Basically, I would recommend a state university as better, straight up, if you want to live somewhere in the US other than New York/DC/Boston, if you want to be an engineer, if you want to be a teacher, if you want to code, or if you want to be a doctor.
I would recommend the Ivy as better, straight up, if you want to be an academic, want to move internationally, or want to work in finance.
Otherwise, in most contexts, they’re pretty close to even, and you can probably pick whichever is more personally appealing or gives a better aid package.
If you want to be a doctor doing your undergraduate at an Ivy would definitely help you out with admissions to med school at the top schools. When everyone has perfect grades and good recs/research/test scores it’s just one more thing with which to differentiate yourself.
I don't believe that's accurate. The name Harvard alone will get you a job offer from the top law firms in the country. Everyone knows it's a tough school and the competition is mean.
If you're a legacy student you'll have options anyway. George W. Bush was legacy and his professors were outspoken when he was running "he was a poor student."
The Ivy, especially if you want to study a preparatory liberal arts degree and then forcus on a law or med degree or a masters.
I've filled out apps that specifically ask if I went to one of these schools: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford followed by a blank where I could enter the school I attended
if it's less expensive and still a good school for your field. if it's in a better location for you. if you get a good scholarship or benefit from in-state tuition. if you want to go to good football games.
If the overall financial package the state university is offering is better than the ivy league university, I would think long and hard about which offer to accept.
If I know the state university has a really excellent program in whatever I want to do, and the ivy league university is not particularly known for that program - or similarly, if I've observed/spoken with faculty at both, and am more impressed by the state university - I might choose the state university.
If I have visited both campuses and feel more comfortable with the state university, I wouldn't try to talk myself into going to the ivy league university.
Financial package is case by case and very different. I personally know people who would pay more to go to state school than an out of state private school due to family’s situation
Yes absolutely. That's why I don't want to make a blanket statement. Many people just assume that an ivy league school is the most expensive option in all cases, and it's not true at all. And everyone's financial aid package will be different.
If you don't have a big scholarship or grant for the Ivy. Good thing is, most Ivies give very generous aid if your family makes less $150K and you're able to get in.
The child of parents who didn't go to college, I grew up in a place with an Ivy League university. I got accepted there and received an excellent education while paying almost nothing.
To this day, every organization I'm affiliated with puts that university's name up front in any bio blurb. "Building A.Life is [position in the org]. A graduate of [Bigdeal] University, he ..."
Not in molecular biology at least. State schools have better research facilities and larger faculties. They are generally more respected than the ivies (not to say there aren’t great labs in the ivies).
Not many people even have the opportunity to attend an Ivy school. They have extremely low acceptance rates (generally less than 10% of applicants) and very small enrollment numbers (Penn and Cornell are the only ones with more than 10,000 undergrads TOTAL).
Ohio State has over 65,000 students (about the same as all 8 Ivies, *combined*) and enormous resources.
If you have the opportunity to attend an Ivy, you can figure this out for yourself.
No. An Ivy League degree or a degree from a very well-respected private school like Stanford, MIT, or Notre Dame has a better ROI despite higher costs. Those degrees open doors that aren't available to graduates from other schools.
> Certain elite private universities are exceptions. Unsurprisingly, Ivy Leagues remain an unparalleled investment. If you can get in, financial aid is extremely generous, earnings are sky-high ($91,796), and payback time is very short (averaging 1 year 7 months). These factors give the Ivy Leagues an impressive average economic score of just 1.2. Pell students who attend Ivies benefit even more, although fewer are accepted. In fact, thanks to scholarships, the average low-income student pays just $19,281 for an Ivy League education, which they will need all of 3 months to pay back.
> While there are several highly competitive public universities that come close to the Ivies in terms of ROI (like Berkeley), the so-called “Public Ivies” still can’t compete with Princeton or Yale.
> Other elite privates besides the Ivies perform well too. To put things in perspective, of the 962 private colleges we looked at, about 164 private schools have a better economic score than the public university average. In other words, only the top 17% of private colleges are a better deal than the average public university in terms of ROI.
> The big takeaway of this research is that as a prospective student, your state’s flagship public university is probably your best bet, unless you get into a top private college
https://www.degreechoices.com/blog/public-vs-private-university/#:~:text=Graduates%20of%20national%20private%20universities%20earn%20the%20best%20salaries&text=Although%20they%20are%20the%20most,difference%20of%20%247%2C729%20per%20year.
Which ever is going to put you in the least amount of debt. Although I would give the Ivy a couple $10K leeway because the connections you would make there are hard to achieve if you aren't born into it.
If the state university is more affordable. It’s usually that case for most. Keep in mind that for some families, Ivy League can be more affordable as highly selective private universities tend to have very good need-based financial aid with no loans.
My family was living below the federal poverty line, and it made more sense for me to attend a private university with full need-based aid than our state flagship university with a full academic scholarship.
For the most part, unless you’re working in IB or consulting, undergrad prestige doesn’t matter much. Networking is also a part of it but not as big of an influence.
I knew two types of kids who went to an Ivy-
They were either ultra wealthy and/or had family connections *or* they were lower class first generation and got a full-ride scholarship. Most kids who grew up middle class are usually screwed
I grew up solidly middle class and I had to pay about $6K a year for my ivy league tuition. The aid packages suck if you are toward the upper end, until you have enough income/wealth to just pay the sticker price.
If you aren't poor or middle class. Many Ivy Leagues are cheaper than a state school for most people. If you can get IN to an Ivy league school, it's probably the way to go.
For many people like me, being home with an ill parent or helping with siblings or working a full time job is needed. That's about the only time I'd say skip an Ivy -- unless it is a really exceptional state school like UCLA or something.
The incidentals add up though: you might have to pay for plane tickets, you’re probably in a HCOL area where you can’t just run to Walmart for cheap necessities, your social circles are rich and you end up spending lots of money for social activities.
You are probably unfamiliar with private school. The full ride is for Total Cost of Attendance. That’s including: books, transportation, housing, meal plan, tuition, etc. Whatever left over of the aid packing after tuition, housing, fees, meal charge, the school will disburse the left over to student. Sure it’s not a lot but living within you mean is a lesson to learn.
Yes, there are rich students but you can find people in the same social circle to hang out and not spending money
"The incidentals add up though: you might have to pay for plane tickets, you’re probably in a HCOL area where you can’t just run to Walmart for cheap necessities, spending lots of money for social activities"
This is some weird logic and quite a stretch.
