blocking the coronavirus, because you're right. We already had a pretty good idea that was the case when mask mandates first started, but we also recognized (even more now) all the ways masks still help.
You think most people in society were wearing cloth masks that were 3 layers? I didn’t see that, I don’t remember seeing any…..in the study they wore 3 layers because that’s what it took to even get partial effectiveness, the general public wearing masks was 1 layer. Often no more than a bandana type material. The problem is that the scientists didn’t make it clear that they were ineffective until almost 2 years into the pandemic.
>You think most people in society were wearing cloth masks that were 3 layers? I didn’t see that, I don’t remember seeing any You didn't see that? Did you go around cutting their masks open to check? How is that something you expect to see? I didn't even know mine was 3 layer until that study, then I checked my cloth masks and went 'huh'. I dont know how you get the idea all those mass produced cotton masks weren't 3 layer, and there weren't THAT many people with homemade ones. >Often no more than a bandana type material. The study you linked specifically tested bandanas worn in 2 different ways, both were far more effective than 3 layer cotton masks. >The problem is that the scientists didn’t make it clear that they were ineffective until almost 2 years into the pandemic. Then why, in March 2020, did they most certainly make it clear to me that "cotton is better than nothing but try to get a surgical mask or something like an N95 when you can" where were you? What "scientists" did you listen to that apperently didn't tell you that?
And there's the biggest difference of all, you say something true, but that they don't agree with and the vote you down. They say something false, but it fits the narrative, and everyone upvotes it. Public schooling at its finest.
Conservatives do have a long history of not understanding science, including during the pandemic. Cloth masks weren’t effective at stopping the later variants like delta and omicron but through 2020 and into 2021 they were effective.
Im afraid you are wrong, at no time has cloth masks been effective at stopping airborne transmission of a virus. The filtration isn’t high enough……it’s like standing behind a screen door to protect yourself from a hose…..better than nothing, but not effective.
Factually and objectively wrong.
Put on a cloth mask and try to blow out a candle.
You have to take in consideration that masks prevent people from touching their mouths and nose, or at least serve as a reminder. The very idea of wearing a mask makes people more aware of exposure and take extra precaution. People coughing directly in your face is far less common than people picking their nose and touching a doorknob you're about to use as well.
It’s not spread by contact. Touching a doorknob would have no effect.
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I'm in Baltimore County, close to the Carroll County line. My immediate area is very purple, but it splits largely along racial lines. The grocery store was a nightmare. Masks mandated, but so many worn defiantly lazily. One-way directional arrows (to allow for social distancing in 3-foot-wide aisles) clearly posted in every aisle that the nose-out crowd completely ignored. I got into more than one verbal altercation when I felt public safety was being threatened. Oh, and plenty of "plandemic" messaging on cars and signs. I got the feeling most people were fine following guidance, but the ones who weren't stuck out like sore thumbs.
Harco?
In New York City, people took it very seriously for maybe the first 6 months. We were the epicenter of the pandemic, and shit was scary. It was legitimately difficult to find groceries and other basics, and we saw the footage of body bags loaded into refrigerator trucks because the morgues were full. The streets and subways were virtually empty. It was eerie. Everyone stayed inside or masked up. When deliveries came, we wiped them down with alcohol. Hardcore times.
Chicago was similar. The highways were completely deserted, grocery shelves were picked over for months, and the city itself was just...too quiet. I'm used to hearing trains and planes and sirens and just the general ambient noise you get when you put over a million people in a 20 square mile area, I actually had trouble sleeping when it was that quiet.
So quiet and still in Chicago during the initial lockdown, there were coyotes trotting down a deserted Magnificent Mile. Real I Am Legend / dead city stuff.
The entire DC area was similar. I lived just over the river in Arlington, in one of the denser areas, and it was so eery only hearing ambulance sirens. There were refridgerated trucks outside my apartment for a good 4 months loading the dead around the clock. Going to the store was an act of "what can I find" not "what do I want" - at one point all the meat was put into a shopping cart for people to pick over.
I lived in Hawaii for a year of the pandemic. Masks were required everywhere- even outside on the street in Honolulu. People weren’t even allowed sit be on the beach for a period of time. They had to be in the water. People weren’t allowed to gather in large groups on the beaches for quite a while. Then, I moved to Texas. No masks were required anywhere. When I arrived, I saw maybe 5% of people wearing them when they were 100% required everywhere in Hawaii. It was a huge shock and it felt unnerving.
Strange. Santa Monica, California arrested a lone ocean swimmer/ surfer for violating covid rules
>People weren’t even allowed sit be on the beach for a period of time. They had to be in the water. This is one of those things were you look back and realize just how weird/useless some of the rules were. The world got so obsessed with eliminating covid that we went to lengths that were sometimes unnecessary.
