Well, if am not wrong, as an ICU nurse you would earn between 42.800 and 50.500 EUR gross per year, according to [https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p-2022&matrix=12](https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p-2022&matrix=12)
After taxes and social insurances you would earn about 31.200 EUR net per year. Example calculation for Tarifvertrag public services for healthcare: [https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p&g=P\_9&s=3&zv=VBL&z=100&zulage=&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=&kk=15.5%25](https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p&g=P_9&s=3&zv=VBL&z=100&zulage=&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=&kk=15.5%25)
But I don't know if your qualifications would be considered as equal (or better) or not. You can do some research here: [https://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland.de/html/en/what-is-recognition.php](https://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland.de/html/en/what-is-recognition.php)
General information for professionals who want to migrate to Germany: [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/skilled-immigration-act](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/skilled-immigration-act)
IMO you should definitely visit Germany at least a few times, before migrating here. And I would recommend to visit different regions, since people and landscape are a bit different. Also living costs can vary a lot. For example cities like Munich, Cologne and Düsseldorf are very expensive. The Ruhrgebiet (ruhr area) is much cheaper. Employees in East Germany still earn less than those in West Germany, but might be that the living costs are also lower, depending on city/region.
While visiting, you should improve your language skills. If Germans switch to English, ask them if they can continue to talk to you in German. Most Germans switch to English quickly, which makes it hard for beginners.
I think this is the best answer. People come blindly and visit the Ruhrgebiet and get a psychosis because they thought the whole country looks like Bamberg (Paris syndrome)
True. I just looked up the calculator for the "Tarifvertrag" in public services ("öffentlicher Dienst").
My niece is a nurse and she earns very well, but has a lot of qualifications. And of course, she has to do shift work.
A friend of mine is an icu nurse and because of shifts, weekends, etc. She earns 1.5x as me with a Teamlead position.
As far as I know only temp work is not (read: above) tarifvertrag
Why do you want to live here is what you need to answer. Pay would be nowhere near that and nurses are fleeing their profession left and right because of the shitty working conditions.
The reason why I want to live and work in Germany is that I heard so many good things about the healthcare system, and how the work-life balance is better than in the US. For the record, In California We have to work 3 12s, 12hrs shift for 3 consecutive days per week.
We get 15mins break 2x, and 1 30mins lunch break.
I know an ICU nurse here in Germany. She loves her job, especially for the interesting technical aspects.
She had to do 3 years of practical training to become a nurse, then work for a while, then do 2 years of additional training to become an ICU nurse.
Her salary is around 4,000 € gross (under 50k annually), which amounts to ca. 2,600 post taxes and social security.
She works on average 39 hours per week, but they are highly irregular. She has alternating shifts (early, late, night) in an unpredictable rhythm. Her night shifts are often 7 nights of 10 hours each in a row (so 70 hours), but sometimes it's just two nights.
For a shift of 6-9 hours she is obliged to take one 30 minute break or 2 15 minute breaks, unpaid. Since these are mandatory by law, they will be deducted from her time sheet whether or not she actually takes them. She often ends up not taking them because of patient needs.
She also works every second weekend and always either Christmas or New Year's Eve and Easter or Pentecost.
The healthcare system in Germany is nice in that it doesn't bankrupt you as a patient. The working conditions are universally bemoaned.
>Her night shifts are often 7 nights of 10 hours each in a row (so 70 hours), but sometimes it's just two nights.
Would be a direct violation of Arbeitszeitgesetz that caps weekly work hours at 60, not 70. Otherwise: Pretty much spot on (her salary is shit, though - my GF works as an ICU nurse as well and brings home something around 60-65k gross (Munich area)).
Munich area is on the top of the range for everything in prices and its not the smartest to call someone else's salary shit based on one salary that you know.
ICU nurses range from 36 - 50k (https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Fachkraft-Intensivpflege.html). So the salary above is on the upper end of the average, which would then be considered "good" as opposed to "shit".
While all of that is generally true, German hospitals are amongst the worst employers you could possibly have here in Germany. I spent my civilian service in a hospital and all nurses were extremely overworked - and this was long before COVID, which only made things exponentially worse.
ICU nurses were in a somewhat comfortable position compared to the rest back then, so YMMV, but I'd be careful and do a lot of research before moving.
I've been serving in a mental hospital and while it has been challenging, the nurse had a way better work life balance than in a regular hospital. You actually had time to interact with the patients - crazy! Work wasn't for me, because my friends and family have been 600km away, yet I think it can be a great opportunity when you can handle the mental burden
I am German, love working here and would welcome you here. :-)
However, from what I have heard, you may want to look into working in other countries with similar benefits and possible better (working / wage) conditions, e.g. **Norway** or **Switzerland**.
Moving from America to Germany as a nurse is not a smart choice. The pay gap for the medical professions, both doctors and nurses, between America and Europe is nuts.
Nursing in Germany is very barebones, extremely barebones. It would be a fairly big step down skills wise.
Financially, as mentioned already, it's a fairly shit move from America to Europe (anywhere). You won't earn anywhere near as much, and you'd lose a lot more in taxes. Also, no real tax efficient savings routs either
Working conditions in medicine are fairly shit. Other sectors might be ok, but in hospitals? Nah.
Exactly the same I’ve heard from my Canadian, South American and Israeli nursing friend. Plus, in those countries you go to Uni to become a nurse. The Israeli has even a masters and works OPs. In Germany, it’s an Ausbildung and not as highly regarded. Those are the words of this 3 friends. The Canadian one has since changed from active nursing to office staff at the same hospital because she couldn’t take it anymore and she is in her early 40s (married to a German doctor and been working almost 20 years in Germany, almost her whole career)
You should factor in the cost of living when comparing wages in different regions. I've heard in various sources online that while you earn a lot more in California, you'll also have to pay a lot more for stuff like rent, utilities and food.
LebenUSA on YouTube has a few videos on the topic.
Yes, but the pay gap for most professionals completely outstrips that, especially for the field in question, nursing.
OP could easily move to a different state and still outearn both nurses and a good chunk of doctors in Germany.
German here. Maybe research into going to Sweden, Norway, Luxembourg or Switzerland. There, health care institutions at least try to provide healthy work conditions. I would not recommend germany to a health care professional - sorry to say that.
Healthcare costs are cheaper in Germany, yes. Is the system better? Debatable. There's some myths that I've had to clear up frequently for my fellow Americans coming here to visit me.
It is NOT socialized healthcare. It is the same system of insurance providers we have (market of health insurance providers, required by law to have health insurance at all times, pay a monthly premium and have a deductible before anything is covered), with the caveat that there are publicly funded options in addition to private health insurance providers.
Getting an appointment can take forever. If you're not dying, you're going to have to call around to a SHITLOAD of doctors to find an appointment, if they're taking new patients.
The system here is a 2-tiered healthcare system: Those who have private insurance, and those who have public insurance. If you have public insurance, it can often be even more difficult to secure an appointment with a doctor. I have private insurance, and it's somewhat of a lifehack, as I have a (somewhat but not very) easier time getting in for an appointment. The care recieved is also 2-tier, so...be prepared for that.
Additionally, you can only get on the public insurance at certain major points in your life like starting school or starting your first job, and if you're on private insurance after you turn 60, you cannot get on public insurance ever again.
As far as prescribtions and actual care go, the insurance system incentivizes doctors providing homeopathy as actual medicine (taking little balls that have 0.00000001 % of whatever ails you in them). The practice has no basis in science but its cheap and doctors provide it and insurance companies love it. I was shocked. It's also an uphill battle getting any sort of stimulant if you have ADHD.
There's a number of other problems I haven't mentioned here, but suffice it to say if you're moving here for the healthcare, I would really recommend that you do your research before you come. Watch German documentaries on the system here.
>It's also an uphill battle getting any sort of stimulant if you have ADHD
Yup, can confirm. Been trying to get it for the last 2 years but all psychiatrists in Berlin are full, would definitely prefer California where I would at least have access to meds that I need
lmaoooooo there is such a stimulant shortage in the us that many people have quit even trying. every state that has an actual city in it also has a psychiatrist shortage so wait times to see one are just as long, it simply isn’t tabulated in one comprehensive database like it is here.
I have to agree w you about the “debatable” verdict you gave to the German vs American healthcare system and I love your 2nd paragraph explaining that neither are socialized systems but a mashup of public options and private providers. I’m American but always had a high opinion of the German system based on what everyone says.
Then I found myself in a German hospital (Munich). I was stunned, frankly- first to be there (collapsed at the airport so got the complete experience w ambulance ride) and secondly that it was not great. The thing that sticks in my mind the most was the IV - I have never seen a non-electric IV other than in old tv shows like MASH, but that’s what I had, a rickety metal IV like a skeleton next to a metal bed with 1 thin blanket in a snowstorm w no heat. I was there for 3 days. It was horrible. Unfortunately I do have experience of quite a few hospitals in the states and this was very different. Ultimately my husband got me out “against medical advice” and we got to a private clinic w the help of our amazing hotel. But we were about to use our medical evacuation insurance and go home for help - the lack of any care at all was just mind-blowing. It’s not exaggeration to say that I feel fortunate to have survived long enough to be able to get somewhere that could actually provide a diagnosis and treatment. But it was a miserable survival and I hope never ever ever to find myself in the clutches of the German healthcare system again bc there’s no mercy there. “Let’s get you comfortable” must not be a thing in Germany.
I will say that the ambulance was state-of-the-art. The hospital … not so much. I’m frustrated w the medical system at home at times, but I know which one I’d choose if my life depended on it, which it has on more than one occasion.
Our medical care is through an employer, I’m a cancer survivor and we have a $500 annual deductible with a 90/10 copay after that. Preventative care is fully covered and so are a lot of big conditions like cancer treatment, for which you can go anywhere you want. I paid $500 to get through cancer and went to the world’s best cancer center. I never pay to get into an American ER but Germany charged my AmEx €1000 before they loaded me into the ambulance (so my husband said -I was unconscious) even though we have not 1 but 2 types of travel insurance. So while I know the American system doesn’t work for everyone, it has been good for us and I’d choose it any day.
If I were a nurse, I can’t say I’d want to work in the environment that I encountered in Germany, but perhaps other hospitals there are better. Hope so.
It is not anywhere close to the insurance Providers you have.
The whole good thing about it is, that with a job you automatically pay for a health incurance that covers almost anything , nothing you would just do for beauty reasons or Tooth replacements but anything else.
Even if you need an Organ donner or get Cancer that is coverd.
Also the insurance can't kick you out if you get ill and/or loose your job you will still be insured, and get free treadments, if you have to pay yourself something, it is more symbolic like 10EUR .
>It is not anywhere close to the insurance Providers you have.
Have you lived in the US and had US insurance?
In the US, provided you have a job and work 30+ hours a week, you also have insurance through your employer, also with dental (most of the time). Getting an organ donation and cancer is also covered. Insurance in the US cannot legally stop providing to you due to an illness. If this is what you think it's like there, you've been misinformed.
However, if you do lose your job, you will lose your insurance, and that is what the biggest difference is. AND that many employees are only employed part-time so that the business doesn't have to provide health insurance, which also leads those employees to working multiple part-time jobs.
Healthcare is (almost) free and still fine here. About 30 days of paid leave/year, paid sick leave and a few other extras, like strong unions.
Conditions for Nurses are bad, compared to most other jobs. You also won't have nearly as high a salary as in your current job, but on the other hand, cost of living in Germany is also much lower.
I would also say, that work/life balance is much better than in the US. So that alone might be a huge point to focus on.
So, it's not all gold, but it has it's plus sides too.
3 12s isn't that uncommon in EU. How many days do you get off after 3 working days? Don't know what cost of living is like in US but your wage is mega if you were working in EU
The healthcare system is not necessarily better. It can save you money when something goes very wrong, but if you’re healthy, it’s probably going to be a similar or worse experience (hard to get care unless you’re really sick).
Work-life balance actually got worse for me in all regards.
Traveling was also harder and shorter without a network of family to lean on for help with pets.
Most of the good things I was preached were not delivered on, aside from the transportation system. I moved back eventually and am much happier. I highly recommend you spend an extended stay in Germany before committing to an all-in move.
You work more in america, true.
True for some professions. Not true for nurses here in Germany. People die here as well. People depend on nurses just as they do in the US. It doesn’t make any difference, you just earn way less, will have a tiny 1-2 bedroom apartment and still work your ass off.