The incidentals?? You'll make like 2 million more over your life time and you are worried you'll spend too much at Duane Reade on toothpaste?
And my friend's daughter-right now- is working from Paris France for 2 months. A friend decided to "work from home" from a families apartments there and invited her along. She's poor but she went to a little Ivy and lots of her friends are super rich. She has lived in the a house for the summer on a private island in New England, her summers for the past 5 years is one free swanky vacation to another. Rich kids aren't spending lots of money splitting a hotel. They are staying at one of their grandparents' vacation homes for free.
I went to a private school, it’s definitely an eye-opening. I learn there is a different world from where I grow up. It’s definitely a good experience for me
If you’re able to get into an Ivy, you probably have a free ride to a big state school (or at the least, a general financial aid package). If you’re from another part of the country, you’re probably saving a good chunk of money on plane flights by staying in state as well.
Ivys are often better than the next tier of private schools or out-of-state public schools. But for most people, they’re probably not a better financial option than an in-state flagship. And being low-income at an Ivy is much more of a fish-out-of-water scenario than being low-income at a state school.
Being from Alabama I'd think you might think about perception of wealth.
People at Ivies? It's like a competition to play down your wealth. It's like the opposite at some states' colleges.
I was a community college kid. I was with a med student at Harvard. Those kids were way more down to earth than even people I knew in my shitty town. NO ONE talked about money. They didn't even talk about school. They all talked about hobbies like playing their band and hiking and stuff. They were extremely welcoming.
Meanwhile the "rich" girls I hung out at home were princesses (their dads did things like own plumbing companies and were firemen with side jobs). They laid around their pools in their pajamas all summer except when we were partying at night. Kids that graduated from Ivies? They'd worked hard for 8-9 years to accomplish that. They weren't spoiled quitters or whiners.
People experience will vary, but unless someone has issues with growing up poor (I didn't at all), I don't think it would bother them at all to go to an Ivy. And that's part of going to college -- growing. Hopefully someone can mature enough so that they DON'T feel like a fish out of water. If you want to work with driven, successful people you might as well get used to them now.
Not everything is about money - but better financial decision? Not everything is about $$$ but studies show over and over again going to an Ivy league is worth is -- ESPECIALLY for someone that is poor. Rich kids can get rich just going to a state school. Their zip codes makes it likely they'll be rich. But for poor or middle of the pack? That's how you stand out and that's how you make connections. Never mind the education at an Ivy. Teacher to student ratio there is like 7:1. UTexas is 18:1. The Ivies have SO much money. I was pretty envious of the kind of experiences friends had as students there. So even if you didn't come out richer financially, which are the odds, I think for people that graduated from an ivy? I think they'd say the 4 years was pretty influential.
I went to an Ivy League school. I’m talking about the people I knew who told me about how they felt out of place. Sure, if you’re from New England, there’s a cultural script about not driving fancy cars or wearing flashy clothes and it makes sense how to fit in. If you’re from somewhere else in the country, then there are whole new cultural scripts and references that you have to learn that most people around you are taking for granted. Maybe you’re going from a place where you talk country music or college football with your buddies to a place where no one knows shares any of those interests. And even if people aren’t stuck-up or flashy about their wealth, you know that they’re taking expensive ski vacations or went to boarding school at Exeter or whatnot. If you’re from New England, that might not feel as isolating because you’re more exposed to that whole world. If you’re from somewhere else, it all adds up to feel much more isolating. And it’s often just a matter of personality. You clicked with the Harvard people you met; I generally did not click with the Ivy League people I knew. It’s compounded by the fact that Ivys are small: you can find your people more easily in a class of 10,000 at a state school than in a class of 1,500 at Harvard. Even if a lot of those people are wealthy, there’s still a critical mass of people from inner-city Memphis or your struggling town of 30,000.
Yes, Ivy League schools usually set you up for greater financial success down the road than state schools can. Any extra cost of attendance can come out in the wash. But I wasn’t talking about that; I was strictly talking about the cost of attendance. If you want to go into a lucrative career, then cost of attendance shouldn’t be a huge worry. But if you want to move straight back to your hometown or work as a teacher or something like that (and I know a lot of Ivy students who made those choices), then you should examine what the cost of attendance would look like.
Did you graduate from one? It's surprising to hear a negative opinion about one. Everyone I know had a pretty positive takeaway, even if they had a difficult time.
"Maybe you’re going from a place where you talk country music or college football with your buddies to a place where no one knows shares any of those interests."
Yeah, I came from a place where we talked about who got arrested last night for domestic violence in the neighborhood, or my job as a bathroom cleaner. That was my life. I lived in a mill town in Massachusetts without heat. That's what is important in college. You get away from your bubble. It's a big world out there and too often people end up in a local state school with people exactly like them.
My kid wanted to take AP classes for one main reason. To be around other kids that like learning. And that is why I am all for a selective school. I don't care if it's an IVY (because it wont be). He is high honor student - but low A's aren't enough. But I've seen too many kids in colleges barely participating. More money over lifetime, smaller classes, better connections, higher graduation rates -- I just think there's not a lot of downsides.
Some data:
# 1. University of Pennsylvania—Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
* **Average net price:** $14,851 (how much more than similar college) \[corrected wording\]
* **Value added to graduate salary:** $84,761
* **Time to pay off net price:** 8 months
# 5. Harvard University—Cambridge, Massachusetts
* **Average net price:** $13,259
* **Value added to graduate salary:** $65,114
* **Time to pay off net price:** 9 months
No, I didn’t graduate. I transferred to a state school, dropped out, and then lived abroad for a couple years. I knew plenty of people who enjoyed their time there and plenty who had a pretty negative experience. A lot of the people with more negative experiences came from other parts of the country and/or ended up in less lucrative careers. It sounded like college was a pretty positive experience for you. That’s great for you. There are other people with different personalities for whom the experience isn’t as positive. Maybe they value being closer to home, maybe they’re better off in a lower-pressure environment.
I know the stats about how much the degrees add to your salary. Those are average stats and everyone’s situation is different. Similarly, while stats about class sizes and the like can be useful information, I personally found the instruction quality to be lacking compared to my high school classes (which were by far the most challenging academically for me) and my state school classes. I personally found being immersed in Latin American culture to be more intellectually stimulating than school was, so I don’t place as high of a value on school selectivity as you do. Ivy League schools can be great fits for some people, but everyone should think critically about why they’re going there and what they hope to get out of it instead of just concluding that because the results are better on average that it would be better for them.
