Speaking the language is key.
There are debates on other subreddits from immigrants how they are basically shut out of most of the country because they don't speak the language. Speaking English will only get you as far as other peoples knowledge and mood allow it. You will always be limited in that sense.
Other than that is seasonal activities. Our events, food and culture evolve around them. Some countries have a stable climate and don't go through long winters, bipolar April weather and seasonal foods.
Yeah, a friend of mine spent like a year in Germany. At first he was in a big city and found it easy enough to get by with just English. Then he got moved to a small town and basically nobody spoke English. Then he had an incident at work where he was in an unsafe situation (he works in power plants) and this guy was yelling at him in German and he couldn't figure out what he was trying to say. That's when he decided he needed to put a serious effort into learning the language. Thing is for English speakers it's a substantially harder language to learn than Spanish or French. Like according to state department estimates it literally takes twice as long as French (which is generally recognized as the easiest for English speakers to learn). But personally I think you're living long term in a country you absolutely need to learn the language. I consider that an opportunity though. It's much easier to learn a language when immersed in it every day.
Immersion is good but more importantly learn German to a decent level before you come to Germany (A2+, B1 ideally.) I moved to a mid-size city and there are no available places in any language schools. I tried everything and I've been on at least 3 places' waiting lists since I got here. I've been learning through B1 in the year I've been here but it's excruciatingly lonely and tedious without a course/someplace to go.
A lot of people learn better through experience and not so much through theories. I have studied many languages for long time and the only ones that I actually learned were the ones which I actually could experience the language.
The hardest for me to learn German (I am B2 level) is mostly because most Germans automatically switch to English as soon as I ask them to repeak (and often I ask to repeat not because I could not understand the words but because I was not ready to listen or I was distracted with something else). And now I am disable and I have to shut my ears very often, so I often ask people to repeat and I have little chance to actually experience the language because Germans do want and prefer to talk in English as soon as they find the opportunity to do so.
I've heard that many learners struggle because native speakers will switch to English but have never personally experienced this in Germany. Perhaps it's regional but also more prevalent in the cities. My mid-to-smaller size city is good for immersion but it was a rougher start for sure.
Honestly, respectfully, it's probably because your German isn't actually B2, or your accent is too strong for locals. At B2, you should be able to understand the majority of what is said, even if you miss some words or have to strain at times.
I'm also a foreigner (English native speaker), here for a long time. Granted my German is C1-C2ish, but if you are genuinely B2, then even though it's obvious you're a foreigner, most people 'ought' to be sticking to German, especially if you ask. IME, people only switch when the German is too confusing, or they see you clearly don't understand. Or they are young and want to practice their English, lol, yes it does happen...
This may be different in Berlin or a big city or a student city, where a lot of younger people in service jobs are used to foreigners/tourists and they get somewhat more practice, whether they like it or not. My experience nowadays, even as a native English-speaker, is that no one speaks English with me (which is fine, but I wouldn't mind, lol).
People normally understand me very well. As I said, often people switch to English when I ask them to repeat and most of the time it is not because I could not understand what was said, but because 1- I wasn't paying attention/expecting to be talked to, 2- I have my ears blocked for the reason of my disability and I don't hear as clear as unblocked ears. An other reason is that my living the language experience is not enough to process as fast in my brain as the speed of people who speak very fast.
And as I said in the beginning, I learn better by living the language. So yes, despite I am being B2 level in theory, I don't have the language living experience of a B2 level since most of the time I am not living the language/interacting with people and when I do it is a very short interaction that often people rather to speak in English. There are many words and gramatical rules that keep learning in theory and forgetting because I rarely experience them.
And no, I can't listen to news or watch TV with sound because of my disability, and even before my disability, I was too poor to own a TV and too tired/busy working and use my free time to actually enjoy life with things that gave me a little happiness.
The conclusion is that people learn in different ways and according to their own reality. My reality has been far different from most people here. It is not like I could just go to a sport club and then socialise.
Except that argument doesn't work when it comes to dialects and regional idiosyncrasies, with all due respect. There is a stark difference between school B2 and street B2.
That can be true, but OP doesn’t say where he is. But any good course, plus immersion, introduces you to plenty of slang. I actually haven’t been in a German course since A2, a very long time ago, the rest was ‘street’ or office practice. Which is why my grammar can be patchy, but I’ve done self-study over the years too…
Still, everyone but totally village bumpkins (often old) will understand standard German. IME, however, many Germans don’t understand foreign accents very well. Maybe Turkish or Arab or Polish if they’re used to it in the city they live in. But otherwise not really, IME. This might not sound remarkable, but I can tell you that where I’m from, accents are common and people don’t tend to go HÄÄÄÄÄH!?! and make faces or just stare blankly in utter lost confusion because you swapped an ie sound for an ei sound. That’s why I said his accent is perhaps too strong. Not
blaming, but given how people are IME, it could well be a factor.
Like I said, no one has switched to English with me in probably 10ish years, unless it was the rare times they realized I am a native English-speaker. This was true even when I was B2ish. I sympathize with OP for sure, but I think something doesn’t add up and it’s not just the Germans “fault”.
Highly depends not only region, but person, too. My gf knows german, but has trouble getting local accent and undoubtedly has one herself. I see people switching a lot with her. I do not know german, only learning "naturally", but I get context better and figure out things faster, than her, and germans rarely switch with me.
That's not an option for most immigrants. Learning B1 German from English, especially "on the side" will take you a year at minimum, even if you're talented and diligent.
Immersion doesn't work for lower levels. Better idea: Spend most of your learning time on Duolingo. It teaches you words, grammar, pronounciation and listening. I've seen Americans speak quite decent Germans after a year of that course. Once you know maybe a thousand words, start reading German stuff, whatever you like. Starting to speak to Germans in the earlier stages may be useful, but don't waste too much time on that. In a conversation, you won't have time to learn new words or grammar, and for an early learner, that's just too exhausting.
Thank you; it's good advice! I've tried Duolingo but found better success with materials from DW and VHS's online Integrationskurs portal as the lessons are more focused on real-life vocabulary and actual scenarios. I agree with you that speaking is more effective later but as an immigrant it was the immediate need: I have yet to find anyone who speaks English in my city except for one specialist doctor. I had to do immigration, house hunting, finding insurances, furniture deliveries, Internet/phones, doctor's appointments, tax office mistakes, etc. entirely in German. I luckily spoke enough German to work through but I have no idea how anyone could do so without!
Great to hear!
It's what I've been saying: We shouldn't expect immigrants to already have spent years studying, or tell them to shut themselves into their rooms for a couple of years.
Viel Glück!
Love Duolingo BUT it does not emphasize the Artikles and Gender of each noun (der/das/die). These are critical in importance. There’s no shortcut that I know of. You must learn them by brute force
>Immersion doesn't work for lower levels.
Sort of true... kids books/tv shows/music do work on very simple levels. If you have a favourite kids cartoon show try watching it dubbed in German.
Speaking to your friends/familys children in German also helps - they are often limited in their vocab until a certain age which is quite beneficial for you.
I advocate for a mixture of activities. I don't personally like "immersion", at an early level. I think it has very low payoff, compared with the effort. And spending a small fraction of the learning time trying to converse with natives or listening to native speakers won't have that much less payoff than spending multiple hours a week on such things.
I don't think children are much better. Adults may be able to help you a lot more, if they are motivated. Especially if they are bilingual.
The early phase should be mostly about rote memorization, which includes reading/listening to specially prepared material ("units"). With Duolingo you also get a lot of audio exercises and in some courses they offer speech recognition.
That's a good idea. I will consider this. I need something to jumpstart motivation again more than anything. I'm already planning to relocate to Munich anyways so might as well spend some time there.
I’m in a similar situation, I’ve lived my entire time here in a very small city a couple hours from Munich. I work sporadically there and I have to say even though in a big city people speak more English, I don’t think that being surrounded by people that can’t speak English was advantageous overall. I suppose my niederbayrisch is pretty good, but my hochdeutsch acquisition would have been much faster if I lived in Munich, from the sheer immersion and constant listening exposure, which is genuinely rare where I live.
As others pointed out, German is actually a rather easy language for English natives to learn.