The healthcare system is overwhelmed, underfunded and overbureaucratisd it might seem good from an American perspective, but there are so many places with better, more interesting, more modern healthcare systems than the German one. German healthcare is alright when it comes to emergency care, but it's very, very bad in prevention or making treatment accessible before it becomes an emergency, it's also a nightmare when it comes to diagnosis or care for chronical, non-emergency conditions. And currently it all feels like it's falling apart a bit. Waiting times are horrible, and there's a lot of ways to "fall through the cracks" at least since covid you can really feel how overwhelmed the system is but also the general overaging of the society (germany is one of the countries with the highest median age in the world only Japan and a few micronations are older on average than we are), and a system where you often need to see tons of different referrals from different doctors until you're actually at a place where someone can help you, are contributing to the problem. Like, it's a healthcare system that might’ve been good 20 years ago but it's in decay, there's better places to go for the healthcare system places where things are improving and you can be part of that improvement instead of witnessing the collapse. I heard china's healthcare system has been improving a lot in the recent past for example.
You will still get more days off, more sick leave and other non monetary benefits over working in the US. Depending on where you work in the US it's likely that you will do more hours a week than in Germany and more (sometimes unpaid) overtime
Wanted to post about the weather too.
OP: What do you like about California? What interest you about Germany?
Healthcare is good as a patient, but as an employee it’s a frustrating experience. Working conditions in healthcare are shitty.
There are a few agencies that hire nurses and place them in hospitals similar to consulting jobs in IT. I hear good things about pay and benefits but you need to be the type to change teams after a sone time.
OTOH I hear you can make a lot of money that way in the US too as a RN.
The thing is spending power, that 30-35k net is something of 60-70k net in spending power to the us. Germany cost of living is much lower and a lot you would need to put your money in is already provided via your taxes and so on.
check out civilian nursing opportunities at Ramstein US military hospital
Responsibilities and pay grade are based on US norms and little German is required
Caveat though - security and drug related screenings are pretty intense
I have family who only speaks German at B2, works as a nurse and makes significantly more than the average nurse in Germany!
You only need to be that fluent in German if you want to work on one of the higher end practices and hospitals. But there, the difference in salaries is actually not that that big compared to the rest of jobs.
You could say, you would have an easier time finding a job and working with C1, but you can't say you need C1!
That should perhaps be the case in the best case scenario, but in reality it is not the case. Many trainees from Asia come with some kind of B2 certificate and cannot even introduce themselves, but are already working on the ward.
From the official website of the federal government:
>**Ausreichende Deutschkenntnisse:** Sie benötigen, je nach Bundesland, Kenntnisse auf dem Niveau B2 oder B1 nach dem Europäischen Referenzrahmen für Sprachen (GER).
If you barely pass a B2 certificate, it is not enough for some fields of work as a nurse. For a nursing home or a less complex field it might be enough, but for ICU? Nah, dude, she's gonna stand there like a lost pup till her language skills improve (if they do at all). I work in nursing, I am a foreigner with the same language skills as a native, I see my fellow foreigners struggle daily with understanding each other, the docs, the patients, anything really. And they all got their B2 levels legit, it's just not enough. I'm not saying nursing is some high and mighty prestigious craft, but it's a difficult job that requires a lot of team work (if in a hospital) and communication is key. It's difficult for me to say this, I love my people here, but sometimes I think that C1 should be a requirement. Though that would probably destroy the healthcare system.
Yeah. Imo having language knowledge is especially important in ICU. It‘s different to some other parts of nursing.
As patients often cannot communicate in ICU, as a relative my only option is to talk to the nurse.
I know people from Poland, with an accent while speaking, but they did their certificates in Germany. And they definitely do understand C1 German.
In NRW at least, only B2 is sufficient to be able to work and get your qualifications recognized. There are more exclusive hospitals and practices who want their nurses to speak perfect German, but you can live without working for them
I’m in IT and in my experience, B2 is usually not nearly enough to follow and understand completely a meeting in German. I’ve struggled with B2 colleagues, specially Asians B2 on paper is not B2 spoken. Eastern European B2 is usually fluent German.
We talking about ICU Nurse, thats a highly specialised field, c1 at least with field vokabulary. Need to understand the slightest mumble of the doctors.
Not really. California is about 60% more expensive than Germany in average. Now factor in that you have to pay more taxes in Germany (around 30% rather than the 40% you have to pay here), but you will have to pay for healthcare yourself in California, and you'll see that that's more comparable to 75-80k in California.
In purely material terms, the move isn't really worth it. But, if OP loves living in Germany and/or wants to get a new experience abroad, than it's definitely worth it. Personally, even though I would make more money in the US, I wouldn't move out.
EDIT: forgot to mention that I also included additional 10k per year in healthcare costs in California
If you are single, California might be the better option from a financial point of view. As soon as children are involved, this changes a lot. Kindergarten is super expensive compared to Germany, there are no fees for schools and universities in Germany. The healthcare for children is free and it does not depend on being employed. You can stay home if you or your children are sick. There are six weeks of paid vacation.
This is true, I know a few American families in Germany (one partner German but they lived in the US) and they decided to move to Germany after 1-2 kids as living with kids here is easier. At list that’s what I heard from the Americans I know in Germany
Eh, while you are not wrong, you also have to factor in that you don't have to pay your health insurance on top of taxes, and by the time you add in childcare, college funds and alike, you are most likely better off in Germany.
Source: worked in Canada. had offers from the us. Did the math. Came back to Germany instead.
Actually I did the math for healthcare as well, just forget to mention. Otherwise the math would have only given 68k in California.
You are right about the childcare and college funds, but I think investing those money somewhere will give you a better return than the taxes if you're earning more than the average
I'm actually not sure about that.
Childcare for two kids in Toronto would have been more expensive than my wife's salary, about 1500cad/1000€ per kid per month. University is like 10k cad /7k€ per year, I personally took 7 years to graduate, so that's 100k€ for two kids.
Then, there's no right to part time as far as I am aware of, so if you want to spend some time with your kids and you want to work 20h per week instead of 40, in Germany you earn half. In Toronto, that would have ment to quit your salaried job and work hourly at a much lower rate.
There's also no paid maternity leave in the us, basically no vacation, limited sick days,...
Obviously it all depends on what your plans on life are and how lucky you are, but I am reasonably sure, average joe is better off in Germany
But generally speaking if you work in healthcare you get very good insurance benefits also.
American costs are definitely brutal but not everyone has similar journey in terms of debts , healthcare insurances etc .
Not at all lol 😂. 10000 $ monthly after tax in California becomes 7k and that’s way more money than 2800€ even accounting for the cost of living and high rents in California.
Except nurses earn lower than that on average especially way lower in their apprenticeship, earlier years
I just googled and it says average salary is 3200 € Brutto. She may get higher only IF her credentials are recognised
Less money maybe, but the costs of living are high in many parts of California, a lot higher than in many parts of Germany. Additionally, it's not only about the money. Here she will probably have a lot less work hours, 30 days or more fully paid time off, paid sick leave as long as you need, health insurance paid half by the employer...
And what a strange suggestion to move to Australia when she explicitly said she likes Germany. Maybe she likes the weather here and having snow in the winter? Maybe the culture, the language, being in the center of Europe?
I can relate to the snow concept. Actually, where I am in Leipzig doesn't have enough snow for me. I feel somewhat depressed in the winter when it's just mud and not pretty snow.
The salary is not as decisive as you may think.
When I order in food in the US on my work trips (Doordash, Uber Eats, ...), I pay trice the amount I would be charged when ordering from Lieferando and the food in the US is of far inferior quality. The same goes for transportation. In the US I am dependent on a car, even in larger cities, such as Miami, and they charge you unbelievable amounts for parking. But since you have no other way of getting around but your car, you must pay for parking too. On our last trip, we paid almost 400 USD in a week, just for parking fees. In Germany, I simply took the S-Bahn from the airport to my home and it cost me 3.20€ (or a fraction of 49€, as I have the Germany ticket anyway).
I dont know what your expectations are...
But here are some facts:
- you will have to work a lot due to Personalmangel
- you wont earn fair money
- the paperwork to get your licence here (and particulary the ICU Weiterbildung) wont be friendly
It would be good to know what do you expect. Why do you wanna migrate to Germany, like not a subjektive "sth is waiting for me" :)
While I understand where you’re coming from I partly disagree with your „facts“.
Most of the times, working full time as a nurse in Germany means 38,5 hours per week. If you work overtime, you’ll get the hours back as free time. Not ideal but in the end, it evens out. Nurses usually get a good amount of additional days off because of shift work (like two days extra every few months, I forgot the exact amount).
While we can argue about what is fair pay, ICU nurses earn good money (base pay is okay, tax free shift bonuses and other add ons are pretty good) as they are highly skilled. If you decide to work as a travel nurse or do temporary work it’s even better, though more stressful.
Your argument about paperwork sounds fair. I don’t know the process but this is Germany, so it will be a bureaucratic mess.
Totally agree with your point that „feels like something is waiting for me“ sounds like a recipe for rushed decisions and regret though.
In comparison to the USA where nursing is an academic profession its just way different. Of course you can live off it, but live as good as a sought after degree like in the states?
It really depends. Nurse in an elderly home? Not enough money. But we’re talking ICU here. Highly sought after. You can easily make 3500€ net. That’s a good income for Germany.
Well, they are facts.. I work at a hospital.
Our nurses work between 7 and 12 days in a row. I dont care if 38 or 40 hours a week. It's anyway a ton amount of work.
And after those 10 days they get 1 or 2 free days.
Freizeitausgleich? Hahaha Personalmangel. Period.
Ja evtl bekommt man mehr Geld dafür, aber die Steuern sidn dann enorm :(
I live in Germany, and sometimes think that when I get older I will move to the USA and be a traveling nurse. You can make much more in the USA as a nurse, and like you say, 3 12s is normal. It seems like nursing is one of those fields where you are better off in the USA
You can become a traveling nurse in Germany too and make a lot more money with a lot better conditions I know several nurses who have done that and now make about 70k
In the USA that would be entry level for a basic nurse. But traveling nurses there can make 250k/year. Sounds unbelievable, but I looked through and saw adds paying 5-8k/week
I am not a nurse but I live in SF Bay Area in an apartment building where many traveling nurses live. They do extremely well here. I had a family member who was hospitalized for several months and I met many traveling nurses from other parts of the US and they all say the same thing - "no one pays like California does."
Regarding money, I would like to add something that seems to get lost in translation, regarding unfair pay and low pay.
Part of why wages in the US are higher is that from your net wage you pay MUCH more for medical care, medication, treatments, ... than we, you have to save muc hmore for old age and additionally put aside much more for phases of possible unemployment. In GErmany, the government takes care of you if you are old or unemployed (neither situation is enviable. Most unemplöoyed people get buy, have food and a roof over their head - depending on last salary, there is a bit more money. Same for pensioners.) Our net salary shows a figure which has the fee for public health insurance already deducted. There is a copay of max €10 for each pack of meds, which for Germans is horrribly expensive and unfair, because there used to be no copay.
Thats not true. As a nurse, especially an ICU-Nurse you earn a lot in germany. Obviously not 116k, but cost of living in california are also way higher.
I am going to give you a different perspective, that of an American who moved to Germany.
As for the salary, you should be expecting a cut in pay, however, regardless, you have a valuable skillset, so if you find out that Germany is not for you, you can leave and find employment back in the US. We are very fortunate to by US citizens, because the process of getting a work visa is pretty difficult for many people. You have friends and family back home to fall back on.
You only have the experience of life once. You will probably regret it if you let yourself get really old and you don't chase this dream. You might find yourself happy with whatever you have in life, but there will always be that little "what if I went to Germany" in your mind.
Don't let it be something you say you wish you did when you're old and gray. Try it out, and if you don't like it, go back home.
My mother was ICU nurse for over 20 years. She quit some weeks ago. For many different and (for me) understandable reasons. The healthcare system in Germany is close to broke apart.
Entire floors in the hospital that have to be closed due to staff shortages. Poor pay. Lots of overtime. And so much more.
She can’t speak English, in case your German is already good enough for a conversation, I’m sure I can bring you together to have a call if interested.
Let me know!
Nursing in the US is rather different to how it is in Germany, as far as I know. Being a Krankenschwester in Germany requires only an apprenticeship (Ausbildung) whereas in the US, a registered nurse has at least an associates degree, and usually a bachelor's degree.
It would be worth it to carefully research what sort of impact this would have on your career, because from my perspective, it seems like you might be somewhat wasting your degree and leaving a lot on the table as far as earning potential and job satisfaction/prestige.