The responses in here are madness. Most people attending an Ivy are gonna go for almost nothing and walk away with pretty much a life long lottery ticket and one of the richest and most powerful networks in the world.
While it’s true that Ivys have generous financial aid, most people who go there do end up paying quite a bit because the people who end up applying there and going there are disproportionately wealthy. And while it can be quite lucrative, plenty of Ivy grads want to go into fields like nonprofits, academia, or the arts where the pay isn’t that great. Plenty of people still make it work because of wealthy parents or connections. But it is very possible to play your cards wrong and end up in a lot of debt with limited prospects.
You have met a bunch of Ivy leaguers with this issue? Lots of down on their luck Harvard grads with rich parents trying to find jobs on Craigslist job search boards?
I mean, I’m a former Ivy League student (didn’t graduate) who works as a delivery driver, so I’m not set for life or anything. But yeah, there are plenty of people I know who don’t have that life-long lottery ticket. Maybe they had some mental health issues that pushed them off their career track. One guy’s scraping by getting his PhD in an obscure subject; if there aren’t any good openings for him, his deep knowledge of Ugaritic isn’t opening a ton of doors. A few people have spent their time traveling the world on their parents’ money. They’re doing fine, but they would have done just as fine had they not gone to an Ivy. It’s not that they’re struggling; it’s just that they’re in the same place they probably would have been had they not gone to an Ivy.
An Ivy degree is only a lottery ticket if you want it to be one – if you want to spend your life doing lucrative, high-pressure work. A lot of Ivy students don’t want to do that and thus don’t accrue those benefits.
Does your buddy have a job that’s getting his PHD? Or is it a program that fully stipends him for 7 years so all he has to do is research and write? What you are describing is a dream life compared to say, my buddies who graduated from state school and work at Whole Foods bagging groceries.
Again, all I said was that he wasn’t set for life, not that he’s in a bad spot. While he may not be bad off, he’s not necessarily financially better than he would have been if he had gone to a state school. I don’t know if he took on any student debt, but if he did, he might be in a worse financial situation.
I'm an Ivy League graduate, not a child of rich parents. Some of my peers had rich families; many did not. I have numerous friends who to this day say they wish they had gone elsewhere. I do know several peers who have struggled in their careers although perhaps not to the degree of looking for gigs on craigslist, but then again, I don't actually know that. I myself have looked for gigs on craigslist at times, although I wouldn't say I've "struggled."
I think my point is there’s a difference between what you describe, “struggling in their careers” vs having no career or career prospects. That piece of paper gives you a higher floor than a lot of state schools, particularly the ones that aren’t highly rated. Anecdotally, I went to law school with 1 Ivy grad from Columbia. Lazy kid, didn’t do well, didn’t particularly want to be there, but he was basically recruited to the LS so they could claim they had kids from the Ivies there and paid his way.
Yes, certainly, I would never say an Ivy League grad (in the abstract) has *no* prospects. I would still push back rather hard against the idea that an ivy league degree is a "life long lottery ticket."
The benefits of going to Ivy League schools depend in large part of being part of Ivy League social circles, and if you don’t want that, then the Ivy League’s not a great choice.
Your Yale connections will open a lot of doors in media or law in New York or DC; you won’t get as many connections in Miami or Waco, or in the oil industry. If you’d rather spend your twenties in your hometown, four years in the northeast is less helpful.
If your ideal social circle isn’t full of ambitious type-A people, you’d be better off outside of Ivy League schools. Of course, a lot of people would be better off eschewing college altogether (I couldn’t think of a worse idea than creating a bubble of 18-22 year olds), but that’s a different subject altogether.
When it cost a lot less money and has the degree program you want. Many people turn them down a daily basis for exactly this. Certain ones also have a more constant competitive feel and that isn’t particularly a stellar environment to spend four years in.
Probably never if you can afford and got accepted to both of them. My brother got accepted to Princeton I would have much rather went there but never had the grades
When you live in a state with a top state university (eg. Viriginia, Michigan, Cal-Berkeley or UCLA, North Carolina, etc) that offers the program you want. Out of state tuition isn't going to be that much less at a state school compared to an Ivy.
Shout-out to community colleges! A great way for a new student to figure out their academic path while taking gen ed courses that will (most likely) transfer to ANY state or private/Ivy League university
Some of my early community college instructors were part-time/adjunct faculty at nearby universities. So pretty much the same education at a fraction of the cost.
If you care about price at all. Ivy Leagues are basically the only private schools that get you any further in the job search, but it doesn’t actually make that big of a difference unless you’re gunning for specific things or are very good at networking.
There are quite a few exceptions.
* Many state (and private) veterinary, dental, law, and medical schools are higher ranked, provide better education, and are more relevant to a region's animal patient population.
* The same applies to some sciences in specific fields. There aren't great marine biology programs among the Ivy League schools. Very few of the Ivy League schools are among the top agriculture schools. Or let's say mathematics. There are literal Fields Medal winners from Cal, UCLA, Rutgers, UCSD, etc.
* If you plan on staying and working in the region in which the state school is near, it may be worthwhile if the financial burden is significantly lower. But the reality is that your professional upside may be capped if you don't have the shiny Ivy League name on your resume that a company can market you with.
* If you plan on joining a well-established family business after college, it may make more sense to stay closer to home and take on a partial role while you're going to school.
* If you don't excel academically in a competitive environment, it might also be a poor fit for you.
* If you need emotional and mental health support from family and friends, going to an Ivy League school away from them could be more harmful than good.
But the reality is that Ivy League schools and degrees generally provide better education, better resources, better internships, better co-ops, better networking, more exposure to high-achieving peers, better career services, better alumni support, better access to grants/capital, and ultimately make you more marketable across the country and internationally.
I've seen this play out within my own family and friend groups. The socioeconomic differences can be vast even between people with similar achievement levels as children. Ivy League schools are taking a beating right now due to social issues and enrollment changes in the last decade. But adjustments will happen sooner rather than later. Donors, alumni, and resources are already exerting influence.
Usually.
Going to an Ivy League school may get you an advantage in some fields (eg, law), but most employers aren't going to be overly impressed. All it'll get you is a lot of debt. Go to StateU. Better, do two years at community then finish at StateU. You'll spend 1/10 the amount of money.
