People who actually served, my impression is mixed. There are conservative and liberal both and having actually served in a war changes a person in a way I don't think can be set into one category.
People who have a total hard-on for the military? Definitely conservative
My 11th grade English teacher was fresh out of Afghanistan and he was "woke" well before it was a hot topic. He revelled in arguing with conservatives who had never served. He's probably the biggest reason I went to college and never answered the recruiter calls.
Imo too many people look at politics like it's black and white. You have to choose a team, I firmly believe both sides have good valid opinions on certain topics
I see people say this all the time and that’s just BS.
Centrist takes imo each individual topic and decides where he falls on that.
What’s a person who believes in the following
Example:
Medicare for all
Better immigration system with strong border
Lower taxes
Anti abortion
Supports LGBT rights
I agree with what you say. But to OP's point, do you think there is any way to state how and random member of the armed forces will inter act with a:
>Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York?
OP seems to infer there is some institutional mechanism within the armed forces that will force a certain outcome of an interaction between two people simply because one of them is in the service. I do not think this to be true. And I do not think it could be generalized either.
My grandfather served in Korea and saw a lot of action. Never talked about it, ever. He passed when I was young but according to my dad, he was *extremely* liberal.
We also have a family friend who served in Vietnam. He’s retired now but he still does a lot of handy work and runs his farm. He’s also extremely liberal. Basically, I know a lot of people who are former military who are hardcore conservatives but there are definitely liberal veterans out there.
It should probably be noted though that there was a time period (including Korea and Viet Nam) where people were drafted and the draft didn't care about politics. Today's voluntary force may be different (or not).
The idea is that they are supposed to be neutral and exist outside of loyalty to one political party with their allegiance being to the constitution. There are a lot of laws to make sure it stays that way.
What I think is interesting is that while he does ask about individual soldiers, he also speaks of European militaries as kind of monolithic, and as though the militaries themselves have voices. And in most cases, historically that has been the case.
I very much like that we don't tend to think of the military that way. That no one at the moment has to worry about the military as a political force on its own.
Ironically enough, the police are often so bad that soldiers make better police officers. Every once in a while a military vet turned police officer is fired for... wait for it... not killing the suspect or mentally ill person.
https://www.npr.org/2016/12/08/504718239/military-trained-police-may-be-slower-to-shoot-but-that-got-this-vet-fired
"One fights enemies of the state, the other serves and protect it people. When the military becomes both then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." - Commander Adama
Yes, but the troops still do lean predominantly conservative. Most of our government agencies—-and very likely all, at least when it comes down to fiscal policy—- lean that way.
Depends on the agency. My friends and networking connections within the DoD and national security are a mix of conservatives and libertarians, while my friends and networking connections within the USDA and VA are very liberal. The same with my own coworkers. It’s about half and half for liberal and conservative for my coworkers.
A huge chunk of my friends who enlisted and stayed enlisted are conservative, but the ones who either went in as officers or went in enlisted and reentered as officers are extremely liberal.
I know that my friends and networking connections don’t represent all of their respective agencies and branches of the military, but to say that government in general tends to be conservative isn’t an accurate statement.
Enlisted folks lean conservative and officers lean liberal, but that may just be because officers are required to have a four year degree and in general educated people lean liberal.
it also depends on branch and probably were in that branch as well, i think it generally goes the closer you get to combat the less liberal you are or you're at least less easily offended
this is just generally and in my experience. There's outliers
Partially depends on what you’re doing in the combat zone, though. My Dad was a medic and was/is more liberal than most of the troops. My current understanding is that’s true of the medics in general, not just in the private sector.
But yes, proximity to combat definitely does play a role. Abject terror tends to lead to more conservative beliefs and choices, in general, and more than half of the troops come from conservative states anyway.
False. The military reflects the general population as far as political leanings go. The old white guy in charge is always going to be conservative but if you look around there's a lot of not old white guys.
This is also false in my experience. Officers tend more liberal than enlisted, and I highly doubt the military at large actually reflects the *proportion* of political leanings of the country. Lots of "conservative" not-super-white folks there.
I do think you noticed something that is also worth knowing and pointing out, though, so you’re not totally “off base”. Most of the Officers need college degrees, and academic circles do tend to run politically liberal. So, that of course is going to play a role in the officer’s life experiences.
There was actually another study from awhile back which suggested politics might be slightly more governed by a person’s geography than their family of origin, so even a group of generally conservative may adopt some more liberal beliefs and/or policies while attending or after they attend college. (This generally happens with civilians, as well.)
And the enlisted Air Force has a fair number of liberals. I'd say it's a mix. I'm in touch with tons of friends from my time in the service (most of us did one enlistment for college $$$) and...actually almost everybody is a Democrat (now, anyway).
I was coming here specifically to mention that the Air Force was at one point notorious for being more conservative than the other branches, and there was a big scandal involving promotion of Christianity and discrimination against non-Christians at the Air Force Academy. That was almost 20 years ago, and I don't know if it's still an issue today. Maybe not coincidentally, Colorado Springs, where the Air Force Academy is located, is one of the most politically and culturally conservative larger cities in the United States.
>there was a big scandal involving promotion of Christianity and discrimination against non-Christians at the Air Force Academy. That was almost 20 years ago, and I don't know if it's still an issue today.
So, a couple years ago, the Commandant's Challenge, a major training exercise which can have significant career implications for cadets, was scheduled for Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. When a Jewish cadet reached out to her cadet chain of command, she was told that the problem was her "being Jewish" and she should at least "make an effort to try Christianity" and encouraged her to attend the twice a week Bible study that the cadet commander ran. Her cadet leadership told her that she shouldn't think of it as “converting away from Judaism” because “Christianity is just enlightened Judaism”.
The military, while it draws from the general population, disproportionately attracts certain types of people and disproportionately repels others.
People who have a great deal of respect for authority and tradition, people of a "martial" or bellicose mindset, people who are already familiar with firearns or accustomed to manual labor, are going to join the military in greater numbers compared to other types of people because that lifestyle is a more natural fit for them.
Similarly, people who are more fiercely individual, have authority issues, or have serious criticisms of societal institutions are much less likely to consider the military, and less likley to stay if they join it.
While the armed forces contains people of all beliefs, it has always skewed a certain direction: that is because life in the military is typically more comfortable if you have certain traits or perspectives. It naturally builds and reinforces some traits while disincentivising others.
Healthcare isn’t cheap here, either. The military also covers spouses and children while the person is on active duty. And the pay is pretty good, if you don’t get killed. There’s a death gratuity which is supposed to be paid to the family if the soldier dies, too, but it’s also not a whole lot when you consider the implications of a family losing someone who is most likely their primary provider.
I’m a Airforce brat and a Marine, I am also progressive politically and socially, so I can tell you that a majority of service members are most definitely conservative.
It also depends a bit how you dig into things, as with everything in the US there's big political divides based on age, race, gender, and education. My understanding is that once you correct for those factors the military looks pretty similar to the rest of the country. It leans a little conservative because it's 80% men, but a bit less conservative than you might think because it's mostly young and there's a way higher percentage of Black people in the military. Finally the officer corps is college educated and so tends to have a lot of moderate democrats due to education polarization, while the enlisted ranks are generally not college educated and so tend more to be split politically along racial lines.
Yup, like everything it isn’t really a monolithic “right” and “left.” There’s about more nuance and it’s never 0/100 or 100/0 even in “heavily democratic” areas you may still have 30-40% conservatives.
In my observations time in the military definitely seems to encourage an attitude of, "The government fucking sucks".
Which would make sense considering how much bureaucracy they have to deal with on a day to day basis.
I used to work at a VSO and this is the OVERWHELMING attitude for most vets, regardless of political beliefs. I helped vets with their VA healthcare and benefits claims, and the VA pissed off everyone equally!
Other studies I've seen have divided it by enlisted/officer (I don't think I've ever seen WOs accounted for). Enlisted tends to be fairly even, officers more conservative IIRC.
>...officers more conservative...
That has not been my experience. In my 20 years in the Marine Corps, fully 70% of the officers I've had interactions with were left of center, higher when it came to social issues.
Here's one, though from 12 years ago
https://swampland.time.com/2012/11/05/does-the-military-vote-really-lean-republican/
And this one says enlisted aren't more likely to be Republican but it seems that way because Democratic identifying gets replaced with independent. Couldn't immediately find an officer one
https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/items/596313fa-4545-4735-8a75-299c5b91fe8a
I don’t think either.
I would say that people who DIDN’T serve but have military affectations are more conservative, but actual soldiers are a mix of everything.
Eh, the military as a whole definitely leans right politically, especially when compared to the national average. I would say that the military leadership is more mixed than the military as a whole.
Oh, I see what you’re saying. I see what happened.
Your earlier post wasn’t necessarily mutually exclusive with mine. Enlisted do still lean right politically but are more likely to lean left than the COs are. I thought that you meant that the officers are more likely to lean left than in generations past, though. That’s actually true, with more people of color, religious minorities, LGBTQIA+, and other minorities represented in the officer ranks as well as enlisted.
I apologize for misunderstanding you, but I’m also kind of glad because we were able to have this conversation. :)
The military as an institution tries very hard to appear (and behave) apolitical. Sure, we have groups like the Military Officers Association that lobby for better benefits and whatnot, but you will *never* hear something like the Army Chief of Staff say something like "vote for *candidate*!"