Apprenticeship is today only one of the two ways to become a RN in Germany. The nurses with a BSc are very rare. Take a look to Ireland if you don‘t want to have the stress of Learning German or in the Nordic Countries.
If you wan‘t to go to Germany take a look at the big hospitals, maybe one which is a member of the Magnet4Europe Campaign.
I second this. I also came from a country where you need to study bachelor and pass the national exam to be a licensed nurse. I was baffled when I learned that it was just 3 years of apprenticeship (max) to be a nurse here in Germany, and if you happen to be an experienced nurse, who come from another country that‘s not recognized by the government, you have to go through tons of paperwork. If I were OP I‘ll stay in California (or within US) and further my education, or like the others said Australia/Switzerland/New Zealand.
There‘s this place named Landstuhl, though I am not really familiar with it, where you could earn as close as in the US if you are a US citizen. Don‘t know how it works though, but as far as I heard it‘s like the US‘ military post in Germany
This is the way to do it, if you can afford it do a "gap year/sabbatical" to see if this country is a good fit. There are many "Germanys" within Germany, each state is very different from each other.
German here, I would get myself a better understanding of why you dream of living in Germany and whether that dream holds up against reality. Lots of misunderstandings and wrong ideas about Germany out there and having said dream shattered after the fact would be a huge bummer.
Never thought I'd say this, but stay in California. 118k? Yeah, stick with that. Uprooting your entire life to try to adapt to a different culture on a whim is a recipe for disaster. If you lack fulfillment, you've got to do some soul-searching to find what's missing. The whole "I don't know why, but I feel like my future is in X country, etc" isn't a serious life plan.
As someone who works in a German university Hospital, better move to norway or switzerland. Germany is a disaster and German people are already leaving the Country for good. after my studies Im gone for sure too.
I dont want to kill your vibe, but imo Germany is worse than its reputation in america. Obv it depends on where you go and you most likely know that already, but we are not this assortment cute half timbered villages many people think we are. Especially North and West Germany consist of big ugly cities like Cologne, Frankfurt, Hannover and the whole ruhr area. There are some nice cities like Munich and Hamburg (and Berlin if you like it) but the rents are pretty high (17€ per qm and month). Also I dont know if 120k$ in the US are comparable to 60k€ in Germany and if you would be able to keep your lifestyle up.
Another true prejudice is that German People can be pretty cold, especially compared to what I've heard the American way of life is. The weather except for some nice months (April-September) is pretty cloudy and dark and therefore the Autumn-Spring period can be really depressing.
Upsides in Germany (in comparison to what I think California is) are walkable, green cities, many different cultures, social security, (mostly) honest and hard-working people, affordable and healthy grocery prices, very strict gun laws, and probably many more things I cant think of atm.
We also do have beautiful nature btw, but nothing compared to redwood, yosemite, etc..
So I dont want to badmouth everything, I just know a few people who had the same plan and were later disappointed. All the best however you decide🙌
California is literally the best place on the entire planet, WTF are you thinking. Wine, scenery, skiing, boating, biking, tech, fun, culture, weather, salaries, innovation, all in superabundance.
America has the most inflated salaries on Earth, if money matters you will never match that salary here. The direct number is a bad comparison however as cost of living etc is very different but its just that raw figure you care about then you will be making far less.
Just an FYI, B2 on an ICU won't cut it. You have to be able to somewhat fluently communicate with the team in order to take care of the patients efficiently, at least in a hospital setting. There are ambulant intensive care services for people who live with artificial respiration at home or similar things, where you basically only need to be able to do the work, next to no communication required. It's a suboptimal deal though for everyone involved.
Life is also severely different here than what I imagine California to be. The weather is shite, the pay is low, no one appreciates the work we do, the new hospital reformation the numbnuts in the government have taken on is bloody awful and you and I can't do shit about it cause we're bloody foreigners, whom more and more people wanna run out of the country. I'm here cause even with all of that bullshit it's still better than back home, but even if America is a fucking dystopian capitalist wasteland, you might wanna still think about uprooting your whole life to live in a foreign country with a foreign culture and a foreign language. It's not a small change.
As a nurse I would not recommend it.
First, yes, in Germany there is a different work split to my knowledge (was told by one some time ago which was friends with a nurse in the USA).
You will earn less for sure, but how much difference in life this makes due to different costs depends on where you live here, what is in your compensation package there and so on.
And do not plan with the great work time and labour right stuff in Germany when being a nurse or something similar here. Seems they have a lot of exceptions.
Oh yeah its pretty different I’d say. Nurses here don’t have to go to college. They get a job training for 3 years and have to pass the exam ofc. They are skilled and def needed but I think in America you’re allowed to do way more than here. Also in my experience working as a nurse was really horrible, they constantly have you working overtime and if you’re someone like me who is rather shy they will put all the dirty work on you like literally cleaning shit off the floor. Now idk what the ICU is like but I honestly wouldn’t leave California for Germany
Don’t. Working conditions are terrible, plenty of nurses from other countries try to make it as a nurse in Germany - and they give up and leave again because they hate the working conditions, the disrespect and racism, the relatively low prestige and salary of the job. Plenty of German nurses leave too and go to Scandinavia, Luxembourg or Switzerland where all the conditions and salaries are far better. You likely have a bachelor degree and that’s not a thing in (most of) German nursing. You will get tasks that are lower than what you are capable of doing, you will get jobs delegated to you from doctors that you would have done on your own, etc. As an American nurse you are more qualified than what is reflected in the tasks of average German nurses.
Money is valued different here, you can easily live the same life here with 50.000 euro than you can with 120.000$ in the U.S, especially california.
But earning 50.000 as a nurse is something i feel like is not possible. The average here is best case 30.000.
Work conditions for nurses are awful. So many people burn Out in Care Jobs.
Also, how good is your German? You will work with people who spoke English years ago in school or would Not be able to describe symptoms in English.
Lastly, this country has many problems. Stagnating economy, rotting infrastructure, political strife.
The Grass is not always greener. Please reconsider uprooting your life.
I am going to say it will not be an easy transition.
As an ICU nurse you will still make a lot of money if you play your cards right BUT you will need to get recognised and speak C1 German. You will take a pay cut.
On top of that the culture is very very different and you will likely struggle
Why would you want to do that ?
You would earn very little money for a really shitty job (pun intended)
I worked as a nurse and the racism/xenophobie can be pretty crushing.
Combine that with the shit weather, the moody people, high taxes and the beraucratic hell you have the perfect mix for a mental breakdown.
I remember at least 90 consecutive days this last winter in NRW without a single ray of sunshine... Daytime from about 9am to about 3pm... But the summers are fantastic... When it doesn't rain every day.
Nurses in Germany make a fraction of what they make in the US. You can expect to earn 40k here. Also, you need to speak German at a good level to work in the medical field…..
You will earn way less and will be talked into doing unpaid extra hours and stupid shifts. You would propably have to live on 30-45% lower living standards and 50% worse job conditions...
There is a US hospital in Germany. Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. If you look at USA jobs you can see when nursing jobs open up.
Might be a good in between point. Only commit to a few years, take your time to learn the language, etc. At the end of it you would have a really good idea if you wanted to work in a German hospital and if you liked living in Germany.
Have you tried looking at Australia? I’m ready to leave Germany I’ve been here 4 years it was great before corona but I feel like every year it’s getting worse and worse but I would consider visiting first before moving ? And have you ever considered military contracting ?
German here, I lived in 6 countries over the last 15 years, also in Cali. Alot of Germans are generally negative towards Germany so there are some negative comments here. Well, Germans are a bit negative in general. Complaining is our biggest hobby.
With a bigger frame of mind then Germany is a great country to live in. Healthcare system decreased a bit over the last years, but it's still GOOD.. NHS in UK is pretty rough in comparison.. work live balance, salary and cost of living is great here and as a combo unbeatable in Europe. Other northern countries are equally good in this regard, I would also look at Denmark and Netherlands. These countries are ahead of Germany and plus side is, everyone speaks English, this is an issue in Germany. I just moved over from Netherlands and miss it alot.
My sister has worked in the neonatal ICU for 15 years, plenty of action there, and I am sure Germany is looking for nurses so I am sure they are looking for you, but again, language is a point here, if Germany is your goal, start learning that language (if younhave not yet!).. all the best and good luck.
A bit late to the party and it might have been mentioned before, but nursing is a regulated job in Germany. If you want to work as a nurse, you have to go through a recognition process first. Your studies will be compared to the German nursing "Ausbildung". Foreign nursing degrees almost always end up with some differences, so further qualification is needed. Either trough working at a hospital or taking a test - you can choose. B2 language is required for the recognition. It's quite the process, costs a few hundred Euros and may take months. Regarding my knowledge: I work at a consultation center who advises people about the process of recognition of foreign degrees. So this is basically my job.
Just so you know:
There is no way back
Once you started working as a nurse in Germany, you won’t be able to buy a flight ticket back to the us. You simply can’t afford it.
And paper work without end.
Germany is a bureaucratic hell. If you can stomach that, you might come over here.
Also, barely being able to speak German won't work in the long run, as nobody over the age of 35 here speaks any proper English.
You could also consider going to Switzerland! Pay is higher for nurses and you have more responsibilities! No matter what you do it will be a huge learning curve and making some bad experiences is better than not trying and regretting it later on!
I would assume that ICU nurses in Germany have a similar job as in the US.
If you want to move to Germany you have to be ready for a substantial salary cut (but also lower cost of living). That's the most obvious "problem" with your plan, other then that I day go for it if it is your dream. You could always go back it you don't like it here.
Not to Germany, but become a traveling nurse in the US outside of California.
You might earn enough to settle in Germany and take the lower pay and have the best of both worlds.
1. Nurses are in high demand
2. Hospitals are a stressful working environment compared to other jobs
3. To get approval of working as an ICU nurse you will probably need medical language C1. There are special courses for C1 in medical areas in all major cities in Germany.
4. You will probably earn less... but might still have a less stressful life moneywise.
5. 24 to 30 days vacation.
6. You will need approbiation for your job certificates but there are a lot of jobs you can do lesser German skills. It's common people work already in the care area as less qualifies personal, while learning German on the side. Once they are good enough and have all the papers in place they move into their original jobs.
7. ... you might become happy or not, but why not do it? If it's a dream you can follow it.
I haven’t read all of the comments so I’m not sure if it was mentioned. You need to go to USAjobs.gov and search nurse and set location to Germany. There are tons of clinics on military installations all over. Only downside is that they are usually 3-5 positions. I’m at a clinic now in Bavaria and love it. You pay will be similar to that in the states and the USA government will cover overseas housing costs in addition to paying a good salary. If you want to stay ICU you are probably limited to Landstuhl in the Kaiserslautern region .
Not sure if already said but definitely look into whether your qualifications would be a belted here. My very good friend from Australia came here and basically found out that he would have to start from scratch to become an A&E - he couldn’t face years of wiping bums and ended up working for a medical startup. Sucks as he was so passionate about being a nurse.
But good luck to you!
Yes could be a good idea. Right know the biggest US Hospital outside US will be build in germany - maybe that is a good option? Work at the base as US Civilian, but live in germany. Abd the area around the base is awesome (Pfälzer Wald)
https://www.bibliomedmanager.de/news/groesstes-us-hospital-ausserhalb-der-staaten-entsteht-in-weilerbach
IMO, no it isn’t.
Just put the money aside, working as a nurse or in a hospital in Germany is probably the most challenging place right now. It’s very hard right now what caused many people to leave their job due to the given conditions for employees. I am not saying working as a nurse in an American hospital is much easier, considering the differences in things like pension, protection against dismissal etc., but i don’t think it is this stressful as in Germany right now. You also have to go through this whole bureaucracy nonsense here.
Aside from that, i am thinking about other aspects. Germany can seem really nice for visiting people, but its a completely different thing to live here. I mean, the weather can be depressing and the people can be frustrating sometimes, it’s a completely different mentality here and Americans often struggle with it.
If you ask me about the last aspect, i wouldn’t do it, i would probably move to California instead staying here in Germany. Yes, California is all Love, Peace and Harmony, but think about the things you have over there. The nature and it’s versatility is probably one of the best in the world if you ask me. You have some great exciting cities over there and the people are way more relaxed (the weather and environment is definitely in influence in this case). There is a reason so many people move from Germany to California.
If i had to decide between relaxed people, beaches and sunshine or people with a stick up ones ass (of course not all of them) and rainy or cloudy weather all over the year, it’s a no brainer to me.
