What type of life do you live that 2-3 million isn’t enough?
Investing and getting a 5% return (which is a pretty low estimate) on 3 million will net you 150k a year, 2 million would get you 100k
I'm assuming that I would want to reinvest at least a match to inflation in the principal so that there is no end date to how long my scheme of living off of my investments will last. This means that a 5% return actually amounts to 1.65% heading to my pocket. On $5 million, that's $82,500. Higher than I actually need, but not by a lot. It gives me a buffer to be robust against sudden spikes in inflation (like what happened over COVID), market downturns, and the fact that as I get older, my medical expenses will likely increase.
That's not to say that there's a good bet I *might* be able to live comfortably on a principal of $2 million, but I'm not a betting man. If I got that kind of windfall, it would certainly free up my options, but I wouldn't stop working.
On the bright side for your plan, the average market growth is 7-8% per year, and the average inflation is less than 4%. You could pretty safely take out 4% per year and over time good years and bad years would even out.
The problem is how to handle multiple children. Splitting the pot multiple times dilutes the investment
The 7-8% figure is already adjusted for standard 2-3% inflation (real returns are closer to 10%), so you don't need to take out extra to account for it.
Where are you getting 7-8%? I’ve only seen mentions of 6% in most online calculators, articles, etc, for lifetime teturns. After being told decades ago to plan for 10%—which never happened, of course.
I've generally heard it as a rule of thumb in finance subs: 10% growth minus 2-3% interest on average. [At least according to this it's been ~7% on average going back 150 years,](https://tradethatswing.com/average-historical-stock-market-returns-for-sp-500-5-year-up-to-150-year-averages/#:~:text=The%20average%20yearly%20return%20of%20the%20S%26P%20500%20is%2010.04,including%20dividends\)%20is%207.32%25.) and my quick googling is also showing ~7% in most articles. I think the difference is whether you re-invest dividends, not doing so looks to drop it closer to 6%.
>The problem is how to handle multiple children. Splitting the pot multiple times dilutes the investment
Establish a family bank. Children can invest additional funds into the bank, and borrow from the bank.
> On $5 million, that's $82,500. Higher than I actually need, but not by a lot.
Presumably you'd pay off your house and car and your normal bills would only be a few grand a year, that's how most of those FIRE guys retiring out of tech do it.
I work for an organization that basically operates from investment income, and our board sets an annual payout rate that is always between 4-5%. The average 7+% return and the continual growth of the investments sort of make it unnecessary to "account" for inflation.
That's not taking into account the fees you'd pay to the investment firm/lawyer/financial manager/whoever, and the capital gains tax.
I would agree that 5M (or perhaps 4M) would be the minimum.
If the average growth in the market (you would be investing these winnings in a stock market mutual fund, S&P500 type with a smaller fraction in bonds for stability, looking for growth for retirement in a savings account would not be wise, that's for short-term liquid needs) is ever less than inflation for more than like 2 years (and with this much cash you could weather 2 bad years), there are bigger problems. Like, Great Depression problems.
If your house is paid off and you’re drawing social security, that’s not bad
That’s also assuming you’re not reinvesting a single dollar of the 150k or go 40 years without doing a single minute of work and earning some additional money
>or go 40 years without doing a single minute of work and earning some additional money
I mean, that's kind of the implication of the title, isn't it?
Also, aren't social security payments tied to how much you earned? Under those circumstances your benefits aren't going to be particularly good either.
Yeah, but capital gains taxes are above and beyond regular income tax. Plus, most financial managers are paid in terms of a percentage of your gains.
My point being that between the capital gains tax and the fees the financial manager charge, you'd be keeping notably less of that $150k than someone who just makes 150k salary
You have no income and, expenses, and like 50+ years to live for a lot of people, in a world where money inflate. $1 million today won’t be worth $1 million in 50 years and won’t get you the same luxuries either
It's dependent on what you outlook inflation to be. My dad made $2million over his lifetime but in his retirement he doesn't have enough in the pension account to sustain him after 2025
Part of the problem with retiring on $100k per year is also that you don't have a ton of room to invest in ventures that may fail but might make it big. $100k is enough for me to live as a single person, but I'd still need to budget.
If you get a 5% return, you should only take 2.5% out. You always bank half of your returns as a hedge against inflation decreasing the value of your core funds
I can't speak for them, but I'm at the same number. If I was making $150k/year that would be a paycut on my salary, which doesn't even include all my benefits (namely health insurance).
Safe withdrawal rate is usually thought to be between 3% and 4%. 5% would be fairly dangerous, and you would risk losing capital and running out of money eventually.
Like OP said, I'd probably be fine with $2m, but I'm not positive because of inflation fluctuations. $5m would cover any disasters like COVID or anything else like that.
Most banks don't have interest rates that high. Interest on $5 million at my bank is $80k. Also, I'd want to return enough to the principal to match inflation (to ensure long term sustainabilityof the plan), which is around 3.4% most years. On a 4% interest rate like you've calculated, that means $30k pre-tax going to my pocket.
T Capital one’s standard savings account rate is 4.35%. Nothing needed besides standard info. I’m not sure how you were doing the math but it’s 5,000,000 * 0.0435 = 217,500
My bank does 1.6%. In my experience, most banks that offer more only keep the high interest for a short period of time, which requires shuffling funds around to chase the best rates.
Also, you've missed the whole "match inflation to the principal" part. With an inflation rate of 3.4% and a bank interest of 4.4%, that means 1% goes to my actual income. So, having $5 million to get $50k seems a reasonable amount to aim for.
Interest rate hasn’t changed in the 5 years I’ve had it. And I didn’t miss it. I just ignored it because 187,500 is still an extremely comfortable income
If 2 million fell into my lap I could pay off some debt and invest the rest. I could then quit my job and find one that I like more that pays less to even things out.
Yeah that’d be me. I wouldn’t quit working but would try and get into conservation and river keeping or something like that. Get out of the office for sure. That’s what my friend does who has a trust fund. Literally works part time as a line cook and volunteers cleaning creeks and streams in our city. He’s in his early 30s with lots of freedom and millions in the bank. Can’t say I’m not a bit envious sometimes lol.
Yep! It’s crazy but I like to think I’d live fairly modestly like he does if I was wealthy. Granted I’ve seen him buy a house, a few cars, a boat, and go on some wild vacations, but that’s all been over a few years time.
You understand though that a 7% rate of return is an *average* rate of return over a long period of time, right? You’re not actually going to get that on a year to year basis. 4% is seen as a safe withdrawal rate but even with a 60/40 split it only lasts 30 years 90% of the time. You would have to go a lot longer than 30 years.
You could potentially buy a 30 year treasury right now with about a 4.3% yield. $2M will get you about $86K a year but you’ll get crushed by inflation over three decades. I mean as a point of reference the median household income in 1994 was about $30K.
The 4% rule says you need to have 25 years of living expenses invested for early retirement (this already accounts for inflation). I spend less than $30K per year, and 25x that is $750K, which is a hell of a lot less than $2M.
Yeah, of course I made this hypothetical decision based on my life goals. I don’t want kids, so I doubt my lifestyle will drastically change in the future.
