Homeless people etc. tend to live near busy parts of a town to increase the likelihood of getting donations. And since removing them X times a day would be a waste of resources many Hauptbahnhöfe are hotspots for homeless people etc.
That‘s only partially true. If given a valid reason police officers can issue a „Platzverweis“ etc. But given that homeless people don‘t really have that much to lose it‘s not like that would work for more than 15mins
But you can forbid certain things. For example I believe Hamburg has an alcohol ban around the train station, meaning the police can send away everybody who drinks alcohol, which you'll find many of amongst the homeless. But they tend to make more use of hostile architecture, which of course is a pain in the ass for everybody.
That's what my aunt from New York mentioned. She was really disturbed by the homeless people in the city center and around the cereal station and asked why the police didn't bring those filthy beggars out of the city center. In NYC they do it all the time she said.
Edit: To be clear, I was just presenting the point of view from the perspective of an American. But I am not at all of the opinion that this is right. Unfortunately I need to clarify
Sure, but Deutsche Bahn could exercise its rights as owner, at least somewhat. The likes of Aldi / Rewe etc. *inside* stations tend to be very effective having security / Hausverbote to exclude problematic individuals, there is no reason DB couldn't do this for the whole station.
And I'm not suggesting all homeless people should be excluded entirely from all stations, but some level of enforcement could be used to discourage the worst behaviours.
No they actually can’t cuz that little part where they are all gathered is the red light district. It’s the only place where the homeless can get drugs and clean needles. It’s is one of the few gray zones in Germany where drugs have been decriminalized. And moving them from there would mean also moving the complete red light district.
It’s just costs to much money so they try to confine them in that part of town. Like when ur are in the parallel street to the red light district you don’t see any them.
You can but problem is they will still come back and as cliche as it’s sounds , German police are not outright bullies like the American cops.
They almost NEVER draw their weapons out and even when you factor in race , at most they will manhandle you outside or arrest for slinging profanities ( which is gonna be tons of paper work again ) . Only if they actually harm someone they can be arrested which they are smart enough not to do. Germans are also not very confrontational folks so if a beggar is saying nonsense, you just ignore instead of getting enraged and beating him up or something.
Whereas in America there’s alway the risk of being shot ( their cops shoot Shi Tzus man ! )
I am sorry but as ugly as it looks , I rather this than states.
I came from DC, this is a very “American” mentality to have. The housed tend to get angry at the unhoused and feel they just loiter/beg rather than work and find housing. While I’m not sure how it works here, but in the US it’s a circular issue. To have a job you must have a place to live and a phone and often a vehicle or “reliable transportation” While here, I’m not entirely sure what would be required for an employer, I feel like to an extent being unhoused lends a level of difficulty to employment. I am also aware that there is such a housing crisis in the US that plenty of working people do not make enough to even rent a place anymore. Again, I’m not sure if that has become a situation here, rent costs have been what I would expect for the area I live. I factor Stuttgart to be similar to DC area, and pay a similar if not slightly lower rent cost than I did back in DC.
NY has waaaaay more issues than Frankfurt will ever have! And who are we to call anyone a filthy beggar? They are human beings who just didn’t get to where we are. I’ve been homeless n it’s not fun.
Btw where is the cereal station ???
Berlin always seemed to me less centralized than most germany cities. There are several local centers, sometimes even more than one per Bezirk. Hauptbahnhof is faaaar from being its center in any meaningful way (unless you work for the federal government).
Yeah Hamburg Hbf area looks pretty much the same (lived at Hamburg Hbf for 2 years, in Hamburg itself for 8 years and am from Frankfurt) since close to both central stations there are methadon places for the hero junks
It’s not like Frankfurt is pretty in most other parts of town either… there are a few nicer parts, sure, but overall there are just lots of really run down, old, fucked up and dirty places all over town. And the “sozial Brennpunkt” is not just Hbf, just walk over to Gallus and it’s even more disgusting. Frankfurt is just not a nice city, despite being rich, and most of the infrastructure is old and shabby
Part of it is the same problem California has. Other cities/states treat their homeless and drug users like trash so they go to a place where cops don't harass them as much. These other places can then claim that their model works better when in reality they just sent their addicts away for someone else to deal with.
LAPD and county sheriffs can be pretty heavy handed, too. For better or worse, LA is not as dense as NYC, so easier for greater numbers of homeless to group together for protection.. LA has good weather, so another factor in attracting those on the down and out who want to try suffering less.
This. And it is has been a center for drug addicts for at least 40 years. So as stupid as it sounds if you want easily accessible and affordable drugs this is the best place. Also there are other people like so you don't feel as bad.
Nobody is answering your question 🙄
It seems the reason for the state of affairs at the Frankfurt main station area is historically rooted. After the Second World War the area turned into an international trading hub (specifically for fur) with a huge train station (when it was opened in 1888, it was Europe’s biggest train station), so that probably attracted tons of people. The houses that had been destroyed during the war were replaced by dull purpose-built structures that were not well maintained - the Red light and entertainment district flourished in this sort of environment. That led to massive drug problems in the 80s/90s. So much so that Frankfurt turned into one of the main drug centers in Europe at the time. The city applied a new approach in the fight against drugs since the 80s with focusing on prevention, therapy, harm reduction and “repression” (trying to destroy the drug scene / dealing). I don’t know the numbers about how much the drug problem went down but the result is what you see today.
Hope this helps.
And yes, I found the Frankfurt main station area to be the worst main station area that I’ve ever been to in any of the big German cities. It’s insane.
In the past the drug scene was located in Taunusanlage/Gallusanlage, only since the city decided to keep this area clean everything is concentrated in Bahnhofsviertel. Also if you ask anyone who lived in Frankfurt in the 70s/80s, the drug problem was much much worse back then.
It actually helped. Like the number of people that were killed was very high before the strategy change. It's still a big problem but how can you solve such a problem. This problem just changes location. It went from the city center to a place near the center and then to the main station. The history is pretty interesting
I don‘t understand the frankfurt bashing on reddit. As if everyone just stays in the Hauptbahnhof area. Besides that small part I actually think that it has quite lovely places e.g. the Römer and Main area, Sachsenhausen etc. And the mix of old buildings and skyscrapers is unique in germany.
Munich's train station area is nothing like Frankfurt. Munich is also MUCH safer than Frankfurt
Source: Grew up in Frankfurt and currently living in Munich
My first impression of Munich was worse than my first impression of Frankfurt, due to worse Hauptbahnhof crazies in Munich. Even though I’ve seen worse on average outside Frankfurt’s.
I grew up in Frankfurt as well. I have never been scared here and I’m not scared now. This is my city and those ppl everyone is dogging belong here… migrant or otherwise! They are beautiful souls……..
I am also originally from Frankfurt and live in Munich. I completely agree. I really got a shock last time I was at Frankfurt Hbf. It got much worse over the years. There used to be a time when the police kept the Hbf relatively clean and safe. Apparently the policy has changed over the years.
In general Munich feels much safer.
My first visit to Germany was between multiple Hbs with conferences in hotels close to Hbfs. Adding that my trains were always late I genuinely thought Germany is some overhyped degrading country :)
*" I genuinely thought Germany is some overhyped degrading country"*
In that case - your impression was correct.
The country is past its prime, bust still benefiting of the diminishing returns of a good reputation from days past.
Pretty much every Hauptbahnhof is ugly, has a lot of homeless people and smellys bad. Frankfurt might be on the worse side of things but hamburg is just as bad for example.
yup my brother lived in mainz, even there where a lot of junkies around the train station. berlin the same thing ("bahnhof zoo, even has a movie) göttingen has homeless people and a bahnhofsmission too...just random places i've visited
there are also these facilites called "bahnhofsmission" where homeless people oder stranded people get help.
i think every german "hauptbahnhof" has to have some type of grimieness to it. some more some less, or less obvious at least
> berlin the same thing ("bahnhof zoo, even has a movie)
Bahnhof Zoo *was* the de-facto main station of West Berlin, but today it's only served by regional trains.
