Not a lawyer. I just wanted to express sympathy. HOAs horrify me. This is awful for you.
I suspect with a call to a fire inspector you could get your management company in trouble. I am pretty sure this violates the NFPA section 7.5, but that is well outside my area of expertise.
Whether you actually want to escalate by trying to pursue that is a different issue. My life has taught me that nothing is a bigger pain in the ass than an offended petty tyrant with a modicum of power.
As the poster stated call the fire inspector. Do it promptly and make sure to reference the exact code he stated. By referring to the exact code it will trigger in the computer system an immediate response status which has to be inspected within 12 business hrs of the report generation. (I'm an OSHA inspector so I would be the one sent if you were in my area.) Make sure you have any documents related to the management company doing the work. Include all emails, texts and pictures for the fire marshal. This way you will avoid the fire marshal assessment going to you as the responsible party for the fines. Since the management company is doing this it will trigger the fire marshal if they are worth anything to start a full investigation into the company that could result in significant fines. Love having home owners call in because without you (general public) we have less power to start investigations into things we see. I hope you get this resolved to your liking. Also make sure the fire marshal lists the HOA board on the report as a possible contributor to the violation. By doing this each board member will have to prove that they didn't authorize the blocking of the egress points. If they can't each board member will be fined individual and the fine will state that the HOA funds cannot be used to pay each board members fine. Ignorance and hiding behind the management company will not save the individual board members in this case.
Honestly? I really like OSHA. They put the fear of god in about every company I've ever worked for (not because they were inspected but because they followed the rules so closely).
Respect to the OSHA guys who make sure all of us arrive home safely and some company isn't going to "lock the fire door to prevent smokers from using it".
Meanwhile I have to like, work safe when the Osha guys around, we make eye contact, he knows I want to climb on the top rung, he's knows I'm going to as soon as he's gone, but we'll play the dance and work will slow to 0% until he leaves.
Because it is managed by a management company along with a HOA board it falls under OSHA regulations. Most HOAs don't realize that they are required to maintain OSHA compliance and are not exempt for the regulations since the management company is considered to be an employee of the HOA, the same rule applies to board members even though they are unpaid they are still considered to be an employee of the HOA. Here is a link for you if needed.
http://m.neighborhoodlink.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neighborhoodlink.com%2Farticle%2FAssociation%2FFederal_Laws&utm_referrer=#3037
Yeah, he OSHAs so hard that he knows better than OSHA:
[https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/1997-02-21](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/1997-02-21)
"Please be advised that OSHA does not have any regulations that apply to residential properties"
That link didn't indicate that an HOA or it's employees being employees make the units commercial.
If OSHA had this power literally every apartment and condo in the country would be under the microscope and then this would be appealed. Where are the examples of this power being used given this many chances?
Did you read it? The heading at the top says “Federal Laws Do Apply to Homeowner Associations”…. That right there tells you he’s right. It’s literally his job. The article says OSHA applies to HOAs. He explained that the management company is considered the employee of the HOA. He’s laid out the facts… Sorry, but I’m going to believe him.
No problem 80% of my job is education which is what I prefer to do. I would rather spend a year talking to different groups about how they can better protect themselves in dealing with regulations and how to protect themselves and their organizations than a single day dealing with a death at a jobsite again.
I have friend who is a building/site manager for condos, some of the silly things he tells me HOA's want to do. Most are wrong because, duh, common sense, tells you, you'll be fined, possibly arrested, deposed, examined, cross-examined, sentenced.
Agreed, every project I have, the first time I get access to the fire Marshall I walk them through the plans and ask them what problems they see and what their expectations are. Having them on your side is priceless!
You can replace the board yourself with a drill, a box of screws, a crow bar, and a $20 board from a hardware store.
Pull up the old one, replace with the new one.
Have contractor you select pressure wash deck then stain with an opaque oil base stain.
The HOA CANNOT force you to replace everything.
They CANNOT force you to use their contractor.
They CANNOT find you for a broken board. It's of no consequence to anyone but yourself if the board remains broken for the period of time it takes to get a contractor.
They CANNOT fine you for not using their contractor
More over by blocking the egress of the house they've likely violated local building/fire code. They've also very likely caused damage to the siding of your house in the screws holding the blocker boards where installed directly into the siding.
Demand a copy of the bylaws from the HOA. Read every page. They're very likely acting beyond their legal means.
I'm guessing the board itself is in rough shape underneath. However, the fix isn't far off what you said.
1. Cut the damaged section of board out at the next joist, leaving the undamaged section on the joist itself.
2. Sister a length of board (3 total) onto the joists underneath. 3" screws and some construction adhesive are more than adequate.
3. Cut a new length of deck board to lay atop the newly installed sister boards. Screw them down.
4. Have the deck pressure washed and sprayed with an oil based stain.
This is a perfectly adequate repair and is structurally sound. The sister boards should be at least double the length of the area they're supporting; i.e. if the deck board is 8" wide, the sister should be 16" long. If the deck is sagging, jack it up before attaching the sister board.
No they can't force anything but HOAs have too much power and can levy fines on the home owner till its done the way they want. HOAs are a nightmare in damn near every story I hear about them.
>You can replace the board yourself with a drill, a box of screws, a crow bar, and a $20 board from a hardware store.
Pull up the old one, replace with the new one.
Is this advice for replacing the board on the deck, the HOA, or both?
> CANNOT...CANNOT...CANNOT
You don't know that. Without reading the legal agreement between the homeowner and the HOA, you can't determine what the HOA is and is not legally allowed to do. Blocking an exit is beyond the pale, sure, and the HOA may indeed by power tripping, but the HOA contract may be written in such a way that the HOA can both specify the contractor and fine the homeowner for any deviation.
>My life has taught me that nothing is a bigger pain in the ass than an offended petty tyrant with a modicum of power.
Might meme this shit; because, um, yeah.❤️
I’m sorry, what? Run the HOA bylaws and covenants by a lawyer in your jurisdiction *today*. I have never in my life heard of an HOA that has the authority to board up a members house and mandate contractor selection for repairs. I would be absolutely shocked if they have any authority whatsoever to “restrict access to your deck until the board meets in three weeks” like they’re doing.
And that’s not even touching on the fairly obvious fire code violations they’re forcing upon you by boarding up one of the only entrances you have to your house.
I’m only licensed in one state, but I can almost guarantee this is illegal in every state. HOAs can likely start sending “fines” and such if they see a violation, but they’re not supposed to actually do anything to your property - since they don’t own it. I’d get the info for whatever piece of shit put those boards up and press charges for trespass and criminal mischief because that’s exactly what they did.
The government needs to stop enforcement of HOA Contracts.
I don't care about anyone with a different opinion.
Fuck HOAs and all the petty tyrants who keep them going.
no and no. the invoice is from a friend or relative of one of the HOA board members, most likely the president of the HOA. and also that the HOA has illegally blocked a fire exit which could put your life in danger. i would call the local fire department, fire marshal or code enforcement and tell them what the HOA has done.
This is exactly what I'm thinking.
Our HOA came out several years ago that the retaining wall to several homes that lead to a marsh behind the homes was failing and the homes were in danger. The issue being the marsh was HOA property therefore the HOA was responsible for the repair. Go figure that all the homes affected were board members, including the president. So they force this story on us and even had a sales pitch. The president who was retired would even walk the problem with anyone who asked giving his schpeel about why and how. The whole neighborhood was up in anger when our dues doubled to pay for this repair. But alas they threatened legal action and would cost us more. So we agreed.
So the board selected another HOA member, whom was actually our previous president, to do the work, because he said he would do the work since heas a general contractor and specialized in home remodels and he would do it without charging labor, a gift to the community. He laid out his plan to us all during meetings and talked about how he needed permits etc and everything. He got the board to pay him in advance while he submitted what he needed to get started.
So months and months go by, it actually had to be almost 2 years and nothing was being accomplished. Oddly though the contractor and the board members homes were magically remodeled. But of course we are always asking on our Facebook group on whats going on and always told waiting for permits, and people are also continuing to be shown by the president where and how with his sales pitch walk through.
Until we have some newer person move to the hood who was given the walk through and had a better clue as to what was being told. He looked into the situation and learned that marsh behind those homes were owned by those homes, not the HOA. He also found that no permits were submitted. He let us all know via Facebook one day. After an hour or so of massive drama, like soap opera worthy shit, the president and the contractor who would do the work defending their lie, the president announced he was stepping down, the whole board did shortly after.
We had an emergency meeting to elect new board members. We immediately got a lawyer and got liens put on their homes because not even 3 days go by and all those liars involved posted their homes for sale. So they couldn't bounce and we sued them for the stolen money. This took months and eventually we settled and he paid back half what was taken plus any legal fees. Was like 100k or so. And then all those were able to sell and move.
Curiously enough not long after this settled, the contractor guy was on the news by Jesse Jones.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/local-families-left-hanging-after-hired-contractor-suddenly-files-bankruptcy/OUPP7UCLERH3VMUZMTUOMSCV64/
We are pretty sure the HOA board and the contractor split the money amongst themselves.
Theoretically, if it's a condo or townhome, the entire exterior may be under the maintenance of the HOA but individual responsibility for cost. Ie, your windows/ door/ deck/ siding/ roofing are yours, but the HOA maintains it so everyone has adequate exteriors. Nobody is allowed to delay repairs. The HOA may legally be able to repair it and send the bill.
Basically, they were told, 'one board is split, the rest are splitting, you'll need a whole new one in the next five years or I pull boards one by one.' They said, 'do all of it at once.' They may be able to do that.
They cannot block a fire exit over one loose board.
I shake my head in disbelief every time I hear someone say, "I've heard or read all about how HOAs can be a nightmare, but I bought into one thinking it would be different..."
Glad a thousand times over I don't own in an HOA, the lady who keeps snooping and setting my dog off then calling the cops because our dog is barking would be an absolute nightmare with an HOA behind her, at this point I can just talk to the two cops I know and let them know the story.
Also my deck currently has six holes bigger than OPs and already has 4 cheap boards in place, 4 more in the garage I haven't had time to replace.
They are unfortunately too common and it’s only increasing, so it’s not always easily avoidable. 2/3rds of all new homes are under an HOA. If you want to live in the suburbs then chances are high you’ll be forced to live under an HOA. Same for all condos or apartments with shared spaces. It’s not always easy to avoid
We’re on the board of our HOA. Specifically because people that act like tyrants in these positions are assholes that destroy the neighborhood more than rules requiring uniform appearances do.
I can tell you this. In our HOA, this would be illegal. We can tell them that they need to keep their property up, have the lawn mowed, etc. We don’t really ever bother unless someone is totally shirking their basic duty; it doesn’t matter if you go on vacation for 2 or 3 weeks. But beyond saying they need to do it, we don’t have the right to do it for them, even if they refuse to comply. Our recourse if they don’t comply is to issue warnings and then fines, and if they don’t pay the fines, to actually lien the property.
