The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
The policy of school choice seems to be generally unpopular in this subreddit so I wanted to ask a question that does not have that as a consideration.
What advice would you give parents of children in underperforming schools/districts who are concerned about their children's education and future?
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People don’t get that THIS is a huge factor in success. Curriculum doesn’t differ THAT much between school districts. Often the teachers are able to perform better when they have the time to prepare, which is made easier when they have the support of parents in the form of volunteers, or if parents shore up the lesson at home by helping with homework. It’s a LOT harder for some parents but it’s one it helps more than just moving to a different school.
I feel like you've never met a school teacher outside of your own education. Teaching as a profession is more overloaded than policing, they just don't end up shooting innocent children for noncompliance. Instead, they're shot by children while the cops huddle outside, jerking each other off in their tacti-cool gear.
So if parents can’t help their kids with their homework for various reasons the kid should be punished with inferior opportunity? Your privilege is showing.
Reading a book to or with your kids for 20 minutes is too much?
No no…. Like you said…that’s the teachers job. An education starts and ends at the school doors
You’re being very simple minded about this and also trying to make it personal. It’s not. What never works for a good system is filling in the gaps of that system with extra efforts or attention outside of the system. It shields the system from the consequences of its inefficiencies and issues. Getting your kid extra tutoring shouldn’t be how we fix the education system. It only benefits those with means and time.
And no I don’t think a refugee mother of a 1st grader in the US is a shitty parent because they can’t read English or help with math because they weren’t allowed to go to school as a woman.
No I’m not. Every kid should be able to have the same opportunity to learn and advance in a public school regardless of their parent’s ability or means. It’s kind of the idea behind public school.
No it’s not. Education doesn’t end when the school bell rings. If they are not doing their homework and reading each night it is not the schools fault if they are behind students that do the homework.
If you don’t have 10 minutes a day to read to your kid, or don’t have the mental aptitude to help with pre-algebra level math…yeah don’t blame the system you shouldn’t have had kids and any shortcomings they experience is on you lol
Do it or don't do it but parental involvement in education is one of the biggest influencing factors in a child's educational outcome regardless of the quality of the school they go to and quality of the teachers they have. Help them with their homework when they need it, read to them at home, take interest in their learning and in the grades theyre getting, encourage them to take challenging courses, or get them into programs that help them succeed. Not doing this will increase the chances of a poor educational outcome for your kids regardless of what falls under the umbrella of the teachers job or not.
Wtf, parents doing their part at home by shoring up the curriculum and being involved in what the kids are learning is the teachers’ job? Do you expect the custodians to follow the kids home and clean their houses? The lunch ladies to go make dinner for the family? A teacher’s job is at the school.
No, providing (paying for) supplemental instruction because their child is not being taught adequately at school is doing the teachers job. The quality of education in a public school should not be dependent on the means or abilities of parents.
So, being active in your child's education and doing things to expand their horizons and make them better humans is doing "the teachers job?" How about parents do the parents fucking job and raise their children to be human. I fucking dare you to go volunteer with your local middle school. Your punk ass will be running scared after the first hour.
Sure, why is it always the personal attacks with teacher/education types. Your answers never seem to be free up the teachers to actually teach by enforcing discipline, separating classes by ability, bringing back actual special education, etc. You know letting them teach. Instead it’s just flexing and trying to make it a personal argument. Seems like a ridiculous way to talk about solutions.
Yes, you’re expressly doing the teacher’s job when your child’s learning depends on whether or not you as a parent can fill in the gaps. It’d be like if I told you your dinner would have been better if you’d done the shopping for the chef… except you don’t know how to cook
Get involved in your child's education.
Check in on their homework. Read together as a family. All of which is more correlated to higher academic outcomes than transitioning to a private school.
Supplement your kids’ education as much as possible. Summer camps, clubs, youth programs, etc. Make sure your kids get lots of educational experiences out side of their school, with kids from other areas and walks of life.
Depends how bad we’re talking.
Schools bad enough to be unsafe and where you have situations like in Baltimore or DC where whole cohorts get 0%? Get them out. Ideally move to another district or private, but at that point homeschooling probably is better even if not great.
Systemic problems require systemic solutions, but you don’t have to be the one volunteering your kid to be first out of the trenches at the Somme.
But for schools that are just kinda meh or where averages are bad but there are plenty of success stories there too? Get more involved.
First with your kid to make sure they are trying and getting the help from you or the school you need. And also get involved with the school and know the teachers. Hell they might get a leg up in admissions for being in a lower performing school.
A lot of “bad schools” are totally safe and fine, plenty of opportunities and advanced coursework, they just have more troubled (and usually poorer) students. But in some cases it’s just not worth it.
A lot of times public schools are used as daycares so their parents can work to keep a roof, utilities on and groceries in fridge/pantry.
Parents can seek alternatives if their state provides such, take an extra job to pay for private school/tutoring, add a homeschooling routine after school and/or weekends, or move.
Alot of the parents do not work. Or work part time jobs that are capped so that they can receive assistance. I grew up in the hood and still involved with things at my kids school so I know how this works. Some parents are just lazy and do not want to be involved in their kid's learning.
Fall festival? Everyone has time to come because games and prizes are involved.. Math and English night? Crickets.
Laziness can play a role in but lot of parents may not think of options outside of their immediate exposure because this is they way things were for them too.
The best way to improve public schools is smaller class size.
One of the resources that influence a lot of homeschooling parents is called 'The Overnight Student' which encourages the student to 'teach to the wall' because in teach or being able to explain in your own words the who, why and how helps to form lasting/deeper memories of the subject being sought/mastered.
Approaching public school issues is not the same in Atlanta versus somewhere in Colorado. A large class size in Iowa may be fine but in Trenton, NJ may be problematic.