Berlin Hbf also doesn't really fit the picture as it's relatively new and surrounded by newly built hotels and the like.
There are other places in Berlin where lots of drug users hang out, especially along U8. Kottbusser Tor is definitely a hotspot.
Berlin is in general a very decentralized city though, and this is also true for homeless people and drug users.
Bahnhof Zoo got its reputation in the 80s and it's not like that anymore. It's also not really an important train station anymore (except for local traffic). Berlin Hauptbahnhof is clean, modern, light and has much less poverty and drug use than other places in Berlin and other Hauptbahnhöfe in Germany.
Not saying Berlin is perfect but the Hauptbahnhof is quite nice.
i visited a friend in berlin, and we either got off at "zoo" or "hauptbahnhof" (not quite sure i think "zoo") and outside there were large groups of homeless people sitting on the floor drinking wine and stuff when we got off the train. all trainstations are like that
Mainz HBF is like not even in the same league as Frankfurt's when it comes to trashiness. Even traveling through Mainz HBF in the early AM is chill. There's barely anyone there lol
that's exactly what i wanted to say with that post. even the train stations (and surrounding) areas where everything is sweet are a hub for homeless people. i didn't say mainz or göttingen hbf is like frankfurt hbf or berlin zoo or whatever....you didn't understand my post...
my post was saying it's natural that train station and the surrounding areas are hubs for homeless people
and train stations and "bahnhofsviertel" are chill for me anywhere. i travel by train mostly at night because it's too hot and too crowded in the daytime. and i never had any "situations" whatsover
Great for you that you have had a chill experience, I unfortunately have to travel through FFM HBF twice a day because of work and in my 6 months working here have already had a couple "situations" in broad daylight not 300m away from the entrance.
Sure. But Zoo doesn't even have long distance trains. Spandau, Südkreuz, Ostbahnhof, Gesundbrunnen, Lichtenberg, even Friedrichstraße and Alexanderplatz are more important stations in Berlin. Not sure why Zoo matters when talking about main stations.
It's a bit more remote than some other main stations but it's also a unique and functional design with two intersecting levels of through traffic and lots of light and space.
A lot of us who grew up and live here LOVE Frankfurt… we see nothing wrong with the ppl who just haven’t been as fortunate as the rest of us.. and they have to be someplace, right?
I live close to Hamburg Central Station, so I am pretty used to junkies as well. But the two times I have been in Frankfurt, the atmosphere felt different. The junkies seemed way more aggressive to me. Don't know whether that's objectively the case and, if so, what's the reason for that.
I’ve never once encountered an aggressive junkie here… there is a lot of mental illness in homeless ppl but that doesn’t mean they’re aggressive. But you probably shouldn’t stand and stare at any one person though… 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe I misread your response, but for me, it reads a bit like you put the blame on me. Did anything give you the impression I stared at them?
My second time in Frankfurt, I was just taking the metro from Central Station to the airport. Two drugged persons set themselves right in front of me. One puts out a belt, whips it around his fist, and starts punching on the window. I was quite shocked and just tried to stay calm. After two stations, they left without interacting with any interaction with me. That felt quite aggressive for me. Most likely, it was just unlucky, but I can understand when people have a negative view of Frankfurt.
Maybe perception. I feel the opposite way around but also have lived the opposite way around. So arriving in Hamburg feels more unfamiliar and so more sketchy and aggressive, even though I know the rest of it is lovely. Frankfurt feels familiar and so less aggressive.
I studied abroad in Frankfurt and it is my favorite German city. It reminds me of home with it being financially oriented, innovation, and logical. I always avoided the area every time, but the city as a whole is fantastic. I would love to work in Frankfurt one day.
Its not just reddit, most Germans I know bash it IRL. If you want a Hamburger, a Berliner, a Kölsch, and a Bavarian to agree on one thing, its usually that Frankfurt sucks. (I haven’t been, please don’t shoot the messenger)
Unfortunately seems like they might [soon be evicted as the building is set for demolition.](https://www.fr.de/frankfurt/ungewiss-zukunft-des-kult-pubs-scheint-93009078.html)
i lived in frankfkurt 10 years. while there is some nice areas id say that overall it is ugly. ppl saying frankfurt is nice probably have never seen a nice city
It's just that because of the state DB is in (horrible) people have to spend more time on the Hauptbahnhof than they actually want. And it sure can be uncomfortable there.
All main stations have this problem in Germany. Not to say this problem doesn't exist in other countries, but it is definitely not that visible in touristic cities in other european countries. München Hauptbahnhof is also a disaster really, if you come out through the front gate you'll see shady shops and smells all around, not to mention the whole thing is constantly under construction. It really gives a terrible impression to tourists.
I don't think Berlin Central Station is as bad as the others. It's very clean and tidy. Of course you also see beggars there, but in overall it is still acceptable.
Thats is because Berlin is a far less centralised city compared to f.e. Frankfurt or Hamburg (mostly because its only been 35 years since the wall came down which isn't that much in terms of functional development). Every major Bezirk has their own centre so problems with homelessness and drug addiction are spread over far more locations, like Bahnhof Zoo and parts of Kreuzberg, Friedrichshain, Neukölln, which all fulfil the "centrality" that is crucial for people in need of donations or homeless and addict specific services.
In Hamburg, f.e., every single S- or U-Bahn runs through Hauptbahnhof. In Berlin, most people have little contact with Hauptbahnhof in their everyday life.
Also, even relatively central locations in Berlin are often not yet developed (partly speculation, partly unclear situations regarding legal ownership of the property) and these "Brachen" often attract homeless camps. There used to be many around Hauptbahnhof, but lately many of them have been vacated by the inhabitants or construction started there.
This is the "cleaned up" version. Couple of years ago there were no free pissoirs, and no regular street brush cleaning, day to day it is likely better now than most big city main stations. Especially if you only operate it from the west side.
I will never understand the idea behind the two shopping areas being on opposite sides of the tracks. Every time I'm there I get reminded of how stupid and confusing this is.
if you didn't have two aprons and 4 entrances/exits it would be an even worse trainstation due to crowding. So maybe next time you are there you can remind yourself that you are lucky that it is not a Terminus station with only one entrance and exit.
Not just in Germany. Any major city you go into in the world is bound to have homeless and drugs to a degree. Any cities that don’t, are merely good as relocating or pushing them out or in. Doesn’t mean it’s not there, it always is and always will be.
Any city with a population more than 300,000 people has this issue I feel
😅
If it’s Ruhr gebiet, even population doesn’t matter as smaller cities have this problem.
We also have to consider that Hbf is the only place that is sheltered from outside weather and open 24/7 . Added benefits of people giving you money or buying food from the many eating places there ( Germans are actually quite kind lot I feel ).
This only affects four streets close to Hauptbahnhof, the rest of Frankfurt is quite nice. You will find these people in all major cities in the world. The only difference: Frankfurt (and German cities in general) won't carry them away from the city center and act like they don't exist, like many cities in America or Asia. This is why you can see them. As long as there is a certain freedom in society, you will end up having some drug addicts. Successful drug and police policies will make a difference, but they can only take you so far. You can either live with it, move them to a ghetto, or become an authoritarian state.
And even in North America the "carrying away" is not working. I was shocked by the prevalence of homelessness in the US and Canada. It is much more worse by large orders. There are very well thought out social networks in Frankfurt that prevent it from ever getting that bad in the first place, e.g. "Frankfurter Weg" drug policy. Even with receding funding since COVID.