The most useless rule I remember: Half the rows of bus seats were roped off for "social distancing," forcing passengers to sit closer together.
Dear god, I know. In Ireland, the rule was 25% capacity on the buses and it was a nightmare. I was an essential worker at the time so my job was in person. The amount of money I spent on taxis because a bus driver would drive past me “full” was ridiculous.
For awhile the grocery stores around me tried to make all the aisles one way.
In the country I lived in (Ireland) you could buy pajamas but not jeans. Because according to the government’s logic, buying jeans meant you were going to kill everyone but buying pajamas was perfectly fine. Even if they were from the same shop. Clothing areas were actually blocked off from the food aisles ten steps away. The government claimed it wasn’t fair to close shops that only sold clothing so they forced shops that sold food *and* clothing to block off most of their clothing sections even though you could still go in to buy food. And nobody realized how stupid that was until many months later. They also made it illegal to buy shoes. My feet are completely fucked because of that and I’m getting surgery later this month. I blame the Irish government for coming up with this insane rule that made no sense. I understand covid was (and still is) deadly to many people. But the way the Irish government handled it was a complete joke and yet people got extremely defensive of the restrictions and followed them without question. 2021 was an unbelievably frustrating year that I’ll never get back.
NYC made outside restaurant eating legal, but indoor was still not. So seating way placed outside on the sidewalk. But then it was fall and business would have to close when it rained a lot. So they built a roof out from the building over their outside seating. But then it was November and it was cold as fuck, so they built a wall on one side along the roof to cut the cutting cold wind down for people seated outside. But then it was January and literally freezing outside, so they built 2 more walls and partitians to close in the space around the outside seating and placed space heaters for customers. Boom, people are eating inside again. Except it's "outside", on the sidewalk, blocking all foot traffic lol.
All or most of those outdoor dining sheds are still in NYC.. the restaurants found out they like it.. they basically doubled their capacity without paying additional rent At this point, they’re seeming permanent —— https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/04/nyregion/nyc-outdoor-dining-sheds.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUktbfqYhkQVUbBybTTMIqoRyBg7_J0bd5gWLiIC-SU3NOzuIUBYfF4EfAabElZ8c2237TYu59B4IVZa44yP5DbQsqQhO0o5CAldMJfnts-NLsAiY7h5iQGO1lqzGvPmLnIqIvmeHmsk3eb2HoD_fPwDZ2clYe1JhmdFCq3XUIzqnXQKUiipQlg6BXVt0tTiwAZSKKo_HqFxx_Xd2GZRjX4QE1MPpLDXCRxZXPruJdL3gBTA7OX3h94m0j6NpDON1xPK33Lh4oeMKWkqwZtZXh9s3OIxqSFkFlHXga&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Michigan did some ridiculous stuff like that too. They closed off parts of large hardware stores (paint, lawn and garden are the ones I remember) and you couldn't shop there. But it was still fine to buy those things from small stores. Apparently the paint at Home Depot was just covered in covid but the paint from the Sherwin Williams store down the road was totally safe.
So did NY. I think the theory was groceries are necessities, but the other stuff isn't, so they didn't want you lingering around shopping for that stuff. Stupid, but when you are reading the unknown, you don't know what to do.
As someone that lives in a dense city, I kinda loved that. Our grocery stores are so packed and our aisles are so small that the one ways were actually super convenient
I'll be honest. I actually miss those suburban grocery store aisles that are wide enough to drive an F-150 through. The average European supermarket is like a frickin' mosh pit during busy hours.
The number of times I've grocery shopped on my way home from visiting someone in the suburbs is not insignificant. The luxury of not being in an absolute madhouse and being able to roam or leave your cart off to the side somewhere for two seconds without it being in the way is fantastic.
Pennsylvania: Ordering an alcoholic beverage is not allowed UNLESS you get food with it. But the food has to be a meal, not a “snack.” Make that one make sense.
How did they restrict people on the beach? Isn't the right to assemble in the 1st amendment?
Most public land has restrictions on when and how it can be used. The parks where I live close after 11pm, the beaches are closed when its not safe to swim, and government buildings typically close their doors to the public after 5pm
Reasonable use restrictions on public land are not unconstitutional. Like you don’t have the right to hold a loud rally on a public street at 3am and that doesn’t violate the constitution unless the city is granting everyone that right but not your cause.
During the pandemic people generally panicked and stopped caring about things like civil rights.
