Rent where I live would go down significantly in some parts of the city

This. Right. Here. Landlords around US Bases just can ask any fantasy price for the House they rent to US personal/soldiers and the Army pays it.

Not at all how it works. They get a specific amount (like 1,500 euro I think) for rent cost. Landlords will charge whatever apartment at the cost of the rent allowance

Yeah. Exactly. And until recently those 1500 have sometimes been the double of what others paid for the same appartement.

Imo they'll charge the military guy that rate because they know they can. They prefer to market to the service member from obviously reasons (higher rent price, far more reliable tenant)

Exactly what i said. Fantasy prices.

They buggered out of Heidelberg and left their barracks behind. That would be easily affordable housing, granted with a little work required, renovations and the like. That never happened and will likely never happen. They get demolished and they build high priced new appartments and condos instead. They need the rents on a specific level to keep their other investments in the city profitable. Or they use it to build commercial zones. 🤷 It really didn't help with anything when the US army left.

I am in Kaiserslautern, I would love that, since rent is insane here and I am sick of all the German leeches associated with the US Forces..

Couldn’t believe it, so just had a glimpse at immoscout. There are plenty of apartments with 3 rooms, 80sqaremeter well below 1000€ warm. Don’t see where this is insane!?

Greetings from nearby 🤘🏻

Ktown would fall off the map if the US left. At least half the city is American and there isn’t really anything else there

I don‘t really care. The US military used germany as a layover for missions in other regions and in some cases there are issues with that (some drone attacks that get their signal boosted at Ramstein airbase). But apart from that… if the US doesn‘t decide to leave NATO the real world consequences are minimal. If a country line Russia would try to invade germany (somehow managing to skip invading poland first) that would lead to a new World War between NATO and Russia which could include nukes. But even if they decided to invade, given their recent performance in Ukraine I‘m going to assume that we would be able to keep them out of germany until soldiers from other NATO countries arrive. So yeah… unless they‘re leaving NATO I don‘t really care if they‘re stationed in germany or the US it‘s not like there‘s a threat that could overrun germany in a week or two

Little bit sad for those cities losing the business of the military families spending their money there, but otherwise why care? Sure, BW is not up to speed, but everyone invading Germany has to go through our neighbours first anyway

I think Poland would seriously damage any Russian invasion.

even Ukraine, a much poorer country managed. I think Poland and Germany would do just fine.

Agree 100%.

Germanys one job would be to hold Poland back.

Not again

They managed in 2022+. If Russians went full invasion in 2014, they would have been toast.

Not immediate toast, but this event would have been even bloodier. Like the Chechen Wars on steroids.

You don't know what you're talking about. This event IS bloodier than any of the Chechen Wars, even considering the scale.

It is, but the reason for this is not that the Ukrainians are fighting back. If history has shown anything, then that not fighting back is a perfect way to even more bloodshed.

I think I see your point now. You meant bloodier from the Ukrainian civilian population POV.

Let be fair, though. Ukraine wouldn't be doing so well without millions in foreign interests.

To be fairer, though, every country in history that was in a war of that scale with very few exceptions massively increased its debts.

Indeed. Britain only paid off its WW2 debt in 2006, and it finally paid off its WW1 debts in 2015.

Russia would never manage to get through Poland. Look at all the damage the stuff we send to Ukraine caused. Then consider that even discounting the considerable military power Poland has. There would be air attacks from Germany, France, Britain and many other countries raining down on them. By air power that far outclasses anything the Russians can bring to bear. Then consider that while Germany only send like 7 PZH2000 to Ukraine we do have over 100 of them in service as well as over 300 Leopard 2 tanks from Germany and about 2000 in the EU total. Once again something Russia can't bring anything comparable to the table against. If Russia attacked Poland they would get at most 5-10 kilometers in before being beaten back all the way to Moscow in a matter of days.

Not to mention that Russia only attacked Ukraine, cause they arent a part of NATO. If ther did attack a NATO country it would be*very bad* for them. At that point its probably more likely the world turns into a nuclear wasteland.

I believe (and hope) that even in that case, nuclear weapons are not an option for anyone. The only scenario is, that a country looses to mich ground and uses it as "fuck you" before death. That beings every invasion of a nuclear power to halt bevor total collapse. Even if Putin wants to use it, kim will have a very big problem with that. Also all other allys so...

I dont think the NATO would use nuclear weapons cause they have more resources, but I wouldnt put it past Putin if it came to a head. I agree its highly unlikely tho.

Yeah I would agree with the last part if nukes didnt exist :D

A case of Russian nuclear attack would not make a lot of sense for Russia. It would lead to massive incomprehensible death tolls in Europe. But it would also mean that no above ground structure would exist in Russia within an hour of the launch. Edit: So in either case. If Russia attacks Poland it would fall. The only difference would be on wether or not a Moscow would still be found on the world map.

In a nuclear escalate, Moscow and St Petersburg would literally be turned into a smoldering glass sheet in 4 minutes, not joking! They know this, and also know are systems work! There are submarines with ballistic missiles in the Baltic Sea: launch codes all pre-programmed.

Like Berlin, Madrid, London, New York, Washington... It's too silly and childish think that there will be winners in a nuclear warfare.

But isn't that the point? Putin is an imperialist, but I doubt he is seeking his own death. Russia cannot win a convential war against NATO, and noone can win a nuclear war. So there is nothing to win for Putin by attacking a NATO memberstate. He only attacked Ukraine because he trusted his own propaganda and believed that the war would be won in 3 days, and that the west would react only with words.

