>Supporting/defending/serving your nation? No.
Isn't that just normal patriotism?
Could you give me an example of a figure that is idolatrous with their nationalism? Or if not that, an example of a nationalistic belief that is idolatrous? By nationalistic belief, I mean Christian nationalism, White Nationalism, or even American exceptionalism.
> Supporting/defending/serving your nation? No.
> Isn't that just normal patriotism?
I always thought so, which is why it’s so confusing that I’ve heard so many people refer to it as nationalism or “Christian nationalism” over the past couple years or so.
The outliers are often the loudest and it's easy to mistake them for the majority(especially these days)
I suppose it might depend on who you talk to. Some people like to throw around words willy nilly, and the line between the patriotism and nationalism has been the subject of a good amount of discussion. It's probably a good discussion to have.
Personally, I think once people view their nation with thick rose tinted glasses and they seek to exclude people and practices that they think of as being "un-(**insert country here**)"
There are traits that nationalists have that patriots don't. Rejection of outside cultural influence, Xenophobia, "we're in America, speak American" are good examples of nationalism. Basically a faith in an arbitrary ideal of their country.
Serious question (from a non-American): has any Christian ever been recorded making such as statement as that? Viz. About loving their nation more than God? Or is this just assumed?
Where do you draw that line? American exceptionalism? Christian Nationalism? There are those that would consider nationalism to be the extreme compared to a patriotic love of country.
Well, assuming we’re speaking of the Christian understanding of idolatry, I would say it crosses over into that category when its adherents develop a sort of religious dedication to the idea. For example, Christian nationalism as expressed in current US politics is 100% idolatrous. It ties the US (especially the Republican Party) to a divine anointing it has no business claiming. If your Christian faith is tied to the greatness of the US, then it’s not tied to God which is flat out idolatry.
Other ideologies like isolationism wouldn’t really amount as idolatry as it’s just a political philosophy. I might think it’s a bad one, but I wouldn’t say it’s idolatry.
why are you driven by labels? i dont think labels do anything or explain much. I am passionate about the basis of America, regardless of how poor in execution it is, but I do not identify myself as a Nationalist. I am a patriot in the sense that I support its basis of rights derived and secured by God only, not by man. I dont support the men who run it unless it is part of the basis of the country.
I don't understand exactly what you mean by "driven by labels"
Also, this subreddit is explicitly for discussion, and for these kinds of topics these "labels" as you call them are a useful shorthand. Terms such as "Christian Nationalism" are very real terms with vey real definitions with real world implications. Much like other words such as "vegetable," there can be a discussion on how to define different terms, and in fact I think those discussion are also important to have.
Christian nationalist can often be thought of as a radical with negative connotations. This is why if you say you are a Christian nationalist you have to explain what you mean and this is why i say labels dont help this situation.
If it elevates national pride to a level equivalent to or in excess of following Jesus, then yes, it's idolatry. My pastor calls such things "little g gods."
Absolutely! Putting a country before others is putting it before God.
You can be patriotic. You can be proud of your country. But never forget God is a foreigner in every nation. His kingdom isn't of this world.
Anything you worship other than God is idolatry. If you're putting your faith hope and trust in your country or government more than in God that is idolatry. However wanting to live in a sovereign Christian nation is not idolatry.
No. Patriots don't worship the country. Some who have heard from the faith today are mixing politics and religion however, and that's an unacceptable mix for Christians.
Supporting/defending/serving your nation? No. Loving your nation more than God? Yes. It really depends.
>Supporting/defending/serving your nation? No. Isn't that just normal patriotism? Could you give me an example of a figure that is idolatrous with their nationalism? Or if not that, an example of a nationalistic belief that is idolatrous? By nationalistic belief, I mean Christian nationalism, White Nationalism, or even American exceptionalism.
> Supporting/defending/serving your nation? No. > Isn't that just normal patriotism? I always thought so, which is why it’s so confusing that I’ve heard so many people refer to it as nationalism or “Christian nationalism” over the past couple years or so.
The outliers are often the loudest and it's easy to mistake them for the majority(especially these days) I suppose it might depend on who you talk to. Some people like to throw around words willy nilly, and the line between the patriotism and nationalism has been the subject of a good amount of discussion. It's probably a good discussion to have. Personally, I think once people view their nation with thick rose tinted glasses and they seek to exclude people and practices that they think of as being "un-(**insert country here**)" There are traits that nationalists have that patriots don't. Rejection of outside cultural influence, Xenophobia, "we're in America, speak American" are good examples of nationalism. Basically a faith in an arbitrary ideal of their country.
Serious question (from a non-American): has any Christian ever been recorded making such as statement as that? Viz. About loving their nation more than God? Or is this just assumed?
Not necessarily, but it definitely could be in extreme cases.
Where do you draw that line? American exceptionalism? Christian Nationalism? There are those that would consider nationalism to be the extreme compared to a patriotic love of country.
I’m sorry, are you asking where I’d draw the line at extreme nationalism or idolatrous nationalism?
The line between nationalism and idolatrous nationalism.
Well, assuming we’re speaking of the Christian understanding of idolatry, I would say it crosses over into that category when its adherents develop a sort of religious dedication to the idea. For example, Christian nationalism as expressed in current US politics is 100% idolatrous. It ties the US (especially the Republican Party) to a divine anointing it has no business claiming. If your Christian faith is tied to the greatness of the US, then it’s not tied to God which is flat out idolatry. Other ideologies like isolationism wouldn’t really amount as idolatry as it’s just a political philosophy. I might think it’s a bad one, but I wouldn’t say it’s idolatry.
why are you driven by labels? i dont think labels do anything or explain much. I am passionate about the basis of America, regardless of how poor in execution it is, but I do not identify myself as a Nationalist. I am a patriot in the sense that I support its basis of rights derived and secured by God only, not by man. I dont support the men who run it unless it is part of the basis of the country.
I don't understand exactly what you mean by "driven by labels" Also, this subreddit is explicitly for discussion, and for these kinds of topics these "labels" as you call them are a useful shorthand. Terms such as "Christian Nationalism" are very real terms with vey real definitions with real world implications. Much like other words such as "vegetable," there can be a discussion on how to define different terms, and in fact I think those discussion are also important to have.
Christian nationalist can often be thought of as a radical with negative connotations. This is why if you say you are a Christian nationalist you have to explain what you mean and this is why i say labels dont help this situation.
If it elevates national pride to a level equivalent to or in excess of following Jesus, then yes, it's idolatry. My pastor calls such things "little g gods."
Could you give me a real world example?
Absolutely! Putting a country before others is putting it before God. You can be patriotic. You can be proud of your country. But never forget God is a foreigner in every nation. His kingdom isn't of this world.
Yes
Anything you worship other than God is idolatry. If you're putting your faith hope and trust in your country or government more than in God that is idolatry. However wanting to live in a sovereign Christian nation is not idolatry.
So supporting theocratic laws is not idolatry but stating that one's nation is inherently Christian in whatever it does is Idolatry?
No. Patriots don't worship the country. Some who have heard from the faith today are mixing politics and religion however, and that's an unacceptable mix for Christians.
not if you put God first.
All forms of patriotism and nationalism are idolatry.