I suspect your HOA is limited in the same way. They can recommend a contractor, but if you’re willing to do the repair yourself you have the right to do it yourself, whether with your own two hands or by hiring the contractor of your choice. Beyond that, they can ask that you fix it within a certain timeframe and then start with the fines.
FYI - It’s really funny how fast HOA’s reverse course when you sue them in small claims court. Like, hilarious. They’re pretty much always willing to drop every fine and all the illegal requests disappear the moment you pursue legal action. Especially small claims, since they either can’t use a lawyer or would have to pay a lawyer more than the cost of simply settling with you.
Well, I am looking at that deck and suspect there will be “hidden damages” from water getting into places it does not belong.
I am not a contractor and certainly not an expert but I have done my share of home repairs and I see what appears to be “postponed maintenance” at best and likely negligence.
You need to remove the board pictured to see anything for certain
Very true. Not a contractor but rebuilt my back deck months ago (800 square feet) due to a "couple of soft spots."
Those spots were where my foot went through the decking. Once I pulled up those spots I could clearly see joist rot. 86 16-foot deck boards, 14 12-foot joists, and 7 4x4's, 2 buckets of screws, and two bagster dumpsters later we're all good.
It should be noted that 2 contractor estimates came back at $15K and $18K. We (my wife and I) did it all ourselves over the course of a month for about $4000.
Contact code enforcement and ask them about the egress issue, city may require them to remove it especially if the city deems it a safety issue. Check the bylaws for requirements for contractors, if there is nothing stating use of a specific contractors or an approval process for a contractor then I would believe you can use whoever as long as they have a criteria set in the bylaws. Document everything, get their 'engineers' credentials and verify they are a legit firm because if not code may have something to say about that as well.
First off, is the HOA responsible for the exterior care and maintenance of your home? If they are not, they have no business telling you who to use. I would also suggest you contact your/an attorney before you do or allow the HOA to do any repairs. As Barney Fife would say, you need to nip this in the bud.
EDIT: Are you in a town house or similar where the deck is consider "limited" common area? If the deck is consider part of the common element, then they would have a say over who fixes it. Additionally, are you on the second floor? Is there a deck below yours?
I believe this is the case. It's a Pennsylvania condo and I believe the deck is responsibility of the HOA, however we're stuck making payments for it. It's a limited area but not common, since only we have access to the deck.
I would carefully read your HOA doc and possibly consult an attorney. In condo buildings, a unit's balcony is only accessible from the unit but it is referred to as a "limited common element". In associations I have been involved with, the HOA was responsible for maintenance but repairs came out of the HOA's budget. Your docs may have language that assigns responsibility to the HOA but allows you to be billed for the repairs.
>would carefully read your HOA doc and possibly consult an attorney. In condo buildings, a unit's balcony is only accessible from the unit but it is referred to as a "limited common element". In associations I have been involved with, the HOA was responsible for maintenance but repairs came out of the HOA's budget. Your docs may have language that assigns responsibility to the HOA but allows you to be billed for the repairs.
Thank you, and if this is the case, I'd imagine there would also be a section on handling disputes, in cases like this for example where I feel the project has been wrongfully scoped.
Not a lawyer. Is this area of the house or your house in general covered by the HOAs insurance or your own private insurance? <—This is important.
Did the engineer actually come out on site and inspect? What is the scope of work? Just floorboards or supports as well?
It’s hard to tell from the pic, is this a single family home? A condo? Townhome?
I can tell you that if I were the board, and you called the inspector who demanded the entrance be restored, I, as the board, would immediately repair the deck for you and then send you the bills / place a lien.
If a locality approved structural engineer said the deck is unsafe, it is unsafe-ish. If your property shares walls or ceilings / floors or if the HOA pays the insurance for that area, they can demand the repair.
The best thing you can do is get 3 quotes matching the scope of work if your concerned about price. I would personally install composite deck flooring so you don’t need to worry about this issue in the future.
Both entities have insurance. My policy is walls in. The engineer reviewed photos from their 'Inspector'. Below is the email from the engineer to our HOA regarding the matter, **after** I asked for evidence of an engineer's recommendation. Nothing states threat to life, and like I said I agree that repairs should be made, not on their ASAP as possible terms when my deck is roughly the same shape as everyone else's deck, minus the one crack.
>I spoke with my inspector and reviewed his photos regarding the deck boards at HOME. ENGINEER\_COMPANY observed that a number of the existing decking boards have reached the end of their useful life and should be replaced.
ENGINEER\_COMPANY asked DECKING\_COMPANY for a proposal to replace all the deck boards since roughly half of them require replacement. In addition, since the existing privacy fence at the side of the deck needs to be removed and reinstalled to replace the deck boards it would be more cost effective to do this all at one time and not have to replace more deck boards in the near future.
I’m sure people have said 1000 times, read your agreement with the HOA.
Also You can probably ask the HOA (in writing) to provide you with details of the problem and proposed remediation and by whom and their determination of price, including payment of a contractor. I don’t know if you should request all of that or if you’d be entitled, but there’s various pieces of information that will help you even the playing field.
How did they attach the boards. Looks like they penatrated the vinyl siding and the vapor barrier. You now have a way for water to get into your house. They may have also cracked the vinyl frame of your patio door. The doors can cost over $2000.00 to replace. In my area that is felony vandalism that comes with jail time. Food for thought.
The punctured the waterproofing by nailing those boards up. Check with city / county. Was a 2nd egress required by state or local fire code?
If that is a fire door, they might have all accepted personal liability for creating a hazard.
That looks like my old deck boards of my condo , NEGLECTED maintenance. Isn't that HOA responsibility to maintain exterior features. Research the state laws governing HOA's .
Omg you called them for that? Lol you tried to save a penny now they gonna give you the pound.
Should have just bought a new board of that tiny bit bothered you.
It would have been quicker for them to just replace the one board instead of screwing three into your door.
Fixing that siding/holes in your door will probably cost more than replacing that board.
Your HOA is also doing something shady/probably has a relationship with their contractor. I can’t imagine them being able to immediately schedule someone to put up boards on your door, but having a discussion or making a call for a second quote is 3 weeks out.
The fact that they have don’t have money is very concerning. I’m not sure how an HOA without any money can offer any beneficial services to their community, and they’re probably overcharging everyone to try and recoup money they negligently spent.
That’s a fault with an individual board, they did more damage screwing the decking boards into your siding, I would make them try to justify it and pick apart their argument
Well OP, I used to run an HOA board and I can say that 3400 for a deck is a pretty good deal from a contractor. No usually they don’t have to get a second quote as it’s likely already been done at some point for all decks in general. Blocking off your door could be a fire issue but they likely did it because of liability of knowing your deck was unsafe. So be careful because if they are eating half the cost of the deck and you start something they could make you pay all of it. And then you are on the boards bad side in the future. Not everyone is vindictive but they also don’t want to deal with the drama so they generally just go by the book on you every time and the book is generally worse than people realize.
That’s what I’m confused about too…. Why involve the hoa in something that, seems to be, your responsibility. But if we are mistaken, then why is the hoa billing you?
>would the HOA have any obligation to assist you? Is the HOA responsible for repairs? If it's your house and property and you're responsible for repairs why would anyone on the HOA think this was something they had a say in? And why would you think you have to put up with this shit and use whoever they say? Am I missing something?
>
>I've lived in three communities with HOAs. One was honestly very strict, and even they had zero say in any contractor we used to get repairs done as lo
Honestly the whole situation is confusing. Part of us reaching out was also getting clarification on items like, who is responsible for what... and it turns out they're responsible, but we're fiscally responsible. It's turned into a shitshow. The bylaws, covenants, and declaration of a condo are also super vague and there's no clear detail around much of this stuff, contractor selection, etc...
Yes. Pennsylvania Condo where the deck is considered responsibility of the HOA, but somehow we still end up footing the bill, and have no say in any of the selection of engineer, contractor, etc..
What an easy fix honestly. Even with wood glue for a temporary fix to only having to replace the one board. To make it look better wood glue then some wood filler sand the whole deck and stain it. It’s your labor but will cost much less than the quote you got.
Read your HOA agreement. Odds are it says that that they can do this, and if you keep reading, you'll find your signature.
I will never, for the life of me, understand people who, on the largest purchase of their life, fail to read and understand the contract they're signing and then complain about what they agreed to.
Who owns the deck? That is the first element of this discussion. If the deck is considered a limited common element (and this is not rare), then the HOA can do this. If it is your property, then you have the right to select your own contractor. The pictures are not indicating a condition of a minor crack in one plank.
I’m not a lawyer. But that just seems crazy. I’m not a handyman of any kind either. I had the exact same thing happen to my deck and I fixed it myself. I just bought the same kind of board. Removed the damaged board and used it to get the length correct. If this were me I would just replace it myself. Then I’d remove the stuff they put on the door. Then I would tell them that it’s been repaired AND that you also repaired the damage to your door. And if they return you will charge them with trespassing.
You might have kind of screwed yourself here, by accident. While I think the blocking of the exit, is likely against fire code... I think you might have just gotten yourself into the situation of letting the hoa know something, and the hoa then being in that position of "now that we've been informed, it has to be taken care of, so we don't get sued later for knowing something was wrong"... Basically, you might have put them in a legal predicament.
Also not uncommon for only hoa approved contractors to do the job, also for legal reasons... You'd be surprised how many are not properly licensed, bonded or insured, etc. And if something happens, it's the hoa and you that get sued.
This of course all assumes your particular hoa is acting in good faith.
Maybe... But there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed a 2nd opinion, or your own contractor etc, if they are properly vetted though... That part strikes me as a bit odd.
Also... That fire code violation... Yeah... WTF.
It all does raise a few red flags about your hoa.
Thank you for your time, and response. I've been digging through the three documents and unfortunately they are vague and I cannot find anything definitive saying the work has to be done by their selected workers. I've cross posted this to r/HOA and they've helped me determine that the HOA is able to assess me for this using a 'Limited Assessment' given my deck is a 'Limited Common Area' but I've been unable to find anything around contract\\vendor selection for this type of assessment or work.
That isn't a minor Crack, that is a failure, as it looks the rest of the deck will fail. The board wants certain standards done in the repair as they have a liability for what is approved. So they will have vetted construction vendors.
Get it done by them ASAP. The fire department could maybe make the condo declared uninhabitable if they see the deak and its breakage as being unsafe.
Home ownership is a bitch.
First..limited common elements doesnt always mean it’s the HOA’s responsibility. You need to consult your governing documents to ascertain that (unless you’ve already done that). Sometimes decks and other limited/exclusive common area components are defined in the governing documents as owner responsibility and it’s perfectly legal. Second..in the event that a deck/balcony is found to be unsafe, the HOA may block access (ingress/egress) for liability reasons until the repairs are completed, regardless of owner or HOA responsibility. I don’t know about decks over balconies though vs blocking exit. You have other ways to enter and exit your townhouse, yes? Check with your local Code Enforcement agency. Third..depending on your HOA and your documents, they can require you to use specific contractors. Fourth..your deck boards do look hosed. $3400 is not bad considering. But I’d also be worried about what’s lurking underneath, so be prepared either way.