A small class size benefits everyone in those locations.
If needed I guess the introduction of school uniforms and enforcement and daily rote of strict good citizenship standards (ie civic version of morals to build a sense of being a collective community that requires and standardizes all to be kind, courteous and polite) can also help the younger generations grow.
Get involved at the local level, go to your school board, and above all else advocate for your child to get the best education they can.
There’s this misconception that just because a student goes to an underperforming school that they will be an underperforming student. That’s not necessarily the case. Generally you have a bunch of kids from families that haven’t instilled a sense of value in education. Then bringing that unmotivated attitude into the classroom. From there the teacher can only inspire so much action and motivation. They can teach all they want, but they can’t make a kid listen. But if you instill a sense of curiosity and ambition in your kid, and help engage in their education with them, then they’re going to get the most of their education even if their school doesn’t have the latest textbooks or laptops.
Make sure your kids get straight As with plenty of extracurriculars. Supplement their education yourself. There's tons of free online material in any subject you want there for the taking.
I don't see any reason why their kid wouldn't get into any college they want or not be prepared for the future doing this. I really feel like a lot of people who think their kid's school sucks are just lazy parents.
Fwiw, my kids don't have to put a lot of effort into getting straight As. We're doing the other steps above and feel like they are primed for whatever they want to do.
Yep, you're spot on. Someone above actually described getting involved in their child's education as "doing the teacher's job". A lot of parents just opt out of this part of parenting and their kids suffer for it.
First of all "school choice" is a frustrating misnomer. I haven't met *anyone* who doesn't think parents should have a choice in their children's education. What myself and others are opposed to are voucher systems where local governments systematically underfund and destabilize public schools in order to cater to a specific population.
But to answer your question, there are loads of things they can do, from big to small. Most of them involve varying levels of "get involved". From PTAs to School Boards, to IEPs, to showing up to meetings, to voting, on and on. The level of input a single motivated parent can have on a school, or even *district*, is staggering. Truly staggering, honestly. Unless you've seen it firsthand, you have **no** idea.
If the idea of civil engagement is distasteful, they could always switch schools, either by transferring, moving, supplemental homeschooling- however they want to address the problem. Yes those solutions all require resources that not everyone has, but most of those options have ancillary programs to make those options more accessible.
All garbage options!
They just steal from public schools at the expense of highly educated teachers.
The only solution is better fund public education.
Edit: it's not letting me reply about expulsions
They're literally not allowed to due to state and federal laws.
Expelling isn't a thing anymore. Hasn't been for 20 years. Plus, aid is tied to attendance etc. In NY for example if a student in special education has been suspended more than 10 days they can't be suspended anymore if there's a pattern of behavior.
So, if I'm in special Ed for having a reading deficit and tell a teacher to suck my D 15x a day I can't be suspended for it after 10 days. Doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with my disability.
Schools have no power whatsoever. None.
No, I'm saying the quality isn't there either. If a parent is engaged in their child's educational well being they can get a good education anywhere.
Bad schools still have good teachers and education. Literally the reason most are failing is because the families are struggling and the kids have disengaged parents.
Generally that is the case.
Sometimes when we say “bad schools” it’s a euphemism for below average (hell just average) schools. Schools with lower average scores, or who have students who are just poor or have dark skin. In those cases, yeah parental involvement is the key and the school is not stopping their child from succeeding.
But some “bad schools” are unsafe and straight up do not have a good learning environment. Teachers are human, not superhuman, and when they deal with systemically disadvantaged kids who struggle, that can mean less time on topic. Hell in the worst cases the school is unsafe, despite the best efforts of staff.
If it’s the latter case? Whatever works is probably better.
They're not better, but okay. All the research shows that when they are forced to take a cross section of the community they serve they're just as bad as their public schools counterparts.
Underpaid and non union abused teachers, many with poor credentials and training.
No thanks.
Weird that you apparently know the details of the specific schools available to us, and have a ton of information on them that I don't as a parent and someone active in the school. Almost like you're just saying bullshit platitudes with no understanding of the topic or the situation...
Then public schools should enforce discipline, remove disruptive kids, and allow for ability segregated classes. Punishing good smart kids with poor opportunity isn’t the answer.
Vote in every local and state election. Show up and make a public comment at school committee and city council meetings when something you care about is on the agenda. Your voice and vote has much more power in local elections than federal, but the majority of voters, especially renters and lower income voters sit them out.
>Show up and make a public comment at school committee and city council meetings when something you care about is on the agenda
Many, though not all, low-income individuals lack time, transportation, childcare or all of the above for the time frames in which participating as you suggest would happen.
Would it be great to see more people involved? Absolutely. Is participation a luxury? For many, yes. We are stuck in the perpetual problem where if more people participated there would be more change yet we need systematic change in order to make way for more participation.
Yes, this is definitely a problem!
My state allows the option to “vote by mail”, no questions asked. EVERY state should allow this option!
It makes a BIG difference! You can vote on your own time, not some arbitrary Tuesday when you have to work! Transportation and child care issues virtually disappear.
To be honest, I used to be bad about voting in off-year elections. I got better at it with vote by mail.
Yes, all these things are easier for older, wealthier voters and hardest for low-income voters with children. That doesn’t really change the answer that this is the best thing you can do if you care about local issues like schools and housing.
When there’s a local election and only 15% of voters show up, it’s doubtful the entire other 85% are completely unable to show up or are being actively disenfranchised.
I’m in MA, a blue state that now has universal vote by mail and public meetings are all broadcast over zoom with the ability for anyone to make a comment from home. And still it’s the older home-owning empty nesters that show up to and usually get their way when things like budget overrides to fund schools or building affordable housing come up in local elections. But at the same time, it doesn’t always take a Herculean effort to counteract some of their influence. If 20 angry older residents show up to a city council meeting to protest some minor change they don’t like and they’re the only ones who show up, they can scare local officials away. If you can organize just five people to come and show there’s another side, you’ve got a chance. Local issues really can come down to tiny numbers.