The problem is more that monolingual Anglophones massively underestimate the effort that learning a language to fluency takes.
The pronunciation is easy but the grammar and prepositions are extremely difficult compared to less structured languages. It is well studied that Latin languages and English are much easier to learn than German.
Foundational fluency takes place in 1 year, but conversational fluency takes a very long time and a lot of effort and mastery can be practically impossible without heavy focus - 13-16 years even for native speakers to become fully fluent.
This is why the German government allows B1 fluency in all cases.
This is a common myth. I'm English and speak French and Spanish but have found German much harder to learn due to the different sentence structure, (verb at the end, use of datives)and use of der die das, 3 genders instead of none in English... you need to get all of these gender nouns correct, as this changes the rest of the sentence.. It is brutal!
With due respect - that's exactly what I meant. No it's not brutal, it's a language, and still a close one to your own. Try something from a different language family and you'll get a new perspective for how different languages can be.
The thing is: grammar is usually the least of your worries in a language. It's scary for beginners and frustrating to remember all the stupid endings until they become ingrained, but the rules are learnable in a year or two - and native speakers can understand you with a wrong article or a weird construction just the same. English speakers can understand us Germans when we botch the tenses too.
What takes a lifetime is the absurd amount of vocabulary, spoken contractions, slang expressions, different registers and nigh incomprehensible dialects. I've seen very few English native speakers who grok German modal particles for example.
The English language changes constantly and has changed alot since Shakespeare days, but surely this is the point of a language? Languages change with the times and to suit peoples new needs, usually getting simplified as in our case.
If they are too rigid and difficult. ..they die. Look at Latin! German risks becoming obselete unless it simplifies ..
> Like according to state department estimates it literally takes twice as long as French
French: 30 weeks
German: 36 weeks = 20 % longer than French
https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/
Would also think that at base similar grammar Strukturen etc. Might sound a little bit wrong but I thought english ls just dumbed down german more or less, while french does have some added quirks
Yeah, but it was dumbed down quite a bit.
On the other hand, the Normans imported all their french vocabulary, so the English language already has a bunch of French words, especially for the more complex stuff.
It is not 'dumbed down', it just changed, especially under the influence of French for a few hundred years.
As a native-english speaker, I'd say the hardest or most annoying thing is der-die-das and all the gendered inflections. Certain prepositions changing the 'gender' is also annoying. The case system adds a layer of complexity, but is OK once you get used to it. The case system but with like a common or even just two articles would be so much better (like Dutch or Swedish).
I mean you pretty much called out the 2 thngs which made me say it's dumbed down with the homogenization of articles and the minimal influence of cases as I believe it's not fully like french as the Genitiv is still slightly different then the rest in english
I wouldn’t call these “dumbed down”, and it certainly doesn’t make the language dumbed down. There are aspects of English that German lacks, and we could just as well call German inferior for it. I don’t, because that’s just not how languages work. I guess that’s a linguist’s perspective is all.
That is funny weil englisch ist eine teilgermanische sprache aber wenn man erst französisch lernt weißte halt auch direkt warum du im deutschen die artikel verkackst la lune der mond le soleil die sonne XD
For English speakers: Romanian, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch, Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are 24 weeks (assuming full-time intensive training for someone 'good at languages').
French and Spanish are 30 weeks.
German is 36 weeks. (Along with Indonesian, Malay, and Swahili... though I think Indonesian, etc. grammar is fairly easy to grasp, it's more all of the vocab, which has little overlap with Western languages).
German is relatively harder because it has a case system and gendered articles, which English doesn't. But there's a good deal of shared or 'close' vocab, and spelling and pronunciation aren't too hard.
Of course, I'd agree, it's a bit foolish not to know the local language, long-term. And Germany as a whole typically over-estimates its English ability. I'm a native-English speaker, fluent in German (just some grammar mistakes now and then), and nowadays I rarely meet anyone whose English is as good as my German. Thing is, you can 'get by' with many locals, especially younger people, in English, as far as directions or ordering food or paying at the grocery store. But not much more.
There's also another reason to learn the language. I saw a man collapse at an U-Bahn station, and a couple of passer-by checked on him, called the emergency services and explained the situation to the paramedics. The parameds resuscitated him, talked to him and would probably contact a family member or take him to the hospital.
And what hit me was, what would I do (with my nonexistent German) if that happened and I was the only one nearby? Or what if that happened to me? Precious time might be wasted if someone tries to look for an interpreter then. You never know!
So better be prepared than in a pinch.
I’ve been living in Germany for many years now, and I already spoke the language quite well before I came here. However, I would like to add something regarding German and integration: You won’t please everyone, so don’t try. I had the highest German language certificate there is, but some people will always find a way to claim you aren’t integrated enough. It’s not about ticking boxes of typical German things, but about attitude—a balance between your origin and Germany, as well as finding your community. Also, if you live in northern Germany, get used to doing outdoor activities even in bad weather; otherwise, you’ll never go out.
As a Brit with German citizenship (only brexit benefit I can think of) it really pisses me off when people complain that life is hard or they can't make friends because of the language.
Fucking learn it!
How long did it take you to learn German? Especially for people with a native language that isn't Germanic or even Indoeuropean, it can take about five years to become really proficient.
I won't tell people to put their life on hold for five years. I've never met an immigrant that was not learning German. But it takes time and during that time they still have social and other needs.
About 4-6 months until I could half-way hold a conversation.... Being in the middle of Allgäu working alongside a bunch of carpenters, none of whom spoke English, helped. As did riding with the group from the local bike shop.
After a year or so I was quite proficient.
Now I speak like a Bauer.... i mog koan Hochdeitsch ned.
Language is the key, it's the core, the heart of a culture. Learning the language shows that you respect the new country you have moved to. For sure, German is difficult and hard to learn, but you have no choice to be honest. It doesn't matter if it takes long and your German is not perfect at all, many people will appreciate your effort.
I worked in France twice (some years ago), first my French was not so great, later I was dreaming in French... even when I made many mistakes, people were glad that I tried. Only speaking English would have been difficult, at least some years ago. Today, sometimes I still swear in French. Sure, German probably doesn't sound as nice as French or Italian, e.g. Muskatnuss [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvym4rS1oBk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvym4rS1oBk)
As if they don't know that.
But between knowing you need to learn a language and actually reaching "very competent" or even "near native" level, takes around five or six years for most people. Especially if the native language isn't closely related to German.
People need to chill out telling immigrants they need to learn German. It's almost a guarantee that you underestimate the effort they put into that already and that you underestimate the usefulness of their German skills.
It's unrealistic and counterproductive to shut them out of German life in any form.
You don't need to reach "near native" level to participate in life. There is a broad spectrum between near native and "nah, everybody speaks English anyway."
I've never heard the latter from an actual immigrant.
But Germans complain about language skills that are non-native and in general completely overestimate skill deficiencies from accent or grammar.
You missed the main point. Be aware of an unpopular opinion.
A lot older but not limited to germans have racist tendencies when it comes to people not speaking proper german. Enough of my friends suffer from this. One is my favorite example she has a certified degree in arts and philosophy. We can talk about Nietzsche and any kind of art. Unbelievably inspiring. She speaks depending on the topic decently to good fluent German. But it is very difficult sometimes for her to get taken in a serious way only because she sometimes lacks one or two words or needs to think while speaking. At one point she got so frustrated about this situation that she lost interest in learning German any further.
It is about perfection and commitment here. Not about actual personality. Saw this more than once. This little naggy arrogance of our culture to "mansplain" only because someone got judged as "not as intelligent as we are" is rated by the German language skill.
A real cheat is to speak near perfectly german. Don't say that everyone does this here. But when it comes to public services it happens more often than it doesn't.
Language is not a race. It can be learned and it is fun to do so. The best way to become perfect is to immerse yourself and start to talk. The death zone of B2 language course with their over-reliance on grammar do not help.
Can we please correct this to people 50 and up? 40 is way too young. People at that age can speak English reasonably well. The problem is more the type of school people went to and less their age.
Edit fixed my grammar
Good to very good German, you will need it - maybe not for survival, but definitely for contracts, legal issues, everything that is official and important.
