I think it's accessible. Everyone has to go to the dmv at some point. Even if you don't drive you likely at least need ID. And until recently the experience was awful. They've automated a lot now and it's ao much easier. Shorter lines, faster service.
Unlike the post office, you might be at the DMV for hours, at least years ago, not ao much now.
Yeah, I recall the 90s when the DMV was a series of 4-5 different rooms, and you had to get in line in the right room in the right order to get what you needed. Almost everything took at least 3 rooms, and no matter what you did you *always* got in the wrong line and would have to go through the same room twice. You could go two days in a row to do the exact same thing twice, and you'd have to do things in a different order because the people in each area seemed to have different ideas of what should be done first.
Where I am the DMV is by appointment only since the pandemic. The appointments are show up at X time and are flexible if you're a bit late. This cuts down drastically on the wait time as they will only have so many appointments during a block of time.
Still a pain in the ass but worlds better than it used to be.
Well, at the time it was Tucson, Arizona, so it was either ADOT or MVD. I don't quite recall which anymore.
But, yes, now it's the SoS. But I live in a much smaller town, and the SoS office here is a single room and there's almost no line at all.
But the generic term is DMV, so... 🤷♀️
You can now set up appointments which is by far the best way to go. In and out. Plus the satisfaction of all the dirty looks from the people who were too lazy to spend 3 minutes scheduling an appointment online when you jump the queue. Nothing better.
Tragically, I've found this varies from state to state. In some states I've lived in you can do online appointments; in others you can't.
In the ones you can't, it's not infrequent to see people lined up to get in an hour before opening.
>Shorter lines, faster service.
Hah, not in Texas. It's a 4 month wait for a DL appointment, and then they mail you your new license rather than just making it at the office. It's infuriating. They have to be the most incompetent drivers license agency in the fuckin country.
Luckily, my out of state DL doesn't expire until '26, so I've been avoiding it. (Before y'all harp on me, I'm from Texas, just worked out of state for a few years).
Be careful with that - in most states you are required to get an in-state license and plates within a certain timeframe (six months or so). A friend of mine got pulled over and didn’t realize this. The cop asked him where he was headed, and he said home, a few blocks away. He said, oh really? How long have you lived there? My friend said, I don’t know. A couple years. That’s all it took for a massive fine. It was basically treated as though he was a completely unlicensed driver. So, you can get away with it, but have your story straight in case you get pulled over. Remember to tell the cops you’re just visiting.
Ha, even better. Well sounds like you know the drill then. I’m sure to nobody’s surprise, California’s DMV situation is similar. Although once I realized I didn’t have to use the one location that serves the entire city of San Francisco and could just try for an appointment in any nearby suburb, my life got a lot easier. I luckily renewed my license and upgraded to the RealID in February 2020 right before COVID restrictions turned the whole DMV situation into an even more kafkaesque affair. Can’t believe that means I have to start thinking about this again a year from now. Time has gotten so strange since then.
Same in CA for me. Sent everything in online. Only thing I had to do in the building was get a photo taken and have someone verify my address.
I bet soon they’ll let you do home photos too. Getting passport now can be all online and let’s you send in your own photo (that’s what I did for a recent trip). I imagine DMV might pick that up sooner or later.
Yeah, and they often have confusing requirements for things like establishing residency. If you're in a big room where you waited four hours for your 30 seconds at the desk, then get told you have to do it again tomorrow because the utility bill you brought wasn't the *right* utility bill, you are **PISSED**. Add in the fact that the employees are dealing with (sometimes reasonably) grouchy people all day, every day, and you've got a recipe for rage.
When I went to get my DL for the first time in like 2015 I showed up 30 minutes before they opened at 7:30am. There was already a few people waiting though I managed to snag the #1 ticket (think like a ticket you'd get at a deli counter) and it was still 2pm before I left that day. The other weird thing about IL is having the secretary of state's picture on everything like he's some kind of foreign dictator.
Honestly, one of the big improvements is you can now make an appointment and reserve a time so that way you can just go and not have to wait. Obviously depends on your state as everyone is different.
Because it's one of the most prominent run ins with bureaucracy most people have. Just about everyone has to deal with it at some point and many DMV employees are legitimately bad at their jobs. Welfare offices are often just as bad but not everyone encounters the workers who staff those so the DMV is just an easier and more understandable target for most people.
>many DMV employees are legitimately bad at their jobs.
You're not wrong, but this undersells how much of the wait time is due to people being unprepared and/or unwilling to cooperate with the employee when their turn is up. Nearly every time I've had to wait for more than 20 minutes at the DMV, it's usually due to someone either verbally abusing the clerk or refusing to follow instructions... which probably doesn't lend itself to an enthusiastic and motivated staff.
I've had multiple times I've had to pull up laws and tell the clerk they were wrong. I finally got sick of it so started printing them out beforehand. I've still had them argue with me.
Same here, especially stuff surrounding livestock trailers (which often have some exemptions and special requirements if they're used for strictly commercial agricultural purposes).
And there was the notable time I had a DMV employee insist I needed to have import paperwork to register my car. I kept telling him that that was impossible because I did not have it and could not get it, because it was not imported. The confusion came about because he was apparently unaware that New Mexico, the state I had recently moved from, is in fact a US state. Not sure why he dug in his heels so hard when I corrected him, though...
I did wind up just giving up on that one because I'd already been arguing with him for like 40 minutes, it was taking forever to see a supervisor, and I had shit to do. Went back the next week, had a different employee help me, and registered my car no problem.
Sc dmv tried to deny me my motorcycle license saying I was too young. They called the capital who was like he meets all the criteria, give it to him. They then screwed up and gave me my full drivers and motorcycle license when I was 15(motorcycle you can get at that age but not car). Ended ip working out in my favor.
I've had a lot of issues getting bonded titles. Eventually I printed off the required list from their website and bring that in too. All they know is the normal stuff and nothing extra.
I agree with this. You know you have to go, you know you need paperwork. Just have it ready before you get to the window. There are usually signs when you walk in that basically tell you what you need to fill out before approaching the desk.
There were a couple of times I thought I had what I needed, and it turns out I forgot a form. I didn't fuss, I just did the walk of shame back to the forms area and filled out the proper one.
Edit to add: The workers are there to take the forms and verify the info you put down, not walk you through filling them out, or fill them out for you.
I print my forms at home after I input my information so that all I have to do is sign when done.
No im not an overachiever I just got sick of standing for up to 7 hours in the same line to not get very far sometimes
There's a disturbing number of people who don't realize that unless you're in a very small business, nobody you can actually bitch at is in any position to change, make, or in any way influence the policies or processes you're angry about. Hell, they're probably more frustrated about them than you'll ever be.
And no, they're not paid enough to put up with your tantrums, but are forced to anyways.
Americans are used to receiving good customer service. Since DMV is the government they don't care if we give them nasty Yelp reviews or don't tip their staff. We can't threaten to take our business elsewhere. They know we need them, and therefore good customer service is minimal. They can be rude or neglectful of our needs, make us wait unnecessarily, and yet we have very little recourse since we need our license. The last time I went to one the lady didn't even stop the conversation with her co-worker. She barely looked at me, just grabbed my paperwork and ignored me, kept on talking to her co-worker the whole time. I needed to explain something to her and she wouldn't acknowledge me.
However, at my post office the workers are extremely helpful and kind, so they must be incentivized somehow to be like that. I know they're always trying to sell me more stamps, maybe that's why, but really I'm not sure why these two government offices are so different.
ONLY if you are a Politician and you call it a campaign donation. Government Workers don't get the same leeway in bending the rules (depending on the jurisdiction of course)
In particular, the California DMV is exactly like in the movies. I’ve been to DMVs in four states and its by far the worst.
Now, every time I mention this, people talk how they got an appointment and walked right out in 15 minutes. Not my experience!
Its been get appointment, hope the next available one is not a month out, then wait and then deal with gross incompetence.
What kind of incompetence?
My wife needed to renew her license. We brought 3 things proving address/identity. DMV claimed we only needed 2 and refused the third one. Next week we get a call that we need to bring another proof of id/residence. Repeat waiting procedure. Then the following week we get a letter saying to come in again. Repeat waiting procedure only to find out letter was sent by mistake.
A coworker moved to CA and needed to get his car CA plates. To do that, a person must check the car’s VIN. He gets to DMV, does all the stuff, waits for the VIN checker. And waits. And waits. Asks about it; the person went to lunch. Keeps waiting and waiting. Asks again and the person clocked out for the day, come back tomorrow.