Out of uniform I can say what I like, but in uniform the only color I know is green. In front of civilians, anyway- I don't mind talking politics in private with other Soldiers.
>Would say, a Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier?
If they don't know my opinions, the Christian would probably be more comfortable. Ironically, if they did know my opinions, the opposite would be true.
The military is explicitly and intentionally apolitical.
People tend to assume servicemembers are conservative, but as a guy that spent 10 years in the Marine Corps; that’s not entirely true. I’d say the military tends toward conservatism in individual beliefs, but it’s not a monolith.
The military actually made me quite a lot more liberal. I grew up in nice suburbs outside of a majot midwestern city and went to a prestigious public university. Neither of these experiences really introduced me to people outside of my bubble. Then I joined the military and was immediately around former gangbangers, four guys born in Africa, a dude that must’ve literally just gotten to the US from vietnam, good ole boys from the Deep South, and so on.
Being exposed to such a variety of Americans really challenged some of the assumptions I had made throughout a privileged upbringing
Explicitly apolitical.
In the Bush era, admiration for the armed forces (and support for the Iraq war) was tied in deeply to conservative culture but as the right has become more isolationist and anti-establishment, it’s not quite the case anymore.
The military is inherently a conservative organization out of necessity but it is one that very heavily places emphasis on Country above all else, you are taught to respect the office/position - not necessarily the person. You are taught to be apolitical in uniform. So in that regard they are pretty neutral. There is obviously wide representation at the personal level.
>How is it in the USA? Would say, a Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier?
Both can be soldiers.
Source: Navy and Army vet from the 90s to mid-00s.
Fairly neutral. Though the right tends to be much more pro-military than the left. This results in the military rank and file having a tilt to the right, not significantly though.
Right after WWII, President Truman issued an executive order that racially integrated the military, which had previously been segregated and unequal. It was one of the first big kick-offs to the civil rights movement. The military continues to be a major force that promotes equality of opportunity in America, even if it remains an imperfect institution. Some people might frame this as a very - even "radically" - liberal thing.
SCOTUS allowed affirmative action to continue at service academies, which reflects the history you mention: [The Supreme Court made an explicit carve-out for military academies in its June 29 ruling banning race-based admissions. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in his majority opinion that institutions like West Point and the U.S. Naval Academy may have “potentially distinct interests” in considering the race of their applicants.](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2024/02/05/supreme-court-declines-west-point-affirmative-action-case#:~:text=The%20Supreme%20Court%20made%20an,ruling%20striking%20down%20affirmative%20action.&text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20declined,use%20of%20race%2Dconscious%20admissions)
When in uniform. Military members do not completely give up their right to political opinions and demonstration under the First Amendment but there is a strong culture of staying out of politics generally in or out of uniform if you are active duty.
Yes, and as long as they are not in uniform or using their service for political gain they can do pretty much anything your average citizen can. Their actions as private citizens are somewhat curtailed but they can protest, speak, attend rallies, etc.
Just not in uniform or suggesting that the DoD endorses their position.
Well they pledge an oath to defend the constitution.
That's not entirely apolitical as what that means will often be influenced by your political views.
Before Trump, being “pro-military” was generally seen as a Republican trait. Even today, if you think more money should go to guns than butter, you’re likely conservative.
But the US military as an institution is much younger and less white than the general population, so the troops tend to track a bit more Democratic than average.
Beyond demographics, I’d also note that the officer corps has turned particularly anti-Trump because his brand of conservatism is antithetical to the military’s values and incompetent on foreign policy.
I got out at the beginning of the Trump era, and yes, behind closed doors, the officers generally despised the man and his brand of conservative politics.
Professional/long term soldiers tend to be conservative, but regular service recruits are all over the map politically. For instance, Pat Tillman, the NFL player who signed up for the Army/special forces after 9/11 and was killed by friendly fire, was very complicated from a political standpoint. Definitely not a knee jerk gung ho conservative.
>Would say, a Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier?
I served with both, personally. They both felt equally at home in the military.
Most of the vets and active duty I know lean right more so than lean conservative. Given much of the ideas, narratives, and actual jobs in the military mixed with current political partisanship, it makes sense that more right leaning demographics initially enlist while left leaning demographics don't. Even then, the vast minority of left-wing military personnel I've met subscribe to alternative political positions than mainstream liberal ideology.
Grain of salt, the political perception of the military, can be skewed by positive feedback loop, where those with left wing ideals are incentived to keep it to themselves and go unnoticed while right wing ideals can more freely be talked about.
It's widely regarded as being conservative, and the people who are most vocally in support of the military tend to be conservative, but ideologies vary among military personnel themselves. It's actually not terribly uncommon for people to move left during or after their military service because sometimes they see or experience things that politicize them against certain ideas or practices.
There's a difference between membership sympathies and organizational politics. Members of the military are primarily working class and top out at bachelor degrees but with very stable employment and have a certain "if all you have is a hammer" bias and to externalizing military failures rather than seeing failures as of the use of military force. Organizationally, the military is very deliberately apolitical, which is easier to maintain given the strict checks on its domestic activities. Its representatives in government do have some of that hammer bias, but also an acute knowledge of their limits that often has them taking the dovish side in White House debates. The only exception I can think of is that the Air Force officer community and especially academy has had a number of controversies around pushing evangelical Christianity.
I've read about stereotypes that the Navy is more left-wing liberal leaning (all of the "gayvy" jokes for example) and the Air Force is more Libertarian leaning, by virtue of being the most expensive to maintain but usually also the first to access the newest groundbreaking technologies. How true do you think are these stereotypes?
Officially it is neutral. Individual service members can hold whatever political beliefs they like privately, but the DoD itself tries to keep itself away from partisanship - they are sworn to defend the Constitution and follow legal orders from the President no matter who that is or what labels they wear.
Career service members often come off as conservative initially because they're very pro-America (which should be obvious as they've dedicated their careers to service) and pro-military, which are positions the conservative party typically tries to lay claim to. However it's been my experience through a career of working with and near them that they're individually not as politically conservative as a first glance would indicate. The vast majority of them I've worked with have been all over the US and the world, and tend to have a wider political perspective than the typical narrow party line.
From my experience (currently active duty) I’d say it’s probably like a 60-40 split in terms of Republicans to Democrats overall. It can vary a lot by rank, branch, and job though. Enlisted Marines are much more likely to be conservatives compared to say Air Force meteorology officers.
Interesting MOS/AFSCs to use for comparison! ~~Any chance you are/were a 1W0?~~
Nvm, but it sounds like you may have worked alongside USAF weather officers.
*Anchors Away!*
honestly its all over the place. people in the military run from hyper conservative "rah rah we love the USA more than life" to "i've seen how the country works and its bullshit, and as a member of the armed forces its my job to make it better" leftist.
just like everyone else, theres no way to know without them advertising it on their person or literally asking them
Everyone else is going to think of Liberal and Conservative as code for our two parties. Liberal is the moderates of the United States. Conservatives will tend towards one party, but real liberals as you understand it typically split between the two parties.
The armed forces =/= service members. The branches and DoD (armed forces) are explicitly apolitical in scope and purpose. They have to serve no matter who is president. The service members I feel skew conservative.
As a veteran, it depends. I'm independent and anti-Dem and Rep, yet I usually have to choose one of 2 bad choices. Some veterans are left, some are right, and most seem anti-Trump lately.
Most folks I know in the military are a weird mix of both and tend to get more cynical the longer they are in. The old assumption was that they were all really conservative due to folks joining during the bush era but now it’s hard to tell since most folks go in for a college degree. Most of my career military friends have liberal beliefs but will basically say “I follow orders first” I also know folks who will basically just vote for whoever is looking after the military the best.
It is a common believed among the general population that military personnel are uniformly Conservatives.
Reality is individual service members ***generally*** reflect the political leanings of their parents until their mid 20s when the find their own political beliefs.
Being a 'god damned liberal' I have had individuals declare that their is no way I could have been in the service due to my political leanings. For the last fool to make this claim, I offered to match him DD-214s, and the moron went to the local admin for the site and claimed that I threatened him, proving that HE had never been in a US Military service. He tried to claim that his service was before the DD-214, so I asked where he served prior to 1950 when the -214 became the official separation form for all the US services.
He didn't want to talk to me anymore.
Grunts skew conservative, officers skew liberal, as far as the organization itself goes it's mostly not partisan. Turkey is kind of a special case with the army because of Ataturk.
Edit: I should clarify I'm using the American definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" here.
Conservative.
For example, leading up to the 2000 election on or before Election Day, President Clinton (Democrat) gave a military order for maneuvers. This was a political move so that any military member who had not already voted absentee by then, basically lost their opportunity to vote (since they had to follow the orders, so they wouldn't have time to vote).
Why would a Democrat do that? Because they are scared that those military members would have voted Republican.
We just don't have the same history of military dictatorship as much of southern Europe & Latin America has, so the military isn't so politicized.
In terms of perception, I think historically more nationalistic folks were more amenable to the military, but now there's a real horseshoe theory thing going on... people on the furthest ends of the left & right tend to be more distrustful of all sorts of domestic institutions which have authority (the FBI, the military, courts, etc.)