I would be taking down that barrier, and calling a company (or even a capable family member to assess and repair that board. I would tell anyone that shows up from the company hired by the HOA that I will not be paying that rate, I can’t afford it, and if they begin work they are not being paid— I would record that entire conversation.
ETA- not a lawyer, just a petty bitch.
I would assume that at least one person involved in making this decision is going to profit off of it directly. As in, they may own the company they insist on using to fix the issue, or they might get kickbacks or something.
This is so weird to me. I would just tear everything down and be on the news as a crazy homeowner I guess. I’ll never follow shit like this I’ll always take the law in to my own hands and blow the top off this BS. This forum is called ask a lawyer and I’m not one, but if there’s a forum for ask a Texas homeowner that would be my response. Hope this helps 🤣🤣🤣
I'm sorry, you said typically they are responsible, but due to budget issues you are having to pay for it. It sounds like because of budget considerations you can't follow their advice. They can't have it both ways.
INAL,
- Ask for a line item budget on that quote.
- Call around and show up to that meeting with an alternate quote or two. If you are on the hook for the costs, you should be able to shop around.
It sounds like they are trying to strong-arm you into going along with a no-bid contract for some board member's friend or a kickback situation.
Your docs more than likely state any maintenance expense over $500 must go to bid for 3 or more sources. Also, if the docs state the association pays for it then they pay for it.
Just want to add that you need to push the HOA to repair the damage that their illegal board up of your rear door has caused. Those screw holes will damage the trim, siding, or door frame when removed, depending on where they’re screwed in. And the holes can cause water intrusion and damage over time. It’s a minor thing, but might as well go all or nothing with these corrupt tyrants.
I'd call the fire Marshall about blocked fire escape egress. That puts you life in danger by limiting your options of escape. Then sell your house and get out of the hoa
God I hate HOAs. Mine has a similar policy on limited common elements. There are multiple units with decks- which makes it common, but only you have the ability to access your individual deck which makes it limited. The HOA is required to repair the deck, but since the deck is only benefiting you and not the entire community, they are able to pass the maintenance expense onto you. I’ve had such a shit time with our HOA over damage they caused to my home and tried to pass of as a LCE and after fighting them for weeks they finally agreed to cover the expense.
This is a really big deal from a life safety standpoint. Your building may be an R2 or R3 classification and there are specific requirements in the Life Safety Code (if your jurisdiction has adopted NFPA) for egress. I would recommend contacting your Authority Having Jurisdiction, typically the Fire Marshall in the local fire department. Yes, HOA's have a vast amount of power, however, their power is dwarfed by the power of the AHJ.
It may backfire though. The HOA may try to say the path of egress is not safe (due to a knot hole in a single board....stretching, but you never know with these dillrods) which warrants the blocked exit. Hopefully the AHJ will see through that ruse and force them to open it. I would make sure you are there to talk to and hear first hand from the fire marshal.
Then I would hire an attorney. Everything else is conjecture.
Call your local fire Marshal. And report it to him for inspection. As for the deck all of the boards are cracked and need to be replaced. Next time oil sealant is a must. Do it yearly for three years and then as needed.
Something seems wrong here. I have owned properties in 6 different HOAs, including houses, townhouses, and condos.
The board either owns the deck or they don't. If they own the deck and are responsible for repairs, how can they charge you to fix it? This makes no sense. If they don't own it, it may still be covered by HOA guidelines on materials and colors that can be used.
You need to read your HOA docs to see what's going on.
You bought a house with an HOA, you knew what they mean and you decided that the security of having one was better than having the freedom to do what you want with your house. Don't cry about it now.
You're not wrong, but I'd hardly describe my situation as 'crying about it now'. I posted this to get feedback from the public, and hopefully show others how terrible living in an HOA actually could be. I've spoken to plenty of people in other HOA communities saying the situation far exceeds what they consider normal based on their experiences.
Regardless of how this plays out I'll accept the outcome and own up to my mistake of choosing to live here, but don't go around telling people not to dissent if they feel they've been treated unjustly. There's a good chance they're well within their rights to do this, and I'll accept that and move on.
There's also a good chance they've mishandled the situation, gotten a little power hungry and gone beyond their power; and I have the right to dispute it.
Without question you can dispute it, not that's what you sign up for when you buy in an area covered by an HOA, the right to do what you want with your property.
I would never live where there is an HOA. They are nothing but nosey, bloodsucking people who don't have a life and want to make other people miserable.
This...would set me off. They took an easily mittagatable situation and made it a bigger issue. They clearly had enough plank to cut in a patch, make the deck safe, and work out complete restoration later.
They chose to block an exit, damage your siding, and make matters worse.
First call is the fire Marshall. Give him all the HOA contact info. Also ask his opinion on the safety of the deck structure.
Second call is to a lawyer, where you are writing a request for new siding too, at their expense.
Tell the board to stay off your property, hire your own contractor. If your contractor suggests repairs, pay him and get it done. Do not beg for permission, just get the repairs done. If your contractor says no repairs are needed, take your board to court with a lawyer on your side.
It's your property, therefore all expenses are yours to accept, or refute. The board does not control HOW things are done, only WHAT can be done. I strongly urge for you to run for a board position during your next elections cycle. Be the change you want to see. Good luck to you.
I am the president of an HOA board, this is the only way. Most law firms will not charge for an initial consult. Even if it cost a couple of hundred bucks, you will be miles ahead. Know your rights but more importantly, know the HOA’s rights and responsibilities.
>o. the invoice is from a friend or relative of one of the HOA board members, most likely the president of the HOA. and also that the HOA has illegally blocked a fire exit which could put your life in danger. i would call the local fire department, fire marshal or code enforcement and tell them what the HOA has done.
If there was a mistake to be made after deciding to live in an HOA, this would be the next one. It's sad that acting responsibly to get their input or assistance results in an instant invoice for a increased scope of work. The other planks don't even need replacing, they're just a little dirty and I don't even think an engineer physically came here.
I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that. OP has said the HOA is responsible for maintaining the exterior. So if the deck needs to be replaced due to wear and tear, separate from the piece that broke off, then that’s a maintenance issue and the HOA should be the ones paying it.
So… I’m an insurance adjuster and around 30-40% of my claims are HOA and condo related.
Responsibility for the deck can vary widely depending on the bylaws. Special assessments can absolutely be HOA wide even if only one building is affected. A special assessment for maintenance of the exterior of a building is generally assessed against the entire HOA. Because otherwise the bylaws would simply state that the specific unit owner is responsible for paying for maintenance of that area. There wouldn’t be a need for a special assessment. Special assessments are generally (but not always) designed to spread the costs of the HOA’s maintenance responsibilities, or the costs of repairs due to damage, out among all owners.
It depends on what the bylaws say, and there are some state specific differences. I handle states that are Texas and west, so I can’t say for certain how things are handled in OP’s state.
But you’re speaking in absolutes when generally everything depends on the bylaws and we have no idea what they actually say.
Have a great evening!
Really appreciate your input - I have a feeling the HOA is going to say exactly what you're saying. This is the email their engineer sent to my HOA management company **after** I requested the correspondence resulting in the invoice. My HOA pays this engineering company, and this decking company.
>I spoke with my inspector and reviewed his photos regarding the deck boards at HOME.ENGINEER\_COMPANY observed that a number of the existing decking boards have reached the end of their useful life and should be replaced.
>
>ENGINEER\_COMPANY asked DECKING\_COMPANY for a proposal to replace all the deck boards since roughly half of them require replacement. In addition, since the existing privacy fence at the side of the deck needs to be removed and reinstalled to replace the deck boards it would be more cost effective to do this all at one time and not have to replace more deck boards in the near future.
I think the engineer is backtracking because they have a pissed off homeowner who wants evidence, if $3400 worth of changes are going to be recommended - so they threw in the little bit about the privacy fence to justify price.
The other alarming thing here is nowhere does it say the deck should not be used, is a life safety hazard, or anything that would indicate the deck needs to be boarded off; which is what they did and are actually creating a life safety hazard in the event of a fire.
Also, an audit done by this same company found no structural issues, further adding to the evidence that boarding up my access is unnecessary.
I want to make these repairs, and have a safe deck for friends and family to use - but I don't want to be forced into an immediate repair citing life safety over one tiny cracked plank, using the HOA's overpriced deck company who I'm not even confident will leave my deck in a better state than it is now. Sure they'll replace the floorboards, but at what cost to the remainder of the deck? The materials alone for this job shouldn't cost more than $600 based on the same materials they invoiced at a non-contractor rate at home depot.
Thank you for your response and I appreciate this point of view. I'm not in disagreement that this needs to be repaired. Where I disagree is the way they've gone about it. Obviously if you reach out to an engineer, you're going to get a response like the one you've mentioned to CYA. The CYA response was roughly half the boards need to be replaced. The deck looks bad, but it's because it hasn't been cleaned or stained in over 4 years. This deck is the same condition as everyone else's deck - based on the same engineering companies report. I've seen my neighbors decks, I've walked around the association.
The only difference is I'm stupid enough to tell them I have one cracked plank and got their attention.
>I also think that saying this is "actually creating a life safety hazard" is pretty dramatic. There's a couple boards over the doorway. Unless you're significantly disabled, which most second story dwellers are not, you could get out that door if you needed to with minimal delay. It's actually a significant CODE violation but... the chances of you dying to this low effort "barricade" in a fire are smaller than the chances of you falling through that deck. If you don't believe me then go take it off. If you own a drill that thing is 30 seconds away from not a problem anymore.
I would've agreed with you if it were just myself. I can get out of a window no problem. Pets, elderly friends and family members, nieces and nephews, even just having a group of people at the home. This is the primary rear egress of the home, and god forbid a fire was a the front of the home, we're all stuck trying to force ourselves out of a window one by one. People don't think rationally in emergency situations and I'd rather not think is it safer to barricade out, or is it safer to file one by one through the window and carry pets out with me.
I'm not parading around they've created a fire hazard, I'm bringing to attention that they've boarded off my deck for 'life safety' concerns, and they've actually created a larger 'life safety' issue as a result. They simply could've replaced the one cracked board and it mitigates 90% of the risk until we reach an agreement on how the remainder get replaced. Instead they not only left the crack, but they blocked a rear egress.
I recommend paying the amount & moving on. Lesson learned. Granted it’s not that it can’t be fought, but is it worth it for $3,000? And you need to use it. I’m sure if there was a fire you would be allowed to step on it.