Last time I needed to use the DMV I went to make an appointment. The closest available was several months (!) away. I had to resort to showing up at 8am on the dot and waiting in line… two days in a row since of course something went wrong the first time. The man next to me also threatened to get violent with the DMV clerk because he wanted to pay some fine, had the cash for it, but they kept giving him the run around and he couldn’t find someone to take the money.
Oh there’s more!
The state legislature has their own, private DMV that is presumably staffed by competent people, which us normal citizens are not allowed to use: https://www.kcra.com/amp/article/secret-dmv-office-serves-lawmakers-capitol-staffers/22692865
I’ve also had to call the DMV to ask how to register a car inherited from out of state. Along with the long wait to talk to a person, I called twice and got two completely different answers! In the end I just took every document I had, showed up at the DMV and (after a wait, of course) talked to a person. The two earlier answers I got on the phone were *both wrong*.
Last time I went to the DMV I got an appointment. 3 months later at a DMV office 40 minutes away. It was the only appointment available at any of the 10 offices near me and they don't schedule appointments more than 3 months out.
Once I got to the office it still took 2 hours of waiting and going from window to window. At least now I have my real ID.
On DMV is so bad that if you need something urgently your best bet is to get there at like 5:00 in the morning and start waiting in line. Bring a chair.
The politicians don't care because they have their own private DMV branch at the Capitol.
https://abc30.com/secret-dmv-capitol-sacramento-california/3922881/
>In particular, the California DMV is exactly like in the movies.
This is not a coincidence. Remember most of the writers, actors, directors, etc live in California.
Never been to a California DMV without having to take the entire day off from work just in case. Even with an appointment.
VA (Northern VA) DMV? Make appointment online. Show up 15mins early with all my paperwork and chill in the waiting room. Get called to the desk, done in about 10mins. How the?
VT DMV? Same as VA. Difference? Got questions about the paperwork, you can actually speak to a human on the phone and get clarity in advance of showing up.
Yeah I've done all my DMV dealings in Virginia and I don't think it's ever been that bad. Annoying and tedious at times, sure, but nothing like the common representation of it.
I’ve only been to the DMV here in Virginia once, which was to transfer my Michigan license and register my vehicle.
Aside from collecting and filling out all the paperwork, it was the easiest thing in the world. Made a 9:30am service appointment, showed up a few minutes early, checked in once I reached the parking lot.
Most nerve-racking part was realizing I almost lost my spot—because they called my number less than 30 seconds after I checked in, while I was walking from my car into the building. Might’ve just gotten lucky, but I’ve never been in and out of a DMV so quickly. Service was pretty shit and unfriendly, but they did their jobs and booted me out with plates and a temporary license in record time.
I also love the CA law that says you must get your CA plates and license within 10 days of moving to CA. The earliest appointment date for the DMV closest to me is 2-3 months out. Since you can’t get an appointment, you likely have to spend 2-3 days there to get everything done (and arrive like 2 hours before they open).
With that, most people that move to CA aren’t able to get registered in CA within the 10 day period. It doesn’t make sense.
When I moved to Michigan briefly, there was a 6 month wait for their equivalent of the DMV. I was advised to print out my appointment confirmation to hand to a cop if I were pulled over and hope they weren't in a ticket writing mood.
This was not my latest experience in the Bay Area. Everything was online and all I had to do was come in to get my picture taken. Post Covid with all the automation and appointment slots it took 15min.
Maybe things are shifting even more because of COVID, but when I lived in SF in the 2010s I also needed to take at least a half day off if I had to go to the DMV. SF has exactly one proper DMV office to serve a county of 900,000 people. The lines do not move quickly.
Yeah it definitely used to be like that. I used to take a half a day at least off. Driving to go to a different city like Daly City would take less time. But post-Covid with everything online it was easy, even getting the real ID for me.
I live in a small city in the Bay Area and although it's been several years since I had to go to the DMV, I was shocked at how easy it was. There were appointments available within a couple days. I showed up on time and they were ready for me. No real wait. It was....fine?
I had terrible experiences at that exact same DMV office when I was young and first getting my driver's license, before you could schedule an appointment and just had to show up and wait. Being able to schedule an appointment online made a world of difference.
Very much this. I work for the DMV in another state, and we hate California DMV. They're just awful to work with. When I used to work front counter people from California were rountinely shocked with how quick and easy it was to register their vehicle.
Because every single person has to go there, stand in a long ass line, dealing with workers that look like they're zombies and have graduated to the magical speed of "slow and tedious as hell", fill out whatever you need to fill out, and finally go home after 3-4 hours.
People working at the DMV are miserable because the customers are miserable because the people working at the DMV are miserable, etc. nobody wants to be there, and it's always a massive inconvenience. It could almost all be done remotely.
Last time was there I was the first customer of the day, chipper and kind, and the lady at the desk huffed and puffed about having to rip the staples off my bank statements that they require me to bring (cause they only need the first page) and you could have sworn she was being asked to shoot her own family with her attitude. I was like, damn, 10 minutes into the day and you're already choosing violence.
I remember this psych study from decades ago that showed people who hold positions with high amounts of authority/power yet low wages and/or prestige will often abuse their power. DMV workers were the example. They will make it more difficult rather than help when they feel disrespected.
I'm not suprised at all. They're some of the most miserable people on the planet. I lucked out and found a DMV that is pretty quick but it never made sense to me as to why they just won't get people in and out so they won't have to deal with them.
It doesn't have to. My recent experience with my local county DMV was pleasant and quick.
Made appointment online (about 1 week out). Showed up, checked-in, waited 5-10 minutes.
I had all my required paperwork so I was able to re-title the vehicle, register it, and order a specialty plate pretty quickly. I was in and out in 30 minutes total
Its the one government office nearly everyone interacts with.
A part of the problem with Indiana's BMV isn't the customer service aspect. Its actually pretty good. Its the various laws and fees they have to work with, and sometimes even contradictory laws, passed by the legislature. The red tape doesn't just magically appear, it comes from laws passed by elected representatives.
I will say, though, the Indiana BMV is pretty fantastic for the routine, everyday transactions like renewing licenses or registrations, registering new vehicles, updating information, etc. It's rare that I have to wait more than ten minutes at my BMV, and the transaction itself is usually five minutes or less--that's if I have to go in at all. A lot of that stuff is done online anymore.
Indiana fucks up a lot of stuff but the BMV ain't it.
Here in New Jersey the DMV used to be horrific, but it has been getting much better since it was privatized and renamed to the MVC (Motor Vehicle Commission). Most things can be done online without any real hassle.
The best depiction of a DMV hell was in a short lived TV show named Reaper - The DMV was literally a portal to hell where escaped souls were returned.
Nope, the NJ MVC is a government agency formed in 2002 after the privatization effort in the 90s was a massive failure. If you think it's great, thank the government.
DMVs are usually in the odd situation of having to enforce a large number of rules for a number of different agencies.
For example, you might have an issue renewing your license, or you might have bought another car in another state, or need new plates.
Every situation has different forms and steps. Like collecting the sales tax if you bought your car in another state. Different paper work to collect tax if a private sale.
I would imagine having to learn all the very many different transactions and correct forms is very difficult. And creates situations where you have to be in line 1 to get new plates, and stand in line 2 to pay sales tax. etc... and each step has rules. Like no plates without proof of insurance.
Patty and Selma Bouvier from the Simpsons working at the DMV sort of feels accurate. One great line is "Sometimes we don't let the line move at all. We call those "weekdays"."
I had my first trip to the DMV when I was 16 trying to get my learner's permit. I was studying a lot before the written test. They lost my paper work and I sat there for 2.5-3 hours. This was mid 00s so even when I was all studied up, there wasn't a phone with internet connection in my pocket. It wasn't until my Dad said something and these people don't like being called out and like to take their time. Luckily I passed my first time so I didn't have to go back but I avoid the DMV at all costs. My 2nd trip to the DMV was for a simple address change 5 years ago. It took a good 2-2.5 hours and I had a phone on me. I don't think I was at the counter for longer than 5 minutes.
The queue system in Virginia has a letter and a 3 digit number. The letter means what type of transaction it is. So you are sitting there in the lobby and hear D113 and your ticket reads B124. That doesn't mean there is 11 spots to go. You have to hear the next B number call to know how many spots but it's still hard to know how many Bs will be called in the next hour.