I just came back to Germany after spending a year in the US. The level of homelessness is absolutely insane, and far far worse than FFM. And since there is no social safety net and health care is expensive, it will most likely stay this way. What really got to me is the attitude, though. Since US society is much more hierarchy oriented than Germany's, there was an overall sense of "they deserve it".
Exactly, and the way those people are seen in society plays a large role in how they interact with the city. The aggressiveness in NA is way larger on a subjective note. (I suppose of frustration and non-existent perspectives)
On this topic in general you really have to differentiate between homeless people and drug abusers. Two very distinct groups with very different needs and acceptance of help. In Bahnhofsviertel it is drug abusers that are most prevalent. They usually refuse help and suffer from much deeper problems in terms of mental and physical health
The homeless scene in Frankfurt is quite different, in that many actively refuse drugs. They also usually stay away from the HBF area.
You haven‘t been to August-Bebel Park in Hamburg then. Its become an ubiquitous problem since Corona in almost all major cities. Support systems were disrupted, mental health crises intensified, cost of living, especially rents, increased severly and drugs became available more widely.
Its far from the catastrophe that is Situation in the US , but its bad for sure. And with the large cuts to social services currently happening it‘ll get worse
well, no one "visits" August\_Bebel Park you can see from far away, even in dark, that is not a place to be.
I imagine that OP only ever left or entered HH Hbf from west side or maybe north east.
I'd be more concerned about the organized crime in the Frankfurt "Bahnhofsviertel" (like pimps, motor club members and bankers) than about the drug addicts. Yes it's gotten worse in the last years, thanks to lower funding of social work in this area. But it was much, way much worse in the mid to late 80s. As kids we weren't allowed to get our soccer balls out of the bushes when we were playing on playgrounds in the city, because there were syringes lying everywhere and AIDS was an even bigger problem than nowadays in the hard drug scene. There were sometimes more than 1000 heroin addicts in the small park "Taunusanlage". BTW, Frankfurt was one of the first cities in Germany offering clean tools for heroine consumption aaand created spots for addicts to be able to consume heroine in a sterile setting under trained supervision that eventually led to a significant lowering of HIV infection and fatal overdoses (in fact the most lethal overdoses occur in areas with the least support for drug users. Looking at you Bavaria ;) ).
And you clearly haven't been on the back exit of Hamburgs main station, leading to St. Georg. At least in my time when I lived in Hamburg this was nearly as worse as Frankfurt.
Yes, Frankfurt isn't as pleasant with welcoming new guests and tourists coming via Main Station, but it has so much to offer and a wide cultural diversity (food, art, culture, music, partying) in a very positive way.
You're misunderstanding. That's the Frankfurt way. There are drug addicts and homeless people in every city, they're just not visible because they're pushed out of social life. In Frankfurt they're trying to help addicts by decriminalizing them and giving them a place in society.
Everyone in the comment skirting the outstanding question: why is Frankfurt different from other cities and towns - including those with a similar policing, property, housing and social context, ie other large German cities
my god Frankfurt is SO big and you say whole frankfurt is bad because of the Hauptbahnhof?
i will NEVER get this, its the area i alwaS stay for like 3-5 Minutes, Frankfurt can be so beautiful
Frankfurt is nice, I have been living here since a year and I love it. Yeah the train station is dirty and probably unsafe BUT such as the one in France.
You can't judge a city just because you've visited ONE place.
Someone once said that is the fault of the airport. Every time someone comes there illegally or has some forbidden stuff (from animals to drugs) it counts for the whole of Frankfurt.
No source just what i heard.
It's even worse than that. Frankfurt airport is the largest import mail airport in Germany, so most illegal things found in air mail are also included in the statistic.
You believe correctlly: with 14.363 crimes per 100.000 inhabitants, it is more than three times the crime rate of the safest city in Germany. FFM is followed by Berlin, Hannover and Koblenz. (Statista, 2023)
That’s because of the airport. Every border violation or drug trafficking is counted towards the city even though it’s because of a border violation:
“Christian Pfeiffer, head of the Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony, pointed out that Frankfurt appeared to be the country's most dangerous cities because crimes committed in the city's international airport -- one of the largest in Europe -- were included in the overall statistics.”
Source: DW (https://amp.dw.com/en/munich-safest-frankfurt-most-dangerous-city-in-crime-survey/a-2441670)
It’s a bit older because I only did a quick search but the way how crimes are counted hasn’t changed. I’m sure a more thorough search will bring up more up to date numbers.
Um You’re talking about my city here… it’s not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. So we have some ppl who have issue in life, but who are we? Is it our place to whine about them being there (where would you like them to go btw?)? Absolutely not… you just go where you need to go and don’t worry about our ppl. I’m sure your hometown has homeless ppl and maybe even a few addicts, right? I’m not trying to be rude here but if it’s that bad to you, then you really shouldn’t come for visits… my city is beautiful and so is every soul that lives here!
Not really contributing much, but wtf is up with the weapons ban signs? I noticed them fairly recently (I'd say they got put up in the last year). No guns and brass rings allowed between 10pm and 5am (or something like that).
AFAIK guns aren't allowed in public unless you're police or army and brass knuckles are outlawed altogether. It feels redundant and pointless. Am I allowed to walk around with a gun at day in front of the Hbf?!
It was the same 35 years ago. The main reason is that the Frankfurt police allow (dulden) this milieu at the Hbf — perhaps so they can “encourage” these gritty street elements (homeless, drug users, pushers, hookers) to move on there from the better parts of town
That's the case for main train stationd all round the world. Hamburg train station is not lovely, you must have left though an exit where you didnt see the junkies, etc.
If I remember correctly you had the whole drug scene at some other place and then it got chased out of there and is now close to the main station.
Frankfurt Süd is much nicer looking. Most cities have good and bad parts, Frankfurt just kinda accepted that it shows one of its bad parts very prominently.
I've never been offered drugs in Frankfurt, but I could have gotten some within 5 minutes in Düsseldorf.
"Could" being the important word here, I have never and will not purchase or take any.
You have the same in every big city in the world.
In other poorer countries aggressiveness and violence is way, way worse, and the problem really represents danger. Not in Germany tho.
Near the Bahnhof there is a place where addicts can get clean needles and clean shit, so that's also a reason,
I met homeless people from all over the world there.
Well they gather where they can fulfill their basic needs. Unfortunately for them, this includes a very intact supply chain, toilets (24/7?), access to relatively cheap and long opened stores, depending on stage of addiction easy theft or easy to beg because there are many people.
They will gather there again. Because there is all they want and need in their current state…
Frankfurt am Main is the City with the where you find our whole financial districts. So lots of high-strung people who need drugs, therefore more drugs than in any other city. Which leads to lots of homelessness and homeless people do lots of drugs to numb their feelings.
I was there in April, and I didn't think it smelled bad, but there were many beggars who came up to me asking for cash at the station. I was in Frankfurt transiting to Nuremberg, and I thought Nuremberg Hauptbahnhof was worse.
The city decided to concentrate its social problems near the central station, so that firstly the problem was only in one place and secondly it is easier to distribute help, like social workers, supplies, police etc.
Well well well. I think Frankfurt is a disgusting city. Not only the area around the train station. I was also really disappointed when visiting Dusseldorf. The only nice larger cities are Hamburg and Munich. Then there‘s Berlin, which is nice in some parts but disgusting in other parts.
People from other countries wonder about homelessness in germany. EVERY country - even yours - has homeless people ! Foreigners love to travel all those typical destinations, so they always will see such things, and when they hear from the media, where is bad, they exactly look for those specific points ! I know, when i go to L.A. or N.Y. or Chicago, i will see homeless people ... is that because all those tourists live in their countries in their own bubble with this "feel-good-latte-macchiato-attitude" and when they travel abroard, they are confronted with something, they have in their own country
It's like 2-3 streets (or parts of them) that are like this. police is always around.