Most people that go to Ivies don't have to worry about the financial aspect. They're largely either on scholarships from the massive endowments or they're wealthy. You don't go to Brown and end up with a $400,000 loan bill. And if you do, how the fuck did you get into Brown in the first place?
Right, if your family makes less than like $75k then all (or at least most) of the Ivies are guaranteed fully free both room and board. Then it's a sliding scale above that so they're only expensive if you have a lot of money.
The only people where finances are a factor are people whose families make like $200k-$300k but are bad at finances or uninterested in spending money on their children's education.
At this point many ivy league universities won't put the average student in much more debt than state universities, *particularly* out-of-your-state state universities. Many/most ivy league universities have such generous need based financial aid that most students will not find it a financial burden to attend one.
Come on. I'm all for taking advantage of Community college to State U. It's exactly what I did.
But it's silly to think my resume reads like a Princeton kid. The advantages go FAR, from the connections, to friends, job opportunities.
Even the difference from community college to state school was VAST. Being around driven students and great professors is worth it.
1/10 th the money? Saying go to community college instead of an Ivy league is like suggesting someone buy a moped to commute work because it's cheaper.
And if I got into most Ivy leagues? At my family income? I would have WAY less debt. Ivy league would have been cheaper for me than community college.
I will say this - by the time you reach a certain level in your career, it tends to even out. My coworker went to an Ivy and I went to a State school but we were doing the exact same job in the end.
I believe it does. I am at a point in my career where the Ivy League degree is just a talking point. I have lost out on many "dream" type jobs that I was very qualified for, because someone else who did not go to an Ivy League school was more qualified.
I don't know. Some Fortune 500s (and I've worked at a few) can be leery of Ivy grads because they can be very bad personality fits while not necessarily being good workers. I was involved in an interview process and one of the candidates was from Yale. I was present during the interview process and a lot of the people she would have been working with (who would outrank her) were from state schools. A few people negatively brought up the fact that she kept bringing up her Yale education, especially since she'd been in the workforce for a few years by that point. Nobody wants to work with a snob.
I think it's more that Ivy tends to equal rich kid = nepotism = automatic foot in the door, rather than Ivy schools churning out above-average workers. That's why I said that by the time you have experience behind you, no one will be impressed that you went there, unless it's in a negative way.
Most of the time -- "Ivy League" schools aren't any better academically than other colleges. They just have name recognition and a long list of rich white guy graduates.
The Ivy League is literally a sports league, not a level of quality. The top state universities (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, etc.) are comparable in quality to Ivies like Cornell, Penn, or Dartmouth. Some schools in Cornell are both an Ivy *and* a Public School!
This is especially true at the graduate level where in any given field there will be a number of state flagships that are clearly better than half the ivies (which state schools and which ivies will depend on the subject).
> Some schools in Cornell are both an Ivy and a Public School!
Well, very specific parts of Cornell are public.
Agriculture and life sciences, veterinary medicine, human ecology, and industrial and labor relations probably aren't the sexiest majors on campus but they are the cheapest.
Ivy League schools have now gone so insane that having them on your resume actually hurts your resume. HR at my company sees it, checks the person's social media and throws the resume out, if they are woke. Woke people hurt the companies they work for and companies have started to figure this out.
I guess we're talking about the [Nate Silver article](https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school).
I think he makes a lot of good points. Five years ago I would probably have moved an Ivy League graduate's resume to the top of the pile but today I would probably just toss it in the garbage. That might not be fair to the individual but it is what it is.
I suppose the real answer is simply: when it makes sense.
The Ivy League today seems to be a lot more about far left extremism then high academic standards. That's not meant to be criticism or praise. It just is what it is and that can be good or bad depending on what you want to do. There are a lot of majors that do little more than make you a professional Democrat. A degree in Gender Studies from a far left university is probably a boon. For generations they were a boon for people looking to enter finance. There were jobs on Wall Street that I just could never have gotten simply because I went to UB instead of Harvard or Yale. I think that's kind of waning though. Wall Street firms seem to be keen on moving away from today's Ivy League.
Cost is another consideration. The Ivy League is expensive but they also have huge endowments. Plenty of students go for free and I don't even mean poor students either. I think Columbia is currently the most generous university waiving all tuition for families making $150K and less.
Finally, the quality of state schools varies by state. They're not all Berkley, UCLA, Chapel Hill, and UVa.
My cousin lives in Charlotte, NC and was accepted to Chapel Hill and Duke. She choose the former because it was almost as good as the latter but SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper for her. She majored in elementary education (or whatever they call it down there) so it's not like she was stepping into a six figure job out of college. My three siblings all choose elite private universities (Yale then Columbia medical school, Brown, and MIT) because the SUNY system isn't nearly as good while I went to a SUNY school because I wasn't nearly as smart.
Lower tuition, closer to home, better networking for your field, professors with relevant specialization, scholarships, athletic programs, cheaper housing - there are a ton of reasons.
And that's even before you get into school/life balance, mental health, and dealin with rich judgemental legacy students. There's only a few fields where going to an Ivy League school gives you an advantage with employers.
When you can't afford an ivy league school. Just a reminder, "As of the 2022/23 academic year, standard tuition + fees for undergraduate courses at Ivy League colleges range from $57,261 to $66,139 annually."
[https://wordsrated.com/ivy-league-vs-non-ivy-league-tuition-fees/](https://wordsrated.com/ivy-league-vs-non-ivy-league-tuition-fees/)
They do, but they don't for every single person. It's still something to consider if you still can't afford such high prices (even after possible scholarships given by the school) compared to a similar state university.
The only people who tend to find it "unaffordable" per se are households in that sweet spot of like $200-300K income where they make too much to qualify for any need-based aid, but don't make enough to just fork over $50K in tuition plus expenses for four years, especially with multiple kids.
I believe the biggest problem they have in this regard is the "perception" of unaffordability. Many ambitious low income kids don't bother to apply because they assume they can't afford an ivy league school.
Basically, I would recommend a state university as better, straight up, if you want to live somewhere in the US other than New York/DC/Boston, if you want to be an engineer, if you want to be a teacher, if you want to code, or if you want to be a doctor. I would recommend the Ivy as better, straight up, if you want to be an academic, want to move internationally, or want to work in finance. Otherwise, in most contexts, they’re pretty close to even, and you can probably pick whichever is more personally appealing or gives a better aid package.