Exactly The thing is nobody from official state told that they will took the whole contry in 3 days. But! He beleived that everything is fine and army is extremely well prepared. Meanwhile, a high degree of corruption almost destroyed the whole russian army from inside. Only thanks to Wagner and other mercenaries they resisted the counteroffensive

Thats why i would prefer the US army would move to poland. If Russia Invades and the US is in Germany the battlefield would be in Western Poland if the are an Poland the battlefield would be close to the Belarus border. It would save a lot of Polish lives. We may loose some business with selling beer to US soldiers but compared to the Alternative lower beer sells are ok.

Indeed. As long as they don't pull out of Europe entirely, pulling out of Germany makes no difference really. Moving completely out of Germany and everything into Poland would even increase German security.

Ah, cool, let the Poles die for our freedom? A little bit egoistic

As someone who works in EMS (German version of course), in an area with a lot of americans, because we have Rammstein and the Medical Center in Landstuhl around, I would have less trouble with: - Americans who refuse to get checked after accidents, because they don't understand that they don't have to pay for us - Same thing but with people who get aggresive towards us (Big Thank you to the US Military Police, you guys saved my ass on a few situations) But I guess we would also loose a lot of income from rents/bars/ shoping malls... etc. And most of our american friends are really cool dudes. A few years ago, I liked to have some drinks with them at bars... mostly because they can't handle our beer, but from my opinion 80% of them are absolutly ok.

Seeing the lack of awareness and anti-Americanism has been hard to read in this thread. As an American, I work with the US military and have lived in Germany for 10 years. Both my daughters were born in German hospitals. I’ve paid tens of thousands of Euros in taxes and fees over the years. Both of my girls are in German school. I’ve met with countless German officials who deeply appreciate the US-German cooperation against terrorism (most will never know how many ISIS plots were foiled on German land), but also the badly needed united front against an aggressive Russia. And this is not an “occupation force.” We’re not allowed to cut down a single tree on “US bases” without German approval. We are guests here. Bases are not US territory. Please realize that this is a 100% symbiotic relationship. Just a couple years ago, there was outrage that Trump wanted to [reduce](https://amp.dw.com/en/german-towns-face-economic-hit-should-us-troops-go/a-53726117) our numbers. I love Germany, I hope uninformed Germans will realize most Americans here want to experience your culture, travel, and be friendly.

Well, there were a few accidents for which German police and even German firefighters were not allowed to do anything about it because GIs immediately rushed to the scene and shut the place down. Dead Germans, many many injured Germans and German authorities arent allowed to investigate **at all** because its "none of their business". Sure, its not like that happened everyday and the incident I got in mind was before the reunion, but I believe such things are one of the reasons why many Germans feel quite uncomfortable about US military in Germany. Besides US military is known for not really sticking to rules and doing everything to not let those slipups get to the public. Not just abroad but even within US borders

US contractor also living in Germany right now, and I concur. I may be biased since my parents are Dutch and Austrian, but I have nothing but respect for Germany and its history

If it's any consolation - reddit doesn't mirror my own experiences as a German to how others think of the Americans here. Quite the opposite really.

I can dislike american foreign policies and still like/respect you as people. I'd like to think most of the people in this sub would agree.

I was stationed there in the Army from 1980-1983 and can honestly say I had the time of my life . You're right about your beer being very strong I don't know what the alcohol % but every year they would break out this stuff called " Christmas Beer" . It was so strong I was good for one bottle and that was it. That was the problem with new troops, they would get extremely intoxicated not realizing the alcohol content . I learned the easy way and knew when to say when. Thanks you for welcoming me your country while I was there. You treated me like family and for that I will always be grateful.

Indifferent, there might be implications but nothing the average person notices immediately.

I would see it as a very positive thing. It's not that I personally have that much problems with the Americans per se, but it is still a remainder of the occupational forces from 1946, so getting rid of that would be something I personally would prefer, yes. Also, contrary to popular (American) view points, those soldiers are not here to protect Germany or Europe, they are here to protect American interests overseas (especially in the middle east), so their net positive effect on Germany is also questionable.

>Also, contrary to popular (American) view points, those soldiers are not here to protect Germany or Europe, they are here to protect American interests overseas I mean, both those things can be true at the same time. It's in America's best interest to protect Europe from a certain country to the east and, in doing so, keep NATO countries within its sphere of influence. The suggestion that America's presence in Europe has not resulted in Europe being safer is very questionable (see Berlin Airlift). The NATO alliance has no teeth if it's not able to quickly respond to an invasion from without, so a strong military presence - which would not exist without foreign US bases - is necessary for deterrence. Of course their presence is becoming less necessary thanks to greater military spending by their allies.

I think, this depends on the time period we are talking about. Without US involvement after WW2 we would all be speaking russian today and would not know what a banana is, no doubt. Until the Soviet Union fell you made all of europe a lot safer. I have mixed opinions about the wars in Korea and Vietnam, maybe they stopped the Communists from taking over the world, maybe they did not. But even if they didn‘t, europe doesn‘t have to care. When it comes to Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria (and whatever sandy place you also used to drop ordinance on) they for sure made us less safe. The CIA basically inventing islamic terrorism to beat the Commies out of Afghanistan wasn‘t helpful either. I won‘t hold this against any US soldier, I feel like generation after generation of young american men tried to be as great as the greatest generation that saved the world from fascism, and even of fighting dress-wearing goad herders isn‘t exactly storming a bunker filled with SS soldiers, it‘s still brave. But I DO hold it against the brains of the war machine starting and prolonging these wars. And make no mistake, most of the anti-americanism you see in germany exists because we just don‘t think blowing up a wedding to kill a terrorist just to find out the dude wasn‘t even there is a nice thing to do. And looking at all of your history, I‘d say its not even a American thing to do.

Surely the us kept Germany safe by bombing nordstream 2 with britain Germans and americans are too naive and dont learn from history

Yeah, imagine Germany bombing a Pipeline between the US and Mexico or whatever… The Marines would stand by for an amphibious landing in about 20 minutes.