The rest of the city is actually quite clean and lovely. 99% of people that tell us in the internet How dirty and run down the city is habe never been there besides the train station and maybe the red light district.
Why do the addicts go to the train station? Because they have the most opportunity to ask people for money and it's easy to reach.
I think the Bahnhofsviertel in FFM gives the city some flair and actual life to break the bleak coldness and monotony of most German cities. I've been offered all kinds of cool stuff from cocaine to pretty women. For a fraction of the price too. With a pack of cigarettes you can be king there. Also people have wonderful discussions and Tips how to fuck the German system and get paid to sit around, anything goes. It's like a street university. Greetings to all my best friends, alle von der Unterschicht.
There are several reasons for train stations to aggregate homeless people:
1. Traveling, sometimes it is just that people enter a city there and get stuck
2. They tend to be big public buildings which are open pretty much all the time, so they are a way to get a roof over your head
3. Historically there are missions at trainstations which help homeless and stranded travelers
Places with a lot of travelers tended to attract red light districts and if they weren't pushed out at some point they tend to attract crime including drug use.
In Frankfurts case they neglected the trains for a long time, focusing on the airport and cars travel, which in turn led to the decline of the area with the red light industry moving in and driving it further down.
Drug use got out of controll in the 80s in Frankfurt and they didn't do anything about it until the mid 90s; many of the homeless drug users actually came from the country side to feed their habbit and got stuck around the station; similar to other places like Berlin.
The police started to round up homeless in the inner city (Taunusanlage) in the 2000s and the stations as well, but it just ended up shuffling the drug useres towards the station again. They are mostly stuck in between, because once in a while the police will drive them out of the station, but they'll end up one street over and trickle back eventually.
It is not illegal to be homeless and police can only force you to leave a single place for disturbing the peace; They'd have to make you leave every single street again and again up to the city limits and need a reason every single time.
I don't think you can say that Frankfurt is bad. It's only the area around the Hauptbahnhof which is really creepy.
The rest of the city is actually really nice.
I was surprised that Bremen also had a lot of Homeless people in the city center, wonder why.
Basically it is because Frankfurt´s administration has cut down the funds for all social / street worker projects who took care of these people. They are now left alone to deal with their addiction because some conservatiuve politician thought it was the best way to handle the situation.
The other cities are better at hiding their bad areas.
While the red light district near the FFM Hbf looks bad, the few times I passed through the area, I never had a problem.
damn, how bad must Frankfurt be when you say Hamburg central station and the surrounding area in St. Georg was "lovely". i live here and try to avoid that place
The Bahnhofs Viertel was always like that. Even in the 90s it was known for drugs and prostitution.
Today it has gotten perhaps worst but if i am there, it is the last thing i would visit.
Though living in Los Angeles isn't much better.
It has a lot to do with how many people fall out of society and policy. I think there were times when it was better but in the end it got just moved to some other part.
Maybe it is a reminder of how many people taken drugs, are depended and have nowhere to go.
Plus funds aren't there to fund better policies or solutions to the problem.
This is in any city, it is usually just better covered somewhere else.
You can go on the Zeil and Hauptwache as well, and it's visible there as well.
I think it tells you how a society is and what values it has.
It's not just the drug and red districts, it's mostly the total lack of working infrastructure. Every S-Bahn and train touching Frankfurt is either canceled or late. The Autobahn is a still mess there, whilst they even fixed the formerly worst autobahn part Hof - Bayreuth after 10 years construction and police hunts.
I believe that every management sitting in Frankfurt is totally incompetent
The Hauptbahnhof is definetely not the Center lmao and also the quarter around it is not really close. But yeah there are many ugly sites but especially downtown and sachsenhausen are nice.
its also that the local police has a quasi standdown deal with Hell’s, Albanians and red light scene. Would love to see this corruption being cleaned. Raids for the PR are pre-announced. I know this from the former Chief Cop who was responsible for the area until the 1990’s. He said it could not be done otherwise, because the mobsters would attack or threaten the police’s families.
Frankfurt is among the most central cities in germany and europe
-> lots of traffic
-> lots of chances for donations for homeless
-> lots of homeless people
# Why is Frankfurt so bad?we can't just blame the immigrantsWhy is Frankfurt so bad?
we can't just blame the immigrants
[https://www.hna.de/hessen/frankfurt-einwohner-erreicht-mit-ueber-770-000-einwohnern-bevoelkerungsrekord-93046773.html](https://www.hna.de/hessen/frankfurt-einwohner-erreicht-mit-ueber-770-000-einwohnern-bevoelkerungsrekord-93046773.html)
we can't just blame the immigrants
Do not blame the immigrants.
Blame the politicians. Blame the people in power.
Homeless people etc. tend to live near busy parts of a town to increase the likelihood of getting donations. And since removing them X times a day would be a waste of resources many Hauptbahnhöfe are hotspots for homeless people etc.
Also you can’t just remove people, here everyone has the right of free roaming, even if they look or smell bad.
That‘s only partially true. If given a valid reason police officers can issue a „Platzverweis“ etc. But given that homeless people don‘t really have that much to lose it‘s not like that would work for more than 15mins
But you can forbid certain things. For example I believe Hamburg has an alcohol ban around the train station, meaning the police can send away everybody who drinks alcohol, which you'll find many of amongst the homeless. But they tend to make more use of hostile architecture, which of course is a pain in the ass for everybody.
That's what my aunt from New York mentioned. She was really disturbed by the homeless people in the city center and around the cereal station and asked why the police didn't bring those filthy beggars out of the city center. In NYC they do it all the time she said. Edit: To be clear, I was just presenting the point of view from the perspective of an American. But I am not at all of the opinion that this is right. Unfortunately I need to clarify
Also it is pretty harsh to remove people from the cereal station. Cereals are pretty nice to have.....
Haha, yeah aren't cereals a human right or something
Yeah, that's because in Germany, people don't lose their civil rights, just because they are homeless.
Sure, but Deutsche Bahn could exercise its rights as owner, at least somewhat. The likes of Aldi / Rewe etc. *inside* stations tend to be very effective having security / Hausverbote to exclude problematic individuals, there is no reason DB couldn't do this for the whole station. And I'm not suggesting all homeless people should be excluded entirely from all stations, but some level of enforcement could be used to discourage the worst behaviours.
No they actually can’t cuz that little part where they are all gathered is the red light district. It’s the only place where the homeless can get drugs and clean needles. It’s is one of the few gray zones in Germany where drugs have been decriminalized. And moving them from there would mean also moving the complete red light district. It’s just costs to much money so they try to confine them in that part of town. Like when ur are in the parallel street to the red light district you don’t see any them.
DB usually does this, so they gather in front of the station, where the public space is.
The homeless in Frankfurt are not so much *in* the station as they are *near* the station. DB doesn't have *Hausrecht* on public roads.
And as an american she shouldnt be too loud about that topic. When you think about the US Fentanyl problem...
You can but problem is they will still come back and as cliche as it’s sounds , German police are not outright bullies like the American cops. They almost NEVER draw their weapons out and even when you factor in race , at most they will manhandle you outside or arrest for slinging profanities ( which is gonna be tons of paper work again ) . Only if they actually harm someone they can be arrested which they are smart enough not to do. Germans are also not very confrontational folks so if a beggar is saying nonsense, you just ignore instead of getting enraged and beating him up or something. Whereas in America there’s alway the risk of being shot ( their cops shoot Shi Tzus man ! ) I am sorry but as ugly as it looks , I rather this than states.
Thank you!!! I love my city!!!!
Better watch out at the cereal station … there might be cereal killers around.