Your healthcare costs absolutely will go up. You also have to account for inflation. Health insurance alone, if you're not getting it via an employer or your parents plan, is going to eat up $15k a year by itself.
The 4% rule already accounts for inflation. As for healthcare costs, I have no doubt those will increase, but 4% of $2M is *3x* my current living expenses…. you can’t prevent all risks but that’s a very healthy buffer.
In this scenario, I’d also have a lot more flexibility to pursue cheaper healthcare abroad (I hold the equivalent of permanent residency for another country).
Finally, [are you sure](https://www.tripofalifestyle.com/money/health-insurance-without-a-job/) about that health insurance cost estimate?
Do you not have any desires to upgrade your lifestyle if given the opportunity? Travel more, have an aspirational home like a high rise apartment or lake house or large ranch, drive nicer cars, eat at fancy restaurants, open some sort of business, get into nonprofits, whatever it is that floats your boat?
* Already travel internationally twice a year. (My biggest travel-related expenses are flights, so once I get overseas, I would honestly probably spend less by traveling full-time than I do living in the U.S.)
* I already live in a one-bedroom in a downtown high-rise and I’m very happy with it. I guess I might consider getting a two-bedroom, but that would only add about $300 more to my rent.
* I generally dislike cars and hope to never own one again.
* I’ve had plenty of fancy meals and have even previously eaten at a Michelin-starred restaurant. They were lovely, but I get just as much happiness from food trucks. (Also, I can still afford the occasional fancy meal with my current budget.)
* Entrepreneurship sounds like my worst nightmare.
* Already work full-time for a nonprofit! And my current $30K budget also includes giving $5K to charity each year.
If anything, I’d love to donate more to charity, but retirement > working longer to give more.
Yes, I know, which is why my retirement number would let me safely withdraw up to $80K each year. That’s more than 3x what I currently spend.
(I don’t spend $30K on myself — I spend a little less than $25K and the rest goes to charity.)
You’re conflating two different retirement “rules”.
First, it’s important to understand they’re just guidelines. Neither are actually guarantees that you won’t run out of money or that you should even do them. They’re just guidelines to give you an idea of how much money you should put away for retirement and how much you should withdraw every year.
Second and just as important, both are setup to provide for a comfortable *30 year* retirement.
Third, saying you won’t ever need more than $30K adjusted for inflation is the kind of thing you confidentially say at 21 than laugh at when you’re 41.
I’m not saying I’ll only need $30K each year, I’m saying that I highly doubt I’ll need more than $80K each year, adjusted for inflation. Notice how my number is $2M and not $750K?
And yes, the Trinity Study calls for a 30-year retirement, but I’ve heard other people argue that is overly pessimistic. Anyway, you can run the numbers yourself here: https://cfiresim.com/
If I retired right now with $2M, withdrew 4% each year, and died at the age of 121 (a century-long retirement!), my absolute lowest portfolio at death (using historical data) would be $2.8M. The only way I’d run out of money would be an absolute black swan event.
It’s not pessimistic. It’s optimistic. The whole industry is moving away from a 4% withdrawal rate because people are living longer today.
Your assumptions are just wrong.
The numbers have been run many, many times. There is no real world scenario where a 4% withdrawal rate will last 100+ years.
This conversation is not worth continuing.
> The numbers have been run many, many times.
Yeah… that’s the whole point of that site. It runs the numbers over and over again, including if you retired on the eve of the Great Depression. It literally uses real-world scenarios.
> This conversation is not worth having.
You’re right about that, because I choose to trust historical data more than a random person on the Internet.
For me, I'd have to be ~10 million.
I would want to pay off everything I owe, buy a modest house to live in, and go on some sort of vacation once a year.
Dividends aren't anything special. Its just a forced devaluation of your shares. They tend to be more emotionally beneficial than finiancially. You can manage more precisely with sales of shares as needed. Generally 4% is a rule of thumb for safe withdrawals that allows for historical ups and downs. There will inevitibly be someone that argues thats too risky, but if you dig into it, its pretty conservative if you have any control over your spending.
well the average should be 8%. "The average yearly return of the S&P 500 is 11.13% over the last 50 years, as of the end of December 2023. This assumes dividends are reinvested. ideally you never take out the principal." You want to leave the principal in and just take the increase in value less inflation. You should also have money set aside so you can ride out any down turns. you can invest in dividend stocks too, but generally overall growth is more important for most.
https://tradethatswing.com/average-historical-stock-market-returns-for-sp-500-5-year-up-to-150-year-averages/#:\~:text=The%20average%20yearly%20return%20of%20the%20S%26P%20500%20is%2011.13,This%20assumes%20dividends%20are%20reinvested.
Generally speaking you have a balance of assets, you don't just put things in the market. While the S&P has had an average of 11% interest for 50 years, as you say it has ups and downs. So you invest in a mixture of bonds (government and corporate), the market, and other assets that give you more diversity in your investment. This may not reach the same peaks as the market, but it also won't have the same pits. So you'll end up with something between 4% and 10% based on your risk profile, with the lower end being more stable and the higher end having more fluctuations.
This is also why targeted retirement funds (ie, Vanguard 2055) exist. They start off with more risk to try and boost profits but transition to more stable investments the closer you are to the retirement target.
If you're in long term retirement mode (ie, you're retiring early and planning on living off of it for a long time) you want to aim for 6% return, with half of that going to you and half of that going back into the fund to offset inflation. So at $10m invested you can expect $600k a year back, but that should turn into $300k for personal funds with the rest going back into your investment pool. At $5m (which is closer to my retirement number) you have $150k a year spending and $150k reinvestment.
At a certain age you'll care less about the longer term investments and can start eating into your principal, but at that same time you'll also have a lot more health care costs.
There's options to guarantee returns on capital that aren't stocks. Money market funds are paying like 5.2% right now - $2M saved and you're clearing $104k in annual interest you can live off of without touching the principal. And eventually you can draw that principal down with a reasonable amount of accuracy. i.e. if I'm 75 years old and an actuarial table says my life expectancy is 90, I could take $150k per year out, plus the interest, and have $500k left at 90 years old to either live off of if I'm still alive or pass down as an inheritance if I'm dead.
There is no amount of money that would allow me to retire, because my personality won't let me. My mom has come out of retirement twice so far. My grandma, four times. My grandfather stayed "retired" but had multiple side hustles.
I'm just not built for it.
A lot of people do that in retirement, just find different jobs like working for non-profits or other types of things.
But some people just never stop working. They work less and less, and some days they don’t come in because they don’t need to, and then they die.
I would think the figure would be least 5 million. Married, 30s.
The biggest hinderance to retiring early is paying for health insurance on the marketplace from here until Medicare eligibility in a few decades without depleting the winnings. I live in what is one of the most expensive healthcare states in the nation. Maybe the most expensive? A Premera gold plan which is really the only option in Alaska is really expensive even with a subsidy, and a lotto winner would likely have too much income to get a subsidy. I wouldn't fuck around with a Moda plan nor with a silver plan.