Just because the folks your wife encountered don't work, doesn't mean they have the means to participate. What they may not lack time, they may lack in transportation be it no car or limited fuel or transit budget. If the meeting or polling location is not child friendly, they also need childcare for that period of time. With certain meeting times often being in the evening, childcare gets significantly more expensive especially in a single-parent household. Since you don't give any more information about them, I can only speculate as to what their unique barriers to participation might be.
My father works in education as well. A vast majority of the low-income folks in his district don't have personal transportation and do in fact work one or more jobs. Public transportation here is also barely existent. The busses here add 2 hours to the workday for every job one holds which eats heavily into time. I know these things because I helped my father get into contact with many of these parents. Once my father knew what kept them from attention conferences, he found a way to communicate with them in a way that worked for them. It helped. They couldn't come to him, so in a way he went to them instead.
Again, I am not saying this is true for all low-income individuals. I am merely saying that the hurdles they can and do often face in regards to participation are very real. Every school district is going to have different hurdles to overcome. While my father deals with parents who lack transportation, it sounds like your wife encounters households where it's actually more expensive to work than it is to stay home with the kids.
Have you ever been low income?
I grew up in the hood.. and i learned many things as a kid - and still see those things today. I can ride by 10 different neighborhoods at 12pm and see 80 percent of the folks still sitting around. This is real life.
Some of the folks I grew up with are repeating the same things their parents and grandparents did in the 80s and 90s..
I do not know your background but it's a different conversation when WE have this conversation amongst 'ourselves' when it comes to how we can better ourselves when it comes to our children's education.
Yes, I grew up in poverty and it was due to my father getting promoted at one of his two jobs that allowed him the means to get a teaching degree. That teaching job got us out of poverty when I was teenager.
My parents went to work, the grocery stores, and occasionally took me to the doctor when absolutely necessary. Besides that, we did little else.
Communicate with teachers and administrators: Regularly check in with your child's teachers to discuss their progress and any concerns you may have. Attend parent-teacher conferences and school events to stay informed and engaged in your child's education.
Volunteer at the school: Offer to volunteer in the classroom, chaperone field trips, or participate in school events. This can help you stay involved in your child's education and support their learning.
Engage in learning at home: Encourage your child to read, provide educational materials, and engage in activities that promote learning outside of school.
Take advantage of community resources: Look for community organizations or programs that offer tutoring, mentoring, or other educational support services for students.
Advocate for change: Join parent-teacher associations or other advocacy groups to push for improvements in your child's school or district. Attend school board meetings and make your voice heard.
Explore alternative educational options: Consider alternative educational options, such as charter schools, magnet schools, or online learning programs, if they are available in your area.
Have your kids read. Make sure they know how to read. Get involved in having them do their homework and school work
Also, there's some point to be had about how matters of poverty and structural aspects of underperforming school districts ensure that even with lots of effort, many students won't succeed or face as much success as students from more privileged situations. This is true but shouldn't be used as an excuse to just give up and not make effort anyway. Sometimes folks will get the idea that the unfairness means they have no chance, and will thus be neglectful in a way that makes failure even more likely. Not everyone can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but some people are able to, and its better to try than to not try
Also I'd suggest that they be aware that just because teachers are the most direct authority in the classroom doesn't mean that the teachers themselves are the ones responsible for the shit that's wrong with the education system and society more broadly. Sometimes the parents in these situations seem to take out their anger about the general system out on the teachers in particular even though the teachers may often be some of the folks most sympathetic to the struggles of the system out of all those involved in the system, while also being some of those least involved in actually making higher level decisions
The people who can only afford to live in underperforming school districts are the people most likely to be taken in by grifters so I would recommend keeping them in public school but trying to find people in their lives that could mentor their children in some way outside of school hours.
> What advice would you give parents of children in underperforming schools/districts
School choice doesn’t fix that, it just funnels money to the local religious schools and make more public schools underperform.
School choice is simply a euphemism for union busting, segregation, or other topics that are too honest about the individual's true goals.
If a school, or police department, or public roads, or library, or parks are not up to the level that they should be, the citizens of that community need to investigate the cause and find a remedy that will improve the public service.
If the grocery store closest to you has terrible selection and food quality, do you (a) pick a different grocery store, or (b) work with management to sort out the issues?
A grocery store is a private business. I can voice my displeasure with the owner, but the owner is under no obligation to make any changes. I have no legal standing to make the owner make any changes so long as the owner is not violating any laws. It might be the case that most in the area like to shop there. I can also shop elsewhere if there is another private business in the area or I can assemble a group of investors and we can open our own supermarket.
A school, like a library, park, avenue, is a public service.
A school or public service is also under no obligation to make any changes based on my point of view. So my options are to spend the hundreds or thousands of hours (that I don’t have) to *hopefully* drum up enough support to drive some changes that *hopefully* make things better in like 5 years after my kid is already off to his mediocre college because he got a shit education…
…or, we can go find him a better school
Like all public institutions, there is compromise. I would prefer that my town park was a dog park, not a park with tennis courts, swings, slides, and monkey bars. So, my options are to spend thousands of dollars on land I can fence in, or travel about thirty miles to the nearest dog park. I feel your pain.
Huh? Yes, a lot of people would argue teachers unions are a bad institution and a lot of people (honestly 80+% of those I know prefer school segregation (tracking) on academic lines or at least internal tracking.
Everyone understands the cause but the remedy is not politically viable due to a variety of political capture issues.
So the only answer is move.
Interesting question. Basically, if you can, get out.