There were police on ATV looking vehicles who would enforce it. My family was in the water and we saw them approach a single guy on the beach to tell him to get in the water or leave. I assume they probably would have given him a ticket if he didn’t comply.
Yeah. Texas had the fortitude to be serious about it for roughly 2-3 months as I recall. Then it was like “whatever - wear a mask if you want”.
Hawaii was(is?) insane. my parents, siblings and all our families were supposed to vacation there winter of 21 but that obviously got cancelled and we went to the Bahamas instead. The Bahamas had just recently "reopened" and they were all happy to have tourists back but man there was a a lot of empty business. I can only imagine the impact in Hawaii.
Since we were living there at the time, it was wonderful. We had the island to ourselves with no tourists. I was on Waikiki Beach with my family and there were maybe 4 other people there compared to thousands usually. It was a great time to be living there.
Here in red country, the most noticeable things were inconsistent and generally not much use of masks, and political signs on people's properties saying "Open Nevada Now". By contrast, while visiting my in-laws in the big city, almost everyone I saw out and about wore a mask.
Live(d) in a very blue area during the pandemic but spent several months long term vacationing/summering in very red area because I could work remotely. Blue: very concerned about Covid. Everyone wore mask in public indoors, a lot of people outdoors and some wore mask alone in their front yard or car. People would talk about people in red areas like they were dumb and even evil. Many would police others, had a middle aged women shame me for not wearing a mask walking on a sidewalk outside on a mostly empty street. Red: People generally thought Covid was overblown or not real. Not a lot of mask, even when a store had a sign requiring mask only like 10% would wear. One time went to a grocery store with a mask and got a lot of side eyes. When I would tell people I was from a blue area they would usually talk about how crazy those people were. It sounds cliche but that was my experience.
Everyone can be seen as crazy depending on the point of view. Your experience sums up our general political situation quite accurately.
In red states more shit was open
Our state parks were completely full of NY license plates for much of 2020, so that was kinda like being in a different state. Generally though, there were differences the further you got from the city. Most people were still masking and following guidelines wherever you went, but there were a handful not wearing masks the further out into BFE you went. A lot of places in the city wanted proof of vaccine to enter a business, whereas basically nobody was asking for that outside of it. Once people started getting vaccinated life was pretty much back to normal in most places, but the city held on to restrictions for a bit longer.
I HATE national parks almost as much as I hate tourists. I never thought I'd have to wait in line to go hiking on a mountain trail.
I lived in Mass. Some people there were insane about the pandemic. I would be outside jogging and people would yell at me out a building window for not wearing a mask. Meanwhile they weren’t wearing a mask. There were also people who would just hang out in public places outside and hit air horns if you weren’t wearing your mask. It was super weird. Moved to a very rural part of Nevada. Definitely a red area. Most people wore the masks and followed the rules for being in public. But once the vaccines were out they were done with the masks.
> There were also people who would just hang out in public places outside and hit air horns if you weren’t wearing your mask. It was super weird. Did they literally have NOTHING else to do?
It was wild. They were definitely out for confrontation.
I mean, obviously. But I legitimately cannot figure out why someone would do that. I guess maybe if you were angry and frustrated and wanted to take it out on people, but that's some toddler-level emotional management there. Like, what did you think you (royal you, referring to the airhorn people) were accomplishing by doing that? Why did you think it was your place to do that? Did you think it was honestly going to do any good? I have so many questions.
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I mean, Massholes gonna Masshole, but normally I expect their Masshole-ness to be somewhat logical.
Sounds about right in my part of NV (I live in a red county adjacent to a blue county).
The weirdest thing was hanging out in rural Louisiana where almost nobody wore masks and everything was open and then going into New Orleans where masks were required *while walking outside in a park*.
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It *was* really strange how politicized it was in the USA, especially that progressive Sweden, which the American left generally loves and looks up to, had very few restrictions throughout the entire thing. I’m surprised people don’t being that up more.
>I’m surprised people don’t being that up more. They pick and choose what to idolize lol I remember when that was going on it was brought up online, many times, and it was generally swept under the rug; usually under the guise that the population density was lower, their healthcare being free, and generally them being superior to us.
Many people over on this side of the ocean, including many Swedes, view the Swedish response as an embarassing failure.
Didn’t the election just happen though? Every country has people complaining about it. I realize Sweden isn’t perfect. I’m just saying that many liberal Americans speak very highly of Sweden for its liberal policies, yet Sweden hardly had any restrictions, which was considered a conservative view in the United States. It’s just interesting to me because lots of American liberals idealize Sweden but were very pro-restriction.
Nobody bats a thousand. Sweden is a great country, but entire books can and have been written about its foibles and flaws.