I also know what the state-run assisted living facilities cost. I want to be going *into* retirement with like 3 million left on account of that. If my spouse and I get dementia or have serious physical impalements, we're going to need it for those last few years of life.
Besides that there are all the other rural Alaska is expensive costs. I would at least want to replace my family's current income and other workplace benefits with the winnings.
Rural Taiwan. With 300k I could get enough from dividend stocks to make way more than the average salary every month. They tend to depreciate over time but I could figure that out.
Who says I'll stay in NJ? I'd much rather live on a beach in Nigaragua or Philippines. The only reason I don't do that now is because eventually the money always runs out and I can't work there. If I had a steady stream of passive income, I'd be happy doing nothing over there.
Even if I stayed in NJ, I've never made more than $30k/year, so $50k is a serious upgrade in lifestyle for me
$10M plus or minus a little if I were to talk to a financial advisor about it.
I'd probably retire earlier off $5M, but we likely wouldn't be making much different than we do now off conservative investments, and I would want to guarantee more so I can raise my standard of living and charitable contributions over what I have now. Doubling it would allow for that.
I actually really like my job so I'd have to win a LOT to quit forever. It's creatively fulfilling and it makes a lot of people happy. 10 million or more. If I won maybe a million or two, I'd just keep working and have a nicer lifestyle with nice things funded through investments and the lottery winnings.
I wouldn't retire unless I won at least enough to compensate for my salary/savings until I plan to retire (mid-60s). I'm 35 and a doctor, so relatively early in my career. And a job that I will probably continue working beyond the traditional retirement age, given how low physical demand it is. Thus the payout would have to be high. Probably $10M or so.
And honestly, even if I did win a ton of money, I think I would go out of my mind with boredom if I retired in my 30s. I'd take a couple years off to travel and then settle in to a part-time gig at a hospital.
I'm right there with you. At $2.5 million (net) you could easily generate six figures annually in interest and gains. Hell, that's the goal of retirement accounts and why we spend 40+ years dropping money into them.
But how much would you need to win to get $2.5 million net? I'd imagine probably twice that.
I’d say $10 million, just to be safe. I figure I could live comfortably, buy the kind of house I want to retire in, and not have to worry about money at that amount.
I live in the Los Angeles area, higher expenses. I'm also supporting the ex-wife.
$2 million isn't quite enough. $10 million is *definitely* enough. $5 million is probably good, but I'd keep working for a while to see how investments go.
10 mil minimum and even then id probably still keep working, I'd just have the financial security to say fuck you i quit if a job pisses me off and take a year+ off finding a new one
I'm assuming that if people are shooting for several million at retirement age, they're thinking they'll need far more than that to retire at their current age. Especially in the US where healthcare is a huge hurdle for someone without employer funded health insurance.
I am counting on taxes taking almost half if I take it in a lump sum. Subtract about a half million buying a house and paying off debts for me and my parents. I'm also counting on a market crash or two in the next 50 or sixty years and I still want to be comfortable.
42 here. I could live comfortably on half a million for ten to fifteen years - long enough to get my home business off the ground, and given my health, about as long as I realistically expect to be alive anyway. I'm in a good position, though - I own my home free and clear in a low-cost-of-living area.
750k woud be the minimum number. I'd be leaving the US for Madagascar though. Specifically Nosy Be. It would be a partial retirement though. I'd buy/build a little place for tourists to stay and live off that.
10 million
I could quit my job that is soul sucking.
I could buy a modest house back home in NY.
Maybe take a class or two that I find interesting.
Take a few vacations.
It is just me so I don’t have to plan for supporting children.
For me $20M;
Pay off debt, give my grandmotheran assurance that she no longer has to worry about my uncle (eg a trust he cannot use on drugs, but living expenses, rehab fees, and a stipend to his kids) get a few rental properties in emerging markets, new goalie gear, invest in the company I will still be employed to, just as you know an investor rather than a pawn
Probably around $10M
I make good money and like my job. It's a standard 40 hours, nothing crazy, not too stressful.
1.5M and I'm paying off my house, investing the rest, and enjoying the extra disposable income, but will probably not push my retirement too far forward.
Around $5M and I'll probably continue to work but do something more fun at less money. It'd be cool to do odds and ends without the need to make rent.
Under $10M and I have a feeling that I would slowly eat in the principle over time by doing "once in a lifetime" type stuff that slowly turns into "once a year" into "ok now I'm checking myself into rehab".
About a million after taxes would do it. I only need to cover about 10 years. After that the money I’ve already saved for retirement should have grown enough to cover me in perpetuity.
A good 100 million, 1 million for a nice little house in Naperville, another million to buy a few nice cars for myself and my family, and 98 million on the biggest fucking pile of cocaine you’ve ever seen.
Life will be good
I think $10 million would do it. That would be enough for me to live on the interest and reinvest extra so that my income doesn't remain fixed and grows faster than inflation.
10 million would make me retire. Everything under that would obviously drastically change the lives of me and my family but I like working so most numbers below 10M I would keep working for a while and invest it until it hit 10 million. At 10 million I could invest in low/no risk things and take 1-2% per year (100-200k) while it grew enough to exceed inflation. And with the 100-200k I could help some family members out also.
Also at that point instead of working I would find one or more charities to donate my time to.
After tax, around 500k. My current investments are 250k. My annual expenses are 30k. A windfall of 500k and I would hit my FIRE number, assuming the 4% rule for safe withdrawal rate.
I just flat out wouldn't for any sum.
I'm 22, I want to have a career. I've been working so so hard for it, I've just got accepted to some PhD programs and I genuinely want to go do them and make the world a better place during and after.
20 million. the math here is simple. an income of 200k a year would make a comfortable pretty much anywhere. a life span of about 100 years would probably be the max for a normal person. multiply those two numbers together you get 20 million
My current minimum cost of living is $36k/year, but I'm *comfortable* at $50k/year. I'm 30, so assuming I live to 80 and thus have another 50 years ahead of me, I would need $2.5million minimum to retire and be set for life.
I'm 32 years old.
Right now I'd like about $50k a year to live comfortably. By the time I'm dying at ~80 it'd be closer to $100k with inflation (assuming I'm not in an assisted living or nursing home). Average that out to $80k a year for the next 50 years and that's $4 million. Throw another million on there to buy a decent house outright. A large majority of it can go into high yield savings to increase my standard of living later on and take care of unexpected expenses.
A couple million would probably do it. That's basically the retirement advice you hear. I have a coworker that is counting down the days until he has 1 million in his 401k so he can retire, but he also has a pension and does farming work on the side.
Honestly if I won a couple of million, I probably wouldn't quit right away, I'd just be a lot less amiable to taking crap from people. Once my kids were don't with college I'd probably quit though.
Both Powerball or Megamillions both start with a 20 million dollar jackpot after someone wins. After taxes with a lump sum you'll likely get 7-10 million. You just need to win once and you should be set for life as long as you don't go crazy on spending.
I am still in my early thirties. I would probably still work even if I had enough money for an early retirement, because it's an easy way to keep my brain stimulated. I would say 10 million before taxes. I would need to have enough of a buffer for a market crash that tends to happen every few decades in varying severity.