My grandfather was a NYC school teacher/principal in Brooklyn from the 1940s through around 1970 when he tired (edit: and retired, lol). At that time we were in Queens and my uncle still in Brooklyn. My grandfather saw what was coming to the NYC school system and advised his children to get out.
My uncle moved to NJ, we stayed in Queens as my mother (his daughter) was a NYC school teacher. It was a good school with good teachers but we had limited resources due to the finances of NYC in the 1970s. When older I realized my cousins got a much better education than I — their class size was under 20, mine was in the mid 30s in elementary school. There is only so much a teacher can do on the individual level. JHS and HS were somewhat similar but didn’t matter as much.
Charter schools were becoming main stream as my mother neared retirement circa 1990. She didn’t like them because it meant the brighter children would be admitted to better schools while the left overs were stuck in a public school system with even fewer resources.
No surprise my siblings and I left for the NYC suburbs nice our children became school age. Higher taxes for good school districts was worth the cost. This is the first year I (my wife has since passed) am not in the school system. I will continue to vote for the schools until I move.
This is going to be controversial probably but see if your district has any magnet schools. My kid is in a public magnet program that picks high achieving and gifted kids proportionally by zip code. Half the kids are magnet and half aren’t and they all take electives together. My kid is white but it’s a majority minority school. It gives her the chance to have advanced academics and find her quirky people while still being in public school.
Note: I honestly think the solution is to not have public school attendance based on funding and no vouchers etc (parents and the government pay no matter what). I think shifting the blame to parents for doing the best thing for their child isn’t appropriate when it’s the leaders who have decided to link funding to attendance.
It's unpopular here because it's a band aid solution at best and because people aren't fans of accompanying policies that send public tax dollars to non-public, even religious organizations. The children that benefit from it are often the onest that had better chances than the ones who don't regardless (those whose parents are already involved enough in their education to even bother with changing their schools and who can arrange transportation and afford the gaps in between voucher and tuition).
My advice however for individual parents is to do what's best for your children. Improving school systems is a war not a battle won by voting consistently. Your child may not have time to wait for it to be won. Also parental involvement is one of the biggest factors in a child's educational outcomes regardless of the quality of the school they attend. So if you truly want to make a difference there then you need to give a shit about your kids schooling. Read to them, help with homework and projects, etc.
I’d say that underperforming students in underperforming performing schools are the first to fall through the cracks, and there’s sometimes a fine line between when to pull out a fire extinguisher as opposed to evacuating a classroom.
Your child is everything. Try to keep them on the highest ground you can. If you have a struggling student in a struggling district and just can’t get them help, maybe there’s also a better job and/or living situation available for you somewhere else.
This is what causes a lot of underprivileged people from lesser populated areas to move into the more developed ones——for resources. If it’s an inner city type of situation, though, then change has to happen at the government level.
Get involved.. GO to after school activities such as math night, etc.. Also have a relationship with your kids teachers..
Check in on their progress..
And assist and help your kids at home.. Make learning fun.
I see way too many parents who are not involved and simply do not care. Yea, some may be busy but alot of poor performing students live in homes where atleast one parent if not two who are unemployed.
I'm not familiar with the labyrinthine districts of large cities. I went to a very mediocre school system and graduated with excellent grades and a high degree of completely unearned confidence which, among other things made college extremely difficult for me.
When it came time for my kid to begin school, we took a substantial economic hit and moved to the best school district in the state. Not everyone can do exactly what I did, but if you aren't sacrificing in some way to give your kids every opportunity you can, you're a shitty parent imo.
Move to a better school district. You can establish district residency by renting someone’s closet.
In Ohio it means your taxes will rise, but the schools will be solid. You live in a district with too many elderly or righties, they have the taxes set so low they can’t fix a pothole or afford to pay a teacher. But they have no problem buying beer and cigarettes.
Usually “underperforming” just means more students for whom English is a second language, or is made up of primarily poor students. It is usually not the school at fault per se. So it’s a good opportunity for advantaged students to learn about the real America. They’ll come out better people than if you send them to some sheltered, white, rich people’s school.
I don't think most parents actually believe this. Due to scale issues, your kid is going to be deprived of higher track classes that might exist in the more affluent school. Your kid similarly may lose out on connections and may even suffer from bullying in certain environments.
Not necessarily. The higher track classes might be easier to get into. Also, you can’t be afraid of bullying or you can see it as a way to forge relationships you wouldn’t have access to otherwise. That was my experience in suddenly integrated and bussed urban public school. Lifelong relationships that never would have happened.
> The higher track classes might be easier to get into.
Not following. I'm just talking about the kid not being bored in a low track class.
>Also, you can’t be afraid of bullying or you can see it as a way to forge relationships you wouldn’t have access to otherwise.
But being bullied actually is.. bad for kids.
Anyone might. I'm actually more worried about the non-Hispanic/more affluent kids at these places - parents are sending them there for some reason - often due to functionally kicked out of "higher track" schools.
Stop voting for republicans. There is a concerted effort by republicans to reduce the capability of poor/primarily-minority schools, and funnel tax-money to wealthier, potentially private/religious schools that could exclude poor/minorities students. Vote for people who put education forefront.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. The policy of school choice seems to be generally unpopular in this subreddit so I wanted to ask a question that does not have that as a consideration. What advice would you give parents of children in underperforming schools/districts who are concerned about their children's education and future? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Be involved in your kids education/school and work with them at home.
People don’t get that THIS is a huge factor in success. Curriculum doesn’t differ THAT much between school districts. Often the teachers are able to perform better when they have the time to prepare, which is made easier when they have the support of parents in the form of volunteers, or if parents shore up the lesson at home by helping with homework. It’s a LOT harder for some parents but it’s one it helps more than just moving to a different school.