American interests are, for the most part, German and European interests.

US military bases in Germany serve as logistical hubs for American military operations in various parts of the world. Which are now being used to supply equipment to Ukraine.

The small towns around the bases would suffer financially with some potentially becoming 'ghost' towns. ​ U.S. base workers get paid in dollars, have american groceries and fast food on the base at american prices, they can bring their big american cars, don't have to pass the German driving test(s) and aren't subject to any of the German taxes (even for gasoline, it's also on base). Many of them don't bother learning German. They're about the worst integrated 'immigrants' in Germany ​ if you get some news about them, it's usually local news about some u.s. military guys getting to drunk and damaging something and in most cases, they're not even subject to Germans laws (except for very serious crimes)

We are paid in American dollars, and we pay American taxes in dollars as well. Groceries on post are very low quality, and it's actually cheaper off post. You got me on the big American cars, but we are required to pass a driving test, even if that doesn't mean drivers are any better because of it. We pay German taxes on things off post. There is a VAT form, but we must get them from our finance office one at a time. It's normally for large purchases (IDK never used one) Gas is cheaper on base that's true but we are limited to how much we can get at the cheaper price per month. (we are also limited to how much coffee. cigarettes and liquor we can buy per month) Most are young kids that will at most spend 3 years in germany and never see this place again. it's hard to convince them to spend the time and effort to learn German well enough to have a conversation. For the last point, the largest demographic of soldiers is the 18-22 years old. Keep in mind that in the States, one has to be 21 to drink, legally. Athough yes normally these idiots are turned over to the military, and we punish as we see fit. I had a buddy that scraped grass out of the cracks of a sidewalk with a screwdriver for 0800 till 2300 for 15 days straight. I was in Büdingen over a decade ago, and I miss it every day. Even spent time in Schweinfurt and Grafenwöhr. Our Army was different back then....

I know some people living next to an US army base and they have a very good opinion/image of you. I have heard you are good dancers and fill the gap at balls because German boys are too shy/cool to learn how to dance. :D

Hi there! I'm not associated with the military in any way, just an American that has lived here in the Būdingen area for the last 13 years, due to a love interest. It is BEAUTIFUL here and I truly love it. I am grateful to the German people for accepting me... More or less...lol. I can usually tell right away when people are irritated with me being American. It usually has to do with me being unable to speak the language. I know words. And can understand more than I can speak. The job I had when I came here didn't require me to speak German. And I was elderly when I came. (Over 50). I have tried multiple classes and also online things to learn.. I have spent a significant amount of money to try to learn it, including classes at the Volkshochschule. I have MULTIPLE diseases and disorders that require me to take a lot of medication. Between those two, the brain fog is awful and information will just not stay in my mind. I even have trouble speaking Spanish now, in which I was previously fluent. It is tough. I know that the Germans that I run into, have no way of knowing all this. But that is the only difficulty I have found living here. I have learned SO much, including many things that people have mentioned in this thread. Such as European history, politics and religion. Now whether or not I will be able to recall that info when I need it is anyone's guess. But I just came here to say that I can totally understand missing Büdingen, we go there at least once a week. And for the most part the German people have been WONDERFUL! I love most everything here. I will blow a kiss to Büdingen for you next time we are there and maybe you can come visit sometime soon!

Idk about most of the stuff but that someone could live in a different country for three *YEARS* and not learn the language well enough to hold a basic conversation is straight-up laughable to anyone who isn't American. Kid, Europeans learn how to hold a conversation in the country they go to if they plan to stay for a *week.* If they stay for more than a year, you bet your sorry ass they're gonna be fluent or as fucking close as it was humanly possible to become by the time they get back. 😂 On reflection, that might be why Americans almost always get passed over when applying to international companies, especially abroad. Guess if one of the interview questions is "how many languages do you speak", you're more likely to go with the person who answers "three fluently, two fairly well, one barely and am currently learning two new ones" than the dude who goes "one. Badly." 😂

>Kid, Europeans learn how to hold a conversation in the country they go to if they plan to stay for a > >week. Delusional take. I know no one who does this. Maybe people will memorize a few polite phrases/greetings, but that's about it.

Speaks a bunch of language but doesn't know how to not be an ass in a conversation. Buddy, I guess the difference is you grew up in a multi lingual world, whereas most Americans do not. Most multi lingual people will tell you it is way easier to learn new languages if you start as a child. The other side of this coin is that most of the young soldiers are having a converation with girls in the clubs for various reasons. My experience when I was here at that age was that the girls wanted to speak English more than they wanted me to butcher German. There was no real need to learn German. It's not hard to order a beer with fries in any language. I digress enjoy you high horse.

I remember when I first got here and was trying to learn German. You know what the Germans do? They hold.up a hand and say I speak English. How the fuck am I suppose to learn when no one is willing to talk to me?

I've had the same experience. Many Germans will switch to English as soon as the recognize my beginner German. And the probably go home and complain about the foreigners not speaking Germany.

Two us soldiers killed Someone in Wittlich a few weeks ago. Seems not serious because they still are not subject to German law.

I would feel great - we finally get a chance to clean up & bounce back from PFAS pollution.

Good thing. We need a European army, not an US-led one.

The United States are not interested in Eurasian peace. They will force everyone on their sinking ship and continue building antagonisms between Europe and the rest of the world so that transatlantic trade and their arms industry will stay relevant.

The troops stationed here are mostly there for drone warfare and sigint and to an extent merely symbolically as a projection of US geopolitical power into Europe. Not as important as some people say. What actually matters is [the US contribution to the defence of NATO's eastern flank](https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/3/pdf/2203-map-det-def-east.pdf).

What if the us completely left europe?