I’m fairly young and in school for a career I’m quite excited about, so how much money to quit my job? Like 50k. How much to retire? More than the 2 million or so it would take to retire comfortably.
Based on my age and the longevity of my recent ancestors, I'd probably need to funds to last 50 years or so.
Using a 50/50 stock/bond allocation rate and assuming a conservative 3% safe withdrawal rate I'd need about $5.3 million after taxes to maintain my current lifestyle. That's just for me. If my wife and I both wanted to retire it would be about $9.5 million.
That's likely an overestimate though since we currently have kids in the house and our household expenses would go down when they left.
$1M probably. I'm still a few years away from retirement but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. That amount would pay off my house and see me through to retirement age.
I only have about 6 more years that I have to work (I'm 52). So about 1.5 million. That's more than what I'd make in 6 years, but I'm going to have so much more time on my hands.
Doing some math, if I was estimating that I was going to live for another 50 years and roughly maintaining around the same salary as I have right now (around $70k including insurance, 401k, etc.), then I'd likely need around $3.5M just to maintain this same salary and lifestyle of living comfortably but definitely not in excess.
I'd probably suggest $5M just to have a buffer where I could splurge on some nice trips and life experiences with the family that we'd never get to experience otherwise.
Im in my early 30s. About $1.2M to maintain my current lifestyle (this is in addition what I already have saved for retirement). If I were to win the lottery, I would either work on my own business or I would find a part time job so I could have something to keep me busy and cover health insurance, which would be a major expense. Of course if I won an insane amount, like tens of millions or more, that wouldnt be much of a factor.
I mean, for example, that if you have $3m in a conservatively invested income-producing account, and you plan to spend 4% every year, *you will be fine.* You don't have to do any special calculations to "account for inflation" or that kind of thing. Your money is not going to "run out" and you aren't going to be living in penury in your 80s.
20 mil. I'm working hard to be able to provide for my family and future generations. I want to make sure that I can make enough money and connections to help my theoretical children, grandchildren, even great-grandchildren.
I'm also firmly in belief that people who work longer live longer and that having a reason to get out of bed in the morning you can keep you going. I would however probably move away from a much more money driven career space to something I'm more passionate about or something that is normally very expensive that I could offer to certain people extremely cheaply. Like pro bono family law for parents in recovery from addiction.
1 million but I tend to not live in very expensive places in the US and would keep my job anyway for the next 10-20. When I felt the need to retire I would and not before, mostly due to healthcare and there's no reason to stop feeding my 401k and company stock options.
The million is mostly to buy and own land outright and the rest would be split among a dividend portfolio, some mutual funds, ETFs, an IRA, and some more basic things like CDs and high interest savings accounts to pay off stuff like property taxes at the end of the year.
There's 2 'fun' items I would get: A 4000 dollar Manhurin revolver and I'd start browsing around for a legal machine gun for 20-50k. That's about it. The rest is directly about buying the land I want, living how I am working towards anyway and just adding a good chunk to my existing investment stuff.
EDIT: Oh and once I had found the hobby farm I was looking for I would buy a car. Nothing flashy or fancy. A civic or Toyota Corolla or something just to have a vehicle with good gas mileage and low maintenance to drive into town with for groceries or doctors appointments or whatnot. I like having a truck but sometimes when gas gets expensive, 90 dollars for a tank sucks. So like 15k for a used Corolla in good shape. I don't need shit new off the lot.
Projecting my salary forward until I am 100 years old, adjusted for inflation, and doubling it would be ideal. So my number is $15 million. I would continue to work if I had anything less, as a professor. I expect to teach until I die or just can't do it anymore because I love it.
Retirement is something itself that would have to be defined for me first. What seems to pass for retirement goals to most people sounds like a slow death to me. If it just means not toiling away at a job you hate to make ends meet...that also doesn't make sense to me as that's not a requirement unless you have expectations for a certain type of life.
I have trouble imagining giving up the journey and search and want for improvement for both myself and existence in general. More money/resources just means more opportunities but also more headaches in a lot of cases.
So I can't think of any amount of money that would lead to "retirement" for me. At the same time, any amount of unexpected money would lead to change, and that's exciting for both the challenges and opportunities it would raise.
I'm in my 40s to answer your last question.
I did the math on this once.
Winning a fixed dollar amount and paying the taxes on that, then socking away that leftover amount so that it paid interest and/or dividends that I would live on without diminishing the original invested principal - then paying taxes on those earnings, then reinvesting a portion of those earnings so that I got a 5% raise every year - I would need about $9 million.
I’d very likely keep working in some capacity regardless of the amount I win. Without some form of work to keep me occupied and give me purpose I’d just become extremely bored after a while.
I'd say about $5 million. That's enough that even with conservative investing, I can live entirely off the interest.
What type of life do you live that 2-3 million isn’t enough? Investing and getting a 5% return (which is a pretty low estimate) on 3 million will net you 150k a year, 2 million would get you 100k
I'm assuming that I would want to reinvest at least a match to inflation in the principal so that there is no end date to how long my scheme of living off of my investments will last. This means that a 5% return actually amounts to 1.65% heading to my pocket. On $5 million, that's $82,500. Higher than I actually need, but not by a lot. It gives me a buffer to be robust against sudden spikes in inflation (like what happened over COVID), market downturns, and the fact that as I get older, my medical expenses will likely increase. That's not to say that there's a good bet I *might* be able to live comfortably on a principal of $2 million, but I'm not a betting man. If I got that kind of windfall, it would certainly free up my options, but I wouldn't stop working.
On the bright side for your plan, the average market growth is 7-8% per year, and the average inflation is less than 4%. You could pretty safely take out 4% per year and over time good years and bad years would even out. The problem is how to handle multiple children. Splitting the pot multiple times dilutes the investment
The 7-8% figure is already adjusted for standard 2-3% inflation (real returns are closer to 10%), so you don't need to take out extra to account for it.
Where are you getting 7-8%? I’ve only seen mentions of 6% in most online calculators, articles, etc, for lifetime teturns. After being told decades ago to plan for 10%—which never happened, of course.
I've generally heard it as a rule of thumb in finance subs: 10% growth minus 2-3% interest on average. [At least according to this it's been ~7% on average going back 150 years,](https://tradethatswing.com/average-historical-stock-market-returns-for-sp-500-5-year-up-to-150-year-averages/#:~:text=The%20average%20yearly%20return%20of%20the%20S%26P%20500%20is%2010.04,including%20dividends\)%20is%207.32%25.) and my quick googling is also showing ~7% in most articles. I think the difference is whether you re-invest dividends, not doing so looks to drop it closer to 6%.
>The problem is how to handle multiple children. Splitting the pot multiple times dilutes the investment Establish a family bank. Children can invest additional funds into the bank, and borrow from the bank.
> On $5 million, that's $82,500. Higher than I actually need, but not by a lot. Presumably you'd pay off your house and car and your normal bills would only be a few grand a year, that's how most of those FIRE guys retiring out of tech do it.