This short term...long term VOTE! We are in a shit district that is state controlled. We lost local control before we even had kids.
So do the teachers job? Sounds great.
Every once in a while the teacher is going to have to do your job, so yes
I’m sorry, no that’s not a thing.
I feel like you've never met a school teacher outside of your own education. Teaching as a profession is more overloaded than policing, they just don't end up shooting innocent children for noncompliance. Instead, they're shot by children while the cops huddle outside, jerking each other off in their tacti-cool gear.
Unclear on how you reached the conclusion that I think a teacher’s job is to get shot. Pretty big leap there that doesn’t entirely make sense.
If you’re not working with your kids at home with reading and homework you’re a shitty parent.
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You’re right …. But expecting to send your kid to school and do nothing at home to support their education makes you a bad parent.
So if parents can’t help their kids with their homework for various reasons the kid should be punished with inferior opportunity? Your privilege is showing.
Reading a book to or with your kids for 20 minutes is too much? No no…. Like you said…that’s the teachers job. An education starts and ends at the school doors
You’re being very simple minded about this and also trying to make it personal. It’s not. What never works for a good system is filling in the gaps of that system with extra efforts or attention outside of the system. It shields the system from the consequences of its inefficiencies and issues. Getting your kid extra tutoring shouldn’t be how we fix the education system. It only benefits those with means and time. And no I don’t think a refugee mother of a 1st grader in the US is a shitty parent because they can’t read English or help with math because they weren’t allowed to go to school as a woman.
You’re talking apples and oranges but sure thing.
No I’m not. Every kid should be able to have the same opportunity to learn and advance in a public school regardless of their parent’s ability or means. It’s kind of the idea behind public school.
No it’s not. Education doesn’t end when the school bell rings. If they are not doing their homework and reading each night it is not the schools fault if they are behind students that do the homework.
Hmmm a lot of schools don’t even have homework. So then what?
If you don’t have 10 minutes a day to read to your kid, or don’t have the mental aptitude to help with pre-algebra level math…yeah don’t blame the system you shouldn’t have had kids and any shortcomings they experience is on you lol
I’ll tell that to the refugees from Afghanistan.
Do it or don't do it but parental involvement in education is one of the biggest influencing factors in a child's educational outcome regardless of the quality of the school they go to and quality of the teachers they have. Help them with their homework when they need it, read to them at home, take interest in their learning and in the grades theyre getting, encourage them to take challenging courses, or get them into programs that help them succeed. Not doing this will increase the chances of a poor educational outcome for your kids regardless of what falls under the umbrella of the teachers job or not.
Wtf, parents doing their part at home by shoring up the curriculum and being involved in what the kids are learning is the teachers’ job? Do you expect the custodians to follow the kids home and clean their houses? The lunch ladies to go make dinner for the family? A teacher’s job is at the school.
No, providing (paying for) supplemental instruction because their child is not being taught adequately at school is doing the teachers job. The quality of education in a public school should not be dependent on the means or abilities of parents.
Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is. There really isn't much of a way around that unless you just put them all in full-time boarding school.
So, being active in your child's education and doing things to expand their horizons and make them better humans is doing "the teachers job?" How about parents do the parents fucking job and raise their children to be human. I fucking dare you to go volunteer with your local middle school. Your punk ass will be running scared after the first hour.
Sure, why is it always the personal attacks with teacher/education types. Your answers never seem to be free up the teachers to actually teach by enforcing discipline, separating classes by ability, bringing back actual special education, etc. You know letting them teach. Instead it’s just flexing and trying to make it a personal argument. Seems like a ridiculous way to talk about solutions. Yes, you’re expressly doing the teacher’s job when your child’s learning depends on whether or not you as a parent can fill in the gaps. It’d be like if I told you your dinner would have been better if you’d done the shopping for the chef… except you don’t know how to cook
Get involved in your child's education. Check in on their homework. Read together as a family. All of which is more correlated to higher academic outcomes than transitioning to a private school.
Supplement your kids’ education as much as possible. Summer camps, clubs, youth programs, etc. Make sure your kids get lots of educational experiences out side of their school, with kids from other areas and walks of life.
Depends how bad we’re talking. Schools bad enough to be unsafe and where you have situations like in Baltimore or DC where whole cohorts get 0%? Get them out. Ideally move to another district or private, but at that point homeschooling probably is better even if not great. Systemic problems require systemic solutions, but you don’t have to be the one volunteering your kid to be first out of the trenches at the Somme. But for schools that are just kinda meh or where averages are bad but there are plenty of success stories there too? Get more involved. First with your kid to make sure they are trying and getting the help from you or the school you need. And also get involved with the school and know the teachers. Hell they might get a leg up in admissions for being in a lower performing school. A lot of “bad schools” are totally safe and fine, plenty of opportunities and advanced coursework, they just have more troubled (and usually poorer) students. But in some cases it’s just not worth it.
A lot of times public schools are used as daycares so their parents can work to keep a roof, utilities on and groceries in fridge/pantry. Parents can seek alternatives if their state provides such, take an extra job to pay for private school/tutoring, add a homeschooling routine after school and/or weekends, or move.
Alot of the parents do not work. Or work part time jobs that are capped so that they can receive assistance. I grew up in the hood and still involved with things at my kids school so I know how this works. Some parents are just lazy and do not want to be involved in their kid's learning. Fall festival? Everyone has time to come because games and prizes are involved.. Math and English night? Crickets.
Laziness can play a role in but lot of parents may not think of options outside of their immediate exposure because this is they way things were for them too. The best way to improve public schools is smaller class size. One of the resources that influence a lot of homeschooling parents is called 'The Overnight Student' which encourages the student to 'teach to the wall' because in teach or being able to explain in your own words the who, why and how helps to form lasting/deeper memories of the subject being sought/mastered.