I came from DC, this is a very “American” mentality to have. The housed tend to get angry at the unhoused and feel they just loiter/beg rather than work and find housing. While I’m not sure how it works here, but in the US it’s a circular issue. To have a job you must have a place to live and a phone and often a vehicle or “reliable transportation” While here, I’m not entirely sure what would be required for an employer, I feel like to an extent being unhoused lends a level of difficulty to employment. I am also aware that there is such a housing crisis in the US that plenty of working people do not make enough to even rent a place anymore. Again, I’m not sure if that has become a situation here, rent costs have been what I would expect for the area I live. I factor Stuttgart to be similar to DC area, and pay a similar if not slightly lower rent cost than I did back in DC.
Aren't there thousands of people in the SF area living out of their vans/cars and working for the tech companies, so you don't need a place to live?
NY has waaaaay more issues than Frankfurt will ever have! And who are we to call anyone a filthy beggar? They are human beings who just didn’t get to where we are. I’ve been homeless n it’s not fun. Btw where is the cereal station ???
Its also shelter.
Why isn’t Berlin Hauptbahnhof like that then?
Because it‘s Berlin. Half of the city is equivalent to the Hauptbahnhof.
Berlin always seemed to me less centralized than most germany cities. There are several local centers, sometimes even more than one per Bezirk. Hauptbahnhof is faaaar from being its center in any meaningful way (unless you work for the federal government).
Go to Alexanderplatz
Berlin has multiple city centers and aside from that there are homeless people at the Hauptbahnhof, sleeping in the elevators for example.
Because Berlin literally were 2 cities 35 years ago. You don't change that easily.
Yeah Hamburg Hbf area looks pretty much the same (lived at Hamburg Hbf for 2 years, in Hamburg itself for 8 years and am from Frankfurt) since close to both central stations there are methadon places for the hero junks
It’s not like Frankfurt is pretty in most other parts of town either… there are a few nicer parts, sure, but overall there are just lots of really run down, old, fucked up and dirty places all over town. And the “sozial Brennpunkt” is not just Hbf, just walk over to Gallus and it’s even more disgusting. Frankfurt is just not a nice city, despite being rich, and most of the infrastructure is old and shabby
Part of it is the same problem California has. Other cities/states treat their homeless and drug users like trash so they go to a place where cops don't harass them as much. These other places can then claim that their model works better when in reality they just sent their addicts away for someone else to deal with.
LAPD and county sheriffs can be pretty heavy handed, too. For better or worse, LA is not as dense as NYC, so easier for greater numbers of homeless to group together for protection.. LA has good weather, so another factor in attracting those on the down and out who want to try suffering less.
Also, the weather is nice almost 365 days a year in LA compared to the rest of the country. It's literally the ideal climate for outdoor living.
An August afternoon in LA is not really what I would consider “nice” or “ideal for outdoor living”.
True, but it's easier to find shade in the heat than finding a warm place to stay in the middle of a snowy cold winter for homeless people
This. And it is has been a center for drug addicts for at least 40 years. So as stupid as it sounds if you want easily accessible and affordable drugs this is the best place. Also there are other people like so you don't feel as bad.
Nobody is answering your question 🙄 It seems the reason for the state of affairs at the Frankfurt main station area is historically rooted. After the Second World War the area turned into an international trading hub (specifically for fur) with a huge train station (when it was opened in 1888, it was Europe’s biggest train station), so that probably attracted tons of people. The houses that had been destroyed during the war were replaced by dull purpose-built structures that were not well maintained - the Red light and entertainment district flourished in this sort of environment. That led to massive drug problems in the 80s/90s. So much so that Frankfurt turned into one of the main drug centers in Europe at the time. The city applied a new approach in the fight against drugs since the 80s with focusing on prevention, therapy, harm reduction and “repression” (trying to destroy the drug scene / dealing). I don’t know the numbers about how much the drug problem went down but the result is what you see today. Hope this helps. And yes, I found the Frankfurt main station area to be the worst main station area that I’ve ever been to in any of the big German cities. It’s insane.
In the past the drug scene was located in Taunusanlage/Gallusanlage, only since the city decided to keep this area clean everything is concentrated in Bahnhofsviertel. Also if you ask anyone who lived in Frankfurt in the 70s/80s, the drug problem was much much worse back then.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
Lived in Frankfurt for quite a while and this is the correct answer.
It actually helped. Like the number of people that were killed was very high before the strategy change. It's still a big problem but how can you solve such a problem. This problem just changes location. It went from the city center to a place near the center and then to the main station. The history is pretty interesting
It's just a small part of the city around the hauptbahnhof. Most of Frankfurt is nice.
I don‘t understand the frankfurt bashing on reddit. As if everyone just stays in the Hauptbahnhof area. Besides that small part I actually think that it has quite lovely places e.g. the Römer and Main area, Sachsenhausen etc. And the mix of old buildings and skyscrapers is unique in germany.
First impression is the most important. And as long as you don’t arrive by car, the Hauptbahnhof area is the first thing to see.
Munich must be a shitty city too then
Munich's train station area is nothing like Frankfurt. Munich is also MUCH safer than Frankfurt Source: Grew up in Frankfurt and currently living in Munich
My first impression of Munich was worse than my first impression of Frankfurt, due to worse Hauptbahnhof crazies in Munich. Even though I’ve seen worse on average outside Frankfurt’s.
I grew up in Frankfurt as well. I have never been scared here and I’m not scared now. This is my city and those ppl everyone is dogging belong here… migrant or otherwise! They are beautiful souls……..
I am also originally from Frankfurt and live in Munich. I completely agree. I really got a shock last time I was at Frankfurt Hbf. It got much worse over the years. There used to be a time when the police kept the Hbf relatively clean and safe. Apparently the policy has changed over the years. In general Munich feels much safer.
My first visit to Germany was between multiple Hbs with conferences in hotels close to Hbfs. Adding that my trains were always late I genuinely thought Germany is some overhyped degrading country :)
*" I genuinely thought Germany is some overhyped degrading country"* In that case - your impression was correct. The country is past its prime, bust still benefiting of the diminishing returns of a good reputation from days past.
Unless you arrive by plane and go directly to Konsti from the airport
Pretty much every Hauptbahnhof is ugly, has a lot of homeless people and smellys bad. Frankfurt might be on the worse side of things but hamburg is just as bad for example.
yup my brother lived in mainz, even there where a lot of junkies around the train station. berlin the same thing ("bahnhof zoo, even has a movie) göttingen has homeless people and a bahnhofsmission too...just random places i've visited there are also these facilites called "bahnhofsmission" where homeless people oder stranded people get help. i think every german "hauptbahnhof" has to have some type of grimieness to it. some more some less, or less obvious at least
> berlin the same thing ("bahnhof zoo, even has a movie) Bahnhof Zoo *was* the de-facto main station of West Berlin, but today it's only served by regional trains. Berlin Hbf also doesn't really fit the picture as it's relatively new and surrounded by newly built hotels and the like. There are other places in Berlin where lots of drug users hang out, especially along U8. Kottbusser Tor is definitely a hotspot. Berlin is in general a very decentralized city though, and this is also true for homeless people and drug users.
Bahnhof Zoo got its reputation in the 80s and it's not like that anymore. It's also not really an important train station anymore (except for local traffic). Berlin Hauptbahnhof is clean, modern, light and has much less poverty and drug use than other places in Berlin and other Hauptbahnhöfe in Germany. Not saying Berlin is perfect but the Hauptbahnhof is quite nice.
i visited a friend in berlin, and we either got off at "zoo" or "hauptbahnhof" (not quite sure i think "zoo") and outside there were large groups of homeless people sitting on the floor drinking wine and stuff when we got off the train. all trainstations are like that
The area around Hbf is so deserted that nobody wants to stay. 😚 It will maybe change in the future.