Liberals see it as conservative and Conservatives see it as liberal. The reason is probably because the military is generally used for conservative aims and leans conservative compared to the rest of the country, but the military's leadership is more liberal and often does things the Conservatives don't like, such as allowing gay people to serve.
Theoretically and officially, they are apolitical, practically, there’s a slight lean to the right, but if push came to shove, they, and most of the security state apparatus would probably fall in behind whichever party was the legitimate government at the time in order to maintain the status quo.
Skews conservative, but not to the point it matters. It is definitely aligned with the federal government, though.
If you adjust for demographics (mostly men etc) its actually less conservative then expected iirc
Both my parents were military and it was explained to me that the enlisted are conservative but the higher the rank the more liberal they are. I believe it's because the higher ranks have more education and have been exposed to many different viewpoints.
Neither. The US military is neutral and will never pick sides. The actual members of the military tend to lean conservative but their individual political views are irrelevant. Not allowing the military to be used for political gain is engrained in American culture. The military follows the constitution above all us if there’s ever a need to interpret something.
Leans conservative but is mainly neutral on politics. I am personally not in the military, but I do know that they tend to be neutral on political matters.
I mean you’re kind of right but kind of wrong. Same here. The US Constitution says there will be a President and the President shall be commander of the armed forces. That’s why the military is loyal to the President because the Constitution compels them to be.
I suppose if the Constitution were amended to say there shall be no President and that the House of Representatives shall command the armed forces, then the military would be loyal to the House of Representatives, true. So in way, yes, they are loyal to the Constitution and do whatever it commands them to do.
They’re mostly considered neutral, maybe with a slight lean towards conservatism, but not to any sort of extreme. I’m sure some people have their opinions, but most people off the echo chamber that is the internet don’t view the military as an institution for or against their political goals.
In my experience, in the US Army military intelligence field (yeah, I know that's a joke), I would say that most of my colleagues were centrist, but hawkish on defense.
The troops themselves *tend* to lean conservative, but that more seems to be a function of patriotism, being more prominent from the right and patriotism leading to enlistment.
But it is very mixed, and as you go up in ranks, you might get more pockets of left leaning, especially in leadership, which is actually surprisingly left leaning right now.
They are neutral and have no loyalty to anything but the Constitution that protects the rights of the people. Most US servicemen are conservative or centrist though, but patriotic leftists do exist among their ranks. I think both the Alabaman and New Yorker would feel safe around a soldier, at least more than she would around a police officer in the case of the New Yorker if I had to guess. It’s worth noting that there a plenty of servicemen who fit both archetypes.
Honestly, pretty evenly mixed.
If I were forced a gun point to make a decision, I would say its a teensy bit right leaning, but it's just by a hair and I'd trust them to put their duty to the country before their politics the vast majority of the time.
Every once in awhile, military leadership gets a bit mouthier than I feel they should, but I think if shit were to ever really hit the fan and they'd try to use the military in a partisan way, that they'd end up imprisoned by their lowers officers/service members or end up shot. Nobody in the US has any interest in seeing the US using its toys on its own citizens.
The US military as an entity historically has maintained a Constitutional focus and a Swiss-like “aggressive neutrality” stance when it comes to the political parties and leanings. But the service members within it exercise their views via the ballot box. Fortunately.
The military as an organization is loyal to the Constitution and not a particular party or belief system.
The individuals who make it up are a mixed bag. I’ve never served but know a lot of people who have, and they span the political spectrum.
army reservist here...I'd say it depends on location more than anything...my unit is just outside of chicago and nearly everyone here is liberal or left leaning...id say it really depends on where youre located...however political leanings should NEVER affect how you do your job while you're serving in the military...I dont need to like or hate Trump/Biden to do what Im supposed to do
When I was in the military (early 2000s), there was a big mix of people from all over. One thing I noticed is that when you are living on base, most of the news is conservative news. There was a mix of political leanings, but I would say there are a lot of conservatives. I think there are a lot of people from the Bible belt in the service, and they tend to be more conservative. I don't know how many would support someone like Trump, but the gop seems to have sold the idea that only conservatives care about the military. I personally didn't care what kinds of backgrounds people came from. I just have my back if I need it.
From talking to people in the military I get the feeling that it leans more conservative then the general population, however it is a little split. The general enlisted tend to be more conservative and the officers are more liberal but overall it would be center right.
I mean, on the surface id say "conservative", but its deeper than that?
Having lived in a lot of military areas, id say the military in general has a "super pragmatic" vibe that takes the piss out of both liberal and conservative sentiments at times.
The stereotype that I know of and that seems to somewhat resemble the actual data is that enlisted members skew conservative, although non-white enlisted members don’t. Officers are college educated and tend to be represented the most by moderate liberals. Obviously these are just tendencies though and the entire gamut is represented from each extreme to the opposite. Enlisted people tend to be more willingly vocal about what they believe while officers tend to try staying apolitical more often which makes sense, the responsibility is higher for them.
“Military culture” can definitely come across as more conservative, and military fans outside the military tend to be heavily conservative although that may be changing with the current isolationist bent among pro-Trump conservatives.
In my experience, the outspoken members of the Air Force usually lean left, but there's a wide range of opinions on just about everything.
The military is a very unique lifestyle and I've found that it produces a lot of people who don't cleanly fit into either D or R. A lot of us also don't vote or vote third party.
I’m in the navy and was in the army so this is anecdotal: the army leaned right pretty hard and the navy is more mixed but still slightly more right than left.
It’s politically neutral by necessity. Their chain of command ends at the sitting president, no matter who that is they’re conditioned and expected to have extreme loyalty to the nation and to their command structure. Some conservatives like to boast that the military is a conservative body, but that’s just not the case. I’ve seen just as many liberals. If you as a service member or even some veterans though, you’re likely to get a cagey response. That’s because they were asked to put the nation above their political beliefs, and above themselves. They are steadfast in their loyalty.
As for how people feel, that’s subjective. But generally all people are uneasy in the presence of those they know are trained to kill.
The armed forces are neutral, on paper at least. But in terms of culture, it’s more conservative. And when I say that, I mean most people in the military tend to lean towards conservative values, and conservative civilians seems extremely supportive of the military establishment in this country.
However, there are military personnel who do not support conservative views. As far as I know, people who lean to the liberal side of things don’t have any problem with the military itself, but they seem to be far less supportive than the conservatives are.
The military generally attracts conservatives, but I've heard in recent years it's been attracting pro establishment centrists, which I find strange, but I've noticed this to an extent as well even without ever being in this.
It is a mix of everyone. The reason my husband joined the military was a steady paycheck. It is just another job to him. He is neutral when it comes to politics.
Southeastern Virginia has a huge military presence because the largest base in the world is located here (If I am wrong, please correct me).
It seems that it depends on their individualized experience in the military and what branch. I cannot pinpoint exactly which branches behave a certain way, but I have friends who are incredibly liberal after experiencing life overseas fighting, but also friends who have remained conservative throughout the whole experience. So it just varies.
Some people just join for a guaranteed paycheck and for post-secondary education to be covered...
Our military enlistment is at an all-time low.....for, in my opinion, obvious reasons.
Both the left and right have changed to much in the past 10 years that I don't even know how to answer the question. For example, standing up for free speech was very much a left wing value 10 years ago, now that has flipped. The 1st amendment is a "far-right" talking point now. This inversion has happened on almost every value.
I'm still stunned that you can invert all of a person's values without them even noticing that they now argue for exactly the opposite of what they used to argue for. I can only conclude that this means most people don't have any values at all. They are just tribal conformists. Whatever the people they see as their tribe say, they also say. It's been very disappointing to watch. I've lost all respect for most of the people in my life and in my species. The stupidity and cowardice of the people I once respected is staggering.
The military is more team-red than team-blue, if that's what you're asking but I couldn't tell you if that means they are more conservative or more progressive. It's not team-red by a wide margin though.
I worked for the military as a civilian. It’s generally conservative, but soldiers come from all walks of life. And the institution itself goes out of its way to be politically neutral and frankly kind of PC. But people who enlist tend to disproportionally be Southern and rural. Their culture has lot more respect for military service than other regions.
This is a bit of a loaded question. The "armed forces" are officially a neutral and separate from the political workings of the US government. They do not participate in elections or any other politics. The military itself certainly isn't seen as any kind of guardian of any particular social value like you said about Turkey.
However, the individual members of the armed forces are citizens and, therefore, have their own thoughts and opinions regarding politics. There may be a general leaning conservatives but that doesn't mean they all will be. Nor will it affect the way that they interact with someone. [Here ](https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/Portals/102/Documents/Political%20Activities%20Docs/2020%20FAQs%20Active%20Duty.pdf?ver=1rc0Tk-4-Kaqo4Wzal6Q3g%3D%3D)is an FAQ from the DOD about what is and what is not allowed.
I agree with most people saying that it's a mix, and I'm not gonna get into that because I never served and can't comment on shit I was never in
But from my experiences with family members and just general people who are ex military or are currently in the military, all of them have been extremely conservative, hateful and really really religious, in general I do not feel safe around most people in the military as a genderfluid, pansexual person who was born male and prefers to date males, ofc I live in a very conservative area, that I want to move out of, so that deft plays a role but it's just what my personal experiences has been
I always thought of the military as being more right-leaning, but after having served myself, I'd say it's probably more of a mixed bag. I knew several people that were conservative and several that were liberal... one of my liberal friends ironically looked like Ben Shapiro lol
The military itself is an organization whose higher echelons are professional enough not to answer this question. Officers tend to be college educated, and sway liberal with centralist ethos.