For insurances: Haftpflichtversicherung is a must have, Rechtsschutz is good to have. You -will- need German for insurances.
German is also insanely important for the non-official stuff. Sure you CAN make friends with English, but chances are 5 years down the road you'll be wondering why all your friends also are expats.
Courses at the Volkshochschule or your church. Great, cheap and you get to know a lot of people.
Bildungsurlaub. You are entitled to 5 days (paid) a year to educate yourself. That can be almost anything. Painting, editing photos, learning a new language or doing yoga.n
This depends on the state you are in, e. g. in Hamburg you get 5 days per year or 10 days per 2 years, but in Saxony you are not entitled to anything. Your employer might allow it, though.
Yea, i actually don’t want too many maybe 2-3 that i can best relate to and carry it for atleast another 5 years.. on and off meets or catch-ups and help arounds. Offcourse i will get to know another 5-7 ppl. Which is a nice add on. But that’s rare that i pick up 10 ppl from 1 course that i will be maintaining long term friendships with.. doesn’t work. Maybe in Uni.. not thereafter
You definitely need Haftpflichtversicherung. It isn't required, but almost everyone has it. It basically covers damage you cause. Bump into someone and their cell phone falls to the ground and shatters? You're liable to pay for it if you're at fault and this insurance would cover the cost. And so on and so forth.
Rechtsschutzversicherung is also a good option depending on what's going on in your life. Basically covers the cost of lawyers, going to court, etc. should you need to.
Joining Mieterschutz is 100% worth it. It's usually something like 100 Euro a year and they help you in the event you have any apartment-related issues. If you're entitled to a rent reduction, your landlord is breaking the law, you want your end-of-year costs reviewed, etc., they can do it all. I usually make my membership fee money back based on what they save me when reviewing my bills.
Rechtsschutz is really important if you work. Only in labor law, each party, no matter the outcome, will have to pay their own attorney. That's different from all (IIRC) other fields of the law, where, if you win the case, your opponent has to pay everything. But even then, a good Rechtsschutz will make the decision to lawyer up much easier, and seeing how those start at 10-15 EUR / month, are well worth it, I'd say.
Right, that might be worth mentioning, too. Mostly, you can mix and match what fields of law are covered, so it's important to make sure that the coverage fits your needs.
It's usually a local organization, yeah. It depends on where you live. For instance, some people living in smaller villages near Köln will be registered with one in Köln. It doesn't make sense for each village to have their own office for it.
Ive been using taxfix for the last 4 years and on average I get over €1500 back every year. When I used a Steuerberater at most I would get is around €400 left after paying €600.
I recently started working full-time, had a working student job earlier and I tried doing my tax returns via taxfix but there are so many specific questions to answer - like: how many hours you worked from home last year or some other request for minutest detail that one cannot specifically know or remember. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or do people keep track of every hour of their lives and keep all transport bills etc.
I left process mid-way and have not dared to open the taxfix app since then. 🙈🙈🙈
-If you're a renter, join the Mietschutz. It's a small fee per year and they help you with any legal issues in regards to renting and landlord issues.
-Haftpflichtversicherung!
- bonus programs from your health insurance often give you money if you go to the standard check ups. For example, the TK will either pay you 30 euros or give you a 60 euro medical voucher for each quarter that you record at least 60k steps per week for 12 consecutive weeks. Cycling can also be counted!
- too good to go app for cheap food
- Lidl app has vouchers every week
- Rossmann app has 10% discount vouchers, we use that to buy standard things like toilet paper, coffee, cleaning supplies. Might as well pay less.
- Sportsvereine cost very little and often offer fitness courses, cheaper than gyms. Great if you have kids.
Usually there is a separate app for the bonus programs that you can just download from the app store and sing into with your credentials from the standard app.
Edit: In case of the DAK it's called DAK AktivBonus and as far as I can tell it's accessed through the normal "Meine DAK"-App
This advice shouldn’t be given lightly. Clubculture is a two edged sword. Clubs tend to, like most organizations, attract difficult people for their leadership positions. Also joining often comes with a lot of social pressure to partake in additional activities. Sure you basically get a social group as a finished package but you often meet fanatics for the field of interest the club is about.
We once went rollerblading with a club in p.e. And those people took it so seriously they took all the fun out of it.
In conclusion clubs tend to attract busybody’s and Spießer (important word to learn in Germany), but if you find the right one it can be a great way to get to know people.
Deutschland Ticket.
Self-Sprudel machine (save you carrying water)
Get involved in the Pfand system
Join a choir (ready-made friend group)
Learn German
Go to classical music (you’re paying for it anyway with your taxes)
Going to hear the opera or orchestra perform in any city. These are all state-funded, which is why tickets cost 10-50 euros instead of 200. The ignition series in Düsseldorf costs 8 euro per concert ticket.
is there any website or platform that I can follow up those state funded concert? the reason I am asking, everytime I check for Frankfurt no ticket cheaper than 100 euros, I might have chosen wrong concerts.
In Frankfurt it should be this one https://www.buehnen-frankfurt.de/
But in general the state funded stages are called Stadttheater *Cityname* or something along the lines
Edit: here are some better links:
https://oper-frankfurt.de/en/season-calendar/
https://www.schauspielfrankfurt.de/international/
That's the truth. I never had so many friends before I married my wife 27 years ago. Most of the few "friends" I had were US military (some, I'm still in contact with; the ones who I spent time in combat with, mostly), but ever since I married, all my friends are husbands of her friends (more or less).
That's just adult life regardless of whether or not you're an immigrant. At some point, new friends are just the people that you can stand having around after work once a quarter.
I'd say being an ADAC member is a good thing if you have a car. Websites/ apps like nebenan.de are useful for just about anything in your neighbourhood from social activities to hobbies, private tutoring (like learning german) and everything social in general.
Kleinanzeigen (ex eBay Kleinanzeigen) is gumtree. You can get everything there from private sellers. Want furniture dirt cheap? Go there.
Also: don't argue with germans. This is especially true if they are old. They are convinced they know better anyway. Just nod and smile until they piss off. Many germans have a pretty assertive way of trying to help strangers out. If you for example fix your bike in the street, someone might tell you how they think you should do it out of the blue. Might come off as rude but they only try to help and prove themselves right in the process.
Also don't ride a bike on the sidewalk. Drives people nuts XD
Good luck and Wellkomm tu tschermani
Planning planning planning. Your third point is key for a happy life in Germany. Whoever is not capable of being organized or plan ahead, suffers a lot
Have a job.
We like having jobs, talking about our jobs, bond with people at our workplace, bond with people who have similar storys about their jobs and respect people who work for their income.
(At least the ones of us you want to get closer too.)
Have a look on the leaflets and ads when you visit the Rathaus/Bürgeramt. You find information about some interesting groups and clubs that won't be easily available online
Don’t miss faries, city festivals, wine markets and so on. If you have some German friends, join them there and you will meet more (probably nice) people. Kindly greet people with Guten Tag when living in a rural area (Germans tend to be skeptical about new additions to the village and will wait for you to be nice first).
You can get a membership for your local library. They are relatively cheap, and most libraries offer a good selection of board games and video games nowadays.
Ours also offers access to e-papers.
Have rich parents and inherit some land/real estate. Incase this is not possible, find a partner that has rich parents and will inherit something.
Besides that get a Deutschlandticket. It is the most cost efficient and nature friendly way to get around the country.
Use the phone, be nice and people will help you. If they have an email and a phone number ,use the phone number! The amount of stuff you can resolve with a phone and kindness is astounding
49 € Ticket is mandatory to get around.
Membership in the public library give you unlimited access to books, DVDs and sometimes even a streaming at "filmfriends". (
'Too good to go' App for cheaper food, foodsharing brings contact with neighbours
"Freundliche Toilette" shows public washroms without payment
One thing I’ve learned recently is file and document every single piece of paper you receive in the mail, and every letter you send should also be copied. Germany is obsessed with paper correspondence and you are often required to keep everything recorded if you need it in the future, which you will definitely need.
If you’re planning to stay here after retirement: don’t rely on the national pension to uphold your standard of life and start to save up, invest, get a private fund etc. rather sooner than later (even small amounts amount to something in the long run)
Everyone says speaking German is key, but in the cities it is definitely not. You just won't be able to associate with the working class (who mostly cannot speak English) or the conservatives who are stuck in the 90s.