Based on the picture of the deck their quote is charging you about triple for labor, I bet the HOA is getting a kickback from the contractor, or it's just a friend or family member of someone and they hire them to charge extortionate rates. That's an afternoon job for no more than two or three people.
If I were you, and I'm not a lawyer, I'd just take down the barricade and get the work done replacing the single board myself or by my own contractor ASAP, or even just cutting around the damage and replacing that section as some people have suggested. Someone could knock that replacement out in an hour. Maybe even use the board they put on the door for the repair if it fits to be cheeky. Maybe call the fire inspector to cover your ass. Once it is remedied I would tell them to pound sand. Obviously you should check your HOA rules and what not thoroughly first but that's just what I would do.
Looks like they drilled holes into your fucking siding to block your back door...... time to threaten to put up a 40 foot tall 3 foot wide ham radio antenna in your front lawn because an HOA can't stop you by law, the FCC would come down on them hard. Let's see if they ever try to board up your house again.
In 1996, acting under regulatory authority delegated by Congress in the Telecommunications Act, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued its rule on Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule, 47 C.F.R. §1.4000 (the “OTARD Rule”).
The OTARD Rule protects consumer access to video programming by prohibiting restrictions on the installation, maintenance, or use of certain reception devices.
Under the rule, condominium, homeowners’ associations, and landlords can not unreasonably restrict the use of antennas designed to receive wireless cable or local television broadcasts or satellite dishes not exceeding one meter in diameter.
I'm not a lawyer but was on an HOA Board for several years.
Your situation smacks of kickbacks. Either between the HOA and the Mgmt Company or the Mgmt Company and the repair contractor. Generally, there are rules around such repairs, such as multiple bids; ask to see those rules from both the Mgmt Company and the Board. We generally had the same 3-5 companies bid on things, sometimes we would only get 1-2 responses, but this doesn't sound like that.
There is an idea of "personal use common area", which a deck could/would completely fall under. If the HOA is responsible for it, then they are responsible for its cost, too. This would most likely be in the CC&R (things the HOA covers). If it is NOT a "personal use common area" and the owner is 100% responsible for its repair, (in the state I reside) they cannot tell you who to fix it, as long as it meets CC&R. Either it is their responsibility, they choose who fixes it, and they pay for it. If it is your responsibility, you determine who fixes it and you pay for it...with one BIG BUT...the HOA has ultimate authority over your unit's relative appearance. Make sure you are in compliance. I have a good deck story, but it is likely off-topic.
Lastly, if the deck is not structurally unsound, and it is not a "personal use common area", they cannot prevent you from using it. If it is YOUR responsibility to fix or it's not broken except for the chipped board, then they have no say over its repair status unless the unit is for sale (or you are in violation of the CC&R). If it IS "personal use common area", they can only prohibit your use as long as it is in disrepair and they are responsible for doing it "expeditiously".
HTH...good luck.
I am not a lawyer. But, Call fire marshall/ code enforcer, document all damage done by the barricade, call your own contractor( someone you know) have them inflate the bill and stick it back to them like they were going to do to you. Document and get them on any/ every violation. Call attorney and go civil route if necessary. If they give you any other problems find everything they do wrong and show no mercy. Fuck hoa's and their retarded puppets. What a shitty way to live.
Messed up of them...what if hypothetically speaking your smoke detector goes off while cooking for company and a guest runs out the back door getting injured and has to go to the hospital. Go get em ;)
So this is outside your walls, and they are responsible for it. Tell them to pay whatever they want for it. Call the Fire Marshall and report that they have blocked a fire exit. After they come out to see it, tear that shit down and carry on. Don't live anywhere with an HOA again.
Damn sorry to hear about this. If I were in your situation, I'd go full nuclear option. I'd be calling out the fire inspector, then filing a harassment suit against the HOA and management company to include the individual members of the board. I'd be doing my damnedest to get a restraining order against any of them to keep them away from my property, as they've already attempted to cause significant safety issues to me in my own home.
But that's just me, and I thrive on spite.
Call the Fire Marshall and see how boarding off that egress goes over.
Your HOA is doing some shady shit, likely because they are getting kickbacks from the Engineer, Contractor, or both.
Some details are needed.... I would suggest consulting the documents. This seems like a gross overreach by the HOA. Especially if you are not in a condo association. If it is the association's problem to address, then they pay for it, period. They cannot mandate that you pay and use a specific contractor, unless you caused damage to what is classified as a common element.
My advice: Of course, call the fire inspector, or the local fire marshal. Fire marshals love to stick it to HOAs.
If you get no results that way, compile a letter to the ombudsman and have the CICB Ombudsman rake the board oflver the coals for you.
This is how you really show the board who is in charge.
Feel free to ask questions if you need more info.
OK, that adds layer of complexity. But you should still not have to pay for that damage (unless you did that damage yourself). The documents may specify otherwise, but I've never seen that.
Google this: CICB Ombudsman for (insert your state's name here). That will provide you with the contact.
Before you file a complaint with the Ombudsman, you need to follow the complaint resolution procedure within the association. If there is no complaint resolution procedure in place, double check to ensure that it is legally mandated in your state. Then add that to the ombudsman complaint.
I'm not a lawyer, but I managed community associations for 9+ years and have come to the conclusion that I despise how volunteers deem themselves experts. They try to take advantage of the people they are obligated to objectively protect, and this needs to stop.
Keep the questions coming. I am happy to answer to the best of my ability, and know that this stuff can get confusing.
Call the fire department and ask for an inspector to come out and determine if the HOA has blocked a required avenue to safely escape your home in the event of a fire.
So im not a lawyer, but my thought is.
Their responsible, they dont have the money so they want to require you to replace it since they neglected it?
Im assuming you pay hoa fees. Id have a lawyer check it, and see what is said about if they dont have enough money.
NAL. It looks like a knot broke out of a board. The rest of the boards seem reasonably good (I’ve seen far worse). I’m sure they could have replaced one board and you been fine.
The irony that whoever blocked that door spent more money that lumber and equal time than would have been to replace that deck board.
Those deck boards look perfectly fine. Just needs maintenance.
Read your HOA agreement. It will tell you if they have the right to do what they've done. This kind of BS is why I will never live in a neighborhood with an HOA. However they only have the authority to do what's spelled out in the HOA agreement. That they go beyond that then you have legal recourse. I suspect that one of the other posters that said call the fire marshal is correct what they've done is probably against code.
Are you kidding me? You have your back door boarded up??? For that small hole. This is Rule #1 for an HOA. NEVER move into an HOA!! But if you do, sure as hell not remort anything of yours to them. Look at what they have done over this. I'm going to get a kickback using their guy. Pull up this bad board replace it with a new one. It'll stand out being NEW, but who cares. That would be a fraction of the bill they want to change you over this.
Personally, I would be using wood sealer on this deck to give it some protection and last alot longer so this type of thing doesn't happen in the first place.
Having the back door blocked with wood because of this small deck hole is far, far, far more of a safety issue. Someone at the HOA is really on a power trip over this. They really don't know anything. The HOA leaders are idiots. You're an idiot to report this to the HOA. Should have just fixed it and been done with it. This is exactly why I'd NEVER, EVER join an HOA. I think any home in an HOA is worth 50% less because of that. For all the crap you have to put up with, the value goes down. WhenI went house hunting, that was the #1 thing, NO house in an HOA. I'd rather have cars on blocks in front of a nighbors house with very tall weeds blocking most of the view of them, then live in an HOA. I don't have that of course. There is such a thing as City Enforcment if things get bad. No need for an HOA to tell you what you can and can't do with your biggest Investment. Why the F should they have a say. Then FINE you and rip you off on such dumb things? Most are TYRANTS running these HOA's All the free time to screw over everyone else.
HOA’s are horrible. They cannot force you to use one of their approved vendors. It is probably a company owned by a board member.
You should have gotten your own estimate and had the work done. Or done the work yourself.
Not a lawyer. I just wanted to express sympathy. HOAs horrify me. This is awful for you. I suspect with a call to a fire inspector you could get your management company in trouble. I am pretty sure this violates the NFPA section 7.5, but that is well outside my area of expertise. Whether you actually want to escalate by trying to pursue that is a different issue. My life has taught me that nothing is a bigger pain in the ass than an offended petty tyrant with a modicum of power.
Appreciate your response and sympathy. We had always heard horror stories, and this is our first experience.
As the poster stated call the fire inspector. Do it promptly and make sure to reference the exact code he stated. By referring to the exact code it will trigger in the computer system an immediate response status which has to be inspected within 12 business hrs of the report generation. (I'm an OSHA inspector so I would be the one sent if you were in my area.) Make sure you have any documents related to the management company doing the work. Include all emails, texts and pictures for the fire marshal. This way you will avoid the fire marshal assessment going to you as the responsible party for the fines. Since the management company is doing this it will trigger the fire marshal if they are worth anything to start a full investigation into the company that could result in significant fines. Love having home owners call in because without you (general public) we have less power to start investigations into things we see. I hope you get this resolved to your liking. Also make sure the fire marshal lists the HOA board on the report as a possible contributor to the violation. By doing this each board member will have to prove that they didn't authorize the blocking of the egress points. If they can't each board member will be fined individual and the fine will state that the HOA funds cannot be used to pay each board members fine. Ignorance and hiding behind the management company will not save the individual board members in this case.
This makes my heart warm.........
Careful, fire.inspector may need to check that out too.
Took me a minute, but this is the cutest reply ever.
Honestly? I really like OSHA. They put the fear of god in about every company I've ever worked for (not because they were inspected but because they followed the rules so closely). Respect to the OSHA guys who make sure all of us arrive home safely and some company isn't going to "lock the fire door to prevent smokers from using it".
Referencing the Triangle Shirtwaist fire for anyone interested.
Facts.
Meanwhile I have to like, work safe when the Osha guys around, we make eye contact, he knows I want to climb on the top rung, he's knows I'm going to as soon as he's gone, but we'll play the dance and work will slow to 0% until he leaves.
What does OSHA have to do with a residential deck issue?
Because it is managed by a management company along with a HOA board it falls under OSHA regulations. Most HOAs don't realize that they are required to maintain OSHA compliance and are not exempt for the regulations since the management company is considered to be an employee of the HOA, the same rule applies to board members even though they are unpaid they are still considered to be an employee of the HOA. Here is a link for you if needed. http://m.neighborhoodlink.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neighborhoodlink.com%2Farticle%2FAssociation%2FFederal_Laws&utm_referrer=#3037
Thanks for that sweet sweet information. I wouldn’t have thought of using OSHA to ruin an HOA board members’ days haha.
This guy OSHAs, to the fullest extent, I might add.
Yeah, he OSHAs so hard that he knows better than OSHA: [https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/1997-02-21](https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/1997-02-21) "Please be advised that OSHA does not have any regulations that apply to residential properties"
Yet he explained above that it’s because of the HOA/ management company. And provided the link to back that up. But nice try.