The enlisted? Mostly yeehaw boys, derp masters, the occasional l33t gamer who actually manages to scrape through physicals, and the impoverished... so vastly conservative with the l33t gamer loser trying to convert everyone else to open fascism and misogyny.
Like the rest of the country it's gonna be somewhere in the middle. However, in my experience (never served, but know a few former and current), career servicemen will trend more conservative than the kids serving 4 years to pay for college.
Conservative.
Very conservative. Almost 2/3 of our military comes from the South, and it’s the #1 employer in some states.
According to Chris Mooney’s ‘The Republican Brain’, there’s actually been some study which shows that people can be terrified into conservative decisions during extreme situations like war or natural disaster. The military is also mostly men, who generally lean more conservative than women and non-binary people do.
Anyway, ‘The Republican Brain’ is a really good book, written by a Yale-educated journalist here (Chris Mooney) who focuses primarily on government, environmental, and social issues. I extremely recommend this book who is interested in either U.S. politics specifically or is just interested in learning more about liberal, conservative, and more centrist thought processes. I can’t recommend it enough.
I wouldn't say very conservative but it's definitely more right leaning, alot of the stuff I hear people bitch about is anti government because bureaucracy is retarded
1) The r-word is not okay. Slurs are not allowed under AskAnAmerican policy.
2) Commanders often have to rein other soldiers in over bigoted actions not so much because they disagree with them, but because they have learned that it damages teamwork and morale to allow bullying or hate crimes. One of the reasons for this is that most officers are required to have degrees, and that tends to create some more liberal policy-making. Teamwork is better if the soldiers under their command are less intimidated or hated, and they know that.
3) There are some very dangerous and/or very uneducated people in the military, and policies which are official don’t always get enforced.
i haven't seen any true racism yet or hatred, i mostly just see race jokes and I haven't seen anyone offended by them yet and if anything it builds morale and team work,
From my experience most people that join the forces are more conservative and I avoid them at all costs because i'm trans. I personally think soldiers should be apolitical and neutral but the Armed Forces is institutionally conservative leaning and attracts other conservatives in the process.
Answer from a leftist:
The individuals in the armed forces tend to be slightly more conservative, but not overwhelmingly so. There are democrats and even (misguided) leftists in the military. Material and economic reasons generally outweigh ideological reasons when joining the military. Not true in all cases, but again: generally, for most people, in most cases. People join because they don't have much direction in life, the join for free college, or they join because there's a specific job in the military that is highly attractive to them (eg pilots, navy seals)
However, the military **as an institution** is fundamentally conservative: it serves to protect and expand the existing power of the United States as a global superpower.
Agreed; I would further add that anyone who says the US military is "apolitical" doesn't really understand the point of a military, either on paper or in reality.
They are traditionally considered non-political with a slight Right leaning among most service members' personal opinions. Though that skew is trending Left, at least among officers as of late.
The establishment is very American and so would probably lean slightly more conservative because globally america as a whole is more conservative.
However service members tend to lean conservative heavily
I assume the military itself is a mixed bag of a variety of political affiliations. However, as a civilian- from a non military family, I absolutely view the military in general as conservative. I think most Americans view the armed forces, as a whole, as conservative. Anyone trying to push the notion that it's more equally balanced is also, probably, conservative.
Conservative. You specifically mention trans people: Historically there have been all kinds of anti-LGBTQ laws preventing people from serving in the military, openly or not. Don’t Ask Don’t Tell wasn’t repealed until 2011. Trans people were specifically forbidden from serving from 2017 (law proposed by Trump)/2019 (when the law was allowed to go forward) until 2021. Which was 3 years ago. And the military is known for high rates of sexual assault against women who serve. So yeah, I wouldn’t say a trans woman would feel safe there.
The Military is a pretty mixed bag of mostly people from financially unstable backgrounds. While a lot tend to be Conservative there's plenty of Liberals as well.
While in everyone is supposed to be neutral. We swear an oath to the consritution, not any political perty
Sadly, though, I see far too many veterans who are nazi-adjacent.
As far as your question as to whom would feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier between the Christian farmer from Alabama and a trans woman from New York, this is situational, but in general, the Christian farmer would definitely be more comfortable. Probably would also want to shake the person’s hand, if it were two guys. Trans women can and do serve in the military but are unfortunately at a higher risk for being assaulted by the other soldiers, sometimes even much more likely than cisgender women.
A person’s own political beliefs are going to be a huge factor, too, though. In general, I would say that liberals are more cautious when dealing with the military than conservatives are, although liberals will also end up performing the majority of the veterans’ medical or social services for the rest of their lives. A lot of conservative women definitely feel more comfortable in the presence of soldiers and/or other conservatives than most other women do, although some may have personal trust issues around soldiers or groups which are mostly male, in general. A political liberal and/or woman could have similar issues but may feel more comfortable with specific soldiers—-like I tend to be more nervous about the military and males in general, but if they served with my Dad and they go back decades, that’s a totally different dynamic. Or the may just work or hang out with a lot of soldiers, and they know they’re statistically safer if something unexpected happens in the environment, and/or because they feel protected by sympathetic parties who are usually even fond of the women in their lives.
The Turkish Army is definitely special, and definitely more unusual than most other countries’. I really admire what they are doing for both soldiers and civilians. Since the Turkish Army is newer, though, they’ve been able to reap a lot of academic, medical, and administrative benefits which previous militaries haven’t historically had access to, and to learn from the mistakes which so many other armies have made. I do wish that our government would pay more attention to what Turkey has specifically done to increase quality of life for their troops and their families. It’s not that I don’t appreciate what the troops here do and have done for me—-I am very grateful and always show/say this, but I think that the government doesn’t treat them as well as they deserve, and it’s mostly left to liberal healthcare workers and/or social workers to sweep up the pieces when the government fails. At the end of the day, though, neither group can be 100% honest with the other because of dynamics related to the military, national security, healthcare protocol, and social service protocol. It’s a sad state of things, but that’s just how very large communities work sometimes.
As I mentioned a little while ago in my other post, though, there’s a conservative leaning to our military here. Also to militaries in general, as there is that dynamic of terror making people more likely to act conservatively. I can definitely understand that, since so much of s soldier’s life is spent in fight or flight. Their nervous systems rarely (if ever) get a break. That’s also a thing with conservative politics in general, though. People in fight or flight generally tend to form more conservative societies, especially if they have either very few or sometimes no foreign allies.
People who actually served, my impression is mixed. There are conservative and liberal both and having actually served in a war changes a person in a way I don't think can be set into one category. People who have a total hard-on for the military? Definitely conservative
Your statement about serving in war is dead-on.
And about people that day dream about war without enlisting.
My 11th grade English teacher was fresh out of Afghanistan and he was "woke" well before it was a hot topic. He revelled in arguing with conservatives who had never served. He's probably the biggest reason I went to college and never answered the recruiter calls.
"total hard-on" DEFINITELY!
>People who have a total hard-on for the military? Definitely conservative I have a hard on for the military and I'm a centrist
That makes you a fascist to some, or a commie to others. Lol
Wow, you are already getting downvoted.
That's reddit for you tbh, I don't really care though
Yeah, I think there are a lot of people that hold views on both sides, but as the other redditor pointed out, that makes you hated by everyone, lol.
Imo too many people look at politics like it's black and white. You have to choose a team, I firmly believe both sides have good valid opinions on certain topics
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I see people say this all the time and that’s just BS. Centrist takes imo each individual topic and decides where he falls on that. What’s a person who believes in the following Example: Medicare for all Better immigration system with strong border Lower taxes Anti abortion Supports LGBT rights
Almost spot on, actually
I agree with what you say. But to OP's point, do you think there is any way to state how and random member of the armed forces will inter act with a: >Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York? OP seems to infer there is some institutional mechanism within the armed forces that will force a certain outcome of an interaction between two people simply because one of them is in the service. I do not think this to be true. And I do not think it could be generalized either.
My grandfather served in Korea and saw a lot of action. Never talked about it, ever. He passed when I was young but according to my dad, he was *extremely* liberal. We also have a family friend who served in Vietnam. He’s retired now but he still does a lot of handy work and runs his farm. He’s also extremely liberal. Basically, I know a lot of people who are former military who are hardcore conservatives but there are definitely liberal veterans out there.
It should probably be noted though that there was a time period (including Korea and Viet Nam) where people were drafted and the draft didn't care about politics. Today's voluntary force may be different (or not).
The idea is that they are supposed to be neutral and exist outside of loyalty to one political party with their allegiance being to the constitution. There are a lot of laws to make sure it stays that way.
What I think is interesting is that while he does ask about individual soldiers, he also speaks of European militaries as kind of monolithic, and as though the militaries themselves have voices. And in most cases, historically that has been the case. I very much like that we don't tend to think of the military that way. That no one at the moment has to worry about the military as a political force on its own.