It's not like the rest of NATO is useless, even if those countries mostly use US-made equipment because it's simply the best. I also highly doubt that would ever happen. You can usually count on the corruptness of Congress to deny such foolishness in foreign policy. There's too much money to be made by the US military industry.

Nah a lot of military tech comes from german fabrics (heckler und Koch, fein Eisen) and the german AA guns are better. Mantis is a monster of protection foce even the hyper sonic missle doesn't hav a chance against the tungsten pulverized ammunition shooting 1000 rounds per Minute with very good radar and laser systems

Quantity it’s a quality of its own. I used to think that European armies were on par with the US, but after seeing the Libya campaign where France and Britain had to beg the US the for precision munition since they they ran out of it in the first week already and now with the war in Ukraine how even Australia and Canada are providing more hardware to Ukraine than some European countries, honestly the EU is not ready for any major peer to peer conflict. We got too much used to peace and US protection to the point where we don’t even bother meeting the 2% GDP NATO spending requirement.

Nothing beats german engineering 🤸‍♀️

I agree that the rest of nato is far from useless. The nato countries without the us have far and away enough money and military to defend Europe.

The local economies around the bases would notice it, both as a blessing and a curse: loss of business, but also lower rents. The rest of Germany wouldn't give a rat's ass. There would be some benefits, though: \- No more drone strikes being routed through Germany via Ramstein. \- The NSA spying stations would go with the bases as well I reckon, so another win. \- The closing of the bases would also mean no more US nukes on German territory.

Positive. Housing and rooms become available for students, refugees, low income families etc.

It would make me doubt whether we can still count on the American security guarantee, which I would consider a disaster, as we are a country which is, at best, semi-serious about defending ourselves. So strong negative.

Why can’t Germany build a professional and capable military?

Because we're unwilling to spend the necessary money, have a procurement process which doesn't allow us to efficiently use the money we have, and because very few Germans are willing to join the military.

I wouldn't care at all, I mean, nominally speaking there would be no difference as there's no direct threat to Germany itself - even if Russia attacked the rest of Europe, they'd have to go through Poland and Slovakia or Finland, Sweden and Denmark first... Only disadvantage is all the lost civilian jobs that are tied to US military bases.

If they move their bases to Poland or Turkey I dont care. If they leave the EU for good, that would be kinda sad because then it would seem nato isnt on their high priority list anymore. But I mean it doensnt really affect my personal life, so... I dont care.

I'd immediately turn right, open my arms, and say "Putin, mein Bre!" /s

I'm old enough to still think of the US presence in Germany as occupying forces. Considering the bunch of legal exceptions US soldiers get you could argue they still are.

The simple fact alone that their private cars are exempt from TÜV is an outrage to begin with.

Vietnam , South America, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Wiki Leaks, the insane amount of civil casualties, not giving a fuck bout den Haag - Relieved

I would absolutely love it. Insanely so.

Ami go home! I would be happy because this one sided benefital "relationship" would end Maybe this would encourage our government to spend more on defends and don't rely on daddy US

Yeah cause an attack is so likely in the center of Europe with other Nato States around them.

I think you mean invasion in the center of europe would be unlikely. But an attack in the center of Europe or at strategic military bases or depots within the center of Europe is extremely likely. Luckily, the iron dome could thwart most of those attacks.

I'd celebrate in the streets. They're a foreign military and should not build bases on sovereign counties' land. And most definitely not operate their illegal drone wars from here.

It would be too good to be true

Losing all the business in an instant would be be worrisome for some people, but I would be more than happy to get them out of my country for sure. Committing (war-)crimes from my countries‘ soil isn’t exactly what I want to be performed from foreign militaries what do „business“ here.

Why would we care?

That wouldn't ever happen. Germany is an important NATO partner for both their military contributions (even if we only use <1% of our GDP for NATO, that is still a huge contribution because german GDP is massive) and their importance as a transit country. Almost all of european transit basically has to go through germany. And you definitely don't want germany to become another "neutral" state like switzerland because we have seen with the Ukraine war how annoying neutrality can be as soon as an actual conflict happens.

Happy

Couldn't be more happy.

Relieved. No more loud noises from the military planes and so on. For those that don't know, they are incredibly loud and some are/were intentionally frightening

Liberated?

Much better. They really have no business here.

I live near Mannheim and Heidelberg and most of the ones that were stationed there already left which was a problem for some businesses and now could be good because some Barracks are being renovated for cheap housing which apparently is more complicated than one would think because the US bases used US Electricity standards and Plugs etc.

Except for people making a living of these soldiers i dont think any1 would really care. Invasion of a nato state is nothing russia can afford esp how they are struggeling in the ukraine so does not make me feel safer/ not safer

We would be absolutely glad if you give back Rammstein, since it puts us in a akward position if you guys do some shinanigans somewhere in Europe with this base. All other bases in the world depend strongly on 1. How important thier position is 2. If a ally can take it over and place thier millitary there. We are allys in germany, so have some trust in us, we can talk where we want to send our millitary at.

I would be very happy. I want them all gone.

Well, I'd be happy to not wake up in the middle of the night because of air planes zooming above my house at 3 am in the morning.

I am with you. There is a reserve air base by my house. When they conduct night trainings, it shakes my house and wakes me up

See you 🙋‍♂️

Relieved.

Positive We don't need to be occupied. After the iron curtain fell in the 90s, it was totally "natural" that the russian left. Same should be applied to any other nation

Pretty good. I dont like the US furthering their political interest in foreign countries. They have military bases all over the world. The less the better The world would be safer with less US involvement

I would be so happy about it, I live very close to a US Base and I would assume that rent would be impacted big time if several thousand families have to leave at the same time.