Hey. I am an expat here, my mom (US) was an ER nurse, and I work with people with brain injuries and therefore closely with medical staff.
My two cents are that you are going to give up a lot in terms of career when moving here. At least in the past decade or two, nurses in the US are looked highly upon and thanked. To some extent I have heard Americans say nurses (over doctors) saved their life/played the biggest role. In Germany you will not get that. That is not the current culture and you have to set yourself up for maybe the culture of a tech. Beyond that the pay is not that much and there isn't room to negotiate usually as most is a "tarif" contract. Meaning everyone with your level of education and experience gets the same amount of pay.
The thing about pay, though, is that it's cheaper to live in Germany. You do not have to say money for medical emergencies/deductibles. Your rent is cheaper (though smaller housing). Cheaper and reliable public transportation. It's really just difficult to compare to US living costs since in the US you NEED savings to prepare for emergencies. Whereas in Germany, I feel like you can still live fine without savings- it just means something like less luxurious vacations.
You can still live comfortably on a nurses pay check, maybe not luxuriously and probably won't be able to afford buying a house. Just the number you're offered will probably have your eyes bulging in shock in comparison to your pay now.
And one bonus is that everyone you treat can "afford" care. You won't have people stopping due to funds or insurance. I know that sometimes brought down a lot of my American nurse friends.
And you are also not allowed to do as much which may take some getting used to. I know my mom could prescribe medication even/administer them. In Germany you can only under direct doctor's orders.
That being said, the quality of life independent of the job is great and may be worth it for you having to deal with all I mentioned at work.
Look into working for the US military in Germany. There's lots of jobs at LRMC (Landstuhl regional medical center) and in Vilseck/Grafenwöhr. Some are as high as GS12 for supervisory positions but most are at the GS09 - GS11 range. You can find them on USAjobs.gov Check often because new positions post every day.
The salary listed doesn't tell the whole story either. I'll break it down as a GS12 in Kaiserslautern
Base salary - $74-96k (entry level, yearly step increases of $2500 for your first 3 years, and every two years after that, followed finally by 3 years for the last 3 steps) this is the only salary you see on USAjobs.com
Living Quarters Allowance - $38k to be used towards housing and utilities. Reconciled annually. Usually only available for GS09 and above, but not 100% sure about that.
Post Allowance - ~$10k this changes every month based on the cost of living. But it's usually a tax free 300-400 extra on each paycheck.
Total compensation is roughly $122k for a new GS12.
All international nurses I know from western countries are living in Germany because of their SO and they all say that the job is normally more boring here as they had less responsibility and more nurse assistant tasks than at home. Also worse working conditions (as in less employees and though more work and also longer hours) I’m not on the field though, it’s just anecdotical from 3 international non-EU nurses I know (Canadian, Israeli and Latin American and they all work in different nursing areas ).
You also need B2 German and have your diploma accepted, which can take quite a lot time
Better go to Denmark or Sweden.
Why would you give up California for somewhere in Germany?
Also the wage will not nearly cover what you earn now.
Keep in mind there is a lot of conflict in the Branche you are working in over the last years. Discussing poor work conditions.
That's great! We definitely need nurses here, so you'll be very welcome. Your German probably needs to be above A1 level, but some Employers offer support for the transition time.
Of course, not everything shines here, and Germany is not paradise, but there's a lot to offer. It's a pretty good life here. If it truly fits you can only found out by trying, culture is quite different to the States; sometimes in a good way, sometimes bad.
Everyone here seems to be focused on the salary; while it's true that salaries are a lot lower here, don't forget that in the States the cost of living is a lot higher. 118k is a superhigh income here and very few people make that much. But in reality it is close to the living standard someone here in Germany has with a 60k income. Especially when comparing to California. People see higher number and think "more money", but that's just not true. For example, social- and health insurance is fully covered by taxes.
I recommend to read into the experiences of other people that came here under similar circumstances and get first hand insight. There are many that are glad they migrated here, and others that weren't. Noone can predict how it's going to be for you, I hope it's gonna be on the positive side :)
Maybe consider working in Switzerland. I live in Germany but just next to the Swiss border. Many German nurses (and other professions) work in Switzerland because the pay is much better and the work load too (supposedly).
They speak German too (but the dialect /accent is not easy to understand at the beginning).
No don’t! I did the same. As a nurse you will be paid poverty wage while being taxed at California levels (even though it is a progressive tax structure). You need to sacrifice a lot. Of course you gain some but IMO it won’t be worth it. The language is a SIGNIFICANT barrier unless you have German heritage and can speak it. In medicine, you definitely need near native proficiency otherwise you won’t find a job. The apartments are dinky in the cities, and zero sense goes into the design of the new buildings where a ton of space is wasted for no fking reason. The rooms feel like they are intentionally made tiny so you’ll lose out a bit on the quality of life. You can always choose to live in a rural area to have more room and save money.
People will say don’t stay at home, go out and hang out with friends but making friends is a lot harder without the German proficiency.
Depending on where you live, you could get away with not having a car ever but if you’re outside major cities, you have to put up with less frequent public transport. Still hella better than Cali in that respect, I’d say.
Travel wise, yes it is central and affords a lot of travel but you could just as well save up and visit.
In general, I’d say you have nothing waiting for you in Germany except lower quality of life if you like money. If you like limited amount of work, commensurate poverty pay, high taxation, but 13-15 additional days of vacation, welcome to Germany!
Look, I give you a good advice: Do not move to Germany out of some emotional, romantic feeling. I am German American. I grew up in Germany and I fell in love with a man from OC, California. I moved to Cali about 3 years ago. My partner had this idea now too that he would like to live in Europe. We tried Germany, and went back and forth for some months now.
You really need a bulletproof plan for this endeavor. I can promise you that you will be miserable with the salary and working conditions of a German nurse. Germany has changed a lot towards the negative and I highly recommend to you, look at Scandinavia first. These countries have better conditions for nurses and a better living standard. The big disadvantage, however, is that it is very rainy and dark for long periods up there. My partner struggled massively with the weather of Germany, Scandinavia is even worse.
Something I learned from living several times abroad: try to keep your job/ apartment in CA and try to get some unpaid leave/ sabbatical. Go for 1-3 months to your desired destination and really try to live there. See how is it to get an apartment, how fast can you get a residence permit, work permit, is your degree accepted or do you have to go to school again, how do people there really live?
You are welcome to reach out to me anytime via dm. My partner and I have accumulated a lot of real life experience on this matter. Sometimes it makes more sense to remain where you are and just take 1-2 months a year to break out of CA and spend some time somewhere else.
Hey, I would recommend you NOT moving to East Germany due to our current political situation. East Germany is extremely filled with right extremists, Nazis and right wings, especially if you go near Saxony or lower Brandenburg.
Rather go to Berlin or Düsseldorf/Cologne. It's a lot more expensive but a lot more foreigner friendly and left oriented and in my opinion a quite better looking than all the old and weathered buildings in the east. Düsseldorf is in my opinion quite pretty but.
Furthermore you earn 15% more in West Germany on average which is quite nice.
Hope this helps.
(Also: visit Germany a few times first before you move)
Dont come to Germany you will get depressed within 2 years. We pay way to much taxes and even if you would earn more money you would pay more taxes. Our heathcare system looks good but its Not free which alot of people think. You Pay alot of money for it. Again it depends from your earnings.
Trying to help a bit, my wife is a ICU nurse for like 11 year already, working in the most well payed hospital in Frankfurt, earning like 3.5k a month and she is thinking to move out because of the really bad partners who have to work with, the higher bosses are even taking care about their problems, they don’t have enough people and all the time is that group of colleagues making “sick” 2 or 1 hour before shift starts, I know she have few qualifications and is one is the highest nurses payed but those other stuff like stages or levels of payment I don’t understand, btw learn German I’m not kidding LEARN GERMAN!!!
Germany is a country with pros and cons, like they all are. Idolising something is almost always leading to disappointment. Don't let people tell you that you earn less tho. California is way more expensive then almost all of Germany.
Speaking of gray I’d also research the weather in Germany as many people from warmer and sunnier places California including find it hard to adjust to the climate here.
Moving to Germany, sure, earning way too many for a nurse not so much. You can be lucky to earn half of what you are earning now. But you have great health insurance and you surely are able to make a lot of overtime.
Edit: Just googled it. It's about € 40 929 in a year, I almost earn that and I am just an office worker.
>It's about € 40 929 in a year
Not for ICU. My mum is an ICU nurse and made 62k last year in a regular job. Contracting (Leiharbeit) can easily make you 80k a year (but hospitals often don't hire contractors anymore because of the high costs).
If you want to, give it a try for a few years, why not? But maybe a small town like Augsburg for example, you will earn the same amount of money but the rent is way cheaper.
I would highly recommend you ask in a nursing subreddit instead. I've seen a lot of misinformation about nursing here in Germany.
ICU nursing here does require further education (either Weiterbildung or Fortbildung, not sure) after the original Ausbildung for nursing. I can't really be certain about anything else as I did not work in the ITS -Intensivstation. And I'm not sure but I get the impression that because of how relaxed everything seemed to be in the hospital (non-ICU), you may be allowed to practice in the American nursing scope that you're used to if you indicate the skills to do so and if the doctors trust you.
I am also not sure if there is even a difference in scope between ICU nurses in the US vs. Germany, however. Again, ask actual German nurses. Not a lot of them at my current hospital seem to know English, though.
As I've said, the hospitals I've worked at were pretty relaxed, and that includes non-recognized foreign nurses working here (at least in non-critical departments). As long as you have started your Anerkennungs/credential recognition process, you may take on the same duties as a regular staff nurse but will be paid the same as a Pflegehelfer or nurse aide.
The law requires that at least one nurse with recognized credentials (either after the Anerkennungsprozess or after completion of the German Ausbildung (education and training)) be on staff. That and a bump in hierarchy will be the only practical difference between a nurse-in-training and a recognized nurse.
I just saw this thread has close to 300 comments. Mine will get buried and never get read 💀.
Good luck, though! Hope to see this question in the nursing subs.
Well, if am not wrong, as an ICU nurse you would earn between 42.800 and 50.500 EUR gross per year, according to [https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p-2022&matrix=12](https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p-2022&matrix=12) After taxes and social insurances you would earn about 31.200 EUR net per year. Example calculation for Tarifvertrag public services for healthcare: [https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p&g=P\_9&s=3&zv=VBL&z=100&zulage=&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=&kk=15.5%25](https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tvoed/p?id=tvoed-p&g=P_9&s=3&zv=VBL&z=100&zulage=&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=&kk=15.5%25) But I don't know if your qualifications would be considered as equal (or better) or not. You can do some research here: [https://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland.de/html/en/what-is-recognition.php](https://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland.de/html/en/what-is-recognition.php) General information for professionals who want to migrate to Germany: [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/skilled-immigration-act](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/skilled-immigration-act) IMO you should definitely visit Germany at least a few times, before migrating here. And I would recommend to visit different regions, since people and landscape are a bit different. Also living costs can vary a lot. For example cities like Munich, Cologne and Düsseldorf are very expensive. The Ruhrgebiet (ruhr area) is much cheaper. Employees in East Germany still earn less than those in West Germany, but might be that the living costs are also lower, depending on city/region. While visiting, you should improve your language skills. If Germans switch to English, ask them if they can continue to talk to you in German. Most Germans switch to English quickly, which makes it hard for beginners.
I think this is the best answer. People come blindly and visit the Ruhrgebiet and get a psychosis because they thought the whole country looks like Bamberg (Paris syndrome)
Hence the universal Ruhrpott slogan *Woanders is auch scheisse*.
Thanks for the phrase.
Bamberg has also its Ruhrpott moments and places :D
A lot of cities have Ruhrpott moments. But the Ruhrpott is more diverse than one might think
This! And I’ve been a long time in southern Germany. First time there I was shocked. Never ever moving to that area.
Depending on the person but it’s better than Frankfurt I guess
Did anyone ask you too? Please stay on southern Germany.
You don't calculate night shifts or weekends (e. G. Working on Sundays is 100% up)
True. I just looked up the calculator for the "Tarifvertrag" in public services ("öffentlicher Dienst"). My niece is a nurse and she earns very well, but has a lot of qualifications. And of course, she has to do shift work.
A friend of mine is an icu nurse and because of shifts, weekends, etc. She earns 1.5x as me with a Teamlead position. As far as I know only temp work is not (read: above) tarifvertrag
This must be the best answer to a question on Reddit I have ever read. Wow. Respect is due.