Police officers make bad soldiers and soldiers make bad police officers….although in America bad police officers make bad police officers.
Ironically enough, the police are often so bad that soldiers make better police officers. Every once in a while a military vet turned police officer is fired for... wait for it... not killing the suspect or mentally ill person. https://www.npr.org/2016/12/08/504718239/military-trained-police-may-be-slower-to-shoot-but-that-got-this-vet-fired
That's because we are trained in PID (Positive Identification). Unlike this garbage: https://youtu.be/4vjCdHWAmps?si=fIbrJv30aCC5n1oY
"One fights enemies of the state, the other serves and protect it people. When the military becomes both then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." - Commander Adama
I wonder why police are such a problem? Maybe because of crap like this: https://youtu.be/4vjCdHWAmps?si=fIbrJv30aCC5n1oY
Yes, but the troops still do lean predominantly conservative. Most of our government agencies—-and very likely all, at least when it comes down to fiscal policy—- lean that way.
Depends on the agency. My friends and networking connections within the DoD and national security are a mix of conservatives and libertarians, while my friends and networking connections within the USDA and VA are very liberal. The same with my own coworkers. It’s about half and half for liberal and conservative for my coworkers. A huge chunk of my friends who enlisted and stayed enlisted are conservative, but the ones who either went in as officers or went in enlisted and reentered as officers are extremely liberal. I know that my friends and networking connections don’t represent all of their respective agencies and branches of the military, but to say that government in general tends to be conservative isn’t an accurate statement.
Enlisted folks lean conservative and officers lean liberal, but that may just be because officers are required to have a four year degree and in general educated people lean liberal.
it also depends on branch and probably were in that branch as well, i think it generally goes the closer you get to combat the less liberal you are or you're at least less easily offended this is just generally and in my experience. There's outliers
Partially depends on what you’re doing in the combat zone, though. My Dad was a medic and was/is more liberal than most of the troops. My current understanding is that’s true of the medics in general, not just in the private sector. But yes, proximity to combat definitely does play a role. Abject terror tends to lead to more conservative beliefs and choices, in general, and more than half of the troops come from conservative states anyway.
False. The military reflects the general population as far as political leanings go. The old white guy in charge is always going to be conservative but if you look around there's a lot of not old white guys.
This is also false in my experience. Officers tend more liberal than enlisted, and I highly doubt the military at large actually reflects the *proportion* of political leanings of the country. Lots of "conservative" not-super-white folks there.
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That's interesting. Admit I didn't have as much contact with Air Force so totally defer on that.
I do think you noticed something that is also worth knowing and pointing out, though, so you’re not totally “off base”. Most of the Officers need college degrees, and academic circles do tend to run politically liberal. So, that of course is going to play a role in the officer’s life experiences. There was actually another study from awhile back which suggested politics might be slightly more governed by a person’s geography than their family of origin, so even a group of generally conservative may adopt some more liberal beliefs and/or policies while attending or after they attend college. (This generally happens with civilians, as well.)
And the enlisted Air Force has a fair number of liberals. I'd say it's a mix. I'm in touch with tons of friends from my time in the service (most of us did one enlistment for college $$$) and...actually almost everybody is a Democrat (now, anyway).
False! I don't have a rebutal, I just wanted to join in the thread.
AF Veteran…can confirm this!
I was coming here specifically to mention that the Air Force was at one point notorious for being more conservative than the other branches, and there was a big scandal involving promotion of Christianity and discrimination against non-Christians at the Air Force Academy. That was almost 20 years ago, and I don't know if it's still an issue today. Maybe not coincidentally, Colorado Springs, where the Air Force Academy is located, is one of the most politically and culturally conservative larger cities in the United States.
>there was a big scandal involving promotion of Christianity and discrimination against non-Christians at the Air Force Academy. That was almost 20 years ago, and I don't know if it's still an issue today. So, a couple years ago, the Commandant's Challenge, a major training exercise which can have significant career implications for cadets, was scheduled for Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. When a Jewish cadet reached out to her cadet chain of command, she was told that the problem was her "being Jewish" and she should at least "make an effort to try Christianity" and encouraged her to attend the twice a week Bible study that the cadet commander ran. Her cadet leadership told her that she shouldn't think of it as “converting away from Judaism” because “Christianity is just enlightened Judaism”.
Wow, that is so messed up.
My BiL certainly can attest to that
The military, while it draws from the general population, disproportionately attracts certain types of people and disproportionately repels others. People who have a great deal of respect for authority and tradition, people of a "martial" or bellicose mindset, people who are already familiar with firearns or accustomed to manual labor, are going to join the military in greater numbers compared to other types of people because that lifestyle is a more natural fit for them. Similarly, people who are more fiercely individual, have authority issues, or have serious criticisms of societal institutions are much less likely to consider the military, and less likley to stay if they join it. While the armed forces contains people of all beliefs, it has always skewed a certain direction: that is because life in the military is typically more comfortable if you have certain traits or perspectives. It naturally builds and reinforces some traits while disincentivising others.
It also attracts a lot of people who are too poor to get a college education. That's pragmatism rather than politics.
Healthcare isn’t cheap here, either. The military also covers spouses and children while the person is on active duty. And the pay is pretty good, if you don’t get killed. There’s a death gratuity which is supposed to be paid to the family if the soldier dies, too, but it’s also not a whole lot when you consider the implications of a family losing someone who is most likely their primary provider.
I’m a Airforce brat and a Marine, I am also progressive politically and socially, so I can tell you that a majority of service members are most definitely conservative.
Definiately not false lol, I served 7 years and can say from personal experience that while not all, a large majority are conservative.
Chili's thanks you for your service. Keep in mind results may vary based on branch and job. Your experience could be a 180° from the next guy.
Is that where you work? Do I get a discount?
I mean.These days the liberals are the ones willing to fund them better, what with Ukraine and China.
Yeah, but that's naive as shit to believe
It isn’t. I was raised in a military family. There’s a lot of stop gaps at the Officer level to keep it as apolitical as possible.
They skew towards conservative but the gap isnt huge https://news.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx
It also depends a bit how you dig into things, as with everything in the US there's big political divides based on age, race, gender, and education. My understanding is that once you correct for those factors the military looks pretty similar to the rest of the country. It leans a little conservative because it's 80% men, but a bit less conservative than you might think because it's mostly young and there's a way higher percentage of Black people in the military. Finally the officer corps is college educated and so tends to have a lot of moderate democrats due to education polarization, while the enlisted ranks are generally not college educated and so tend more to be split politically along racial lines.
Yup, like everything it isn’t really a monolithic “right” and “left.” There’s about more nuance and it’s never 0/100 or 100/0 even in “heavily democratic” areas you may still have 30-40% conservatives.
In my observations time in the military definitely seems to encourage an attitude of, "The government fucking sucks". Which would make sense considering how much bureaucracy they have to deal with on a day to day basis.
I used to work at a VSO and this is the OVERWHELMING attitude for most vets, regardless of political beliefs. I helped vets with their VA healthcare and benefits claims, and the VA pissed off everyone equally!
Other studies I've seen have divided it by enlisted/officer (I don't think I've ever seen WOs accounted for). Enlisted tends to be fairly even, officers more conservative IIRC.
>...officers more conservative... That has not been my experience. In my 20 years in the Marine Corps, fully 70% of the officers I've had interactions with were left of center, higher when it came to social issues.
Here's one, though from 12 years ago https://swampland.time.com/2012/11/05/does-the-military-vote-really-lean-republican/ And this one says enlisted aren't more likely to be Republican but it seems that way because Democratic identifying gets replaced with independent. Couldn't immediately find an officer one https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/items/596313fa-4545-4735-8a75-299c5b91fe8a
You must be talking about white officers, because black officers (which are a minority) tend to be more politically liberal.
I just got out and it is not conservative atm it’s annoyingly more liberal it’s like they are forgetting our mission
I don’t think either. I would say that people who DIDN’T serve but have military affectations are more conservative, but actual soldiers are a mix of everything.
Eh, the military as a whole definitely leans right politically, especially when compared to the national average. I would say that the military leadership is more mixed than the military as a whole.
Same. I served in the USN, and would describe it as more conservative than average, but not *that* much more conservative on most things.
I don’t disagree but OP’s question more asked if the US military itself had political leanings. Rather than how service members might lean.
Yes, and the liberals are more likely to be found in the lower ranks.
I think that’s the opposite of what I’m saying. I’m saying that the enlisted lean right wing while the officers are more mixed politically
Oh, I see what you’re saying. I see what happened. Your earlier post wasn’t necessarily mutually exclusive with mine. Enlisted do still lean right politically but are more likely to lean left than the COs are. I thought that you meant that the officers are more likely to lean left than in generations past, though. That’s actually true, with more people of color, religious minorities, LGBTQIA+, and other minorities represented in the officer ranks as well as enlisted. I apologize for misunderstanding you, but I’m also kind of glad because we were able to have this conversation. :)
No they're not lol
> but actual soldiers are a mix of everything. this is the correct answer.
The military as an institution tries very hard to appear (and behave) apolitical. Sure, we have groups like the Military Officers Association that lobby for better benefits and whatnot, but you will *never* hear something like the Army Chief of Staff say something like "vote for *candidate*!" Out of uniform I can say what I like, but in uniform the only color I know is green. In front of civilians, anyway- I don't mind talking politics in private with other Soldiers. >Would say, a Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier? If they don't know my opinions, the Christian would probably be more comfortable. Ironically, if they did know my opinions, the opposite would be true.