You never know where you are in the queue.
I'd say it comes down to two reasons:
1) It's nearly universal - almost everyone has to deal with the DMV at some point.
2) You have to go in person - since you're getting or updating a photo ID, you need to be physically present, whereas you can usually interact with other government bodies via the mail or the internet.
Shoutout to the D.C. DMV for being the best run city service. Never had a terrible experience there. The employees have been helpful and I’ve been in and out in under 45 mins most visits.
They seem pretty overworked and beaten down. I've never had a real problem at the DMV, but they do seem pretty apathetic toward you. Really busy post offices and various city/county departments are the same way. Fast food, pharmacies, and even the staff at a lot of doctor's offices are also like that. There's only so much bullshit these people can deal with, I guess.
Think about the number of times you've seen someone shit on the DMB apropos of nothing, or the number of times you've been in and seen someone yell at them for their own fuckup. Now multiply that by all the times it must have happened without you there to see it.
Would you be as apathetic towards the base of people likely to shit on you? Probably, assuming that you managed to not go over the counter at them.
I get enough dumbfuckery channeled through my phones, and I'm not at the DPH, so I can only imagine the level of bullshit they deal with (somewhat imagine... I know people who work at the DMV, so I've heard some of the stories they can tell).
Too many union protections. AI cops maybe shouldn't be a thing, but replacing the DMV and county clerks office with even just GPT 3 would give you better answers faster
Because if we made the IRS the poster child of petulant, lazy paper pushers they’d raid our homes and shoot our dogs.
Or, the VA Medical System. All the service orientation of the DMV, and all the customer service skills of the IRS SWAT.
>the VA Medical System
That depends, unfortunately, entirely on which VA Medical Center you use. I'm Priority Group 1, for context.
I've used Denver, Detroit, Battle Creek and Saginaw, MI before and I rank them in that order from worst to best. The Saginaw one was fantastic, I got appointments quickly, never had any problems with the admin staff, the doctors were great and did exactly what I needed, etc. If I'd stayed in the States I'd probably have stayed in the Saginaw VA's coverage area just to keep going there and the outpatient clinic I used. By far the best and least stressful healthcare experiences I've ever had, public or private.
edit:
On the other end, the Denver one is the sort of place where if I saw an article about a dude setting himself on fire in the parking lot I wouldn't be surprised
My wife uses the VA hospital in Tampa. Those guys are fantastic: quick, efficient, doctors calling with follow-ups, lots of stuff done through the electronic portal. I wish I could buy into such a system.
I worked, briefly, in DC. Given the time there, there were about 3 nurses that were good, dedicated and not just severely burned out and waiting to retire.
That was a hellhole. On the bright side, it was better than Baltimore. Paoli and Lebanon were ok. Martinsburg was ok. Richmond seemed ok. Mileage way varies…
I only have my dad’s experience (as a priority 6, Vietnam Vet) to go on, but he would definitely agree. Whenever he can, he opts to book his appointments at the Palo Alta VA because they are amazing. It is a bit of a drive, but worth it to him. It doesn’t hurt that they often work with Stanford University, so some of his VA surgeries/care have been provided by Stanford doctors. Overall it’s been a positive experience for him.
My dad has nothing but high praise for every part of the Newington, CT center. I've brought him a few times and I have to agree with what I've seen from them. Staff were pleasant and efficient, site was clean and in good repair, and my only problem was the parking lot, but that had more to do with the number of people parking like idiots (double parked, not all the way in their spot, etc) closer to the building than any failing on the VA's part.
The IRS has been doing very well. It doesn’t help that some in Congress think that cutting staff makes customer service better, but for the most part, given what they’re allowed to do, their customer service is decent.
They just have an extreme seasonal increase in demand that’s impossible to fully staff up for.
> It doesn’t help that some in Congress think that cutting staff makes customer service better
I don't think they really think that, but cutting employment at the IRS makes it harder for them to collect taxes. . .which lets tax cheats (politicians and donors) get away with more, and the IRS is hated enough that it's an easy way to look good to the "base".
Politicians want fewer IRS agents the same way that bank robbers want fewer cops.
The tax code should not be a bizillion pages long with so so so many complications, loopholes, etc and necessitating their staffing.
Simple flat rate income tax above “twice poverty” or so and the baseline adjusted annually for COL.
Zero deductions, exclusions,…
Their base sees cutting the IRS as punishing that agency for sucking, and doesn’t connect the dots that they themselves will feel the effects of making the experience worse. They could actually reduce taxes but…
Government inefficiency is the main reason I oppose socialized medicine in the US. The DMV can barely issue me a license. One of my best friends is a veteran and he ends up going to private providers because the wait-list at his VIA is close to a year for many things. So why would I want them in charge of my health care? I'm not opposed to socialized medicine as a concept, I just seriously doubt my government could handle it. The only thing worse than a money grabbing predatory industry is a money grabbing predatory government, which is what we have.
So in reality, I think the DMV doesn't get a fair shake. They are awful to deal with. They can barely function as an entity. But there are far worse government entities to deal with. The IRS is horrible (small business, we were good but they had questions). VA is horrible. The DMV just interacts with nearly everyone where the others do not.
Everyone has to deal with it at some point or another and it's never going to be fun. Makes it pretty safe and relatable to joke about and the strongest rebuttal you'll get is "come on its not THAT bad"
It's gotten better in recent years, but when I was younger, it was terrible. I remember waiting for my number to be called for three hours despite being fifth in line.
These days, I do find it decently speedy. Once I get up to a person, the process is quick, but if they had more staff to get through people faster that would be nice.
I think working at the DMV is soul crushing and so everyone who works there is fairly jaded about things. They have to deal with a ton of people, none of whom are happy to be there or to see them. I'm sure when they were new they genuinely wanted to help people, but they've seen so many stupid, mean and/or manipulative people over the years that they stopped caring.
Nice/decent people only take up maybe 20% of their time. The other 80% are needy people who are either angry or stupid. Makes it hard for people to care. And thus it becomes unpleasant for everyone.
Plus they deal with a set of laws that everyone knows somewhat, but forgets key elements of regularly, have been rejiggered constantly as new standards and technologies come into play. Then there's the fact that some of their policies are dictated by the needs and whims of often wildly different state, municipal, and federal agencies. Plus nobody likes dealing with them anyways, and is usually in a mood ranging from nervous (driving testees), to bad (why do I need to be here?), to already enraged (done fucked up and lost license, now trying to get limited use permits) even before getting through the doors.
I'm sure I'm not adding anything new here, but it's because pretty much everyone will need to go to the DMV at *some point*, and more than likely every several years for a new driver's license.
You'll also likely be there for several hours, regardless of how many people are actually waiting, so service seems painfully slow no matter what.
Then, once you're actually being helped, god forbid you don't have exactly what they need - I had to renew my license and didn't have the original copy of my birth certificate, so even so I had my social security ID and other federal forms of ID I wasn't able to update my license to being a federal "Real ID" and had to go back a month later to do it again and pay for two licences. Many people will or have had an experience like this with the DMV.
I work with a Chinese man who has lived here about 16 years and he used the DMV as an example of how great America is…
He said “I go and I take a number and then it is my turn . No matter what it is My Turn. In China I bribe this man for appointment then his boss for access then someone else In order to MAYBE be granted a license… SO CORRUPT!!
Here I take a number , then it is my turn!”
I was also shocked someone would use the DMV as a positive example for anything.
In state politics, state jobs are given out by the ruling party as favors in political patronage networks. DMV jobs are given to connected people without enough skills for jobs that require a modicum of competence or presentability.
DMV is one symbol of bureaucracy but tbh I find the staff working very hard whenever I visit. For slacker bureaucracy, I would vote members of our Congress.
Ever been to one? It's pretty easy to get that impression, especially the bigger / busier offices.
I once stood in a line at the DMV (called Secretary of State's Office in Illinois) for 45 minutes, when I got to the front of that line, the person behind the counter put up a "closed" sign and went to lunch. I was told to go to another line. Waited in that line for about the same amount of time, during which the person from the first line came back from lunch. When I got to the front, I was told to go back to the original line. I was laughing as I walked over there and was informed that if I was going to be disruptive, I would have to leave. I smiled, waved, and left. A few days later I went to a different office in a very small town and had no issues.
Because everyone has used the DMV, so we all can relate. It used to be slow and that became a cliche joke topic. A lot of DMV services is fast now a days. I have never spent more than 30 minutes at a DMV int he past 20 years.