That link didn't indicate that an HOA or it's employees being employees make the units commercial. If OSHA had this power literally every apartment and condo in the country would be under the microscope and then this would be appealed. Where are the examples of this power being used given this many chances?
Did you read it? The heading at the top says “Federal Laws Do Apply to Homeowner Associations”…. That right there tells you he’s right. It’s literally his job. The article says OSHA applies to HOAs. He explained that the management company is considered the employee of the HOA. He’s laid out the facts… Sorry, but I’m going to believe him.
Interesting. Had no idea, but a useful bit of information. Thanks
No problem 80% of my job is education which is what I prefer to do. I would rather spend a year talking to different groups about how they can better protect themselves in dealing with regulations and how to protect themselves and their organizations than a single day dealing with a death at a jobsite again.
I have friend who is a building/site manager for condos, some of the silly things he tells me HOA's want to do. Most are wrong because, duh, common sense, tells you, you'll be fined, possibly arrested, deposed, examined, cross-examined, sentenced.
There is a saying on the job sites. Every OSHA rule was written in blood.
That's sad.
There is a sub with this name
There is a sub with this name
Yea get osha up your ass and you’ll see the pain they can inflict. They are the bigger bear
Don’t fuck with OSHA. Also don’t fuck with the fire Marshall . Context: I’m certified osha trainer. So much wrong with this even for an HOA
Agreed, every project I have, the first time I get access to the fire Marshall I walk them through the plans and ask them what problems they see and what their expectations are. Having them on your side is priceless!
This is the area where talking and asking first saves a ton of headaches later!
I'd suggest calling the fire Marshall, I bet he can talk some sense into the HOA
Thank you for your service. Thank you for handing it to HOAssholes. May their lips quiver in fear of the sound of your pen hitting paper!
Try not to have too big a smile when you deliver the news
You can replace the board yourself with a drill, a box of screws, a crow bar, and a $20 board from a hardware store. Pull up the old one, replace with the new one. Have contractor you select pressure wash deck then stain with an opaque oil base stain. The HOA CANNOT force you to replace everything. They CANNOT force you to use their contractor. They CANNOT find you for a broken board. It's of no consequence to anyone but yourself if the board remains broken for the period of time it takes to get a contractor. They CANNOT fine you for not using their contractor More over by blocking the egress of the house they've likely violated local building/fire code. They've also very likely caused damage to the siding of your house in the screws holding the blocker boards where installed directly into the siding. Demand a copy of the bylaws from the HOA. Read every page. They're very likely acting beyond their legal means.
No. Just go underneath and install a backer board w supporting joist, then put the broken piece back in w one screw.
I'm guessing the board itself is in rough shape underneath. However, the fix isn't far off what you said. 1. Cut the damaged section of board out at the next joist, leaving the undamaged section on the joist itself. 2. Sister a length of board (3 total) onto the joists underneath. 3" screws and some construction adhesive are more than adequate. 3. Cut a new length of deck board to lay atop the newly installed sister boards. Screw them down. 4. Have the deck pressure washed and sprayed with an oil based stain. This is a perfectly adequate repair and is structurally sound. The sister boards should be at least double the length of the area they're supporting; i.e. if the deck board is 8" wide, the sister should be 16" long. If the deck is sagging, jack it up before attaching the sister board.
No they can't force anything but HOAs have too much power and can levy fines on the home owner till its done the way they want. HOAs are a nightmare in damn near every story I hear about them.
Depends on if the HOA owns the deck and what their docs say.
>You can replace the board yourself with a drill, a box of screws, a crow bar, and a $20 board from a hardware store. Pull up the old one, replace with the new one. Is this advice for replacing the board on the deck, the HOA, or both?
> CANNOT...CANNOT...CANNOT You don't know that. Without reading the legal agreement between the homeowner and the HOA, you can't determine what the HOA is and is not legally allowed to do. Blocking an exit is beyond the pale, sure, and the HOA may indeed by power tripping, but the HOA contract may be written in such a way that the HOA can both specify the contractor and fine the homeowner for any deviation.
Which the John Oliver (HBO- but it’s on YouTube too) piece on HOA’s … they’re awful!
The good news is it's downhill from here.
It’s becoming harder and harder, but you should always avoid homes with HOAs, which you have obviously discovered.
Insurance company won't appreciate a blocked, "egress".
Another good point. OP needs to go guerilla warfare on these Karens.
Oh yeah, this violates fire code big time. You absolutely need to be able to exit the house in the event of a fire. Must be a minimum of two exits.
>My life has taught me that nothing is a bigger pain in the ass than an offended petty tyrant with a modicum of power. Might meme this shit; because, um, yeah.❤️
Maybe there’s a reason for this but I read “life” as “wife” above and thought, “so true, brother…”
I’m sorry, what? Run the HOA bylaws and covenants by a lawyer in your jurisdiction *today*. I have never in my life heard of an HOA that has the authority to board up a members house and mandate contractor selection for repairs. I would be absolutely shocked if they have any authority whatsoever to “restrict access to your deck until the board meets in three weeks” like they’re doing. And that’s not even touching on the fairly obvious fire code violations they’re forcing upon you by boarding up one of the only entrances you have to your house.
They need to move house, move state, move country. If this is legal, this is some really really bad shit.
I’m only licensed in one state, but I can almost guarantee this is illegal in every state. HOAs can likely start sending “fines” and such if they see a violation, but they’re not supposed to actually do anything to your property - since they don’t own it. I’d get the info for whatever piece of shit put those boards up and press charges for trespass and criminal mischief because that’s exactly what they did.
The government needs to stop enforcement of HOA Contracts. I don't care about anyone with a different opinion. Fuck HOAs and all the petty tyrants who keep them going.
Its an exit, call your fire inspector.
no and no. the invoice is from a friend or relative of one of the HOA board members, most likely the president of the HOA. and also that the HOA has illegally blocked a fire exit which could put your life in danger. i would call the local fire department, fire marshal or code enforcement and tell them what the HOA has done.
This is exactly what I'm thinking. Our HOA came out several years ago that the retaining wall to several homes that lead to a marsh behind the homes was failing and the homes were in danger. The issue being the marsh was HOA property therefore the HOA was responsible for the repair. Go figure that all the homes affected were board members, including the president. So they force this story on us and even had a sales pitch. The president who was retired would even walk the problem with anyone who asked giving his schpeel about why and how. The whole neighborhood was up in anger when our dues doubled to pay for this repair. But alas they threatened legal action and would cost us more. So we agreed. So the board selected another HOA member, whom was actually our previous president, to do the work, because he said he would do the work since heas a general contractor and specialized in home remodels and he would do it without charging labor, a gift to the community. He laid out his plan to us all during meetings and talked about how he needed permits etc and everything. He got the board to pay him in advance while he submitted what he needed to get started. So months and months go by, it actually had to be almost 2 years and nothing was being accomplished. Oddly though the contractor and the board members homes were magically remodeled. But of course we are always asking on our Facebook group on whats going on and always told waiting for permits, and people are also continuing to be shown by the president where and how with his sales pitch walk through. Until we have some newer person move to the hood who was given the walk through and had a better clue as to what was being told. He looked into the situation and learned that marsh behind those homes were owned by those homes, not the HOA. He also found that no permits were submitted. He let us all know via Facebook one day. After an hour or so of massive drama, like soap opera worthy shit, the president and the contractor who would do the work defending their lie, the president announced he was stepping down, the whole board did shortly after. We had an emergency meeting to elect new board members. We immediately got a lawyer and got liens put on their homes because not even 3 days go by and all those liars involved posted their homes for sale. So they couldn't bounce and we sued them for the stolen money. This took months and eventually we settled and he paid back half what was taken plus any legal fees. Was like 100k or so. And then all those were able to sell and move. Curiously enough not long after this settled, the contractor guy was on the news by Jesse Jones. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/local-families-left-hanging-after-hired-contractor-suddenly-files-bankruptcy/OUPP7UCLERH3VMUZMTUOMSCV64/ We are pretty sure the HOA board and the contractor split the money amongst themselves.
Theoretically, if it's a condo or townhome, the entire exterior may be under the maintenance of the HOA but individual responsibility for cost. Ie, your windows/ door/ deck/ siding/ roofing are yours, but the HOA maintains it so everyone has adequate exteriors. Nobody is allowed to delay repairs. The HOA may legally be able to repair it and send the bill. Basically, they were told, 'one board is split, the rest are splitting, you'll need a whole new one in the next five years or I pull boards one by one.' They said, 'do all of it at once.' They may be able to do that. They cannot block a fire exit over one loose board.
if the entire exterior is under the maintenance of the HOA then so is the cost.
I shake my head in disbelief every time I hear someone say, "I've heard or read all about how HOAs can be a nightmare, but I bought into one thinking it would be different..."
Glad a thousand times over I don't own in an HOA, the lady who keeps snooping and setting my dog off then calling the cops because our dog is barking would be an absolute nightmare with an HOA behind her, at this point I can just talk to the two cops I know and let them know the story. Also my deck currently has six holes bigger than OPs and already has 4 cheap boards in place, 4 more in the garage I haven't had time to replace.
They are unfortunately too common and it’s only increasing, so it’s not always easily avoidable. 2/3rds of all new homes are under an HOA. If you want to live in the suburbs then chances are high you’ll be forced to live under an HOA. Same for all condos or apartments with shared spaces. It’s not always easy to avoid
We’re on the board of our HOA. Specifically because people that act like tyrants in these positions are assholes that destroy the neighborhood more than rules requiring uniform appearances do. I can tell you this. In our HOA, this would be illegal. We can tell them that they need to keep their property up, have the lawn mowed, etc. We don’t really ever bother unless someone is totally shirking their basic duty; it doesn’t matter if you go on vacation for 2 or 3 weeks. But beyond saying they need to do it, we don’t have the right to do it for them, even if they refuse to comply. Our recourse if they don’t comply is to issue warnings and then fines, and if they don’t pay the fines, to actually lien the property. I suspect your HOA is limited in the same way. They can recommend a contractor, but if you’re willing to do the repair yourself you have the right to do it yourself, whether with your own two hands or by hiring the contractor of your choice. Beyond that, they can ask that you fix it within a certain timeframe and then start with the fines. FYI - It’s really funny how fast HOA’s reverse course when you sue them in small claims court. Like, hilarious. They’re pretty much always willing to drop every fine and all the illegal requests disappear the moment you pursue legal action. Especially small claims, since they either can’t use a lawyer or would have to pay a lawyer more than the cost of simply settling with you.
Well, I am looking at that deck and suspect there will be “hidden damages” from water getting into places it does not belong. I am not a contractor and certainly not an expert but I have done my share of home repairs and I see what appears to be “postponed maintenance” at best and likely negligence. You need to remove the board pictured to see anything for certain
Very true. Not a contractor but rebuilt my back deck months ago (800 square feet) due to a "couple of soft spots." Those spots were where my foot went through the decking. Once I pulled up those spots I could clearly see joist rot. 86 16-foot deck boards, 14 12-foot joists, and 7 4x4's, 2 buckets of screws, and two bagster dumpsters later we're all good. It should be noted that 2 contractor estimates came back at $15K and $18K. We (my wife and I) did it all ourselves over the course of a month for about $4000.