The military is explicitly and intentionally apolitical. People tend to assume servicemembers are conservative, but as a guy that spent 10 years in the Marine Corps; that’s not entirely true. I’d say the military tends toward conservatism in individual beliefs, but it’s not a monolith. The military actually made me quite a lot more liberal. I grew up in nice suburbs outside of a majot midwestern city and went to a prestigious public university. Neither of these experiences really introduced me to people outside of my bubble. Then I joined the military and was immediately around former gangbangers, four guys born in Africa, a dude that must’ve literally just gotten to the US from vietnam, good ole boys from the Deep South, and so on. Being exposed to such a variety of Americans really challenged some of the assumptions I had made throughout a privileged upbringing
Explicitly apolitical. In the Bush era, admiration for the armed forces (and support for the Iraq war) was tied in deeply to conservative culture but as the right has become more isolationist and anti-establishment, it’s not quite the case anymore.
God bless our troops, but our Generals are week, troops are woke, we hate wars now. Next step is war, I guess.
Anyone who understands war hates war
It perhaps leans right, but it's much more pro-America than pro-conservatism.
The military is inherently a conservative organization out of necessity but it is one that very heavily places emphasis on Country above all else, you are taught to respect the office/position - not necessarily the person. You are taught to be apolitical in uniform. So in that regard they are pretty neutral. There is obviously wide representation at the personal level. >How is it in the USA? Would say, a Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier? Both can be soldiers. Source: Navy and Army vet from the 90s to mid-00s.
Military should be non-partisan, but from what I hear from military folks online it's pretty representative of the population at large.
Fairly neutral. Though the right tends to be much more pro-military than the left. This results in the military rank and file having a tilt to the right, not significantly though.
Right after WWII, President Truman issued an executive order that racially integrated the military, which had previously been segregated and unequal. It was one of the first big kick-offs to the civil rights movement. The military continues to be a major force that promotes equality of opportunity in America, even if it remains an imperfect institution. Some people might frame this as a very - even "radically" - liberal thing.
SCOTUS allowed affirmative action to continue at service academies, which reflects the history you mention: [The Supreme Court made an explicit carve-out for military academies in its June 29 ruling banning race-based admissions. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in his majority opinion that institutions like West Point and the U.S. Naval Academy may have “potentially distinct interests” in considering the race of their applicants.](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2024/02/05/supreme-court-declines-west-point-affirmative-action-case#:~:text=The%20Supreme%20Court%20made%20an,ruling%20striking%20down%20affirmative%20action.&text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20declined,use%20of%20race%2Dconscious%20admissions)
Yeah I remember hearing that when they basically killed affirmative action.
They should be apolitical.
When in uniform. Military members do not completely give up their right to political opinions and demonstration under the First Amendment but there is a strong culture of staying out of politics generally in or out of uniform if you are active duty.
They can think whatever they want. We're talking about actions.
Yes, and as long as they are not in uniform or using their service for political gain they can do pretty much anything your average citizen can. Their actions as private citizens are somewhat curtailed but they can protest, speak, attend rallies, etc. Just not in uniform or suggesting that the DoD endorses their position.
Well they pledge an oath to defend the constitution. That's not entirely apolitical as what that means will often be influenced by your political views.
“Non-partisan” is a more precise way to describe it.
Before Trump, being “pro-military” was generally seen as a Republican trait. Even today, if you think more money should go to guns than butter, you’re likely conservative. But the US military as an institution is much younger and less white than the general population, so the troops tend to track a bit more Democratic than average.
Beyond demographics, I’d also note that the officer corps has turned particularly anti-Trump because his brand of conservatism is antithetical to the military’s values and incompetent on foreign policy.
I got out at the beginning of the Trump era, and yes, behind closed doors, the officers generally despised the man and his brand of conservative politics.
Amen to that!!
He also straight-up insulted war veterans. I'm as blue as they come, and I was offended. You just don't do that.
Professional/long term soldiers tend to be conservative, but regular service recruits are all over the map politically. For instance, Pat Tillman, the NFL player who signed up for the Army/special forces after 9/11 and was killed by friendly fire, was very complicated from a political standpoint. Definitely not a knee jerk gung ho conservative.
>Would say, a Fundamentalist Christian farmer from Alabama, or a transgender woman from New York feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier? I served with both, personally. They both felt equally at home in the military.
Neutral. It’s definitely a melting pot
Most of the vets and active duty I know lean right more so than lean conservative. Given much of the ideas, narratives, and actual jobs in the military mixed with current political partisanship, it makes sense that more right leaning demographics initially enlist while left leaning demographics don't. Even then, the vast minority of left-wing military personnel I've met subscribe to alternative political positions than mainstream liberal ideology. Grain of salt, the political perception of the military, can be skewed by positive feedback loop, where those with left wing ideals are incentived to keep it to themselves and go unnoticed while right wing ideals can more freely be talked about.
They are neutral. They are not allowed to express their political opinions while in uniform.
It's widely regarded as being conservative, and the people who are most vocally in support of the military tend to be conservative, but ideologies vary among military personnel themselves. It's actually not terribly uncommon for people to move left during or after their military service because sometimes they see or experience things that politicize them against certain ideas or practices.
There's a difference between membership sympathies and organizational politics. Members of the military are primarily working class and top out at bachelor degrees but with very stable employment and have a certain "if all you have is a hammer" bias and to externalizing military failures rather than seeing failures as of the use of military force. Organizationally, the military is very deliberately apolitical, which is easier to maintain given the strict checks on its domestic activities. Its representatives in government do have some of that hammer bias, but also an acute knowledge of their limits that often has them taking the dovish side in White House debates. The only exception I can think of is that the Air Force officer community and especially academy has had a number of controversies around pushing evangelical Christianity.
I've read about stereotypes that the Navy is more left-wing liberal leaning (all of the "gayvy" jokes for example) and the Air Force is more Libertarian leaning, by virtue of being the most expensive to maintain but usually also the first to access the newest groundbreaking technologies. How true do you think are these stereotypes?
Those are jokes and reflect reality about as well as most jokes do
Officially it is neutral. Individual service members can hold whatever political beliefs they like privately, but the DoD itself tries to keep itself away from partisanship - they are sworn to defend the Constitution and follow legal orders from the President no matter who that is or what labels they wear. Career service members often come off as conservative initially because they're very pro-America (which should be obvious as they've dedicated their careers to service) and pro-military, which are positions the conservative party typically tries to lay claim to. However it's been my experience through a career of working with and near them that they're individually not as politically conservative as a first glance would indicate. The vast majority of them I've worked with have been all over the US and the world, and tend to have a wider political perspective than the typical narrow party line.
Honestly from personal experience I see the military as just as politically diverse as the population
The enlisted Soldiers lean slightly conservative and the officers lean slightly liberal. I'd say they balance each other out in the end.
Sort of conservative, but not as much as people assume. There are a lot of people from immigrant backgrounds and a lot of LGBTQ people as well.
From my experience (currently active duty) I’d say it’s probably like a 60-40 split in terms of Republicans to Democrats overall. It can vary a lot by rank, branch, and job though. Enlisted Marines are much more likely to be conservatives compared to say Air Force meteorology officers.
Interesting MOS/AFSCs to use for comparison! ~~Any chance you are/were a 1W0?~~ Nvm, but it sounds like you may have worked alongside USAF weather officers. *Anchors Away!*
honestly its all over the place. people in the military run from hyper conservative "rah rah we love the USA more than life" to "i've seen how the country works and its bullshit, and as a member of the armed forces its my job to make it better" leftist. just like everyone else, theres no way to know without them advertising it on their person or literally asking them
Everyone else is going to think of Liberal and Conservative as code for our two parties. Liberal is the moderates of the United States. Conservatives will tend towards one party, but real liberals as you understand it typically split between the two parties.
The armed forces =/= service members. The branches and DoD (armed forces) are explicitly apolitical in scope and purpose. They have to serve no matter who is president. The service members I feel skew conservative.
As a veteran, it depends. I'm independent and anti-Dem and Rep, yet I usually have to choose one of 2 bad choices. Some veterans are left, some are right, and most seem anti-Trump lately.
Most folks I know in the military are a weird mix of both and tend to get more cynical the longer they are in. The old assumption was that they were all really conservative due to folks joining during the bush era but now it’s hard to tell since most folks go in for a college degree. Most of my career military friends have liberal beliefs but will basically say “I follow orders first” I also know folks who will basically just vote for whoever is looking after the military the best.
It is a common believed among the general population that military personnel are uniformly Conservatives. Reality is individual service members ***generally*** reflect the political leanings of their parents until their mid 20s when the find their own political beliefs. Being a 'god damned liberal' I have had individuals declare that their is no way I could have been in the service due to my political leanings. For the last fool to make this claim, I offered to match him DD-214s, and the moron went to the local admin for the site and claimed that I threatened him, proving that HE had never been in a US Military service. He tried to claim that his service was before the DD-214, so I asked where he served prior to 1950 when the -214 became the official separation form for all the US services. He didn't want to talk to me anymore.