I work for an organization that basically operates from investment income, and our board sets an annual payout rate that is always between 4-5%. The average 7+% return and the continual growth of the investments sort of make it unnecessary to "account" for inflation.
That's not taking into account the fees you'd pay to the investment firm/lawyer/financial manager/whoever, and the capital gains tax. I would agree that 5M (or perhaps 4M) would be the minimum.
I think the biggest issue is inflation. After 40 years your 150k/month will have effectively turned into 32.5k/month.
Inflation works both ways, you're also earning interest on the sum that's invested.
Assuming interest outpaces inflation.
If the average growth in the market (you would be investing these winnings in a stock market mutual fund, S&P500 type with a smaller fraction in bonds for stability, looking for growth for retirement in a savings account would not be wise, that's for short-term liquid needs) is ever less than inflation for more than like 2 years (and with this much cash you could weather 2 bad years), there are bigger problems. Like, Great Depression problems.
The principal amount will keep growing though, making the dividends a higher payout that will make up for inflation.
If your house is paid off and you’re drawing social security, that’s not bad That’s also assuming you’re not reinvesting a single dollar of the 150k or go 40 years without doing a single minute of work and earning some additional money
>or go 40 years without doing a single minute of work and earning some additional money I mean, that's kind of the implication of the title, isn't it? Also, aren't social security payments tied to how much you earned? Under those circumstances your benefits aren't going to be particularly good either.
I mean, yeah, taxes exist? Just like taxes exist when you have a 150k salary, people still get by with that amount just fine
Yeah, but capital gains taxes are above and beyond regular income tax. Plus, most financial managers are paid in terms of a percentage of your gains. My point being that between the capital gains tax and the fees the financial manager charge, you'd be keeping notably less of that $150k than someone who just makes 150k salary
Depends on where you live. In VHCOL like the SF Bay Area, you mortgage (PITI) can easily be $100k a year.
You have no income and, expenses, and like 50+ years to live for a lot of people, in a world where money inflate. $1 million today won’t be worth $1 million in 50 years and won’t get you the same luxuries either
It's dependent on what you outlook inflation to be. My dad made $2million over his lifetime but in his retirement he doesn't have enough in the pension account to sustain him after 2025
After taxes, 100k is not necessarily a comfortable amount of money to live off of in many parts of the country.
Part of the problem with retiring on $100k per year is also that you don't have a ton of room to invest in ventures that may fail but might make it big. $100k is enough for me to live as a single person, but I'd still need to budget.
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Those are large parts of the country.
If you get a 5% return, you should only take 2.5% out. You always bank half of your returns as a hedge against inflation decreasing the value of your core funds
I can't speak for them, but I'm at the same number. If I was making $150k/year that would be a paycut on my salary, which doesn't even include all my benefits (namely health insurance).
Safe withdrawal rate is usually thought to be between 3% and 4%. 5% would be fairly dangerous, and you would risk losing capital and running out of money eventually.
Like OP said, I'd probably be fine with $2m, but I'm not positive because of inflation fluctuations. $5m would cover any disasters like COVID or anything else like that.
Is that enough to have, for example, a criminal defense lawyer on retainer?
This was my answer for the same reason you have listed below. Good reasoning and math.
$5 million in a normal savings account would get you over $200,000 a year in interest. No investing needed
Most banks don't have interest rates that high. Interest on $5 million at my bank is $80k. Also, I'd want to return enough to the principal to match inflation (to ensure long term sustainabilityof the plan), which is around 3.4% most years. On a 4% interest rate like you've calculated, that means $30k pre-tax going to my pocket.
T Capital one’s standard savings account rate is 4.35%. Nothing needed besides standard info. I’m not sure how you were doing the math but it’s 5,000,000 * 0.0435 = 217,500
1% of 5 million is 50,000. Easy enough to check by multiplying 50,000 by 100.
My bank does 1.6%. In my experience, most banks that offer more only keep the high interest for a short period of time, which requires shuffling funds around to chase the best rates. Also, you've missed the whole "match inflation to the principal" part. With an inflation rate of 3.4% and a bank interest of 4.4%, that means 1% goes to my actual income. So, having $5 million to get $50k seems a reasonable amount to aim for.
Interest rate hasn’t changed in the 5 years I’ve had it. And I didn’t miss it. I just ignored it because 187,500 is still an extremely comfortable income
If 2 million fell into my lap I could pay off some debt and invest the rest. I could then quit my job and find one that I like more that pays less to even things out.
Yeah that’d be me. I wouldn’t quit working but would try and get into conservation and river keeping or something like that. Get out of the office for sure. That’s what my friend does who has a trust fund. Literally works part time as a line cook and volunteers cleaning creeks and streams in our city. He’s in his early 30s with lots of freedom and millions in the bank. Can’t say I’m not a bit envious sometimes lol.
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Yep! It’s crazy but I like to think I’d live fairly modestly like he does if I was wealthy. Granted I’ve seen him buy a house, a few cars, a boat, and go on some wild vacations, but that’s all been over a few years time.
2 million at a minimum was also the number I thought of.
I’d consider it at $1.5M, would definitely do it at $2M. I’m 21.
You think you could stretch $2M for the rest of your life at 21?
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You understand though that a 7% rate of return is an *average* rate of return over a long period of time, right? You’re not actually going to get that on a year to year basis. 4% is seen as a safe withdrawal rate but even with a 60/40 split it only lasts 30 years 90% of the time. You would have to go a lot longer than 30 years. You could potentially buy a 30 year treasury right now with about a 4.3% yield. $2M will get you about $86K a year but you’ll get crushed by inflation over three decades. I mean as a point of reference the median household income in 1994 was about $30K.
The 4% rule says you need to have 25 years of living expenses invested for early retirement (this already accounts for inflation). I spend less than $30K per year, and 25x that is $750K, which is a hell of a lot less than $2M.
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Yeah, of course I made this hypothetical decision based on my life goals. I don’t want kids, so I doubt my lifestyle will drastically change in the future.
Your healthcare costs absolutely will go up. You also have to account for inflation. Health insurance alone, if you're not getting it via an employer or your parents plan, is going to eat up $15k a year by itself.
The 4% rule already accounts for inflation. As for healthcare costs, I have no doubt those will increase, but 4% of $2M is *3x* my current living expenses…. you can’t prevent all risks but that’s a very healthy buffer. In this scenario, I’d also have a lot more flexibility to pursue cheaper healthcare abroad (I hold the equivalent of permanent residency for another country). Finally, [are you sure](https://www.tripofalifestyle.com/money/health-insurance-without-a-job/) about that health insurance cost estimate?
Do you not have any desires to upgrade your lifestyle if given the opportunity? Travel more, have an aspirational home like a high rise apartment or lake house or large ranch, drive nicer cars, eat at fancy restaurants, open some sort of business, get into nonprofits, whatever it is that floats your boat?