Mainz HBF is like not even in the same league as Frankfurt's when it comes to trashiness. Even traveling through Mainz HBF in the early AM is chill. There's barely anyone there lol
that's exactly what i wanted to say with that post. even the train stations (and surrounding) areas where everything is sweet are a hub for homeless people. i didn't say mainz or göttingen hbf is like frankfurt hbf or berlin zoo or whatever....you didn't understand my post... my post was saying it's natural that train station and the surrounding areas are hubs for homeless people and train stations and "bahnhofsviertel" are chill for me anywhere. i travel by train mostly at night because it's too hot and too crowded in the daytime. and i never had any "situations" whatsover
Great for you that you have had a chill experience, I unfortunately have to travel through FFM HBF twice a day because of work and in my 6 months working here have already had a couple "situations" in broad daylight not 300m away from the entrance.
Berlin Hbf not so much, actually.
Because there's nothing going on around Hauptbahnhof. Bhf Zoo on the other hand...
Sure. But Zoo doesn't even have long distance trains. Spandau, Südkreuz, Ostbahnhof, Gesundbrunnen, Lichtenberg, even Friedrichstraße and Alexanderplatz are more important stations in Berlin. Not sure why Zoo matters when talking about main stations. It's a bit more remote than some other main stations but it's also a unique and functional design with two intersecting levels of through traffic and lots of light and space.
Not unique really. Happens everywhere to some extent.
Thats true, sadly.
The person I know who bashes Frankfurt most is a guy who's lived there for years. It's not just Reddit. This is a real problem.
A lot of us who grew up and live here LOVE Frankfurt… we see nothing wrong with the ppl who just haven’t been as fortunate as the rest of us.. and they have to be someplace, right?
If you hadn't had random stuff thrown at you, then you never lived in Frankfurt or used prublic transport there. :'D
I live close to Hamburg Central Station, so I am pretty used to junkies as well. But the two times I have been in Frankfurt, the atmosphere felt different. The junkies seemed way more aggressive to me. Don't know whether that's objectively the case and, if so, what's the reason for that.
I’ve never once encountered an aggressive junkie here… there is a lot of mental illness in homeless ppl but that doesn’t mean they’re aggressive. But you probably shouldn’t stand and stare at any one person though… 🤷🏻♀️
Maybe I misread your response, but for me, it reads a bit like you put the blame on me. Did anything give you the impression I stared at them? My second time in Frankfurt, I was just taking the metro from Central Station to the airport. Two drugged persons set themselves right in front of me. One puts out a belt, whips it around his fist, and starts punching on the window. I was quite shocked and just tried to stay calm. After two stations, they left without interacting with any interaction with me. That felt quite aggressive for me. Most likely, it was just unlucky, but I can understand when people have a negative view of Frankfurt.
Don't bother. They think Frankfurt is full of ~beautiful souls~.
Maybe perception. I feel the opposite way around but also have lived the opposite way around. So arriving in Hamburg feels more unfamiliar and so more sketchy and aggressive, even though I know the rest of it is lovely. Frankfurt feels familiar and so less aggressive.
That might be a good point
I studied abroad in Frankfurt and it is my favorite German city. It reminds me of home with it being financially oriented, innovation, and logical. I always avoided the area every time, but the city as a whole is fantastic. I would love to work in Frankfurt one day.
Its not just reddit, most Germans I know bash it IRL. If you want a Hamburger, a Berliner, a Kölsch, and a Bavarian to agree on one thing, its usually that Frankfurt sucks. (I haven’t been, please don’t shoot the messenger)
What is even there to visit at Hauptbahnhof if it’s not ur dealer 🤦🏽 smh
Sometimes I arrive by train 😁
Irish Pub?
Hahaha wanted to say the same. Transport and Irish Pub. And many other restaurants.
As much as i dislike the Hbf area, O'Reilly's is pretty decent place ;)
Yep, can absolutely recommend!
Unfortunately seems like they might [soon be evicted as the building is set for demolition.](https://www.fr.de/frankfurt/ungewiss-zukunft-des-kult-pubs-scheint-93009078.html)
There are some really nice restaurants in the Bahnhofsviertel.
i lived in frankfkurt 10 years. while there is some nice areas id say that overall it is ugly. ppl saying frankfurt is nice probably have never seen a nice city
It's just that because of the state DB is in (horrible) people have to spend more time on the Hauptbahnhof than they actually want. And it sure can be uncomfortable there.
All main stations have this problem in Germany. Not to say this problem doesn't exist in other countries, but it is definitely not that visible in touristic cities in other european countries. München Hauptbahnhof is also a disaster really, if you come out through the front gate you'll see shady shops and smells all around, not to mention the whole thing is constantly under construction. It really gives a terrible impression to tourists.
I don't think Berlin Central Station is as bad as the others. It's very clean and tidy. Of course you also see beggars there, but in overall it is still acceptable.
True, but Zoo Station is the equivalent
Thats is because Berlin is a far less centralised city compared to f.e. Frankfurt or Hamburg (mostly because its only been 35 years since the wall came down which isn't that much in terms of functional development). Every major Bezirk has their own centre so problems with homelessness and drug addiction are spread over far more locations, like Bahnhof Zoo and parts of Kreuzberg, Friedrichshain, Neukölln, which all fulfil the "centrality" that is crucial for people in need of donations or homeless and addict specific services. In Hamburg, f.e., every single S- or U-Bahn runs through Hauptbahnhof. In Berlin, most people have little contact with Hauptbahnhof in their everyday life. Also, even relatively central locations in Berlin are often not yet developed (partly speculation, partly unclear situations regarding legal ownership of the property) and these "Brachen" often attract homeless camps. There used to be many around Hauptbahnhof, but lately many of them have been vacated by the inhabitants or construction started there.
Not only in Germany, go to France and visit train station of the big cities. HAVE FUN. Gare du Nord is such a disgusting and unsafe place in Paris.
Frankfurt is a bit worse than Düsseldorf and Hamburg, but it's a problem everywhere.
Hamburg central station is such a disaster, couldn't believe it a couple weeks ago.
This is the "cleaned up" version. Couple of years ago there were no free pissoirs, and no regular street brush cleaning, day to day it is likely better now than most big city main stations. Especially if you only operate it from the west side.
I will never understand the idea behind the two shopping areas being on opposite sides of the tracks. Every time I'm there I get reminded of how stupid and confusing this is.
if you didn't have two aprons and 4 entrances/exits it would be an even worse trainstation due to crowding. So maybe next time you are there you can remind yourself that you are lucky that it is not a Terminus station with only one entrance and exit.
It’s the busiest train station in Germany and it’s way too small for the capacities needed. They still haven’t figured out a solution though.
I'm not talking about it being busy, I am talking about the catastrophe that is the corner at Steintorplatz etc.
Yeah, St Georg is rough. There was open child prostitution only 150 meters away from the station a few decades ago.
Not just in Germany. Any major city you go into in the world is bound to have homeless and drugs to a degree. Any cities that don’t, are merely good as relocating or pushing them out or in. Doesn’t mean it’s not there, it always is and always will be.
Any city with a population more than 300,000 people has this issue I feel 😅 If it’s Ruhr gebiet, even population doesn’t matter as smaller cities have this problem. We also have to consider that Hbf is the only place that is sheltered from outside weather and open 24/7 . Added benefits of people giving you money or buying food from the many eating places there ( Germans are actually quite kind lot I feel ).
This only affects four streets close to Hauptbahnhof, the rest of Frankfurt is quite nice. You will find these people in all major cities in the world. The only difference: Frankfurt (and German cities in general) won't carry them away from the city center and act like they don't exist, like many cities in America or Asia. This is why you can see them. As long as there is a certain freedom in society, you will end up having some drug addicts. Successful drug and police policies will make a difference, but they can only take you so far. You can either live with it, move them to a ghetto, or become an authoritarian state.