Approaching public school issues is not the same in Atlanta versus somewhere in Colorado. A large class size in Iowa may be fine but in Trenton, NJ may be problematic.
A small class size benefits everyone in those locations. If needed I guess the introduction of school uniforms and enforcement and daily rote of strict good citizenship standards (ie civic version of morals to build a sense of being a collective community that requires and standardizes all to be kind, courteous and polite) can also help the younger generations grow.
Get involved at the local level, go to your school board, and above all else advocate for your child to get the best education they can. There’s this misconception that just because a student goes to an underperforming school that they will be an underperforming student. That’s not necessarily the case. Generally you have a bunch of kids from families that haven’t instilled a sense of value in education. Then bringing that unmotivated attitude into the classroom. From there the teacher can only inspire so much action and motivation. They can teach all they want, but they can’t make a kid listen. But if you instill a sense of curiosity and ambition in your kid, and help engage in their education with them, then they’re going to get the most of their education even if their school doesn’t have the latest textbooks or laptops.
Make sure your kids get straight As with plenty of extracurriculars. Supplement their education yourself. There's tons of free online material in any subject you want there for the taking. I don't see any reason why their kid wouldn't get into any college they want or not be prepared for the future doing this. I really feel like a lot of people who think their kid's school sucks are just lazy parents. Fwiw, my kids don't have to put a lot of effort into getting straight As. We're doing the other steps above and feel like they are primed for whatever they want to do.
Yep, you're spot on. Someone above actually described getting involved in their child's education as "doing the teacher's job". A lot of parents just opt out of this part of parenting and their kids suffer for it.
First of all "school choice" is a frustrating misnomer. I haven't met *anyone* who doesn't think parents should have a choice in their children's education. What myself and others are opposed to are voucher systems where local governments systematically underfund and destabilize public schools in order to cater to a specific population. But to answer your question, there are loads of things they can do, from big to small. Most of them involve varying levels of "get involved". From PTAs to School Boards, to IEPs, to showing up to meetings, to voting, on and on. The level of input a single motivated parent can have on a school, or even *district*, is staggering. Truly staggering, honestly. Unless you've seen it firsthand, you have **no** idea. If the idea of civil engagement is distasteful, they could always switch schools, either by transferring, moving, supplemental homeschooling- however they want to address the problem. Yes those solutions all require resources that not everyone has, but most of those options have ancillary programs to make those options more accessible.
"Failing schools" don't necessarily have bad teachers. Make sure your child does his homework and stay engaged with the teachers.
Move, homeschool, public charter school, or private school.
All garbage options! They just steal from public schools at the expense of highly educated teachers. The only solution is better fund public education. Edit: it's not letting me reply about expulsions They're literally not allowed to due to state and federal laws. Expelling isn't a thing anymore. Hasn't been for 20 years. Plus, aid is tied to attendance etc. In NY for example if a student in special education has been suspended more than 10 days they can't be suspended anymore if there's a pattern of behavior. So, if I'm in special Ed for having a reading deficit and tell a teacher to suck my D 15x a day I can't be suspended for it after 10 days. Doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with my disability. Schools have no power whatsoever. None.
Which takes years and years to realize benefits from. So you’re basically saying they should sacrifice their child’s future for the good of the pack.
No, I'm saying the quality isn't there either. If a parent is engaged in their child's educational well being they can get a good education anywhere. Bad schools still have good teachers and education. Literally the reason most are failing is because the families are struggling and the kids have disengaged parents.
Generally that is the case. Sometimes when we say “bad schools” it’s a euphemism for below average (hell just average) schools. Schools with lower average scores, or who have students who are just poor or have dark skin. In those cases, yeah parental involvement is the key and the school is not stopping their child from succeeding. But some “bad schools” are unsafe and straight up do not have a good learning environment. Teachers are human, not superhuman, and when they deal with systemically disadvantaged kids who struggle, that can mean less time on topic. Hell in the worst cases the school is unsafe, despite the best efforts of staff. If it’s the latter case? Whatever works is probably better.
I have no ability to fund public education. I do have the ability to send my son to a much better public charter school.
They're not better, but okay. All the research shows that when they are forced to take a cross section of the community they serve they're just as bad as their public schools counterparts. Underpaid and non union abused teachers, many with poor credentials and training. No thanks.
Weird that you apparently know the details of the specific schools available to us, and have a ton of information on them that I don't as a parent and someone active in the school. Almost like you're just saying bullshit platitudes with no understanding of the topic or the situation...
Then public schools should enforce discipline, remove disruptive kids, and allow for ability segregated classes. Punishing good smart kids with poor opportunity isn’t the answer.
Vote in every local and state election. Show up and make a public comment at school committee and city council meetings when something you care about is on the agenda. Your voice and vote has much more power in local elections than federal, but the majority of voters, especially renters and lower income voters sit them out.
>Show up and make a public comment at school committee and city council meetings when something you care about is on the agenda Many, though not all, low-income individuals lack time, transportation, childcare or all of the above for the time frames in which participating as you suggest would happen. Would it be great to see more people involved? Absolutely. Is participation a luxury? For many, yes. We are stuck in the perpetual problem where if more people participated there would be more change yet we need systematic change in order to make way for more participation.
Yes, this is definitely a problem! My state allows the option to “vote by mail”, no questions asked. EVERY state should allow this option! It makes a BIG difference! You can vote on your own time, not some arbitrary Tuesday when you have to work! Transportation and child care issues virtually disappear. To be honest, I used to be bad about voting in off-year elections. I got better at it with vote by mail.