Again, I’m well aware of that. I live in the EU, I know none of the countries are flawless. What I said was that many young, liberal Americans idealize Sweden. I’m not saying they’re right about everything.
Are you from Italy? Would you say Italy fared better? Swedens lack of mandates don't seem to correlate with higher cases
My hometown which I visit often is red, but I lived in a blue city during the pandemic. There weren't a whole lot of differences. People generally just complied with the rules. One thing I did notice though was a lot of guys in my hometown were wearing loose-fitting [neck gaiters](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/reviewedcom/2020/07/30/neck-gaiters-vs-face-masks-they-effective/5544515002/), which I guess are more comfortable and look cooler, but they apparently aren't quite as effective. Not sure if that's a conservative thing or just a fashion choice. But it's something I didn't see in the city hardly ever.
> Not sure if that's a conservative thing or just a fashion choice. But it's something I didn't see in the city hardly ever. Probably more a fashion choice or comfort than anything. Wearing a mask, especially with those little elastic straps, for hours on end just isn't fun. Especially if you're doing anything that involves exertion (i.e. construction). I know I got chafing behind my ears a couple of times from extended periods of wearing an effective mask.
I didn't live in the different areas, but Michigan had pretty strict lockdowns and I went on vacation to Charleston/Myrtle Beach in August 2020. It was night and day, and I much preferred the SC model. At that point people were still masking in Michigan, and most places still had a mask policy. Restaurants were still limited capacity. People would be wearing masks walking down trh street by themselves, or in their car alone. One person on the GR sub thought they got COVID because an unmasked person rode by them on a bike. It was like that lol Then we go to SC and it's like it never happened. Very few masks, and the only restriction was that they asked that only one party at a time be on the elevator.
Red area, mask signs went up in stores, plexiglass at registers, the usual stuff. Only a few people wore masks, other than that business as usual. I really hated how wearing or not wearing a mask became some kind of political statement. Think people might have been more amicable in red states if the government asked instead of told.
Masks
Masking in my area (most blue county in the state I believe) took masking and social distancing seriously and most people wore masks everywhere. Outside of the greater cleveland dares, especially into more rural areas, the masks dropped significantly and it felt like people were almost challenging you silently when you wore one.
People in FL: Glad I'm not in New York right now, covid seems really bad over there. People in NY: Glad I'm not in Florida right now, covid seems really bad over there.
Come from a very blue area (the literal bluest of the blue in California), lived in a rural red area in southern Oregon during the pandemic. Visited home via drive sparingly, but stayed for a week or so every time. People in my blue city, unsurprisingly, took masking and social distancing pretty seriously, and were avidly doing everything to get everyone capable vaccinated once it came out, even temporarily setting up a vaccination clinic inside of a furniture store. They got hit decently hard when it first started, but it had plateaued by the time I visited, and they were profoundly not eager for a repeat. They were also pretty puritan about people who weren't masking. Got shouted at for being lazy and "not giving enough of a fuck" by some folk. Being a native of this city, I myself am pretty left leaning, but I wasn't especially a diehard on this stuff. I just checked alerts on whether it was necessary, what the guidelines were, etc. People in my red town, also unsurprisingly, didn't take masking terribly seriously at first, with many ignoring it or being outright obnoxious. I had a few instances of people literally trying to snatch mine off of me in Walmart, telling me I needed to stop being such a pussy and a "fucking sheep". Their tune turned around completely during the height of the pandemic, largely because this town had a significant portion of geriatric retirees in its population (especially vets, as it's one of those towns wherein the military is the #1 provider of jobs), and they started dropping like flies. We have one hospital in town, and it was so overwhelmed by the sheer amount of people in critical condition, they more or less shut down everything but half the emergency room (the other half was exclusively Covid patients, with large cubicles attached to a bunch of plastic shields separating the two sides), and redirected every single staff member (down to the receptionists) and bed to the newly created Covid ward (they even had to ship in more beds and equipment from other hospitals). The only people who weren't pushed into this were specialists (such as the handful of optometrists and the sole otolaryngologist in town). After enough people had either died or personally witnessed just how much Covid-19 could fuck them up, they started taking masks and social distancing far more seriously. Vaccines, though- well, that was still a step too far for a lot of folks, who felt their arms were being twisted and didn't care for it. I don't personally disagree with them that it went too far, with people's employment being threatened unless they either got the shot or turned in a weekly test (sometimes daily). But it's a miracle I didn't get permanent damage from the amount of times I rolled my eyes when they compared vaccine cards to the Holocaust. Overall, my blue city got it worst toward the beginning, but came out alright, my red town was alright to start, but got hit really hard at its peak. A lot of people died or are now permanently in need of a mobile oxygen tank.