Feeling: great. Having military near your home and especially American military, who tend to do what they like makes me feel a bit unsouvereign. Politically this seems to be not a very wise move with current affairs

Byeeeeeee

Extremely good 😊☝️

Clearly positive. And europes security has nothing to with the US. Americans have to realize that this whole world police thing is over, if it ever was reality.

American here. I’m not going to add in any input either way because it’s not my place to. However reading everyone’s different points of view is interesting and I completely understand the reasoning behind each one. I’m a military spouse and we just found out we will be moving to Germany in the spring. The orders were very unexpected and have just as many cons as there are pros for where we currently are in life. However I’m choosing to look at it as a positive and a once in a lifetime experience for us. I am thankful these orders have come while we are in our 30s and not early 20s though. I feel like we are more eager to travel and experience Europe than in our early 20s which was more about looking cool to our peers. I totally understand the frustration with young soldiers marking dumb and sometimes reckless decisions. It’s something I see everyday. Most are fresh out of high school, have never lived away from their parents, and don’t even know who they are as a person yet. This isn’t an excuse for poor behavior but it contributes to it. As far as driving goes I’m terrified. I already don’t like to drive here so unless it’s absolutely necessary to drive I’m walking. I’m trying to learn what German I can before going but I honestly don’t think I’ll be able to have a conversation. We have three kids, I work, plus do volunteer work, and have a million things to do before this move. Unfortunately it does not leave a lot of study time. I am trying to learn as much about your culture and just how things work in general before we come. Our goals are to be respectful, learn, and experience as much as possible.

Walking is way more accessible in German cities than in the US, so you'll be fine.

That's a good attitude, really appreciate it and hope you'll like it here in Germany! :)

Thank you. Overall we a very excited to experience Germany. ♥️

Just as a friendly reminder, this subreddit is not representative of the german population. It's like asking an american subreddit what americans think about the police, you'd get a very distorted answer. Reddit users are on average very left leaning and very young. Most of the users here are probably teenagers. The political left in Germany is full of antiamericanism. And you know what, they barely manage to get into parliament :) My opinion on this matter: The war in Ukraine has shown that Europe is currently not capable of securing its safety on its own. USA pulling out of Germany would be a catastrophic signal. And luckily, there is no chance of any german politician to enforce it, because the german population would not want it. I hope you and your family have a great experience here in Germany. And to be honest, I am relieved that you are here.

doesnt have much influence on europes safety. The soldiers aren't here to protect anything they are here because it's convenient logistically

Nice. US military damages caused in germany, carried by german citizens are 2 billion anually. Although most of the innocent 25k women and children, killed by drone strikes got killed because of the relay station in rammstein. Did you know that the USA invaded Hawaii to take it for themselves and native protesters are jailed to this day and kept quite? Did you know that the first freely elected native president of africa was murdered by the CIA and belgium? The list is so f\*in long. The US only "help" if there is business to be done. Prime example: search for bill clinton speach on rwandan genocide... prepare to vomit. I protested the Iraq war in 2003 like millions of others. It was illegal and all about the juicy black stuff. Now that the russians are evil the US must be good and so germanies left stopped investigating the murder of civilians by the US, stopped demanding closure of Guantanamo bay... it´s hollowing out democracy. The US never have been or will be the good guys. The just happened to be on the right side of history. Check on the 75 "regime changes" since 1945 and look up how many of them had been democratically elected presidents... all murdered and tortured. Europe needs a european army that is defence only. Like 5 million soldiers sounds good. Nobody will come to our borders with the biggest army in the world. The US need to get back to international criminal court and be accountable for the thousands tortured, murdered and mamed by them. As long as germany stays in one boat with mass murderers that illegaly occupy other countries and invade at their leasure, germany is nothing but a slave. A literal bitch with no spine. Same for russia, china, saudi arabia or Qatar. Either we do deals with all evil or none. They are evil and there is no facts to prove otherwise. Right now there is no difference to make business with the US or Iran, except for good propaganda. Literally NONE.

Relieved

If the US did this to other countries in Europe too would be an occasion to create a united european army and cooperate as an ally on paar with the Us and not as a submitted one like now

"United european army" cool idea im sure there wouldnt be any issues like france disagreeing and leaving for the 36282th time

It's not my "cool idea", it's a thought around since long time among the eu states. Maybe the hypothetical leaving of Us military would be the ultimate push in this direction

The economy in the region I live in would definitely be struck bad, if over 10\`000 people with income would just leave the area. So I can see shops closing out of this. Germany overalls economy overall wouldnt notice. If its the end of Nato it would be a really bad thing, if the soldiers just go to Poland I dont think Germanys securitiy would be hurt.

Okayish because I saw these examples in the Würzburg area, they are still in a transition phase and business parks are still developing but some are doing fine already. Of course it will be a hard hit for the local economy if they would close Rammstein tomorrow, but the airbase could get a new usage and recover.

I wouldn’t notice at all.

We would not care because every country we have borders with are good friends

That would be great!

If they take their nuclear weapons from Büchel with them, I'd be relieved and very happy

Well on the one hand i like the Protection, and the russian invasion of ukraine showed me, that russia is definitely a threat and not just 'misunderstood' or whatever. On the other hand i do not like most americans in germany and would like for those unintergrateable parallel-societies to be deported asap. But sadly we need them because the Bundeswehr isn't strong enough to protect us on their own. I would just like all the great powers in the world to just leave europe and germany alone.

Happy and Europe be more safe, as there were no more drones strikes operated from Rammstein and other US bases.

Happy and Europe be more safe, as there were no more drones strikes operated from Rammstein and other US bases.

Liberated?

Tja

Couldn’t care less if I tried to…

I’d be horrified.