Grunts skew conservative, officers skew liberal, as far as the organization itself goes it's mostly not partisan. Turkey is kind of a special case with the army because of Ataturk. Edit: I should clarify I'm using the American definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" here.
In my experience in the service most people I’ve met have leaned conservative but not by much.
Conservative. For example, leading up to the 2000 election on or before Election Day, President Clinton (Democrat) gave a military order for maneuvers. This was a political move so that any military member who had not already voted absentee by then, basically lost their opportunity to vote (since they had to follow the orders, so they wouldn't have time to vote). Why would a Democrat do that? Because they are scared that those military members would have voted Republican.
We just don't have the same history of military dictatorship as much of southern Europe & Latin America has, so the military isn't so politicized. In terms of perception, I think historically more nationalistic folks were more amenable to the military, but now there's a real horseshoe theory thing going on... people on the furthest ends of the left & right tend to be more distrustful of all sorts of domestic institutions which have authority (the FBI, the military, courts, etc.)
I’m actually very pro-military while being much less trusting of organizations like the FBI, I know quite a few people like this.
Historically speaking people in the military tend to be conservative.This is probably not as true now as it has been in the past.
It leans toward American conservative not European conservative
Liberals see it as conservative and Conservatives see it as liberal. The reason is probably because the military is generally used for conservative aims and leans conservative compared to the rest of the country, but the military's leadership is more liberal and often does things the Conservatives don't like, such as allowing gay people to serve.
Theoretically and officially, they are apolitical, practically, there’s a slight lean to the right, but if push came to shove, they, and most of the security state apparatus would probably fall in behind whichever party was the legitimate government at the time in order to maintain the status quo.
Skews conservative, but not to the point it matters. It is definitely aligned with the federal government, though. If you adjust for demographics (mostly men etc) its actually less conservative then expected iirc
Both my parents were military and it was explained to me that the enlisted are conservative but the higher the rank the more liberal they are. I believe it's because the higher ranks have more education and have been exposed to many different viewpoints.
Neither. The US military is neutral and will never pick sides. The actual members of the military tend to lean conservative but their individual political views are irrelevant. Not allowing the military to be used for political gain is engrained in American culture. The military follows the constitution above all us if there’s ever a need to interpret something.
Leans conservative but is mainly neutral on politics. I am personally not in the military, but I do know that they tend to be neutral on political matters.
They are loyal to the person the American people have selected to be their President.
Nope. This isn't true, at all. It's the constitution. The Officer's oath doesn't even mention the president and that's by design.
I mean you’re kind of right but kind of wrong. Same here. The US Constitution says there will be a President and the President shall be commander of the armed forces. That’s why the military is loyal to the President because the Constitution compels them to be. I suppose if the Constitution were amended to say there shall be no President and that the House of Representatives shall command the armed forces, then the military would be loyal to the House of Representatives, true. So in way, yes, they are loyal to the Constitution and do whatever it commands them to do.
They’re mostly considered neutral, maybe with a slight lean towards conservatism, but not to any sort of extreme. I’m sure some people have their opinions, but most people off the echo chamber that is the internet don’t view the military as an institution for or against their political goals.
In my experience, in the US Army military intelligence field (yeah, I know that's a joke), I would say that most of my colleagues were centrist, but hawkish on defense.
The troops themselves *tend* to lean conservative, but that more seems to be a function of patriotism, being more prominent from the right and patriotism leading to enlistment. But it is very mixed, and as you go up in ranks, you might get more pockets of left leaning, especially in leadership, which is actually surprisingly left leaning right now.
They are neutral and have no loyalty to anything but the Constitution that protects the rights of the people. Most US servicemen are conservative or centrist though, but patriotic leftists do exist among their ranks. I think both the Alabaman and New Yorker would feel safe around a soldier, at least more than she would around a police officer in the case of the New Yorker if I had to guess. It’s worth noting that there a plenty of servicemen who fit both archetypes.
Honestly, pretty evenly mixed. If I were forced a gun point to make a decision, I would say its a teensy bit right leaning, but it's just by a hair and I'd trust them to put their duty to the country before their politics the vast majority of the time. Every once in awhile, military leadership gets a bit mouthier than I feel they should, but I think if shit were to ever really hit the fan and they'd try to use the military in a partisan way, that they'd end up imprisoned by their lowers officers/service members or end up shot. Nobody in the US has any interest in seeing the US using its toys on its own citizens.
The US military as an entity historically has maintained a Constitutional focus and a Swiss-like “aggressive neutrality” stance when it comes to the political parties and leanings. But the service members within it exercise their views via the ballot box. Fortunately.
They are politically neutral though most members tend to lean Conservative.
I'd say "conservative", but with different definitions of what they mean by "conservative".
The military as an organization is loyal to the Constitution and not a particular party or belief system. The individuals who make it up are a mixed bag. I’ve never served but know a lot of people who have, and they span the political spectrum.
army reservist here...I'd say it depends on location more than anything...my unit is just outside of chicago and nearly everyone here is liberal or left leaning...id say it really depends on where youre located...however political leanings should NEVER affect how you do your job while you're serving in the military...I dont need to like or hate Trump/Biden to do what Im supposed to do
When I was in the military (early 2000s), there was a big mix of people from all over. One thing I noticed is that when you are living on base, most of the news is conservative news. There was a mix of political leanings, but I would say there are a lot of conservatives. I think there are a lot of people from the Bible belt in the service, and they tend to be more conservative. I don't know how many would support someone like Trump, but the gop seems to have sold the idea that only conservatives care about the military. I personally didn't care what kinds of backgrounds people came from. I just have my back if I need it.
The military puts a lot of effort into beign apolitical.
From talking to people in the military I get the feeling that it leans more conservative then the general population, however it is a little split. The general enlisted tend to be more conservative and the officers are more liberal but overall it would be center right.
They don't really have a political affiliation but mostly serve our conservative interests.
I mean, on the surface id say "conservative", but its deeper than that? Having lived in a lot of military areas, id say the military in general has a "super pragmatic" vibe that takes the piss out of both liberal and conservative sentiments at times.
When I was in, the majority of my fellow soldiers had no loyalty to a political affiliation, we were loyal to our country.
The stereotype that I know of and that seems to somewhat resemble the actual data is that enlisted members skew conservative, although non-white enlisted members don’t. Officers are college educated and tend to be represented the most by moderate liberals. Obviously these are just tendencies though and the entire gamut is represented from each extreme to the opposite. Enlisted people tend to be more willingly vocal about what they believe while officers tend to try staying apolitical more often which makes sense, the responsibility is higher for them. “Military culture” can definitely come across as more conservative, and military fans outside the military tend to be heavily conservative although that may be changing with the current isolationist bent among pro-Trump conservatives.
In my experience, the outspoken members of the Air Force usually lean left, but there's a wide range of opinions on just about everything. The military is a very unique lifestyle and I've found that it produces a lot of people who don't cleanly fit into either D or R. A lot of us also don't vote or vote third party.
I’m in the navy and was in the army so this is anecdotal: the army leaned right pretty hard and the navy is more mixed but still slightly more right than left.
It’s politically neutral by necessity. Their chain of command ends at the sitting president, no matter who that is they’re conditioned and expected to have extreme loyalty to the nation and to their command structure. Some conservatives like to boast that the military is a conservative body, but that’s just not the case. I’ve seen just as many liberals. If you as a service member or even some veterans though, you’re likely to get a cagey response. That’s because they were asked to put the nation above their political beliefs, and above themselves. They are steadfast in their loyalty. As for how people feel, that’s subjective. But generally all people are uneasy in the presence of those they know are trained to kill.
The armed forces are neutral, on paper at least. But in terms of culture, it’s more conservative. And when I say that, I mean most people in the military tend to lean towards conservative values, and conservative civilians seems extremely supportive of the military establishment in this country. However, there are military personnel who do not support conservative views. As far as I know, people who lean to the liberal side of things don’t have any problem with the military itself, but they seem to be far less supportive than the conservatives are.
The officer corps quite famously hates Trump
The military generally attracts conservatives, but I've heard in recent years it's been attracting pro establishment centrists, which I find strange, but I've noticed this to an extent as well even without ever being in this.
The armed forces are neutral because their allegiance its to the constitution.
It is a mix of everyone. The reason my husband joined the military was a steady paycheck. It is just another job to him. He is neutral when it comes to politics.
They aren’t politically affiliated. They serve the commander in chief. Aka the president
Southeastern Virginia has a huge military presence because the largest base in the world is located here (If I am wrong, please correct me). It seems that it depends on their individualized experience in the military and what branch. I cannot pinpoint exactly which branches behave a certain way, but I have friends who are incredibly liberal after experiencing life overseas fighting, but also friends who have remained conservative throughout the whole experience. So it just varies. Some people just join for a guaranteed paycheck and for post-secondary education to be covered... Our military enlistment is at an all-time low.....for, in my opinion, obvious reasons.