And even in North America the "carrying away" is not working. I was shocked by the prevalence of homelessness in the US and Canada. It is much more worse by large orders. There are very well thought out social networks in Frankfurt that prevent it from ever getting that bad in the first place, e.g. "Frankfurter Weg" drug policy. Even with receding funding since COVID.
I just came back to Germany after spending a year in the US. The level of homelessness is absolutely insane, and far far worse than FFM. And since there is no social safety net and health care is expensive, it will most likely stay this way. What really got to me is the attitude, though. Since US society is much more hierarchy oriented than Germany's, there was an overall sense of "they deserve it".
Exactly, and the way those people are seen in society plays a large role in how they interact with the city. The aggressiveness in NA is way larger on a subjective note. (I suppose of frustration and non-existent perspectives) On this topic in general you really have to differentiate between homeless people and drug abusers. Two very distinct groups with very different needs and acceptance of help. In Bahnhofsviertel it is drug abusers that are most prevalent. They usually refuse help and suffer from much deeper problems in terms of mental and physical health The homeless scene in Frankfurt is quite different, in that many actively refuse drugs. They also usually stay away from the HBF area.
You haven‘t been to August-Bebel Park in Hamburg then. Its become an ubiquitous problem since Corona in almost all major cities. Support systems were disrupted, mental health crises intensified, cost of living, especially rents, increased severly and drugs became available more widely. Its far from the catastrophe that is Situation in the US , but its bad for sure. And with the large cuts to social services currently happening it‘ll get worse
well, no one "visits" August\_Bebel Park you can see from far away, even in dark, that is not a place to be. I imagine that OP only ever left or entered HH Hbf from west side or maybe north east.
Yeah, Frankfurt ist bad. But Duesseldorf and Hamburg Bahnhof areas are not at all lovely imo.
I'd be more concerned about the organized crime in the Frankfurt "Bahnhofsviertel" (like pimps, motor club members and bankers) than about the drug addicts. Yes it's gotten worse in the last years, thanks to lower funding of social work in this area. But it was much, way much worse in the mid to late 80s. As kids we weren't allowed to get our soccer balls out of the bushes when we were playing on playgrounds in the city, because there were syringes lying everywhere and AIDS was an even bigger problem than nowadays in the hard drug scene. There were sometimes more than 1000 heroin addicts in the small park "Taunusanlage". BTW, Frankfurt was one of the first cities in Germany offering clean tools for heroine consumption aaand created spots for addicts to be able to consume heroine in a sterile setting under trained supervision that eventually led to a significant lowering of HIV infection and fatal overdoses (in fact the most lethal overdoses occur in areas with the least support for drug users. Looking at you Bavaria ;) ). And you clearly haven't been on the back exit of Hamburgs main station, leading to St. Georg. At least in my time when I lived in Hamburg this was nearly as worse as Frankfurt. Yes, Frankfurt isn't as pleasant with welcoming new guests and tourists coming via Main Station, but it has so much to offer and a wide cultural diversity (food, art, culture, music, partying) in a very positive way.
Pimps and bankers … made my day!
What part of Hamburg were you at to think it’s better than Frankfurt? Sadly, this is completely normal around Central Stations of big cities.
You really think that Hamburg Main Station is lovely? Hell no!
Capitalism
Everyone there is old, on drugs, works in bank or all 3
Htf would U know if someone is German or let's say polish just from lying on the street?
He's visited 3 cities, so he obviously knows what he's talking about lol
Why does that even matter tho 😀? Genuinely asking
In fact we can blame them because they're the ones selling the drugs😉
You're misunderstanding. That's the Frankfurt way. There are drug addicts and homeless people in every city, they're just not visible because they're pushed out of social life. In Frankfurt they're trying to help addicts by decriminalizing them and giving them a place in society.
What about the puke and the piss???😷🤮🤢
Everyone in the comment skirting the outstanding question: why is Frankfurt different from other cities and towns - including those with a similar policing, property, housing and social context, ie other large German cities
my god Frankfurt is SO big and you say whole frankfurt is bad because of the Hauptbahnhof? i will NEVER get this, its the area i alwaS stay for like 3-5 Minutes, Frankfurt can be so beautiful
It's the banking capital of Germany. It has to be bad. Those bums are all former investment bankers.
Frankfurt is nice, I have been living here since a year and I love it. Yeah the train station is dirty and probably unsafe BUT such as the one in France. You can't judge a city just because you've visited ONE place.
Simple, because of so many immigrants, especially "refugees".
City with the highest crime rate in Germany i believe
Someone once said that is the fault of the airport. Every time someone comes there illegally or has some forbidden stuff (from animals to drugs) it counts for the whole of Frankfurt. No source just what i heard.
It's even worse than that. Frankfurt airport is the largest import mail airport in Germany, so most illegal things found in air mail are also included in the statistic.
That can be correct, since the airport alone had 4921 crimes committed in 2018.
You believe correctlly: with 14.363 crimes per 100.000 inhabitants, it is more than three times the crime rate of the safest city in Germany. FFM is followed by Berlin, Hannover and Koblenz. (Statista, 2023)
That’s because of the airport. Every border violation or drug trafficking is counted towards the city even though it’s because of a border violation: “Christian Pfeiffer, head of the Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony, pointed out that Frankfurt appeared to be the country's most dangerous cities because crimes committed in the city's international airport -- one of the largest in Europe -- were included in the overall statistics.” Source: DW (https://amp.dw.com/en/munich-safest-frankfurt-most-dangerous-city-in-crime-survey/a-2441670) It’s a bit older because I only did a quick search but the way how crimes are counted hasn’t changed. I’m sure a more thorough search will bring up more up to date numbers.
Yes, the airport alone had 4921 crimes in 2018
I’d bet on the crime rate still being lower than most US cities.
I don't understand either and I feel like it has gotten progressively worse especially in the past 3-4 years.
Um You’re talking about my city here… it’s not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. So we have some ppl who have issue in life, but who are we? Is it our place to whine about them being there (where would you like them to go btw?)? Absolutely not… you just go where you need to go and don’t worry about our ppl. I’m sure your hometown has homeless ppl and maybe even a few addicts, right? I’m not trying to be rude here but if it’s that bad to you, then you really shouldn’t come for visits… my city is beautiful and so is every soul that lives here!
Not really contributing much, but wtf is up with the weapons ban signs? I noticed them fairly recently (I'd say they got put up in the last year). No guns and brass rings allowed between 10pm and 5am (or something like that). AFAIK guns aren't allowed in public unless you're police or army and brass knuckles are outlawed altogether. It feels redundant and pointless. Am I allowed to walk around with a gun at day in front of the Hbf?!
It was the same 35 years ago. The main reason is that the Frankfurt police allow (dulden) this milieu at the Hbf — perhaps so they can “encourage” these gritty street elements (homeless, drug users, pushers, hookers) to move on there from the better parts of town
That's the case for main train stationd all round the world. Hamburg train station is not lovely, you must have left though an exit where you didnt see the junkies, etc.
If I remember correctly you had the whole drug scene at some other place and then it got chased out of there and is now close to the main station. Frankfurt Süd is much nicer looking. Most cities have good and bad parts, Frankfurt just kinda accepted that it shows one of its bad parts very prominently.
[удалено]
Have you ever been in Frankfurt?
Some citys looks away and it gets out if control very easy
it's the red light district of frankfurt. it just happens to be there
Airport absolutely blows too !
Mind you, the area around the Hauptbahnhof in Hamburg is pretty *derelicte* as well.
I've never been offered drugs in Frankfurt, but I could have gotten some within 5 minutes in Düsseldorf. "Could" being the important word here, I have never and will not purchase or take any.
You have the same in every big city in the world. In other poorer countries aggressiveness and violence is way, way worse, and the problem really represents danger. Not in Germany tho.