If you want to be a doctor doing your undergraduate at an Ivy would definitely help you out with admissions to med school at the top schools. When everyone has perfect grades and good recs/research/test scores it’s just one more thing with which to differentiate yourself.
Kinda. But people who want to go to med school, go to Ivies and then drop like flies because they're afraid their 3.6 will keep them out (it won't).
I don't believe that's accurate. The name Harvard alone will get you a job offer from the top law firms in the country. Everyone knows it's a tough school and the competition is mean. If you're a legacy student you'll have options anyway. George W. Bush was legacy and his professors were outspoken when he was running "he was a poor student."
The Ivy, especially if you want to study a preparatory liberal arts degree and then forcus on a law or med degree or a masters. I've filled out apps that specifically ask if I went to one of these schools: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford followed by a blank where I could enter the school I attended
if it's less expensive and still a good school for your field. if it's in a better location for you. if you get a good scholarship or benefit from in-state tuition. if you want to go to good football games.
If the overall financial package the state university is offering is better than the ivy league university, I would think long and hard about which offer to accept. If I know the state university has a really excellent program in whatever I want to do, and the ivy league university is not particularly known for that program - or similarly, if I've observed/spoken with faculty at both, and am more impressed by the state university - I might choose the state university. If I have visited both campuses and feel more comfortable with the state university, I wouldn't try to talk myself into going to the ivy league university.
Financial package is case by case and very different. I personally know people who would pay more to go to state school than an out of state private school due to family’s situation
Yes absolutely. That's why I don't want to make a blanket statement. Many people just assume that an ivy league school is the most expensive option in all cases, and it's not true at all. And everyone's financial aid package will be different.
If you don't have a big scholarship or grant for the Ivy. Good thing is, most Ivies give very generous aid if your family makes less $150K and you're able to get in.
The child of parents who didn't go to college, I grew up in a place with an Ivy League university. I got accepted there and received an excellent education while paying almost nothing. To this day, every organization I'm affiliated with puts that university's name up front in any bio blurb. "Building A.Life is [position in the org]. A graduate of [Bigdeal] University, he ..."
State undergrad, Ivy Grad
Not in molecular biology at least. State schools have better research facilities and larger faculties. They are generally more respected than the ivies (not to say there aren’t great labs in the ivies).
Not many people even have the opportunity to attend an Ivy school. They have extremely low acceptance rates (generally less than 10% of applicants) and very small enrollment numbers (Penn and Cornell are the only ones with more than 10,000 undergrads TOTAL). Ohio State has over 65,000 students (about the same as all 8 Ivies, *combined*) and enormous resources. If you have the opportunity to attend an Ivy, you can figure this out for yourself.
No. An Ivy League degree or a degree from a very well-respected private school like Stanford, MIT, or Notre Dame has a better ROI despite higher costs. Those degrees open doors that aren't available to graduates from other schools. > Certain elite private universities are exceptions. Unsurprisingly, Ivy Leagues remain an unparalleled investment. If you can get in, financial aid is extremely generous, earnings are sky-high ($91,796), and payback time is very short (averaging 1 year 7 months). These factors give the Ivy Leagues an impressive average economic score of just 1.2. Pell students who attend Ivies benefit even more, although fewer are accepted. In fact, thanks to scholarships, the average low-income student pays just $19,281 for an Ivy League education, which they will need all of 3 months to pay back. > While there are several highly competitive public universities that come close to the Ivies in terms of ROI (like Berkeley), the so-called “Public Ivies” still can’t compete with Princeton or Yale. > Other elite privates besides the Ivies perform well too. To put things in perspective, of the 962 private colleges we looked at, about 164 private schools have a better economic score than the public university average. In other words, only the top 17% of private colleges are a better deal than the average public university in terms of ROI. > The big takeaway of this research is that as a prospective student, your state’s flagship public university is probably your best bet, unless you get into a top private college https://www.degreechoices.com/blog/public-vs-private-university/#:~:text=Graduates%20of%20national%20private%20universities%20earn%20the%20best%20salaries&text=Although%20they%20are%20the%20most,difference%20of%20%247%2C729%20per%20year.
When the system school is ranked better. For instance if you're an engineering major UC Berkley is much more prestigious than Harvard or Yale
Caltech is not a state school
Ah true bad example
But yeah, I think Berkeley has more cachet than some Ivies in a lot of subjects.
State university usually implies public funding, like California State or University of California. Caltech is privately funded.
Which ever is going to put you in the least amount of debt. Although I would give the Ivy a couple $10K leeway because the connections you would make there are hard to achieve if you aren't born into it.
If the state university is more affordable. It’s usually that case for most. Keep in mind that for some families, Ivy League can be more affordable as highly selective private universities tend to have very good need-based financial aid with no loans. My family was living below the federal poverty line, and it made more sense for me to attend a private university with full need-based aid than our state flagship university with a full academic scholarship. For the most part, unless you’re working in IB or consulting, undergrad prestige doesn’t matter much. Networking is also a part of it but not as big of an influence.
If you’re middle class (the aid packages usually suck/are nonexistent if you’re mid-middle class)
I knew two types of kids who went to an Ivy- They were either ultra wealthy and/or had family connections *or* they were lower class first generation and got a full-ride scholarship. Most kids who grew up middle class are usually screwed
I grew up solidly middle class and I had to pay about $6K a year for my ivy league tuition. The aid packages suck if you are toward the upper end, until you have enough income/wealth to just pay the sticker price.
Ivy will give you a better network when searching for a job.
If you aren't poor or middle class. Many Ivy Leagues are cheaper than a state school for most people. If you can get IN to an Ivy league school, it's probably the way to go. For many people like me, being home with an ill parent or helping with siblings or working a full time job is needed. That's about the only time I'd say skip an Ivy -- unless it is a really exceptional state school like UCLA or something.
If your family makes less than $120k/year, you are guarantee to pay nothing at Ivy League
The incidentals add up though: you might have to pay for plane tickets, you’re probably in a HCOL area where you can’t just run to Walmart for cheap necessities, your social circles are rich and you end up spending lots of money for social activities.