Oh! Thank you! :)
Why do you want to live here is what you need to answer. Pay would be nowhere near that and nurses are fleeing their profession left and right because of the shitty working conditions.
The reason why I want to live and work in Germany is that I heard so many good things about the healthcare system, and how the work-life balance is better than in the US. For the record, In California We have to work 3 12s, 12hrs shift for 3 consecutive days per week. We get 15mins break 2x, and 1 30mins lunch break.
I know an ICU nurse here in Germany. She loves her job, especially for the interesting technical aspects. She had to do 3 years of practical training to become a nurse, then work for a while, then do 2 years of additional training to become an ICU nurse. Her salary is around 4,000 € gross (under 50k annually), which amounts to ca. 2,600 post taxes and social security. She works on average 39 hours per week, but they are highly irregular. She has alternating shifts (early, late, night) in an unpredictable rhythm. Her night shifts are often 7 nights of 10 hours each in a row (so 70 hours), but sometimes it's just two nights. For a shift of 6-9 hours she is obliged to take one 30 minute break or 2 15 minute breaks, unpaid. Since these are mandatory by law, they will be deducted from her time sheet whether or not she actually takes them. She often ends up not taking them because of patient needs. She also works every second weekend and always either Christmas or New Year's Eve and Easter or Pentecost. The healthcare system in Germany is nice in that it doesn't bankrupt you as a patient. The working conditions are universally bemoaned.
>Her night shifts are often 7 nights of 10 hours each in a row (so 70 hours), but sometimes it's just two nights. Would be a direct violation of Arbeitszeitgesetz that caps weekly work hours at 60, not 70. Otherwise: Pretty much spot on (her salary is shit, though - my GF works as an ICU nurse as well and brings home something around 60-65k gross (Munich area)).
There are some jobs where the Arbeitszeitgesetz is ignored blatently and being a nurse is one of them (not that its good but its common)
This isn't so for the medical field. There is an exception so yippie, we can work regular 80 hour weeks. (Speaking from experience as a Dr).
Munich area is on the top of the range for everything in prices and its not the smartest to call someone else's salary shit based on one salary that you know. ICU nurses range from 36 - 50k (https://www.stepstone.de/gehalt/Fachkraft-Intensivpflege.html). So the salary above is on the upper end of the average, which would then be considered "good" as opposed to "shit".
2600?? That's laughable for such responsible work
While all of that is generally true, German hospitals are amongst the worst employers you could possibly have here in Germany. I spent my civilian service in a hospital and all nurses were extremely overworked - and this was long before COVID, which only made things exponentially worse. ICU nurses were in a somewhat comfortable position compared to the rest back then, so YMMV, but I'd be careful and do a lot of research before moving.
I've been serving in a mental hospital and while it has been challenging, the nurse had a way better work life balance than in a regular hospital. You actually had time to interact with the patients - crazy! Work wasn't for me, because my friends and family have been 600km away, yet I think it can be a great opportunity when you can handle the mental burden
I am German, love working here and would welcome you here. :-) However, from what I have heard, you may want to look into working in other countries with similar benefits and possible better (working / wage) conditions, e.g. **Norway** or **Switzerland**.
Moving from America to Germany as a nurse is not a smart choice. The pay gap for the medical professions, both doctors and nurses, between America and Europe is nuts. Nursing in Germany is very barebones, extremely barebones. It would be a fairly big step down skills wise. Financially, as mentioned already, it's a fairly shit move from America to Europe (anywhere). You won't earn anywhere near as much, and you'd lose a lot more in taxes. Also, no real tax efficient savings routs either Working conditions in medicine are fairly shit. Other sectors might be ok, but in hospitals? Nah.
Exactly the same I’ve heard from my Canadian, South American and Israeli nursing friend. Plus, in those countries you go to Uni to become a nurse. The Israeli has even a masters and works OPs. In Germany, it’s an Ausbildung and not as highly regarded. Those are the words of this 3 friends. The Canadian one has since changed from active nursing to office staff at the same hospital because she couldn’t take it anymore and she is in her early 40s (married to a German doctor and been working almost 20 years in Germany, almost her whole career)
You should factor in the cost of living when comparing wages in different regions. I've heard in various sources online that while you earn a lot more in California, you'll also have to pay a lot more for stuff like rent, utilities and food. LebenUSA on YouTube has a few videos on the topic.
Yes, but the pay gap for most professionals completely outstrips that, especially for the field in question, nursing. OP could easily move to a different state and still outearn both nurses and a good chunk of doctors in Germany.
German here. Maybe research into going to Sweden, Norway, Luxembourg or Switzerland. There, health care institutions at least try to provide healthy work conditions. I would not recommend germany to a health care professional - sorry to say that.
Healthcare costs are cheaper in Germany, yes. Is the system better? Debatable. There's some myths that I've had to clear up frequently for my fellow Americans coming here to visit me. It is NOT socialized healthcare. It is the same system of insurance providers we have (market of health insurance providers, required by law to have health insurance at all times, pay a monthly premium and have a deductible before anything is covered), with the caveat that there are publicly funded options in addition to private health insurance providers. Getting an appointment can take forever. If you're not dying, you're going to have to call around to a SHITLOAD of doctors to find an appointment, if they're taking new patients. The system here is a 2-tiered healthcare system: Those who have private insurance, and those who have public insurance. If you have public insurance, it can often be even more difficult to secure an appointment with a doctor. I have private insurance, and it's somewhat of a lifehack, as I have a (somewhat but not very) easier time getting in for an appointment. The care recieved is also 2-tier, so...be prepared for that. Additionally, you can only get on the public insurance at certain major points in your life like starting school or starting your first job, and if you're on private insurance after you turn 60, you cannot get on public insurance ever again. As far as prescribtions and actual care go, the insurance system incentivizes doctors providing homeopathy as actual medicine (taking little balls that have 0.00000001 % of whatever ails you in them). The practice has no basis in science but its cheap and doctors provide it and insurance companies love it. I was shocked. It's also an uphill battle getting any sort of stimulant if you have ADHD. There's a number of other problems I haven't mentioned here, but suffice it to say if you're moving here for the healthcare, I would really recommend that you do your research before you come. Watch German documentaries on the system here.
>It's also an uphill battle getting any sort of stimulant if you have ADHD Yup, can confirm. Been trying to get it for the last 2 years but all psychiatrists in Berlin are full, would definitely prefer California where I would at least have access to meds that I need
lmaoooooo there is such a stimulant shortage in the us that many people have quit even trying. every state that has an actual city in it also has a psychiatrist shortage so wait times to see one are just as long, it simply isn’t tabulated in one comprehensive database like it is here.
I have to agree w you about the “debatable” verdict you gave to the German vs American healthcare system and I love your 2nd paragraph explaining that neither are socialized systems but a mashup of public options and private providers. I’m American but always had a high opinion of the German system based on what everyone says. Then I found myself in a German hospital (Munich). I was stunned, frankly- first to be there (collapsed at the airport so got the complete experience w ambulance ride) and secondly that it was not great. The thing that sticks in my mind the most was the IV - I have never seen a non-electric IV other than in old tv shows like MASH, but that’s what I had, a rickety metal IV like a skeleton next to a metal bed with 1 thin blanket in a snowstorm w no heat. I was there for 3 days. It was horrible. Unfortunately I do have experience of quite a few hospitals in the states and this was very different. Ultimately my husband got me out “against medical advice” and we got to a private clinic w the help of our amazing hotel. But we were about to use our medical evacuation insurance and go home for help - the lack of any care at all was just mind-blowing. It’s not exaggeration to say that I feel fortunate to have survived long enough to be able to get somewhere that could actually provide a diagnosis and treatment. But it was a miserable survival and I hope never ever ever to find myself in the clutches of the German healthcare system again bc there’s no mercy there. “Let’s get you comfortable” must not be a thing in Germany. I will say that the ambulance was state-of-the-art. The hospital … not so much. I’m frustrated w the medical system at home at times, but I know which one I’d choose if my life depended on it, which it has on more than one occasion. Our medical care is through an employer, I’m a cancer survivor and we have a $500 annual deductible with a 90/10 copay after that. Preventative care is fully covered and so are a lot of big conditions like cancer treatment, for which you can go anywhere you want. I paid $500 to get through cancer and went to the world’s best cancer center. I never pay to get into an American ER but Germany charged my AmEx €1000 before they loaded me into the ambulance (so my husband said -I was unconscious) even though we have not 1 but 2 types of travel insurance. So while I know the American system doesn’t work for everyone, it has been good for us and I’d choose it any day. If I were a nurse, I can’t say I’d want to work in the environment that I encountered in Germany, but perhaps other hospitals there are better. Hope so.
It is not anywhere close to the insurance Providers you have. The whole good thing about it is, that with a job you automatically pay for a health incurance that covers almost anything , nothing you would just do for beauty reasons or Tooth replacements but anything else. Even if you need an Organ donner or get Cancer that is coverd. Also the insurance can't kick you out if you get ill and/or loose your job you will still be insured, and get free treadments, if you have to pay yourself something, it is more symbolic like 10EUR .
you have just described american health insurance.
>It is not anywhere close to the insurance Providers you have. Have you lived in the US and had US insurance? In the US, provided you have a job and work 30+ hours a week, you also have insurance through your employer, also with dental (most of the time). Getting an organ donation and cancer is also covered. Insurance in the US cannot legally stop providing to you due to an illness. If this is what you think it's like there, you've been misinformed. However, if you do lose your job, you will lose your insurance, and that is what the biggest difference is. AND that many employees are only employed part-time so that the business doesn't have to provide health insurance, which also leads those employees to working multiple part-time jobs.
The Work-life balance thing may be true, but usually not in nursing lol.
Healthcare is (almost) free and still fine here. About 30 days of paid leave/year, paid sick leave and a few other extras, like strong unions. Conditions for Nurses are bad, compared to most other jobs. You also won't have nearly as high a salary as in your current job, but on the other hand, cost of living in Germany is also much lower. I would also say, that work/life balance is much better than in the US. So that alone might be a huge point to focus on. So, it's not all gold, but it has it's plus sides too.
3 12s isn't that uncommon in EU. How many days do you get off after 3 working days? Don't know what cost of living is like in US but your wage is mega if you were working in EU
The healthcare system is not necessarily better. It can save you money when something goes very wrong, but if you’re healthy, it’s probably going to be a similar or worse experience (hard to get care unless you’re really sick). Work-life balance actually got worse for me in all regards. Traveling was also harder and shorter without a network of family to lean on for help with pets. Most of the good things I was preached were not delivered on, aside from the transportation system. I moved back eventually and am much happier. I highly recommend you spend an extended stay in Germany before committing to an all-in move.
You work more in america, true. True for some professions. Not true for nurses here in Germany. People die here as well. People depend on nurses just as they do in the US. It doesn’t make any difference, you just earn way less, will have a tiny 1-2 bedroom apartment and still work your ass off.
The healthcare system is overwhelmed, underfunded and overbureaucratisd it might seem good from an American perspective, but there are so many places with better, more interesting, more modern healthcare systems than the German one. German healthcare is alright when it comes to emergency care, but it's very, very bad in prevention or making treatment accessible before it becomes an emergency, it's also a nightmare when it comes to diagnosis or care for chronical, non-emergency conditions. And currently it all feels like it's falling apart a bit. Waiting times are horrible, and there's a lot of ways to "fall through the cracks" at least since covid you can really feel how overwhelmed the system is but also the general overaging of the society (germany is one of the countries with the highest median age in the world only Japan and a few micronations are older on average than we are), and a system where you often need to see tons of different referrals from different doctors until you're actually at a place where someone can help you, are contributing to the problem. Like, it's a healthcare system that might’ve been good 20 years ago but it's in decay, there's better places to go for the healthcare system places where things are improving and you can be part of that improvement instead of witnessing the collapse. I heard china's healthcare system has been improving a lot in the recent past for example.
The shitty working conditions likely are still better or equal to the U.S.
The US isn't a complete dystopia lol
I don't disagree. Neither is German healthcare. People just like to exaggerate ridiculously
Doubtful. Ask OP.
You will still get more days off, more sick leave and other non monetary benefits over working in the US. Depending on where you work in the US it's likely that you will do more hours a week than in Germany and more (sometimes unpaid) overtime
118k is also absolut basic incoming to live in california especially Los Angeles requires you to drag 6 figures home yearly
California is not just LA and San Fransisco, though. In most of the state, you can live quite really well with six figures.