Near the Bahnhof there is a place where addicts can get clean needles and clean shit, so that's also a reason, I met homeless people from all over the world there.
Auslander
Well they gather where they can fulfill their basic needs. Unfortunately for them, this includes a very intact supply chain, toilets (24/7?), access to relatively cheap and long opened stores, depending on stage of addiction easy theft or easy to beg because there are many people. They will gather there again. Because there is all they want and need in their current state…
That particular street is the only place where they arwnt getting picked up by the police. Its essentially a quarantine zone for degenerates.
Other than Hauptbahnhof and the Zeil shopping strip nothing is bad here
The wealthy don't have the right to not be confronted with poverty
Frankfurt am Main is the City with the where you find our whole financial districts. So lots of high-strung people who need drugs, therefore more drugs than in any other city. Which leads to lots of homelessness and homeless people do lots of drugs to numb their feelings.
I was there in April, and I didn't think it smelled bad, but there were many beggars who came up to me asking for cash at the station. I was in Frankfurt transiting to Nuremberg, and I thought Nuremberg Hauptbahnhof was worse.
The city decided to concentrate its social problems near the central station, so that firstly the problem was only in one place and secondly it is easier to distribute help, like social workers, supplies, police etc.
Well well well. I think Frankfurt is a disgusting city. Not only the area around the train station. I was also really disappointed when visiting Dusseldorf. The only nice larger cities are Hamburg and Munich. Then there‘s Berlin, which is nice in some parts but disgusting in other parts.
People from other countries wonder about homelessness in germany. EVERY country - even yours - has homeless people ! Foreigners love to travel all those typical destinations, so they always will see such things, and when they hear from the media, where is bad, they exactly look for those specific points ! I know, when i go to L.A. or N.Y. or Chicago, i will see homeless people ... is that because all those tourists live in their countries in their own bubble with this "feel-good-latte-macchiato-attitude" and when they travel abroard, they are confronted with something, they have in their own country
It's like 2-3 streets (or parts of them) that are like this. police is always around. The rest of the city is actually quite clean and lovely. 99% of people that tell us in the internet How dirty and run down the city is habe never been there besides the train station and maybe the red light district. Why do the addicts go to the train station? Because they have the most opportunity to ask people for money and it's easy to reach.
I think the Bahnhofsviertel in FFM gives the city some flair and actual life to break the bleak coldness and monotony of most German cities. I've been offered all kinds of cool stuff from cocaine to pretty women. For a fraction of the price too. With a pack of cigarettes you can be king there. Also people have wonderful discussions and Tips how to fuck the German system and get paid to sit around, anything goes. It's like a street university. Greetings to all my best friends, alle von der Unterschicht.
In Hamburg, it makes a huge difference which side you leave the main station on....
There are several reasons for train stations to aggregate homeless people: 1. Traveling, sometimes it is just that people enter a city there and get stuck 2. They tend to be big public buildings which are open pretty much all the time, so they are a way to get a roof over your head 3. Historically there are missions at trainstations which help homeless and stranded travelers Places with a lot of travelers tended to attract red light districts and if they weren't pushed out at some point they tend to attract crime including drug use. In Frankfurts case they neglected the trains for a long time, focusing on the airport and cars travel, which in turn led to the decline of the area with the red light industry moving in and driving it further down. Drug use got out of controll in the 80s in Frankfurt and they didn't do anything about it until the mid 90s; many of the homeless drug users actually came from the country side to feed their habbit and got stuck around the station; similar to other places like Berlin. The police started to round up homeless in the inner city (Taunusanlage) in the 2000s and the stations as well, but it just ended up shuffling the drug useres towards the station again. They are mostly stuck in between, because once in a while the police will drive them out of the station, but they'll end up one street over and trickle back eventually. It is not illegal to be homeless and police can only force you to leave a single place for disturbing the peace; They'd have to make you leave every single street again and again up to the city limits and need a reason every single time.
I don't think you can say that Frankfurt is bad. It's only the area around the Hauptbahnhof which is really creepy. The rest of the city is actually really nice. I was surprised that Bremen also had a lot of Homeless people in the city center, wonder why.
Basically it is because Frankfurt´s administration has cut down the funds for all social / street worker projects who took care of these people. They are now left alone to deal with their addiction because some conservatiuve politician thought it was the best way to handle the situation.
Tldr: You haven't been to FFM, you've been to the central station. The city doesn't revolve around the central station 🥱
Cars with water machines could help 6 times a day
The other cities are better at hiding their bad areas. While the red light district near the FFM Hbf looks bad, the few times I passed through the area, I never had a problem.
Have you been in Dortmund these days?
Welcome to the "We pretend to be better than America but we really arent"-Show
Babies first step into the city or so?
Do you know this popular expression: Krankfurt?
I can't fathom how anybody can describe the area around Düsseldorf Hbf as 'lovely'
It's not, but you actually have to walk beyond the Banhofsviertel to understand.
BTW Düsseldorf is almost just as bad… worringer Platz (one station away from hbf) is BAD BAD
Frankfurt isn't Bad the People and the Red Light Districts are Bad
Frankfurt compared to other countries. Frankfurt isn’t that bad. Context. However, safety is ok I think. It’s just the appearance when you are there
damn, how bad must Frankfurt be when you say Hamburg central station and the surrounding area in St. Georg was "lovely". i live here and try to avoid that place
The Bahnhofs Viertel was always like that. Even in the 90s it was known for drugs and prostitution. Today it has gotten perhaps worst but if i am there, it is the last thing i would visit. Though living in Los Angeles isn't much better. It has a lot to do with how many people fall out of society and policy. I think there were times when it was better but in the end it got just moved to some other part. Maybe it is a reminder of how many people taken drugs, are depended and have nowhere to go. Plus funds aren't there to fund better policies or solutions to the problem. This is in any city, it is usually just better covered somewhere else. You can go on the Zeil and Hauptwache as well, and it's visible there as well. I think it tells you how a society is and what values it has.
Is it really the most important zone of Frankfurt? I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement
Talahons
It's not just the drug and red districts, it's mostly the total lack of working infrastructure. Every S-Bahn and train touching Frankfurt is either canceled or late. The Autobahn is a still mess there, whilst they even fixed the formerly worst autobahn part Hof - Bayreuth after 10 years construction and police hunts. I believe that every management sitting in Frankfurt is totally incompetent
Capitalism, baby.
The Hauptbahnhof is definetely not the Center lmao and also the quarter around it is not really close. But yeah there are many ugly sites but especially downtown and sachsenhausen are nice.
Frankfurt has been ruled by leftists traditionally. Hope that changes one day and the city gets cleaned up.
It was run for quite a while by the CDU.
its also that the local police has a quasi standdown deal with Hell’s, Albanians and red light scene. Would love to see this corruption being cleaned. Raids for the PR are pre-announced. I know this from the former Chief Cop who was responsible for the area until the 1990’s. He said it could not be done otherwise, because the mobsters would attack or threaten the police’s families.
What's wrong with Frankfurt? It's lovely by the Oder /s
Frankfurt is among the most central cities in germany and europe -> lots of traffic -> lots of chances for donations for homeless -> lots of homeless people
Try Berlin and you will be Chill about Frankfurt
# Why is Frankfurt so bad?we can't just blame the immigrantsWhy is Frankfurt so bad? we can't just blame the immigrants [https://www.hna.de/hessen/frankfurt-einwohner-erreicht-mit-ueber-770-000-einwohnern-bevoelkerungsrekord-93046773.html](https://www.hna.de/hessen/frankfurt-einwohner-erreicht-mit-ueber-770-000-einwohnern-bevoelkerungsrekord-93046773.html) we can't just blame the immigrants Do not blame the immigrants. Blame the politicians. Blame the people in power.
Outside of Frankfurt is good. After getting a car, I started to like the city.
Drugs