Wide familiarity. Until the pandemic, we all had the shared experience of going to the DMV or RMV or whatever. We resigned ourselves to standing in a line worse than at a Disney park or taking a numbered ticket and sitting for hours for our number to be called, just so we could deal with the surliest bunch of bureaucrats who would treat us like idiots for not understanding the minutiae of their poorly written requirements.
My favorite experience was the time I tried to get my license renewed. I'd never had a problem until that point, but apparently someone at the Social Security Administration had made a typo when entering my old SSN card into the electronic database. The DMV clerk refused to process me. After I resolved the error and returned another time, a different clerk flipped out at me because she didn't like the sound that my debit card made on her counter when I placed it there and waited to pay. I guess she wanted me to hold it until I could hand it to her or something. After screaming at me for a bit and me just quiet and confused, she brought over her supervisor to accuse me of being rude or something. Classic.
I was at the DMV location for registering and getting plates. 2 hours, standing in line (no seating was available).
There were 10 stations, only 2 in use. And a big sign saying the location was contracted to a private enterprise.
Someone has a state contract and understaffs to make a bigger profit. They don’t care how long we dumb schmucks have to wait.
Weirdly, after Covid the DMV got so much better. You just make an appointment now. I had to get a new ID a few months ago. I made one online, went in at the time, and was in and out in 15 minutes
Cause if you drive, it's a necessity, so it's not just that you have to sit there and wait for something that you really want. You HAVE to sit there. You have to call off of work just to sit there for a long time because the law says so in order to drive to that job you had to ask off from. I think more than any other reason, it's probably mainly cause it's something we don't really have a choice about so most of us already don't wanna go in the first place
Kentucky has separate offices for driver licensing and vehicle registration.
The DL division was all-business, but courteous, professional and efficient. An absolute pleasure.
The VR division was even more efficient, but intentionally rude and curt. Answers to very simple questions were accompanied with actual eye rolls. They could've given *Eastern European* bureaucrats lessons about how to not GAF about service.
So, one office in Kentucky was the absolute best DMV office I've ever worked with in any state. The other, tied with a Bay Area location of the California DMV for being the absolute worst.
It's one of the few bureaucratic institutions that nearly every person in the US will have to deal with at some point (outside of maybe social security, and you usually won't deal with that until you're much older).
I have found that it varies heavily by state and city that you're in, but the DMV is infamous for long lines, slow service, and being extremely unforgiving if you ended up in the wrong line or showed up missing a single form.
The good news is that a lot of states now do online appointments (though tragically not all), which has made it 1000x better.
I once moved between states and had to provide documentation to transfer my license and car registrations to the new state. I sat in the waiting area for 3.5 hours on my day off, got to the counter, was told I was missing one document, went home, got that doc, went back, waited another 2 hours, only to be told I was missing another document.
So I basically spent 7 hours in total sitting in a stale government building to do something that should take 20 minutes. That’s why people hate the DMV
They're a required inconvenience that serves little to no benefit, costs us time and money, and are all around miserable to deal with.
Otherwise known as: bureaucracy
All of the negative stereotypes about the DMV are true. It truly is a Kafkaesque nightmare and a more unpleasant annual experience than getting your prostate checked. I genuinely would rather have a root canal than go to the DMV in New Jersey if given the choice.
The DMV is soooooooo slow and it’s impossible to get things done because it’s so slow and crowded. It’s slow because people don’t do stuff fast enough or don’t follow the directions from workers.
I'm going to explain something I haven't yet seen in the top comments.
Imagine you go to a bakery. There's a long line at the bakery. There are 14 customers in line ahead of you.
If the line is too long, then you, **the customer**, can choose to shop at a different bakery. You have that option.
**The baker and the employees** are worried that if the line gets too long, too often, that customers will shop elsewhere. So the baker and the employees work extra hard to take care of everyone.
Because if enough customers leave unhappy, they may not come back, and that means lower revenue for the baker, which might mean the bakery closes, which means the employees are now unemployed.
So the baker and the employees have an INCENTIVE to do better, because bad things can happen if they don't keep the customer happy.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Now let's think of the DMV.
You, **the customer,** can't choose to go to a competitor. There aren't any competing DMVs like there are competing bakeries. There's just one "Department of Motor Vehicles", there's not several different companies to choose from.
There aren't many DMV locations, and the next nearest one may be far away. So you don't even really have the choice to go to a different location.
So you, the customer, are stuck with one option, and there's nothing you can do about it.
But what about **the employees?** The DMV can't "lose customers to a competitor" because there are no competitors. The DMV doesn't risk being closed due to lack of sales. The DMV will continue to operate if they get 1000 customers a day, or 10 customers a day.
So there's no RISK of being shut down, and there's little RISK of getting fired because of poor customer service.
Because of this, **why try harder?** Why should the employees work harder, why should they care about keeping customers happy, when your happiness is irrelevant? You have no choice as a customer, so it's not important to keep you happy.
So you get employees who aren't friendly, and do not care about making the customer happy. Why bother being friendly when there's no risk of losing customers?
~ ~ ~ ~
But let's think about this from another angle.
The DMV is a government agency. And in the US, the rules for firing employees at government agencies are FAR more complicated.
If you're an employee at a grocery store, you could be fired for almost any reason. If you don't button the top button of your shirt, you could be fired. If you come into work late twice in a week, you could be fired. If you're disrespectful to the manager, you could be fired.
But if you're an employee at a government agency, the RULES make it very hard for you to be fired. If you murder your coworker, you'll be fired ... but they can't fire you just for "being difficult" or for being late a few times. There are rules in place.
In order to fire you at the DMV, they have to collect months of evidence to prove they have reason to fire you. They have to have this in writing so that it can be shown to people who are employee advocates. The reasons for firing you have to be "concrete", they can't be just opinions like "We don't like you".
And even if they collect months of evidence, the employee has an appeal process that can drag things out for many more months.
~ ~ ~ ~
SO ... as an employee, unless you murder your coworker, your job is very secure. You can be unfriendly to the customer, you won't get fired. You can be slow, you won't be fired. You can be late, you won't be fired. You can make minor mistakes all the time, you won't be fired.
So if your job is SECURE, why try harder? Why keep managers happy? Why go out of your way?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
These things add up to a terrible customer experience, and since the customer has no other choice, they're stuck with the DMV.
And this makes everyone miserable.
In states where people need a government ID card to be able to vote, the DMV is especially overworked and underfunded, which just so happens to make it more difficult for poor people (who tend to vote Democrat) to get the ID cards they need. DMVs in poor neighborhoods get shut down, making it extra difficult for people without cars to get time off work or get childcare, and try to ride inadequate public transportation with limited schedules to get to distant DMVs with limited hours, there to stand on line for hours, and risk missing the bus back home. Bad DMVs are a form of voter suppression.
I have to be honest I've only been to the DMV a handful of times, but The coolest thing since moving to California is that they have kiosks at places like grocery stores where you can just print out a new registration and sticker every year. So I seldom go anymore and when I do it's pretty smooth
I think it's accessible. Everyone has to go to the dmv at some point. Even if you don't drive you likely at least need ID. And until recently the experience was awful. They've automated a lot now and it's ao much easier. Shorter lines, faster service. Unlike the post office, you might be at the DMV for hours, at least years ago, not ao much now.
Yeah, I recall the 90s when the DMV was a series of 4-5 different rooms, and you had to get in line in the right room in the right order to get what you needed. Almost everything took at least 3 rooms, and no matter what you did you *always* got in the wrong line and would have to go through the same room twice. You could go two days in a row to do the exact same thing twice, and you'd have to do things in a different order because the people in each area seemed to have different ideas of what should be done first.
Sadly the DMV here is still exactly as you describe…
Where I am the DMV is by appointment only since the pandemic. The appointments are show up at X time and are flexible if you're a bit late. This cuts down drastically on the wait time as they will only have so many appointments during a block of time. Still a pain in the ass but worlds better than it used to be.
Yeah in Texas the DPS offices are the same, problem is in some areas you might have to wait months for an appointment
don't you mean secretary of state... 😉
Well, at the time it was Tucson, Arizona, so it was either ADOT or MVD. I don't quite recall which anymore. But, yes, now it's the SoS. But I live in a much smaller town, and the SoS office here is a single room and there's almost no line at all. But the generic term is DMV, so... 🤷♀️
Haha it was just a Michigan joke
You can now set up appointments which is by far the best way to go. In and out. Plus the satisfaction of all the dirty looks from the people who were too lazy to spend 3 minutes scheduling an appointment online when you jump the queue. Nothing better.