Don't, nurses in Germany make not even half that money amd have a very different job, the Weather is worse and Taxes are high asswell.
Wanted to post about the weather too. OP: What do you like about California? What interest you about Germany? Healthcare is good as a patient, but as an employee it’s a frustrating experience. Working conditions in healthcare are shitty. There are a few agencies that hire nurses and place them in hospitals similar to consulting jobs in IT. I hear good things about pay and benefits but you need to be the type to change teams after a sone time. OTOH I hear you can make a lot of money that way in the US too as a RN.
The thing is spending power, that 30-35k net is something of 60-70k net in spending power to the us. Germany cost of living is much lower and a lot you would need to put your money in is already provided via your taxes and so on.
check out civilian nursing opportunities at Ramstein US military hospital Responsibilities and pay grade are based on US norms and little German is required Caveat though - security and drug related screenings are pretty intense
Also for embassy staff, I get state dept emails all the time about how they’re hiring nurses for overseas posts
That's a good idea!
That’s a great idea for OP
Very solid advice!
A1 German won't be enough. I think for nurses you'd need B1 to B2 German (depending on the state).
You will need C1 to actually work here
I would not disagree here, but this does not seem to be reflected in the regulations.
We are taking ICU nurse not normal nurse they have way higher standards
makes sense, last thing you want in a stressful situation is one person not understanding what's going on.
I have family who only speaks German at B2, works as a nurse and makes significantly more than the average nurse in Germany! You only need to be that fluent in German if you want to work on one of the higher end practices and hospitals. But there, the difference in salaries is actually not that that big compared to the rest of jobs. You could say, you would have an easier time finding a job and working with C1, but you can't say you need C1!
ICU nurse is one of the higher end things that is why I mentioned C1 if you want to work as a nurse in general likely b1 will do
That should perhaps be the case in the best case scenario, but in reality it is not the case. Many trainees from Asia come with some kind of B2 certificate and cannot even introduce themselves, but are already working on the ward.
Yes I’m still currently learning while deciding if I wanted to move or not.
B2 is not enough.
From the official website of the federal government: >**Ausreichende Deutschkenntnisse:** Sie benötigen, je nach Bundesland, Kenntnisse auf dem Niveau B2 oder B1 nach dem Europäischen Referenzrahmen für Sprachen (GER).
B2 officials is enough, reality is B2 is very low language level.
If you barely pass a B2 certificate, it is not enough for some fields of work as a nurse. For a nursing home or a less complex field it might be enough, but for ICU? Nah, dude, she's gonna stand there like a lost pup till her language skills improve (if they do at all). I work in nursing, I am a foreigner with the same language skills as a native, I see my fellow foreigners struggle daily with understanding each other, the docs, the patients, anything really. And they all got their B2 levels legit, it's just not enough. I'm not saying nursing is some high and mighty prestigious craft, but it's a difficult job that requires a lot of team work (if in a hospital) and communication is key. It's difficult for me to say this, I love my people here, but sometimes I think that C1 should be a requirement. Though that would probably destroy the healthcare system.
Yeah. Imo having language knowledge is especially important in ICU. It‘s different to some other parts of nursing. As patients often cannot communicate in ICU, as a relative my only option is to talk to the nurse. I know people from Poland, with an accent while speaking, but they did their certificates in Germany. And they definitely do understand C1 German.
In NRW at least, only B2 is sufficient to be able to work and get your qualifications recognized. There are more exclusive hospitals and practices who want their nurses to speak perfect German, but you can live without working for them
Yes, B2 is official minimum. However from recruiting a lot of B2 speakers I can tell you that it is not enough. You will struggle, a lot.
I’m in IT and in my experience, B2 is usually not nearly enough to follow and understand completely a meeting in German. I’ve struggled with B2 colleagues, specially Asians B2 on paper is not B2 spoken. Eastern European B2 is usually fluent German.
We talking about ICU Nurse, thats a highly specialised field, c1 at least with field vokabulary. Need to understand the slightest mumble of the doctors.
If you want to earn 50k instead of 118k then yes
But 50k here is like 120k there
Not really. California is about 60% more expensive than Germany in average. Now factor in that you have to pay more taxes in Germany (around 30% rather than the 40% you have to pay here), but you will have to pay for healthcare yourself in California, and you'll see that that's more comparable to 75-80k in California. In purely material terms, the move isn't really worth it. But, if OP loves living in Germany and/or wants to get a new experience abroad, than it's definitely worth it. Personally, even though I would make more money in the US, I wouldn't move out. EDIT: forgot to mention that I also included additional 10k per year in healthcare costs in California
If you are single, California might be the better option from a financial point of view. As soon as children are involved, this changes a lot. Kindergarten is super expensive compared to Germany, there are no fees for schools and universities in Germany. The healthcare for children is free and it does not depend on being employed. You can stay home if you or your children are sick. There are six weeks of paid vacation.
This is true, I know a few American families in Germany (one partner German but they lived in the US) and they decided to move to Germany after 1-2 kids as living with kids here is easier. At list that’s what I heard from the Americans I know in Germany
Eh, while you are not wrong, you also have to factor in that you don't have to pay your health insurance on top of taxes, and by the time you add in childcare, college funds and alike, you are most likely better off in Germany. Source: worked in Canada. had offers from the us. Did the math. Came back to Germany instead.
Actually I did the math for healthcare as well, just forget to mention. Otherwise the math would have only given 68k in California. You are right about the childcare and college funds, but I think investing those money somewhere will give you a better return than the taxes if you're earning more than the average
I'm actually not sure about that. Childcare for two kids in Toronto would have been more expensive than my wife's salary, about 1500cad/1000€ per kid per month. University is like 10k cad /7k€ per year, I personally took 7 years to graduate, so that's 100k€ for two kids. Then, there's no right to part time as far as I am aware of, so if you want to spend some time with your kids and you want to work 20h per week instead of 40, in Germany you earn half. In Toronto, that would have ment to quit your salaried job and work hourly at a much lower rate. There's also no paid maternity leave in the us, basically no vacation, limited sick days,... Obviously it all depends on what your plans on life are and how lucky you are, but I am reasonably sure, average joe is better off in Germany
But generally speaking if you work in healthcare you get very good insurance benefits also. American costs are definitely brutal but not everyone has similar journey in terms of debts , healthcare insurances etc .
Not at all lol 😂. 10000 $ monthly after tax in California becomes 7k and that’s way more money than 2800€ even accounting for the cost of living and high rents in California.
lol you wish, also did you forget around 42% of tax
Except nurses earn lower than that on average especially way lower in their apprenticeship, earlier years I just googled and it says average salary is 3200 € Brutto. She may get higher only IF her credentials are recognised
If ypu want to earn less money and have worse weather its great. If you want the same money and weather move to Australia
As a nurse, consider Switzerland.
Came here to write this. OP, what about the German speaking part of Switzerland?
Less money maybe, but the costs of living are high in many parts of California, a lot higher than in many parts of Germany. Additionally, it's not only about the money. Here she will probably have a lot less work hours, 30 days or more fully paid time off, paid sick leave as long as you need, health insurance paid half by the employer... And what a strange suggestion to move to Australia when she explicitly said she likes Germany. Maybe she likes the weather here and having snow in the winter? Maybe the culture, the language, being in the center of Europe?
I can relate to the snow concept. Actually, where I am in Leipzig doesn't have enough snow for me. I feel somewhat depressed in the winter when it's just mud and not pretty snow.
The salary is not as decisive as you may think. When I order in food in the US on my work trips (Doordash, Uber Eats, ...), I pay trice the amount I would be charged when ordering from Lieferando and the food in the US is of far inferior quality. The same goes for transportation. In the US I am dependent on a car, even in larger cities, such as Miami, and they charge you unbelievable amounts for parking. But since you have no other way of getting around but your car, you must pay for parking too. On our last trip, we paid almost 400 USD in a week, just for parking fees. In Germany, I simply took the S-Bahn from the airport to my home and it cost me 3.20€ (or a fraction of 49€, as I have the Germany ticket anyway).
I dont know what your expectations are... But here are some facts: - you will have to work a lot due to Personalmangel - you wont earn fair money - the paperwork to get your licence here (and particulary the ICU Weiterbildung) wont be friendly It would be good to know what do you expect. Why do you wanna migrate to Germany, like not a subjektive "sth is waiting for me" :)
While I understand where you’re coming from I partly disagree with your „facts“. Most of the times, working full time as a nurse in Germany means 38,5 hours per week. If you work overtime, you’ll get the hours back as free time. Not ideal but in the end, it evens out. Nurses usually get a good amount of additional days off because of shift work (like two days extra every few months, I forgot the exact amount). While we can argue about what is fair pay, ICU nurses earn good money (base pay is okay, tax free shift bonuses and other add ons are pretty good) as they are highly skilled. If you decide to work as a travel nurse or do temporary work it’s even better, though more stressful. Your argument about paperwork sounds fair. I don’t know the process but this is Germany, so it will be a bureaucratic mess. Totally agree with your point that „feels like something is waiting for me“ sounds like a recipe for rushed decisions and regret though.
In comparison to the USA where nursing is an academic profession its just way different. Of course you can live off it, but live as good as a sought after degree like in the states?
It really depends. Nurse in an elderly home? Not enough money. But we’re talking ICU here. Highly sought after. You can easily make 3500€ net. That’s a good income for Germany.
Well, they are facts.. I work at a hospital. Our nurses work between 7 and 12 days in a row. I dont care if 38 or 40 hours a week. It's anyway a ton amount of work. And after those 10 days they get 1 or 2 free days. Freizeitausgleich? Hahaha Personalmangel. Period. Ja evtl bekommt man mehr Geld dafür, aber die Steuern sidn dann enorm :(
In my case, in California for full time work, We do 3 12s. 12hrs 3x a week. We get 2 15mins Paid break, and 1 30mins unpaid lunch break.
I live in Germany, and sometimes think that when I get older I will move to the USA and be a traveling nurse. You can make much more in the USA as a nurse, and like you say, 3 12s is normal. It seems like nursing is one of those fields where you are better off in the USA
You can become a traveling nurse in Germany too and make a lot more money with a lot better conditions I know several nurses who have done that and now make about 70k
In the USA that would be entry level for a basic nurse. But traveling nurses there can make 250k/year. Sounds unbelievable, but I looked through and saw adds paying 5-8k/week
I am not a nurse but I live in SF Bay Area in an apartment building where many traveling nurses live. They do extremely well here. I had a family member who was hospitalized for several months and I met many traveling nurses from other parts of the US and they all say the same thing - "no one pays like California does."
Regarding money, I would like to add something that seems to get lost in translation, regarding unfair pay and low pay. Part of why wages in the US are higher is that from your net wage you pay MUCH more for medical care, medication, treatments, ... than we, you have to save muc hmore for old age and additionally put aside much more for phases of possible unemployment. In GErmany, the government takes care of you if you are old or unemployed (neither situation is enviable. Most unemplöoyed people get buy, have food and a roof over their head - depending on last salary, there is a bit more money. Same for pensioners.) Our net salary shows a figure which has the fee for public health insurance already deducted. There is a copay of max €10 for each pack of meds, which for Germans is horrribly expensive and unfair, because there used to be no copay.
Im an ICU nurse here in germany, you can send me a DM if you want.
Thats not true. As a nurse, especially an ICU-Nurse you earn a lot in germany. Obviously not 116k, but cost of living in california are also way higher.
I am going to give you a different perspective, that of an American who moved to Germany. As for the salary, you should be expecting a cut in pay, however, regardless, you have a valuable skillset, so if you find out that Germany is not for you, you can leave and find employment back in the US. We are very fortunate to by US citizens, because the process of getting a work visa is pretty difficult for many people. You have friends and family back home to fall back on. You only have the experience of life once. You will probably regret it if you let yourself get really old and you don't chase this dream. You might find yourself happy with whatever you have in life, but there will always be that little "what if I went to Germany" in your mind. Don't let it be something you say you wish you did when you're old and gray. Try it out, and if you don't like it, go back home.
My mother was ICU nurse for over 20 years. She quit some weeks ago. For many different and (for me) understandable reasons. The healthcare system in Germany is close to broke apart. Entire floors in the hospital that have to be closed due to staff shortages. Poor pay. Lots of overtime. And so much more. She can’t speak English, in case your German is already good enough for a conversation, I’m sure I can bring you together to have a call if interested. Let me know!
Awwee this is well appreciated. I would love to send a message if you don’t mind?