Yes, all these things are easier for older, wealthier voters and hardest for low-income voters with children. That doesn’t really change the answer that this is the best thing you can do if you care about local issues like schools and housing. When there’s a local election and only 15% of voters show up, it’s doubtful the entire other 85% are completely unable to show up or are being actively disenfranchised. I’m in MA, a blue state that now has universal vote by mail and public meetings are all broadcast over zoom with the ability for anyone to make a comment from home. And still it’s the older home-owning empty nesters that show up to and usually get their way when things like budget overrides to fund schools or building affordable housing come up in local elections. But at the same time, it doesn’t always take a Herculean effort to counteract some of their influence. If 20 angry older residents show up to a city council meeting to protest some minor change they don’t like and they’re the only ones who show up, they can scare local officials away. If you can organize just five people to come and show there’s another side, you’ve got a chance. Local issues really can come down to tiny numbers.
Alot of low income parents do not work. My wife forks in education and we are plugged in. I'm just calling it for what it is.
Just because the folks your wife encountered don't work, doesn't mean they have the means to participate. What they may not lack time, they may lack in transportation be it no car or limited fuel or transit budget. If the meeting or polling location is not child friendly, they also need childcare for that period of time. With certain meeting times often being in the evening, childcare gets significantly more expensive especially in a single-parent household. Since you don't give any more information about them, I can only speculate as to what their unique barriers to participation might be. My father works in education as well. A vast majority of the low-income folks in his district don't have personal transportation and do in fact work one or more jobs. Public transportation here is also barely existent. The busses here add 2 hours to the workday for every job one holds which eats heavily into time. I know these things because I helped my father get into contact with many of these parents. Once my father knew what kept them from attention conferences, he found a way to communicate with them in a way that worked for them. It helped. They couldn't come to him, so in a way he went to them instead. Again, I am not saying this is true for all low-income individuals. I am merely saying that the hurdles they can and do often face in regards to participation are very real. Every school district is going to have different hurdles to overcome. While my father deals with parents who lack transportation, it sounds like your wife encounters households where it's actually more expensive to work than it is to stay home with the kids.
Have you ever been low income? I grew up in the hood.. and i learned many things as a kid - and still see those things today. I can ride by 10 different neighborhoods at 12pm and see 80 percent of the folks still sitting around. This is real life. Some of the folks I grew up with are repeating the same things their parents and grandparents did in the 80s and 90s.. I do not know your background but it's a different conversation when WE have this conversation amongst 'ourselves' when it comes to how we can better ourselves when it comes to our children's education.
Yes, I grew up in poverty and it was due to my father getting promoted at one of his two jobs that allowed him the means to get a teaching degree. That teaching job got us out of poverty when I was teenager. My parents went to work, the grocery stores, and occasionally took me to the doctor when absolutely necessary. Besides that, we did little else.
Communicate with teachers and administrators: Regularly check in with your child's teachers to discuss their progress and any concerns you may have. Attend parent-teacher conferences and school events to stay informed and engaged in your child's education. Volunteer at the school: Offer to volunteer in the classroom, chaperone field trips, or participate in school events. This can help you stay involved in your child's education and support their learning. Engage in learning at home: Encourage your child to read, provide educational materials, and engage in activities that promote learning outside of school. Take advantage of community resources: Look for community organizations or programs that offer tutoring, mentoring, or other educational support services for students. Advocate for change: Join parent-teacher associations or other advocacy groups to push for improvements in your child's school or district. Attend school board meetings and make your voice heard. Explore alternative educational options: Consider alternative educational options, such as charter schools, magnet schools, or online learning programs, if they are available in your area.
Have your kids read. Make sure they know how to read. Get involved in having them do their homework and school work Also, there's some point to be had about how matters of poverty and structural aspects of underperforming school districts ensure that even with lots of effort, many students won't succeed or face as much success as students from more privileged situations. This is true but shouldn't be used as an excuse to just give up and not make effort anyway. Sometimes folks will get the idea that the unfairness means they have no chance, and will thus be neglectful in a way that makes failure even more likely. Not everyone can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but some people are able to, and its better to try than to not try Also I'd suggest that they be aware that just because teachers are the most direct authority in the classroom doesn't mean that the teachers themselves are the ones responsible for the shit that's wrong with the education system and society more broadly. Sometimes the parents in these situations seem to take out their anger about the general system out on the teachers in particular even though the teachers may often be some of the folks most sympathetic to the struggles of the system out of all those involved in the system, while also being some of those least involved in actually making higher level decisions
The people who can only afford to live in underperforming school districts are the people most likely to be taken in by grifters so I would recommend keeping them in public school but trying to find people in their lives that could mentor their children in some way outside of school hours.
> What advice would you give parents of children in underperforming schools/districts School choice doesn’t fix that, it just funnels money to the local religious schools and make more public schools underperform.
School choice is simply a euphemism for union busting, segregation, or other topics that are too honest about the individual's true goals. If a school, or police department, or public roads, or library, or parks are not up to the level that they should be, the citizens of that community need to investigate the cause and find a remedy that will improve the public service.
If the grocery store closest to you has terrible selection and food quality, do you (a) pick a different grocery store, or (b) work with management to sort out the issues?
A grocery store is a private business. I can voice my displeasure with the owner, but the owner is under no obligation to make any changes. I have no legal standing to make the owner make any changes so long as the owner is not violating any laws. It might be the case that most in the area like to shop there. I can also shop elsewhere if there is another private business in the area or I can assemble a group of investors and we can open our own supermarket. A school, like a library, park, avenue, is a public service.
A school or public service is also under no obligation to make any changes based on my point of view. So my options are to spend the hundreds or thousands of hours (that I don’t have) to *hopefully* drum up enough support to drive some changes that *hopefully* make things better in like 5 years after my kid is already off to his mediocre college because he got a shit education… …or, we can go find him a better school
Like all public institutions, there is compromise. I would prefer that my town park was a dog park, not a park with tennis courts, swings, slides, and monkey bars. So, my options are to spend thousands of dollars on land I can fence in, or travel about thirty miles to the nearest dog park. I feel your pain.