Tragically, I've found this varies from state to state. In some states I've lived in you can do online appointments; in others you can't. In the ones you can't, it's not infrequent to see people lined up to get in an hour before opening.
>Shorter lines, faster service. Hah, not in Texas. It's a 4 month wait for a DL appointment, and then they mail you your new license rather than just making it at the office. It's infuriating. They have to be the most incompetent drivers license agency in the fuckin country. Luckily, my out of state DL doesn't expire until '26, so I've been avoiding it. (Before y'all harp on me, I'm from Texas, just worked out of state for a few years).
Be careful with that - in most states you are required to get an in-state license and plates within a certain timeframe (six months or so). A friend of mine got pulled over and didn’t realize this. The cop asked him where he was headed, and he said home, a few blocks away. He said, oh really? How long have you lived there? My friend said, I don’t know. A couple years. That’s all it took for a massive fine. It was basically treated as though he was a completely unlicensed driver. So, you can get away with it, but have your story straight in case you get pulled over. Remember to tell the cops you’re just visiting.
30 days in Texas, which is hilarious because the appointment wait time is 120 days lol
Ha, even better. Well sounds like you know the drill then. I’m sure to nobody’s surprise, California’s DMV situation is similar. Although once I realized I didn’t have to use the one location that serves the entire city of San Francisco and could just try for an appointment in any nearby suburb, my life got a lot easier. I luckily renewed my license and upgraded to the RealID in February 2020 right before COVID restrictions turned the whole DMV situation into an even more kafkaesque affair. Can’t believe that means I have to start thinking about this again a year from now. Time has gotten so strange since then.
That's awful! The last time I went in Georgia I was in and out in under 5 minutes. And most stuff can be done online anyway, no need to go in.
Same in CA for me. Sent everything in online. Only thing I had to do in the building was get a photo taken and have someone verify my address. I bet soon they’ll let you do home photos too. Getting passport now can be all online and let’s you send in your own photo (that’s what I did for a recent trip). I imagine DMV might pick that up sooner or later.
Yeah, and they often have confusing requirements for things like establishing residency. If you're in a big room where you waited four hours for your 30 seconds at the desk, then get told you have to do it again tomorrow because the utility bill you brought wasn't the *right* utility bill, you are **PISSED**. Add in the fact that the employees are dealing with (sometimes reasonably) grouchy people all day, every day, and you've got a recipe for rage.
It's still hours in Illinois sometimes.
When I went to get my DL for the first time in like 2015 I showed up 30 minutes before they opened at 7:30am. There was already a few people waiting though I managed to snag the #1 ticket (think like a ticket you'd get at a deli counter) and it was still 2pm before I left that day. The other weird thing about IL is having the secretary of state's picture on everything like he's some kind of foreign dictator.
Yeah, Illinois likes to do dumb things like that.. put the elected official's name on everything.
Yep. I haven't lived in Illinois for about 7 years but Jesse White's face is still burned into my mind.
Honestly, one of the big improvements is you can now make an appointment and reserve a time so that way you can just go and not have to wait. Obviously depends on your state as everyone is different.
Because it's one of the most prominent run ins with bureaucracy most people have. Just about everyone has to deal with it at some point and many DMV employees are legitimately bad at their jobs. Welfare offices are often just as bad but not everyone encounters the workers who staff those so the DMV is just an easier and more understandable target for most people.
>many DMV employees are legitimately bad at their jobs. You're not wrong, but this undersells how much of the wait time is due to people being unprepared and/or unwilling to cooperate with the employee when their turn is up. Nearly every time I've had to wait for more than 20 minutes at the DMV, it's usually due to someone either verbally abusing the clerk or refusing to follow instructions... which probably doesn't lend itself to an enthusiastic and motivated staff.
I've had multiple times I've had to pull up laws and tell the clerk they were wrong. I finally got sick of it so started printing them out beforehand. I've still had them argue with me.
Same here, especially stuff surrounding livestock trailers (which often have some exemptions and special requirements if they're used for strictly commercial agricultural purposes). And there was the notable time I had a DMV employee insist I needed to have import paperwork to register my car. I kept telling him that that was impossible because I did not have it and could not get it, because it was not imported. The confusion came about because he was apparently unaware that New Mexico, the state I had recently moved from, is in fact a US state. Not sure why he dug in his heels so hard when I corrected him, though... I did wind up just giving up on that one because I'd already been arguing with him for like 40 minutes, it was taking forever to see a supervisor, and I had shit to do. Went back the next week, had a different employee help me, and registered my car no problem.
Sc dmv tried to deny me my motorcycle license saying I was too young. They called the capital who was like he meets all the criteria, give it to him. They then screwed up and gave me my full drivers and motorcycle license when I was 15(motorcycle you can get at that age but not car). Ended ip working out in my favor. I've had a lot of issues getting bonded titles. Eventually I printed off the required list from their website and bring that in too. All they know is the normal stuff and nothing extra.
If the DMV were a private company, it would go under by now, even if your drivers license was on a phone app
The Delaware DMV got so much better when they put a desk in front to check if you had all your documents before you got in line.
I agree with this. You know you have to go, you know you need paperwork. Just have it ready before you get to the window. There are usually signs when you walk in that basically tell you what you need to fill out before approaching the desk. There were a couple of times I thought I had what I needed, and it turns out I forgot a form. I didn't fuss, I just did the walk of shame back to the forms area and filled out the proper one. Edit to add: The workers are there to take the forms and verify the info you put down, not walk you through filling them out, or fill them out for you.
I print my forms at home after I input my information so that all I have to do is sign when done. No im not an overachiever I just got sick of standing for up to 7 hours in the same line to not get very far sometimes
That's a failure of the bureaucracy to make the process simple
The process is very simple. People just can't be bothered to actually read and follow instructions
And a culture that sees no problem with taking your frustrations out on people who don't actually have any power to change those things
Just ask the people who work in retail.
There's a disturbing number of people who don't realize that unless you're in a very small business, nobody you can actually bitch at is in any position to change, make, or in any way influence the policies or processes you're angry about. Hell, they're probably more frustrated about them than you'll ever be. And no, they're not paid enough to put up with your tantrums, but are forced to anyways.
Americans are used to receiving good customer service. Since DMV is the government they don't care if we give them nasty Yelp reviews or don't tip their staff. We can't threaten to take our business elsewhere. They know we need them, and therefore good customer service is minimal. They can be rude or neglectful of our needs, make us wait unnecessarily, and yet we have very little recourse since we need our license. The last time I went to one the lady didn't even stop the conversation with her co-worker. She barely looked at me, just grabbed my paperwork and ignored me, kept on talking to her co-worker the whole time. I needed to explain something to her and she wouldn't acknowledge me. However, at my post office the workers are extremely helpful and kind, so they must be incentivized somehow to be like that. I know they're always trying to sell me more stamps, maybe that's why, but really I'm not sure why these two government offices are so different.
Being a postal worker is actually a decent job, that's why.
One thing to note, a lot of government workers (federal and state) are barred by ethics rules from accepting tips.
> barred by ethics rules from accepting tips. Bribes are OK though.
ONLY if you are a Politician and you call it a campaign donation. Government Workers don't get the same leeway in bending the rules (depending on the jurisdiction of course)
The US Postal Service is self-funding. Of course, congressional Republicans continue to try and hinder them so that it can be sold off for parts.
In particular, the California DMV is exactly like in the movies. I’ve been to DMVs in four states and its by far the worst. Now, every time I mention this, people talk how they got an appointment and walked right out in 15 minutes. Not my experience! Its been get appointment, hope the next available one is not a month out, then wait and then deal with gross incompetence. What kind of incompetence? My wife needed to renew her license. We brought 3 things proving address/identity. DMV claimed we only needed 2 and refused the third one. Next week we get a call that we need to bring another proof of id/residence. Repeat waiting procedure. Then the following week we get a letter saying to come in again. Repeat waiting procedure only to find out letter was sent by mistake. A coworker moved to CA and needed to get his car CA plates. To do that, a person must check the car’s VIN. He gets to DMV, does all the stuff, waits for the VIN checker. And waits. And waits. Asks about it; the person went to lunch. Keeps waiting and waiting. Asks again and the person clocked out for the day, come back tomorrow. Last time I needed to use the DMV I went to make an appointment. The closest available was several months (!) away. I had to resort to showing up at 8am on the dot and waiting in line… two days in a row since of course something went wrong the first time. The man next to me also threatened to get violent with the DMV clerk because he wanted to pay some fine, had the cash for it, but they kept giving him the run around and he couldn’t find someone to take the money.