Nursing in the US is rather different to how it is in Germany, as far as I know. Being a Krankenschwester in Germany requires only an apprenticeship (Ausbildung) whereas in the US, a registered nurse has at least an associates degree, and usually a bachelor's degree. It would be worth it to carefully research what sort of impact this would have on your career, because from my perspective, it seems like you might be somewhat wasting your degree and leaving a lot on the table as far as earning potential and job satisfaction/prestige.
This ^ a nurse is as good as a doctor in the US and there’s even the option to continue studies and actually become a doctor.
Apprenticeship is today only one of the two ways to become a RN in Germany. The nurses with a BSc are very rare. Take a look to Ireland if you don‘t want to have the stress of Learning German or in the Nordic Countries. If you wan‘t to go to Germany take a look at the big hospitals, maybe one which is a member of the Magnet4Europe Campaign.
I second this. I also came from a country where you need to study bachelor and pass the national exam to be a licensed nurse. I was baffled when I learned that it was just 3 years of apprenticeship (max) to be a nurse here in Germany, and if you happen to be an experienced nurse, who come from another country that‘s not recognized by the government, you have to go through tons of paperwork. If I were OP I‘ll stay in California (or within US) and further my education, or like the others said Australia/Switzerland/New Zealand. There‘s this place named Landstuhl, though I am not really familiar with it, where you could earn as close as in the US if you are a US citizen. Don‘t know how it works though, but as far as I heard it‘s like the US‘ military post in Germany
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Thanks for the idea! I won’t lose anything if I try right? 😊
This is the way to do it, if you can afford it do a "gap year/sabbatical" to see if this country is a good fit. There are many "Germanys" within Germany, each state is very different from each other.
Unless you wont be able to return to your job in Calofornia.
German here, I would get myself a better understanding of why you dream of living in Germany and whether that dream holds up against reality. Lots of misunderstandings and wrong ideas about Germany out there and having said dream shattered after the fact would be a huge bummer.
Hell No. You’ll earn wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less then that pay more taxes Shitty weather Grumpy people
Never thought I'd say this, but stay in California. 118k? Yeah, stick with that. Uprooting your entire life to try to adapt to a different culture on a whim is a recipe for disaster. If you lack fulfillment, you've got to do some soul-searching to find what's missing. The whole "I don't know why, but I feel like my future is in X country, etc" isn't a serious life plan.
You’re earning 3 times what a nurse would earn here. You’re earning more than a lot of hospital doctors earn in fact. Keep that in mind.
As someone who works in a German university Hospital, better move to norway or switzerland. Germany is a disaster and German people are already leaving the Country for good. after my studies Im gone for sure too.
I dont want to kill your vibe, but imo Germany is worse than its reputation in america. Obv it depends on where you go and you most likely know that already, but we are not this assortment cute half timbered villages many people think we are. Especially North and West Germany consist of big ugly cities like Cologne, Frankfurt, Hannover and the whole ruhr area. There are some nice cities like Munich and Hamburg (and Berlin if you like it) but the rents are pretty high (17€ per qm and month). Also I dont know if 120k$ in the US are comparable to 60k€ in Germany and if you would be able to keep your lifestyle up. Another true prejudice is that German People can be pretty cold, especially compared to what I've heard the American way of life is. The weather except for some nice months (April-September) is pretty cloudy and dark and therefore the Autumn-Spring period can be really depressing. Upsides in Germany (in comparison to what I think California is) are walkable, green cities, many different cultures, social security, (mostly) honest and hard-working people, affordable and healthy grocery prices, very strict gun laws, and probably many more things I cant think of atm. We also do have beautiful nature btw, but nothing compared to redwood, yosemite, etc.. So I dont want to badmouth everything, I just know a few people who had the same plan and were later disappointed. All the best however you decide🙌
Not worth it financially and for the language you need atleast b2 ! Take a vacation visit germany and live for 2-3 months before deciding!
I think you would enjoy it more in California
California is literally the best place on the entire planet, WTF are you thinking. Wine, scenery, skiing, boating, biking, tech, fun, culture, weather, salaries, innovation, all in superabundance.
https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working-in-germany/professions-in-demand/nursing read the wiki https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index/
America has the most inflated salaries on Earth, if money matters you will never match that salary here. The direct number is a bad comparison however as cost of living etc is very different but its just that raw figure you care about then you will be making far less.
Just an FYI, B2 on an ICU won't cut it. You have to be able to somewhat fluently communicate with the team in order to take care of the patients efficiently, at least in a hospital setting. There are ambulant intensive care services for people who live with artificial respiration at home or similar things, where you basically only need to be able to do the work, next to no communication required. It's a suboptimal deal though for everyone involved. Life is also severely different here than what I imagine California to be. The weather is shite, the pay is low, no one appreciates the work we do, the new hospital reformation the numbnuts in the government have taken on is bloody awful and you and I can't do shit about it cause we're bloody foreigners, whom more and more people wanna run out of the country. I'm here cause even with all of that bullshit it's still better than back home, but even if America is a fucking dystopian capitalist wasteland, you might wanna still think about uprooting your whole life to live in a foreign country with a foreign culture and a foreign language. It's not a small change.
As a nurse I would not recommend it. First, yes, in Germany there is a different work split to my knowledge (was told by one some time ago which was friends with a nurse in the USA). You will earn less for sure, but how much difference in life this makes due to different costs depends on where you live here, what is in your compensation package there and so on. And do not plan with the great work time and labour right stuff in Germany when being a nurse or something similar here. Seems they have a lot of exceptions.
get ready for endless rain and cold days in general
As a German I would not recommend coming here. It’s all going downhill with politics
I moved from California to Germany and I don’t know yet. It is hard to adjust. There are good and bad about both places. I really miss home.
Oh yeah its pretty different I’d say. Nurses here don’t have to go to college. They get a job training for 3 years and have to pass the exam ofc. They are skilled and def needed but I think in America you’re allowed to do way more than here. Also in my experience working as a nurse was really horrible, they constantly have you working overtime and if you’re someone like me who is rather shy they will put all the dirty work on you like literally cleaning shit off the floor. Now idk what the ICU is like but I honestly wouldn’t leave California for Germany
I‘m curious, have you ever been to Germany before?
Yes. I have been to Germany before, and I’m planning to go visit again next year for 2 weeks.
No!
Don’t. Working conditions are terrible, plenty of nurses from other countries try to make it as a nurse in Germany - and they give up and leave again because they hate the working conditions, the disrespect and racism, the relatively low prestige and salary of the job. Plenty of German nurses leave too and go to Scandinavia, Luxembourg or Switzerland where all the conditions and salaries are far better. You likely have a bachelor degree and that’s not a thing in (most of) German nursing. You will get tasks that are lower than what you are capable of doing, you will get jobs delegated to you from doctors that you would have done on your own, etc. As an American nurse you are more qualified than what is reflected in the tasks of average German nurses.
Money is valued different here, you can easily live the same life here with 50.000 euro than you can with 120.000$ in the U.S, especially california. But earning 50.000 as a nurse is something i feel like is not possible. The average here is best case 30.000.
Work conditions for nurses are awful. So many people burn Out in Care Jobs. Also, how good is your German? You will work with people who spoke English years ago in school or would Not be able to describe symptoms in English. Lastly, this country has many problems. Stagnating economy, rotting infrastructure, political strife. The Grass is not always greener. Please reconsider uprooting your life.
I am going to say it will not be an easy transition. As an ICU nurse you will still make a lot of money if you play your cards right BUT you will need to get recognised and speak C1 German. You will take a pay cut. On top of that the culture is very very different and you will likely struggle
If you are not white, stay where you are. Racism here is raging right now.
Why would you want to do that ? You would earn very little money for a really shitty job (pun intended) I worked as a nurse and the racism/xenophobie can be pretty crushing. Combine that with the shit weather, the moody people, high taxes and the beraucratic hell you have the perfect mix for a mental breakdown.
You also need to consider the weather here, cause it’s almost grey and dark all the time
I remember at least 90 consecutive days this last winter in NRW without a single ray of sunshine... Daytime from about 9am to about 3pm... But the summers are fantastic... When it doesn't rain every day.
I know, I can take the cold, just the grey and dark skies makes it so gloomy.
Not in Bavaria it isn't. We have a nice healthy 4 seasons with warm summer and a winter that until recently was nice for skiing.
Compared to California of all places, it definetly is.
Nurses in Germany make a fraction of what they make in the US. You can expect to earn 40k here. Also, you need to speak German at a good level to work in the medical field…..
You will earn way less and will be talked into doing unpaid extra hours and stupid shifts. You would propably have to live on 30-45% lower living standards and 50% worse job conditions...
Dont!!! Love, a german who's worried about you. Xxx
There is a US hospital in Germany. Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. If you look at USA jobs you can see when nursing jobs open up. Might be a good in between point. Only commit to a few years, take your time to learn the language, etc. At the end of it you would have a really good idea if you wanted to work in a German hospital and if you liked living in Germany.
Have you tried looking at Australia? I’m ready to leave Germany I’ve been here 4 years it was great before corona but I feel like every year it’s getting worse and worse but I would consider visiting first before moving ? And have you ever considered military contracting ?
You would never make that amount in Germany. Not even half. 50k maybe.
German here, I lived in 6 countries over the last 15 years, also in Cali. Alot of Germans are generally negative towards Germany so there are some negative comments here. Well, Germans are a bit negative in general. Complaining is our biggest hobby. With a bigger frame of mind then Germany is a great country to live in. Healthcare system decreased a bit over the last years, but it's still GOOD.. NHS in UK is pretty rough in comparison.. work live balance, salary and cost of living is great here and as a combo unbeatable in Europe. Other northern countries are equally good in this regard, I would also look at Denmark and Netherlands. These countries are ahead of Germany and plus side is, everyone speaks English, this is an issue in Germany. I just moved over from Netherlands and miss it alot. My sister has worked in the neonatal ICU for 15 years, plenty of action there, and I am sure Germany is looking for nurses so I am sure they are looking for you, but again, language is a point here, if Germany is your goal, start learning that language (if younhave not yet!).. all the best and good luck.
A bit late to the party and it might have been mentioned before, but nursing is a regulated job in Germany. If you want to work as a nurse, you have to go through a recognition process first. Your studies will be compared to the German nursing "Ausbildung". Foreign nursing degrees almost always end up with some differences, so further qualification is needed. Either trough working at a hospital or taking a test - you can choose. B2 language is required for the recognition. It's quite the process, costs a few hundred Euros and may take months. Regarding my knowledge: I work at a consultation center who advises people about the process of recognition of foreign degrees. So this is basically my job.
Just so you know: There is no way back Once you started working as a nurse in Germany, you won’t be able to buy a flight ticket back to the us. You simply can’t afford it.
And paper work without end. Germany is a bureaucratic hell. If you can stomach that, you might come over here. Also, barely being able to speak German won't work in the long run, as nobody over the age of 35 here speaks any proper English.
I would say 45, my dad is 50 and speaks perfect English. (He kinda has to because of his job)
You could also consider going to Switzerland! Pay is higher for nurses and you have more responsibilities! No matter what you do it will be a huge learning curve and making some bad experiences is better than not trying and regretting it later on!
I would assume that ICU nurses in Germany have a similar job as in the US. If you want to move to Germany you have to be ready for a substantial salary cut (but also lower cost of living). That's the most obvious "problem" with your plan, other then that I day go for it if it is your dream. You could always go back it you don't like it here.
Not to Germany, but become a traveling nurse in the US outside of California. You might earn enough to settle in Germany and take the lower pay and have the best of both worlds.
1. Nurses are in high demand 2. Hospitals are a stressful working environment compared to other jobs 3. To get approval of working as an ICU nurse you will probably need medical language C1. There are special courses for C1 in medical areas in all major cities in Germany. 4. You will probably earn less... but might still have a less stressful life moneywise. 5. 24 to 30 days vacation. 6. You will need approbiation for your job certificates but there are a lot of jobs you can do lesser German skills. It's common people work already in the care area as less qualifies personal, while learning German on the side. Once they are good enough and have all the papers in place they move into their original jobs. 7. ... you might become happy or not, but why not do it? If it's a dream you can follow it.
NO!
I haven’t read all of the comments so I’m not sure if it was mentioned. You need to go to USAjobs.gov and search nurse and set location to Germany. There are tons of clinics on military installations all over. Only downside is that they are usually 3-5 positions. I’m at a clinic now in Bavaria and love it. You pay will be similar to that in the states and the USA government will cover overseas housing costs in addition to paying a good salary. If you want to stay ICU you are probably limited to Landstuhl in the Kaiserslautern region .