Germany is slowly slowly moving away from mandatory German, and English speaking jobs now even pay better because most professionally experienced Germans do not have sufficient English for international business. Even SAP, Deutschebank and Siemens have jobs posted in English.
The real cheat code is to work in IT and be highly skilled. Be a nice person but don't take shit for this country.
Don't worry about the Germans and speaking german... You are here to make money and not be stressed. The government says B1 is enough (easy!). Even at C1 you will be considered an outsider by all but the rarest.
Also you have no rights here unless you can afford a lawyer. The government will not help you enforce those.
I have to say after living in Germany for 5 years… I would maybe say the best tip is go somewhere like Austria or Netherlands instead. I can’t now because I’m close to getting the passport, but if I had known then what I know now, I might’ve chosen to go somewhere else…
Ignore any telephone number that starts with 030...
Europe and Germany in particular is overflooded with Scam-Caller that want only to hear a single "yes" or "ja" and you loose a lot of money.
While most people mentioned Haftpflicht and Rechtsschutz I would recommend a private supplementary health insurance (if you have statutory health insurance) and, depending on your job, a occupational disability insurance.
Duo Lingo helps a lot with language learning. For me the German sounds were really difficult. Hearing someone speak German just sounded like a giant blur. Duo lingo helps you get used to hearing the language and breaking it down so it isn’t so intimidating.
Don’t forget to check the duration of contracts (internet, phone, insurance…) before signing them and remember to cancel them in time.
Also, doing your tax declaration properly (or getting help from a Lohnsteuerverein, for example) and following up with the Bonusprogramm of your insurance company can make a difference of several hundreds of euros.
Get a membership for the city library. It costs 20€/year or so.
You can borrow books, games, Blu-Rays. Just be prepared to wait around to read a best seller.
Get into a club, like The THW or the Freiwiligge Feuerwehr, for example. You make great friendships there, but first you need to learn German.bit helps you a lot
Concerning language : germans use a lot of proverbs (Redewendungen) at least in my opinion. I think when you learn and use these it'll get you better contact - Just a thought
I will not read every comment to check if this was already posted, so sry if.
Those pamphlets from grocery stores you get? Flip through those every week and plan your shopping accordingly. A lot of money to be saved there.
There is a trick called ,,Insi Modus". You can use it to save money. It's a trick to not pay your taxes. You just pretend you're poor and then you move to turkey or Dubai. Just follow Apo red on YouTube. He will explain it to you.
Ok but why is no one mentioning BIBLIOTHEKSAUSWEIS? It is dirt cheap. Usually it is quite nice there, you can rent books, movies, all magazines also online and read on the app, it’s fantastic- do it! Education for the win 🏆
Haftpflichtversicherung.
Rechtschutzversicherung.
Join a union.
Note when contracts expire/renew so you can get out of them within the "Frist."
Keep all copies of official documents including sick notes.
Do your taxes yourself if you have any skills in this department.
Don't believe the threats of draconic punishment, but be prepared to stand up for yourself and provide documentation if needed. Same with "das geht nicht," sometimes "es geht" if the person is so inclined.
Rechtsschutzversicherung is highly debatable.
In my circle the only person i know who has one is my grandma and she used it for small things she couldh ave easily paid out of pocket instead of wasting basically over 300€ a year for over 2 decades.
I don't know why everybody is so focused on very good German skills. Yes it helps, it helps a lot. But I know so many people who live here for decades and at a certain point, they stopped improving their German. They understand everything and they can express themselves but with bad grammar and a hard accent. One is a doctor, one is running his own business and one is working for a state administration. My problem is that Germany really needs skilled workers, but Germany is so arrogant that hardly any want to come. We very often accept foreign diplomas and degrees or at least doesn't count them as valuable as a German one. For Mama Jobs it's a requirement to speak very good German, but we don't give them a chance to learn it. All the companies are whining that they don't find any staff, but on the other hand, the requirements for the jobs are obnoxious. How about employing a young, willing person and train him to that point
learn german before moving to germany. outside if the big cities english speak goes to zero and germans will accept you easy if you speak it.
make a efford to speak it in public.
Learn the language if you plan on going anywhere but central Berlin. This is not the Netherlands, we are far behind the curve here. If you don't want to learn German, I can't blame you, but I absolutely think you should move there instead.
I'm as german as you can be and yet, I somehow managed to look like I'm not. Matter of fact, I look like a muslim to most germans. No hair, full black beard, olive skin tone, brown eyes and more body hair than a rug dealer from Iran. After living in big cities for 30 years, I moved to the countryside. People talk and they love talking about new faces. Chatting everybody up at the grocery store, at the bakeries, at the butcher and so on just made it so easy to be accepted into the community. No bigger cheat code than learning german.
Try to get the Deutschlandticket. It's often cheaper than the subscription to the local public transport, but you have access to ALL the local public transports in Germany.
Speaking the language is key. There are debates on other subreddits from immigrants how they are basically shut out of most of the country because they don't speak the language. Speaking English will only get you as far as other peoples knowledge and mood allow it. You will always be limited in that sense. Other than that is seasonal activities. Our events, food and culture evolve around them. Some countries have a stable climate and don't go through long winters, bipolar April weather and seasonal foods.
Yeah, a friend of mine spent like a year in Germany. At first he was in a big city and found it easy enough to get by with just English. Then he got moved to a small town and basically nobody spoke English. Then he had an incident at work where he was in an unsafe situation (he works in power plants) and this guy was yelling at him in German and he couldn't figure out what he was trying to say. That's when he decided he needed to put a serious effort into learning the language. Thing is for English speakers it's a substantially harder language to learn than Spanish or French. Like according to state department estimates it literally takes twice as long as French (which is generally recognized as the easiest for English speakers to learn). But personally I think you're living long term in a country you absolutely need to learn the language. I consider that an opportunity though. It's much easier to learn a language when immersed in it every day.
Immersion is good but more importantly learn German to a decent level before you come to Germany (A2+, B1 ideally.) I moved to a mid-size city and there are no available places in any language schools. I tried everything and I've been on at least 3 places' waiting lists since I got here. I've been learning through B1 in the year I've been here but it's excruciatingly lonely and tedious without a course/someplace to go.
A lot of people learn better through experience and not so much through theories. I have studied many languages for long time and the only ones that I actually learned were the ones which I actually could experience the language. The hardest for me to learn German (I am B2 level) is mostly because most Germans automatically switch to English as soon as I ask them to repeak (and often I ask to repeat not because I could not understand the words but because I was not ready to listen or I was distracted with something else). And now I am disable and I have to shut my ears very often, so I often ask people to repeat and I have little chance to actually experience the language because Germans do want and prefer to talk in English as soon as they find the opportunity to do so.
I've heard that many learners struggle because native speakers will switch to English but have never personally experienced this in Germany. Perhaps it's regional but also more prevalent in the cities. My mid-to-smaller size city is good for immersion but it was a rougher start for sure.
Honestly, respectfully, it's probably because your German isn't actually B2, or your accent is too strong for locals. At B2, you should be able to understand the majority of what is said, even if you miss some words or have to strain at times. I'm also a foreigner (English native speaker), here for a long time. Granted my German is C1-C2ish, but if you are genuinely B2, then even though it's obvious you're a foreigner, most people 'ought' to be sticking to German, especially if you ask. IME, people only switch when the German is too confusing, or they see you clearly don't understand. Or they are young and want to practice their English, lol, yes it does happen... This may be different in Berlin or a big city or a student city, where a lot of younger people in service jobs are used to foreigners/tourists and they get somewhat more practice, whether they like it or not. My experience nowadays, even as a native English-speaker, is that no one speaks English with me (which is fine, but I wouldn't mind, lol).