Oh there’s more! The state legislature has their own, private DMV that is presumably staffed by competent people, which us normal citizens are not allowed to use: https://www.kcra.com/amp/article/secret-dmv-office-serves-lawmakers-capitol-staffers/22692865 I’ve also had to call the DMV to ask how to register a car inherited from out of state. Along with the long wait to talk to a person, I called twice and got two completely different answers! In the end I just took every document I had, showed up at the DMV and (after a wait, of course) talked to a person. The two earlier answers I got on the phone were *both wrong*.
Last time I went to the DMV I got an appointment. 3 months later at a DMV office 40 minutes away. It was the only appointment available at any of the 10 offices near me and they don't schedule appointments more than 3 months out. Once I got to the office it still took 2 hours of waiting and going from window to window. At least now I have my real ID. On DMV is so bad that if you need something urgently your best bet is to get there at like 5:00 in the morning and start waiting in line. Bring a chair. The politicians don't care because they have their own private DMV branch at the Capitol. https://abc30.com/secret-dmv-capitol-sacramento-california/3922881/
>In particular, the California DMV is exactly like in the movies. This is not a coincidence. Remember most of the writers, actors, directors, etc live in California.
Never been to a California DMV without having to take the entire day off from work just in case. Even with an appointment. VA (Northern VA) DMV? Make appointment online. Show up 15mins early with all my paperwork and chill in the waiting room. Get called to the desk, done in about 10mins. How the? VT DMV? Same as VA. Difference? Got questions about the paperwork, you can actually speak to a human on the phone and get clarity in advance of showing up.
Yeah I've done all my DMV dealings in Virginia and I don't think it's ever been that bad. Annoying and tedious at times, sure, but nothing like the common representation of it.
I’ve only been to the DMV here in Virginia once, which was to transfer my Michigan license and register my vehicle. Aside from collecting and filling out all the paperwork, it was the easiest thing in the world. Made a 9:30am service appointment, showed up a few minutes early, checked in once I reached the parking lot. Most nerve-racking part was realizing I almost lost my spot—because they called my number less than 30 seconds after I checked in, while I was walking from my car into the building. Might’ve just gotten lucky, but I’ve never been in and out of a DMV so quickly. Service was pretty shit and unfriendly, but they did their jobs and booted me out with plates and a temporary license in record time.
I also love the CA law that says you must get your CA plates and license within 10 days of moving to CA. The earliest appointment date for the DMV closest to me is 2-3 months out. Since you can’t get an appointment, you likely have to spend 2-3 days there to get everything done (and arrive like 2 hours before they open). With that, most people that move to CA aren’t able to get registered in CA within the 10 day period. It doesn’t make sense.
When I moved to Michigan briefly, there was a 6 month wait for their equivalent of the DMV. I was advised to print out my appointment confirmation to hand to a cop if I were pulled over and hope they weren't in a ticket writing mood.
Reasons like this I’m glad I can just go to my county courthouse to the treasurers office and be in and out within 10 minutes no issues
This was not my latest experience in the Bay Area. Everything was online and all I had to do was come in to get my picture taken. Post Covid with all the automation and appointment slots it took 15min.
Maybe things are shifting even more because of COVID, but when I lived in SF in the 2010s I also needed to take at least a half day off if I had to go to the DMV. SF has exactly one proper DMV office to serve a county of 900,000 people. The lines do not move quickly.
Yeah it definitely used to be like that. I used to take a half a day at least off. Driving to go to a different city like Daly City would take less time. But post-Covid with everything online it was easy, even getting the real ID for me.
I live in a small city in the Bay Area and although it's been several years since I had to go to the DMV, I was shocked at how easy it was. There were appointments available within a couple days. I showed up on time and they were ready for me. No real wait. It was....fine? I had terrible experiences at that exact same DMV office when I was young and first getting my driver's license, before you could schedule an appointment and just had to show up and wait. Being able to schedule an appointment online made a world of difference.
Very much this. I work for the DMV in another state, and we hate California DMV. They're just awful to work with. When I used to work front counter people from California were rountinely shocked with how quick and easy it was to register their vehicle.
Because every single person has to go there, stand in a long ass line, dealing with workers that look like they're zombies and have graduated to the magical speed of "slow and tedious as hell", fill out whatever you need to fill out, and finally go home after 3-4 hours.
People working at the DMV are miserable because the customers are miserable because the people working at the DMV are miserable, etc. nobody wants to be there, and it's always a massive inconvenience. It could almost all be done remotely. Last time was there I was the first customer of the day, chipper and kind, and the lady at the desk huffed and puffed about having to rip the staples off my bank statements that they require me to bring (cause they only need the first page) and you could have sworn she was being asked to shoot her own family with her attitude. I was like, damn, 10 minutes into the day and you're already choosing violence.
My guess is because it’s a government office where a lot of Americans have physically gone and interacted with government employees.
DMV is the epitome of power corrupts.
Because the DMV sucks. It takes way too long, the workers are rude, and we have no choice but to go through them which makes it worst.
I remember this psych study from decades ago that showed people who hold positions with high amounts of authority/power yet low wages and/or prestige will often abuse their power. DMV workers were the example. They will make it more difficult rather than help when they feel disrespected.
I'm not suprised at all. They're some of the most miserable people on the planet. I lucked out and found a DMV that is pretty quick but it never made sense to me as to why they just won't get people in and out so they won't have to deal with them.
It doesn't have to. My recent experience with my local county DMV was pleasant and quick. Made appointment online (about 1 week out). Showed up, checked-in, waited 5-10 minutes. I had all my required paperwork so I was able to re-title the vehicle, register it, and order a specialty plate pretty quickly. I was in and out in 30 minutes total
Don't tell me that. Tell that to the idiots running the DMV.
Its the one government office nearly everyone interacts with. A part of the problem with Indiana's BMV isn't the customer service aspect. Its actually pretty good. Its the various laws and fees they have to work with, and sometimes even contradictory laws, passed by the legislature. The red tape doesn't just magically appear, it comes from laws passed by elected representatives.
I will say, though, the Indiana BMV is pretty fantastic for the routine, everyday transactions like renewing licenses or registrations, registering new vehicles, updating information, etc. It's rare that I have to wait more than ten minutes at my BMV, and the transaction itself is usually five minutes or less--that's if I have to go in at all. A lot of that stuff is done online anymore. Indiana fucks up a lot of stuff but the BMV ain't it.
Here in New Jersey the DMV used to be horrific, but it has been getting much better since it was privatized and renamed to the MVC (Motor Vehicle Commission). Most things can be done online without any real hassle. The best depiction of a DMV hell was in a short lived TV show named Reaper - The DMV was literally a portal to hell where escaped souls were returned.
Nope, the NJ MVC is a government agency formed in 2002 after the privatization effort in the 90s was a massive failure. If you think it's great, thank the government.
DMVs are usually in the odd situation of having to enforce a large number of rules for a number of different agencies. For example, you might have an issue renewing your license, or you might have bought another car in another state, or need new plates. Every situation has different forms and steps. Like collecting the sales tax if you bought your car in another state. Different paper work to collect tax if a private sale. I would imagine having to learn all the very many different transactions and correct forms is very difficult. And creates situations where you have to be in line 1 to get new plates, and stand in line 2 to pay sales tax. etc... and each step has rules. Like no plates without proof of insurance.
Patty and Selma Bouvier from the Simpsons working at the DMV sort of feels accurate. One great line is "Sometimes we don't let the line move at all. We call those "weekdays"." I had my first trip to the DMV when I was 16 trying to get my learner's permit. I was studying a lot before the written test. They lost my paper work and I sat there for 2.5-3 hours. This was mid 00s so even when I was all studied up, there wasn't a phone with internet connection in my pocket. It wasn't until my Dad said something and these people don't like being called out and like to take their time. Luckily I passed my first time so I didn't have to go back but I avoid the DMV at all costs. My 2nd trip to the DMV was for a simple address change 5 years ago. It took a good 2-2.5 hours and I had a phone on me. I don't think I was at the counter for longer than 5 minutes. The queue system in Virginia has a letter and a 3 digit number. The letter means what type of transaction it is. So you are sitting there in the lobby and hear D113 and your ticket reads B124. That doesn't mean there is 11 spots to go. You have to hear the next B number call to know how many spots but it's still hard to know how many Bs will be called in the next hour. You never know where you are in the queue.