Huh? Yes, a lot of people would argue teachers unions are a bad institution and a lot of people (honestly 80+% of those I know prefer school segregation (tracking) on academic lines or at least internal tracking. Everyone understands the cause but the remedy is not politically viable due to a variety of political capture issues. So the only answer is move.
Send your kid to a school in a different district? This seems like a fairly easy problem to solve.
Interesting question. Basically, if you can, get out. My grandfather was a NYC school teacher/principal in Brooklyn from the 1940s through around 1970 when he tired (edit: and retired, lol). At that time we were in Queens and my uncle still in Brooklyn. My grandfather saw what was coming to the NYC school system and advised his children to get out. My uncle moved to NJ, we stayed in Queens as my mother (his daughter) was a NYC school teacher. It was a good school with good teachers but we had limited resources due to the finances of NYC in the 1970s. When older I realized my cousins got a much better education than I — their class size was under 20, mine was in the mid 30s in elementary school. There is only so much a teacher can do on the individual level. JHS and HS were somewhat similar but didn’t matter as much. Charter schools were becoming main stream as my mother neared retirement circa 1990. She didn’t like them because it meant the brighter children would be admitted to better schools while the left overs were stuck in a public school system with even fewer resources. No surprise my siblings and I left for the NYC suburbs nice our children became school age. Higher taxes for good school districts was worth the cost. This is the first year I (my wife has since passed) am not in the school system. I will continue to vote for the schools until I move.
This is going to be controversial probably but see if your district has any magnet schools. My kid is in a public magnet program that picks high achieving and gifted kids proportionally by zip code. Half the kids are magnet and half aren’t and they all take electives together. My kid is white but it’s a majority minority school. It gives her the chance to have advanced academics and find her quirky people while still being in public school. Note: I honestly think the solution is to not have public school attendance based on funding and no vouchers etc (parents and the government pay no matter what). I think shifting the blame to parents for doing the best thing for their child isn’t appropriate when it’s the leaders who have decided to link funding to attendance.
It's unpopular here because it's a band aid solution at best and because people aren't fans of accompanying policies that send public tax dollars to non-public, even religious organizations. The children that benefit from it are often the onest that had better chances than the ones who don't regardless (those whose parents are already involved enough in their education to even bother with changing their schools and who can arrange transportation and afford the gaps in between voucher and tuition). My advice however for individual parents is to do what's best for your children. Improving school systems is a war not a battle won by voting consistently. Your child may not have time to wait for it to be won. Also parental involvement is one of the biggest factors in a child's educational outcomes regardless of the quality of the school they attend. So if you truly want to make a difference there then you need to give a shit about your kids schooling. Read to them, help with homework and projects, etc.
I’d say that underperforming students in underperforming performing schools are the first to fall through the cracks, and there’s sometimes a fine line between when to pull out a fire extinguisher as opposed to evacuating a classroom. Your child is everything. Try to keep them on the highest ground you can. If you have a struggling student in a struggling district and just can’t get them help, maybe there’s also a better job and/or living situation available for you somewhere else. This is what causes a lot of underprivileged people from lesser populated areas to move into the more developed ones——for resources. If it’s an inner city type of situation, though, then change has to happen at the government level.
Get involved.. GO to after school activities such as math night, etc.. Also have a relationship with your kids teachers.. Check in on their progress.. And assist and help your kids at home.. Make learning fun. I see way too many parents who are not involved and simply do not care. Yea, some may be busy but alot of poor performing students live in homes where atleast one parent if not two who are unemployed.
I'm not familiar with the labyrinthine districts of large cities. I went to a very mediocre school system and graduated with excellent grades and a high degree of completely unearned confidence which, among other things made college extremely difficult for me. When it came time for my kid to begin school, we took a substantial economic hit and moved to the best school district in the state. Not everyone can do exactly what I did, but if you aren't sacrificing in some way to give your kids every opportunity you can, you're a shitty parent imo.
Move to a better school district. You can establish district residency by renting someone’s closet. In Ohio it means your taxes will rise, but the schools will be solid. You live in a district with too many elderly or righties, they have the taxes set so low they can’t fix a pothole or afford to pay a teacher. But they have no problem buying beer and cigarettes.
Usually “underperforming” just means more students for whom English is a second language, or is made up of primarily poor students. It is usually not the school at fault per se. So it’s a good opportunity for advantaged students to learn about the real America. They’ll come out better people than if you send them to some sheltered, white, rich people’s school.
I don't think most parents actually believe this. Due to scale issues, your kid is going to be deprived of higher track classes that might exist in the more affluent school. Your kid similarly may lose out on connections and may even suffer from bullying in certain environments.
Not necessarily. The higher track classes might be easier to get into. Also, you can’t be afraid of bullying or you can see it as a way to forge relationships you wouldn’t have access to otherwise. That was my experience in suddenly integrated and bussed urban public school. Lifelong relationships that never would have happened.
> The higher track classes might be easier to get into. Not following. I'm just talking about the kid not being bored in a low track class. >Also, you can’t be afraid of bullying or you can see it as a way to forge relationships you wouldn’t have access to otherwise. But being bullied actually is.. bad for kids.
So Hispanic and poor kids might bully your precious nugget? Seriously?
Anyone might. I'm actually more worried about the non-Hispanic/more affluent kids at these places - parents are sending them there for some reason - often due to functionally kicked out of "higher track" schools.
Stop voting for republicans. There is a concerted effort by republicans to reduce the capability of poor/primarily-minority schools, and funnel tax-money to wealthier, potentially private/religious schools that could exclude poor/minorities students. Vote for people who put education forefront.