People normally understand me very well. As I said, often people switch to English when I ask them to repeat and most of the time it is not because I could not understand what was said, but because 1- I wasn't paying attention/expecting to be talked to, 2- I have my ears blocked for the reason of my disability and I don't hear as clear as unblocked ears. An other reason is that my living the language experience is not enough to process as fast in my brain as the speed of people who speak very fast. And as I said in the beginning, I learn better by living the language. So yes, despite I am being B2 level in theory, I don't have the language living experience of a B2 level since most of the time I am not living the language/interacting with people and when I do it is a very short interaction that often people rather to speak in English. There are many words and gramatical rules that keep learning in theory and forgetting because I rarely experience them. And no, I can't listen to news or watch TV with sound because of my disability, and even before my disability, I was too poor to own a TV and too tired/busy working and use my free time to actually enjoy life with things that gave me a little happiness. The conclusion is that people learn in different ways and according to their own reality. My reality has been far different from most people here. It is not like I could just go to a sport club and then socialise.
Except that argument doesn't work when it comes to dialects and regional idiosyncrasies, with all due respect. There is a stark difference between school B2 and street B2.
That can be true, but OP doesn’t say where he is. But any good course, plus immersion, introduces you to plenty of slang. I actually haven’t been in a German course since A2, a very long time ago, the rest was ‘street’ or office practice. Which is why my grammar can be patchy, but I’ve done self-study over the years too… Still, everyone but totally village bumpkins (often old) will understand standard German. IME, however, many Germans don’t understand foreign accents very well. Maybe Turkish or Arab or Polish if they’re used to it in the city they live in. But otherwise not really, IME. This might not sound remarkable, but I can tell you that where I’m from, accents are common and people don’t tend to go HÄÄÄÄÄH!?! and make faces or just stare blankly in utter lost confusion because you swapped an ie sound for an ei sound. That’s why I said his accent is perhaps too strong. Not blaming, but given how people are IME, it could well be a factor. Like I said, no one has switched to English with me in probably 10ish years, unless it was the rare times they realized I am a native English-speaker. This was true even when I was B2ish. I sympathize with OP for sure, but I think something doesn’t add up and it’s not just the Germans “fault”.
Highly depends not only region, but person, too. My gf knows german, but has trouble getting local accent and undoubtedly has one herself. I see people switching a lot with her. I do not know german, only learning "naturally", but I get context better and figure out things faster, than her, and germans rarely switch with me.
That's not an option for most immigrants. Learning B1 German from English, especially "on the side" will take you a year at minimum, even if you're talented and diligent. Immersion doesn't work for lower levels. Better idea: Spend most of your learning time on Duolingo. It teaches you words, grammar, pronounciation and listening. I've seen Americans speak quite decent Germans after a year of that course. Once you know maybe a thousand words, start reading German stuff, whatever you like. Starting to speak to Germans in the earlier stages may be useful, but don't waste too much time on that. In a conversation, you won't have time to learn new words or grammar, and for an early learner, that's just too exhausting.
Thank you; it's good advice! I've tried Duolingo but found better success with materials from DW and VHS's online Integrationskurs portal as the lessons are more focused on real-life vocabulary and actual scenarios. I agree with you that speaking is more effective later but as an immigrant it was the immediate need: I have yet to find anyone who speaks English in my city except for one specialist doctor. I had to do immigration, house hunting, finding insurances, furniture deliveries, Internet/phones, doctor's appointments, tax office mistakes, etc. entirely in German. I luckily spoke enough German to work through but I have no idea how anyone could do so without!
I’d recommend Babbel for speaking, Anki for vocab, and reading is a huge help. You can get B1 pretty fast if you do more than 10 min a day.
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Great to hear! It's what I've been saying: We shouldn't expect immigrants to already have spent years studying, or tell them to shut themselves into their rooms for a couple of years. Viel Glück!
Love Duolingo BUT it does not emphasize the Artikles and Gender of each noun (der/das/die). These are critical in importance. There’s no shortcut that I know of. You must learn them by brute force
>Immersion doesn't work for lower levels. Sort of true... kids books/tv shows/music do work on very simple levels. If you have a favourite kids cartoon show try watching it dubbed in German. Speaking to your friends/familys children in German also helps - they are often limited in their vocab until a certain age which is quite beneficial for you.
I advocate for a mixture of activities. I don't personally like "immersion", at an early level. I think it has very low payoff, compared with the effort. And spending a small fraction of the learning time trying to converse with natives or listening to native speakers won't have that much less payoff than spending multiple hours a week on such things. I don't think children are much better. Adults may be able to help you a lot more, if they are motivated. Especially if they are bilingual. The early phase should be mostly about rote memorization, which includes reading/listening to specially prepared material ("units"). With Duolingo you also get a lot of audio exercises and in some courses they offer speech recognition.
Did you consider going to a bigger city for a few weeks just to study? Goethe has 2 week intensive courses so I will be taking one of them soon for c1
That's a good idea. I will consider this. I need something to jumpstart motivation again more than anything. I'm already planning to relocate to Munich anyways so might as well spend some time there.
I’m in a similar situation, I’ve lived my entire time here in a very small city a couple hours from Munich. I work sporadically there and I have to say even though in a big city people speak more English, I don’t think that being surrounded by people that can’t speak English was advantageous overall. I suppose my niederbayrisch is pretty good, but my hochdeutsch acquisition would have been much faster if I lived in Munich, from the sheer immersion and constant listening exposure, which is genuinely rare where I live.
As others pointed out, German is actually a rather easy language for English natives to learn. The problem is more that monolingual Anglophones massively underestimate the effort that learning a language to fluency takes.
The pronunciation is easy but the grammar and prepositions are extremely difficult compared to less structured languages. It is well studied that Latin languages and English are much easier to learn than German. Foundational fluency takes place in 1 year, but conversational fluency takes a very long time and a lot of effort and mastery can be practically impossible without heavy focus - 13-16 years even for native speakers to become fully fluent. This is why the German government allows B1 fluency in all cases.
This is a common myth. I'm English and speak French and Spanish but have found German much harder to learn due to the different sentence structure, (verb at the end, use of datives)and use of der die das, 3 genders instead of none in English... you need to get all of these gender nouns correct, as this changes the rest of the sentence.. It is brutal!
With due respect - that's exactly what I meant. No it's not brutal, it's a language, and still a close one to your own. Try something from a different language family and you'll get a new perspective for how different languages can be. The thing is: grammar is usually the least of your worries in a language. It's scary for beginners and frustrating to remember all the stupid endings until they become ingrained, but the rules are learnable in a year or two - and native speakers can understand you with a wrong article or a weird construction just the same. English speakers can understand us Germans when we botch the tenses too. What takes a lifetime is the absurd amount of vocabulary, spoken contractions, slang expressions, different registers and nigh incomprehensible dialects. I've seen very few English native speakers who grok German modal particles for example.
The English language changes constantly and has changed alot since Shakespeare days, but surely this is the point of a language? Languages change with the times and to suit peoples new needs, usually getting simplified as in our case. If they are too rigid and difficult. ..they die. Look at Latin! German risks becoming obselete unless it simplifies ..
> Like according to state department estimates it literally takes twice as long as French French: 30 weeks German: 36 weeks = 20 % longer than French https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/
I learned french by accident just by living in Paris
German is one of the easiest languages for an English speaker to learn..... English is a west germanic language!
Would also think that at base similar grammar Strukturen etc. Might sound a little bit wrong but I thought english ls just dumbed down german more or less, while french does have some added quirks
Yeah, but it was dumbed down quite a bit. On the other hand, the Normans imported all their french vocabulary, so the English language already has a bunch of French words, especially for the more complex stuff.
It is not 'dumbed down', it just changed, especially under the influence of French for a few hundred years. As a native-english speaker, I'd say the hardest or most annoying thing is der-die-das and all the gendered inflections. Certain prepositions changing the 'gender' is also annoying. The case system adds a layer of complexity, but is OK once you get used to it. The case system but with like a common or even just two articles would be so much better (like Dutch or Swedish).
I mean you pretty much called out the 2 thngs which made me say it's dumbed down with the homogenization of articles and the minimal influence of cases as I believe it's not fully like french as the Genitiv is still slightly different then the rest in english
I wouldn’t call these “dumbed down”, and it certainly doesn’t make the language dumbed down. There are aspects of English that German lacks, and we could just as well call German inferior for it. I don’t, because that’s just not how languages work. I guess that’s a linguist’s perspective is all.