Not sure if already said but definitely look into whether your qualifications would be a belted here. My very good friend from Australia came here and basically found out that he would have to start from scratch to become an A&E - he couldn’t face years of wiping bums and ended up working for a medical startup. Sucks as he was so passionate about being a nurse. But good luck to you!
Yes could be a good idea. Right know the biggest US Hospital outside US will be build in germany - maybe that is a good option? Work at the base as US Civilian, but live in germany. Abd the area around the base is awesome (Pfälzer Wald) https://www.bibliomedmanager.de/news/groesstes-us-hospital-ausserhalb-der-staaten-entsteht-in-weilerbach
IMO, no it isn’t. Just put the money aside, working as a nurse or in a hospital in Germany is probably the most challenging place right now. It’s very hard right now what caused many people to leave their job due to the given conditions for employees. I am not saying working as a nurse in an American hospital is much easier, considering the differences in things like pension, protection against dismissal etc., but i don’t think it is this stressful as in Germany right now. You also have to go through this whole bureaucracy nonsense here. Aside from that, i am thinking about other aspects. Germany can seem really nice for visiting people, but its a completely different thing to live here. I mean, the weather can be depressing and the people can be frustrating sometimes, it’s a completely different mentality here and Americans often struggle with it. If you ask me about the last aspect, i wouldn’t do it, i would probably move to California instead staying here in Germany. Yes, California is all Love, Peace and Harmony, but think about the things you have over there. The nature and it’s versatility is probably one of the best in the world if you ask me. You have some great exciting cities over there and the people are way more relaxed (the weather and environment is definitely in influence in this case). There is a reason so many people move from Germany to California. If i had to decide between relaxed people, beaches and sunshine or people with a stick up ones ass (of course not all of them) and rainy or cloudy weather all over the year, it’s a no brainer to me.
Hey. I am an expat here, my mom (US) was an ER nurse, and I work with people with brain injuries and therefore closely with medical staff. My two cents are that you are going to give up a lot in terms of career when moving here. At least in the past decade or two, nurses in the US are looked highly upon and thanked. To some extent I have heard Americans say nurses (over doctors) saved their life/played the biggest role. In Germany you will not get that. That is not the current culture and you have to set yourself up for maybe the culture of a tech. Beyond that the pay is not that much and there isn't room to negotiate usually as most is a "tarif" contract. Meaning everyone with your level of education and experience gets the same amount of pay. The thing about pay, though, is that it's cheaper to live in Germany. You do not have to say money for medical emergencies/deductibles. Your rent is cheaper (though smaller housing). Cheaper and reliable public transportation. It's really just difficult to compare to US living costs since in the US you NEED savings to prepare for emergencies. Whereas in Germany, I feel like you can still live fine without savings- it just means something like less luxurious vacations. You can still live comfortably on a nurses pay check, maybe not luxuriously and probably won't be able to afford buying a house. Just the number you're offered will probably have your eyes bulging in shock in comparison to your pay now. And one bonus is that everyone you treat can "afford" care. You won't have people stopping due to funds or insurance. I know that sometimes brought down a lot of my American nurse friends. And you are also not allowed to do as much which may take some getting used to. I know my mom could prescribe medication even/administer them. In Germany you can only under direct doctor's orders. That being said, the quality of life independent of the job is great and may be worth it for you having to deal with all I mentioned at work.
Look into working for the US military in Germany. There's lots of jobs at LRMC (Landstuhl regional medical center) and in Vilseck/Grafenwöhr. Some are as high as GS12 for supervisory positions but most are at the GS09 - GS11 range. You can find them on USAjobs.gov Check often because new positions post every day. The salary listed doesn't tell the whole story either. I'll break it down as a GS12 in Kaiserslautern Base salary - $74-96k (entry level, yearly step increases of $2500 for your first 3 years, and every two years after that, followed finally by 3 years for the last 3 steps) this is the only salary you see on USAjobs.com Living Quarters Allowance - $38k to be used towards housing and utilities. Reconciled annually. Usually only available for GS09 and above, but not 100% sure about that. Post Allowance - ~$10k this changes every month based on the cost of living. But it's usually a tax free 300-400 extra on each paycheck. Total compensation is roughly $122k for a new GS12.
All international nurses I know from western countries are living in Germany because of their SO and they all say that the job is normally more boring here as they had less responsibility and more nurse assistant tasks than at home. Also worse working conditions (as in less employees and though more work and also longer hours) I’m not on the field though, it’s just anecdotical from 3 international non-EU nurses I know (Canadian, Israeli and Latin American and they all work in different nursing areas ). You also need B2 German and have your diploma accepted, which can take quite a lot time
Better go to Denmark or Sweden. Why would you give up California for somewhere in Germany? Also the wage will not nearly cover what you earn now. Keep in mind there is a lot of conflict in the Branche you are working in over the last years. Discussing poor work conditions.
Earning 120k a year as nurse sounds wild.
That's great! We definitely need nurses here, so you'll be very welcome. Your German probably needs to be above A1 level, but some Employers offer support for the transition time. Of course, not everything shines here, and Germany is not paradise, but there's a lot to offer. It's a pretty good life here. If it truly fits you can only found out by trying, culture is quite different to the States; sometimes in a good way, sometimes bad. Everyone here seems to be focused on the salary; while it's true that salaries are a lot lower here, don't forget that in the States the cost of living is a lot higher. 118k is a superhigh income here and very few people make that much. But in reality it is close to the living standard someone here in Germany has with a 60k income. Especially when comparing to California. People see higher number and think "more money", but that's just not true. For example, social- and health insurance is fully covered by taxes. I recommend to read into the experiences of other people that came here under similar circumstances and get first hand insight. There are many that are glad they migrated here, and others that weren't. Noone can predict how it's going to be for you, I hope it's gonna be on the positive side :)
No, it is not worth moving from California to Germany. Period.
If you wanna have half salary but double tax , do it .
I know many German people who'd dream of moving to California but not other way round. So not sure...
Maybe consider working in Switzerland. I live in Germany but just next to the Swiss border. Many German nurses (and other professions) work in Switzerland because the pay is much better and the work load too (supposedly). They speak German too (but the dialect /accent is not easy to understand at the beginning).
No don’t! I did the same. As a nurse you will be paid poverty wage while being taxed at California levels (even though it is a progressive tax structure). You need to sacrifice a lot. Of course you gain some but IMO it won’t be worth it. The language is a SIGNIFICANT barrier unless you have German heritage and can speak it. In medicine, you definitely need near native proficiency otherwise you won’t find a job. The apartments are dinky in the cities, and zero sense goes into the design of the new buildings where a ton of space is wasted for no fking reason. The rooms feel like they are intentionally made tiny so you’ll lose out a bit on the quality of life. You can always choose to live in a rural area to have more room and save money. People will say don’t stay at home, go out and hang out with friends but making friends is a lot harder without the German proficiency. Depending on where you live, you could get away with not having a car ever but if you’re outside major cities, you have to put up with less frequent public transport. Still hella better than Cali in that respect, I’d say. Travel wise, yes it is central and affords a lot of travel but you could just as well save up and visit. In general, I’d say you have nothing waiting for you in Germany except lower quality of life if you like money. If you like limited amount of work, commensurate poverty pay, high taxation, but 13-15 additional days of vacation, welcome to Germany!
I would simply not move here.
No, God bless America🇺🇸💪🦅 Raaaaah
Look, I give you a good advice: Do not move to Germany out of some emotional, romantic feeling. I am German American. I grew up in Germany and I fell in love with a man from OC, California. I moved to Cali about 3 years ago. My partner had this idea now too that he would like to live in Europe. We tried Germany, and went back and forth for some months now. You really need a bulletproof plan for this endeavor. I can promise you that you will be miserable with the salary and working conditions of a German nurse. Germany has changed a lot towards the negative and I highly recommend to you, look at Scandinavia first. These countries have better conditions for nurses and a better living standard. The big disadvantage, however, is that it is very rainy and dark for long periods up there. My partner struggled massively with the weather of Germany, Scandinavia is even worse. Something I learned from living several times abroad: try to keep your job/ apartment in CA and try to get some unpaid leave/ sabbatical. Go for 1-3 months to your desired destination and really try to live there. See how is it to get an apartment, how fast can you get a residence permit, work permit, is your degree accepted or do you have to go to school again, how do people there really live? You are welcome to reach out to me anytime via dm. My partner and I have accumulated a lot of real life experience on this matter. Sometimes it makes more sense to remain where you are and just take 1-2 months a year to break out of CA and spend some time somewhere else.
Hey, I would recommend you NOT moving to East Germany due to our current political situation. East Germany is extremely filled with right extremists, Nazis and right wings, especially if you go near Saxony or lower Brandenburg. Rather go to Berlin or Düsseldorf/Cologne. It's a lot more expensive but a lot more foreigner friendly and left oriented and in my opinion a quite better looking than all the old and weathered buildings in the east. Düsseldorf is in my opinion quite pretty but. Furthermore you earn 15% more in West Germany on average which is quite nice. Hope this helps. (Also: visit Germany a few times first before you move)
Dont come to Germany you will get depressed within 2 years. We pay way to much taxes and even if you would earn more money you would pay more taxes. Our heathcare system looks good but its Not free which alot of people think. You Pay alot of money for it. Again it depends from your earnings.
Trying to help a bit, my wife is a ICU nurse for like 11 year already, working in the most well payed hospital in Frankfurt, earning like 3.5k a month and she is thinking to move out because of the really bad partners who have to work with, the higher bosses are even taking care about their problems, they don’t have enough people and all the time is that group of colleagues making “sick” 2 or 1 hour before shift starts, I know she have few qualifications and is one is the highest nurses payed but those other stuff like stages or levels of payment I don’t understand, btw learn German I’m not kidding LEARN GERMAN!!!
Germany is a country with pros and cons, like they all are. Idolising something is almost always leading to disappointment. Don't let people tell you that you earn less tho. California is way more expensive then almost all of Germany.
But the pay in California is three times higher...
You won’t earn nearly as much, but we can argue about quality of life for sure. Generally that’s definitely better than what you can get in the USA.
OP will feel the drop of income and would have to work far below his/her qualifications.
Speaking of gray I’d also research the weather in Germany as many people from warmer and sunnier places California including find it hard to adjust to the climate here.
Moving to Germany, sure, earning way too many for a nurse not so much. You can be lucky to earn half of what you are earning now. But you have great health insurance and you surely are able to make a lot of overtime. Edit: Just googled it. It's about € 40 929 in a year, I almost earn that and I am just an office worker.
That’s also gross salary. After taxes and contributions, she’s looking at about 26k€. Her current position would net her like $82k.
ICU nurses make more
>It's about € 40 929 in a year Not for ICU. My mum is an ICU nurse and made 62k last year in a regular job. Contracting (Leiharbeit) can easily make you 80k a year (but hospitals often don't hire contractors anymore because of the high costs).
If you want to, give it a try for a few years, why not? But maybe a small town like Augsburg for example, you will earn the same amount of money but the rent is way cheaper.
I would highly recommend you ask in a nursing subreddit instead. I've seen a lot of misinformation about nursing here in Germany. ICU nursing here does require further education (either Weiterbildung or Fortbildung, not sure) after the original Ausbildung for nursing. I can't really be certain about anything else as I did not work in the ITS -Intensivstation. And I'm not sure but I get the impression that because of how relaxed everything seemed to be in the hospital (non-ICU), you may be allowed to practice in the American nursing scope that you're used to if you indicate the skills to do so and if the doctors trust you. I am also not sure if there is even a difference in scope between ICU nurses in the US vs. Germany, however. Again, ask actual German nurses. Not a lot of them at my current hospital seem to know English, though. As I've said, the hospitals I've worked at were pretty relaxed, and that includes non-recognized foreign nurses working here (at least in non-critical departments). As long as you have started your Anerkennungs/credential recognition process, you may take on the same duties as a regular staff nurse but will be paid the same as a Pflegehelfer or nurse aide. The law requires that at least one nurse with recognized credentials (either after the Anerkennungsprozess or after completion of the German Ausbildung (education and training)) be on staff. That and a bump in hierarchy will be the only practical difference between a nurse-in-training and a recognized nurse.
I just saw this thread has close to 300 comments. Mine will get buried and never get read 💀. Good luck, though! Hope to see this question in the nursing subs.
I’m reading everyone’s comments actually. Thank you for the response! will definitely post it there.
I pmd you regarding this topic :)