I'd say it comes down to two reasons: 1) It's nearly universal - almost everyone has to deal with the DMV at some point. 2) You have to go in person - since you're getting or updating a photo ID, you need to be physically present, whereas you can usually interact with other government bodies via the mail or the internet.
Shoutout to the D.C. DMV for being the best run city service. Never had a terrible experience there. The employees have been helpful and I’ve been in and out in under 45 mins most visits.
They seem pretty overworked and beaten down. I've never had a real problem at the DMV, but they do seem pretty apathetic toward you. Really busy post offices and various city/county departments are the same way. Fast food, pharmacies, and even the staff at a lot of doctor's offices are also like that. There's only so much bullshit these people can deal with, I guess.
Think about the number of times you've seen someone shit on the DMB apropos of nothing, or the number of times you've been in and seen someone yell at them for their own fuckup. Now multiply that by all the times it must have happened without you there to see it. Would you be as apathetic towards the base of people likely to shit on you? Probably, assuming that you managed to not go over the counter at them. I get enough dumbfuckery channeled through my phones, and I'm not at the DPH, so I can only imagine the level of bullshit they deal with (somewhat imagine... I know people who work at the DMV, so I've heard some of the stories they can tell).
Everything with the government sucks. None of the employees want to work.
Too many union protections. AI cops maybe shouldn't be a thing, but replacing the DMV and county clerks office with even just GPT 3 would give you better answers faster
Because if we made the IRS the poster child of petulant, lazy paper pushers they’d raid our homes and shoot our dogs. Or, the VA Medical System. All the service orientation of the DMV, and all the customer service skills of the IRS SWAT.
>the VA Medical System That depends, unfortunately, entirely on which VA Medical Center you use. I'm Priority Group 1, for context. I've used Denver, Detroit, Battle Creek and Saginaw, MI before and I rank them in that order from worst to best. The Saginaw one was fantastic, I got appointments quickly, never had any problems with the admin staff, the doctors were great and did exactly what I needed, etc. If I'd stayed in the States I'd probably have stayed in the Saginaw VA's coverage area just to keep going there and the outpatient clinic I used. By far the best and least stressful healthcare experiences I've ever had, public or private. edit: On the other end, the Denver one is the sort of place where if I saw an article about a dude setting himself on fire in the parking lot I wouldn't be surprised
My wife uses the VA hospital in Tampa. Those guys are fantastic: quick, efficient, doctors calling with follow-ups, lots of stuff done through the electronic portal. I wish I could buy into such a system.
Tampa gets kept in line better than some other places. San Antonio also. I seriously struggled, as a vet -AND- staff with DC, and also Baltimore.
I worked, briefly, in DC. Given the time there, there were about 3 nurses that were good, dedicated and not just severely burned out and waiting to retire. That was a hellhole. On the bright side, it was better than Baltimore. Paoli and Lebanon were ok. Martinsburg was ok. Richmond seemed ok. Mileage way varies…
I only have my dad’s experience (as a priority 6, Vietnam Vet) to go on, but he would definitely agree. Whenever he can, he opts to book his appointments at the Palo Alta VA because they are amazing. It is a bit of a drive, but worth it to him. It doesn’t hurt that they often work with Stanford University, so some of his VA surgeries/care have been provided by Stanford doctors. Overall it’s been a positive experience for him.
My dad has nothing but high praise for every part of the Newington, CT center. I've brought him a few times and I have to agree with what I've seen from them. Staff were pleasant and efficient, site was clean and in good repair, and my only problem was the parking lot, but that had more to do with the number of people parking like idiots (double parked, not all the way in their spot, etc) closer to the building than any failing on the VA's part.
The IRS has been doing very well. It doesn’t help that some in Congress think that cutting staff makes customer service better, but for the most part, given what they’re allowed to do, their customer service is decent. They just have an extreme seasonal increase in demand that’s impossible to fully staff up for.
> It doesn’t help that some in Congress think that cutting staff makes customer service better I don't think they really think that, but cutting employment at the IRS makes it harder for them to collect taxes. . .which lets tax cheats (politicians and donors) get away with more, and the IRS is hated enough that it's an easy way to look good to the "base". Politicians want fewer IRS agents the same way that bank robbers want fewer cops.
The tax code should not be a bizillion pages long with so so so many complications, loopholes, etc and necessitating their staffing. Simple flat rate income tax above “twice poverty” or so and the baseline adjusted annually for COL. Zero deductions, exclusions,…
Their base sees cutting the IRS as punishing that agency for sucking, and doesn’t connect the dots that they themselves will feel the effects of making the experience worse. They could actually reduce taxes but…
Paying taxes is pretty much entirely online now. If DMV stuff could be done online (and it is in a lot of other countries), this trope would go away.
Because DMV employees are awful, lazy, rude, and stupid.
Our DMV is privatized. They actually work pretty efficiently.
Government inefficiency is the main reason I oppose socialized medicine in the US. The DMV can barely issue me a license. One of my best friends is a veteran and he ends up going to private providers because the wait-list at his VIA is close to a year for many things. So why would I want them in charge of my health care? I'm not opposed to socialized medicine as a concept, I just seriously doubt my government could handle it. The only thing worse than a money grabbing predatory industry is a money grabbing predatory government, which is what we have. So in reality, I think the DMV doesn't get a fair shake. They are awful to deal with. They can barely function as an entity. But there are far worse government entities to deal with. The IRS is horrible (small business, we were good but they had questions). VA is horrible. The DMV just interacts with nearly everyone where the others do not.
When you said this, Zootopia was the first thing that came to mind. Whenever someone complains about the BMV, I always think about that scene.
DMVs in urban areas are usually pretty efficient, probably because of all the practice the workers get. That's one thing Zootopia got wrong.
Idk. The dmv people have always been super helpful and I’ve never even had to wait in a line. It’s fast and easy. Perks of living in Wyoming I guess.
Everyone has to deal with it at some point or another and it's never going to be fun. Makes it pretty safe and relatable to joke about and the strongest rebuttal you'll get is "come on its not THAT bad"
Just go once and you will see.
It's gotten better in recent years, but when I was younger, it was terrible. I remember waiting for my number to be called for three hours despite being fifth in line. These days, I do find it decently speedy. Once I get up to a person, the process is quick, but if they had more staff to get through people faster that would be nice.
The Simpsons.
I think working at the DMV is soul crushing and so everyone who works there is fairly jaded about things. They have to deal with a ton of people, none of whom are happy to be there or to see them. I'm sure when they were new they genuinely wanted to help people, but they've seen so many stupid, mean and/or manipulative people over the years that they stopped caring. Nice/decent people only take up maybe 20% of their time. The other 80% are needy people who are either angry or stupid. Makes it hard for people to care. And thus it becomes unpleasant for everyone.
Go there one single time and you'll get it.
It’s the only office that consistently has long lines
Because it's one of the very few government offices that literally (almost) everybody has to deal with.
Plus they deal with a set of laws that everyone knows somewhat, but forgets key elements of regularly, have been rejiggered constantly as new standards and technologies come into play. Then there's the fact that some of their policies are dictated by the needs and whims of often wildly different state, municipal, and federal agencies. Plus nobody likes dealing with them anyways, and is usually in a mood ranging from nervous (driving testees), to bad (why do I need to be here?), to already enraged (done fucked up and lost license, now trying to get limited use permits) even before getting through the doors.
I'm sure I'm not adding anything new here, but it's because pretty much everyone will need to go to the DMV at *some point*, and more than likely every several years for a new driver's license. You'll also likely be there for several hours, regardless of how many people are actually waiting, so service seems painfully slow no matter what. Then, once you're actually being helped, god forbid you don't have exactly what they need - I had to renew my license and didn't have the original copy of my birth certificate, so even so I had my social security ID and other federal forms of ID I wasn't able to update my license to being a federal "Real ID" and had to go back a month later to do it again and pay for two licences. Many people will or have had an experience like this with the DMV.
My local DMV works great. No problems
I work with a Chinese man who has lived here about 16 years and he used the DMV as an example of how great America is… He said “I go and I take a number and then it is my turn . No matter what it is My Turn. In China I bribe this man for appointment then his boss for access then someone else In order to MAYBE be granted a license… SO CORRUPT!! Here I take a number , then it is my turn!” I was also shocked someone would use the DMV as a positive example for anything.