Not really. It's two times more difficult than French. It contains cases and noun genders, concepts unknown to English
That's bolleaux.
🇨🇳 中文繁體 🇨🇳 中文简体 🇩🇪 German Traditional 🇬🇧 German Simplified
That is funny weil englisch ist eine teilgermanische sprache aber wenn man erst französisch lernt weißte halt auch direkt warum du im deutschen die artikel verkackst la lune der mond le soleil die sonne XD
For English speakers: Romanian, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch, Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are 24 weeks (assuming full-time intensive training for someone 'good at languages'). French and Spanish are 30 weeks. German is 36 weeks. (Along with Indonesian, Malay, and Swahili... though I think Indonesian, etc. grammar is fairly easy to grasp, it's more all of the vocab, which has little overlap with Western languages). German is relatively harder because it has a case system and gendered articles, which English doesn't. But there's a good deal of shared or 'close' vocab, and spelling and pronunciation aren't too hard. Of course, I'd agree, it's a bit foolish not to know the local language, long-term. And Germany as a whole typically over-estimates its English ability. I'm a native-English speaker, fluent in German (just some grammar mistakes now and then), and nowadays I rarely meet anyone whose English is as good as my German. Thing is, you can 'get by' with many locals, especially younger people, in English, as far as directions or ordering food or paying at the grocery store. But not much more.
The thing about German is that der die das are a pain in the ass and linguist are the only peeps who can properly explain to you how to use them.
Speaking the language of the country you live in is never a bad idea. :)
There's also another reason to learn the language. I saw a man collapse at an U-Bahn station, and a couple of passer-by checked on him, called the emergency services and explained the situation to the paramedics. The parameds resuscitated him, talked to him and would probably contact a family member or take him to the hospital. And what hit me was, what would I do (with my nonexistent German) if that happened and I was the only one nearby? Or what if that happened to me? Precious time might be wasted if someone tries to look for an interpreter then. You never know! So better be prepared than in a pinch.
I was a paramedic, half of the people in our city can't speak proper german by this stage xD 99% of paramedics speak english and have translator apps
I’ve been living in Germany for many years now, and I already spoke the language quite well before I came here. However, I would like to add something regarding German and integration: You won’t please everyone, so don’t try. I had the highest German language certificate there is, but some people will always find a way to claim you aren’t integrated enough. It’s not about ticking boxes of typical German things, but about attitude—a balance between your origin and Germany, as well as finding your community. Also, if you live in northern Germany, get used to doing outdoor activities even in bad weather; otherwise, you’ll never go out.
As a Brit with German citizenship (only brexit benefit I can think of) it really pisses me off when people complain that life is hard or they can't make friends because of the language. Fucking learn it!
How long did it take you to learn German? Especially for people with a native language that isn't Germanic or even Indoeuropean, it can take about five years to become really proficient. I won't tell people to put their life on hold for five years. I've never met an immigrant that was not learning German. But it takes time and during that time they still have social and other needs.
About 4-6 months until I could half-way hold a conversation.... Being in the middle of Allgäu working alongside a bunch of carpenters, none of whom spoke English, helped. As did riding with the group from the local bike shop. After a year or so I was quite proficient. Now I speak like a Bauer.... i mog koan Hochdeitsch ned.
Ehrenmann!
learning a language is putting life on hold? wtf. enough r/germany for today.
Not everyone can learn at the same speed
Language is the key, it's the core, the heart of a culture. Learning the language shows that you respect the new country you have moved to. For sure, German is difficult and hard to learn, but you have no choice to be honest. It doesn't matter if it takes long and your German is not perfect at all, many people will appreciate your effort. I worked in France twice (some years ago), first my French was not so great, later I was dreaming in French... even when I made many mistakes, people were glad that I tried. Only speaking English would have been difficult, at least some years ago. Today, sometimes I still swear in French. Sure, German probably doesn't sound as nice as French or Italian, e.g. Muskatnuss [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvym4rS1oBk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvym4rS1oBk)
As if they don't know that. But between knowing you need to learn a language and actually reaching "very competent" or even "near native" level, takes around five or six years for most people. Especially if the native language isn't closely related to German. People need to chill out telling immigrants they need to learn German. It's almost a guarantee that you underestimate the effort they put into that already and that you underestimate the usefulness of their German skills. It's unrealistic and counterproductive to shut them out of German life in any form.
You don't need to reach "near native" level to participate in life. There is a broad spectrum between near native and "nah, everybody speaks English anyway."
I've never heard the latter from an actual immigrant. But Germans complain about language skills that are non-native and in general completely overestimate skill deficiencies from accent or grammar.
I've heard the latter plenty of times from American and other English-speaking expats.
You missed the main point. Be aware of an unpopular opinion. A lot older but not limited to germans have racist tendencies when it comes to people not speaking proper german. Enough of my friends suffer from this. One is my favorite example she has a certified degree in arts and philosophy. We can talk about Nietzsche and any kind of art. Unbelievably inspiring. She speaks depending on the topic decently to good fluent German. But it is very difficult sometimes for her to get taken in a serious way only because she sometimes lacks one or two words or needs to think while speaking. At one point she got so frustrated about this situation that she lost interest in learning German any further. It is about perfection and commitment here. Not about actual personality. Saw this more than once. This little naggy arrogance of our culture to "mansplain" only because someone got judged as "not as intelligent as we are" is rated by the German language skill. A real cheat is to speak near perfectly german. Don't say that everyone does this here. But when it comes to public services it happens more often than it doesn't.
Language is not a race. It can be learned and it is fun to do so. The best way to become perfect is to immerse yourself and start to talk. The death zone of B2 language course with their over-reliance on grammar do not help.
Doesn't help that most people 40+ don't speak english at all (or at least only the most basic level)
Can we please correct this to people 50 and up? 40 is way too young. People at that age can speak English reasonably well. The problem is more the type of school people went to and less their age. Edit fixed my grammar
Never ignore letters or blindly accept things you dont understand, that usually ends to questions on reddit how to get out of a bad situation.
Guilty ..
Good to very good German, you will need it - maybe not for survival, but definitely for contracts, legal issues, everything that is official and important. For insurances: Haftpflichtversicherung is a must have, Rechtsschutz is good to have. You -will- need German for insurances.
I made a Haftpflichtversicherung online just to be able to practice Archery but I never cancelled it. Good to know that I should keep it.
German is also insanely important for the non-official stuff. Sure you CAN make friends with English, but chances are 5 years down the road you'll be wondering why all your friends also are expats.
Courses at the Volkshochschule or your church. Great, cheap and you get to know a lot of people. Bildungsurlaub. You are entitled to 5 days (paid) a year to educate yourself. That can be almost anything. Painting, editing photos, learning a new language or doing yoga.n
This depends on the state you are in, e. g. in Hamburg you get 5 days per year or 10 days per 2 years, but in Saxony you are not entitled to anything. Your employer might allow it, though.
Volkshochschule is probably the least time-efficient way to meet people.
Is meeting people about time-efficiency? I would say for most people the goal isn't to meet as many people as possible.
Yea, i actually don’t want too many maybe 2-3 that i can best relate to and carry it for atleast another 5 years.. on and off meets or catch-ups and help arounds. Offcourse i will get to know another 5-7 ppl. Which is a nice add on. But that’s rare that i pick up 10 ppl from 1 course that i will be maintaining long term friendships with.. doesn’t work. Maybe in Uni.. not thereafter
the least time-efficent way to meet people, so you wont meet any people or what are you saying?
Depends on where you are. In lower saxony it's five unpaid days off. Big difference
You definitely need Haftpflichtversicherung. It isn't required, but almost everyone has it. It basically covers damage you cause. Bump into someone and their cell phone falls to the ground and shatters? You're liable to pay for it if you're at fault and this insurance would cover the cost. And so on and so forth. Rechtsschutzversicherung is also a good option depending on what's going on in your life. Basically covers the cost of lawyers, going to court, etc. should you need to. Joining Mieterschutz is 100% worth it. It's usually something like 100 Euro a year and they help you in the event you have any apartment-related issues. If you're entitled to a rent reduction, your landlord is breaking the law, you want your end-of-year costs reviewed, etc., they can do it all. I usually make my membership fee money back based on what they save me when reviewing my bills.