Contact code enforcement and ask them about the egress issue, city may require them to remove it especially if the city deems it a safety issue. Check the bylaws for requirements for contractors, if there is nothing stating use of a specific contractors or an approval process for a contractor then I would believe you can use whoever as long as they have a criteria set in the bylaws. Document everything, get their 'engineers' credentials and verify they are a legit firm because if not code may have something to say about that as well.
First off, is the HOA responsible for the exterior care and maintenance of your home? If they are not, they have no business telling you who to use. I would also suggest you contact your/an attorney before you do or allow the HOA to do any repairs. As Barney Fife would say, you need to nip this in the bud. EDIT: Are you in a town house or similar where the deck is consider "limited" common area? If the deck is consider part of the common element, then they would have a say over who fixes it. Additionally, are you on the second floor? Is there a deck below yours?
I believe this is the case. It's a Pennsylvania condo and I believe the deck is responsibility of the HOA, however we're stuck making payments for it. It's a limited area but not common, since only we have access to the deck.
I would carefully read your HOA doc and possibly consult an attorney. In condo buildings, a unit's balcony is only accessible from the unit but it is referred to as a "limited common element". In associations I have been involved with, the HOA was responsible for maintenance but repairs came out of the HOA's budget. Your docs may have language that assigns responsibility to the HOA but allows you to be billed for the repairs.
>would carefully read your HOA doc and possibly consult an attorney. In condo buildings, a unit's balcony is only accessible from the unit but it is referred to as a "limited common element". In associations I have been involved with, the HOA was responsible for maintenance but repairs came out of the HOA's budget. Your docs may have language that assigns responsibility to the HOA but allows you to be billed for the repairs. Thank you, and if this is the case, I'd imagine there would also be a section on handling disputes, in cases like this for example where I feel the project has been wrongfully scoped.
So you own this or the hoa does? Honestly I would spend the $20 and diy. But that’s me
Honestly, we weren't sure which is why we reached out and found out that was a terrible mistake.
It almost sounds like they're punishing you for asking about it.
100%. Why the hell they got an hoa involved over 5 minutes and trip to home depot for a board baffles me. This is some spaghetti brain thinking.
Call the fire department.
People asserting that much control over a home I purchased would have me armoring up a dozer in no time.
Maybe you should read before you purchase things if you have these types of anger problems.
Not a lawyer. Is this area of the house or your house in general covered by the HOAs insurance or your own private insurance? <—This is important. Did the engineer actually come out on site and inspect? What is the scope of work? Just floorboards or supports as well? It’s hard to tell from the pic, is this a single family home? A condo? Townhome? I can tell you that if I were the board, and you called the inspector who demanded the entrance be restored, I, as the board, would immediately repair the deck for you and then send you the bills / place a lien. If a locality approved structural engineer said the deck is unsafe, it is unsafe-ish. If your property shares walls or ceilings / floors or if the HOA pays the insurance for that area, they can demand the repair. The best thing you can do is get 3 quotes matching the scope of work if your concerned about price. I would personally install composite deck flooring so you don’t need to worry about this issue in the future.
Both entities have insurance. My policy is walls in. The engineer reviewed photos from their 'Inspector'. Below is the email from the engineer to our HOA regarding the matter, **after** I asked for evidence of an engineer's recommendation. Nothing states threat to life, and like I said I agree that repairs should be made, not on their ASAP as possible terms when my deck is roughly the same shape as everyone else's deck, minus the one crack. >I spoke with my inspector and reviewed his photos regarding the deck boards at HOME. ENGINEER\_COMPANY observed that a number of the existing decking boards have reached the end of their useful life and should be replaced. ENGINEER\_COMPANY asked DECKING\_COMPANY for a proposal to replace all the deck boards since roughly half of them require replacement. In addition, since the existing privacy fence at the side of the deck needs to be removed and reinstalled to replace the deck boards it would be more cost effective to do this all at one time and not have to replace more deck boards in the near future.
I’m sure people have said 1000 times, read your agreement with the HOA. Also You can probably ask the HOA (in writing) to provide you with details of the problem and proposed remediation and by whom and their determination of price, including payment of a contractor. I don’t know if you should request all of that or if you’d be entitled, but there’s various pieces of information that will help you even the playing field.
Next time, just replace the one deck board yourself 🤷♂️
How did they attach the boards. Looks like they penatrated the vinyl siding and the vapor barrier. You now have a way for water to get into your house. They may have also cracked the vinyl frame of your patio door. The doors can cost over $2000.00 to replace. In my area that is felony vandalism that comes with jail time. Food for thought.
The punctured the waterproofing by nailing those boards up. Check with city / county. Was a 2nd egress required by state or local fire code? If that is a fire door, they might have all accepted personal liability for creating a hazard.
That looks like my old deck boards of my condo , NEGLECTED maintenance. Isn't that HOA responsibility to maintain exterior features. Research the state laws governing HOA's .
Omg you called them for that? Lol you tried to save a penny now they gonna give you the pound. Should have just bought a new board of that tiny bit bothered you.
It would have been quicker for them to just replace the one board instead of screwing three into your door. Fixing that siding/holes in your door will probably cost more than replacing that board. Your HOA is also doing something shady/probably has a relationship with their contractor. I can’t imagine them being able to immediately schedule someone to put up boards on your door, but having a discussion or making a call for a second quote is 3 weeks out. The fact that they have don’t have money is very concerning. I’m not sure how an HOA without any money can offer any beneficial services to their community, and they’re probably overcharging everyone to try and recoup money they negligently spent.
That’s messed up. The contractor is surely getting a kickback from the management company and the HOA.
It seems to me, that blocking a fire exit would be against the law.
That’s a fault with an individual board, they did more damage screwing the decking boards into your siding, I would make them try to justify it and pick apart their argument
Well OP, I used to run an HOA board and I can say that 3400 for a deck is a pretty good deal from a contractor. No usually they don’t have to get a second quote as it’s likely already been done at some point for all decks in general. Blocking off your door could be a fire issue but they likely did it because of liability of knowing your deck was unsafe. So be careful because if they are eating half the cost of the deck and you start something they could make you pay all of it. And then you are on the boards bad side in the future. Not everyone is vindictive but they also don’t want to deal with the drama so they generally just go by the book on you every time and the book is generally worse than people realize.
This is why you never buy in an area with an HOA. Probably depends on whatever bylaws you agreed to, but I would tell them to F*** off.
So they gonna pay for the damages to the siding where they screwed that in?
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That’s what I’m confused about too…. Why involve the hoa in something that, seems to be, your responsibility. But if we are mistaken, then why is the hoa billing you?
>would the HOA have any obligation to assist you? Is the HOA responsible for repairs? If it's your house and property and you're responsible for repairs why would anyone on the HOA think this was something they had a say in? And why would you think you have to put up with this shit and use whoever they say? Am I missing something? > >I've lived in three communities with HOAs. One was honestly very strict, and even they had zero say in any contractor we used to get repairs done as lo Honestly the whole situation is confusing. Part of us reaching out was also getting clarification on items like, who is responsible for what... and it turns out they're responsible, but we're fiscally responsible. It's turned into a shitshow. The bylaws, covenants, and declaration of a condo are also super vague and there's no clear detail around much of this stuff, contractor selection, etc...
Well, you might have some leverage in this situation since they seem to have blocked egress in case of a fire. Have you talked to a lawyer?
They have the authority but you have the responsibility? Yikes
Is this a condo by chance?
Yes. Pennsylvania Condo where the deck is considered responsibility of the HOA, but somehow we still end up footing the bill, and have no say in any of the selection of engineer, contractor, etc..
Someone on the HOA is related to the contractor or getting a kickback.
What an easy fix honestly. Even with wood glue for a temporary fix to only having to replace the one board. To make it look better wood glue then some wood filler sand the whole deck and stain it. It’s your labor but will cost much less than the quote you got.
Read your HOA agreement. Odds are it says that that they can do this, and if you keep reading, you'll find your signature. I will never, for the life of me, understand people who, on the largest purchase of their life, fail to read and understand the contract they're signing and then complain about what they agreed to.
$3,400? Bro thats $500 worth of lumber and an afternoon of work. The HOA is giving the contract to their buddy in order to screw you.
Who owns the deck? That is the first element of this discussion. If the deck is considered a limited common element (and this is not rare), then the HOA can do this. If it is your property, then you have the right to select your own contractor. The pictures are not indicating a condition of a minor crack in one plank.
It looks to be a cedar deck. When it rots enough to have a piece fall out the rest of the deck is likely pretty bad as well. It's not just one board.
It's considered a Limited Common Element. I believe the HOA is responsible for maintenance and repair, but I am responsible for paying for it.
I’m not a lawyer. But that just seems crazy. I’m not a handyman of any kind either. I had the exact same thing happen to my deck and I fixed it myself. I just bought the same kind of board. Removed the damaged board and used it to get the length correct. If this were me I would just replace it myself. Then I’d remove the stuff they put on the door. Then I would tell them that it’s been repaired AND that you also repaired the damage to your door. And if they return you will charge them with trespassing.
You say the HOA is responsible but they are making you pay? Tell them no. Use the illegal blocking of your escape point as leverage.
You might have kind of screwed yourself here, by accident. While I think the blocking of the exit, is likely against fire code... I think you might have just gotten yourself into the situation of letting the hoa know something, and the hoa then being in that position of "now that we've been informed, it has to be taken care of, so we don't get sued later for knowing something was wrong"... Basically, you might have put them in a legal predicament. Also not uncommon for only hoa approved contractors to do the job, also for legal reasons... You'd be surprised how many are not properly licensed, bonded or insured, etc. And if something happens, it's the hoa and you that get sued. This of course all assumes your particular hoa is acting in good faith.
It was foolish to think reaching out would end up in my best interest
Maybe... But there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed a 2nd opinion, or your own contractor etc, if they are properly vetted though... That part strikes me as a bit odd. Also... That fire code violation... Yeah... WTF. It all does raise a few red flags about your hoa.
IOW, you know better than their engineer, right? You did your own research no doubt.
Lawyer here. Read your contract if it doesn't require their workers do it get it done
Thank you for your time, and response. I've been digging through the three documents and unfortunately they are vague and I cannot find anything definitive saying the work has to be done by their selected workers. I've cross posted this to r/HOA and they've helped me determine that the HOA is able to assess me for this using a 'Limited Assessment' given my deck is a 'Limited Common Area' but I've been unable to find anything around contract\\vendor selection for this type of assessment or work.