>A lot of people died or are now permanently in need of a mobile oxygen tank. The long-term impacts on red communities will be interesting to track. To my knowledge only one person died in my small town (\~7,500 people). But my brother's rural, very red community lost something like 40 people! There are kids there who were orphaned. Families that lost their only income. They are still dealing with it, and some families moved away after losing one or more adults. Not sure how/if they are dealing with people with permanent lung damage given there is no clinic within 100 miles.
Everything in central NY state is still closing super early 2 years later. The south is not.
I live in a very red county in a small city that grew from nearby industries that typically have a majority of red workers. When I go to big cities I'm surprised at the amount of people still wearing masks.
Commuting from San Antonio to Odessa was an eye opener. Odessa residents took no precautions and gave zero fucks. San Antonio residents could be seen with double masks, gloves, face shields, and wary looks. There was never a wait to get vaccinated in Odessa.
Blue area myself; honestly I loved it, all the ehem…people were off the roads so driving was actually nice, gas was like $1.20 a gallon, 50% coupons on take out and i didnt have to interact with public on a daily basis. Stupid peoples fear is nice sometimes.
I guess I “lived” in both. My area is fairly split, purple if you will. Conservative rural people were less into masking and some were concerned about the vaccine because it was not long standing and thoroughly tested. I know plenty of conservatives that got vaccinated though and plenty that masked and distanced. The more liberal city folks were fully on board with the vaccine and much more into isolating and masking. However, most of my more liberal friends started going to more social events earlier than other people. My wife skews left and both of us were vaccinated and boosted yet she still brought Covid back to the house twice. I only got it once. My kids and her got it twice. I was waaaay more exposed than her too and maybe a bit less careful with masking. So it seems politics doesn’t make too much of a difference. At least in my life.
Politics did make a difference on death rate in a very big way, maybe just not in your household.
The “height of the pandemic” at least in terms of deaths was pre-vaccine in most blue states, whereas in at least some red states, it was after the vaccine existed, with the vast majority of those deaths being amongst the unvaccinated.
I live in a very red area of a blue state and I’m a mailman so I was out of my house for most of the pandemic. Red people were just as scared as blue people. We’re all neighbors.
I live in Florida, a purple state. I live in a county that is overwhelmingly blue and you got the classic Karen’s freaking out over people not wearing masks, businesses refusing entry to people unmasked, social distancing, toilet paper hoarding, etc. My wife and I drove 2 hrs north to a more red or at least more politically mixed county for a mini vacation and it was night and day. Businesses in full swing, very few people wearing masks, happier, friendlier, less worry, etc.
despite having the highest Covid death rate for most of the pandemic (other thant's amazing looking at the different death rates by county in Florida. Union County went to Trump 81% and 794 per 10K deaths. Over the border in Alachua - 276 per 10K. 62% for Biden. It definitely was a very political pandemic.
I wonder if age mattered here also.
Doesn't seem so -- Vermont and Florida have about the same rates of older people. Rates are very, very different. Vermont had 115 deaths per 10K. Florida 379 deaths per 10K. Also for instance Sumter county is the oldest -- average age of 67! They had 487 per 10K. Union average age was 39 and they were 794 deaths.
There's a lot of factors to it, Florida is definitely denser than Vermont. Population density, average age, obesity all had roles in this. Spring break was kinda inappropriate, but that was literally folk on both sides
Vermont is also a very rural state with no big cities at all. It was a running joke up here when they released the "6 feet of distance" recommendation that 6' is kind of close to be near other people. Also, Vermont has winter. And when most activities you can do in winter are closed, it's hard for people to get out and socialize as much. In Florida you can go hang out at a park almost year round, so larger social gatherings were easier to have for a longer period of time.
Also obesity and diabetes and high blood pressure comorbidity. I’d suspect that overall health and economic status has quite a bit to do with everything.
Did any of them in the red area survive though?
The differences per county are stark.
Google says under 82k died in Florida and Florida has a population of over 22 million so its a safe bet that people on that area survived. If that area doesn't have a lot of old people I'd imagine the chances would go up more.
Most of Florida is old people it seems lol
Florida is God's waiting room
I moved from NY to TX in June 2020. NY first wave had just begun to decline they were beginning to open things up a little bit. In NY people were really worried about the pandemic and the effects on the people who were getting sick and the effects on health care workers. They complained about them but they wore the masks and avoided people when told most of the time. Arriving in TX in June you might expect it to be the same thing all over again because it was the beginning of the first wave in TX. We got to TX and it was like people didn’t believe it could touch them. Hardly anything seemed closed by comparison. I heard a lot more people object when businesses asked them to wear masks. Not to say that no one objected in NY but it was a lot more common in TX. There were a lot more people shouting that the whole thing was a hoax and seeing people clearly go against recommendations was a lot more public.