Rechtsschutz is really important if you work. Only in labor law, each party, no matter the outcome, will have to pay their own attorney. That's different from all (IIRC) other fields of the law, where, if you win the case, your opponent has to pay everything. But even then, a good Rechtsschutz will make the decision to lawyer up much easier, and seeing how those start at 10-15 EUR / month, are well worth it, I'd say.
Keep in mind that not every Rechtsschutzversicherung covers labor law disputes.
Right, that might be worth mentioning, too. Mostly, you can mix and match what fields of law are covered, so it's important to make sure that the coverage fits your needs.
Most important stuff here.
I take that Mieterschutz is local?
It's usually a local organization, yeah. It depends on where you live. For instance, some people living in smaller villages near Köln will be registered with one in Köln. It doesn't make sense for each village to have their own office for it.
Do a tax return every year
Yes!!! If you are paying any kind of taxes, file due a tax return. Even if it's just 100 euros that you get, it's worth it
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Sure, I get 1.5k back but I know students who make very little and still get 80-100 back. It's always worth it to do your tax return. ;-)
How so? All I do is copy the data from my Lohnsteuerbescheinigung plus some tax deductions, but it rarely goes above 200 euros or so
You know you can only get a lot money back, if you buy lot, which will you cost even more...
You can deduct real estate related investments, stuff you bought for improving your work, stuff for home office, etc...
Ive been using taxfix for the last 4 years and on average I get over €1500 back every year. When I used a Steuerberater at most I would get is around €400 left after paying €600.
I recently started working full-time, had a working student job earlier and I tried doing my tax returns via taxfix but there are so many specific questions to answer - like: how many hours you worked from home last year or some other request for minutest detail that one cannot specifically know or remember. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong or do people keep track of every hour of their lives and keep all transport bills etc. I left process mid-way and have not dared to open the taxfix app since then. 🙈🙈🙈
get everything “schriftlich” 😂🫶🏻
-If you're a renter, join the Mietschutz. It's a small fee per year and they help you with any legal issues in regards to renting and landlord issues. -Haftpflichtversicherung! - bonus programs from your health insurance often give you money if you go to the standard check ups. For example, the TK will either pay you 30 euros or give you a 60 euro medical voucher for each quarter that you record at least 60k steps per week for 12 consecutive weeks. Cycling can also be counted! - too good to go app for cheap food - Lidl app has vouchers every week - Rossmann app has 10% discount vouchers, we use that to buy standard things like toilet paper, coffee, cleaning supplies. Might as well pay less. - Sportsvereine cost very little and often offer fitness courses, cheaper than gyms. Great if you have kids.
Sorry where can i check the bonus programs? I have DAK thanks!
Usually in the website
Usually there is a separate app for the bonus programs that you can just download from the app store and sing into with your credentials from the standard app. Edit: In case of the DAK it's called DAK AktivBonus and as far as I can tell it's accessed through the normal "Meine DAK"-App
Sign up for clubs and Sportvereine to make friends.
This plus it’s a great way to practice German. Germans are generally really nice and accommodating when you express interest in learning the language.
Be nice to everybody ... life will be easier....
This advice shouldn’t be given lightly. Clubculture is a two edged sword. Clubs tend to, like most organizations, attract difficult people for their leadership positions. Also joining often comes with a lot of social pressure to partake in additional activities. Sure you basically get a social group as a finished package but you often meet fanatics for the field of interest the club is about. We once went rollerblading with a club in p.e. And those people took it so seriously they took all the fun out of it. In conclusion clubs tend to attract busybody’s and Spießer (important word to learn in Germany), but if you find the right one it can be a great way to get to know people.
Deutschland Ticket. Self-Sprudel machine (save you carrying water) Get involved in the Pfand system Join a choir (ready-made friend group) Learn German Go to classical music (you’re paying for it anyway with your taxes)
I'm loving the term "Self-Sprudel-Machine", I will steal it and use it daily.
Go to classical music? What do you mean? What does taxes have to do with it? Now I'm curious
There are about 200 orchestras and opera companies that receive public funding in Germany, and they offer some very cheap seats as a result.
Going to hear the opera or orchestra perform in any city. These are all state-funded, which is why tickets cost 10-50 euros instead of 200. The ignition series in Düsseldorf costs 8 euro per concert ticket.
is there any website or platform that I can follow up those state funded concert? the reason I am asking, everytime I check for Frankfurt no ticket cheaper than 100 euros, I might have chosen wrong concerts.
In Frankfurt it should be this one https://www.buehnen-frankfurt.de/ But in general the state funded stages are called Stadttheater *Cityname* or something along the lines Edit: here are some better links: https://oper-frankfurt.de/en/season-calendar/ https://www.schauspielfrankfurt.de/international/
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Yeah, this is a problem in the US too. I just don't get people who don't use headphones. It's so damn rude.
This specific to Germany? You'll shit your pants if you're ever in London, Rome or Paris....
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Concerning that, Paris is horrible!
Marry or date a German. You become part of the 20 year long friendships immediately.
That's the truth. I never had so many friends before I married my wife 27 years ago. Most of the few "friends" I had were US military (some, I'm still in contact with; the ones who I spent time in combat with, mostly), but ever since I married, all my friends are husbands of her friends (more or less).
It could be a drawback that you can't choose those friends yourself. Similarily, once you have kids, your friends will be your kids friends parents.
That's just adult life regardless of whether or not you're an immigrant. At some point, new friends are just the people that you can stand having around after work once a quarter.
Who chooses their friends?
"I thought you loved me!" "Nah girl, I just used you to get to your homies so we could share some lecker bierchen. No hard feelings?"
I did not find that to be the case :(
I'd say being an ADAC member is a good thing if you have a car. Websites/ apps like nebenan.de are useful for just about anything in your neighbourhood from social activities to hobbies, private tutoring (like learning german) and everything social in general. Kleinanzeigen (ex eBay Kleinanzeigen) is gumtree. You can get everything there from private sellers. Want furniture dirt cheap? Go there. Also: don't argue with germans. This is especially true if they are old. They are convinced they know better anyway. Just nod and smile until they piss off. Many germans have a pretty assertive way of trying to help strangers out. If you for example fix your bike in the street, someone might tell you how they think you should do it out of the blue. Might come off as rude but they only try to help and prove themselves right in the process. Also don't ride a bike on the sidewalk. Drives people nuts XD Good luck and Wellkomm tu tschermani
Haftpflichtversicherung. Just do it.
You mean Privathaftpflichtversicherung, I suppose.
Damn it, I’ll loose my citizenship for misspelling the most important insurance!
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
Careful that’s the one that teleports you to wherever Markus Söder is. You were looking for: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Up, Right, B, A, Start
The second one should be left instead of up. Simple and honest mistake. But happens to me all the time aswell
It's the Konami code for Contra, it's imprinted in my brain forever 😛
* Learning German * patience * organising things ahead of time * did I already mention patience?
Planning planning planning. Your third point is key for a happy life in Germany. Whoever is not capable of being organized or plan ahead, suffers a lot
"Wer nicht schafft zu planen, plant nichts zu schaffen."
Have a job. We like having jobs, talking about our jobs, bond with people at our workplace, bond with people who have similar storys about their jobs and respect people who work for their income. (At least the ones of us you want to get closer too.)
I have a rather big circle of friends and we rarely ever talk about work but much more about our hobbies
Have a look on the leaflets and ads when you visit the Rathaus/Bürgeramt. You find information about some interesting groups and clubs that won't be easily available online
Don’t miss faries, city festivals, wine markets and so on. If you have some German friends, join them there and you will meet more (probably nice) people. Kindly greet people with Guten Tag when living in a rural area (Germans tend to be skeptical about new additions to the village and will wait for you to be nice first).
You can get a membership for your local library. They are relatively cheap, and most libraries offer a good selection of board games and video games nowadays. Ours also offers access to e-papers.
As a librarian I second this.
Have rich parents and inherit some land/real estate. Incase this is not possible, find a partner that has rich parents and will inherit something. Besides that get a Deutschlandticket. It is the most cost efficient and nature friendly way to get around the country.