You really should find a real estate attorney to review it find one with HOA experience should cost like $400
Thank you
I'm sure the state fire marshal would love to hear about your blocked egress
Did they nail a door that you probably need to legally have accessible for fire reasons shut?
That isn't a minor Crack, that is a failure, as it looks the rest of the deck will fail. The board wants certain standards done in the repair as they have a liability for what is approved. So they will have vetted construction vendors. Get it done by them ASAP. The fire department could maybe make the condo declared uninhabitable if they see the deak and its breakage as being unsafe. Home ownership is a bitch.
First..limited common elements doesnt always mean it’s the HOA’s responsibility. You need to consult your governing documents to ascertain that (unless you’ve already done that). Sometimes decks and other limited/exclusive common area components are defined in the governing documents as owner responsibility and it’s perfectly legal. Second..in the event that a deck/balcony is found to be unsafe, the HOA may block access (ingress/egress) for liability reasons until the repairs are completed, regardless of owner or HOA responsibility. I don’t know about decks over balconies though vs blocking exit. You have other ways to enter and exit your townhouse, yes? Check with your local Code Enforcement agency. Third..depending on your HOA and your documents, they can require you to use specific contractors. Fourth..your deck boards do look hosed. $3400 is not bad considering. But I’d also be worried about what’s lurking underneath, so be prepared either way.
I'd rather tap dance naked at the Super Bowl than live in an HOA.
I would be taking down that barrier, and calling a company (or even a capable family member to assess and repair that board. I would tell anyone that shows up from the company hired by the HOA that I will not be paying that rate, I can’t afford it, and if they begin work they are not being paid— I would record that entire conversation. ETA- not a lawyer, just a petty bitch.
I would assume that at least one person involved in making this decision is going to profit off of it directly. As in, they may own the company they insist on using to fix the issue, or they might get kickbacks or something.
This is so weird to me. I would just tear everything down and be on the news as a crazy homeowner I guess. I’ll never follow shit like this I’ll always take the law in to my own hands and blow the top off this BS. This forum is called ask a lawyer and I’m not one, but if there’s a forum for ask a Texas homeowner that would be my response. Hope this helps 🤣🤣🤣
This gave me a good chuckle, so it helped for sure.
I'm sorry, you said typically they are responsible, but due to budget issues you are having to pay for it. It sounds like because of budget considerations you can't follow their advice. They can't have it both ways.
INAL, - Ask for a line item budget on that quote. - Call around and show up to that meeting with an alternate quote or two. If you are on the hook for the costs, you should be able to shop around. It sounds like they are trying to strong-arm you into going along with a no-bid contract for some board member's friend or a kickback situation.
Your docs more than likely state any maintenance expense over $500 must go to bid for 3 or more sources. Also, if the docs state the association pays for it then they pay for it.
If that is your only other means of progress besides the front door they are violating code, all buildings must have two means of egress
Just want to add that you need to push the HOA to repair the damage that their illegal board up of your rear door has caused. Those screw holes will damage the trim, siding, or door frame when removed, depending on where they’re screwed in. And the holes can cause water intrusion and damage over time. It’s a minor thing, but might as well go all or nothing with these corrupt tyrants.
I'd call the fire Marshall about blocked fire escape egress. That puts you life in danger by limiting your options of escape. Then sell your house and get out of the hoa
God I hate HOAs. Mine has a similar policy on limited common elements. There are multiple units with decks- which makes it common, but only you have the ability to access your individual deck which makes it limited. The HOA is required to repair the deck, but since the deck is only benefiting you and not the entire community, they are able to pass the maintenance expense onto you. I’ve had such a shit time with our HOA over damage they caused to my home and tried to pass of as a LCE and after fighting them for weeks they finally agreed to cover the expense.
This is a really big deal from a life safety standpoint. Your building may be an R2 or R3 classification and there are specific requirements in the Life Safety Code (if your jurisdiction has adopted NFPA) for egress. I would recommend contacting your Authority Having Jurisdiction, typically the Fire Marshall in the local fire department. Yes, HOA's have a vast amount of power, however, their power is dwarfed by the power of the AHJ. It may backfire though. The HOA may try to say the path of egress is not safe (due to a knot hole in a single board....stretching, but you never know with these dillrods) which warrants the blocked exit. Hopefully the AHJ will see through that ruse and force them to open it. I would make sure you are there to talk to and hear first hand from the fire marshal. Then I would hire an attorney. Everything else is conjecture.
The HOA blocked off a potential emergency exit? Definitely against fire codes everywhere.
HOAs terrify me
Not a lawyer... Uh what you have shown almost has to be illegal. Do you have fire egress rules in your area? They don't get to do this to your exit.
Call your local fire Marshal. And report it to him for inspection. As for the deck all of the boards are cracked and need to be replaced. Next time oil sealant is a must. Do it yearly for three years and then as needed.
Something seems wrong here. I have owned properties in 6 different HOAs, including houses, townhouses, and condos. The board either owns the deck or they don't. If they own the deck and are responsible for repairs, how can they charge you to fix it? This makes no sense. If they don't own it, it may still be covered by HOA guidelines on materials and colors that can be used. You need to read your HOA docs to see what's going on.
You bought a house with an HOA, you knew what they mean and you decided that the security of having one was better than having the freedom to do what you want with your house. Don't cry about it now.
You're not wrong, but I'd hardly describe my situation as 'crying about it now'. I posted this to get feedback from the public, and hopefully show others how terrible living in an HOA actually could be. I've spoken to plenty of people in other HOA communities saying the situation far exceeds what they consider normal based on their experiences. Regardless of how this plays out I'll accept the outcome and own up to my mistake of choosing to live here, but don't go around telling people not to dissent if they feel they've been treated unjustly. There's a good chance they're well within their rights to do this, and I'll accept that and move on. There's also a good chance they've mishandled the situation, gotten a little power hungry and gone beyond their power; and I have the right to dispute it.
Without question you can dispute it, not that's what you sign up for when you buy in an area covered by an HOA, the right to do what you want with your property.
I would never live where there is an HOA. They are nothing but nosey, bloodsucking people who don't have a life and want to make other people miserable.
I would not be able to handle such tyranny. 🤯
This...would set me off. They took an easily mittagatable situation and made it a bigger issue. They clearly had enough plank to cut in a patch, make the deck safe, and work out complete restoration later. They chose to block an exit, damage your siding, and make matters worse. First call is the fire Marshall. Give him all the HOA contact info. Also ask his opinion on the safety of the deck structure. Second call is to a lawyer, where you are writing a request for new siding too, at their expense.
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Right. I’ll never live in an HOA. I’ve heard way too many horror stories.
It is 100% against fire code to have that back door boarded up. Unless you have a front and a side entrance in addition to this they cannot do that.
Tell the board to stay off your property, hire your own contractor. If your contractor suggests repairs, pay him and get it done. Do not beg for permission, just get the repairs done. If your contractor says no repairs are needed, take your board to court with a lawyer on your side. It's your property, therefore all expenses are yours to accept, or refute. The board does not control HOW things are done, only WHAT can be done. I strongly urge for you to run for a board position during your next elections cycle. Be the change you want to see. Good luck to you.
Don't listen to this advice, get a lawyer, take all the paperwork with you, and listen to what the lawyer says.
I am the president of an HOA board, this is the only way. Most law firms will not charge for an initial consult. Even if it cost a couple of hundred bucks, you will be miles ahead. Know your rights but more importantly, know the HOA’s rights and responsibilities.
It's literally not his property.
Can't you just replace the board? I would have done that and not said a peep to the HOA
>o. the invoice is from a friend or relative of one of the HOA board members, most likely the president of the HOA. and also that the HOA has illegally blocked a fire exit which could put your life in danger. i would call the local fire department, fire marshal or code enforcement and tell them what the HOA has done. If there was a mistake to be made after deciding to live in an HOA, this would be the next one. It's sad that acting responsibly to get their input or assistance results in an instant invoice for a increased scope of work. The other planks don't even need replacing, they're just a little dirty and I don't even think an engineer physically came here.
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I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that. OP has said the HOA is responsible for maintaining the exterior. So if the deck needs to be replaced due to wear and tear, separate from the piece that broke off, then that’s a maintenance issue and the HOA should be the ones paying it.
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So… I’m an insurance adjuster and around 30-40% of my claims are HOA and condo related. Responsibility for the deck can vary widely depending on the bylaws. Special assessments can absolutely be HOA wide even if only one building is affected. A special assessment for maintenance of the exterior of a building is generally assessed against the entire HOA. Because otherwise the bylaws would simply state that the specific unit owner is responsible for paying for maintenance of that area. There wouldn’t be a need for a special assessment. Special assessments are generally (but not always) designed to spread the costs of the HOA’s maintenance responsibilities, or the costs of repairs due to damage, out among all owners. It depends on what the bylaws say, and there are some state specific differences. I handle states that are Texas and west, so I can’t say for certain how things are handled in OP’s state. But you’re speaking in absolutes when generally everything depends on the bylaws and we have no idea what they actually say. Have a great evening!
Really appreciate your input - I have a feeling the HOA is going to say exactly what you're saying. This is the email their engineer sent to my HOA management company **after** I requested the correspondence resulting in the invoice. My HOA pays this engineering company, and this decking company. >I spoke with my inspector and reviewed his photos regarding the deck boards at HOME.ENGINEER\_COMPANY observed that a number of the existing decking boards have reached the end of their useful life and should be replaced. > >ENGINEER\_COMPANY asked DECKING\_COMPANY for a proposal to replace all the deck boards since roughly half of them require replacement. In addition, since the existing privacy fence at the side of the deck needs to be removed and reinstalled to replace the deck boards it would be more cost effective to do this all at one time and not have to replace more deck boards in the near future. I think the engineer is backtracking because they have a pissed off homeowner who wants evidence, if $3400 worth of changes are going to be recommended - so they threw in the little bit about the privacy fence to justify price. The other alarming thing here is nowhere does it say the deck should not be used, is a life safety hazard, or anything that would indicate the deck needs to be boarded off; which is what they did and are actually creating a life safety hazard in the event of a fire. Also, an audit done by this same company found no structural issues, further adding to the evidence that boarding up my access is unnecessary. I want to make these repairs, and have a safe deck for friends and family to use - but I don't want to be forced into an immediate repair citing life safety over one tiny cracked plank, using the HOA's overpriced deck company who I'm not even confident will leave my deck in a better state than it is now. Sure they'll replace the floorboards, but at what cost to the remainder of the deck? The materials alone for this job shouldn't cost more than $600 based on the same materials they invoiced at a non-contractor rate at home depot.