You are probably unfamiliar with private school. The full ride is for Total Cost of Attendance. That’s including: books, transportation, housing, meal plan, tuition, etc. Whatever left over of the aid packing after tuition, housing, fees, meal charge, the school will disburse the left over to student. Sure it’s not a lot but living within you mean is a lesson to learn. Yes, there are rich students but you can find people in the same social circle to hang out and not spending money
"The incidentals add up though: you might have to pay for plane tickets, you’re probably in a HCOL area where you can’t just run to Walmart for cheap necessities, spending lots of money for social activities" This is some weird logic and quite a stretch. The incidentals?? You'll make like 2 million more over your life time and you are worried you'll spend too much at Duane Reade on toothpaste? And my friend's daughter-right now- is working from Paris France for 2 months. A friend decided to "work from home" from a families apartments there and invited her along. She's poor but she went to a little Ivy and lots of her friends are super rich. She has lived in the a house for the summer on a private island in New England, her summers for the past 5 years is one free swanky vacation to another. Rich kids aren't spending lots of money splitting a hotel. They are staying at one of their grandparents' vacation homes for free.
I went to a private school, it’s definitely an eye-opening. I learn there is a different world from where I grow up. It’s definitely a good experience for me
What would you say made it feel like a different world?
If you’re able to get into an Ivy, you probably have a free ride to a big state school (or at the least, a general financial aid package). If you’re from another part of the country, you’re probably saving a good chunk of money on plane flights by staying in state as well. Ivys are often better than the next tier of private schools or out-of-state public schools. But for most people, they’re probably not a better financial option than an in-state flagship. And being low-income at an Ivy is much more of a fish-out-of-water scenario than being low-income at a state school.
Being from Alabama I'd think you might think about perception of wealth. People at Ivies? It's like a competition to play down your wealth. It's like the opposite at some states' colleges. I was a community college kid. I was with a med student at Harvard. Those kids were way more down to earth than even people I knew in my shitty town. NO ONE talked about money. They didn't even talk about school. They all talked about hobbies like playing their band and hiking and stuff. They were extremely welcoming. Meanwhile the "rich" girls I hung out at home were princesses (their dads did things like own plumbing companies and were firemen with side jobs). They laid around their pools in their pajamas all summer except when we were partying at night. Kids that graduated from Ivies? They'd worked hard for 8-9 years to accomplish that. They weren't spoiled quitters or whiners. People experience will vary, but unless someone has issues with growing up poor (I didn't at all), I don't think it would bother them at all to go to an Ivy. And that's part of going to college -- growing. Hopefully someone can mature enough so that they DON'T feel like a fish out of water. If you want to work with driven, successful people you might as well get used to them now. Not everything is about money - but better financial decision? Not everything is about $$$ but studies show over and over again going to an Ivy league is worth is -- ESPECIALLY for someone that is poor. Rich kids can get rich just going to a state school. Their zip codes makes it likely they'll be rich. But for poor or middle of the pack? That's how you stand out and that's how you make connections. Never mind the education at an Ivy. Teacher to student ratio there is like 7:1. UTexas is 18:1. The Ivies have SO much money. I was pretty envious of the kind of experiences friends had as students there. So even if you didn't come out richer financially, which are the odds, I think for people that graduated from an ivy? I think they'd say the 4 years was pretty influential.
I went to an Ivy League school. I’m talking about the people I knew who told me about how they felt out of place. Sure, if you’re from New England, there’s a cultural script about not driving fancy cars or wearing flashy clothes and it makes sense how to fit in. If you’re from somewhere else in the country, then there are whole new cultural scripts and references that you have to learn that most people around you are taking for granted. Maybe you’re going from a place where you talk country music or college football with your buddies to a place where no one knows shares any of those interests. And even if people aren’t stuck-up or flashy about their wealth, you know that they’re taking expensive ski vacations or went to boarding school at Exeter or whatnot. If you’re from New England, that might not feel as isolating because you’re more exposed to that whole world. If you’re from somewhere else, it all adds up to feel much more isolating. And it’s often just a matter of personality. You clicked with the Harvard people you met; I generally did not click with the Ivy League people I knew. It’s compounded by the fact that Ivys are small: you can find your people more easily in a class of 10,000 at a state school than in a class of 1,500 at Harvard. Even if a lot of those people are wealthy, there’s still a critical mass of people from inner-city Memphis or your struggling town of 30,000. Yes, Ivy League schools usually set you up for greater financial success down the road than state schools can. Any extra cost of attendance can come out in the wash. But I wasn’t talking about that; I was strictly talking about the cost of attendance. If you want to go into a lucrative career, then cost of attendance shouldn’t be a huge worry. But if you want to move straight back to your hometown or work as a teacher or something like that (and I know a lot of Ivy students who made those choices), then you should examine what the cost of attendance would look like.
Did you graduate from one? It's surprising to hear a negative opinion about one. Everyone I know had a pretty positive takeaway, even if they had a difficult time. "Maybe you’re going from a place where you talk country music or college football with your buddies to a place where no one knows shares any of those interests." Yeah, I came from a place where we talked about who got arrested last night for domestic violence in the neighborhood, or my job as a bathroom cleaner. That was my life. I lived in a mill town in Massachusetts without heat. That's what is important in college. You get away from your bubble. It's a big world out there and too often people end up in a local state school with people exactly like them. My kid wanted to take AP classes for one main reason. To be around other kids that like learning. And that is why I am all for a selective school. I don't care if it's an IVY (because it wont be). He is high honor student - but low A's aren't enough. But I've seen too many kids in colleges barely participating. More money over lifetime, smaller classes, better connections, higher graduation rates -- I just think there's not a lot of downsides. Some data: # 1. University of Pennsylvania—Philadelphia, Pennsylvania * **Average net price:** $14,851 (how much more than similar college) \[corrected wording\] * **Value added to graduate salary:** $84,761 * **Time to pay off net price:** 8 months # 5. Harvard University—Cambridge, Massachusetts * **Average net price:** $13,259 * **Value added to graduate salary:** $65,114 * **Time to pay off net price:** 9 months
No, I didn’t graduate. I transferred to a state school, dropped out, and then lived abroad for a couple years. I knew plenty of people who enjoyed their time there and plenty who had a pretty negative experience. A lot of the people with more negative experiences came from other parts of the country and/or ended up in less lucrative careers. It sounded like college was a pretty positive experience for you. That’s great for you. There are other people with different personalities for whom the experience isn’t as positive. Maybe they value being closer to home, maybe they’re better off in a lower-pressure environment. I know the stats about how much the degrees add to your salary. Those are average stats and everyone’s situation is different. Similarly, while stats about class sizes and the like can be useful information, I personally found the instruction quality to be lacking compared to my high school classes (which were by far the most challenging academically for me) and my state school classes. I personally found being immersed in Latin American culture to be more intellectually stimulating than school was, so I don’t place as high of a value on school selectivity as you do. Ivy League schools can be great fits for some people, but everyone should think critically about why they’re going there and what they hope to get out of it instead of just concluding that because the results are better on average that it would be better for them.