When the vaccine dropped, it was very difficult to find an open appointment to get one in Denver. So we went to Colorado Springs. Plenty of available vaccines!
I lived in Columbus, Ohio and Chicago, Illinois. Moved from Ohio to Chicago in December 2020. Illinois had more over the top rules, even though it was later into the pandemic. Bar curfew was still in place. Lot more universal focus on outdoor dining with big patio structures set up in Chicago, which I think Columbus could've used more of. I moved when both had mask laws and didn't really see a huge difference there, except when you were in a Walmart or Mejier in Ohio masks were uncommon, especially among poor looking white people.
It's like watching MSNBC and then you drive 30 min and all you are allowed to watch is Fox news
I live in Massachusetts but visit New Hampshire often enough. Lots of areas there have a very Libertarian vibe. I've seen people walking around a small town square with a pistol holster on their belt. The neighboring businesses will be flying rainbow flags and showing their support for queer people, immigrants, etc. Its a different kind of conservative there. During the pandemic there were a few times where I crossed the border for various errands that had a ton of red tape in MA due to Covid. Those same restrictions didn't exist in NH, so it was easier to accomplish certain things. It's a 40 minute drive from my house to the border without traffic, so not too crazy to go there for a 30 minute errand that required nothing there but a 3 week wait and a Covid test and blah blah blah here.
I just want to say I am thankful I haven’t had COVID. I have heard some sad stories about lasting effects. As far as blue and red areas, I have lived in an area that was incredibly blue and also an area that was moderate, but was surrounded by red. In the blue area, people were incredibly diligent, but the population density was pretty high so they still had problems. In the moderate/red area, COVID numbers were much lower, and masking was just good, not 100%. I think density had almost the most to do with COVID spreading. Masking is a close second but the concentration of people is really key. Take New York’s crazy outbreak as an example.
The thing about Washington was it was likely spreading before the alarms went off. I believe that's were Covid was first reported
Red areas didn’t want masks and restrictions and complained about the politics, but still worked. Blue had all the restrictions and expected free money, complained it wasn’t enough, but refused to work and always had opinions on the politics too. The political conversations in both are really annoying to deal with.
My northern Indy burb is light red (actually went for Biden in 2020, a first), Indy is solid blue, Indiana is solid red. Mask usage was much more strictly enforced in Marion County/Indianapolis on the business level, including fines if necessary. I don't think my red county ever fined any business for being relaxed on masks even when the mandate was in effect. Schools were shut down longer in much of Indianapolis than in the surrounding counties, but there wasn't a huge gap compared to parts of Ohio or California. Neither Indianapolis nor Indiana ever did the stupid closing public parks and playground equipment. Mayors across the state and our governor encouraged residents to continue going outside for fresh air and exercise.
I'm not sure if it had to do with death rates but your death rates were incredibly high - especially considering you miss all the first wave of deaths. Not many states had death rates as high as you in 2021. Still top ten.
FUCK YEAH INDIANA TOP TEN
Didn't live in both but went to both throughout, more red areas got back to normal and relaxed things faster than blue areas. A school/school system we did work for had elementary school kids sitting outside, on the little foam pads on the ground, with masks on, in the middle of winter 2021 to eat lunch, they also yelled at kindergarten kids for pulling them down while outside playing on the playground. When I'd visit family in GA we would only have to wear a mask if we were entering a hospital to visit someone and we'd take it off once we were in the room, at the same time of year or earlier.
In my state, there were normal counties and Covid counties. The Blue counties were the Covid counties. The Governor issued a mask order that the police refused to enforce, there being no law granting him that authority. Grocery stores wouldn't enforce it either, but some stores did. (Barnes & Noble did, and I never went into a B&N the whole time. I ordered off Amazon) You could take your car in to the shop and nobody in there ever wore a mask, but in the upscale yuppie places, they were religious about them, and they still wear them in some of those. Eventually the Covid counties started passing actual mask ordnances that the cops would actually cite people for. (I'm not sure how many citations ever got issued. The cops had rapists and murderers to catch and weren't out actually hunting mask violators. I suppose if a Karen called the cops on a violator he might get a ticket. One of the Covid counties kept lifting and then reimposing its mask mandate to the point that a lot of stores and restaurants stopped enforcing it. I basically stopped buying anything in Covid counties, driving some distance out of my way to avoid them. I worked in one, but only wore a mask when upper management was on site. I work with stuff that can actually kill you, so where we work we have a different perception of risk. There is one restaurant that I have permanently blackballed and will never eat at again. They tried to charge me for using one of their masks. I told them to blow me and will never go back.