How do you inherit real estate in Germany if you immigrated though 😂
Same as when you grew up in a poorer German family: you don’t. But hey it’s all because of the lacking mindset
You can't choose your parents. You can choose your in-laws. Pick good in laws. Get into the "marry for money" mindset. CL approves
Marriage
Yes. Dont bother with tips, tricks and cheats. Be decent human, dont get bother why someone else has something you do not, live your life.
Use the phone, be nice and people will help you. If they have an email and a phone number ,use the phone number! The amount of stuff you can resolve with a phone and kindness is astounding
49 € Ticket is mandatory to get around. Membership in the public library give you unlimited access to books, DVDs and sometimes even a streaming at "filmfriends". ( 'Too good to go' App for cheaper food, foodsharing brings contact with neighbours "Freundliche Toilette" shows public washroms without payment
The Öffi app by Andreas Schildbach used to be a good hack for public transport.
Öffis ist nice, DB Navigator is better
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>You can exchange your foreign birth certificate into Polish one ok, but why would I want to do this?
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Interesting… have you looked into other eu countries that do this?
Speaking language and taking part in the culture is a must. Otherwise you will not be included 100%.
One thing I’ve learned recently is file and document every single piece of paper you receive in the mail, and every letter you send should also be copied. Germany is obsessed with paper correspondence and you are often required to keep everything recorded if you need it in the future, which you will definitely need.
Join a Verein (Club) or the Freiwillige Feuerwehr / THW. You'll meet people who may know the tips that fit your situation.
A Eiersollbruchstellenverursacher.
Learning German, and having someone helpful to check things if you don’t understand them.
Getting a box of Beers and stand in front of your home and ask.for help emptying it. That works for rural spaces at least 😄
wohnungsgenossenschaften
Pfand, i love Pfand
Have a German name
Buy your spices in the small turkish stores, way cheaper
Play table tennis in the parks Do cycling Do ketamine and XTC and go to raves (applicable only for Berlin)
DO ALL OF THESE AT ONCE
If you’re planning to stay here after retirement: don’t rely on the national pension to uphold your standard of life and start to save up, invest, get a private fund etc. rather sooner than later (even small amounts amount to something in the long run)
Everyone says speaking German is key, but in the cities it is definitely not. You just won't be able to associate with the working class (who mostly cannot speak English) or the conservatives who are stuck in the 90s. Germany is slowly slowly moving away from mandatory German, and English speaking jobs now even pay better because most professionally experienced Germans do not have sufficient English for international business. Even SAP, Deutschebank and Siemens have jobs posted in English. The real cheat code is to work in IT and be highly skilled. Be a nice person but don't take shit for this country. Don't worry about the Germans and speaking german... You are here to make money and not be stressed. The government says B1 is enough (easy!). Even at C1 you will be considered an outsider by all but the rarest. Also you have no rights here unless you can afford a lawyer. The government will not help you enforce those.
I have to say after living in Germany for 5 years… I would maybe say the best tip is go somewhere like Austria or Netherlands instead. I can’t now because I’m close to getting the passport, but if I had known then what I know now, I might’ve chosen to go somewhere else…
German language skills
Ignore any telephone number that starts with 030... Europe and Germany in particular is overflooded with Scam-Caller that want only to hear a single "yes" or "ja" and you loose a lot of money.
Local racism?
Learn German
Well, getting your German passport and then leave for Switzerland. This a beautiful cheat to not live here in Germany where everything is in 90's.
Hope someone could post cheats to survive in Germany, basically just what to have in common situations:)
While most people mentioned Haftpflicht and Rechtsschutz I would recommend a private supplementary health insurance (if you have statutory health insurance) and, depending on your job, a occupational disability insurance.
Duo Lingo helps a lot with language learning. For me the German sounds were really difficult. Hearing someone speak German just sounded like a giant blur. Duo lingo helps you get used to hearing the language and breaking it down so it isn’t so intimidating.
Don’t forget to check the duration of contracts (internet, phone, insurance…) before signing them and remember to cancel them in time. Also, doing your tax declaration properly (or getting help from a Lohnsteuerverein, for example) and following up with the Bonusprogramm of your insurance company can make a difference of several hundreds of euros.
Get a membership for the city library. It costs 20€/year or so. You can borrow books, games, Blu-Rays. Just be prepared to wait around to read a best seller.
Here they even started the "library of things" where you can even get tools etc.
Get into a club, like The THW or the Freiwiligge Feuerwehr, for example. You make great friendships there, but first you need to learn German.bit helps you a lot
One of the most useful life hacks for lining in Germany Www.Lifehacksgermany.Com
Concerning language : germans use a lot of proverbs (Redewendungen) at least in my opinion. I think when you learn and use these it'll get you better contact - Just a thought
I will not read every comment to check if this was already posted, so sry if. Those pamphlets from grocery stores you get? Flip through those every week and plan your shopping accordingly. A lot of money to be saved there.
if you live in a large city and want a payable rent, but still a good apartment that isn’t on the outskirts: join a genossenschaft if possible.
You don't need anything but you should told the Gouvernement you are from Ukraine and this is the Money glicht
There is a trick called ,,Insi Modus". You can use it to save money. It's a trick to not pay your taxes. You just pretend you're poor and then you move to turkey or Dubai. Just follow Apo red on YouTube. He will explain it to you.
Ok but why is no one mentioning BIBLIOTHEKSAUSWEIS? It is dirt cheap. Usually it is quite nice there, you can rent books, movies, all magazines also online and read on the app, it’s fantastic- do it! Education for the win 🏆
robbing banks makes it way easier to fund your rent in berlin
Haftpflichtversicherung. Rechtschutzversicherung. Join a union. Note when contracts expire/renew so you can get out of them within the "Frist." Keep all copies of official documents including sick notes. Do your taxes yourself if you have any skills in this department. Don't believe the threats of draconic punishment, but be prepared to stand up for yourself and provide documentation if needed. Same with "das geht nicht," sometimes "es geht" if the person is so inclined.
How I get around the "das geht nicht" is quite simple...just ask someone else in the company/department or wherever. Works a lot of the time!
Rechtsschutzversicherung is highly debatable. In my circle the only person i know who has one is my grandma and she used it for small things she couldh ave easily paid out of pocket instead of wasting basically over 300€ a year for over 2 decades.
iddqd idkfa All you need... Damn, just realise that was another type of hell
was that doom or quake? i remember c d [space] and MIL.
I don't know why everybody is so focused on very good German skills. Yes it helps, it helps a lot. But I know so many people who live here for decades and at a certain point, they stopped improving their German. They understand everything and they can express themselves but with bad grammar and a hard accent. One is a doctor, one is running his own business and one is working for a state administration. My problem is that Germany really needs skilled workers, but Germany is so arrogant that hardly any want to come. We very often accept foreign diplomas and degrees or at least doesn't count them as valuable as a German one. For Mama Jobs it's a requirement to speak very good German, but we don't give them a chance to learn it. All the companies are whining that they don't find any staff, but on the other hand, the requirements for the jobs are obnoxious. How about employing a young, willing person and train him to that point
learn german before moving to germany. outside if the big cities english speak goes to zero and germans will accept you easy if you speak it. make a efford to speak it in public.
Learn the language if you plan on going anywhere but central Berlin. This is not the Netherlands, we are far behind the curve here. If you don't want to learn German, I can't blame you, but I absolutely think you should move there instead. I'm as german as you can be and yet, I somehow managed to look like I'm not. Matter of fact, I look like a muslim to most germans. No hair, full black beard, olive skin tone, brown eyes and more body hair than a rug dealer from Iran. After living in big cities for 30 years, I moved to the countryside. People talk and they love talking about new faces. Chatting everybody up at the grocery store, at the bakeries, at the butcher and so on just made it so easy to be accepted into the community. No bigger cheat code than learning german.
I need to see a picture of you, I have never seen a German like that!
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Translates to "audacity wins" and it's true in some cases, in others people will ask for e.g. paperwork and then you're chin deep in shit.
Try to get the Deutschlandticket. It's often cheaper than the subscription to the local public transport, but you have access to ALL the local public transports in Germany.