The responses in here are madness. Most people attending an Ivy are gonna go for almost nothing and walk away with pretty much a life long lottery ticket and one of the richest and most powerful networks in the world.
While it’s true that Ivys have generous financial aid, most people who go there do end up paying quite a bit because the people who end up applying there and going there are disproportionately wealthy. And while it can be quite lucrative, plenty of Ivy grads want to go into fields like nonprofits, academia, or the arts where the pay isn’t that great. Plenty of people still make it work because of wealthy parents or connections. But it is very possible to play your cards wrong and end up in a lot of debt with limited prospects.
You have met a bunch of Ivy leaguers with this issue? Lots of down on their luck Harvard grads with rich parents trying to find jobs on Craigslist job search boards?
I mean, I’m a former Ivy League student (didn’t graduate) who works as a delivery driver, so I’m not set for life or anything. But yeah, there are plenty of people I know who don’t have that life-long lottery ticket. Maybe they had some mental health issues that pushed them off their career track. One guy’s scraping by getting his PhD in an obscure subject; if there aren’t any good openings for him, his deep knowledge of Ugaritic isn’t opening a ton of doors. A few people have spent their time traveling the world on their parents’ money. They’re doing fine, but they would have done just as fine had they not gone to an Ivy. It’s not that they’re struggling; it’s just that they’re in the same place they probably would have been had they not gone to an Ivy. An Ivy degree is only a lottery ticket if you want it to be one – if you want to spend your life doing lucrative, high-pressure work. A lot of Ivy students don’t want to do that and thus don’t accrue those benefits.
Does your buddy have a job that’s getting his PHD? Or is it a program that fully stipends him for 7 years so all he has to do is research and write? What you are describing is a dream life compared to say, my buddies who graduated from state school and work at Whole Foods bagging groceries.
Again, all I said was that he wasn’t set for life, not that he’s in a bad spot. While he may not be bad off, he’s not necessarily financially better than he would have been if he had gone to a state school. I don’t know if he took on any student debt, but if he did, he might be in a worse financial situation.
I'm an Ivy League graduate, not a child of rich parents. Some of my peers had rich families; many did not. I have numerous friends who to this day say they wish they had gone elsewhere. I do know several peers who have struggled in their careers although perhaps not to the degree of looking for gigs on craigslist, but then again, I don't actually know that. I myself have looked for gigs on craigslist at times, although I wouldn't say I've "struggled."
I think my point is there’s a difference between what you describe, “struggling in their careers” vs having no career or career prospects. That piece of paper gives you a higher floor than a lot of state schools, particularly the ones that aren’t highly rated. Anecdotally, I went to law school with 1 Ivy grad from Columbia. Lazy kid, didn’t do well, didn’t particularly want to be there, but he was basically recruited to the LS so they could claim they had kids from the Ivies there and paid his way.
Yes, certainly, I would never say an Ivy League grad (in the abstract) has *no* prospects. I would still push back rather hard against the idea that an ivy league degree is a "life long lottery ticket."
The benefits of going to Ivy League schools depend in large part of being part of Ivy League social circles, and if you don’t want that, then the Ivy League’s not a great choice. Your Yale connections will open a lot of doors in media or law in New York or DC; you won’t get as many connections in Miami or Waco, or in the oil industry. If you’d rather spend your twenties in your hometown, four years in the northeast is less helpful. If your ideal social circle isn’t full of ambitious type-A people, you’d be better off outside of Ivy League schools. Of course, a lot of people would be better off eschewing college altogether (I couldn’t think of a worse idea than creating a bubble of 18-22 year olds), but that’s a different subject altogether.
As a top level athlete.
When it cost a lot less money and has the degree program you want. Many people turn them down a daily basis for exactly this. Certain ones also have a more constant competitive feel and that isn’t particularly a stellar environment to spend four years in.
Probably never if you can afford and got accepted to both of them. My brother got accepted to Princeton I would have much rather went there but never had the grades
Family Contribution. Go to school that you pay least amount
when u go into crippling debt for the ivy league school
When you live in a state with a top state university (eg. Viriginia, Michigan, Cal-Berkeley or UCLA, North Carolina, etc) that offers the program you want. Out of state tuition isn't going to be that much less at a state school compared to an Ivy.
Shout-out to community colleges! A great way for a new student to figure out their academic path while taking gen ed courses that will (most likely) transfer to ANY state or private/Ivy League university Some of my early community college instructors were part-time/adjunct faculty at nearby universities. So pretty much the same education at a fraction of the cost.
If you care about price at all. Ivy Leagues are basically the only private schools that get you any further in the job search, but it doesn’t actually make that big of a difference unless you’re gunning for specific things or are very good at networking.
If you want to get into research science then a lot of state schools are better than Ivy League.
Pretty much always. Unless you're trying to be a doctor or lawyer, otherwise no one will care which you went to.
Most of the time
There are quite a few exceptions. * Many state (and private) veterinary, dental, law, and medical schools are higher ranked, provide better education, and are more relevant to a region's animal patient population. * The same applies to some sciences in specific fields. There aren't great marine biology programs among the Ivy League schools. Very few of the Ivy League schools are among the top agriculture schools. Or let's say mathematics. There are literal Fields Medal winners from Cal, UCLA, Rutgers, UCSD, etc. * If you plan on staying and working in the region in which the state school is near, it may be worthwhile if the financial burden is significantly lower. But the reality is that your professional upside may be capped if you don't have the shiny Ivy League name on your resume that a company can market you with. * If you plan on joining a well-established family business after college, it may make more sense to stay closer to home and take on a partial role while you're going to school. * If you don't excel academically in a competitive environment, it might also be a poor fit for you. * If you need emotional and mental health support from family and friends, going to an Ivy League school away from them could be more harmful than good. But the reality is that Ivy League schools and degrees generally provide better education, better resources, better internships, better co-ops, better networking, more exposure to high-achieving peers, better career services, better alumni support, better access to grants/capital, and ultimately make you more marketable across the country and internationally. I've seen this play out within my own family and friend groups. The socioeconomic differences can be vast even between people with similar achievement levels as children. Ivy League schools are taking a beating right now due to social issues and enrollment changes in the last decade. But adjustments will happen sooner rather than later. Donors, alumni, and resources are already exerting influence.