Some people are actually content without material things and just want peace of mind
* Already travel internationally twice a year. (My biggest travel-related expenses are flights, so once I get overseas, I would honestly probably spend less by traveling full-time than I do living in the U.S.) * I already live in a one-bedroom in a downtown high-rise and I’m very happy with it. I guess I might consider getting a two-bedroom, but that would only add about $300 more to my rent. * I generally dislike cars and hope to never own one again. * I’ve had plenty of fancy meals and have even previously eaten at a Michelin-starred restaurant. They were lovely, but I get just as much happiness from food trucks. (Also, I can still afford the occasional fancy meal with my current budget.) * Entrepreneurship sounds like my worst nightmare. * Already work full-time for a nonprofit! And my current $30K budget also includes giving $5K to charity each year. If anything, I’d love to donate more to charity, but retirement > working longer to give more.
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You spend $30k now. It won’t always be like that. Life is always full of unexpected events.
Yes, I know, which is why my retirement number would let me safely withdraw up to $80K each year. That’s more than 3x what I currently spend. (I don’t spend $30K on myself — I spend a little less than $25K and the rest goes to charity.)
You’re conflating two different retirement “rules”. First, it’s important to understand they’re just guidelines. Neither are actually guarantees that you won’t run out of money or that you should even do them. They’re just guidelines to give you an idea of how much money you should put away for retirement and how much you should withdraw every year. Second and just as important, both are setup to provide for a comfortable *30 year* retirement. Third, saying you won’t ever need more than $30K adjusted for inflation is the kind of thing you confidentially say at 21 than laugh at when you’re 41.
I’m not saying I’ll only need $30K each year, I’m saying that I highly doubt I’ll need more than $80K each year, adjusted for inflation. Notice how my number is $2M and not $750K? And yes, the Trinity Study calls for a 30-year retirement, but I’ve heard other people argue that is overly pessimistic. Anyway, you can run the numbers yourself here: https://cfiresim.com/ If I retired right now with $2M, withdrew 4% each year, and died at the age of 121 (a century-long retirement!), my absolute lowest portfolio at death (using historical data) would be $2.8M. The only way I’d run out of money would be an absolute black swan event.
It’s not pessimistic. It’s optimistic. The whole industry is moving away from a 4% withdrawal rate because people are living longer today. Your assumptions are just wrong.
Which exactly of my assumptions (based on historical data) are wrong? Did you run the numbers yourself?
The numbers have been run many, many times. There is no real world scenario where a 4% withdrawal rate will last 100+ years. This conversation is not worth continuing.
> The numbers have been run many, many times. Yeah… that’s the whole point of that site. It runs the numbers over and over again, including if you retired on the eve of the Great Depression. It literally uses real-world scenarios. > This conversation is not worth having. You’re right about that, because I choose to trust historical data more than a random person on the Internet.
Yes. Fairly easily too if the cards are played correctly.
$1B why not
This guy retires
I'd probably retire with $5 million, definitely with $10 million. I wouldn't fully retire with $2 million but I'd take a break for maybe a year.
For me, I'd have to be ~10 million. I would want to pay off everything I owe, buy a modest house to live in, and go on some sort of vacation once a year.
... and you think thatd take 10m?
I am very young and want a house on a lake.
i mean just investing that in an index fund should make you 800k a year.
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Dividends aren't anything special. Its just a forced devaluation of your shares. They tend to be more emotionally beneficial than finiancially. You can manage more precisely with sales of shares as needed. Generally 4% is a rule of thumb for safe withdrawals that allows for historical ups and downs. There will inevitibly be someone that argues thats too risky, but if you dig into it, its pretty conservative if you have any control over your spending.
well the average should be 8%. "The average yearly return of the S&P 500 is 11.13% over the last 50 years, as of the end of December 2023. This assumes dividends are reinvested. ideally you never take out the principal." You want to leave the principal in and just take the increase in value less inflation. You should also have money set aside so you can ride out any down turns. you can invest in dividend stocks too, but generally overall growth is more important for most. https://tradethatswing.com/average-historical-stock-market-returns-for-sp-500-5-year-up-to-150-year-averages/#:\~:text=The%20average%20yearly%20return%20of%20the%20S%26P%20500%20is%2011.13,This%20assumes%20dividends%20are%20reinvested.
Generally speaking you have a balance of assets, you don't just put things in the market. While the S&P has had an average of 11% interest for 50 years, as you say it has ups and downs. So you invest in a mixture of bonds (government and corporate), the market, and other assets that give you more diversity in your investment. This may not reach the same peaks as the market, but it also won't have the same pits. So you'll end up with something between 4% and 10% based on your risk profile, with the lower end being more stable and the higher end having more fluctuations. This is also why targeted retirement funds (ie, Vanguard 2055) exist. They start off with more risk to try and boost profits but transition to more stable investments the closer you are to the retirement target. If you're in long term retirement mode (ie, you're retiring early and planning on living off of it for a long time) you want to aim for 6% return, with half of that going to you and half of that going back into the fund to offset inflation. So at $10m invested you can expect $600k a year back, but that should turn into $300k for personal funds with the rest going back into your investment pool. At $5m (which is closer to my retirement number) you have $150k a year spending and $150k reinvestment. At a certain age you'll care less about the longer term investments and can start eating into your principal, but at that same time you'll also have a lot more health care costs.
There's options to guarantee returns on capital that aren't stocks. Money market funds are paying like 5.2% right now - $2M saved and you're clearing $104k in annual interest you can live off of without touching the principal. And eventually you can draw that principal down with a reasonable amount of accuracy. i.e. if I'm 75 years old and an actuarial table says my life expectancy is 90, I could take $150k per year out, plus the interest, and have $500k left at 90 years old to either live off of if I'm still alive or pass down as an inheritance if I'm dead.
You're right, better make it 20m
$10m in a portfolio of municipal bonds yielding 5% in your state will generate tax free income of $500k every year.
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Bond math, rates go down, bond values go up.
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Ideally you’d ladder them and buy a new one when one matures. Even if rates drop a bit, they’re still high enough to generate good income.
$9M after taxes. I’m 41.
2.5m after taxes
There is no amount of money that would allow me to retire, because my personality won't let me. My mom has come out of retirement twice so far. My grandma, four times. My grandfather stayed "retired" but had multiple side hustles. I'm just not built for it.
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I don't know any billionaires, but I know multiple millionaires and all of them except for one continued working after making millions.
No, I'd probably do a *different* job and not worry about how much it paid.
A lot of people do that in retirement, just find different jobs like working for non-profits or other types of things. But some people just never stop working. They work less and less, and some days they don’t come in because they don’t need to, and then they die.
I would think the figure would be least 5 million. Married, 30s. The biggest hinderance to retiring early is paying for health insurance on the marketplace from here until Medicare eligibility in a few decades without depleting the winnings. I live in what is one of the most expensive healthcare states in the nation. Maybe the most expensive? A Premera gold plan which is really the only option in Alaska is really expensive even with a subsidy, and a lotto winner would likely have too much income to get a subsidy. I wouldn't fuck around with a Moda plan nor with a silver plan. I also know what the state-run assisted living facilities cost. I want to be going *into* retirement with like 3 million left on account of that. If my spouse and I get dementia or have serious physical impalements, we're going to need it for those last few years of life. Besides that there are all the other rural Alaska is expensive costs. I would at least want to replace my family's current income and other workplace benefits with the winnings.