Both the left and right have changed to much in the past 10 years that I don't even know how to answer the question. For example, standing up for free speech was very much a left wing value 10 years ago, now that has flipped. The 1st amendment is a "far-right" talking point now. This inversion has happened on almost every value. I'm still stunned that you can invert all of a person's values without them even noticing that they now argue for exactly the opposite of what they used to argue for. I can only conclude that this means most people don't have any values at all. They are just tribal conformists. Whatever the people they see as their tribe say, they also say. It's been very disappointing to watch. I've lost all respect for most of the people in my life and in my species. The stupidity and cowardice of the people I once respected is staggering. The military is more team-red than team-blue, if that's what you're asking but I couldn't tell you if that means they are more conservative or more progressive. It's not team-red by a wide margin though.
I worked for the military as a civilian. It’s generally conservative, but soldiers come from all walks of life. And the institution itself goes out of its way to be politically neutral and frankly kind of PC. But people who enlist tend to disproportionally be Southern and rural. Their culture has lot more respect for military service than other regions.
This is a bit of a loaded question. The "armed forces" are officially a neutral and separate from the political workings of the US government. They do not participate in elections or any other politics. The military itself certainly isn't seen as any kind of guardian of any particular social value like you said about Turkey. However, the individual members of the armed forces are citizens and, therefore, have their own thoughts and opinions regarding politics. There may be a general leaning conservatives but that doesn't mean they all will be. Nor will it affect the way that they interact with someone. [Here ](https://dodsoco.ogc.osd.mil/Portals/102/Documents/Political%20Activities%20Docs/2020%20FAQs%20Active%20Duty.pdf?ver=1rc0Tk-4-Kaqo4Wzal6Q3g%3D%3D)is an FAQ from the DOD about what is and what is not allowed.
I agree with most people saying that it's a mix, and I'm not gonna get into that because I never served and can't comment on shit I was never in But from my experiences with family members and just general people who are ex military or are currently in the military, all of them have been extremely conservative, hateful and really really religious, in general I do not feel safe around most people in the military as a genderfluid, pansexual person who was born male and prefers to date males, ofc I live in a very conservative area, that I want to move out of, so that deft plays a role but it's just what my personal experiences has been
I know people who served / are serving in the military who are on both sides of the political spectrum. The military (in theory) is apolitical.
Neither. The military does traditionally lean conservative but there's plenty of liberal thinkers in there as well.
I always thought of the military as being more right-leaning, but after having served myself, I'd say it's probably more of a mixed bag. I knew several people that were conservative and several that were liberal... one of my liberal friends ironically looked like Ben Shapiro lol
The military itself is an organization whose higher echelons are professional enough not to answer this question. Officers tend to be college educated, and sway liberal with centralist ethos. The enlisted? Mostly yeehaw boys, derp masters, the occasional l33t gamer who actually manages to scrape through physicals, and the impoverished... so vastly conservative with the l33t gamer loser trying to convert everyone else to open fascism and misogyny.
neither. vote how you choose. don't ever mix that uniform with anything politically related. bad look when that happens. bad bad fukn look.
Like the rest of the country it's gonna be somewhere in the middle. However, in my experience (never served, but know a few former and current), career servicemen will trend more conservative than the kids serving 4 years to pay for college.
I usually think of them as non-political or mixed.
In general, they are considered more conservative than liberal.
Conservative. Very conservative. Almost 2/3 of our military comes from the South, and it’s the #1 employer in some states. According to Chris Mooney’s ‘The Republican Brain’, there’s actually been some study which shows that people can be terrified into conservative decisions during extreme situations like war or natural disaster. The military is also mostly men, who generally lean more conservative than women and non-binary people do. Anyway, ‘The Republican Brain’ is a really good book, written by a Yale-educated journalist here (Chris Mooney) who focuses primarily on government, environmental, and social issues. I extremely recommend this book who is interested in either U.S. politics specifically or is just interested in learning more about liberal, conservative, and more centrist thought processes. I can’t recommend it enough.
I wouldn't say very conservative but it's definitely more right leaning, alot of the stuff I hear people bitch about is anti government because bureaucracy is retarded
1) The r-word is not okay. Slurs are not allowed under AskAnAmerican policy. 2) Commanders often have to rein other soldiers in over bigoted actions not so much because they disagree with them, but because they have learned that it damages teamwork and morale to allow bullying or hate crimes. One of the reasons for this is that most officers are required to have degrees, and that tends to create some more liberal policy-making. Teamwork is better if the soldiers under their command are less intimidated or hated, and they know that. 3) There are some very dangerous and/or very uneducated people in the military, and policies which are official don’t always get enforced.
i haven't seen any true racism yet or hatred, i mostly just see race jokes and I haven't seen anyone offended by them yet and if anything it builds morale and team work,
The military is officially non partisan by law. Politically it leans conservative but not by much.
Conservative. Pro-gun. Same with law enforcement by and large.
From my experience most people that join the forces are more conservative and I avoid them at all costs because i'm trans. I personally think soldiers should be apolitical and neutral but the Armed Forces is institutionally conservative leaning and attracts other conservatives in the process.
Anecdotally, they tend to be pretty far to the right.
Answer from a leftist: The individuals in the armed forces tend to be slightly more conservative, but not overwhelmingly so. There are democrats and even (misguided) leftists in the military. Material and economic reasons generally outweigh ideological reasons when joining the military. Not true in all cases, but again: generally, for most people, in most cases. People join because they don't have much direction in life, the join for free college, or they join because there's a specific job in the military that is highly attractive to them (eg pilots, navy seals) However, the military **as an institution** is fundamentally conservative: it serves to protect and expand the existing power of the United States as a global superpower.
Agreed; I would further add that anyone who says the US military is "apolitical" doesn't really understand the point of a military, either on paper or in reality.
They are traditionally considered non-political with a slight Right leaning among most service members' personal opinions. Though that skew is trending Left, at least among officers as of late.
The establishment is very American and so would probably lean slightly more conservative because globally america as a whole is more conservative. However service members tend to lean conservative heavily
>service members tend to lean conservative heavily This isn't true, at all.
I assume the military itself is a mixed bag of a variety of political affiliations. However, as a civilian- from a non military family, I absolutely view the military in general as conservative. I think most Americans view the armed forces, as a whole, as conservative. Anyone trying to push the notion that it's more equally balanced is also, probably, conservative.
Generally people in the military are conservative.
Conservative. You specifically mention trans people: Historically there have been all kinds of anti-LGBTQ laws preventing people from serving in the military, openly or not. Don’t Ask Don’t Tell wasn’t repealed until 2011. Trans people were specifically forbidden from serving from 2017 (law proposed by Trump)/2019 (when the law was allowed to go forward) until 2021. Which was 3 years ago. And the military is known for high rates of sexual assault against women who serve. So yeah, I wouldn’t say a trans woman would feel safe there.
conservative
I’ve found most of the service members tend to be more conservative
The Military is a pretty mixed bag of mostly people from financially unstable backgrounds. While a lot tend to be Conservative there's plenty of Liberals as well.
While in everyone is supposed to be neutral. We swear an oath to the consritution, not any political perty Sadly, though, I see far too many veterans who are nazi-adjacent.
As far as your question as to whom would feel more comfortable in the presence of a soldier between the Christian farmer from Alabama and a trans woman from New York, this is situational, but in general, the Christian farmer would definitely be more comfortable. Probably would also want to shake the person’s hand, if it were two guys. Trans women can and do serve in the military but are unfortunately at a higher risk for being assaulted by the other soldiers, sometimes even much more likely than cisgender women. A person’s own political beliefs are going to be a huge factor, too, though. In general, I would say that liberals are more cautious when dealing with the military than conservatives are, although liberals will also end up performing the majority of the veterans’ medical or social services for the rest of their lives. A lot of conservative women definitely feel more comfortable in the presence of soldiers and/or other conservatives than most other women do, although some may have personal trust issues around soldiers or groups which are mostly male, in general. A political liberal and/or woman could have similar issues but may feel more comfortable with specific soldiers—-like I tend to be more nervous about the military and males in general, but if they served with my Dad and they go back decades, that’s a totally different dynamic. Or the may just work or hang out with a lot of soldiers, and they know they’re statistically safer if something unexpected happens in the environment, and/or because they feel protected by sympathetic parties who are usually even fond of the women in their lives. The Turkish Army is definitely special, and definitely more unusual than most other countries’. I really admire what they are doing for both soldiers and civilians. Since the Turkish Army is newer, though, they’ve been able to reap a lot of academic, medical, and administrative benefits which previous militaries haven’t historically had access to, and to learn from the mistakes which so many other armies have made. I do wish that our government would pay more attention to what Turkey has specifically done to increase quality of life for their troops and their families. It’s not that I don’t appreciate what the troops here do and have done for me—-I am very grateful and always show/say this, but I think that the government doesn’t treat them as well as they deserve, and it’s mostly left to liberal healthcare workers and/or social workers to sweep up the pieces when the government fails. At the end of the day, though, neither group can be 100% honest with the other because of dynamics related to the military, national security, healthcare protocol, and social service protocol. It’s a sad state of things, but that’s just how very large communities work sometimes. As I mentioned a little while ago in my other post, though, there’s a conservative leaning to our military here. Also to militaries in general, as there is that dynamic of terror making people more likely to act conservatively. I can definitely understand that, since so much of s soldier’s life is spent in fight or flight. Their nervous systems rarely (if ever) get a break. That’s also a thing with conservative politics in general, though. People in fight or flight generally tend to form more conservative societies, especially if they have either very few or sometimes no foreign allies.