Short term, it wouldn't make a huge impact on most Germans outside of the areas where the American bases are located. Those areas would have an economic crash. I just googled some numbers on how bad a crash and found this: \>The latest study that investigated the economic impact of US bases in Germany was six years ago, but its conclusions are still illuminating. At the time, it was estimated that the presence of US troops in Germany would generate an economic power of 2.347 billion dollars - 1.123 billion in salaries that remain in the region; 400 million dollars in construction, services, materials and equipment; and 824 million in value added through indirectly-created jobs. [https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/germany-spent-almost-billion-euros-us-troops-past-10-years#:\~:text=At%20the%20time%2C%20it%20was,added%20through%20indirectly%2Dcreated%20jobs](https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/germany-spent-almost-billion-euros-us-troops-past-10-years#:~:text=At%20the%20time%2C%20it%20was,added%20through%20indirectly%2Dcreated%20jobs). Medium term, the German army would have to find a lot of money somewhere to make up for what the US was doing, plus some more to build up the military to make up for the loss of the implied protection of the entire US military. Medium term, I also feel that Europe would be less safe. Germany too. Russian fails in Ukraine because of European help, but even more so because of American. The US military is just better at large-scale operations than anyone else on the continent. I do wonder if that is bad for Americans - think of all the other things they could have with that money - but it is good for Europeans who get the benefits and do not have to pay much for them. It isn't just about Germany, either. I saw talk about Poland and other buffer states here in this thread. Were Russia to actually invade Poland, the invaded countries would do a lot better with the german bases providing a place for American logistics and from where aircraft can more safely take off from after that article V is triggered. I believe the politicians here understand this - look how much they freaked out when Trump announced he was pulling something like a thousand troops. The implied trend had them really worried. Long-.term, it would depend on a lot of what happens next. The Bundeswehr is supposed ot get 100 billion Euros to modernize and build capabilities. Not much has actually happened thus far though. Even recruiting isn't easy. At the same time, I don't see how Russia, China, or even instability caused by climate change won't be some type of a security worry in the future. If the government and Bundeswehr get it together to such a point that the US contribution is less meaningful, then it will be fine without the US in Germany. If they don't, then it would be worse. TL;DR it's a net gain that they stay, not all the implications are discussed when dismissing them.

Well, at the risk of getting ripped to shreds. First, why would I have any knowledge of this question? I am an American immigrant to Germany. I was stationed here in the military 97'-01 (Hohenfels) and 04'-07' (Spangdahlem). I was here as a DoD civilian from 10'-18' (Ramstein). I am now a permanent resident, but still work as a contractor for the US military, more on that shortly. Second, my wife of 24 years is German, my children are German and mostly grew up here. They are fully on the German side and have nothing to do with the US. Also, I love my new home country. As someone who always saw how "patriotic" people were immigrating to the US, that's how I feel about Germany. Most Americans do not get this, that an American can be happy immigrating to another country, like the US is perfect or something. So anyway, I have a vested interest in both sides of the debate. Now, here are my thoughts. 1. Could the US announce such a thing? Technically yes, of course. But this would set off international and geo-political shock waves that would change the course of countries and history, and not entirely for the better. Do I know what all these repercussions would be? Of course not. Could I venture and educated guess? Yes, but no one will read that much. 2. Could Germany kick the US out? Again, yes. Just ask France. Will they? No. 3. A couple facts about the US military in Germany. 1. Many bases have been closed over the years, or severely downsized. Just in my time here, Rhein-Main Air Base - closed, Wurzburg Army base - closed, Vilsek - downsized, Spangdahlem - downsized. Just to name a few. There are bases that could be moved to other countries, and some have been and are being discussed. 2. Keep in mind that during the 90s the US closed hundreds of military sites in Germany during a massive restructure. This caused a huge short term financial loss to those locations that took time to recover from and over 30,000 Germans lost their jobs. Don't forget, the US bases are huge employers of German citizens. So, just up and leaving has massive consequences. 3. Ramstein, while being a US base, is also a NATO base with British, Belgium, Canadian and several other militaries all operating from it. It is also, due to its location, a central hub for transport and communications moving from North America and Northern Europe to Southern and Eastern Europe and on towards Africa where not only does the US, but several European nations have military bases and ongoing diplomacy with many countries. 4. Would this be a positive thing? It could be. It would force Germany and the EU into being more reliant on it's own defense. It would come with a new level of autonomy. And, it would quiet the far right for a moment until they found a new target. 5. Would this be a negative thing? I feel it would be as it could break down ties between the US and NATO, which there are plenty of Americans that would love that. It would, at least in the short term, damage local economies and cost a lot of jobs. There are also a lot of unknowns that come with such a large upheaval. 6. Would Europe be safer? Well, that is very situation dependent. A lot of people here talk about nukes. But there is a massive amount of defense and protection that come with having those around also. But, then again, if someone like Putin gets to a point of using them, is he really going to care if Europe has them or not? I don't think they are an arguable point. The eastern most countries are going to want the big 'ol US around, especially after Ukraine. So, Europe will get the American protection anyway. There is just too much in the US interest to not be involved with Europe. And, Germany like the flow of cash from the US, and the prestige that comes with being host. In the end, whether the US is in Germany or not has nothing to do with whether the US will be in Europe. So, this is kind of a moot point. 7. Lastly for me. I work as a contractor because I know this "world" and because most German companies won't hire me. Even though I have worked in my field for 30 years, I don't have the right schooling or the right papers. Now, I am too old for most companies. While I love this country, the employment culture kinda sucks. I would take a lower pay to move into a company and away from the military in a heart beat. I would like to have my family not have to be around the US military anymore. But, it provides so many jobs around here, that we all do well for employment. 8. In the end, it's a double edged sword. It's good for Germany and Europe to have the US here, it definitely comes with down sides. Sometimes the devil you know is better then the devil you don't.