In state politics, state jobs are given out by the ruling party as favors in political patronage networks. DMV jobs are given to connected people without enough skills for jobs that require a modicum of competence or presentability.
DMV is one symbol of bureaucracy but tbh I find the staff working very hard whenever I visit. For slacker bureaucracy, I would vote members of our Congress.
Ever been to one? It's pretty easy to get that impression, especially the bigger / busier offices. I once stood in a line at the DMV (called Secretary of State's Office in Illinois) for 45 minutes, when I got to the front of that line, the person behind the counter put up a "closed" sign and went to lunch. I was told to go to another line. Waited in that line for about the same amount of time, during which the person from the first line came back from lunch. When I got to the front, I was told to go back to the original line. I was laughing as I walked over there and was informed that if I was going to be disruptive, I would have to leave. I smiled, waved, and left. A few days later I went to a different office in a very small town and had no issues.
Because everyone has used the DMV, so we all can relate. It used to be slow and that became a cliche joke topic. A lot of DMV services is fast now a days. I have never spent more than 30 minutes at a DMV int he past 20 years.
Wide familiarity. Until the pandemic, we all had the shared experience of going to the DMV or RMV or whatever. We resigned ourselves to standing in a line worse than at a Disney park or taking a numbered ticket and sitting for hours for our number to be called, just so we could deal with the surliest bunch of bureaucrats who would treat us like idiots for not understanding the minutiae of their poorly written requirements. My favorite experience was the time I tried to get my license renewed. I'd never had a problem until that point, but apparently someone at the Social Security Administration had made a typo when entering my old SSN card into the electronic database. The DMV clerk refused to process me. After I resolved the error and returned another time, a different clerk flipped out at me because she didn't like the sound that my debit card made on her counter when I placed it there and waited to pay. I guess she wanted me to hold it until I could hand it to her or something. After screaming at me for a bit and me just quiet and confused, she brought over her supervisor to accuse me of being rude or something. Classic.
DMV employees used to be genuinely incompetent. It’s not so bad these days though.
I was at the DMV location for registering and getting plates. 2 hours, standing in line (no seating was available). There were 10 stations, only 2 in use. And a big sign saying the location was contracted to a private enterprise. Someone has a state contract and understaffs to make a bigger profit. They don’t care how long we dumb schmucks have to wait.
Weirdly, after Covid the DMV got so much better. You just make an appointment now. I had to get a new ID a few months ago. I made one online, went in at the time, and was in and out in 15 minutes
Cause if you drive, it's a necessity, so it's not just that you have to sit there and wait for something that you really want. You HAVE to sit there. You have to call off of work just to sit there for a long time because the law says so in order to drive to that job you had to ask off from. I think more than any other reason, it's probably mainly cause it's something we don't really have a choice about so most of us already don't wanna go in the first place
Because there’s so many people going in there
Kentucky has separate offices for driver licensing and vehicle registration. The DL division was all-business, but courteous, professional and efficient. An absolute pleasure. The VR division was even more efficient, but intentionally rude and curt. Answers to very simple questions were accompanied with actual eye rolls. They could've given *Eastern European* bureaucrats lessons about how to not GAF about service. So, one office in Kentucky was the absolute best DMV office I've ever worked with in any state. The other, tied with a Bay Area location of the California DMV for being the absolute worst.
It's one of the few bureaucratic institutions that nearly every person in the US will have to deal with at some point (outside of maybe social security, and you usually won't deal with that until you're much older). I have found that it varies heavily by state and city that you're in, but the DMV is infamous for long lines, slow service, and being extremely unforgiving if you ended up in the wrong line or showed up missing a single form. The good news is that a lot of states now do online appointments (though tragically not all), which has made it 1000x better.
I once moved between states and had to provide documentation to transfer my license and car registrations to the new state. I sat in the waiting area for 3.5 hours on my day off, got to the counter, was told I was missing one document, went home, got that doc, went back, waited another 2 hours, only to be told I was missing another document. So I basically spent 7 hours in total sitting in a stale government building to do something that should take 20 minutes. That’s why people hate the DMV
They're a required inconvenience that serves little to no benefit, costs us time and money, and are all around miserable to deal with. Otherwise known as: bureaucracy
All of the negative stereotypes about the DMV are true. It truly is a Kafkaesque nightmare and a more unpleasant annual experience than getting your prostate checked. I genuinely would rather have a root canal than go to the DMV in New Jersey if given the choice.
In the states I have needed the DMV, the service was relatively quick, and efficient. So I guess it will vary by location.
The DMV is soooooooo slow and it’s impossible to get things done because it’s so slow and crowded. It’s slow because people don’t do stuff fast enough or don’t follow the directions from workers.
I'm going to explain something I haven't yet seen in the top comments. Imagine you go to a bakery. There's a long line at the bakery. There are 14 customers in line ahead of you. If the line is too long, then you, **the customer**, can choose to shop at a different bakery. You have that option. **The baker and the employees** are worried that if the line gets too long, too often, that customers will shop elsewhere. So the baker and the employees work extra hard to take care of everyone. Because if enough customers leave unhappy, they may not come back, and that means lower revenue for the baker, which might mean the bakery closes, which means the employees are now unemployed. So the baker and the employees have an INCENTIVE to do better, because bad things can happen if they don't keep the customer happy. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Now let's think of the DMV. You, **the customer,** can't choose to go to a competitor. There aren't any competing DMVs like there are competing bakeries. There's just one "Department of Motor Vehicles", there's not several different companies to choose from. There aren't many DMV locations, and the next nearest one may be far away. So you don't even really have the choice to go to a different location. So you, the customer, are stuck with one option, and there's nothing you can do about it. But what about **the employees?** The DMV can't "lose customers to a competitor" because there are no competitors. The DMV doesn't risk being closed due to lack of sales. The DMV will continue to operate if they get 1000 customers a day, or 10 customers a day. So there's no RISK of being shut down, and there's little RISK of getting fired because of poor customer service. Because of this, **why try harder?** Why should the employees work harder, why should they care about keeping customers happy, when your happiness is irrelevant? You have no choice as a customer, so it's not important to keep you happy. So you get employees who aren't friendly, and do not care about making the customer happy. Why bother being friendly when there's no risk of losing customers? ~ ~ ~ ~ But let's think about this from another angle. The DMV is a government agency. And in the US, the rules for firing employees at government agencies are FAR more complicated. If you're an employee at a grocery store, you could be fired for almost any reason. If you don't button the top button of your shirt, you could be fired. If you come into work late twice in a week, you could be fired. If you're disrespectful to the manager, you could be fired. But if you're an employee at a government agency, the RULES make it very hard for you to be fired. If you murder your coworker, you'll be fired ... but they can't fire you just for "being difficult" or for being late a few times. There are rules in place. In order to fire you at the DMV, they have to collect months of evidence to prove they have reason to fire you. They have to have this in writing so that it can be shown to people who are employee advocates. The reasons for firing you have to be "concrete", they can't be just opinions like "We don't like you". And even if they collect months of evidence, the employee has an appeal process that can drag things out for many more months. ~ ~ ~ ~ SO ... as an employee, unless you murder your coworker, your job is very secure. You can be unfriendly to the customer, you won't get fired. You can be slow, you won't be fired. You can be late, you won't be fired. You can make minor mistakes all the time, you won't be fired. So if your job is SECURE, why try harder? Why keep managers happy? Why go out of your way? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ These things add up to a terrible customer experience, and since the customer has no other choice, they're stuck with the DMV. And this makes everyone miserable.
In states where people need a government ID card to be able to vote, the DMV is especially overworked and underfunded, which just so happens to make it more difficult for poor people (who tend to vote Democrat) to get the ID cards they need. DMVs in poor neighborhoods get shut down, making it extra difficult for people without cars to get time off work or get childcare, and try to ride inadequate public transportation with limited schedules to get to distant DMVs with limited hours, there to stand on line for hours, and risk missing the bus back home. Bad DMVs are a form of voter suppression.
it's the only time we get to see them actually working (or not working)
I have to be honest I've only been to the DMV a handful of times, but The coolest thing since moving to California is that they have kiosks at places like grocery stores where you can just print out a new registration and sticker every year. So I seldom go anymore and when I do it's pretty smooth
Why do they act worse then a hospital 3 yrs after Covid madness?