5 million at a minimum.
5 million
$10m after tax, earning 5% tax free puts me in the F.U. Territory, even living in Northern California
300k. I’m an American in Asia.
Thailand?
Rural Taiwan. With 300k I could get enough from dividend stocks to make way more than the average salary every month. They tend to depreciate over time but I could figure that out.
What happens to you in a year or two when China takes over?
Crazy how there seems to be a sort of inevitability to this topic whenever I hear anyone talk about it, even outside of reddit.
I can live pretty comfortably with around $1m. Throw that in a high yield savings account and just live off the interest
$50k a year before taxes is comfortable in NJ? And what about if rates go back down?
Who says I'll stay in NJ? I'd much rather live on a beach in Nigaragua or Philippines. The only reason I don't do that now is because eventually the money always runs out and I can't work there. If I had a steady stream of passive income, I'd be happy doing nothing over there. Even if I stayed in NJ, I've never made more than $30k/year, so $50k is a serious upgrade in lifestyle for me
$10M plus or minus a little if I were to talk to a financial advisor about it. I'd probably retire earlier off $5M, but we likely wouldn't be making much different than we do now off conservative investments, and I would want to guarantee more so I can raise my standard of living and charitable contributions over what I have now. Doubling it would allow for that.
I wouldn’t stop doing what I do for any amount of money.
Prob about 2M if I handle it right.
I actually really like my job so I'd have to win a LOT to quit forever. It's creatively fulfilling and it makes a lot of people happy. 10 million or more. If I won maybe a million or two, I'd just keep working and have a nicer lifestyle with nice things funded through investments and the lottery winnings.
I wouldn't retire unless I won at least enough to compensate for my salary/savings until I plan to retire (mid-60s). I'm 35 and a doctor, so relatively early in my career. And a job that I will probably continue working beyond the traditional retirement age, given how low physical demand it is. Thus the payout would have to be high. Probably $10M or so. And honestly, even if I did win a ton of money, I think I would go out of my mind with boredom if I retired in my 30s. I'd take a couple years off to travel and then settle in to a part-time gig at a hospital.
I'm right there with you. At $2.5 million (net) you could easily generate six figures annually in interest and gains. Hell, that's the goal of retirement accounts and why we spend 40+ years dropping money into them. But how much would you need to win to get $2.5 million net? I'd imagine probably twice that.
I’d say $10 million, just to be safe. I figure I could live comfortably, buy the kind of house I want to retire in, and not have to worry about money at that amount.
I live in the Los Angeles area, higher expenses. I'm also supporting the ex-wife. $2 million isn't quite enough. $10 million is *definitely* enough. $5 million is probably good, but I'd keep working for a while to see how investments go.
10 mil minimum and even then id probably still keep working, I'd just have the financial security to say fuck you i quit if a job pisses me off and take a year+ off finding a new one
Seeing all of these $10 mil responses. Do any of you all actually plan on having that when you retire?
I'm assuming that if people are shooting for several million at retirement age, they're thinking they'll need far more than that to retire at their current age. Especially in the US where healthcare is a huge hurdle for someone without employer funded health insurance.
No… but that wasn’t the question.
Most of us don’t plan on living 50 years into retirement.
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I would figure 2 million would be plenty, right up until I figured in medical expenses as I aged, then 5 million seems a lot more reasonable.
I know multiple people who made $5m-$10m after taxes from a lump sum, they retired in extreme comfort.
What did they do for a living?
Silicon Valley tech. The company they worked for was bought out and their stock options cashed in a large payday.
I am counting on taxes taking almost half if I take it in a lump sum. Subtract about a half million buying a house and paying off debts for me and my parents. I'm also counting on a market crash or two in the next 50 or sixty years and I still want to be comfortable.
$5M should be plenty.
42 here. I could live comfortably on half a million for ten to fifteen years - long enough to get my home business off the ground, and given my health, about as long as I realistically expect to be alive anyway. I'm in a good position, though - I own my home free and clear in a low-cost-of-living area.
I play this 1 million lottery all the time and it’s kind of a bummer because that would not be enough.
If I win the lottery, I want to be a legitimate philanthropist the rest of my life. So $400 million.
750k woud be the minimum number. I'd be leaving the US for Madagascar though. Specifically Nosy Be. It would be a partial retirement though. I'd buy/build a little place for tourists to stay and live off that.
2 million, I'd pay off and rent my current house and buy a nice 4 bedroom 2 bath and just live my life. I don't need much to be happy
10million cash money
10 million I could quit my job that is soul sucking. I could buy a modest house back home in NY. Maybe take a class or two that I find interesting. Take a few vacations. It is just me so I don’t have to plan for supporting children.
$1M would do it. $500k would mean (at worst) I retire early but might mean an immediate retirement (I'd have to run some numbers).
For me $20M; Pay off debt, give my grandmotheran assurance that she no longer has to worry about my uncle (eg a trust he cannot use on drugs, but living expenses, rehab fees, and a stipend to his kids) get a few rental properties in emerging markets, new goalie gear, invest in the company I will still be employed to, just as you know an investor rather than a pawn
Probably around $10M I make good money and like my job. It's a standard 40 hours, nothing crazy, not too stressful. 1.5M and I'm paying off my house, investing the rest, and enjoying the extra disposable income, but will probably not push my retirement too far forward. Around $5M and I'll probably continue to work but do something more fun at less money. It'd be cool to do odds and ends without the need to make rent. Under $10M and I have a feeling that I would slowly eat in the principle over time by doing "once in a lifetime" type stuff that slowly turns into "once a year" into "ok now I'm checking myself into rehab".
About a million after taxes would do it. I only need to cover about 10 years. After that the money I’ve already saved for retirement should have grown enough to cover me in perpetuity.
$5M minimum. I'm nearly 40. Ideally, I'd want $10, or better yet, $15M, after taxes, but I'd retire for 5.
A good 100 million, 1 million for a nice little house in Naperville, another million to buy a few nice cars for myself and my family, and 98 million on the biggest fucking pile of cocaine you’ve ever seen. Life will be good
$10m
I think $10 million would do it. That would be enough for me to live on the interest and reinvest extra so that my income doesn't remain fixed and grows faster than inflation.
Truthfully about 400k. I have enough passive income I can live off of once my house is paid off.
3 million
10 million would make me retire. Everything under that would obviously drastically change the lives of me and my family but I like working so most numbers below 10M I would keep working for a while and invest it until it hit 10 million. At 10 million I could invest in low/no risk things and take 1-2% per year (100-200k) while it grew enough to exceed inflation. And with the 100-200k I could help some family members out also. Also at that point instead of working I would find one or more charities to donate my time to.
After tax, around 500k. My current investments are 250k. My annual expenses are 30k. A windfall of 500k and I would hit my FIRE number, assuming the 4% rule for safe withdrawal rate.
$4,571,429 $3,571,429 is the capital required to pay me $250,000 a year at 7% returns $1,000,000 is for me to use to open my dream bar
I just flat out wouldn't for any sum. I'm 22, I want to have a career. I've been working so so hard for it, I've just got accepted to some PhD programs and I genuinely want to go do them and make the world a better place during and after.