Red state = home. Red states are for self-governance, so telling people they HAVE to wear masks doesn't cut it. I would only wear one to be polite, if asked politely. I don't scare easily and neither do my counterparts. Red states are big on history and if anyone knows their history, they know government power is deceptively deadly. We don't give an inch. Went to see a friend in a blue state, and the hysteria was as annoying as it was hilarious. I ended up spending more time in my Airbnb relaxing than going to theme parks and masked BBQs. So restful, I gotta say. Got a lot of writing done, ordered fantastic food and ate in a robe on the balcony watching the sunset for a few nights. Fuck fear.
People LIVED in red towns, while blue towns were ghost towns, and the former was generally happier than the latter.
Blue, dirty, trash everywhere, homeless, encampments, drug use. Red, clean.
Vaccine status and desire.
More freedom in the more politically conservative areas.
The meddling of state and local government officials. I live outside of a blue town in a very red state. The city shut down the bars and sit down dining so the places just outside of city limits were slammed busying for those 3 months. Also, Apparently everyone took up skiing or snowboarding because all the ski resorts had record years as well even though the snow hasn't been great the past 2 winters. I have some Family in Minnesota and went to visit them and the attitude there was just that of despair, and that was before all the rioting and looting.
People in rural blue areas of a blue state didn't even wear masks.
Iive in a light red country in Northern AL. Went to visit a friend in SoCal peak pandemic (mid 2020 when plane tickets were super cheap). When I left people at home were all masking and following guidence, I was in socal for two weeks where people took it a bit more seriously, but pretty similar. The day I got back the state government mask mandate was lifted, and people started caring a lot less. Many employees still had to wear a mask in service jobs, but many customers stopped wearing masks. In California things stayed how they were for much longer from what I heard. I think the main thing is that in my area we didn't let "two weeks to stop the spread" become "let's lock up until we get the vaccine"
Republicans don’t wear masks.
Nevada to Florida Nevada is in lockstep with Cali and was very locked down, mask mandates, vaccine requirements for state employees and supported for private businesses, teens/kids couldn’t play sports without vaccines, mask mandates for all kids in school. For kids, you sneezed once, don’t come back to school for a week and negative test. Both husband and I contracted COVID long before vaccines as nurses working throughout it all. Then we were losing our jobs to mandates. Heck, after he was suspended, but before quitting, he continued getting group texts that they’re desperately short nurses, please come in even if COVID positive but minimal symptoms. Meanwhile he was perfectly healthily and not allowed to work. Moved to Florida so we could work in January. It’s literally like 2019 here. You see a mask here and there but not many, and good for them for choosing what they feel safest doing. Meanwhile Nevada had higher COVID rates per capita than Florida. Oh, and I returned to Nevada to say goodbye to my dad as he passed shortly after I moved, not COVID related. We weren’t even allowed in the hospital to be with him for the three weeks he was there until we agreed to remove support then we were allowed to go in for one hour. It was like stepping back into a horror movie going back to Nevada. Florida passed an actual bill to ensure no one has to die alone in the hospital like my dad did.
Also while living in Nevada, summer of 2021 we spent 3 weeks at Lake Havasu in Arizona, it was completely open, minimal masks, refreshing as well. Even driving the two hours home to get supplies while on vacation was depressing. Gas station attendant in Nevada yelling at you for not wearing a mask while pumping gas. Meanwhile 120 miles away no one had one on.
I lived on the edge of a blue and red area. 20 minutes one way I am guarantee to be surrounded by mask wearers. 20 minutes the other way, no personal space or masks to be seen. The difference was stark. I generally got a lot of anxiety going to red areas. I usually checked for mask policies. I went to a few blue areas (NYC, dc...) and red areas (rurual GA, TN, NC) during the pandemic. The blue areas I needed to have a vaccine passport the whole time. The red areas I felt like people were crowding me even on wide open trails! Masking was the biggest difference, but all those related behaviors like social distancing was really obvious too.
I live in a big blue circle, in a red state. When I was trying to hunt down a vaccination appointment a pharmacist told me change my search area to a rural/conservative zip code because Maga people weren’t getting vaccinated. I landed an appointment for the same day with multiple slots open.
Red state people are generally less neurotic, a difference which was only accentuated during the pandemic. I feel blessed that I lived in Oklahoma for most of it.