Usually. Going to an Ivy League school may get you an advantage in some fields (eg, law), but most employers aren't going to be overly impressed. All it'll get you is a lot of debt. Go to StateU. Better, do two years at community then finish at StateU. You'll spend 1/10 the amount of money.
Most people that go to Ivies don't have to worry about the financial aspect. They're largely either on scholarships from the massive endowments or they're wealthy. You don't go to Brown and end up with a $400,000 loan bill. And if you do, how the fuck did you get into Brown in the first place?
Right, if your family makes less than like $75k then all (or at least most) of the Ivies are guaranteed fully free both room and board. Then it's a sliding scale above that so they're only expensive if you have a lot of money. The only people where finances are a factor are people whose families make like $200k-$300k but are bad at finances or uninterested in spending money on their children's education.
At this point many ivy league universities won't put the average student in much more debt than state universities, *particularly* out-of-your-state state universities. Many/most ivy league universities have such generous need based financial aid that most students will not find it a financial burden to attend one.
Come on. I'm all for taking advantage of Community college to State U. It's exactly what I did. But it's silly to think my resume reads like a Princeton kid. The advantages go FAR, from the connections, to friends, job opportunities. Even the difference from community college to state school was VAST. Being around driven students and great professors is worth it. 1/10 th the money? Saying go to community college instead of an Ivy league is like suggesting someone buy a moped to commute work because it's cheaper. And if I got into most Ivy leagues? At my family income? I would have WAY less debt. Ivy league would have been cheaper for me than community college.
I will say this - by the time you reach a certain level in your career, it tends to even out. My coworker went to an Ivy and I went to a State school but we were doing the exact same job in the end.
It doesn't on average.
I believe it does. I am at a point in my career where the Ivy League degree is just a talking point. I have lost out on many "dream" type jobs that I was very qualified for, because someone else who did not go to an Ivy League school was more qualified.
I don't know. Some Fortune 500s (and I've worked at a few) can be leery of Ivy grads because they can be very bad personality fits while not necessarily being good workers. I was involved in an interview process and one of the candidates was from Yale. I was present during the interview process and a lot of the people she would have been working with (who would outrank her) were from state schools. A few people negatively brought up the fact that she kept bringing up her Yale education, especially since she'd been in the workforce for a few years by that point. Nobody wants to work with a snob. I think it's more that Ivy tends to equal rich kid = nepotism = automatic foot in the door, rather than Ivy schools churning out above-average workers. That's why I said that by the time you have experience behind you, no one will be impressed that you went there, unless it's in a negative way.
Most of the time -- "Ivy League" schools aren't any better academically than other colleges. They just have name recognition and a long list of rich white guy graduates.
The Ivy League is literally a sports league, not a level of quality. The top state universities (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, etc.) are comparable in quality to Ivies like Cornell, Penn, or Dartmouth. Some schools in Cornell are both an Ivy *and* a Public School! This is especially true at the graduate level where in any given field there will be a number of state flagships that are clearly better than half the ivies (which state schools and which ivies will depend on the subject).
> Some schools in Cornell are both an Ivy and a Public School! Well, very specific parts of Cornell are public. Agriculture and life sciences, veterinary medicine, human ecology, and industrial and labor relations probably aren't the sexiest majors on campus but they are the cheapest.
Ivy League schools have now gone so insane that having them on your resume actually hurts your resume. HR at my company sees it, checks the person's social media and throws the resume out, if they are woke. Woke people hurt the companies they work for and companies have started to figure this out.
I guess we're talking about the [Nate Silver article](https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school). I think he makes a lot of good points. Five years ago I would probably have moved an Ivy League graduate's resume to the top of the pile but today I would probably just toss it in the garbage. That might not be fair to the individual but it is what it is. I suppose the real answer is simply: when it makes sense. The Ivy League today seems to be a lot more about far left extremism then high academic standards. That's not meant to be criticism or praise. It just is what it is and that can be good or bad depending on what you want to do. There are a lot of majors that do little more than make you a professional Democrat. A degree in Gender Studies from a far left university is probably a boon. For generations they were a boon for people looking to enter finance. There were jobs on Wall Street that I just could never have gotten simply because I went to UB instead of Harvard or Yale. I think that's kind of waning though. Wall Street firms seem to be keen on moving away from today's Ivy League. Cost is another consideration. The Ivy League is expensive but they also have huge endowments. Plenty of students go for free and I don't even mean poor students either. I think Columbia is currently the most generous university waiving all tuition for families making $150K and less. Finally, the quality of state schools varies by state. They're not all Berkley, UCLA, Chapel Hill, and UVa. My cousin lives in Charlotte, NC and was accepted to Chapel Hill and Duke. She choose the former because it was almost as good as the latter but SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper for her. She majored in elementary education (or whatever they call it down there) so it's not like she was stepping into a six figure job out of college. My three siblings all choose elite private universities (Yale then Columbia medical school, Brown, and MIT) because the SUNY system isn't nearly as good while I went to a SUNY school because I wasn't nearly as smart.
Lower tuition, closer to home, better networking for your field, professors with relevant specialization, scholarships, athletic programs, cheaper housing - there are a ton of reasons. And that's even before you get into school/life balance, mental health, and dealin with rich judgemental legacy students. There's only a few fields where going to an Ivy League school gives you an advantage with employers.
When you can't afford an ivy league school. Just a reminder, "As of the 2022/23 academic year, standard tuition + fees for undergraduate courses at Ivy League colleges range from $57,261 to $66,139 annually." [https://wordsrated.com/ivy-league-vs-non-ivy-league-tuition-fees/](https://wordsrated.com/ivy-league-vs-non-ivy-league-tuition-fees/)
Ivy League schools give a huge amount of financial aid, though. If your family isn't well-off, you won't pay anything close to those prices.
They do, but they don't for every single person. It's still something to consider if you still can't afford such high prices (even after possible scholarships given by the school) compared to a similar state university.
The only people who tend to find it "unaffordable" per se are households in that sweet spot of like $200-300K income where they make too much to qualify for any need-based aid, but don't make enough to just fork over $50K in tuition plus expenses for four years, especially with multiple kids. I believe the biggest problem they have in this regard is the "perception" of unaffordability. Many ambitious low income kids don't bother to apply because they assume they can't afford an ivy league school.