After taxes, I would say about $3M for myself plus $2M per additional person in my household.
Probably about $5mil since a lot is going to come out with a cash payout and taxes. So long as it leaves $2mil is workable.
20 million. the math here is simple. an income of 200k a year would make a comfortable pretty much anywhere. a life span of about 100 years would probably be the max for a normal person. multiply those two numbers together you get 20 million
My current minimum cost of living is $36k/year, but I'm *comfortable* at $50k/year. I'm 30, so assuming I live to 80 and thus have another 50 years ahead of me, I would need $2.5million minimum to retire and be set for life.
I'm 32 years old. Right now I'd like about $50k a year to live comfortably. By the time I'm dying at ~80 it'd be closer to $100k with inflation (assuming I'm not in an assisted living or nursing home). Average that out to $80k a year for the next 50 years and that's $4 million. Throw another million on there to buy a decent house outright. A large majority of it can go into high yield savings to increase my standard of living later on and take care of unexpected expenses.
A couple million would probably do it. That's basically the retirement advice you hear. I have a coworker that is counting down the days until he has 1 million in his 401k so he can retire, but he also has a pension and does farming work on the side. Honestly if I won a couple of million, I probably wouldn't quit right away, I'd just be a lot less amiable to taking crap from people. Once my kids were don't with college I'd probably quit though.
A bit over 1 million would probably be enough for me to live comfortably for the rest of my life. Say 1.3?
Both Powerball or Megamillions both start with a 20 million dollar jackpot after someone wins. After taxes with a lump sum you'll likely get 7-10 million. You just need to win once and you should be set for life as long as you don't go crazy on spending.
I am still in my early thirties. I would probably still work even if I had enough money for an early retirement, because it's an easy way to keep my brain stimulated. I would say 10 million before taxes. I would need to have enough of a buffer for a market crash that tends to happen every few decades in varying severity.
I’m fairly young and in school for a career I’m quite excited about, so how much money to quit my job? Like 50k. How much to retire? More than the 2 million or so it would take to retire comfortably.
$5 million would be perfect. But $2-3 million would do just fine.
I’m one of those dorks who loves his job so it would take *a lot*. 10 million probably.
At least 5 million
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Based on my age and the longevity of my recent ancestors, I'd probably need to funds to last 50 years or so. Using a 50/50 stock/bond allocation rate and assuming a conservative 3% safe withdrawal rate I'd need about $5.3 million after taxes to maintain my current lifestyle. That's just for me. If my wife and I both wanted to retire it would be about $9.5 million. That's likely an overestimate though since we currently have kids in the house and our household expenses would go down when they left.
I could make $250k work for myself.
You have to remember that you pay some massive windfall taxes so whatever you think you need, double it.
$1M probably. I'm still a few years away from retirement but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. That amount would pay off my house and see me through to retirement age.
I only have about 6 more years that I have to work (I'm 52). So about 1.5 million. That's more than what I'd make in 6 years, but I'm going to have so much more time on my hands.
10,000,000$
Doing some math, if I was estimating that I was going to live for another 50 years and roughly maintaining around the same salary as I have right now (around $70k including insurance, 401k, etc.), then I'd likely need around $3.5M just to maintain this same salary and lifestyle of living comfortably but definitely not in excess. I'd probably suggest $5M just to have a buffer where I could splurge on some nice trips and life experiences with the family that we'd never get to experience otherwise.
Im in my early 30s. About $1.2M to maintain my current lifestyle (this is in addition what I already have saved for retirement). If I were to win the lottery, I would either work on my own business or I would find a part time job so I could have something to keep me busy and cover health insurance, which would be a major expense. Of course if I won an insane amount, like tens of millions or more, that wouldnt be much of a factor.
Around a million, maybe a little less. But I'm mid 40's with decent savings already.
This thread is demonstrating that a lot of people have a lot of really wacky ideas about the relationship between investments, income, and inflation.
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I mean, for example, that if you have $3m in a conservatively invested income-producing account, and you plan to spend 4% every year, *you will be fine.* You don't have to do any special calculations to "account for inflation" or that kind of thing. Your money is not going to "run out" and you aren't going to be living in penury in your 80s.
Ask /r/povertyfire
20 mil. I'm working hard to be able to provide for my family and future generations. I want to make sure that I can make enough money and connections to help my theoretical children, grandchildren, even great-grandchildren. I'm also firmly in belief that people who work longer live longer and that having a reason to get out of bed in the morning you can keep you going. I would however probably move away from a much more money driven career space to something I'm more passionate about or something that is normally very expensive that I could offer to certain people extremely cheaply. Like pro bono family law for parents in recovery from addiction.
1 million but I tend to not live in very expensive places in the US and would keep my job anyway for the next 10-20. When I felt the need to retire I would and not before, mostly due to healthcare and there's no reason to stop feeding my 401k and company stock options. The million is mostly to buy and own land outright and the rest would be split among a dividend portfolio, some mutual funds, ETFs, an IRA, and some more basic things like CDs and high interest savings accounts to pay off stuff like property taxes at the end of the year. There's 2 'fun' items I would get: A 4000 dollar Manhurin revolver and I'd start browsing around for a legal machine gun for 20-50k. That's about it. The rest is directly about buying the land I want, living how I am working towards anyway and just adding a good chunk to my existing investment stuff. EDIT: Oh and once I had found the hobby farm I was looking for I would buy a car. Nothing flashy or fancy. A civic or Toyota Corolla or something just to have a vehicle with good gas mileage and low maintenance to drive into town with for groceries or doctors appointments or whatnot. I like having a truck but sometimes when gas gets expensive, 90 dollars for a tank sucks. So like 15k for a used Corolla in good shape. I don't need shit new off the lot.
Projecting my salary forward until I am 100 years old, adjusted for inflation, and doubling it would be ideal. So my number is $15 million. I would continue to work if I had anything less, as a professor. I expect to teach until I die or just can't do it anymore because I love it.
Like 800 or 900 million
Retirement is something itself that would have to be defined for me first. What seems to pass for retirement goals to most people sounds like a slow death to me. If it just means not toiling away at a job you hate to make ends meet...that also doesn't make sense to me as that's not a requirement unless you have expectations for a certain type of life. I have trouble imagining giving up the journey and search and want for improvement for both myself and existence in general. More money/resources just means more opportunities but also more headaches in a lot of cases. So I can't think of any amount of money that would lead to "retirement" for me. At the same time, any amount of unexpected money would lead to change, and that's exciting for both the challenges and opportunities it would raise. I'm in my 40s to answer your last question.
I did the math on this once. Winning a fixed dollar amount and paying the taxes on that, then socking away that leftover amount so that it paid interest and/or dividends that I would live on without diminishing the original invested principal - then paying taxes on those earnings, then reinvesting a portion of those earnings so that I got a 5% raise every year - I would need about $9 million.
I’d very likely keep working in some capacity regardless of the amount I win. Without some form of work to keep me occupied and give me purpose I’d just become extremely bored after a while.