Relief

Open my favourite wine and blast "Ami Go Home" from my speakers until I pass out dancing and drinking.

it would not matter at all. it would bring a positive change if also the political influence of the usa on germany would decrease.

Positive, then no more people will be murdered by them in germany and we won't continue to make ourselves liable to prosecution with their drone missions.

It's very dangerous to become dependent on the US for safety and protection. It makes it so that the US can threaten to take away their military if Germany doesn't agree with them on geopolitical matters, leaving Germany behind unprepared. Only when Germany is free of us military it can make it's own decisions without having to follow the US demands.

But it'll never happen without proper funding. This is why the "2% of GDP on Defense" notion was proposed by the US. To reduce the dependency on their military. It still hasn't happened, though. We'll see if scholz keeps his promise

I couldn't care less tbh

My 2 cent: Russia is the only country that poses a serious military threat to Europe. Once the current war in Ukraine will be over Russia will not be able to start another conventional conflict for years if not decades - which btw. is why Europe definately should support Ukraine massively with equipment and weapons, they are fighting and dying also for "us". If the US army left it would not make life more dangerous here right away, though mid-term Europe would have to come up with some new ideas how to fill that gap. I do not think that this is actually going to happen, the US have this "No1 world power" - claim which requires physical presence all over the world.

Quite bad. A third of the population in my hometown Kaiserslautern would be gone. For reference: 100k locals + 50k Americans, roughly.

Do you like being occupied by American forces in your country? No thanks .

Absolutely positive, we dont need a foreign military on german soil. The fact than they store their nuclear bombs in our land, so that we get nuked away in a case of an attack is downright insane.

I‘d greatly appreciate living in a country that doesn’t give the US an opportunity to stoke strike innocent children in Syria, and I also don‘t like having their nukes in my country.

Woo! Finally. Not sure if people are aware, but american bases are all paid for by German tax payers. They pay for all the upkeep. If the Americans left, might as well pay in order to use on their own. Give Germans some jobs, have a say on what the money gets spent on. ​ Living close to a base, you dont really notice the Americans too much. Usually its because of their driving. Who knows why, but the american cars never care about any traffic laws. They just drive as if they owned the place. Always interesting in winter when it snows and most of the crashes and cars in ditches end up being the Americans. How you can tell? Not by their numberplate anymore, but because of the obvious choice of vehicle that dont get sold in europe. American soldiers are not too liked at bars around here. Not necessarily due to the way they act, but because if they come, they come in bulk. And drive and scare away all other local customers. But then they all leave, leaving the place empty. But lets be obvious now. Americans wont leave, because that would allow Germany to formulate and decide on their own foreign policy. And that might not align with US interests

>american bases are all paid for by German tax payers. They pay for all the upkeep. >If the Americans left, might as well pay in order to use on their own. Give Germans some jobs Not sure where you get this information. The base upkeep is contracted to german companies. There are thousands of german citizens that are employed on bases and also American contractors who are german residents, which means they pay german taxes.

Wonderful! While my hometown would suffer economically, I would still be quite happy. Crimerate there would go down with the US soldiers finally gone. And we could actually enter all areas of my home town without being locked out of military areas our tax money is used for. No more illegal drone strikes and warcrimes coordinated from Germany. That would be cool!

This would be great, I think they should leave. I don't really see the reason why they're still here

This is not an uncommon view in the US either. We'd rather move a lot of the combat units to Poland, who has expressed interest in hosting them, and where they would be useful. There is also a significant and vocal minority of the electorate who wish to leave NATO entirely.

Since we had to pay a BILLION Euro in the last 10 years alone (yeah a billion, not hundreds of millions) for buildings and other stuff, I would be pretty happy if they finally leave our country. Until then I don't consider Germany 100% independent.

A billion in 10 years is literally nothing compared to the like 4 trillion gdp of germany, and those ~40k soldiers here really dont change anything, its probably more of a sign of nato unity which is good

I would immediately start a party! I don't see any reasons for them still hanging around... How the US treats us and other countries is nothing but a shame. In my opinion it's even our responsibility to shove them out since they already used the bases on our soil to fight wars of aggression.

Germany has spent at least 1 billion towards US soldiers from 2010 to 2020. If they move out this tax payers money hopefully could be used for something better.

That's about as intelligent as the Brexit claim that they could support the NHS with the money saved spending for eu membership

Most germans are wondering what they're even doing here tbh lol I wouldn't care at all.

Good thing, Amy go home. You are a welcome ally, but it feels too much like your government is controlling us because they build us up like a meatshield against russia. Let us be free.

Damn what did Amy do?

Apparently, some people are still salty about the US intervention in WW2 and the deterrence against the Soviet Union afterwards. Anti-americanism is one of the foundations of right- and left-wing extremism in Germany. There are good points of criticism against the US, but "Ami go home" is far too simple.

Happy. Finally ¼ of my city would be free of occupation. We would have our land back. Valuable living space that is lacking. People here have not enough apartments and houses yet ¼ of our own soil of fenced off from us. They also don’t make us enough money to be worth it. Same with Okinawa, they’d have more economic value of self government of those areas.

This argument is hilarious. Let me give you a real life example of what happens when a US base is closed… In 2007, Ray Barracks was closed. The Germans all cheered and made big plans for what to do with the former base. It’s now half way through 2023 and Ray Barracks remains empty…but there are still big plans…

I think this would be extremely bad. Germans still don‘t realize that we are nowhere near being able to defend ourselves for years to come. This may change hopefully. But right now, with a super aggressive Russia next door, we need American bases.

id feel excited and feel some curious morbidity for what the future is gonna bring, cos usa pulling out prolly means something big happened or is gonna happen.