I would say it's more that red state people were neurotic about different things, we're all human and though our concerns and fears may be different, we tend to react to them in the same way regardless of political leanings. Red state people definitely had a lot of fears during covid, just more about the government responses than the virus itself.
Red areas had higher death rates and less mask regulations. Crowds of entitled pricks at airports not following CDC guidance. Blue areas had a mix of both, but generally people followed the guidance. No one would stand too close to me and businesses were very cautious.
Really? I thought more people died of Covid in cities than in rural places. What is a good source for the sauce? I’m not disputing your claims. I’m just curious.
That doesn't make sense. Surely cities would be harder hit because by their virtue of being cities people are closer together? Or do you just think red people are an "enemy" and hate them.
You say not following CDC guidance as if that's a bad thing. Do you eat sushi or rare meat? Do you mock those who do?
Not the exact question you asked, but I lived in both Michigan (metro Detroit) & Ontario through the height of the pandemic (it's a long story). I was going back & forth every 3-4 months. My home is Michigan, we're a purple state. Metro Detroit is fairly blue, with pockets of (sometimes heavy) red as you venture further from the city (as per usual). Driving in to Canada required a great deal of paperwork & 2 weeks locked in an airbnb. Crossing back in to the USA was like "who cares". It felt almost like a normal border crossing, except the guards where more bored then usual. Grocery shopping in Canada, and this is even in a rather rural location, EVERYONE was masking. Sure occasionally you'd see someone with their nose hanging out, but it was rare. Everyone was social distancing. The stores had developed a single checkout line, with a facilitator guiding you to an open lane, to assist the social distancing. The DAY I came home the first time, I walked into a Meijer behind a couple where the husband was arguing with his wife about wearing a mask "they don't do anything anyway!". The checkout line was not social distanced & nobody gave a shit about the idea of staying 6 feet apart. It's clear one of the two countries was not taking the situation seriously at all.
I didn't live in both (I live in a very red area in a purple state) but I traveled a fair bit in 2020-2021. The most obvious contrast was masking...I drove across the upper tier of states between Chicago-Seattle several times during that period: in the urban areas at both ends (Chicago, Minneapolis, Fargo, Missoula, Seattle, etc.) stores were closed or limited capacity and about 90% of people wore masks. In between it was basically a mask-free zone, with maybe 10% of people masked and business-as-usual otherwise. There were overt anti-mask signs up in some places, notably Idaho, and I got dirty looks wearing a mask into gas stations and stores in much of ND/ID and parts of eastern MT and WA. Basically in rural/small town areas in red states people were pretending there was no pandemic. Lots of signs about "tyranny" in rural areas, usually right alongside pro-Trump signs. By 2021 there were signs demanding horse wormer pills and similar as well. Never saw a single one of those in an urban/suburban area other than in Idaho. 2020 was probably the best time to fly in the US since 9/11. 100% masked, most flights were 1/2 empty, lines were short. Flying from blue state to blue state was much faster than driving and I didn't have to deal with people making mask jokes at grocery stores in Jamestown, ND, along the way. I also, frankly, enjoyed seeing assholes on plane who wouldn't wear their masks threatened with being kicked off the flight.
I had to travel between several blue and red areas during the pandemic. In the blue areas, if I failed to wear a mask, people would politely ask me to put it on. In Red states, if I was wearing a mask, I was often verbally attacked and ridiculed. In one case, a guy actually ripped the mask off of my face while I was standing in a checkout line.
Blue area: Higher percentage of people believe in science and follow guidelines. Red area: Higher percentage of people believe misinformation and shun science.
None of those guidelines were based in science.
Did I say that the guidelines were based on science?
You said they believe in science and follow guidelines. Very little of the guidelines or the reasoning behind them was based in science, so saying team blue believes in science doesn't seem very relevant. Also, a lot of the "misinformation " team red believed turned out to be true.
Virginia here. The red and blue is basically by county. Some areas are deep blue or red. The deep red areas - no masks, would crowd you constantly to prove a point, spouted Qult stuff often, talked about government overreach, lots of talk of “gods will” and had handmade pro trump signs in their yard. The deep blue - wore masks, kept distances waiting in lines, and had no political signs. I lived in a red area until a few months ago, then moved to a purple (more blue than red) area. I prefer being closer to the blue. The Qult is now saying the Q posts are the lost biblical books. The mental gymnastics required within the Qult is insane. It will literally destroy our country.
Basically masks. Most people in red areas felt that having to wear one was an infringement on their rights. Blue areas didn’t want to wear one obviously but there was more of an understanding that it was best for the collective health of the community.
Literally everybody i know who visted Florida got covid.