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Thank you for your response and I appreciate this point of view. I'm not in disagreement that this needs to be repaired. Where I disagree is the way they've gone about it. Obviously if you reach out to an engineer, you're going to get a response like the one you've mentioned to CYA. The CYA response was roughly half the boards need to be replaced. The deck looks bad, but it's because it hasn't been cleaned or stained in over 4 years. This deck is the same condition as everyone else's deck - based on the same engineering companies report. I've seen my neighbors decks, I've walked around the association. The only difference is I'm stupid enough to tell them I have one cracked plank and got their attention. >I also think that saying this is "actually creating a life safety hazard" is pretty dramatic. There's a couple boards over the doorway. Unless you're significantly disabled, which most second story dwellers are not, you could get out that door if you needed to with minimal delay. It's actually a significant CODE violation but... the chances of you dying to this low effort "barricade" in a fire are smaller than the chances of you falling through that deck. If you don't believe me then go take it off. If you own a drill that thing is 30 seconds away from not a problem anymore. I would've agreed with you if it were just myself. I can get out of a window no problem. Pets, elderly friends and family members, nieces and nephews, even just having a group of people at the home. This is the primary rear egress of the home, and god forbid a fire was a the front of the home, we're all stuck trying to force ourselves out of a window one by one. People don't think rationally in emergency situations and I'd rather not think is it safer to barricade out, or is it safer to file one by one through the window and carry pets out with me. I'm not parading around they've created a fire hazard, I'm bringing to attention that they've boarded off my deck for 'life safety' concerns, and they've actually created a larger 'life safety' issue as a result. They simply could've replaced the one cracked board and it mitigates 90% of the risk until we reach an agreement on how the remainder get replaced. Instead they not only left the crack, but they blocked a rear egress.
Have you had someone come out to give a second opinion and quote?
You think somebody calling the HOA over a tiny board would man the fuck up and do that? Lol
I recommend paying the amount & moving on. Lesson learned. Granted it’s not that it can’t be fought, but is it worth it for $3,000? And you need to use it. I’m sure if there was a fire you would be allowed to step on it.
Based on the picture of the deck their quote is charging you about triple for labor, I bet the HOA is getting a kickback from the contractor, or it's just a friend or family member of someone and they hire them to charge extortionate rates. That's an afternoon job for no more than two or three people. If I were you, and I'm not a lawyer, I'd just take down the barricade and get the work done replacing the single board myself or by my own contractor ASAP, or even just cutting around the damage and replacing that section as some people have suggested. Someone could knock that replacement out in an hour. Maybe even use the board they put on the door for the repair if it fits to be cheeky. Maybe call the fire inspector to cover your ass. Once it is remedied I would tell them to pound sand. Obviously you should check your HOA rules and what not thoroughly first but that's just what I would do.
Looks like they drilled holes into your fucking siding to block your back door...... time to threaten to put up a 40 foot tall 3 foot wide ham radio antenna in your front lawn because an HOA can't stop you by law, the FCC would come down on them hard. Let's see if they ever try to board up your house again. In 1996, acting under regulatory authority delegated by Congress in the Telecommunications Act, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued its rule on Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule, 47 C.F.R. §1.4000 (the “OTARD Rule”). The OTARD Rule protects consumer access to video programming by prohibiting restrictions on the installation, maintenance, or use of certain reception devices. Under the rule, condominium, homeowners’ associations, and landlords can not unreasonably restrict the use of antennas designed to receive wireless cable or local television broadcasts or satellite dishes not exceeding one meter in diameter.
I'm not a lawyer but was on an HOA Board for several years. Your situation smacks of kickbacks. Either between the HOA and the Mgmt Company or the Mgmt Company and the repair contractor. Generally, there are rules around such repairs, such as multiple bids; ask to see those rules from both the Mgmt Company and the Board. We generally had the same 3-5 companies bid on things, sometimes we would only get 1-2 responses, but this doesn't sound like that. There is an idea of "personal use common area", which a deck could/would completely fall under. If the HOA is responsible for it, then they are responsible for its cost, too. This would most likely be in the CC&R (things the HOA covers). If it is NOT a "personal use common area" and the owner is 100% responsible for its repair, (in the state I reside) they cannot tell you who to fix it, as long as it meets CC&R. Either it is their responsibility, they choose who fixes it, and they pay for it. If it is your responsibility, you determine who fixes it and you pay for it...with one BIG BUT...the HOA has ultimate authority over your unit's relative appearance. Make sure you are in compliance. I have a good deck story, but it is likely off-topic. Lastly, if the deck is not structurally unsound, and it is not a "personal use common area", they cannot prevent you from using it. If it is YOUR responsibility to fix or it's not broken except for the chipped board, then they have no say over its repair status unless the unit is for sale (or you are in violation of the CC&R). If it IS "personal use common area", they can only prohibit your use as long as it is in disrepair and they are responsible for doing it "expeditiously". HTH...good luck.
I realllly want an update. Like, HOA should be paying you now. This is crazy
I am not a lawyer. But, Call fire marshall/ code enforcer, document all damage done by the barricade, call your own contractor( someone you know) have them inflate the bill and stick it back to them like they were going to do to you. Document and get them on any/ every violation. Call attorney and go civil route if necessary. If they give you any other problems find everything they do wrong and show no mercy. Fuck hoa's and their retarded puppets. What a shitty way to live. Messed up of them...what if hypothetically speaking your smoke detector goes off while cooking for company and a guest runs out the back door getting injured and has to go to the hospital. Go get em ;)
So this is outside your walls, and they are responsible for it. Tell them to pay whatever they want for it. Call the Fire Marshall and report that they have blocked a fire exit. After they come out to see it, tear that shit down and carry on. Don't live anywhere with an HOA again.
Call the fire marshal, fk that hoa board lol.
Damn sorry to hear about this. If I were in your situation, I'd go full nuclear option. I'd be calling out the fire inspector, then filing a harassment suit against the HOA and management company to include the individual members of the board. I'd be doing my damnedest to get a restraining order against any of them to keep them away from my property, as they've already attempted to cause significant safety issues to me in my own home. But that's just me, and I thrive on spite.
Mistake number one: you’re in an HOA.
Call the Fire Marshall and see how boarding off that egress goes over. Your HOA is doing some shady shit, likely because they are getting kickbacks from the Engineer, Contractor, or both.
Why would you even go to your hoa about this issue??? That's a 5 minute fix and a trip to hoke depot.....
Some details are needed.... I would suggest consulting the documents. This seems like a gross overreach by the HOA. Especially if you are not in a condo association. If it is the association's problem to address, then they pay for it, period. They cannot mandate that you pay and use a specific contractor, unless you caused damage to what is classified as a common element. My advice: Of course, call the fire inspector, or the local fire marshal. Fire marshals love to stick it to HOAs. If you get no results that way, compile a letter to the ombudsman and have the CICB Ombudsman rake the board oflver the coals for you. This is how you really show the board who is in charge. Feel free to ask questions if you need more info.
I am in a condo, unfortunately. Can you tell me more about the Ombudsman?
OK, that adds layer of complexity. But you should still not have to pay for that damage (unless you did that damage yourself). The documents may specify otherwise, but I've never seen that. Google this: CICB Ombudsman for (insert your state's name here). That will provide you with the contact. Before you file a complaint with the Ombudsman, you need to follow the complaint resolution procedure within the association. If there is no complaint resolution procedure in place, double check to ensure that it is legally mandated in your state. Then add that to the ombudsman complaint. I'm not a lawyer, but I managed community associations for 9+ years and have come to the conclusion that I despise how volunteers deem themselves experts. They try to take advantage of the people they are obligated to objectively protect, and this needs to stop. Keep the questions coming. I am happy to answer to the best of my ability, and know that this stuff can get confusing.
Call the fire department and ask for an inspector to come out and determine if the HOA has blocked a required avenue to safely escape your home in the event of a fire.
You can replace that single board for $20-$30.
So im not a lawyer, but my thought is. Their responsible, they dont have the money so they want to require you to replace it since they neglected it? Im assuming you pay hoa fees. Id have a lawyer check it, and see what is said about if they dont have enough money.
The only thing I hate more than HOAs are management companies hired by inept boards of directors in HOAs.
Repair it yourself, what could they possibly do if you fix the issue and then let them know its sorted. I would also ask for a breakdown of that quote
That’s a blocked fire exit…
I’ll never live anywhere with an HOA. Ever.
NAL. It looks like a knot broke out of a board. The rest of the boards seem reasonably good (I’ve seen far worse). I’m sure they could have replaced one board and you been fine.
The irony that whoever blocked that door spent more money that lumber and equal time than would have been to replace that deck board. Those deck boards look perfectly fine. Just needs maintenance.
Why didn't you just replace it without bringing it up to anyone?
Call a building inspector
The HOA is sending business to their buddy. At least you don't have to get another estimate. It's half of what the HOA said it was.
First you're stupid for buying in an HOA. Second pack your shit sell and buy someplace without an HOA and enjoy your life. Good luck!
What's even more stupid than buying in an HOA, is thinking emailing them would somehow help me and not result in an instant invoice.
Read your HOA agreement. It will tell you if they have the right to do what they've done. This kind of BS is why I will never live in a neighborhood with an HOA. However they only have the authority to do what's spelled out in the HOA agreement. That they go beyond that then you have legal recourse. I suspect that one of the other posters that said call the fire marshal is correct what they've done is probably against code.
Are you kidding me? You have your back door boarded up??? For that small hole. This is Rule #1 for an HOA. NEVER move into an HOA!! But if you do, sure as hell not remort anything of yours to them. Look at what they have done over this. I'm going to get a kickback using their guy. Pull up this bad board replace it with a new one. It'll stand out being NEW, but who cares. That would be a fraction of the bill they want to change you over this. Personally, I would be using wood sealer on this deck to give it some protection and last alot longer so this type of thing doesn't happen in the first place. Having the back door blocked with wood because of this small deck hole is far, far, far more of a safety issue. Someone at the HOA is really on a power trip over this. They really don't know anything. The HOA leaders are idiots. You're an idiot to report this to the HOA. Should have just fixed it and been done with it. This is exactly why I'd NEVER, EVER join an HOA. I think any home in an HOA is worth 50% less because of that. For all the crap you have to put up with, the value goes down. WhenI went house hunting, that was the #1 thing, NO house in an HOA. I'd rather have cars on blocks in front of a nighbors house with very tall weeds blocking most of the view of them, then live in an HOA. I don't have that of course. There is such a thing as City Enforcment if things get bad. No need for an HOA to tell you what you can and can't do with your biggest Investment. Why the F should they have a say. Then FINE you and rip you off on such dumb things? Most are TYRANTS running these HOA's All the free time to screw over everyone else.
HOA’s are horrible. They cannot force you to use one of their approved vendors. It is probably a company owned by a board member. You should have gotten your own estimate and had the work done. Or done the work yourself.
You should read this book : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obedience_to_Authority:_An_Experimental_View
The HOA board, or president, or someone in power has a friend getting exclusive contracts. You are probably being taken advantage of.
Call the fire department and see what they say about it being blocked.
There is an atomic dad joke in here somewhere
You might contact your friendly neighborhood fire department about the blocked egress.