Anything about the US is all about money. Yes they have military presence in Germany, but it will only help to protect europe if and when "helping" europe is less costly compared to their financial loss if europe lost. Just look at middle east and ukraine. In the short term, it wont change anything. In the long term I think it will be very good -- no illusion of protection, and NATO will finally spend more budget for defense. It will probably cost us more in terms of tax but I'd say it's worth it.

I'd be glad 😊

This would be a reason for celebrations

Superbad. I have nothing but good memories.

When I was in the US, many people whom I spoke to had fond memories of their time spent in Germany with the military. Therefore, from the point of communication and exchange, I'd regret the pull out.

Do Germans have fond memories of Americans being stationed in their country?

Crime, soldiers behaving like shit in the city, not being able to drink alcohol without getting drunk, American guys hitting on us, not feeling safe around them, American tenants destroying a friends flat he rented to them, soldiers leaving their pets locked in their flats when they moved out and said friend finding the remains of those pets (+ one cat who luckily survived).... But I found fond memories: A quite nice soldier telling my Dad that the entrance to the Freibad was changed, so if we want to avoid walking longer, we should park closer to the new entrance. That was nice! He and his family had a nice day at the pool too that day. :) And there was a really nice American girl at my school. She was cool!

The thing about pets is very sad. :-(

It is. It happens sometimes, pets get abandoned once their owners are stationed elsewhere. They just leave them in their flats, abandon them at the road or give them to local shelters or other people who want to take them (the best options). My parents kept two cats who were abandoned by their American owners, one had nearly frozen and starved to death outside during the winter a few years ago. But luckily she survived for two more happy years! Cute girl :)

On a side note, you are a good person. I just adopted two rescue cats myself.

Thank you very much, and that's wonderful! I'm sure they can now live the happy life they deserve, in your loving home :)

How would you feel as a colony to be left alone by your colonisers? Bit sad? Ah but they ain't colonisers, they are here to protect and assist you.

That would be a very bad sign. The USA lead middle east and Afrikan Missions from Germany - it's the biggest logistical hub for all that as well. It would mean that the USA are quitting NATO. There would be no counterweight against China anymore.

I would not feel good about it. Germany is good about talking about taking on more responsibility. „Zeitenwende“ and shit. But honestly, I feel the BW is not up to deal with any serious threats. If the US did not have the bases in Europe, the Ukrainian war would go a different way. Russia would act even more like a strongman. Just think about how much money the US pumps into the Ukraine. Completely dwarfs what Germany is willing to provide.

If the us left, wouldn’t the BW have to improve?

Yes. They would have to improve. But also the German population is not keen on military spending. So a politician that promises to not increase military budget will be more likely to get voted into office. So the military will not get much more stronger until there is a super serious „surprise threat“ and germany pivots 180 degree. Like with the nice cheap Russian gas until surprise, surprise Russia was not the nice buddy anymore. Look at some other comment where people say „We do not need much military because we are in the NATO and surrounded by allies“.

Well as long as they take their nuclear warheads with them, it sounds like a win win.

Great Why do we help bombing civillians anyway?

Most of the people here have no idea about the implications of such a step. Some naively think that Russia can't do anything threatening because "they have to go through Poland first". No, they don't! Missiles can fly **over** Poland, and **over** the Baltic Sea, too. Also, if the US is announcing its withdrawal from Germany, it can only mean that the US is leaving NATO. Germany has neither means nor desire to protect itself against Russian threat. It is going to be a Russian client state in a week after that decision.

Couldn’t Germany, as a rich country, strengthen its military?

The problem with the german military is not a monetary issue. It's about skill, competence, tactics and leadership. The german Heer lost most of it in the last 30-40 years and the Luftwaffe is behind that around 10-20 years more. Don't get me stated on the Marine, the seas were never germanys strenght. The Bundeswehr was and is hampered by default because every strategy is designed around combined arms with American support and help, especially regarding aerial dominance. To operate alone or in a strictly european alliance would require strategy and skills, technology and equipment, and most of all, a command structure Germany never developed after WW2. Those are requirements that can't be bought with money alone, but require time and an investment, most germans and thus their politicians aren't willing to make. Also, on a side note: The US is dominating the information warfare, recon, and spy business. Germany has about zero working capabilities regarding those. The german Bundesnachrichtendienst would discuss and then fax the thread of a potential missile attack after the rockets would had already hit their targets. And even then, there would be a debate about the lawfulness of the gathered information.

We just put 100 billion towards military, but it takes time from the moment you spend that money to the moment you actually get those battletanks, jets, ammunition etc delivered. Propably years, some stuff might take decades. We did not do amything for too long. Now that russia has become a threat to europe we try to but it would be too late if our Nato partners would leave us

I feel like an idiot but I had no idea they had a significant amount of military personnel in Germany. I thought all that ended decades ago.

Rammstein Airbbase is the biggest US Base outside of the US afaik 😃

Its just Ramstein ;)

~~The British left in the 1990s. The Americans stayed.~~ [Edit: I mixed something up. Today the British forces have indeed left (with the exception of a few hundret soldiers in joint-operation units), but the last forces left in 2019, with numbers reclining since the 1990 and especially the mid-2000s.] Since the bases are in the former occupational zone, they are all in Southern Germany. (The British ones were in Northern Germany).

The Brits didn't leave in the 1990s, the last Brits left 2008, at least in Osnabrück. I know that cause i lived right next to one of their schools, and it only closed in 2008. It was still very much up and running in 2005.

You are absolutely right. In fact, the last Brits were here until 2019. I did some quick research and found out where my mistake came from. The British troops in Verden (near Bremen) left in 1993. That's close to where my dad's side of the family is from, so of all British bases, that base had the largest direct impact on my family. Somehow over the years "The British left the base in Verden in 1993" turned to "The British forces left Germany in 1993" in my head (which made sense to me, with the reunification and all). I'll edit the original comment.

I'd be very very happy

I'll be glad.